Luke Scott would be the best suited...against RHP. Power, patience, vet. But Luke after Nick means a line-up of almost all RH bats throughout the rest of the order. It'd make it too easy for match-ups.

Adam Jones is solid at 3 too. His AB's are improving, his contact, his situational hitting, and pitch recognition are also improving. But I fear once he gets in the 3 spot he's "determined" to make something happen, and all the progress he has been making goes up in flames. Buck's "taking the emotion out of AB's" seems to be taking hold...I think it might be too soon to let Adam hit 3rd.

Matt Wieters could bat 3rd. The switch at the #3 spot is solid and Wieters has been hot with the RISP thing. His AB's, much like Adam Jones, are improving. Solid contact, and fewer swings at bad pitches. But I like the lack of pressure and the results so far are good. If it ain't broke....

Nick Markakis in the 3 hole has been done before....and Nick held his own. Even last year...his down year, he ended up with 161 games played and a top Avg w/ RISP for the whole of Baseball. He's the vet, a professional batter, and if it weren't for the past 40 days, he'd be penciled in the #3 without much hesitation.

Vlad could hit 3rd, ending his string of lead-off hitting 2nd innings...but he wants to hit clean up. I don't hate him hitting 3rd, but it's not great either.

I vote Nick. Not because I'm Andy's 3rd removed cousin or because I stalk Nick every day, but because he has a proven track record, in the AL East as a #3 hitter, and is the most polished batter in the line-up. (okay, maybe Vlad...but is Vlad really "polished" or is it he's really "effective"....)

So with Nick in the 3rd spot, it's back to who hits 2nd. I'll go with JJ Hardy.

Roberts -- S
Hardy -- R
Markakis - L
Vlad -- R
Scott -- L
Jones -- R
Wieters -- S
Snyder -- R
Reynolds - R

smitty,

Thanks for finally admitting your true feelings my friend. Now you're saying that AM's house is only 1/2 way built.

Using your logic smit, AM's efforts will bear fruit in year 8..... as in EIGHT.

But hey, at least you're giving a time table. Something AM has not and will never do.

Guys,

I think I made one post since the debacle last evening. In fact, I thought the game was in the bag at one point.

I'm never the kind to rub salt into AM's mess.....

But again........ please look at the pen AM has assembled. Overall, it's another complete failure. A failure beyond belief in fact.

How could ANYONE be surprised that this pen gave up a big lead in Fenway Park? Meso, what did you say the Sox record was when they were behind in the 8th, 9th, etc?

Between AM and his 'guys', this team has the worst talent evaluators in the game. When will you guys see that?

Have any of you studied the LIST Agent Orange put up since AM has arrived in Baltimore?

Not only is the list embarrassing..... it embarrasses the word embarrassment.

No guys,

I do NOT like it when the team blows games like they did last night. Literally, I imagine what it must be like for posters like smitty, paulie, dan qz, jc, etc, when games like that fall apart.

I can see and feel their pain... their agony.

I don't want that...

But again.... winning or losing doesn't matter guys, because as smitty put forth is true...... AM's only half way through his rebuilding process.

So relax, sit back, and enjoy the next four years of horrid baseball as best you can.

Three cheers for 2015

Hip Hip H........ ray.......
Hip Hip H.........ray.......
Hip Hip H.........ray.......

Let's solve this mathematically:

Nr 3 spot = clutch hitter
Weiters = clutch hitter

Therefore, in concordance with the transitive property of equality, Nr 3 spot = Weiters.

Wayne,

Nice zinger. Yeah the Redsox numbers when they trail were not promising. I believed the O's could do it. I'm sure I was in the minority. The Redsox had the biggest comeback in their history ( I heard on the radio). Of course, playing the Baltimore O's is where dreams become reality.Two Rays rookies hit their first home runs in a span of 2 series against the O's. The Rangers beat us 30-3. Bruce Chen looked like Cy Young. What are you telling me? It's like shooting fish in a bucket.

I have ZERO sympathy for him, but I think MacPhail is the shield of blame for Peter F. Angelos. Remember when Buck said that anyone could win with money, taking a shot at Epstein? Now, I'm starting to read between the lines and thinking, that could be a zinger at the crusty old man in that Warehouse suite.

Meso,

I absolutely agree about PA. No one anywhere could ever pardon him for being the worst owner any Baltimore team has had (including Irsay).

In fact, I would rather PA (like Irsay) pick up and leave so that we can start over with new ownership. That's right, I would rather not having a team for a couple years, get an expansion team, and start over with anyone else....

Literally, that's the best/only chance Oriole fans will ever have to root for a true contender again.

That said.......

AM simply can no longer be excused for selecting the worst crop of FA's year after year. The man (and his team) have zero eye for talent (see what Chitown use to say about him in this department).

Agent Orange's list spells it out much better than I ever could.

I'm glad that all wayne's posts are similar...that way I can just read the first line and save myself the rest of his antagonistic drivel

I am just as disgusted with the bullpen as anyone and everyone else. They have just been way too shakey all year. I don't know the answer, but obviously it is not as simple as getting rid of one or two pitchers.

However, I just want to point out that, although Tillman put in a good effort, in reality it wasn't good enough. We need six innings out of every starter, better 6 giving up a few runs than just 5 giving up none it seems.

Well G2, allegedly it wasn't Tillman's decision. Allegedly, Tillman hurt his back. Then yesterday, allegedly Tillman had a miracle cure, because he got his lifting and running for the day. Finally, Tillman allegedly ran into Peter Schmuck at the Dunkin Donuts during his afternoon jog and told Peter S that he felt much better. While I am quite certain that Tillman did speak to Peter S about his back, I am not certain that he chit chatted with him in the parking lot of Dunkin Donuts. Sorry, Peter S! I read the blog at the Insider and could not resist.
If it makes you feel any better I have a donut yesterday myself, someone from where I work brought them. Anyway....

In all seriousness though, the bullpen smells! I could see where the Orioles could release Gonzalez. However, I can't see how in the world they could release Gregg. I wish they could! In reality though what makes you think Angelos and MacPhail are going to eat that contract!!!!!!!!! They can't and they won't.

PS I see Liriano pitched a heckuva ballgame last night, outdueled King Felix! Ahhh, I wish the Orioles could do something herem but I think that's a lot of wishful thinking on my part. I hear Kevin Millwood is still available lol =P

Christopher,

Thanks for being glad that all my post are similar...that way you can just read the first line and save yourself the rest of my antagonistic drivel.

1.roberts, 2, s
2.markakis, 9, l
3.jones, 8, r
4.vlad, dh, r
5.wieters, 2, s
6.scott, 3, l
7.hardy, 6, r
8. pie, 7, l
9. reynolds, 5, r

Someone on the previous blog page (and I'm not looking up who because I don't care) mentioned it not being fair to criticize someone building a house when it's only half done.

Huh?

It's plenty fair when one looks at the half-done house. When we had an extension built onto our house, most of our b****ing and complaining came when things were half-done because they were already half-***.

Okay, let's compare 2007 to 2011.

Pawtucket (Boston)
Winning Percentage ... .472 to .595
Batting Average ... .254 to .251
On-Base Plus Slugging ... .718 to .747
Earned Run Average ... 4.05 to 3.46
Their hitters/pitchers are 1.5/1.4 years younger than the roster at Norfolk

Scranton-WB (New York Yankees)
WP ... .587 to .595
BA ... .263 to .260
OPS ... .737 to .741
ERA ... 3.64 to 3.59
Their h/p are younger than in '07 and 0.8/2.5 younger than Norfolk

Durham (Tampa Bay)
WP ... .559 to .579
BA ... .262 to .265
OPS ... .749 to .730
ERA ... 3.59 to 3.61
Their pitchers 2.3 years younger than Norfolk.

Syracuse/Las Vegas (Toronto)
WP ... .444 to .550
Given the nature of the two respective leagues Syracuse belonged to in 2007 and Las Vegas is now in, all offensive stats are understandably up and pitching stats are worse.

Norfolk (Baltimore)
WP ... .483 to .359
BA ... .261 to .238
OPS ... .702 to .672
ERA ... 3.81 to 4.62

Conclusion:

With all of the growing of the arms, Norfolk has one of the oldest (if not thee oldest) AAA staffs. It is the oldest from the teams of the AL East, and Scranton even has Millwood. The ERA is 0.81 worse than in '07 while the average age has gotten 1.8 years older

While the average age of the hitters at Norfolk is middle of the pack, production has dropped. The BA has gone down .023 and the OPS has dropped .030. Pawtucket and Scranton has seen only a 3-point drop in BA comparing four years ago, but both have a higher OPS.

Durham's 2007 and 2011 stats are fairly similar. Their ERA is barely worse than Pawtucket but a full run better than Norfolk.

Building a team through the farm system only has to take ten years minimum. And that's if you are able to produce two or three major leaguers every year, and they stay with your team uninjured throughout everything. If that is your one-trick pony, certainly something of note should be at AAA.

Your AAA affiliate should not be older, worse offensively and defensively, and worse than your competition by a greater margin than before.

Maybe -- perhaps even likely -- Angelos is stepping onto any worthwhile endeavor into free agency, although as pointed out above, MacPhail seems quite comfortable on bidding on leftover scraps. As anyone who has followed my posts, I have expressed concerns with the one-prong approach but I think I have exhibited much patience with that approach. I have acknowledged credit to MacPhail for identitfying and keeping a few of the better players he didn't actually draft but are still here.

With Bowie treading water at 19-19 and with only one player batting over .270, the calvary is not just around the corner. It's not two years away. It's just not happening.

I'm sure some might look at Frederick and Delmarva, and take comfort in their records at this point. However at that rate, some of those players will be part of the sprinkling of talent on some 2014 Orioles team.

I just don't see how anyone can give MacPhail a higher grade than the C-minus I must now give him.

But waspan,

smitty finally let us in on the secret...... he said what all apologist believe.....

That it's really about 2015, or AM's 8 year plan.

SOOOOOOOO ------ EVERYBODY SING...........

'f you're happy with the Plan Clap Your Hands

If you're happy with the Plan Clap Your Hands

If you're happy with MacPhail and his losings never stale

If you're happy with the Plan Clap Your Hands

:-)

Someone recently mentioned the Rays and Giants as reasons why you don't necessarily need to spend on free agents.

That same person mentioned the White Sox and Mets as reasons why spending on free agents doesn't always work.

Let's take the Rays

Now, let's look at the Giants: As soon as the O's rotation is as good as Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Jonathan Sanchez and Madison Bumgarner were in 2010, they don't need to spend on free agents. As soon as the O's crapshoot, bargain bin free agents pan out as well as Aubrey Huff, Pat Burrell and Cody Ross did for the Giants in 2010, they don't need to spend on free agents. (Well, actually, that wouldn't be a good reason. Look how terrible those three have been this season.) As soon as the O's bring up a rookie hitter who's as good as Buster Posey, they don't need to spend on free agents.

Sorry about all the bold there.

This comment system always seems to do goofy things with HTML tags.

Including cutting what I wrote about the Rays:

As soon as the O's draft and develop two players as good as Evan Longoria and Carl Crawford, they don't need to spend on free agents. As soon as a 35+ home run hitting first baseman like Carlos Peña falls into our laps, the O's don't need to spend on free agents.

@Waspman

If Andy Macphail did these 3 things

Got Fransisco Liriano

Got Lou Marson

Traded Kevin Gregg for Joaquin Benoit
I know that sounds like a peg for a peg and it is, but so be it.

I would give Andy MacPhail an A++

Well said NB!

If you can't afford to get top notch free agents, develop superstars from your farm system and make them All-Stars, e.g Longoria, Pryce, Posey (you mention) and others.

But for the love of God, do something. You can't just sit there and tell your fan base we can't compete with the Yankees and the Redsox, when you've got Tampa that is not only competing, but beating the crap out of them.

I don't care how you win, just freaking win. If you can't get it done, move the expletive over and just let someone else who can see this franchise as more than just an income source. Stop torturing the fan base.

Gil,

You always say that Peter Angelos is a philanthropist. The single biggest philanthropic thing he can do is to sell the team. Period.

Squirrel,

Feeling a little generous today? A++?! The only time I'd give a GM A++ is when the each "+" means a World Series title.

Hardy is the hottest hitter on the team. Move him to number 3 so that Nick will get more fastballs. Get as much out of Hardy as we can because his next trip to the DL may be right around the corner. Wieters at number 3 would only clog up the bases and he might try to do too much. Bat Scott, then Jones behind Guerrero. Play Pie in left more.

Keith Law and Ken Rosenthal have both pointed out the weakness in the Oriole approach to strengthening the farm system as a feeder line and the lack of investment in International Scouting especially Latin America. I'm not sure that the Orioles have actual full time boots on the ground down there today. Law went on to say that he is puzzled by Macphail's approach so far.

As far as grading Macphail so far, if I were doing his annual review he would get a "Fails to meet the requirements for the position." and would be on probation. He inherited an organizational mess and overall, has done little to improve the viability of the franchise. His nephew is in charge of scouting. That shows that he does not have an open mind as far as bringing someone into the organization with a fresh approach. It's the good old white boy front office Enough said.

But Meso,

He does have two WS titles........

It may have been prior to the internet. It may have been just when execs were truly figuring out Free Agency. It may have been during a completely different time in MLB..... But he has 2 rings.

Therefor, I have no problem giving him an Oriole grade with the ++ attached.

In other words, the man deserves a...

F++

After all.... He does deserve his due..........

If Andy MacPhail had a different last name he'd be flipping burgers today.

'his nephew is in charge of scouting'

This isn't talked about enough Gil. Scouting is very far ranging and to compete with a lessor budget than the Yanks and Sox, this is possibly the most crucial department in the organization.

Yet, no one really studies the list that Agent Orange put out there for all to see.

Why would the Baltimore media NOT scrutinize the O's scouting? Why does it take national writers to do it for them?

Who ever becomes accountable for the Eatons, Hills and Atkins of the world? I mean look at the dreadful list.

They don't even get lucky Gil. The best they can hope for is that a player like Hardy will come through... but even then, the likely hood he'll play 100 games is deeply in question.

'HIS NEPHEW IS IN CHARGE OF SCOUTING'

Who at the INSIDER will EVER have the Bxlls to bring this subject up?

Let me repeat.........

WHO AT THE INSIDER WILL EVER HAVE THE BXLLS TO BRING THIS SUBJECT UP?

@Meso

You got me to laugh.
Yes, A++ maybe a bit generous still..

Benoit and Gregg have similar contracts
Goose aka Connor was Benoit's pitching coach when he was with Texas so he's familiar with him. I can't think of one O's fan that posts around here that wanted Gregg in the first place. Plus, the fact Benoit just lost his job. That's why it could be an interesting trade.

Yeah and if Andy Mac got Liriano and Marson. It would give us a #1 pitcher and Marson would offer some flexibility with our catcher situation.

If Andy Mac does nothing, then obviously Waspman's assessment of C- is more accurate.

Come on Andy Mac, you gotta do something!

Who did McFail get in free agency?
Gregg - doing good
Vlad - not performing up to par
Reynolds - wow very close to being a complete bust / out of baseball
Hardy - Very good Andy, you got this one right.
Isturiz - why? he is taking up space and now on dl
Lee - Vlad and he must share notes/dl
2/6 not very good Andy

@ Matty

What planet r u from?

It's a strange time to be an Oriole fan.

As much as I want my team to win, I do not want this GM to be extended, which will happen if the team puts up a .500ish record.

I can already see how this offseason is going to play out if Andy MacPhail is still our GM:

After Prince Fielder signs with the Angels: "We didn't need Prince Fielder. Brandon Snyder had a good year at AAA, so we might as well give him a shot. Fielder was too expensive anyway and why would he want to play here?"

When it comes down to it, regardless of how this team finishes, Fielder and Jose Reyes should be their top two targets. Does anyone have any real confidence that Andy MacPhail will sign either of those two?

PS - Here's my preemptive strike on the "Who would you hire as GM?" question:

- David Forst, A's Assistant GM
- Kim Ng, Dodgers Assistant GM
- Logan White, Dodgers Assistant GM, Head of Scouting
- Al Avila, Tigers Assistant GM
- Bill Geivett, Rockies Assistant GM
- Damon Oppenheimer, Yankees VP of Amateur Scouting
- Paul DePodesta, Mets VP of Player Development and Scouting
- Dan Jennings, Marlins Assistant GM
- Thad Levine, Rangers Assistant GM

I can say, without a doubt, that each of those candidates would bring a fresh approach to this team. Each of them would ramp up US and international scouting. Each of them would have the stones to spend big on marquee free agents (Ng's stones are figurative, of course).

And while none of those candidates can claim that they were the General Manager of a World Series winning team, Avila, Geivett, Oppenheimer and Levine can each claim that they played an integral role in building teams that played in the World Series. And Forst, Ng and White were each part of building teams that played in the playoffs.

How many teams has Andy MacPhail sent to the World Series in the past 19 years? How many teams has he even sent to the playoffs in that time?

Of course, all of this leads us to the million dollar question: Would Peter Angelos ever hire any of those candidates and give them full reign over every aspect of baseball operations? I doubt it.

And now we're back to the drawing board... (And I'm arguing about MacPhail again. It's a sickness...)

not brooks,

The issue was raised by Meso about the free agent signings. (including Halladay and A-Gon, who were not free agents...but anyway...)

The Rays and Giants have NOT spent on big free agents like Tex, or Holliday, or Bay, or Werth, or Crawford, or Miguel Tejada (had to throw Miggy in there since it's funny in 2 different ways in this conversation).

Let me understand this, the root of your argument is that the Giants didn't spend money on FA's because they knew how good Posey was going to be? They knew he was ROY bound with MVP #'s along the way?

As for the "every one gets a dude" comment look at the Mets. Beltran, Reyes, Wright, Santana, Bay, and Perez....none of those guys have performed to the money they were given. The Met's are paralyzed by bad contracts. And that's a better model to follow than the Rays, which Andy is trying to emulate?

I LOVE the fact that Andy won't saddle this organization with awful contracts.

Remember last year spring training? The Mariners were heavy favorites because they got Cliff Lee and Chone Figgins. Didn't work.

The Card's got Holliday and were favorites. But the Reds took the division with what Free Agents?

The debate is over type A free agents. But let's not fool ourselves into looking at things with a 20-20 hindsight and say it was obvious. Posey was not obvious nor Madison Bumgarner.

Type A free agents do not guarantee ANYTHING. It's a multi million dollar gamble. It works plenty of times, but it's also back fired plenty too. For every FA that worked out, I can name one that didn't.

The most important question is are the Orioles the type of organization that can take on Dice-K/Barry Zito contracts and win without performances from them?

I'll go with hell no.

Now that doesn't mean the every free agent is a bad deal. Albert...here's a blank check. Tex, him too. But Bay, and Werth...thubbbttttt.

As to the "develop the super star" thing, as far as I can tell, the O's do have a few guys that might very well be such. Adam Jones, Matt Weiters, Zach Britton, Jake Arrieta, and of course Brian Matusz.

As Buck has said "never over look an Orchid when looking for a Rose." and "Don't covet they neighbors players".

The season is still early, the O's have been erratic but are 4 games out in the middle of May. Are you not entertained?

Again, a .500 Orioles team means (with the Unbalanced schedule) that other teams in the AL East aren't going to be taking a hit too. The O's can't get better along with everyone else in the division. If the O's are better, and they are, then the rest of the division becomes more open. Simple mathematics. Increases in Orioles victories means a decrease of Yankees, Rays, Jays, and Sawx victories.

"Would Peter Angelos ever hire any of those candidates?"

That's the problem here guys. the problem is NOT AM - it's PA. Until we have an owner who's committed to WINNING which will lead to PROFITS, we have an owner who's committed to PROFITS and WINNING is secondary. It's that simple.

Not Brooks - well said, although I think you wasted too much thought identifying GMs that we'll never see.

hey wayne,

Here's a link that might explain why Peter Schmuck is handling the "nuts and bolts" these days:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/baltimoresun/obituary.aspx?n=ann-m-connolly&pid=151126889&fhid=8351

Have some respect for the bereaved before you trot out your ridiculous conspiracy theories.

I did a search on "Andy MacPhail's nephew", Lee MacPhail IV, and was directed to a Baltimore Sun message board thread from 2009.

I found there that MacPhail the nephew was fired from his post as Director of Amateur Scouting only to be rehired as Director of Professional Scouting when Andy was hired as GM. MacPhail IV was also fired from scouting posts by the Indians and Nationals. Nice!

Gotta love that old school nepotism, right!?

I also went through a time machine of thoughts about Andy, and really had to laugh about this one, posted by someone going by the moniker DFA on November 29th, 2011: "The Orioles solution from about 2001 to 2007 was to put bandaids on gaping wounds. Bad free agent signings forced by an arid farm system, which was largely ignored anyhow, just created a dangerous spiral."

"Bandaids on gaping wounds" could be applied to any and all of the free agents that MacPhail has acquired in his time here.

"Arid farm system, which was largely ignored"? Yup. We've still got that too!

Isn't it just sad that this "dangerous spiral" is still spinning a year and a half later?

Paulie,

I believe I used the word trade as well. Let's not have "selective memory".

If I understand you correctly, you're just gun shy. You're about, what if I spent all this money and it doesn't work out? If you believe in your ability to rebound from failures and have a solid plan for success, you're not worried about bumps on the road.

Failures are not the problem. Not trying is the problem. You just hope that you try your best and your successes outweigh your failures when it's said and done. But as I said before: do something. Win! I don't care how you do it.

My point, which I probably didn't make too clearly, was that you can't simply follow to a T the models of teams that pretty much just got lucky.

I am entertained by this season, paulie. And that's where this is coming from. I see a nice core developing: Markakis, Wieters, Jones, Britton, Arrieta, and, hopefully upon his return, Matusz.

And I don't want to see that core wasted. There's no Evan Longoria in there. There's no Mark Teixeira. There's no Adrian Gonzalez. There's no Jose Bautista. So this team needs to do something to get one of those marquee players that puts every team over the hump. And I just have no faith in Andy MacPhail to do so.

But let me get back to the Giants. They got into the playoffs with 92 wins, playing 18 games each against the Rockies, Dodgers, Padres and Diamondbacks. Do you think they would have won even 85 games playing 18 games each against the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Blue Jays last season? Heck, even 92 wins would have only been good enough for third place in the AL East last year. And in 2009, 2008 and 2007. And in 2006, 92 wins would have been good enough for Wild Card runner up in the AL. The last time 92 wins would have put an AL team in the playoffs was 2000.

I'm sorry, paulie. I'm just tired of the "this team did it this way, so we can too" argument. If you can use that argument, why not use the 2006 Cardinals? "Let's just win 83 regular season games and we can get to the World Series!" There's no formula to winning in this game. Especially with the disparity from division to division. And that's why you have to do everything to give your team the best shot. This front office just doesn't do that, plain and simple.

It's raining in Baltimore

Does anyone think the O's game will be played tonight?

And Brooks don't forget Mike Arbuckle, he would be a fine choice as well!

To be honest, if Andy does his job and he cleans up his own mess that he made, I would be OK if we kept him.

If he does nothing, then change is in order

Pitching is the foundation. If the pitching is good, the O's will be good.

Britton, Arrieta, Matusz and Guthrie have more potential than the O's have had in a long time.

They all still have a lot to prove, but this group feels different to me in a good way. I am also not ready to give up on Bergeson and Tillman.

And yes, right now, the bullpen is a mess.

Things change, they always do. It is the middle of May. I would like to see the performance of the O's improve as the season moves along.

Go O's

Waspman deserves some credit for keeping his eye on the ball since Macphail was hired and Pete's blog began. If you go back in the history you will find one consistent them from him...."let's build through the fram system. Let's improve scouting FA's are nice but there needs to be a steady stream of talent behind them." Many of clamored for both...FA's and an improved farm system, and better scouting.

Waspman's comments have evolved over time from, and I paraphrase "I'm in, if it takes time lets build through the farm system", to "We need to get started on the farm system" to "When are we going to get started rebuilding the farm system?" to "The farm system still stinks and there is no help in sight." I pay attention to every poster's themes and comments and he has been one of the most patient and pragmatic posters on the board.

Frankly, I was not aware of how poor our investment in scouting, particularly Latin America was until experts outside Baltimore began pointing it out. After four years of Andy Macphail I am reminded of an old Peggy Lee song.....

''Is that all there is?"
"Is that all there is?"
"If that's all there is my friend,"
"let's start dancing,"
'We'll break out the booze and have a ball'
"If that's all there is."

Squirrel,

If you were the owner and your goal was to win, would was brought to bring change but brought more of the same? You'd give that guy a second chance after 4 years of more of the same?! Think hard about it. Afterall, you're paying this guy.

Sorry, my fingers didn't carry out what my brain was thinking there. Was supposed to go like this:

Squirrel,

If you were the owner and your goal was to win, would you re-sign a GM who was brought to bring change but brought more of the same? You'd give that guy a second chance after 4 years of more of the same?! Think hard about it. Afterall, you're paying this guy.

GUYS.........

AM is only HALF done...

The house is only HALF built.....

Didn't you hear?

FEATURING the O's new tagline/promo

'GET WIT DA SCENE.... ON WAY TO 2015'

Mark Teixeira spoke to the Baltimore Sun's Luke Broadwater about the team's interest back in '08: "Of the five offers I received, the Orioles were by far the lowest offer and I don't know if they were ever that serious about signing me. We had one meeting and that was it. I'm not sure if they were ever very interested." Digging through the MLBTR archives, I think the Orioles topped out at seven years, $140MM. Teixeira added that he expects to finish his career as a Yankee.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/05/gammons-on-red-sox-catchers-posada.html

Well, that pretty much sums it up.

It also legitimizes the assumption that AM made a move "just to satisfy the fan base". There is no other way to spin it: the Orioles were never serious about Mark Teixeira.

Now if it would only come straight from the horses mouth (you know who), or even be acknowlegded by....ahem.... the Baltimore sports media.

As I have said over and over, Robert's injury status must always be considered "day to day."

As I have said over and over...

Why do you need to say that every time you post something? Do you need that much validation in your life?

well, it looks like the right side of the infield could be out for a bit. Let's hope that the infielders are on their best throwing behaviour.
Nothing to do but roll out the baseball and see what happens.

jim66,

Of the oft injured players acquired by Andy and those already on the team, it seems they are becoming oft injured again. Who didn't see this coming?

as any seasoned coach at whatever level might say..gotta play the game and not worry about the guys that aren't here

Go Os!!

Mes,

Your right, you did mention trades...but I think we all know the minor leagues are not "full enough" to make trades for A-Gon's of Roy Halladays. Aside from that, the players themselves had to "okay" the deals, so other than lack of "currency" for such deals there is also a lack of "credibility". I know it chafes your butt, but, if you were A-Gon and could choose from the O's and Sawx....why would you pick the O's??

I'm not "gun shy". Rather, Risk vs. Reward plays into the thinking.

Any guy 31 or older should not be getting 8-10 year deals, but that's what the market has been dictating lately. That's just crazy.

I've made a big big stink time and again that the ONLY players worth full market value these days are the A++ types. Tex yes, Albert yes...but Werth and Bay...hell no. Even Crawford I think is a bit over paid for the production he's likely to produce over the length of the contract.

Not gun shy. Just very selective.

(btw, I was ALL ABOUT V-Mart this past off-season. Andy's offer was just right...but having to "overpay" for his services would have been daft).

There's a fine line between selectivity and never taking a risk, paulie.

Andy doesn't even come close to skating that line. He stays well to the conservative side of it. Andy's biggest free agent contract went to Todd Hundley for four years and $23MM. I can't speak to his tenure with the Cubs, but since he's been the O's GM, he's never made a competitive offer to a top flight free agent.

Once again, if you're making savvy trades (he can only live off the Bedard trade for so long) and signing international free agents, you can get away with balking at the free agent market every year. But Andy MacPhail doesn't do either of those things.

As waspman says, Andy uses a one-pronged approach. And in this game, and especially in this division, that doesn't work.

PS - Martinez went to the Tigers for $2MM more than what the O's offered. That offer was "just right"? Seriously? You wouldn't have offered another $5MM to a player you were "ALL ABOUT" to see if that would tempt him?

Andino's laziness cost britton a run.
That's how you lose 90 games.

Meso,

"If you were the owner and your goal was to win.."

You really believe that PA wants to win? I thought better of you...

PeteyPablo,

Yea .. that was a slip-up. Impaired judgement, another side effect of hunger.

Dave in Glen Burnie,

Excellent find! Kudos! That is the smoking gun, but we knew that. He just put an end to any warehouser speculation.

Hear that warehousers? "He didn't want to come here" is not part of the canned responses anymore. Time to invent a new one.

The lowest offer, from the hometown team?! Is that what MacPhail calls the hometown discount? Angelos and MacPhail are a disgrace. Shame on them!

Let's see how the warehouse spin crew will try to be on their best damage control form. I suspect the MacMemo has already been sent out, and the operatives are standing by to execute the Warehouse directives.

@Meso,

What would you like me to be the GM or the Owner? How long do you think my tenure would last either way? The One would never happen, me being owner. I probable could only afford one brick of Camden Yards. =P As for GM LOL, I think a riot would break out to say the least.
Like I said if Andy Mac gets or at least tries to get
Liriano
Marson
Benoit
I would be satisified in all seriosness.

@ jim66,,,, your kinda tough on Andino
Although, I wish Andino had a better at bat against Colon.

The whole line up seems mesmerized by him. Shame JJ Hardy had that line drive double play.

"Thanks for letting us know that Halladay did in fact want to come here. Boy, we got that straight. How bout Tex? Did he want to also?

Posted by: smitty | May 17, 2011 10:38 PM "

Funny you should ask Smitty. You really want the answer? This is your lucky day. I have the answer right here:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bthesite/bal-teixeira-ill-always-love-baltimore-20110518,0,7778984.story

But to spare you some time, because I know you have to get back to your warehouse duties: Tex said:

"Of the five offers I received, the Orioles were by far the lowest offer and I don't know if they were ever that serious about signing me. We had one meeting and that was it. I'm not sure if they were ever very interested."

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Could you point out the part where he said he wanted to sign with the O's. I read the whole thing and I didn't see that. My understanding has always been that Scott Boras told them that Tex didn't want to play them off other teams, so not to make another offer. I guess you're going to believe whatever places the O's in the worst litht, and that is your right, but presenting this article as some kind of proof is really ridiculous. If I recall, Tex said when he signed with the Yankees that he had always been a Yankee fan. Was he lying then?

Draft speculation anyone?

A Bat?
An Arm?

Anyone up on this enough to have a top 3 "should be picked by the O's" list.

(and yes, I do know that every AL East team has like 5 1st rounders to the O's singular 1st rounder....sigh).

Tough?Andino got a well-deserved error on that play because he should have caught that ball. You have to catch that ball, no excuses.

Pretty typical game tonite. Nice job by the starter. The world's worst offense can't get an important hit.
They on track for what, 675 runs?
That'll get you nowhere.
How does a team that swings at everything ever strike out looking?

not brooks,

I would have one approach. Andy has his. Meso would have another entirely.

As far as V-Mart goes, I think the 4 country men of his on the Tigers, plus more regular catching duties, and the Tigers being a more competitive club over the past decade made more of the decision for V-Mart than couple million difference. I know it's crazy to think that players might factor in more than one thing when signing long term deals. Money is "A" factor.

Do you think any Free Agent is coming to Baltimore for less than a Jayson Werth type deal? Honestly, anyone coming to Baltimore is going to have to get Above market value. Is that a good way to sign free agents? Is that being a good GM...raising the Market Values of all players in the Free Agent pool?

jim66,

"How does a team that swings at everything ever strike out looking?"

Great observation/question. I watch these games puzzled by the same thing. Once in a while a guy might do that, but you right....the team seems to do that a bunch. Is there a sign coming in from the dug-out? "Take the strike, and look baffled" sign?

Something's got to give sometime, paulie.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. How has the MacPhail Era been any different than the Beattie/Flanagan or Thrift Era?

Being a good GM means doing the best thing for your team. If there's a player out there who would help this team take steps toward winning the division, and the only way to get him is to overpay, then maybe overpaying to get that guy is a good thing.

Ugly game tonight... Though it was fun to watch Jones throw Rodriguez out at second. What in the world was Old-Rod thinking? He was out by 30 feet!

And congrats to Gregg on getting right back in the saddle. 13 pitches, 11 strikes, 2 strikeouts, no walks. Why couldn't he do that on Monday night?

I'm calling Mo vs. Pie a reverse lock. Pie hits a home run to tie it.

Adam Jones just gets better every day. That was a real good at bat against Mariano- took a tough pitch into center.

Close enough nb. Koji is a winner and he'll get one tonite! Go O's

Adam, Nick, Vlad. Your #2, 3, and 4 hitters lady's and gentlemen.

The thunder and lighting in MoCo has been fierce. This game might end very soon regardless of the score.

Matt Wieters with the walk off?? In the pouring rain...taking out a light, cue The Natural theme?

'so many people on thi's blog don't know how to make word's plural...or maybe it's ju'st one per'son po'sting under many different name's.

Paulie,

C'mon man. I know you're trying to be the devil's advocate. But really, as I said before, do something, try to build something resembling a winner.

Overpay? Oh hell yeah! There is a tax for sucking. How do you think Texeira is going to come here if you offer him less than 4 other teams did?! For real. You should outbid everybody but the Yankees for a player like that, who could have been the cornerstone for over a decade.

Personally, I think baseball is becoming a young man's game.
Which means scouting / drafting / international presense becomes all the more important.
Which means the Orioles better change their stripes. Our drafting / scouting has been awful for a looooong time. nad it has not gotten any better over the past 4 years, as far as I can tell.

Cue the JJ fan club, that was a great inning. Please can we finish this off

not brooks,

I'm not sure I'm following the repeating the same thing over and over thing. If anything, Andy is NOT repeating the same things other GM's did as far as Free Agents are concerned. No signing of MVP Short Stops, no $50 million dollar bull pens, and lots of "projects". That's not news, but that is different and not a repetition of the previous strategies.

Additionally, do you really think any singular Free Agent of the past 3 years could turn the O's into play-off team during Andy's tenure? Tex?

It's not a "buy one guy" fix and I think you know that.

Paulie,

You're right. It's not by one guy. But it's a start. You "buy" Tex and then all of a sudden the good "second tier" free agents would want to come here.

Didn't your parents ever teach you that not trying is worse than failing?

Mes,

You are partially right in the devil's advocate comment. Personally, I would pay top dollar's for the Tex, Pujols, and Mauers of the world. But that's me, and I'm not a GM.

However, not over-paying as Andy does, in not "bad" either. Remember the 29 other GM's in baseball all HATED the Werth signing because it just jumped the prices for every other free agent. Overpaying is great for agents, but bad for baseball.

I think the effects of developing young talent that begins to compete will drive down the "suck tax".

Besides, aren't you one of the "Nick is over-paid" types? (you might not be, I honestly can't recall) But if you think Nick is over-paid, you can't argue for Over Spending on Adrian Beltre.

Paulie,

On NIck: no, not me. I've actually defended him when people call him overrated. I don't have a man crush on him, but I believe those with more baseball knowledge than me, that Nick is a fine player. Not great, but better than average.

I don't think it's possible to overpay for Tex, Albert, or Mauer. Those are known quantities. If you want one of those guys, you don't let anyone get between you and them. But that's just me.

Mes,

Not trying? They've put offers on the table to countless Free Agents. Tex included. Tex didn't "want" to come here. He "wanted" to be a Yankee.

Submitting an offer that was $40MM less than other publicized offers is not my definition of "trying", paulie.

Consistently offering less than contending teams is not my definition of "trying".

Anyway...

You can argue the specifics of the GM Eras, but they're damn similar.

Sure, Andy hasn't acquired an All Star shortstop (or any All Star anything else), but is that supposed to be a good thing?

And Andy hasn't spent $50MM on the bullpen in an offseason, but he's handed out too much money to mediocre relievers, just like he predecessors.

And are you trying to say that Andy hasn't signed "projects"? Because if you are, I'm ready to throw out a bunch of evidence to the contrary.

PS - Can we please just win this game this inning?

Paulie,

Just in case you missed it ( I doubt it ), Tex said:

"Of the five offers I received, the Orioles were by far the lowest offer and I don't know if they were ever that serious about signing me. We had one meeting and that was it. I'm not sure if they were ever very interested."

How can you say the O's were trying?! Really?! is that what you call that, trying? You are absolutely right. He didn't want to come here. Would you want to play for the O's if they don't want you?

First off, the O's were the first team to put in an offer to Tex and the agent said "no need".

Secondly, Tex is one free agent.

not brooks, I'm saying Only Andy has had his projects.

Mes, is it only "trying" when you win the bidding?

Andy did get a 23 year old All Star Gold glover. Did any of the other GM's trade or acquire that type of talent?

It's just not as black and white as you'd have it. Spend = win... Peter Angelos has done that.

Didn't work. For years. Thus, Andy and a change of strategy. Were you happier in 3rd than 5th? Is loosing less better? First looser?

They just beat us with a hand tied behind their back. They had 3 relievers that were "untouchable". And on the road.
And we still lost.
I wish I could make myself stop following this team. Maybe next year.
If the Orioles front office had any semblance of pride in their work, Gonzalez would be DFA tomorrow.
And I typed all of that before his punk ass beaned the yank backup after he blew the game on his first pitch. That punk move moved our STARTING ROTATION!!! MY GOD WHAT DOES THIS GUY HAVE TO DO TO GET CUT>

HE LIES LAST YEAR ABOUT BEING HURT, DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE THAT GIVE HIM A $10mILLION CONTRACT.

HE IS A TERRIBLE PITCHER

HE BEANS A SCRUB IN THE HEAD WHEN HE BLOWS A GAME.

Are the Orioles still a major league team or are we a AAAA team?

Pete,

Was Tex lying about being a Yankee fan? I'm going to answer that with a few questions.

Were the Ravens lying when they said Jimmy Smith was their choice, when they dropped down with him being available? Would they say Jimmy Smith was their guy if he got drafted by another team?

Context Pete, context. You of all people can see through the BS of pleasing the masses. That's what Tex was doing.

Pete -

In response to your question to Meso, maybe he could've been a Yankee fan, but in the end it's all about his best interest. He wanted to play for a winner anyway, because if I remember correctly, the Nationals made a very strong run at Teixeira and offered him nearly the same amount and years as NY

My question to you is, what difference does it make if he was or wasn't a yankee fan? He said what he was supposed to say in front of the NY media. And in his case, it only matters if performs. When he doesn't, he'll be trashed just as bad as any other player from the Yankee's past.

Him claiming to be a Yankee fan or Don Mattingly fan or Eddie Murray fan was just a feel good statement.