The NCAA will change when they can make more money with the playoffs than with the current bowl system. The current bowl system chooses teams based on won/loss record and home fan attendance. That is why Maryland got the bowl they did.

Most Orioles fans realize that until play begins they are tied for first place, others see them tied for last.

Then again, Pete, I would pay to see wayne's head explode, that would be fun!

What kills me about certain Orioles' "fans" is that they all say no big name FA will come here, then they scream and holler when no big name FA will come here.
No one really expected Dunn, Crawford, Lee, or even Beltre to consider Baltimore and frankly, I am glad they didn't pay Werth all that money. They made a legit offer to VMartinez and from all reports, never got a chance to up the offer.

So, we are stuck in the seemingly never ending discussion of LaRoche vs. DLee vs. Branyon vs. Cantu vs, everyone else. I wouldn't mind if they signed either LaRoche or DLee and it seems a fait accompli that they will sign a couple of pitchers. But whatever happens, you have to be happy with the moves they did make, Reynolds and Hardy promise to be huge improvements over what we had before.

Speaking of first basemen, one of the posters on the Orioles thread linked a piece by Steve Shoop detailing a possible trade for Billy Butler. Shoop proposed a 5-1 deal, with Avery, Pie, Givens, Bell, and Caleb Joseph. I'd do that one in a second. What does everyone else think?

And, Pete, great article about the BCS. I've pretty much lost all interest in college football because the BCS is plain stupid. I don't know why they even took up that system. I liked the old days, when bowls had conference affiliations and you would see a number 1 play number 5, number 2, play 4, 3 play 7, very rarely did you see one play two. Made for interesting New Year's Day discussions. But no more, all the bowls except for 1-2 are glorified exhibitions, designed for recruiting more than anything else. Who cares?

Thanks, Pete and a Merry Christmas to you, and to wayne, and Bob Lancione, and not brooks, and all the others with whom I've enjoyed spirited debate over the past year. Been fun.

peter you say the comments that many posters are posting are redundant. gee if andy macphail didn't play the secret game you wouldn't be seeing all of these redundant posts.all of these fa's that do not want to come to baltimore could make the orioles a winnig team if they wren't so stuck on themselves

Phew!!!

At last, Pete comes clean and says that the Orioles will continue to be an also-ran in the upcoming season.

Pete,

I could say so much in response.

I could give my daily FA update....

I could talk about how AM lies....

But I won't.

Instead, I'll simply wish you and all Baltimore fans a wonderful day, and a great 2011.

And look.... my head didn't even explode. Possibly one of my impostors will oblige however. Goodnight all. Merry Christmas!

Pete,

I got it, the hint was well taken. Instead of beating the drum to do the right thing, the Sun in a conspiracy with the Warehouse just pushes it under the rug and lets all accept the fact that the O's are inferior. I got it.

Well I neither have time for inferior products which would be both the O's and the Sun.

Merry Christmas! Happy New Years!

The truth will set you all free! Finally, a concession speech from the inabling Sun!

enabling*

Get your insults right, smart guy.

'Well I neither have time for inferior products which would be both the O's and the Sun.'

Yet here you are, Posting on the O's shill that has banner ads that Greedy Petey profits from.

Neither implies 'time' AND/OR '(something)'.

Tighten up.

3rd grade grammar will set you free!

Spell Check:

Enabling correction comfirmed.

Neither correction denied.

Upgrade your software.

2.0 will set you free!

Imposter.... Will you please reply to Pete for me? He actually made it too easy for me, thus I thought it would be a lay up for you.... So have at it.

In the meantime, here's a post christmas recap. And no pete, I don't believe everyone knows the deal as pertaining to this team. They don't because reporters/columnist in this town are limited as to what they can say about the O's....

And who said anything about acquiring the 'best' Pete?

The Best?

How about just some players who don't qualify as the following....

3B - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT '10 BEHIND HIM

SS - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT '09 AND '10 BEHIND HIM

RP - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT '08, '09 AND '10 BEHIND HIM

UT - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT HIS CAREER NEHIND HIM

The Best Pete? How about just below the best (just once)?

Sorry, but while some fans (see ken) believe this is an upgrade over the garbage at these positions last year (ken is technically correct, but typifies many naive and uneducated fans in this city), many fans also understand how those like ken (and obviously you Pete) are in fact, getting played.

Come to think of it though...... ken is on to one thing. I mean as it pertains to 1B, not having anyone at all, is an improvement over what AM put out there last season.

Hey Pete.. that could even be an interesting column. You're welcome.

Oh, sorry imposter...... I was letting you respond. There's much more you can add however. Enjoy

W, i might be mistaken, but I believe you've been played

Hmmmm. Really? Please explain how so?

Great column Pete. Have a good holiday.

Hi Pete,

I understand what you're saying when you declare that Baltimore fans know what they're getting from this team. My question to you though sir is, why must it be accepted?

Ok, wayne goes overboard. But it seams to me that he does so for a reason. Could it be that he's compensating since no one at the Sun ever holds the team accountable?

It's now to the point where it's embarrassing Pete. LaRoche is just a decent player and certainly not anything special. But he doesn't even want to come here? I find that hard to believe. Any player the O's did not get this year was strictly because the other team paid more. Sounds pretty simple to me. The media and fans want to make it out to be more than it is. Fact is, this organization has been cheap for years.

Pete, after the numbers were crunched, where were the Orioles in MLB payroll last year? Where would they stand today? Also, how do the Orioles stack up against other medium market clubs, financially? Isn't the MASN deal one of the best medium market cable deals in baseball? And if the Orioles spend like most of us believe they do, how can it always go unchecked by the Sun? Usually, newspapers hold sport teams accountable by doing solid journalism. It doesn't seem the Sun or anyone else does however.

You indicate that wayne (and I'm sure you're speaking to all discouraged fans) that we get upset because the Orioles don't sign the best free agents. That's not fair Pete. We know this team can't compete financially with large market teams, but to never pick up a quality player. ever? That's just not right Pete. And for you to simply dismiss fans who only crave for something to be excited about from time to time, doesn't seem right either.

So bravo to guys like wayne and keith for continuing to be dissatisfied with what the head of this team does (or doesn't do). You claim negative posters would never be happy no matter what. How about they try us naysayers for once? How about this team giving us something to be positive about. If we're still negative, then you're right. It's just negative to be negative. But I think you'd be surprised.

The last 2 months were nice last season. But it was only two months. In the end, it was still a miserable season, with many of Andy's moves not panning out, as usual.

I just think you should lighten up a bit Pete. Fans should be able to speak the truth about this team without always being criticized for being honest.

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I've got no problem with people complaining about the Orioles, but the idea that The Sun doesn't hold the Orioles accountable is ridiculous. The reason you -- and Wayne -- know enough facts to complain so bitterly about the way the team is run is because guys like Jeff Zrebiec are working behind the scenes to find that stuff out for you. I criticize the Orioles all the time, and have for many years, but I'm not an emotional, angry fan, so I'm not going to sound like one in the paper. That's what message boards are for, so you can vent, and I think that's great. My problem with that post by Wayne is not what is says about the Orioles. It's what it says about Wayne and what he says about anyone who might actually have the nerve to disagree with him. His air of superiority is grating, especially when he acts like he's the only person who really understands anything and everybody else is a mindless dolt. Sorry, but every real Orioles fan has suffered through the same thing you guys have, but some want -- or need -- to be more positive to continue being fans. Ridiculing them, when you would not be here day after day if you weren't really one of them masquerading as something else, is just silly.

Posted by: Thomas | December 26, 2010 4:24 PM

That was me Pete.

Spell Check,

Congrats on those catches and welcome to the USA. THose like you who add nothing to the contribution to this blog are probably looking for work, because your ONLY skillset has been sent offshore or replaced by microsoft. Nice contribution!

Spell Check,

Nice work. You made Spanky cry.

Skanky,

Are you related to Spanky?

Cranky,

I'm related to Skanky but not Spanky.

The comments section on this blog get more bizarre each day....

Merry Christmas, Mr. Schmuck and everyone here. I hope the third day of Christmas finds you folks rested and rejuvenated.

"Thomas", I'll take a swing at responding to your post, though it sounds like the same four or five arguments that have been going on here for a few years now. (See "redundant.") I'll try to reply in simple sentences like ole wayno, but I may have to branch out. Sometimes there's a little more to the situation than a simple sentence at a time can handle (see "wayne.")

1) Why should O's fans accept the losing?

They don't have to accept it, and most don't. There's a difference between fans "knowing what they're getting with this team" and *accepting* what they're getting with this team.

2) "It's now to the point where it's embarrassing."

This may be part of your problem. Many of the rest of us were following the O's back in 2004 and 2005, for instance. Those were embarrassing years. Oh, and 2006. Let's not forget 2007 and 2008... and 2009. 2010? Embarrassing. We're used to this. Doesn't mean we accept it, but we're used to it. We passed this point a long time ago.

3) Money.

If you want absurd FA contracts for a team entrenched in losing, go be a Nats fan--or an Orioles fan from 2005. We've been there. No thanks. We have a young core to this team that needs to take the next step. We don't need to buy free agents just to have a bigger payroll. A sensible FA signing is one thing; locking up Adam LaRoche for three years and $21-24 million is another. And Mark Teixeira and Cliff Lee weren't coming here anyway.

4) Free agents not coming to Baltimore.

Here's a novel concept: what if free agents really don't want to come to a team entrenched in losing? Seriously. Like, what if those guys don't just have it out for Andy MacPhail and Peter Angelos and their money, and they actually won't come here because they want to see that their team has a genuine shot at contention? That's not going to happen in Baltimore until our young core takes the next step, no matter what two or three free agents we sign (again, see 2005 Orioles).

5) Lighten up.

This is purely subjective, but I don't think it's Schmuck who needs to lighten up. On the contrary, Schmuck's blog is consistently laced with humor and good-natured sarcasm about Baltimore sports. There are commenters, though, who have taken it upon themselves to repeat their derision here many times each day. They claim authority on "the truth" and tell the rest of us that we're being played. These guys have used and abused this comments section ad nauseum; they may be honest about how they feel, but that does not amount to being honest about the nature of the Orioles or of the Orioles fans they ridicule.

Again, this is purely subjective, but I think it's pretty ironic for conspiracy theorists to tell other folks to lighten up and have a good time... don't you, "Thomas"?

Thomas,

I should have warned you. Anyone that even comes close to agreeing with me is called me..... at least by the impostors.

You bring up some good points though. Notice how Pete totally disregarded your question about payroll. Notice how he skirted most of your post by attacking me.

I do appreciate your post though (very much). You spoke from the heart... something that Pete and other apologist fail to understand.

Pete,

I think you hit on it. You're not really a fan. You come from another part of the country, with zero investment within this community, thus you're monotone when it comes to the local teams failures.

Same with Mark V at 1057the fan. He's another who simply got a job in this market, yet has no feelings for the home teams either way.

Begs the question..... Are there no longer diehard O's fans working in the media in this town? Is everyone simply a transplant? Could explain allot actually.

In any case, it's media like you Pete who feed certain fans in this market. Take Birdfan for example. He says things like 'if you want absurd free agent contracts'. Why does he say that Pete? Why does he act as if it's his money?

Why doesn't he understand that no one, especially me, is suggesting spending like the Yankee's? Why doesn't he ask the same questions that Thomas asked? Namely, why doesn't this team spend like other medium market clubs? And if indeed the masn deal is one of the best, if not the best medium market deal in baseball, why STILL are the O's near the bottom in payroll?

Why would fans like Birdfan, ken, smitty and the rest not get this Pete? Could it be because non passionate media like yourself simply don't (won't) take the time to point out what's happening?

Oh, you criticize the team from time to time Pete. But it's of the Vanilla variety that will never make waves at the warehouse. If you want to call it criticism, then enjoy. All I know is that it must be easier getting an interview with AM when he knows the local media is always on his side.

You actually said a month or so ago Pete, that you were thankful for Andy's rebuilding. That had to be one of the most irresponsible things any reporter/columnist has said around here for a long time.

Rebuilding? Really.....

Well into AM's 4th year Pete, this rebuilding effort had no answer at incredibly key positions. Nothing at 3B. Nothing at SS. Nothing at 1B. A dismal situation in LF. No Closer. A Starting Pitching staff mainly made up of players before he got here.

He also had nothing to do with RF, 2B, C (yes, he was drafted prior to AM), and the new poster manager wasn't close to his 1st choice.

And to top it all off Pete, this club STILL has (ZERO) position players in the minors to speak of.

And that's the rebuilding effort you're proud of? Shameful....

You're wrong.... I don't act like I know it all around here. This stuff is so obvious, anyone could see it.

And you see it as well Pete. It's just that you and your colleagues (even Z - who reports after the national media) are media employee's... which is quite different from the Steadman days (of being passionate Baltimore fans).

Hey birdbrain. Who's the 'young crop' you're referring to? Who are these great players MacFail has brought into this organization that we're waiting on? Please enlighten us.

Since we're waiting for them to 'grow', it would just be great to know who they are. Are they on the major league roster? How about the minors?

As Macfailure gets closer to his 5th year here, I'm sure he's brought in a bunch of young talent. Otherwise, why would you even bring it up? I'll wait for you to make it clear for us. Thanks

I have been a critic of the Angelos Era since before the losing started. Nevertheless, I do not see it as any reporter's responsibility to "make waves at the warehouse."

The late John Steadman's name was invoked. He was a writer who would criticize someone he felt deserved it. Much of his writings were as syrupy as Hallmark greeting cards, too. He had a style that made for enjoyable read even when I disagreed with the point he was making.

Peter Schmuck's style is different. But I find the results of reading Schmuck quite similar. I don't always agree but I find what I read from him to be enjoyable.

Schmuck is also like Steadman in another important area. Neither are/were agenda driven writers. Sure, Steadman was a local and his passion as such oozed into his writings. Nevertheless, he wrote what he thought and moved on.

This is unlike other media types who are/were agenda driven. Mike Littwin, for example, was caustic towards anything and anybody in the local arena. Mike Preston's irrational distaste towards Brian Billick runs so inexplicably deep, he still mentions Billick dozens of times per year since Billick has stopped coaching.

And Nestor Aparicio seems convinced he must live up to his Nasty monicker much the same way Keith Moon felt the need be the partier extraordinaire. I still listen to his station despite losing two fantastic talents. And on the occasions Aparicio finds his way to a microphone, I generally find it to be a waste of talent as he yammers on about the Orioles, and Angelos, and Free the Birds, and who he has talked to who agrees with him, and, oh yes, his rescinded press pass.

I agree with much of what Aparicio says. I think rescinding a press pass is a bit Draconian. And as I said, I am no fan of Peter the Grate.

But I have little sympathy for the press pass thing and even less time for repeated agenda driven haranguing.

The irony to all of this is in the wake of Robert Irsay and his midnight flee is all of the good locals of Baltimore pleaded with hands folded to all that is imaginary that we would get a local owner when Eli Jacobs needed his junk bonds covered. Well, that's what we got. (I know Angelos wasn't technically born here, but he is still essentially from here having served on the city council 50 years ago.)

Now, the plea is we need more locals as writers? Okay, fine, but it really doesn't matter to me. Give me a good read, and send me on my way.

Peter Schmuck does that. That's good enough for me. And better than some who exited a womb or rode a tricycle in this precinct.

@ Waspman

Peter Schmuck does that. That's good enough for me. And better than some who exited a womb or rode a tricycle in this precinct.

Rode a tricycle?? LOL, that's too funny!
I could not see doing that myself, since I would have to ride it down i-95. Driving i-95 is a bit of a bear, much less travelling it on a tricyle! Could you see a squirrel on a tricycle? You know what though, I would consider doing it, if the Orioles trade for Billy Butler. It would be my last act as a squirrel. As I stated on Roch's blog, if the Orioles traded for Billy Butler. I stated I would turn back into a normal everyday fan! To be honest, I wouldn't have anything more to blog/say if the Orioles pulled the trigger! There would be no more complaints or surly comments from "The Squirrel" again.
I would be one of the happiest Oriole's fans on the Planet! Yes, I would look forward to it!

Don't have to look that far for the irony in this blog.

Wayne-o, do yourself a favor and in a small tribute to the late Mr Steadman, and as a frustrated season-ticket holder who has so far confined his gripes to a blog, go yelp at AM at Fanfest this year. I can't see how confronting your nemesis could not bring you more satisfaction than anything Pete might write.

One more thing- don't forget to check your lame-ass excuses at the door.

BeeBop, I didn't refer to any "young crop" that MacPhail brought into the organization. If you're just here to put words in people's mouths and start fights, have it out with Wayne--he's into that kind of thing. I'm not. Better luck next time.

Wayne, you and I have done this dance before, and you have two left feet. No thanks this time around. For some odd reason, you have become territorial about the comments section of a blog belonging to a writer you think is a shill who works for a paper you think is hopeless. Why on earth do you persist? It's been months since I read or responded to any of your nonsense, and I can say that it's quite easy to ignore you. I have much better ways to spend my time, and I'm truly sorry that you don't.

I don't live in Baltimore (haven't since 1976), but I'm still passionate about the Birds. But I don't get all this yammering about having local media guys. If being from the city whose teams you write (or talk) about is the criteria for excellence, thten the HUGE majority of quality sports voices and writers around the country would be labelled "bad" by some of the posters here. It is not now, and really never was, the job of the sports media to be fans or the local teams. As a matter of fact, I hated Harry Carey and his ilk: shameless homers. Give me the Vin Scully's and Bob Prince's and Ernie Harwell's, those guys. I don't want lack of interest, mind you, from my sports guys, but if Peter or any of these media you are ripping are not screaming O's or Ravens fans, it's probably better. Here in the Denver area, 95% of the media are such Bronco homers that it's nauseating to listen to them yak away, fawning over players, game after game.

Colorado Oriole -

Have you ever listened to Hawk Harrelson and Darrin Johnson do a White Sox game?

If not, try to imagine two 12-year-old girls talking about their favorite players while watching a Sox game. Then multiply the lack of professionalism by 1,000. Toss in a few obnoxious catch phrases and you've got Hawk and DJ.

Of course, it is pretty hilarious when Hawk yells "GET UP BALL! STRETCH!" on a fly ball that the outfielder catches before the warning track. And listening to a full 30 seconds of dead air after the opposing team stopped a White Sox rally is quite peaceful.

Moving on...

I'll second jim's suggestion. I'd love to see old wayne grow some balls and actually ask a question at FanFest this year. What was the excuse last year, wayne? The organization knows who you are and purposefully avoided you, right?

Also, wayne, I hope you've got your patented off season report copied somewhere. It would be a pain to have to type that out four times a day when you could just copy and paste it. Just a suggestion, if you're not already doing so.

Hey Pete,

I don't know what kind of conspiracy you think you're running around here, but it sure does suck. Kim Jong Il would have had you shot by now. Jesse Ventura's show couldn't even get enough footage to run a promo about The Sun being in cahoots with Angelos. You let all these cyber terrorists attack the mighty State of Angelos paper and reveal all the dirty little secrets. Please tell me there are snipers on their way to quiet the insurgency out there.

Now ESPN and the national news media, now they know how to run a conspiracy. They plant these quotes from agents and players where Baltimore isn't listed on the places marquee players would allow themselves to be traded or the whoppers like how the Orioles weren't getting their calls returned from agents like Scott Boras when Mark Texeira was just dying to come back to Baltimore. No one really believes Vlad or Konerko turned down more money here to sign elsewhere before do they? Angelos got to Rosenthal, Buster Olney, Tim Kurkjian and others when they were in the area. They're all bought and paid for and they keep the line going. That's why the Orioles don't get ripped nationally the same way they do by local fans here. Pete has failed in his conspiracy that was his only ticket back to SoCal where he could have spent the fall writing about how Tejada would put San Diego over the top for a World Series if only they could ditch that anchor at first base before the trade deadline had expired.

Seriously though, I still read the blog and I have focused on other things besides the trenches here. It's deja vu all over again with the whining (their's not your's).

I think it's funny though when you see what another "mid-market" team got for an actual Cy Young winner compared to what the O's got for an future Operating Room frequent flyer like Bedard. Say what you will about AM, but he hasn't given talent away. This year's moves aren't a step backwards even if it's not a leap forward. Some people need to remember reality. They want to talk about our peers like they are blowing the doors off. Team's like the A's can't even win in the AL West. Be worried if you're in Tampa where you're losing the pieces you built success on or even Toronto where there is nothing going on at all, but I feel pretty good about where I sit at my house in Baltimore. Heck, you can even be worried if you're in New York and the Bank of Steinbrenner should be looking to lay off tellers since no one wants to take out any money.

Anyway, you're right Pete. The ledge is awfully crowded again this year already. Some just need to jump and be over it, but the rest should relax ...or protest the BCS a while.

Hey nb,

This is an easy one...... Go back to the archives and see what Gill wrote about FanFest, and how the interview session with AM was conducted. You don't have to like me, but I think you respected Gil. You may want to check it out, even though the truth doesn't usually fly around here.

As for posters suggesting I believe this town is missing area homers, well.... you again missed the point. You can be a homegrown member of the media without being an extreme homer.. Leave it to nb to bring up Hawk and DJ.

All I'm talking about is unbiased reporting. Being from Baltimore would only help with the passion. The kind of passion that's missing from guys like Pete and Viviano. And again..... I'm talking about Mr. Steadman. John was soft when he needed to be, but he let the teams have it when warranted.

Currently, there is no one at the Sun who's unbiased. Fact! No one holds the team accountable for underperforming, underspending, and undercaring.

If they did, you would occasionally see someone do some real analysis... some real reporting.

And here you go nb. But sir, it's NOT a report card. It's also not an opinion.... This is simply what it is.... simply the facts as presented....

HERE ARE YOUR 2011 ADDITIONS TO YOUR BALTIMORE ORIOLES.....

3B - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT '10 BEHIND HIM

SS - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT '09 AND '10 BEHIND HIM

RP - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT '08, '09 AND '10 BEHIND HIM

UT - PROJECT WHO WANTS TO PUT MUCH OF HIS CAREER BEHIND HIM

1B - SOON TO BE PROJECT OR FILLER.

* BONUS *

NOT ONE POSITION PLAYER IN THE MINORS WORTH SPEAKING OF SINCE AM JOINED THE O'S 4 YEARS AGO.

Again all, not an opinion..... all facts pertaining to the new 2011 Baltimore Orioles.

wayne -

I only brought up Hawk and DJ because CO Oriole was talking about broadcasters.

Broadcasters and reporters aren't even close to similar. Heck, could you even imagine a newspaper column by Hawk Harrelson? With all of the "OMG's" and "LOL's" it would be much closer to a facebook status update than a newspaper article.

I don't really have much of an opinion on the hometown/not hometown reporter thing anyway. Probably because I don't live in Baltimore any more. Who knows? Who cares?

And I don't buy into the "the O's would change if the media pressured them" bit either. Nestor Aparicio pressured the O's, and he got his press pass rescinded. Now, he rails against the O's and holds his fun little rallies and such and guess what? He's got about 2,000 people on his side and they haven't made a difference.

Regardless of what they do, the media isn't going to change Peter Angelos. He's consistently ranked among the worst owners in professional sports and his stadium doesn't draw fans any more. Don't you think that, if he really cared, he would have done something about it by now?

Moving on...

On the AM Q&A at last year's FanFest, I can't believe I remember this, but I recall Gil saying something about the lead "question" being the only one that wasn't asked by a genuine fan.

Either way, don't make excuses, wayne. You tell all of us every day that we shouldn't accept excuses from the Orioles, so why should we accept excuses from you?

Hey Not Brooks,

I agree with you 100%, White Sox announcers are terrible. They are homers to be sure through and through! In fact, during one Orioles game in 2009 the one fellow said during a pop fly in foul territory.... I hope he drops it! I never heard anything like that from any announcer anywhere except the White Sox.
It's funny how we agree sometimes.

Sorry nb, you'll have to look it up. GIl explained it better than I could. No big deal if you'd rather not.

Speaking of FanFest. It was hilarious how people believed that because 10k people showed up for an event in the middle of winter, such suggested fan excitement. Ummm, not so much.

The O's 2010 attendance proved that the only excitement brought on by FanFest is the fact that it's something different to do (inside) while it's below freezing outside.

Hey Z,

Any updates.... I mean Pete says you give them all the time. Nevermind, I'll just check espn.

All,

Great article describing the O's

http://isportsweb.com/2010/12/27/why-is-birdland-getting-snubbed/

Wayne,

What source do you use for your facts? You state that each player is a 'project'. Please state the source for that fact for each player. ESPN? Sporting News? Just state your source.

Also, where is this fact that the Sun is biased? A statement like that, by nature of the word 'bias', is an opinion. Maybe the Sun doesn't light up AM or PA the way you'd like. But again, that's your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to.

But as Pete says, stop acting like you're the only one who knows anything. Quite frankly, you really don't know a thing - you simply state the obvious and then complain ad nauseum about it. You compalined about how AM was not a good GM (wow, there's something we didn't know..) and said how you couldn't wait for Buck to be in charge of all player decisions. Now that Buck is involved, as everyone here knew he would be, you still complain about the player personnel. But do you reference Buck and his input? No, you somehow forget to reference that. Buck seems fairly high one Reynolds (not a fact, but an opinion, and one shared by others).

We know you want a new GM. Most of us do, and some of us don't think it matters until we get a new owner. But we also realize that is not happening any time soon either.

So in the meantime, or at least for 2011, can you separate fact from opinion, and maybe, just maybe, stop the redundant, overbearing, pompous, and unenlightening posts?

Thank you!

PeteyPablo,

Thanks for the layup.........

Of course when I use the word 'project', it's an opinion. But sir, when you see the stats of the players mentioned, what word would you use?

I'm open to any word you come up with.

I actually got the idea from Pete, who wrote a piece about how Reynolds couldn't wait to put '10 behind him. Well if Reynolds feels that way, then Hardy must feel similar about '09 and '10, and it stands to reason that Accardo would love to put '08, '09 and '10 behind him. No?

Just seems like 'Project' fits these fine pick ups by AM.

Please however, enlighten me with the proper word to use.

Thanks

Petey -

I don't think you'll find an article explicitly labeling Reynolds or Hardy as a project (and you certainly won't get a link out of wayne), but it's fairly obvious that neither of them is a sure thing going into 2011. Unless you're talking about a veteran who has performed year in and year out, any guy who's coming off a down year or two can be referred to as a "project" without much argument against the label.

FYI, here are articles about Reynolds and Hardy from Fangraphs*:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mark-reynolds-trade-baltimores-end/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-j-j-hardy-trade-baltimores-side/

(*Note that Fangraphs is all about WAR (Wins above replacement) and determining if a player is going to be worth what a team is paying for him. As a stat geek, I'll let you know that a lot of you probably won't like what you'll get from Fangraphs. But that's the kind of baseball intel I subscribe to, so that's the link you'll get from me.)

After you get past Reynolds and Hardy, I don't think there's much point to arguing whether or not Accardo and Harris are "projects".

Big contracts destroy bullpens and Accardo is the type of low-risk signing that makes sense for a team like the Orioles. I'll take seven Jeremy Accardos for a million bucks each over one Kevin Gregg (or Mike Gonzalez or Chad Bradford or Jamie Walker or Danys Baez) on a mulit-year deal any day of the week.

Finally, Harris was clearly a low-impact salary dump move. Is he even on the major league roster? The fact that wayne even mentions Harris (and Accardo for that matter) in his off season "project" report is pretty silly.

And, for the record, I'd absolutely love to see the O's sign LaRoche now. Not because I think he's a difference maker, but because I want to see wayne's reaction.

Nothing but layups tonight.. Ugh!

nb, why would I send a link if I admit that it's my opinion? You see that, right?

You guys use whatever words you'd like. Fact is, Reynolds says himself that he'd like to put '10 behind him... not my words guys.

And if Hardy isn't a project, I'm not sure who is. The hope in the warehouse is that he returns to his '08 form. No?

And nb, come on bro.... I list Accardo and Harris simply because they're part of the new crop. Heck, I wouldn't mind a few Accardo's myself. I get players like him.... problem is though, he was featured by the Sun, and was on the O's front page for over a week. When it comes to AM, this is a big time acquisition.

As for LaRoche, I'd love to get him at this point. While he's not a project, he's an average player that other teams are considering. In fact, in AM's world, it would be like acquiring AG.

You know I'm right nb. Goodnight sir.....

wayne -

I basically agreed with you that Reynolds and Hardy are "projects". It's all semantics though. I said "it's fairly obvious that neither of them is a sure thing going into 2011". Not much of a difference there, buddy.

And considering what you said about Accardo, it seems like we're on the same page there.

You know how I feel about Andy, wayne. Sure, I've reserved a bit more hope than you for some of the guys he's acquired, but I certainly don't think he's the right guy for this team, and he certainly hasn't done the job he promised to do when he got here.

Wow, dude, talk about being argumentative.

" ... you again missed the point ..." - wayne

Actually, I didn't miss your point. I even quoted you and addressed your very point.

" ... there is no one at the Sun who's unbiased. Fact! No one holds the team accountable for underperforming, underspending, and undercaring ..." - wayne

Just so I am not misunderstood, I simply disagree with you.

In fact somewhere in one of your posts -- maybe in this thread, maybe in some other when you were saying the same thing -- you admitted as much but lamented in some way it wasn't good enough. For you.

That's fine. That's your opinion. I disagree. That's my opinion. And you saying fact doesn't redefine it as being a fact.

I don't agree with Peter on different aspects of the approach taken (and the approach not taken) by Andy MacPhail and/or Peter Angelos with this team. But that doesn't get me looking for a magic bullet or a shooter on the grassy knoll.

I simply understand Peter and I disagree.

I also understand you and I will disagree. As such, I will let you have the last word.

undercaring is a real word?
underbelievable.
but considering the source, not
underexpected

under the care of a competent professional

ahhh, that makes sense

"Again all, not an opinion..... all facts "

"Of course when I use the word 'project', it's an opinion."

We all know these are your opinions, but again, you act like some authority on the O's. You're not.

As for these players being projects, I don't consider Reynolds one. He is what he is - a power hitter who strikes out 40% of the time. The articles NB posted actually paint Reynolds and Hardy in a favorable light. Harris is a has-been, he'll probably be cut in spring training.

The problem is still PA. AM is a conservative, low-risk GM. That's exactly what PA wants. The last thing he'll do is allow a trade for a player who's peaking and will require a huge long-term deal. Even if AM wanted him, you really think PA would allow that? C'mon...

You keep squabbling over AM and players. The issue is with PA.

Layups? How about Buck? He's in on it too now. Just ask Wedge.

Petey,

No, I don't believe Buck is in on it.

Since Buck was nowhere near AM's first choice (something even the Sun acknowledged), do you actually believe he has final say on any moves AM ponders?

Wedge wasn't a joke. That's who AM wanted. He was by far, AM's first choice. You work for a corporation? If so, I'm sure you see and deal with politics throughout. Now think about this situation....then consider if you truly believe Buck is helping to make decisions.

And seeing how Buck operates, especially given his history.... do any of you truly believe Buck and AM are working as a team?

Reynolds, by himself. Hardy, by himself. Accardo, by himself..... Any of these players by themselves are certainly justifiable. But when you truly think about it, do you actually believe Buck buys into all of them, together......with no answer at 1B?

Come on.....

And Jim,

I like 'undercaring'. It fit the purpose at the time. Besides, it got you thinking and posting about it..... I love when that happens.

nb,

Fair enough

i think Hardy fits the Buck profile- a real good defensive shortstop with a bit of pop. Granted, needs to stay healthy.

Reynolds is what Petey said. The Os got a righthanded power hitter with adequate defensive skills who can change a game with one swing. No arguing they needed that.

They got both of these guys for a few relievers, only one who figured in the 2011 plans. Good trades, both.

I guess we can assume that Buck took the job knowing what he was getting into , if you feel the need to characterize it like that. I don't. He's a baseball lifer, a professional who's been successful everywhere he's been. You think that he knows what he's doing? He didn't take this job so he could bump heads with a GM on the way to failure. What, do you,
actually think the guy didn't do his homework on the ENTIRE organization before taking the job? That would be unlike him, wouldn't it? Hey, maybe it was Buck who suggested he jump right in to the fray in August? I mean, the guy is the first manager here in a while that has been able to bring in an entirely new coaching staff- his own!!
So I'll propose that for you to propose that he has some contentious relationship with the GM a few months into his tenure here and has no say in the type of player that puts on the uniform is a bit silly given his history.

So, let me get this straight.......

AM's well into his 4th year. Not his first. Not his second. Not his third....... but his FOURTH year, yet........

....even average stiffs like LaRoche and Gregg won't come to Baltimore?

Add that to the fact that there are ZERO. Not one. Not two. Not three.....but ZERO position players worth mentioning in the minors......

...and this is the guy so many of you (including PETE) are thankful for?

Do you ever stop to consider how embarrassing this organization is?

How can you not?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: That's easy. Because we have you to do it for us.

I'm sorry, but this off-season as of this writing gets an "Incomplete", at best.

Trade for Reynolds: okay, in that we needed a 3rd Baseman with some power. Whether he'll be able to rebound from last season's struggles remains to be seen. Also, his acquisition came at the cost of 2 "arms", which makes its value to the team all the more unclear.

Trade for Hardy: okay, in that we needed a shortstop with a bigger bat. Hardy had a career year offensively in 2008; it's uncertain whether he'll be able to return to this former glory. Harris as a throw-in: negligible.

Jeremy Accardo: good in 2007, inconsistent since.

Bringing Koji back: good, but bringing back an oft-injured player can hardly be seen as a major signing.

A veteran starting pitcher has yet to be signed. I'm not sure that Guthrie is up to the challenge of being our # 1 starter (he wasn't in 2009) so another veteran arm may be needed.

A big-slugging 1st Baseman has yet to be signed. We could not or would not outbid other teams for the likes of V-Mart and Adam Dunn, so we are left with making a run at one of the second-tier or third-tier free agents remaining. So much for buying the bats.

This last non-signing is of concern both because it shows the FO's reticence for "overspending" and because the absence of a big bat in the middle of the line-up may continue to drain the power out of Nick Markakis's bat, among other things.

When you factor in the empty chase for a closer, this FO has a long way to go.

It took a minor late-season miracle for this team to eke out 66 wins in 2010, so while we MAY have upgraded at 3rd and short, we have a long way to go before we are to be considered "competitive", at least on paper.

I'd be thrilled if the O's were to win 85 games in 2011, but when you consider that the th-place in the A.L. East had 85 wins, you realize that this team has a long way to go.

"...there are ZERO. Not one. Not two. Not three.....but ZERO position players worth mentioning in the minors......" -wayne

Manny Machado, Mychal Givens, LJ Hoes, Xavier Avery, Jonathan Schoop...

Just because you can't/won't name any, wayne, doesn't mean there aren't any worth mentioning...

What makes them worth mentioning CIH?

They're names..... names that no one is particularly excited about, unless you're an employee of the O's.

Fact is, well into AM's 4th year, there is no one even close to be ready to step in at key positions like 1B 3B, SS, etc..... and you know it.

Every year, EVERY team can list some names from down under. The fact that those are the names you had to pull out of a hat suggest how dead on I really am.

How many years are you going to wait Chis? 10 perhaps? Ask a typical Cub fan how that worked out for them.... After his decade in ChiTown, even AM admitted he 'failed'... his word, not mine.

So keep naming names CIH....

Pete,

You're dawn right. if you won't, someone has to.

Chris -

It should be noted that all of the guys that you mentioned are 21 or younger and only Hoes and Avery have played above A-ball.

Perhaps wayne should change the minor league part of his daily rant to "ZERO position players worth mentioning in the high minors."

wayne -

Since you probably haven't done a minutes worth of research on any of the players Chris mentioned, your "they're just names" argument is beyond stupid.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that Machado, Givens, et al rank higher than any other organizations prospects. In fact, when Baseball America, Keith Law and Jonathan Mayo put together their 2011 Top 100 prospect rankings, Machado's probably the only Oriole position player with a shot at making the cut. What I'm saying is that "they're just names" is the most hollow rebuttal of all time.

Until you actually come up with some substance in your rebuttals, wayne, they're going to remain just as meaningless as ever.

@nb

I know, nb, but sometimes it's more fun to be just as vague as wayne in order to push his buttons.

His response was exactly what I expected.

Thanks nb and CIH for helping to make my point......

...better than I ever could have.

Odds are, maybe one of these dudes will ever make the majors....

All part of AM's genius.

Right on cue boys

Face it, wayne, you got PLAYED.

Hey CIH,

Congrats... you now have an imposter as well...... unless you were at at around 6:30am.... which I guess you could have been.

Congrats anyway

This just in, fellas:

According to wayne, only one in five minor leaguers will ever make it to the majors.

Until now, it was thought that at least 137% of minor leaguers would go on to become successful major league players.

This new learning, first reported by wayne (as most things are), is supposedly "all part of [Baltimore GM Andy MacPhail's] "genius". Whether or not wayne and MacPhail were in on this together is not yet know.

Baseball fans all over the world wish they could understand wayne's new line of thinking (which comes from higher levels of intelligence, understanding and foresight) but, it is much too difficult for the common man to grasp.

For more of wayne's world-renowned wisdom and unparalleled sagacity, peruse his essays of incontrovertible truth at Baltimore Sun columnist Peter Schmuck's blog, The Schmuck Stops Here.

Thanks nb,

Most likely however, none of the players CIH mentioned will ever truly make it. In fact... it's AM's MO. Look it up - and I know you will.

Again though... I couldn't have made my own point better than how you and CIH made it for me.

Bottom line... nothing I've said, about the incoming crop or the position players in the minors is incorrect.

I know.. I KNOW.... you hate it when I'm right. But nb.... I give myself ZERO credit. Most see what I see, as it's an undebatable subject.

No thanks wayner. I tripped into trying to prove that this executive or that executive doesn't know how to draft, and it's a slippery slope.

I don't think anyone here would argue that Billy Beane is a top notch executive, and some info that Chris posted over at O's Insider shows that even the A's have made quite a few drafting "mistakes" over the past several years.

The draft is waaaaay to much of a crapshoot and the percentage of minor leaguers that make it to the bigs is waaaaay to low to argue with any certainty about how good this guy or that guy is at drafting. Sure, there are some great examples of teams screwing up, but most of them aren't even noticeable until you have the benefit of hindsight. I'd love to hear someone tell me that they knew the Orioles should have drafted Tim Lincecum over Billy Rowell back in 2005 or whatever. I doubt many O's fans even knew who Lincecum was back then (and, in fact, he was a guy that a lot of teams passed on because of worries about his size and the repeatability of his delivery).

The only time you can really say that someone screwed up a draft pick is when it's plain to see that the pick was all about signability over ability (ie: Hobgood). And the O's track record, at least over the past few years, actually favors spending big on top picks (Wieters and Machado got $5MM+ bonuses and Matusz got a big league contract).

Moving on...

I don't care whether you're right or wrong, buddy. All I care about is whether the O's win or not. And that used to be all you cared about. It's clearly not anymore.

I'm sure you like to think you're real humble and everything wayne, but don't you find it ironic that, in one sentence you say "nothing I've said is incorrect" and then in the next you say "I give myself ZERO credit"?

Nice.

nb,

Clearly, when I said 'nothing I've said is incorrect', I was saying it was no big accomplishment when I said 'I give myself zero credit'.

Fact is nb, anyone who sees with an unbiased eye, can easily come up with the same observations.

As for drafting, I can't disagree with you. Obviously, it's a crap shoot for every organization.

What makes it particularly noticeable for this team though, is our head of baseball not only drafts poorly, he has a reputation for being the worst (I mean the absolute worst) with free agent acquisitions. It's just not in him.

There's a reason this guy lost more games than anyone in his type of position for the past two decades. Sure, you'll find a good pick up here and there, but when your track record for drafting, as well as free agent acquisitions are as dismal as AM's, then .... well, this is what you get,

Well into is 4th year, they had to get a home run hitting 3B who batted 198 last season, A SS who hasn't been on the field most parts of the past two seasons, and a remarkable hole remaining at the other corner.... all the while, there's no one to even consider bringing up from the minors.,,, and that just touches onthe holes on this team.

Again nb, there's a reason AM has been so horrible since the internet came into play. The game passed him long ago..... and we're left to watch while the local media gushes over him solely due to the O's advertising pockets.

I hate being so bunt.... but anything else is pure spin.

Sorry