Wasn't some luminary just educating us on how average Markakis is?
I wonder if he was watching that first RBI. Pretty sweet piece of hitting there.

If you were listening big Mike, you heard me say I hope Nick turns it around this year... Perhaps he will become that star we hoped he would be. Tonight was a good start.

I said it last year, and I'll say it again now.... Jeremy Guthrie would be the ace on many teams in MLB. In NY, he'd be their #2, and in line to make north of 15m per season.

Yet in Baltimore, you'll see a Matusz bobble head night (which is coming up) before you'll ever see a Guthrie night.

On a contender, he's an automatic 15 game winner... yet many in Baltimore don't even give him a second thought (read last years responses to me saying he was an ace).

Jeremy Guthrie is what we hope the young pitchers, who everyone always wants to anoint as the next star, some day becomes.

Wake up people...... odds are JG will be wearing pinstripes before you know it.....

Wayne is right about JG. He is a 15-game winner on a very good team, hopefully we're that very good team this season.

Now that wasn't hard was it...

Now we just need to do that 96 more times..

good stuff

Now that wasn't hard was it...

Now we just need to do that 96 more times..

good stuff

I think Guthrie would have been gone after the 7th inning under every manager for the last 10 years. Or at least he would have been gone after having 2 baserunners on in the 8th.
I personally liked some of those managers but this is different. This is good.
Look out for the surprise team of 2011....your very own Baltimore Orioles!!!

Solid win. The MLB season is a marathon, but this is a good way to start. Jeremy Guthrie was just filthy tonight.

I have never seen Guthrie look so good!
Love to see him do that all year long. I look forward to that.

Other highlights
D Lee nice soft hands. Made a brilliant play on that hot smash along the 1st base line.

Scott... never a doubt out in LF =p

Hardy probable was the best overall as far as positional players.

Damon is getting old sadly. I was laughing pretty good when he tried to flick the ball to Upton on Robert double.

I thoroughly enjoyed the game!

Wayne,

I like Guthrie a lot; however let's not get carried away with one game. Guthrie has been highly inconsistent in Baltimore. He started very well, on a bad team mind you; however he did lead the Majors in home runs allowed a couple of years ago (if I'm not mistaken).

He pitched very well last year towards the second half of the season. Let's hope he can find his comfort zone. And with some run support, he should have a very nice season.

No, Wayne, this is what you said:

"No one with baseball knowledge currently considers Nick a star player. Perhaps that will change with the 2011 campaign."

"Perhaps that will change" is not the same as "I hope Nick turns it around." Except on Planet Ur-Wayne-us.

Anyway, Guthrie outpitched David Price, the offense outproduced the Rays, the defense was better than theirs, and we even got a goofy umpire's call to go our way. It's just a shame all of that only gives us one win. But that's a start!

A real joy watching this game tonight. Yes, only 1 of 162, but there seemed to be something different. I wasn't apprehensive in innings 7-9, even after Johnson's groove to Zobrist. Guthrie pitched a gem, nice D, timely hitting.....and no big at bats from Vlad, Reynolds, and Lee. This team IS different. Here's hoping it lasts.

See Guthrie's whip in '10.

That of an 'elite' starting pitcher.

Tonight's performance wasn't a surprise if anyone's been truly watching this guy.

Keep watching... then ask yourselves. Will AM pay up when the time comes? Or will JG be wearing pinstripes, penciled in right behind the big guy?

be nice to beaner. his favorite team lost today.

Nice game! Guthrie... wow. Let's hope that Tillman and Britton can keep things going! Definitely not the start to the season that we were expecting.....

Wayne,

Yes there is a chance he will wear pinstripes, just like guy who threw the first pitch at Yankee Stadium today. Yes, Mike Mussina. That is just painful to watch:

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13342613&c_id=nyy

Since Matusz is going to be down for an extended period it makes sense to bring Britton up and get him in the rotation.

Wayne pretty quick on your feet, all four of them, trying to recover after trashing Markakis just today.

Nice try, trying to stir the pot about Guthrie. But one thing's for sure he's an Oriole this year, not a Yankee.

correction: that was 3/31/11, yesterday.

I totally disagree Meso,

He had a bad year in '09. When looking at 2007, 2008 and 2010 though, he's been very consistent. ERA and WHIP are far truer indicators of a SP than W's, and Guthrie has been stellar 3 of the past 4 years.

Lat year, his WHIP was better than elite starting pitchers like Sebathia, Verlander and the guy he beat tonight, Price.

With a better D, his ERA would have been better and if the team ever scored runs, his W's would have been up their with the best of them.

One game? Hardly. I'm going by the guys body of work last season and 3 of the past 4.

Mark my word, he will be on a contender like the Yanks soon, making 15m+.... and he deserves it.

Wayne,

I don't disagree in principle with what you said, but an ace doesn't have a terrible season like Guthrie had in 09. I will give you that playing for a bad team has 90+% to do with it.

I agree that if Guthrie pitched for the Yankees or the Redsox, he'd at least a nr 2 starter. He can certainly surpass a scrub like AJ Burnett.

Didn't trash Markakis mountain......

When it comes to Nick though, I just refuse to be a homer like some of you.

Nick had a great game tonight. I hope it continues. What I said about last year though is true,

If Nick recovers from last season the way Guthrie recovered last season after '09, then awesome......

Let's hope he does.....

Yes Meso,

That was very, very painful... still is.....

Sounds like it's almost unanimous...Hurry up and sign Guthrie to an extension AM!! A few more of those and we'll be told that we are not able to "afford" him.

Great game for the O's. Tomorrow will be an adventure I think. O's better bring their hitting shoes.

Well needless to say the baseball season is a marathon, but at least for one game it sure is a heck of a better start compared to last year.

And good to see Guthrie continue the high level of performance from last year.

Wayne,

I'm on the Cakes band wagon this year. I predict he will make the all-star team. I agree that he hasn't lived up to his potential, but who could? He played for Dave Trembley. Enough said.

Nobody can hit lefties better than Markakis in the entire MLB. Didn't he have like a 360 average or something crazy like that against lefties?

His defense is stellar. Does he need to hit home runs to be considered elite? Yes. That's the name of the game. With a ton of protection this year, he must deliver.

Meso;

Saying that Guthrie has been inconsistent just doesn't fit the facts. In 3 of the 4 years with us he's had ERAs between 3.6 and 3.8.

True, he had a bad year 2 years ago, but that was the year he went to the World baseball deal. More than a few pitchers who've gone there have had troublesome seasons. Is there a reason for that, or just coincidence? Who knows.

As far as him giving up a league leading number of HRs that year, Shields led the AL last year and you had a fair number of good things to say about him a thread or two back. In fact, Guthrie's ERA over the last 4 years is slightly better than Shields.

Remember too that Guthrie has pitched in the toughest hitting division in the AL, has had generally poor bullpens behind him, and has pitched for one of the worst offensive teams in the league. That puts a lot of pressure on on a pitcher to have to be perfect.

All in all, he's been better than a lot of people give him credit for.

@dan qz,

Agreed. I said the same things to Wayne as well; however when we talk about an Ace, I picture Doc Halladay in Toronto. He got it done pitching for a bad team for years.

To summarize: Doc = Ace, Guthrie = Very good.

Do we agree?

Hey Chris in Hawaii,
Did you see what your boy did tonight?
The Kila Monster

Well I guess the debate about Britton being with the team from the get go was all for naught.

Shall be interesting to see what he does now that it is for real!!

Meso;

Yeah, So far I think that's fair. Let's see what he does with some offensive and defensive support and a decent bullpen. Ask me again at the end of the year.

Just watched my first O's game in over two years (living in Indiana will do that to you) and it was glorious. Gotta love the MLB app on the iPhone.

Halladay is possibly a future HOF'er. I'm not saying Guthrie is one of the best of his generation. But when comparing aces for most teams, (see the whip of pitchers like Verlander, Sebathia, Price, etc... all considered aces), JG's only different because he's been on one of the worst teams in the game since he's been in the bigs.

Very good? Yes, that's fair. Same is true for many of the #1's in the league. Halladay though, along with a couple others, are in a class all of their own.

The thing with Guthrie over the years is his tendency to give up extra base hits. If he can limit those, he can be dominant. Whip will only tell you so much. He's still a #2 pitcher until he can dominate games consistently - like he did tonight. Great outing, let's hope it continues.

Once again, leave it to wayne to throw the "ace" tag on Jeremy Guthrie, comparing our default #1 starter to guys like CC Sabathia and Justin Verlander. Oh, and in typical wayne fashion, the focus is on one statistic: WHIP.

A few more numbers for you, wayner:

How about HR/9? The true ace doesn't give up the gopher ball like Guthrie, who has never posted a HR/9 lower than 1.00 in his career. Sabathia's HR/9 has never been higher than 1.00, and it hasn't topped 0.80 since 2005. Verlander? He hasn't topped 1.00 since 2006, and his HR/9 numbers have been improving on a yearly basis since then.

What about strikeouts? The ace misses bats, doesn't he? When we think about aces, we think about the Pedro Martinezes and the Tim Lincecums and the Roy Halladays of the world. And, incidentally, the CC Sabathias and Justin Verlanders. Guys who routinely top 200 K's. Guthrie's career high K total? 123 in 2007.

Well, if you're not striking out a bunch of guys, your BB/9 numbers need to be damn good, right? Guthrie's are good, but he's never dipped below the 2.0 line and he's never led the league in BB/9.

Speaking of leading the league in something, your garden variety ace is usually a Cy Young candidate, right? The kind of guy who leads the league, or at least comes close to it, in a few categories. Well, Jeremy Guthrie has never led the league in anything. Unless you want to count the dubious honor of leading the league in home runs allowed in 2009...

But let's forget about all of that, because wayne said that Guthrie's a victim of a bad team (more on that later) with a bad defense. Well, how about looking at his numbers taking fielding out of the equation? Fangraphs has a great stat for such a thing: Fielding Independent Pitching, or FIP for short.

Guthrie's career FIP? 4.73. CC Sabathia's? 3.57. Justin Verlander's? 3.61. Hmm...

Now, back to that "victim of a bad team" bit. wayne, over the past year or so, you've led the rant against Nick Markakis, most recently saying something derogatory about fans who think he'll ever be more than than an average ballplayer. Anyone who has tried to point out the flawed team around Markakis and the fact that the guy has had to play a role that he wasn't designed for has received a patented wayne-slap full of wayne-cliches and wayne-patronization.

So, how is it, wayne, that you're giving Jeremy Guthrie, a fine pitcher by all rights, the ace tag and comparing him to studs like CC Sabathia and Justin Verlander, forgiving Guthrie's inadequacies because he's been the victim of a bad team?

Just a thought...

(Editor's Note: I didn't include David Price, the third pitcher that wayne mentioned by name, in my response because Price has just one ace-esque season to his credit.)

(Another Editor's Note: I really like Jeremy Guthrie. I think he's a fine pitcher. A really solid second tier guy who I believe will have a really good season, especially if he can continue to call upon the stuff he had tonight. But he's not an ace.)

Hey Wayne and Meso,
I'm more worried about you two wearing Mussina Yankees jerseys then Guthrie ever wearing one.
What are you too so worried about? Way to take a positive thing like Guthrie, who I agree is an ace, as in he is a #1 pitcher for almost anyone, pitching an excellent game and turning it into one of the most negative things possible.
With more run support than ever, Guthrie should be fantastic and AM and PA may not be the best but they are not complete idiots. Guthrie has slowly become a fan favorite because he is not just an ace, but he is an underdog ace. I don't see him going anywhere.
More important than any of that is having a healthy staff. Heres hoping Matusz has a quick and strong recovery from whatever is ailing him. And heres to Bergesen and the other one the bubble rotation starters taking advantage of opportunities however they come.

@ John The Baptist

There's an App for that?? LOL
Seriously though, if you have Comcast they have a free preview of all baseball games. It would drive me crazy to watch TV on a phone or lap top.

Wayne,
I'm still sticking to the idea that you were the model for the whole Kegacus thing.

Only a horse's behind could respond to a great opening day win by the Orioles by going onto an Orioles fan site and proclaiming Guthrie will be pitching for the Yankees next year.

As for Markakis, he's not a hitter that will carry a lineup, Guerrero is, but he will be an Allstar this year if the guys around him in the lineup stay healthy.

I'm sorry the O's had to burn an extra year of arbitration for Britton, but with Matusz going to be out for an extended period, it was the move to make for this year's club.

Buck and Andy are making it clear that winning now is important. I soppose is Britton pitches well tonight Wayne will be on here reminding us that it's one year sooner the Zack can be wearing pinstrips.

Mountain,

It's Tillman tonight. Britton tomorrow. I'm with you - I wish they had another viable alternative, but they don't. It does seem like an indication that they are truly trying to win this year.

Hey that's the kind of moves that first place teams make...Go Orioles!

not brooks;

I agree with the general thrust of your point in your 2:29am post. I would quibble with one thing though.

There are more than a few guys over the years who have been aces who never struck out many guys. On Oriole teams of the past alone I can think of Palmer, McNally, Cueller and Flanagan, none of whom struck out much more than about 5 per 9IP.

To me, an ace is a guy who eats innings and doesn't give up much however he achieves it. Given that Guthrie has averaged about 6.3 IP per start leaves him out.

He's got a much better bullpen behind him this year as compared to the past which generally helps reduce a starters ERA. If he can extend himself to about 7 IP per start then I think we'd have to consider him, but he hasn't yet.

I seriously have a man crush on you nb......

Yes, whip is only one stat. An important stat mind you, but it's only one. As I picked one to make part of my case, you do the very same thing,

If you noticed... not sure that you learned much about comprehension in school by the way..... but if you read, instead of thinking about what you wanted to say, you would have noticed that I said jeremy would be slotted #2, behind Sebathia.

Did you see where I said #2, behind Sebathia?

It's right there in the post nb....... I say #2, behind Sebathia.

As for other pitchers nb, you just have to look around the league. An ace is suppose to be the #1 on each major league baseball team.

The #1 nb.

Not every team has a Hernandez, Halladay or Sebathia. But many other teams would be happy to have Guthrie as their #1.... And since #1's are considered ace's, Jeremy meets the test.

Because it's you nb, I'm sure Jeremy is excited to hear that you think he's 'a fine pitcher', 'a solid second tier'. When he's wearing pinstripes, making his 15m, and slotted BEHIND Sebathia, he'll be just fine with your expert analysis.

As for Nick...... like I said...... If he can turn around his '10 like Jeremy turned around his '09, then we'll perhaps be talking about the player we all hoped he could be... He's off to a good start.

Yes, Jeremy does the best he can with the players around him. Nick however, becomes the players around him. Unlike other players in the league who have met expectations without stellar line ups around them, Nick hasn't delivered the past two seasons (ah, but those doubles nb).

This year, with better quality around him (until the trade deadline), perhaps he'll step up the way he's expected, given his 10m salary. Let's hope so.

Someone who knows:

I wish I had Comcast. Instead, I'm stuck in a bass ackwards place allows one company to monopolize an area and thus can charge anything they want, instead of allowing competition to keep prices reasonable. Alas, I am stuck with Brighthouse, and as such do not have free previews.

Sad part is, if I lived 5 miles further south, I could have Comcast instead of Brighthouse. Ugh.

Comprehension is so easy when you talk out of both sides of your mouth. He's a 1, he's a 2, he's a 1, he's a 2.... you make enough comments, and you can claim anything and defend yourself no matter what.

So far in his career, Guthrie's proven that he is a solid #2. Could he become an ace? Well, he first would need to reduce the homeruns and doubles - when he gets hit, he gets hit hard. And then, as someone once said here when referring to Matusz, you need to have that 'go to' pitch. Guthrie's fastball is good, but not overwhelming. He mixes speeds very well, but he has yet to have that signature pitch that hitters fear.

For now, he's our 'ace'. If all goes well, he, Britton, Matusz (assuming no more health issues), Arrieta all have good '11 seasons. And then we work on securing them for 3-5 years.

And no one mentioned Lester giving up 5 ER in 5 1/3 IP, 3 HR, and 39 of 88 pitches weren't strikes? No, I don't think this is indicative of his entire season and I do think he is still a very fine pitcher -- maybe even a Cy Young award winner someday -- but the five who came in relief of was led by Albers (yes, that Albers) who was the only one to record three outs out of the bunch. Heck, eight of his 18 pitches were balls, too.

Bard, the heir apparent to Papelbon, gave up a walk, four hits and four runs while getting two outs.

And on a day the Red Sox needed offense -- a lot of offense -- Crawford went 0-for-4 with three strike outs and five men LOB.

Oh, and Wakefield is still alive.

PeteyPablo;

I guess it was the 2009 season that has given seemingly everyone the idea that Guthrie gives up an inordinate number of HRs.

That was the year of the World baseball thing that he went to. A lot of guys have had rough years after attending that for some reason.

Other than that, Guthrie gives up about 1.1 HRs every 9IP. That's ever so slightly high, but you have to remember that he pitches half his games in a park that is HR friendly.

Factor that in and Guthrie is about average. No worse.

PP,

You're a joy my friend...... You're clueless, but I imagine you being the most fun at the party.

:-)

I picked one stat to make my case, wayne? Really? Let's see...

I used HR/9, strikeouts, walks, FIP and talked about league leading statistics as well, of which Guthrie has never had.

Next...

I never said that you said Guthrie is better than Sabathia, or that you said Guthrie would be the #1 starter for the Yankees. Just that it's ridiculous to compare Guthrie to Sabathia, because there's really no comparison.

Either way, despite the fact that you never said Guthrie is as good as or better than Sabathia, you suggested such a thing, using your one stat to back yourself up:

"Lat year, his WHIP was better than elite starting pitchers like Sebathia, Verlander..."

"But when comparing aces for most teams, (see the whip of pitchers like Verlander, Sebathia, Price, etc... all considered aces), JG's only different because he's been on one of the worst teams in the game since he's been in the bigs."

Finally...

There's a difference between a default #1 starter and an ace. Case in point: I have no idea who pitched for the Royals on Opening Day, but I'm pretty sure that there isn't a team in baseball who would take him over their Opening Day starter.

Hey wayne,
Did you get that jersey yet? You could probably special order a Guthrie yankees jersey since you want it so bad.