Considering the trouble some of the other top AFC contenders had this past week in winning their games, you'd think we'd be happy controlling a game from start to finish. Unimpressive? Just win (cry)baby...

I guess the Buffalo win looks better today after watching the Stellers=Bills go to OT

A win is a win.

8-3 and first place.

Do you see an asterisk for "unimpressive" anywhere in the standings?

Nope.

Just like there are none for Carolina's "impressive" losses.

Quit crying because the brick of gold is so heavy and relize it's a brick of frickin gold.

Speaking of unimpressive....USC.
Lane Kiffin. What a joke.

I can't wait, it won't get here soon enough. I bought these tickets in August with the exact thought that our division was going to come down to this one. I'm sticking to my prediction... Ravens, AFC North Champs, 12-4. I hope they don't let me down!

I can't wait, it won't get here soon enough. I bought these tickets in August with the exact thought that our division was going to come down to this one. I'm sticking to my prediction... Ravens, AFC North Champs, 12-4. I hope they don't let me down!

Copy and paste warning from Instant Analysis:

Perhaps this was a convincing performance in that we should be convinced the Ravens know how to win even if it lacks an identity. The Ravens needed comeback wins because they couldn't start well. Now, they're winning games in the first half. The Ravens needed to outscore their opponents because you couldn't count on the defense. Now, the Ravens have a D that they can count on even if it isn't 2000 all over again. The Ravens are beating good teams and are undefeated at home. No one has shown them up and all three losses had elements where the Ravens have improved. I'm not sure I'm a subscriber to momentum but the team knows how to win and is doing so. Injuries may be the biggest worry. Next game is PIT and guess what -- they needed OT to beat BUF, too.

Bonus supplement I: All SB teams know how to win. The Ravens know how to win.

Bonus supplement II: Not all SB's were things of beauty. In fact, most weren't. With no dominating teams this year (despite quite a few with seven or more wins), knowing how to win may be the most important component.

Bonus supplement III: I think it would have been foolish to expect a pretty win against TB. I had BAL by 5 (although I also had a few more points each). OAK had a pretty win a couple weeks ago. That seems awfully unimportant now. Tony Banks lit up JAX in 2000 and was a bystander for the second half of that season along with the playoffs, too.

(Ahem) Don't look now but PIT is coming to town. You know, the team who looked not so pretty beating BUF in OT. Sound familiar?

Oops, I repeated myself after my cut-and-paste segment. Sorry.

Pete 8 and 3 should be very happy but i don't see one bit of improvement from this team heading down the streach. We have to be the worst tackling team in the league, the yards the opposition gets after the catch is astonishing. Our offensive line is so banged up right now i truly don't believe it can stand up to the blitz packages the steelers will be sending at them.I am really tired of everybody telling us fans that the league is flawed and everybody is on the same scale.New england might be flawed on defense but there offense is way better then the ravens, new orleans might be flawed, but there offense more then makes up for it. Anyway pete i could go on and on but we are 8 and 3 and everybody is happy. Somehow i have never been so unsatisfied , however i know it's just me that feels that way.

blancione,

Relax, you could live in Detroit, Buffalo, etc..... Those teams are the Baltimore Orioles of Football, and you of all people, know how that feels.

Enjoy the 8-3. Enjoy the fact that this team yet again, is playing very meaningful games in December.

Meaningful games for your home team is all one can ask for in sports today. And we have that consistently with the Ravens.

Meanwhile, it's been so long for the O's that meaningful and Orioles should never even be said in the same sentence.

So please..... enjoy what you're watching with the Ravens.

And hey Pete..... How's Free Agency going for the O's so far? Or better put, how that rebuilding plan you're so happy about? You know the one.....

...where AM has been here over 3 years and we STILL have ZERO corners. Plus, we need a shortstop and who knows what to expect from 2B this year. And how about LF Pete? Want to talk about how great Pie is?

And while you're at it, can you ask Z to do another FA update? Can't wait....

This is an example of an aggressive move, Peter! This is the complete opposite of what Andy M has done for the Orioles in the past and currently doing right now. Which is nothing!

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/251594-marlins-make-unprecedented-move

Wayne, under proper circumstances you would be 100% right but i will tell you right now that this team will lose 3 maybe 4 of there last 5 games. Then i want everybody that has come on here and dialed every talk show in this town not to change direction and say i knew it was going to happen.

Not saying you're wrong blancione.....

You may be 100% correct in fact. All I'm saying is... at least they're in position for a legitimate run. That's all you can ask.

Did you see the Steelers game yesterday? Only pure luck got them the W. I can't remember a dude dropping that kind of perfect pass in that kind of situation. If the Ravens had won that way (and they've won their share of games that could have gone either way), everyone would be screaming that this team isn't for real.

Did you see the Jets against Cleveland and Detroit?

All I'm saying is that is a brutal league, one that is hard to consistently compete in.

But at least the Ravens give us something to hold onto each year. Something the O's never do.

So even if they do lose 3 or 4 more games, at least they were meaningful.

And that's all I ask for.....

Rebuild of O's looks pretty good considering we were one of the best teams in baseball for the last two months of last season. I'd say the thing is coming to fruition....you know "turned the corner" and all.....plus we've not even begun seeing what moves the two-headed brain trust of Macphail and Buck have in store.

Still don't get why Buck hasn't shipped off more of Macphails players yet though?

smitty... up Pete's you know what - like usual.

Rebuilding? How long has AM been here?

Zero corners
No SS
Question at 2nd
Nothing in LF (go ahead and tell me about Pie)
RF - AM had nothing to do with.
CF - All AM
C - AM gets minimal credit.

AND NO REAL POSITION PLAYERS TO SPEAK OF IN THE MINORS.... AS IN NONE.

SP - Bergy, Arietta, Guthrie. Sorry - were already here. Matusz and Tillman - All AM, with one working out, the other not so much.
Closer - Please

I mean just a rebuilding masterpiece smitty and Pete.
But AM did win 2 rings before there was an internet...right smitty my boy?

You must be Pete's intern. There's no other explanation for two people being so ridiculously off base, not to mention, constantly wrong.

AGAIN....

1B - Zero (as in no one)
2B - Question mark
SS - Who's at SS?
3B - Zero (as in no one)
LF - Pie (look at injury and stats. Becoming a joke)
CF - All AM (congrats)
RF - Was already here

Position players of note in the minors - NONE (as in Zero)...

SP - Guthrie, Bergy, Arietta, Hernandez (Were already here). Matusz (congrats AM), Tillman (not so much)
Closer - Another brilliant pick up.

Manager - All about PA. Where's Wedge?

AM's 2 rings - Prior to the Internet.

Worst Exec record for last 2 decades - AM

Smitty and Pete (happy with the above rebuilding program)

Do I need to repeat it again?

The Ravens are changing from a defensively dominant team with a weak offense to something more of a well rounded team. It's hard for the team to fit that "identity" it used to have.
We're still winning games and the Steelers are going to have to show up and so will every other team we face for the rest of the season.
Blancione, why are you so mad?
Wayne, everyone knows that the O's will again look weak on paper. But where do good young players emerge from? They don't emerge if they already look great on paper. I'm not saying Andy MacPhail is a genius and I agree it certainly doesn't look like a winning team, I won't believe a winning record until 162 games are done and over with.
Still, I feel like something might be truly different for the 2011 team.

I'm just looking at the FACT that we were one of the best teams in baseball over the last two months of last season. That's a pretty good sample size. I'm expecting that to continue and even improve with the moves we make this offseason.
Have a good winter though and work on some new stuff.

As for the fact of being one of the best teams over the last two months. It was more likely, just as in horse racing, the Orioles were passing tired foes!

I'm expecting that to continue and even improve with the moves we make this offseason.

What moves? Andy Mac sashaying over to the tea and crimpet cart, that's set up in his office, every afternoon at 4 PM sharp. I really don't forsee any major move by the O's. Unless a miracle happens!

Lastly as for Wayne's material ("New")
maybe if he watches classic Rodney Dangerfield or "Current" Frank Caliendo there would be some hope for him.
As Terry B would say "Now that's Funny!"

It's that time of year again!

Delusional as always, smitty's putting stock in a two month run and expecting a big off season move from Slowy McWaitandsee while begging wayne for new material...

Wayno is just happy that he can still get under smitty's skin after all this time (and that the Ravens are 8-3, cheers to that!)...

And last but certainly not least, old bob can't wait to be right, even if that means that his football team loses four of its last five games...

Yup, it's that time of year again, folks!

No question that it's groundhogs day around here (i've obviously said that before as well)..

I DESPERATELY want to give you all new material. But as I watch AM doing his same ole same ole, I'm left with no choice.

AM has a blueprint... It's there for everyone to see. SInce the Internet was invented, his record for off season moves is well documented. No exec has failed more than this exec. Period and end.

Then Pete comes on and says he's 'thankful for AM's rebuilding'?

I'm sorry, but that's simply irresponsible reporting, or comments from who is suppose to be an unbiased source from this towns only newspaper.

Sorry, but it's to the point that it can't even be debated.

Say it ain't so Chris In Hawaii, De La Rosa is off "DA" market........ NO......... what are the Orioles to do..... LOL

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/11/jorge_de_la_rosa_comes_off_the.html

I am coming to terms with the fact that this year will go down as the "Year of Ugly Wins."

Hey wait a minute, hasn't that been the story most Ravens seasons--including the Super Bowl run?

Flacco has improved, but he still has "happy feet" (short studder steps and jumping from side to side) and he still hesitates most of the times he goes over the middle--with exceptions like the Mason T. D.

Squirrel,

If de la Rosa sports anything worse than a 3.50 ERA by the end of the 2011 season, I will buy you 50 acorns.

SIgned by the Rockies..... in that HUGE market.

Check another one off Z.

But hey, we can always re-sign Millwood. That would make folks like Pete happy. After all, Kevin is such a good guy.

Go get em AM

Anyone who thinks starting pitching is a priority on this team is well....not quite informed.
Thanks nb but really he doesn't "get under my skin". Some people aim for that and you just have to fly over it.

You really think the last two months were a mirage huh? I don't.
The starting pitching is maturing around the same time and there'sore in pipeline. Everyone knew it was a weak free agent class and I expect a trade or two. We are in good hands of course because they don't give 2 World Series rings to lousy executives. Even before the Civil War when AM won his you still had to make good moves.You have to play meaningful games in September to get those. lol Of course we need to make some moves and of course we will.
Take Care and keep your chin up. It's only Novem.....well it's only December

Oh gotta get back in the groove, That was me at 8:53

No De La Rosa !!!
We are doomed I tell ya Dooooommmmed!!!!

Have a nice winter.
Sign Koji and Izruris and Millwood and then we have the 12 games over 500 team reassembled....Yeah that'll do it!

Anyone who doesn't think that starting pitching should be a priority of this team is, well, not quite informed.

This team is in dire need of a young starter in his prime who can lead the rotation. Guthrie isn't that guy, we tried going down that road once and it didn't work out. Matusz could be that guy, but if you really want him to develop into what he could be, you don't want the pressure of being an ace right away on his shoulders.

Moving on from the ace/staff leader... If you're going into 2011 expecting big years from Arrieta and Bergesen, you're setting yourself up to be disappointed.

This team would have done well to sign Jon Garland or someone like that for the right price. They would do even better to throw in some chips to acquire a young top notch starter. Sure, those kind of guys don't come easy, but you've got to give up something to get something (and no, Michael Aubrey and Nolan Reimold don't count as "something").

But, of course, the smittys of the world, which probably make up 80% of the fanbase, are content to sit and watch Arrieta and Bergesen develop despite the fact that neither of them are put in a position to succeed. The smittys out there are fine with watching he Derrek Lees of the world wind their careers down while weighing this team down because the Adam Dunns of the world strike out too much (nevermind the 40 homers and the .380 OBP). And the smittyfans are fine with watching a Josh Bell flounder in the bigs because Adrian Beltre is too expensive.

Well, guess what smitty. It's fans line you who let this viscious cycle continue. And after Derrek Lee and Ty Wigginton are the highlights of the winter and after Chris Tillman struggles as the fifth starter and after the O's finish 73-89, you'll be on like a broken record next winter: "This guy is too expensive. We don't need this guy because we have his guy. This guy has too many flaws." Seriously, my friend, listen to yourself. Don't you remember what happened last winter and the winter before and et cetera? How are things ever going to change if you keep making the same old excuses over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over again?

Oops, now I sound like a broken record. Good night.

smitty,

You're lovable, your naive and you're a dumdum.

Let's go through each team in baseball and find their best two months so we can see what that team is really all about.

The fact that you want to resign Millwood, who was statistically (not even including his w/l record) the 2nd worst in the major league, actually defines the kind of guy you are....

And no, AM's rings were not prior to the civil war. There's absolutely no reason to exaggerate when the plain facts tell the tale. Just saying prior to the internet paints the most accurate, HONEST picture.

Meanwhile, No corners, no SS, a suspect 2b, no LF'er, a RF'er who regressed under AM and a C he didn't really have much to do with.

Meanwhile, most of the rotation was already in the system, and his hand picked closer still has other organizations laughing.

All this...and there's not one position player in the minors worth talking about. As in NONE... as in ZERO.

And the manager, who was responsible for the 2 months you refer to isn't the guy AM wanted......

And the man will be entering his 4th year in 2011.

Now go sign those guys who were on the team that was 12 games over 500 for 2 months.... the same players's who were on the team that was actually THIRTY games under 500 in 2010.

Be honest about the facts smitty. Don't be like Pete

Wow nb....

You just did the impossible. You actually depressed me about this team more than I already was.

And you were spot on concerning dumdum.

Yatzeeee

I made a post at Ravens Insider putting some perspective -- real perspective with real stats -- in the Numbers of Note section that will probably get posted since it isn't being screened by "a Baltimore native [who] has been covering sports for 14 years, " blah blah blah ... it doesn't say what the virtual barkeep has been covering it with ...

Anyway, the last four games by the Ravens have been far more impressive than the last four games by the Steelers, and the Ravens had a tougher schedule during that span.

I didn't try another ill-fated copy-and-paste.

And since the Orioles are back to dawdling with no timetable after under-bidding on Samuel and Martinez, I have no comment on the great Oriole debate.

I also would like to announce I have no timetable in making my next Oriole comment but I am confident 72 wins (my December Fool's Day prediction for 2011) will be an improvement fans can hang their sombrero on while taking a six-month siesta from baseball.

I'll have my virtual paloma now, barkeep. Barkeep? Oh, that's right. You're not serving me.

Yahtzee, idiot.

At least try to spell your punchline right when calling someone else a dumdum.

I can't believe that I'm saying this but Wayne is starting to sound reasonable?

What's the hold up...,,,do something AM....

nb says
"How are things ever going to change if you keep making the same old excuses over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over again?"

Actually things have changed unless you fell asleep last summer for the last two months.
You want to sign another mediocre starter???? Great, why not 2 or 3 of them so the rebuild can be set back another year or two.
Starting pitching is not a major need. I'm sure Buck and Andy feel the same way, but of course not brooks knows way more than everyone else, Are you a doctor also cause I've had this pain in my shoulder and.......

Note For those who don't understand humor I don't really want to sign Millwood and no i don't think Josh Bell is ready and I can guarantee you that he won't be playing 3rd opening day which still is several months away for those without calenders.

Hey dumdum,

Did you check to see all the teams that had good 2 month stretches last season yet?

And hey dumdum....

Who's at 1st?
Who's at SS
Who's at 3rd?
Who's in LF?
Who's after Guthrie and Matusz that can be counted on (if they can be counted on)
Who's the closer?
Who's in the middle of the order?
Where's the speed if Brob goes awol?
Who scores the runs?

30 games under 500 dumdum. THIRTY.

But hey, AM can boast that they had a good 2 month stretch because of a manager he didn't even want to bring in.

Come on dumdum....

The Squirrel has a calendar.
The Squirrel has internet access.
The Squirrel also has a fax machine.
Well at least at work I do, so I will declare it mine for now!
Plus, I can check the waiver wire everyday for such players as Cody Ross and Jeff Francoeur.GM's won't sneek that fastball by me!

And for being a furry little rodent, I can read and write fairly well.
Squirrels as a whole have come a long way since my Great Great( to the 1000th Power) Grandfather Scrat the Sqirrel was running around on this earth.
http://media.smashingmagazine.com/cdn_smash/images/funny-animations/scrat.png

Now, starting pitching is a need for the O's if they want to make a run at the division title or wildcard. Now if everyone that is employed by the O's is content with 81 & 81 or worse. Then stick with that they have. Now matter how you crack the nut, the O's don't have a true # 1. We have some pitchers that are pretty good, justnot a true # 1. Now I am going to rest because my head hurts from typing all these observations.

Oh BTW CIH, I don't need acorns, I am allergic believe it or not. However, I could use some Pineapple! I love Pineapple! MMMM Pineapple....

Ok, Squirrel, but it will probably be rotten by the time it gets to you. You can use it as cologne though.

smitty,

Starting pitching is a need. Unless you're sending out 5 Cy Youngs, it's always a need. In the case of the O's, it's a need because it is attainable and it gives the team flexibility with the younger guys. As it stands, the team can not afford to trade a young starter because you need at least one guy as depth in AAA in case of injury. That's minimum. You have your long reliever who can do spot starts, but if someone goes on the DL, you need a guy who can step up for a period of time. Ideally you have 2 guys down there, but you can live with one.

I still think a Hernandez + Scott + Mickolio for Bartlett + Garza deal is doable. It solves problems for both teams. For the Rays, they get bullpen help at low cost and some power replacement after the loss of Pena + Crawford. For the O's, they get their SS and a front rotation starter (not an Ace, but a guy who has performed against the AL East) to ease pressure off the younger guys and Guts.

Then trade some combo of Berken or Johnson, Albers or VandenHurk, and Wynn Pelzer for Mark Reynolds.

Re-sign Uehara.

Sign Johnny Damon to DH and put some fire into the younger guys.

For 1B, you go with someone like LaRoche/Pena on a 1 or 2 year deal, giving you flexibility to obtain one of the bigger name 1Bs like Fielder or Gonzalez. You'll give up one of your best young starters to do so, but at #4 next year, you can replenish the middle minors with a top young college arm. Chances are there will be some new stud and either Matt Purke or Gerrit Cole will be available at #4.

CIH
Every team wants more starting pitching. As far as need though, it's simply not in the top 5.
The order of need in my opinion is (any order for the top 3)
1. 3rd
2. 1st
3. Shortstop
4. Bullpen help (hopefully resign Koji)
5. Solid middle infielder who can adequately backup for Roberts at 2nd and leadoff.
After these 5 are done, sure you want to bring some starters to spring training

I say our starters are
Guthrie
Matusz
Bergesen
Arietta
with the 5th being either Tillman or Berken or Britton.
I will take one of those last 3 as a 5th starter over any of the mediocre free agents we could get. I wouldn't trade the above guys this year. We are transitioning from rebuilding to contending. You go again with the young guns and hope they take another step forward.
Who exactly of those first four starters should begin in AAA?
I'm glad we only signed one veteran starter last year and think that Guthrie proved he can lead a staff over the last half last year.....
Sure we should pick up some starters as spring training invitees, but as I said we have alot of other needs before that.
Take care and thanks for calling me smitty it beats dumdum but I do like me some gumgum so I just consider the source...

If you take the exteme underperformance + the extreme overperformance of 2010, the Orioles 66-96 record puts them right where they should've been all along. I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into 2 months of baseball. It looks good only because it happened the FINAL two months.....if it happened the first 2 months, I'm sure it wouldn't be all pie in the sky with some people.

smitty,

You don't have to solve your biggest needs in order. There's no MLB supermarket where you go to one aisle, pick up your 1B, go to the next aisle, get your 3B and so on. You have to work all angles at once.

Maybe, like in the trade I proposed above, you pick up a SP when you pick up a SS. Garza is indeed better than the last three you mentioned. In fact, on this staff, he'd be up there with Guthrie as the top guy. Berken excelled in the pen. Why move him back to where he struggled? And why not possibly use him to pick up a piece you're missing? Teams like Arizona and Tampa Bay are looking for affordable relievers. If they have something the O's need, and the O's can actually afford to go out and pay for a reliever or two, why not work a trade instead of getting 3B or SS leftovers?

And you can't hold on to all your young starters, see who succeeds and who fails, and then expect to get something for the guys who failed. You can always fill potential by smart drafting. Like I said, there's a good chance that the O's will be able to take an advanced college arm at spot 4 in the draft next year. That means that they could be at AAA by 2013, if not sooner. Klein could be stretched out and pitching at AAA by mid-2012.

The O's aren't gonna get better by standing pat and signing filler after filler in areas of need. They'll never catch up to the other teams in this division that way. They don't have the scouting or minor league system of Tampa Bay and they can afford to play a hybrid between what the Rays do and what the Yankees do. Baltimore can be a Boston type market. But they aren't getting there until FAs want to come here. And attracting FAs means being strong within the division. To get there means making trades and what every team wants (and we have) is young pitching. To start to "get there," you have to give some up.

And please spare the whole last 2 months of the season stuff. Yes, it was nice to put up a solid record over that time, but you know what every other team in the division is doing? They're going out and getting better. If we stand pat, if we only sign the "best we can get" from the FA market, we can watch the other teams as they pass by.

Chris,
Don't disagree with anything you said really. I'd take Cliff Lee in a heartbeat, but wouldn't sign any mediocre pitchers.
The whole thing about the last two months is that what happened was the young pitching finally came together at around the same time. That is why its encouraging. Of course you don't stand pat even if you win it all you want to get better.
I have said all along I felt we would make a trade or two to solve some issues. I still think that and we'll see.

Chris In Hawaii,

How can you say something like this?
They don't have the scouting or minor league system of Tampa Bay and they can afford to play a hybrid between what the Rays do and what the Yankees do.

I mean the Orioles have a

1.) A Squirrel
2.) You in Hawaii
3.) A Bear
4.) A Wasp
5.) Someone Named Fang

To be honest that's the tip of the iceberg!
I can only speak for myself, I am not on the Orioles payroll. But to say the Orioles don't have scouts, that simply isn't true. If anything we're an eclectic
motley bunch. I mean can the New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox say they have a smart alec squirrel as a fan that tries to advise them. The answer is no.
Plus, the Bronx is no place for a squirrel. Boston maybe, they have a nice garden up there. I think if Andy Mac starts listening to us, that will be the day when the Orioles finally move forward for good!

Oh one other thing, Pineapple as a colgne isn't really working for me. I think I have to think of something less perishable.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/white-sox-have-serious-interest-in-adam-dunn.html

Looks like more of the same since Andy moved over and Buck took over.

Batting fourth, the first baseman, Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrek Leeeeee!

Don't worry though, guys. We didn't need Dunn anyway. He strikes out too much and can't play defense. Who cares about 40 homers, a .380 OBP and serious protection for Nick Markakis?

I just hope Konerko says no fast so we don't let Pena pass by.

Good.
Lets move on.
You are right nb.
The last thing a young pitching staff like this needs is a lousy first baseman who will strike out 200 times. Lot of good it did the nationals all those home runs. Count the runs he gave up on defense and his numbers probably are right there with Luke.

The trading deadline isn't here yet is it?

smitty,

nb was being sarcastic.

I don't get what's going on here in Orioles HQ. What they heck is Andy MacFail doing, besides sharpening his pencils?

I was reading ROCH on MASN and he states: The market is playing out a lot faster than past years. The winter meetings don't start until Monday.

Well why should other teams wait for the Orioles?
What have the Orioles done differently this year to prove to FA's that they mean business about winning?
I gotta say this "OUTLOUD" MacPhail appears to be 100% clueless.
He promises the Orioles will pay extra and it looks like we are falling short not just by pocket change, we are missing by millions of dollars.

Now back to what Roch said on MASN.

MacPhail has never been known to move quickly, now the market appears to be rolling. MacPhail once again appears to be a day late and dollar short. When is this going to end?

Jeff Z appears to be on vacation from the Insider.
Schmuck is on vacation.
MacPhail looks to be out to lunch 24/7
How come no one from the Sun is questioning management's decisions?
Where is everyone? I mean I am just a lowly rodent, what can I possible do?

Aye Carumba!

Chris
I know.

December 2nd
The natives are restless.
dumdum says no dundun ok. he lefthanded he no can catch bad throws at first. He no good for 4 years at ridicerous prices....

cause were the way outs.....way out.... that's where the fun is....Way Out!!
(Flintstones)

Juuuuuuust a bit outside.

Hey PETE, I guess it's just a matter of them not wanting the O's money, RIGHT.

HEY PETE, the man missed by 16m bucks. Not 2m, not 8m, not 12m..... 16m PETE.

Still wanna stick by this loon? Still want to write lame stories defending someone who is obviously incredibly out of touch?

I kid dumdum that AM last won a ring prior to the internet. While it is true, I believe it explains why he's lost MORE games than any exec in the past two decades. He is simply out of touch with everything he does.

How about that rebuilding you're so thankful for Pete? No one at 1B, No one at SS, No one at 3B, 2B with a bad back, No one credible in LF, No closer, question marks with the starting staff.

AND, he didn't want the only good thing we have, namely Buck.

And PETE, where are your new Blog subjects? A little embarrassed perhaps? Embarrassed that you've continued to stick your neck out for this joker?

And hey Z..... Let's see that updated FA list. Love those.....

"JUUUUUUST A BIT OUTSIDE"

Squirrel,

Quite simple actually...... It's because the #1 advertiser for the Baltimore Sun Sports section is the Baltimore Orioles.

It's no longer possible to deny.....

Smitty,
cause were the way outs.....way out.... that's where the fun is....Way Out!!
(Flintstones)
That is sooooo old school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obyuyajrz9g

What on earth made you think of that song?

Wayne, not everything has to be a conspiracy. What are you saying the Orioles keep the Sun afloat and vice versa.

As for the players that the O's missed out, I am not that upset, in fact I am happy we didn't get them.

What is annoying, however if we have money for players like V Mart and Dunn. Why don't we have money for Werth? It makes no sense whatsover!

'and vice versa'? ummmmm, no squirrel.. this is a one way street. The O's use the Sun for whatever they want, but they certainly don't need them to stay afloat.

The Sun on the other hand.... well just look at the newspaper business, and then perhaps makes your own assessment.

'i am happy we didn't get them'? Of course you are. In fact that's what every AM apologist says after every FA is scooped up by someone else.

And what doesn't 'make sense' to you squirrel? Werth? Are you kidding everyone? Oh, you'll see how close the O's came after he's crossed off the list. And when he is gone, you'll be upset for a minute, then come on and try to cover for AM like you and dumdum always do.

Then, Pete will write part 2 of his 'why won't they take our money' suck-up.

And by the way, it's not about wanting Dunn or not. It's just about how out of touch AM was with his offer. He made a fool out of himself, yet again.

HE WILL NOT OUTBID ANYONE PEOPLE. HE WANTS TO BE COMISSIONER, THUS HE CAN'T HAVE THAT REPUTATION WHEN HE'S SO CLOSE TO GETTING HIS DREAM JOB.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!

JUUUUUUUST A BIT OUTSIDE

Sorry Pete,

Didn't know you were on vacation. So where does one sign up for the 8 week vacation per year plan .... wowzers!

Folks,

AM is 'PLAYING' you. He wants you to think no one wants the O's money because he's making bids for everyone. Meanwhile, he lowballs a 40 hr per year player by 16m...

GET READY FOR....

The Fillers
The losers with upside
The not ready prospects
The ex-cubbie's

Get ready people.....because these are the players you'll be getting.

YOU'RE BEING PLAYED - AND THE MEDIA'S GETTING PAID

Andy is in a coma..
Pete has disappeared...
Wayne is whining like a 2 year old...

Welcome to the Orioles Hot Stove league!

NC,

Whining......????

Wayne's delirious!!!!! Especially for him to say I am an apologist!

Good Gravy Man!

YOU'RE BEING PLAYED - AND THE MEDIA'S GETTING PAID

And whining?

Yep

But also telling the truth... It's right there for you to see.

But wait... I forgot.....

YOU'RE BEING PLAYED - AND THE MEDIA'S GETTING PLAYED

PAID I mean

Of course I mean PAID

Wanger:

You're contributing to the problem by comstantly visiting the site that's primary banner advertiser is the Evil Orioles.

Every page visit gets Pete Vaderlos money.

The White Sox added one of the game's most consistent sluggers today, locking Adam Dunn up to a four-year $56MM deal. The team has officially announced the deal.
-----
•The Orioles offered Adam Dunn a four-year deal worth about $40MM before he agreed to sign with the White Sox, according to Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun (on Twitter).

Anyone have a nutshell I can put this in?

Here's a question:

(Let me preface this by saying I am in no way trying to let the front office off the hook on low-balling Adam Dunn. Personally, I think he should have been offered 4/$50 to start, but anyway...)

Is Adam Dunn really worth that much more than whatever Jack Cust is going to get after being non-tendered (again) by the A's?

Obviously, Dunn has greater power and he'll hit about 10 more HRs given equal playing time and health, so he's gonna be worth more, but both are pretty close in K and BB rates while being brutal in the field.

Assuming Cust even gets a deal for $2 million this year, is Adam Dunn worth $12 million more than Jack Cust?

CIH,

AM and crew can ALWAYS depend on you and others to absolutely defend their ineptness.

Meanwhile, your cooky analysis doesn't take into account so many intangible's, like.......

What someone like Dunn means to the hitters surrounding him when placed in the 4 hole.

So you think Cust in the 4 hole intimidates pitchers and affects a lineup in the way that Dunn does?

You'll never get to NY with that kind of simplemindedness Chris.

He's worth what the market bares... period - as is Cust. To defend AM's actions in any way, is simple lunacy.

YOU (CIH) HAVE BEEN PLAYED.

i have nothing. another f'ed up offseason. thank you angeloser and macfail.

ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL
ANGELOSER AND MACFAIL

wayne,

It's good to see that you still have nothing in the way of anything that could feasibly be referred to as reading comprehension.

What about my preface did you not understand???

YOU (wayne) ARE PLAYED OUT.

I asked a simple question and you chose to attack me. Great job, big man.

Obviously it doesn't take much to get to NY if you're there. Just sit back and throw insults at total strangers amidst the soft glow of a computer screen, right?

wow... only 10 posts into a Football blog and people start in on the O's...

I would like to see the O's sign as many players as possible long term who put up huge numbers in their walk-year.

for starters...
1B- Konerko
3B- Beltre

Or players who had down years and think they are still worth big bucks...

SS- Jeter

That and a nice 200K guy... batting that is, but too bad he already signed.

DH- Dunn

YIKES!

Think they may be better off with Mullet Scott at first and wait for Frank Thomas' character in Mr. Baseball to develop and take over for Tom Selleck.

*************
ESPN.com Insider----
Konerko looks like one of the bigger potential time bombs in this class as a low-defense, "old man's skills" slugger (the class of player who tends to decline earlier and often without much warning); he'll play in 2011 at age 35. And in Konerko's case, he's hitting free agency after a huge walk year that bore no resemblance to the three years that preceded it, with an on-base percentage 40 points above his high from 2007-09 and a slugging percentage 94 points higher. He's a dead-fastball hitter who is drifting into the older hitter's habit of "cheating" on fastballs, starting his bat early to catch up to the better velocity but leaving himself vulnerable to breaking stuff and changeups; if he doesn't start his bat early, he's late on the pitch. Once a solid-average defender at first, he's also seen declines in the field, losing range and agility to the point that he might be a better option for someone as a DH. Konerko has had an excellent career, especially for a player whose original organization gave him away, and he might have another strong year left in him, but I expect the market to overpay him based on his name and history rather than on the real risk that he's getting close to the cliff.

even Yikes-er!

2. Konerko (6.0 WAR)
Offense may have dropped in baseball, but nobody sent Konerko the memo. At 34, Konerko had his best major league season, hitting .312/.393/.584 and making his fourth All-Star Game.

The problem? The odds are against Konerko repeating his 2010 season. His .977 OPS followed three seasons in which is OPS was more pedestrian (.842, .783, and .841). ZiPS only gives Konerko a three percent chance of hitting as well in 2011 as he did in 2010 and while there's every reason to believe he'll still be at least a league-average 1B (ZiPS says a 52 percent chance), there's a very real risk that someone pays him for 2010 instead of 2011.

2011 Projection: .272/.351/.467, 23 HR, 78 RBI

what can MacFail do for you?

Certainly can't get an AGon...

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=5880440

Pete,

I'm just shocked, that AM is quite the GM. What can you say other than he is consistent for sure! As all the righthanded powerbat corner infielders sign, were just waiting it out so we can sign one of those washed up has beens like Lee or Berkman. Probably on the 3B front they'll let Wigginton escape only to overpay a guy like Atkins again (ie Aubry Huff) or am I the only one seeing this pattern?

No, AM is quite frankly a loser, but he's our loser! But for Gods sake, how can one man continue to do the same thing and expect different results!

I'm for an all out boycott of Camden Yards!

Get Buck the talent we need to compete in the AL East!

Overpay Konerko, he could DH his last 2 years of a long contract, just get it done!

The truth will set you free!

The most maddening thing here is that, regardless of past experience and current circumstances, Andy will not change his approach.

Free agents won't sign in Baltimore? Offer them more money than other teams!!!

Agents don't give the 0's a chance to improve their offer? Make the first offer more desirable!!!

That's what drove me nuts about the offer to V-Mart. Sure, it wasn't a lowball offer, but the 0's were bidding against two perennial contenders who were both offering catching time. The offer needed to be a "blow him out of the water to convince him to play here" offer.

That's what set me off about V-Mart. The 0's had been talking all winter about how he was their #1 target. And they clearly don't have much interest in any other free agent. Yet they offer nothing but solid market value for the guy when they KNOW they've had trouble acquiring any good free agent and they KNOW that they rarely get a chance to make a followup offer.

End rant. 72-90, here we come...

Cheer up Guys!
The winter meetings don't even start till Monday!
I would have rather had Huff back at 10 million a year than Dunn for 4 more stinkin years. Why didn't the Nationals give him that money? Because they knew he wasn't worth it. You can't just over pay on free agents and then expect us to keep all the young pitching we have in a few years. Dunn would not have put us over the top.
Chicago overpaid and will be looking to dump Dunn by the 2nd or 3rd year me thinks.
Konerko for 3 or 4 years??? Nahh, that would be ludicrous.
Hang tight. The right moves will be made.
We haven't even had the first snowfall of winter and folks are calling for a boycott?
btw Keith didn't you say you never go to games anyway?? That should make your boycott easier.
Let it play out...We will not be able to sign top free agents till we at least have a playoff run and players see we are close to being in the playoffs. The good news is this will probably be the year we do compete into September.
Dec 4th and all hope is........still alive!!!!

Kelly, Rizzo and Fuentes?

Hoyer really bent over for Theo on this deal.

Hey dumdum,

Winter meetings? Why would AM even go? If you've noticed, real GM's haven't waited for the Winter meetings.

Like AM himself, you're stuck in a time warp dumdum. The winter meetings don't mean anything anymore.....Not really since the internet was invented dumdum

CIH,

Sorry, but what you said was simply ridiculous. That said, I didn't attack you. If you want to see someone being attacked, read may of your post towards me. In the meantime, if you say something that is completely goofy, and typical of the Oriole Way, then I'll highlight such.

And by the way everyone....

YOU'RE BEING PLAYED .

Seriously, you really are. AM is doing the same thing he's done to you since he's been here....Sticking it up your _____.

He wants to be the Commish, and the LAST thing he'll do is pay what the market bears. How would that look on his resume....thus the 16m miss on Dunn.

PLAYED I SAY

wayne,

How can posing a question to start a discussion be ridiculous?

You could have simply said that you thought he was worth more because he has more presence at the plate and he changes the way pitchers pitch to those around him. But instead, you had to call me "cooky" (you meant kooky) and simpleminded as well.

How is that not attacking me?

You accused me of defending AM's actions when I stated up front, "I am in no way trying to let the front office off the hook on low-balling Adam Dunn."

You just ignore what you want and attack. Has anyone ever had a reasonable discussion with you? IT seems impossible.

And please stop with the "I'm so innocent. You attacked me..." game. We're adults here. And you're better than that... aren't you?

Folks,

Just to tie up some loose ends. Smitty is square on, it has been since 2008 when I gave up my season ticket plan. I can't see investing any more time and money into a black hole to further the financial bonaza known as the Angelos family when they won't invest in their own product. I was merely suggesting the rest of you should follow suit, because as long as 1.7 Million tickets are sold the Angelos family seems content, kinda like your rewarding the wrong behavior on their part.

As for those who say the winter meetings haven't started yet, your right, but I think the O's could save more money by not sending anyone, particularly AM. My friends, history is on AM's side, lower your expectations and the fall will not be as hard or far. Besided the good teams don't wait for the winter meetings, but I know, were waiting for the market to settle which is code for, lets see who is left in the bargain bin!

Finally, if Balmore wants to sign a FA, they will need to overpay him, but at least were in the AL where we have the DH. Dunn, Konerko and Martinez should have been the main targets, but offering less money for less years and saying your dissapointed is well just pathetic. Look at it this way, (take Millwoods $10M and Koji's $5) and pay $15M a year to the middle of the order bat! Oh but if they did that their entire salary structure would be no good for Nick and others currently under contract. The people have no imagination or a clue about the market. The market is what it is, pony up and spend some real money to get a real bat!

The truth will set you free!

Well you must admit CIH, my attacks (as you call them) are more in fun.

For example, 'cooky' is just a more fun version of 'kooky'. But I apologize!

That said, we just all need to be more truthful around here. It's time to call what we're seeing what it is..... namely 'Getting Played'.

Those who follow the O's have been led to believe that AM is an honest man. But he's not.

When he said 'buy the bats', he 100% knew what the fan base thought that he meant... that he would legitimately attempt to 'buy the bats'.

In thruth however, it was a dishonest attempt to lead the O's fan on for as long as possible. And MANY of you, including the media FELL FOR IT.

No, this isn't some kind of conspiracy were watching. Instead, it's simply a lie.

Do you think that if he really wanted VMart, he would have gotten him? Do you think that if he really wanted Dunn, he would have been closer than 16m OFF?

Instead, he keeps missing, followed by LAME columns about how FA's don't want the O's dollars.

But have you noticed how the players talked about haven't gone to the dreaded Yanks or RSox? Interesting...

When Pete gets back, he'll talk about how he's had time to reflect on the splendid AM rebuilding plan.

Just another lie.....

In this GREAT rebuilding plan, this team has.....

No on at 1B
No one at SS
No one at 3B
A player at 2B with a bad back
A player in RF who has regressed
No Closer
A Starting staff largely made up of players that were already here.
No middle of the order Power Hitter
A Manager that the GM didn't want.
NO POSITIONS PLAYERS OF NOTE IN THE MINORS. ZERO....

Rebuilding?

YOU'VE BEEN PLAYED

OVER and
OVER and
OVER and
OVER

Yo,

I'm not a GM and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but Yo, I think my approach would be simple:

1) Start by telling the agent that we are about to corner, we have a relatively young team and seeking experienced performers to provide stability and we believe we are 3-4 players away from competing

2) We are prepared to address all our shortcomings in the very near future and were very interested in your player(s)

3) What would it take, today for your guy to sign with the Orioles, right now?

Take it out of the media, the one upsmanship, just lay it out there and get it done!

I do negotiate with some of the worlds foremost negotiators in my job, this isn't all that hard. The only thing that seems hard is for the Orioles and AM to make a long term committment to excellence!

The truth will set you free!

Did you guys know the winter Meetings haven't started yet? No XXX you say! Well the Red Sox just traded 3 minor leaguers for Adrian Gonzales even without the Winter Meetings. Poor ole AM will be disapointed again, 3 minor leaguers, that's it!

The wind blew, the XXX flew and there stood McFailed again!

The truth will set you free!

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: The word here in Rome is that that AGon deal fell through because he wouldn't sign. Is that the truth??? And, Keith, watch your damned language.

But Keith,

Things can't possibly happen before the winters meetings, can they?

And besides, we can't part with our minor leaguers, 1) because we don't have any position players worth noting, and 2) the minor leagues we do have are all future hall of famers.

Plus, we never could have re-signed AG, right? He wouldn't want our money, as he'd rather play for the big bad Yanks or Sox.

It's just not fair Keith. Things aren't suppose to happen before the meetings. The Sox, Tigers, Marlins, Rockies, etc just aren't playing fair.

Darn it...

Let's see how long it takes for the Sun's crack staff to report what's going on with AG, especially since he's been someone O's fans have dreamed of acquiring for a while.

Not that AM would have ever had the guts, much less the knowhow to pull off such a deal.

Watch the local media twist this one folks... It'll be great theatre.

YOU'RE BEING PLAYED - AND THE MEDIA'S GETTING PAID

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You know, Wayne, for a guy who hates the Sun so much, you sure spend a ton of your life around here. Just thought I'd chime in from Rome and put this in a little perspective.

Believe it OR not! I would actually like to be talking about the O's contending in 2011. Talking about gee wiz prospect who may come up and play 3B with a little pop in his bat. Or about how aggressive the O's were this offseason and really trying to put a competitive team on the field for 2011. Well kiss those thoughts good-bye! We're talking about the same thing for the 3rd offseason in a row, what a pathetic job AM is doing in his waiting game as all the good players sign or get traded and we don't even sniff them. No, when your as bad as we are and AM says VMart reps never called him back, does AM's Batphone work? Couldn't we ask questions like what do we have to do?

I believe they call it paralysis by analysis or just stupidity, you pick!

Bottom line: the Red Sox get AGonz and Werth, Yankees get Crawford, Orioles get Derek Lee and lose another 5 games in the loss column.

The truth will set you free!

here's betting the SUN doesn't even mention the O's losing out on Agon. All you'll see is an AP report of the trade.

FILLERS
HAS BEENS WITH UPSIDE
FILLERS
PROSPECTS WHO AREN'T READY
EX CUBS
FILLERS

CONSISTENT LIES

WINTER MEETINGS?

YOU'VE
BEEN
PLAYED

wayne -

You can't spell Orioles without L, I, E and S.

Whata pathetic excuse for an organization...

You've got to be kidding me!

Today's Sun summerizes what we should expect by the O's at the Winter meetings. I found it interesting AM is no longer disapointed with his failures with VMart or Dunn, what changed? He should be disapointed in his effort, his offers and his sense that he has all the time in the world. Maybe had this article been written at seasons end, AM would have known that free agency started earlier this year.

The article suggests that trades may be our best approach because once again we have confederate money. I would suggest a new aggressive GM who is willing of over compensate with cash to make up for 13 years of futility and lack of committment to winning.

I live in Pennsylvania, and with this being AMs 4th winter meeting, I can tell you 3 winter meetings ago the Philadelphia Inquirer would have tarred and feathered him, but where is the Sun staff? Coddling the guy like he's the saviour after doing nothing but increase our annual loss total! Whey are you guys gonna light this guy up? Does he have pictures of the Sun Sports staff performing immoral acts?

I read that George Sherrill would like to come back, yeah so would Kevin Millwood, Terry Crowley and others, move on and build to the future.

Finally, for the love of God, stop with the Derrick Lee, they even highlighted his name! This guy is over, sure why do you think he is available and CHEAP!

To the following: PA, AM, Baltimore Sun

Just do the right thing and the Truth will set you free!

Ahhh, good point nb....

Listen all, in all seriousness....

If you wanted to be Commissioner, wouldn't you be showing how fiscally responsible you are as a current GM?

To become Commish, one needs approval from a majority of the owners. That means the KC's, the Pitts, and all the other small and medium markets get a vote. Do you think they'd vote for someone who is known for over spending? Or even someone who paid competitively, while smaller markets can't compete?

This is ALL about AM's future aspirations... period and end.

As a O's fan, he can ONLY be considered and looked at as a liar. And it's not even subtle anymore. It's blatant, in our face, dishonesty.

Why doesn't he ever get upset or disappointed when he loses out on FA's? It's simple. When he loses out on FA's, he WINS admiration from his peers.

Lose on Tex = Win
Lose on Vmart = Win
Lose on Dunn = Win
Lose on AG trade = Win

Refuse to EVER pay top dollar for legitimate, productive players = Win

The only problem for AM of course is that on the field, he's lost more games than anyone in his position since before the internet was around.

In doing so however, he has continued to gain votes from all the owners who don't want to spend competitively.

Besides the Yanks and Sox, most owners who are competitive or do overspend, don't want to. They know however, that they must to be competitive.... not just for a couple months, but for an entire season.

All accept AM of course.

You see... AM has been a loser for so long, he no longer cares. Plus, his rings from a different era, camouflage how overwhelmed and behind the times he is in the current game. In fact, those rings still fool enough fans in this town to make AM feel he has enough support to continue.

On top of everything, most of the media in this town rely on the O's to pay a substantial part of their advertising dollars. In any other business, it would be called a conflict of interest. Not in this town though.

In this town, AM and the O's will continue to get every benefit of every doubt. Pete will be his jolly AM apologist self, while Z will continue to give us FA updates as if the O's are serious players.

In EVERY other city, the Dunn bid would have been scrutinized. That the O's underbid by 16m, would have been laughed at by every city that has a team... But not Baltimore.

Instead, we get pieces from writers like Pete about how players don't want the O's money.

It's about Lies people. Lies from AM, lies from PA, and lies from the media.

And no matter how angry the fan base gets, AM will NEVER care. He's lost for so long, winning is meaningless.

He has bigger concerns than his current gig. Only problem is, he's lied to each and every one of us to get there.

I'm not angry at Macphail I've never met the man. Can't see where he's ever lied though. I am looking forward to remaining 2 months of the offseason though. I wonder why the Nats bid was about where the O's were? b
Maybe because Sox way overpaid. They'll be looking to dump that contract soon enough I think.
Go Andy Go Buck
Go O's Playoffs 2010!!!!!

My guess is a trade for a corner infielder who's not on anyones radar. Work your magic Andy and Buck. Your 3rd World Series Title will be sweeter than the first two combined.*

* Please note his first two World Series were during the Civil War Era when all the good GM's were on the battlefield and Andy got a deferment.

smitty -

"Grow the arms, buy the bats." Where the hell are the bats? According to Andy, they're all either too flawed or too expensive. And if you really think this joke of a team has a shot at Gonzalez, Pujols or Fielder this time next year, I think you need some professional help.

Sure, the Nats just signed Jayson Werth, but that doesn't mean anything for the O's. All it shows is that the Nats are willing to overpay to get top players to play for a losing team and the Orioles aren't.

Also, there's really only about a month left in the off season. The good players are always gone by Christmastime. I can't remember the last time anything really significant happened in January.

nb Yeah, I'd say the arms part is looking pretty solid. So it's time to buy some bats. Just because we missed on some free agents doesn't make that a lie. You can't just pick the guys you want and make them come here. And whoever thinks....
Jayson Werth 126 million??? 7 years???
is sound spending needs their head examined. That's one of the stupidest contracts I've ever heard of.
No, it's not my money but I'd rather be able to sign Matusz and Weiters in a few years than have any of these 38 year old free agents clogging up the roster at 15 million or more a year.
It's moves like this in Washington that are ruining baseball.
Thanks Mike Rizzo.

Folks,

I may have just become a Nationals fan! Unlike the O's the Nationals wanted to demonstrate to their fans, they are committed to put a professional baseball team on the field. They lose a no field firstbaseman who hits 40 bombs a year and they replace him with a 30+ HR guy who is an above average fielder and will probably hit for a better average.

They have demonstrated two facts: 1) if your a perennial loser you have to go out and overpay to turn the corner 2) Teams and good GMs are working long before the Winter Meetings start, they didn't wait to get called back to up their offer!

I'm sick, truly sick that the loser we have. McFail is still waiting the market out just to provide another 90 loss team to the good fans of Balmore!

Simply Pathetic!

The truth will set you free!

OMG,

The grifting apologist blogger bestowed us 5 min to slap a few of us down, but still has it in him to defend the empire! SOS!

Only problem is Sun Staff will never be free because they ignore the truth!

Make some more excuses for a pathetic bunch of losers. This isn't any longer acceptable to talk about spending smart money, it's about spending some real money!

Keith,
You do realize calling werth a "30 homer guy" is a bit exaggeration right? You really wanted to tie up 126 million on a pretty good outfielder? He hit over 30 bombs one year. he has never driven in 100 runs. he just got paid like he's one of the 10 best players in baseball. Pretty good for him, Pretty bad for baseball. Really bad for the Nats.They would have been better off overpaying for Dunn than this ridiculous contract. 7 years ???? Good luck with that one. Glad I'm not a Nats fan right now

Would love to see the list of teams wanting to give Werth 5 or 6 years. they had to be bidding against themselves on this one. Reminds me of Texas and that contract to olAlex a few years back. At least he really was one of the best players in the game though. I suppose Werth may finish this contract out with the Yankees or Red Sox cause the Nats just shot themselves in the foot in my opinion.

smitty -

I'm not talking about Werth. I'm talking about Victor Martinez.

We heard for weeks that V-Mart was the O's number one target. They know he wants to catch. They know they're bidding against Detroit, a team with a much better shot at the playoffs. They know that they rarely get the chance to make a second offer to top free agents. Yet they don't offer anything more than fair market value. If you can explain to how that makes any sense, maybe you'll start to change my mind.

I'm talking about Adam Dunn too. Maybe Chicago is overpaying, but at least they didn't make a joke offer.

And I'm talking about Adrian Beltre too. Boston isn't in on him. New York isn't in on him. What's the excuse? Contract demands? He's a Boras client. The demands will be through the roof, but he won't make what he's asking for. And speaking of Boras, his guys always go where the money is. So give it to him. There isn't as much competition for his services. He's a fantastic defender and a good hitter. He'll be worth the money for at least three years. So at least make an offer. Don't sit there like a moron and say, "no chance" before you even try.

Ok, I'm done.

Every day that goes by during the off season, one can readily see what a dishonest person AM really is.

When he said 'buy the bats', he knew O's fans felt he would be competitive, and in some cases overpay.

Instead, AM meant nothing of the kind. When he said 'buy the bats', he simply meant bats like Garrett Atkins.

That's being dishonest folks.

nb, this guy would never make a competitive bid on a player like Beltre. It's just not in his dna.

Everything he does is for his next gig as commish.

This is a bad guy

O'S FANS ARE GETTING PLAYED - YET AGAIN

Two questions to those who have supported the actions of the Orioles consistently during the Andy MacPhail era ...

(1) If overpaying for a player -- any player -- is just wrong, then are you effectively saying the Orioles should never invest in a free agent?

(Personal comment: The Nationals paid as much as they did, and a lot more than other teams would be willing to do, because Werth is worth more -- mush more -- to them than to other teams. Werth is a sign to Zimmerman and other players within the organization (a) there is hope because the front office supports winning and will make their efforts to do so, and (b) when their contract time comes up, it might be worth staying in DC. In fact, it sends the same message to those outside the organization.

(Who wants to bet the next player the Nats sign is superior to the next player the O's sign regardless of contract? A player's worth is varied by team to team based on (a) their needs, (b) the residual benefits of having that player, and (c) how much they are really trying -- not just some wishy-washy hoping -- to win. The Orioles either have no understanding of a or b, or the meter on c is very low. Or both.)

(2) What makes you think the Orioles will be able to sign Wieters or Matusz -- assuming they end up being good?

(Personal comment: The Orioles "saving money" is not the answer. They have been saving for years. The Orioles needing revenue is not the answer because MASN has been around a long time and Camden Yards is still a sweetheart of a deal all these years later.

(And before you reply with Markakis and Roberts, remember they were assured the front office really was going to its part in making this team a winner. Roberts has had little to complain about because of his fragility. Markakis had a meeting with Peter the Grate and is probably none too happy. Players are going to remember all the nothing that's been going on when promised something -- and, yes, that does constitute itself as being a lie -- and they are just as likely to be reminded by their agents the fates of Mussina, Palmeiro and others who were being squeezed for a home town discount.)

And one last bonus question to keep in mind while you try to answer the two questions without looking entirely foolish ... Do you think either Markakis or Roberts will still be Orioles when it's time to negotiate with Jones, Matusz, Wieters, or whoever else you think will become good when they are free agent eligible?

To all those penciling in Wigginton, Izturis, and other current free agents, they might not return either if given half of a look by some other team. The Orioles are currently worse on 12/6 than they were on 10/3.

Pete's reply: You know, Wayne, for a guy who hates the Sun so much, you sure spend a ton of your life around here. Just thought I'd chime in from Rome and put this in a little perspective.

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YOU'VE BEEN PLAYED - AGAIN