so koji has some trade value,i guess if the orioles trade him,as usual they will get a washed up has been career monor leagurer. on the nick greene trade,what was the texas gm thinking.giving up a 25 year old for a washed up utility player,wow. if the orioles trade gutherie,which i think they will,i expect a no nothing in exchange.

A few September starts won't tell you much. Until a guy gets a couple years experience as a starter it is a crap shot. We've seen that with a number of starters the Orioles have tried - Bergesen, Matusz, Tillman, etc.

They come up, do ok for a while and then collapse once the league adjusts to them or they have injuries/confidence issues.

Peter, as much as I like Mark Reynolds, and he is having a good season, David Hernandez is having an outstanding year for the Diamondbacks. I know hindsight is 20-20, but knowing what we know now, and with all the pitching problems the Orioles are having, do you still make that trade?

The other pitchers involved in the two trades haven't done much, indeed, the Hardy trade can be called a steal for the Orioles right now. But wouldn't Hernandez look great in the Orioles' bullpen right now?

I'd have NO problem with O's trading a lot of their vets except for fact that mid-season trades over the past 12-13 years have netted us NOTHING. No one on our current roster nor any top prospect has come via these trades. We've moved a lot of decent players (Conine, Sherrill, Hupp, Tejeda etc) over teh years and have NOTHING to show for it. Perhaps you could do a piece on these mid-season trades i.e. when you fail over 10-15 trades something doesn't smell right. Were (are) they merely disguised Salary Dumps OR is our minor league scouting so inept?? See no other explanation for this long string of worthless 'trades'.

Who will be the orioles gm next year nag who will be the coach

The O's will be stuck in last place forever if they continue to groom their homegrown players into quality major leaguers just to trade them away for prospects. The point is Jim Johnson has become a force for the O's and I consider him a part of that young O's nucleus. Trading him would be a mistake.

Hey Pete,

The Orioles need at least two established quality starting pitchers. Same as last year and the year before. So again this year, Andy goes out and finds a broken down vet, Justin Duchscherer, whom I predicted would never throw a pitch for the Orioles.

The Orioles should trade everything that is not nailed down, so that it will appear to Bud Selig that they are actually making a serious attempt to rebuild. This franchise is contracting, closing down minor league teams, and can only sign half of their draft choices because we have nowhere to send them. Pathetic.

Angelos won't spend the money to scout the Caribbean. Along with his other austerity moves, he appears to be a business owner divesting parts of the operation and getting ready to go out of business. Major League Baseball should accommodate Angelos, contract, and strip Baltimore of it's franchise. Yes, I know he signed Hardy. Window dressing, and a feint.

Maybe then we can get an expansion franchise headed by an owner or management group who exhibits a genuine desire to compete. The Baltimore Orioles are part of baseball history, and the storied franchise should be put out of it's misery. There is no glory in last place, year after year.The Orioles rank 25th in MLB attendance and are headed South. The only way to get the franchise out of Angelos' ugly grip is to close it down.

Kind of reminds me of the musical, "The Music Man", where they all they sang, "you can bicker, bicker, bicker, and you can talk, talk, talk ...." I was listening to the Cardinals' GM the other day and he admitted to the reporter that there really is much on the market today. If you want to trade Koji or anyone else, who the heck do you think you can get in return? It is not like trading bubble gum cards, you have to get something of value. The young Oriole pitchers had potential, they just didn"t, or haven"t worked out. So, go scout some new young prospects instead of paying big bucks for someone who didn't work out? Do you really think that a team is going to trade away a star for a couple of "good" players? Not likely.

Do you think the Orioles would seriously consider trading Jim Johnson? He is our best pitcher, hands down.

Uehara and Johnson are probably the 2 top rated trade chips on the team right now, but should a team so hungry for good pitching, so void of dependable hurlers, give away any part of such an extremely small core from which to build?
If Johnson becomes a starter, the bullpen immediately becomes much weaker and much less dependable. What's easier to obtain, a reliever as dependable as Johnson or a starter?

Regarding your comment, "I'll leave it to Buck Showalter and Andy MacPhail to decide what to do with Jim Johnson," I can only say I would rather leave it just to Buck Showalter. Andy MacPhail has had three years as the guy who decides what to do and look where we stand. I now think it is time for him to stand up and acknowledge the lack of progress and then stand down. Your thoughts?

Pete,

Unless the Orioles can get significant return--and I mean SIGNIFICANT return (as in major league ready)--then trading someone like Koji or J.J. makes no sense whatsoever, unless the front office doesn't care if it's the 2020s before the O's field a contending team.

Johnson is just coming into his prime and, ironically, could turn out to be the best starter on the team. I'd hate to see him blossom for another team.

As for Uehara, I think he's silenced all but the most stubborn naysayers as far as his durability goes, finally adjusting to the heat and humidity, which was his biggest challenge. His age? Well, I'm of the opinion that he's someone like a Mariano Rivera, who pitches very effectively into his forties, which would give Koji another five years. He's just too good to trade for the first low ball bid that comes along.

It's a real shame that we have to trade away the few good players we have. Some of these guys should be ashamed of themselves for the way they have played this year and that includes the young pitching and on top of that, for them to be shocked when they're sent down to the minors like they have earned some sort of entitlement to be here. Not only are we not a competitive team against the AL East, we're not a competitive major league team and I don't see a quick fix to the problem.

Trade everybody!! The Orioles are still terrible! The pitching has fallen apart, The relievers can't get anybody out! Hardy should have signed with another team! Markakis should get an opportunity to play for a winning team. He needs achange in scenery!
Such tradition, such ineptitude!

As trade dead-line gets closer, it's a sad reminder of yet another season down the drain. Just when will the O's COMPLETE a re-building effort and be a contender? Cleveland, Pittsburgh, TB, and DC seem to be way ahead of our player development. What excuses can the O's front office give to satisfy worn out fans?

Trading our best pitchers Jeremy Guthrie, Koji) when we need to add more depth to them seems to me to be a better plan. Adding a couple of season veterans who can give you 7 or more innings could take some of the pressure off the rookies and give them time to mature.And how about developing them from the bull pen as relievers?

No way you make Johnson a starter again! That is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Either you keep him in his current role or you trade him. He is valuable in those two scenarios -- as a starter he won't last and tax an already week bullpen even further.

Pitching is clearly what the O's need (and have needed). When you go with youth - there are going to be ups and downs (Linecum is the exception). When you are going with 5 youthful starters...you may get what Tampa Bay has, but you may not...

The O's (for next year) need at least 1 more starter - make the young guys earn their spot. They also need a big bopper (1b, LF or DH).

I'm not in favor of trading Koji or JJ. The back end of the bullpen is a strength.

The 2 guys we got for George Sherril have not contributed to the ML club at all. We have every reason to believe that Koji will!

I had so much hope for this season, no aspirations about playoffs, but at least to be competitive and around .500. It is a shame that the rotation regressed so much, because it is clear we really have nothing ready in the entire organization to plug in. So this off season we'll only need about 3 starters, and we all know about the other line up holes. Sigh...

All the trade talk makes no sense for the Orioles.
Uehara is one of the guys that makes our bullpen legitimate. He is like no other reliever in baseball. We need him to stay.
Johnson should also stay in the bullpen.
He may have "starter's stuff" but he doesn't have starter's stamina or durability. This was apparent when he finally had to be DL'ed last year after persistently trying to snap off curves and sliders with a bad elbow for an extended period of time. Johnson belongs where he's at.
I also am and have always been dead against trading Guthrie. Jeremy is a quality pitcher that we'd have a difficult time replacing. I mean we're so desperate for frontline starters that we consider moving Johnson to the rotation.... yet we turn right around and speak of trading Guthrie. It makes no sense.
If we trade anyone, it should be Reimold, Scott, Roberts, Lee, Guerrero, Pie, and/or Andino. These are the guys who have failed to stay healthy and/or hold no hope for the future success of the team. They're done. And as long as the O's keep them, the O's are done.
I like Blake Davis, Ryan Adams, Matt Angle, Joe Mahoney, Josh Bell, and Brandon Snyder. Let's bring up these guys and start spring training early.
I also think Tillman, Matusz, and Britton should all be starting for the Orioles before Atkins, Jackubauskas, or Simon.... or Johnson, for god's sake.

Pete,

Guerrero,Lee, Scott and Gonzalez are all having one of their worst years at the MLB level. They don't have anybody ready to replace Guthrie, Johnson or Koji. So what do they have to trade that will get a quality player that could help the team next year? I'm sure Bergesen's and Tillman's value have dropped. Unless they can get players better than they have right now at Norfolk why trade anybody?

If the team needs pitching -- and it does -- why trade Koji and JJ? The Os won't get more than a mid-level prospect for them, and then they'll be out looking for more pitching in the off season, at a higher price. Unless you get a F Robby for Pappas deal, don't trade away the few good pieces of the puzzle already in place! What is it about the trade deadline that makes GM do silly stuff? There is no law that says you have to make a trade. It's not our job to help somebody else get to the playoffs.

I feel like I have been here before,,,,,,,,,,,,,seems like I have read this story before , are you repeating yourself Peter ?

So exactly how do you improve your pitching by trading away your best pitchers?

Get the feeling that Koji and/or Johnson, if they went, would go for players just barely less than "worthwhile"...wonder if we could package them both to net a new scouting director...

I think I may be losing interest.

Just Tuesday night I caught myself flicking the remote back to the Orioles' game during commercials for Young and Restless re-runs.

Apparetly you people who want to get rid of the good pitchers we have don't mind if we lose more games the second half and don't consider the affect that loosing all the time has on the culture of the young team we have right now. I would keep the good pitchers we have now and see if we do better next half. If you want to rebuild wait till the season is over.

If they renew Mcphail's contract, he should reassess his 'grow the arms, buy the bats' approach. While it seems logical, as few pitchers are willing to sign with the Orioles and face the rest of the AL East, the process isn't ver successful thus far. Ditto for the buying the bats approach. They've only succeeded in buying players who are far past their prime. The only real solution for the O's is to trade heavily. Sell high. Too many times they attach a sentimentality to a player, hold on to him, and watch his trade value plummet. Trade, trade, trade, please. This season is yet again a wash. We're seeing no improvement from years past. Trade Guthrie, Johnson, Uehara, Pie, and even Markakis if he can draw the right offers (though he probably won't since he's earning $10 million a year). the only untouchables, in my opinion, are Jones, Weiters, Arrieta and Britton. I'd even trade Matusz at this point for the right offer. sigh...every year we talk of ways to improve the year, and every year it's the same result.

Trade Koji? WHAT? NO WAY!!! trade a very good dependable pitcher to acquire pitching? That absolutely makes no sense. He has been one of the few bright spots among a bunch of disappointing pitching arms we have. I feel the same way about JJ. Trade Gregg if you want to trade someone and move Koji back to closer. That way I don't have a heart attack when we come to a save situation. We have the young arms. They have to develop and the need to be patient with them is now. This is not a quick fix here, it will take time for these kids to grow up and learn to pitch vs. throwing. That includes Weiters too.

No more Steve johnsons (no offense, pops!). Or Josh Bells, Or Whas-His Name VanderHurk (sp?), etc, etc, etc. I simply see no point in making such a swap.

If we cannot get a guy in return who is going to help the big league club enough to make us better, then I'd rather have Koji and Guts.

In my opinion, the O's should keep both Koji and JJ. They have been our only dependable relievers and as Pete mentioned, we are short on pitching so why even consider trading them?
I know the rationale is that we make these type of moves to add prospects etc but that approach hasn't worked before. What ends up happening is that other teams fleece us and we end up with virtually nothing and worse off than before.
When will the O's upper brass understand that you don't make trades that create more holes. It's not as if we have a bunch of MLB ready relievers in the minors and with our starters only able to go 5 or 6 innings, we need arms that can finish.
I'm not opposed to trading guys like Vlad/Lee etc because surely we can find someone to put up comparable/mediocre numbers at a fraction of the cost. I don't think we'll get much in return but as the saying goes-addition by subraction. We shed 16 mill in the process and maybe we finally get a bona-fide slugger like Fielder(one can dream!)

SI is reporting that the Yankees are the only takers for Guthrie. Even if they weren't in our division, the Yankees appear to be pretty stingey when it comes to what they're willing to give up. So I guess that one is a non-starter.

I like the idea of JJ working into the rotation from the Bullpen - that's the way it used to be and SHOULD BE DONE.

How many decades do we have to go with out developing a quality starting pitcher (sans maybe Bedard) before we get back to this system of player development?

Why sign all these ridiculous middle reliever contracts (Gonzo, Greg, you can go back for years really) when our bullpen can be Tillman, Matusz, Britton etc (cheap)?

Did we really draft Billy Rowell instead of Tim Lincecum? Did we really pass over Mike Trout? Who is making these decisions?

Can we trade MacPhail? A PTBNL or future considerations from any of the other 29 teams would be enough of a return for me.

Has anyone noticed how good our A and AA teams are doing lately? They are tearing it up and many of the prospects are playing really well. There are a lot of reasons to be hopeful about the future.

The O's are wacko if they trade Koji, slipping further and further down the ladder.

Smitty,

Mny scouts have said their may not be even one position player at AA or AAA who may play at the major league level. Well maybe one....

Team records mean nothing at the A and AA levels smitty. Everyone knows that. Even if they did, it's ridiculous to be optimistic about A's until you see them further down the line. And this is what you're grasping at? Seems to be you're always excited about the dream of the future. Seems to me, you're dreams have always failed you. They're are dreamers and doers smitty..... But hey....maybe you're right. Maybe we will be good by 2017.. We can hope/dream

Hey Don I, who is Hupp? And what exactly has Sherrill, Tejada and Conine done since they were let go by the O's? Thank God you're not the GM.

_____________

deputy dog, what exactly is your whine? On one hand you whine about the O's getting nothing but a career "monor" (sic) leaguer, and on the other hand you criticize the Rangers for trading away a 25 year old pitcher for a "washed up utility player." Who made that trade dog? Last I check it was MacPhail. So you whine about the o's always getting washed up players and you bash the Rangers for the same thing in their trade with MacPhail who got a 25 year old arm for the washed up player. Make sense will you?