Chaz Warrington – better known to wrestling fans as Mosh, one half of former WWF tag team champions The Headbangers – will be appearing on Maryland Championship Wrestling’s Legends of Maryland Wrestling show tonight (7 p.m.) at The New Green Room in Dundalk.
I conducted a phone interview with Warrington on Friday.
I spoke recently with pro wrestling great Bruno Sammartino about legendary manager Capt. Lou Albano, who died last week at 76. Sammartino and Albano were portrayed as bitter rivals for years in the WWWF, but behind the scenes, Sammartino played an instrumental role in Albano making the transition from journeyman wrestler to top-level manager.
Continue reading "Bruno Sammartino’s thoughts on Capt. Lou Albano" »
I conducted a phone interview Thursday with TNA world champion A.J. Styles, who will defend the title against Sting in the main event of the Bound for Glory pay-per-view Sunday.
You’ve held the NWA world title several times in the past in TNA, but does being world champion this time feel different to you since TNA has a higher profile now?
Yeah. Just like you said, I’ve held the NWA-TNA title before, but it was NWA. Now, it’s TNA. We’re standing alone, and for me that means a lot more. It’s more prestigious to me and it’s an honor to hold the world title. I’ve been with TNA for seven years and I take a little bit more pride in our product than someone who may have been from somewhere else. So, yeah, it’s kind of a big deal for me to be the world champion.
Jim Ross has spent the majority of his time in WWE as the voice of Raw, but the WWE Hall of Famer and current Smackdown announcer also was the play-by-play man for the first episode of Smackdown in 1999.
Tonight on MyNetworkTV, WWE will broadcast a special episode of Smackdown that celebrates the show’s 10th year on the air. I spoke with Ross on Thursday to discuss the evolution of the show, his favorite Smackdown moment, his thoughts on leaving Raw, and John Cena’s well-documented comments about Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson -- who taped a segment for tonight’s show -- not loving the wrestling business.
I conducted a phone interview Thursday with Shane Douglas. The former WWE, WCW, ECW and TNA star discussed his battle with addiction, his involvement with the Ultimate Death Match movies, trying to get wrestlers into the Screen Actors Guild, and his thoughts on the current wrestling scene.
Douglas will be wrestling in the main event of tonight’s Adrenaline Championship Wrestling show at the Annapolis Boys and Girls Club against Maryland independent star Pat Brink.
I conducted a phone interview Wednesday with TNA president Dixie Carter, who discussed Kurt Angle’s arrest, Jeff Jarrett’s status with the company, TNA’s new deal with Spike TV and more.
Carter will make her first appearance on Impact on Thursday’s episode to make an announcement regarding TNA star Bobby Lashley.
I conducted a phone interview Thursday with WWE star Chris Jericho, who discussed his aborted partnership with Edge and subsequent pairing with The Big Show, working with Rey Mysterio, the need for Raw to build new talent, his thoughts on Raw having guest hosts and more.
Jericho and Big Show will defend the WWE Unified tag team title against Cryme Tyme at the SummerSlam pay-per-view on Sunday.
I conducted a phone interview Thursday with “The Blueprint” Matt Morgan, who will wrestle in his first pay-per-view main event this Sunday at TNA’s Hard Justice. In a TNA world title match, he will go against champion Kurt Angle and Sting in a three-way.
Do you feel any added pressure being in the main event Sunday?
When I first started when I was on Smackdown, we closed out Smackdown shows when I was part of the Team Lesnar entourage. Originally, we were supposed to be in the main event of Survivor Series that year [2003], but for whatever the reason, the powers that be switched things up, and the Raw match [Triple H versus Goldberg] ending up main-eventing instead of us. But going into it, we were supposed to main event that. That was some serious pressure. This being a singles-style match is different. This is directly on me. I can’t hide behind Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle and John Cena and all the other big names that were in that match when I was on Smackdown. This is directly on me, Sting and Kurt, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. This is my seventh year now in the business, and I’ve gotten the preparation for it. So to directly answer your question, I don’t feel pressure. I’ve been begging and dying for this for the last three to four years. Through opportunities with New Japan, I got to work a semi-main event at Tokyo Dome versus Yuii Nagata, and that match also helped get me ready. There were a lot of people there, and again, I couldn’t hide behind anybody else. It was just me versus that other guy. And that’s the pressure that you should want as a wrestler. If you don’t want it, no offense, but you really shouldn’t be doing this.
I conducted an interview recently with Maryland Championship Wrestling star and former WWE developmental talent Patrick Brink.
Brink, an Atholton graduate who grew up in Laurel, made a surprise run-in at last month’s MCW show four months after being released from his WWE deal. Brink, 28, makes his return to the ring against Cobian (wth Van Hammer as special guest referee) at tonight’s MCW event at The New Green Room in Dundalk.
In the following interview, Brink, who wrestled as Kaleb O’Neal during his six-month stay in WWE’s Florida Championship Wrestling territory, discusses WWE’s developmental program, the circumstances that led to his release, his return to MCW and what the future holds for him.
Legendary manager Jim Cornette will make an appearance at the Maryland Championship wrestling show Saturday at The New Green Room in Dundalk, where he will be signing copies of his book, The Midnight Express 25th Anniversary Scrapbook.
I conducted a phone interview with Cornette on Thursday.
How many indy shows are you doing these days?
This year I’ve done three – all with The Midnight Express. I toyed with the idea of retiring as a manager after our 25th anniversary, but as long as either me or Bobby Eaton or Dennis Condrey – Stan [Lane] has already decided that he’s not wrestling anymore – are all available on the same date and somebody wants us and we can all get to the ring and have fun, I’ve decided that I’m just going to do it a few times a year, because it’s great to see the boys. And why shouldn’t we? Maybe we’ll beat Bobo Brazil and The Sheik for the world’s longest program with The Rock and Roll Express. But other than the exception of managing The Midnight or something like this – because I’ve known [MCW owner Dan McDevitt] for ages and he’s always treated me good – I don’t really do them anymore because I’m not as agile, mobile and hostile as I used to be in my youth, as far as at ringside. I also did an NWA Charlotte show earlier this year, but really I just made an appearance to do some interviews there as sort of like the guest commissioner, which is more of my speed these days. I like to help some of these smaller independents that really put on good shows. But even then, with the TNA schedule I don’t have a lot of time for them, and I’d rather do less and enjoy it more.
I conducted a phone interview Wednesday with former WWE diva Torrie Wilson, who talked about her runner-up finish last week on the NBC reality show I’m a Celebrity … Get Me Out of Here, as well as her negative experience doing the divas battle royal at WrestleMania XXV last April.
So, what’s the first you did when you got back home after three weeks or so in the jungle in Costa Rica?
When I arrived at my house I had a very small party with my closest friends and family and I ate some vanilla cake.
I’m sure it tasted good to you.
Man it was delicious.
What was the toughest part about being in the jungle and what was the toughest challenge that you had to do?
I think the toughest part about being there was that some of the personalities were clashing, so it was difficult at times to get along with everybody. And, of course, the eating was really difficult. The hardest challenge – there was one where we stuck our head in something [a glass case filled with snakes]. I was really glad I didn’t get the tarantulas.
Spencer and Heidi Pratt and Janice Dickinson came off as incredibly annoying. What was it like being in the jungle with them?
Christopher Daniels returned to TNA last month and is performing under that name in the company for the first time since 2007. Of course, as Daniels mouthed on Impact in his first appearance back, he “never left.” Daniels will face X Division champion Suicide tonight on the Sacrifice pay-per-view.
I conducted a phone interview with Daniels earlier this week.
How does it feel wrestling again as a character that TNA fans haven’t seen in a while?
It’s awesome. I couldn’t have asked for a better way to come back, as far as being picked by Jeff to be part of Team Jarrett at Lockdown, and wrestling Kurt Angle in my first match back on Impact. That was a big deal to me, and I felt like, coming back and wrestling the match that I did, it proved to me and the wrestling fans that I’m still one of the best in the world. And that’s all I really wanted, was a chance to prove myself. And if I came in and I failed, then I would have no one to blame but myself. But I came in and I wrestled Kurt and I thought I had a really good match, and then I went on to Lockdown and our team won. I felt like, being back and wrestling at that level, I kind of reaffirmed my position in TNA. It was a high pressure situation for me, but I feel like one of the things I do well is respond to that pressure. They put me in that position – they gave me the ball and I felt like I ran with it. Now it’s just a matter of onward and upward for me.
I conducted a phone interview recently with Alex Shelley of The Motor City Machine Guns. Shelley and partner Chris Sabin will defend the IWGP junior heavyweight tag team title against LAX and No Limit in a three-way match at TNA’s Lockdown pay-per-view on Sunday.
You and Chris Sabin obviously have great chemistry in the ring whether you’re partners or opponents. Do you hang out away from the ring and travel together, and if so, does that help with that chemistry?
I think a big part of it is that we’re both about the same size and have the same strengths. And then wrestling each other, I think we got to understand each other’s styles. We had a lot of the same experiences, too, as far as training with Scott D’Amore and wrestling in Mexico and Japan. So you’re talking about two guys who basically match up perfectly with each other and have done the same things throughout their careers. And we’re also influenced by the same wrestlers, too, so we like the same style of wrestling. It just works out so much better that way because you’re talking about two minds that are on the exact same level and want to accomplish the same things and think about things the same way. But, yeah, we’re best friends in real life as well. Us and Petey Williams, we all live within about a 15-mile radius of each other outside Detroit, so we see each other quite a bit. And then we’re booked on the same shows all the time, too, so we’re always traveling together.
Who are some of those wrestlers that influenced you? I assume that you were a big fan growing up?
Yeah, I was a huge fan of wrestling growing up. Honestly, I think you can tell which guys were fans growing up and which weren’t by the way they wrestle and how they do things. Shawn Michaels I think was big influence for both of us. Bret Hart, Owen Hart. Jushin Liger. A lot of guys of that ilk. The first junior heavyweights, whether they competed as junior heavyweights or not in the United States or North America.
You and Chris and a number of the other X Division guys have some great TV matches, but you often get just two or three minutes for them. How frustrating is that?
The way I look at is a real fight can end in a minute or it can end in 25 minutes. I mean how many boxing matches have you seen that have gone 90 seconds? How many have you seen that have gone 10 rounds? From a creative standpoint, you just try to make the most with what you’re given. So if I’m given a piece of paper and I’m given three colors and I’m told to draw this landscape that has a multitude of colors, then I’m just going to do the best I can with what I have.
Sunday’s Lockdown pay-per-view consists of all cage matches. A cage match was always something special, but with a whole card of them, is it a challenge to make your match stand out from the rest?
It is and it isn’t. I think it depends on what kind of match you’re in. Luckily, we’re usually in the Escape Match, and this year we’ll be in the three-way dance, which is already a different kind of matchup as is. I think we have enough tag team combinations and we can do enough athletically that the cage is more just there if we need it, but we don’t necessarily have to rely on it, whereas there may some matches that are going to focus a lot more on it.
TNA has a nice mix of veterans and young talent on its roster. Do you take advantage of having those veterans at your disposal by seeking their advice?
Absolutely. It’s nice to have that mix, like you mentioned. The veterans I always go to are Sting, [Kevin] Nash – Nash has taught me the most out of all of them. Kurt Angle is someone who’s always willing to help out. And Jim Cornette helps out Sabin and me quite a bit, too, him being a tag team specialist and all. Those are the guys I always go to and I respect their opinion a lot. And they’re always very open-minded and give very constructive criticism as well.
What is the best piece of advice you have been given?
It’s tough to narrow it down, but I got to do a lot of interview work with Nash, and he basically told me that if you’re having fun doing your promos, then people can see that. And they can also see when something is forced, too, and when something is uncomfortable for somebody to do. So he said that you just have to find a way to make everything fun, and if you can do that, people can see that you’re enjoying yourself, thus they’re going to enjoy watching you.
You’ve had the opportunity to interact with Mick Foley on camera. What has that been like?
Actually, I feel really bad that I didn’t mention Mick Foley when you asked about which veterans we should go to for advice and what not. Mick’s definitely one of them as well and he’s helped us out a ton, even though he’s only been with the company about eight months or so. He’s been awesome to work with. He’s a legend, he’s made a ton of money and he appreciates every kind of wrestling that’s out there, whether it’s Mexican or Japanese or American. And it’s just nice to see that from someone who’s been on top. He’s been nothing but great to work with.
Can you describe what it was like to win the IWGP junior heavyweight tag team title in Japan?
It was a pretty special feeling. You’re talking about the junior heavyweight tag team titles in a company that’s the biggest in Japan right now, not to mention it was that biggest crowd I’ve personally performed in front of – around 40-45,000 in the Tokyo Dome. It was also our debut match for New Japan Pro Wrestling, who put a lot of faith in us by giving us that opportunity. Wrestling in Japan, whether it’s in front of 45,000 or 450 people, is always a pleasure. I really respect their style of wrestling and I’ve spent many, many weeks over there on tour before and I really enjoy myself when I’m over there.
If you could work with any tag team, past or present, who would it be?
Our very first tag team match together we worked a team called Skull and Bones, a team in Japan – Hidaka and Fujita. They quit teaming right after that. We beat them for the tag team titles in Zero-One. I would love to have a rematch with them. As far as classic tag teams go, I would love to work with Midnight Express – the Stan Lane and Bobby Eaton incarnation. I thought they were awesome. Jim Cornette actually gave us a Midnight Express packet of about a hundred matches of theirs about two years ago. We studied that rigorously for a while and just picked up as many tricks from them as we could.
When TNA first came about, a lot of people didn’t think it would last a year, but here it is seven years later and the company continues to grow. What has been the key to TNA’s success?
I think a lot of it has to do with luck, to be honest with you. All the right things have to fall into the right places at the right times for any of this stuff to happen. That said, there a lot of people in the office who work extremely hard and a lot of the wrestlers work extremely hard. You see guys take risks in TNA that you won’t see on any other product. And I hope the fans appreciate that. On top of that, it is an alternative product. Nobody is going to argue that we’re the biggest company in North America, because we’re not. However, we’re different. You buy a TNA pay-per-view, you’re going to see matches that you’re won’t see anywhere else, at least not in the States, that’s for sure. Having that alternative product, I think that’s something a lot of fans were looking forward to to fill the void from the companies that got bought up a few years back. I think seeing wrestlers from different companies in new ways is one of our attributes as well.
The Motor City Machine Guns have some interesting entrance music. What are your thoughts on it? Did you have a hand in selecting it?
Without saying anything negative, I can tell you that we had absolutely no hand in creating that music whatsoever. You can draw from this what you will, but there are no fingerprints of ours on that music whatsoever. That music was completely given to us.
Being from Detroit, it seems like there are a lot of things you could play off of with the music – maybe something resembling “Detroit, Rock City” or a Ted Nugent riff. If you could pick the music, what would it sound like?
Well you’re absolutely correct in the fact that Detroit has a super, super rich rock and roll history. If we could actually pick our music, and hopefully we’ll be able to do something like this, Chris Sabin, Petey Williams and myself have a band with two other guys – we’re called The High Crusade – and we would play our own music. We would go in the studio and figure out something. I think the best way to figure out what theme music would be best for yourself is to have something that comes out of your own brain
Who plays what in the band?
We have a guitarist and a drummer from another band called Idol and the Whip. Petey has played guitar since he was a kid – he’s been in bands for a long, long time. Sabin plays bass and I do vocals.
What are your plans for The High Crusade? Are you playing gigs? Recording?
We actually just had our first show [last week] in Detroit at a punk rock club. We just started practicing about six months ago. We’d like to do something with the music, but again, we just started practicing six months ago and we just had our first show. We made a really rough scratch demo in about two days and it’s up on our MySpace at www.myspace.com/thehighcrusade. If everybody could check out the band’s MySpace it would mean a lot to us.
Photo courtesy of tnawrestling.com
I recently conducted a phone interview with former WWE diva and Playboy cover girl Torrie Wilson to discuss her wrestling career and what she has been doing since retiring from the business due to a back injury. The interview was done prior to Wilson, a Houston resident, agreeing to participate in the 25-diva battle royal at WrestleMania XXV .
Can you talk about your back injury and why you decided to leave WWE?
It’s kind of a freak thing. I never thought it was a bad back injury. Every once in a while for the year leading up to when it started really getting bad, it would lock up on me and I’d be laying on my floor, on my bed, wherever, for 30 minutes at a time because I physically couldn’t even move. I was in tears. I just let it go, let it go, and it got to a point where, when I had matches I was really, really scared that it would lock up while I was wrestling and I wouldn’t be able to move in front of a crowd. The last straw was when I had a match, I think it was on Smackdown, and I actually went to Vince [McMahon] and Johnny Ace and said, “Look, I don’t think I can wrestle. My back’s been hurting me and I’m afraid it’s going to lock up and I’ll look like an idiot out there. And so they sent me home and I went to a specialist, who couldn’t find anything at first. And then I was going to a chiropractor for about nine months. I was getting epidural shots. You name it, I tried it. It got to the point where I couldn’t even bend over to pick my dogs up or tie my shoes. I ended up finally meeting this new surgeon who has this new surgery where they go through your side, and they realized that one of my discs was completely collapsed. So no matter what I was doing to try to ease the pain, nothing was going to help it unless I replaced the disc. So that’s eventually what I did in May. It was shortly after that where I was getting so tired of traveling. At that point I had already opened my clothing store. I knew I wasn’t going to be wrestling any more. There was no way I was going to risk hurting myself again knowing how it felt to be so crippled. I just sat back and really thought long and hard and said, “You know what, I don’t think I want to do this anymore.” And they completely understood. They were great about it.
How are you feeling now?
I don’t think the pain is ever going to go away completely. I think I was kidding myself thinking it was. I finally started running again, which is a huge passion of mine. So it’s a step for me.
When you first got into the business in WCW it was as a valet – they still had valets back then. I’m guessing that you never thought you would actually be a wrestler.
Never. When I first got into wrestling I hadn’t ever really watched wrestling. I didn’t have cable where I grew up [in Boise, Idaho] and I didn’t really know much about it. I was just kind of offered a job and I thought, “Heck, why not? I’ll try it. It sounds fun.” And it just really snowballed. Wrestling – physically wrestling – was the last thing on my mind. They sent Stacy [Keibler) and I and bunch of us down to the training facility in WCW and tortured us (laughs). I really got a sour taste in my mouth for it then. But when I joined WWE and I started doing it and learning probably the correct way of working, it became a little more fun. And then when I got to actually have matches in front of the crowd and they started getting into it, of course it was even more fun.
You talked about learning the ropes in WCW. So what was it like training under Madusa?
Oh my God. It was pathetic. When I think back now, I was just a young kid that was scared of everybody and never really spoke my mind. I just think, what nerve she had to be dropping us on our heads and making us miserable and not wanting to wrestle. Looking back, I feel for her. She was bitter. All these new young girls that had no clue about wrestling were coming into the business and taking her spot, but I just thought she went about it all the wrong way.
Was Fit Finlay the main person who worked with you in WWE?
He worked with me a lot. Eddie Guerrero also worked with me a lot when I was on Smackdown. Billy Kidman, my ex-husband, worked with me a lot. A lot of the cruiserweights were very helpful with the girls. Arn Anderson. But Fit Finlay was probably the main person. You know, it still took a while. For a long time I had no interest whatsoever in wrestling because of the bad experiences I had and how much it hurt in the past. Of course I really appreciate what these guys are doing all the time, but I don’t think I really got into it until I started actually having decent matches and being OK with what the crowd saw that night [laughs].
With your back issues, do you think you’ll ever get back in the ring again?
Today, while I’m sitting here driving in my car, there’s no way I would ever get in the ring again and take bumps. Do I want to go back to wrestling? No. But would I like to have another match? Yeah, of course I’d like to have another match. When I left I just kind of fizzled away. I didn’t have a goodbye match. I don’t even remember what my last match was. It would be a great experience. I do miss being out in front of that crowd a lot.
That was my next question, actually. Has it been a tough adjustment after being in the spotlight for years and hearing the roar of the crowd to step away from that world?
It’s funny, because I love to entertain, but I am actually a pretty shy person and I don’t like a lot of attention to begin with [laughs].
Now I know people will be surprised by that.
They would, because they see me on TV, but that’s a character. My own boyfriend always says, “I don’t understand how you got in a bikini in front of all those thousands of people.” I own a clothing store and I’m not a salesperson whatsoever. I don’t like coming up to strangers [laughs]. There are many things about it I miss. I love doing the photo shoots and I did love being in front of the crowd. That wasn’t me in front of that crowd – it was a character. Do I pine away and wish that I could have all that attention? No, not really.
Going back to the shy thing. When people hear that, I’m sure they’re thinking: “But you appeared in Playboy twice, so how can you be shy?” Was posing nude hard for you?
[Laughs] It was pretty hard for me. I’m not shy with my body. I work out extremely hard, and so I am proud of what I work for. Definitely being nude was quite an experience for me and it was not what I expected. I thought I would be a little more confident, but I wasn’t. What the fans don’t know is that I was the bikini contest girl and all that stuff, but there were many, many times that I would come backstage from doing those bikinis and just ball my eyes out because I felt so degraded.
You mentioned your clothing store. Tells me about the store and your clothing line.
I started my own clothing line called Jaded, and my store is also called Jaded. We have our own line of men’s and women’s T-shirts and sweat suits right now. We sell upscale, trendier men’s and women’s clothing that you would see on Melrose in L.A. We’re in Houston and doing really well. We actually just opened our second, larger location, and we’re working on two more locations here in the next two years. So I’m becoming quite the businesswoman.
Any other irons in the fire at this point?
Yeah, I’m still doing photo shoots here and there and I’m still going out to L.A. and having meetings and stuff like that, working on a couple of projects that I don’t want to jinx by talking about. I’m hoping to not disappear completely out of the entertainment industry.
You did a promotional thing with JBL for his energy drink not too long ago, correct?
Yeah, I did. It was a great time. He just called me out of nowhere and asked if I’d be interested. I actually love the energy shot. It has Advil in it, so it helps with your joints and easing the pain a little bit, as well as giving you a little boost. We shot a commercial and then we went and shot a bunch of photos for ads and different health and fitness magazines.
With WrestleMania taking place in Houston, will you be making an appearance?
I definitely will be there cheering everybody on. I have spoken to someone briefly about possibly doing something. It’s kind of all up in the air right now, but I would love to do something with them. I miss everybody.
Do you still watch wrestling?
I hadn’t watched for the longest time, and I just recently started watching here and there a little bit a few months ago. It was hard for me to watch for a long time. I felt like I was missing out on everything.
Do you still keep in touch with many of the people you worked with?
Gosh, now that Victoria quit [pauses]. Michelle McCool and Carlito I’m still really good friends with. And Chavo Guerrero. But really not very many. It seems like everybody’s disappearing.
I know some of your old WCW friends are working in TNA. Would you have any interest in doing anything with them?
No. Nothing against TNA, but WWE is where you would want to be in that industry. And, you know, I get anxiety going to visit my mom on a plane now because I was just traveling so much before [laughs]. So the thought of being gone even one day a week doesn’t sound like something I want to do.
So you’re not even taking any wrestling bookings at all these days – appearances at indy shows or autograph signings?
I’ve gotten a lot of phone calls and I’ve done a couple of autograph signings, but I’m really just taking a step back. Like I said, I’m just not really into that travel right now. And after watching the movie The Wrestler, I don’t think I’ll be doing any indy appearances any time soon [laughs].
Well I doubt they’d ask you to go in the ring and do a weapons match or anything.
[Laughs]. When I watched that it made me nostalgic for wrestling, but also just so sad because that is so many people I know.
You never had to go through the indy scene, you just kind of walked right into the business, as you said. Did you ever get any heat from people because they felt like you didn’t pay your dues and wrestle in high school gyms for $20?
Oh yes, of course [laughs]. I just think it’s so hilarious that people brag that they practically broke their necks for $20. I commend that people work their way up and you have to get experience and everything, but any one of the people who wanted to give me crap when I first joined WCW, I can’t say that they would have turned down the same opportunity, and they would have said, “No, I really want to go to Mexico for $20 a night.” [laughs]. I never did any indy appearances or anything like that, but we did do a couple fundraisers for the older wrestlers, so I did get a peek of that world.
How was it in the locker room coming over to WWE after having been in WCW? I remember talking to Stacy [Keibler] at the time and she said she got a chilly reception. Did you have the same experience?
Yes. But for me it wasn’t nearly as hard as when I got into WCW, because I didn’t know anybody and people were just awful. I had no clue what I was getting into at WCW. With WWE it was much easier because I had my friends. Stacy and I were inseparable, and I could rely on her to walk down the hall with and not have to worry about people being mean to me for walking down the hallway by myself. I think a lot of people felt their jobs were being threatened, so of course they’re not going to be extremely welcoming.
One of the first things you did in WWE was have some racy scenes with Vince McMahon. Was that uncomfortable?
Extremely. That was the first day I was actually on the show. The guy made me nervous anyway. I didn’t know him very well at all. He was very intimidating, and I had to make out with him in front of his wife. And his wife is telling me to grab him more and harder. It was just a very weird experience [laughs]. To top it all off, I didn’t have a chance to tell my husband at the time [Billy Kidman] everything that I had been doing that day, so he actually saw it all at the same time as everybody else.
Do you think that was an initiation of sorts?
I think so. I just think it’s very odd how Vince has had a bevy of girls make out with him when they first come in. I guess if you’re the boss ... [laughs].
I’m sure you probably get tired of answering questions about your dad, Al Wilson, but was it your idea to have your real dad play your dad in the story line?
Yeah, and I probably kicked myself a little bit for that later. Paul Heyman gave me the story line idea and he said, “We could use your real dad or get an actor.” I said, “No, let’s use my real dad. He did plays when he was younger.” And of course my dad loved the limelight. He just had no clue about the wrestling industry and was asking Vince McMahon for rides in his limo to the building and just doing various uncouth things. After a few months of that, I was just ready to boot his butt home [laughs].
So what did you think of his performance as a corpse?
[Laughs]. I just found it all very humorous. It was funny to see all the wrestlers get so mad that he was getting so much air time, but he was literally getting the highest-rated segments of the show.
Do you have any good road stories or ribs that either you were involved in or that you saw that you can tell on a family Web site?
I’m horrible at remembering great stories. I can say that I have some great memories traveling with WWE. It was somewhat like a circus but I got to see the world and I have some of the best friends. How many people get to travel four or five days a week with four of their closest friends on a constant road trip? The overseas trips were the best, and seeing some of the ribs that were played on some of the guys, I just can’t believe guys do that to each other, but I guess it’s a frat boy thing.
So did they pretty much leave you alone?
Yeah, they did leave me alone. You know, there were a couple girls who really believed their own hype. I used to travel with my dog Chloe, and she went to the bathroom one time in the locker room, and I was feeling extra frisky and mean, and there were two girls that I just did not like very much that were very mean to me, and let’s just say some of their stuff had dog poop on it [laughs].
What’s your favorite moment from your wrestling career?
As painful as it was, the best story line I had was the one involving my father. It was the one time during my whole career that I knew that every single week I went to work I was going to do something. I wasn’t going to sit in the back and wonder if I was going to have a match or a story line or a pre-tape segment. It was exciting to follow the whole story line and be a part of it. And I go so into it that during that time I truly did hate Dawn Marie. I was believing the story line and into it so much. That was probably the most fun time for me as far as working. Not the best matches, but story line [laughs].
Your dad must have loved working so closely with Dawn Marie?
Oh yes, he did, believe me. He still talks about it [laughs].
Do you have a Web site or anything that you want to tell people about?
The Web site for my store is called officiallyjaded.com. My MySpace is myspace.com/torries_space.
Handout photo
I conducted a phone interview recently with Edge, who defends his world heavyweight title against John Cena and The Big Show in a triple threat match Sunday at WrestleMania 25.
For a guy like you who grew up loving wrestling and was a fan in the audience at WrestleMania VI, what was it like to headline WrestleMania last year?
Oh, geez. I can’t say that I get nervous before matches, not to sound like a big tough guy or anything, but I’m more excited than nervous. So, I was really excited (laughs). I was over-excited, I think. I actually was so amped up that I lost feeling in my arms on my way down to the ring. I don’t know whether it was adrenalin or what. Basically, it was 30 years of buildup to that point for me – maybe not quite 30, but a while – and I just remember being in the ring, looking around and pyro’s going off, I’m wearing the heavyweight championship, and it was all very surreal. You always want that moment but you never necessarily know if that moment’s going to come. When it actually does, I lose feeling in my arms (laughs). You can see me shaking them out as I’m coming to the ring, because I’m thinking, “I can’t work a match here without feeling in my hands.” Thankfully, it came back.
Not only did you wrestle in the main event last year, but you did so against a legendary figure such as The Undertaker. Can you describe what that experience was like?
Amazing. He and I thankfully have very good chemistry together in the ring. I’ve always kind of likened it to Batman and The Joker or Green Goblin-Spiderman. It always just kind of worked, and I was always trying to think of different ways to counter his moves. And for him to counter my counter, and then me to counter his counter to my counter. It was really fun for me to try and figure out ways to do that. When I wrestle a big guy that can go, I think it ends up being my ideal opponent, although I consider a guy like Jeff Hardy an ideal opponent, too. I guess it’s just a matter of different styles and being able to click with a person. You never know if you’re going to or not until you get in there. That was our second singles match ever, at WrestleMania. We had one other singles match down in Chile, and with that I said, “I think we’ve got something here.” And from that point forward, I was really happy with everything we did. To be able to get in there with a guy like that and be happy with it, and to do it on the grandest stage, yeah, it’s pretty cool.
You have certainly had your share of WrestleMania moments. Besides losing feeling in your arms last year, what moment stands out for you?
(Laughs). I have a few. The first time that Christian and I won the tag team championship, standing on that table at WrestleMania 16 was the culmination of a lot of work that him and I put in together, so to do that together was really my first special moment at a WrestleMania. So there’s that one. Even though we were wrestling over a shampoo endorsement, waking out at SkyDome to wrestle at the same place that I sat there 12 years earlier, that was really special. Spearing Jeff in Houston – the super spear I think it’s now been deemed – that was crazy, because who knew if it was going to work? My main concern was Jeff. Once we hit I was a little dizzy, so I can imagine how he felt. Just the relief after that and watching it back. What was really cool for me and made it very rewarding is that it looked like the entire audience bounced. I watched it back and we were like, “Look, look, they just bounced up in the air with it.” (laughs) It shocked them. The big one – and I guess the stupidest one – was the spear [on Mick Foley] through the flaming table.
Who suggested that spot, and you have any trepidation about doing it?
Stupidly, it was my suggestion (laughs). There’s no way Mick would suggest me to go face-first through a flaming table. That was all me. I was just in a mode at that point where I really wanted to show everyone that I felt I deserved to be champ, so I was going to do whatever it took to do that. I think in hindsight that maybe my character needed to show that, “Yeah, OK, I can do the thumb tacks, the barbed wire and the flaming tables stuff, or I can be in there with Eddie Guerrero and try to go hold for hold – may not do it, but I’ll try. I didn’t really realize until after the fact that no one had ever [gone through a flaming table] without a shirt on (laughs), and nobody had gone through face first. I ended up with burns all over my arms, scorched all of my hair off. Looking back, I don’t know if I would do that one again. But at the time it felt like the right thing to do.
As far as taking big bumps, have you made a conscious effort to tone things down a bit and work smarter as you've gained experience and risen up the card?
Well, you definitely have to. I honestly think that’s part of the reason why I got higher on the card. That’s one of the things that I was told right from the beginning. I remember Steve Austin saying, “Yeah, you have to pick and choose. You have to be careful.” And I just thought I was indestructible. So that’s why at No Mercy you would have Edge and Christian against the Hardys just trying to break every boundary that hadn’t been broken yet. But looking back and feeling it when I wake up in the morning, I get it, I understand it. And I really started to understand it once I started garnering more of a reaction from the stuff that I’m doing now as opposed to trying to flip and fly everywhere. I don’t know when it clicked, but when it did, I went, “Huh, so this is how you do it.” (laughs) It’s giving the people time to react, and a lot of it has to do with story line and getting invested in your character and having more speaking time. But along with that, you have to adapt your style. It may be different at the top of the card in Japan, I don’t know, but where I work, if you do too much crazy stuff to where the people can’t keep up, you’re going to lose them. I think for me, Rey Mysterio is awesome because he has all these incredible high-flying moves, but he knows where and when to do them. And he’ll ugly it up with kicks and forearms in there – and I mean that in a good way. To me, it is kind of a dance, but it shouldn’t look like a dance. It’s supposed to look ugly and it’s supposed to look mean, and if you keep that in perspective and always remember to try and keep that part of in there, I think you’re going to be more successful. Plus, I’m kind of midway in size, and I’m not a high-flyer. I never was. I tried to be. I can catch a guy and take the moves, but for me trying to do them may not be the best idea, especially with all the injuries I’ve compiled over the years.
With your longtime friend Christian back in WWE, is it just a matter of time before your paths cross -- either as friends or foes?
I’m hoping they do. I think at some point they have to. I think the audience wants to see it. I always said it’d be cool whenever the day is that one of us or both us of retired to kind of do a little reunion tour before we did. Just because we grew up together and we have been best friends for 25 years, so it would just be a lot of fun to do. It’s been awesome having him back because we ride together again. And we’re just a couple of idiots, so it’s a lot of fun to travel and ride the roads with your best friend.
I want to ask you about another person who was a friend of yours -- Andrew Martin (Test), who died recently. I know that you guys came up around the same time and trained together. What are your thoughts on him, both personally and professionally?
I’ll always laugh – that’ll be my first thought – and think of his voice, and his cooking skills strangely pop into mind, too, because he would always cook for us. Me and Jay [Christian] and Andrew lived in a basement in Calgary for a little while, and he’d always cook. To me, he was always a little underrated as a talent. I always said if I could put my brain in Andrew’s body he’d be a 20-time world champ (laughs). With the right opponent, he could have a really good match. From a personal standpoint, as a friend that I’ve known for a long, long time, it was just very disappointing, disheartening. But what I try and dwell on are the good memories I have.
John Cena’s second movie, 12 Rounds, opens March 27. I spoke with the WWE world heavyweight champion over the phone last week about his acting career, and I slipped in a few wrestling questions, too.
Was acting in a movie easier for you the second time around after having done The Marine?
It was certainly easier, but I don’t think it had everything to do with the experience from The Marine. We really just had a very, very good crew. Mark Gordon’s production company – he produced Speed, Saving Private Ryan – really stepped in there with Fox to make sure this thing kind of knocked itself out of the park. And Renny Harlin was such a great asset as a director. He’s the guy, whether it had been my first movie or my hundredth movie, that made it very, very easy. He’s a great guy to be around that certainly has an agenda. I’m a beast who runs on schedule because we travel so many days a year, and he was just spot-on, man. He was overly ambitious and he really delivered.
For those who may not have seen the clips on TV, what is the basic plot?
The long and short of the movie is that I start off as a beat cop and I make the bust of my life by accident. I take down pretty much the world’s greatest bad guy. In the process, the girl that he loves gets run over by a truck, so he vows to get revenge on me. He breaks out of prison a year later as I’m finally finding some substance to my life and totally ruins it. He blows up my house, takes my wife to be and challenges me to 12 rounds of survival, the reason being that he is like a game theory addict. He really has a plan for everything, and that night that I arrested him, it wasn’t part of the plan and he never banked on that. So he wants in his mind to know if I’m lucky or actually good. If I survive the 12 rounds, then I was actually that good.
I know that you had an acting coach on the set with you when you did The Marine. Do you have one for this movie as well?
Absolutely. I tell people this is like having my second match, and by the time I had my second match I needed a lot of coaching. I had a coach in pre-production and I had a bunch of great coaches on set. Brian White is a fantastic actor. He plays my partner and my best friend in the movie, and I learned so very much from him. Steve Harris is another guy that I learned so much from, another fantastic actor. The whole cast met me with open arms to try to make the film as good as can be.
Do you do many of your own stunts?
Yeah. Man, I just got to learn to put the stunt guys in every once in a while. Getting beat up on the movie set is wearing on me. What we do [in WWE] is live as it happens. There’s no cut, take three or take four. I couldn’t imagine having to do a match over like eight times. It takes its toll on you when you know you have a stunt day and the whole day is going to be you getting beat up. You go home pretty sore that day.
Both of your movies have been action movies. Do you have any interest in doing something different, such as a comedy?
I do have that interest; I just think it’s not time yet. It’s very similar to our business. You have to establish identity with the audience before you can really spread your wings and open up. I certainly got that in me. I hopefully will have some small chances to showcase that, but I think as far as the silver screen stuff goes, I’m going to stick with the action at this time. I just don’t think two movies is enough.
Ted DiBiase Jr. is starring in the direct-to-DVD sequel to The Marine. Did you talk with him at all or give him any advice before he began filming?
I really think he has a lot of potential to be a success and another person to kind of transcend the wrestling business into the movie business. He’s a very hard worker, learns very, very quickly and understands exactly what this opportunity is. That’s the one thing I really tried to hit home with him. I said, “Listen, they’re choosing you for a reason. The Marine did extremely well on DVD, so when The Marine 2 comes out, just because of the franchise, the DVD will sell, so you’re already involved with something that will be successful. If you do a good job, that’s a great way for you to make a name for yourself on to bigger and better things.” So I think he totally understood that. I certainly didn’t give him much advice about acting because he went through the same kind of torture chamber I did – meeting with an acting coach all the time and really trying to do his best. I just really hit home about how great the opportunity was for him.
What you do in WWE is scripted, but you also do live TV, which means you have to think on your feet and ad-lib. Did you have the freedom to do any ad-libbing in the movie?
That’s the difference, and that’s been the biggest thing for me to adjust to, because I’m one of the biggest ad-libbers there is. I certainly don’t like planning anything, just because my audience is a live audience. You can’t really force-feed them. What I’ve learned is that what they enjoy most is when it’s unpredictable, so I just go out there and do my thing. You can’t really ad-lib a lot in a movie, because there is a story. It’s such a huge production involved. It’s not just one guy and another guy, or a tag team match with four guys. You have everybody, from people in production and lighting. If you move in the wrong direction, you’re in the wrong light, which messes up the shot. That’s a different challenge that separates movies from sports entertainment.
Did you get a chance to see The Wrestler, and if so, what are your thoughts?
I did. I thought Mickey Rourke’s performance was awesome. What a great depiction of a guy who made a couple bad decisions and just really can’t get any focus on anything else but the thing that he loves the most.
Since we’re on the subject of movies: About a year ago, there were quotes from you in The Sun (U.K.) in which you were critical of The Rock for not giving back to the business after he made it in Hollywood. Do you still feel that way? Did the two of you talk about the article in The Sun at all when he was at the Hall of Fame ceremony last year?
No. I don’t want to say that you misread it; I may have been misquoted. What I actually said, and I’ll stand true to it to this day, I don’t even care, is that here’s a guy who, when he was with the WWE, pounded his chest that he really loved the WWE, and that wasn’t the truth. The truth is that Dwayne Johnson is a great actor and I think always wanted to be an actor, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s like an athlete saying, “Hey, I don’t do drugs,” and then getting busted for drugs. It’s not the truth. I mean here’s a guy who said he was WWE through and through, and then the first chance to take a road to a different career path, he took it. There’s nothing wrong with that. Dwayne’s one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet. He’s one of the hardest workers you’ll ever meet, and he certainly is a great actor. The roadblock that I have, because I certainly am in love with this business and I don’t see myself leaving it any time, is when someone says that and then leaves, it cheapens our business. If he’s going to say that, then back your word. That’s the only beef that I have and that’s what I told the people at The U.K. Sun. It just cheapens that phrase: “Oh, I love this business.” So then next time I come up and say I love this business, well, the guy before me who said that left. That doesn’t look good for me or our business.
Randy Orton has been on an incredible roll as of late. I know that you and Randy came up together. Did the two of you ever sit around in Ohio Valley Wrestling and say, “One day, we’ll be headlining WrestleMania?”
No. As a matter of fact, when we were in OVW, we thought we wouldn’t make it out of Kentucky. I don’t want to say we were two lost souls, but we were surrounded by talent that was one of the greatest developmental units to ever be assembled. I think WWE started the developmental system in the mid ’90s, and that class of 2000 through ’02 I think is the most successful that has ever been. We were literally just two average guys among some very gifted performers, and never once did we think we’d be headlining WrestleMania.
What do you think about Orton’s performances recently?
I’ve said this before and I said this before his – what is this, his fifth or sixth “breakout?” – that he is the best guy we’ve got. He is certainly the best performer of my generation.
Here’s a question that comes up frequently: Will your character ever turn heel again? Would you be open to doing it?
Here’s the deal with my character: I’m in a really unique place. You’ve seen me get cheered, you’ve seen me get booed. Where I’m at right now, there is no good guy or bad guy. I can just be me, with certain little adjustments to my character, I guess, that makes me a “good guy” or a “bad guy.” The people who are going to decide that are the paying customers. When they get sick and tired of me, they’re going to turn on me. And when they turn on me, I’ve openly shown in situations where I get booed that I can turn on them back.
Credit: Baltimore Sun photo of John Cena by Kenneth K. Lam / Dec. 1, 2008
I caught up recently with “The Fallen Angel” Christopher Daniels, whose face hasn’t been seen on TNA Impact for over a year. In a phone interview, Daniels, who attended The Wrestler premiere in Los Angeles last month, discussed the movie, his career and his thoughts on former TNA star Curry Man (wink, wink).
What were your impressions of The Wrestler?
Well, first of all, the first 30 minutes of the movie I had a hard time enjoying because I kept going, “Hey, I’ve been there. Hey, I’ve wrestled that guy. Hey, I know that person.” I think one of the things that I read someone said hit home: “It could have been called anything,” in terms of The Wrestler, or The Baseball Player of The Football Player, just the idea of a guy trying to keep his career going and that universal idea of trying to get your previous glory. I think it kind of transcended wrestling as whole, just that idea of doing the one thing that you like to do and when you realize that it’s time to hang it up or it’s not what it was when you were a younger man. That to me was pretty profound, and just the fact that I’m a wrestler, those are things that I know I’m going to have to look at with the harsh light of reality in a few years. I look at that all time, especially at 38, and I see that the guys that I consider my peers and the guys that I wrestle with, nine times out of 10 they’re younger than me. And sometimes many years younger than me. So I’m always looking at it in terms of how long am I going to be able to perform at a certain level. I’ve had this discussion with my wife. I’ve thought about where I want to be when I’m done falling down for a living, as I like to call it. This movie definitely put it into perspective – a sort of exaggerated perspective – but it makes you think about it. And my wife was in tears at the end of it, literally, because she said that she could see parts of my life in that movie, some of the sad parts of it. Just the idea of putting so much into this career and wondering what’s going to happen at the end of it.
Do you think it was realistic portrayal for the most part of what life is like for a wrestler at that stage of his career?
I think it was slightly exaggerated. At the premiere I was talking to Dallas Page about it, and one of the first things I said to him was, “What veteran who theoretically had been at WrestleMania or main-evented – because that’s how they’re portraying Mickey Rourke’s character [Randy “The Ram” Robinson] – would blade himself in a small independent wrestling show? I don’t think that’s exactly how it would go in a locker room that I’ve ever been in.” And the first thing out of his mouth was “Terry Funk.” I said, “OK. When you put it in that perspective, yeah, I guess I could see that.” But there’s a scene that they do at CZW with Necro Butcher where there’s some pretty hardcore stuff that he does, and I’m thinking to myself, “I don’t know if even Terry Funk would do that at this point.” But maybe I’m wrong. And I think part of that lends itself to the idea of how much did [Robinson] love this business that he was willing to do this basically on his own accord. There’s not a scene where they go, “You have to do this” or “We want you to do this.” It was pretty strong. I read a couple things before I watched the movie that said some of the stuff he does was pretty graphic, and it’s pretty graphic, especially the scene with Necro. It’s CZW, so if you’re familiar with CZW at all, you know what I mean.
I’ve heard that Mickey Rourke did a lot of his own stunts in the movie, and also bladed himself for real.
I don’t know if the whole scene with Necro is like that; it’s hard to tell. I know the one scene that I questioned early on – where he cuts himself – I know that was him. I think Ernest Miller [who plays Robinson’s in-ring rival] was the one who told me that he knew that was Mickey’s idea.
What impact, positive or negative, will The Wrestler have on the industry?
I think it has the possibility to do both. There are parts of it that are very negative as far as wrestling goes in the sense of how it treats its wrestlers. It sort of looks at it in terms of like it’s a dead end. Even if you’ve had the success that Mickey Rourke’s character had, you could end up the way he did. A lot of that also has to do with the choices the character made, but you may not see that delineation as you’re watching the movie. Especially if you’re not familiar with the world of wrestling as a whole, you could think, “Oh, is this what happens to all the wrestlers who are successful, they end up working behind a deli?” The positive to me is that I felt a kinship to Mickey Rourke’s character in the sense that I really love this business and I’ve sacrificed a lot to get to where I’m at and I probably will sacrifice more in the future. I think it shows how hard it is on us, our desire to give the crowd what they want and make them feel they got their money’s worth. It doesn’t make it look easy. It showed that it’s hard on us, not just physically but also mentally, the things that we give up with our families. It’s not an easy thing to go out and do what we do for a living. It drains on you. I think you definitely get a sense of that, so that to me was a positive because it validates it to people who might not know how hard this is. It shows them that this isn’t a cartoon.
No matter what, it has to be better for the industry than Ready to Rumble, right?
(laughs) Yeah, I would have to say so. But almost as good as No Holds Barred.
I still think it’s pretty amazing that a movie about pro wrestling and a guy playing a wrestler are getting nominated for awards.
I think that has a lot to do with Darren Aronofsky and Mickey Rourke. You can tell first of all that when Darren put this together, he really had a respect for the business as a whole. At the premiere, and I know he’s also said this in print, he said that he didn’t set out to make a movie that sot of glorified pro wrestling or that glorified the guys at the top or who used to be at the top. But the spotlight has been shown on how hard it has been for these guys to be pro wrestlers. He’s mentioned guys like Roddy Piper and Greg Valentine in the press as far as what they thought of the movie and how it sort of mirrored their experiences in the past and where they are now. I think the work that Darren put into it and the work that Mickey put into it, that’s where all the buzz is. These guys put a lot of effort into the movie. Mickey Rourke does a fantastic job. I had a chance to go up to him and tell him just how much I appreciated his work and what I thought of the movie, and he came back to me and said, “Hey, the stuff that you do as a wrestler, I have nothing but respect for.” That was another little validation to know that this guy who is a world famous actor who probably will go on to get an Oscar for this appreciated the stuff that I’ve done, that we as an industry have done. He knows now that it’s not just fun and games.
Let’s move on to your career. We haven’t seen Christopher Daniels on television since the Feast or Fired thing in 2007. So what has Christopher Daniels been up to?
I’ve being doing some stuff overseas. I got the opportunity to go to New Japan a couple of times. In October I was over for a pro wrestling expo. I’m always happy when I get a chance to go over to Japan just because I feel like, if I can have good matches with the Japanese and show them that at this point in my career I’m still willing to go out there and put it on the line, I feel like it’s a positive step in my career. As far as the states, I didn’t do as much this past year as I wanted to do, but it gave me a chance to recuperate from some nagging injuries that I had and to just kind of watch wrestling from the edge of the bubble rather than being deep in the thick of it.
We all know that loser leaves stipulations and retirement stipulations never hold up, so is there any legal loophole that will allow “The Fallen Angel”` to return to TNA?
Well, I have been trying. It’s not like I walked away from TNA and haven’t called them back. I’ve been very adamant about trying to get back in. I don’t think there’s a legal thing that says I can’t be rehired, but I just haven’t yet. I guess it just goes to the point that so many people are trying to get into TNA these days, and I’m not sure of it’s going to happen for me or not. Fingers crossed.
After you left TNA, a masked wrestler from Japan showed up named Curry Man. Did you get a chance to see him? If so, what are your thoughts? Have you ever met him?
(laughs) I’ve talked with him briefly over the phone. I sort of helped get him in there. It was my recommendation. With the New Japan deal [with TNA] – I was still with New Japan before I got fired – they asked what guys would be good to bring over, and I told them Curry Man would be a good guy. I didn’t realize he was going to stay over as long as he did, though. I was hoping that I’d be able to meet him when I finally came back to TNA, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen now. I’ll have to meet him when I go to Japan again.
We will ever see the two of you as a tag team?
Well, you never say never. I wouldn’t mind tagging with him. I don’t know if I could dance that good, though. He might have to do all the funny moves and I’ll have to wrestle.
You’ve been with TNA pretty much since the beginning. Did you believe back in the early days in 2002 that the company would even be around in 2009, much less a solid No. 2 company?
I never thought that we were in danger of closing. For all the scuttlebutt in the first two or three years about TNA closing up shop, I never believed that. And that had nothing to do with my belief in the talent or my belief in the people behind the scenes. I just never felt like when I was there wrestling that the hammer could drop and I’d be out of a job again. As far as the level of success, any step that TNA took, it always felt like it was a small step, but it was a small step forward. I always felt like the smart thing that TNA did was that they never let their reach exceed their grasp, so to speak. They never tried to take on too much at one time. For as long as people were saying, “Oh, they need to be on a prime-time network, they need to be a two-hour show,” it seems like it took forever for us to finally get to that position, but in all honesty, we took that step when we felt we were ready for it. I don’t know exactly what went on behind the scenes, but the truth is that Spike came along at a good time for us, changing nights from Saturday to Thursday came at a good time, going from one hour to two hours came at a good time. It’s been a progression rather than a regression. As long as we keep doing that slow but steady build rather than trying to take a huge jump forward and maybe stumble, I think it’s to TNA’s benefit.
When you were in WCW in the dying days, I remember some vignettes with you wearing a hooded robe and talking to Vampiro, but it was dropped pretty quickly. Where was that thing headed?
They told me a couple different things. All I knew for certain was that it was supposed to be a play on the relationship between Darth Vader and The Emperor from the Star Wars movies. The idea was that I was going to be The Emperor to Vampiro’s Darth Vader. I don’t know exactly why it fell apart. I did what they wanted me to do. And then the next time I showed up, they said we weren’t doing it. So somebody didn’t like it or it didn’t come across the way they had planned. You can only do what they ask you to do. I don’t know what else to say about that one. I wish it had gotten a little bit more time to it. There were a couple of other ideas that I had heard that were sort of played off of it which never came to fruition.
You really had some bad luck in WCW with injuries and timing, didn’t you?
I was actually under contract twice with WCW. The first time was the thing with Vampiro. I was actually hired right before Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff came back. Kevin Sullivan had hired me at the beginning of 2000. I was doing my last tour of Japan when I found out that Kevin Sullivan had been fired and they were going to bring back Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff. So the night that they did the [the first show under Russo and Bischoff] in Denver was supposed to be my first night under Kevin Sullivan. But Vince didn’t know me at that point and Eric Bischoff didn’t know me at that point. It kind of got put on the back burner. And then when I finally came in they had the idea to do the thing with Vampiro. The second time, a year later, right after Sid broke his leg on television, they did the angle where me and Mike Modest were wrestling and they had Scott Steiner come in and “break our legs,” with the idea that he had broken Sid’s leg and that was going to be something that he went with. But I got injured [for real] in that match. I landed on my head – one of my favorite memories ever, and people still remember it to this day, which is awesome – and lost feeling in my arm for like six weeks. As I was recovering from that, WWE bought WCW and that was the end.
Ultimately, things worked out for you, though.
Yeah. The positives to my WCW career, despite the fact that I never actually got in the ring more than twice, is that I met some good friends and I met some people that helped me get to where I’m at today. Bob Ryder and Jeremy Borash are two people that have been very influential in the things that I have done with TNA. Those guys were there and put in good words for me. So if it wasn’t for WCW, I wouldn’t be here today.
Earlier you talked about how you have given thought to how many more years you can wrestle and what you’re going to do when you do hang it up. Do you have a time frame? And do you think you’d stay in the business, perhaps as a producer, or would you look to do something outside of wrestling?
I actually do want to stick around in wrestling in some way, shape or form. If I had my choice, I would like to get into the commentating side of it. I’ve done some stuff in the past with TNA and I feel like I could contribute to the product in that way. If I couldn’t do something on air, I’ve talked in the past about doing stuff behind the scenes as far as producing or what not. I do feel as if I have something to contribute to wrestling when I’m done falling down for a living, like I said. What I get a chance to do is still up in the air. I don’t have a timetable as far as like, “Oh, I’m going to retire in ‘X’ amount of years.” I’ve always said as long as it’s still fun I’m going to keep doing it. I’ve been extremely lucky in terms on injury. Very few injuries over the course of, this is the beginning of my 16th year. I know a lot of guys that have had a lot shorter careers and a lot more injuries, so I knock on wood every day. As long as I can keep doing it at a certain level, have fun and be safe and healthy, I’m going to keep doing it. When the day comes when I can’t do that, then I’ve got avenues that I can explore.
Photo 1: Ernest Miller (left), Christopher Daniels (center) and Diamond Dallas Page at The Wrestler premiere in Los Angeles last month.
Photo 2: Mickey Rourke (left) and Christopher Daniels at the premiere.
Photos courtesy of Marc Kruskol/MJK Public Relations
I conducted a phone interview yesterday with Rey Mysterio, who will be one of 30 participants competing in the Royal Rumble match at Sunday’s WWE pay-per-view.
You’ve had some serious injuries in recent years, including multiple surgeries to repair your knee and biceps. How are you holding up physically at this point?
I feel like I need a tuneup (laughs). Before I had my biceps surgery, it was my knee. I would wake up limping every morning. Now, I wake up stiff from my right arm. If it’s not one thing it’s the other, but we’re still here pushing strong, man.
I know that you got into the business when you were about 14 or 15, so you're probably used to being one of the younger guys in the locker room. But now you’re one of the veterans. Do you see yourself as a mentor or teacher?
Yeah, and not so much because I want to establish it, but because the locker room gives me the opportunity to lead by example, to be a role model if you will. The new guys coming in, the up-and-coming superstars, stop me for a second and ask me certain things, so that’s when it kicks in and I realize, OK, I have been around for almost 20 years now, so it’s time to give advice and help out with the younger stars.
Guys such as yourself, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero were stealing the show on the undercard in WCW during a time when it looked like guys your size and style would never make it to the very top. Did you think it would ever be possible to achieve what all of you have?
I think in the back of our minds we knew there was an opportunity for us waiting, we just didn’t know where it was at or when it was going to happen. I think when Jericho made that first move and jumped over to WWE, he opened up the door for all of us, man. And right behind came Eddie and Dean Malenko, and then after that, they pretty much opened up the door for myself.
With the Royal Rumble coming up Sunday, I wanted to ask you about the one that you won in 2006. You were in the midst of the biggest push of your career – winning the Rumble and then going on to win the world title at WresteMania. But your close friend Eddie Guerrero had just died a couple months prior to the Rumble. What was it like from an emotional standpoint to be getting the big push at the same time you were mourning for Eddie, who, in the story line, was your inspiration?
It was a lot to carry, man. Eddie passed away in November, and the Rumble was in January. We had just finished up with a big bang with that whole story line with my son and my wife and Vickie, so it was very emotional. We had not gotten over the fact that Eddie had just left us. And then we had the story line of every time that I wrestled it would be for Eddie. That kind of gave me an inner strength and helped me push through on a daily basis every time I stepped into the ring. In addition to the fact that Eddie had left us, there was a big spot that he left for me to handle and take care of, which was the whole Latin community. There were only two Latin representatives at the time – Eddie and myself – and he left that spot sitting there. It was like he said, “Rey, you’ve got to take this and run with it.” So, there were so many things that I had to think of and process and cherish. It hurt a lot, but at the same time, I pushed through it and I believe Eddie was there every step of the way.
You mentioned Vickie. I know that you have known her for years. Are you surprised at how well she is pulling off her role on Smackdown?
Incredibly surprised. This is a Vickie that was very, very hidden deep down inside of her. Then again, I should say I’m not surprised because of the man she was married to. She’s done an incredible job.
You’ve had some good matches against Evan Bourne and also with him as a partner. What are your impressions of him?
He’s a great competitor. As far as an up-and-coming superstar, he’s definitely got it. I think he’s in the same boat as when I was trying out for WCW. There are guys that tell you, “You’ve got to take it easy, man. You can’t be doing all that crazy stuff. Pick out your high-flying moves; don’t do all of them at once.” And back then I would go, “Yeah, sure, thank you.” But then I’d turn around and say, “Hell no. I’m going to do everything I can. That’s the way I wrestle; that’s the way I do it.” Well, now I’ve learned my lesson. After five knee surgeries and three biceps surgeries, I’m like, “Man, I should have listened to them.” But when you’re hungry and you want to be successful and you were raised a certain way, it doesn’t matter who tells you to slow down. Sometimes you just have to learn the hard way, and that’s by getting injured. Evan Bourne is just like me. Hopefully, he can pick out his offensive moves, because he’s got so many and he’s so incredible to watch. I just hope he takes the advice of all of us who have been around a little bit longer and he can tone it down. That way he can last a lot longer.
You’ve worked against some big guys lately, such as Mike Knox, JBL and Kane, and they matches have all been believable and entertaining despite the size difference. Talk about the difference in your approach when you’re wrestling a big man such as Knox as opposed to a cruiserweight like Bourne.
With an Evan Bourne, you know it’s going to be a buildup match with somewhat nonstop action. With a bigger guy, it’s hard to keep that nonstop action going. It’s more chop, chop, chop the tree down – see how many times it’s going to take you to hit that tree for it to come down. That’s the type of psychology I go in there with. I have to work from the legs all the way up and kind of build my way up to the top of the head. There a lot of opportunities for myself to do high-flying maneuvers also, because there’s such a bigger target for me to take down. In a way it’s easy, but then again it’s hard.
Have you ever had an experience when a bigger guy didn’t want to sell for you?
No, I believe I haven’t. I’ve never had any prima donna attitude against me. It’s always been very respectful.
What are your thoughts on Sunday’s Royal Rumble?
I’m definitely looking forward to the Rumble match. I wasn’t in it the past two years. I won in 2006. In 2007, I was injured, and in 2008 I wrestled Edge. I’m very much looking forward to being in there again. Besides that, we have the John Cena versus JBL match, and I think that’s going to be a very interesting match. I want to see what’s going to happen with Shawn Michaels, if he’s being asked to interfere during that match or not. I want to see what he would do. And we also have Jeff Hardy wrestling Edge on the card.
With nearly 20 years in the business now and the injuries having piled up, have you given any thought to how many more years you want to wrestle and life after wrestling?
That is a really good question. I definitely don’t want to continue wrestling if I don’t have to. I don’t want to be the kind of wrestler that has to do it because he needs the money. I’m at the point right now that I’m doing it because I still enjoy it. But I don’t know, maybe in a year from now my passion might be gone, and I might lean more toward my family. I really can’t make a prediction right now, but what I can tell you is that I still have a lot of passion for this business. I always said when I was younger that I want to wrestle until I’m 40 or even in the 50s as long as I can still keep doing the same style of wrestling that I do. I wish I could predict if I could still go at the age of 40. I do feel beat up. I do have a lot of injuries that I’m carrying with me every time I step into the ring, but I think only God can judge at this point.
Mr. Kennedy is the most recent WWE star to branch out into acting. He has a featured role in Behind Enemy Lines: Colombia, a direct-to-DVD movie that was released last week.
I conducted a phone interview with Kennedy last Friday to discuss the movie and his wrestling career.
Did your experience performing in WWE help you prepare for acting in a film?
Yeah, I think what we do in the ring isn’t a whole lot different from acting. We are an entertainment company. What I do in the ring is entertainment; it’s not an actual competition between two guys. We’re kind of improv actors I’d say. It was kind of a natural transition for me to go over into this movie. And it was an action film, so it really translated.
Did you do anything specifically to prepare for this role? And did you get any advice from guys like John Cena, Steve Austin and Kane, who have all starred in films?
Actually, I did talk to those guys just to find out what to expect. Just minor stuff like: Do I need to memorize the whole script? Things like that. As far as studying up, I read a pile of books on Navy SEALs. I went to the local Borders in my hometown and I bought up every Navy SEAL book that I could find. I read Lone Survivor, which is an excellent book by the way. Also, when I got down to Puerto Rico, Joe Manganiello, who plays the lead in the movie, actually had rented from Netflix a DVD about Navy SEALs that I think the Discovery Channel put out. ... Joe did a lot of research, too, so he was able to answer a lot of questions. We had a military technical adviser on the set who was able to help us with any questions. We also had a Navy SEAL come down who was one of Joe’s buddies.
You served in the Army, correct?
Yeah, I was in the Army Reserve for six years. That also helped out in a way because a lot of things in the military — there’s kind of like a universal language there.
I’m sure most people have seen clips from the movie on TV, but if you could tell people in a couple sentences why they should buy the DVD, what would you say?
It’s just a fun action movie — nothing more, nothing less. The first 10 minutes there’s a little character building, establishing the story line. Then after that it’s pretty much [all action].I think it’s pretty exciting. It’s got a nice little story line. There are some parts where you really think we’re not going to make it out. I like movies like Rambo and Commando and things like that, and I think this is kind of along those lines.
A good popcorn flick as they say, right?
Yeah. It’s not going to win Oscars. It’s not going to be Picture of the Year or anything like that, but it’s a fun movie if you’re in that type of mood.
This is technically not your first movie. What can you tell me about the independent movie Fighting the Still Life?
There was actually an independent wrestler named Sick Nick Mondo who wrestled for CZW and put that movie together. He went to film school in Minneapolis and that was his senior project. He knew that I was interested in that stuff. And from watching me perform on the independents, he thought that I had some skills and thought that I would be good in it, so he cast me as the villain in the movie. We filmed that in Minneapolis. We actually finished filming right before I signed my contract with WWE.
Is the movie out anywhere?
He had made another DVD about his life story and he got that one distributed. I know that he was looking to get it distributed through the same company, but I think things fell through.
Are you interested in doing more acting?
Yeah, I definitely am interested in acting and pursuing it a little more. I’m not ready to give up wrestling by any stretch of the imagination. I think that there are a lot of things I have left to do in the business that I haven’t accomplished yet, goals that I set forth from Day One. But acting is something that I’ve always wanted to do since I was a little kid, so this was kind of a dream come true.
You’ve had your share of injuries, the most recent being a dislocated shoulder. How are you doing physically and when will you be back in the ring?
I’m feeling pretty good. I’ve got almost full range of motion in my shoulder and it’s no longer painful to lift my arm over my head. It’s a little hard to get into the gym being on the road so much. The free time that I do get, I’m usually pretty tired, so it’s hard to be motivated. And I haven’t been able to spend too much time in a personal training studio to do the rehab. However, most of the stuff I can do on my own, and that’s what I’ve done. I do it in my hotel room every day — I do my stretches and my strengthening exercises for my rotator cuff, and I do get to the gym as much as I can. We’re looking at Feb. 28 as of right now to go back and see Dr. [James] Andrews, and hopefully he’ll give me the OK.
So it’s possible you could be back in time for WrestleMania [April 5]?
I’m crossing my fingers.
How frustrating has it been for you with all the injuries? It seemed like every time you were getting a nice push, an injury would occur.
It’s been extremely frustrating. I think you just have to keep your head up, though. What we do is not ballet and I’m not the only guy who has ever gotten injured in the wrestling business. It’s inevitable. You’re going to get hurt at some point or another. One of the injuries was just a blatant act of stupidity on my opponent’s part — that was my first injury. There are certain things that you just can’t do anything about. You know, I’ve heard all the “Oh, Kennedy’s injury prone” and all that stuff, but there are certain things that happen, and if you knew the whole story you wouldn’t necessarily think that. I’ve just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. But it is frustrating. I had the Money in the Bank and was on the way to becoming a world champion and then injury struck. And it’s just been one thing after the other, but I just keep my head up. I was told a long time ago that if you have talent you cannot be denied and eventually good things will happen.
You mentioned the first injury being your opponent’s fault. What happened?
I tore my lat. It was actually a 10-man tag. I was standing on the apron and the guy was supposed to come over and just give me a little forearm and I was just going to fall to the floor. Now, I’m standing on the apron, mind you, which is about two and a half feet off the floor, and he dropkicked me. He literally put his legs on my chest and leg-pressed me off the apron. I remember flying backward through the air. I felt like I was in The Matrix; I felt like I was in slow motion. I remember thinking to myself that I was going to hit my head on the guardrail because I knew I was going that far. As I turned to protect my head, my arm was kind of stretched out and I landed on my side. He hit me so hard that I flew past the mat on the side of the ring and hit the concrete and just tore my lat right off the bone.
Who was the guy who dropkicked you, or would you rather not say?
I’d rather not say. I don’t think it was an intentional thing. It was just a stupid decision. But, hey, things happen.
One of the things that helped you get over right off the bat was your ability to cut a good promo. How much of your gift of gab comes naturally, and how much have you had to work on developing your style on the mic?
I think it’s both. I think naturally I’ve always been gifted in that area. I’ve always entertained people. That’s been my deal since I was a little kid. Whether it was doing impersonations of people in my school, which is something that I was known for in high school, or getting the neighborhood kids together and putting on little plays or making little movies and stuff like that, it was just always something that I was interested in. As I got into the wrestling business, practice makes perfect. I was given a lot of opportunities to do promos. One of the first places that I worked for on the indies had a TV show and we would do promos every week, so I got introduced to the art of the promo right off the bat. I was able to watch myself and critique myself and listen to what other people thought.
Do you have a preference as far as working as a babyface or a heel?
It’s always easier to be a heel, I think. I love working babyface if it’s done right. I would say so far in the WWE I’ve definitely had more success and had more fun as a heel. I think it’s easier to get people to hate you. I talked to Vince McMahon when I first got into the company. He asked me if I preferred to be a babyface or a heel, and I said, “Well, it’s hard for a guy, no matter how good you are, to come into a company like the WWE and expect the fans to like you right off the bat.” Generally, there like, “Who’s this new guy? We hate you, no matter what.” [laughs] So I said, “I’d rather come in as a heel and get people to know who I am and win their respect in that way, and then it’s easier to turn babyface.”
If you could pick anyone, past or present, to work with that you haven’t already, who would it be?
I would love to get in the ring with Triple H. We’ve done it on a couple house shows, and we’ve had a couple tag matches together on TV, but not a whole lot of contact. He is the man right now and I’d really like to get in there with him.
Photo courtesy of wwe.com
First, Chris Jericho wanted to “save us,” and then his mantra became “save me.” Now, he is playing a role in helping 11 female singers who are seeking redemption.
Jericho is the host of Fuse TV’s Redemption Song, a reality competition show in which down-on-their-luck singers with troubled pasts vie for their last chance at musical stardom. The show debuts tonight at 11.
I spoke with Jericho on the phone today about the show and, of course, his wrestling career.
What was it about Redemption Song that made you want to get involved with it?
I like the fact that it has a heart behind it. There are so many rowdy shows, and what makes one different than the next? So many of them are sensationalistic, and there are a lot of girls making out with girls, and people going crazy and bad girls. The thing about this show is, there is that element of it, but the fact is that there is a really big prize at stake. The winner gets a contract with Geffen Records, and all these girls can really sing, so it’s not just a train wreck of a bunch of chicks who just want to get on TV. It’s not Jericho of Love where the prize is a date with me.
The prize is actually to become a star in the music industry, and these girls have the chops to do that. But they just have these checkered pasts, these troubled lives that they’ve led – not really getting a lot of breaks, making bad decisions, making choices that they shouldn’t have. And now this gives them a shot at redemption. So it is very sensationalistic … but it gives them a chance to change their lives around and make something out of themselves before they just end up going down the wrong road completely. I thought it was such an interesting twist from what we usually see on a lot of these shows.
The press release about the show says the contestants have “troubled pasts filled with bad attitudes, emotional ups and downs and hard-partying.” Sounds a lot like the WCW locker room from the late 1990s.
(Laughs). Exactly. I could have been involved in Redemption Song had it been 10 years ago.
What is your role on the show? I know that you are the host, but are you kind of stirring the pot, as well?
I was a jack of all trades. I was the host of the show, so I piece everything together; I do all the inserts and let them know what’s going on and what they have to do. On each show there is a challenge, something they have to accomplish, whether it’s something vocally or with their image or with physical fitness – everything that goes into making it in the music industry and show business. So sometimes I was a drill sergeant if need be, kind of very stern and strict. Other times I’d be kind of a mentor giving out advice. Other times I’d be more of a shoulder to cry on if they needed that. But it got to the point where they got really scared of me. I was like the Angel of Death whenever they saw me because they knew something was going to go down.
I remember one time in particular, they were all loaded and they were fighting and throwing food at each other. There was a big argument going on and they sent me in the kitchen where they were, and as soon as I got there, there was an audible like, “Oh, no, Chris is here.” It was kind of like the principal walked in the room. So it was interesting to have that role. Seeing the show now that it’s been all cut and edited, there’s so much stuff that I never saw, that I wasn’t privy to, because I was just there when something needed to be done or someone was being eliminated. I never saw what these girls were really, really like. I saw the front that they gave me and had suspicions of what they might be like, but now actually seeing all the behind the scenes stuff is very interesting for me as well, because I became the authority figure in the house, which was kind of fun.
So you had to cut promos on them?
Oh, yeah, a couple times, especially near the beginning when the girls had a lot of attitude. I had to let them know very specifically at the beginning that this is my show and you will do what I tell you, and they figured that out pretty quickly.
How were the girls eliminated? Was it by judges?
Yeah, but not like a panel of judges. It wasn’t like an American Idol-type thing. It was different judges, different Geffen executives, different video producers, different heads of the company. There was a vocal coach, someone who had worked with them from the start, who had a lot of input on the judging, as well. There was not really any kind of a cliched nice Paul Abdul, middle-of-the-road Randy and a mean Simon. And I wasn’t one of the judges. I was just the mouthpiece and the host that connected everything together.
With reality shows, a lot of the conflict comes across to me as contrived. Was that the case at all with this show?
No, this was real. This was something where you didn’t have to contrive anything, because these girls were all a little bit crazy. They all had a lot of attitude and a chip on their shoulders. Some of them had chances in the past to make it and failed. Others had no idea how they could make it; they just knew they had talent, but they made bad decisions. You had all different types of chicks – strippers and madams, piercings and tattoos, and fighting and throwing other chicks through windows. All this type of crazy stuff that they stay away from on your typical Idol-type thing. And like I said, there wasn’t just a date at stake – “if you win you get to go out with Bret Michaels for two weeks before he dumps you.”
This was much bigger than that. The fact that you’re dealing with the biggest record company on the planet, and this is what’s at stake – you could be signed to Geffen. You know, I would enter this contest for a chance to get signed at Geffen. This is a real dogfight, and you can see that throughout the course of the show. So you didn’t have to contrive anything, because you stick all these girls in a house together, add some alcohol and some bad attitudes and you see what’s going to happen.
Switching gears a bit, are you working on another book?
Yeah, I am working on it, but not as much as I’d like to be. All the stuff has been committed to paper, so to speak, and I have it all organized. I just have to actually write the thing. It’s a big project to write a book, and I’m really busy right now, so it’s hard to get into that mind-set. But there will be another one.
I can’t let you go without asking a few wrestling questions.
Sure.
Like a lot of people, I was a big fan of your program with Shawn Michaels. How much creative freedom did the two of you have?
Most of the best programs and story lines have a lot of input from the principal characters, and I’ve never been the type of guy to just have somebody write something for me. Obviously, behind the scenes, some of the things that you do from Monday to Monday I have no control over, but I do a lot of writing for all the promos, and Shawn and I did a lot of writing together for some of the things that we did.
The story line was supposed to be a month-long thing, and then it ended up blossoming into me winning the world title as a result of it going seven months. So it really did get bigger than it was ever supposed to, and we took a lot of pride in that because we worked long and hard on it. I think for both of us it was one of the best angles that we’ve ever been involved in. To me, it was definitely the most intricate, and it was fun because people didn’t know for sure if it was real or not. There was so much stuff that happened that was so outside of the box of what you usually see on our shows, and people really took notice of that.
Speaking of real, I’m guessing the punch to Rebecca Michaels’ face wasn’t supposed to be as real as it was. What was Shawn’s reaction once you both got through the curtain, and what did you say to him and Rebecca?
I mean, what could you say? It was one of those things where there’s always the X factor that something could happen like that, and we all knew what the danger of it was. Obviously, Shawn and I felt terrible. Rebecca did not. She loved it. She thought it was awesome. And the fact that she didn’t end up with any permanent damage – no broken teeth, a fat lip for a couple weeks – it’s probably the best thing that could have happened. That really kick-started the angle and took it to a different place. Obviously, I felt so bad about it, but when all was said and done, it actually worked out for the best.
On the flip slide of the last question, what did your wife say when you came home with a broken tooth?
She wasn’t happy about it, but it was more that she was sad that I got hurt. My son wasn’t happy about it either, but that’s the business. I’m a warrior and sometimes things like that happen. I’ve never lost a tooth before; I hope I don’t ever lose one again. You live with it. You look like Lloyd Christmas from Dumb and Dumber until you get to the dentist. And then the next thing you know, you get the crown on there and you never notice anything different.
It’s a war wound and that’s the way I treat it. I think it made that match even more dramatic. I think a lot of people said that was the best ladder match they had ever seen, and that’s probably one of the reasons for it, because they knew it was real. Once again, something happened that was outside the box of what a “normal” wrestling match is. I’m actually lucky that I didn’t lose more teeth. The dentist told me that I should have lost all four of the teeth. So I’ll take the half-tooth and just consider myself lucky.
Would you say your work the past several months has been the best of your career?
Well, I don’t know if I’d be that specific with it, but I did say that I wouldn’t come back unless I was ready to be better than ever. I had some ideas of things I wanted to do when I came back. I wanted to make a transformation of this character, and it took me three of four months to figure out a way to do that. But once it kind of locked it, it was very organic. To hear some people say that it’s the best work of my career, I appreciate that, because I think in a lot of ways it is. I think when I first came back a lot of people were like, “Oh, it’s Jericho doing the same old thing,” and that’s kind of the way I wanted to do it. I didn’t want to make a complete disconnect, but I knew there was a different direction that I wanted to go in, because I don’t want to be the same thing.
I’ve never been into nostalgia, doing the same thing over and over again. It’s got to be a constant evolution. I’ve said this for a long time, and it sounds kind of funny, but I consider myself to be like the Madonna of wrestling. She constantly reinvents herself, constantly reinvents her songs. She still has links to her past, but she has no interest in living there. That’s the same way that I’ve been. A lot of people are like, “We love Y2J. Why don’t you go back to this, grow your hair back?” It’s like, that was cool, that was me in the ’90s and early 2000s, but this is me now, and I think that what I’m doing is just as exciting if not more exciting than it’s ever been.
I thought your title reign ended prematurely. What are your thoughts?
Well, certain things happen at certain times, and there’s different reactions from Vince [McMahon]. And when he makes a decision, you have to go with it. But let me just say that it’s not completely the way that it seems right now – there’s going to be a lot more to it. Vince usually has a lot of different plans, and whether it’s the end of it for good or whether I win the title again, I’m not sure, but it doesn’t matter to me. I think there’s a lot of over-analyzing of different things. To me, the most important thing was that I got it in the first place, which was never supposed to be the case.
I was very happy with the work I did while I had it on this run, and how long you keep a title has nothing to do with me. That’s up to the boss, and whatever he wants to do, I’ll be happy to do it. And I’ll get my chance again, and when I do, I’ll do exactly the same thing I did when I had it the last time, which is do the best work that I possibly can and make people hate me even more. Usually in Vince’s grand scheme of things, even though things sometimes don’t seem like they’re the right way to do things at the start, in the big picture they usually always are. And I’ve been around long enough to know that you have to trust the boss when he has a feeling, and that’s what I’m going to do.
In an interview I did with Rob Van Dam last January, he basically said that when he signed with WWE, you became insecure about losing your spot to him. What is your response?
I’ve never been insecure about anything with my spot. I tried to help Rob, because he was supposed to be a heel and he still was interested in being a babyface. Rob wants to be Rob. He doesn’t want to play along, because he’s RVD and he’s going to do what he wants to do. I’m about business. If I’m a heel, I want to be hated; if I’m a babyface, I want to be cheered. When he was a heel, he wanted to be cheered, so I tried to help him with that. He thought I was insecure about my spot, and I’m sorry that that’s the case. I’ve always been a fan of Rob’s even when most people in the office weren’t, and I always stood up for him. So, if he feels that way it’s too bad, because I was actually one of his biggest supporters.
Do you have any other projects that you want to talk about, or any final words about Redemption Song?
I’m really excited about the show, and I know Fuse is really excited about it. We’re getting great reviews for it, so I’m happy to be a part of it. Every project that I do I give a hundred percent, and I’m very careful with the projects that I pick. And the people who dig what I do usually dig everything that I do because of that. You always know you’re going to get the best quality when Jericho is involved, and this is another in a long line of those things.
And I’m just focusing on the WWE and working as hard as I can there. I’m trying to do this other book when I get a chance. I’ve done some more acting – I did a show for the Disney Channel called Aaron Stone that comes out in February and March. So there are a lot of projects in the works and it’s an exciting time for me. Like I said, it’s cool to know that whenever I do something, that people usually follow me to check it out. I’m very fortunate.
To watch a trailer for Redemption Song, click here.
To watch Redemption Song online, click here.
Photo credit: Carin Baer/Fuse 2008
Hardcore legend Mick Foley makes his first appearance on a TNA pay-per-view this Sunday at Bound for Glory. Foley, who signed with TNA after his WWE contract expired last month, will serve as the special enforcer referee for the Kurt Angle-Jeff Jarrett match.
I conducted a phone interview with Foley yesterday.
What went into your decision to leave WWE?
I just had a real feeling that I had done everything that I possibly could in WWE. I was just dead weight, showing up once in a while doing things like being a judge on “Raw Idol” and for an occasional backstage vignette. I was given a chance to try announcing, and it was a job that in the end I did not care for very much. And so I was really just looking for an opportunity to do something meaningful in wrestling.
Was Vince McMahon yelling in your ear while you were commentating a big part of the reason why you didn’t care for it?
Yeah. It’s funny, because it’s a very small circle of people who’ve actually had experience commentating for WWE, and for those people there is actually no explanation necessary. It’s something that the guys all kind of laugh about. But in my opinion, his style of producing makes things a lot more difficult than they need to be. I think in most cases Vince’s judgments are right, but when it comes to producing announcers, I know in my case it wasn’t the most effective way.
How has your relationship with Vince evolved over the years? Did it change in 2005 when you almost when to TNA?
To answer your second question, it definitely did. There was a definite evolution in that for the first two years I was with WWE, I was somebody who worked there but who was not necessarily someone who was close at all with Mr. McMahon. That changed in ’98, ’99 and 2000. It became strained in 2001 when I felt like I had done everything that I could and was feeling a little bit like dead weight. I’d say the relationship was definitely strained when I almost when to TNA – strained to the point where I no longer felt comfortable going into Vince’s office and pilfering food. So that’s a telltale sign when you no longer feel comfortable taking free food from your boss; you know there’s been a strain.
What is it about TNA that made you want to work there?
I always felt like the wrestling business was better off with two viable mainstream promotions. I was extremely dedicated to WWE during the wrestling wars, but I came to feel that there should be more than one place, and I really had a lot of empathy for guys who were really good and worked really hard but didn’t seem to fit into what it was that WWE was looking for in wrestlers. Probably better than anybody, I realized that I could have easily been one of those guys who was not seen as being a WWE-type guy. I thought I was in a position to change things a little bit in 2005, and did live with a little bit of guilt about not making the move. Therefore, when I had a chance to go in 2008, it seemed like a natural move to make.
Your deal with TNA has been labeled a “short-term deal.” I don’t know how specific you can be, but how short is short term?
TNA understood that I was getting out of a serious relationship, so to speak, and that I wasn’t quite sure whether I was ready to jump back in again. So they kind of gave me the legal leeway to dip my toes in the water before taking a big plunge. But I’m really enjoying it, and the more I see of it the more confident I am that it’s a place I’ll want to stay for a while.
What will your role be in TNA? How often will you wrestle?
I think what limited my role when I was WWE commissioner in 2000 was my reluctance to get back in the ring every now and then. As a matter of fact, if I had to go back in time and change one thing in my career, it would be my reluctance to get back in and wrestle Vince at WrestleMania 17 in 2001. If I do end up in a regular non-wrestling role with TNA, I feel like I would need to step in there every once in a while to make the role as productive as it could be.
Besides former WWE guys that you’re familiar with such as Kurt Angle, Booker and Christian, who on the TNA roster impresses you and who are some of the guys you would like to work with?
Samoa Joe is a perfect example of why there needs to be a second promotion. He’s a guy I pushed for hard to get a shot at WWE, but he just was, for whatever reason, not seen as a WWE guy. And so in some way, shape or form I’d like to get involved with Joe. Sting is a guy who in my mind really put me on the mainstream map in 1991, so it might be fun to revisit that history. And there are a lot of younger guys that I was able to see in 2005 when I was refereeing independent shows who have since gone on to be a big part of TNA, like Homicide, Jay Lethal, Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin. The one thing I can say in all good conscience is that, top to bottom, I think TNA has a better actual wrestling lineup than WWE.
How realistic is it for TNA to ever become legitimate competition for WWE?
You know, I’m not sure that’s the goal any more than it was [TNA majority shareholder] Panda Energy’s goal to be competition for Exxon Mobil. [TNA president] Dixie Carter’s father kind of saw the future in alternate fuel services, and has proven that you don’t have to out-drill Exxon Mobil to be very successful in the energy business. So I don’t think that we need to out-produce WWE in order to be very successful. I think that’s the goal – to be very successful, not to try to claim some bogus bragging right to being No. 1.
I don’t want to put you on the spot, but Kurt Angle has said in a number of interviews that he feels TNA eventually will be on par with WWE.
To me, it is viable that we could be beating them in the ratings, because I look at the Monday Night Wars when there was about 70 percent more people watching wrestling on a given night than there is now, and I do think it’s possible to get a lot of those fans back, or at least some of them, and tilt the favor to TNA’s side. As far as trying to compete on every level, that would kind of be like the Tampa Bay Rays trying to out-Yankee the Yankees, but that doesn’t mean that Tampa Bay didn’t have a better team this year.
You led me right into my next question when you mentioned the Monday Night Wars. If Impact went head-to-head with Raw or Smackdown, could the Monday Night Wars be recreated?
Could I be like one of those politicians who claim that they don’t answer hypotheticals? [laughs] I’ll just leave it at that. I don’t know if it will ever come to that. If it does, I’ll do my best to make it an interesting competition.
I want to get your opinion of one of the most polarizing figures in the business: Vince Russo, who is on the TNA creative team. You worked with him closely in WWE during a very successful period, and then he went to WCW and things were not so successful there. There are two schools of thought regarding Russo: He’s either a genius or a goof. What is your take?
You know, I always thought highly of him. And people who doubt my word can go back and see what I put in writing. I think I said that it turned out that he needed some direction for his ideas and that Vince [McMahon] was the guy who provided the direction. But I always have confidence in his ideas, and I think he was a big part of the reason why the Mankind character became so successful. Part of his talent was in letting the guys have the freedom to come up with their own ideas. It was just such a relief for me these past few weeks to go out there and hear my music in the Impact Zone and realize, wow, I can say what I want and it’ll feel fresh because I haven’t been asked to explain myself to 10 different people.
Another polarizing figure is Triple H. I don’t think anyone can deny that you played a big role in helping him become a legitimate headliner. Yet I read in The Wrestling Observer recently that he might have been one of your detractors backstage. What are your thoughts?
I don’t know whether or not he was one of my detractors. If he was, I’d like to think it was based purely on business He wouldn’t be alone in thinking that I’m not able to contribute at the level I once did. But I think there were other people who’d hear the reaction that I would get when I’d go out there, and say, “You can’t tell me that you can’t do something productive with this guy.” But as far as looking back and feeling like you owe somebody a debt because they worked well with you in the ring, that might be overstated. I am grateful to a guy like Sting for providing me the opportunity to move up in my career, but I haven’t walked around feeling like I owe him a debt for the last 17 years. I’ve had a bunch of people who’ve been very beneficial to my career, and believe me I was more than happy to do what I could to help [Triple H]. Let’s face it: It was my job.
I know that you don’t want to put yourself over too much, but you really did play a significant role in helping other guys like Edge and Randy Orton get to where they are. How satisfying is that for you?
It’s always nice to be acknowledged. I feel like my contributions are acknowledged often enough. Believe me, I do not feel like I’ve slipped though the cracks of public perception.
Who do you think is the most underutilized guy in WWE?
For years it probably would have been Edge, and then he finally got his chance. If you ask my 16-year-old, he’ll tell you it’s Shelton Benjamin. There are a handful of guys that probably have been hit with the label of being a mid-card guy who, if given the chance, could probably burst through that glass ceiling.
A lot of people compare the Abyss character to the Mankind character that you created. What are your thoughts?
I think it’s pretty flattering. I guess I might find it threatening if I was still the 1997 Mankind, but I find it more of a tribute than a threat. I guess I was one of his favorites and I think it shows.
I know you always have things going on outside of wrestling. Any acting opportunities coming up or perhaps another book in the works? I’ve also heard there might be a Foley family reality show.
[Laughs]. We did a pilot for A&E where A&E moved into our house for 16 hours a day over the course of eight days.
I heard it wasn’t picked up because your family was just too normal.
Well, I wouldn’t necessarily use the word normal. There just wasn’t enough conflict in the family. So if they’d just waited until my wife brought home my Pomeranian that I strongly attempted to persuade her not to get, there would have been plenty of conflict [laughs]. But you never know. We’ve got hundreds of hours of footage and it wouldn’t be hard for another company to film a new scene or so and put it on somewhere. But the truth is, although I was disappointed, I was mostly relieved, because a reality show is not without its drawbacks.
It certainly didn’t turn out too well for the Hogans.
No. Probably all things considered, they may not have made the same decision if they had the same opportunity again.
What about any acting opportunities for you? Every now and then I read that you’re up for certain roles.
Yeah, every now and then something comes up. I’m flattered that people want to build shows around me, but I really think if someone wants me in a show, a producer from a successful show could call me up and make me like the third or fourth banana. I really have no aspirations to carry the weight of a show on my shoulders. Although I may give it a try again in the next year or so. I’ve got a couple of investment opportunities, and the more the economy struggles, the more likely it is that I may actually try something a little different.
And what about your writing career?
I want to see how the next couple years develop and see if I have stories worth telling. I’m always batting around ideas for fiction and I would like to give a children’s book another try. I might talk to Give Kids the World and see if I could donate the royalties to their great organization.
When I spoke to you a few years ago you mentioned that you were thinking about writing a book in which the narrator was an African-American woman.
Yeah, but you know, I think that’s setting myself up for harsh judgment. So I’m thinking of a way to tell the same story through the voice of a white male.
What is the story about?
I’d rather not say because I’m not sure if I’m going to use my name on it. I might throw it out there and see if it can gain attention without a wrestler’s name attributed to it.
I have a couple outside-the-box questions for you. To use wrestling vernacular, who do you think is going over in the presidential election?
[Laughs]. Oh man. I have to tell you, I think every wrestler should study this heel turn that McCain has undergone. A couple of the right promos and all of a sudden people who really looked up to the guy are now saying, “What in the world has happened to John McCain?” I always liked him and respected him but, man, it’s kind of hard for me to feel good about him these days. You know, in both my novels, the father characters become what they fear the most, and I think, unfortunately, McCain is kind of becoming what it is he loathes.
What did you think of the candidates’ appearance on Raw?
I’m not sure that anyone told Senator Obama that he would later be parodied. I think it’s a case where less is more. Senator McCain threw every wrestling cliche at the wall and tried to see what would stick, and Senator Obama went with, “Do you smell what Barack is cooking?” and that one line meant more than all the muddling of cliches that John McCain threw together. And speaking of babyface and heel turns, I think Senator Clinton did a very subtle heel turn followed by a couple of tremendous babyface speeches [laughs]. Life imitates wrestling to such an incredible degree.
Final question. What is your biggest claim to fame: Being a former WWE champion, being a best-selling author or being a close, personal friend of Christy Canyon?
[Laughs]. Well, one of the three means a lot more at parties, believe me. It’s a definite icebreaker.
Mick, do you have any final thoughts or is there anything else you wanted to discuss?
I’m going to Sierra Leone at the end of the month. It’s a trip that’s been postponed twice, but it looks like I might actually be going there. So maybe in a month or so I’ll have something from the real world to talk about.
I sat down for an interview yesterday afternoon with WWE star Jeff Hardy at the Westfield Montgomery Mall in Bethesda, where he was making a personal appearance to promote Smackdown’s move to MyNetworkTV (WUTB-24 in Baltimore) beginning tonight. Hardy is scheduled to wrestle Triple H for the WWE title this Sunday at the No Mercy pay-per-view.
To say you had a difficult week last March would be a huge understatement. Now that six months or so have passed, can you talk about what it was like to go through the suspension and your house burning down in the same week?
Well, first of all, I have titled that the saddest day of my adult life — by far. The night I lost the Intercontinental title I had been suspended, which is to everybody’s knowledge now because I have been very open about that, and then that Friday night I lost everything, and the saddest thing is I lost my dog Jack. You hear about fires all the time, but then you experience it, man, it’s just like, “Wow, this really happens to people.” It’s a night I’ll never forget, naturally. A week or so later I found Jack’s body in the ruins. I got a little closure to that and cried a lot, was sad a lot and had bad dreams. When I came back we actually made that somewhat of a story line, but I was confident enough in myself and with Beth and everything that we got past that. You know, you can’t just die with everything you lost. You have to live for what you lost. So that’s what I’m doing now and everything’s much better. Our new house is under construction. It’s looking great, and hopefully by spring we’ll be in there. Thank God I had Matt, because if I didn’t I’d be renting an apartment somewhere. Matt’s been very cool to have open arms and invite us into his home.
How much did the support of your fans help you get through it all?
Actually it’d blow your mind, man, to see what’s still in Matt’s basement to this day. Naturally, people wanted to send clothing, memorabilia, stuff like that. Once Matt put that address out on his myspace, it was just a flood — every day we had to go to the post office. Beth was the one to go through all that. It was just amazing how much response we got — how many actions figures, how many clothes. It might not have been my certain style, but just the care that was there and the meaning behind it. It’s amazing the support I had from the fans. Even today, man, seeing such a foundation right in front of me of all these humans that are behind me, it’s just very motivational.
How difficult was it for you not to be at WrestleMania, because you were supposed to be an integral part of it. Did you even watch it?
It’s so strange, you know, because I was going to be a huge part of that in the Money in the Bank match, and Matt was hurt at the time and he was able to return at Mania, so, naturally, I watched it. I would have watched it anyway because I’m a huge ladder match fan and just to see how good the match would be. In a sense I was kind of sickened by the whole thing. But I did something wrong according to the Wellness Policy and I had to pay the price. So here I am on my last strike right now, and one more and I’m out, so I’m just trying to keep it all good. As far as WrestleMania goes, as angry or sad as I was that I missed it, I also was supposed to take part in an art show down there. I think Jerry Lawler was in it as well. I missed out on that just over what to me was a small mistake, but to them it’s huge.
Can you talk about the recent incident at the Nashville airport, when you were denied boarding a flight?
Oh, of course. That was extremely blown out of proportion. So many wrestlers drink at times, and I had been drinking a lot that night. I’m not going to lie — I’ve been on planes a lot drunker than that. There was nothing rude done; I wasn’t violent or anything like that. I guess I was stumbling boarding the plane or something, and somebody must have just said that I was drunk, because I was asleep on the plane. This is Southwest, you know, open seating and everything. The first thing I remember is just waking up and security — it wasn’t police, it was security — saying, “Mr. Hardy, you have to get off the plane. We feel you’ve had too much to drink.” Matt got up and was like, “What’s the problem?” They were like, “He’s had too much to drink.” I go, “I was asleep. I’ll wake up in Raleigh. I’ve been like this before.” But I just cooperated and left the plane.
Do you think the company lost any confidence in you over the incident?
No. Right away, once I got home I called who I needed to call and just told them what happened. It does make me sick when — especially with me — anything negative, the Internet wants to highlight right away. One [site] actually said that Beth was with me and she was the one that was too drunk and she was handcuffed. I was never handcuffed. There were these crazy things like, “He got caught with contraband.” It was nothing like that.
Your brother Matt is enjoying the best run of his career. Is there a friendly rivalry or competition between the two of you?
I think with him more than me. Whether I ever become WWE champion in my career, I’m proud of what I’ve done. If this weekend was my last match, I would be extremely proud after looking back and seeing everything. Matt is more the competitive type. I think he probably feels a little supreme that he became a heavyweight champion before I did. It’s in ECW, but I’m sure he feels a little like he’s ahead of the game when it comes to brotherly competition, but I’m nowhere near as competitive as he is. I’m just very proud of him, and maybe I can do the same. We’ll see.
You’re known for doing incredible high-risk maneuvers. I’m curious as to how the process works. Do you present an idea for a big move, such as the Swanton off the scaffold with Randy Orton, to creative, or do they come to you and ask if you would feel comfortable doing something?
Most of the time they’ll come to me with the idea — even that [Swanton] was suggested. There’s been things that have been suggested that I’ve turned down — I’m like, “I don’t feel confident doing that.” Any time it’s a Swanton, I’m confident. But if I feel I can’t do it, I won’t do it. The one to Randy Orton was pretty crazy, man, because that was extremely high. And even the one off the truck to Umaga was creepy, too. Anybody that would go out there and check out the setup themselves would say, “Wow, it takes a lot of nerve to do this.”
You said that you have turned down things that have been suggested to you. Have you ever come up with something and Vince McMahon or someone said, “No, that’s too dangerous”?
One thing that stands out is when Brock Lesnar was still with us, I had this idea of somehow Paul Heyman would be laid out near the middle of the ring, but Brock would be underneath the turnbuckle I was jumping off of . And I’d go to Swanton Paul Heyman, and Brock Lesnar spears me in the air while I’m upside down. They said no. I was like, “My momentum’s going that way anyway. I feel confident in it.” But they were like, “No way.” I needed a couple action figures just to show it to them.
When I interviewed you back in January, you said that you don’t practice high-risk stunts, you just do them in one take. How do you know you can pull them off before you do them?
They put a lot of faith in me. I’m like, “Nah, I’m doing that one time and one time only. If it goes wrong, it goes wrong, but, nevertheless, it’s going to be on TV so it’s got to be good.” But, yeah, they just have faith in me, especially with any kind of Swanton. As many as I’ve done over the years, they have confidence that I can get it done.
Do you feel like Sunday’s match against Triple H at No Mercy is the biggest of your career? And do you feel like you have something to prove?
No, I don’t think I have anything to prove to people. But I know in most people’s eyes they think I have to get the WWE championship to prove that I’m No. 1 or whatever. Naturally it would be nice to become WWE champion, especially for all my fans that have always waited for that, but, yeah, I think it probably is the biggest match of my career. When I wrestled Randy Orton, that was probably the biggest match of my career at that point, because that was when I had the other shot at the WWE championship. Here I am again in another scenario for the WWE championship, and we’ll see.
Do you have a favorite match or favorite moment from your career?
I’d say all those TLC matches, but probably the most memorable one for me — I think it was in Raleigh. It was the first time anybody had ever hung from the rings — that was my idea. I even tried to do it in the first ladder match that we had, because I had that in my mind, but the rings weren’t strong enough to hold a body. But just to pull of something like that that comes from your brain is always spectacular for you because you’re like, “Wow, I thought this up and we brought it to reality.” It was me and Devon [Dudley], and it was just an awesome spot. I’ll never forget the feeling. Everybody just went, “Whoa! What is going on? This is crazy.”
Is there anybody that you haven’t worked with that you would like to?
Yeah, Rey Mysterio. I’ve tagged with him before. During the draft it was kind of a bummer because when he went to Raw I was like, “Yeah, me and Rey are going to get to tear it up.” I had no idea I was going to Smackdown. Then when I got drafted I was like, “Oh well, throw that out the door.”
Another question I asked you in January was whether you had any interest in having a feud with Matt. You said that you did and you’d like to wrestle him at WrestleMania XXV. Is there any chance of that happening then or some other time in the future?
Yeah, for sure. Matt and I both are big fans of Bret Hart-Owen Hart feud matches. I remember us being brothers and watching brothers wrestle on pay-per-view and were like, “How cool would that be?” Matt and I wrestled each other all the time back in the OMEGA days, so how cool would that be for us to be wrestling each other [in WWE]? I’m sure a lot of people would like to see that, too. I know people always say, “Nobody wants to see The Hardy Boyz fight,” but if it was done right, it could be phenomenal.
Any final thoughts before we wrap up?
Just watch MyNetwork TV tomorrow night (laughs).
Yes, that’s why we’re here, right?
Yeah, it’s like a recorder that’s broken in my head because I’ve said it so many times.
OK, I’ll set you up with a question. Do you feel like going to another network is a fresh start for Smackdown?
Yeah, it’s kind of exciting. I remember back in the day when Raw switched channels; it’s always exciting to try something new. Even now on Smackdown I’m more comfortable than I was at first. It has become my place to do my thing. So, yeah, if I switch brands, why not switch channels?
Photo courtesy of WWE
Diamond Dallas Page is a three-time WCW world heavyweight champion and was one of the biggest stars of the wrestling boom from a decade ago. Since his wrestling career ended a few years ago, he has become an actor and a motivational speaker. And now he has added “fitness guru” to his resume.
Page is the architect of YRG (Yoga For Regular Guys), and his hybrid of traditional yoga, calisthenics and isometric exercises has resulted in some amazing transformations. YRG’s most dramatic success story is Arthur Boorman of Brooklyn (Md.), who went from 340 pounds to 156 pounds by doing YRG and following an eating plan designed by Page.
I spoke to DDP over the phone recently about YRG and, of course, wrestling.
It’s been well documented that Kimberly, who was your wife at the time, got you into yoga, and that helped you in your wrestling career …
I wouldn’t say helped. I had three doctors tell me my career was over.
OK, maybe helped is understating it.
Yeah (laughs). My three-year multi-million dollar deal was going to go away. I started doing yoga, which I quickly started to change and adapt. Within the first month, I was already modifying a lot of the workout and doing it on my own. That’s when I threw in old-school calisthenics – pushups, squats, crunches – doing a slow-burn movement. And then you add in isometrics. That’s what jacks your heart rate up and gets you in a fat-burning zone.
The most amazing success story of YRG is Arthur Boorman. What goes through your mind when you see something that dramatic occurring because of YRG?
Two words: Anything’s possible. Anybody that buys the [YRG] DVDs gets an e-mail from me. Arthur was one of the people who really needed some help, so I wanted to know more about him. And that’s when I found out that he was a disabled veteran, he has three kids and he works 70 hours a week as a special educator teaching kids and adults how to read. I grew up with ADD [Attention Deficit Disorder] and dyslexia. I was reading at a third-grade level until the age of 30 before I made the decision that I was going to learn how to read. Now I’m helping a guy that could have helped me learn how to read. How weird is that?
When he sent me his first two pictures, I was like, “Oh, my God. How do I help him?” I’m looking at a picture of him right now wearing his size 48-inch pants, and now he has a 30-inch waist. I sent him the eating plan, and I knew it was going to take a lot of discipline. He sent me back four powerful words. He didn’t say “I’ll give it a try.” He didn’t say “I think I can do it. He said “I can do this.” That’s all he sent me. I sent him back an e-mail saying, “Send me your phone number.” And what I ended up doing is calling him up and basically telling him, “Dude, at this rate, going the way you’re going, you ain’t going to live that much longer.” And he knew it.
He had gone to a yoga studio and said, “Is there a class you have that I can taker?” You know what they told him? They said, “We can’t. We’re not geared to help someone like you.” Now he teaches YRG in a yoga studio – at the hardcore level, too. This guy works 70 hours a week. So when people tell me “I can’t,” “I don’t have time,” “I’m too beat up,” I just go, “Oh, really?” (laughs) I do a little YRG segment at my speaking [engagements] where I show where my flexibility is today and I pull my foot over my head while I’m standing there talking to them. I say, “And I’m 52 years old, so you can’t tell me that you’re too beat up or you’re too old.” Then I show Arthur, who is the hero of my inspirational speaking talk.
Tell me about the mental aspect of YRG.
I had to help Arthur reprogram the way he thinks. With every DVD comes the Own Your Life audio book. The concept is that 10 percent of life is what happens to you, and 90 percent is how you react to it. These are all things that I applied when I became a wrestler at 35; tore my rotator cuff at 36. Everyone told me I would never get my job back and that I was never going to make it. I came back at 37. At 40 I went through the roof. It’s that tenacity not to take no for an answer. It’s a belief that all that hard work is going to pay off. Most people stumble and fall and they go, “Oh God, I can’t do this.” You’re right, you can’t. Unless you get the [heck] back up and do it again.
I know you are usually involved in several projects at once. What’s going on with your acting career and the motivational speaking?
I spoke recently in Tucson, Ariz., to a corporation called Click Automotive, which owns 15 car dealerships. I not only spoke to them about my concept of living life at 90 percent, but on top of that I took them through my breakout YRG presentation, where I’ll talk about the YRG benefits for about 20 minutes to a half an hour, and then take them through a workout. Within that same month, I did an independent movie in Detroit called Red and Blue Marbles. I filmed four episodes for John Schneider of Dukes of Hazzard and Smallville fame – he has his own show called Twentysixmiles. I play a recurring character in the show.
How much, if at all, are you involved with wrestling at this point? Are you doing any independent shows?
No. They call me all the time. I really can’t take the chance of getting hurt. I’m in too good of shape. I don’t want the chance of anything stupid happening. I mean, you see John Cena going to armdrag somebody and he tears his biceps. You know, I’m 52 years old; he’s 26, or whatever he is [laughs].
I think he’s 30 [actually 31].
He’s 22 years younger than me. I don’t need to prove anything in that ring anymore. I’ve done all that.
Are you still watching wrestling at all?
I watch it occasionally.
What are your thoughts on the current state of the business?
I think it’s going through a transition. Everybody wants to say it’s not what it was, blah, blah, blah. Well right now a lot of these new fans that come on, they don’t really know who these new guys are because there are so many new guys. But there are a lot of talented kids out there. I think Edge has come into his own; he’s a phenomenal performer. The thing that I love the most about Edge is that he was that kid at WrestleMania who wanted to be a wrestler more than anything. I love that he’s rising to the top. I was the first top name that he ever went over on. Of course, Vince [McMahon] wanted it like that. To me, I was like, “Hey dude. I’m happy to do you the favor. Plenty of guys did it for me.” I like Batista because he’s very charismatic and he doesn’t have to raise his voice. He’s got that smile and he’s got that swagger, and he’s all jacked up. I like Randy Orton a lot, too.
I remember a conversation I had with you about five years ago when you mentioned that you had a tryout with WWE in 1990 to be a color commentator, and that you might be interested in returning to wrestling at some point to do color. I thought about that about nine months ago or so when JBL vacated his seat at the announce table on Smackdown. I thought you were one of the guys who could have filled that role. Do you still have interest in doing that?
Not today. At some point? Absolutely. [WWE executive producer] Kevin Dunn said I was the next Jesse Ventura. Kevin Dunn is great at what he does. I really consider it an honor coming from him because he has seen them all. When I did do color [in WCW], I know what the [heck] I’m talking about. And I’m not going to get overly excited about something that’s not exciting. But if it is, I’m going to make you feel it through the TV. Back when I didn’t know what the [heck] I was saying, I was [somewhat] interesting to listen to, without having the pedigree of being a three-time world champion. Bradshaw came be as annoying as [anything] to listen to, but he’s a really good heel. His character is not a real stretch for him [laughs]. He’s a guy that I actually really like to watch now. He’s a heel in an old-school way.
I don’t think I’ll ever be out of wrestling, because I was that kid at 8 years old that dreamed of being a world champion. At some point I see myself doing something; I just don’t know when. And I’ve thought about doing color. Right now it’s not in my sights because of all the [stuff] I’ve got going. If YRG turns into what I believe it’s going to, it’s going to dwarf what I did in wrestling.
Any final thoughts?
If you want to see where Diamond Dallas Page is today, just go to my Web site, diamonddallaspage.com. It [ticks] me off how the media says, “After these guys get done wrestling, look at this death, and this death, and this guy lost everything.” That’s not the way it is all the way around. There are a lot of guys that are very successful. Go to diamonddallaspage.com and look at my Web site. What you see is what you get with me. There’s no smoke and mirrors on any of my [stuff].
Handout photo
Tammy Sytch is considered by many to be the original WWE Diva. As Sunny, she was the top woman in wrestling during the mid-1990s. Since her release from WWE a decade ago, however, she has been one of the industry’s more controversial figures. After brief stints in ECW and WCW following her departure from WWE, Sytch has been a fixture on the independent circuit for the past eight years.
She appeared on Raw’s 15th anniversary show last December, which sparked rumors that she was going to be offered a WWE contract. Later, the buzz on the Internet was that TNA was going to bring her in to play Kurt Angle’s love interest. A job never materialized with either company.
I spoke with Sytch in a phone interview recently to discuss her career.
How often are you appearing at independent shows these days, and who are some of the promotions that you’ve worked for recently?
I work for the smallest little indies all the way up to Ring of Honor; I work overseas; I work in Germany a lot. Every single weekend I’m somewhere – at least one show per weekend, sometimes up to three. Business is actually very good right now. One big trip I’m looking forward to is going to France in November. I also did a Star Wars convention recently in Niagara Falls. They’re always interesting. You get these weirdos walking around dressed up like Darth Vader (laughs).
They make us wrestling fans look normal by comparison, right?
Oh, absolutely. The Stars Wars fans are so much creepier than wrestling fans. You get all these girls walking around like Princess Leia wearing the little bikini – and they really shouldn’t be wearing that little bikini. But whoever wants to hire me to sign my name and smile, I’ll go (laughs).
Are you enjoying getting out there and meeting the fans?
Oh yeah. There were a few fans that showed up to see Stars Wars who had no idea that I was going to be there and spent more time talking to me than they did the original Darth Vader. It’s cool. I really like doing conventions and signings. It’s a lot easier than doing anything in the ring or even ringside. I like keeping my face out there.
You appeared at the Raw 15th anniversary show back in December, which sparked rumors that you might be headed back to WWE. Is there still a chance of that happening?
There’s always a chance. Anything can happen in this crazy business. That was a really awesome night. They called me three weeks ahead of time and told me that they were thinking of having me on the show, but it wasn’t definite yet and they would let me know. Then about a week before, I got the phone call back and they said, “We definitely want you there. I was like, “Awesome.” I was so excited and all pumped up. I dieted my butt off. I worked out like a madwoman in the gym. I’m in the car on the way to Bridgeport, Conn., and my boyfriend’s driving and we’re about 10 minutes away from the building, and I started physically shaking. He looked at me and he goes, “What is the matter? Are you nervous?” I said, “I’m so nervous. You have no idea.” He said, “Why are you nervous? You’ve been doing this for 18 years.” I said, "No, you don’t understand. Hearing my music, walking down the ramp and doing my thing in the ring, that’s not what I’m nervous about. That’s old hat for me. I can do that with my eyes closed. What I’m nervous about is walking into that locker room and seeing all these people I haven’t seen for years and seeing people I don’t know.”
I’d heard from people who have been in that company since I was there that the locker room was completely changed. We were all friends when I was there. It was kind of like a family on the road. And what I had heard was that the past few years there was just a bunch of back-stabbers [and] nobody likes each other in the locker room. So I was actually very nervous about how the whole locker room scene was going to be, seeing people that I had history with – good and bad. It was nerve-wracking. But as soon as I walked in that back door everybody who saw me came right over, gave me hugs and kisses and was so happy to see me that every bit of nervousness exited my body immediately. I was shocked because here I am, ready to walk into the female locker room after hearing all these horror stories from people like Dawn Marie, who told me how all the girls hated each other, and every single girl in that locker room kissed my butt (laughs). They were awesome. They paid me so much respect, and the girls that I thought I would not like at all, like the girls from the Diva Search like Maria, she was one of the nicest ones there.
I’m not a big fan of the Diva Search thing. I was raised old school in this business. To bring girls in off the street that know nothing about this business and giving them a job when there are so many girls that really respect this business and have learned their craft that can’t get a job, I think that’s the wrong way to go about hiring girls. I was thinking that I definitely was not going to like these girls, but Maria came right over to me; she got me a bottle of water when I was thirsty and couldn’t find anything to drink; she was great. Melina – I didn’t like her character, so I guess she was doing her job really well because I bought into it – she was great. Now we keep in touch all the time. We talk on the phone, we e-mail, we text. She’s awesome. Every girl was just so nice. I was like, “Wait a minute. This is not the locker room that Dawn Marie was warning me about.” It was completely different from what I expected. It was a really fun night. I didn’t want to leave. Around 11:30 everybody’s starting to pull their bags out and go home and go to their hotels, and I wanted the night to keep going because I was having such a good time.
There also were rumors that you were going to be brought into TNA to play Kurt Angle’s love interest. What happened with that?
I heard that, too, but the only place I ever heard that was on the Internet. I was never contacted. Nobody ever said anything to me about any kind of idea. After 18 years in the business, I’ve learned that you don’t believe anything until you have your name on paper and money in your hand. You can’t believe rumors; you can’t believe that somebody has an idea for you unless it’s actually happening. I’ve been heartbroken many times when I thought ideas that were going to happen didn’t happen, so I don’t get my hopes up for anything. So all of a sudden, all these people are saying, “Oh, what happened? How did you screw up your deal?” I’m like, “There was no deal. It was an Internet rumor.” I’ve even contacted a couple of my friends that are producers and writers in TNA after I heard the rumors, and I was like, “What is going on?” And they were like, “We have no idea. We never heard anything like that.” So as far as I’m concerned, it was just an Internet rumor.
Do you want to work full-time again with one of the two companies?
Never say never. I kind of like how my life is right now. I work every weekend. I’m comfortable with money. And I like playing the housewife role during the week. Monday through Thursday, I clean the house, I cook dinner, and I take care of the landscaping. It’s kind of fun and it’s something I’ve never done before. It’s a nice, calm, normal life. I go the gym, I go to the tanning salon and I come home and take care of the house and my boyfriend. And then on the weekends I go and play (laughs). But never say never. I do love being on the road, and being on the road is where I’ve always been most comfortable – in hotels and rental cars and airplanes. A lot of people wouldn’t be able to fathom being away so much, but I kind of enjoy it. I’m kind of a gypsy at heart.
It would really have to be worth it. I definitely wouldn’t get in the ring and do anything physical. I’ve got some herniated disks in my lower back that I need surgery on and it’s just not worth it to me to go in there and have to get the surgery any sooner than I have to. I’m trying to put it off as long as possible. I’ve never been a wrestler; I’ve never said I was any good at it, because I’m not, even the couple times that I have been in the ring. If anybody wanted to hire me and have me in the ring, I think they’re foolish because why have me do something I’m not good at. Put me on the microphone, let me be a manager or a broadcaster or host a TV show – that’s what I’m good at. Don’t put me in the ring, because I suck (laughs).
We’ll see. If something comes about and there’s an offer made or an idea, I’ll definitely consider it. The night I was there for Raw, I got a lot of good vibes from people like Johnny Ace and Stephanie McMahon, and you never know. See, they’re the kind of company that they’re not going to hire you just to hire you and then figure out something to do with you. They’ll wait until they have an idea and see who is going to fit in the role for that idea, and then they’ll give you a call. They’re never going to hire somebody and then try to think of what to do with them. So if something happens down the road, great. But they better get a move on because I’m not getting any younger (laughs).
You mentioned broadcasting. I actually threw your name out there a while back when JBL left his job as color commentator on Smackdown. I thought you would be a good choice because it would be different to have a woman, and the fans are familiar with you and you’re a student of the business.
Well, I had the experience of doing commentary for Shotgun Saturday Night with Vince [McMahon] every week. That was so much fun. I had a blast. A lot of people have always been intimidated by Vince, but I don’t get intimidated very easily. I think the only person in this business who has ever intimidated me was Hulk Hogan. Vince doesn’t intimidate me. He was kind of like a father figure to me. He was very good to me. A lot of people, every time they have to work with Vince they totally blow it because they’re just so nervous to be around him. I used to play off of him. I used to grab him and make him dance with me on tables. The goofier I got with him, the better it was. It made it fun and took those nerves out. I got that history doing that kind of thing, so you never know.
You’ve talked in the past about problems that you’ve had with drugs …
All right, back up a second. I’ve never had a problem with drugs. I’ve never used any kind of recreational drug in my life.
What about prescription drugs?
Prescription drugs that were prescribed by my doctors, yes. I’ve never smoked pot. I’ve never even touched it. I’ve never done any kind of recreational drug in my life. I’ve never smoked anything; never snorted anything; never did anything like that. When I say the word “drugs,” that’s what I think of – recreational drugs. Prescription medication I don’t consider drugs. You’re not taking that to get a buzz; you’re taking a painkiller because you have pain, or you’re taking a Xanax because you need to go to sleep. It’s a totally different thing.
You did talk about having a problem with prescription drugs during an interview with Paul Heyman on the old ECW, right?
(Sighs) Can I tell you how scripted that was? That wasn’t even me. He wrote down everything he wanted me to say. He said, “We want to make it like a True Hollywood Story thing, but I’m going to script it out so we can try to get sympathy from the viewers.” Every single thing I said on there was basically written out on paper by him. So, a lot of it was truthful, like when we were talking about my dad or my niece, but there was a lot that weren’t – it was straight out of Paul Heyman’s head. Come on, it’s wrestling. You think this is all real? (laughs)
Obviously not. But I thought that interview was presented as a shoot.
Of course. And everybody believed it was, but it really wasn’t (laughs).
Well, the reason I brought the subject up is because I wanted to ask what your thoughts are on WWE’s Wellness Policy.
It’s something that should have been there a long time ago. When I was there, we had random drug testing, but it was so obvious that whoever they needed to pass the tests always passed the tests. I knew of a lot of people – and I’m not going to name anybody – that were doing a lot of stuff that they shouldn’t have been doing, and they passed every single time. And then there were some guys who would go out and party just a little bit and they would get popped on their tests because they weren’t necessary in the business. It was just to prove a point, or if they needed a way to get rid of you and they couldn’t just release you, you’d get popped on a test. But if they needed you for your angle and you weren’t expendable, you passed every single time. So it wasn’t as serious as it is now, but it should have been because maybe we’d have a lot of guys around that have passed away. I think it’s a good thing, but I do think they test for things they really shouldn’t.
See, I’m not one of those people who say, “Oh, steroids are bad.” Let me tell you, steroids are in every professional sport. You can’t avoid it. Yes, it does enhance your performance. But in a lot of ways, some of these guys do need that enhancement. You can’t go out there if you’re 5-foot-5, 145 pounds soaking wet and be a contender for the heavyweight championship. You’re going to need some kind of enhancement to even be taken seriously. So, I’m not an advocate of it, but I’m not the kind of person who says, “Oh, steroids are bad. Don’t do them.” So in that sense, I really don’t think they should be so hard on that. But as far as all the recreational drug use and abuse, absolutely, because like I said, maybe we’d have more guys around now.
I want to ask you about a well-documented incident that took place when you were in WCW. I was actually backstage the night that Kimberly Page supposedly found some drug paraphernalia in the women’s bathroom and told management that it was yours. I heard that you took a drug test after that and you passed, so why were you let go?
I volunteered [to take the drug test]. I said, “It’s not mine. I’ll go pee in a cup right now.” They said, “We’ll send you tomorrow when we get to the next town.” I said, “OK, fine. Send me.” So a week after I took the test, I went to [Eric] Bischoff and I said, “Do you have my results yet?” “Uh, no, we can’t seem to locate results.” He was beating around the bush the whole time. Three weeks later, after bugging him like every single day for my results, he said, “Well, we finally got a hold of your results and you passed – you’re negative.” I said, “I [freakin’] told you,” and I went off on him. See, I’m not the kind of person that will keep my mouth shut and go with the flow; I’ll speak my mind. I guess he didn’t like the fact that I told him off and that he was wrong and had to admit it. He couldn’t live with himself, and like two weeks later I got a phone call from Terry Taylor who said, “The angle doesn’t seem to be working out, so we’re going to have to release you.”
At that point, I was like, “I don’t even want to be in this [expletive] company. For you to accuse me of something, have me pass the test and then not be able to face up to the fact that you were wrong and let’s just go on with work – I didn’t even want to work in a company like that. It was pathetic. But that night when it all happened, Scott Steiner chased Kimberly Page out of the building and she never came back (laughs). I’ve always been friends with Scott since I was 18 years old. When he heard about what happened – you know, he snaps. You know Scott. He chased her out of the building and she never came back, so at least I got a little bit of my payback that way (laughs).
Moving on to a happier topic: What is your favorite memory from your days as Sunny in WWE?
I don’t know if I have a No. 1 favorite because there was just so many, but one of my favorite things to do – and people are shocked when I say it – is that I loved getting slopped [by the Godwins]. It was so much fun. First of all, it got me on magazine covers and so much TV time. How can you not like getting all that press? And it was just a lot of fun. I got to throw it in the crowd. People who hated me at that time got faces of slop. It was all over me and it was on the floor, so I would pretend I was slipping on it and grab handfuls and – boom – hit people in the front row (laughs). So that was my little revenge on them for spitting on me or cursing me out or whatever. But it was a blast. I did it every night on the road for like three nights. It was one of the highlights of my career, and people are always like, “Really?” I’m like, “Yeah.” You couldn’t turn on the TV without seeing a replay of me getting slopped. Of course, managing The Legion of Doom was awesome. That was really, really cool. I loved hosting all the TV shows because it was basically my show – I was on the whole show for the whole hour. There’s so much stuff. I had a lot of fun years there.
It’s public knowledge that you have a history with Shawn Michaels. What was it like seeing him at the Raw 15th anniversary show after all these years?
That was one of the things I was very nervous about, because I haven’t seen him since I left that company. I didn’t know what to expect. I was in catering and all of a sudden someone taps me on my shoulder, I turn around and it’s him. Of course, I was like a deer in the headlights (laughs). And he hugs me, kisses me on the cheek, said how great I looked. I tried to say the same thing about him without lying too much because he aged quite a bit since I saw him last (laughs). I was like, “Oh, you look the same.” And I’m thinking to myself, “No you don’t.” (laughs) But he was very cool. He showed me pictures of his kids. He was in great spirits that night and he was a sweetheart. That’s probably what I was most nervous about going in there that night, and he totally made it easy.
Shawn had a reputation for being a prima donna in the ’90s. Do you think he is a different person today?
He seems a lot more centered and at ease with himself than he did in the past. Yeah, he was a prima donna; he was a [jerk] to just about everybody except for his very close friends, and me for about nine months. In December, he did seem like he had a different attitude. He seemed like a happier, more content person. Back in the ’90s, he was so good, he was the best that we had in the company, but he was still very insecure about himself. And that’s why he thought he had to be a [jerk] to everybody, to kind of uphold his image. I do believe he’s changed over time. I think it did a lot of good for him to settle down, get married and have kids.
You talked a little bit about the Diva Search girls earlier. What is your overall impression of the current women’s wrestling scene in WWE and TNA?
First of all, I think if you have more than five girls at one time it’s way too much. It takes all the specialness out of it. When I was [in WWE], there were three of us, and every time you saw one of us it meant something. Now, there’s a girl in practically every single segment on the show. To have a women’s match on every show I think is just too much. I’m not a fan of women’s wrestling. Just leave that part to the guys. When you’ve got 19-20 girls on the roster, it’s redundant and it’s not a special thing. To be honest with you, a lot of girls that came from the Diva Search, I can’t tell one from the next. I don’t know what their names are; all I know is that they came from the Diva Search at some point.
As far as TNA girls go, I think they do have a crop of girls that have a lot more talent than the WWE girls because they have been schooled in the business. They either went to wrestling schools or they studied the business before they got into it, and they actually have respect for it and they want to be in the business because they like wrestling. The Divas want to be in the business because they want the quick paycheck. You have to remember, at the very first Diva Search, there wasn’t one girl who knew who Kamala was. How do you not know Kamala? I watched that and I swear I couldn’t watch another Diva Search segment because I was so [ticked] off.
Is there one guy in either company that you would like to manage if you came back?
The one person I always said I wanted to manage before I was completely done was Ric Flair, and I don’t think that’s going to happen now. Who knows if he’s ever going to get in the ring again. He’ll probably end up being like Terry Funk and have eight retirements and eight comebacks and wrestle until he’s 70 (laughs). That remains to be seen, but I’d like to do that just so I can say I walked the aisle with the “Nature Boy.” As far as anybody else, I love Randy Orton. I’m a big fan of his, and I was from the first time I saw him. I would like to work with him.
Have you thought at all about writing a book?
I have actually started writing one. It’s probably going to take about a year because I’ve got 18 years of stuff to write about. I’m probably going to have two volumes – nine years in Volume I and nine years in Volume II. It would be too hard to condense 18 years of stories into a 300-page book. So I have started writing, but it’s not as easy as it sounds. To try to recall everything from like 1991 and 1994, it’s insane. But it’s definitely going to be a good one. It’s not going to be the kind of book that bashes people or tries to ruin marriages or break up families or anything like that. It’s going to be a fun book. I’m telling road stories and funny ribs that happened. There are so many Davey Boy and Owen Hart stories that it’s ridiculous. I traveled on the road with them so much, and with all the ribs that they pulled on me, that I pulled on them and that we all pulled on other people, that’s like a book in itself (laughs).
For the latest news on Tammy Sytch, visit www.tammysytchonline.com and www.myspace.com/tammysytch.
Photo credit: Bob Mulrenin
It’s fitting that Mark Henry is Extreme Championship Wrestling champion. After all, his 12-year career in WWE has been all about extremes.
During that span, Henry has been given big pushes and he also has fallen out of favor and been sent down to a developmental territory. Along the way, he’s portrayed a soft-spoken babyface; the comedic, over-sexed “Sexual Chocolate;” a member of a militant faction; and, currently, a monster heel.
I spoke with Henry, who defends the ECW title against Matt Hardy Sunday at the SummerSlam pay-per-view, about his career yesterday in a telephone interview.
You’ve had your share of ups and downs in WWE. What has been your mind-set through all the peaks and valleys, and what drove you to persevere?
I’ve just matured a lot. I don’t just do everything for me no more. I’ve got a little boy who will be 3 years old in October. I always wanted to increase my notoriety and elevate my legacy, so that when he gets older he’ll have a standard to live by and be proud of. I may be one of the very few people on earth that have won a championship in everything they’ve ever done. I know Earvin Johnson won a high school championship; he won a college championship; and he won a pro championship. I’ve done the same thing, just in different sports. It’s like going from being Tiger Woods to being Roger Federer.
What are all the fields in which you've won championships?
Weight lifting, powerlifting, strongman and now wrestling.
What does it mean to you to be the ECW champion and the top guy on one of the three brands?
It means a lot to me because it means that the show is going to be dictated by me. The main events are going to be judged by how many people watch. If you can’t make people tune in, then believe me, you will not be champion long. So far our ratings have been going up. We’re consistently around 1.5. People are tuning in to see what’s going to happen next. It’s new; it’s fresh. They believe the fact that a guy 6-4, 400 pounds is going to beat people’s brains out. To take this title out of my hands, it’s going to be a real knockdown, bloody fight.
What are your thoughts on “Sexual Chocolate” and some of the story lines you were involved in, such as the relationship with Mae Young?
“Sexual Chocolate” is an extension of my personality. I have a good sense of humor. I’m not Martin Lawrence by any means. I’m a little too country to be Chris Rock. But I fancy myself as being somebody with a good sense of humor. Being able to go out every day and clown and act up and not get put in an institution for it – for me to be talking about it 10 years later means that I was a success and that I did what I was supposed to do. Rightfully so, on the box set of the greatest Raws of all time, it’s on there.
How often do you get asked about “the hand?”
All the time. And I tell people that “the hand” is fine.
Turning to a more serious subject, was the Michael Hayes incident resolved to your satisfaction, and what is your current relationship with him?
I have a good relationship with Michael Hayes. Michael Hayes made a mistake; everybody makes mistakes. I forgave Michael. I’m a Christian and I forgive people. That’s the mature thing to do. But we have to be responsible for our actions, and I think that he learned something. If he regresses, then he’ll know because I’ll say something. I’ve always stood up for my rights. I’ve always stood up for myself and I’ve stood up for other people when they didn’t know I stood up for them. Michael Hayes by far is one of the most creative people that ever wrestled and ever been in administration. But he is not above humanity, and anybody else. So, we have to police ourselves and hope for the best.
I interviewed you about 10 years ago and you talked about how you like to write poetry. Do you still do that?
All the time. Hopefully at some point I’ll have a book come out and people will get to see what’s in my mind. From the outside, everybody has an idea of what they think a person is and they’re usually wrong. I’m a primary example of that. People see me and they see a big, dark-skinned, intimidating human being, which I can be if I need to be that, but I’m also refined, educated, articulate, smart and a whole lot of other adjectives that I like to use to pat myself on the back, but I’m not going to do it because we don’t have enough time.
What is it like to be working with Tony Atlas? Were you a fan of his growing up?
Oh, I was a big Tony Atlas fan. I think I tried to throw my first dropkick because of Tony – and almost broke my shoulder. Tony was one of the icons for young black boys that wanted to grow up and be in wrestling and have somebody to identify with. During the time, Tony Atlas and other men didn’t have the opportunity in the industry that I have and other talented wrestlers have today. I feel like having him with me is us giving back. Just sitting in the car driving from one town to the next, listening to the stories that he tells makes you realize how good things are now compared to back then. I want to do everything I can to further that and to put an example out there, like Ernie Ladd did for me.
You’ve got an ECW title match with Matt Hardy this Sunday at SummerSlam. For people who are on the fence about buying this pay-per-view, why should they?
This is going to be from top to bottom one of the greatest SummerSlams in history. They should have waited to do the anthology so they could have put this one on. As far as Matt Hardy goes, it’s unfortunate for Matt that his talent and speed and his ability and the longevity that he’s had in this business will not be able to help him, because he’s facing somebody that’s been in just as long as he has who’s not as fast or a high flyer, but is the total antithesis of that. I am the strongest man on the planet, and if I can get my hands on him, it’s going to be over. He should keep moving.
Photo courtesy of WWE
By the time Ted DiBiase came to WWE in 1987, he already had been a top guy in several territories and was regarded as one of the best workers in the business. It was his “Million Dollar Man” character in WWE, however, that made DiBiase a superstar.
DiBiase brilliantly portrayed one of wrestling’s most memorable heel characters and was involved in one of the most famous angles of all-time — Andre The Giant selling the WWE title to DiBiase after an evil twin referee helped Andre defeat Hulk Hogan for the belt in the most-watched match in professional wrestling history (33 million viewers on NBC).
DiBiase, 54, who retired 15 years ago due to a serious neck injury and went on to become an ordained minister, writes about his in- and out-of-the-ring exploits in his recently released autobiography, Ted DiBiase: The Million Dollar Man.
I spoke briefly with DiBiase in a phone interview last week.
You wrote an autobiography about 10 years ago. Why did you decide to do another one at this point?
The first book, if you look at it, was really more about my spiritual journey, and a number of people have said, “We’d really like you to tell us what your wrestling life was like,” because that book didn’t focus on my wrestling life. Being part of the Legends program in WWE, they approached me as well. They said, “Gosh, Ted, you did a book 10 years ago but we didn’t push that book and it really wasn’t about your career, so why don’t we do another one. I said, “Great. Let’s do it.”
In the book, you give insight into what wrestling was like during the territorial days. What would you say are the advantages that guys who came through that system like yourself have over guys who break into the business now?
It’s the opportunity for experience. The way that you used to learn this trade was you were invited into the fraternity if somebody liked you. There was no wrestling school that you could go and apply for. Somebody had to bring you in because they liked you, and basically that person, whoever that mentor was, would put you in the ring, teach you the basic fundamentals — hammerlock; headlock; this is how you take a hip toss; this is how you take a slam — and then they threw you in the deep end of the pool.
There was a place we used to wrestle in the Panhandle of Texas called the Hereford Bull Barn. It was a little place, but you’re out there in front of a live crowd and you don’t know anything. But you’re in there with a veteran who does know, and you listen. You listen to him and you listen to the people, and you do that night after night after night. You do that and you become a student of the business and you observe the other guys — I used to watch all the guys that were making the money.
I remember when I was in Mid-South and they used to tape interviews every Wednesday morning, and I wasn’t required to go to the interviews because I was a rookie and I wasn’t cutting any interviews — I was a curtain jerker. But I went every Wednesday anyway because I was going to watch those guys and I was going to glean from them. I knew what their program was. I would watch those angles take place and then I would listen to the interviews that they’d cut so I could learn. So you had to be a student of the business.
The opportunity that afforded guys was that you could go to some little territory and you could learn how to work there, and then you could go to the next territory and the next territory. You could go to three of four territories, and then the first time you went into New York, nobody knew who you were. That’s no available anymore, so the kids today are at a disadvantage because they don’t have that opportunity to learn it that way. They’re thrown into the mix before they’re really ready and they have to learn it as they go.
What is one thing you would like people who read the book to come away with?
I would say respect for my industry. The one thing I have dealt with my entire life – I grew up in wrestling – is that I had to listen to all the kids at school say, “Aw, that phony stuff.” And they never realized. Even today – I do this ministry that I am a part of out in Phoenix, and I go to this athletes conference every summer, and there’s this big fundraising banquet where they honor a lot of great athletes – they’ve honored Deion Sanders and Tom Landry. But this one guy named Joe Jackson – he’s a very good friend of mine and he played football for the Minnesota Vikings – he introduced me and he says, “Now to a not-so-real sport.” And I got up there this year and I said, “Joe, let me tell you something, pal. There are a lot of guys that did what you did, and when they got through doing what you did, then they tried wrestling thinking, ‘Well, I’m going to walk in here and this should be easy.’ They made it playing football, but they couldn’t hang here.”
It’s like going to boot camp and people don’t realize it. The WWE produces five hours of television a week, 11 pay-per-views a year [editor’s note: the actual number is 14]. If you watched the last WrestleMania, the Super Bowl could not compete with the pageantry. I just want people to come away with an understanding that what we do takes a great deal of effort, a lot of skill and it’s a lot of hard work. I want people to come away with a greater appreciation for what wrestling is.
You talk in the book about almost being chosen to be NWA world champion and later almost being the WWE champion. When you look back at your career, are there any regrets that you never got those title runs?
Not really. Yes, it would be nice because I loved the business and grew up in it to be able to say, “Yes, I was the NWA world champion, and yes, I was the WWE world champion.” That would be nice to say. But in reality, titles in wrestling are props. If you don’t need the prop, obviously, you’re a better wrestler. Instead of going with the WWE title like they had actually talked about, they created this Million Dollar title for me to have my own belt. To me, it made sense. It was like, “Look at this arrogant so-and-so. He pays no respect to the actual title so he’s going to create his own.” It just fit the character, and that’s what we’re all in this business for – to make money. So, no, no regrets.
You wrote that you discouraged your sons from following in your footsteps just the way your father, Iron Mike DiBiase, discouraged you. Now that all three of your sons have followed you into the business, what advice have you given them? And what are your impressions so far of Ted Jr. on TV?
The reason that I discouraged my boys as I was discouraged was not because of wrestling itself. The reason I discouraged them as a father was from having lived the lifestyle – like my father did – and understanding the hardships that come along with it. It’s not the wrestling itself. It’s the 90 percent divorce rate. It’s all the guys that died of drug and alcohol abuse. And again, to the credit of the WWE, the reason that as a father I have now given my sons the blessing to pursue wrestling is because of all the things that are now available to the talent that weren’t 20 years ago – the drug-testing policy, the work schedule.
Vince [McMahon] built this huge company. But anytime you build a company, you have to crawl before you can walk and you have to walk before you can run. We basically paved the path for these kids today. We would go out for weeks at a time without seeing home. These guys now work four days a week and they go home three every week, unless they go on a European tour. It’s more conducive to having a family and living a more normal life. My early impressions of my son are good, and I’m trying to be as unbiased as I can. But I heard it from all of my friends. I’d get a call from Michael Hayes or Arn Anderson or Steve Keirn, who’s running the school, and they said, “Ted, the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The kid’s got it. And if he keeps going in the direction he’s going, then the sky’s the limit.” Early on, he’s handled himself very well and I’m very proud.
Wrestling fans probably most remember Terri Runnels as Marlena, the glamorous, cigar-smoking companion of then-husband Dustin “Goldust” Runnels. The former WWE diva, who left the company in 2004 to spend more time with her daughter, has now turned her attention to philanthropy. She has launched a national contest called Make The World Write, in which entrants are asked to write an essay detailing how they would make the world a better place. The winner will receive Runnels’ home in Gainesville, Fla., and $100,000 to apply to their idea.
I spoke with the former WWE diva about the contest and her wrestling career last week:
How did the Make The World Write contest originate? Was this something that you came up with? 
No, I cannot take credit for this. I was going to sell my home in Gainesville. … You know how depressed the market is right now. And so I heard about this lady doing this contest where she was giving away her home through an essay contest, and the entry fee was $200. Her minimum number was 6,000-something [entrants]. But her essay was about your favorite story about your pet. And while I have pets that I love dearly, I just felt like that was all about her and it didn’t help anyone else. So I thought, I’m going to do the same thing, but I’m going to change it to where it helps other people. I kind of copied her in doing the same exact idea: $200 entry fee; essay contest; my minimum is 5,000 [entrants]. But instead of writing about your pet or something silly like that, my thing is, how would you make the world a better place?
When I started thinking about it, I thought, “What is the worst case scenario?” Somebody spends $200, which is less than they would spend on pay-per-views for wrestling throughout the year. But in doing that, they actually have to put pen to paper and think about what they would do to make the world a better place. As you and I both know, when you put pen to paper, you’re more likely to follow through with an idea than if you just sit and think about it. … If this works, I would love to do it annually, so people could look forward to this sort of thing every single year. I called my attorney and said, “Please make sure everything is on the up and up. I don’t want anything to be illegal.” Even though this is not a lottery of a raffle, when you think of it in terms of the odds, one in 5,000 people will win a home and $100,000 to put toward whatever their essay is about. And you can keep the home — you can live in it, you can rent it out, you can keep it as a vacation home, you can sell it, whatever you want to do. The winner doesn’t have to put 100 percent of the $100,000 toward whatever their essay was about. God forbid they had $25,000 in debt. I would love for them to take care of that and then put something toward something that would help other people.
You mentioned doing this contest annually. Obviously, you can’t give your house away every year. How would it work?
If this is a success, what I would love to do is purchase a home every year and do the exact same thing. Yes, I need to benefit my own family by paying off my home and then buying another property because we want to live in another state, but in the years to come, I would love to have a lower minimum and just have people look forward to it and be thinking for an entire year about how they want the world to be a better place. I think it’s a positive every way you look at it, whether it’s only this year or whether it’s an annual event.
Will you be judging the essays yourself?
I have a panel of judges who will give me their 10 finalists, and then from the finalists, I choose.
What are some other causes and charities that you’ve been involved in over the years?
From the moment I was in the business eons ago — which, I hate to say that because it tells everyone how old I am — that was the one thing that made me feel like I was doing something good. Even though I loved live TV and doing my job, when there was a child with the Make A Wish Foundation or when they said, “We need you to go to these children’s hospitals and visit these children,” that was heart-wrenching. To see 30 children who are either terminally ill and days away from death, or children who are battling cancer or a disease in which they might or might not make it, you leave there and you’re ripped apar, because I have a child and I can only fathom how it would feel for my child to be sitting in a hospital dying. The thing that made me feel so great about it was to know that I could give a smile or some tiny bright spot to that child or their family in their horrible situation.
There have been many things — The Make A Wish Foundation, the Boys and Girls Club. There’s something called Taylor Fit for Kids, which deals with helping our horrendous obesity issue in the United States right now. You can go on my Web site, which is www.theterrirunnels.com, and I encourage people to be involved in any of the things that I have been involved in, or if there are things that you are passionate about, just do something. I know this sounds silly, but to give $5, most people say my $5 won’t matter. But when you think about it, $5 times a million people — what if those million people all said that it doesn’t matter. Wow, we’ve just lost $5 million. On whatever level you can, try to help those around you. Start in your own home — treat the people that you live with with respect, dignity and love. Move from your own home to your neighborhood, to your community, to your county, to your city, to your state, and then it should move across the world. I’m on a soapbox! (laughs)
Before moving on to some questions about your wrestling career, is there anything else that you wanted to bring out about Make The World Write?
I’ve had people tell me lately, “I want to be a part of this contest but I’m scared because I got horrible grades in school in writing and my grammar’s not great.” I don’t want people to be frightened off by the word “essay” or “cover letter.” I want them to just think in terms of truly how they want to make the world a better place. Just put your ideas on a piece of paper. The cover letter, all that is is your name, address, phone number and e-mail address so that we can get in touch with you if you win.
You left WWE in 2004. What have you been up to the past four years?
My funny answer is sitting on the couch eating bon-bons. My honest answer is that I took about a year-and-half off to be mommy and not get on an airplane, just be able to take my daughter [Dakota] to school, fix her breakfast and lunch; no more live-in nannies. Mommy is mommy and that was it. … I’ve been working on a couple of books that have nothing to do with wrestling, but they have to do with being a mommy. One is a very anecdotal advice book and one is a photographically-driven book with very little text to it. A friend of mine owns a premium cigar company called Rocky Patel Premium Cigars, and I worked for him a little bit as his national marketing manager But it ended up where he had me flying out more than WWE, so I told him, “I cannot do this anymore.”
After that I bought a child developmental soccer program called SoccerTots, and I am in the process of selling that, not because I don’t believe in it 100 percent, but because I just do not enjoy running a business on a day-to-day level. I would highly recommend anyone buying into the franchise. The first [wrestling] appearance I did in eons was for my dear friend, Hermie Sadler [in Virginia]. There were two shows. His daughter is autistic, and it’s great to do anything that benefits the autismspeaks.org foundation. I actually did two shows.
At Hermie Sadler’s show, were you doing anything in the ring or was it a personal appearance?
I managed Jerry “The King” Lawler both nights. I did what I used to do as a manager: Ididn’t take a bump; just a little distraction here and there. It was a blast. And I went to my first NASCAR race. Hermie has been begging me for seven years to go to a race. I’m hooked. … I actually want to do a show called Racing 101, where I go behind the scenes, and for all the newbies like myself, I’m able to be their mouthpiece and ask the questions and have the questions answered like on Speed Channel, ESPN, whatever. So I’m working on that right now.
Will you be doing more independent shows in the future?
It’s something where I’m making choices. It depends on whether it’s a friend of mine or someone I’m doing a favor for, if it’s something that is worth my while and lucrative. I love going out and seeing the fans. That is something I’ve missed terribly. So that’s really cool to do again. In the next month and a half, I have several appearances, and that’s also on my Web site. It’s fun to be back out there and talk to people who respect and appreciate the business.
I know that Hermie Sadler has a relationship with TNA. Do you have any desire to work in TNA or perhaps return to WWE?
I would love to do something again, but my only thing is that I don’t want to wrestle. It would have to be in a hosting/managing/valet/interview capacity. I have no problems taking a bump. When I would get to TV and Vince [McMahon] would say, “OK, Big Show is going to goozle you and throw you and you’re going to land on someone in the second row,” I’d be like, “Awesome.” But if he would tell me, “Hey Terri, you’ve got a bikini paddle on the pole match with another girl,” nothing against the other girls, because I so respect them and what they’ve trained to do, but I just cannot stand having an actual wrestling match. It’s just not for me. I love the big bump. I was the first female to be slammed through a table by The Dudleys — loved that, was stoked. Granted, it didn’t feel well the day after or the day after that or the day after that, but I was still very excited to do that bump.
When you left WWE, I read that you requested your release. Are you on good terms with them?
Yes. It was a mutual meeting of the minds.
Do you have a favorite angle that you were involved in during your time in WWE?
There was something that actually never came to fruition that I would love to have seen played out. I thought it would have been the greatest angle. Dustin and I were doing an angle with Brian Pillman where Brian won me for 30 days. What was going to happen at the end of the 30 days was that Dustin and I were going to do a big renewing of our vows at the pay-per-view. So I had the wedding dress and this whole thing, and the way it was to be, in the midst of the renewal of the vows the preacher would say, “Is there anyone here who thinks this union should not take place?” and Brian was going to come out and say, “Me.” He and Dustin were going to get into a melee. My big thing was that I really wanted one or both of them to have massive blood. I think that would have been perfect for the passion of the story. And at some point, instead of protecting Dustin, I was going to jump on top of Brian, getting blood all over my wedding dress so it was a very visual, very dramatic thing. And then I was going to say to Dustin, “In these 30 days, I fell in love with Brian and I have to leave you, I can’t remarry you, I can’t stay married to you, I have to go.” Then I was going to go with Brian.
As you know, the sad news, Brian passed away that day. That was actually on my birthday, which is so sad to me. That was the one angle that to this day I just wonder how great it would have been. We ended up going in another direction — with Luna and Dustin. The only other thing I really regretted was when we did the whole D-Lo Brown/Val Venis angle where I said I was pregnant, and I was thrown off the ring apron and fell and supposedly had a miscarriage. I fought that one tooth and nail with Vince Russo. And he was like, “Terri, you know it’s all an act.” I’m like, “I know Vince, but my daughter’s getting to the age know where she’s going to go to school and they’re going to say, ‘Oh, I didn’t know your mommy was having another baby’ or ‘your baby brother or sister died.’ That’s the kind of thing that I just thought went over the top and was too much for me.
After Dustin and his father , Dusty Rhodes, were reunited after being estranged, I remember they did some interviews together on TV in which they blamed their split on you. What was that like for you to see that on television?
I got very passionate about that because I loved Dustin with all my heart and still do. We talk often and have a great relationship. First of all, Dusty loves his son, but was not the greatest father. And I don’t blame that on him, I blame it more on the era that Dusty grew up in and the fact that Dusty was constantly on the road. Dusty’s way of showing love back then was to bring toys and gifts when he came through town, as opposed to spending quality time. He is an incredible father to [kids from his second marriage] and a supreme grandfather to Dakota. They text back and forth if they’re not calling back and forth constantly. I love and appreciate the grandfather he is to our child, but I’m sure if Dustin was being honest and not being prodded or trying to make a dramatic scene, he would say, “Terri has always been fair with me. She’s been a good mom. She’s been respectful of me. She loves me. And she never told me not to speak with my father.”
Those are issues that have been boiling since he was a child. I think that as they have gotten older they have worked on those, and that’s a great thing. But the last thing I would ever do is to say to Dustin, “Don’t speak to your father.” What I would say is, Dustin deserved better than he got. Dusty would give him a pat on the back at the bar after a match in front of everyone and say, “I love you, son,” but in private when it was just us, it was hard for him to say, “You know what, son? I am so proud of you,” or “you did a great job.” It was more for show. But I think Dusty’s changed a lot, so it makes me proud of Dusty. I think both of those gentleman know better than to say that it was me keeping them away. I wanted them to have a great relationship.
How much do you watch wrestling now, and what do you think of the current product?
I don’t watch that often. If Dustin calls Dakota and says, “Hey, I’m going to be on tonight and it’s going to be funny,” or “I want you to watch it,” we’ll tune in. The analogy that I have, and it’s been said by me time and time again, on wrestling and females is: If you make a cake and you have no icing on that cake — the cake are the men, the icing would be the females — it’s good and you enjoy it, but it’s bland. You need something more. If you have a cake and you have as much icing as you do cake, you just wanna go, “Yuck, that’s too much.” I think the mistake that Vince has made with the women in our industry is to go, “Well if one, or two or three women are great, then 12 should be awesome.” I think you have to have the majority be the males and the minority be the females and have that nice layer of icing, so that when you bite into the cake it’s just the perfect complement. Saying that, I give the new girls absolute credit in terms of being beautiful and being good workers. They’re working their butts off. I think all that’s awesome; I just think it’s a little bit much in terms of the ratio of men to women.
Handout photo
Here is the transcribed version of the brief interview I conducted with former WWE star Jake “The Snake” Roberts last week at the Eastern Wrestling Alliance show in Parkville.
There are so many wrestling autobiographies out there now, but I would think your story would be as interesting as any of them. Are you working on a book?
I just couldn’t come up with a book deal, because these book people are [odd]. Instead of having people who don’t know me take what I say and write it the way they want to, I think what I’m going to do is put it on video and sell it on the Internet in installments. The people that buy the installments and survive the first 10 or 12 chapters, they may get a couple chapters free. I got a lot to tell. It’s going to be very unusual, because it’s going to be about me. [Publishing companies] always say, “We may have to enhance this and enhance that.” What do they mean by enhance? They’re changing the facts. I’m not about bull. It’ll be the truth.
How many independent shows are you doing these days?
One or two a week. Going out in front of people always feels good. It’s sad that in reality, you cannot go out there and do the same things you could do 25 years ago – and neither do I wish to. … I’ll never retire. It’s my passion. I hope to die in that ring.
I know that you were involved on the creative side of the business at one time in WWE. Is that something you would like to do again either in WWE or TNA?
I would love to. I just don’t know if that’s possible. I have a tremendous amount to give yet. How I’m going to give it, I don’t know. Because I’m not sure at this stage of my sobriety if I would be strong enough to accept the changes and the enhancements that they would put on what I write. I have a real hard time not calling a spade a spade. If I think you’re changing something I’ve done into [garbage], I take it personally. Why? Because it’s my baby. Power in the hand of an idiot is not a good thing, and there are a lot of idiots out there writing television.
This is kind of a philosophical question. Many of your peers have died within the past decade. As self-destructive as your lifestyle has been, why do you think you’re still here?
I think that a lot of guys died because they gave up on life. They gave up because their dream had been taken away – their notoriety, their ability to provide for their families, their love. I’m not a quitter. I used to get horribly angry at God. I was like, “What’s wrong, I’m not good enough for you to take?” I mean there’s Curt [Hennig], Bossman, Hawk. The list goes on and on. They’re all men I love. It’s not fair when you feel like you’ve been left behind. It ripped my guts out when Sherri Martel went. Sherri and I were lovers – 33 years ago. I remember being at her funeral and I said something that upset some people. I said, ‘Sherri, I thought we were good friends, but you weren’t. Good friends don’t leave friends behind.” I’m still here because God wants me to be here. I’m still here because Vince McMahon helped me to still be here.
When you wrestled Steve Austin at the King of the Ring pay-per-view in 1996 and he cut the famous “Austin 3:16 promo” after the match, did you have any idea that he was going to become as big as he did?
Truth be known, Vince McMahon said that Steve Austin would never be anything more than second or third match. I said, “No, that’s your next megastar.” He said, “No way.” I said, “Watch.” God, I hate being right. You know, they had Austin 3:16, but they missed the boat. What happened to Austin’s 10 commandments? Thou shalt not kill unless thou are [ticked off]. Thou shalt honor thy mother and father unless they’re [jerks]. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife unless she’s really hot. Thou shalt not steal unless you want it. I enjoyed helping guys like Steve Austin get there. Helping Ted DiBiase get there. Helping The Road Warriors get there. Helping Undertaker get there. Helping Rick Martel get there. Helping Shawn Michaels get there – OK, I was wrong on one.
Uh-oh, guess I wore the wrong shirt (I had on a Shawn Michaels shirt).
(Laughs) They have those in men’s sizes? I thought you were wearing it for heat.
To watch video of Roberts talking about how he credits Vince McMahon with saving his life, click here .
Larry Zbyszko has been a world champion, the Rookie of the Year and a popular color commentator during a career in professional wrestling that has spanned four decades. He always will be most known, however, as the man who turned on Bruno Sammartino. Those who were around in 1980 when Zbyszko betrayed his mentor still talk about it as one of wrestling’s greatest angles and hottest feuds.
Zbyszko goes into detail about his career-making angle with wrestling’s “Living Legend” – including the intrigue that went on behind the scenes – as well as other experiences that he has had in the business in his recently released autobiography, Adventures in Larryland.
I spoke with Zbyszko about the book and other topics last week:
You reveal in your book that you came up with the idea of turning on Bruno and you pitched it to him. You had been in the business about six years at that point. If he hadn’t agreed to the angle, how do you think your career would have turned out?
You know, that’s a good question. If that angle didn’t happen back in those days, with the way the politics were – the McMahons were into big giant ugly guys plus other weird things, and I was never a butt-kisser – I don’t even know if I would have been in the wrestling business much longer. That made my career and it was easy after that. But if it wasn’t for that, who knows? I might have been a pro golfer.
Since Bruno broke you into the business and took you under his wing, was it difficult to play his antagonist when the time came?
It wasn’t all that difficult. I was a sharp guy. Like I said in the book, I kept my mouth shut and my ears open in those days. Bruno taught me a lot, and not only Bruno, but all the slick, old pros like [Chief Jay] Strongbow and [Gorilla] Monsoon. And by the time I saw this possibility in 1980, I was in the business five-six years or whatever, so I was pretty well-groomed by then and I was kind of ready for it.
Do you still keep in touch with Bruno?
Over the years things have kind of softened up and I talk to him once in a while. It was kind of emotional for years, but it worked out good. He’s a hell of a guy. He’s still my hero.
Was there ever any real-life heat between the two of you?
No, there wasn’t any real-life heat, but there were some years where we didn’t talk. It really wasn’t heat between me and Bruno; I think it was just more of a time when Bruno got very frustrated with the whole wrestling business and the direction it was going. But time kind of takes care of all that stuff.
When you wrestled Bruno at Shea Stadium, you said in the book that the two of you barely got a chance to speak to each other before the match. Was that a situation in which you knew the finish and then called the match in the ring? If so, is that kind of a lost art form today?
Back then you rarely if ever saw your opponent, because normally when you went to buildings, they had two separate dressing rooms – it was a very secretive kind of thing. Even in the Shea Stadium days, it was two separate dugouts. Plus, Bruno was such a big star, and the McMahons and the newspapers and everybody were so busy kissing his butt that I didn’t even see the guy. But it was different back then. Everything was just kind of done ad-lib in the ring.
Right, whereas now you’ll see guys in the back scripting their matches move for move.
It’s ridiculous. They go over a 20-minute for two hours (laughs). It’s because they can’t get any drama. It is a lost art.
In Hulk Hogan’s autobiography, he claims the reason for the big crowd at Shea Stadium in 1980 was his match against Andre The Giant, not your cage match against Bruno. Those of us who are old enough certainly don’t remember it that way. What are your thoughts on what Hogan said?
I don’t like to knock anybody, but I think the world, after what’s been happening lately, has found out Hulk Hogan’s true colors. He’s buried himself. Here’s an idiot who is trying to get a reality show based on the fact that his kid paralyzed somebody. Hogan is just not a good guy and I’m glad the world finally got to see it. No. 1, I doubt seriously that Hogan even wrote the book. It’s probably one of [Vince] McMahon’s ghost-written publications, so who knows if Hogan even said that or if it was more McMahon propaganda. But if Hogan did say it, he’s full of crap.
Anybody that knows anything about it knows back in those days, before Hogan became Hogan and broke out because he was so big and gassed up to the gills on steroids and got some movies roles, he was just Andre The Giant’s jabroni. He was on the third or fourth match with Andre, and Andre beat the snot out of him. Hogan used to follow me around the Garden crying, asking me for advice, because even though the McMahons hated me for holding them up [for 10 percent of the gross ticket sales during a dispute with Vince McMahon Sr. in 1980], I was kind of a hero to the boys.
You were the only WWWF heel during that time who didn’t have one of the big three (Lou Albano, Fred Blassie and The Grand Wizard) as a manager. Was that your call not to have a manager?
I didn’t go into the manager thing at the time because I really didn’t need one for what we pulled off. It wouldn’t have made all that much sense and it wasn’t necessary. If I would have stayed in the WWWF, then I probably would have wound up with one of them. But the way everything worked out with the McMahons, I didn’t stay there and I never went back.
When Vince McMahon Jr. started going national in the mid-1980s, I always wondered why you never returned. Do you attribute you’re not being invited back to when you held up the McMahons in 1980?
It was a combination of a couple things. They might have held a little bit of a grudge, because it got pretty personal at the time with [Vince McMahon] Junior crying on the phone – even though that was a ploy of promoters, the way they do things. But in the early ’80s right after that, which was kind of the time the old school went away and new things were happening, McMahon Jr. took over when his dad died. I wasn’t Junior’s cup of tea because he was into men’s bodies, and all he was promoting were guys like The Ultimate Warrior, Hulk Hogan, “Macho Man” Randy Savage and Zeus. He was into the guys who were so steroided up that they were breaking and dying, but he didn’t care. That’s the look he wanted. I wasn’t that cup of tea.
You state clearly in the book that you never took steroids. Being around in that era and seeing muscled-up guys that perhaps weren’t as talented as you getting big pushes, were you ever tempted to take them?
No, it wasn’t something I ever considered. I had such a name and reputation from the Bruno feud that I just didn’t need it. At 240 pounds for most of my career, I was plenty big enough. If I had gained another 30 pounds and my arms got bigger, it wouldn’t have made me any more money. And I’m scared to death of needles, so that took care of that.
Unlike a lot of wrestling autobiographies, you wrote your book without a co-author or ghostwriter. What was your thought process in writing the book?
I’m kind of old-fashioned. If you write a book, you should write the book. I had time to do it and it didn’t make sense to have someone else write it. It wasn’t a matter of not knowing the story – I knew exactly what happened. Plus, I wanted to put me into it. I’ve been lucky and I’m really good with the gift of gab, so writing is just a way of telling the story. And like I said, I had the time to do it, so I kind of got into it. I actually could have finished it a couple years earlier, but a couple years ago, everybody had a book. There were 50 books out there. So, I took a break and slowed it down a little bit. But I wanted it to be me and not some ghostwriter that would have messed it up and then I would have freaked out about it. I’m a perfectionist.
Your book definitely is one of the funnier ones I have read. The Haystacks Calhoun on the airplane story is hilarious. Did you set out to make the book as funny as it turned out?
People keep saying, “The book is so funny, I’m wetting my pants.” I didn’t think it was that funny when I wrote it. I put some humor in it and stuff, but I really didn’t think it was that funny. Actually, there’s a [film] company called Shaftesbury that’s interested in making a movie about it. You can’t believe it until you see it, but they’re interested. I think it could really be a cool flick. They’re kind of interested about the time, because wrestling was so different than it is today. When Bruno fell down bleeding, people in the audience died. I was actually shot at – I didn’t put that in the book because I didn’t want to give anyone ideas – and I was stabbed. There were riots every night. It was intense back then. It’s just so different today – and it’s too bad.
The focus in the book is on your wrestling career, with very little about your life outside of wrestling except for passing references, such as having a psychotic girlfriend. Did you just not want to reveal much about your personal life?
My idea was to write it like a dream-come-true story. I was like most little kids who see something on television and we want to grow up to be like our hero. That’s the story. If I got into some of the personal stuff – which, some of it was more outrageous than the wrestling life – I think it would have taken away from the story about the wrestling dream. Needless to say, now that people have gotten an idea from the book about the wrestling end, believe me, I’m talking to the publisher and I’m really thinking about writing another one that would involve a lot of personal stuff that went on during the same time as the wrestling stuff.
Now, when I write the wild and ridiculous more personal side, people can relate to the time it was going on with the things I was known for in the ring. It was crazy. I don’t know if I’m just a big believer in love or if I’m just an idiot. But I guess we’re all idiots because we keep getting married, right? So we’ll see what happens with the publisher. The sales are going great for this one, and I can write another one and make it different. But I don’t want to embarrass myself too bad (laughs).
Speaking of your personal life, you are married to the daughter of former AWA promoter Verne Gagne. These days, Triple H is a polarizing figure among the fans and his peers because he is Vince McMahon’s son-in-law. When you were in the AWA, did the boys look at you differently because you were Verne’s son-in-law?
I don’t think the boys looked at me differently, not anybody that knew me. There were always a couple jealous guys, like [Ric] Flair. You know, there’s always somebody that says something, but who cares? They actually wanted me to take the [AWA] championship belt a couple years before I did, and I switched it around and we put it on Curt Hennig, and that was before me and Kathy were ever an item. I already had a name and a reputation, so it wasn’t like Triple H coming along and getting rid of Chyna, the steroided-up lady. It was kind of a different story with him.
You mentioned Flair being jealous. What’s the story with that?
The fans might have one idea of Flair, but I know the truth. If he didn’t owe the IRS a million dollars and the promoters kept bailing him out, he probably wouldn’t have been around so long. Back in 1980 when I was doing the big Bruno thing, Flair was trying to get his break down in the South. In those days, all the publicity came out of the Northeast – the magazines and all that. He was jealous that I was getting all the big press and he was hardly getting anything. So he made some comments to the boys about, “Oh, Zbyszko ain’t nothing, it’s just Bruno. I’m really great.” I sent messages back through the grapevine that said, “Well, you just tell Flair that if he ever wants to find out about who’s great, let me know.” And he’s been kind of leery of me ever since, because he’s Flair – he’s an idiot.
But then there came a time in WCW when, because we’d been around 20 years and we never wrestled each other, they wanted us to wrestle. It would have been a great thing for the fans, which is my No. 1 priority in business. And Flair was afraid to get in the ring. He thought I was going to stretch him and embarrass him and all that because of what he said years ago, which I wouldn’t have. I look at the business as a business to make money and give the fans what they want. If you don’t give the fans what they want, it’s not good business. That’s kind of why wrestling is stale today.
So, what did you think of Ric Flair’s retirement and farewell?
I didn’t pay any attention to the retirement. It’s all hype and gaga. I never watch any of the WWE nonsense, but I was at a friend’s restaurant and they had WrestleMania on there. Remember in the book how I used to set the over-under on how many clotheslines there would be in a match? Well, when he and Shawn Michaels came out at WrestleMania, I set the over-under on chest slaps at 40. I’ll tell you what, I haven’t lost my touch. If you watch the match and count them, between Michaels and Flair, there was exactly 40 chest slaps, which is about all [Flair] can do now anyway.
It comes across in your book that you have a great mind for the business.
I had great teachers.
And you obviously learned your lessons well. Since you have that knowledge, do you have any interest in working as a backstage agent or producer?
I have a lot of interest in doing stuff, but I wouldn’t be an agent or a producer. What I would like to do is take control of someone’s creative end, because they really need help. Wrestling is really in a situation where they’re losing a big part of their audience to the Ultimate Fighting. What wrestling is doing – and I’m speaking for the fans – is stupid. Instead of watching wrestling and athletes, all you’re doing for an hour or more out of each two-hour show is watching ridiculous, stupid skits. And most of the stupid skits are about some broad with plastic boobs, and the guys are all becoming morons. It’s just so stupid.
And at the same time, they’re all complaining that they’re ratings are down, their buy rates are down. WrestleMania didn’t do nearly what they thought it would; McMahon’s stock dropped a whole bunch after that. They all keep crying the blues, but they don’t change it. They just keep doing stupid skits and pushing the same guys who they like that the fans don’t care about that much. It’s kind of like what I touched on in the book: The egos are running it for what they want, but they’re not giving the fans what they want, and the fans are turning it off.
Another aspect of the business that has changed since when you were in your prime is how promos are done. You came up with your own stuff, while today the guys are reciting words from a script. What do you think of that change?
It’s absolutely horrible. That’s why it sucks. No. 1, you’ve got writers in there who have no business in professional wrestling. Back in the old days, if a guy was smart enough to do a great interview without a script, he was a talent and you could push him and make money with him. Now they got a bunch of writers who have no business being in the business, and they’re writing all this stuff for guys who have no talent to think of their own stuff. So, they’re pushing a bunch of guys who shouldn’t be pushed and having a bunch of writers who shouldn’t be there, and they’re wondering why the business is stale. You figure that out.
You’ve worked for TNA in the past. Are there any plans in the works for you to back there?
I’d love to do some stuff with TNA. We got the book on their Web site and we’re going to push it on there. I was on camera with them for a few years and then took a little time off, but I’d love to go back on camera and I’d love to help them out behind the scenes. There’s a lot of politics, but they’re good people. The Carters are very nice people. Everybody that works there is working real hard, but in my opinion, they just need a little help. If you watch TNA, unfortunately they’re caught up in the wrestling mind-set that Junior set up. TNA has got it in their mind that, “Well, we’ve got a wrestling show. We’ve got to do all these stupid skits just like Vince does.” Hopefully, they’ll change. They have a chance. We’ll see what happens.
Any final thoughts?
I just appreciate that you like the book, and all the feedback I’ve got from everybody that read it, everybody loves it. I was concerned about the feedback because I was raised on making the fans happy. I’m just thrilled, and I hope everybody that buys the book enjoys it. It came from the heart, and if they like it, I’m happy.
To watch a video of Larry Zbyszko’s famous heel turn on Bruno Sammartino in 1980, click here.
When former WCW star Daffney appeared on TNA Impact last week, it was the first time she had been on a prime time cable wrestling show since 2001. Initially playing the role of David Flair’s stalker, the gothic scream queen was one of the more unique and entertaining characters during the last years of WCW.
I spoke to Daffney earlier this week to discuss what she’s been doing since WCW went down, her match against Awesome Kong on Impact, her time in a WWE developmental territory and her thoughts on the current state of women’s wrestling.
It’s been a while since we’ve seen you on TV before last Thursday’s Impact. Where have you been wrestling?
I recently moved to Charlotte. I’m from Atlanta, so I wrestled all over the Southeast, and now I’m all around the Carolinas. I was very lucky to have had the first-ever women’s singles match at PWT in California. I consider that a great honor and I had a lot of fun. I think that federation is wonderful. I wrestled a lot in Texas at Anarchy Championship Wrestling. Probably the greatest honor I have is wrestling with SHIMMER Women Athletes. If you want to see women’s wrestling, the cream of the crop, watch SHIMMER.
What are your thoughts on the state of women's wrestling? Specifically, what do you think of WWE's women's division and TNA's women's division?
I was very, very happy to hear that TNA was going to form a women’s division last fall. It was so nice to see a lot of my close friends get recruited and join the women’s division in TNA and be able to be on national television. It seems as though they took women that have worked hard and have a true passion for being wrestler, and have given them an opportunity to shine. WWE seems to me to have gone back to the state they were at when their women’s division was on top. They’re making their divas really learn how to work. They are focusing on the women that started off in the indies that worked their way up. They’re giving them the belt and making them shine. I’m really happy to see that it’s kind of come back around. For a while it was focusing on the diva search, but now it seems to me that they’re focusing more on the wrestling and the girls that worked their way up through wrestling. Like Mickie James – I’ve known her for years.
You two were roommates at one time, correct?
Yeah, but we were friends before that and we still are. Beth [Phoenix] was in SHIMMER before I was. Melina – she tried out at Tough Enough and then worked her way up. Victoria – she was signed to developmental and wanted to wrestle. So it’s really nice to see that they’re focusing more on the wrestling and trying to teach the girls that were in the diva search to focus more on wrestling and less on being divas.
What is your opinion of the bikini models and fitness models who got into the business by winning contests?
Well, I’m not really one to speak because I got into it through acting. But then I went to the Power Plant [WCW’s training center] on my own on my off days and worked my way into earning my spot. If you get discovered that way, [it’s OK as long as] you work hard and you show a true passion and you’re not there for the fame and the fortune but for true love of the sport, and there’s no complaining and no “I broke a nail” and “I don’t want to do this.” There are weird strokes of luck of how you get into the business. I think it’s all in the attitude and the dedication that you put into it once you’ve gotten your spot.
When you and the other women in WCW were being trained by Madusa, she had a reputation for being very hard on all of you. What was that training like?
That was way after I had started my training. I was at the Power Plant and I was lucky enough that Molly Holly [Mona in WCW] was there, so as soon as I started to show up on my own, I think she saw that I really wanted to learn. So she took me aside and just started showing me things. And then she moved back home, so I was the only girl. I was in there training with all the guys. I was still going to TV early and getting in the ring with Crowbar and Shane Helms. Terry Taylor was really nice and got in there with me if I had a spot in the match. I would just get in there and anybody that would show me something, I would just try to learn. So, when the time came that Vince Russo said that one day a week we’re flying [the women] to the Power Plant and you have to learn, I was kind of used to the drill. Yes, she was hard on us because you had girls there who really had no experience and training, like a lot of the Nitro Gils that were professional dancers. It was difficult to train with girls that didn’t have much experience, and they were kind of thrown into it – poor things, it was kind of thrown at them all at once, so it was kind of shocking.
When I talked to Madusa back then about the training, she said that she sent some of the girls home in tears. I’m guessing that you weren’t one of them?
No, I wasn’t. I don’t want to call them a wuss because they went home crying, because it’s tough. There have been 400-pound football players that didn’t last a day. So those girls tried. But Madusa is a tough lady and she was really tough on us because it’s a tough business.
You mentioned Melina earlier. What did you think of her screaming gimmick in WWE? Did you see that as gimmick infringement?
[Laughs]. I used to get so many e-mails: “Who do you think screams louder, you or Melina?” My answer used to always be: “Who’s Melina?” Actually, she’s a very close friend of mine now, and I’ve lost my voice, so I really can’t scream like that anymore. I stole her entrance, and she can scream if she wants.
Wow, you not screaming is like Ric Flair not doing his “Whooo!”
I don’t really do the crazy thing anymore. I’m different than your everyday average girl, but … I like to be taken more seriously as a wrestler. People are like, “Oh, we want to hire you as a manger.” And I’m like, “Well, do you want me to have a singles match?” They’re like, “Oh, do you wrestle?” Yeah, I’ve been wrestling now for eight years. When I get in the ring, I take my matches very seriously. There’s a little bit of screaming going on, but it’s not the crazy screaming for no reason and laughing maniacally and doing that sort of thing. My character has taken on a little more serious role.
I think we saw that more serious aspect during your match with Awesome Kong last week on Impact. You came out with the mouth guard and the gloves like you were prepared to fight.
Yeah, that was the point. You’re there to try to win $25,000 and the belt and you’re fighting Kong; it’s such a challenge and you’re trying to protect yourself. Yeah, I wanted to be taken seriously. I’ve heard from so many people, “Well, we didn’t like the scream.” I wanted to show that I don’t really do that anymore. I don’t think people believe that, so I’m like, “Well, just watch and see.” And I spoke in a normal voice, which I didn’t do for years.
Had you ever worked with Kong before? Were you prepared for how stiff she works?
Yes, I have worked her before. To be honest with you, she is a complete professional. I don’t know if stiff is the right word. You don’t leave a match with her going, “Oh my God, I can’t walk” or “I’m hurt.” She is a very talented woman. I think that every woman that she gets in the ring with, if given the opportunity to do what she wants to do, she elevates the person. Me being fortunate enough to know how to work her, I was prepared for how she works.
You had a WWE developmental deal in Ohio Valley Wrestling about five years ago. What was that experience like and why do you think it didn't lead to a WWE contract?
Yes, it was in 2003. The experience for me was not very positive because it was right around that time that they let all the women workers go. It was right when the WWE women’s division was at the top of their game and then it seemed to me that they decided to go in another direction. Gail Kim got let go; Molly Holly got let go; Jackie got let go; Ivory got let go. They let all the girls that could work go. And then it was diva search, diva search, diva search. I was there to be a wrestler, and I was not really given a chance to show that I could wrestle in the developmental program. I was put in a managerial role with talent that was not used to having a manager, that I had no chemistry with and that wasn’t really interested in creating chemistry with me. There are just some people that you work with that you don’t click with.
I would make suggestions. I really wanted to be with, at the time he was Carly Colon, and my character was Lucy. They were dead set against me being Daffney. I wanted to do the Lucy-Ricky Ricardo thing. And I was like [speaking in an exaggerated Hispanic accent]: “Do the Hispanic accent like this. Talk like this.” I pitched that. They shot it down, and next thing you know he’s on TV and he’s Carlito. And then I pitched [an idea for] Mark Magnus. He’s Italian, but I was like, “Man, you look Arab. You should do an Arab thing. I’ve got dark hair. They should put me in a burka and I should be called Dottie. It should be like the Macho Man-Miss Liz thing. No heat between the countries, but heat as far as you being mean to me. And then one day I rip off the burka.” Next thing you know, I get fired and then he’s Muhammad Hassan. It’s not like I didn’t try. It’s not like I didn’t pitch everything under the sun because I was so unhappy with what they gave me creatively. That’s why it was not a good experience. Their answer was: "We don’t have anything for you creatively.” And then everything that I pitched creatively was done without me.
That must have been frustrating.
Yes, and that’s why I was out of the business for a little while.
What made you want to get back in?
To prove myself to myself, because OVW pretty much sucked the life out of me and made me feel like I wasn’t any good. All the fans in WCW that would always say, “Oh, we like your character, we’re such a big fan of your work,” that was all taken away from me. I just did a few shows and I got such positive responses from people saying that it was so good to see me again that I was like, “Oh I’ll do a little bit more.” And then it just kind of snowballed. So it turned from wanting to prove myself to see if I could do it to wanting to do it for the fans.
What memories stand out from your time in WCW?
Getting schoolboy-ed by Ric Flair for him to become the world heavyweight champion for the 15th time. Then immediately afterward, taking the figure-four. Taking a piledriver from Terry Funk in England. Becoming the second woman to be cruiserweight champion. Just being part of the company and the whole experience. Being on the road – it was all just a very surreal experience.
I don’t recall the Ric Flair thing. How was it that he pinned you to win the title?
You know, suspend your disbelief. There was a bunch of us in the ring, and I don’t remember who he was fighting, but it was like, “He’s going to schoolboy you, 1-2-3, he wins the belt. He pins you, but it’s still a big schmazz in the ring and then he grabs your foot and puts you in the figure-four.” I’m like, “OK, cool.” At the time you’re green and you don’t really realize.
What are your goals in the business moving forward?
I guess just to ride the wave for as long as possible. Women’s careers are a little shorter than the guys, but I just try to do every show I can, try to keep booked pretty much every weekend.
Well, I know that you have a loyal fan base that was happy to see you on the TNA show last week.
It was real nice when I did Impact to get a lot of people saying, “Hey, it was so cool to see you; hadn’t seen you on TV in years.” It made me feel really, really good. My ODFs – Original Daf Fanatics – are true and loyal. Like I said, why did I get back in? Because of them.
Photo courtesy of Shannon Spruill
I’ve been interviewing pro wrestlers for well over a decade, and almost every one has been a “shoot.” Yesterday, however, I conducted a phone interview with Santino Marella, and it was one of the rare occasions when the subject did the entire interview in character. From the moment he greeted me in his exaggerated Italian accent, I knew I was in store for a fun conversation. Just keep in mind as you’re reading his responses that he is saying it in his “Santino Marella voice.”
I’m a big fan of Santino’s Casa on wwe.com. Do you pick the topics for the segment? And do you write the material or do you collaborate with writers?
I don’t pick the topics. I work with some writers, but we work together and they give me some freedom.
Has there been any talk of you bringing Santino’s Casa to TV as a regular segment?
There are some – what do you call it? – preliminary talks, but I guess they they want to see how the Casa develops and evolves, and maybe one day you’re going to see Santino’s Pit or something.
Speaking of Santino’s Pit, what it’s been like working with Roddy Piper, and what’s going to happen with this Cousin Sal?
You see, I was a Hulkamaniac growing up, so I know what Rodney the Piper is capable of, OK? And I was also a fan of Mr. T. So, although I respect Roddy Piper for his legendary accomplishments, he’s always been on the other side of the court, so to speak. Now, this Cousin Loser Sal – is this a joke for me? I’m a world class athlete. I beat Umaga in the past. This guy is like swatting a mosquito. But I’m not going to knock him off quickly or make him submit quickly. This is absolutely a lesson. I’m sending a lesson to Hollywood: You stay there, and we are going stay here and come there! Basically, this is going to be legal torture. He’s going to have to change his panties when I’m finished.
You obviously have great comedic timing. Do you have any background in comedy or are you just naturally funny?
People always told me when I was growing up that, “You are so funny person; you should be in movies and comedy and all this.” When the teacher in class tells you to stop being a class clown, there’s no job for this – ha, I guess there is.
I know that you have an MMA background and that you did a shootfighter gimmick when you were in developmental. Was it hard to make the transition from that type of character to a comedic character?
Not really, because there is a dichotomy within Santino Marella. Santino Marella can pretty much destroy anyone he meets. But there’s also that comedy component. So, at this particular time, I’m doing this component. Hopefully, one day the two can become one, and then I’ll be more dangerous. I’ll still be entertaining and pretty much be the best thing ever next to sliced bread – and I don’t mean Brian Kendrick’s finishing move. Because that’s called Sliced Bread – did you know that?
Sliced Bread No. 2, right?
Oh, it’s No. 2? Maybe you know more than me (laughs).
You mentioned your character becoming more dangerous. Do you really see that happening? Because I think the character would be more over if the character was more of a threat in the ring.
I think that’s just a natural evolution, because the more popular a character becomes, people want to see him competing for something worth competing for. In order to do that, they must allow my real ability to choke people, armlock people, leglock people and smash people on their heads. It must – this is a good word – permeate through the character. You like that word – permeate?
Yes, that’s a good word. Luckily, I have my dictionary here. Looking back at your WWE debut, it seemed like the idea was to create an instant babyface star with your win over Umaga. Why do you think that didn’t really get over?
Let me put it to you this way, Kevin. People like chocolate bars, right? What’s your favorite chocolate bar?
Uh, I guess I’m partial to Snickers.
OK, so I say to you, “Kevin, wake up, time to eat a Snickers. Oh, you like it? Have another Snickers, Kevin. Hey, don’t slow down with those Snickers – have three more.” Kevin, how long is it going to take before you don’t like Snickers?
I guess I’d get sick of them pretty quickly.
There you go. You can’t force-feed somebody. They must desire Snickers. Currently, you like Snickers because it’s your choice to go eat one. So now that Santino Marella is people’s choice to go indulge in him, it’s more popular.
I think you had the best gimmick in the company – being paired up with Maria. What was it like working with her?
Maria was a very nice chapter. We appreciate the opportunity to be together; we had lots of fun. She has very soft skin and smells nice. But, at the end of the day, Maria is just a chick. You know, I love Maria, but for people like me – I’m not sure about you, Kevin – they come and go like nothing. I am the true meaning of international playboy.
Can you talk about the infamous incident in which Jim Cornette slapped you because he thought you were laughing at an inappropriate time when you were in OVW?
Jim Cornette is a loser. Jim Cornette is an insecure person. And controversy creates cash, so maybe one day, Jim Cornette, I’m going to wrap that cheap tennis racquet around you neck. I’d like to have a cage match with Jim Cornette. I’ll put that out on the Worldwide Web right now. Jim Cornette is a misunderstanding person. Look, I’m watching wrestling in the audience – make it very clear – just in the audience. My daughter is sitting in front of me. Boogeyman turns to us, [and] I think, “OK, he’s going to do me a favor because maybe he knows I’m a student in this OVW school, so he’s going to scare my daughter for me, and treat my daughter to an experience.” So I’m happy. If your daughter is going to get an experience like this, you’re going to be happy as a father, right?
Sure, I would be.
Of course, there you go. So you are just as guilty as me then, Kevin, so Jim Cornette would have slapped you, too. Do you deserve it? No, because you are a good person. So anyway, this loser took advantage of a situation because he knew I would not hit him back because I was a student. He freaked out and he slapped me several times. I did nothing because I think to myself: “I am not American citizen. I don’t have green card. If I punch this guy, shatter his face the way my punches can actually do, then I’m going to be kicked out of the country.” You can’t just show up somewhere and start breaking skulls, Kevin. It doesn’t work like that. But now that I’m in a position to challenge him to a cage match, I make an official challenge to Jim Cornette for the first time, right now, right here.
OK, we’ll see if he answers.
Of course not. He’s a coward, Kevin.
You have a pretty interesting story as to how you got into pro wrestling. Can you talk about that?
I was under the understanding that you go to Japan, and you do good and then people notice you and bring you to America. So I went there with my vast judo background and my fighting ability. I have to really stress that I am a very, very serious fighter – it’s not comedy. So, I go there and I beat up lots of people, things are going great. I’m doing MMA and working for a good company called Battlearts. I don’t realize that you have to leave the country every 90 days. So, I made one mistake. I don’t leave the country for 94 days, and they say, “I’m sorry. You can’t come back.” At first it was for five years, but the law changed and it was for one year. So, here you are a young man, all the talent in the galaxy, trying to make it in this business and all of a sudden your plans just do a 180-degree turn. So, I have to reformulate my game plan, and we went to United States for school and it worked out pretty good.
There is more of an MMA influence in pro wrestling these days. Do you see the business continuing to move in that direction?
As a business, no. Some of the in-ring techniques? Probably. I saw one match where CM Punk was fighting like from the guard. It’s happening. The more it does, the better for me, because that’s where I come from.
The One Night Stand pay-per-view show is coming up Sunday. You aren’t on that show, correct?
Currently, I am actually not booked for that show. But I will be watching that show very carefully because there are some matches that are of particular interest to me, namely Randy Orton and Triple H. It’s no mistake that Randy Orton is my friend. So the more power he has, the better for Santino Marella. There’s just going to be some good fights. I want to see the girls. That’s going to be a good one, too.
Santino, I can honestly say this is one of the most entertaining interviews I’ve ever done.
Thank you, Kevin. It was a real pleasure for you to talk to me.
Photo courtesy of WWE
My interview with Scott Steiner a few weeks ago elicited more response than any of the Q&A's I’ve posted since starting the blog a little more than a year ago. In particular, Steiner’s unflattering comments about Ric Flair, Triple H and Shawn Michaels touched a nerve with readers. Some applauded the controversial Steiner for speaking his mind, while others accused him of being bitter and jealous.
In this follow-up interview, Steiner clarifies some of his statements and responds to his critics.
A number of people who saw your comments about Ric Flair, Triple H and Shawn Michaels said that you were bitter and jealous of their careers. What is your response?
I have nothing to be bitter about. I’ve made a lot of money, and more importantly, I’ve saved a lot of money. I’m not bitter. I love this business and that’s why I’m still in it. I’m just telling you the way it is, man. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
There’s no way I’m jealous, because there’s no way I would want their careers. For one thing, I couldn’t be Triple H because there’s no way I could [have sex] with Chyna. And he was doing that before she even got face reconstruction. There has only been two people in the history of the Howard Stern Show where they had them go to the bathroom to make sure [they were women] – Chyna and Nicole Bass. And she was on the show after the face reconstruction.
Look at Triple H’s career before he started (having sex with) the boss’ daughter: He lost to Ultimate Warrior in 30 seconds; he was losing to guys like Alex Wright in WCW; he lost to one of the Godwins in a pig slop match. And then all of a sudden he’s [having sex with] the boss’ daughter and he’s the toughest guy in the world. I’m not the only guy who thinks that. It’s no secret what Kurt Angle thought of Triple H and Shawn Michaels. Here’s one story I got from Kurt: Triple H was trying to block Kurt Angle from winning the [WWE] world title. He said in a meeting, “I think Kurt Angle’s too small.” And Jerry Brisco stood up and said, “Well, what do you think would happen if you guys fought for real?” And he sat down, shut his mouth and they ran with it.
Shawn Michaels is one of those wise-cracking guys who would say a smart comment to you, but then if you face him, he would run and cry somewhere. That’s exactly what happened one time when he was cutting down the Harris Brothers – I think it was Don Harris. Finally, he had enough. He waited until Shawn Michaels got in the room, kicked everybody out of the room, shut the door, grabbed him by the neck and was going to pound the [heck] out of him. A tear came down his eye. He turned around, started laughing and walked out. That is Shawn Michaels in a nutshell.
As for Ric Flair, I could go on and on. I was there one time when we were doing TV tapings at Center Stage [in Atlanta], and Rick Rude followed Flair around for about an hour and just totally blistered him. He told him he looked like hell and he was friends with the booker, totally blistering him. Finally, Flair had enough, left and did not come back to Center Stage until after the TV taping started. People think I’m making this stuff up.
Wahoo McDaniel could not stand him. He told me one time Blackjack Mulligan knocked Flair out with one punch. Jim Crockett at one time owned the NWA. I always liked David and Jackie Crockett, but I only met Jim Crockett once or twice, and everyone thought he was a [jerk]. But Flair had him as the best man in his wedding. Who has the promoter as his best man? Wahoo said back in the day when there were territories all around the country, one of the ways the boys made sure they wouldn’t get fired and wouldn’t have to worry about a job from week to week, is they would borrow money from the promoter. That way the promoter couldn’t fire them because he wanted to get his money out of them. Wahoo said that Flair had tax problems and Jim Crockett bailed him out, so there’s no way he was going to get rid of Ric Flair. Wahoo did not like him, did not like his wife – he called her the rat from Raleigh. The stories he would tell me – he just blistered him. And Flair had no idea.
When I was in WWE, it was right after Andre The Giant had died. We were doing a Raw in New Jersey. I was talking to Rene Goulet, who was an agent then. Everybody was pretty bummed out because everybody loved Andre – I only met him once, so I didn’t know him that well. Flair came by and did his usual, “Wooo!” I swear to God, Rene was so [angry], he wanted to punch him out. He said Flair lived like two hours from where Andre was buried in North Carolina. He said, “That piece of garbage. He wouldn’t drive two hours to pay his respects to Andre.” He wanted to kill him. I could go on and on.
I remember a world title match back in 1991 between you and Flair at a Clash of the Champions. What was it like working a match with him? Did you have a different opinion of him back then?
No. I always knew he was a piece of garbage. Flair never drew when I was in the NWA and WCW. Flair had all of his friends booking him on top and we were not drawing. People can say what they want, but I was there and we did not draw nothing. They may have papered the crowd to make it look good for a Clash or a pay-per-view, but we did not draw. I can say for a fact that Flair at that time did not draw a dime. And they say he was the greatest? If you want an honest opinion, you ask somebody who they would rather be on the card with – Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair. If they don’t say Hulk Hogan, they’re out of their minds. At least you knew when you were on a Hulk Hogan card you were going to get paid. Thank God in WCW we had guaranteed contracts. If we had been paid by the houses that we were drawing, we would have starved.
Here’s the deal with that Clash of the Champions. Things had gotten so bad, and they wanted to put the belt on somebody else. They actually wanted to make me the world champion. I had just beaten Ric Flair in a gauntlet match to set up for the Clash of the Champions. So we’re going over the match backstage, and he was like, “Yeah, I got this, I got that,” and then he went out there and sandbagged. It was one of the worst matches I ever had. And I was wondering, “What was that?” The match I had with him in the gauntlet was 10 times better. So I went in the back and I was disappointed. Then I heard a couple weeks later, he was telling people in the office that I got tired, I wasn’t ready for the spot. And to tell you the truth, I really didn’t want to be the world champion. At the time, I still wanted to team with my brother. About a month later, I was wrestling him in Philadelphia, and I gave him nothing. He tried to hit me with a chair, and I grabbed the chair and hit him with it. I just beat the crap out of him. I came back after our match and waited for him right at the door, waiting for him to say something. If he would have said something I would have clocked him one, but he didn’t say nothing. He put his head down and walked back to his dressing room. He’s a punk, man.
Flair was messed up on so many different levels. One time in Baltimore, Sting was going to beat Flair for the belt. So Flair pulled Sting aside, and Sting thinks he’s going to tell him something about the match or give him some big knowledge, and this is what he said to him, and Sting could not believe it. Flair said, “When you get married, it’s a big deal. When you have kids, it’s a big deal. But there’s nothing like winning the world title.” Sting came back and grabbed my brother and I and Lex [Luger], and said, “You’re not going to believe what Flair just told me.” That’s how messed up he was.
Here’s a story that Gary Hart told me. He was managing Muta at the time, and they were going to go in a different direction with Muta. Basically, they were thinking about getting rid of Gary Hart, and he was hurt by it. Back in the day, if you were NWA champion, different territories had to give you their vote to keep you as champion. Gary at one point was in Texas. So Flair at that time came by, whined and dined him and kissed his [butt]. So, later when they were thinking about firing Gary, he said to me, “I went up to him now to see if he could help me out, and that piece of [garbage] said he couldn’t do nothing for me.” Two or three weeks later, he was fired. That’s the way Flair was. He used you, and then he cut your throat.
Another thing that people took issue with was when you said that Triple H and Shawn Michaels were the only guys in WWE who respected Flair. What about guys like Batista, Chris Jericho and Big Show – who was crying during Flair’s Hall of Fame speech and during his farewell on Raw – and others?
Trust me, if it was a different time, Flair would cut their throats in a second, but he’s not in that position anymore. When Flair was in Evolution, he knew he needed those guys to keep his spot, so he helped them out. So I believe Batista has respect for him, because he helped him out. As far as Big Show, I think he’s a crier. He cried when Hulk Hogan retired, too. Can’t take him to a sad movie, either (laughs).
I think some people believe that you don’t respect anybody. Are there any guys in the business that you do have respect for?
The main guy you have to have respect for is Hogan. Hogan was the man. I remember when I was [in WWE], Chief Jay Strongbow used to call him the golden goose. He always said he could lay a golden egg. That was the respect that Hogan had – because he drew. The greatest is the one who draws the money. Would you rather be a 16-time world champion like Flair or would you rather be like Bruno, who had a 10-year run like he had and always sold out Madison Square Garden? That’s respect, man.
You have to respect the guys that have set attendance records and drew a lot of money – like “Stone Cold” Steve Austin. And, of course, The Rock, not only for what he’s done in wrestling, but what he’s doing right now in the movies, which is unprecedented, where a wrestler has been so successful in Hollywood. One of the guys that I most respect is Kurt Angle. When he left WWE, I think a lot of people thought he was the best wrestler there. Not only that, but he was an Olympic champion. I think a lot of people don’t realize how hard it is to be an Olympic champion. Wrestlers in general I respect, because it’s a hard life.
One of your biggest gripes with Flair is that he was cutthroat in his backstage politics. A lot of people say that Hogan was far worse when it came to playing politics.
Oh, God. No. Flair was 10 times worse, and Hogan was a man about it. Hogan, if he didn’t like you, he wouldn’t [BS] you; he just wouldn’t talk to you. He wasn’t like these guys that come up to you and be all “ha-ha” and tell you you’re the greatest and then go behind closed doors and stab you in the back. Hogan had the best contract because he had creative control, and everybody knew that. But he had that respect man, and you got to give it to him. Hogan was the master. He went up there and actually convinced Vince, and he beat Triple H for the belt. I loved it. You know it had to [tick] off Triple H. And it was the worst match ever. It happened right after Hogan had that great match with The Rock at WrestleMania. And then Triple H wrestled him [a month] later and it was horrible. And they say Triple H is such a great worker. Yeah, right.
“Big Poppa Pump” Scott Steiner has never been one to hold back when he’s asked for his opinion on something or someone. During a telephone interview on Wednesday, Steiner discussed his stints in WWE and WCW, his near-death experience in Puerto Rico last year and what he thinks about Ric Flair, Triple H and Shawn Michaels.
Steiner will participate in a three-way match against TNA world champion Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle in the main event of the Sacrifice pay-per-view Sunday.
You’ve had your share of injuries over the years. How are you feeling physically these days?
For the most part I feel pretty good. I’m starting to get back in pretty good shape, [but] not as great as I was at one time. I think ever since I had the accident in Puerto Rico, there was so much trauma to my body that I haven’t really been able to get as lean as I’d like. But it’s starting to come around. There was just so much swelling that it was hard to come back from. And there’s still a little bit of pain. My muscle back there doesn’t work entirely correctly because my lat was sliced in half. Other than that, I feel pretty good.
You were talking about the serious trachea injury you suffered in Puerto Rico. Can you take us through that whole experience?
I didn’t realize there was a big problem until later on that night. I got kicked pretty hard in the throat, but I finished the match. I felt like there was bleeding back there, but the EMTs at the building said there was nothing wrong. I actually went back to the hotel. My throat was hurting pretty bad, but I just thought it was swelled up, so I tried to eat some ice cream to bring down the swelling back there, but it didn’t help. Then I tried eating, and I couldn’t eat because it was just so painful for the food to go down. Then I went back up to my hotel room and stayed there for about an hour or so, and then I felt my lungs starting to get heavy and I was having cold chills. Then I started spitting up blood. That’s when I called the ambulance, and they rushed me to the hospital, which was an experience.
I’ve been to jail before, and it was like the gates of the jail at the hospital. There were 20-foot high steel gates and there were armed guards outside the hospital. The opened the door, which creaked, and then they slammed it shut. I walked in there, and there was literally people lined up, bleeding, screaming down the corridors. Nobody was speaking English, and it was kind of freaky. I was actually at the same hospital where Bruiser Brody died. So, I was kind of freaked out. I called a couple of my buddies because I wanted to get out of there. I came in and they took some scans, made me drink some stuff to see what the damage was. That was brutal trying to drink that stuff. They finally found that I did have a torn trachea. The bad part about it was that it was torn in my chest. They told me I had five hours to live. The air that was supposed to be going into my lungs was now going into my skin. That turns poisonous and then you die. I still didn’t really want to believe them. My buddy owns a private jet, and he was going to fly it down. They kind of sensed that I wanted to get out of there. Thank God that didn’t happen, because my lung would have collapsed and they couldn’t have saved me because the trachea was torn. They put me on some sedatives and kind of calmed me down. I was still fighting it and trying to get out of there, because I didn’t want to have surgery in Puerto Rico. Finally, a Puerto Rican doctor came in and calmed me a little bit, but he still sensed that I wanted to leave so he put me under.
The next time I woke up – I had been in an induced coma for two days because the pain would have been so bad – I felt like I was choking. It felt like I was going to drown because I couldn’t get any air. They pulled the ventilator out of my throat and I woke up. They told me they cut through my lat, basically split my ribs in half, and then cut through my lung, sewed my trachea up. Then they put a tube in my lung to drain for two weeks. I just swelled up. I looked brutal, like a 300-pound fat guy. It was the most swelling I ever experienced. I still couldn’t fly, so I had to take a cruise ship home. I went to get on the cruise ship – and no cruise ship. A guy jumped off and committed suicide, so the FBI boarded the ship and had to circle for like 17 hours. So I had to wait an extra day in Puerto Rico, got on a cruise ship, and it took me another week to get home. I took my tour bus back up to where I live, and I tried to recover. I still kind of worried, so I went to a doctor to see if they did everything right, and the doctor shook my hand and said, “You’re lucky to be here. Those doctors saved your life.” That will mess with your mind. I was kind of messed up for three or four months, knowing that I could have been dead.
Has a brush with death changed your outlook on life at all?
Yeah, a little bit. The thing that really messed me up was that one of my best friends had died a month earlier. Life isn’t fair. It definitely makes you look at things a little bit differently. I think I’m pretty much over the fact that I could have been dead, and physically I’m almost there.
Does that whole experience make you never want to go back to Puerto Rico?
Oh, no. The Puerto Rican people and the doctors were great. The nurses were fantastic. Other than the language barrier, they were nice. Here’s one funny story. I told you that I swelled up real bad – and my [testicles] swelled up really bad. I literally had to carry them in my hand to go to the bathroom. Some of the nurses weren’t so easy to look at, but one day, one of the most beautiful nurses I have ever seen walked in. I got up from my wheelchair and turned around, and she was beautiful. I dropped my drawers and I said, “Are my [testicles] supposed to be this big?” She ran out of the room and I never saw her again (laughs).
Switching gears a bit, why do you think your WWE run from several years ago wasn’t as successful as it could have been?
Well, if you look back, everyone from WCW got treated like [garbage], from Goldberg, to Kevin Nash, to Scott Hall. You have to remember – you were there – we beat WWE for 82 weeks straight, and Vince [McMahon] obviously took that personally, so he wanted to bring everyone in that was on top in WCW and bury them. Kevin Nash is supposed to be the best friend of Triple H, but he got the same thing. He won the first title match [against Triple H] by DQ and then lost the second one. I can’t really take it that personally because [Tripe H] treated supposedly his best friend the same way. I’ll tell you right now: People up there are miserable. Both times that I went up there, it was the most screwed-up place I’ve ever been.
Worse than WCW was screwed up?
Oh, my God, it’s not even close. You got Triple H, who’s [sleeping with] the boss’ daughter. She thinks she’s the greatest and he’s the greatest. He’s in the production meetings and the booking meetings. You mark my words: He will break Ric Flair’s record for world championships, because they’re both cut from the same mold – they’re both marks for the belt. It will happen. And it’s bull. I think [The Wrestling Observer’s Dave] Meltzer wrote that every time [Triple H] is the champion, ratings go down, pay-per-view buys go down – it’s a fact. But that’s what happens when you’re [sleeping with] the boss’ daughter. That’s the one thing that was worse going up there the second time – she was involved. And the only reason she’s involved is because she was part of the lucky sperm club. That’s her only qualification.
Scott, please stop sugarcoating it and tell me how you really feel.
(Laughs). There are other people that felt the same way.
Was a run as world champion ever discussed when you went to WWE?
Oh, no. I was there for the same [expletive] that Goldberg and Kevin Nash were.
So did you know that going in?
No, actually I did not expect that. I really didn’t think Vince was that stupid to buy out the competition and then bury it. How stupid is that? That’s his ego. He wanted to own the wrestling world. Well, now he has it and look how it’s done. Ratings are worse than they’ve ever been. They’ll never come back because there’s no competition. I hope TNA becomes a viable contender. If things work out the way it happened with WCW, where finally we went head-to-head live, there’s a possibility it can happen. Trust me, people want to jump. I’m not the only one that sees that Triple H is a [jerk]. If they can jump to a better situation, they will.
You mentioned WCW, and you and I were both there when the doors closed. How did the company go from being so successful to going out of business in such a short time, and who should take the most blame for it?
The people that are the most to blame are the higher-ups in TBS. They despised professional wrestling even though we outdrew basketball, baseball – even when the Braves were in the World Series. And then to sell it for $2.5 million? That’s ridiculous. That right there shows you it was a [screwed] up situation. Everybody wants to blame Eric Bischoff, and they don’t know what they’re talking about. Eric Bischoff was one of the best things to happen to WCW because he brought the pay scale up and he wanted to get rid of the old [expletive] that was going on in WCW. Unfortunately, he didn’t want anything to do with the booking. I had a number of talks with Eric where he said, “Man, I need to find some different bookers. Where do I go?” It was hard to find.
You’ve been very critical of Ric Flair in the past. What are your thoughts on his retirement, his induction into the WWE Hall of Fame and his career overall?
I thought it was a joke how many times he cried. Remember the nWo skit when X-Pac was supposed to be Ric Flair, and every time they asked him a question tears would come down his face because he had a pump of water under his arm pit? Now that comes into play as far as what Ric Flair was like behind closed doors backstage. He was a crybaby. He was a little [wuss], man. And for him to do it during the match and then at the induction ceremony, come on, man. Are you kidding me? That’s the way Ric Flair was.
OK, I’m going to play devil’s advocate. Didn’t I see you cry on TV once?
Yeah, but that was for an angle that I did later on that night, and everybody knew I was faking.
I know. I’m just kidding.
He was doing it because he’s a mark, man. It was unbelievable. That’s how he was in real life. Here’s another story: Ric Flair thought his big Four Horsemen were going to come back again. So, [Curt] Hennig was going to join them, and we were going to wrestle them at a pay-per-view in a cage and it was going to be the Four Horsemen’s triumphant return. But Hennig was going to turn and join the nWo. When they told Ric Flair the finish, his eyes started welling up, and we had to leave the room because we started laughing. We were like, “Look at that little piece of [garbage]. He’s [freaking] crying. I’m not the only one who has that view on Flair. If you talk to Bret Hart, he’ll say the same thing about Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels and Triple H. They're all pieces of [garbage], man.
My first two months in the business was my first indication that Ric Flair was a piece of [garbage]. I broke in with Dick The Bruiser, and I was going to go down to the NWA for a tryout. I told Dick, and he said, “As soon as you get there, you drop your bags in front of Ric Flair and you tell him to carry your bags and you tell him I said so.” I said, “OK, I’ll do it.” I didn’t know anything about ribs back then. On the way home I was riding with “Bulldog” Don Kent, and he said, “No, you can’t do that.” But Dick The Bruiser had no respect for him. He said that’s how he got in the business – carrying guys’ bags. Look at Bruno Sammartino – he has zero respect for Flair. Ole Anderson once slapped David Flair and said, “I’ve got more for your dad if he wants some.” Flair had so much heat with the guys he wrestled with – he had zero respect.
I don’t know if you saw Flair’s farewell address on Raw, but everyone on the roster came out and it sure seemed like they all had a lot of respect for him.
Kevin, it’s written in the show. They have to show up. It’s just like if they tell you to go out there and do a match. They had to go out there and pretend like they respect the guy. The only guys that do are Triple H and Shawn Michaels. They’re three peas in a pod – three guys who couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag. They’re three of the biggest [wusses] that have ever been in the sport. And they’re all friends – imagine that. They all come from the same mold. They were never athletes and the way they got things done was behind closed doors and backstabbing people.
You’re really going to love it when I tell you this: I’m a big Shawn Michaels fan.
Well, I guess if you like to look at gay magazines that he’s posed in and watch him dance around in chaps like one of the Village People or a Chippendale, if you’re a fan, more power to you, baby. Personally, I think he’s a [freaking homosexual].
Well, all right then. Let’s move on. After some bad experiences in WWE and WCW, is wrestling fun again for you now that you’re in TNA?
Yeah. When I left I WWE, I had surgery on my foot. I had drop foot, where my foot was totally paralyzed. I had a tendon transfer and got nine screws in my foot. They broke my foot, took a bone graph from my hip and put it in my foot and put a plate in there. So, now my foot is not 100 percent, but it works, so I can wrestle a lot better than I did.
People were quick to criticize you when you were in WWE and say that you had lost it, but you were in constant pain your whole time there, right?
That’s why I really didn’t care a whole lot up there. When your mind is concentrating on pain 24 hours a day, which I was – I’d like anybody to try and wrestle with one foot. If I moved my foot it would just flop uncontrollably. I had total paralysis down there. And it causes pain up your legs and in your hips. It was hard. I was actually going to retire; I did not want to go up [to WWE]. But they offered me more money than I was asking for, so I took it, thinking that they would want to do business. Shoot, they paid Bill Goldberg more than they paid me just to bury him, too. It made zero sense whatsoever.
Speaking of Goldberg in WWE, there was an infamous segment in which they put a blonde wig on his head. If they had come to you with that blonde wig, what would you have done?
Yeah, I’d have told then to [expletive]. That was one of the first things that Bill did up there. I said, “Bill, that’s brutal. Why’d you do it?” He said, “Oh, they want to expand my character.” But that’s the way that politics work up there. They aren’t trying to expand his character; they’re burying him. But when you first get up there, you don’t think it’s going to happen because you figure they want to do business.
What was it like to team with your brother Rick again last year in TNA?
Oh, it was great. The fans wanted it. The only reason that we went into singles competition was because, as a tag team, we had defeated everybody, we had wrestled everybody. When went up to WWE, we beat everybody. There were no more mountains to climb. That’s when my career took off in a different direction – that’s when I became “Big Poppa Pump.” I’m glad it happened, but when we got back together, people loved to see it. It was good.
You mentioned that you considered retirement several years ago. How many more years do you see yourself wrestling, and what will you do after your career is over?
It’s hard to say. I’ve prepared from Day 1 to get out of the business, and now that it’s so close for me retiring, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. But as long as they want to pay you and keep you around, I hope I can go on long enough to where we start challenging WWE for ratings, one-one-one live. Yeah, [retirement] is close, and I have no idea what I’ll do to fulfill that void. When you do something as long as I have, you obviously love the sport – although not everything about the sport. It will be tough to replace that high that you get because you like to perform and give the fans what they want, or in my case, make the fans hate you. I’ve got a couple options, but I don’t think anything is going to replace wrestling.
You’re wrestling in the main event of the Sacrifice pay-per-view Sunday against Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle. What can fans expect from that match?
A lot of brutality. Everybody knows Kurt Angle. Everybody knows me. Everybody’s getting to know Joe. He’s one of those guys that fans are behind. He has some interesting aspects to his game that Kurt and I don’t have. I think it’s going to be a great match. We’re going to try to put on the best show possible.
I conducted a phone interview with wrestling's "Living Legend," Bruno Sammartino, who talked about what he's been up to lately, his thoughts on the WWE Hall of Fame and his memories of wrestling in Baltimore. Sammartino, 72, also spoke with Sun reporter Childs Walker about drug testing and the state of WWE nearly a year after the Chris Benoit tragedy for an article in Friday's editions of The Sun.
I know that you still work out on a regular basis. What else keeps you busy these days?
There are people interested in doing a movie of my life, and so we have been busy with that. We went back to Europe to show where we hid from the Nazis during the war, so we went back and shot that. And we’ve done a lot of interviews. I also do some personal appearances. I don’t do a whole lot of them because I like to be home. My wife and I, thank God, we’re together. You never can make up all those years when you were on the road, but now that I’m here I will not keep myself busy because I want to be home. I have my sons here and my grandchildren here and I like to spend time with all of them, and I can’t get enough of that.
You know, in my day, it wasn’t like it is today where these athletes make millions of dollars. In my day, you made a good living, and I’m extremely grateful for everything that came my way after coming from Europe, but you didn’t make the big bucks back then. Don’t get me wrong — my wife and I, we’re fine — but if you have the opportunity to go pick up a payday someplace, I don’t turn my back to it. It’s not that I really enjoy the traveling because I despise traveling. The only thing I like about doing autograph shows is that the people who used to be fans are so wonderful. They’ll come over and give such wonderful compliments. Younger people say, “You were a role model for me growing up. My parents love you.” You hear these wonderful comments and it really touches you that people have these positive things to say about you. It makes me feel good that I never did anything negative.
I tell you how seriously I took my role in my life and what I was. I was the world wrestling champion, and I would be in restaurants, and being Italian, especially if I was in an Italian restaurant, a lot of time I’d go for dinner and people would say, “Let’s have a glass of wine.” I would loved to have had a glass of wine, but if it was during the afternoon and there were people there with kids, I would never, never touch it because I was afraid that if they recognized me and saw me drinking, I thought it just wasn’t a positive thing. I wanted people to have a positive image of this wrestling champion. I really tried to conduct myself properly.
During the war, I should have died. I lost a brother and a sister, and I came down with rheumatic fever. After the war, my mom brought me back to our home — what was left of it — and for three years I laid there. My mother swore that she had lost two children and she wasn’t about to lose another one. We had no doctors, no medication — nothing. That’s why when I came to America I was such a skeleton. My mother is the reason why I lived. She did more for me than any doctor could have done to keep me alive. So, that’s another thing that I was very, very strong about when I started to make a name for myself. I was never going to do anything that would have brought shame to my family. I owed too much, and I wanted them to be proud to say that they were Bruno Sammartino’s mother and father.
You have been an outspoken critic on some of the problems in the wrestling industry. Do you think wrestlers need a union, and will that ever happen?
No. I tried to get a union organized in the 60s. It will never happen. They guys that are making money don’t want to do anything to rock the boat with the promoters, and the little guys are afraid to do anything or say anything because they’re afraid of being fired on the spot. That’s the mentality, unfortunately.
I understand that you have no interest in being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. How would you feel if they inducted you without your consent, just because they feel you deserve to be in it?
When they started that Hall of Fame, Vince McMahon was going to show me, so he never considered me to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. What he didn’t expect was the outcry of the fans. They said, “How the heck could you call this a Hall of Fame when Bruno’s name was never even mentioned?” It backfired on him so bad that the following year or two years he didn’t even have a Hall of Fame. He figured let it die down. And then when he started again, again I wasn’t mentioned and again he got bombarded pretty darn big. So then because of all the pressure, he finally got his attorney to call my attorney to try to talk me into coming to their Hall of Fame.
The thing is this: I have been extremely critical of everything that this man has done to wrestling since he took over — extremely critical. I so resent all the vulgarity, the nudity, the profanity and all the ugliness, and I really was outspoken about the drugs going back to 15-20 years ago. And after that, I got away from it all, but still, if anybody ever questioned me, I remained that way. Now, what the heck kind of a guy would I be if, after expressing myself so loud and clear about how I feel about this organization, that then I would accept to be part of them into this Hall of Fame. I’d be the biggest hypocrite there was. And besides that, when fans tell me, “Yeah, but you belong,” I tell them, “OK, if I went in the Hall of Fame, where would you go to see it. You know, baseball has Cooperstown. If I’m in the Hall of Fame, wouldn’t there be a place for you to go and see it and see all these people that have been inducted?” They said, “Uh, I don’t know.” “Yeah, because it doesn’t exist.
McMahon started this — it’s all just a moneymaking thing. He puts out DVDs of the new Hall of Fame inductees, and then his TV goes to 126 countries and they’re selling these DVDs, and they don’t even give these guys anything. I understand when you get inducted into the Hall of Fame, they give you $5,000, and then they go ahead worldwide and sell the DVDs and I don’t think you get anything. So, it’s all a gimmick. It’s nonsense. But more than that, even if it was legit, I simply would never accept for the simple reason of what I’ve told you. Now, your question was, “Well what if they decide to do it whether you like it or not?” Well, I don’t know if there is anything I could do by law — probably not. But I would again be outspoken and make it very clear that this is being done and by no means do I approve of it or want any part of it. I’d want all the fans to know that.
You reportedly had a meeting with Vince McMahon in Pittsburgh a couple years ago to discuss some kind of business arrangement. Were you ever close to an agreement?
I’m glad you brought that up because I want to clear the air with that. [The Wrestling Observer’s Dave] Meltzer said something about how resentful I am, yet I actually met and tried to negotiate a deal with McMahon. Not true. This is the time when I told you we went to Europe to shoot my town, the mountains where we were hiding during the war and all that kind of stuff. Jerry McDevitt, McMahon’s lawyer, was contacted by Marty Lazzaro, my lawyer, because we were doing our story and we needed to use the Civic Arena, which is where I wrestled all those years, and that’s where wrestling still is. It turns out that WWE was going to be there for one of their TV shows. We knew that there was going to be a ring put up for that. Marty contacted the arena and asked if we could use the ring to film for about 15-20 minutes. They gave us the permission to do that, but because it was McMahon’s show, they’d have to get it OK’d with them, too. So that’s when I told Marty that I didn’t want any part of this. He said, “Wait a minute.” He said he heard from McDevitt and it was fine. He said all [McDevitt] wanted was to have a meeting between him and McMahon and Marty and me when we come there to do the filming. I said, “Marty, I’m not interested in meeting with the guy.” Marty said, “What have you got to lose? Please, let’s meet with them. I want to see this guy in person and I want to hear just what they have to say.”
I cannot tell how you how much I didn’t want any part of this, but, for Marty, I said OK. But I said, “Marty, I’m telling you right up front. I’m not interested in anything with these people.” So we met with them. Vince acted like there were never any ill feelings between he and I. He acted very friendly — “Hey, you son of a gun, you look great.” So we went in a room, and somebody said that Vince has nothing but respect for the old-timers. And boy did that give me the opening. That’s when I had to open my mouth and I have no regrets about it. I said, “I’m sorry, but I think you have shown nothing but disrespect for the old-timers. You bring some of the old-timers here, whether it’s Lou Albano or [Killer] Kowalski or Domenic DeNucci or [Baron Mikel] Scicluna or whoever, and whether it’s a big show or a pay-per-view, and you toss these guys $1,000, $1,500 or maybe $2,000 if they’re really lucky. But yet you bring in Mike Tyson and you give him $3.5 million to be outside the ring refereeing a special event. You brought Pete Rose and other athletes from baseball and football and you give them six figures for an appearance. People that have done nothing for this business, and a lot of them look at it as a joke. But those who have given their whole life to this business and never made any real money, what do they get for all those years of banging their bodies up? And a lot of them are physically practically handicapped. They get a bone thrown at them. This is respect for the old-timers? Give me a break.”
I said to Vince: “You could never use me in any way and show the disrespect you have shown for wrestlers. If you and I could ever work out anything, you would have to show me the respect you showed Mike Tyson.” That was my way of slamming the door and having him be the guy to refuse, because I know them. When it comes to wrestlers, they’ll throw you a bone. But if it’s a baseball player, football player or movie star or Mike Tyson, they want to show that they’ll make big-money deals and they’ll give out hundreds of thousands or millions. So at that point, I got up and said, “Whatever you want to discuss, discuss it with Marty, because there is nothing else here for me to talk about.” To those who think that I went there to really have a serious meeting to work something out with him, they couldn’t be more mistaken. I did it to please Marty Lazzaro, but there’s no deal they would have made that I would have come out of there and said, “Hey, great, let’s go for it.”
You were a big favorite in Baltimore for many years. Do you have any special memories of wrestling in Baltimore?
I loved the Baltimore Civic Center. I have nothing but pleasant memories. It was a nice arena, and I was there from the time they opened it. The fans used to make me feel like I was really, really welcome. Not that Baltimore was unique in that. I used to get goose bumps at Madison Square Garden. Every time I went to the ring the place would explode and they would chant my name. Boston was like that. Philadelphia, too. I always loved going to Baltimore because I loved the arena and the whole atmosphere. But also, there was Little Italy and a restaurant called Sabatino’s, and I used to go there and eat after the matches. Sometimes [DeNucci] was with me; a couple times I went with Andre. I always looked forward to that because I would eat around 1 or 2 o’clock in the afternoon because I wanted to be fully digested by the time I went to the ring. But afterwards I would be as hungry as can be. In every city, I had my favorite place. In Baltimore, it was Sabatino’s. You ever hear of it?
Oh, sure, I’ve been there quite a few times.
Is it still there?
It is.
Oh my God. Anyway, Baltimore was great for me because, if it was a Saturday night, for example, it was a short trip to get to Pittsburgh the next day. And like I said, the fans were always extremely great with me, and I knew where to go to get a terrific meal afterwards.
One of your most famous matches took place in Baltimore on April 30, 1977, when you lost the WWWF title to Superstar Billy Graham. What are your thoughts of that night? I know at that point you were looking to slow down your schedule. Was it a relief to finally not be the champion anymore?
Well, it was more than that. Let me tell you what happened. When I was champion for the first eight years, they had me on such a ridiculous schedule. I was hurting from head to toe. I was wrestling every single night. Two Sundays out of the month, I would go to Toronto because I had spent two years there and I had promised [promoter] Frank Tunney — who gave me a break and was a good man — that when I went back to [the WWWF] that I would still come in when he wanted me for the Maple Leaf Gardens. So, two weeks out of the month I would wrestle seven days a week, and the other two weeks I would wrestle six days a week and get to go home on Sunday. I was also making tours to Japan and Australia. [Vince McMahon Sr.] would not run Madison Square Garden without me, so he would always arrange my trips so that I would wrestle in the Garden on Monday and leave Tuesday morning for Japan or Australia. And I’d have to be back for the next Garden show. When I got through with a tour, I wouldn’t even go home. I’d be flying in from Australia or Japan to New York to be there in time for the Garden.
After eight years, I was hurting so bad. And anybody who really knows me will tell you that I will never even take an Aspirin much less anything stronger for the aches and pains. It just reached a point where I told McMahon that my body hurts from head to toe; I can’t train properly because I hurt. I have to get out for a while. I need a layoff from wrestling. Other people said I retired, but I never said I was retiring; I needed to heal. I said to McMahon, “I have to bow out.” I did this on my seventh year. He kept stalling me and stalling me until I got angry and I said, “Vince, if you don’t make arrangements for whoever you want as your next big guy, I am just going to take a plane to Pittsburgh and I’m going to take three, four, five, six months off.” So at that point they went and got a new guy — Ivan Koloff. After I lost the belt to Koloff and I came home, I really took care of myself and I rested real good. Now that I was no longer tied up with the WWWF, all the promoters from everywhere were contacting me and trying to get dates on me because now they didn’t have to go through McMahon. I refused until I really started feeling well. And then I really started loving wrestling again. I would go to St. Louis for [Sam] Muchnick for a match or two, and then I would be off five days. If I went to Indianapolis — Dick The Bruiser and I teamed up there — I would take three shots but then I would take off six, seven days. I would go to Japan for two weeks and then take off two weeks. So I loved it and I was getting a good buck. The promoters all wanted me and they were willing to give me a little bigger percentage of the gate. I was happy because I wasn’t battering my body, I was home a lot and I was making a good buck for that era. I was making as much money as I had been making as the champion.
So, McMahon contacts me and he says, “Bruno, please, we have to have you back, just for a year.” I said, “No, I can’t.” He met me at the airport with his son — Vince Jr. — and he says to me, “Look, Bruno, one year is all we ask until I can get somebody else really ready to take over.” The other part of the deal was that I wouldn’t have to wrestle on the secondary clubs; I would just do all the major clubs. Well, I thought that’s not too bad. That would mean maybe wrestling three times a week, sometimes four. I thought I could handle that for one year. Well, one year went to two, two went to three and on the fourth year I broke my neck. I was scared for a while because I couldn’t feel anything on my left side, but thank God there were some great neurosurgeons here and things started coming back. Anyway, I came back and I said, “I’m done. If I wrestle anymore, it’ll be a shot here and there, but not this title thing.” So I wrestled Billy Graham in Baltimore, and he took the title and became the champion for like nine months. I went on and wrestled here and there, and at the very end of my career, I wrestled Larry Zbyszko. We sold out everywhere. In fact, we had a 1 o’clock show at the Capital Centre in Washington, and then that night we wrestled in Baltimore and we sold both buildings out. In Shea Stadium, we packed the place. So that was a pretty nice way for me to retire. Japan heard I was retiring and they begged me to come and do a farewell tour. They treated me well through the years, so I couldn’t say no. On Oct. 4, 1981, I wrestled at The Meadowlands. Oct. 5, I took a plane for Tokyo, got there on the 6th, which was my 46th birthday, I did my tour, I came home and I was retired.
I know that you have spoken in the past about how WWE talked you into making sporadic appearances in the ring after you had officially retired and your son, David, was starting out. Your final match took place in Baltimore on Aug. 29, 1987, when you teamed with Hulk Hogan against King Bundy and One Man Gang. Did you know when you stepped in the ring that night that was going to be your last match?
I was very angry when I found out I was put in that position. In 1985, they wanted me to go back in the ring because Boston wasn’t doing well. Hulk Hogan, who everybody thinks is such a big attraction, was the champion. I turned it down. But then they went to my kid and said, “You know, we could make a tag match if you could talk your father into putting the tights on, and it would be a great boost for you in establishing yourself.” My son came to me, and I said, “David, if they want to push you, they can do it with you just like they do everybody else.” Anyway, I didn’t want it to be said that I didn’t want to help my kid, and I did, but I was resentful of it that McMahon put me in a situation like that. It happened more often as time went on, and I thought, “That’s it. It’s time for me to make my exit.” I didn’t even know about that match [in Baltimore]. When I found out about it, I didn’t say a word to anybody, but I was disgusted and angry. I came to Baltimore, and I thought to myself: “That’s it. They got me into this one, and I’ll do it, and then they can all go you know where.” That night, I hated being there — not Baltimore, but the whole situation. And that was my last match.
How did you feel about being teamed up with Hogan and doing the posing routine with him after the match?
I was light. I was down to about maybe 230 at that time. Look at who was in the ring: Hogan was all juiced up and he was 300-310 pounds; the other two guys — Bundy was like 450 pounds, and One Man Gang was like 400 pounds. Here I am at 230 pounds, a shadow of the 275 pounds I was when I first broke into the business in 1959, and they came to me and said that the orders were that I had to pose in the ring. I said, “What do you mean I have to pose?” And they said that’s what Vince emphasized. I guess they wanted me to look foolish next to a guy like Hogan. Here I was at 52 at the time, and I looked in the mirror when I got dressed and I did a pose and I thought to myself, “You know, maybe these people are aware and maybe they’re not. Maybe they know about steroid freaks and maybe they don’t. But they remember me from my heyday when I was a much bigger guy.” I’m looking at myself and I thought: “You know, I’m only about 230, but I’m well-defined. So, yeah, I’ll pose. Two guys are big fat guys, so they aren’t going to make me look bad, and this other guy here I think everybody knows is a steroid freak. Let them see what a person looks like who does natural training without any chemicals and is in his 50s.” Out of anger more than anything else, I went and did those poses.
Is there anything else you wanted to bring out in this interview before we wrap things up?
The McMahon camp say that I won’t go into the Hall of Fame and stuff like that because I’m a very bitter guy. You know, I cannot tell you how much I resent them saying that. I wish that most people on this globe were as happy as I have been in the past 15-20 years. No, I don’t have money to burn, but I’m comfortable and I’m happy because I’m with my family — my grandkids and my sons Danny and Darryl are close by. I work out every day — sure, I had some setbacks with some surgeries, but I always bounced back real good. I tell everybody that I’m dating my wife again. Every Saturday, we go out to dinner. I think, “My God, if this could only continue.” So, for people who haven’t seen me in so many years to say that I’m a bitter guy, they just haven’t a clue of what a happy, happy guy I really am at this stage of my life.
This is the last of five interviews I conducted with TNA talent backstage at Universal Studios in Orlando, Fla., before the Impact taping on March 28:
Can you talk about the growth you have seen in TNA since you’ve been in the company and where you see things headed?
Yeah, it’s amazing. I came in a little under three years ago and we didn’t even have a TV deal. They were working on it, and Spike jumped aboard and the relationship to my knowledge has been great. The future looks great for the company. It’s growing each day, as far as the departments – whether it’s merchandise or the promotional team or just in the office. They’re hiring people because we’re growing so fast – the international market is just exploding and the fan base over here. We’re running a lot of live events. I think we have 70 to 80 right now this year, and they’re adding more shows as we speak. Dixie [Carter, TNA owner] doesn’t want to go on the road as much as our competition because she wants us to have a family life, too. But we’ve got to take the wrestling to the fans. We can’t expect them to come down to Orlando or wherever we’re having our pay-per-views – 12 different venues a year.
What else do you think TNA has to do to get to the next level and become legitimate competition for WWE?
I think raising my pay a lot (laughs). I think we’re on the right track. It’s exploding. Obviously, when other wrestlers’ contracts come up with other companies or some wrestlers want to come back from Japan, certain moves will help out the company as far as signing guys. The guys that we have under contract like Shark Boy – I’m a big fan of his. The stuff he’s doing, it’s great. All the guys here are elevating themselves. They’re given an opportunity and they’re taking advantage of it. So that raises the product. If some people do become part of the TNA team that aren’t with us now, I’m sure they’ll be a team player and help the company, and that will help the growth, too.
When WWE revived the ECW brand, you had an opportunity to go back there, but you decided to stay in TNA. Why?
I didn’t want to go on the road that much. I really saw the growth in TNA starting, and they gave me an opportunity when they really didn’t need to. But they knew my talent and what I can bring to the table. I kind of felt like, OK, I didn’t really want to go on the road that much at that point in my life – and that was almost two years ago when I re-signed. I saw the future looking bright for TNA, and I was right, because we’re sitting here talking about the growth of the company. So, I decided to re-sign with TNA and I’m happy that I did.
What is your impression of WWE’s version of ECW?
To be honest with you, I haven’t really watched it. That’s not a good thing. I’m not saying that to say, “Oh, I don’t want to watch the competition.” You have to watch the competition because maybe you’ll learn something. It’s good to keep an eye on the competition and it’s good to keep an eye on new upcoming wrestlers because you might be wrestling them in the ring one day. I really haven’t see too much of the show, but it would never be the same when Vince [McMahon] bought it. I knew that from the beginning. I’m not saying good or bad, but I knew it just wouldn’t be the same. Because back then you had young guys that weren’t getting paid, some were getting paid very little and some were getting paid pretty decent. But it was just a different atmosphere.
It was kind of like you’ve got a nice nightclub, and then you’ve got that dirty, dingy nightclub. Back then it was that dirty, dingy nightclub. Now it’s a nice nightclub. You can’t knock Vince because you can learn a lot from him if you watch him. Look at what he made wrestling. He took it from territories to an international product. I honestly believe if Vince didn’t do what he did then, TNA wouldn’t be here. It might be a little territory, but it wouldn’t have that opportunity to become an international company like it is.
Is there anybody in TNA that you haven’t worked with yet that you would like to have a program with at some point?
No, just put them out there and I’ll kick their [butt]. See, I said that to sound tough. I think it did. You know, there’s so much talent in this locker room. Petey Williams, Scott Steiner, Kurt Angle, Black Machismo, A.J. Styles, Sonjay Dutt – the talent list is just so incredible. I’d like to wrestle some of the X Division guys. I’ve been in the ring with Samoa Joe, and that guy’s tough, I’ll tell you that. There’s Kurt [Angle], and Christian [Cage] – I enjoyed getting in the ring with him. Like I said, the talent list is incredible. I couldn’t pick just one person. I’d have to give you the whole roster (laughs).
You’ve done two Elevation X matches. How nerve-wracking is it to be wrestling that high up?
It’s not being up there. It’s when it’s over and you know you can walk away from it, whether you’re climbing down or whether you fall. What people really don’t understand is that a match like that … you really can’t predict anything. Honest to God truth: If you fall two feet and land on you head wrong, you can break your neck and die or you can break your neck and be paralyzed. Nobody will understand unless they get up there. Kids, don’t wrestle at home and try this stuff. Don’t jump off of roofs. It’s not going to get you a job in pro wrestling. Actually, promotions like TNA and WWE look down on that so don’t even do it, because it’s stupid and you’ll get hurt eventually. A buddy of mine’s little brother broke his neck when he was 14 back in ’96 – paralyzed from the chest down. He was wrestling in the backyard, did a back flip and landed on his head.
With the Elevation X match, I think three weeks before the match last year and this year it’s just like, “Am I marching to my death?” Really, that’s what you think. One slip, one wrong move and it could be over. I would try not to think about it, but it was always in my mind and would always come up. It seems stupid to say, but it seemed like the war drums were beating and they got louder and louder getting to the event. So I’m glad I climbed down both years (laughs).
This is the fourth of five interviews I conducted with TNA talent backstage at Universal Studios in Orlando, Fla., before the Impact taping on March 28:
You’ve had more of an in-ring role in TNA in recent months. Is that something that TNA initiated or is it something that you pitched to them?
I think it was mutual. I think that my contract was up and they were hoping that I’d be more of an in-ring personality than out-of-ring. So, I said I’d give it a shot and see how my body felt, and it’s worked out – knock on wood – so far (laughs). And I’m actually having fun, which is the key.
How much longer do you see yourself still doing this?
I don’t know. When you’re a wrestler, I think they have to drive a stake in your heart.
No one ever really retires, right?
No, they don’t. I think they just either slow down or get so many parts replaced that you just can’t do it anymore. But, actually right now I feel good. The schedule is light enough where, even though after three days I feel like hell, I’ve usually got like 13 or 14 days to get my body back. If I was working house shows I couldn’t do it.
How disappointing was it for you on a personal level when Scott Hall came back toward the end of last year and ended up no-showing the Turning Point pay-per-view?
My relationship with Scott – wrestling is probably like one percent of what our relationship is. I knew that if Scott no-showed that he was in trouble. While everybody else was running around concerned that they couldn’t put the match together, I was concerned about my buddy’s well-being. I was very upset about it, but Scott’s Scott. He’s dealing with those issues now and he’s doing better.
You were instrumental in getting both he and Sean Waltman some help, correct?
Yeah. I mean, we’re like brothers, all of us. I think it’s just that we’ve spent so much time together that when one of us shows up at the door, it’s kind of like, “Oh God, my big brother’s here.” And I’m not going to come do it unless you’re screwing up. And if you’re screwing up, it’s like, “OK, you’ve got to take care of this.” The three of us have a really good relationship, as I do with Shawn [Michaels] and Paul [Levesque, aka Triple H]. [Hall and Waltman] have just had a bad year (laughs). But I think in the long run this will probably be the most productive year both have had in a long time.
You mentioned Shawn Michaels, and on his DVD he talked about how you confronted him as well several years ago and told him he needed to straighten up, especially being a husband and a father now. It seems like you’ve always been the steady one who was there for everyone when they were struggling.
I don’t know. I mean, when we all went out, I drove. I was kind of the dad. I drove most of the miles. They used to say, even when we were pretty screwed up, “You’re the heaviest – you drive! You’ve got more body weight.” For three years, we spent 300 days a year together, in an environment that wasn’t really advantageous to proper living. I look back and I just say, “Of all the guys who have passed, it’s a miracle that the four of us made it through that.” But I think it’s because we did watch out for each other, and we always pulled back the reins and kept an eye on each other, and would say, “Dude, you’re out of control.” I think that’s why we’re all still here.
The next TNA Q&A will be with Rhino.
This is the third of five interviews I conducted with TNA talent backstage at Universal Studios in Orlando, Fla., before the Impact taping on March 28:
Were you a wrestling fan growing up, and if so, who were some of the people that you were influenced by?
Yeah, I was a wrestling fan growing up. Probably around the age of 7 or 8 I started watching wrestling. Growing up in Canada, the wrestling that I got to see was all WWF stuff, watching guys like Hulk Hogan, “Macho Man” and guys of that nature. I was a hockey player growing up, and, of course, living in Canada, I always wanted to be a professional hockey player. In the back of my mind I knew that someday I always wanted to try professional wrestling.
Probably around the age of 18 or 19, I got to a certain level in hockey and I knew I really wasn’t going to go any farther, and I really wanted to get into professional wrestling. Fortunately for me, I was friends with Val Venis. So before he actually signed with the WWE, I started doing a little bit of training with him, and from there it slowly but surely took off. He basically broke me in and taught me a little bit of stuff. From there, his partner at the time who was in Puerto Rico, “Glamour Boy” Shane Sewell, who is also Canadian, took over my training. And the rest is history.
You actually had some WWE dark matches early in your career. What did you take from that experience?
It was a real eye-opener. Really, my first match was in June 1998, and I did my first dark match in probably the fall of ’98. So, I didn’t have very many matches under my belt at the time. I was just in the right place at the right time and it was a real eye-opener, but it was a great experience. It made me learn different things about the business and see the stars that you see on TV, how they handle themselves professionally backstage and how they prepare for matches and so on. I had probably – between ’98 and the time I came to TNA in 2004 – close to a dozen dark matches or TV matches with WWE.
Who came up with the Robert Roode character, and how much input do you have in the direction of the character?
Coming off of the Team Canada split, the whole Robert Roode character coming from Wall Street and the money and stuff was really Vince Russo’s idea, and Dutch Mantel kind of ran with it and made it his own. As far as my input goes, the good thing about TNA and the creative team here is that they like to listen to the talent’s input. It’s kind of a team effort.
You seem to have good chemistry with Traci Brooks, especially when you’re on opposite sides. To say your character treats her character poorly would be an understatement. Is it difficult to be as nasty to her on camera as you are?
That’s the best thing about being in professional wrestling for me, because the person you see on TV every week is completely different than the guy you see at the grocery store or getting gas. Traci and I are both Canadian and we go back before TNA. We’ve known each other for many years. What happens in the ring and on TV stays on TV and we just kind of laugh about it. She’s real professional. She’s a very good valet and a very good on-screen talent. I had a lot of fun working with her. The whole angle with her and “Showtime” Eric Young was one of the most enjoyable angles I’ve ever done.
You mentioned that the guy fans see on TV is different than the guy they see at the grocery store. There was a time in this business when heels were actually shot at and stabbed. The character you play is not a “cool heel” and doesn’t really have any redeeming qualities. Do you ever get an over-the-top negative reaction when you’re out in public from people who have trouble separating what they see on TV from who you are?
It’s never gotten to the extreme where people throw things at me in public or come up and say anything mean to me. But the people that come up for autographs are a little bit timid around me. When we do fan interaction stuff, people are very polite and kind of shy even to get an autograph because I think they take the persona they see on TV and translate that into real life. That’s good in a way because I’m an old-school guy when it comes to the business.
I don’t want to be a cool heel. I want the Robert Roode character to be hated, and I think that’s what makes the Robert Roode character unique right now in professional wrestling. All over the business, whether it’s here, WWE or wherever it is, you’re always going to have the heels that get cheered. If I had it my way, and the majority of the time it is the case, I don’t have any cheers and people really do hate me. So that makes me feel like I’m doing my job.
What has it been like for you to work with a guy as respected and accomplished as Booker T.?
It’s been great. We’ve been working together now pretty much since he’s come to the company. It’s been pretty close to five months now heading into Lockdown. It’s been a great experience for me. I’ve learned so much from him. I grew up watching him in Harlem Heat and seen what he’s accomplished in his career in WCW, and even recently in the WWE. It’s an honor for me to be able to get in the ring with him.
I think the story that we’ve gotten to with Sharmell and myself has really taken off and it’s almost got a dramatic feel to it. It’s a little different than what you normally see on wrestling shows. It’s almost like a real life situation and I think people are really interested in it. He’s probably one of the top professional guys inside and outside of the ring. I’m learning not only how to handle myself in the ring with him, but also learning how to handle myself outside of the ring as businessman. I’m real fortunate to be able to work with him.
People who have been watching TNA for a few years have seen you gradually climb the ladder from Team Canada to where you are now. It seems like you are right on the cusp of main events. What do you need to do to get to that next level?
Just keep working and doing the best I can. Whatever the creative team throws at me, just try to make it the best and make my segment the best on the show. Keep creating that heel heat that I have. And as long as I keep working with great babyfaces and great workers like Booker T. and Christian and keep myself in that upper echelon of guys, I think it’ll get me there. I just have to be patient, and I think in the end it’s going to pay off.
The next TNA Q&A will be with Kevin Nash.
This is the second of five interviews I conducted with TNA talent backstage at Universal Studios in Orlando, Fla., before the Impact taping on March 28:
Why do you think the TNA women’s division has caught on with fans the way it has?
I think when we started this division, expectations were really low. Not to knock anything, but women’s wrestling at that time was pretty much at a lull. There was not much going on except for a lot of T&A – pardon the pun (laughs). I think that the fans wanted to see something different. True wrestling fans love a great wrestling match. And when the expectations are kind of low, it’s not hard to please, but I think we’ve really worked hard and we’ve shown the fans that we’re passionate about the business, that we want to entertain them, and they really truly appreciate us and it’s not all about just looks.
Was it frustrating for you before there was a women’s division in TNA to basically be a valet? You got some spots in, but you weren’t actually wrestling much.
Yeah, it was so frustrating for me, because I appreciated the position in the company, but they knew from before I signed the contract that I wanted wrestle, and that’s what I perceived myself as – a wrestler not a manager. Normally, with girls that I know in the business, they start off managing and then they become a wrestler, or they just stay as a manager who can wrestle, but I was always a wrestler. It was hard to go from being all of the action to being just part of the action. It’s hard to be out there with the guys and watch them do what you love and you can’t be in that position.
There have been rumors that TNA is considering having a separate TV show devoted exclusively to the women’s division. Is there any truth to that?
I’ve heard rumors that they want that to happen, and I think that’s a great thing. If it can succeed, I think it’s great for women’s wrestling, because I think we’ve changed the minds of a lot of people, including people in the company. A lot of fans have already e-mailed me and said they would definitely watch it. I just know that all-girls shows don’t have a really good track record of succeeding, but I think we could do it.
I’ve never understood what WWE was thinking when it released you. How surprised were you when it happened? Did that come out of left field?
Yeah, it really did. I remember us talking about a brand new story line at that time that was with me, Trish [Stratus] and Lita, and I actually went in the pre-tape room the day before. And then at Raw that night I did a run-in to start that whole angle, and then the very next day I got the phone call. So, yeah, I was shocked. Johnny Ace [John Laurinaitis, WWE senior vice president of talent relations] called me and basically said that I was released. And then he just tried to hang up (laughs). I wasn’t even upset; I was just in shock, I think. I said, “Hold on, hold on. Can I get a reason for this?” He just said that they wanted to change the direction of the women’s division. And they did; he didn’t lie about that. But everything happens for a reason, and I would never have accomplished everything that I have to this day if that never happened.
Every great babyface needs a great heel to work with, and for you, that’s Awesome Kong. What has it been like working with her?
Very physical. Like I’ve gotten hit by a truck after a match (laughs). This is the one angle or feud that I’ve been involved in that I’m very, very proud of, and I’m pretty hard on myself when it comes to my work. It’s the perfect David and Goliath feud, I guess you could say. She’s an amazing heel; she is a monster. I love the physicality. She came from working in Japan all those years, and I love it.
Who were the women wrestlers that influenced you or that you looked up to?
I watched wrestling as a kid when I was younger, and then I kind of fell out of it, and then I started watching it again around my early 20s. At that time, WWE’s women’s division was just starting to form, and it was Trish, Jazz, Victoria, and I really just loved watching Molly Holly and really admired her, the way she moved in the ring and her work ethic. And then I got to meet her and she’s actually the one who gave me my break in the business, so that was cool. She’s a really good person.
If you could sum it up, what distinguishes TNA knockouts from WWE divas?
I think those girls are very hot and they look great and everything, but I think to succeed in this business you need to have the passion. A lot of girls that are in our company took it upon themselves to go get trained and learn about the business and pay their dues. If the fans watch our show, they can say, “Oh, that’s Awesome Kong, she’s this character. And ODB’s that nutty, crazy character, and Roxxi Laveaux is the gypsy character.” We have characters and we all have our own distinctive look. I think a lot of the time when you just see a lot of beautiful girls it kind of just all blends in together. You want something about yourself to stand out.
The next TNA Q&A will be with Robert Roode.
This is the first of five interviews I conducted with TNA talent backstage at Universal Studios in Orlando, Fla., before the Impact taping on March 28:
Your injury history has been well documented, but you seem to be doing well since signing with TNA. Is that the case, and if so, how much do you attribute it to the lighter schedule?
Yeah, I feel great. I haven’t felt this good in years. I actually got my weight down under 210. I’m in the best shape of my life since I wrestled in the Olympics. Thank God. I’m not going to BS anybody and say that I have a lighter schedule, because I don’t. I am on the road just as much, but I wrestle half as much. I try to do a lot more promotion. Anything to help promote TNA, whether it’s the television show, the pay-per-view, the video game, the action figures – whatever marketing thing that we’re going after, I’m always there promoting it. They keep me pretty busy from that aspect.
I also do a lot of interviews during the week and we do a lot of media days. Usually I’m the one who does the media days for the pay-per-views – usually but not always. I think we’re doing two days for me before Boston [site of the Lockdown pay-per-view on April 13]. I do a lot of autograph signings for the company. What that does is that brings in more revenue for them. The company gave me a great guaranteed deal, and I want to give back. I only wrestle so many dates, so they give me a certain amount of money per date, and by the end of the year my money doesn’t match my guarantee – I usually make a lot more than what I earned. So I do a lot of dates where I do autograph signings or promotions for TNA that makes up for it. I want to work for the company and work for the money. I don’t just want it handed to me. I like helping promote the company.
Being in TNA is way more exciting than WWE, because they’re established. They’re already a huge Fortune 500 company. They’re obviously the biggest wrestling company in the world. But TNA is making history. We were nothing five and a half years ago, and now we’re a wrestling power. We’re not at WWE’s level yet, but we’re going to get there. It’s fun being a part of it because I’m seeing it growing every week. Now, I feel like I actually have a purpose, instead of just being some top wrestler for a company, and basically all they wanted to do was wrestle me into the ground. Here I have a purpose, and that’s to make TNA the best possible company it can be, and it feels good. It feels good when you hear, “Hey, we did our highest rating this week.” And I’ve heard that a lot in the last year and a half or so.
We’re in 125 countries now, and I’ve already represented TNA over in Japan. I went over to Germany and England to set up our tours. I do all that stuff. I even went out to Vegas and went to a bunch of promoters to do house shows, and [TNA owner] Dixie Carter had me sell the shows. I explained to them why they should buy them. So they have used me more than just a talent, and it feels good. I’m helping them in every aspect. And I’m also helping them in a creative aspect, from a writer’s standpoint. They include me in on that and I like doing it.
One thing I don’t like is politics in wrestling. You’re going to have that, but here, if there are any, it’s very little. I’m the top guy and I’m not stopping anyone from coming up and taking my place. I want somebody to come up and take my place. In WWE it’s the opposite. Everybody is trying to keep everybody else down. I want everyone to come up to my level. Me and [Samoa] Joe are going to have a great match on pay-per-view. I want him to look better than I look so that his value goes up. That’s how we all are. We all want to make each other look good. It’s a lot different locker room than it is in WWE.
You actually answered several of my questions in your response. Let me shift gears and talk to you about your wife, Karen. Historically, this business has not been great for marriages, especially when the wife also becomes talent. Did you have any trepidation about her coming into the wrestling world?
When she did her first promo, I was blown away. I was thinking, “Wow, this girl is huge. She can make the company some money.” Jeff Jarrett came to me right afterward. He actually got out of the truck from directing, and we had just gotten backstage after doing the promo in the ring, and he said, “Kurt, she’s huge money.” I said, “Jeff, that’s the same thing I was thinking when I was in the ring with her.” He said, “Well, will she take a job?” “I said, “You’re going to have to ask her.” She said, “Sure, but I have to be home this many days a month. I can’t do house shows; I can only do TV and pay-per-view. Every once in a while, pay to have my kids come down and go to Disney World while I’m working and it’ll be great.” Thank God, it’s actually brought us closer together. We spend more time together, and it actually did the opposite of what it’s done in the past to others. It’s been great.
There’s been a lot of talk about you doing MMA. Is that still in your future, or is it too late at this point?
No, it isn’t [too late]. I just did a training session on Tuesday before I came here. I am in the process of signing an agreement to fight Randy Couture. We both signed a no-compete clause, which means the company that I’m not allowed to say who it is, signed us to a deal where we couldn’t go anywhere else to do this; we have to do it with this particular company. That’s the first step. The next step is signing the fight. And then after that it will be, instead of me training periodically, it will be me training more consistently. So, I’m open to it. If I’m going to do it, I don’t want any guys fed to me. In other words, I don’t need to make my name bigger in order to fight a top guy. I’m there already. I know my caliber of athleticism and what caliber of guy I want to go against – it’s Randy. I consider him one of the best fighters of all time. I think Randy and I would have a heck of a fight. We’re both very well-conditioned athletes.
It should be very exciting, but me wrestling fulltime and doing the fighting also, the advantage goes to Randy. He’s already established as a fighter. Even though I’m an Olympic gold medalist, it’s been years since I really competed. It’s just a matter of getting some training down. I’m not timid or scared of a large crowd – that’s not going to bother me. I’ve been in cages – I’m not worried about that. I know that when I get in there, I will be ready. Am I ready right now? No. I have to train to get ready. I’ve been working a lot on my technique more than anything. My conditioning will come down the road six weeks before the fight; that’s when I’ll really clamp down and train hard. As far as technique and stuff, that’s why I’m periodically going to the Pittsburgh Fight Club and training and making sure that I learn the proper technique so I don’t get myself in trouble.
You mentioned earlier about wanting to bring guys on the roster up to your level. Samoa Joe already has main-evented pay-per-views with you. Who are some others that you think will eventually rise up to the main-event level?
Actually, let’s talk about the guys. Samoa Joe isn’t there yet. If you’re going to put him on the same pedestal as me, I don’t think he’s quite there. Can he get there? Yeah. A.J. Styles, is he there? Not yet. He will get there. Robert Roode is a great example. He’s a guy that’s going to end up being a major big-time star. James Storm – another guy that’s mid-cardish right now that’s going to end up being a big star. Abyss, when he comes back, we’re actually going to back up and redo his whole character and make him more of a monster. He’s going to be a bigger star. We have a lot of talented kids. Kaz is another kid that I think is going to have a big future. He just needs to work a little bit more on his promo skills. The tag teams are great. The Motor City Machine Guns – even if you split them up and let them go singles, they are exciting and they’re fun to watch; they have so much talent.
Right now, the established guys are me, Kevin Nash, Christian Cage, Sting and Booker T. I’d say that’s the first level. And then you’ve got Abyss, Samoa Joe and A.J. Styles that are right there. And Tomko, I forgot about him. So those guys are right about ready to make it. And the guys right under them are James Storm, Robert Roode. Even guys like Eric Young. Even though his character is somewhat of a goofball, he’s a great wrestler and people love him. As silly as his character is, people love that kid and he’s very talented. Our X Division is incredible and doesn’t get the credit it deserves. I like wrestling those guys in the X Division. I don’t get to do it enough, but when we do I have a lot of fun.
It’s weird, because WWE has five hours of programming a week, and when I was up there, I’d be looking around and thinking, “There’s really nobody left for me to work with.” I came down here and I was like, “Wow, I can work with this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy – it seemed like the list went on and on.” I know there are some guys that are even under the guys that I mentioned, but eventually they’re going to get there. I want to wrestle those guys. One guy that’s getting over really big, and his character is a little bit off the wall, is Black Machismo. He’s doing a great job. I guess in TNA there’s a little bit of something for everybody. We have a lot of different characters and stuff like that, but one thing we do have is really good wrestlers.
After your in-ring career ends – whenever that is – do you want to stay involved in the business in some capacity?
I will stay with TNA definitely, and I mean this with all my heart, for at least the next 10 years. Whether it’s wrestling, agent, producer, even helping out with promotion, I’ll be here the next 10 years; I’m not going anywhere. I want to see it all the way through. I don’t want to bow out before this company is head to head with WWE, and it’s going to happen eventually. It’s happened before in the past with WCW and WWF, and it’s going to happen again with TNA and WWE. And God willing, it happens while I’m still wrestling. But if I’m not, and it’s six or seven years from now and I’m retired, I will still be in the company in some capacity.
The next TNA Q&A will be with Gail Kim.
Shawn Michaels has earned the monikers “The Showstopper” and “Mr. WrestleMania” for his show-stealing performances on sports entertainment’s biggest stage. On March 30, Michaels will compete in his 15th WrestleMania, but this one is perhaps the most special to him. Michaels will be facing Ric Flair, the man he idolized as a youngster, in a match that very likely will be the final one of Flair’s legendary career.
I spoke briefly with Michaels about the match and his legacy at WrestleMania in a phone interview this afternoon.
You have wrestled Ric Flair before, but can you put into words what it means to you to be facing him at WrestleMania in what could be his final match?
There’s just an emotional thing here for me and for Ric that I think is probably hard for a lot of folks to get a hold of. I’m going in there with a guy that, when I was 16 years old, I sat in front of the TV and I said, “Gosh, I want to be just like him. He embodies everything I want to be. Everything I picture the wrestling life to be, he’s it.” Fast-forward 20-some-odd years later and to be a grown man and be able to call him my friend – we’ve gotten so close with each other in the last several years – and then for him to handpick me to try to get him his greatest moment. I take it so seriously and so personally because of what he’s meant to me in the past and what he means to me now as a friend, and what he’s created in this industry. I know there are so many people that believe he ought to be honored and set apart, and to be the guy that needs to get that done, on the one hand, it’s wonderful. On the other hand, I go, “Gosh, I wish I wouldn’t have been calling myself ‘The Showstopper’ and ‘Mr. WrestleMania’ all these years. I’ve really worked myself into a shoot this time.”
I’ve always gone into WrestleMania, and most of my matches and pay-per-view matches, where no matter what I was feeling on the inside – there have always been nerves and things like that – but I always went in on the outside feeling 7-feet tall and bulletproof. This is the first time that I’m visibly shaken. Can I honor him? Can I do what I really believe he deserves, and can I make it happen for him? Because I want to. There’s a strange emotional thing going on for me that I’ve tried to detach myself from as best I can, but it’s still there. There’s still a part of me that’s 16. Everyone wants me to bring my best, and to do that would mean him leaving this industry forever. Being the guy that did that, and I recognize that there’s a whole show that goes with that, but bittersweet is the only way that I can describe it. There’s an inner conflict going on with me the likes of which I’ve never really had before because there are so many real emotional levels with me. The idea of Ric Flair not being in this industry is something that I don’t even know if I’m prepared for.
I remember a TV match in 1991 or’ 92 that you had with Ric when you were still part of The Rockers. You were a young guy at that point and not yet a singles star. What was it like to work with your idol at that stage of your career?
He had been in the company for a short time and that was our first chance to get to meet each other. That was when I first began to tell him sort of how I felt about him and his impact on my life. At that time I hadn’t become an established anything yet other than a tag-team guy. I think it was one of those things that he had probably heard before and was flattered by. When we went out there, it was business as usual for him. Obviously, me, I was giddy, and it was the fastest eight minutes of my entire life. It wasn’t that long of a match, but it was something at that point in my life that I held very precious. It was like, “Holy cow, I’m in there with ‘The Naitch.’ I’m in there with this guy that I watched.”
The thing that always sort of brings me back to reality is that I’ve got this buddy, Kenny, who was there with me when I was 16 years old watching Ric. And he called me way back then and said, “I can’t believe you wrestled Ric Flair.” And, of course, now to fast-forward so many years later, and we still talk, and he’s like, “Holy cow, Shawn. Can you believe it? He might be having his last match.” There’s still a part of me that I keep tucked away and hidden here in Texas that’s still 16 and chatting with my buddy Kenny about the fact that I’m wrestling Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV. I was giddy then. Now, when I talk to Kenny he gets me giddy about it. But the harsh reality is that Ric Flair has always been a part of this business for as long as I can remember. Of all the interest that I’ve ever had in this line of work, he’s been involved in some aspect of it. And the idea of him not being in there – I feel like the old couple that when one of them goes, the other one loses their will to live a little bit. And I really have to wonder, as goofy as it sounds, how much more I’ll want to go on if he’s gone.
I’m in the midst of counting down the Top 20 WrestleMania moments on this blog, and, not surprisingly, you have been involved in several of them. If you had to pick just one, what would be your favorite WrestleMania moment that you were a part of?
Wow. Gosh, that’s always been a hard one for me. I suppose I always have to go back to the ladder match [with Razor Ramon in 1994] because I think that’s the one that sort of put me on the map. That’s the one where people said, “You know what? This guy could be a player.” I really have to credit that one for taking me to that next level. I don’t know that any of those other WrestleMania moments would have been possible had I not been in that match.
The plan for the main event at last year’s WrestleMania was John Cena vs. Triple H, but you were inserted in Triple H’s spot after he got hurt. Had he not been injured, what was the plan for you at WrestleMania?
At that time, like every other WrestleMania, there were a couple different ideas. That’s sort of how it’s been with me every year. … The last call I got before Hunter went down was, “Well, we’re thinking about maybe you and King Booker, but we’re also thinking about maybe putting you in the Donald Trump thing. How would you feel about that?” I was like, “Well, Donald Trump and Vince [McMahon] will probably get all the focus and it doesn’t really matter who you put in the match.” Those were the two talked-about scenarios. Just like it was with every other WrestleMania before that, I was like, “That’s fine.” I landed in the main event at WrestleMania XX, which wasn’t really a discussed thing. They brought to me the [Kurt] Angle match years ago. So, things have just slowly gotten better each time. The only one that I’ve ever requested on my own was [with] Vince McMahon, because, for one WrestleMania, I wanted to be in a match where I didn’t have all the pressure of having to tear the house down.
Although it still did.
And I appreciate that, but it’s a lot easier to go in when the sights are set sort of low. Again, that’s when that whole “Showstopper” and “Mr. WrestleMania” thing works against you. I’m at a point in my life now where I don’t know that I enjoy the pressure-cooker as much as I used to. So, I’d love to have a WrestleMania where all the pressure in the world wasn’t upon my shoulders. Apparently it’s not going to happen this year, that’s for sure. I’m looking forward to a day, if it ever comes, when I can maybe be just “plus one other exciting match.”
Photo of Shawn Michaels (left) and Ric Flair courtesy of WWE.com.
John Bradshaw Layfield, who retired in 2006 due to a severe back injury, hung up his headset and left the Smackdown announce table last month to return to the ring for a high-profile singles program with Chris Jericho on Raw.
On Sunday, JBL will be one of six wrestlers — along with Jericho, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy and Umaga — participating in an elimination chamber match at the No Way Out pay-per-view. The winner will wrestle for the WWE championship next month at WrestleMania XXIV.
I spoke with Layfield in a telephone interview yesterday.
From a physical standpoint, how does it feel to be back in the ring after such a long layoff, and how much did you miss being in the ring while you were out?
I missed it a ton. It’s something that I thought I’d never get to do again. Ever since I was a kid, all I ever really wanted to be was a wrestler. To get to go back and do that again, it’s just been phenomenal. Physically, I’m not there yet; I’m not even close. My body’s not hardened up to taking the beating yet, so I’m coming out with an inordinate amount of bruises and bumps, but that over time is going to heal up. I really planned on coming back later in the year, and the deal with Jericho just happened, so I came back a lot earlier than I expected to. I still don’t have the ring rust off yet and still don’t have my body hard enough to do what I need to be doing. And, honestly, my mind is not where I need to be to be in a truly important singles program yet.
You said you came back earlier than you had planned. What made you decide that now was the time to do it?
It was just a matter of the opportunity with Jericho, and I’m not sure how that came about. I really planned on coming back later in the spring when I felt like I was in better shape, even though I’ve lost about 50 pounds, because I was real fat for a while. I’m still not in shape like I need to be, so I was thinking it was going to be later. But the opportunity came up with Jericho, and I’ve always been a fan of Chris’ and a friend of his, and it was something that I just couldn’t turn down.
I can’t remember you and Jericho ever wrestling each other before this program. Had you ever met before in the ring?
Never in the ring. I’ve known Chris since back when he was Lionheart in Japan back in the early ’90s. I’ve known Chris throughout our respective careers, but we’ve never even been in the ring with each other.
That’s pretty amazing for two guys that have been around for as long as you both have.
Yeah, and we’ve both been in the same territories before, too. We both were in Japan together and we both were in WWE together, and for whatever reason, we just never met up.
What are your thoughts so far on your program with Jericho?
I think Chris is phenomenal. Working with Chris with me just coming back felt a lot like me working with Eddie [Guerrero]. I was just trying to uphold my part because I knew they would be there. I did that relatively well. Chris is a fantastic talent who probably covered up a lot of my inadequacies. I felt great out there with Chris. He’s a guy that doesn’t mind getting punched in the mouth and neither do I. It was the perfect guy to come back with.
It did look like you guys are working pretty snug in there.
We were. I’m not sure it’s because we meant to work snug or we’re both rusty. In fact, right now I’ve got a tooth that’s missing because of Chris. He knocked it right out, and I just haven’t had time to have it fixed because I’ve been traveling so much. It was initially knocked out by Finlay back in the early ’90s in Europe. And it’s not a fake tooth that’s supposed to come out. Finlay knocked out a real tooth and I had it fixed, and then Jericho knocked it out again at the pay-per-view.
I thought that you and Michael Cole worked very well together. Do you miss doing commentary, and is that something you plan to do again when you do stop wrestling?
Yeah, I do miss it. I really enjoyed working with Michael Cole. I think he’s a great play-by-play guy. He’s a great setup guy and he checks his ego at the door, which is so important when you’re doing commentary. I look at it now and I see Cole and I think, “Oh, I’d like to answer it like this.” Someday, I’d love to go back to it. I really had a lot of fun. The art of commentary is something that is really interesting to me.
You are in the Raw elimination chamber match at No Way Out on Sunday. Since you haven’t been in one of these matches before, will you do anything differently to prepare for it? I don’t mean that in a kayfabe sense. Do you watch tapes of past chamber matches, for instance?
The thing about this structure is there’s nothing that gives in this thing. You’re going to get hurt in this thing and there’s no doubt about it. There’s really not much you can do physically to prepare for it, because you know going in you’re going to get banged up. Mentally, yeah, I’ve watched all the old elimination chambers and we’ll watch more before the match Sunday to try to get a better sense of what’s going to go on in the match.
Who else on the Raw roster do you look forward to working with? Is there someone else who you haven’t worked with much that you’d like to?
Yeah, Shawn Michaels I just think the world of. I would love the opportunity to be in a meaningful match with him. We’ve wrestled before, just a couple times. Once early when he was champion back in ’96, and then right before I retired we wrestled about a 20-minute match in England on TV. But we’ve never really hooked up in any real meaningful sense. I just think the world of the guy and I think it would be great to be able to do that. The same with Triple H. Now, Triple H and I have wrestled many, many times, but never on a real meaningful stage. I would really enjoy that. There’s quite a few guys on Raw that I haven’t done that with. There’s a lot of opportunity there where I can do stuff that I haven’t done before.
Tell me about Mamajuana Energy, the new energy drink that your company, Layfield Energy, is putting out.
We’ve changed it to pronounce it like a drunk white Texan, so it’s Mama-ju-ana. Mamajuana is the original product from the Caribbean. Dominicans made it. It’s a legendary elixir. We took the name and changed it to Mamajuana Energy. We also had the formula changed completely. The Dominicans called their product liquid Viagra, and that’s pretty much what we’ve developed. We’ve developed an all-natural, no-prescription needed, two-ounce shot that’s got an energy and a virility component to it. It’s not for Bob Dole and it’s not for Rafael Palmeiro. It’s for virile people who want their sex life to be better. It’s a $5 billion market, and we really don’t think there’s an all-natural thing out there that is targeted to people who don’t have to go to a doctor, they don’t have to make an excuse, they don’t have to go to a pharmacy. It’s something you can pick up over the counter, or you can go to mamajuanaenergy.com. I want to make it clear that it’s not for the erectile dysfunction market — that’s Viagra, Cialis. They’re great drugs and they go after a specific symptom. This is something that people will take because they want it, not because they need it.
Can you personally attest to its effectiveness?
My wife has banned it from our house. Let me tell you a story. I was working with this thing for over a year, and when I first got it, it tasted horrible. I couldn’t give that to somebody else — what if something happens to them? So, I had to test the prototype on myself, even though we had a great [Research and Development] lab out in Long Beach, Calif., in Wellington Foods. I was testing all of them, and I think my wife got tired of me testing them [laughs], so she pretty much banned it from my house, which is possibly the greatest endorsement I’ve ever had. Actually, a few wives have banned it from the house because when I started getting the taste down, I starting giving it to other guys to try, and finally a bunch of the wives just told me, “Would you please quit giving that [stuff] to my husband?”
Since we’re conducting this interview on Valentine’s Day, it sounds like the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the wife, or maybe the husband.
I didn’t have time because we just debuted it, but I was talking to some casinos down in Atlantic City, and they’re the ones that brought up a Mamajuana Energy menu for Valentine’s Day. We’ve got a lot of people making different Mamajuana Energy drinks, which I think is going to be a pretty good market for us.
Your company also is putting out T-Shot Energy, an energy drink designed specifically for golfers. What about the drink makes it good for golfers?
The main thing that makes it different is the anti-inflammatory. I noticed that a lot of golfers — and I love to golf — were taking an energy drink with Aleve, Advil or something like that, because most golfers have a bad something — bad back, bad shoulder, bad knees. So what we did was, we made it all into one shot. It’s all natural, so you’re not taking any drugs. It gives you five hours of energy for 18 holes of golf. It clears your head. It’s got cognitive ingredients in it, so if you’re hungover, you’re tired, whatever, it makes you focus. But the main thing that differentiates us is the anti-inflammatory stuff in it. The product has just gotten great reviews from golfers, because they don’t stove up on the back nine. Even if you’re riding in a cart, you’re doing a lot of walking. So it’s specifically designed just for golfers, which makes it the only thing out there that’s like that.
Are there any other business ventures that you want to talk about?
Just the mamajuanaenergy.com. We’ve got several things that we’re going to come out with in the next few months. We’re coming out with a ladies’ version of Mamajuana Energy, which is going to be big. One thing about ladies is that either they have kids or they’re working people, and they don’t have the energy, they don’t have the desire to have sex because they work all day. Every time we bring this out, women ask us, “Are you going to do anything for ladies?” and the answer is yes. We hope to have it out by summer, and we have several other products that we’re going to bring out by summer as well. The main thing to us is just building this product. We’ve got fulfillment being set up in Canada, in the [European Union], in Mexico, so there’s a lot of work ahead of us.
I can’t let you go without asking you about the political scene. What do you make of what’s gone on in the presidential race the past couple weeks?
I’ll tell you what is just amazing to me. I saw Sen. Arlen Specter request Super Bowl tapes to see if [New England Patriots coach Bill] Belichick was cheating. And I saw that [Rep. Henry] Waxman had [Roger] Clemens and [Brian] McNamee on the stand about this he said, she said. With two wars going on and this economic mess, the mortgage mess going on — and that’s Republicans and Democrats; being pathetic is not indigenous to just one party — they’re spending time with Clemens and McNamee trying to find out who’s lying, and they’re spending time on Belichick. I just think it’s a complete disservice to the American people. And there’s this pork-laden stimulus package. I just look at politics and I’m actually offended by what these guys are doing. I think it’s just pathetic. So when you’re looking at [John] McCain and [Barack] Obama, the problem isn’t who would make a better president — Obama’s stance against big business is the only thing that worries me about the guy — but the Congress that they’re going to have is so inept that I just don’t have much faith in politics right now.
Photo credits: WWE.com
After thrilling viewers with spectacular high-risk moves on consecutive episodes of Raw recently, Jeff Hardy has become the talk of the wrestling world.
Receiving the biggest push of his career, Hardy faces WWE champion Randy Orton for the title Sunday at the Royal Rumble pay-per-view.
Photo courtesy of WWE.com.
I spoke with Hardy in a telephone interview Wednesday.
What was going through your mind right before you did the Swanton off the scaffold and the Whisper in the Wind off the top of the cage?
Not much, actually, especially when you’re out there in front of everybody. Once you commit to doing such a thing, you have to follow through with it, so there’s not much time to think. When it’s really hard is before the match. When you know you’re really going to do something nuts, that’s when you really have time to worry about, “Man, what if I break a leg? What if I break my neck? Oh, my God.” I’ve usually been real confident in trusting in my instinct to do things like that. Luckily, I’ve done a lot of wild things like that and I’ve never gotten seriously injured. That Swanton was probably one of the biggest ones I’ve ever done, and I was able to – not walk away from it – but I’m walking today, so I was fortunate.
When you know that you’re going to be doing a big high-risk move like that, do you practice it before the show?
I’m not a big practice guy at all. There was talk about me even practicing the deal at WrestleMania [last year, when he did a legdrop off a ladder onto Edge, who was lying on a ladder outside the ring], but I just like to do it in front of the crowd and I’m a one-taker when it comes to stuff like that. If I feel comfortable doing it, I’ll just do it one time and that’s it. I’m really not a fan of rehearsing that stuff.
You mentioned earlier that you have never suffered a serious injury doing one of these big bumps, which is pretty amazing. What do you attribute that to?
I don’t know, man, luck probably more than anything. I don’t think there’s any explanation for it. My body feels weak in a lot of places. I know I’ve got herniated discs in my neck and my back, which isn’t extremely serious – they could lead to being serious. I’ve got [bone] chips in my elbows. I can’t wrestle a match without getting my ankles taped because they feel like they’ll shatter on me. Recently, I think I got a chip in my right kneecap, which is really starting to bother me. But it’s just little nagging things like that. I’ve been extremely fortunate to be 30 years old now and not to have had any surgeries.
By raising the bar with the death-defying moves the past few weeks, are you worried about people constantly expecting you to top yourself?
In a way. I think you always can as long as you spread out your risk-taking. I’m talking like maybe two a year, something like that. That was so big the other night, so, naturally, it’s going to be hard to try and top that. But it’s always an interesting challenge to try and top yourself. I know back in the day when we were doing the TLC matches, that was the scenario then. It kind of got to where we were raising the bar so high it was like, “How are we going to continue to top the last match we put on?” But now that things have slowed down a little bit, I think it’s a lot easier to top yourself when you stretch things out.
After all your years in the business, are you surprised at all to be in this spot – headlining a pay-per-view?
Not really, man, because I know more than anything that I have a really cool connection with the fans. That’s been my No. 1 as far as getting me to where I’m at right now. You can’t go wrong with reading the fans and letting them tell you who they like. I think that’s really paid off for me in the long run – being down to earth and just really cool with each and every fan that I meet, and they’ve really supported me through thick and thin. Stepping up to the plate as far as being 100 percent committed to wrestling, too, has really showed my maturity to the company. Just knowing that I don’t have time to write music or paint or ride motorcycles. I’m pretty much 100 percent consumed by WWE. They’ve put me in a spot that’s one of the biggest I’ve ever been in, and I’m just trying to roll with it.
From a professional standpoint, can you describe what the past couple months have been like for you?
It’s been great. There’s been a lot of pressure to live up to whatever their expectations are. Being a top guy, there’s a lot of pressure and stress that comes with being in situations like this. I think I’ve lived up to their expectations, and, hopefully, I’ll continue to do that, with my promos maturing as well and just me getting in more of that comfort zone to be able to go out there and talk on the mic and be confident in it. I think more than anything it’s real important for me just to still be myself and not let any stressful mentality get to me. Being myself is what got me to where I am.
Is it fair to say you lost your passion for the business a few years ago? And if so, how did you get it back?
Yeah, I think it’s extremely fair to say I lost my passion when I first left WWE. Getting it back – I don’t know if I’ll ever have it (pauses). When I fully most had it was when Matt and I were first trying to make it to the big time. Back in those days it was off the charts. Then it becomes a job and you do it so much and things get old. Now, more than anything what’s brought my passion back is just knowing that I can be where I am now, and knowing that before I came back and now being here. Being in one of the main events at the Royal Rumble – you know, this is something I’m good at so why not take advantage of that while I can and do it until I can’t.
Earlier, you referred to your promos maturing, and you do seem more comfortable on the mic. Is that something that you’ve had to work at to get better?
The more I do it, the more natural it feels. When I first started talking, it was hard not to be nervous. But now, it seems like I’m more nervous before I go out there. When I get in the ring, it’s like I’m all cool and collected. Remembering certain things that you have to get across is always tough, but it feels like it’s maturing really naturally for me, and I do feel confident that the more I do it, the better I’ll get. I’ll eventually one day find that comfort zone for me to just be able to go out there and talk forever and explain whatever description I need to get across.
What was working it like working with Triple H?
It was kind of a nerve-wracking experience, man, because I knew I had to go out there and go a long while with Triple H. I’ve worked him in the past, but this was a totally different scenario because I’m out there with him for like 20-25 minutes. It was a lot of pressure, man. Once that match was over, I was extremely happy it was over because I was a little creeped out going into that match. I think it turned out decent. A lot of times I feel like anything can be a lot better once you review your tapes, but it was good for what it was worth.
A feud between you and your brother, Matt, has been teased in the past in WWE, but they never went all the way with it. Is that something that you would be interested in doing?
Oh, yeah, definitely. I think somewhere around WrestleMania 25 would be really cool to have a Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy match. I was a huge fan of the Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart matches back in the day and the brotherly feud. I think Matt and I could really have a good long natural feud with the old brother vs. brother scenario.
Just out of curiosity, if that were to happen, do you see yourself as the face or the heel in that feud?
Honestly, I think it could go either way, man. Matt’s had his V-1 time and his little heel moment, but it seems like there’s a lot of people out there that think I might not even get away with being a heel, but down the road I think that’s definitely something that could possibly happen and be really good.
How much would it mean for you to win the WWE title at the Royal Rumble on Sunday?
Oh, it would be a dream come true, and it would complete my collection of titles – I would have held every title in the company. That would be extremely cool, man, and it would be another boost for me. Just having the responsibility of walking around with that title would really scream to me, “Man, you’ve done it. Here we are.” Either way, if I win or lose, I still feel like a champion no matter what.
Here is the second half of the interview I conducted last week with former WWE star Rob Van Dam, who was calling from his Los Angeles home.
What are your thoughts on the drug testing in WWE?
From personal experience, being tested probably five or six times at least in the year, year-and-a-half that I was there and they were testing, it felt like it was very violating. For them to actually go inside my body and take my urine and then tell me if they’re OK with what I’m taking, it’s all very violating. At the same time, I do realize the goal behind it, hopefully, is to help people. And there ar
