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April 15, 2009

Thoughts on Vince McMahon ESPN piece, ECW

We’ve all seen movie trailers that were great and then been disappointed with the movie. That’s the way I felt after watching the E:60 piece on Vince McMahon on ESPN Tuesday night.

It wasn’t a bad piece, it just didn’t live up to the hype. Of course, it’s hard to do justice to someone as complex as the WWE chairman in 15 minutes.

If you’re a wrestling fan, there wasn’t any significant new ground broken. The stuff about Vince’s stepfather abusing him was chronicled in the book Sex, Lies and Headlocks.

The tease of ESPN’s unprecedented access into the inner workings of WWE’s creative process ended up being just a short glimpse of a production meeting in which McMahon, the writers and producers were going over a script. The biggest reveal for casual fans probably was that Triple H sits in on those meetings, but, again, “smart” fans already knew that.

I thought the silliest thing about the segment was Stephanie not wanting to reveal the identities of the writers, like it’s top secret information. When Jeremy Shaap pressed her, she said that they had people “from Conan” and “from Hollywood.” God forbid she should say one of the head writers (Michael Hayes) was a famous pro wrestler.

It wasn’t a total puff piece, as Schaap did ask McMahon questions about Chris Benoit and steroids, and Bret Hart and Mike Mooneyham (co-author of Sex, Lies and Headlocks) certainly didn’t praise McMahon. You know you can always count on Hart when you need a bitter ex-wrestler to make a negative remark, although some of his comments are not without merit.

***

Tuesday’s episode of ECW was good, thanks to entertaining matches between John Morrison and Evan Bourne and a triple threat between Christian, Finlay and Tommy Dreamer that was part of the Elimination Chase.

The Morrison-Bourne match – which Morrison won – was especially good. It was great that they were given nearly 20 minutes to do their thing instead of it having to be a rushed spotfest.

The triple threat was well-booked. Eliminating Dreamer and having it come down to a singles match between Christian and Finlay (which will take place on the debut episode of WWE Superstars Thursday night on WGN America) was the right call.

Other thoughts on Tuesday night’s show:

It seemed as if new ECW general manager Tiffany was flirting with ECW champion Jack Swagger. Stinks to be Ricky Ortiz, who was sent to Smackdown in the supplemental draft.

Josh Matthews sounds nervous and tentative doing play-by-play. Then again, I’d be nervous, too, if I was a young guy doing commentary on live television with Vince McMahon screaming at me in my ear. ...

Matt Striker made several jokes about Matthews’ nosebleed on Raw. I thought blood was banned in WWE.

***

NOTE: I’m running a little behind, so my thoughts on the WWE supplemental draft won’t be up until later Wednesday night.

Posted by Kevin Eck at 8:07 PM | | Comments (21)
        

Comments

Good show last night.

ECW should really be the WWE televised development product. They should change the format, therefore it would give fans and "smart marks" a reason to tune is because we are looking for the next break out star to get moved up.

Why did it look like Morrison took some serious shots last night.

Kevin, you're doing a great job. Just remember to take a step back every now and then... oh yeah and breathe!!! We appreciate you for what you do!!!

The Christian/Finlay match is on Superstars tomorrow night (and it was actually taped in between ECW and Smackdown last night in Knoxville).

RESPONSE FROM KE: Absolutely right. They said that on ECW. Thanks for reminding me. I will correct it on the post.

Completely agree on the Bourne-Morrison match. i thought it was outstanding. Too bad they won't be able to start a program together now that Morrison is gone.

I thought the ESPN piece was interesting, but I have never read the book you referenced. I was disappointed that he kicked ESPN out of the production meeting just as they were getting to the interesting parts of the meeting, but I guess I understand the need. It's too bad they didn't go more in depth about the steroids and other substance abuse issues. I learned more about Vince's treatment of those problems during your interview today with Kevin Nash. It really is impressive that Vince is trying so hard to help former employees that may have left the company bitter with their struggles

Bret Hart loses his brother, his brother-in-law, one of his best friends (Dynamite), his own health, and a fair share of his dignity, and the WWF/E is not without blame. Are you suggesting that he get over it?

It is hard not to "side" with either Hart or Michaels, and I have more respect for Hart has a human being, caveat emptor. Moreover, I will refrain from passing judgment on Michaels. But to imply that Hart has been anything less than classy- particularly after the last few weeks' distant flirtations with Michaels- is patently unfair.

wasn't finlay in the meeting too? it might have been someone who looks like him, but i thought it was him. i agree with the announcers on last night's show that the morrison-bourne match last night is a match of the year candidate. by far one of the best matches on ecw this year, but too bad morrison is going back to smackdown

RESPONSE FRROM KE: Yes, Finlay is one of the producers (formerly referred to as agents).

i was very dissapointed in the peice i have not read the book so i did not know about McMahons earlier childhood b ut thought it was funny when Steph was talking about the writers for their shows and then when they went over the script was the Mcmajhons John Ace HHH, Hayes Finley and a couple of other people anyway whaty made the most disappointed was when Vince kicked out ESPN in the middle of the segment nothing really new was learned and I think what Bret said wasn't that hateful. also i thought ECW was really good last night i was surprised that Bourne lost though as much as they hyped him during his injury and return back I was also upset that dreamer lost I would have liked to see Dreamer and Swagger go at it at backlash which would have probably be Tommy last PPV because we know hes not going to win the ECW title by June i thought it might be a nice going away present for the last surviving wrestler from ECW now that only Styles is left from the original once he leaves

I interviewed Hart on my radio show a few months back and he didn't seem bitter at all. He seems perfectly at peace living in Hawaii and told me at the time that he was even enjoying the Shane/Stephanie/Orton/HHH storyline.

My God if I was Bret, I would be bitter as hell at the WWE for their irresponsibility at Owen's death and for the way Vince completely lied to Bret before the Montreal Incident took place.

I'd also be bitter about being ranked below Hunter on a Top 25 stars of WrestleMania list after that stinker of match he had at WM 25.

A Swagger-Tiffany-Alfonso Ribiero love triangle would be a marked improvement over the Edge-Vickie-Big Show angle we endured earlier this year. But would you rather see the Carlton Banks dance or a D.J. Gabriel dance?

Also noticed that Finley was in the meeting.

Striker cracking on Matthews' nosebleed was hilarious. I'm surprised he got away with that.

I thought the same thing about the ESPN piece. It's also hard to tell when Vince is "in character" and not. That line is so blurred. I think he also missed a great opportunity to when asked about steroids and their testing policy. Schapp said why do they have a policy since they are an entertainment organization and movies and TV shows don’t have similar policies. Vince could have said that they do it because they care about the wrestlers’ well being, etc., but instead he just said basically they were forced to do it by the government.
I did enjoy the piece they did on the batting stances. It was hilarious when they were trying to figure out how many Cal had. It was good to see former O’s Eric Davis, Will Clark and Billy Ripken on the show.

Hey Kev, didn't you think that production meeting, or whatever segment of it Vince allowed to be filmed was SO FAKE. Like seriously, Michael Hayes was reading out the MAIN EVENTS of WrestleMania to the production team as if they were newbies to pro wrestling who didn't even know what the championships were "And for the WORLD Heavyweight Championship, we have Edge defending against..." like I would think the production team would know that by then!! (LOL!!). It seemed like they were just playing for the ESPN cameras with cliche "production meeting" type behavior, perhaps to fulfill a contractual obligation with ESPN to "show" a production meeting in progress... and then waiting for ESPN to leave before the real meeting begins.
Is it just me or did anyone else get the same vibe?

I interviewed Hart on my radio show a few months back and he didn't seem bitter at all. He seems perfectly at peace living in Hawaii and told me at the time that he was even enjoying the Shane/Stephanie/Orton/HHH storyline.

My God if I was Bret, I would be bitter as hell at the WWE for their irresponsibility at Owen's death and for the way Vince completely lied to Bret before the Montreal Incident took place.

I'd also be bitter about being ranked below Hunter on a Top 25 stars of WrestleMania list after that stinker of match he had at WM 25.

Posted by: Elevation

thanks for the info - Elevation. I watched the program only coz i wanted to watch Bret and get a sense of how he is doin (YES M A MARK AND PROUD TO SAY SO ). Brets is alright I guess. I guess there is a cerain mystique about him now becoz he has stuck to his words about neverto return for any sort of appearance to the WWE. About Triple H , it is totally Kevin's Opinion which I respect, to put him ahead of Hart , but i i guess he realises why people where whining and complaining so much esp. after the "Wrestlemania 25 ' Main Event. My Top 5 WWE Wrestlers of all time in random order are Bret , Hogan , StoneCold , Undertaker and Shawn Micheals( NO TRIPLE H , even if he becomes a 32 time champion!! )

You were not the only who was disappointed. I was too. I recorded it on DVR so I can watch it when I got home from work. I could have went to wikipedia to get the information that I heard on the show. We've all heard the same story over and over again. I am still surprised that Vince is still talking about the abuse that he went through as a child. In a way I think that is why he is who he is.

actually frank, rey mysterio and chris jericho are also ecw originals still in wwe.

also, i just heard that tna has signed that former world champion they were talking about last week. there are 4 possibilities of who i thought it could be: tazz, ric flair, terry funk, or rob van dam. most people think it's tazz, but i thought about it today and realized that rvd is a former champ that could have signed

Err... to the user who commented on Bret Hart (user Elevation), I totally disagree with your post in regards to HBK and Bret Hart. Sure, I understand Bret Hart harboring a grudge with the WWE company as a whole and not wanting to show up on their television shows for that reason but I see absolutely no reason for him to continue harboring a grudge with HBK for the Montreal Screwjob. That would be ridiculous and it is not hard to take anyone's side on that issue. HBK has apologized numerous times for that incident and besides it was all brought on by Vince McMahon in the first place he Bret Hart forgave a long time ago.

Elevation, I would understand your statement if you hadn't brought up him and Michaels. Hwoever, Michaels had nothing to do with Owen Hart's death and he certainly did what he was instructed to do by his boss in 1997. The man at the head of all that is a man that Hart is good terms with and that is Vince McMahon.

If Bret Hart doesn't want to show up on WWE television or induct WWE superstars in the Hall of Fame because of Vince and how the company as a whole has treated him, I can sympathize with that but if he is still holding a grude against Michaels who has apologized numerous times for something that happened over a decade ago for listening to the boss who Hart is on good terms with, that's ridiculous.

Bottomline! There are no sides to take on that issue as Bret Hart has recently stated he's willing to clear the air with HBK and if there was a side to take and Bret Hart was still holding a grudge against HBK, I would side with HBK based on my above comments.

You really need to get off Bret's back. He is not bitter in the slightest. Its not his fault interviewers ask about Montreal all the f'n time. Lets forget about SS97 a moment, from 1997-2003, Bret lost Brian, Owen, Rick Rude, His mom, Davey Boy, Curt, and his dad, Stu.

Kevin, can you even began to comprehend such a wave of personal tragedy? No human should have to deal with that in their lifetime, nevermind half a dozen years. Add to that his concussion, which prevents him from doing what he loves, and a stroke. 7 close friends/family, and two health related mishaps, and you call this guy bitter? He carries himself with nothing but dignity all the time.

I can only hope, Kevin, that you never have experience half, no, a third of the personal tragedies Bret Hart has had to deal with.

Lay off him, Kevin. The only one who sounds anyway bitter is you.

RESPONSE FROM KE: I have nothing to be bitter about, first off.

I agree that Hart has been through more personal trauma than anyone should have to endure, but he was bitter back in 1997 before Owen, the concussions and the stroke.

I totally disagree that he carries himself with dignity. His ridiculous rant against a wrestling writer at a Hall of Fame ceremony last year was classless. Compare Hart''s behavior with that of Kevin Von Erich, who was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame a couple weeks ago. No one has been through more tragedy than him, and yet he harbored no bitterness and he did carry himself with dignity.

Take off the pink and black Hitman shades and try seeing that your hero has flaws.

In responde to Kevin's reply to my previous comment-

Everyone has flaws, and yes, Bret fits very nicely into the everyone category. But, after viewing the ESPN video you are reffering to for a second time, could you please explain to me what part of Bret's (38 word momolouge) was "bitter"?

You want bitter, you got Ric Flair-The guy has done nothing but shoot after shoot after shoot since WM24.

RESPONSE FROM KE: It was something along the lines of Vince running the wrestlers into the ground and then discarding them. As I wrote, it's not that his comments are totally without merit, but the wrestling business isn't any different in that regard than other forms of entertainment. In contrast, when I did an interview with Kevin Nash a few days ago, he talked about how Vince is unfairly demonized and how Vince made him a rich man.


But Kevin, thats true, for the guys who aren't main eventers, there is nothing left after wrestling. Ten years time, HHH will be in a nice backstage job, but where may...Kofi Kingston, or Brian Kendrick be?

I just think its so easy for people to hang on to the old cliche of " Bret Hart is bitter" without actually looking into it. Infact, this past year more than ever, Bret has denounced the events of Montreal and said time and time again he has moved on, and he is HAPPY. Just because he doesn't want to appear on WWE TV, doesn't make him bitter.

I remember the uproar when he didn't show up at Wrestlemania 22-what many people don't know is that showing up at WM22 would have required Bret to sign a "no compete" contract, which lasted thirty days. Bret has said that since SS97, and especially since Owen's fall, he would never work for the WWE again. By showing up at 'Mania, he would be legally required to sign the afformentioned contract-giving Vince McMahon creative control over Bret Hart for a month.

Hart is a man of principal, if he doesn't wanna do something, fair play to him-well done for sticking to your word for over a decade.

As for the Shawn argument a few comments above, you have to remember Bret was raised into a respectful wrestling family. He and Michaels come from two very different wrestling backgrounds. If the SS97 was reversed, Bret would not have done the same thing to Shawn, that is where the problem lies. Bret's problem is that one of his collegues looked him in the eye, said one thing, and did another. Bret wasn't raised into that kind of disrespectful behaviour.

You can argue all you like about bret not doing the job, that is opinion, there are two stone cold facts in this.

1) Bret did job to Shawn at WM12, the absoloute biggest event to job to anyone, whats more, he jobbed clean.
2) Shawn refused to job back to Bret, and told him that face to face-that is thee single biggest slap in the face any wrestler can give to another, especially after what Bret did for Shawn at WM12.

If Bret ever forgives Shawn, it will be his choice-but please, do not think that just because he doesn't, it makes him bitter. Shawn displayed the upmost unprofessionalism to Bret, not Earl Hebner, not even Vince, but Shawn did for lying to Bret.

When it comes to SS97, I always think of it as this. Undertaker and Foley were mega-pissed with what went down, two of the most professional guys in the history of the business. They knew it was wrong, because it was.

I think it's far too easy to tar Bret with the "bitter" brush, same as it's easy to call Rock a "sell out". It just is not true.

ECW's in-ring action was solid, but my highest praise for Tuesday's episode is that there was no show-hogging recap of Raw.

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About Kevin Eck
The Baltimore Sun's Kevin Eck blogs about professional wrestling.
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