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August 1, 2011

Orioles: Someday, our Prince won't come

I'm going to jump into the conversation about the Orioles' moves over the weekend with heavily mixed feelings. I'll give Andy MacPhail props for getting a decent return for Koji Uehara and moving Derrek Lee, but I have some serious reservations about where that leaves the organization.

The acquisition of a major-league-ready-but-unproven first baseman and a minor league first base prospect should send a message to fans that the Orioles will not be very interested in Prince Fielder this winter.

Obviously, there's no comparison between Chris Davis and Fielder, but the fact that the Orioles have shored up their organizational depth at first base will make it impossible -- in my opinion -- to convince Peter Angelos to spend more than $100 million to bring in another one, even if Fielder has left open the possibility of moving into a full-time designated hitter role.

It's not my money, and even I wouldn't pay that much for a DH who's weight issues probably would get worse if he isn't on the field every day. The message seems to have been sent that the Orioles are now set at first and will look to fill needs elsewhere.

Perhaps the Orioles finally recognize that they will have to buy some arms instead of some bats, but this is going to be a very tough winter to find anybody who will really solidify the starting rotation. Maybe that's why Jeremy Guthrie is still here.

Though I felt that the Orioles should try to deal Jeremy for his own good, I'll defer to MacPhail on the value he required to make a deal. There's no doubt Guthrie has the potential to have a breakout season in 2012, so the Orioles had to get pitching in return to forego that possibility.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 11:24 AM | | Comments (97)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

This line of thought makes no sense to me. Even if the FO has made a decision to go after Fielder, it would be negligent to not have a backup plan. Not to say I think we'll get Fielder (or should get him), but I don't see how this trade is remotely related to that. Someone else will want Davis if we can't use him.

I don't see any of this "message" that is claimed to have been sent.

Picking up two unproven guys is hardly means the Orioles are set at 1B. It is that kind of thinking that has the Orioles as the laughing stock of MLB.

It seems like every year some prospect has a decent month or two in the rotation and then the prospect is assumed to be part of the rotation the next year and end up failing miserably.

Personally I wouldn't throw money at Fielder but thinking they are set at 1B with the guys they picked up is foolish.

I commend your focus on the weekend's deals and their implications for the future. But there will be no need to convince PA of anything. I'm sure the moves were via a directive from the top: 'Get rid of DLee and find some cheap plug-ins at first so I won't have to listen to the fans' whining about signing Prince.' Just another cynical attempt to fleece the fans into thinking the FO is trying to improve this sorry franchise. Another big F U to the fans, again.

I personally don't feel there was any chance regardless of whether we signed Davis that we were going to go after Fielder. We just don't go after those types of players. Besides, I thought he would go after someone like that when we were one player away (we're a half dozen away). Catch 22...we will never be one player away if we don't go after players like that. The pitching is awful...I say trade Jones although if it's a developmental issue w/in the organization, I'm not sure what we should do. Some of these pitching prospects were highly touted and they've not panned out so far.

The second that I learned that Os received this AAA 1B in return for our best pitcher. I knew that it was more about quieting the fans on the Fielder issue before the stove ever gets a chance to get hot.
With exception of, MAYBE, a lower tier reliever or 2, this team is set (in the eyes of McPhail for 2012). Brian Roberts will soon be retired from the game.

ss-Hardy, rf-Markakis, cf-Jones,
3b-Reynolds, c-Weiters, dh-Scott,
lf-Reimold, 1b-C.Davis,
2b-Andino/B.Davis

Play-offs here we come.

They should go after Prince anyways to signal that this organization is serious about winning. We don't even know how well Chris Davis will do yet. The rest of this season will be the test to see if the Orioles will have a mild or strong interest in Fielder (in how well Davis does).

We are kidding ourselves if we think we are ever going to sign a frontline player. Years of self-delusion.

Good thing the O's kept Guthrie because they have killed the confidence of Matusz, Britton and Tillman.

I know by now Pete you probably are growing very tired of my stance concerning Nick M. However the more time that goes on the more i am convinced that the orioles should have moved Nick M at yesterday's trading deadline. I agree with everybodies assessment that his prohibitive salary, [something by the way is another topic all together] is part of the reason why he couldn't be traded. How ever Everybody from Andy, buck, the media , and the fans, keep telling everybody that nick is the least of the orioles worries. That might be true if everybody just takes him as a guy who does play hard everyday, never gets injured, doesn't cause any problems, and is a great community leader.However if you look at this a lot closer what you will find is out of the top 20 right fielders in this league he is last in slugging percentage, only Suzuki,and Fukudome have lower and fukudome has been hurt and only has 293 ab's.He is last in extra base hits with only 27 and has grounded into more double plays then everybody except tori hunter.

Now that all goes unnoticed to everybody that i have mentioned above except to me. I have nothing personal against nick but i will maintain regardless of what anybody say's that nick is part of this team problems and should have been dealt away for prospects. You can put anybody in right field and he will give you the numbers that nick gives you for a lot less then 11 million a year. He is never going to be the player that the orioles envisioned him to be , he will never carry this ball team on his back to the playoffs and will continue to just be a 27 year old in his prime singles hitter that everybody thinks is just great but it's not .Pete you have to demand more from him and thats the problem with this team and it's management. I sincerely hope that one day somebody takes the time and makes the effort to at least write about this some more. Pete please Don't get tired of this topic expose it.Because whether it's not going to be the most popular move it's the right move.

Bob Lancione
.

peter even if the orioles did not get a first baseman for koji any one thinking that prince fielder ie/was a pipe dream. scot boras is going to ask for a contract that far more than what price fielder is worth. as for the orioles young pithers they have shown that they are not mentally prepared for the major leagues and not ready for prme time. what i have not seen in any of the writing about the two new orioles is how long do the orioles have control of tommy hunter and chris davis. if tommy hunter does not have very good work ethics the orioles should not keep him around taking up space for someone who really wants to pitch for the oioles.

Peter, let's spend our money on PITCHING, PITCHING, AND MORE PITCHING. Acquiring Fielder is just a "dream" so let's forget about that now.
I believe the O's made the right move by not trading Guthrie. We need Guthrie now more than ever.

Pete,

If Angelos has ten million dollars to throw away getting a building named after his parents, he can afford to spend a lot more on his baseball team. The Orioles have the same needs and the same holes they had when Macphail got here. They need an impact bat in his prime for the middle of the lineup, and two proven top of the line starters. Andy hasn't grown the latter, nor has he acquired the former. All he ever does is pick up over the hill veterans in the offseason, and then trade them for so/so prospects after the Orioles are out of the race by the All Star break. That's not a plan, it's a white flag for a professional sports franchise about to endure it's 14th consecutive losing season.

I congratulate you for being the first at "The Sun" to reason out Andy's real motive in acquiring Davis and Baker. After Vlad is gone later this month, the Orioles will have dumped nearly 20 million in salary...and that's just what Angelos wants. He is preoccupied looking for more buildings and places to get named after his family. He is saving his fortune for more esoteric purposes.

When is it ok to start speculating about 2013, because last place next year is a lock.

Peter, I am always against paying someone 20 or 25 million a year. There was no need to pay Teixeira that kind of money and there's no need to pay Fielder that kind of money.

Even the Yankees, that financial behemoth, are going to be hamstrung by the deals for Jeter and Rodriguez, not to mention Tex. And if, as some have suggested, they go out and get Fielder to be their DH, that's another hamstringing deal.

In addition to Davis, who certainly has the potential to tie into a few, and Baker, who has nice power, from what the trade journals say, they have the 6-6, 260 Joe Mahoney at Bowie. Mahoney, the Orioles minor league pplayer of the year last year, got hurt to begin this season, and has recovered well enough to put up nice numbers with the Baysox. He would have been at Norfolk if not for his injury, and will likely end up there by the end of this season. He will definitely be with the Tides next year and will be knocking on the door by this time next year.

For once, the Orioles do have some options. So, I for one, am very happy the Orioles are exploring other avenues to improve. If that means throwing some Fielder money at a SP, I'm all for it. Just gotta watch out for a Barry Zito type return.

Honestly I do not want us to go out and sign Prince Fielder just simply because one player will not fix this team. We need starting pitching and I am hoping the Orioles instead of investing 20+ Millon in a postion player go out and invest in quality starting pitching like C.J. WIlson and Edwin Jackson. I also doubt if we could get Prince that David Or Aaron Baker would be any threat to him. If there is anyone in are system that has a future with are team and possibly are future first baseman it's hands down Tyler Townsend.

Honestly, who even cares anymore and what's the point in speculating? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Angelos won't spend the money, regardless of who the Orioles traded for. This team is at rock bottom, and I'm sure many people would say they've been there for a long time.

What's different this season from the past 12 is that there was actual, legitimate, justifiable "hope" and optimism heading into 2011. Even the players were excited. That's all but gone now. The only thing that would bring that back at this point is if Angelos did a 180 and decided that it's time to write checks to players who will actually make a difference like the Yankees and Red Sox do, and showed the fans he's succumbed to the desperation for change we've all knelt down and clenched our fingers so tirelessly together for for what feels like an eternity now. Otherwise, I think it's safe to say the Orioles, or at least any ounce of hope and optimism, have truly flatlined on all cylinders.

The idea of Prince Fielder and the Orioles has been a complete pipe dream from the start. First, ownership would never make an offer that would top anyone else, and second, when there would be options, why would any player want to be a part of such a continually failed operation?
As long as the Angelos family is in control, the bias--as proven on the international front, with the Hopgood choice, and many others--will be to gamble on the cheaper side.

A pity.

seriously? your first thoughts are about how this trade will affect the chances of us trying to acquire fielder?
we do not have a chance in hell of acquiring him regardless of this trade.
we go through this same tired exercise every season...we see who the best FA is going to be and then we dream of some kind of scenario having the orioles sign that FA. it never happens. give up.
we get guys like we always get. the team's situation is hopeless. and nothing will change that until some sort of league realignment, along with a return to a balanced schedule and adding more playoff teams.

Like they were ever going to persue him anyhow!

There is no way on God's green earth that Prince Fielder or any other decent free agent is coming to Baltimore. The payment, even if it is 30% over market value, will not make up for the frustration of playing on this team. We have too many "not ready for prime time" players.

To sign Fielder would be a gross mistake - he is out of shape and continues to gain weight forecasting problems in the future - give Davis and the new A player the opportunity - and I agree that arms are more necessary - but I do wish we would get our guys to play major league defense - Wieters and JJ both played high school ball trying to catch the ball and Reynolds didn't react in time to get Cano - those outs we didn't get cost us Sunday's game

Chris Davis may shore up 1B in Norfolk, but until he proves he can hit major league pitching (and I'm not talking about a bases-empty HR 20 or so times a season), we are NOT even close to "set" at 1B at the major league level.

Even if MacPhail and/or Angelos could somehow convince us that they acknowledge this, Prince Fielder still would not come here. Maybe if we were teetering on .500 and it was clear a bonafide power bat (one w/an .avg that ascends the .250 mark) was all that was needed. However, after a season that ended 6 weeks ago, Angelos would have to make Fielder part owner in order to even get him to listen.

I'll buy into the rationale that Guthrie will be most valuable in the offseason. However if, say, Cincinnati (in dire need of SP) had 1B prospect Yonder Alonso on the table and MacPhail demanded more, then he blew it and there are no excuses.

There is no more benefit of any doubt going around the warehouse. They've used it all.

HAAHAHA. What bat has MacFAIL bought? Mark Reynolds? Mr. 25-30 HRs? He has given up that many runs with the errors he makes at third base on a nightly basis. Derek Lee? Vlad? Sorry, but it is obvious to the fan base that they are way past their primes and hurting the team. JJ Hardy's hitting has been completely unexpected; he was signed because Izturis was probably the worst "bat" in baseball at his position. How about his half assed offer to Texiera? The O's didn't even match the Yankees. Sorry, but the phrase "buying the bats" was a flat out lie. And this probably still goes back to Angelos, who is a real life Ebenezer Scrooge. The Orioles will continue their downward spiral indefinitely; please put the fans on suicide watch.

u think for a second that he would have EVER come here? where have you been the last 13 + years?????

What about moving Davis to 3rd, Reynolds to DH, and still getting Fielder?

Bird in the hand, Pete. Let's be honest here- the O's chances of landing Fielder were only slightly better than their chances of landing Teixera. Davis will be interesting- he only has what, 400 major league at-bats? So he's either going to be a pretty good major leaguer, or one of the best 4A players who ever lived. You can almost say the same for Hunter. Either way, B-more kinda robbed Texas blind in that trade.

Talk about a leap...Only on a loser organization would this mean they wouldn't pursue an All Star first baseman like Fielder because they got a 25 yr old castaway. I'm rooting for Davis but c'mon we've seen this movie before and the ending ain't pretty.

Pete,

Andy made this deal so the fans would no longer think of Prince. The idea of him coming here was always a joke anyway.

how could you ever defer to anything Andy does at this point? The club is in complete shambles and you and the rest of us already know there is zero hope for 2012.

Kevin C wrote a terrific piece about the team. I can tell that he and even you are beond frustrated at this point. I know u have to cover the team as best u can, but it must be very difficult.

The orioles are a complete disaster. If Andy left tomorrow, the next gm would be taking over a franchise in complete disarray.

When you mask posters next season how many games we think the team will win, it'll be even worse than prior to 2011. How sad is that?

At least in KC, they have the excuse of being in a small market. That team would be so much easier to follow, as they have a legitimate excuse for failure.

To Andy and Peter though, failure is 'The Oriole Way'........ And they could care less....

Peter, this is the scenario that I was afraid of. Why is the thinking that we can't bring in Fielder? The though process should be that if we land Fielder we can trade the two 1b prospects for a position that we have a need for (Left field, anybody?) You have to think that eventually Baltimore has to start addressing the problem of making the current team better as opposed to always building for the future.

What this means is that even the Orioles are not stupid enought to think that Prince Fielder would sign here and resign himself to another decade or two of losing.

Good point Peter. No disrespect to Chris Davis but if the O's are signalling that their future starting first baseman is a .240 hitter with low to avg power, then the future looks like the present and past. There is simply no sign of urgency on the part of management in the face of a 14th losing season and one that has left the frustrated fan base with almost no hope that the future looks any brighter. All we have/had to cling to was the hope that Angelos would open his wallet and spend some mad money on players like Prince Fielder or some top-ranked pitchers. As you note, the odds of that happening just got longer (and the lines at Camden Yards just keep getting shorter--except when filled with Yankees or Bosox fans who love to watch their teams come beat us like a cheap rug). I have been down about this team for a long time but the feeling now approaches existential dread.

The baseball team would NEVER make an offer to Fielder. They are NOT and never were interested in him. Come on don't insult our intelligence by assuming otherwise. Make money and lose or make less money and lose. 2012 is another last place season. Fool me once......fool me 13+ years.

This isn't serious is it? No one who is paid to cover sports could actually think that trading for David would affect what the Orioles would or would not do regarding Fielder.

Seriously, why would Fielder want to play for the Orioles? Why would any competitve player want to?

There was zero chance before that we'd land Prince.

There is still zero chance.

You would think Peter "Loss" Angelos would try something different after 14 losing seasons. Like "sell the team".

I don't see Andy spending that kind of PA's money (if he is still with the O's). I don't see PA's spending that kind of money. I don't see Chris Davis doing much more than Glenn Davis did as an Oriole but I do see another losing season on the way in 2012 unless something different happen like PA's hiring an aggressive GM and letting him do what need to straighten out the organization.
Just a thought!

Did anyone here actually believe for one moment that the O's would make a serious attempt to get Fielder even before this trade?

Unfortunately, I agree. Business as usual for the Orioles. Now we have strikeout machines at both corners with Reynolds & Davis. The front office will declare that 1B is now solid and no longer a need. I don't see this club getting any better in the near or far future. For the first time in my life I'm contemplating switching my allegiance from my home town team.

Oh no! The Orioles won't be getting Prince Fielder now... I really thought the Orioles were going to sign him - you know, to add to all those other big name free agents they have been signing under AM.

Peter - I love your columns, but I don't know how you keep up the optimism.

I can't imagine that this places us out of the Fielder sweepstakes and here are two reasons why:

1) Davis can play 3B and the Corner Outfields,
2) Reynolds can (and should) play DH or be traded as he is too much of a defensive liability.

I dont think signing Fielder would have been good for this franchise anyway. They still need 3 or 4 starters because the ones coming from our minors dont appear to be major league quality.

This column puzzles me. Lee and Guerrero were both gone at season's end opening two spots and LF is still open too. Davis has played 1B, 3B and LF. And, he's a minimum salary guy leaving all the Guerrero and Lee cash available ($15.5M) toward a portion of Fielder (or someone else). This conveys only good things to a FA (depth, potential, cash available) but in reality Fielder is going to Chicago. It's an easy commute from Milwaukee and it's the same league and division making the transition easier too. Come on Pete, you know that's the deal.

Chris Davis can play multiple positions. In fact, he did not play a single inning at 1B this season for the Rangers' AAA team: 26 games at 3B, 14 games at LF, and 8 games at DH.

I don't think the O's go after Fielder either, but the Chris Davis acquisition will not be what prevents them from doing so.

I think every knowleble fan feels the same way we will need a 1B/DH NEXT YEAR and 40-50 HR guys do not call often.. Unless tere is another target available at a need spot I would still have to persue Fielder until they find another top player they figure they need more.

Couldn't the O's simply trade Chris Davis if they have an opportunity to bring in Prince?

Pete,
I too like the moves off getting those three players, but what does this move mean for Brandon Snyder? I think he deserves a real shot to play everyday, not the few pinch hitting opputuniites he had so far. can we now trade Vlad for a pizza to make room for Snyder?

There is noway the Orioles would have a chance at getting Prince. It would be career suicide on his part. This team and organization is absolutly pathetic. So is the Sun for continuing to legitimize this regime. There is NO plan! Please Peter, start calling these bums out for there incompetence!

Is there really much of a chance that Prince Fielder is going to sign a contract to play for another inconsequential ballclub. At an rate, the addition of Prince would do little to help the Os, whose problems are widespread. I think this team needs to start unloading veterans more aggressively and building up prospects. If they are going to spend, spend it on international prospects, not free agents like Fielder. If there is a team more embarrassing then the Os, it might be the Tides, who are a ridiculous thirty games below .500. If that doesn't say something about the state of your farm system, I don't know what does. Let's stop thinking about 2012, 2013 or even 2014 and get serious about rebuilding this franchise. Trade Guthrie, trade Jones, who is having the best season of his career. trade Reynolds. Heck, I would even field offers for Wieters if the offer is right. It's a shame that we have locked in Hardy, Roberts and Markakis to long contracts because these guys should be heading to other, more competitive teams in exchange
for prospects. Let's take a page from the Rays and create a farm system that will feed our MLB club for years to come.

I've never been that thrilled with Prince--especially for $100 million. His numbers are good, but a move to the AL East would diminish his production. Additionally; he's at least 90 pounds overweight and that doesn't look good for a long term deal. His father pretty much burned out after age 32. I'd rather take all that money and spread it out over 3 or 4 players.

Peter,

Chris Davis did not come with a no trade clause so if he does not work out; he can be gone as fast as he got here...OR...he can move to 3rd as they suggest he might be capable of and move Reynolds and his 20 errors to DH.

It wouldn't stop any other winning team from going after him. And it is more than a stretch to say that the orioles have "shored up their organizational depth at first" or " that the Orioles are now set at first ".

A triple-A and a single-A prospects does not a solidified team make.

Calling Crush Davis major-league-ready is a MAJOR stretch. this guy has been a fantasy baseball wet dream for a years and has yet to deliver anything but mountains of strikesouts; he's a mechanical nightmare. it would be so g.d. TYPICAL if the O's front office used the acquisition of Davis to back out of pursuing Fielder.

It wouldn't stop any other winning team from going after him. And it is more than a stretch to say that the orioles have "shored up their organizational depth at first" or " that the Orioles are now set at first ". A triple-A and a single-A prospects does not a solidified team make.

Sadly, my 7 year old son told me on Sunday that he didn't want to root for the Orioles anymore. "All they do is lose, Dad. I want to root for the Nats."

Pete, you are pretty much calling it. All the buzz about Prince coming here was just wishful thinking. The bottom line is that the O's FO is simply insane. They continue to do the same thing expecting a different result.

Yes, another reclamation project. This time a guy who will give Mark Reynolds (who was a good acquisition) a run for his money with the K's. Fielder was never coming here. He would go to the Yankees or Sox as DH before he would even look our way.

Pete, you are usually a pretty smart guy. Heck, if I were trying to borrow money from you, you might be the smartest guy I have ever met.

But now even you are drinking the orange kool-aid.

Truthfully, I'm not a big Prince fan. I think he will inevitably eat himself out of baseball, and soon. But that aside, Fielder is not coming here. Period. Yes, he has nowhere to go, as the Red Sox, Yankees, and Phillies are out of the picture. But there are plenty of rebuilding or crap teams that he'll join - including the Brewers - before he comes to this cesspool of an organization.

Besides, no way Mr. A. would pony up the kind of money Prince would want, regardless of the condition of either first base or Fielder.

And finally, Chris Davis will show himself to either be the answer or not by the end of the season. And the answer will be that he won't. Other than Raffy, the Orioles have not had a real first baseman since Eddie Murray in the '80s. No reason to believe that this guy will be the one.

We all know the real problem - ownership. Until that gets resolved, we fans need to rid ourselves of free agency addiction. Nobody of any worth is coming here. Not now. Not ever, so long as Mr. A. owns the team.

We can build from within, but we have shown ourselves to be completely incompetent at that as well.

No more Kool-aid. This is a hard-core loser organization. Period. No Prince Fielder, no anybody who is any good, is coming here.

I will give you a prediction. Prince winds up in Washington. Why the owner will spend outrageous amounts for beyound what value is. This is why no one else will get him . Another Steinbrenner plan to the south.

Be that as it may for 2 reasons I do not want Prince
1. He is not worht it on the bais of Risk level with ijury and body issues.
2. The O's are not one player away. We are at best 2014 in the hunt for one player. There are too many holes to fill. Spenidng money on multiple positions is better. BUT the free agent market is not worht it this year. So we will need to consider a step back with trading some of our players and hope for 2 steps forward as a positve result of the trades with players received.

Then too we have certain players we do need to tie up long term-Jones, Weiters,.???
Letting the young pitchers stay in the minors and find themselves this year can help us in trades. Ad Tillman and Guthrie this winter together and what is the return? Young top talent pitching??? We need to package to get ml ready talent now.

Forget Prince. His crouwn is cracked. Playing this year for a contract.

Peter,

I love your commentary, as always. Though I kind of disagree with you here. It's not that I don't agree with you that something must be done for the offense of this team, but only because the priority list is long and hasn't shortened after this season. Just like many years in the recent past, we will enter the offseason needing a real answer for the middle of the order, and, pitching. Pitching with a capital "P," in fact!

Let's hypothetically assume we added Fielder to the team. Let's assume the best case scenario and it has a ripple effect throughout the lineup in '12, and lays the ground work for a few breakthroughs a la '11 Hardy for some of the promising younger position players. All of that will be great, but we still might not have any change in the starting pitching. And, as we've seen this year in flashes, and as you probably know (and sick to death of mentioning), the combination of a sparking offense and sagging pitching is a losing baseball team.

Until there is some reasonable trends that change on the pitching front that give us some reason to project success, adding a big bat like Fielder would only be another Tejada-like addition for this decade. Another caveat to this is that, MacPhail's non-commital answers about his contract sound like he may be setting the stage for his exit. So, the next GM might have a different idea of franchise policy as far as "Grow the arms, buy the bats."

Pete,

Guthrie's a guy "whose" services will be in dire need next year, because he's also, despite his dismal record, a guy "who's" the best they've got.

(Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Hi Peter! I am not trying to sound snarky, but do you really think there is any chance Fielder would come to Baltimore? Thanks for your columns....I really enjoy the ones you do sometimes on Sundays.....the point/counterpoint type columns.

God, I hope not.

What is the big deal about this guy ?
Yes.... he';s a very good and powerful hitter right now, but just like his daddy, his deteriorating athleticism and downhill health from carrying all that weight will cut his playing days short.

Any team that invests in him long term is asking for trouble.

I like Joe Mahoney as the Orioles future first-baseman. Chris Davis, Mark Reynolds, and /or Josh Bell will fill in just fine in the meantime.

Stay away from fat slobs like Fielder.
He's a disgrace to the sport.

Be real Schumck...does anyone other than the media in Baltimore actually think Prince Fielder wants to play in Baltimore? Oh, I forgot...you need readers and my dumb a** fell for it. Only local sports "reporters" and eejits actually think Fielder or Pujols would actually leave a winning team to play for a perennial loser like the Orioles. I bet you actually think they can acquire Fielder for Craig Tatum and Felix Pie too.

Peter,

Really, why would Prince Fielder, who will have virtually every big spending team that also wins calling him, come to Baltimore?

That DH comment is a subtle shout out to the Yankees who will need a DH to replace Posada and protect Texiera. Or, the Red Sox, who are money drunk.

Angelos does not have enough money to entice him to a last place team.

As far as buying pitchers, sure, but agents do not want their pitching 'A' clients to come to Baltimore because it's a hitters park and at the end of their contracts their HR, ERA and WHIP numbers are inflated and it's hard to get an even bigger contract when they become free agents.

And to top it off, you're right, the pool is thin and I'm sure it will get thinner as teams sign guys to extensions.

We may not like it, but I think we are committed to the youth movement and the O's will have to try and get them back on track.


pete,

with roberts being iffy, why isn't adams being handed second base to sink or swim?

Did you honestly believe that the Orioles were going to go after Fielder? What are they putting in your press lounge food?

sign fielder (haha) and move davis to left. we got a HUGE hole out there.

O's don't need Fielder ,they need starting pitchers! A real rotation that can get batters out. Davis can play first base there's another 1st baseman in the minors. Find another 2nd baseman b/c if Roberts don't play this season it won't matter next season either. Find starters who can pitch, and please resign KojI after his stint in Texas.

stop youre killing me ha ha , prince here , sure we offer him camden yard he wont be here comon schmuck , cant you find things to write about us orioles fans all 73 dont need you to ruin our pipe dreams get real man this team should be in doulble a and all pitching coaches from rookie league on up should be shot on site!

If the trades the Orioles made bringing back to 1st basemen ( 1 Major league ready) isnt writing on the wall about not going after Fielder, I dont know what is.

Peter, I would think the decision depends on how Chris Davis performs for the rest of this season.

If he performs that will probably damper MacPhail's interest in Fielder.

I personally believe the O's need to get better and Chris Davis is more like a Reimold than a Prince.

Pete - Why are you writing such stuff? Maybe--and underscore that word--MAYBE if B-Rob didn't get hurt, the young pitching didn't take a step back, Vlad and D-Lee hadn't started showing their ages, Markakis and Reynolds hadn't taken so long to find their strokes, and left field hadn't been a black hole for much of the season, maybe then the Orioles may have had a decent enough year that Fielder might consider the Orioles, assuming of course that they threw more money at him than anyone else and none of the other clubs competing for his service looked to have a decent chance at contending.

Since none of that came to pass (or will come to pass), it doesn't make any sense to be writing about the O's killing their chances to get him in the off season by trading Davis. NO, they killed their chances a month or so ago when their season tanked.

davis can play 3rd and left and fielder by all reports is a better defensive player or i could say fielder is a better fielder. the o's should go after fielder. davis could also dh. and davis could be a bust and the o's could try joe mahoney who is currently at bowie. after this yr the o's really need to make a splash in the free agent market next yr to try to regain some of the fan's confidence as well as improving this pathetic team.

What sad, strange times are these that local sports columnists tell us that the message that's being sent is that were "set" at first base after acquiring a 23-year-old who's still in A-ball and a "major league ready" first baseman who can't hit major league pitching?

What a bummer of a post, Schmuck.

I mean, clearly, there has never been a chance that King Peter and Uncle Andy would shell out the money it would take to bring in a real, proven, top of the line stud like Prince Fielder, but to think that this organization really believes they're "set" after acquiring Aaron Baker and Chris Davis... Man... Our owner and GM are more delusional/out-of-touch/pathetic than I thought.

Speaking of delusional...

What's this about Jeremy Guthrie having a "breakout season in 2012"? Seriously, Schmuck? Guthrie put up a sub-4.00 ERA in three of his first four full seasons. A solid finish to 2011 will make that four out of five. And the guy is 33 years old. At this point, he is what he is. Unless he finds the fountain of youth or starts taking untraceable steroids, I think we've seen the extent of Jeremy Guthrie's abilities.

I don't see how these acquisitions would keep the from going after Prince. If I'm not mistaken it is possible to have good prospects in the system while having a star at the same position. I know the O's aren't used to that, but many other clubs around the majors use this kind of system. Also, it's not like they couldn't trade any of these players if they do land Fielder (which I believe is a big IF!) Come on, Pete. You can't seriously think that trading for an average first basement and a prospect would keep any other team from going after the top free agent available this off season.

I think you are spot on Pete, with one exception. I believe that Andy MacPhail is a dead man walking in his present position and is either history in September or will assume another position with the club. I need to see it before I would believe it, whether Showalter, Heart or Cal as the next GM would sign on unless Fielder was part of the plan seeing that it seems like money is the only object to him coming here. Now should Chris Davis take this opportunity and run with it between now and the end of the season that might be a different story but I am not sure that Davis is not being penciled in for a possible third base replacement with Reynolds being next years DH.

There's absolutely zero chance Fielder would come here anyway. You know that, Pete.

The O's aren't even playing with Confederate money at this point. It's Monopoly money, or worse, after this disgusting disappointment of a season. I just can't believe we can't EVER catch a break with any of our supposed "top prospect" pitchers. I mean every single one is a bust. Such a joke. There is seriously no hope for this franchise. None, whatsoever.

Pete,

At this point in the season, there are only 4 MLB teams that have hit more HRs than he Orioles. The team HR and offensive production will not suffer with the depature of Derrek Lee. Chris Davis can match Lee's offense production pace for this year and probably improve on it next year. I hope Scott returns next year as the DH. If I were Peter Angelos I wouldn't spend anything for a slow footed Prince that the team doesn't need.

PA will not go after Fielder because he can produce. The O's track record here is clear.

Are you serious, Davis is our first basemen of the future and Orioles are not going to go after Fielder???

It's not about "...shoring up their organizational depth at first base..." No Schmucker, we heard that about third baseman Josh Bell, who has yet to amount to poop.

No this tired fan base demands, and rightfully so, a serious shot at Fileder. It's time to spend dthe MASN money Peter.

We may have first base depth, but is it quality depth? Are they premium players who can matchup with Mark Teixeira and Adrian Gonzalez?

If the answer is no, then the Orioles need to sign Fielder anyway. Only with premium talent will the Orioles compete. Just having depth at the position is not enough.

If Chris Davis shows he's not the solution, I expect the Orioles to replace him with somebody who is.

Prince wasn't going to sign with us anyway, so get over it! It was a nice dream but it will not happen regardless of how much money we throw at him.

Worry not weed-hopper - our beloved O's never could never convince a Fielder or a Pujols to come to Baltimore of all places...they wouldn't they offer enough money and serously, why would any top notch FA want to come to a perrenial loser? I think going with young players like Davis and Hunter is very wise. Its better (and much less expensive)than the band-aid approach like when we signed Vlad and Lee.

Pitching and defense. It works a lot better than aging sluggers. Look at the great Orioles teams of the past and even good, small and mid market teams of the current era. Spend $30-45 million on starting pitching and another $10-15 million in the bullpen and then a bunch of $1.5-$3 million speedy defensive players along with your few standouts C+ to B+ players (Markakis, Hardy, Jones, Roberts, Scott) and that team will look like the Giants or Twins and have a chance to win every day. At least they will be competitive, would probably bring in more revenue and be more exciting to fans. What would the Orioles be like if they had Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt, Jeremy Guthrie, and Roy Halliday? Then their young arms could be their bullpen, not some over-hyped and over-matched AAA pitchers teasing us fans every spring. You don't have to score many runs when your opponents can't score off of you.

Oh yeah, we're "set" at first. I'd throw him out there against Texiera, A-Gon, or Lind any day. Stats are overrated.

Rudderless outfit!!!

I'm glad Guthrie is still here. The Orioles needed to add to their starting pitching, not subtract from it, and they accomplished that. On paper, the Koji trade looks good. They got a potential starting pitcher whose 2010 record was better than any of the O's 2011 starters, and a first baseman with proven power. But Texas apparently had had enough of Davis. And history suggests that he's going to wash out with the O's. (Then he'll likely be resurrected by another team.) Regardless, if Hunter can start next year and hold a sub- 4.00 ERA, then it was a good trade.

Growing arms and buying bats is not a bad philosophy. The problem with the Orioles version of this philosophy is that every good pitcher they get in the bull pen gets traded away...even young ones. Just think what Hernandez would have been like to have in the bull pen this year....even an option for starting again. Also, think what it would have been like to have George Sherrill, Will Ohman (Wouldn't you trade Gonzalez for Ohman if you had the chance?). Chris Ray was a good loss, because since his injury, he was never the same. Good relief pitchers don't grow on trees. I know in some of the trades we got some good position players (Reynolds, Hardy) but we got no replacement for the lose of a pitcher. So, although we may grow the arms (or get them through free agency) we loss them too and weaken the whole staff in the process.

I know a good way to get MacPhail to overpay Prince Fileder-Convince him that it's really Cecil Fielder, that will go along with his track record of overpaying over-the-hill veterans.

Hey Pete,

LTNS. Let me preface this post by saying that I love Guthrie and I like having him around. That being said, he's going to be 33 at the beginning of next season. While I'm sure he's fully capable of taking his game to another level, I cannot see the logic in holding on to him beyond this winter.

I've finally become jaded and I find myself wondering what's wrong with Hunter and Davis that we were able to get them for Koji and $2mill. I would much rather be excited about these acquisitions, especially since I was in favor of trading Koji.

I'm now 600 miles away from the team, so they aren't in front of me everyday. That, unfortunately, is making it easier to ignore them at times. I hope something changes soon, though I'm fearful it won't.

"There's no doubt Guthrie has the potential to have a breakout season in 2012..."

LOL...good one.

I can't fathom trading Kogi. When he filled in as Closer, I though he had nailed that role. I don't know all the stats but I know I felt confident when he came out of the bullpen and can't really say that for anyone else on the staff. Sayonara Kogi - you will be missed.
Greg Dunn

" Shored up their organizational deplth at first base." If you combined the talents of all our first basemen, they wouldn't be 1/4 as good as Prince Fielder. And Pete, he plays everyday at first base in Milwaukee, which is in the National League. You do know that, right? But I guess any excuse, no matter how weak it is, will do to justify not making a bold move to make this team better, right? So while Fielder will be crushing home runs in Texas or Toronto, or Washington, we'll have the pleasure of watching Chris Davis hit .250 (if he's lucky), strike out every third at bat, while waiting for our future first basemen, Tyler Townsend, who will be on the disabled list in Bowie for the the third time. Ah yes, Orioles baseball. I love the smell of loser in the morning.

Pick up Mike Napoli from Texas for 1st base.
Pick up Kelley Johnson from Arizona for 2nd base.
Pick up Emilio Bonafacio from Florida for 3rd base.
All are free agents. All have great power and are young. This would make a formidible lineup. Please tell PA. I am sick of losing.
Oh by the way all could be had for total of 8 mil for multi yr deals. Thats the kicker

Peter,
I think you just summed up the Orioles' biggest problem right there. They are content getting serviceable players to fill their roster who will be average at best rather than putting in the money and effort to get All-Star caliber players. For once it would be nice if the aquired a player that doesn't fit into the "could be good in a few years or was good a few years ago" category. Let's shoot for more than mediocrity!

Well Chris Davis hit his first home run last night so for now not a complete bust.... Tommy throws the ball well and great movement on his 90 mph off speed pitch... Get him in shape and in the rotation..... Not saying Chris Davis is our answer at first but it would be nice have fielder at 1st over him.... Hopefully Chris Davis makes the most out of the opportunity and shows he can play in the bigs

Peter what is up with Showalter playing Pie over and over again in left field. Why aren't they playing Nolan? Do you know if he is in the dog house for some reason

Pathetic. Just pathetic.

The excuses that Oriole fans make up for their meddling owner/pathetic GM team are mind-boggling.

What was it a few years ago? We don't need Matt Holliday because we have Nolan Reimold? How well did that work out?

And now, we shouldn't sign Prince Fielder because he's too fat? At least there's some logic in that. Sure, Prince would be a big risk (no pun intended), but this game is about risk. If you don't take chances, you don't win. And this team hasn't taken a chance since 1995.

Prince Fielder will be 28 years old next May. You want to use his father as a comparable? Cecil was a very good ballplayer through his 32-year-old season, and he averaged 142 games per year from age 28 through age 32.

And guess what? Prince is better than Cecil was. He hits for a higher average, he gets on base more and he hits for more power.

But there's too much risk, right? Prince might be out of baseball in four years, so it would be ridiculous to sign him to a six year contract. But, hey, you know what? Anyone might be out of baseball in four years. Anyone can tear a rotator cuff. Or blow out an ACL. Or suffer from the effects of a concussion. Or get hit in the head and go blind. Or anything else that can happen to a human that would stop him from playing ball.

You have to take risks in this game. If you don't you lose.

The latest deadline moves are no different than those in past years. Pick up a few mediocre prospects and hope the fans buy it; this time as evidenced by the posts, the fans are smarter now.
Subsitute Davis for Josh Bell for example....Meanwhile the team just gets worse as we no longer have a decent pen because we traded our best reliever. Factor in a weak and decimated starting rotation, combined with a retread-filled collection of relievers and you have all the ingredients for a 60 win season.
I agree with the others-Fielder is not coming here!! The O's have become a sad sack franchise that is giving the impression that all they are quite content just sending out warm bodies, no matter how unproductive they are.
Well, fans are getting sick of this 'plan' so I hope they send their message by staying home in droves. That might be the only way King Peter finally gets motivated to put together some makings of an MLB roster but I am not holding my breath!

Make no mistake about it nofront line player at any position will wantto come to the os, the dye has been cast for the future go after anyone at any level that is interested in joining the os and you will see that the glass is already empty

Instead of over-paying for "half-fast" retread players, what say we put that money towards expanding our international scouting presence about 10-fold and start "over-paying" for the best regarded - both veteran an young up-and-coming - scouts and player development people instead. Start with a GM who knows where to find 'em and then open the check book.

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About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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