Surprising result tonight. I’m happy about it.

Go O’s

Why in the world would ANYONE want to ever see Reynolds back in the line-up. The guy is brutal beyond words.

And you all know that..... even while Andino is FAR (very FAR) from ideal at 3B, he's better in the line-up and in the field that Reynolds... It's not even close.

Wowzers....

Did anyone see CBS Sports list of the most over rated players? Vlad was #1, and guess who is #3?

Go see for yourself what they say about Markakis.

Hey...... I'm just the messenger.

The Orioles beat one of the best pitchers in the game tonight. The Orioles beat one of the top pitching prospects (backed by performance as well as hype) last night.

Read wayne's comments over the past two days. Tell me if you honestly believe he's a fan.

I'm as jaded as the next guy. I've watched them lose just as much as anyone else has. I think MacPhail's set this team back in more ways than one.

Last night's win has a lot of problems in it. But it was a win. Wins are the only thing that matters according to him. Yet, he had to point out all the mistakes and blamed it all on AM. Like always.

Nothing matters to him except bashing AM. Nothing.

I challenge you to to find him saying anything positive without him turning it into an anti-MacPhail backhand (spring training facility, anyone?).

But he goes to the games. So that nullifies everything, right wayne?

1) It's a good thing Buck doesn't actually sign up for things in blood as often as he would apparently like to, or we'd be out yet another manager.

2) Wayne was probably awash in giddiness when he saw the CBS list. I fail to see how Vlad is overrated, because I don't think anyone believes he is anything close to the same player he used to be, nor do they expect him to be that player. I think most rational projections had him at .280 with 20 HR, which he's mostly on pace for. And if they're calling his CAREER overrated, then they're just plain dumb. If Derek Jeter (making easy plays look hard since 1996) isn't on the list, then it should just be disregarded altogether.

I agree that Nick is overrated by us Orioles fans, because he's been our best all around player for several years now. But his approach at the plate over the course of the past several days--specifically, going to left field more often, as he did last year, instead of trying to pull--suggests he's comfortable with who he is, and who he is a pretty good baseball player. A .290-.300 hitter who knows how to drive in runs, has some pop (though not as much as we had hoped) and plays stellar defense. A prototypical No. 2 hitter. It's up to the FO to find other outlets to recoup the power that other teams often get from their RF (OK, Wayne, here's where you jump in).

Incidentally, Wayne, I thought Markakis was one of the guys you actually liked?

JJ,

Nah man! The O's are supposed to beat the Mariners 9 times out 10. Yes we're a bad team; however the Mariners are worse. We at least have some "perceived' upside, they ain't got none.

Noel,

Markakis wrist injury is well documented. The man didn't just forget how to hit all of a sudden. MacPhail, the idiot that he is, didn't handle the situation like a GM and tell Cakes to get the effing surgery done last year.

Bold prediction: Series sweep tomorrow. A sweep against Tampa, 2 out of 3 against Boston and NY.

Meso -

King Felix? How many times out of 10 do the O's beat him?

I know Hardy has trouble staying on the field, but he's a pretty solid player both offensively and defensively. Seems like Machado won't be here until 2013 at the earliest so wouldn't it make sense to give Hardy a two-year deal? If they don't, the O's just gonna have go out and sign some Cesar Izturis type anyway to hold down the fort for a couple seasons.

Vlad,

Right

wayne -

Would you ever tell us about anything good you see written about this team?

Because it seems like you would rather crap on it every chance you read something negative. Not just once, but the same thing on multiple threads. As if you need the attention.

So CBS Sports called a 36 year old DH overrated. I'm shocked. They called a formerly underrated star player overrated because he's in a slump. Great! Next their gonna tell us Derek Jeter is an overrated shortstop - but that's impossible. He's a Yankee.

Sounds to me like they're basing their prognosis on the past month and a half. Let me guess....it's fantasy?

And CBS has Ryan Howard at #2 and Victor Martinez--a player that a lot of people on here wanted for the Birds---at #6. So what does that say about that list? Maybe it just says some good hitters are off to a slow start. Nothing more,nothing less.

Hey Wayne - give it up - you are not a fan -- gosh even in a win you can't say a positive comment - i sure hope you did not have any kids - they must be so lacking in any self confidence - sad very sad.

Overrated is one of those terms that most people easily define in their own minds, but has no real substance to have a universally agreed upon definition.

Guerrero couldn't be a better example.

Here's a guy who few question will go into the Hall of Fame five, six at most, years after retirement. At age 36 and at a health standard where he no longer plays a position requiring a glove, his only offer was being a one-year rental by a team with the second longest losing season streak.

So is he really overrated? Or is he just being compared to his former self?

Don't kill yourself over answering the above questions. There are no right or wrong answers. It comes down to how one defines overrated. And in that sense, overrated is overrated.

I didn't see the CBS list until now. Here is it for all you home gamers.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/playerrankings

I don't agree with it at all! And, no, I am not going to break it down as to why. Except to say it's "ABSURD"!
Peter, thanks for the new blog. I feel I can let my hair down a little more here.
Which leads me to this!

JIM PALMER IS A TOOL!

I would like to use stronger language, but I am usually pretty good about that and don't want to ruin my good reputation. =P! However, the man drives me nuts! Palmer is obviously not a big fan of Chris Tillman. Everytime Tillman allegedly messed up last night. Palmer was right on him. Lack of velocity, he's pitching backwards (change ups first, fast ball second), his release point is gone blah blah blah. How about this Jimbo your release point "Stinks" as an announcer/analyst, you're "BORING". You get you hair and nails done at the same time. You're a Pansy! I don't care if your a Hall of Famer. Bring Back Ben McDonald! I am tired of the Jim Palmer Act! If we can't bring back Ben, trade Jim Palmer for Rob Dibble! That would be acceptable to me! Get Jimbo out of here!

Sorry Peter for the rant, but when Jim doesn't like someone that I like, it gets under my fur!

I like that Buck sat Reynolds, but keep in mind, Andino's an average UT player. 6 LOB last night - not good at all. Surprised it took Buck this long to do this. Give Reynolds a day off more frequently, and see what that does. We're married to him for a while so we got to try and make it work.

Jones is hot, and maybe that will spread with others. It needs to spread to B Rob who's absolutely killing us - more than Reynolds is. Reynolds isn't our leadoff hitter; we can at least bury his bat in the bottom half of the lineup.

Impaler, we know he's not a fan. He's wished Britton would get sent down and he's actually written cheers on here when we lose. My problem with him is when he's caught telling lies and doesn't admit when he's wrong. The millions of posts are certainly narcissistic, and we know by now there's nothing new or original in his commentary.

@Squirrel: actually, I think you're a little off. The pitching backwards thing is often used as a compliment since it shows a lack of predictability, and Tillman had a great change up last night, as Palmer repeatedly noted, so it made sense for him to approach the hitters "backwards." Also, Tillman has done almost nothing to warrant any kind of faith or belief in him, but Palmer said, more than once, something along of the lines of, "This kid is going to figure it out, he's too good not to." When he said that, I thought he was being a little overly generous to Tillman. Not trying to be disagreeable, just pointing out what I heard.

The Squirrel,

Jim Palmer tells is as he sees it. To me as a fan it's great to hear a hall of famer break it down for a regular fan like me.

Last thing I want is Jim Palmer to be a tool in Angelos' and MacPhail's hands and praise a pitcher who doesn't belong in the big leagues.

I didn't watch the entire game, but I didn't think Tillman pitch any better than he has this season. It's just that Seattle let him get away with a lot of mistakes.

What do you want Palmer to be Hawk Harrelson? I can appreciate homerism, but the team is at the bottom of the food chain, on a 13 year losing skid. It's not like they've won 27 world titles. Homerism in our case is just plain silly. Telling it like it is shows cojones. I commend Palmer for not being a tool. Now more than ever we need people who speak the truth.

@Noel,

Palmer did say something like Tillman's too good not to figure this out. I have not been a fan of Tillman because his velocity is horrible. Give him a low-mid 90's fastball, and with maturing, he'd be very good.

Having Wieters behind the plate and not Fox makes a big difference. They made that comment last time around when he got shelled, and Fox was catching. So let's promote a catcher who can call the game and let Fox ph.

@jon, regarding Hardy: if Machado is on pace to make the big league club in 2013, then we would only need another starting SS(Hardy or otherwise) for ONE season, since Hardy is already here for 2011...

I like Palmer too. He is one of my favorite parts of watching the O's. Does anyone else notice that Palmer does not speak in complete sentences? You subconsciously have to fill in the blanks for him. But his insights into the game are great. I liked last night in the 6th when he was openly pleading with Tillman to make one pitch, pick up his teammates and get out of the inning.

Palmer also asked last night “how can you learn to pitch when your pitch count is up if you never pitch when your pitch count is up?” Good question. Stretching Tillman out and having success could help with his progress. Still not sure what the O’s have in him, but I like it when he pitches well.

You know, Wayne, I think I actually met you at a game in Baltimore once. Seriously.

It was an Orioles vs. Red Sox game on August 2, 2009. My wife and I were there on the first day of our honeymoon before heading up to Maine for the rest of the week.

We were sitting in the left field stands, just a few rows back from the field, and we were surrounded by Red Sox fans: soccer moms panting for Jacoby Ellsbury, teenagers texting incessantly with Red Sox-labeled cell phones and no intent on paying attention to the game, and more.

There was, however, one Oriole fan decked out in Oriole gear. He was sitting behind us, and when we walked down to this section of seats, his orange bill stuck out like a duck getting sucked under in a swamp of red clay mud. But he clearly followed the Orioles closely, knew every player on the field, and initially offered some good-natured sarcastic banter about the (mis)direction of the team.

He was at the game. He was wearing orange in a sea of red. He was, to some degree, knowledgeable about the team. Sounds like the way you present yourself on this blog, Wayne.

But what really convinces me that this guy might have been you, Wayne, is that halfway through the game, he started rooting against the Orioles. My wife still talks about what a conflicted jerk this guy was. Halfway through the game, the Orioles were trailing, and this guy in orange started catcalling Felix Pie.

"Hey PIE. What kind of name is PIE? I want me a piece of PIE... heh heh."

The Red Sox fans began to chortle with delight, and the guy got visibly and audibly excited by the attention he was getting from them.

Fly ball to Pie: "Hey PIE! Don't miss it! LALALALALA!" as Felix runs it down and makes the catch.

The guy was actually trying to distract Pie from making a catch, and he was delighting in the attention he was getting from the Red Sox fans. They actually started giving him high fives, and he was in ecstasy.

Yes, he was there. Yes, he was wearing orange. And yes, he was deriving pleasure from the Orioles' losing as an opportunity to get more attention for himself.

Sound familiar?

Yes, Wayne, I'm pretty sure we've met....

Hey Wayne -- the guy you always put down -- well that guy got us Tillman and Jones --- key players in last nights game and key players with unlimited upside. Today, no one would trade Tillman for Bedard. Andy got us Tillman and Jones plus that trade will still keep sending the love with other players picked up through the wonderful process that Andy is building. Gee Wayne, why not just put the pinstipes on and move to NY. Lets face it the world according to Wayne is a cloudy, dreary place that is only made worse by AM.

Time to see the light Wayneman!!

dave,

Like I said dave..... don't kill the messenger. Hey, all I did was make mention of the list. You guys are the one's who ran with it.

AND OF COURSE you guys don't agree with the list. Why? Because many O's fans have had their heads in the sand since AM got here. Still do......

And 'just because Nick is in a slump'? That's some slump dave.... goes back quite a while now. hmmmm.

Let me point something out guys.... as was pointed out by CBS when they presented their list (you must have missed it).

Players like Derek Jeter weren't left off the list because he's a Yankee. Nope. Instead, he was left off because he's no longer highly rated. In other words, few who are knowledgeable about the game expect much from Derek these days... thus he's not over rated.

Understand?

But to better answer your question dave...... NO. I have nothing good to say about this Oriole team.

I like some individual players.... like Guthrie, Britton, Weiters, and a couple others.... but as a team... as an organization.... There's nothing to like.

dave dave dave dave dave,

Like I've said..... even the worst teams win 60 some games per year. Maybe even in the 70's. But to get excited about a win here and there.... on the way to those wins is...... well, silly.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy games at the Yard though. And the O's play in a great Yard.... something PA and AM have nothing to do with.

Birdfan,

I loved your post. Honestly, it was one of the best around here in a while.

No sir..... that guy wasn't me, as my friends and I never call out players on either team. We would never yell at a home team player, just like we don't heckle the opposing team. We don't boo Arod or any of the Roid players, and we didn't boo Tex when he first visited the Yard as a Yank.

It's just not our thing.

We do wear the home team colors however..... as tough as that can be at times. Honestly though, we don't even know we're wearing O's hats anymore. It's just habit.

We're there for see major league baseball. As an O's fans... that's really all anyone really still has.

Until smitty's right that is.... and who knows, maybe he'll be right this season.

Again though Birdfan...... awesome post.

Who is or isn't over rated or under rated is a matter of opinion.

And, really, doesn't it have to do with how players are being rated?

Someone tell me who is talking about Vlad as one of the better hitters in the game at this point in his career. We're talking about a 36-year-old DH making $8MM on a one year contract. And everyone knows he struggled in the second half of last season.

And Ryan Howard? Sure he's not as good as Tex/Fielder/Gonzalez, but who's saying he is? Howard's struggles against lefties have been well-documented and hundreds of writers have criticized the Phillies for that ridiculous extension they gave him.

And Dallas Braden? He's over rated because he threw a perfect game, got in a tussle with A-Rod and pitches as his team's number four starter? Riiight... Braden's a middle of the rotation guy with good control who has been able to find succees without above average stuff. And even with the perfecto and the "my mound!" business, I don't think anyone has ever tried to make him out to be more than that.

Moving on to Jimmy Rollins... What? The writer doesn't even make a case for Rollins being over rated. Rollins used to be one of the best shortstops in the game. He's not anymore. Everyone knows that. I think there's a difference between being over rated and not being as good as you used to be.

And that about sums up the article. It's 75% guys who aren't as good as they used to be, 15% one hit wonders, 10% guys who make too much money, and 100% ridiculous.

On Nick's inclusion on that list:

His declining home run and stolen base numbers have been well-documented over the past two or three years. Most of that talk comes from the fantasy arena because guys who write about the real life game don't write about the Orioles very often.

In Nick's case, it's just that he hasn't been as good as he used to be. No one that anyone listens to is talking about Nick as a top outfielder, so how is it that he's over rated?

I do believe that Nick is over rated by some Oriole fans (cough, paulie, cough...), but I don't see it happening past the local level. And doesn't every fan base over rate its own players?

Going for the trifecta...

One thing that shouldn't be ignored here is the typical thing that wayne does with national articles that include something about the Orioles.

Sure, the positive ones are few and far between, but when someone does write something good about the Orioles, wayne either ignores it or calls it BS spin. And then when the negative ones come out, he preaches them as gospel.

As I've said before, this team has given all of us all plenty of reasons to be pessimistic, but our good buddy wayne takes that to a new level.

Jon in Arnold,

The wonderful process that Andy is building?!

I was about to type about 200 words per minute and unleash a 25 page MacPhail assessment on you, but then I said to myself: Why bother? Someone who makes that comment can't see the truth this his myopic vision.

These lists are SUPPOSED to be controversial, otherwise no one would read them. I'm not even going to bother.

It's like few years ago when Rolling Stone put Jack White on the Top 20 Guitarists of All Time list, or some other silly darn thing, and people went berzerk in the guitar community.

YAWN.

Markakis really isn't all that overrated, as no one really rates him as an elite guy anymore -- except homers. And homers are homers -- they overrate everyone, which is why they are homers. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with that. Enjoy the team. It's better than being a pure hater. I'm neither pure Homer or pure Hater, and can see both sides of the story.

Regarding Nick: is he in a massive slump? Yup. I've said it before that I think he's broken. He could be having a David Duval-like mental slump, or he could be hurt. If he is hurt, then dammit, get fixed, get healthy, and then come back. I don't need a "gamer" who can't hit.

"few who are knowledgeable about the game expect much from Derek these days... thus he's not over rated." - wayne

Let's break it down.

wayne thinks he is amongst the few who are knowledgeable about the game.

wayne thought the Orioles getting Guerrero was a foolish move because he did not rate Guerrero very highly.

wayne now trumpets a list that places Guerrero has thee most overrated player.

So, either wayne is wrong that Guerrero was highly rated in the first place making him now overrated, or he is wrong for supporting this list because the author of the list must have had Guerrero highly rated to now place him at the top of the overrated list making the author not very knowledgeable by wayne's standards.

Given that many teams would have wanted Jeter had he been open to negotiating outside of the Yankees and Guerrero had the Orioles only bidding against themselves, it is incredibly easy to see Jeter was more highly rated during the past offseason than Guerrero making Jeter's exclusion and Guerrero's inclusion on the list harder to justify.

Understand?

Actually waspman, didn't Wayne say that Vlad would never come here, and that a better team such as Tampa would jump on him? That the O's would screw it up and NOT get him?

Yes, I believe he did.

Squirrel, it's fine if you don't like Palmer. But you can't call him a pansy for putting Tillman down. He would have been a pansy had he said Tillman was simply unlucky in all of his previous starts to amass a 7-plus ERA.

I have mixed feelings about Tillman. He's had success in the minor leagues, but I think he has been grossly mishandled by the Orioles. At his age, he should have faced the minor league hitters a second and a third time to see if they could adjust to him and to see if he could adjust to them adjusting to him.

And that goes especially for his age.

Even in an outing that lowered his ERA by a full run, he needed 112 pitches to get through six innings -- and he only gave up three hits. While it could have been worse and it had been worse, it's hard to applaud someone for making the bullpen work "only" three innings.

there is no Wayne

wayne -

I don't like the list because I don't understand the criteria. And you knew what you were doing when you brought up the list on multiple threads, so please, spare me the "don't kill the messenger" garbage.

Markakis, in his career, was never considered a top outfielder. Ever. So at what point was he considered overrated? Because he's not the stud people thought he would be? Or is it because some fantasy owners got their heart broken because they went into the season thinking it was 'his year'?

The article was loosely written and gives no insight. Guerrero swings at anything -tell me something I don't know. Markakis isn't the player we thought he would be - tell me something I don't know. V Martinez is overrated according to the article - I said that last offseason.

Why isn't Jayson Werth on that list? Seen his latest numbers with that ridiculous contract the Nats gave him? Oh, thats right, according you Rizzo has a better "plan" than AM - that's why it's May and the Nats are barely holding their heads above water. Let me get my head outta the sand....

Adam Dunn?
John Lackey?
AJ Burnett?

The list goes on, wayne. And when Jeter makes the All Star team again, hit me back up for "overrated".....

Dave,

Just to pick apart a small piece of your post: Saying Derek Jeter is overrated is like saying Ray Lewis is overrated. If I want to be anal about it I can say, OK, yeah, he is not as good as he used to be. But no one can put a number to the kind of leadership that Jeter provides that is crucial to the Yankees year and year out success. The guy is a class act, and a first ballot hall of famer. I'm an O's fan, but I'm also a baseball fan, and even though he plays for the Yankees, I can appreciate his contribution to the game of baseball. I wish we had someone like him.

Those who are averring that "over-rated" is a matter of individual definition are right. How highly a player is rated includes many factors, but one that has not been mentioned here is how individual players are often rated by osmosis, based on the success of their teams. If Jeter had played for 15 years with, say, Pittsburgh or Kansas City or Baltimore, would he be considered such a lock for the Hall of Fame, would he win numerous Gold Gloves? Almost certainly not. The teams Jeter has played on have won; he is a part of that, surely, but I would venture to say that if JJ Hardy had been at shortstop for all those years with the Yankees, their w-l record, playoff appearances, WS rings, et.al. would be about, if not exactly, the same. Look at some of those Yankees (and I hate the Yankees, so I have a bias, but ...) who are considered such good players: Swisher, Granderson, Gardner, Joba, Hughes, even Posada, Bernie Williams. How would they be perceived if they played on teams who perennially lost? I am thinking of somebody like Phil Jackson, who has won 11 NBA championships. Great. Terrific. But he also won those with some combination of Jordan, Pippin, Shaq, and Kobe. Would he be a HOFer if he had coached Minnesota or New Jersey or the Clippers? No.

I get what you're saying CO Oriole, but I have to disagree.

Here are Jeter's closest comparables (the starred players are Hall of Famers):

Roberto Alomar (869) *
Barry Larkin (824)
Frankie Frisch (805) *
Charlie Gehringer (799) *
Lou Whitaker (787)
Alan Trammell (786)
Ryne Sandberg (782) *
Ted Simmons (774)
Joe Morgan (771) *
Johnny Damon (765)

Five Hall of Famers and five guys who always come up in Hall of Fame arguments.

Jeter's 38 hits away from 3,000.

He's got a .313/.384/.451 career slash line. Compare that to the league numbers during his career: .270/.339/.430

He never won an MVP Award, but he finished in the top ten in voting seven times.

In his "prime" (ages 24-33), his average season looked like this: .321/.393/.472, 18 home runs, 23 stolen bases.

Sure, he's never been much in the field and his decline has been difficult to watch, but there's no arguing that Derek Jeter is one of the best players of his generation. And where I come from, that's a Hall of Famer regardless of what team you play for.

Colorado Oriole,

Doc Halladay pitched for the Jays from 2001-2009. If he continued to pitch for them from 2009-2019 and they never go over 500 again, he would still be a first ballot hall of famer. I think the players accomplishment and their number sometimes are regardless of the team they play for. Just an example. I'm not completely dismissing your comments; however you can argue that those Yankee teams wouldn't have been as successful without Derek Jeter. Just sayin!

In preparation for my bold prediction from last night being fulfilled, I've copied and pasted some fun facts from MLB.com. Enjoy!

Zach Britton is going for his sixth win of the season tonight...The Orioles did not have a pitcher record his sixth win of 2010 until August 8 (Jeremy Guthrie)...The last Oriole pitcher to record his sixth win still in the month of May was Kris Benson, who notched his sixth win of the 2006 campaign on May 19 against Washington...According to Elias, the last two Orioles pitchers to record their sixth win as early as May 12 were Scott Erickson (May 11, 1997) and Jimmy Key (May 7, 1997)...Britton is 3-1 with a 2.52 ERA (25.0IP, 7ER) at Oriole Park this year...Three of his four home starts (and five of seven overall) have been Quality Starts.

J.J. Hardy came off the disabled list Tuesday and is 5-for-7 with two walks, a homer, a run scored and one RBI...His four-hit game Tuesday tied a career-high (eighth of his career)...The Orioles are 6-2 when Hardy plays shortstop and 10-17 when he does not.

Nick Markakis has recorded a base hit in 151 consecutive series, the longest such streak in the majors...Markakis has had a hit in each series since being held hitless in a three-game series (he played in two of the games) by Tampa Bay May 23-25, 2008...Since seeing his average dip below .200 on April 19 (.197), Markakis has hit in 13 of his last 18 games and has five multi-hit games in his last eight contests, going 12-for-36 (.333) to raise his average to .239.

Luke Scott is batting .321 (18-57) with three doubles, four homers, nine runs scored and 12 RBI in his last 15 games (since April 24)...Scott has an extra-base hit in six of his last 13 games and has homered in four of those 13 games.

Matt Wieters is 12-for-21 (.571) with three doubles, three homers and 19 RBI when batting with runners in scoring position...With two outs and RISP, he is 8-for-13 (.615) with two doubles, a homer and 11 RBI...Wieters began the year 7-for-7 with runners in scoring position.

that was me:

Posted by: Anonymous | May 12, 2011 5:07 PM

dave,

Nick was never considered a top outfielder? Huh? Of course he was.... especially coming out of the '08 season. Where were you?

Again though......

I never said I supported the list folks. All I did was make mention of it. I didn't mean for it to take over the entire thread.

Sorry Pete... or, you're welcome (whichever works for you).

waspan,

Ferg Deluz is correct. I didn't believe Vlad would come here. I thought the price would be too high for AM.

Little did I know that PA would step in and make that deal happen.

Proof that AM didn't want Vlad..... he's doing the best of the offseason acquisitions.... AM obviously had nothing to do with him.

nb,

When I see a national story saying the O's are on the correct path, I'll be sure to make note of it.

Remember though, there are players I have absolutely touted on this team. No points for that? Darn....

Another great evening for a ball game. Another night of empty green seats though (sigh).

Big game though..... If the O's are going to get to 73 wins, they need to sweep the Mariners.

Did anyone see JJ’s Sports list of the most over-rated posters on The Schmuck Stops Here blog?

Guess who is #1…

Yes, it is another beautiful night for a ballgame.

Go O’s

Yes, wayne, in hindsight Markakis was becoming a top tier outfielder in 2008. And in the meantime, George Sherrill was our lone all-star because he had a great 1st half and Aubrey Huff was the Silver Slugger with MVP votes.

Even when Markakis was on the edge of stardom, he still wasn't getting the recognition he deserved because he wasn't pumping out the stats everyone is attracted to. Nationally, he was underrated. Only in Baltimore was he the next golden child.

Meso -

I'm not arguing that Jeter isn't a sure HOFer - his 3000 hits will make him lock, if he isn't already. I'm arguing that his best years are behind him and he probably gets more credit today than he deserves. The same thing happened with Cal Ripken.

If Jeter makes the all star team or recieves any awards or votes for awards, its probably due to name recognition and homerism - like his Gold Glove in '09 and '10. He really shouldn't be a SS anymore.

Sure, he might be a leader and whatever other intangibles, but his ability is declining quick (his GB% is 70% ouch). If his intangibles are that vital to the Yankees, it's at the point where he would be off better serving them as a coach or manager within the next couple years.

7 pitches...let's shoot for 3 pitches next inning
you think i'm kidding?

the offense doesn't want guthrie to feel alone, so rather than scoring a few runs for him, they find it easier to not score runs for anyone..see, there's more than one way to skin a cat

Wow, it's painful to even watch Reynolds bat right now. He looks so lost. Nice acquisition. Why is Pie not in the lineup again?

Boy, what is CBS's problem with the Orioles? Squirrel's father told me about this one. I usually don't read Yahoo/CBS sports. With exception of today.

23. Baltimore Orioles (16-19; Previous: 20) – Showalter club just a couple elements from becoming a very good ballclub: pitching, hitting.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/playerrankings

Also, if I was too critical of Jim Palmer because of him being too critical, I am sorry.

O's offense is having a bit of bad luck.
As for Reynolds, I do feel bad for him, it's not the lack of effort I sense. He just can't hit the ball right now.

Sorry wrong link.

Team Rankings

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=At0uiUA4e0EpSwLE1iSgzYgRvLYF?slug=ti-brown_mlb_baseball_power_rankings_051211

looks to me like reynolds has a better shot at giving birth than getting a hit at this point

i hope what he has is not contagious, because it is deadly

The whole order is pretty bad but the top three with Roberts, Nick and Lee batting .230 or less is hard to fathom. Pie batted second last night, did a good job and he doesn't start tonight. Very strange. I'll say it again and again, Lee can't be a No. 3 hitter. He's at the tail end of his career.

cellar dwelling offenses never fail to depress..imagine showalter post-game has to give kudos to a guy who entered the game with an era around 5..i continue to hope that lee and vlad break out of it and can be moved post-haste.
the Os are stuck with reynolds. no way out of that one.

buck should have sent markakis home.

Come on Nick. 0-5 with another double play? Guys, they're not pitching around Nick either. This is more than just a slump. If he's hurt, get him out of there. He's killing us in the two hole. Put Pie there for a time. Nick is too young and hasn't accomplished enough to never be moved around in the order.

Reynolds is just embarrassing. It can't be described as anything else.

Right on about Reynolds fellas. The only way that guy is going to hit the ball, is if he gets lucky and the ball finds his bat. He is actually making Garret Atkins look pretty good right about now.

So MacPhail is wasting a season with Atkins, correction Reynolds, at third. Another season will be wasted next year "evaluating" Josh Bell. What gives?

The O's are 2-8 vs left handed pitching this year. They made that scrub Vargas look like a Cy Young candidate out there. Depressing!

On a good note: How about Matt Weiters? Outstanding!

How about Britton? This kid is for real.

Bold prediction: I still stand by my last night's bold prediction. Damn Seattle just scored. Oh what the heck ... I still believe.

JC,

About moving Nick around. Nick is Greek. Angelos is Greek. Nick bypassed MacPhail and went straight to Angelos last year. Hope this clarifies it for you :-) .

the only thing AM should be thinking about is how he is going to dismantle this mess
in some sort of graceful fashion.

JJ just gave up a game winning hit to a cleanup hitter batting 207.
If I didn't see it, I would not believe it.

@jim66

buck should have sent markakis home.

Well if Russell had sent Markakis home, he would have been out by 20 ft... hardy har har har =P

O's win - good one

Meso,

Nice call.

Sweep.

JJ, saved by JJ

Why in the world would you dismantle what is being built?....unless you were just an impatient sort of person.

66 - I should have posted that

seriously jim66..
Dismantle?
Are you watching what is happening with this team?
You do realize we have the best top 3 young pitchers in baseball?
And perhaps the best catcher in baseball?
and the best O's shortstop since Ripken?
and the best O's center fielder since Paul Blair?
What team are you watching?..
This thing has been being built for 4 years after 10 years of dismantling and you want to dismantle again?

Now tweak I get .....dismantle is absurd.

When I say "top 3 young pitchers in baseball, i refer to them as a group, not necessarily individually...

But is there a better group of "under 25" starters right now than
Matusz
Britton
Arietta

Gotta love a sweep, no matter who you're playing.

And if there's only one good thing to say about this team, it's that they never quit.

By the by, who was it that was all up in arms when wayne called pitcher's wins a "bs stat"? Well, tonight is a prime example of why that's 100% true. Britton and Vargas both pitched nine innings of shutout ball and neither of them got a win.

PS - J.J. Hardy!

Smitty's right about the top 3 starters. The only group that compares would be Oakland with Cahill, Anderson and Gonzalez, but I'd take the O's trio.

Ok Smitty, dismantle is a little strong.
But I think they need more than a tweak.
How can you not like Matt and Jones, and Hardy is a huge upgrade. But the rest of the lineup is a mess right now.

They have some real nice young pitching, an underperforming bullpen (perhaps in part because they are overused), and one of the worst offenses in all of baseball.

There seems to be a scarcity of help available in Norfolk. As far as the minors go, their best prospects are right now in Delmarva and Frederick, and a couple in Bowie getting their feet on the ground. They probably have some difference makers there, led by Machado.

You can be hopeful but still at the end of the day be a bit practical. I hope they go crazy and win out, but it's a minor miracle and no doing of their own that they are only 4 games back of the Yanks
in a bunched up AL East.

I think it's great that they beat a team they should beat 3 at home, but they have a ways to go.

smitty, I just don't see it. We still are no closer to having corner infielders than when Andy got here. It's been said that our #3 and #4 hitters will be gone next season, and I agree. How much does Brian have left with that back, and there's no one in the system. Nick isn't nearly the player we thought he would be. Really, aside from Jones, I don't see what MacPhail has accomplished.

I love the sweep, but keep in mind it was against a bad team. We still did nothing against a southpaw, and the bats overall are just dismal.

I like Britton (who doesn't), and Arietta may be the real deal. And I'm hoping Matusz turns out to be what we all hope. Still though, these guys are really young and we don't know what we have yet. Remember, people were nuts over Bergesen 2 years ago. Young pitchers are very unpredictable.

And I believe it's very unfair to use the 'patience' word in this town. 4 years is plenty of time to show signs of rebuilding a team in baseball. Rebuilding has never really been Andy's thing. Even the Twins teams he inherited way back when had a solid base of players.

Sorry, but I just don't see it. I agree with 66. Aside from a few good pieces, dismantle would be the right way to go. I'm glad you're excited, but you need to keeps the Oriole wins in perspective.

Meso, you have Oriole magic locked down.

I am seriously impressed. Thanks for believing for us.

Orioles SWEEP!

(Though has there ever been a matchup that felt more futile than the O's vs. the Mariners?)

First things first. First part of the prediction is in the books. 2nd part is sweep against Tampa. I know, crazy right? But I'm feeling it!

Second:

Smitty and Jim,

I think you're discussing semantics here. I tend to agree with Jim, because I just don't like Smitty, let's be upfront about that. Just kidding Smit, I just don't care too much for your euphoria.

If you have to find first, second, third basemen, 1-2 starting pitchers, 2-3 bullpen pitchers by next season ... hell yeah I'd call it dismantle.

Who exactly are the cornerstones you're trying to build around, Weiters and Jones? They're good players, but let's not get carried away. Matusz, Arrietta and Britton still haven't proved they belong yet, let alone be cornerstones of your franchise.

Ok Its true its Seattle...
It's equally true that to be overly worried about the hitting is premature. I think Derek lee will heat up as the weather does. Nick will hit.
Does anyone remember the awful starts eddie Murray used to have? I think Lee will have a similar pattern.
The hitting will come and the starting pitching looks deep once Matusz is back.
Lets go sweep Tampa again to show who the division goes through this year.

Buck looked like a proud parent watching the boys celebrate tonight.

"Buck looked like a proud parent watching the boys celebrate tonight"

Amen Smitty,

I loved that shot of Buck smiling. It almost brought tears to my eyes. I just can't imagine what it would be like when the O's become good one day. There is so much fan emotion bottled up for years, ready to burst. If only Peter Angelos knew how to tap it.

Ok everyone. Lee is now being compared to Eddie Murray. Do you really need to see anything else?

Do you even have a clue about the career averages for Murray and Lee and that they are not that different?
And I didn't even compare anything except the slow start..

so yes I really said that Wayne

and did you stop to think that if Lee was able to play for 5 more years to equal the 21 that m
Murray played and he put up his average year for the next 5 his statistics would be very similar to Eddies?

you didn't think of that? It's true. you can look it up beaner