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Would you keep Dave Trembley? Why or why not?

We have officially made it to the last week of the Orioles season.

And I am ready to address the elephant in the barroom.

It’s really a two-headed pachyderm.

Will Orioles manager Dave Trembley be fired at season’s end?

Should he be?

My colleagues at The Sun, columnists Peter “The Promised Land’s Ugly American” Schmuck and Kevin “Cat Hater” Cowherd give their differing opinions in Wednesday’s edition. If I were you, I’d check it out.

Now, I am weighing in as well.

I have been waffling on the first question during the past month, and now, as the Orioles are hideously stumbling to the finish line, I’m leaning toward the belief that Trembley will be fired. It’s tough to survive a 100-loss season (or something real close).

The second question I have answered consistently all year: No, Trembley shouldn’t be fired. He didn’t put this team together. He didn’t assemble the bullpen. He didn’t ask for several of his best veteran players to be dealt away or shelved with injuries.

Trembley did what he could with this mess of a roster. Like those before him -- Sam Perlozzo, Lee Mazzilli, Mike Hargrove -- he was handcuffed the moment he said, ‘I do.”

You can make the argument that Trembley has done a better job than those mentioned above. Because, collectively, he probably had less talent to work with, and, for the most part, the players haven’t openly turned against him.

Sure, Trembley made some lineup and pitching moves that could be questioned. But that’s the beauty of baseball. None of us is under the same pressure as the manager and yet we can second-guess his decisions.

The biggest criticism of Trembley is that his players failed miserably when it came to mastering the fundamentals. Yet Trembley’s teams practiced fundamentals more during the season than any other group I have covered. Whose fault is that?

Some of Trembley’s biggest critics within the clubhouse are the same guys who failed to do their job this year. But as the old adage goes, "You can’t fire 25 players."

The only reason to can Trembley now is to change the ever-present “culture of losing.” Yet whoever takes over almost certainly will have to suffer through another terrible season next year. And then that person will be caught in the undercurrent of losing as well. And the cycle, the criticism will continue.

That is until the club has enough horses to compete with the big boys in the AL East. That could be coming, but it isn’t here yet. And won’t arrive next year.

So until then, it doesn’t matter who the manager is. Therefore, it seems unfair to ship out Trembley now to pay for the sins of past regimes.

That’s my $2.02. Give me yours.

Daily Think Special: Would you fire Dave Trembley? Why or why not?



Watch a video of Peter Schmuck and Kevin Cowherd debating whether the Orioles should bring back manager Dave Trembley.


Comments

Sorry, Dave. You're a good baseball man, and will have another job in the game -- just not managing here in Baltimore.

The Orioles have had more losing seasons lately than any of us care to think about. But -- despite the recurrence of the annual second-half swoon -- this was actually a real rebuilding year. Now, Andy needs to supplement the pieces that he inherited and put in place -- Roberts, Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Weiters, and several young, talented starters -- with one or two corner infielders, some bullpen help, maybe another starter... and a new manager. The team needs a fresh start, a spark, to shed its losing way.

With a good off-season, next season could finally be a winner.

Trembley should be fired! The young players need a breath of fresh air and someone stronger to lead them to become winners. Trembley may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time but life and sports are not always fair. The pieces are being out into place for the future and the O's need to make a clean sweep to completly change the culture of losing.

No, I'd fire Angelos

Trembley needs to go and not let the door hit him in the behind.

This guy is long on excuses and alibis and short on results.

He is (hopefully was) the pits who couldn't manage an ant farm.

Tremblay should go, not because he didn't win a title but because he is a lousy manager. He misuses his bullpen (yes,he chose who's there) and his strategy is pedestrian / predictable... When he had Fiorentino bunting on 3rd strike in the 10th inning in Toronto. he lost me for good. On the other hand, I would take the Tony Larussa / Dave Duncan team...

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Barkeep's Reply: To be fair, Fiorentino did that on his own. And he heard it from Trembley for making that mistake.

Dan, because I don't know who in the clubhouse are his biggest critics and what they are saying (I'm thinking Mora), it's hard to say. Based on what I have seen and heard from Dave, he seems like a great leader of men. I am sure what we are seeing from him is not the whole picture. He's been forced, if you will, into this let's be patient mentality. I would think a guy like him can get real tough when the going gets tough. But you can't get too tough when you have the worst pitching staff in the league. Seems to me he's the kind of guy who needs to be in this organization. I'm rooting for another one year deal with a team option.

What good is changing managers going to do? Keep us closer to 85 losses instead of 100?
Call me back to baseball when there is a salary cap.

No I wouldn't
The team is competetive when there are horses in the race (as opposed to dogs)
as for the stumbling at the end any idiot ccan see that he O's shut it down over a month ago and are simply taking an extended spring training session. and spring training games don't mean anything.

Trembley should not be fired because he has done a nothing less than remarkable job with practically nothing. Until our younger players mature and we get serious about acquiring some truly competitive talent in the off season by way of free agency, it is impossible to accurately measure just how good a manager he is. We will only be setting ourselves back by firing yet another manager and hiring yet another manager.

Unless there is somebody out there who 1) is a significant improvement and 2) willing to come here then I would leave the deck chairs alone on the SS Oriole.

Dan,

I think you hit the nail on the head. Like you, I think Trembley has done a fine job given the talent he has to work with. He is a good strategist, interacts well with the players, and uses his roster well. He has held up remarkably well given the performance of the team which is more a function of the talent than his managing. And yet, all of this is irrelevant. When the Orioles decide they are "ready to win", it will be time to fire the manager to set a new tone for the next phase of their development. Life isn't fair. In a perverse way, by demonstrating they are more than a year away from competing, they may actually be saving Dave's job. No sense soiling the reputation of his successor with all the losing.

fire him

Give him one more year. This doesn't seem like it is his team, and you can't make chicken salad out of chicken... well, you know.

Dan,
Point of order: DT's contract expires at the end of this season, I believe. If he does not have a contract, he cannot be fired. Just not renewed! But, I believe he should be retained for another year. He may have made, what appear to be mistakes, but Earl Weaver made the same kind of mistakes only his players were good enought to bail him out. Hopefully, next year our players are better and able to pitch and hit and field like major leaguers should.

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Barkeep's Reply: JLS, you are absolutely correct. Technically, he would not be fired; just not renewed. But he has a job now; and likely will be told he doesn't have a job. That still works as fired to me. Tho I get your point.

I think Trem gotta go. It's a shame cause he's such a nice guy. During the new "Baltimore" uniform unveiling at Harbor Place last year, he gave me a few minutes of his time to speak to me during a team lunch. I was amazed; I never had anyone on any professional Sports team have a personable conversation with me.

He was so nice, but that might be the beginning of the problem. What I think we need in the the clubhouse is more of an authoritative figure or a disciplinarian and not a "players" coach. And Trem has always been known as a "players" coach. And the players love it and they respect him but its way too soft of an environment.

Forget the last couple months because the team has lost so many players (Sherril, Huff, Bergensen, Jones, etc) From the beginning of the season, the mental lapses, specifically on the basepaths, were disgusting. If it was just one player, like Pie, I could understand. But, everyone seemed to get in the act. It has to therefore be put on the manager. And these things happened the first 3 months of the season way before the injuries and the fire sale. Right when we were flirting with .500. And I think we would've been there if not for all the bone-headed plays. Not that we'd be in the playoffs, but I could've seen .500 or maybe a few games over in the beginning of the season.

I would make a change as I don't see anything to lose by doing so. I agree that he has limited tools in his dugout, but what has he done that has been positive? Best case scenario they lose close to 100 games. I thought they were expected to start showing an (at least a slight) improvement this year. For the first time in a long time, I see several young players with potential with is encouraging but that is not his doing. I feel like he has a chip on his shoulder when he is interviewed as well. I would like to see some new blood. What is their to lose by doing so?

I may be in the minority here, but I say you keep him. The roster has been gutted by injury and trades. Trembley seems like a decent guy, and if he hasn't lost the clubhouse, I don't see the point in blaming him for this.

While I appreciate the hand-cuffed aspect of being the Orioles manager, Trembley is not a major league manager. If he is fired, he will never manage again.

Then again, Sam Perlozzo, Lee Mazzilli and Mike Hargrove (Seattle without success) left the Orioles and will never manage in the majors again. Just like the GMs (Flanagan, Beattie, Duquette).

Trembley was the wrong man at the wrong time. Ultimately, Angelos is the wrong owner all the time, so it won't matter.

When you have the talent the Orioles have, you are behind the eight-ball. But when you continue to make pitching moves
he does (the first batter after a change reached over 50% of the time in the final month), he needs to held accountable.

Dan, you are in the clubhouse. Be honest and tell everyone he is not respected as the leader of the team.

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Barkeep's Reply: Honestly, it depends on who is asked. But I'll say this, there is less animosity toward him than there has been for other recent managers when the wheels fall off, fwiw.

Absolutely! Has no clue how to manage a pitching staff or a line up. He has lost the heart and sole of a young group of players. Unforgivable. Do you watch him in interviews? What a horses patute.... all the charm of Bill Belicheck (sp?) without the wins...

Either kept a pitcher in to long or took a pitcher out to early, starter or reliever. Stayed with a veteran ballplayer to long when they were not hitting. Allowed Mora to get more playing time after going to the sports reporters. Buried Pie and Andino on the bench. Could not get Adam Jones to keep hitting the baseball to all fields. Nor to hit the cut off man. Could not get the players to play fundamentally sound baseball. Needed to throw his pitching plan out the window. We are also still seeing the same pitchers coming out of the bullpen that have pitched all year. Even though pitchers were brought up in sept. Took a while before he started to play Aubrey. Never hardly bunted in a game. To me Trembly seemed to talk a good game when he was in front of a mic, but was never able to manage a game on the field. These are some of the reasons. For me not wanting Trembly, coming back as manager. Yes get rid of him.

Keep Trembley! He is an integral part of this rebuilding process. A no vote for Trembley is a no vote for the rebuilding process.

I think the O's will make Trembley the scapegoat. The Rays stayed with Joe Madden and that worked out as the players improved and additions were make. I think Mora hurt Trembley with his "disrespectful" comment. Mora did not comment on how disrespectfull his own stats were against all other MLB and some AAA 3rd basemen! I think 500 is very possible next year and a contender after that.

Keep Trembley and hire a better strategist when the team is closer to contending.

Yes he should be fired.Absolutely!when he was hired he was supposed to go back to the basics of good fundamental baseball.what a crock that was.
He is the most unexciting manager I have ever seen.When you lose by 40 games you should go.Need a New face.

Enough is enough! Give these young guys a manager who can teach winning and that you have got to have heart. Fire this ho hum excuse of a manager. I don't want to be mean, but he seems content as a loser. Get mad every once an a while. Show us you want these guys to care no matter what win or lose. The Oriole Way is missing!

Trembley is a steady hand and a strong teacher. He also has class and pride. That combination is just what's needed on a team this dependent on young guys. He's not at fault for the failures of a team that consists of a lot of third-rate players and a very few real pros. The bullpen is one of the worst in MLB in the past 30 or 40 years. The batting lineup was mediocre when the team was healthy. Now it's pathetic. Give Trembley a chance to work with a decent team.

Here's the question: Make Joe Girardi the manager of the O's this year and Dave Trembley manager of the Yankees, do the O's finish anywhere but last and the Yankees anywhere but first? No. Though maybe the Yanks don't win 100 and the O's don't lose 100. I like Trembley, i think he is a decent man and a decent manager. I think he will be let go because it is another way for the O's front office to buy change on the cheap. If there is a new manager it better be someone who is ready to start kicking a** and taking names. These players need to be taught hard lessons about how to win again.

Culture of losing 30-3 by the Rangers two yrs ago with Trembley at the helm. Now facing 100 losses with Trembley at the helm. Poor on field decisions and bungled pitching moves with Trembley at the helm > We need a proven winner we need a connection to our winning past WE NEED DAVEY JOHNSON!

IF TREMBLEY IS JUST A CASE OF BAD LUCK ---LET HIM HAVE BAD LUCK SOMEPLACE ELSE! ENOUGH EXCUSES!

Dave was tasked with three main tasks this year. Develop the young players, protect the young arms and make sure everyone plays hard. I think he accomplished all three things and is perfect man to do the most important thing next year, continue their development into big league ballplayers. Dave did a good job. He and the whole staff deserve a raise.

give me Dempsey!
Rick is guts, know how and accountability.

What good will it do to fire Trembley? They'll still lose 90 games. Until the Orioles acquire or develop a top line pitching staff, this team will continue to lose. If the Orioles are going to fire somebody, they should fire McPhail. He hired Trembley and put together this years extremely sub-par roster that was destined to finish in last place. His acquisitions for this years roster turned out to be pretty bad... Eaton, Pie, Koji, Wigginton... these guys didn't have any significant impact to the team.

That being said, at this point, I don't think they should fire anyone. There hasn't been enough time or talent to effectively evaluate Trembley's or McPhail's performance.

Without a doubt, I would have fired Trembley long before now if it were my decision. He is probably the stupidest manager in baseball, as he repeatedly demonstrates with his in-game moves.

Not only do the Orioles play with the handicap of stupid tactics by the manager, they play poor fundamentals, and they play to lose. Every time Trembley gives his lame post-game rationale for losing, in which he proclaims his gratitude that the team didn't quit, "we just didn't get it done," I feel like screaming.

I realize these are professional players, but anyone who thinks that motivation is
unimportant misses the essence of sports. Winning is contagious. And so is losing. Unhappily, Trembley is a loser.

Put a decent manager in charge of the Orioles, someone with the grit of Earl Weaver, and we'll soon see better baseball, even if the talent level does not soar as it should if Angelos were really interested in winning.

That is not to say that it is entirely or even primarily Trembley's fault that the O's lack talent. It is not a question of "blaming him" for all the team's woes, but recognizing that he is emblematic of the low-talent approach to baseball that the Orioles have followed since 1997.

We need a high-talent approach throughout --talented players and a talented manager.

I don't care for the way Trembley manages a game.... and that's the real key:
How does a guy manage a GAME.... not a TEAM.

Trembley is too TEAM-oriented.
He needs to be more GAME-oriented.

A good manager plays the game the same way regardless of his personnel.
I've seen Cox and LaRussa do this for years. Their teams bear the mark of their approach to the game.

Trembley's teams bear the mark of who's healthy or faltering for whatever reason.

He claims to have "respect for the game... and in his way I suppose he does.
Unfortunately it doesn't translate to his teams.

For all of you fire Trembley folks out there, I say keep him and give me a list of what managers "now managing" that you would replace him with. Trust me, I bet it would be a very small list, and I'll also bet that the managers you name are managers of vastly more talented teams then the O's presently are.

Keep Trembley. Give him another year with an improving team, then we'll pass judgement.

Go O's!

DT is too accepting of mediocre performances. And McPhail has to dump a few of these guys. We learned first hand why Wigginton was available. He swings at virtually every first pitch and is an awful baserunner and a borderline fielder. Albers .. well, what can you say about him? He's awful with inherited runners and if the bases are empty, he finds a way to walk a few guys. Baez is Mr. Inconsistency. Part of the bullpen's problem was guys being run out there every night for 2 or 3 outs and being pulled even when they were pitching well. Besides a motivating manager, we need (and I speak the obvious) a big bat at first, a decent bat at 3rd and a bonafide ace and a closer, since McPhail was so wise as to give Sherrill away for a couple guys who will most likely amount to AAA lifers.

Trembley goes because I just don't like the way he manages this team period. True half of this team sucks and that is managements fault for putting this team together however Dave made way to many questionable moves with the players he had case in point was tonights games when he had Floren. try to bunt on the first pitch to move the runners along into better scoring position. O.K. thats fine but why take the bunt off after just one pitch when he knows every run is going to be important if they are going to break this streak? Demp.'s excuse in the post game was "well that is the way Dave manages". Yeah well I don't like it. It is not smart baseball.

Dave Trembley is a good manager for a young team. He sets high standards. It's not his fault the O's are young. But McPhail will fire him because he wants his own man. He didn't hire Trembley.

Fire McFail and have the city take the team from Angelos by eminant domain.

Don't you have thing else to write about?A.M. has already come out and said D.T. will NOT be fired.

It's a dead horse. Leave it alone.

Dan,

Ya gotta be kiddin' us!

Can you name one rookie manager who has lost this many games 2 1/2 years into his tenure and kept his job?

For that matter, can you name a seasoned manager who lost this many games 2 1/2 years in with the same team and kept his job?

One definition of insanity: To keep doing the same thing over and over again but somehow expecting a different result.

There is not a single facet of the Oriole game that has improved during Trembley's tenure.

Lack of focus, lack of a winning attitude, and a lack of fundamentals...and that's the veterans.

THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASON TO DUMP TREMBLEY IS HE HAS NOT BEEN IN CONTROL AND WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE ALL OF THESE YOUNG GUYS DEVELOP THE SAME ATTITUDES AS THE VETERANS.

Trembly needs to go. I said this about 3 months into the season. While it is true that a winning season wasn't expected this year, Trembley is not going to be evaluated on wins and losses. He will be assesed on the way the team played, which is quite a different thing. The evaluation will be unfavorable because he did things like bat Mora fifth for more than half a season even when it was apparent Mora wasn't suited to this slot. Ultimately this may have ended Mora's career here in Baltimore. He did things like constantly yanking starters based solely on pitch count, and not performance, so he could start the Trembly parade of pitchers. I mean the guy could have 2.5 innings left in the game, he might use two pitchers that were throwing well, but he would constantly change pitchers based on the simple minded righty - lefty matchup, until one of the pitchers would fail, therby extending the game and burning up his bullpen. Not very smart!

He also kept changing his batting order around after the initial hitting slump early in the season. No hitter could get comfortable with their role, or learn what to expect from the guys hitting in front, or behind them because he kept moving people around, a sure sign of his uncertainty about his players, and his own decisions. The worst part of his handling of the batting order was every time a guy heated up, Trembley would move them to a different spot in the batting order, or sometimes just sit them, and kill their productivity. Oivey!

Who can forget the disaster on the base paths, this kept going until it became an ugly public spectacle. It finally got better, not because of Trembley, but because the fans made an issue of it. Trembley's choice to use Pie as a sacrifical lamb was poorly calculated. Pie's reaction by simply keeping his head down, while he continued to work and improve, made Trembley look even worse.

A new manger won't solve all of the Orioles problems overnight. He may even turn out to be a not very good manager, but the Orioles have to send a message that poor job performance is not going to be rewarded with contract extensions. To all of those pundits, and other equally bright, informed people who say managers don't matter. I say fine, then fire Trembley, and use his salary for something other than a manager which we don't need anyway. If they just want a guy to handle some paper work, and do a few press conferences I'll do it for a lot less money than Trembley. It will be the best job I ever had especially knowing that no matter how badly I screw up I will keep my job, and enviable life style, because it doesn't matter anyway.

Get rid of MacPhail.He's the chief architect of this disaster.The new GM should hire his own manager.

Tremblay did not create the culture of losing that exists with the Orioles. The lack of enthusiasm displayed by most Oriole players was evident in the days of Saint Cal of Ripken.

Tremblay has shown little imagination with his managerial style. He doesn't start runners often enough and the fundamentals that he was supposed to infuse into the team are not evident.

For these faults, not the culture, he is responsible.

I would ordinarily vote to fire him, but in this instance I would keep him for one reason: the Orioles will have a busy winter as it is. They need to cobble together a new bullpen and get serious about some free agency picks. Given their past history of waiting until the last second of the last minute to make a managerial pic, they just don't have time to fool with it now.

Brian Roberts, who has seen managers come and go, supports Trembly. Another veteran, Mark Hendrickson, has publicly endorsed the entirely coaching staff. A new manager & staff would take six months of the season just to get to know the roster. A manager can only put players in position to succeed -- the players then have to perform. However, Trembley's biggest faults in my eyes are team-wide poor bunting, situational hitting and baserunning, issues that we should expect him to have addressed in spring training (maybe they were). These need to be made priorities for next year. I say provide some continuity and give Dave a two-year deal.

He pinch hits a .182 hitter for a .290 hitter and then the .182 hitter proceeds to strike out to be followed by a .249 hitter with a runner on.
It's these kind of illogical moves that makes me want a real BIG LEAGUE manger in Baltimore!

I read only a few posts and was suprised when all said he should be fired. The voters poll had only 14% saying he should be fired. Head scratcher. Why should Trembley be fired? To me he is a baseball man and fits in PERFECT with Baltimore. He knows the game in and out, will defend his players, won't stand for injustice and tells it like it is. What would you do if you were a manager at a, let's say, Merrill Lynch. All of your employees except maybe 10 didn't take math when they went to school and never made it past the 11th grade yet they are working for a fortune 500 hundred financial company. Now when the president of M.L. wants to know why your division has the worst profit of the entire company he comes to you and hold you accountable but you weren't the one who actually hired your staff. It was done through human resources and because of what those idiots gave you to work with ,while trying to 'save money', you just got fired. Make sense? Head scratcher.

Only if we can't get Tony La Russa

Keep Trembley. I said before the season that The Orioles would NOT have a winning season until 2010. McPhail took over before the 2008 season. We'll have a winning season in 2010, and we'll contend for a playoff spot in 2011. It isn't about the manager. It's about rebuilding (which we are doing) which takes time. McPhail's third season will bring 83 wins and 79 losses.

To all of you in the "fire Trembley" camp, who do you then suggest as a replacement?

When other teams are able to outspend the O's by millions of dollars to get the cream-of-the-crop players, is there a manager out there who could get better use out of the talent we DO have?

Do tell...

Trembley will probably leave. Really Baltimore needs to spend some money on their bullpen. They create runs and have the potential, but in the AL East they need a deep bullpen and it costs. Keep what they've got and add some depth to the pitching staff. They've got the heart, they just need to invest in the most expensive part of the game, which is talent on the mound.

Give me an Oktoberfest and put it on Rich's tab. I'm back after my venting atthe Barkeep a few days back. Thanks for listening Dan.

I like Dave T. but you have to non-tender him. We've got a core group of young guys and we need to start fresh (yet again) in 2010. But, and this is a bigger but than what J-Lo is packing, if they think a managerial change is the only thing needed in 2010, forget it. We still need a big bat, a solid vet in the rotation and a solid vet in the pen.

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Barkeep's Reply: Good to have ya back. I'll pick up this one.

Geez. The Indians just fired their manager, after they just swept the Orioles. And we'll keep the guy who was swept by the guy who was fired?

I won't be able to take another season where the philosophy is to have some of the best hitters in the game (Markakis, Roberts, Jones) give up 2/3 of each at bat by taking two strikes because they have to be patient at the plate. On the flip side, I see no benefit to telling the entire league that our pitching philosophy is to "pound the strike zone". Even I can hit a first pitch fast ball if I know it's coming. This isn't the fault of the 25 guys in the dugout or the guy running the front office. It's on Trembley and he has to go. Even a hint of improvement in the winning percentage might help but all I see is a continued decline with better players. That translates to a manager who doesn't know how to inspire his players to be better as a team than they are individually.

i seem to remember MacPhail saying early this year that the finish was important. That the O's could not have another late season tank. Well, if this isnt a tank, then what is.....i know, 4-32 is a tank job...but 6-20 is bad too.

I think the answer is "YES" he will be fired based on MacPhail's early statements. The whys are self-evident.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-sp.schmuck27may27,0,7351794.column

only link i could find today where the strong finish is mentioned

I don't for a minute think that Trembley is the reason for the Orioles dismal performance this year. Nor do I agree with many of the comments and suggestions that have been made regarding his performance, here or on other blogs. For instance, some folks have been critical because he appears emotionless during and after games. I contend that an Ozzie Guillen personality, while highly entertaining, would not benefit this particular group of players. Nor do I think that it is wise to yearn for the return of Davey Johnson (turns 67 in January), or to hire Rick Dempsey (60 years old, no managerial experience).

The things I would want to know are the things we as fans don't get to see. How does he handle his players in the clubhouse? How does he run a training camp? How does he work with his coaches? How does he address performance issues with individual players? The fact that he doesn't throw his players under the bus in the media is a good thing; too many fans assume that he just ignores the crazy things we have all seen happen this year, when in all likelihood he addresses them privately with the appropriate parties.

But the bottom line is, I would be surprised if he is brought back next year. If it were my decision that is also the course I would take. Not because a team without three of its top four outfielders, two of its top starters, and without its closer and original cleanup hitter staggered to the finish line with a 12 game and counting losing streak. But because I believe there are some positive pieces that have been put in place for next year and I would want to start with a fresh voice leading the team. I don't want the mentality to be "here we go again" if the team stumbles at some point during the early season, which is likely. I don't want to see Dave lose more of the clubhouse.

Now, if Andy evaluates things and decides that Dave does a good job at doing his job, which is as much working behind the scenes - with PEOPLE, not just commodities - as it is game decisions, then I will support that decision. But Dave was never Andy's first choice in the first place so I expect him to make the change. If he doesn't, it signals to me that he is not expecting to contend next year and wants another year of caretaking before making a final determination of whether or not Trembley can manage a winning ballclub.

A new manager won't make a difference in the win column. But in the event that Trembley is let go, Bobby Valentine one of top in the list. I just don't think he would last too long with Angelos still around

Honestly, forget the manager thing. Let's get a salary cap in baseball! Doesn't matter who you have managing a team when the Yankees are out-spending teams by 2-3 times. Their payroll is 200 Million. Ours is $67 Million. The Marlins are $30 Million. The average is somewhere around $100 Million.

So, let's not blame Angelos. The teams that go to the playoffs every year either come from a crappy division or they have an incredible media market (NY, New England, CA) and their owners can use all that money for their team. It is an incredible disparity and its what makes the NFL such a better sport because everyone is on a level playing field and there is revenue sharing for the smaller markets. Although tthe NFL is looking at an un-capped season soon, I'm sure they'll iron it out. Everyone knows its for the best.

Do the Yankees really have fun knowing their talent far exceeds other teams? I don't blame Steinbrenner- he's taking full advantage of the system. I blame MLB for this garbage economic system.

First off, he wouldn't be 'fired.' The Orioles just won't rehire him. There's no getting around that.

Second, he should be rehired for continuity.

Not one mention of the lazy General Manager.

Andy McPhail has done virtually nothing since the great Seattle trade. He has not added ONE AL East caliber player to the organization since the start of the 2008 season.

How can the team run out of players every single year and the GM escape blame? It is his responsibility, period.

But that doesn't change the fact that Dave Trembley has been a LOSING MANAGER virtually his entire career, at all levels. Do some homework on his career results. They're awful.

And Andy McPhail's career results are also AWFUL. He has posted a winning record less than 1/3 of the time while in charge of his three teams.

How can anyone expect LOSING LEADERS to produce winning in a bad organization?

The results are exactly what any sane person would expect.

No way I would bring Trembley or his coaching staff back. It is one thing not to be able to compete with the rest of the AL East because of a lack of talent but there is no excuse for the numerous bone head plays we have suffered through the entire year. You say they practice fundamentals more than any other team you have covered. Thats great but if you practice incorrectly then what good does it do you when game time arrives. As they say practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. Peter Angelos needs to swallow some of his huge ego and apologize to Davey Johnson and beg him to come back. Sure he won't turn this team into an instant winner but he will make them competitive. Kind of the baseball version of what Mike Singletary has done with the 49ers.

If the following scenario doesn't occur over the offseason, then keep Dave:

1) Angelos comes crawling back to Davey Johnson and BEGS him for forgiveness for railroading him out of town in 1997 and offers him whatever he wants to come back as manager;
2) Angelos admits that it was HE who foisted Armando Benitez on Johnson and that he forced Johnson to use him repeatedly; resulting in blown 4 ALCS/ALDS games over the two years;
3) Angelos admits to Johnson that he actually raised a number of cloned children (ala "The Boys From Brazil") to be randomly placed in the stands at O's playoff games in order to interfere with critical outfield hits so that he could later blame the resultant outcome on Johnson;
4) Angelos publically apologizes to Davey Johnson's wife for pulling such a slimey maneuver when he accused her of using copyrighted Orioles imaging w/o team permission as part of a fundraising effort not sanctioned by the Orioles;
5) Angelos promises never to come within 1000 feet of Camden Yards; attempt to interact with any of the Orioles: players, personnel, management staff, bus boys, or Boog's BBQ ever again; and defers ALL Baseball operation decisions to Andy MacPhail and his staff.

In return, Davey Johnson must promise that he will lift "The Curse" he had planted on the team when he left town 12 years ago.

That might get the O's to .500 next season!

You can not properly run the race without a full stable of horses. He had no 1st baseman, a 3rd baseman playing out the last of his contract .Two outfielders went on the DL including our only allstar and our candidate for rookie of the year. As far as the pitching goes he only can use what is available to him and we all know that was not much. No one could have done much better with this team,remenber we are in a division with two of the highest spending teams in baseball.

The video debate between Kevin and Peter missed the point entirely. Kevin argued that Trembley should be fired because we need a change, and a new start, while Peter argued that we need stability and consistency.
The decision to keep or fire a manager should be based on one thing and one only and that is did he do a good job as manager?
You somewhat cavalierly dismiss his game time decisions because we can all argue over them, but those decisions can cost us games. I've never seen an Orioles manager including Mazzilli and Perlozzo who had me scratcing my head wondering "what the hell was he thinking?" more often than Trembley. The win/loss record by itself is not a fair judge because there are so many factors out of his control, but he certainly can and should be judged on the game decisions he makes. Am I qualified to make that call, of course not, but AM has been a baseball man for a long time and has access to as many veteran players, coaches and managers as he needs to evaluate Trembley's performance.
The idea that this team won't be a winner even with a good manager is also weak. Hell anyone can be successful with a ton of talent, the fact is the teams without a lot of talent are the ones who most desperately need a great manager.
I think Dave is a great guy, a loyal Oriole and a hard worker. I hope the team can find another job in the organization for him, but after watching him for 21/2 years I just don't see any evidence that he is a good major league manager, and quite frankly neither you or Peter have even attempted to show that he is.
How about telling us what makes him a good manager if you think he should stay. That after all is how the decision should be made.

until peter angelos sells
the team, the orioles' will
be losers....

letting davey johnson go was
the start of a major rebuilding
project that still make two -
three years...

tremblay seems like a nice man, but the orioles need
a more vocal and disciplinary
type of leader in the clubhouse...sorry dave, but
it's time to move on... could
ya take peter with you?????

5 certs in life: Birth, school, work, death and the O's suck. I'm soooo tired of following this woeful franchise. If we packed up in the middle of the night and moved to Indy I don't think I'd give a hoot. Every year I hear the same nonsense about how the next crop of clown pitchers will make a difference in a year's time. ----Whatever. ---These guys are moribund and we're the worst franchise in sports and going nowhere quick.

The whole debate is pointless. It doesn't matter who manages for the next five years cause guess what, we'll still suck.

Hi Dan!

Dave Trembley wasn't handed some Jeters, A-Rods, and Damons and then screwed up the season. No, he got "everybody and his brother " and was told to make it work. It is always easy to blame the manager. How many owners do you see saying, "Wow, I should really keep my mouth shut and let the manager manage the game. After all, he really is the one I hired to do the job!!" Sure!!!

Others have said it here before me so there is no need to duplicate their answers; It was clear that everyone worth any money was gone from the team by August. I was at the recent O's-Red Sox series and it was pretty obvious that B. Rob, Luke and the rest of our "stars" weren't putting in 100%. It was a sea of red shirts, and those of us cheering for the Orioles felt like we were more into it than the players. There is no cohesiveness; no team! No wins! No home town fans?!!

Trembley deserves another year, but please! Add some descent pitching! You can't win ball games without pitching! He also deserves a bunch of guys with enough ambition, talent and work ethic so we can see if he can get it done.

I hope Peter Angelos and Andy MacPhail read your column!

l'm not sure if Trembly should go or not. l have mixed feelings. But if he is fired, so should the entire coaching staff! Even the great Terry Crowley who's hitters are all chokers with runners in scoring position!!

I just can't bring myself to care any more... I actually watch the Phillies now. After 39 seasons as an O's fan, the life has finally been sucked out of me. Not even Wieters and Matusz muster up enough charisma to make me want to be like Charlie Brown, hoping Lucy will FINALLY hold the football still so he can kick it...

First of all, to the same poster who uses different names, at least spell the name correct. It's Trembley, not Tremblay. I'll reitierate what I've said numerous times. Every single person in the free world said the Orioles were going to have a bad team this season and they would wind up in last place. Trembley isn't the one throwing the home run balls; Trembley isn't the one batting .250 while making $8 million a year and then whining about no respect. Trembley isn't the one who can't throw strikes. I find it laughable that everyone claims MacPhail should go and the 'plan' is a failure. This team's farm system was horrid the past decade; that wasn't MacPhail's doing. In fact he has done a damn good job of re-stocking the farm. Is the job finished? Of course not. But it's been ONLY TWO YEARS. As bad as the farm was all these years do you really think it can be put back together in two years? Spare me. I find it ironic that the true experts of baseball (see Derek Jeter, Jim Leyland, even recently Brooks Robinson) have all said that the farm is looking up for the first time in years; that the current crop of young players on the team play hard and are good players, and that the team needs some continuity after all the numerous changes in manager/front office in the past decade. I will take the knowledge of Jeter, Leyland and Robinson over the likes of "anonymous" and all the other self proclaimed 'experts' who post the same whining negative rants daily. If these "fans" can't see the future looking bright with Adam Jones, Nolan Reimold, Felix Pie, Matt Wieters, Brain Matusz, Chris Tillman, Brad Bergesen on the current roster then they know squat about baseball. All the aforementioned players except of Jones, has been with the major league team for less than one year. Yet, MacPhail and the plan is a failure. Go figure.

I hate Dave Trembley... First of all, he uses double-negatives when speaking and I can't stand the stupid nicknames he calls his players during intevieww. Example: "Nicky is seeing the ball well" NICKY??? Do you think Markakis' wife or friends call him NICKY??

Trembley needs to move on and the Orioles need to hire someone who can inject a new culture of winning. The end of the year collapse is unacceptable. I realize he has limited talent and many injuries but he needed to find a way to light a fire under the players and win some games. Please hire a proven winner who is a motivator and leader to manage the O's.

not dave it seems like he isnt giving them any reason to care enough to go out there and give it their all even in the last month of the season! Not that they dont but it just didnt seem fun for them anymore like it was the first half we need a manager who has already known what its like to win to keep these young and veterns motivative in the 2nd half to get to 500 or maybe even wild card I just want the 2nd half to be just as fun as the first

Would you keep Dave Trembley?

Now, that's a dumb question. Let me ask you this. Would you like your teeth pulled without anesthetic? That's the kind of pain we will be experiencing if we keep Trembley.

Trembley is not the problem, Angelos is the problem. He doesn't run this team with the passion of winning a Division Championship or the Series. It is a business decision, as long as more $ comes in than goes out, he considers the team successful. Angelos needs to sell to someone with the passion to drive the team to be competitive. As for me, I've attended my last Orioles game for a long, long time.

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