Thoughts on new TNA world champ Samoa Joe
As far back as two years ago, the question was when, not if, Samoa Joe would become TNA world champion. One could argue that TNA crossed the fine line between building interest in Joe’s chase for the title and waiting too long to pull the trigger.
Joe finally captured the title last night when he defeated Kurt Angle at the Lockdown pay-per-view. The match, which was booked as a hybrid of MMA and pro wrestling, was the payoff to a fantastic buildup the past few weeks on Impact. By putting over Joe clean, Angle made good on something he told me in an interview two weeks ago.
“I’m the top guy and I’m not stopping anyone from coming up and taking my place. I want somebody to come up and take my place,” he said. “Me and [Samoa] Joe are going to have a great match on pay-per-view. I want him to look better than I look so that his value goes up.”
The real question is whether Samoa Joe is the right guy to be given an opportunity to take Angle’s place. Personally, I’m not sold on the idea.
As I stated earlier, it was obvious the way Joe was pushed from his first day in TNA that he was being groomed to be the top guy. And perhaps when Jeff Jarrett was dominating the title scene and TNA was lacking for star power, a favorite of “smart” fans such as Joe was a good choice to be the “chosen one.” But everything changed when Angle left WWE for TNA.
Angle gave TNA instant credibility. When he won the TNA title last June, the company was able to argue for the first time in its existence that its world champion was superior to WWE’s two world champions. I would have kept the title on Angle for a long time until someone special came along who was worthy of having his career made by defeating Angle. As great as the buildup to last night’s match was, I’m just not sure that Joe is that guy.
I know there are a lot of people who will disagree with me, but I just don’t see Samoa Joe in the same league as Kurt Angle. It seems kind of ludicrous that the guy who defeated everyone from “Stone Cold” Steve Austin, to The Rock, to The Undertaker, to Shawn Michaels, to Brock Lesnar, to John Cena, loses to Samoa Joe.
It’s not that I don’t respect Joe. I like that he works “strong style” and I don’t doubt his work ethic or that he’s a tough guy. But he doesn’t look like a superstar and his promos are nothing special. I just don’t think he has that “it” factor, that larger-than-life quality that a world champion should have.
Joe was a great choice to be the Ring of Honor champion and he’s over with the hardcore TNA audience, so he definitely deserves a good spot on the card. But I don’t think TNA will be able to achieve its goal of hooking casual fans with him as the face of the company.







Comments
I agree. I like Samoa Joe, but I felt a guy like Tomko (Before his disastrous heel turn) had the 'it' to be a world champ. He has the look, can talk, and with proper buildup would have been totally believable as the guy emerging from the shadow of Cage or Angle. The way WWE did w/ Batista.
Posted by: Walter Hollman | April 14, 2008 5:11 AM
I think Samoa Joe is the right guy for the top spot right now. Kurt Angle has so much going for him that he doesn't need the belt to be over with the fans. I think Kurt is still the the #1 guy for right now but seeing him with the belt for so long was making him a little stale just like when John Cena carried the belt after awhile fans started booing him because it was the same old routine every time you saw him. If a wrestler has star quality then he sould be given a chance to be the top guy just to see what he can do. I think that was a reason why Kaz gave Kurt a couple good matches because the wanted to build Kaz's character up. It's just like has been saying all along. He wants all the wrestlers to look good and that will build the entire company up to the same level as WWE.
Posted by: Dave | April 14, 2008 8:25 AM
Kevin,
I will admit that I am only a casual fan of TNA, but I think your logic involving Kurt Angle is flawed. You mentioned all these guys that Kurt Angle defeated. They were all WWE superstars. Samoa Joe has never worked the WWE, so he will never have the street cred that an Angle or Christian Cage has. That said, are you really proposing that as a criteria for the TNA champion, because if thats the case, the only guys you could have as champions are survivors of other promotions. At some point you have to let home grown talent get over. Putting the belt on Joe finally puts TNA on some even footing with WWE. They don't have to rely on WWE retreads for their marquis names. The fact that the fans can buy a Samoa Joe victory over Angle says it all. Thats what the business is about...keeping the show fresh and entertaining.
RESPONSE FROM KEVIN ECK: I agree that it would be best for a home-grown talent to defeat Angle. I wasn't proposing Christian or Booker T. That's why I said when someone special comes along who can have his career made by defeating Angle. I'm just not sure Samoa Joe is that guy. I'm not sure that guy is even in TNA right now.
Posted by: Lee | April 14, 2008 9:07 AM
I think this was something TNA had to do from a brand perspective.
Even though Angle is in TNA, everyone knows he came from WWE.
They want Joe to be the face of TNA.
I kinda like it because they're doing what WWE always does, make their guys look better, minus the cruel burial.
Posted by: ATP | April 14, 2008 10:32 AM
With Joe winning the title last night, I believe the question for TNA is not "Is Joe the right guy to take the title" but "Will TNA actually book him to look like a credible champion". Hopefully, Joe's title reign goes the way of Angles and Jarrett's first reign(where he actually faced somewhat credible challengers and had good feuds, instead of not defending the title every month), instead of the path that guys like Raven, Rhino, and to an extent, The Truth. If Joe is lined up to face a series of good challengers, leaving behind the crappy "Oh, I'm your friend but then turn on you" or "We'll name a random challenger who wasn't close to the belt" situations, I think he can thrive as TNA champion. Either that...or Angle wins the belt back on the second Impact taping-_-
Posted by: Jack H | April 14, 2008 10:40 AM
after reading this i agree that somoa joe may not be consider your typical champion but tna is taking a huge chance with him being the main guy now. we just have 2 wait and see how long he holds on to the strap b/c i feel that when he does lose it will be a long time before he gets another title run. so joe might as well enjoy it while he can
Posted by: jason | April 14, 2008 11:05 AM
"I just don’t think he has that “it” factor"
that said it all, I think he stinks,he is just a fat mid carder so to speak.i hope tna can do better than this,because the wwe is old and tired, this is the time for tna to steep up to the big leagues
Posted by: zen | April 14, 2008 12:58 PM
I'm not a fan of Joe's, but I dislike Angle even more. But I think you may be spoiled on WWE's picture perfect champs. Is it really all that different than Orton holding the WWE title?
RESPONSE FROM KEVIN ECK: I think Orton is far better than Joe as a world champion.
Posted by: Mr. Bronson | April 14, 2008 2:00 PM
While I do feel that it was important for TNA to finally put the strap on someone who is a "TNA guy", I'm not expecting a long title run. Joe is much better suited in the "chase" role of the title picture. He shouldn't be the center of it. At least not yet.
My guess is that Joe will go on to beat Scott Steiner at Sacrifice, possibly retain at Slammiversary and then drop the belt soon after. TNA still has too many people they need to put the belt on before Joe gets his long run.
They need to get the belt on Booker T so they can keep his star power up. This will most likely be Sting's last year, so he'll probably get one more run and then lose it clean, giving someone a huge rub. Also, I would imagine that TNA will finally pull the trigger on getting the belt on one of their young heels like Robert Roode, James Storm, Tomko, etc.
RESPONSE FROM KEVIN ECK: I think Robert Roode is on his way to becoming a world champion. I thought Tomko was headed there, too, but the heel turn was a setback. I'm liking James Storm more every time I see him.
Posted by: Christian | April 14, 2008 3:36 PM
It's real that Joe is far from credible as champion, if you compare him with Angle. Furthermore, I agree with you that there is no performer in TNA that could even Angle's image.
But, I think Joe was the right call. It was the right time to left the main guy spot, and Joe's chance, who is not as Angle but the nearest to him in the roster,to pick the flag.
Joe can start from scratch and build credible rivalries where anybody can win.
I don't know if I am clear with this. for example, the chances of Kaz beating Angle as champion were less than minimal.
And I think Joe can cut good promos. It's just that sometimes he sticks up to his "tough guy" persona too much.
Posted by: Gaston | April 14, 2008 4:39 PM
Kevin , I agree that Samoa Joe may not be the right guy at this time . ( personally I'd like to see Scotty Steiner as champ , but that would probably set TNA back many , many steps ) . Joe is good but I never saw what the big deal was with him . Granted , for his size he is very agile and a decent wrestler . Now on the other hand he doesn't cut the greatest promos - when he speaks it just doesn't seem to flow naturally . And as far as the look , lets just say I think todays athlete should look like an athlete . I guess I wouldn't mind someone like Robert Roode ( not to be confused with Rick Rude - that was for you Kev ) get a bigger push .
Posted by: jack in hebron | April 14, 2008 5:58 PM
Samoa Joe is the champ? I thought you said TNA had stopped all of the comedy angles...
Posted by: Sean | April 14, 2008 8:01 PM
Did you know that Samoa Joe is "waste of money" spelled backwards?
Posted by: Mr. Bronson | April 14, 2008 10:08 PM
In regard to hooking casual fans, I don't often watch TNA, but with Samoa Joe as the champion, I just may make more time for Impact. He is one of few TNA characters whom I find compelling.
Posted by: Christopher | April 15, 2008 12:44 AM
While I absolutely agree with you that Samoa Joe isn't the best candidate to hook in new fans, he is a good candidate to retain the current group of fans.
TNA can still hook in new fans because Kurt Angle, Sting, Christian Cage, Booker T, and Kevin Nash are on the roster.
However, they can't risk losing their current fan base because they've grown tired of seeing one guy as champion.
WWE kept John Cena in the top spot for too long and it backfired on them. TNA might risk the same thing by keeping Kurt Angle in the top spot for too long as well.
Excellent post once again, Kevin. You're one of the few true wrestling writers out there.
Posted by: Jack Windham | April 16, 2008 4:53 AM
In response to joe not being the guy to carry TNA i completely disagree, fiar point his promos arent up to scratch but his in ring ability more than makes up 4 that, TNA was never about the 'look' of a champion before, with the likes of A.J. and raven holding the belt (who would never have got a look in in WWE), Somebody said that WWE has gone stale and i comoletely agree and i think if the TNA title only revolved around a choosen few who look the part the company would go the same way...as 4 scott steiner being the next contender, thats confusing as the guy just cant wrestle!!
Posted by: C2K | April 16, 2008 9:34 AM
joe is the man!!!! and will put tna over aot more thin angle!!!
Posted by: kent | April 16, 2008 11:55 AM
i agree with Joe winning the title. Kurt Angle is a legend and everybody knows that but u cant have the same guy as the champ all the time or it justs gets to boring
Posted by: Marnie McGowan | April 17, 2008 1:55 PM
I have to agree with Samoa Joe not really having "it". I mean to me, I see at least 15 guys in the WWE who have more "it" than Samoa Joe. To me, TNA needs a guy who looks like he could hang with the WWE top guys as their champ.
Posted by: King Tony | April 17, 2008 4:59 PM
I like Samoa Joe, I like his ring work, and he isn't absolutely terrible on the stick. I even understand him winning the strap, he's one of the more over guys in the company, he's a homegrown star, and they couldn't afford to keep passing the belt around to former WWE and WCW stars. Still, you're absolutely right, he doesn't have that "it', that makes fans gravitate to him. While being an overall solid performer, he doesn't have one standout quality about him. To be a quality champion, you have to have at least one great quality, preferably more. Yes look is part of it, and he hardly has the "look" of a top shelf guy, nothing about him jumps out as world champion. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be built as something special during his title reign, but that is supposed to be done before you become champion, not after.
Posted by: Joe Barber | April 21, 2008 1:53 PM
I actually feel the same way you do Kevin, although he has the wrestling "skill" he just doesn't have the "It" factor or the look for a world champ.
IMO, There are a few wrestlers in TNA with the It factor at the moment.
1. AJ Styles since his heel turn and his new look he has been beaming with star quality, unfortunately, I feel as though he has settled into his lackey role a little too well. However, with the correct storyline he could become a fantastic champion, because he arguably the most talented wrestler in TNA, he has arguably the best "look in TNA, and his promo skills are constantly increasing.
2. Tomko, this guy also posseses the it factor, and although they screwed him up with the heel turn, he could definitely work a good main event program with joe as it is.
3. James Storm - This guy is Absolutely phenomenal at the moment. Every week his character improves, and althought the drinking cowboy gimmik needs to be "toned doen" a little, he may be on the way to true main event status.
4. Matt morgan, this man has the star quality of AJ Styles, aswell as the stand alone quality that AJ lacks at the moment, I feel as though he would be a prime candidate at the moment for a title run.
These are the only 'fresh" stars I think that would be able to have a run with the world title at the moment. we all know theres people like booker t and christian, but TNA needs someone fresh right now and IMO, just like you said, joe seems to lack star quality.
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oh, just one more thing, to jack windham who thinks AJ doesent have the look, wwe tried to get aj to jump ship last year.....
your thoughts kevin?
RESPONSE FROM KEVIN ECK: Of the people you mentioned, I also like Morgan and Storm. I liked Tomko, but he might not ever be as hot as he was before the heel turn. The guy I really think has star potential is Robert Roode. As for Styles, I have always thought he was incredibly talented, but I am worried that people have gotten so used to him being a lackey that they might not buy him as world champion. And his lack of height hurts him as well.
Posted by: Soldier_J | April 22, 2008 1:23 AM
Samoa Joe is different.Samoa Joe is great for TNA wrestling. Different is good sometimes. When WWE was at its height in the late 90's battling WCW for Monday night ratings.The ECW brand came along with guys that were popular on their show. The Sandman and Sabu was great on ECW but they definitely did not look like they were ready to take on Stone Cold, The Rock, Hogan, NWO, Booker T with or without a kempo stick or tacks but their characters are an essential part of the Classic ECW title scene. Joe is a throwback champ. He is not great on the microphone, but neither is Randy Orton. As far as the fat body comments remember a WWE champion called Mick Foley/ Cactus Jack- bang-bang...
Posted by: The Critic | April 23, 2008 3:50 PM
Samoa Joe is not the man for the job.
Heres my logic. I believe you have to be able to feud with someone outside the ring as well as in. Samoa Joe might have given one or two good interviews or mic times. You also have to be able to do your moves to everyone you wrestle, or at least look like your doing your move to them. where as he could probably not do the muscle buster to Matt Morgan or Kevin Nash, and those two are possibly the title contenders. And not to compare, but look at the past few TNA champions. They're Sting and Kurt Angle. Two highly established, physically fit and charismatic people. Samoa Joe is established in the X-Division, not so physically fit, and is as charismatic as a lump of cookie dough is to the contestants on The Biggest Loser.
*sigh* Sorry for the Rant, people. I just don't like Samoa Joe. I'd think it'd be more credible if maybe Kaz or The Instant Classic got the belt.
Posted by: Dan | May 17, 2008 5:40 PM
I am a TNA fan through and through and personally I think Joe is exactly what TNA needs right now. He is new and fresh. While he may not cut the best promos I think he can hold his own against the best this organization has to offer. But a couple of guys I'd love to see challange him are:
1.A.J.- This guy has been a lackey for long enough and now that he's turned face again I think he's ready to be a world champ.
2.Kaz- What can I say about Kaz? He's just as (if not more) a phenomonal wrestler as A.J. His athlectism makes him a prime canidate.
3. Tomko- He's simply the right guy for the job.Nothing else can be said about him.
Posted by: Dre | June 29, 2008 2:30 PM