Really, Pete. You gotta put some kind of warning up before you post a Cucchiells pic. Some of us rely on the blog to give us something to do when the boss isn't looking, and seeing that face before I have had enough coffee is tantamount to torture. You trying to Gitmo your fan base?

HERE ARE THE 1ST-3RDs OF THE DRAFT:

Baltimore: 1st, 3rd
Boston: 1st, 1Sup, 1Sup, 2nd, 3rd
New York: 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Tampa Bay: 1st, 1st, 1Sup, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd
Toronto: 1st, 1Sup, 1Sup, 1Sup, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3Sup

WE HAVE FEWER PICKS THAN ANYBODY!!!

AImagine the damage TB will do with 6 picks and Tor with 9 picks in the 1st 3rounds!!

Yipppeee

Add that to andy's penchant for taking "signability" before talent

I think the next 3 yrs look hopeless (AM's WS almost 20 yrs nothwithstanding Smitty/Shammy)

Sorry Schmuckers

Didnt mean to distract fans from the softball game with talk of the hapless O's

The event was fun for myself and the family, and it seemed like all of the Ravens players were having a really good time together out there.

You are doing a disservice to both Flacco and Dixon, though. Both of these guys put on a great performance, and seemed to be the best on the field.

Flacco (playing third base) made a really nice barehanded pickup and throw on a swinging bunt along the foul line. He also was spraying line drives all over the field.

Oh and one more thing you forgot to mention - Never before have I seen a player NOT use his glove the entire game. The player had a glove on, and the ball found him often, but every time he tried to catch the ball bare-handed. This was true for line drives, thrown balls, grounders - you name it. Every ball I was worried would break one of his fingers.

The player was Ray Rice - and I was sure glad when it was over that he made it through with his bare hand intact.

Also, I will back you up on this - you hit maybe the farthest ball of the day, but the OF was playing deeper for you than the rest. You did your share of lollygagging to first, however ;)

My wife got some great photos, and we all had a good time. Thanks for the tip.

Yup.

There are many possible benefits to signing a "decent" free agent or trading for a "decent" established player -- even with The Plan.

You can eventually lose them, but you can get supplementary picks for them.

You can use them, and your team might actually be better (not a bad starting point towards .500 and eventually being competitive).

You can trade them. Other teams in the hunt sooner than your team employing The Plan may find their skillset perfect for pennant run.

You can resign them. The Orioles traded Tejada, then signed him back. It's not a perfect parallel but it is a blueprint.

On a team building, rebuilding, whatever -- free agents may cost more but guess what, they are worth more to your team.

Maybe one approach is to pay more per year but offer one less year. That way the Orioles won't necessarily be committed as long with a player (they could get a supplemental pick or two a year sooner if they flee at the end), and the player would enjoy the same money contractually but also be ready for his next contract with one more year left in his tank.

Andy only likes bringing back the failures of his past

See Moore, Patterson, Montanzez

as for

Young players blocked, but on the rise

or

Elite free agents entering their prime

Ummmm, not so much

Is Macfail lazy, stupid, obsolete or all of the above

Oh yeah, I forgot he likes retreads that havent put up decent numbers since the steroid era

see Lugo,julio

and atkins,garret

Pete-

It is this kind of lazy journalism that lets PA and AM off the hook. How can you talk softball in times like these? What would Woodward and Bernstein think???

You need to hold them accountable and Free the Birds!!!

hahaha!

The latest news on the draft is that the Pirates are going to take Jameson Taillon, leaving the O's with a shot at Manny Machado, assuming the Nats take Bryce Harper.

According to Zrebiec though, the O's prefer Taillon over Machado. And they took a high school shortstop high in the draft last year in Mychal Givens, so I wouldn't be surprised if Andy thinks he's already set there.

Considering all of that, don't freak out when the O's take another late first round talent with their #3 pick.

I guess it really wouldn't be that surprising though. Check out the Cubs first round picks from '94 to '06:

'94: Jayson Peterson. Pick 15. Never played in the majors.

'95: Kerry Wood. Pick 4. Injuries have plagued his entire career. Can't really blame Andy for that one.

'96: Todd Noel. Pick 17. Never played in the majors.

'97: Jon Garland. Pick 10. Decent career. None of it with the Cubs.

'98: Corey Patterson. Pick 3. Lack of plate discipline and being rushed to the majors led to a .290 (and falling) lifetime OBP.

'99: Ben Christiansen. Pick 26. Never played in the majors.

'00: Luis Montanez. Pick 3. Won a Triple Crown. In the minors.

'01: Mark Prior. Pick 2. See: Wood, Kerry. Another arm ruined by the Cubs.

'02: Bobby Brownlie. Pick 21. Never played in the majors.

*Luke Hagerty. Pick 32. Never played in the majors.

*Chadd Blasko. Pick 36. Never played in the majors.

*Matthew Clanton. Pick 38. Never played in the majors.

'03: Ryan Harvey. Pick 6. Never played in the majors.

'04: No first round picks.

'05: Mark Pawelek. Pick 20. Released by the Cubs prior to the '09 season. He's got a 12.46 ERA in 8.2 innings for the Gateway Grizzlies of the Independent Frontier League.

'06: Tyler Colvin. Pick 13. Success (at least for the moment)! Colvin's got a .294/.354/.612 line for the Cubs this year! I guess Andy figured he'd leave something in the cupboard for Jim Hendry.

Wow. That's a pathetic first round record. Especially '02. How do you get four picks in the first round (*'s were supplemental) and fail to find a major league ballplayer?

Shammy

Is there any room left on the bandwagon ?

Hope u didnt make any wagers in Vegas for the over 85 u predicted

Hell, I hope u didnt take the real line of over 72.5

U cant make this up

nb,

Ive been posting andy's results with the last 2 X he had the 3rd overall pick much to my chagrin

I'm equal opportunity.... so I'll post this here as well...

Along with the Gonzalez fiasco, dissing Huff for Atkins had me going nuts this winter. Many said he suxed last yr, well didn't Atkins do the same for the last 2 yrs at Coors? I asked about Huff here, why not him, but got little support. I also said why not some of the other proven closers instead of an injury history type like Gonzalez?
Sorry gang, but the moniker has to return.... MacFail blew both calls. That's just two of the dubious moves too. I am amazed no one is calling for his head since sooooo many wanted to dump it all in DT's lap. That is far from fair.

You guys are absolutely right. Let's run McPhail out of town only three years into his five year plan. I'm not really sure how much you guys pay attention or know baseball but it seems to me none of you seem to have even the slightest idea what the hell you're talking about. This man is highly respected and has an incredible track record. EVERY general manager makes mistakes!!! Cashman with Irabu, Kaz Ishii, Carl Pavano. Epstein with Dice K, Mike Cameron etc. We have our first legit GM since Gillick and everyone wants him run out of town. I'm not sure you guys are really fans of the O's at all. Oh, and since you want him out of town....who would like to take over??? Pathetic!!!

His 5 yr plan??? LOL. Well I think you will have to admit the team has REgressed in the first 3 years, so his "plan" better really kick in the next 2 yrs.
Ummmm MacFail has been fired from 2 teams, hasn't he? Highly overrated might be the better term.
Speaking of 5 yr plans, the Soviet Union used to tout their 5 yr plans too.... how did that work out for them?

Many are calling for McPhail's head, Brian.

Gil, wayne, jason, Keith and others have been doing so for a year or more. Several more, myself included, have come around to the idea within the last six or seven months, which is when it became clear that, aside from waiting for a bunch of prospects to click at the same time, Andy wasn't going to do a thing to improve this team.

The argument from those who support MacPhail has always been about his "history of success". But really, all he has is history. The Cubs were a miserable franchise when Andy was in charge there. He admitted that his tenure in Chicago was a failure. The two championships in Minnesota look nice and shiny, but it was a different game, economically speaking, back in 1991. And what has he done since he's been here? The one thing that everyone had to fall back on, the Bedard trade, doesn't look too good right now, so where are the positives?

It's insanely obvious that Andy needs to go and that this team needs young blood in the front office. A guy with a history of success in scouting would be great.

Walt -

Tell me all about MacPhail's "incredible track record". There's one catch though. You can't go back past 1992. I think the past 19 seasons should show enough "incredible" things that you should have to dig 20 years into the past.

So let's hear it...

That should read "shouldn't have to dig 20 years into the past".

Glad to hear it, not Brooks. I'm just used to the little cluster of nimrods in Roch's blog, sorry. They are the small minority but attack anyone not going along with their thinking there.
I'm glad someone else speaks up about the Cubbie days, now it's the O's turn. So he is basically 2 for 3 on screwing up, this is his record to be admired?

Hey BLANCIONE....the pic that Pete posted....is that Gay Craig????

I'm not mad at how this season turned out to be. I'm not even mad that I know it will take another 5 years before the O's break 500. What I am mad as hell about is how Andy MacPhail misrepresented his PLAN. I'm mad at how we were duped to believe a plan that never existed.

This year has left us with more questions than answers, but has also exposed glaring deficiencies that will make even the most loyal fans, say F-this, I'm out!

Here are the team needs/deficiencies as I see them:

1. First Baseman
2. third Baseman
3. 2 capable veteran starting pitchers
4. 4 bull-pen pitchers
5. Shortstop
6. Left fielder
7. Center fielder
8. A brand new minor league system
9. New scouting department
10. Depth at every position
11. And last but not least, a solid manager

I can't see how a team with these kind of needs can even belong in the big leagues, let alone compete anytime soon.

nb,

Your list of AM first picks is astounding. There's a reason this happens to him year in and year out.

Not only does he not have an eye for young talent, he hires people with the same mindset.

Losing doesn't happen by accident people. To experience the kind of losing AM has for the last 20 years, you have to work very hard at it.

nb, I've talked about how the game has changed since 91' but some just won't listen. I do respect AM for his rings, just like I respect others from 20, 30, 40 years go and beyond. But there comes a time when the game passes everyone by.

And it's obvious the game passed AM by a very long time ago.

Nice man? Obviously.

Good for the Orioles? More like a disaster right before eyes..

Not Brooks, Meso,

Macphail's few remaining supporters{outside of Oriole employees, paid MASN shills and his immediate family} can't articulate exactly what Andy has done to show measurable improvement in the organization. If you can't measure it or track it, any process becomes theory, not object. There are certainly measurable statistics to prove that the team and many of the prospects are actually getting worse. If we are to believe Andy is on the right track, what then are these monikers and unshakeable facts? When we ask these questions the usual reponses from the sycophamnts is that the methods employed by Andy are way over our heads and that we know nothing about baseball, business or life.

In truth, Andy's methods are so simplistic, transparent and outdated that it was easy to predict that he would fail as early as the 2008 offseason, when he showed his hand at dithering and ridiculous frugality. We are here today at this juncture because of the decisions that Andy has made, which really amount to two major trades for prospects in four seasons.

"WE HAVE FEWER PICKS THAN ANYBODY!!!

AImagine the damage TB will do with 6 picks and Tor with 9 picks in the 1st 3rounds!!"

Does it really matter? The Orioles have had a ton of picks in the last few years and so far nothing much has panned out.

Also you only get extra picks when you don't sign your previous year's selections OR when you lose a quality free agent.

"The Rays couldn't reach an agreement with their top two draft picks by Monday's midnight deadline.

They never got to the point where they exchanged monetary figures with second-round pick SS Kenny Diekroeger, who kept his long-standing commitment to Stanford. But with first-rounder OF LeVon Washington (chosen 30th overall), the gap between what the Rays were offering and what Washington wanted was too big to overcome. "

So how much whining would you be doing if the Orioles didn't sign their top selections last year?

wayne -

I just thought about the draft thing recently. We all talk about the fact that Andy took both Patterson and Montañez with the third overall pick and how he loves his Cubs retreads (Scott Moore, Felix Pie, Rich Hill), but I had never looked into all of the Cubs first round picks during his tenure in Chicago. Truly horrific, huh?

I mean, sure, there are other teams whose first round picks are equally ugly, but at least those franchises were firing terrible GM's throughout the process.

And then you've got organizations like Oakland and Colorado, who place so much emphasis on scouting and come out of the draft with loads of big league talent.

Heck, from '94 to '06, Oakland pulled Eric Chavez, Mark Mulder, Barry Zito, Jeremy Bonderman, Joe Blanton, Nick Swisher, Huston Street and Cliff Pennington out of the first round.

Colorado got Todd Helton, Jake Westbrook, Jeff Francis, Ian Stewart and Troy Tulowitzki.

Philly got JD Drew, Pat Burrell, Bretty Myers, Chase Utley, Gavin Floyd and Cole Hamels.

And therein lies the difference between organizations with a plan and GM's who put an emphasis on scouting and player development and organizations with no plan and GM's who hope beyond hope that something good will eventually fall into place.

Amazing stuff nb...

I actually thought Montenez was going to be a player. Turns out though it appears he's just another AAAA type player. Nothing against the kid.... This is just what happens in baseball, as most prospects don't even have average big league careers.

We'd be nuts, for example, to think that more than one of our young starting pitchers will end up being an average middle of the rotation guy.

Sure, you hope for better... But this is how it goes in the big leagues.

It is amazing though nb. When you combine your list with the list of FA's Andy has brought to Baltimore, one can readily see why the team is so horrid.

This isn't an accident.

There's a reason the Clippers. Lions and Orioles are the worst in their sport. It's either due to bad ownership, a poorly run front office, or both.

The Orioles just happen to fall under the 'both' category.... which is why of course, there's absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel.

rich -

If the O's had four aces all under 30, one of the best players in the game at third base, three five tool outfielders and the best record, front office and farm system in baseball, I don't think anyone would complain about failure to sign draft picks.

wayne -

There's a tunnel? I thought that was a cliff in the distance...

Ahh draft day in Birdland. Feel the excitement! LOL

I can't wait to see what rabbits Ole Joe and ANDREW pull out of their hats after last year's draft disaster.

Let's review shall we?

In the 3rd round we took a power hitting corner infielder, who proceeded to come down with the injury bug. Hmmm, not much of a future there.

In the second round we took as HS SS who held out the whole summer because ANDREW took the cheap cheap cheap stance with him, We finally signed Givens at the end, but he's still somewhere in Florida "working out."

See you in 2020 Micah. LOL

And last but certainly not least (especially at an all you can eat buffet!)

Mr Signability! Instead of taking MLB ready talent like Storren or Leake, Ole Joe went the c-mart route and took an overweight kid projected to go in the second round. Hobgood has been getting lit up in the minors while Leake is dominating for the Reds.

Can't wait for tonight.

Whoever we draft, I;m sure Roch and Steve will come out praising the pick and defending it against any criticism.

Cheap cheap cheap is what the Oriole Bird says.

Brummie_Oriole,

That's right, Leake! That's the dude I was talking about on the other thread. If I'm not mistaken, Leake didn't play a single game in the minors. From college straight to the majors and is doing pretty damn good.

How could they miss on that kind of talent? It is no surprise that bad teams don't even know how to draft.

Brummie -

It's a bit unfair to label Tyler Townsend a bust after a year in the organization. Sure, he's hurt, but come on man. It's not like he's a pitcher who's had shoulder and elbow surgeries.

And Mychal Givens isn't "somewhere in Florida 'working out'". He was in extended ST until May 25th, when he was added to Delmarva's roster. Of course, he only played seven games and now he's out 4-6 weeks with a sprained thumb.

I'm not sure what the argument is about Givens' signing. Some high school guys sign, some don't. Most hold out as long as possible so they can get as much money as possible. You are aware that it's the agent's job to get the most money for the player, right?

You're spot on regarding Hobgood though. Who knows what will happen with the kid, but you don't take a project with the 5th overall pick. Especially with so many college pitchers still on the board.

nb
I love it how you guys dismiss his 2 World series with "different game blah blah blah"
That's just pathetic really.
Did he or did he not operate under the same financial rules and so forth as all the other major league teams? The same right?
Give me a break. The guy also was the reason that the Cubs went as close to the World Series as they've been in 100 years or so.
You know too much about baseball to post only his 1st round picks from those years? What about the MN years?
How do these first rounders compare with Billy Beane's or someone like that?
Keep trying to discredit those rings though....It seems to work for you guys...But when he gets his 3rd one here, will you promise to acknowledge he's a professional good GM who knows what he is doing...Always easy to criticize a rebuild when it's in the middle of it..Patience will show the truth of all this.

smitty,

nb can speak for himself.....

I however, PROMISE to acknowledge you as the baseball guru of all time if the O's win a world series under AM

No, make that win a post season series under AM

No, make that make the post season under AM

No, make that compete for a divisional title under AM

No, make that compete for a wild card under AM

No make that.......

Anyway, I will GIVE you my world series tickets for ANY game you desire if they even make the WS smitty.

You can bring ken with you and laugh your azzes off that I'm such a tool.

SERIOUSLY smitty,

I would LOVE to LOSE this bet.

Good Luck!

smitty -

You're kidding, right?

Obviously the "financial rules" were the same, but are you seriously unaware of how much the financial landscape of this game has changed since 1991?

I've had a hard time finding team payrolls from that era, but check out this link for individual player salaries: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/salaries/1991.shtml

In '91, Darryl Strawberry was the highest paid player in the game, at $3.8M. The league minimum was $100K. That's a difference of $3.7M. Now, A-Rod makes, what, $30M? And the league minimum is $450K? That's an 800% increase on the highest salary and only a 450% increase on the league minimum.

And back in '91, the Oakland A's had three guys in the top 30 in salary. How many A's are in the top 20 today? Other teams with players in the top 20 in '91? Kansas City - 2; Pittsburgh - 1; and perhaps most shocking of all: the Yankees - 1. When was the last time the Yankees had only one player in the top 20 salaries?

Seriously, smitty. I'm pathetic? Give me a break. Other than "they had the same financial rules" where's your proof that today's game isn't drastically different financially?

Moving on...

You're right that Andy got the Cubs as close to the World Series as they've been since 1945, but does that really excuse eight losing seasons out of 13 and only two playoff appearances for a team with a payroll north of $100M? And, regardless, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

The fact of the matter is that Andy didn't get it done in Chicago.

Next...

Andy's Minnesota first round picks? Here you go...

'85: Jeff Bumgarner. Pick 13. Never played in the majors.

'86: Derek Parks. Pick 10. .200/.258/.278 line in 45 games over three seasons.

'87: Willie Banks. Pick 3. Flamed out as a starter by '95. 33 wins, 4.75 career ERA.

'88: Johnny Ard. Pick 20. Never played in the majors.

'89: Chuck Knoblauch. Pick 25. Very good hitter and defender until he forgot how to throw.

'90: Todd Ritchie. Pick 12. 43 wins, 4.71 career ERA. Never started a game for the Twins. Released after posting a 5.63 ERA in '98.

*Midre Cummings. Pick 29. Traded to Pittsburgh in the John Smiley deal. Played an 11 year career as a solid utility guy.

'91: Dave McCarty. Pick 3. Hung around for 11 seasons, despite being a terrible player. .242/.305/.371 career line.

*Scott Stahoviak. Pick 27. Put up a good year in '96, but flamed out shortly after. Granted free agency from Minnesota... and Andy signed him to play for the Cubbies in '99!

'92: Dan Serafini. Pick 26. 6.04 career ERA.

'93: Torii Hunter. Pick 20. Win!

*Jason Varitek. Pick 21. This would have been a win for Andy, but Tek didn't sign. Oh well, at least he got two more picks in that first round...

*Marc Barcelo. Pick 33. Never played in the majors.

*Kelcey Mucker. Pick 38. Never played in the majors.

Oh... Nevermind...

'94: Todd Walker. Pick 8. A few solid years with the Twins before bouncing around and putting up solid numbers everywhere else he played. Hey! Andy got him back in Chicago in '04!

*Travis Miller. Pick 34. 5.05 career ERA.

So there you have it. 16 first round picks and Hunter and Knoblauch are the only two that could be considered successes. I guess you could toss Cummings in there, since he helped bring Smiley to the Twins...

Anyways... I already compared Andy's draft record to Billy Beane's. You must have missed it since it doesn't paint Andy in a good light.

Come on, smitty. If you really want to be taken seriously, you've got to come up with actual arguments for what you believe in. You can't just say nonsensical things and hope people agree with you.

nb
Just so you can present a more accurate picture when looking at drafts, iwill share the following.
Just take the year 1997 for instance.
Did you know that only 31 of 53 first round picks ever played in the majors?
Did you know of those 31 who did make it only 13 ever played more than 100 games?
Trying to look at the draft as if it's football or something is just cooky.
BTW It looks like AM did a better job than most GM's with that Garland pick that year!
I know you guys have alot of ammunition to fire at Macphail but your post is a misuse of statistical data just to try to prove a point.

Please nb try comparing apples with apples. show how inferior AM's picks are to other organixzations in the first round. And then show how his palyers picked through all the rounds fare against others. That's really the only way. Wasn't Alex Rodriques picked in like the 5th round or something? Just to throw all those busts out there when every GM has about the same amount of "busts" in the first round may look good for the outhousers point of view but doesn't really prove anything other than the baseball draft is not like other sports.

smitty,

After what nb just posted, I'll raise the bet and give you half of my season tickets for the following year if AM takes this team to the WS within the next 5 seasons.

Or is 8 or 9 years enough time for the Plan?

By the way, what do I get when he gets fired or resigns as a failure again?

Hey nb
It looks like 12 out of 16 first round picks Andy had with the Twins actually MADE it to the bigs which is way above average.

By the way, what do I get when he gets fired or resigns as a failure again?

Posted by: wayne | June 7, 2010 6:46 PM

An even emptier existence, since your sole purpose in life is bashing AM.

Drummie says
"Whoever we draft, I;m sure Roch and Steve will come out praising the pick and defending it against any criticism."
Or......
it could be said
"Whoever we draft, I'm sure Brummie and Wayne and Gil and Keith Rowe will come out bashing the pick opposing it against all praise."

Alex Rodriguez was a #1 pick, smitty.

And who cares how many players made it to the bigs? It looks like 13 out of 16 of Andy's first round Twins picks were TERRIBLE PLAYERS.

And I already did your "apples to apples" comparison. Refer to my 2:19pm post.

I actually love the Machado pick. He's been compared to Alex Rodriguez and a few scouts have said that he's the most talented player in the draft.

And I'd much rather see a high school bat drafted than a high school arm.

Here's hoping Andy doesn't balk at whatever Machado's asking price is.

Thanks for the note Ferg/Sham....

If hoping that AM is replaced is my sole purpose, it's good to know that at least 90% or O's nation is right there with me.....

Enjoy your island......

Albert Pujols
13th round

Just shows how unpredictable the draft is and how your stats are pretty much meaningless. You still don't get it.

The exception isn't the rule, smitty.

13 of 16 Twins first round draftees were miserable players.

12 of 16 Cubs first round draftees were miserable players. Two were so overused that their arms nearly fell off.

You still don't get it.

Not brooks said
"And therein lies the difference between organizations with a plan and GM's who put an emphasis on scouting and player development" ...

That is what AM is doing..He's doing his 3rd draft for one of the worst organizations you could have come in to. Peter Gammons just quoted Bobby Cox as saying it takes 7 years to draft and develop a good team. And you all want to throw the guy out before his first draft (in 08) even comes close to playing out...just plain silly and does not make good baseball sense on any level.

and just repeating earlier posts about number one draft picks over 12 years doesn't prove your point. The 1st round is not as big a deal in baseball...you get that right? They pick about 1,500 players compared to footballs 250 or so.
The later rounds many times tell the success or failure of a particular draft year/ The O's stink it up for 10 or more years before AM got here and now you want to blame him because we weren't ready for this rash of injuries this year?
just ridiculous

nb,

The dude that has been wrong since he started on the blog just said 'you still don't get it'.

Begs the question.....

Is it possible to be worse than 'always wrong'?

I just wish there was evidence (ever) that anything he says could ever come true. Something... Anything...

Instead, it just gets worse and worse for him.

Which begs another question.....

If he's been proven wrong at every, yet he's calling you out for not getting it, then.....

where do you go with that?

What do you think Ferg, or sham, or anony.... or

ole smitty mcgee?

I like the Machado signing, despite him being a high school player. I don't like to get hyped up on the comparisons to all-time greats, but he's widely reported to be a great player and the best one available at #3. SS & 3B are organizational needs.

Despite the criticism (some of it well-deserved), I think MacPhail has a good baseball mind, but the draft doesn't seem to be one of his strengths. There hasn't been a lot to be hopeful about recently, so I'm hoping Machado is a stud.

Oops. Meant to say "Machado pick" instead of signing. Signing, of course, is another matter entirely!

Like I am trying to pint out unless you also compare the 2nd through 15th round also it's not really that meaningful

I GOT IT.....

It's a 7 year Plan.

We get 4 more years of this then....

It's all about 2015

It's about time we knew how long it would take.

Relax everyone.....

Goodnight Alice

Machado address the obvious weakness of the O's. It'll be a while till he's up, i guess, but isn't that a good pick? I mean, Andy didn't just botch that right.

Honestly smitty, a part of me really admires you. I was right there with you all the way up until the 2-16 start. I thought wayne and nb were just frustrated over the past and couldn't see the future.
I was so hopeful when AM first took over in Baltimore that it carried me through repeated diminishing records.
First and foremost, he has failed to do the one thing that was most necessary for this team and get that impact bat.
I'd like to see how this team would look with Pie, Roberts, and Johnson at full strength. There are definitely some complaints that shouldn't be on Andy's head, and our team definitely has a lot of young talent and potential, but after making 2 big trades right off the bat and locking up Markakis and Roberts long term, Andy has failed to get the impact bat(s) or the bullpen help to help bring out the talent that is in our team. He has also kept on DT and the Crow long past what he should have. DT has wore out arms in the bullpens and has hurt our young pitcher's development and Crowley's piss poor job as a hitting coach has our All star swinging at anything low and outside and has hindered our "franchise savior's" development.
A part of me says that AM gets until the trade deadline to make a deal for an impact bat (one on the rise, not one on the third year of a pitiful decline) another part of me says dump him right after the draft so Cal can come in and get his first test right out the gate.

wayne,

No time-line was ever certain/established for the "plan" to work, so the "omg" comments that it's not presently paying returns as expected are a little perplexing.

But as to begging the question...

I take it you'd fire Andy, and keep turning GM's over until One of the guys gets the O's into the play-offs in less than 3 years? How many GM's you think that'd be. Hey, maybe you know the GM that can produce such results....you'd be a multi-millionaire and then you could be right.

I get the frustration...but I'm not seeing how "failure" of the season, and failure of the "plan" are mutually exclusive.

Great pick! Best player available. Thats the way to do it plain and simple.

Chris Leake is a product of the national league by the way. Do you really think he wouldn't get lit up in the AL East? If the O's or any other AL East team picked him it be at AA max.

Ok, the important things now are to get the kid signed, and make sure you pay way over slot so they'll stop calling you cheap, at least for a few hours. Next, get the kid into A ball next year, and then everyone on the blog just beat the crap out of him for not hitting 27 HRs and driving in 95 runs, and being the first half MVP, then not being promoted to Bowie and playing the second half of the year at SS/DH/RP, all before his 18th birthday. Remember, sometimes the minor leagues are for developing players, and sometimes not-it all depends on who needs to get slammed on any given day. Ok, everybody line up the 'Machado is a bust' insults. 3,2,1...Tell me I'm not close.

Smitty - Thanks for hanging in there. I like your thinking, but you’re never going to convince the know-it-alls. They all know more than Andy. Just look at Andy's drafting "mistakes" over the years. They wouldn't have made them. They would have even avoided Kerry Wood and Mark Prior, 'cause they were going to have arm problems. They can predict the future. They would have been perfect, as can be seen by their criticism of the picks that didn't work out. They know the plan isn't working, is doomed to failure, and they have a better plan. They know who we should draft, who should replace Andy, and can predict who P.A. will work with. The only thing that bothers me now is why they aren't calling for the scalps of Joe Jordan and the scouts. Oh that’s right, it’s all Andy's fault. Funny thing, in March of this year Anonymous posted a comparison of the Red Sox scouting department to the O's, which showed the Red Sox with about twice the number of personnel as the O's, and Wayne really liked that post. Remember that one Wayne? You liked it so much you wanted Anonymous to reveal his/her real name. Let's see, didn't the plan begin with a big effort to improve the O’s scouting, including the development of an academy in the Dominican Republic, and the scouting of Japan and Korea. Oops, Koji didn’t work out. The plan is a failure. Dump the Sarasota experiment and go back to being the Ft. Lauderdale nomads. Fire the entire scouting department. Abandon all hope, ye who dare look at anything other than wins and losses, ‘cause Andy said it’s all about W’s this year. Oops, if Andy said it, maybe we shouldn’t listen to it.

I'm not going to fall into the trap of discussing the merits of a high school shortstop who, if he ever makes it to the major leagues is 4 years away. We are talking 2015 with this kid so it is a moot point. Macphail has wasted 4 years already and should have been working on the shortstop solution back in 2007. The bottom line is that four years into the Macphail disaster the Orioles have no promotable postion players acquired by Andy. That is why he deserves to be fired. The Orioles have serious holes at first, third, shortstop, and the bullpen right now. They were there 4 years ago and are still there. FA signings and trades involving our "top" prospects should have filled them by now . How about it Andy? Another season is a terrible thing to waste and this one was over before it started because of your typical dithering this past offseason, and the one before, and the one before. You were given no measureable goals when you were hired and you have achieved them all.

Call the Orioles and demand change at the GM position now.

Oregon -

No one is saying the Cubs shouldn't have drafted Wood and Prior. I, for one, think they were fantastic picks, and that both of them were destroyed by Dusty Baker.

Second, the reason everyone is calling for Andy's head is because Andy is in charge. Joe Jordan seems to be a solid head of scouting, but the poor guy has no staff to work with. That comes from the GM, who is in charge of the workings of the organization.

Finally, the "big effort" to improve the international presence was the Koji signing. Aside from that, nothing has been done on the international front. That's not 20/20 hindsight. That's what's happening (or should I say, not happening) right now.

paulie -

smitty's seven year time line is ridiculous. The Rays and Tigers turned their organizations around in three or four years. Seven years is unacceptable.

And I know you didn't ask me, but I would fire Andy. He has no recent history of success and he seems to be stuck in the era in which he did experience success. Bring in a young guy with a good eye for scouting and this team turns around and starts winning in two or three years.

Gil says
"They were there 4 years ago and are still there".

That would be June of 2006 and yes we should blame that year on Macphail also even though he wouldn't arrive on the scene till June of 07.

Anyone notice how the bashers have to ad another year because they are som impatient and just want to blame someone for the last 13 years.

psst ...hey Gil if you are married and getting ready for your 19th wedding anniversary, you may want get the year correct as women tend to know how many it's been....So saying "Hey honey Happy 25 anniversary may not go over quite well.

yes Macphail is getting ready to celebrate his 3rd year anniversary here in a couple weeks...
but you can keep saying it's been 4 if it makes you feel better. I notice the 4 years repeatedly in your posts as it seems you are obsessed with saying "4 years". What, if you say "3" which is accurate you'd think someone will say give AM more time?

28 in dog years. I'd still go with that

"28 years and look at this mess Macphail has gotten us in"

btw,

with Manny being a Boras client,
and the O's with so few top picks,
how much is Scott Boras rolling on the floor thinking of how "by the balls" he must think he's in with AM and PA.

Manny is going to be paid as hell. How close to Bryce Harper money???

which leads me to think....

if he's not signed, what's the compensation (picks wise) for the O's next year...like 3 top 20 picks??

smitty and Oregon and paulie,

I'm happy for all of you. I really am.

16-41 doesn't matter to you.

Even though this year is worse than last, and last year was worse than the year before.

Even though AM has admitted the Plan has taking a giant step backward.

Even though even the apologist local media says this has been a Lost year.

Even though there's not one positional player worth bringing up to the big club.

Even though people keep talking about the great pitching, yet the BAA is the worst in the league.

Even though a huge majority of the national media (who you relied on) has bailed on the the O's.

Even though AM's horrid track record with FA's is legendary in ChiTown and now Baltimore.

Even though AM admitted his time in Chicago was a 'Failure'.

Even though everything Gil, nb, Keith, Meso and others have said has either come true or is worse than even we predicted.

Even though all that international scouting you talk about has been a joke, and is still FAR less than medium and large market clubs (see national media from Friday).

Even though, Even though, Even though, Even though.....

You're still faithful to the Plan.

Don't tell me..... you ALL must work for the government. Only people who are used to being unproductive year in and year out could be so positive.

Losing NEVER matters. You're so use to excuses and failure, you're more than content with less than 3 wins out of 10.

That actually works, as patience is completely open ended for you.

I can see your post in 2013 now. After winning 76 games, you'll all be preaching how the club has improved with the Plan on track.

Being wrong never matters to you now. Why should it then?

nb
If you read carefully, I didn't say 7 years. I was quoting Bobby Cox.
The Rays took 3 years huh?
Sure seemed like about 20 to me?

Still waiting for your comparisons of the 2nd through 15th rounds of all of Andy's drafts? You did see the stats regarding the 1st round picks around the league and AM's are not nearly as bad as you portrayed them in comparison?
Any retraction or updated info. would be helpful

Wayne -

What is your plan to get to 90 wins in 2013?

Just askinn..

smitty,

why do you post as anonymous at times? It's just strange.

do you just forget which names you go under sometimes?

and that 28 year thing. Dude, it's just not funny. Never was.

DO you get what Gil is saying at all? IS this really that hard for you.

Root for the O's - that's cool. But come on smitty mcgee. Be smart or at least be funny... Or better yet.... make a correct prediction once..... just once.

Smitty,

Please quit embarrassing yourself with your negligible baseball accumen. If you aren't on the Warehouse payroll, I would recommend some help, maybe Uncle Andy who you so passionately defend without substantive facts or figures can take you with him after he gets fired.

Wayne, NB, Gil and myself are diehard Orioles fans, were realists and just wanted to see a professional baseball organization run like one. Saying its raining when it's raining is being negative, just like saying they are gonna suck in Dec and they suck isn't negative.

I'll apologize for our little group that we rained on your precious naive parade, but it is what it is!

We told you so!

The truth will set you free!

And oh, by the way, Macphail will continue to trade for veterens for prospects until the cows come home. That's all he knows how to do. And with his track record the Orioles will continue to lose under Andy until the cows come home. The MASN shills and Oriole employees who post on this blog are trying to to take the focus off of Macphail's miserable performance and happy talk about the distant future as if Andy just got here and is getting his bearings. There is no future under Andy Macphail, only more of the same ..losing, losing, losing.

I sometimes post as anonymous because I forget to put my name in the little box. Call me Andy if it makes you feel better.
I guess it's like taking a small step backwards

nb,

I'll just reiterate what I mentioned before...

If you "know" who that guy is, you're a Millionaire for "knowing" it.

...if you're wrong, you'd move through GM after GM to find that 3-4 year plan.

additionally, both instances (Tigers and Rays) are rather different circumstances, so there is no clear correlation between those "plans". (maybe brilliant Managers...i dunno).

however, I do agree about AM's "international" presence. I thought, and continue to believe, that Chapman was a major "miss". I'm happy to be wrong, but, 100MPH Lefty which can be obtained outside the draft for just $$$...what's the hold up? NAIL that guy down!!!!

sigh.

Wayne,

You can lay off the Government workers!
:)

I told you so,

The truth will set you free!

Gil -

What's the solution then? Fire Andy end of the year, start over again?

and now you're PeteyPablo?

Good grief!

My plan?

Fire AM - Spend like a medium market franchise - Surround young players with multiple proven, in their prime, productive pro's - dump players like atkins and lugo now - beat teams like the A's instead of always whining about the AL East.....

In other words PP, the OPPOSITE of everything they're doing now.

No Wayne I don't "get" what Gil is saying because what he is saying is simply not true. It's not been 4 years. it's just 1st grade math man...you know a little math right... so if AM arrived on the scene in June of 07 how many years has he been here?
It's not a trick question.

I suppose the reason Gil says 4 is because by being truthful people might say why not let AM at least have 3 drafts maybe 4 full seasons and 4 off seasons before we run him out of town and blame him for the previous 10 before he got here.
Have you come up with the answer yet?
It's a number between 2 and 4.

Sorry Keith!

Hey Wayne...Looks like you found your government worker with ol Keith there...
I actually have run my own business for 18 years and have taken some "huge steps backwards" myself over the years, which is maybe why I know what AM is talking about and won't call for his head for it.

Hey nb,

there's a few articles about mark prior and his mechanics on line. The articles predicted this kids failure based on a major league flaw in his delivery long before Dusty Baker got a hold of him.
He had a pretty windup, but he was doomed.And believe me, I'm no Dusty Baker fan.

http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/04/04/pitching-mechanics-mark-prior/

http://www.bareknucks.com/why-stephen-strasburg-is-destined-to-be-the-next-mark-prior

I didn't post this stuff to beat on anyone. I just think baseball can be an interesting sport, and there's more than one way of looking at things. And more than bitching about the local team. I think.

Somehow, I can see Smitty taking steps backwards, kinda like Uncle Andy and Nephew Smitty! They say an apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

I told you so!

The truth will set you free!

wayne,

"_______ doesn't matter to ________!!!"

what are you, like a Palm Reader? A psychic?

Cause you have about the same accuracy rates.

I bet I can have a better accuracy rate...

Accuracy doesn't matter to wayne!!!

What I say/write/think doesn't matter to wayne!!!

(that's at least .500! arguably 1.000, but I be very moved if it was 0.000)

"Surround young players with multiple proven, in their prime, productive pro's"

But Wayne, you've said that th eyoung players we have are overrated. And the O's are spending like a medium market franchise (17th 2010).

So instead of constantly complaining and grandstanding for an audience, have some substance to the argument. In other words, the opposite of what you normally do.

And no, I'm not anyone else. Just the guy a while ago who likened you to the old Muppet characters in the balcony...always complaining, yet always coming back for more..

I guess I finally need to clear this up for the Oriole shills and employees who post under many names to try to make it appear that ther are more than one or two of them. And since Pete has confirmed that I post only under my real name and he knows who I am, I think I am in a position to make this observation, unlike the few pitiful sissies who posts under 10 screen names.

2007 was a lost season, Macphail was here for most of it.
2008 was a lost season Macphail was here for all of it.
2009 was a lost season Macphail was here for all of it.
2010 is a lost season, 20 games out by Memorial Day. Macphail is here at the present time. That is four seasons. I don't count his time in fiscal years. Baseball is measured in seasons. This is Andy Macphail's fourth failed season and it is enough. He has no clue, no plan, no style, no strategy to put this team in a position to compete for many years. I predict he will be fired before his fourth and worst season is complete. That's not dog years unless you count the dog who is presently the GM.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Thought I did confirm you identity Gil, I don't agree that you can count the first half-season as a full season, since there's very little that can be done in-season to alter a team other than dump veterans for medium prospects. The Plan essentially started with the Bedard and Tejada deals. I think it's fair to call it three years, but when you're out to get the guy, you might as well call it six.

.

jim66,

I've read those before, but good point/reference.

...the point though, might also be "exactly"...

probably should have known better than to pick him...maybe...

but yeah, as to Dusty...maybe that one wasn't on him...

smitty- Undertand this, Devil Rays lost 96 games 2007. But they got a new owner in 2005 and turned a losing franchise around. He hired GOOD people to do it.

Under Sternberg's direction, the Rays put in place a business plan that turned the organization around in three years. On the field, the team significantly increased its Major League payroll and focused on expanding and solidifying its player development operations. By reworking its roster and building training facilities in Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela and Brazil (the first Major League team to do so).

from a MLB article, "An important moment for the team's growth took place just before the 2007 Trade Deadline, when the Rays sent infielder Ty Wigginton to the Astros for relief specialist Dan Wheeler."

hey paulie... You're an oldie but goodie name... I like it....

I just go to the games, wear my old Oriole cap, hang with friends, and hoe the other team has players that are a joy to watch.

I don't expect the O's to ever win... and mostly, they don't. Anyone know what their record is since the All Star break last year?

As for me being accurate?

Ok paulie... I've had it all wrong all along. The O's are right on track.

You win SHAM

Peter- I know you are a USC guy, but no comments on passing of John Wooden?

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You know, I was knee-deep in the managerial thing when John Wooden passed away, I wish I had done some kind of eulogy, but now it seems like it might be too late. I grew up watching him and UCLA crush everybody, especially USC, but he was a classy guy and some of his axioms will live forever.

How much would it cost to obtain 4-5 proven, productive, players in their prime? Obviously, if they're proven and prodcutive, and in their prime, I'm guessing $8 mil a year per player, so we'd add about another $25M to payroll and now be spending in the top 5, not medium-market. And you're saying that will get us 85 or so wins in what, 2 years? Is that what you're suggesting? That seems a bit, unrealistic....

smitty -

You obviously quoted Bobby Cox to prove a point. Why in the world would you quote Cox if you don't agree with him?

And with the Rays, I wasn't talking about inception to success. I was talking GM change to success. Andrew Friedman was hired in 2004. The Rays were in the World Series in 2008. So you're right. It didn't take three years. It took four. My bad.

paulie -

I'm with you 100%. There are just too many negatives about MacPhail to keep him around. He said he would "grow the arms and buy the bats" and he hasn't bought a bat. He's had two offseasons to make an impact move, and he's barely even tried. The aforementioned international presence is still abysmal. The list goes on and on.

And here's your 2nd to 15th, just because dinner is cooking and I like looking up these sorts of things...

Major Leaguers from drafts '95-'06

'95: Wood, Brian McNichol, Adam Everett, Ismael Villegas, Chris Booker

'96: Chris Gissel, Chad Myers, Phil Norton, Courtney Duncan, Jason Smith, Kyle Loshe

'97: Garland, Scott Downs, Nate Tuet, Michael Wuertz, Randy Williams, Chris Piersoll, Jeff Duncan

'98: Patterson, David Kelton, Will Ohman, Eric Hinske

'99: Steve Smyth, John Webb, Peter Zoccolillo, Ray Sadler

'00: Montanez, Bobby Hill, Todd Wellemeyer, Ryan Jorgensen, Dontrelle Willis, Jon Leicester, Jason Dubois, Buck Coats, Carmen Pignatiello, Jason Szuminski

'01: Prior, Andy Sisco, Ryan Theriot, Ricky Nolasco, Brendan Harris, Sergio Mitre, Geovany Soto, Khalil Greene

'02: Billy Petrick, Rich Hill, Adam Greenberg, Micah Hoffpauir, Rocky Cherry, Randy Wells

'03: Jake Fox, Sean Marshall, Casey McGehee

'04: Mitch Atkins, Eric Patterson (yup, he had the balls to draft Corey's brother), Sam Fuld, Sean Gallagher, Jerry Blevins, Micah Owings

'05: Donnie Veal

'06: Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija

That's Rounds 1 through 50. And how many impact players are you counting? I've got four: Wood, Prior, Nolasco and Soto. And how many guys would you consider good? That might add Theriot, Hinske and Garland to the list. After that, you've got a bunch of middle relievers and cup of coffee scrubs. So that's seven solid ballplayers in 13 years. That's terrible.

And look at how pathetic '96, '99 and '00 were. And '02. And '04. Just plain ugly.

So, what have you got now?

Petey,

To answer your question, firing Macphail doesn't mean starting over. It means hiring a GM who can multi task and is in touch with the various methods necessary to put together a competitive major league franchise. Trading veterens for prosepects is one of many tools availbale to a GM. It is the only one Andy knows how to use and emprical evidence abounds that is all he has done since he has been here. Andy is about "Getting ready to get ready". The Orioles need a GM who is ready.

I don't know what's more pathetic... the O's win-loss record, or the negative circle jerk that goes on on this blog every day.

It's the same tired crap over and over. Andy did this... Andy didn't do that... but there's never any solutions offered up (other than from nb from time to time... or the regular chants to fire MacPhail), so what's the point?

If all you have as a solution is "Fire MacPhail" then say it once, move on and forget about it because it's not happening. His contract runs through next season. You think Angelos is gonna eat his contract and pay someone else? C'mon, you should know better.

And it's pointless arguing for Andy at this point as well. Everyone here knows what everyone else thinks is important and what is irrelevant (usually the same coin just turned around) and nothing new comes up for either side. We are where we are. Arguing back and forth about Andy's merits from ten or twenty years ago is pointless.

Look, by all accounts, your baseball team made the right pick today. They made the pick that just about anyone in baseball in their shoes would have made. Try to take some pleasure in that.

And let's all hope they're not only still willing to spend over slot in later rounds like last year, but are willing to throw some international money towards Latin America come July 2nd.

Ok, I said that and now I'm going back to the beach for another few weeks or so. Enjoy yourselves.

It's Sham and wayne on here, according to wayne.

I know you're an idiot, but I'll try to explain this to you simply.

Not everyone agrees with you.
Some people have hope, even if it's blind hope in your opinion.
If someone doesn't agree with your views, and has hope, it doesn't make it the same person.

I know it's pointless to try and explain this to you.
You show everyone what an idiot you are with 'accept' instead of 'except', even after the links to the definitions were posted for you, 10' instead of '10, pro's instead of pros, the random capitalization...the list goes on.

I don't expect you to understand that there's more than one person who posts here that doesn't agree with you. Idiots have a low cognitive ability.

wayne,

if you have a hard time believing that there is more than one person who believes/posts on this blog who shares a different view than yourself....

...seek help.

I'm not anyone but me. never have been.

maybe it's the "to the man with a hammer, everything is a nail" problem.

btw, your rebuilding plan....could you be more ambiguous and "spin-filled"....

Rich

I would be ECSTATIC if we didnt sign that turd Hobgood

He wasnt the 5th best player last yr, yet the os took him at 5 because he was CHEAP

Id rather have the extra selection and hope the best player was taken, but knowing that dopey mac cheap is running the show, im not optimistic

paulie,
i wonder sometimes how much the science weighs on some of these picks.
Like a Prior. Even if the scouts knew, and the guys doing the drafting knew, they'd have to believe that the mechanics knew what they were talking about, and more than they do, and trust that the science really mattered, and mattered in the long run. Every scout is looking for his next big player, so who knows.
Anyway, I read a book a long time ago, Prophet of the Sandlots. Always think of that book at MLB draft time. Good read.

Sorry to get off topic. Continue the same season-long argument and slamming each other.

Chris -

My posting has swirled down the toilet of pessimism due to the abysmal product on the field.

I apologize to everyone for not offering a legitimate solution over the past couple of weeks. I'll work on that.

PS - Chris, I'm sure you just made everyone jealous with your "I'm going back to the beach" comment. I know I am. Check back with us in 2014, when Machado's playing short and hitting cleanup for the AL East leading O's, under manager Buck Showalter and GM David Forst.

PSS - Why is it that everyone eventually falls back on attacking wayne for his grammatical errors?

jim66,

nice recommend on the book.

chris,

not cool, man. i hope you get sand in the moon. j/k.

nb,

...yeah, the posts have been a bit outta "sync"....figured it was a result of a play...

and too true about easy grammer adn spellling. what format is this on here....

Gil -

AM has traded veterans for prospects, and given up draft picks for veterans, and hired more scouts, and revamped training facilities..... he's used more than just one tool. Now, that said, I agree, I don't think AM is the right GM. Problem is, there are so many deep flaws, that getting rid of AM will require starting over.

See,that's what I don't get. If AM is the problem, then the foundation needs to be rebuilt. If the prospects are overrated as others have said, then it's another rebuild. I don't see how you can say if AM is that bad, that there's enough of a foundation that things can turn around so fast. Does that mean the foundation was in place prior to AM - Flanny and Beattie?

If AM goes, I don't see how in the world this isn't a complete rebuild..

yes you do have to much time on
.your hands.
You want me to analize that? no thanks, the only way to do it properly woulld be to analize all others and look at injuries and on and on.
The main problem with you fellas is you want it to be a zero sum game and it's not. I quoted Cox because no organization is in the same state when someone new takes over. When the GM for Tampa took over and won the World series 3 years later, how does that compare with what Macphail had when he took over. i'm willing to bet that he had alot more to start with than AM. You are good with that stuff. why not compare that.
It
s not a zero sum game and the Os were pathetic from top to bottom 3 years ago and they are in much better shape now.
goodnight

Why did we take the High School SS instead of the college SS ?

Anyone ?

Tom -

Because he was better. (a LOT better..)

Wayne - I've owned my own business since 1992. But I had a good laugh when I read the follow ups from you and Smitty.

Like you, Gil, Meso, Keith, and nb, I'm hate the losing. I hate the feeling that this team will find a way to lose every night. I hate being afraid to turn on the computer - cause 3000 miles away all I have is MLB.com - when the game is in progress and predicting how many runs we're behind. I hate it when the games put me in a bad mood and my wife says "Whats' wrong with you - they lost again, didn't they? I hated it when I flew home and got to OPACY to see 2 losses to the A's the last week in May, and saw a lifeless, sad bunch on the field.

BUT, I have not abandoned hope, and I will not. Tell me what should be changed about the plan? Or better yet, tell me what the plan should be, after 10 years of no plans other than what you saw before Andy came in. Should the work to improve the scouting department not be made stronger. Is Andy wrong to move on the international front? Because it hasn't produced more results in 3 years should it be abandoned now? Should we not place our primary emphasis on pitching and defense? I agree, we haven't purchased many good bats (I actually saw the Atkins $12MM home run!), and it would be nice to have some hitters in whom we have some confidence. But I still cringe at the Albert Belle days, when I think that the $$ started going to free agents instead of the scouting and farm teams. Can any of you tell me that the "plan" is flawed, and if so, how?

because the high school shortstop was one of the 3 players who separated themselves from everyone else in the draft, but only according to almost all of the scouts.

and the college ss is a spray hitter with not a lot of power who more than likely will be a second baseman

Last yr they get dinged for 'reaching' for Hobgood. This yr they take the solid pick, and you want to give them crap?

Petey Pablo,

That's simply not true.

I'm no draft expert, but Colon was projected to be a top 5 last yr before anybody even knew who Machado was, why do you say he was better ( a lot better) ?

Tom, Anon...

All of this year's draft info I saw (and I'm assuming everyone else saw, because none of us are draft experts) had Machado ranked 2nd or 3rd, and that the top 3 were heads and shoulders above the rest...

Chris, as horrific as the Os have played, I'll still cast my ballot for the negative circle jerk. The Os could drop 120, and the season could not hold a candle to that.
It's HOF material, no doubt.

Isn't it amazing how 99% of the posters own their own business?

SHAM, I'm sorry for the grammatical errors. Seriously though, I could care less. It's a blog and I don't go back and proofread my post before pressing send.
So get out your red pen and obsess away (like usual)

Oregon,

I appreciate your post.

A number of people have been very clear about how and why the Plan has been and continues to be flawed. The 16-41 record simply exemplifies how AM has failed far more than anyone over the last 20 years.

Go back on the blog and read post from Gil, not brooks, Keith, Meso, myself and many others. Go back to the previous two off seasons and you'll see that our predictions have been spot on.

AM has been a fraud for a long time. He admitted failure when talking about his ChiTown days, and he freely admits the O's have taken a 'giant step backwards' this year.

I will admit that he does seem to take responsibility for his failures. As a long time Oriole fan though, i'd rather have a ton of W's, and less honesty from our GM.

The last time MacFail drafted a HS SS out of florida with the 3rd pick it was Lou Montanez !!!!!!!!!!!

Look everyone, I'm back and you're suppose to care. I call people jerks even though I know less about the game then when I used to be around here. I like to say beach every chance i get. as if anyone cares. Truth is I stay away because I'm a dummy and people were catching on.

OregonOriole,

THE PLAN, if you want to call it that, is not different from what any other team, not named the Yankees, does. Every GM in the league wants to grow the arms and buy the bats. But when MacPhail says it, everybody agrees like he is some kind of genius. The problem with that plan is that you don't bring all your arms up all at once like he did last year. At one point the O's had 5 pitchers who debuted. That tied an MLB record I think.

When you're as bad as the O's are, you will not get better by experimenting. You have to start from the bottom. When MacPhail came here, he made the ultimate mistake of trusting what people around here were telling him. How do you even listen to people who have known nothing but losing.

The PLAN should have started with gutting the front office, getting rid of the old guard. Second, he should have gotten rid of all of the scouting department and brought in his own people.

The O's are terrible because they can't recognize talent. The international scouting is a joke.

Thirdly, the minor league system needs to be revamped and stocked, not only with arms, but with bats as well.

Fourth point - Free agency. Don't get stop gap players, but go after legitimate major league worthy players. And I don't even want to hear the argument that nobody wants to come here. For a fair price everybody would want to come here. If everybody wanted to win the World Series instead of going after money, the Yankees would have had a payroll smaller than the Pirates.

Fifth point: Get a major league manager, not a minor league one.

Last point: Get the former Oriole players involved with the team in different capacities. The Yankees are great at doing that.

None of this of course would be possible, unless the crusty old man who runs the Warehouse, doesn't spend much needed money.

Chrissie in HA,

The Os stink

Smart ppl knew in advance that they would stink

They are on pace for 50 wins

Should we talk about rainbows and unicorns ??

How about lollipops and leprechauns?

If u dont like what you're reading then DONT read it !

U've posted way too much bs for me to respect your opinion. You've flat out LIED and made up fabricated posts

If someone is a macfailer and makes a compelling and true argument, I dont mess with them, but ppl like u and shammy that flat out make up lies and act like spin doctors make me wanna puke

If you dont like the "negativism" while the team is on a record setting pace for losing, then don't read it, just dont try to tell anybody else what they are allowed to write

GO drop some acid somewhere or whatever it is you wanna be hippies do for kicks on monday nights

BTW chrisy my post was 1159, not 1142

wayne-

why do you keep talking to me in your posts tonight?

NB-

I would venture to say most teams are lousy at making draft picks, given that teams are limited to 25 players and each year and 50 players are selected year after year.

In '99 the year the O's purged and had 7 picks, they were lucky to end up with BRob as from 13th pick on (their first), the only viable big leaguer in the bunch was Alex Rios.

There is no Ozzie Newsome the MLB draft world.

The MLB draft is a crap shoot. 3 out of the last 10 no 1 overall picks have panned out to date (Price, Mauer, AGonzo, Josh Hamilton and his tattoos don't count)

Keep on beating up AM, it will eat away at you until you start irrationally reasoning like the screwballs on here.

Tampa Bay Rays (for Type B free agent Gregg Zaun (Milwaukee))
Drew Vettleson, RHP, Central Kitsap HS, Silverdale, Wash.

****

How in the hell did Tampa get a comp pick for a light hitting back up catcher??? Does the A/B system take into account 'mentor' ability???

So... if the O's keep Zaun, would they have gotten a comp pick? Rather have a pick than Ryne Hughes.

Oh my, I just agreed with Shammy on something

Hughes is a prototypical AAAA player

TB knew they were losing Pena yet got rid of him anyway

Thats all I needed to know about the guy

The Boston Red Sox took advantage of falling guys as well, landing my No. 10, Bryce Brentz, in the sandwich round. Conventional wisdom on Brentz's struggles this year was that he got a little draft-itis, trying to hit for power at the expense of his overall hit tool, but whatever the reason, he came out of last summer as a likely top-ten pick and the Red Sox were wise to remember that. Similarly, they popped preseason No. 2 prospect Anthony Ranaudo in the sandwich round, and they'll have time now to get comfortable with the state of his elbow before committing what would likely be a top-five-overall bonus if they sign him. At No. 20, they took Kolbrin Vitek, an athletic college hitter with some risk -- he needs to move to the outfield and we don't have wood bat looks at him from past summers -- but the potential upside of an above-average glove in center who provides value with the bat.

Fire Trembley

Petey,

The major flaw with Macphail reign was that he was the wrong person for the job at this stage of his career. Andy is long past the point of empire building. He took this position as one last fling before retirement and possibly the job as commissioner. He came into it with no sense of urgency or real pressure. He was tone deaf to ten staright years of losing and the need to start making things happen. He was satisfied to go about a mehtodical slow motion approach with no measureable time frame or goals for winning in mind. Mentally he was retired. He was absolutely the worst person Angelos could have picked for all of those reasons. In order for the Orioles to move aggressively forward it is necessary to remove him. he is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Isn't it convenient that when first round draft results are shown, they're not meaningful because it's not a complete view of the draft, but then when the entire draft is shown, the the response switches to "the entire draft is meaningless because it's a crapshoot".

I'm cool with the crapshoot response, but at least stay consistent.

Gil - I agree. But it will be a complete rebuild, that's all. Don't expect winning seasons until 2015, best case.

Petey, a new and younger, more dynamic and in touch GM would certainly take the orgainization in a new direction. But he would understand that in any plan the following issues must be addressed: What? Who? How? Where?, How much? and When? I'm not sure Macphail ever really addressed all of these issues. I wonder if he ever did put a detailed business plan into Angelos hands. His plan was probably a one pager with one paragraph: "Trade veterens for prospects. Sign more washed up veterens, trade for prospects."

Signed, Andy

Pete,

Why do you have a picture of Verne Troyer next to this blog entry?

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: That's a fair question.

Pete,

Just read your reply to my last post. I think you are right about the first year. But everything since has looked like the first year. My point is that Andy has had{FIll in the Blank Years} and the team is worse. You are also correct that I firmly believe that the team will never move forward as long as he is the GM, I would like to see him fired and replaced and I am not at all ashamed to claim that I am right. I hope we have something else to talk about next year other than Andy Macphail, losing, and "the plan." He has accumulated too much baggage and needs to go, all his fault or not..