Answering critics of the Ring Posts 20
I knew when I compiled the list for the Ring Posts 20 that I was going to get a lot of heat for the placement of certain wrestlers. It goes without saying that lists such as this one are extremely subjective. What makes them fun is that everyone has a different opinion, and I enjoy the debates. I swear, though, that some people just don’t read the criteria no matter how explicit I try to make it.
I’m going to repeat it one more time. The list was based on: titles won, major feuds, won-loss records, quality of opponents, prominence within their individual promotion, activity and overall ability. I treated pro wrestling as if it were an actual competition and not scripted entertainment. Therefore, I did not take into account attributes such as charisma, promo skills and whether someone is or isn’t a “great worker.” I also did not factor in backstage politics, who is married to the boss’ daughter, et cetera.
Now that we got that out of the way (again), I’ll address the two most controversial selections – Triple H at No. 1 and Vladimir Kozlov at No. 17.
Given the criteria, I don’t see how anyone but Triple H could be in the top spot (he also was No. 1 in the PWI 500). Let’s look at his resume during the grading period (July 31, 2008 to Aug. 1, 2009):
• Began the period as WWE champion. Overall, he had two title reigns and was champion for 185 days. Only Sting (189 days) held a world title longer during the period.
• Neither of his reigns were ended in a one-on-one match (it was in a triple threat and a six-man tag)
• Pinned The Undertaker to regain the WWE title in the Elimination Chamber match
• Pinned Randy Orton to successfully defend the WWE title in the main event at WrestleMania
• Defeated world heavyweight champion Chris Jericho and ECW champion Matt Hardy in a triple threat battle of champions
• Pinned Jeff Hardy on consecutive pay-per-views to retain the title
• Was the last man eliminated in the Royal Rumble
As for Kozlov, yes, he has limited ring skills, but style points don’t count on this list. Here’s a look at his accomplishments:
• Pinned The Undertaker
• Pinned Jeff Hardy
• Wrestled against Triple H and Edge in a triple threat match for the WWE title at the Survivor Series
• Wrestled Triple H, The Undertaker and The Big Show in a fatal four-way match that ended in a no-contest
• Wrestled in the Elimination Chamber match for the WWE title
• Did not suffer his first defeat in singles competition until losing to Shawn Michaels in March
• Pinned ECW champion Matt Hardy in a nontitle match
Since most of those who took issue with my list seemed to be basing their rankings more on who they believe has the most all-around talent, I have decided to do yet another list. Unlike The Ring Posts 20, this list will rank the top 20 all-around performers during the same grading period, taking into account in-ring ability, charisma, promo skills, star power and position on the card. Wrestling will be regarded as entertainment, so wins and losses will not be much of a factor.
I'll post it some time next week.
Comments
Wish you'd stop being so good to us Cap'n...
Posted by: Walter B Hollman | August 28, 2009 1:11 PM
Hopefully indy wrestlers get the credit they deserve on this one. There really is no argument for not listing Austin Aries, among others, on this list.
Posted by: Joe | August 28, 2009 2:09 PM
"this list will rank the top 20 all-around performers during the same grading period, taking into account in-ring ability, charisma, promo skills, star power and position on the card"
This idea intrigued me, so I spent a few minutes throwing mine together:
1. Jericho
2. Orton
3. Michaels
4. Angle
5. J. Hardy
6. Edge
7. Cena
8. Punk
9. HHH
10. Undertaker
11. Sting
12. Foley
13. Joe
14. Big Show
15. Batista
16. Rey
17. Styles
18. Swagger
19. Kofi
20. Santino
Santino's promo skills are strong enough to make up for his lack in every other category (unless celebrations count).
Punk might deserve to be higher, he just didn't have his optimal personage until later in the year.
Morrison, Miz, Matt Hardy, Matt Morgan, Scott Steiner, MVP were all within reach.
Posted by: Andrew | August 28, 2009 2:50 PM
Okay, since you reposted your criteria for the rankings and actually defended the selection of Kozlov at #17, I have to say I still disagree with you. Yes, Kozlov did pin Matt Hardy, but Matt did hold a title during the time listed, as did Booker (don't really care much for it, but it was a title). That being said both of them should be ranked ahead of Kozlov because, in order to win a title, one must beat people to get there (to be the man, you have to beat the man). Therefore, more weight must be given to the titleholder than the contender because the titleholder is facing stiffer competition, night in and night out. There is no run of scrubs in Matt's or Booker's year that would even approach the number of jobbers that Kozlov beat at the beginning of this time frame.
Thanks for the list Kev. It is a conversation starter and it fun to get your insight.
RESPONSE FROM KE: In my opinion, scoring clean wins over Undertaker and Jeff Hardy and competing for the world title on PPV against the likes of Triple H and Edge is more impressive than holding the title of the "C" show.
Posted by: cubfan300 | August 28, 2009 4:50 PM
andrew,
gotta give you credit for including santino.
the fact that he is the go to guy for humor in the biggest organization is a huge factor that should not be overlooked.
Posted by: ryan b | August 28, 2009 7:09 PM
Kev, no need to defend you choices. If you gave us the guidelines concerning how you will judge your picks. So the list is ABSOLUTLEY correct! I think the critics of the list are in such a hurry to express themselves that they are not taking a long look at the criteria. This is not a post your favorites list.
Posted by: rob the barber | August 28, 2009 9:26 PM
Kevin, why don't you just base it on who you thought actually had a good year instead of copying the PWI system?
Posted by: Elevation | August 28, 2009 10:43 PM