Wow Buck! For real?! Why don't you ask the question:

Why doesn't Angelos fork over 150 million a year and let's see what the O's can do?

So now if you win by spending money, somehow that doesn't count?!

So to level the field the US should fight terroritst with knifes and molotov cocktails?

C'mon Buck!

I'm starting to hate Baltimore fans. Every single article is an excuse for someone to bitch and moan about something.

Thank god Buck is trying to change the attitude, hopefully some fans start to take notice as well.

I like it! Not that this O's team seems capable of winning more than about 80 games, but a .500 record with some swagger is infinitely preferable to the complacent doormats we've been looking at for a dozen years.

Last time I checked everyone seems to abide by some sort of budget except the yankees and red sox...what if Angelos forked out that money, would you like to pay the absurd ticket prices they do in boston and new york to accomodate?

Wow, I see how you have a problem with some of readers. Mesotheliangelos had the entire point of your entry fly over his head. Thanks Pete for keeping us up to date.

@NB,

You can buy a ticket for $25 or $2,500 at yankee stadium, so let's debunk that myth. And yes I would pay more money to see a competitive sports team. I already do at Ravens games. If I wanted to watch baseball just to shoot the crap, I'd go watch the Baysox or the Keys.

It's always been easy to spend money that isn't yours.

I love it! What I think is funny is how the sports press takes anything anyone says about anyone and turns it into a “rip” or a “burn.” That criticism of Jeter has been going on for years and he’s right about Epstein (not pronounced Einstein). Of course the Yankees and Red Sox are going to get better players. What free agent in his right mind wouldn’t want to go to a perennial contender with bottomless pockets? These were not vitriolic statements. Having said that, Buck had to know the press would twist his words as they have. Sports journalists have to make money in the offseason, too. If anything, this is an indictment on them. For shame. Go Buck! And Go Os!

Absolutely it means nothing when you buy pennants. Baseball ceased being a sport a long time ago. They might as well put the pennant up for bid on Ebay and publish the results in the Wall Street Journal. It certainly doesn't belong on the sports page. Go Buck.

The Orioles have never won by being the richest team in the league. They have won more than once by being the smartest, the hardest working, and the most fearless team in the league. As we used to say at Terps Basketball games, Don't "Mess" with Buck!

Go get 'em Buck! Create the culture that we're coming to play. DT's approach was to whine about the disparity of payroll and talent--effectively 1) giving his players a lack of no confidence and 2) creating the expectation of losing. The payroll is what it is. If the young pitching staff progresses and the club demonstrates improvement, attendance will rise and just maybe so too will the payroll.

Pete,

For the dude on your last subject that wanted us to bolt to another site, don't worry buddy.....

Like in the movie The Hangover Pete...

'We're the best blog friends that anyone could have,
and we're the best blog friends that anyone could have,
and we're the best blog friends that anyone could have
and we'll never ever, ever
ever
ever
ever
leave each other......'

It must kill him every time the Sox come to Camden Yards (AKA Boston's second home) and get bigger cheers from the crowd.

Just another in a long list of reasons to love Buck Showalter.

The guy brings the attitude.

It reminds me of the swagger Billick first brought to the Ravens.

You have to expect to win before you actually do. Of course having players to execute is important but let's take baby steps.

I can remember saying to a friend years ago after the Rays had a huge Spring Training brawl with the Yankees - "They will compete this year."

They've been contenders ever since.

Well, we know what happens when the Os manager shows the Yankees and BoSox respect. Might as well give this new approach a try. I believe the players will have Buck's back.

Next, Buck needs to challenge the Os fans to show up vs these two teams - sick of the away games the series vs the Yankees and BoSox have turned into at Camden Yards.

@ Corey,

The press hasn't twisted anyone's words. Buck said what he said, knew it would be printed and will stand by his comments. They're fighting words and he expects his players to follow him into battle. It's brilliant psychological warfare and I love it! Win or lose, it will be a fun season and I expect the Os to compete to the final out each night because Buck will settle for nothing less. Go Os!

There you go again Mesotheliangelos (Brummie) telling the world how smart you are (yeah right).

I think you should move to Hartford and follow minor league baseball. When Mr. Angelos pass away in the next 25 years, his sons will take over the ball club.

Allow Buck to motivate, educate, and translate his beliefs for the betterment of this team. Now go away Clown.

VPutin has spoken!

There you go again Mesotheliangelos (Brummie) telling the world how smart you are (yeah right).

I think you should move to Hartford and follow minor league baseball. When Mr. Angelos pass away in the next 25 years, his sons will take over the ball club.

Allow Buck to motivate, educate, and translate his beliefs for the betterment of this team. Now go away Clown.

VPutin has spoken!

@ Corey,

The press hasn't twisted anyone's words. Buck said what he said, knew it would be printed and will stand by his comments. They're fighting words and he expects his players to follow him into battle. It's brilliant psychological warfare and I love it! Win or lose, it will be a fun season and I expect the Os to compete to the final out each night because Buck will settle for nothing less. Go Os!

There you go again Mesotheliangelos (Brummie) telling the world how smart you are (yeah right).

I think you should move to Hartford and follow minor league baseball. When Mr. Angelos pass away in the next 25 years, his sons will take over the ball club.

Allow Buck to motivate, educate, and translate his beliefs for the betterment of this team. Now go away Clown.

VPutin has spoken!

I'm with Buck.

I'd love to see what Epstein or Cashman could do without an unlimited budget. Make it a reality show. "See what happens when deep-pocketed GM's lose all of their money and start getting real. The Real World: MLB." That's a reality show I would watch.

@Mesotheliangelos - So, $2500 isn't an absurd ticket price. Thanks for debunking the myth!

I actually saw a sanctioned MLB Orioles shirt that said, "Don't make excuses. We're just better"

A bit cocky for a team that hasn't played a game yet. Let's see who would where that shirt in Sept. if they are 61-80.

Mes,

You seem to not understand the psychology of motivating you're team and fan's.

BTW, which team won AL East pennant last year? And what was their budget?

The O's drastically increased their budget from 2010, and once again, it's not enough as long as someone else spends more than the O's for Mes....

150 Million, Mes, and then you'll be a fan for more than 60 seconds?

You sure it's not 151 Million payroll?

Not 149 Million. But 150 Million, and then the O's will win, huh. Got the science to back that up? Thought so.

If anyone can't see the parallels between what Showwalter is trying to do and how Billick changed the culture of the Ravens when he arrived in Baltimore, you either aren't paying attention or have been brain-washed by the media into thinking Billick was somehow not deserving of his position. When Billick came to town, the Ravens were still "the stolen Cleveland Browns" who had not had a winning season in their three years of existence and were routinely ridiculed by the national media. Being a Raven fan then was not a lot of fun (something that people who jumped on the bandwagon in 2000 will never understand). Billick went of the offensive, targeting the Jags and Titans (tops in the division at the time) and publicly saying the refs would help the Browns upon their return to the league. He gave the team -- and us -- a swagger that led all the way to a Super Bowl.

Not saying Buck will lead the O's to the WS in his second season, but he's putting his neck out there and sticking up for the O's and Baltimore. It's finally time to be an Orioles fan again.

VPutin - "When Mr. Angelos pass away in the next 25 years, his sons will take over the ball club."

That is the scariest thought Oriole fans should have. Have you ever met his sons and know about their baseball decision making in the business side?

By the way. Angelos is 81, If he lives 25 years, well you do the math. Rethink your time limit.

I was flipping through this issue on the toilet when I got to the Buck article. I didn't know it was in there; I'm grateful for the subscription now... I started laughing and my girlfriend asked me if I was alright. I love the shots at the rivals.

I love Buck. He makes me proud to be an Orioles fan, and let's face it, this team hasn't been to good for that lately. It's obvious he's trying to rouse us fans (and the team) into buying it, into coming to the games en masse when they play the Royals and the Indians and also the Yankees and Red Sox. I'm buying it. I've renewed my 13-game plan and I'm purchasing a weekday plan. I'll be there when they shock the world. And most of my optimism is because of Buck Showalter.

@Ken Francis,

I also said there are seats at Yankee stadium that cost $25. That's debunking the myth. I feel sorry for you I had to explain the obvious again.

@ the rest of you orgasmic over some fighting words,

Gaddaffi is talking a good game and inspiring his troops to fight his enemies; however that means squat about his prospect of actually winning the war. His words actually sound ridiculous.

That's how Buck sounds (ridiculous), when he has fighting words for the teams that will hand his behind to him. It's one thing to talk the talk and another to walk the walk. And by the looks of it, this team of one year rentals will walk very slowly, but the manager is a fast talker.

Baseball is not a like football where you have to fire people up.

Buck is correct. Broadcasting revenue is the reason Boston and New York can spend more. If a 30 second commercial in New York costs thousands, the same 30 second commercial in Baltimore and Pittsburgh costs hundreds. It comes down to cost per rating point. Market #1 New York is twice the size of Market #2 L.A. How much bigger is New York than Cleveland. I'm not sure the Yankees would have to sell a ticket to a game and could still make money. A Yankee fan recently told me it is just that the Yanks have the formula. I agree. They have the formula ( $ ).

@Mesotheliangelos

You're proving yourself wrong. The cheapest Yankee ticket is $25.

The cheapest Oriole ticket is $9.

That's a $16 dollar difference. I'm sure the disparity is just as prevalent among more expensive seat sections. A fact that can easily be assumed by the $2500 seats that the Yankees have available.

Take that disparity into account over a span of 80 games and you're looking at a huge difference in income generated through attendance.

wayne. That was the funniest blog piece I've seen in forever. You made me laugh and I had to write in for the first time in a long time. In a blog full of dreebs, your pieces are a breath of fresh air. The res of you. It's a baseball blog. lighten up. The orioles sucked last year, and they'll suck this year. At least you should have some fun with it.

I see Buck's comments as sour grapes. It's like the coach of an AA High School complaining about trying to compete against an AAAA high school, because the larger school has a lot more kids that try out for the team and more to choose from every spring. I think Buck should just shut up and show us what a genius he is this year by winning the wild card with his small market team.

Buck's just telling it like it is. All these Sox and Yanks fans are just bitter because they're incapable of understanding that you can't buy respect, just trophies. Might as well melt a bunch of gold into a pennant yourself if it's all that matters. The Orioles may suck but at least I'm a fan of one of the 28 teams that can actually EARN a championship.

Buck has alot of Earl in him.
If nothing else this year will be fun.
Baseball is truly a broken sport and will remain so.

@wayne: I agree with the other posters here. That was hilarious. And creepy.

I have decided that I tend to gauge my enthusiasm for the Orioles by how likely it is that someone on the club runs out a grounder. Remember Tejada? Good player, but the guy could probably pack a bag of chips with him it took him so long to get to first base on a ball to the infield. Now - well, I don't think that anyone will lollygag their way to first to then face Buck's withering gaze.

I think that's why I've decided to care for the first time in a while. When you expect to win night after night, the odds are much better it will actually happen. I think that's what Buck brings - maybe one guy a night gets to a ball in the outfield he wouldn't have otherwise. Or lays down a bunt that gets someone to third when just a little less concentration keeps the guy at second. Attitude gets you better concentration, which gets you better execution in the little things, which get you more wins in the long run. At the very least, you're in the fight with the elite clubs every night.

Go baltimore yeeehhhhaaaa lol

Go baltimore yeeehhhhaaaa lol

Props to Buck. I think the world is allowed to have some fun at the Yankees' and Red Sox' expense--they've got plenty to go around! Honestly, those two teams should be able to brush off this kind of criticism like a speck of lint on a Hawaiian shirt.

Never thought I'd say this, but props to Wayne for not taking this opportunity to bash Buck for speaking out.

Meso and Gil, is it significant at all that even Buck, savior of the Oriole world, is now incurring your wrath? Ever want to check that stuff?

Attitude is important in any sport. If you go out expecting to lose, you will be correct most of the time. The most amazing thing about last season was not just that Buck turned around a losing club, but that he did it during the part of the season that past O's teams have always just coasted through, playing like they were half asleep and expecting to lose. Baltimore baseball was actually interesting down the last month of the season even after it was clear they'd never reach .500 or rise beyond 5th place. Why? Because they never quit on a game. You couldn't just go to bed once they got down by a run in the 6th knowing they'd never come back. They refused to roll over for anybody despite being long out of the race. How anyone could watch what happened to this team last season and not understand the power of attitude is beyond me.
Buck obviously understands it as well. It isn't all you need, but it is indispensable.

@Brooksie

Sometimes we agree, other times we don't agree. Today we don't agree.

I'm with Buck.
I'd love to see what Epstein or Cashman could do without an unlimited budget. Make it a reality show. "See what happens when deep-pocketed GM's lose all of their money and start getting real. The Real World: MLB." That's a reality show I would watch.

To me Buck should be worried about how successful the O's 2011 free agent are, not about what some other team is doing or has done. I would be worried about Kevin Gregg and how he's going to do. Or what a brilliant choice it was to sign the "Duke". Anyway, the long and short of this I would rather have Buck do what Jim Leyland did when he was first hired by the Tigers and he held a press conference after a game and he was screaming about "Losing" is unacceptable or something along those lines. I haven't the foggiest notion as to why Buck felt the need to point out Theo. Buck come on man, let’s find a different way to rally the troops. Worry about the O's and only the O's to heck with everyone else. I don't care what their credit limit is on their credit card!
I care about the players we have and playing up to their capability! That is what you’re your focus should be!

Second the props to Buck! Nice to see some attitude.

Thank God he's not listening to clowns like Meso who would prefer that he admit his shortcomings, kiss the rings and cower in the corner. But you really are a fan right? No, really.

How anyone thinks Wayne's quote was funny is beyond me. There was zero wit in his posting which, as usual, displayed little more than his trademark empty-headed arrogance. Like his equally awkward Springsteen rant, watching Wayne toss around lame pop culture references in a futile attempt to show relevance and edginess is just uncomfortable to watch! Back to the basement Junior.

Go Birds.

Good managers bring the fight to the opposition, Buck is doing that. Remember in '05 when the O's were in first entering June? Mazzili was bringing the fight to the opposition, unfortunately, he also couldn't control his team and had some poor talent over playing at that point.

Also...about the "Angelos dying eventually thing"...all I have to say, it I hope and pray he doesn't turn into east coast Al Davis...

Not for nothing, as a diehard O's fan living in Charlotte, NC( I get MASN-yeah) but from Nova, I can say that all of these things go hand in hand. It's called entitlement. The Yanks are miffed when a cliff lee doesn't want to sign with them and take the most money. Those creeps are still not over Griffey not wanting to play there.. But entitlment means you expect to sign the best players, you expect to charge the most for everything and you expect to win. Until the O's or any team get a sense of that entitlement, they will not compete on that level. like someone pointed out, thats todays baseball.... The O's went out and spent alittle more money for better players. They went and finally got a real major league manager and they get the entitlement of being better for doing so. The fans will come and the money will be spent and made if the other two entitlments keep up. Expect to win ,expect the front office to compete and the fans and entitlements will rise as well. GO O"S looking forward to a fun season

Gil and Meso,

You guys (as I) both like Buck.... I know you do....

BUT

I'm sure you both realize that what you've said is just too much for apologist to comprehend... I don't want to say it's over their head but....

Yeah, I guess I am saying that.

Just know that with each negative post you've received on this subject, you made your point even better than you originally realized.

I wish the Sun would add a rating system (like Amazon has) to comments so we could give the o' so original "Mesotheliangelos" (NOT!) his due, but they would have to allow a ZERO rating to be entered.

I wish the Sun would add a rating system (like Amazon has) to comments so we could give the o' so original "Mesotheliangelos" (NOT!) his due, but they would have to allow a ZERO rating to be entered.

Bill,

Did you come up with that on your own? I hope so. Cause if someone helped you, there are two really boring, unfunny people in this world.

@Mesotheliangelos - Sorry, Messy, you debunked nothing, because $25 is an absurd ticket price for the worst seats in the house. $2500? That's way beyond absurd. Even diehard Yankee fans silently voiced their protest last season by the large number of empty seats behind home plate.

Jim66,

Here ya go buddy...

:-)

:-)

:-)

I just can't stop smiling at you..... Imagine me sitting across from you... just covering you with nothing but smiles.

See, Someone loves you my friend.

Yeah, you talk all the smack you want Buck. It's funny you didn't talk about payroll while you managed the Yankees. Oh yeah, they won the world series AFTER you got fired. We'll let our play do the talking after we clean your clocks on the field!

It's about time.

I am so sick and tired of Camden being the doormat for the Red Sox. I want Buck and the O's fans to make it as inhospitable as possible for them... this is a good start. I also like the video of Adam Jones calling out fraud-pink hat fairweather red sox fans. I hope Oriole fans follow.
The O's are attempting to take it back and the fans play a part in that. Come on O's fans!!!!

r3volution11,

I didn't actually call the Yankees box office, so I don't know what the lowest ticket price is. However I'd pay $100 a game to watch a ball club with 27 World Series titles. But that's just me. I care about winning. I have offered free tickets ( my boss at work) to O's games just a few rows behind the O's dugout, a few times, and I've refused them. I didn't feel like the franchise did enough to earn my support.

@wayne,

Of course I support Buck. I'm on record about that. He is a great baseball mind and very good man. I'm thrilled he is our manager. But when I think he is wrong, I'm gonna call him out.

Rex Ryan's team can cash checks he writes; however I'm not sure Buck's O's can.

wayne,
i have pretty much refrained from posting, and if i have, i have not addressed you directly on any topic.
it's a waste of energy quite frankly.

i thought your posts about me being some kind of angry old guy was pretty funny, considering that you were directing your posts to someone other than me, but who you mistakenly thought was me.
Talk about obsessed.

To be honest, your last post directed at me was creepy to say the least. See if you can't cut it out.

Anyway, I do find your circular logic less than fascinating. Your penchant for defending your arguments by saying, in essence, that 'people just don't get you (or others you put into your little group)because you're too smart is comical.
Although I must say, claiming that a rebuttal of someone's opinion, in and of itself can be used to strengthen someon'e opinion, well that's a new take on discussion and debate.
And this entire 'us against them' thing you have going, kinda sounds like Buck against the Sox.

Keep smiling. Just not at me.

@Gil,

We obviously agree; however you confused me with Buck managing a small market team comment. I thought Buck was managing the O's and not the Rays! It's that thing you said earlier about the lies. The more you repeat a lie, the bigger it gets, and more people believe it. We've been told the O's are a small market team for years. That can't be far from the truth.

just thought i'd set the record straight

Meso/Wayne/Gil -

I'd like to see what Cashman and Espein could do with a salary cap. Really, I would. Wouldn't you?

Now, that doesn't mean that it would "level the playing field", or make AM look any better - it would just force to see how clever they really are with limited resources. A $151 million payroll (or close to it) would be fine for the O's, but then again, it isn't for the Mets or Cubs. I'm all for SMART spending though.

Anyway, NY and Boston does what's best for them and they obviously have a "plan" other than spend, spend, spend. Espein definately has the upper hand for the short-term with a better rotation and a better lineup mixed with both young and old, expensive and inexpensive - something AM could take notes on.

The Yankees, well, "pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered" as they say on the open market. They had a great 15 year run and I'm sure they'll be back on top sooner than the Orioles. But signing multiple 30 year old players to 6-10 year deals and 35+ year olds to 3+ years at any value is just stupid in the long run. I think most of the GM's in MLB took notes on that.

Even with NY's $200 million payroll, they might be in 2nd place, barely, but I think they'll be hard pressed to take the wild card or even 90 wins.

Buck wouldn't do this unless he felt he had the players to back him up, which he does,
We did take it to the Red Sox the end of last year.....They had trouble playing .500 against that awful team....What are they going to do this year??...we'll see
This is pretty cool...
Now Wayne Gil and Meso don't like Buck either...
Of course weather any of those are actually O's fans is another matter also
Oh Boy....Now I have to start defending Buck at every turn too??
I'm turning that over to the capable hands of dan or Ken or Paulie...

I have my hands full giving props to Uncle Andy at every turn

"That's how Buck sounds (ridiculous), when he has fighting words for the teams that will hand his behind to him. It's one thing to talk the talk and another to walk the walk. And by the looks of it, this team of one year rentals will walk very slowly, but the manager is a fast talker."

--Mes.

Let's go to the facts!!! How'd Buck's O's do against AL Beast opponents in August and September of 2010?

Yankees: 3 wins, 3 losses.
Red Sox: 3 wins, 3 losses.
Rays: 3 wins, 3 losses.

That's walking the walk with Ty Wiggington batting 3rd. Now Buck has Derrek Lee batting 3rd.

Which team won the 2010 AL East pennant and what was their payroll? (and to make you feel better, the Orioles payroll is GREATER than the 2010 AL East champions.)

Talent wins every time. Money wins some of the time.

Who's the highest paid member of the World Series champion Giants? Was he on the World Series roster?

"MLB Tonight" just had a segment on Buck's comments.

And yeah, they supported Buck.

That's a $16 dollar difference. I'm sure the disparity is just as prevalent among more expensive seat sections. A fact that can easily be assumed by the $2500 seats that the Yankees have available.

Take that disparity into account over a span of 80 games and you're looking at a huge difference in income generated through attendance.

Posted by: r3volution11
-------
That is called supply and demand

smitty,

Of course I like Buck, but I think his comments were self serving and an attempt to cover his a** when he gets his brains beat in this year by the Yankees and the Red Sox. The great one, the legendary two rings from the Pliocene era, Andy by God Macphail, said basically the same thing last year in an interview with the USA today. I say it's time for both Andy and Buck to stop whining and start winning. Either that or convince the Angelos family to invest more of their class action fortune into the team and try to buy a pennant, like the Yankees and the Red Sox do annually.

"his comments were self serving and an attempt to cover his a** when he gets his brains beat in this year by the Yankees and the Red Sox."
Gil

So they couldn't do this last year after he took over (.500) but now that the O's are much improved Buck is trying to cover his....

Wow, take a walk or something...You truly have no idea what you are talking about...with all due respect

He used to manage the Yankees, right? Probably wasn't complaining about other teams back then.

Did I miss something?

The only thing Buck has done is win with the Orioles.

Buck is a winner.

Now Buck has better players. So I totally understand how the nay-sayers have concluded Buck will loose.

Buck can win with bad players.

But Andy screwed Buck by getting better players.

Damn you Andy!!!

@ Rafe.

History lesson: when Buck was managing the Yankees, they sucked. He made them win against the might Orioles and Blue Jays. And then Stienbrenner was allowed back into MLB from his suspension and fired Buck for winning against the AL East.

He's not whining, he's setting the tone for the season. I dont think Buck cares whether Derek Lee or me is playing first base, he's writing a check and will hope his team can cash it...chances are, they wont. However, what player doesnt want his coach to talk like that as opposed to something wishy washy?

ANd, I too would like to see what these genius GMs would do without an almost unlimited payroll.

smitty;

The line I liked the most from the article about Buck was, "He began by saying that Orioles’ owner Peter Angelos had been gracious and supportive thus far, even offering to spend on big-ticket stars."

That's encouraging. If Buck can get the O's headed in the right direction in the win column and Baltimore becomes an attractive place to be, then PA is willing to spend some big $.

Paulie/smitty,

Gil, me and others are not discounting what Buck can do as a manager, or his baseball knowledge or his attitude. The fact is that even Rex Ryan of the Jets who has a team that can back s**t up sounded ridiculous with the "kissing rings" speech.

Now, take Buck's Orioles and try to rationalize how ridiculous it sounds that he will beat the crap out of the Yankees and the Redsox. If you don't see that, I don't know how to explain it to you. There is not ONE baseball mind that would pick the O's to finish ahead of the Yankees or the Redsox. That's just ridiculous. The two of you should be arrested for just thinking that.

What Buck did last year was commendable and deserving of praise; however that's no more than the caffeine effect of the coffee in the morning that wears out by lunch time. Can that team do that over 162 games with a team of one year rentals and other injury prone veterans?

Talent = money as in Crawford = Big Payday. So how exactly will the less talented team (O's) will finish ahead of talent galore (Yankee, Redsox)?

No, we're not naysayers. We're just realists. We want the team to succeed and will enjoy watching every minute of their success in the future; however we are wise enough to temper our expectations.

smitty
your posts continue to support my contention that the praise be Andy spin team is in defense mode 24/7. The bottom line is that your CLOSE relative has produced nothing other than trophy Buck to claim anything. Andy is a loser in Baltimore smitty. And I know that fact is very difficult for you to handle But continue to tell us what a mess he inherited and that someday, somehow the Orioles will be a winner again. Hey, I'm all for it, just cut the crap. It is what it is. And what it is under Andy has not been pretty.

Meso,
I know you aren't supposed to insult personally on these blogs, but you are tempting me.
Talk about Tampa Bay and what they have done once in a while. Or what the Giants did, there are other teams besides the Yankees and RedSoxs in the game of baseball.

Hey 66,

:-)

Just felt you needed that my friend.

Anyone who supports AM is a relative.

That's what I believe, I'm never wrong, therefore it has to be true.

Wayne agrees with me, wayne is never wrong, therefore it must be true.

nice to hear--Buck said those things knowing we'll probably still get our @$$e$ kicked, but it's better than gettin' 'em kicked and taking it like cowering dogs---kinda like our home "fans" at Camden Yards...civil, docile, tame, courteous, pu----s. At Memorial Stadium, Yankee fans and Red Sox fans( yeah even j@ck@$$ Red Sox fans of the 70's whose teams routinely sucked or choked) had a presence moreso than other teams, but they never, EVER out-rooted or out-shouted Orioles fans--didn't happen. Different times, different animals. Here's our big chance though--since local people are too embarrassed
to go root for their team when times are tough and vocally support them, there' s plenty of seats. Take 'em back from the uber-civilized, brie-eating, yuppie, wanna-be business types, and put your "real fans" ass in that seat and encourage these guys for once, and take back our damned ballpark! Get off your hands and cheer---loud! Don't wait for that canned crap from the scoreboard to prompt you into cheering--start one---and for Baltimore's sake---BOO the other team! and for all of you out there that think it's over because the other team has more stars and more money(I gotta agree it usually looks bad)---obviously you weren't someone on any team in any sport that could be counted on....probably just a fantasy 'player'...there's a reason they play 'em y'know...so you just stay in Mom's basement Garth, and leave the playing and cheering to the people with guts.

@G2,

Am I missing something? I am tempting you?! Having a bad day there dude? Fire away if it makes you feel better. That's what the internet is for. Is not like you're saying to my face, right? We're all Arnold Schwarzeneggers behind our IP address aren't we?

You're such a hardass, Meso. You seriously scare me.

"not discounting what Buck can do as a manager, or his baseball knowledge or his attitude."

"There is not ONE baseball mind that would pick the O's to finish ahead of the Yankees or the Redsox. That's just ridiculous. The two of you should be arrested for just thinking that. "
uhh meso...
Wouldn't that make 3 arrests if you include Buck? Isn't he ONE baseball mind?
Oh and Andy and everyone on the O's roster....better bring a big paddy wagon.
There are more of us than you think....dododododod ( cue theme from the Twilight Zone

Gil, I admit you are right. The organization Andy inherited was top notch top to bottom. Great minor league system...Great scouting....well above average Major League roster....Great spring training site...Just a cream of the crop Organization from top to bottom. Now I see why they should have started winning by 2008 or 2009 at the latest.
You win man, Andy wanted to lose for a couple (4 now) years because he just wanted to collect a paycheck and be commissioner. I am happy you straightened me out on this.

@Chris - Since 1954, the Orioles have played in 6 World Series; the Red Sox played in 5. The Orioles have won 3 of those 6, and the Red Sox have won 2 of their 5. I suggest you read the Baseball Digest and quit obsessing over your recency bias for the Red Sox. The worm is about to turn, my friend. Just imagine how your fictitious fanbase will shrink when all of the women stop donning that baseball cap as the latest fad.

@Chris - Since 1954, the Orioles have played in 6 World Series; the Red Sox played in 5. The Orioles have won 3 of those 6, and the Red Sox have won 2 of their 5. I suggest you read the Baseball Digest and quit obsessing over your recency bias for the Red Sox. The worm is about to turn, my friend. Just imagine how your fictitious fanbase will shrink when all of the women stop donning that baseball cap as the latest fad.

If were all Arnold Schwarzeneggers behind our IP addresses then I claim first rights to be Arnold of 25 years ago!!!

;-}

@smitty,

"Maybe it is envy or something on my part," Showalter said. "But obviously, you all know what I think of Derek and the success the Red Sox have had. Hopefully, we can get to their level one day."

Does that last part tell you he thinks he will beat them this year? No, he doesn't get arrested because he is smarter than you.

As far as 2007, 2008, and 2009. OK ... I'll give you the "rebuilding BS". Wasn't 2010 about wins and losses? Yes, it was. We don't really know what 2011 is about. Andy hasn't said what 2011 is all about. In the end it will be:

20xx wasn't about wins and losses. Right now the tune is: We can't compete with the Yannkees and the Redsox. I thought we wanted to be like Tampa. Didn't they compete with Yankees and the Redsox?

It's hard to be optimistic when your GM and manager are already telling you what the end result is.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/03/showalters_comments_on_mens_he.html

Don't mind Buck talking the talk, but it will mean about as much as a fart in the wind if its another losing season...

Here's to winning the season series against either the Yankees or the Redsoxs and not being swept even once by either of them.
Now let's stop talking about those teams. Thanks Meso! I feel better now.

Who beats the Yankees and the Sox and their huge payrolls?

I'll tell you who, Earl Weaver.

Think Buck Showalter isn't trying to cast himself in the same light as Earl with Baltimore fans? Baltimore fans have always been known for their fiestiness. In recent years we've seen our team not only get beat, but not give effort.

Those days are over...

Buck threw down a couple of markers, did a godd job yesterday laughing them off, but he didn't retract them either.

Jeter is the best, of the best, of taking away the inside corner of the plate. Crowd him and he jumps back like the ball's 6" off the plate. Buck threw down a marker, our young hardthrowers are coming in there. No more giving Jeter 1/2 the plate and trying to paint picture perfect pitches to the outside corner.

Jeter doesn't have the bat speed he once did. Buck's telling his young pitchers that's where you get him out.
He's telling Jeter and everybody else Jeter's diving out on pitches on the black cause he can't handle them. Look for some interesting battles when Jeter's at the plate. I'd expect Buck to get pitched and give a real "Son of Earl" performance over balls and strikes with the Yankees.

Jeter sets the tone at the plate, bucks just saying "we ain't humming your tune in Baltimore...

Buck's playing with the Sox's heads. When your going to compete with somebody you've got to let them know you really enjoy beating them. Think Buck wasn't throwing down a marker to the O's fans too?

No more of this Fenway South stuff. I'm going to beat these guys and love doing it. And it's a whole lot more fun in front of a park full of O' fans.

Bucks telling the Yankees and the Sox he will compete with them and he's telling the O's fans that he wants to turn Camdem into that fiesty "ball of a ballyard" that O's fans made Memorial Stadium back in the late 70's and early 80's.

The O's used to fill Camden up every night, but some where they lost that fiesty competitive edge that the Earl brought to his teams.

It's Back!

Here's an idea Peter, why don't you take another vacation? Maybe you can think about something worthwhile to write about?

As a long time Os fan now living out of town-I LOVE it...get some fire and spark back and get (and keep) the team and fan base pumped up. Liked Buck before-love him now

As a long time Os fan now living out of town-I LOVE it...get some fire and spark back and get (and keep) the team and fan base pumped up. Liked Buck before-love him now

I love a board where people are predictable and no one ever lets you down. Let's have a rousing three cheers for -- CONSISTENCY!

Here's some facts for you all:
1. Buck Showalter is a feisty, smart, demanding, opinionated SOB who motivates players not by being Phil "I'm going to manipulate you with my Zen intelligence" Jackson, but with his fearless, lead-with-the-chin, tell-it-like-it-is, personality. Why did Steinbrenner fire him? Because there was only one top dog in New York and it wasn't gonna be Buck.
2. Buck took this job because a) he saw potential in the young core, b) he got assurances that the Angelos/MacPhail wallet would open a little bit, and c) he loves a challenge - he's a competitive guy.
3. MacPhail haters-- who hired Buck? Sorry - didn't quite hear that - can you speak up please? You're gonna support Buck and still bash Andy? Really? You think Buck would've come here if he thought that Andy was the worst GM in baseball as all you haters like to go on and on and on and on and on and on about? You think Andy would've hired Buck if he really has a secret agenda to gut and destroy whatever is left of the once-vaunted O's legacy?
4. Let's go to my favorite topic, shall we? I began posting here because I wanted to make the point that there's a new Sheriff in town named Buck. That he understands the purpose of Spring Training and he understands when games count and when they don't and the players understand who exactly is in charge here. Why do I bring this up? Look at last night's line-up. BRob, DLee. Both healthy, both in the line-up, both productive. All Spring, all of you, even reporters like Jeff and Peter who should know better, have been sounding the "here-we-go-again" alarm about broken down players, injuries, MacPhail's to blame, BRob's washed up, etc. But here's the facts of what happened: BRob wasn't ALLOWED to make the decisions in ST that he made last year, i.e. Buck wouldn't ALLOW him to play through pain because there was a chance that a sore neck or a tight back would ESCALATE into something more and something worse. When BRob dove head first into first a few weeks ago, Buck YANKED HIS CHAIN and sat him down. Why? Because Buck doesn't appreciate a gamer? No. Because Buck insists that his job is to protect his players in ST, even if that means protecting his players from themselves. Buck knows how BRob is. He saw BRob give himself a concussion last year over a strike out. So Buck YANKS HIS CHAIN and essentially tells him that he's gonna manage him. That's what a manager does. Now let's look at DLee. Everyone panicked because DLee wasn't playing. It's called REHAB people! And if you push through any kind of discomfort too soon, than you risk aggravating and making things worse. So Buck held DLee back. And, in the meanwhile, looked at his other first base options all Spring - which is what ST is for !!!!! So, Buck is prepared for contingencies. So Buck has a Plan B, C, D and E.
5. Which haters on this board commented about the fact that both BRob and DLee were in the line-up last night? Don't be shy. Speak up. No one? Really? Which haters are commenting about how Buck has handled the oft injured Duke and Koji this Spring? Sorry? Can't hear you.
6. Does any of this mean that the O's will have an injury free year and will make the playoffs? Of course not. And yes, haters, don't worry, over the course of this season I guarantee you at least 65 opportunities to bash the Birds even if they somehow have a 100 victory season (and I'm not predicting that anyone in baseball will have a 100 win season). What it does mean is that you have an owner who spent money, a GM who went and got the best manager in baseball for turning a losing culture into a winning culture, a GM who stock-piled arms in a farm system that we are all hoping will mature successfully together (and don't bring up these absurd comparisons about the fact that we drafted Billy Rowell instead of Tim Lincicum - as though only idiot GMs can't predict to an absolute certainty who will and who will not have an HOF career when they are 17 years old), a GM who went out and got veteran bats and power bats to complement the young core, and a Manager who actually gets pissed off when he doesn't win. A Manager who actually has the ability and the credibility to get under Derek Jeter's skin. Or tweak Theo Epstein - which, by the way, for all of you AM haters out there, I read as a defense of AM, not just a calling out of Theo Epstein.
7. Final fact and summation: Buck's presence does not guarantee anything except that 13 years in the wilderness is over. No excuses. No "don't worry about those three HRs in the 1st inning Jake, you made up for it by throwing well the next three innings..." (You don't think that JA didn't feel a little bit of Buck's displeasure when he got to the dugout after the 1st inning last night?) No "good enough is good enough."

I can't wait to see what happens this year. Because, whatever happens, it'll be a helluva lot more fun than the last decade and a half. And don't worry haters, you'll still have plenty of reasons to second-guess and panic and beat up on PA and AM. And, if by some miracle you don't, I don't expect you to eat crow. I expect you to head on over and become an ill-informed fan of the Mariners or the Pirates or the Royals or the Nats.

Sorry for being long-winded (I don't post often, so when I do I have a lot to get off my chest) - but I also would be remiss if I didn't talk about Vladdy and Mark Reynolds. I think it's CRAZY that Vladdy was available on the FA market. And I still get a kick out of remembering the haters who were in an uproar about PA and AM "bidding against themselves" and spending too much money on Vlad. Love the damned if you do and damned if you don't philosophy. So, how many negative headlines has Vladdy made this Spring? How many stories have you read with the headline: VLAD REFUSES TO PRACTICE WITH SQUAD. INSISTS "I'M JUST A DH, WHY THE HELL SHOULD I TAKE SHAG FLIES?" You've heard nothing from Vladdy. Except that he goes about his business as one of the best and most professional hitters in the game. Why did they over pay for him (assuming they did)? TO CHANGE THE CULTURE. To put a consistently productive bat and a consistly hard out in the center of the line-up. You don;t think Buck wanted Vladdy????? Really?

Now on to Reynolds. Buck saw where the O's were last year with Josh Bell being not ready for prime time at third base. Also, he saw that Bell wasn't thriving under the "I'm the heir apparent" sign. So, Buck and AM went out and got a young, hard-working third baseman with unbelievable power. Is Mark Reynolds a work in progress? You better believe it. But who else is out third at third that is available and on the upswing of their careers instead of the downside? And let me reiterate that Reynolds reputation is that he is HARD-WORKING. And he is HARD-NOSED. he is a Buck ballplayer. And, if he doesn't blossom into an all-star, he at least puts some major major homerun power in the middle of the lineup. AND, he throws a challenge at Josh Bell. How did Bell react? Didn't he come to ST something like 30 pounds lighter? Didn't Buck even throw away a comment about that? MOTIVATION! Nothing motivates like competition. (Which is why the O's have 4 closers in their bullpen.) So, not only does Reynolds represent incredible upside and an upgrade over previous years at the corner, he also presents motivation to one of our stud prospects who just might have struck Buck as a little complacent.

I'm telling you, this can work, people. Adam Jones emerging as a clubhouse leader? You think Vladdy and DLee's presence might have something to do with that?

What AM and Buck are doing, for the first time in forever with this club, is putting together a team. I can't wait to see how they do. I don't think Buck will allow a 15 game losing streak in April, do you? If his players don't play with enough pride, Buck'll ship 'em all out to Bowie and bring the Baysox up for a few games. That's his attitude. I can't wait.

@jc,

You take a solid second place for immaturity on this blog. Harry got you beat for the first.

As others have previously mentioned: every time I see someone write hater or naysayer, I automatically lower my expectations about their IQ, education, ability to think critically, or abilty to write coherently for that matter.

You took the time to write all that, but what exactly was your point? To show that Buck is a good manager? Who in this blog has ever disputed that?

That said: You start by dismissing Jackson's 11 NBA titles and putting Buck on a pedestal for winning 0? I know, it's two different sports, but it's your argument not mine.

I know, a lot of people, including you, get all jacked up about some rhetoric that Buck already retreated from on a follow up interview. Howerver, that's all it is: rhetoric. It doesn't mean squat. Bernard in SC put it best:

The rhetorick "will mean about as much as a fart in the wind if its another losing season"

BEST part about this subject?

It reminds folks how inept AM is as a current day baseball exec.

It reminds people of how and why AM has lost more games than any exec for over the past 20 years... TWENTY.

It reminds people why he has a worst record in the same period as the previous Beattie/Flanny regime.. a regime that had to follow a worse regime than AM.

It reminds people of all the horrid offseason acquisitions AM has made since getting to Baltimore (insert - 'but what about the Bedard trade here' - which was almost 4 yrs ago)

It reminds people how the minor league system is ranked #21 in all of baseball, only to get worse once Britton comes up.

It reminds people that SP's Guthrie, Bergy, Arrieta and Britton were already here when AM arrived.

It reminds people that the Orioles remain the worst team in the league with their international efforts.... As in nationally criticized and embarrassing.

It reminds people that by the trade deadline, two key players in the MIDDLE of the O's lineup will likely be GONE. Why? Well because AM has to fix that lowly ranked minor league system... that's why.

And why does this blog subject remind us of all of this?

Because........

AM didn't want to hire Buck. That's right. The one great thing going for this team is a Baltimore Oriole only because of PA.

And since PA is voted as the worst owner in the game year after year in Sports Illustrated, it gives you an idea of how difficult it is for anyone to give PA credit for anything. But he gets credit for this one - ask the Baltimore media folks.

Eric Wedge would be your manager if AM had his way you silly posters.

You don't lose more games than anyone else for over two decades by mistake...

Thanks for reminding us Pete

Thanks Wayne for reminding me ...

I need to pick up bread and milk after work today....

And you sir have a great day and thanks again for reminding us some things!!!

Hmmm. First of all, I need to make another couple of appointments with my shrink because Meso has hurt my feelings. Second of all, notice I didn't get personal or mention anyone on this board by name - unlike meso - must be my immaturity showing through again. Third, now that I know that my " IQ, education, ability to think critically, or abilty to write coherently" has been questioned by Meso, I guess it's time for me to rethink my career choice which has won me dozens of major awards and a sterling international reputation for - gee - ability to think critically and ability to write coherently. As for my IQ and education, I guess I have to face the fact that I can't measure up to some of the self-anointed mensa uber-men on this board. But maybe I can learn from you.

(By the way, let's compare credentials sometime in terms of which of us has accomplished more in our professions.... and where, Meso. I grew up in Baltimore but have lived in NYC for much of my adult life and have risen to the top of my profession here -- and have been profiled in every major media outlet in the country including the Times (about 20 times), and every major network news broadcast -- must be my low IQ, lack of maturity and various other inferior inabilities...)

Of course in your little personal diatribe, there's not one thing I wrote that you can refute. My Phil Jackson aside was to only compare Buck's style with an opposite style. Not only are the sports kinda different, but Phil's been pretty successful at having people named Michael, Scotty, Kobe and Pao on his team - which might have something (a little something?) to do with his titles.

I would also argue, and I wouldn't be the first, that, but for King George's outsized ego, Buck would NOT have been fired by the Yankees and would have won just as much with the team that Joe Torre inherited - from him - as Torre did.

I'm not "jacked up" (and, by the way, genius, rhetoric doesn't have a "k" in it - and it ain't a typo either because the k is pretty far away from the c on most folks' keyboards), about Buck's comments. Just the reverse, it is simply Buck being Buck. What I am "jacked up" about is that Buck is a professional, proven manager who hates to lose and is therefore the perfect person to CHANGE THE CULTURE.

As for the brilliant reporting of blogger Wayne -- and it really is Pulitzer Prize winning stuff -- why would ANYONE credit a GM for hiring a manager? It must be my lack of maturity, lack of IQ, lack of education and inability to think critically that makes me think that the one thing a GM CAN be credited for (as opposed to whether or not a player gets injured, say) is hiring and firing (unless, again, you are the Steinbrenner Yankees or the Al Davis Raiders).

I actually heard it differently. I heard it was PA who wanted to hire DT because DT came pretty cheap and DT was, well, there. That's what I heard. But what do I know? I will now rely on your reporting that AM DIDN'T WANT BUCK! Which makes perfect sense, because Buck DIDN'T have any choice in excepting the O's job. I mean, it's not like he was a well-paid analyst for ESPN or anything. It isn't as though he had ever managed before. Managing the O's was his BIG CHANCE! Let's face it, beggars can't be choosers and Buck has no integrity anyway so he would definitely go to work for a GM that didn't want him. Let me repeat that in bold letters so that even you haters (oh, no, there I go again, showing my low IQ and immaturity) can understand: you're suggesting that BUCK WOULD GO WORK FOR A GM THAT DIDN'T WANT HIM.

Uh huh. What, no comments about BRob and DLee in the line-up last night? No comments about Mark Reynolds being a decent pick-up in his own right and also lighting a fire under Bell's heir-apparent ass? No comments about signing Vladdy? Oh, sorry, you did comment. You commented - let me make sure I get this right - "two key players in the MIDDLE of the O's lineup will likely be GONE." - I assume you mean AM's terrible FA signings. Now they're KEY players? And your problem is that they weren't locked up to long-term contracts? Who are we talking about? And if AM had locked them up for more years, you wouldn't be screaming on this blog that AM is the WORST GM IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL for giving multi-year contracts to injured and old and past-their-prime free agents?

Here's my advice: get your father or your older brother to go over your posts before you hit the send button. That way, your grade might improve and you can have a better GPA when you start applying to Colleges next year.

I have an absolute great idea, since my earlier one was turned down. We should organize a couple outings for all the regulars who comment on this blog. Wouldn't everyone love a face to face with the people we agree and disagree with on a daily basis??

Smitty - I know you would love the opportunity to tell Wayne to his face how dumb he is. Wayne - wouldn't you love to just give it to Smitty in person in front of his peers?? I'm not talking about physical fights or anything (although, it sure could lead to that). I'm talking about some good old fashioned face to face debates on our beloved O's!!

We could get together hours before a Saturday night game at a nearby bar and really get to know each other on a personal level. Who here wouldn't want to see what Jim66 or Ken actually look like?? All while drinking some crisp, delicious Natty Boh drafts. We could have a contest between Wayne and Smitty as to who can drink more. That would be a classic!! Who knows, maybe Pete will make a guest appearance. I could always tap into my connections at th OH and invite Roy Firestone, I'm sure he would love it.

What do you say fellow Schmuck bloggers? First Saturday in April??

JC -- your logic is wasted. Wayne knows everything, just ask him. And if you keep disagreeing with him, he'll claim that you are really just Smitty posting under a different name. (That's a standard defense that Wayne employs, though to be fair to Wayne, his menu of standard defenses is limited).

Or worse, he'll say that you are Smitty and me! And anyone else who happens to disagree with him...must be all one person.

(We'll all have to agree to forget that little incident last year when Roch Kubatko proved that Lil Wayne and several other "posters" were, in fact, the same person posting on his blog.

Yet it's always Wayne who assumes that I am Smitty, or that Smitty is Chris in Hawaii, or whatever. I believe psychologists refer to this phenomenon as "projection".)

The weird thing for me is I don't necessarily disagree with everything Wayne says. I'm not thrilled with AM's tenure, but I also don't twist everything up and make him out to be a complete failure.

Funny how those on this blog who blame others for "spin" do the same thing in support of their own causes.

The truth is, AM hasn't done everything wrong. And he hasn't done everything right, either. He's in the middle. He's made some good decisions, and some terrible ones. He didn't have a lot to start with, certainly, but I also don't feel he's adequately used the resources at his disposal either. I give him a C- grade.

That must make me a fanboi, or maybe I'm Andy's distant cousin, because surely only someone in his family could give him a higher grade than an "F", right Wayne?

Actually, don't bother answering, Wayne. We all know what your response is going to be:

You'll put ONE SENTENCE per line.

And you'll use CAPS to get YOUR POINT across.

And you'll say that I'm Smitty and 10 other people.

Then you'll say, "but you ALREADY KNOW THAT, don't you?"

Then you'll say "but you're better than that Ferg Deluxe, (wink wink, I know who you really are).

Then you'll close your "argument" with what you perceive to be a real clincher, something like "Just keep spinning, all the way to your grave".

Then you'll make that into a little saying, a little acronym: JKSATWTYG

:) Smiles.

Love Ferg Deluxe, and only Ferg Deluxe.

JKSATWTYG

"You take a solid second place for immaturity on this blog. Harry got you beat for the first."

--Meso.

Irony alert! Irony alert! The pot is calling the kettle black!

"As others have previously mentioned: every time I see someone write hater or naysayer, I automatically lower my expectations about their IQ, education, ability to think critically, or abilty to write coherently for that matter."

--Meso the philospherreere

ROFLMAO! You used IQ, eduction, and critical thinking in the same sentence as "abilty". That's a b i l i t y, Mr. razor sharp intellect. Oh, remember your list of all those young SP that were up before Britton...and NONE of them were up before Super 2. Not one name supported your argument. Not one. Is that the critical thinking you display? Not even being able to look up facts that support your rock solid logic? LOL.

"The rhetorick."

--Meso, the 2nd grade 2nd place spelling bee champion.

At least you can spell hater correctly. BTW, hater is in the running for the word of the year to enter the American English Dictionary. You know how they make those decisions? By the amount of times it's used in contemporary media's (blogs included). Thanks for helping the cause. Hater.

Wayne reminded me that Pete's blog has only been up for 3 years, it only seems like I've been reading the same thing for 30.

@JC, good posts, so much of what has been done since Buck arrived has been about changing the culture in the Clubhouse. A young team sometimes need some vets around, that's why I lobbied from the time of the Winter meetings for Vlad Guerrero. Think he won't have an impact on the O's young bats while filling the biggest hole in the lineup?

JJ Hardy, Reynolds, and Lee all have reputations solid veterans that put in their work, and play the game the right way. Think they're not having an impact on the club, plus every minor leagurer that Buck's brought over to work in the big league camp this year?

Notice how Buck has rotated a lot of young talent through camp this year? Think that's not about having an impact on the minor leagues? And reestablishing the Oriole Way?

Andy and Buck did the same thing in the pen. They've brought in some veteran guys that have been around the rodeo before to give some veteran influence to the staff, and to give the young starters the insurance to know they can turn a lead over to the pen.

As a point of context, I think people started using the "haters" term was in response to a small number of posters that all used the term "Warehouser's" to respond to any post that disagreed with them in any way. They also seem to share many spelling and grammer errors, use similar phrases, and all pat Wayne on the back a lot, and he returns the favor, a lot....

Almost as if they come out of the same head...Hmm...

Smitty, Remember to call uncle Andy, he might need some things at the store too...

Wayne, you've tried insults, being demeaning, then trying to take up for Pete because you claimed he was being punished by the O's and the Sun for being "Negative",and was sent on vacation. Are you able to get in on that action? Cause if the O's and the Sun are handing out free vacations for negativity, I can see where you may never have to work again.

If we can all get in on that, I can "rip em' a new hole", cause I could really use a week off.

But now on this post you've resorted to near boot licking to get Pete to respond to you, It's getting kind of creepy....

Face it Wayne, you've been a been a bad boy and he doesn't want to play anymore...

And Me So, sorry $25 tickets don't touch it in the new Yankee Stadium. I give my Chiropractor and her husband Yankee tickets each year because he's a huge Yankee fan. My box seats with a parking pass to C Lot are less then the cheapest weekend Yankee tickets she could find him last year for a planned trip to NY.

I called the ticket office hooked them up with some seats for a Yankee game and they went to Baltimore for the weekend instead, and loved it. My small contribution to the Baltimore economy...

wayne -

Actually, I think this topic reminds only you of all those things, all at once. Thanks for sharing though.

The topic is about Showalter and his comments and you have to bring everything about losing up? Wow. Other than being temporarily deluted for a few moments, I was reminded of nothing of the above, at least until you mentioned it.

Somebody has to take ahold of the Oriole Guidon running and screaming, so why not it be Showalter? Sure it currently represents everything you hate about the Orioles, but coming from Showalter, I'm sure even you feel an inklin of confidence.

Or maybe not.

Maybe Showalter is just another Oriole shill, a patsy, a future diversion in the Old Man's evil plan.

Or maybe he's just doing his job and trying to rally what's left of the Oriole fan base.

I think you're making more out of it then it really is. Or maybe your intension is to instigate? Boy you have a one track mind.

BTW, you're slipping. You forgot to remind us:

1B - trying to put '10 behind and one year rental...
2B - Injury prone and trying to '10 behind...
3B - Most strikeouts in history. H-I-S-T-O-R-Y!!!!!
SS - Trying to put '09 and '10 behind....
CF - Can't last a full season....
RF - Regressed....
DH - One year rental.....
SP - See '08,'09,'10.....
RP - " " " ".....

I miss anything else BESIDES the point?

Never said that AM was infallible. Never would. I would never say that about anyone. I have loved the O's ever since I can remember. I remember summers at Memorial Stadium in the empty upper deck with my best friend sneaking down the stands as far as we could without getting caught. I remember all those Baltimore beauties in their tank tops and cut offs. My dad was one of the Designated Hitters - a volunteer who would sell season ticket packages - when EBW owned the club. The top sellers would get a free junket trip to Miami for ST and he'd bring my brother 'n me. I have rookie signatures from Cal and Eddie and MacGregor - I have signatures from Tippy and Dempsey and Fred Lynn and Boddicker and Dennis Martinez and Bumbry and, of course, Earl. Then my dad volunteered with the Baysox. Sold ticket plans for them and then booked pre-game entertainment at the (then) brand new Prince Georges Stadium.

The posters here don't bother me. 13 years of losing bothers me. I was in Yankee Stadium for the Jeffrey Maier debacle and the O's haven't had a winning season since.

I actually think that AM has done a good job in replenishing the prospects and the Minors. It takes time. It includes changing scouting philosophy and it includes upgrading the Minor League organizational system. I remember when our AAA was in Rochester. Makes more sense to be in VB/Norfolk. I know a lot of it didn't happen on AM's watch, but I do see progress and I think that Buck could be the final piece of the organizational puzzle. I think the hideous start to last season was due to the fact that DT had no control over his clubhouse and didn't command the kind of respect that Buck commands. I think the injuries in ST last year were because DT let players make decisions that were not in their or the club's best interest. I see Buck changing that this year.

And I see the off-season acquisitions as smart and perfectly in keeping with the plan: grow pitchers, buy hitters. Will it work? Who knows? Time will tell. But it is a plan. There are very few clubs that I would trade young cores with right now, especially young pitchers. Very few.

I also get po'ed at folks who blindly vent their rage on the front office - as though it is the front office that strikes out, commits errors, and blows saves. We happen to be in a divison with the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays. The Yankees are in a down trend. The Sox are in an up trend (I'd trade their young core straight up for ours, yes I would), the Rays are trying to hold on. I see the future as brighter than the haters on this board, not because I am a blind optimist, but because I see Buck changing the culture and I see the Yankees and Rays losing ground. I await with impatience for the implosion of the Yankees - for Mariano to finally lose his stuff, for Jeter to settle at .270, for ARod to begin to wear down. Posada is already there. AJ Burnett is an expensive joke (God knows what the haters would say if he were in Baltimore). Nova is the real deal. But Bartolo Colon? Is he durable for a season? The only prime blood the Yanks have is Cano and Hughes. I loved it when they whiffed on Cliff Lee. But haters on this board think that the only reason Lee didn't land in Baltimore is because PA/AM didn't offer him enough money? Really?

Thanks for the offer to come and meet, but I get down to Baltimore more infrequently than I like.

And I need to say a word about Guthrie. He is one helluva pitcher. Not flashy. Not a bonus baby. But respect the hell out of him, people. Let's see what he does with a better pen, more run support, a good manager and better defense behind him. If he was a number 3 or a number 4 somewhere else, he'd have some pretty impressive career stats.

Chris in Carroll County,
I bet Smitty could get Uncle Andy to get us the picnic area at the Yard. We could all wear Hawian Shirts too...

Got to remember to check with Pete on a date. He might decide to go negative on the Birds and get handed another vacation and not be able to make it...

Chris in Carroll County,
I bet Smitty could get Uncle Andy to get us the picnic area at the Yard. We could all wear Hawian Shirts too...

Got to remember to check with Pete on a date. He might decide to go negative on the Birds and get handed another vacation and not be able to make it...

@ jc

Thanks for the comments. It's reassuring to think there's a few, what was the phrase, oh yeah, "critical thinkers" left on the blog. Good looking out. Sure, it's probably music to the deaf, but it's a beat most O's fans can dance to.

@ Ferg

Did you forget to mention the open ended questions?

What about the SELF GLORIFICATION?

Did you forget lack of humility? Oh you didn't?

How about how the YANKEES did such-n-such with so-n-so and the Rays won the division with a pay-roll of what?

(lol, you nailed him...very funny).

@the suffocating ignorance,

Thanks for proving my point. The reason for listing those pitchers wasn't to make a point for or against arbitration scenarios. The list was used to discredit a poster's argument about Britton being too young to be promoted. However, your ADD doesn't allow you to read and comprehend what's being written. Instead, you see a list of players, skim through keywords, and make an ignorant guess about the topic at hand. I bet you're not even taking the time to read this, so I have no clue why I'm trying. However, you will read the following because that's a new paragraph. Because that's what people with ADD do. The current paragraph was too long for you to read in entirety.

Funny how you criticize me for not knowing how to spell the same word I spelled correctly twice in the same post. But then again, my argument about your ADD.

Ah the irony! Yes the irony of the suffocating ignorance you just displayed. Thought you had me, son?! Try again. I each chumps like you for breakfast.

Jeez guys--all I wanted was to rant about the inferior quality of today's fan in Baltimore. Seems I've stumbled onto a debate between some Ivy League types. Not an insult--just kidding--you all seem very intelligent and make compelling arguments. However, we're talking about baseball here--at least I think we are...an escape to a green, slower paced, 75 degree place where we can relax and root for our team solely because they're our team (they like that )...and by rooting, I'm not espousing the drunken, profane, idiotic (immature, Meso) behavior that seems to be everywhere. I seldom comment here--once , twice a month maybe--when I have time---but I read Buck's comments, and just on a visceral, sports-related gut feeling, I liked them. I'm not looking to see Buck explain how the interview was months ago, taken out of context, etc... Do they mean anything? Apparently they are eternally, minutely dissectable. That's good for those that like to engage that way. Man, it's only sports!! I have suffered along with every other Oriole fan for the last decade and a half, and want nothing more than a winning team. But, you never know what's going to happen in baseball--sure--you & the experts you read can predict it---and if that's good enough for you, then stay home. I'm just saying--get out to a game or 5, root for your team against all comers. You don't have to make some huge season ticket investment, just come to a game on a summer night when you're bored, your kid is bored, the blogs are boring, and buy yourself a $9 seat---come on---everyone here has a LOT to say--expend some of those thoughts vocally--for the O's--- get out and fill Camden Yards with Oriole fans---afterwards, adjourn to the lounge, don your tweed coats, light your meerschaum pipes, and beat each other about the brains with your degrees and thesauruses (or is that thesauri?)...just kiddin guys. Go O's! Please don't psychoanalyze me or my comments...my kids read this...

@harry,

I don't disagree with what you just wrote about supporting your team and cheering your lungs out. But to what extent can you do that for a team and owner that keeps letting you down? This team has humiliated us. I don't go to Yankee and Redsox games, because I don't want hear the away fans tell me how sorry they feel for us.

Money is not an issue for me. I would pay top dollar to support a winning organization. I'm a Ravens' PSL owner and season ticket holder. I pay money through the nose to watch 8 home games and a couple of road games every year.

He said I don't want to talk about the Yankees and Red Sox at Fanfest and always said the Orioles just need to worry about themselves.

Stupid comments he is taking back now. Oriole fans would have taken Jeter at any point and he is a player that does not deserve criticism. If the Orioles were smart as the Red Sox ownership by building reveue by investing in nearby real estate, Staring Fenway-Rousch racing, etc., they would have more revenue. And they don't spend the revenue they have.

Sour grapes.

jc,

'never said AM was infallible'? Did you really say that?

Infallible? Oh, thanks for not calling him infallible jc. I mean we wouldn't want to call the exec who has lost MORE games than anyone in MLB over the last 20 years 'infallible'. Ugh... That would be nasty and just mean.......

dave,

Nope... You did a good job actually. I had forgotten about listing the classic AM acquisitions.... thanks for posting such.

Mountain,

'boot licking'? Hahaha. Now that was a good line. The thing is my friend, I could care less if Pete ever responds to me. That's what you don't understand. The fact that he responds to me the way he does seems to matter to you all much more than myself.

smitty,

I just love ya my man. I hope things are going great. The last report I received was a good one. Stay strong my friend.

Ferg deluxe,

Thanks for the compliment. As for the rest of your post., you may want to work on thought structure, etc..... You lose most people my friend. Keep plugging though big guy.....

Chris,

I'm there bro..... If for the only reason to collect my winnings from ken.

Hey CIH,

Come on my friend.... toughen up. If you want to be in the music biz and eventually end up in NY, you have to get a tougher skin. I'll help you my brother.....

Meso and Gil,

You're getting through.... trust me, you're getting through. Common sense always wins out in the end...

The original entry here was Buck taking aim at division rivals, with him knowing that it would fuel a fire with his players. It wasn't about AM. Every time Pete posts something here, it turns into 3 people on here blaming AM. We get it, you hate the guy and his performance. I'm not happy with the man either. But you guys take every chance to restate that over and over again. You can say it 1,000,000 times (just ask Wayne, he's done that already). It will not change AM being the GM, and restating things serves what purpose?

As for Buck taking some shots, terrific. I hope he starts throwing inside, high and tight at them this year as well. It may not be football, but we need players willing to fight for a win.

Lastly, the funniest comment belongs to FS. "Wayne, your pieces are a breath of fresh air." That had to be the funniest, most ironic thing I've reading a long, long time. Fresh...lol.

Thanks, Paulie!

Uh oh. This must mean that you are me. Or maybe I'm you?

JKSATWTYG

maybe my approach is simplistic, because I'm not so young anymore---I remember when I was younger, it was a great way to spend an evening with your friends, your girl--and not just when the Birds were a top notch organization throughout the late 60s and the entire 70s...for the dark, mid-late 80s, gawd-awful 90s...the way I see it, enjoy yourself like a kid at a kids game--take the stinking politics out of it. Life's too damned short to be this bitter about a sports team. Yeah, losing consistently sucks, but things eventually turn around. Maybe I'll see you guys at the park this year--but I don't wanna know who anyone is--that's another joy--striking up a conversation with the fan next to you about a player, the team, a game, the season, other seasons,,,man, that's a good night...that'd be funny though---just by talking to someone, figuring out if he's meso, smitty, jc, etc---and not even needing a Hawaiian shirt to know it...

Wayne -

I need to work on my "thought structure"? Did the king of stream-of-conscious incoherent babbling just tell me to work on my "thought structure"?

Yes I believe he did.

Thanks Wayne. I will take that under advisement. Or I could just write up some generic comments and cut and paste them over and over, all the while acting like I'm a super-intelligent gift to humanity.

You know, like you do.

Hugs and kisses, sweetie.

Ferg Deluxe

JKSATWTYG

Wayne. I must hand it to you. You've taken a dull, boring blog that is centered around a losing team and have managed to make it interesting. High five for accomplishing the impossible. The best thing about your attackers is the fact that they are themselves, pure haters. Look at them hating all over the place.

Meanwhile. guys like you, Gil and Meso are the one's who are called haters on a regular basis. You're being called haters by the most hateful people I've seen on blogs. Still though, you've turned that hate around and made the blog measurably readable.

Go Orioles - Go Wayne

Wayne -

I need to work on my "thought structure"? Did the king of stream-of-conscious incoherent babbling just tell me to work on my "thought structure"?

Yes I believe he did.

Thanks Wayne. I will take that under advisement. Or I could just write up some generic comments and cut and paste them over and over, all the while acting like I'm a super-intelligent gift to humanity.

You know, like you do.

Hugs and kisses, sweetie.

Ferg Deluxe

JKSATWTYG

Sorry about the double posts above. Seems to happen often when I post from an Android-based device.

Well, I'm still waiting for Meso to continue to debate my posts today. Still waiting for a substantive argument as opposed to name-calling. Still wondering why he felt secure enough in his position to stammer and stutter about my personal inadequacies simply because I made some observations about unnamed haters on this blog who never seem to have anything to say when there is a possibility that something positive might be brewing - i.e. that our injury situation with BRob and DLee might be not so dire (jury's still out on Duke) and how this might be credited to the way Buck runs ST and, by extension, how this might be a credit (along with off-season acquisitions) to - wait for it - Andy MacPhail. Just hanging out and wondering where the substantive debate is.

Did I scare you Meso and Wayne? Is it possible that you are intimidated by someone who you can't intimidate with your attacks and that you don't know what to do or what to say when someone actually calls you on your garbage?

My comment about AM not being infallible was a response to someone (can't recall who now) claiming that I was making a case for AM being the greatest thing since sliced bread. I wasn't. I was saying that he's basically delivered on what he's said he would deliver on and that the ferocity of the attacks on him (and those accused of defending him) is a bit - shall we say - over the top.

Anyway, haters, pray for bad news and pray for another bad season so that you will have reasons to spew more hate on this board. But my guess is, the way things are going, we are in for a turn-around that will leave you without much to say.

I could be wrong. But if I'm not, I wonder if you guys will admit that you were. Wrong that is.

Oh- and I read on another board that someone actually BLAMED BERGY for getting in the way of line drives belted up the middle. Seriously. Someone said it's his fault for throwing pitches that hitters could hit directly at him. Glad to see he may be alright, just a bruise apparently. Was it televised? Did anyone see it? I don't get MASN up here unfortunately for me.

jc;

Surprised to see you're still here putting up posts. Rumour had it that you were the main course in a breakfast buffet.

@ Meso,

Let's review the ADD you black kettle nut-job. I'll re-post both John Boys post and yours.
____________________________

Hold him back. Not even a tought about him starting in the rotation. Too valuable to give up a year of protection for a few starts. No brainer.

Posted by: JohnBoy | March 22, 2011 12:27 PM
______________________________

@JohnBoy,

Let me illustrate to you why Britton, if he is that good, has no business spending another day in the minors. And the Palmer's age argument is legitimate. We don't have to go that far in history to see that a ton of good pitchers start young. Exhibit A below:

Posted by: Mesotheliangelos | March 23, 2011 3:39 PM

______________________________

Okay, please point out where JohnBoy said "age" had anything to do with it?

Um, no where. Not once mentioned age. None. Nadda. Zippo.

Was John Boy's post too long for you? ADD kicking in huh. 28 words...and you can't comprehend it. Stunning. What's the word for people that can't read 28 words? Illiterate. Remember when you said others lack "IQ, and critical thinking"...lol.

Are you literate?

"I each chumps like you for breakfast."

ROFLMAO!!!! I guess not.

I can only hope there are corks on your forks...you do more damage to yourself than I could ever dream of.

"I each chumps like you for breakfast."

lol...it's so funny, it deserves to be your tag line.

Can you "edit" before hitting the post button, or does the ADD kick in before the irony? Tool.

Sorry guys but just spoke with Uncle Andy and he says no-go on the night out for me. Could cause too much media attention and you guys know how he plays it so close to the vest....however...
He says when i graduate from middle school this summer I could have a few of the regulars come and do a walk through of the offices at Camden Yards.
He said he wouldn't charge anybody but that Wayne and Gil and Meso would be forced to wear some Old T-shirts he has left over from his days at Minnesota (all in fun). I think they say World Series Champs on the front. He says he still has both years available so they could pick which one.
He will come and talk for maybe 15 or so minutes during the tour on the subject of "Aggressive and Subtle Posting Methods on Sports Blogs"
with particular emphasis on how to defend a despised front office and GM with 5 simple keystrokes.....I Know right?....I said "Uncle Andy it's not like these guys are brain surgeons or anything!"
Buck wouldn't commit, but Wedge said he would stop by if we can do it while the Mariners are in town. Yeah Andy and Wedge still talk regularly because Andy really likes him alot.....no, not like that you moron!...
gotta run....Uncle Andy sends a shout out to jc and asked if I was pretending to be him also...I know....right?
He's such a kidder..

Ferg D,

DGJEMDYHTWBGT

:-)

One question. When was it decided that post must be the length of 19th century Russian novels?

Talk about Crime and Punishment??!!

Hi Jen, sorry we have to meet on Pete's blog like this, but with the pending lawsuit,
and now that my wife has taken my phone...
Hope all is well. Let's talk tomorrow on here and I'll get you a link to more pics. Signed, your favorite QB

I never realized Oriole fans were such a bunch of whiners.

Meso, if you're going to take exception, and make an argument, at least represent what you're debating correctly. I never said that I thought Britton was too young to join the rotation. I sad that comparing him to Palmer was comparing apples to oranges, because Palmer was, in hind sight, a special case. The main point I was maiking regarding the comparison is that Palmer came up in a totally different business environment. The owners had a very different level of control over players and for how long. That was the point. Age, per se, had nothing to do with it.

People......

You see what Buck did here, right?

Did you catch it?

Ok, well listen...... Bucks knows that AM wanted Eric Wedge to manage the O's. With a Wedge type, AM would never have to deal with a story like this.

You see.... AM controlled DT, in ways we'll likely never fully understand. And if he got his way, he would have controlled Wedge as well.

So all Buck was doing here was having a little fun.

Think about it everyone.....

If Bucks is going to make fun of Theo as compared to Tampa Bay, he was obviously taking a swipe at AM as well.

I know, I know..... you're just going to have to take off your orange sun glasses off for a few minutes to get it....

It's simple really.. If the O's can afford (because they're one of the richest medium market teams in the league - see MASN) to spend more than three of four times what Tampa spends, then why....

Now follow me here......

...why is Tampa still so much better than the O's?

Why, in AM's 4th year, are the O's still picked to place last, have one of the worst minor league systems, and an embarrassment with their international efforts?

Buck just laid it out there for everyone to see.

LOOK CLOSER.

You see everyone... Bucks a wild card. There's a reason he comes in, makes teams better immediately, then gets shown the door rather quickly. GM's can't stand the guy.

It's why AM didn't want him.

The more comfortable Buck gets, the less subtle he'll become with his feelings.....

It's a beautiful thing to watch....

If in fact......... you're watching.

Wow...Schmuck we need a new Post. Wayne just said all there is to say on EVERYTHING.

@ JOhnBoy,

I was the one who made the case that Britton wasn't young compared to Palmer. You were the one who responded by saying Palmer was a special case. And I listed a bunch of current players who are just as young or younger than Britton. So I don't think I misrepresented anything you said. My point was well defended with facts.

My point was that Britton is 23 years old and there is no point to keep him in the minors when he is that good. I could see if he was 19 or 20, but he is 23. That's what I was saying.

No hard feelings. We will debate each other and bring our points of view across.

@suffocating ignorance,

You're funny with your selective quotes. I started the argument and JohnBoy responded. I then responded to him.

Try again chump!

Here it is:

"To those of you who think Britton should start in AAA,

Why?! If his stuff is good enough to get MLB hitters out, start him now. He is 23 years old. Jim Palmer was 19 when he pitched in the bigs. I can't stand the "he is not ready" mentality. If he can pitch like that against the Yankees, he is more than ready"

Wayne I believe while it is true Buck as wore out his welcome with the GM's he has worked for he also wore out his welcome with his players especially the veterans because of the high standards he sets for himself, his players and the organization he works for.

Hmmm... wow a person who believes in quality. Well Hell, we better go ahead and kick him to the curb.

Lord knows the last thing the Orioles need is a hint of quality.

I actually believe you're onto something there wayne. Buck has always been known to be a wildcard, and I think you may have nailed it on the head. The thing in favor this time for Buck is if the owner chose him, he'll get bolder and bolder because he knows the owner has his back.

So I'm with you. If you read the article in the context of Buck, I believe he is taking a stab at Andy. Good catch.

Okay so maybe Buck is taking a stab at Andy.

That maybe true, but there is one thing that I have noticed if the Orioles go and have a good year Buck will get all the credit and maybe he will deserve it and if the Orioles have another losing year it will be Andys fault.

Those who have been critical of the offseason moves have pointed the finger it seems to me for the most part at Andy, but by saying that then are we to believe that Buck didn't have any say on the acquistions.

For some reason I seriously doubt that Buck was left out of the loop.

If he had been I can only imagine the next time we saw him he would have been back on ESPN.

Right on the mark wayne. Who would have thought when AM got here that we'd be sitting here today, still a projected last place team with very little to hope for next season? I bought into the hype around here. That's on me.

You see everyone... Bucks a wild card. There's a reason he comes in, makes teams better immediately, then gets shown the door rather quickly. GM's can't stand the guy.
Wayne

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2010-07-13/showalter-on-steinbrenner-i-was-one-managers-he-never-fired

Wrong again.

At some point, you figure you'd do a little research, but nah, just throw the BS out there.

Meso;

Do you remember what happened to our young starting pitchers in September of last year? They got shut down when they reached their limit for IP.

Like it or not, it is generally accepted nowadays by managers and GM's across MLB, that you don't increase a young pitcher's innings by more than about 20% from one year to the next. Given that Britton threw about 150 innings last year, he would be due to be shut down at about 180 IP.

That means that if Britton started for the O's from the beginning of April, he'd be shut down about the end of August.

So, if he starts at AAA and his IP and number of pitches thrown are minimized, you can bring him up early in May and have him go until the end of September.

One way or another, you're not going to get a full season out of this guy. By getting your 5 months out of him from early May to the end, as opposed to April-August, you keep control of him for another full year.

An added bonus would be, that if the O's are fortunate themselves, and TBay and the Yanks slip some this year, then the O's could have an outside chance of a wild card which Britton could be part of chasing.

It's a no brainer Meso. Britton starts at AAA.

wayne, Did you see the one link where someone attempted to prove your point as incorrect? How some people will reach in order to further hide their heads in the sand. I didn't use to care for you wayne. But these other jokers make you look like a genius with a sense of humor. Keep up the good work.

Huh?

Other that Buck spouting off about Jeter and the Bosox payroll, does the guy say anything significant? I mean talk about playing things close to the vest and saying nothing, between Buck and Andy McFail their mouths apparently move, words come out and they tell you zilch! Is anyone going to make the final roster? Buck is Mr. Non-commital, I'm certain the last back-up and the last pitcher may still be up in the air, but for Pete's sake (sorry to drag you into it Pete) but say something such as "this guy has to shut them down in his next outing or such and such does the little things that land him a roster spot" but please give us a sound bite with meaning not more Bravo Sierra!

Dan qz -

In comparison to Britton, Brian Matusz never threw more then 123 IP before he entered professional baseball in '09. In '09 he threw 157 IP. Not only did he enter the MLB level in less than a year, he exceded his previous IP by 35 innings. That's HUGE for obvious reasons, plus he pitched into September 12th - more than a month after college baseball ends.

Britton last year in his 5th year of professional baseball had 153 IP, and also had 140 IP and 147 IP in High A/Low A the previous seasons. There's no reason why he could not extend his IP to 175-180 IP, or else the Oriole player development system is worst off then even Wayne thought. Also, if he is that dominate against the competition in AAA, it's not helping him to keep him down.

I see the business sense in it, but holding him back for contract reasons doesn't make baseball sense because it could stunt his development. If he's that ready, take him north.

Hopefully that's the reason why AM or Angelos or Santa Claus brought in Showalter decide.

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack, after a long winters rest and its great to see Wayne continues to hold his own with the masses.

My observation, the O's will be much more exciting to watch this year, plenty of 7-6 games to keep you in your seat until the last out of the 9th. What we won't see, playoffs or even a .500 record.

Face it folks, look at our ST record after you take out the games against the Pirates. Look at our ERA's, and our best pitcher will start the year in AAA, where he should.

But I'm excited, really they will be better and in a lot more games, however I have definitely tempered my expectations.

My question to all of you is where is this team going? I see some of the pitching coming around and I think this will be a break out year for Adam Jones. Is Wieters a .250 hitter with 15 HRs????

What I have noticed that apparently our new Pitching Coach has made some serious changes that haven't worked out as several guys have mentioned they are going back to what they did before.

And while the team will be fun to watch but going nowhere near the promised land, what of the future. Minors depleated and a lot of one year guys who if they have a good year AM won't pay next year!

Enjoy the improvement and pray the NFL settles because Aug and Sept we'll be looking for something to keep our attention.

The Truth will set you Free!

P.S. Pete I see your still part timing it!

OH Brett we are so OVER...

Wayne honey, you stopping over tonite baby? I need you to whisper those little pearls of wisdom in my ear.

I can't get enough of you! Bring all of your blog postings please. Yes ALL of them. I have plans for you...

dave in glen burnie;

By you saying, "There's no reason why he could not extend his IP to 175-180 IP" shows me that you didn't read my post very carefully. I said, "Given that Britton threw about 150 innings last year, he would be due to be shut down at about 180 IP." So we don't have an argument on that point.

Now, look at a calender and assume Britton's first start was around April 5th. Running him out there every 5 days would mean that he'd reach 30 starts or 180 IP around August 27th or so.

So my point still stands. If you keep him down at AAA til early May, keep his pitch counts and IP low, you can use him in Baltimore until the season just about ends.

ace facts. You aren't going to get a full season out of Britton. Which 4.5 to 5 months do you want, a/ April to mid to late August or b/ early May til the end of the season?

If you choose b, then you get just as many innings out of him as if you chose a, and you have him as an Oriole for 7 years instead of six. Plus, if we are lucky enough to be competitive til late in the season, Britton gets to be part of it.

Interesting.

James C is sucking up to Wayne. Hope your brain doesn't explode from the large influx of hot air .

And Wayne Jen wants you to drop by and bring all of your blogs. I hope you can rent a tractor trailer on short notice.

The blog has truly taken a strange turn made all the worse by the fact that I am actually taking the time to comment on such things.

Talk about the last gasp of a misspent life.

unbelievable---get sunlight--vitamin C---change pampers---are you all inbred---or just the same guy? --much too clever

dan qz -

Anyway, he probably will start in AAA because he would be the 5th starter and Showalter won't need a the 5th starter until after April 10. I think he be called up at the end of April or beginning of May depending on which pitcher in the opening day rotation get sent down first.

Also, assuming Britton does make the opening day rotation he probably would start 32 games, which is perfect world scenario for a rookie 5th starter.

Another ideal scenario would be if he was able to average 6 innings per start, which would give him 192 IP - if he could do that in his 1st ML season, he's a stud and a future superstar. MacPhail would HAVE TO extend his contract at least after his 3rd season. If he's as good as we hope he is, why wait until his last year of arbitration to extend his contract?

No Bernard,

I'm not sucking up to Wayne. Instead, I'm agreeing with him. There can be a difference you know. But thanks for proving that people are not allowed to agree unless you're an oriole apologist.

Turns out I think Wayne is correct about this. The fact that he caught it just pisses you guys off.

People, WAKE THE HELL UP. There is absolutely NO REASON AT ALL to bring Britton north with the team.

NO F'ING REASON.

Why on Earth would you even consider bringing him up -- for what, maybe two starts -- and sacrifice an entire year of control down the road at a time when he'll be most valuable? That is just plain stupid. Throw in the Super 2 considerations, and it becomes horrendously, massively stupid.

Seriously. Do you really think he's going to learn anything in those two starts that he can't learn two weeks later? Really?

Are you so deluded that you believe two more starts from Britton is going to make any difference at all in the Orioles season? What, do you think those two starts are the difference between the O's going to the playoffs and not?

It's funny...I bet the people begging to see Britton now would be the first ones complaining if he was to become a free agent a whole year earlier because we couldn't delay his first two starts by 14 days as a rookie.

Unbelievable.

So in your minds, two starts by a rookie pticher equals a whole year of control.

Essentially, you think:

2 starts = one whole season

Great. Must be "the new math".

Wayne, where were you?

You could have ME ME ME and all you're worried about is making up stories about Andy and Bucky and Petey.

Tell me, how can I love a man so? How can I stop my world from turning on his every word, his every insight, his every fantastical tale? Tell me, someone tell me now...oh the Billie Holiday of it all!!!

PLEASE EVERYONE......

Please see Fergs last post for the ultimate example of a 'losing mentality'.

No Ferg... not calling you a lose, so relax. Just your mentality.

It's what has happened to fans like Ferg after 13 seasons and after AM has further destroyed this once proud franchise.

You do not think of 'Wins'. Instead, you think EXACTLY the same way Pirate fans have learned to think for over a decade.

You think that keeping a 23 yr old pitcher who's major league ready back is the best business decision... because that's what AM and those before him have taught you to think.

Instead of showing the league and the young players of this team that the O's have changed, you want to do what the O's, Pirates and others do....

You want to be practical.

Ever poster who wants Britton to be up now understands that this is more than just about this one pitcher.....

..... everyone accept for the brainwashed apologist that is.

Losing is ok to you Ferg.... as long as you always go along with the 'Plan'.

Funny, after a decade in Chi-town, you don't want to bring up the word 'Plan' to the fans their. Instead, they'll remind everyone of AM's words when he departed.....

...honest words from AM in fact... when he simply said 'he failed'.

Just like he'll fail Britton.

All this angst over 2 starts in the major leagues...baseball is a sport and a business. Every kid learns that the minute they are drafted and sign their first contract. Everyone understands the rules of the road.

At the end of the day, unless the kid winds up with 299 wins, no one will look back on this decision either way
as a defining moment in the kids career or in the history of the Orioles.

Maybe someone can poll some GMs and see what they would do before proclaiming that what the Os do in this case is saying anything to the rest of the league. Hey, maybe the GMs that we all most admire would not have him on the roster. Or they would. How do we know?

And if he does start out on the roster, is AM any better a GM, or just the same guy you think he is?.

Everyone, please refer to Wayne's post above for an example of the most ridiculous, lopsided thinking imaginable.

No Wayne, settle down. I'm not calling you ridiculous and lopsided.

Please explain to me how wanting the team to win for a longer period of time is a "loser mentality"?

Do you really think that two starts by a rookie pitcher is going to make a difference to this team, right now? Really? Come one Wayne, I know you don't think that. You're better than that.

Repeat after me Wayne: two starts by a rookie pitcher in April is not going to make a difference to the O's season. It's okay, big fella. You'll be fine.

Repeat it, because IT'S TRUE. Why would you want to start his clock ticking and lose a FULL SEASON when he would be at his most effective point in his career?

And then repeat this, Wayno: two starts is not worth a full season.

TSINWAFS

Smiles and kisses to all the haters.

You're absolutely right Ferg and 66....

2 starts mean NOTHING towards the results of this season.

Obviously though, it's much more than about those two starts.

Your rational defines you and many fans like you.

Every year, you come on the blog with hope and understanding that the O's (and now AM) is doing the right thing. Every year however, you're wrong. The record, the Losses and the national embarrassment proves it each and every season.

Every one of those same years though, posters and fans like Gil, Meso, Keith and myself, attempt to help you to understand situations just like this one....

Instead of opening your mind up to a winning mindset however, you amazingly stick to whatever brain trust the O's throw your way.

Your loyalty is frankly, quite amazing.... quite noble. Problem is though, unless you guys change your thinking dramatically, you'll suddenly be into AM's 8th year of rebuilding saying to yourselves......

....What happened?

That's what the losing mentality does guys... It sucks you in. Even though you're blindly following the exec who has lost more games than anyone in the game for the past two decades.....

... you continue to get sucked in.

Let me ask you though Ferg and 66...

How's that mentality been working for you?

...so in this never ending thread of ........., what is the actual outcome of the Orioles season going to be? Through all the postulating, credential thrusting, gen-yoo-wine memorabilia comparing, yet in the middle of it all, by the way, some damned good insights and baseball knowledge among about a half dozen of you, one of you geniuses should positively KNOW the outcome of this season. I have to tell you though, it comes across more like a girly slap fight. Please---patiently take a deep breath, and enlighten the rest of us poor unwashed.... an earlier poster said something about actually playing the games to see what happens. Since baseball is meant to be entertainment, that's the route I'm taking. I'm taking my kids, some friends, whomever--and going up to the yard a few times to watch what should be the most entertaining & potentially exciting team we've fielded in quite a while. I'm going to follow this team and see what they actually can do. That's called hope, fellas. Life's a lot better when you have some. You guys call yourselves fans with your name-dropping, time stamps, ("I wuz there when Frank hit it outta the stadium...")and yet call our team losers---yeah the last 13 years underscores that, I guess. Stop looking back and bitching. Over. Done. Can't do anything about it now. What good can come from bitching? Screw the last 13 years--this is 2011. In the interest of saving all of you much consternation, and elevated blood pressure, help yourselves out, and go watch and cheer for "winners..." since you already know who they are. Then, feel free to spew bile on them when they don't perform up to your expectations. I hope your cable goes out....

"Even though you're blindly following the exec who has lost more games than anyone in the game for the past two decades....."
The life of Wayne who has the worst record for prognostications in the History of Sports Blogs over the last 30 years.

1. You've never posted facts regarding this
2. I wonder why you don't say the last "25" years?...hmm
3. Because then you'd have to say the same GM is tied for 2nd place during that span for World Series Titles.
4. Do you still think Vlad isn't coming to Baltimore?
5. Do you still think there is "no way" the O's will hire Buck Showalter? * Please note....You didn't say Andy wouldn't hire him, you specifically said the "O;'s would NEVER Hire him"
6. Do you still think Paulie and Smitty and SHAMROCK are the same person?
7. Do you think anyone on here actually still thinks you are just a disgruntled O's fan?....when it's quite obvious you are a community organizer..
8. Do you think the O's will kick the Red Sox but this year?

On second thought I could care less what your response is to any of this.

But have a great day anyway....post some more of your original stuff for us...
Can you post the names again of all the players that were not drafted by AM?
I need to know who to cheer for and I lost my list.

Guys,

Please understand, I am not a hater of the O's, I've been a fan since 1964, follow them closely and wish for nothing but another trip to the fall classic.

So yes a big fan, both literally and figuratively, but with that fandom and hope, is the reality, not just the last 13 years but what you see before your very eyes.

We signed what might be the best DH in Vlad, ok but how bout 1b or 3b does Lee and Reynolds compare to Gonzo and Youklis or Arod and Tex? Look at our pitching (or lack of it) Our best pitcher is starting the season in AAA, if he were in Boston or NY he would be a 3-5 guy and on their opening day roster trying to win the AL East, but in Balmore, were focused on the 2017 season and free agency.

So Keith the realist is excited about 2011, I'm hoping we can be in a lot of games, 7-6 games and begin approaching .500 record, realizing we are outmanned from the get go, It should be much more fun, no hater, just a realist like some others here, don't hate us for being realist, just understand history and the current roster our on our side of this argument, I hope we're wrong!

The Truth will set you Free!

Wow wayne, Why do you even debate idiots like so many on here? It's as if everything they write is immediately erased because of the emptiness of their words. Take smitty, This guy is just a clown, yet you treat him as if anything he says ever makes any sense. Everything he says is ridiculous. When he's wrong, he just forgets that he was wrong or hopes everyone else does. But we don't forget what a clown this guy is every oriole season. It's mindless droll from those like him that keep me from blogging for long periods. He makes a dumb stump look brilliant.

The Orioles continue to be a sham of an organization. Tillman is 22, Britton is 23. Britton is kicking Tillman's behind but it's Britton who will be sent back.

This is pure BS. To save a year of eligibility? Why in the F are any of you caring about that? This team has been Dog Shxt for years, and you care about something years down the road?

Maybe if Tillman had showed anything on the big club. Instead, he's been completely overmatched when he has been up. Meanwhile Britton has done everything he's been asked.

I didn't even know Britton was older than Tillman. What an unbelievably poor excuse of a professional sports franchise. The only ones worse are the fans who love to shovel their shxt.

Wayne --

I'm not sure why you keep referring to my "loyalty to Andy."

I've repeatedly given him about a C-minus grade. I panned the Reynolds trade, and I'm not certain he'll even be good enough to be the starting 3B next year. I thought his drafting of Hobgood was a joke. I hated the Atkins signing, and wasn't thrilled with the return of Tejada. I could go on.

I've repeatedly voiced my displeasure, and will continue to do so, when I see it as appropriate and necessary. The difference here is that you simply refuse to see or admit that he has done *anything* right. And that is simply not true.

Perhaps there is little talk about "Buck against the World" because everyone agrees it may be interesting but it is also unimportant beyond Buck has no time to give into anyone. If that rubs off onto the players, so much the better.

Now for the main course because I love abbreviated and misspelled cursing so much ...

"Britton ... will be sent back. This is pure BS. To save a year of eligibility?"

Yup. You got it.

"Why in the F are any of you caring about that?"

Why not? It is an issue.

"This team has been Dog Shxt for years, and you care about something years down the road?"

Yup. You got it again.

The Orioles are unlikely to win 89 games this year -- the total needed to be closest runner-up to a wild card spot based on the last ten years. So losing two or three April starts doesn't make a difference.

The Orioles may be good in 2017. Maybe they will be ... ah, you know.

If the Orioles are good in 2017, having Britton for 30 or more starts might make a huge difference.

If the Orioles are ... ah, you know ... none of this will make any difference anyway.

There is no risk but plenty of potential reward. Very simple. You got most of it already. Take the extra step and have yourself a logical day.

"It's mindless droll from those like him that keep me from blogging for long periods."
James c

I posted again. Will you keep your word and go away for a long period of time?

I can just feel the love around here... it must be spring... too much in fighting around here.

Anyway, I will give you all this one tidbit
Although, I have no idea as to why Buck decided to say what he had to say with Theo E. I find it interesting that Francona was the one who responded to this.
If memory serves me correctly and it does sometimes =P. JD Drew was drafted by the Sillies back 1997. JD Drew is the current RF'er for Red Sox for all you home gamers. Anyway, ol JD didn't want to play for the Sillies, they weren't "Good Enuff" for someone of his ilk. Terry Francona was the Sillies manager at the time. So ol JD didn't want to play for the Sillies and he didn't want to play for Terry either. So my question is how come ol JD doesn't have a problem with the Red Sox when he clearly had a problem playing for them/him back in 1997. I mean Terry is still the same person as he was back then. I guess winning a World Series or two smoothes things over, I wonder how those two kissed and made up? Because I know sillies fans haven't forgotten. Shame someone didn't ask JD
for his thoughts on the dust up between us and the Sox I would be curious as to his response

Hey guys,

Sorry that I've been away so long. We've had computer issues with the Sun, especially for those who are working from vacation.

Yes, I'm now on my fourth consecutive week of my vacation. Yes, it has been during Spring Training. And yes, my role has been limited as compared with the past.

I'm not going to say that wayne was correct in why I've been away (I wouldn't dare give him that satisfaction). But I will declare that I understand that I do work for the Sun and that I'm an employee of the Orioles flagship radio station.

I am a very positive person by nature. Because that's true, I will limit my Commentary and Blog entries. As my Mother told me when I was a young boy "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

There is some good to speak of when it comes to the Orioles. That we're facing a 500 team at best however, limits the optimism. Therefor, because I always listened to my mama, you won't see as many entries as in the past.

Thanks everyone. And thank you for your continued understanding.

Pete

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Not bad, but you got my email address wrong.

Yup, checked back in after a week away and as expected all of the usual suspects are still prattling on in their designated roles, absolutely nothing new to see here.

Yawn.

Did Wayne and his various aliases make this blog to toxic for the Schmuck? That makes me sad.

HATER ALERT, HATER ALERT!

Take off your panties before you get them all bunched up from reading this. You too ladies!

This is what Britton thinks of his situation.

"Because as an athlete you compete and you feel like you deserve to be somewhere and [if] you are not, it's kind of a slap in the face I think".

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110328&content_id=17168170¬ebook_id=17168578&vkey=notebook_bal&c_id=bal

We knew this would happen Meso...

At its core, it simply depicts what a disgraceful organization this truly is.

Apologist and those brainwashed by PA and AM will fall directly behind the company line. True fans however, fans that care about respect and winning, continue to see what's happening right before our very eyes.

It's embarrassing to be a fan of the Baltimore Orioles. Any respectful and honest fan would feel the same.

Britton symbolizes everything wrong with one of the worst sports franchises in the entire world.

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: So, wayne, let me get this straight. The only "true" fans hate the team and the organization. Great. I think I have it down now.

Thanks for the hate alert, Meso.

Since you ignored the next sentence from Britton in the article you linked, where he went on to say that he understands that baseball is a business and "it is what it is", I think the term "hater" accurately describes your reaction to the article.

Meso, Wayne, and everyone else who is using this Britton thing to continue to dump on Andy: This happens all the time. It's a business decision. Every team does it.

I mean, seriously, if the guy who this is happening to understands that it's a business decision, why can't you?

This happens all the time. Every team does it. End of story. Or THATTETDIEOS for short.

not brooks;

You're right on that some guys are using the issue of Britton possibly being sent down as an excuse to dump on AM.

The give away to me is that these same guys don't think the O's have a snowball's chance in hell of being a competitive team this year.

If so, then there is no logical argument in favour of wasting a year of control of a major talent like Britton for the sake of getting two extra starts in April in a season in which we aren't going to be competitive.

While I would still disagree with it, I can at least understand the anxiousness if it comes from those who are bullish on the O's chances. It makes no sense whatsoever coming from the defeatists.

you guys are NOT fans...'True" fans? please. You're all critics...not really--critics get paid. I'll look for you as I'm going in to watch a ball game--I guess your 'true' fandom will be on display when I see you with signs picketing the lack of "respect and winning" you've been subjected to..." It's embarrassing to be a fan of the Baltimore Orioles." ..obviously you're not a fan. "...continue to see what's happening right before our very eyes." do us ALL a favor and stop looking...

Same people that said there was nothing in the O's minor league system this spring are now falling all over themselves because they think Britton's being deprived of 2 April starts.

I've followed Britton all the way up through the system, he's a pitcher that could be the best of the talented young bunch the O's have. But, he's got less then a 1/2 yr of starts at the AAA level, if he would come north with the club and struggle, the same posters would be hollering BUST by June 1st.

There's nothing wrong with giving him a couple of more starts at Norfolk for some seasoning and then seeing him up here by early May. Think Britton pitching lights out at AAA might not have an effect on the other guys in the rotation? Bergenson is the guy that's got to be wondering what his future is, Think that's not an incentive to keep the ball down and throw strikes?

Britton will be back soon enough and will likely become a rotation fixture. Along with Matusz he could give the O's one of the best young lefty combo's in the majors.

Having another lefty to plug into the rotation that is capable of winning 10-15 games is a huge shot in the arm for a club trying to establish consistant starting pitching for the first ime in a long time.

Yep, Andy took credit and said he failed to go to a World's Series in Chicago. He came within a Bartman catch of doing it.

Having Britton in the wings shows that this club is very close to turning the corner. Not the opposite

@not brooks,

Where in that post did I say anything about Andy MacPhail? I hope you took my advise and took your panties off before you read my post, because as per you reaction you would have gotten them in a bunch.

Yes, Britton said it was a business decision, but nowhere in his rant does he agree with that business decision. He also pointed out:

"I was in this situation last year too, in September,"

That's a guy who feels he was cheated last year and this year. Sometimes business is about doing what's best for the player, and not necessarily what's best for you. It pays dividents in the long run when Britton is up for a new contract. Perhaps he will consider the "hometown" discount.

Apparantly some of you know nothing about paying your dues and earning your place with hard work and sacrifice. Britton has done everything that has been asked of him, and you're going to hold him down as a "business move". This organization has made nothing but bad business decisions for 13 years. All of a sudden they became rational and want to make "good" business moves? Please!

@dan qz,

You're writing the following to NB?!

"The give away to me is that these same guys don't think the O's have a snowball's chance in hell of being a competitive team this year"

Newsflash for you: He is one of those guys! Have you read him lately?

Ok, Buck. Now go get Carlos Silva!! We need a little more fire in the birds bellies!! Set tone for one heck of a come back season. Sign for a 1 year lower level salary.

Meso -

The Rays did the same thing with Longoria.

The Nationals did the same thing with Strasburg.

The Giants were about to do the same thing with Brandon Belt, and then Cody Ross got hurt.

I didn't say this was a good business move. Just a business move. I'd love to see Britton throw Game 3 against the Rays just as much as the next guy. But he's being held down for three weeks so the O's can get an extra year out of him. That's business. As Britton said, "it is what it is".

In terms of reaction to said business, sure, if Britton was going to be the difference between 90 wins and 95 wins, I would be pissed. But Britton might be the difference between 75 and 80 wins. If that. Where is the sense in burning a year of service time when those three weeks aren't going to make a difference for the team?

Face it, Meso. When it comes down to it, this is what's best for the organization. That's all there is to it. Sure, it may not be what's best for Britton, but three or four minor league starts aren't going to hurt him.

Meso;

With due respect, do you ever take the time to read things carefully or do you just purposely twist things? The 5th and 6th words in my post were, "some guys". Get it? Some guys, not everybody, but some. Does that clarify things for you?

Why don't you address my main point? There is no logical argument in favour of wasting a year of control of a major talent like Britton for the sake of getting two extra starts in April in a season in which we aren't going to be competitive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't think we're going to be competitive. What possible good reason is there to blow a year of control for no apparent benefit?

@dan qz and nb,

I read your post carefully. We agree to disagree. No hard feelings. I'm one of those who wanted Britton to come up last year. I didn't feel he was too young then. I don't feel he is too young now. The ownership, GM and manager have their business. I get it. There is nothing you can say to change my mind, as there is nothing I can say to change yours.

I just don't buy the business argument one bit. I think he gives you the best chance to win. Do three starts matter? Who knows? They probably matter a whole lot. They probably mean nothing. I'd be darned to look at the record at the end of the year and say we needed 3 more wins. Rule number 1 in any sports: You play your playmakers everytime. To me Britton is a playmaker.

I bet if you asked any professional baseball player, they will tell you: every game matters, every inning matters, every at bat matters.

Angelos doesn't care about winning as much as he cares about the business. MacPhail is a business GM, not a baseball GM. They prove my point every time.

I also know it is a common practice around baseball but it's dumb.

It would refreshing for a team to once say: screw the damn business. Just do what's best for right now, and for the kid. It would speak volumes about the desire to win. Maybe I'm just a driven person who likes to win. I make no apologies for that.

Meso;

From your comment, "I'd be darned to look at the record at the end of the year and say we needed 3 more wins", its fair to say that you do think there is a reasonable chance that the Orioles will be competitive this year. If so, then a lot of your critisizms of AM have been ill-founded. Baltimore simply couldn't be competitive without AM having been doing a decent to good job in the first place.

@dan qz,

By 3 wins, I mean 3 wins to .500. That's my goal for this team. Baby steps first. I don't think they will be 3 games out of contention. But even in that case 3 games philosophy stands.

But to your point about MacPhail: I'm not a "hater" as people like to label me. I've said it before, but people are selective about what they want to hear.

I"ve said that if the O's succeed this year, everyone, including Angelos and MacPhail, deserve credit. I give credit when/if credit is due. I have a lot of credit to give but nobody to give it to yet, as neither MacPhail or Angelos has earned it, yet.

Meso;

So you're willing to give up a full year of Britton pitching for the O's in exchange for us upping our win total from 78 to 81 games this year.

That's crazy, but you're entitled to your opinion. I sure am glad you're not running the O's though.

Yes, that's exactly right Dan!

If I were running the O's and I got 81 wins, I would have done better than MacPhail in 4 years.

As far as I'm concerned a baboon couldn't have done worse than MacPhail has done in 4 years. Having a losing record by 1 game or 80 games, is still considered losing, last time I checked.

Changing the Oriole culture of losing- it's way past time for that.
My point has been consistent - that change has to also include the very top- the owner and GM.