All of these athletes are remarkable but their medals all come from one sport. This doesn't diminish their accomplishments but in terms of pure athleticism no one comes close to Jim Thorpe.

In terms of "greatest athlete", Thorpe eclipses everyone. He won the pentathlon and the decathlon in 1912. More noteworthy is that he excelled in every sport he attempted. He played for 3 years with the New York baseball Giants, barnstormed as a professional basketball player, and was named to the first all-NFL team in 1923.

He was Bo before there was Bo.

Beware for even suggesting this or even mentioning that someone might think this. The thought police are out there on Phelps. Go check out the vitriolic replies I got a few days ago at Connolly's for even suggesting that swimming wasn't that big of a deal. Yikes.

WTF? Anyone watching the olympics or supporting such elitist garbage in a time of war is missing what is truly going on-PHUK PHELPS, I hope he drowns in the piss filled pools he swims in-GO IRAQ WAR VETERANS!

What is Hersh smoking over there? May he never be welcome back in Baltimore again!

Without trying to add it all up, here's one point in Phelps's favor:

If, around the world, as many people were training and competing in rowing, as in swimming, rowing performance would be at a higher level than it is now, and rowing medals would be harder to win. Ditto for speed skating.

In other words, the state of swimming today is probably closer to the limits of human potential, so it's a harder sport to dominate.

Heh .. comparing athletes from different eras is as as hard as comparing them from different sports venues. I'm pretty sure that he never swam competively so I don't know how he can say "winning multiple medals in swimming is easy". I have and I know it's no easier or harder than the other venues mentioned. These are all great athletes in their own rights. Only history will determine how these individuals rank in the grand scheme of sports.

You know what they say about opinions and a**holes ... everyone has one ... I guess Phil Hersh just thinks he has a bigger one ... 8^)

Deathbywords, In a time of war, we should support ALL of our fellow country men, no matter where they are or the means in which they show how great this country is.

Why don't you tell your political leaders how you feel and have them do something about it.

Hersh's article is almost laughable. I respect his opinion however, and it was a god read. While I agree that Phelps may not be the "greatest" olympian (It's a very subjective term, most "decorated" is more appropriate), Hersh makes light of Phelp's amazing accomplisments and swimming.

Hersh writes: "Three of swimming's four strokes -- everything but breaststroke -- might as well be the same. Otherwise, how could backstroker Matt Grevers say he barely trained that stroke before winning an Olympic silver medal in the 100? Nearly every good freestyler can be a good butterflyer, and vice-versa."

Coming from someone who spent most of his life swimming and running Track, I can tell you that this is far from true. While the strokes may looks similar, it's not that easy to be talented in all of them. Butterfly being the hardest sporting activity I've ever participated in. I applaud Phelps for being great at all strokes.

That being said, a person cannot simply compare sports. It's impossible. There is no "greatest olympian". (My ideal "greastest" olympian would have to compete well in all sports, which is nearly impossible to see). However, There are many "great" olympians and surely Phelps is one of them.

Congrats to Mike Phelps. We have the fever out here too, which is why I checked the Sun's web page. Anyway, I can't comment on athletes from other countries, but Hersh has a point AND Phelps is one of the greatest of all time.

My top 5 male Americans:

Carl Lewis
Jesse Owens
Eric Heiden (we include Winter Olympics in Wisconsin)
Al Oerter
Mike Phelps

Hon. Mention: Spitz, Thorpe, Mathias, Mike Johnson

I agree completely with DedicatedReader. How can anyone say there is a "greatest olympian"? That just doesn't exist. How can anyone put down how awesome Phelps is at his spor?t... unless you can beat him. (Herch). I'll hyperventilate over Phelps as long as I want when I see him beating world records and setting records thru out the whole swimming world. You need to appreciate that people can just be awesome at something and that's the end of it. Cheer them on with the rest of us or shut up!

And to Deathbyword (your name is even ridiculous) please take your political views else where this is a time for all the country's to be together in one place peacefully and a time to be proud of your country all that other "elitist garbage" is for another time and place... save it!

who cares if he is the best or not ?? The price of gasoline is not going to come down, neither is the crisis in the financial markets going to ease - whether he is the best or not. Of course, he is a great swimmer and all the best to him as he goes for the eight golds. All you folks who are in Beijing covering the olympics and writing such worthless trash should come back immediately and start helping to rebuild the economy - you can do that by donating your perks and then somemore to the needy and the desperate who are out of work. You should try to starve for a day to know what hardship some folks are going through and I bet, you wont have the energy to write such pathetic articles. Try starving for a day - it will help you to reduce some of that overweighted mass around your rotund body

Are you kidding me?? deathbywords, I think it's time to get back on your meds. raja, maybe you should borrow some from him. Yes, there is turmoil in the world, the economy is in bad shape, but does that mean we should all spend our waking hours focussed on all that negative crap?

I have NOOOO problem with anyone saying that Michael Phelps isn't the best Olympian ever.

I think that Hersh can make very valid arguments for his top three. Phelps has only done this in two Olympics, so Carl Lewis-like longevity is still not on his resume. That being said, how in the H-E-double hockey sticks can he put a rower and kayaker in the top 5?

I don't care how dominant they were in their sports, there is NO pressure on rowers and kayakers. If you don't do well, who cares? Now, for gymnastics, track & field and swimming, that's a completely different story.

From a physically-demanding standpoint, Hersh also brings up valid points about how recovery time in swimming is much shorter than that of track and field. Fine, but kayak and rowing? Come on!

First of all, I will be honest and say that I have never competed in swimming events. From an outsider's perspective, I never could understand why we have so many different styles of swimming events. Olympic events in swimming includes medley, freestyle, fly, breast strokes, etc. It sounds awefully like 100 meter dash, one-legged 100 meter dash, skipping 100 meter dash, run backward 100 meter dash, etc. Is it really necessary to have these may different styles of swimming... every at beach or anywhere only uses freestyle. So many medals for one "swimming"?!?!?

Deathbywords
I hope you do

Yes it is nearly impossible to compare athletes that compete in different sports, but Hersh set this up by COUNTERING the perception of Phelps as the greates with his own list.

I think it is easy to jump Phelps over the bottom four in the list just based on his accomplishments to date. Swimming IS a difficult and taxing sport, otherwise Phelps wouldn't chow down on 10,000 calories a day, spend an hour in the warmdown pool following a race an get worked over by linebacker-sized masseurs in an attempt to get physically ready for the next race.

Phelps has not just won, he has DOMINATED the best the world can throw at him. He has swum an amazing mix of strokes and distances, which could arguably compared to a 100M sprinter competing in a 1500M event and the hurdles. The only reason Phelps is not competing (and winning) the other swimming events is that the schedule literally won't allow it. Add to the fact that he is mentally tough and apparently immune to pressure, and you have a rare athlete.

Phelps is only 23. How many more olympics and medals would justify putting Phelps at the top of Hersh's list?

I think Phelps certainly deserves to be in the top two or three of all time and what he is doing right now is just incredible (especially with the increased number of prelims you have to swim today), but Hersh also raises some excellent points. Most important, you can't simply define the most dominant Olympian based on the total number of medals won, because in some sports there are more medals available to win. A great wrestler or a weightlifter could be just as dominant in his sport, yet never come close to eight gold medals.

Again, I'm not busting on Phelps, the way he is handling himself over there against all the expectations is simply mind-blowing ... but I'm just saying that there are fair and reasonable arguments against him being the No. 1 Olympian of all time.

Deathbywords and raja:

Get help quickly! Some of us work to improve the lives of others 10-12 hours a day. We need the inspiration we're getting by watching the Olympics. I've followed Michael since high school and every time I see him swim, it makes me want to run to the gym, pronto.

You can take anything Phil Hersh writes with a grain of salt. Phil Hersh could care less about what he writes about in his columns. He just wants to get paid and the Chicago Tribune is stupid enough to keep paying him after all these years. He knows nothing about most Olympic sports except for his beloved figure skating and most Olympic athletes try to stay away from Phil Hersh because he is such a snake. People say Phelps is the greatest Olympian of all time so of course Phil has to draw attention to himself by writing that he is not. I'll tell you what if Michael Phelps is not the greatest Olymipian then Phil Hersh is definitely the 2nd worst sports journalist in Beijing, the first being another Chicago columnist, Jay Mariotti.

Getting people steamed is a beautiful thing-How pathetic is to derive inspiration from an athlete who swims in a pool! By the way, I am a teacher who witnesses the decay within the inner cities where people like yourself fail to acknowledge or even tread(Oh that is a swimming joke Ha Ha..tehheeheh)-So go get your pom poms and your cheetos and sit content while we head into 1984-(I can sense the steam burning from your feeble iconoclastic minds) Oh also the plural for country is countries-That is the problem-Go Entertainment World!)

Hmmm... I was wondering why if people are so concerned over the current situation in our country, they spend so much time trying to diminish everyone's opinion over whether or not Michael Phelps is so great? Michael might be the best or maybe not. I just don't see why someone should get so worked up over that. Personally, I think Phelps' achievements are subjective, people who swim will vouch with me that what he's accomplished is nothing but admirable; others will argue otherwise depending on the sports they practice. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and that's why even Michael Phelps said he didn't see himself as the greatest olympic athlete ever, he thought the title of most decorated athlete applied better.

my biggets gripe with Hersh's article is not that he doesn't like Phelps. It is clear that he has a liking for track... perhaps a former track athlete himself? My gripe is tht his arguments are based nothing but logical fallacies, false statements, and contradictions. If you want to argue that Phelps is not the greatest at least back it up with real arguments

Unless Hersh wants to travel down a classic boxed canyon and argue swimming somehow not a "sport", there is no fairly debatable point here. When these Olympics over, Phelps accomplishments will peak for themselves. As we say with awe and admiration when a horse performs such feats, the kid is "a freak"-- one suspects what we are seeing will be talked about for generations to come.

Alas, Hersh part of the business of selling a daily paper, not the final verdict of documented of history. As my sports-loving Grandmother use to say, "everyone is entitled to their opinion, even (when like Hersh's) it's wrong."

Clearly Mr. Hersh does not understand the concept of teamwork as it pertains to Olympic success. My highly successful (CEO) daughter noted that the true measure of success is the impact your victories have on competitors and observers. Example: Mr. Spitz and JASON LEZAK. Sweet writers like Mr. Hersh don't understand the concept. Witness Maryland star Mike Jones for example. AMAZING.

"First of all, I will be honest and say that I have never competed in swimming events. From an outsider's perspective, I never could understand why we have so many different styles of swimming events. Olympic events in swimming includes medley, freestyle, fly, breast strokes, etc. It sounds awefully like 100 meter dash, one-legged 100 meter dash, skipping 100 meter dash, run backward 100 meter dash, etc. Is it really necessary to have these may different styles of swimming... every at beach or anywhere only uses freestyle. So many medals for one "swimming"?!?!?"- Posted by Tom

That's what it looks like from the outside, but go in a pool and try to swim these strokes (especially Butterfly) and you'll be in for a surprise. Each stroke is very different in execution. Think of it sort of like different distance running events or hurdling and jumping eventsto an exent. Each event in swimming requires has different body types and different training methods.

To summarize: It's not easy. and for Phelps to be good at all, it's amazing.

"Olympic events in swimming includes medley, freestyle, fly, breast strokes, etc. It sounds awefully like 100 meter dash, one-legged 100 meter dash, skipping 100 meter dash, run backward 100 meter dash, etc. Is it really necessary to have these may different styles of swimming... "

Each of those swimming styles is completely different requiring extremely specialized technique to execute. Dimissing any of these as "the same" or ridiculous is like saying, "Well, is it really necessary to have the straight running races, hurdles and the steeplechase?" It's all just running with slight variations!
Why have both the high jump and the pole vault? It's just jumping over bars!
Do we need the triple jump and the long jump? It's just running and jumping!
Why are the hammer, discus, javelin, shot put different? It's just tossing stuff around!
Who needs separate team gymnastics and individual events? They just do the same routines every time!
Equestrian? Horses aren't even people!
Skeet Shooting? Biathalon? Seriously?

See what I mean?

Every sport requires extremely different skills and specialization and I really think it's unfair for people to critcize them as unnecessary or try to compare any one of them.

What Phelps did is absolutely astonishing. He is no doubt one of the best ever and in very elite company, but trying to precisely compare him to Carl Lewis or anyone else in that league all just comes down to apples and oranges.

And for those of you dismissing kayaking and rowing: Obviously you have never seriously tried either.