I laughed out loud when I saw your remark about "charisma and ring skills" not being considered...before even opening the article, I knew that meant that McCool was number one!

No Natalya???????

RESPONSE FROM KE: She barely wrestled. She spent most of her time as the valet of The Hart Dynasty.

By not including independent female wrestlers you not only do a disservice to independent wrestling but also cheat readers of an opportunity to seek out the work of these wrestlers such as the women from Shimmer. You know the women that actually wrestle! But then again I rarely agree with you to begin with so expectations that you would actually watch a decent product would be far fetched.

If attributes such as charisma, promo skills and in-ring ability WERE taken into account, this Top 20 would be cut in half for me (in no particular order):

1. Mickie James 2. Beth Phoenix 3. Melina 4. Gail Kim 5. Sarita 6. Kong 7. Hamada 8. Daffney 9. Angelina Love 10. Madison Rayne

And if you were to count independent wrestlers, you could look to the Shimmer roster with Cheerleader Melissa, MsChif, Wesna, Sara Del Ray, Alison Danger, Daizee Haze, Portia Perez and Nicole Matthews (to name but a few) who are vastly superior wrestlers to most Divas and Knockouts. And especially Michelle McCool.

Kevin, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this blog and these lists, but I have to question your motivation for doing this type of PWI list. Ring Posts is a decidedly non-kayfabe blog, while PWI treats everything as kayfabe. This seems to contradict the general philosophy of your blog. Besides, anytime you do a list like this, you're gonna get grief from the supposed smarks who are borderline illiterate and whine and moan about why McCool is #1 even when she sucks as a performer.

I'm not complaining that you do do these types of lists, but still...

RESPONSE FROM KE: The whole point of lists is to spark debate. None of them should be taken too seriously or as absolute.

If it weren't for Barry's post, I wouldn't be able to name a member of Shimmer's roster, and I suspect that I wouldn't be the only one. It wouldn't make sense to include such an obscure promotion in a list where the spotlight is the primary criterion.

Well, do a non-kayfabe list because that will probably generate more debate. I mean, considering how much the WWE has pushed Michelle McCool, I don't see how anyone can debate anything about the number one pick on the kayfabe list.

I´m surprised Gail Kim even made it onto your list. I think I´ve seen more matches involving Jillian Hall (who´s not on the list) than Gail Kim.

Did Mr Undertaker threaten you with indoor lightning and spooky noises?

Gail Kim is #1 in my book no matter where she falls on any list. For in ring ability, determination, charisma, and pure talent there is absolutely no other professional wrestling woman who outshines or outperforms Ms. Kim.

Thinking back a few years to when Gail Kim and Awesome Kong had their amazing feud, it makes me sad to look at the state of wrestling (and not just woman's wrestling) now.

Well, I'm not sure how long it took you to put that list together, Kevin, but if your ultimate goal was to waste some portion of time, you really knocked this one out of the park. For one, it's kayfabed, which we usually don't do here. When you remark that charisma and ring skills, and such, will not be considered, I immediately think, "Well, what else is there to being a wrestler?!" Also, to be fairly blunt about it, I couldn't care any less about women's wrestling. In fact, I wish it would go away, entirely. Nothing says bathroom break to me like the obligatory Diva's segment every Monday night during Raw. Make 'em into managers, or valets, or what have you, but keep these hacks out of the ring. All they're good for is exposing the business, anyways.

You must have been looking at the Alexis Texas Ad to long.
Where's Eve. She won the belt last year and she doesn't beat out Daffney???

RESPONSE FROM KE: Eve is No. 8.

lol...I know she had the women's title, but has Layla ever even won a match?

I have to agree with Marc and Barry. The ommission of wrestlers from anywhere outside of WWE and TNA is not a fair represntation.

I saw Sara Del Ray on Ring of Honor recently and immediately realized she was better than any of the "divas" with prominent roles in the WWE right now.

And while I did enjoy some of the Knockouts matches on TNA, the "Fingerpoke of Death II" incident ruined the division for me.

It does bring an interesting topic to light: Why isn't Ring of Honor featured here? Having watched wrestling since Hogan won his first WWF title, ROH holds my attention for every minute on their shows.

Their perfomers just give everything they have every show and do unique manuevers in the ring. (El Generico recently finished a very good cage match with a submission on the top of a steel cage.)
They have a tag team division far better than WWE and deeper than TNA and it is truly tag-team wrestling with innovative team manuevers (thanks to Jim Cornette). You can clearly see how much their athletes want to put on a good show as opposed to how many t-shirts they can sell.

ROH reminds me a lot of the NWA when it was the substance to the WWF's style. TNA used to have the argument but they've now gone back to everything that was horribly bad about WCW.

Worse yet, they managed to do it within a week ala the anti-climatic and transparent "They" story line, a far too large group of heels, ridiculous title changes and dumb character wrestlers trying to get cheap pops and heat.

And they are just doing some very sloppy minor stuff that makes no sense. "Fourtune" with six members? C'mon.

Trying to jump on the Jersey Shore phenom by making worthless characters and then featuring a guest appearance by J-Woww DURING A TELECAST OF JERSEY SHORE? Foolish.

The Reaction show which was originally designed and sold as a behind-the-scenes type of show which made it unique is now just a carry-over from Impact in a matter of weeks?

TNA just doesn't get it.

All I can say to prove my point is this: I DVR all the shows. I usually delete TNA - especially after the 10/14 show and I'll be removing it from my programming list.
With WWE, I can take or leave some of the matches. But with Ring of Honor, I watch every minute without fail.

I'm sure there is a reason that you don't cover ROH, but I think you're slighting the readers of your blog. It is a GREAT blog but ROH should be featured.

I would be willing to bet that ROH will still be promoting shows after TNA is long gone. In my opinion, ROH and its performers deserve more of your respect in this blog.

And I apologize for a typo - it is Sara Del Rey. Of course saw it right when I hit "Post". :)

With Michelle taking the top spot, I'm sure Lay-cool will declare themselves co-#1s of the list...

What ?!! No one from Nexus on this list ?!! ...thank you thank you..'applause'

I like the lists! Wow, someone was angry at you for not watching Shimmer? Wasn't GLOW in the 80's enough?

When I hit the lottery, Ring Posts will be your full-time job. Then you can follow every single wrastlin league.

Everybody's got a price!

I agree with your list for the most part. The people saying "what about Shimmer and the indies!?!?!" need to realize the criteria for this list. The smaller feds are overall less important in the grand scheme of things so their performers, while talented, are not making the impact that the talent in WWE and TNA are making.

RESPONSE FROM KE: My point exactly. Trust me, I know wrestlers such as Sara Del Ray, MsChif, Cheerleader Melissa, Daizee Haze and others can outwork a lot of the women on this list, but it isn't about that. Ask a casual fan (not a wrestling junkie) who Kelly Kelly is, and then ask them who Sara Del Ray is. Like it or not, Kelly Kelly is higher in the pecking order because she works for the No. 1 company and SDR is working indys.

I stand corrected

C'mon, the whole thing is a joke.

Nobody watches to see the women's wrestling skills these days. It 99.9% entertainment only, especially with teh women.

So the ones who people find most entertaining (for whatever reason) should be at the top of the list. Charisma and promo skills are two of the things that do matter. The other things that matter are not politically correct to identify. So the whole thing is a total farce even by pro wrestling standards.

Ryan if you like Glow they have new episodes of Wrestlelicious which you can find online.

As for your comment about being angry at Kevin for these lists. I'm not angry at Kevin, however there are not many wrestling blogs on mainstream newspapers websites. As being one of the only in the country I personally believe he not only should cover your wwe's and tna's but also show casual fans that there are other up and coming wrestlers in the independents that you can easily access footage online. Instead Kevin caters to a rapidly declining fan base that is losing interest in a stale product instead of shining the spotlight on fantastic workers both male and female on the independents begging to be seen by fans.

And just to clarify why I wrote my original post, if one person now goes on youtube and seeks out a shimmer match they may become a fan and thus helps out the entire business. Something I wish the writer of this blog would do.

Sara Del Rey also looks like a man while Kelly Kelly may very well be the hottest woman on the planet.

Having a debate about someone's opinion about a sport that isn't real to begin with is all kinds of funny.

Though I don't understand the hatred of Michelle McCool. I think she's a great worker and I find her entertaining. She's a pain and I like that.

Your blog's great, Kevin, but a list of this type on Ring Posts provokes debate over what kind of list you should be doing rather than who should be on it and what their positions should be. It's too straightforward to see who's had the most wins, held a championship the longest, etc. It would be much more thought-provoking if instead you did a list that ONLY considered charisma, promo skills, and in-ring ability. I believe the resulting discussion would be far more interesting.

@ Mark - I think Kevin explained before that he doesn't cover ROH because he doesn't get HDNet...Can't write your opinion of show, when you don't get the channel to view it....Correct me if I'm wrong Eck...

I don't know why people hate on Michelle McCool. The lady is, IMO, a very good wrestler.

WOW....gees, I thought I ticked you off when I went rogue on Lou Albano a few weeks ago.......now that seems incidental compared to the heat you have drawn here!

I would have preferred a list ranking who you think are the best women rasslers - rather than what's basically a ranking of who's gotten the best push by their employers.

No NXT Rookies...

RESPONSE FROM KE: I haven't watched this week's show yet. From what I've heard, I didn't miss anything.

KONG 18? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?

RESPONSE FROM KE: Do you think she's too low or too high? She left TNA in January, so she wasn't on the scene for the last seven months of the grading period. Even when she was active, she did not have a run as TNA Knockouts champ.

Where is my barefooted girl LACEY!!! WOOOOOOO

Did someone kidnap Eck for putting McCool at number one? No post since this went up...

Where's Lacey? She should get in on looks alone.

"As being one of the only in the country I personally believe he not only should cover your wwe's and tna's but also show casual fans that there are other up and coming wrestlers in the independents that you can easily access footage online."

___________________________________

A list based largely on visibility and name recognition isn't the the right forum for that. A "twenty best performers whom you may not have heard of" list would be a more appropriate place to start.

Good analysis here except for a few things, Layla at #5 is way too high, and if she's there Jillian Hall should be on the list.

Also, no Michael Cole on the list? C'mon!

RESPONSE FROM KE: Layla held the title for 109 days; Jillian held it for one. Layla has won her share of matches; Jillian never wins. Layla is featured prominently as part of LayCool; Jillian is an afterthought.

@ Marc - I don't think Kevin is getting paid to be the press agent for Shimmer. Heck, IIRC, he's not getting paid at all for this blog; I think it's a fun thing he likes to do on the side, given his history with wrestling and his connections in the industry.

Along these lines, it is the indies and small federation's (Shimmer, RoH) job to get themselves in the eye of the mainstream press. Take out a massive bank loan, buy some TV time and aggressively tour. That's how pretty much every fed expanded way back when, and the game hasn't changed. I don't think casual fans should be castigated for not knowing how awesome Nigel McGuiness is when his federation isn't trying to compete in the same market as WWE.

Ranking any wrestler (sports entertainer), on their record, is like ranking actors, who play doctors on TV, based on their number of successful surgeries.