I think King Peter should fire both Trembley and MacPhail.Actually MacPhail is more at fault for the sad state of affairs of this year's Oriole team because he's had ample time to at least put a competitive team on the field. He even signed death wish when he said publicly that this year's team would be judged on its' results/time to be held accountable etc..
Baltimore is becoming the laughing-stock of MLB and a 15-36 record is an embarrassment. MacPhail should be hanging his head in shame!
I suspect that Trembley will be fired soon but not MacPhail.
And as far as the discussion about Gonzalez coming to Balt. in a trade?? There's no way that will happen. San Diego is actually contending so why even trade him anyway? They can easily pony up the $$$ needed to keep him but if not, I'm sure most MLB teams have more to offer than the O's. Scan down the O's roster and who would even draw any interest? Even Markakis isn't a sure thing, Roberts may never bounce back and at 10 mill/yr?, Jones is a crapshoot, and most of the veterans wouldn't even make many teams as a backup.
This would leave Wieters and some starters but even if SD traded Adrian Gonzalez for a package, it just creates more holes. It's too bad our minor leagues are so barren because that's where we should be developing and promoting talent. From what it seems,our minor league system has few position players that are close to being ready(if at all) for the 'bigs'.

Pete,

In my opinionTerryP's post reflects the mood of the remaining fans in this town. Terry has been on this blog like many of us since you started it. Terry has supported Macphail through thick and thin until recently when it became apparent to him, like it did to many of us earlier, that Macphail has no real plan other than to trade a few veterens for prospetcs and bring in washed up veterens as placesitters for the prospects..... Prospects that are not even close to promotion to the major Leagues.

I'm sure Dave Trembley is about to get fired, and I have never been one to call for his head, he is a foil and a scapegoat. Yes, as you said is a horrible situation. It was a horrible situation when Andy got here and somehow he managed to make it worse. As Brooks robinson might say, 'That's pretty hard to do."

Pete: as per yesterday, I believe the local fans would benefit from an article detailing how the Orioles' team payroll has shrunk since the glory days of the late 1990s. Then the team payroll was neck and neck with the Yankees for the highest in the majors, actually even highest one year. Maybe the team can't afford to pay $200 million as NY does, but paying the same dollar amount as 13 years ago amounts to a drastic shrinkage in inflation-adjusted dollars.

The notion of firing Macphail shows a total lack of understanding about rebuilding a franchise that was depleted in all areas. It aint happening no matter how many stupid petitions get passed around. I think after *21 years (dog years) he deserves at least 14 more to get this ship righted.
Yeah, lets fire Andy and get Billy Beane to come here. He's won at least one World Series hasn't he? If only we had Matt Holliday everything would be fine.

Why drag this thing out? There is no doubt that it is time for a managerial change. With the team's poor play and worst record in the majors, the attendance down even further, the regression of the team to it's lowest level in 20 year(and this is hard to do) and poor roster and farm system, it is time to cut ties and move forward. It is a disservice to Trembley and the fans to leave him as a lame duck manager.

After firing Trembley, it is time that Mr. Angelos evaluate AM and the job he has done. All of baseball seemed to believe he is doing good job in restocking the farm system. However, injuries really show that the farm system is devoid of major league ready position players. The players that he has brought in over the last three years have nearly all failed. The young pitchers that we've placed all of our hopes on. do not seem to be good as pitchers of similar experience and age on other teams. Matusz, Tillman, Hernandez, Bergensen, Wieter, Jones, and even Markakis would not have prominent place on half or more of major league team. How could the O's management be so fooled??? Although these players to have potential, our coaching staff does not seem to be able to bring out the best in our young players. Our entire organization needs to be evaluated and compared to the best teams such as Tampa and even the Yanks to see why we continue to fall short. Money is not the only factor because the Yanks have also developed many of their players (e.g. Cano, Hughes, Cervelli) and select wisely (i.e. Swisher). We just do not seem to have an eye for talent.

We need to turn the page and move on. However, both Trembley and AM need to go as both are equally responsible for this mess that known as the Baltimore Orioles.

Matt Holliday 2010
5 HR 18 RBI's $16,000,000
obligated for another $100,000,000 plus

O's Left fielders 2010
4 HR 16 RBI's $less than $1,000,000
Obligation next year $0

Pete,
I don't know you and I don't believe we have ever met but I learned a life lesson from you that came in handy yesterday.
Walking out of my Orlando home, I spotted one of our resident turtles checking out how the other half lives. He was just sitting in the middle of the street. As I approached him I suddenly remembered your encounter in Ft. Lauderdale with a wayward turtle. So holding him at arm's length with his north side facing north and his south side facing true south off we went to the sanctuary of the lake.
This thing was a little smaller than a hub cap but he managed a steady stream for the whole 100 or so yards until I put him down on the bank.
With all the trials and tribulations swirling around the O's this year, it must be gratifying to know that you make the world a better place one drop at a time.
Thanks Pete!

gil. You summarized my thoughts(and likely those of many others who check in here on a regular basis).
I have been an Orioles fans since the early 60's and I don't think I've ever been as discouraged as I have been this year. I 'bought' into the MacPhail 'plan' despite my initial reservations with some of his moves because I always want to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Besides, you can't go too far off in a rebuild by focusing on pitching.
Unfortunately, you need the other pieces too and MacPhail just hasn't filled them and the sad reality is that it isn't going to happen any time soon.
We still don't have any decent corner IF/DH or a dependable 3 or 4th OF. Our 'pen is in shambles and half the guys wearing the black and orange either should be in the minors or out of pro ball completely.
Like many fans, I come here to vent and receive some type of 'therapy' from others who feel like you. I have a hard time following the O's like I sued to but the glutton for punishment side of me still makes me peek at the scores now and then.
The weekend sweep at the hands of the Jays was particularly bad, because that's a team I can't stand. Despite that, the Jays are doing many things right and they may be ready to compete sooner than many of the so-called experts thought.
Meanwhile, many Orioles look as if they are packing it in before June and look like they'd rather be having root canal than going out on the field.

Two senario’s one realistic the other not so much; (1) fire Trembley now and bring in a new manager to muddle through the rest of the season and (2) Angelos realizes what a pig he is and he begins to listen to the experts (he is not a baseball man) and the team adjusts its’ poor direction and the apathy that exists changes to excitement.

Jusbob,
A man and a boy are walking on the beach after a huge storm. There are starfish washed up on the sand for as far as the eye can see; certain to bake and die in the sun. The man picks up one, and tosses it back into the water. The boy says, "That's not going to make a difference". The man replies, "It will to that one". Good deeds make for good karma. Good job.

anonymous/smitty/shamrock

Why do u care about saving Petey money ?

He gets money hand over fist from MASN

BTW

at the end of the yr, he'll have better numbers than our LFers combined, he would also provide protection for markakis which would help his numbers too. Try to qunatify that one, Mr Devout MacFAil Apologist

His 900 ops will be better than our RF too

Q: R u counting stats of the LFs when they are DHing too ?

Are u adding up the numbers of all the LFers or did u go through every box score of who was playing LF every day?

COunting Scott's HRs when he's the DH is inaccurate and misleading

TerryP,

I grew up with the Orioles and the Colts and still follow the Orioles on TV although now I spend the majority of my time watching the York Revolution play in the Atlantic League. Good baseball, great seats, reasonable concessions. Saw Matt Riley win a game Saturday and save one yesterday. He is throwing in the mid 90's consistently. The Oakland A's signed York's right fielder Friday, former Oriole Val Majewski, wjo was having a great season, .328 average, .500 on base percenatge. The A's also signed the Atlantic League's top reliever off York's roster, Jesus Sanchez who had a 1.63 era in 24 appearnces. Nasty low 90's sinker. I find it intereseting that The A's, 3000 miles away saw something in York that the Orioles, 60 miles away, did not.

I cancelled my full season ticket plan with the Orioles that I held for over 25 years and only bought a 15 game plan this year which will be my last. I went to opening day and am giving the other tickets away. I'm done as far as going in person. I too had hope when andy Macphail was hired, but Andy is way over rated and is living off his father's success. Lee Macphail came to the Orioles in 1958 from a successful career as an executive in the Yankees organization. As President and general Manager he was largely responsible for putting together the nucleous of the great Oriole teams.

Unfortunately, Andy Macphail can't come close to his father as far as baseball acumen. I saw early on that Andy had little game other than to try a 1960's rebuilding template. He traded a few veterens for prospects and has largely lived off the Bedard trade.

Now, in his 4th season as GM he has made a bad situation worse and unless he is fired the Orioles will experience results similar to those so far on his watch..92, 93, 98, and almost certain to be 100 losses in 2010. he has not stabilzed the situation since he got here in early June 2007. We are all disappointed that his great name did not translate to success with the Orioles. He may be a great guy and a wonderful father, but he has been just a terrible GM and needs to go.

Know what? Who cares?

They've lost over 70% of their games and have averaged 2.25 runs in those losses. And they've blown a significant amount of those losses in the late innings. Thus, over 70% of the season has been a complete waste of time and energy.

I'll be curious again come trade deadline time, which will then, of course, lead into a monumentally pitiful Aug.-Sep.
Can't wait for the spin from the apologists.

Just fire Trembley already

DO the guy a favor

Its not his fault, but the Orioles do need to someone to challenge dopey macfail when he brings in a slug like atkins as his "impact bat" (macfail really used that term! true story, u couldnt make that up--650ops for the past 3 yrs away from coors nothwithstanding)

Clearly, macfail's judgement stinks. He hasnt done anything since MN except have 4 winning and 13 soon to be 14 losing seasons. He couldnt flourish in the NL central, despite having the most resources in the division. How in the world is he supposed to win in the al east???)

The game has passed him by, he was 45 million away from signing Tex.

he's like somebody's grandfather who doesnt know what things cost anymore. Your cell phone dies and he gives u a dime to make a phone call

Given the atkins acquisition, Im doubting that he's even competent with the internets, lol

Mr. MacPhail cannot be held responsible for the fact there were no viable 1st basemen in free agency last year. That being said, the distinct lack of power on this team is what the main problem is with a minor in bullpen. Don't forget that a year after 1988, we were competitive in '89. This is going to take a while O's fans!

I have been an Orioles fan since 1966. I lost a little interest the day free agency took hold and the O's lost Reggie Jackson; a bit more (curiously) when they signed Robbie Alomar (just my realization that players were totally in it for the money); a bit more when Jon Miller was run out of town, and the last bit was lost when Davey Johnson was run out of town.

I kept tabs on what the team did in the meantime - and the actions of the owner and the front office, and certainly the team, didn't impress me. What got me re-interested was when McPhail was hired, and the big trades of Tejada and Bedard really looked like moves in the right direction. Finally, too, it looked like the farm system was starting to produce. I paid attention to the team last year - not because I thought the team was going to be good, but I thought the team might end up being competitive the next year for the first time in a long time.

And, I do think this team is better than last years - at least personnel-wise. But I obviously picked a bad time to watch more Orioles baseball than I have in a long time. This team simply, from this fan's perspective, doesn't even try. Trembly is at fault, and too, I can't leave McPhail blameless. In a weak free-agent class, the pickups of Adkins and Gonzalez must have been at the bottom of the class.

I tried becoming a Redskins fan when the Colts left town, but that didn't work - I'm a Baltimore guy through and through. I won't be a Nationals fan. But, this Orioles team hasn't done much to win this once-fanatical fan over, and I really gave them a chance this year. Someone let me know when they (the players and the front office) decide to start trying, and I'll start paying attention again.

I am 14 years old. I have gotten to the point of wearing a bag over my head when i go to games. Trembley, Kranitz, and the crow need to go. Just clean house. Bring in Murray (hitting coach), Ripken (manager), palmer (pitching coach). We have the richest owner in baseball with the oil settlement. So you can buy vets to go in bullpen. Trade for fielder and sign pujols out of free agency i off season. This is what our lineup should look like next year.

1- Roberts (second)
2- Jones (center)
3- Markakis (right)
4- Pujols (first)
5- Fielder (DH)
6- Wieters (catcher)
7- Tejada or Bell (third)
8- Wigginton (short)
9- Pie (left)

I agree with comments that Trembley should be given the axe. The team clearly isn't willing to play for him, which is a sure sign that he is ineffective, or even listen to him. The team went into its series with Toronto needing to accomplish two main things, take pitches to force their pitchers to pitch and avoid first pitch meatballs to a team feasting on first pitch strikes. They failed to do both, which either means they aren't listening to the coaching staff or the coaching staff isn't producing the right game plans. The team also has failed miserably with fundamentals: a mountain of errors (that don't even include the many balls "lost in the sun") a multitude of base running gaffes and a complete lack of feel in how long to play starting pitchers or use relievers. These are all managerial issues. Ido feel MacPhail is moving this team in the right direction. Markakis is the real deal. Matusz began the season well. But pitching great games, only to end up losing them is killing the confidence for this 23 year old. You've got to give these young pitchers some run support to work with. Likewise, you've got to give a guy like Wieters some protection in the lineup or he won't get pitches to hit.

Keep the hope alive, Brandon. But Wiggy @ SS? That could get ugly.

When I was 14 the O's had a magical season - 1989. Here's betting 2011 doesn't mirror the following of the previous 'worst year ever.'

What makes anyone think Pujols is coming here to play 1B and bat clean up? Note: Pujols hit 2 more HR in a single game the other day than our 1B have hit all season. COMBINED.

Keep dreaming those pipe dreams though, it will help get you through losing season number 13 in a row.

Keep up the good work Mr MacPhail and Mr Angelos, you guys are doing a fantastic job (for your pockets).

While I think DT is doing the best he can and playing the hand he was dealt, a change needs to be made. things can't keep going as they are. I don't know who the next mgr should be but wonder why so many people think Cal is the answer. He has no coaching/managing experience so what makes him qualified? Eddie Murray has had a couple of stints as hitting coach with less than stellar results, i'm pretty sure. And Palmer has no coaching experience. Maybe Don Baylor--- he is definitely a no nonsense guy. Someone has to hold these guys accountable for the same mistakes over and over. And also let him bring in his own staff. Just my two cents worth

Fire the manager or don't fire the manager -- the difference in results will be negligible until we find 3, 4, and 5 hitters in the lineup; the starting pitching matures; and the bullpen finds lockdown late-inning relievers.

Sadly, at this time, our starting rotation is the only one of those deficiencies that even shows hope for the future.

I'm a huge O's fan, believe in building the right way, but how do we plug those holes for next season? I'll hang on every inning of every game for the rest of this season -- no matter how bad it may get -- but the reality is that the O's are not going to improve significantly this year. A new manager might bring a spark, but you're really arguing over maybe five to ten more wins this season.

Let's look at what we actually have.

Markakis is a 2 hitter. He could hit in a few other spots in the lineup, but we won't win against good teams with him in the 3 - 5 spots. Simply not enough pop in his bat.

Jones may develop into something more in the future, but I wouldn't bank on a consistent, All-Star performance based on what he's shown this year. Can he be a big time 3 or 5 hitter? I'm not even sure he can still catch fly balls on the run.

For all the doubters that have been springing up on Wieters lately, his numbers still are pretty decent after one year of catching in the big leagues. But he, too, hasn't shown enough to bet your franchise on. He's another guy who could eventually grow into a middle of the lineup guy, but he might just as easily be a solid 6 - 8 hitter (especially in a good lineup).

So where do we get the heart of a batting order?

We have two young left field prospects who could be nice complimentary players, but neither is a dominant middle of the lineup guy. Not the answer.

We have a decent 3b prospect in Bell, an interesting power bat in Waring, and a long-term project in Rowell who still struggles. Who would bet the franchise on any of them in the middle of the lineup? Not me. Any of them could grow into a very good player, but none has shown enough to be convincing. Not the answer.

At 1B? For all of the pre-season talk about Snyder growing into a professional hitter and eventually developing power, he's regressed. Our minor league 1B have no power. You can shift Bell or Waring to 1B and you now have one less chance of developing a legitimate 3B bat. Still not the answer.

As for SS, with the possible exception of Michael Gyvens (who hasn't been around long enough to project), our minor league shortstops aren't exactly projected to hit 30 HR per season (although some seem desinted to make 30+ errors per year). No help there.

Those are really the spots in the field where the O's could grow in their current configuration. So how do we plug those holes?

I'm open to all suggestions on where we find a middle of the lineup for next year. Except, please don't say Adrian Gonzalez. He's a great ballplayer, but the Padres aren't trading him. They are close enough to contend, and his salary is incredibly cheap for a 1B -- particularly one of the top 1B in the league. If you want Fielder, how do you get him? Do you want Carlos Pena? He's certainly better than what we have (and it would hurt the Rays to lose him), but I've never been sold on Pena. Who else will actually be available before next season?

And where are we going to get a bullpen? Hernandez? TBD as to whether he could close. Mickolio just got lit up for the second time in a week and is looking like the project he is. Our best minor league bullpen arm is out for the season with reconstructive surgery. And I might still be able to throw as hard as our $12 mil closer. Seriously. The O's have spent more bad money on the bullpen in the past 5 - 6 years than probably any MLB team. Will they be willing to spend on the bullpen again, particularly when they are still on the hook for Gonzalez?

So for the future, do we find help in the draft? Maybe ... but I don't think an "A-Rod light" shortstop from Florida or a 6'7" high school pitcher throwing 94 - 99 is going the help NEXT season (or the season after that). If we find help in this draft, it's almost certainly going to be for three or more years down the road.

Solutions ... anyone? Real solutions -- not Gonzalez or Holliday (still) or Pujols or "Angelos has to sell the team!" Can trading Millwood (and Tejada, Wigginton, Scott, or any of the other veterans) at least get us a legitimate shortstop or closer prospect? Or is it just very sad when you're hoping that Ty Wigginton stays hot long enough to be worthy of a High A prospect from a contending team?

I'm not giving up ... not on the O's or the plan. But without much progress being made by the young hitters this season -- and actually a good amount of regression -- somebody please explain to me what the plan is. Not the "buy the bats, grow the arms" plan, but how that translates into buying enough bats and growing enough arms so that we put a decent team on the field next year.

The concept is sound. The execution has been awful. Fire Trembley if you want, but Wigginton is probably still going to bat cleanup.

Looking for a little Orioles Magic,
Moe

On another note: What genius in the MLB scheduling brain trust decided to have no game on one of the three major national summertime holidays?

I feel sorry for ya kid

When I was 14, the Os had not yet had a losing season in my life ;(

Times have changed

When my renewal payment for extra innings comes, I'm not renewing. I've had it for years just to watch the Orioles

MLB, you can thank the sorry state of the Orioles for losing a customer. IF someone from the MLB offices could tell the Marlins owner to spend some money, why can't they do the same to Angelos ?

Isn't anyone in MLB concerned that a team that once drew nearly 4 million fans has 5k people show up for a game ?

DJ

Spoken like a true apologist

And like most apologists completely INACCURATE and UNTRUE

Huff, Branyan, Hinske, Laroche were all better options and are all putting up better numbers and I think they are all doing it cheaper than the 5 mil due Atkins

Blalock has only played 8 gms and he already has better number than Atkins

Its not like Atkins 3 yr road ops of 650 was an indication of a slow bat or anything

Cant go reading into 3 straight yrs of declining numbers either

Atkins was not only a turrible signing, it was obvious to even the most casual fan

TonyC

What makes you think MacFail has the team heading in the "right direction" ?

Is it the declining win totals or the increasing loss totals ?

Last yr there were 5 more losses than the yr before

It looks like that trend will continue. If it does, the Os would lose 103 gms this yr

Do you call 100+ loss season after 3 yrs on the job as the "right direction" ?

The Tigers went from 119 losses to the WS in 3 yrs. Macfail is going backwards

The crow will fix atkins bat

Just u watch!!!

Its only April, I mean May

Andy is waiting and debating

Its really about the yr after next

I hope that there is room on the bandwagon

I too feel sorry for today's 14 year old Os fans... when I was 14, it was 1964 and the Os were on the door-steps of detroning the mighty yankees and becoming great... an awesome time to be an Os fan. There hasn't been any joy in Crabtown since 1997... who can complain about a wire-to-wire season? Now retired, it is first time in some 40+ years that I don't care about the Os games. Sure, I'll still go to my 20 games, but I no longer have the need to have every game on the TV or the radio. After being a diehard Os fan for so long, this season has been a very tough pill to swallow; more so than "normal".

In other words, it's been a lousey Spring and it looks like the Summer is going to be worse. And what makes it more worse? Even those who have been saying "just wait for 2011 and 2012 when the arms have grown", now have to face the reality that it's much worse than "worse".

Don't make us look at the Ravens and Terps schedules aready! It's only May 31st! Do something!

Lee Macphail acquires an "impact" bat...during the 1965 offseason Lee Macphail then President and General Manager of the Orioles trades Milt Pappas, arguably the team's best pitcher to The Reds for Frank Robinson. Pappas, then only 26 had a record of 110-74 with a 3.40 ERA in 8 full seasons with the Orioles. The Orioles win the World Series in 1966. Lee Macphail knew that you had to give up something to get something.

Offseason 2009....Lee Macphail's son, Andy,President of Baseball operations and functional GM of the Orioles acquires his "impact' bat...he signs free agent Garrrett Atkins...the Orioles go on to lose 100 games.

Moral? Lee Macphail recognized talent when he saw it and was willing to give up talent. Andy Macphail doesn't recognize the lack of talent when he sees it and wouldn't give up anything to get it anyway even if he fell over a future triple crown winner.

Hey I have a great idea,
Let's move the team to Las Vegas!

Gil. I can see your logic in watching Minor League ball-it's cheaper and the players for the most part, probably show more hustle.
The sad part about the current Orioles' team is that even if they lost a pile of games there was always one or 2 guys that you'd like to see play-Mussina/Ripken/Tejada (in his hey-day)or Bedard when healthy. Now, most of the players don't give you much reason to cheer, either by sad faces or lack of results.
I've been to quite a few MLB parks and from a cost standpoint, OPCY is still a great deal but I'm guessing that many fans are giving up their season tickets and/or finding other options with their leisure time and money.
Moe-good post! The fact that Wiggy is batting cleanup pretty much summarizes the sad state of our offense! Wiggy has historically been target of many fans(myself included) but he actually is putting up some decent numbers. Just keep him off the field and DH him. He's still a platoon player on most decent teams and chances are, he will cool off soon and revert back to his old self.

The Orioles can't manufacture runs to save their lives and it's the direct fault of the manager, who simply doesn't call for plays to move runners along and avoid double-plays.

I'm tired of people saying stupid things like even LaRussa or Torre couldn't win with this team.

THIS TEAM IS NOT THAT BAD !

I garry-dam-teeya either Torre or LaRussa would have this team around .500 right now because they know how to play fundamental baseball.

You can add Soscia to that list as well.

Get Tremblry back to the minor leagues where he belongs.

trembly does need to go there is no fire in him and the team follows there manager and theres no fire in our team.second we have to realize that andy is not to blame on who he got for this team.we must realize that angelos is still in control of the money he spends and he's not letting him spend it.angelos must get over the fear of players gettting hurt after signing them every team goes through that chance .what we really need is a new owner.

The Nationals had a manager that they liked but the manager that they have now got better results from the exact same team. I was excited when they made Trembley the permanent manager and I will be very happy when they relieve him of his current duties. Go figure?

Hiring Dave was a little like buying a boat.

Bear the Birdfan- "THIS TEAM IS NOT THAT BAD !"

I'm sure that is what you said before they were swept by Toronto. Your record is the gauge of your success. Anything else is excuses,

bear

how did u like scott moore and his 2 errors in the 1st inning the other day ?

Werent u saying how great his defense was ?

that .235 career batting avg will make sure that his terrible defense wont keep him out of the line up, lol

05.27.09Schmuck : I Have Seen The Future of Rock’n'Roll The Baltimore Orioles & It’s Name Is Bruce Springsteen Matt Wieters

Orioles fans have been waiting to hear this since Wieters became one of the most prized draft picks in club history in 2007. The waiting for Wieters became almost unbearable as he tore through two levels of the minor league system last year and batted .333 in the Grapefruit League this spring. The clock began ticking louder when he bounced back from an April hamstring injury and started to heat up at the plate at Triple-A Norfolk during the past couple of weeks.

He is the embodiment of the new era that Orioles fans have been awaiting for more than a decade. He is the jewel of a rebuilding plan that has gathered steam with a series of recent roster moves, including the one that put Triple-A Norfolk call-up Jason Berken on the mound to deliver a scrappy five-inning performance against the Toronto Blue Jays on Tuesday night.

The changeover has been swift — so swift that it’s getting to the point where you can’t tell the players without a Norfolk program. Brad Bergesen was called up in April to replace Alfredo Simon. Nolan Reimold came up two weeks ago and took over most of the playing time in left field. Rich Hill came off the disabled list 11 days ago to deliver a pair of solid starts against the Kansas City Royals and Washington Nationals. Berken wasn’t even through his third inning when MacPhail made the Wieters announcement and hinted that another Triple-A pitcher could be headed here to make Thursday night’s start.

Who knows how this group of unproven young players will perform the rest of the way, but one thing is certain. The 2009 season, which seemed so hopeless a few days ago, suddenly is relevant again. Every remaining game has an extra layer of meaning. The future will be right here in front of your eyes, and there is more to come.

joefoss

bear doesnt think angelos is a bad owner either

that shows what his agenda is

Perhaps AM needs to read the chapter from his fathers book on hiring a manager. Don't ingnore a former yankee who knows how to play winning baseball and who knows how to get the most out of his players. Hank Bauer was used to winning, liked winning and wouldn't accept losing. We must get someone from a winning program and let that person do, and insist on others doing, the important things that winning teams do. Overpay for this person if you have to.
Like others who post here I'm a businessman and success is no accident. We plan for success and we don't do it alone. Andy, you should surround yourself with proven successful baseball people. NO more first timers! This culture of losing has to stop. If my competition is better than me in some areas I find out what they are doing and I begin doing it. My first trip to Memorial Stadium was in 64 and I was 8. All I ever knew was winning baseball and I loved it. It bothers me that I no longer want watch my team and when I do I can't watch after the 7th inning. This ship has no rudder and a deckhand is at the wheel.

Perhaps AM needs to read the chapter from his fathers book on hiring a manager. Don't ingnore a former yankee who knows how to play winning baseball and who knows how to get the most out of his players. Hank Bauer was used to winning, liked winning and wouldn't accept losing. We must get someone from a winning program and let that person do, and insist on others doing, the important things that winning teams do. Overpay for this person if you have to.
Like others who post here I'm a businessman and success is no accident. We plan for success and we don't do it alone. Andy, you should surround yourself with proven successful baseball people. NO more first timers! This culture of losing has to stop. If my competition is better than me in some areas I find out what they are doing and I begin doing it. My first trip to Memorial Stadium was in 64 and I was 8. All I ever knew was winning baseball and I loved it. It bothers me that I no longer want watch my team and when I do I can't watch after the 7th inning. This ship has no rudder and a deckhand is at the wheel.

Yes, this team is that bad.

It is conceptually vacuous. There is little power, little patience, not much in batting average, little on-base percentage, and little speed. Manufacturing runs with this mishmosh of one-dimesional players means giving up outs when outs are already coming a-plenty.

That is a convenient excuse for this manager except his moves defy explanation although he dutifully tries to offer one gaffe after gaffe. I'm not talking about disagreeing with decisions of his -- heck, I disagreed with decisions made by Weaver, Oates, Johnson and Hargrove. Those four managers were somewhere between above average and great.

More importantly, they had reasons for the decisions they made which were backed up by some sort of stat or precedent.

Not Trembley.

As for this team having a bankrupt farm system when MacPhail got here, guess what. It's still bankrupt.

Players who show the first signs of being something more than nothing are immediately placed at a higher level than where they belong. The others show little or no improvement along the way -- including players who were inherited by MacPhail.

While it is certainly true it takes time to build a good farm system, it also takes other ingredients at the other end. That does mean free agents. That does mean trades for already major league talent.

It means you target players who fit a profile you want so the team -- the big league team -- has a concept.

It also means you try to sign a star or -- better sit down first -- even two. If said star or stars don't come here, so be it. But you do try. Genuinely try.

Then, you try to acquire players who (1) make your major league club better, and (2) might have trade value or supplemental pick value when they leave.

This is vitally important for the minor league system as well even if the major league club muddles close or under .500.

You see, while you are trying to draft and develop the right players at one end, you must prevent them from moving through the system too quickly at the other end.

Your "tub of talent" isn't going "to fill" if you run the faucet and keep the drain open at the same time.

And as a bonus, the beleaguered fans will have a team that has a chance to win every single night even ifd the losses still exceed the wins when it is all added up at the end.

The real kicker is acquiring a closer with very few credentials that also cost the team a second round draft choice. This absolutely cannot be defended as it goes against the flawed plan supposedly in place.

There is absolutely nothing right about this organization right now. A few good prospects here, a couple good players there, probably a few good baseball men sprinkled throughout -- but basically nothing.

The plan is flawed. Its execution is flawed. The people associated with it is flawed.

Memorial Day is generally perceived as the first milepost in the baseball season where a sufficient number of games have been played to assess/project each team's probability for success for the full season.
Given that the Orioles have played roughly 1/3 of the season, there's enough information and results available to gauge the direction of the club for the remainder of 2010.

If the Orioles were a publicly held corporation with as much futility as they have experienced over the past decade plus, you can be sure that the board of directors would have demanded that a independent consulting group be engaged to perform a complete top-to-bottom review of every facet of the organization. Since the team isn't publicly held, they are under no obligation to do so; however, that doesn't preclude us from having our own State-of-the-Orioles review.

While there will be some bias involved in my comments, I've tried to look at the performance of key people not in light of what subsequently occurred (hindsight), but rather their actions or lack thereof at the time.

If we were to look at other sports teams who have experienced continuous periods of losing over a statistically valid time period (like the Pirates, L. A. Clippers, Oakland Raiders, etc), we'd find similar characteristics. Bad ownership, inept management, an uninspired or complicit media, and a weary and perhaps too accepting fan base. In this regard the Orioles are no different.

Given the number of abysmal years here, it is not surprising that there is much blame to go around. Any analysis of the team's problems has to start at the top because it's the owner who signs the checks. Now Peter Angelos is neither the first nor will he be the last owner of a team who has experienced difficulty in transferring business success to his sports franchise. However, he has had a direct part in decisions which have caused great harm to the team. First, he slow balled players as they approached free agency and wound up either losing valuable assets (for the Orioles) like Mussina and B. J. Ryan or spending extra money by adding years to contracts for Brady Anderson and (I also believe) B. J. Surhoff to retain them once other teams got involved. He also made repeated errors in executive personnel--not trusting good baseball people like Pat Gillick and Frank Wren and then backing off with guys who had less impressive resumes like Syd Thrift and Mike Flanagan/Jim Beattie. Those decisions hurt the club not only at the major league level, but also throughout the organization. We still haven't recovered from all the years of inept management. Give Angelos credit for finally realizing that the team needed a new direction--hence the arrival of Andy MacPhail in June, 2007.

MacPhail seemed to be a good pick as he was GM during the Twins two World Series titles and had also been in Baltimore during the years his father was erecting the building blocks that would later translate into great success for the organization. At the same time, Andy's tenure in Chicago was checkered. The Cubs did get to the playoffs under his watch, but his slow, plodding style and failure to spend appropriately for that big market team created great stress between him and his bosses at the Chicago Tribune. By the time he left the Cubs, there was no one lamenting his departure.

Since Andy is the lead baseball man for the Orioles, it fell to him to define a vision for the team. However, while his oft stated "Grow the arms; buy the bats" mantra has gotten much play in the media, over time there has been little concrete evidence as to just how the Orioles are going to execute on this, but more than ample occurrences wherein we've learned what the team is NOT prepared to do. Andy has said that the team will not target top free agents at this time, trade significant prospects for a front line player(s), that we're not going to be players for top international talent (where club fees are involved), and we appear to have no interest in signing international free agents such as Miguel Angel Sana and Aroldis Chapman even when no bidding war arises. That would seem to leave only internal growth and development.

While MacPhail can't reasonably be tagged with the Orioles being late to the party of identifying and developing the Dominican Republic and other Latin America markets (including the construction of the baseball academy), I think it is fair to hold him accountable for the fact that the Orioles, according to published accounts, still have only two full-time international scouts. By comparison, Boston has 14. He deserves credit for finally getting the team to a much improved spring training facility since his predecessors couldn't accomplish this task for the better part of twenty years. At the same time, it is realistic to say that he has had three years to fix the bullpen problems and has not been able to construct one that is additive to the team's fortunes.

While I do not believe that one can question MacPhail's baseball knowledge, I think it is fair to ask whether he has the right mentality for the task at hand. He grew up in a world that looks little like the baseball landscape today. I think he still believes in the traditional approach of growing a team, but the reality is that the Orioles compete in a division with the top two spenders in the sport and a third team (the Rays) that has shown vast superiority in identifying and developing talent. Perhaps coincidentally (or not), those three teams are led by much younger and more dynamic executives.
Bottom line on MacPhail, as he has said himself, is to judge the team on wins and losses now. By that scorecard, he is failing.

Management of the team includes coaching throughout the organization as well as scouting and drafting. So much has been said and written about Dave Trembley so there's not much to be added here except for two points that I've never seen or read. First, let's acknowledge that he appears to be a classsy, stand-up guy who has been dealt a loser's hand....just as Mike Hargrove, Lee Mazzilli and Sam Perlozzo were before him. A manager is not responsible for acquiring players, only for their best utilization. No question that Dave got off to a tough start losing Brian Roberts, but injuries happen to all clubs. The Yankees for example have their starting center fielder and catcher on the DL now. Boston has Beckett down now also. Problem is that the Orioles are razor thin so every missing piece becomes a glaring deficiency. This is not Dave's fault.

Trembley's biggest weaknesses lie in that, baseball aside, he doesn't know how to manage people or process. First, he has broken the cardinal rules of management that every manager in every business understands. NEVER SAY ANYTHING THAT YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO BACK UP, and BE CONSISTENT. During the winter, he volunteered that he would hold the players more accountable for their actions. Yet, almost from the get go,
he let things pass. In spring training, the club told Adam Jones to play deeper. The player's reaction...basically was "I'll think about it". When Lugo stayed in the batter's box in Anaheim with a sawed off bat in his hand and didn't run to first, Dave said "I didn't see it". There are countless other examples, but when the authority figure does not exercise authority, he loses the respect of his employees. {Same thing that happens to a parent.]

Dave continually shows his players how little confidence he has in them. Instead of telling Bergesen last Thursday that, after having just retired 14 batters before giving up a hit, he's the guy to get through the inning, he pulls him. Then, Dave turns right around and does the same thing to Birken after one batter. Since the team is going nowhere this year, can't we at least try to develop a bulldog mentality in our pitchers? Dave worries about pitch counts, but then he pulled Bergesen even though he had thrown only 93. Someone also needs to remind him that burning up one of your most effective relievers (Birken) after one batter doesn't help. Employees perform best when they believe their bosses inspire and demonstrate confidence in them.

The problems with the Orioles go way beyond Dave Trembley however. Take the two key coaches, Crowley and Kranitz. If we believe that the job of the coach is to make players appreciably better over a sustained period of time, can anyone point to ANY player on the team this year or during the past 3-4 years that has benefited from their coaching? Crowley's philosophy of going after the first pitch (because it may be the best one the batter will see in an at bat) runs counter to the "be patient" approach practiced by teams like NY and Boston. It's also counter intuitive. Since a team's best pitchers are the starters who can get through the line-up 3-4 times each game, it's logical that you increase the opportunity to win by getting to the other team's bullpen as early as possible. If the bullpen members had the kind of stuff that could last the entire game (see Birken and Hernandez) they'd be starters.

The Orioles philosophy only helps keep the opponents starting pitcher deep in games, AND hurts the team's starting pitching at the same time. Yesterday, the team did Guthrie no favors by getting through an inning on only 8 pitches after Jeremy had thrown well over 20. If Tejada won't do it on his own, then give him two take signs to start the inning and if he swings before the third pitch, then bench him. He's not the only one.

Final comment left for scouting/drafting.
If we're hoping to draft our way out of the mess we're in, how much confidence should we have? After we drafted Matt Hobgood last year with the fifth selection, well above where he was projected by the scouting agencies, Joe Jordan, Orioles head of scouting, said that Hobgood would be on a five year plan to get to the big leagues. My reaction to this was to question whether, with the opportunity to take arguably the fifth best amateur player in the United States, the Orioles couldn't find someone who could make it through before five years---especially after 13 straight losing seasons.Turns out that two pitchers taken later in the first round have already found their way to the major leagues--Leake with the Reds and Drew Storen with the Nats.

I have some thoughts on the role of the media in this horror show, and how the team can move in the right direction, but as this has already been entirely too long, I'll save those for another time.

Not much talk about the curse of "Proud Pete" effect. The real catastrophes are part of this curse. Curse1) A really talented veteran team in 2005, derailed by the steroids scandal, and wasting a superb 1st place start ... Curse2) Adam Loewen was an excellent prospect pitcher, but the CURSE brought him a career-ending injury in his very first year! Curse3) French-frying some very good managers (Hargrove and Perlozzo) who did good with poor talent .. Curse4) Pulling the Al Davis by firing a magnificent manager after losing very tough championship games (Davey Johnson) ... Curse5) Ever more catastrophic injuries at the perfect time to kill recovery - Brian Roberts Curse6) Total bust hitters very expensive -- Atkins and Belle ... Curse7) Total refusal to sell to the Good Man, Cal Ripken. ..... The Orioles are doomed. They will be losers forever

I find it amusing that Sun reporters won't do their job as "journalists" and call it for what it is: Trembly is a bad manager.

They try to shift blame to the players, but somehow they know that Trembley's departure is inevitable. How come? Such a good manager with such horrible fate?!

Something is wrong here. They went from defending MacPhail's decision to keep him, to surrendering to the idea that he will eventually be fired.

If Trembley didn't deserve to get fired, why hasn't he done what a manager is hired to do, which is win games?

And please, don't give me the "there is no talent on this team" BS. Yes, there is a lot of young talent on this team, that is being mismanaged by Trembley. There is enough talent on this team to not have such a horrible record. There is young talent on this team that is going backwards instead of forward, only because the coaching staff lead by Trembley does not know how to handle them.

Why don't you all critique is managing and stop being such "homers". Just come out and tell it as it is: Trembley is not a major league worthy manager. No we don't have the best lineup and pitching in the league. But this team is not as bad as 20 under 500. That's on Trembley.

1 - Harvey - you have too much time on your hands

2 - Keep DT this year - we'll need him if we want to break Mets loss record

3 - Please ban any blogger who suggests an ex-O would be the answer to DT. (Anyone who pushes Ripken should have their HS diploma recalled as well).

4 - How much is AM paying Markakis to hit 3 HR's and impersonate a chicken with its head cut off in RF?

5 - I apologize for all those horrible things I said about Wigginton last year (even if he does nothing the rest of the year).

120 LOSSES

I like Brandon's idea: Throw the bank at Pujols and Fielder. That will be an instant offensive rejuvenation.

Pujols' will need 7 years--196 million.

Fielder 4 years-76 million.

But guess what, it will be instant rejuvenation. And Pujols would probably jack about 50 homeruns with the fence in Camden Yards.

Brandon your thoughts are definitely on the right track.

Throw the money out there Peter Angelos.

(p.s.: this is a pipedream, I know. However it does sound good.)

120 LOSSES: How pathetic does that seem. Unbelievable.

If the Cincinnati Reds were really the first major league baseball team, who did they play?

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Obviously, an intrasquad game.

'.......DID THE BEST HE COULD IN A HORRIBLE SITUATION'....

Ok Pete.... I agree.

But let's break it down..........

'best he could' = Best any manager could have done with the worst group of major league players in all of baseball.

Again.... the worst group of baseball players in ALL of baseball.

'in a horrible situation' = AM puts the roster together. Not DT, not ownership..... just AM. This 'horrible situation' you speak of then, is ALL on AM?

How can that be argued?

It can't.....

Thanks Pete..... In your own way, you just completely threw AM under the bus....

where he should be.

"Pujols' will need 7 years--196 million."

Try 8- $250. Think he takes less than ARoid?

"Fielder 4 years-76 million"

How bout 5- $125. Think he takes less than Ryan Howard?

TODAYS FEARLESS PREDICTIONS---

1. Ubaldo Jimenez' arm falls off at about the same time Dave Trembley gets canned. Near or shortly after the AS Break.

2. Jose Bautista flunks a steroid test.

3. Harvey just blacked out and needs to know what just happened.

28 million per year is more then the 25 million ryan howard will be getting.

I am not sure Fielder with his body tone will last much longer then 4 years. He is not in the best physical shape and probably does not equate to what Pujols is really worth or Ryan Howard

A great dose of reality for all the naysayers in Jeff Z.'s article on the O's...

Dan F-

that is $25 per, where did you get $28?

someone will pay him that or more. compare his deal to what the Cards (stupidly) gave Holliday. Who is more worth it, Fielder or Holliday (who btw is pacing about 16hr 65rbi for all those who clamored for AM to sign him)? Fielder is in shape and healthy, he just has that body time. The dude doesn't even eat meat.

I'll say it again... this team is not THAT bad..... meaning not as bad as it's record indicates.

The lousy record is the direct fault of the manager, who preaches, but doesn't know how to practice fundamentals.

Millwood and Guthrie have pitched very well, and untill his latest three starts, so has Matusz.
With better run support, those three alone would have accounted for enough wins to have us at .500 right now.
And with a bit of fundamental baseball, that run support would have been there.

Unfortunately though, Trembley couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag.

One blogger complained of Moore's two errors.... well, who put him at 2B instead of Lugo ? THE MANAGER.
Who kept Jones leading off for so many games ? THE MANAGER.
Who batted Montanez at DH more than once ? THE MANAGER.
Who's inserted Wigginton, the clear choice for cleanup with his 13 homers and 30+ RBI and .300 mol batting avg. actually AT cleanup only a handful of times all season ? THE MANAGER.

I could go on and on.... and so could the rest of you.
Trembley is the biggest reason this team has such a poor record.

A good manager knows how to manufacture runs and take advantage of scoring opportunities and DOES IT!

As for Angelos being a "bad" owner, I see nothing now, nor have I ever seen anything in the past which proves that to be true.

Don't forget... Angelos was the owner the last two times the Orioles made the playoffs... and it was your beloved Davey Johnson who was out-managed in the playoffs, first by Joe Torre, and then by Mike Hargrove, both times.

Shamrock: My number of years was 7 not 8 for Pujols which makes it 28.

Maybe Prince's vegetarian diet is fine, but he may not be working out in the right ways...His dad pretty much had to retire due to weight problems. And yes it is possible he does like Ryan Howard and loses some of the weight, but when I was watching him against the Phillies a couple of weeks ago, he looked out of shape.

And his numbers are not leading his team. At this point he is around 4th best on his team.

Bear- a .440 winning percentage as an owner. Have you had any interaction with the man? Ever known somebody that worked in the organization?

You truly need a reality check. This is where GMs and managers come to end their careers.

You don't see how the organization has alienated the fan base?

I guess your excuses should be posted in the standings. This team in what the record states. I honestly don't know how you can state otherwise. Continue to believe what you want.

Bear,

I'm actually surprised at you......

I thought you knew baseball better than that.

Moore is AM's guy (you know why, right?). He brings him up to the big club and DT's not going to put him at second? Come on man. Be serious....

AM wants to see once and for all if Moore can play. DT had no fxuking choice, and you should know better.

And I'm tired of people saying 'he's pitched really well accept for his last few starts'. Guess what? His last few starts count. So does his almost 6 era. It's a major league stat, and it stinks.

The team can not score runs... they are pitiful. DT is suppose to help Jones become a major league hitter, help Markakis develop ANY power, help Wieters to not look lost at times, help Miggy gain back his prime?

You say you could go on and on..... So could I.

You are likely correct in saying that DT is not a good major league manager. Problem is...... we'll never know.

The pitching? Worst BAA in the AL. That's a real stat Bear. You can't spin it. You can't take away the start, you can't take away a few games, you can't take away the bullpen....... these are REAL numbers.

And all I hear is how good the pitching has been. 3/5's of the rotation (not including Tillman - yet) have era's north of 5. Bear... that stinks!

FIne... Millwood and Guthrie have done well...... But you CAN'T WIN when only 2/5's of your rotation has era's under 5.

Bear........ Let's talk First Base. Arguably the MOST important production position. The O's have one of the worst players in the game playing the position.

Let's go to the other corner Bear. Another very important production position. Last I checked Bear, our third baseman is batting 259, on pace for 12 hr's. That stinks!

Now let's go to another very important production position Bear - RF. Last I checked, good ole Nick is on pace for 9 hr's and 55 rbi's....

That's NINE home runs and FIFTY FIVE rbi's. Are you kidding me? To say that stinks would be an insult to the word STINK.

Want me to go on?

These guys are literally horrible... I mean horrible beyond belief.....

and their record is all on DT?

STOP IT!

Just STOP IT!

You're a smarter and better than this.

If DT was the BEST manager in baseball, let's say they win 7 more games (which is ridiculous - but what the hell).....

Guess what Bear? That would STILL STINK.

Ugh... Baltimore fans sure are interesting. I mean - wow!

Wayne May 31, 2010 10:29 PM

"Want me to go on? "

no

People are actually defending this lard team? this shit? these joke players? We know who's really defending them. We see you..

Y'all,

Not only has AM let us all down with his pathetic plan and acquisitions, he's let both our young hitters and pitchers down. Most young pitchers and hitters need support, the guy batting in front or behind them and the pitchers need to know the team can come back and score if they get behind. He in Baltimore, we have the furthest from this situation and why, Ole Bottom of the Barrell Andy and the Cheapscate PA!

I've said this before, but I really believe it. When the league decided they were placing the Nationals in Washington, PA got a deal from MLB based on the previous 10 years of attendance that should the O's not draw as well as the previous 10 years, the league, MLB would make up the difference.

I think the big time lawyer hated losing the case against the Nationals that he actually wants to hammer MLB for it. Realizing he is getting his MASN money (from the Nats too) and the luxery tax so from a $$$$ perspective he's sitting sweet.

But another concern is the Kool Aid too many of you have consumed. AM is not the savior and he has no plan. Its a big lie! Look at the hitting averages and power numbers of anyone at any level of our minor leagues? Look at our major league roster, Atkins, Isturis an old line drive hitting 3b, overhyped CF and RF and a developing catcher. Not to mention no DH, LF and more specifically NO 3-4-5 hitters on the major league roster.

Our starting pitching has improved a little, Millwood gone at the end of the year, Guthrie is up and down, Matusz is an up and comer, Bergy is a 5th starter and Hernandez should be in the pen.
So for 2011, we have a 3rd starters and 5th starter?

Our bullpen is shambles, no one that you can go to night in and night out to get the job done it's hit or miss.

Manager and staff: They all need to go as well. Probably at the end of the year, otherwise Ole Cheapskate Andy would have to pay two guys! And it really wouldn't change much with this team. I personally think it is the GM that needs to be let go NOW.

Get the new guy in here with his staff to examine the organization top to bottom and let him hire the new coach and staff!

The Revolution has begun, keep the pressure for change on the Warehouse and the Baltimore Sun!

I told you so!

The truth will set you free!

Wayne...
I made a particular statement and then asked the questions and gave the answers which backed that statement...

This team could be a .500 team RIGHT NOW if Trembley had played fundamental baseball all year instead of letting it lead the league in hitting into double-plays and having one of the worst averages with runners in scoring position.

There are plenty of teams with only two or three decent starting pitchers.
There are also plenty of teams with underachieving offensive production.

The thing is, when a good manager has a weak-hitting team, he doesn't sit back waiting for three-run homers while closing his eyes and letting his players hit into double-plays every time the leadoff man gets on base.

Markakis is off to a slower-than-normal start. So what ? He has nothing to prove.
Same for Tejada, who, by the way, never asked to bat cleanup. THE MANAGER put him there. And THE MANAGER has allowed him to lead the team in grounding into double-plays.

I agree that Atkins was a terrible investment..... but even you couldn't be absolutely certain just how terrible until he had been given a chance.
At least Trembley is playing him less and less...... but only the GM can release him.

Don't you think Wigginton, Weiters, Izturis, Lugo, Patterson, and even Jones have had a great deal of heart taken out of them by the brand of baseball they have been led to play ?

Professionalism ?
How does Weiters and Jones learn professionalism under these circumstances ? I think the whole team should be commended for even giving any effort at all.

Their so-called leader doesn't know how to manage this game and make the most out of the situation he's got.

HE is the one who has doomed this club to it's presently lousy record.

Get rid of HIM and it becomes a .500 ballclub.

Keep him and it will remain a .250 ballclub.

joefoss.....
I have given absolutely NO excuses for anything, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
What I said was that I have seen no proof whatsoever that Angelos is a "bad" owner.
Instead of finding and posting that proof, you have stated a winning percentage and accused me of making excuses.

If that's your idea of proof, then fine.

In reality, you have proven nothing... zero... nada.... and you won't..... because your statement has no basis.

CHRONIC LOSING is what alienates a fan base.
And CHRONIC LOSING is not always the fault of the owner.

Chumley (Trembley) needs to go, enough already! "Duh, gee Tennessee, he is left-handed...so...duh?!"

Since 1994, Angelos's first year as owner since he bought the team in August 1993, the Orioles have had 3 winning seasons out of 16 total seasons. And 2010 doesn't look so good as the 17th season.

That's worse than any other owner of the Orioles.

That's worse than any other team in the majors except the Pirates.

Even Robert Irsay was "only" 3-9 in Baltimore.

What is the soon-to-be 3-14 winning season record? Just a bad start?

Chronic losing is the fault of the owner even if that is your only measure of alienating fans. He is the one responsible for the people he hires.

And fires.

And vetoes along the way.

And he has anywhere from 156 to 162 fewer seats sold per year because of other policies he instituted since his stewardship. I was a two-seat, 81-game plan holder in 1988. It was a very bad year but it was still enjoyable to go to a game.

And I loved Camden Yards. Still do. Memorial Stadium contained great memories, but was a dump. Better than Fenway, but still a dump.

Losing didn't alienate me. Questioning his -- Angelos's -- desire to win was the final straw. But it began a lot sooner and on his watch.

He has alienated baseball people. Former Orioles whose name doesn't start with Brady or end with Anderson. Former employees of all ilks.

And the worst part is I think he genuinely wants to win. And be liked in this town. Now. And he has no clue what to do.

He tries to stay in the background -- either to not meddle or to keep the appearances of not meddling. He tries to have faith in a person he hired to run his baseball team -- if only because he wants the highly desirable attribute of stability. Probably same thing for the manager, too.

He is in a lose-lose situation with MacPhail and Trembley. Keep them and the team just keeps getting worse and worse. Fire them and it's another perceived here-we-go-again and we're admitting we are x-years away.

He hired those guys. We are x-years away with or without them. But it's all about the owner -- his perception of how he is perceived.

If it were about actual winning, he'd be pissed and say this is unacceptable. He'd bring in a fresh approach.

But he might then be compared to King George. Guess what.

Steinbrenner wasn't always liked or even respected. It took his banishment so baseball people could do their jobs before he learned what to do and what not to do. But he did learn. And he maintained his desire to win, and found less as being unacceptable. And he still didn't care how he was perceived.

Angelos needs to want to win baseball games more than needing to be stubborn that his way is the best way and was the best way all along. Being stubborn may work when litigating with asbestos and tobacco companies.

Being stubbornly flawed hoping for better results doesn't work in a bottom line business like baseball. That is Peter the Grate's approach. He is heading towards his 13th straight losing season. Yes. His. And it is indeed his fault.

And that is the very definition of a bad owner. Period.

In fact, I can't even think of an exception in his case. Not one. Not in 17 years of ownership.

Yes, the Orioles are this bad, starting with the owner, down to the trainers. There is no nice way to say "losers" but if the definition of the word ever fit better anywhere, it fits with the Orioles. Losers make decisions that don't work out and call it bad luck. A losing organization develops a culture that becomes self fulfilling. Angelos obviously hired the wrong GM who hired the wrong manager. Only the results count in the end, and those results for the last 13 years are those of losers all.

waspman

Check out Connie Mack's bio. He was just as bad as Angelos, of not worse in some ways. He had 13 straight losing seasons as well because if meddling.

bear,

I'm sorry, but what you're saying is an insult to anyone who understands even a little about the game.

Truly, anyone should stop reading after you say the team would be 500 without DT. You really have know idea about how managers affect major league clubs.

Weaver, Larusso, Torre combined wouldn't be 15 games within 500 with this team.

You say guys like Markakis have nothing to prove? Really bear? That's funny... Brooks Robinson said he had to prove himself every day.

Nick's production pace is so unbelievably bad, that he'd be batting 7th or 8th on any good team - if he'd be playing at all.

The players are having a disgusting year because AM didn't provide the young players with enough quality, proven vets in order to take the pressure off of them.

THAT'S basic baseball.

Instead, you claim DT LET'S them hit into double plays.

You have become absurd and you have proven, beyond a shadow of any doubt, that you do not know the game at all.

Too bad.... I thought you did, at least a little.

Waspman,

I agree with your assessment, but to a certain extent. I don't think Angelos is being stubborn. I think, he just doesn't give a crap about baseball. I don't think the man even knows how the game is played.

All he cares about is whether the BUSINESS is profitable or not. And all these years, regardless of the record, the business has been profitable. It's as plain and simple as that. Now that he got MASN, he can afford for the team to get worse and still maintain a happy profit margin.

It was never about baseball for Angelos. I bet the man doesn't even watch any games. Have you ever seen him at Camden Yards, watching "his" team? Has there been any sightings of his family at Camden Yards?

If you are an owner who is a fan of his team, wouldn't you make your presence felt/seen at your stadium?

Wayne,

Markakis' production is not as good because of the quality of the pitches he gets. He is a player whose talent is being mismanaged and gone to waste on a team with no protection in the lineup. There is nobody before and after him who can support him. And despite that, he is hitting for a 300 BA. That is remarkable if you ask me. If Markakis played for the Redsox or the Yankees, he would be an Al-Star every year, with a 300+ BA and and 25+ home runs. He has a rare ability to recognize the strike zone, that only good hitters do. He is a premier hitter in this league. Yes the numbers don't show it, but that's because he plays for the O's. You don't see him hit for power because he doesn't try to. Right now he's trying to spray the ball and hit for average. He understands that they have to get men on to score runs. He is a smart player, but he should have never resigned an extension with the O's in my opinion. Baltimore is where talents rotten.

Wow, I just realized something....
Since Macphail has been here for 28 years (dog years), it was actually he who was responsible for our last World Series Title in 1983...Boy, Andy is way more awesome than I thought before, he has won 3 World Series Rings!!...I say give him 14 more years minimum...It's all about 2023!

btw you guys should check out how some of the guys like Arietta (and even Patton) are coming along...pitching depth is truly the best in over 15 years...i guess AM didn't lie about everything...

Gil,

It's pretty sad that things are so bad that guys like Chris in Hawaii, ken, not brooks, etc, post so little now.

The team/organization is so bad, that it's turning people who you'd never think would bail, into being basically uninterested.

Instead, we hear from those who I 110% believe are associated with the team in some fashion. There's literally no other explanation.

This is what the O's have become.

I'll witness two of the three games while up in NY this week. There is so little interest in town, that this series may be the least attended of the year so far in NY. The Orioles have become so bad that fans in other cities don't even consider them a legitimate major league team.

The only true thing that is even interesting to ponder with this team is who AM will get for Millwood at the deadline. Isn't that pathetic?

It's not a stretch (at all) to think we may be witnessing the worst team in the history of modern baseball.

And there's absolutely no hope for next year.

Remember most apologist were saying 75 wins this year, beyond 500 next?

What do you think they'll say now? WIll they just hit 'repeat' (as in the last 3 years), or will they finally see what's been happening?

As a business man Gil, I've truly never seen the kind of incompetence I've seen in the Orioles.

It's become the stuff of legend....

Gil and Wayne,

Yes the owner is terrible, but this team is not as bad as you think. This is the team that was scoring 10+ runs on the Yankees and Redsox a couple of years ago. The only thing that changed is Huff and Mora aren't here. I find it hard to believe that they were the key to a good offense. The O's had a really good offense a couple of years ago. It was the pitching that was bad. Now the starting pitching has improved but the offense is terrible. I think the funk you see for the past couple of years is as a direct result of Dave Trembley and his staff. This team might not be the most talented in the league, but has enough talent to be at least 500. Mark my words: you will see this team drastically improve, immediately after Dave Trembley is fired.

smitty,

AM didn't bring in Arrieta. BUt the young players he did bring in are all underperforming (which is AM's MO).

Not only that, AM is helping to destroy the career's of players like Markakis. As meso correctly describes above, many of us begged for the organization to surround young players like him with protection.

AM didn't do it.

Now you see (first hand) the results.

Smitty, you and your different names are alone now. You must work for the organization in some capacity. Otherwise someone like you simply could not be explained.

You excuse everything. You must be that way at your own work and home. It's actually a very sad way to be, as excusing failure always equals continued failure.

The 28 dog years, etc, isn't funny smitty. It's just a sad person who has nothing left to say. A person who excuses his way through life.

If the O's in fact are paying you and your alter ego's, get another line of work.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Now go ahead... attack me if you'd like. I'll check back late tonight, after the game.

But no more excuses smitty. Gain some pride my man.

wayne....

Your assessment of my baseball knowledge based upon any old thing that happens to cross your mind means nothing to me.

You make statements in your own hard-to-find contexts about things people say in their own contexts, out of theirs.

Your efforts to be the judge and jury of this blog apparently entertain you, but have little significance to most.

Your posts are filled with personal opinions which you expect to pass off as facts.

Sorry...... they are opinions and nothing more..... and YOURS are no more valid than those of anyone else.

The thing is, you throw facts and stats around as though those facts and stats automatically prove your claims to be gospel.
You seem to have little concept of the logical relationship that must exist among facts and stats in order to provide proof.

Your comments about Markakis pretty much reveal your non-ability to recognize the subtleties of what makes a good and potentially great player.
And then, of course, you drop the name of Brooks Robinson in a lame attempt to further juxtapose contexts with me.
Very very sad, wayne with a small "w".

And your comments about Weaver, Torre, and LaRussa are nothing more than postured opinions designed to contradict mine..... as though, again, the assumption should be made by all that YOURS are worth so much moere.

Keep bloggin' wayne.
If it keeps you off the streets, then perhaps there is at least that much redemption in the things you say.

meso,

I have to run, but come on.... the team is that bad.

I agree that DT is likely not a good manager.... but we just don't know for sure.

Everyone says 'the pitching has not been that bad'. Yes it has!

They have the worse BAA against in the league. Stats matter. People always want to throw away the bad pitched games by guys like Matusz, Bergy, Hernandez, etc... but you can't. And the reason Millwood is 0-5 is because the team can't hit, largely for the reasons you described about (about Markakis).

That's not on DT.

Why was Weavers 2nd stint with the O's a failure? Why didn't his style work the second time around?

Because the players were not as good....

People like me and Gil begged for AM to surround Nick with proven quality vets. Who did we get? Miggy and Atkins?

And people around here talk about Miggy like he's been a hero. Well look at his projected numbers.

And these are our corners?

GIve the team a few more wins without DT... that's fine. But 500 ball?

Are you kidding?

Anyway, I 110% know.... not think, but know, the record of this team (with no light at the end of the tunnel) falls directly on PA and AM.

As Pete said yesterday.... all DT has done is the 'best he can in a horrible situation'.... or something like that.

HAHA a .500 team with a better manager??? Are you drunk. Have you seen our talent? McFailure has brought in who exactly to make this a better team in the future? Tejada, Millwood, will be gone next year. Who?? Not signing a good player because he is afraid of "blocking" one of "prospects" is what losers cling to. The Blazers did that in 1984 and passed on Jordan b/c they had Clyde Drexeler at his position, how did that work out? Hogwood really? Mike Leake has lead the Reds to a remarkable turnaround this year. The Nats, look what Mike Rizzo has done in a year. Please if you work for the Orioles let us know so at least we can forgive the kool aid! By the way the success or failure of any business in any industry starts at the top. When Toyota made faulty cars they didnt bring in the mechanics they brought in the OWNERS before congress to interrogate and hold responsible.

Excellent post Bear,

I understand your frustration... I really do.

I'll be at the game tonight, and when the team scores few runs and gives up more hits than any other team in the game, I'll be thinking about all the things that go into the game that you're referring to.

When I watch Jones swing at an outside slider, or Wieters hit a weak grounder. When I witness Atkins continue his run as one of the worst signings in O's history, and as I cringe when Hendrickson and Abers do their things.... I'll be thinking about the 'logical relationships' as pertaining to said failures on the field.

And as another loss is rung up by possibly the worst team in the modern game of major league baseball, I'll think of DT... and how they simply would have won the dang game if he wasn't managing.

You win!

I'm just an idiot walking the streets......

I'm being dead serious however, when I say 'good post'. You slapped me pretty good.

I'll be at the game tonight, wearing my O's hat in frustration. I used to hear jeers. Now, people just feel sorry for me.

We're all frustrated.

dimo,

If you've read my posts here, they are very critical, to say the least, of Peter Angelos and Andy MacPhail. I'm trying to be a realist here. Peter Angelos isn't going anywhere. Andy MacPhail isn't going anywhere either. I can't stand either one of them, but that's the reality.

Trembley is someone you can do something about. You can get rid of him and this team will improve immediately. I don't know how, but it will be better than it is. You can take that to the bank.

This team has talent that has been recognized by MLB experts. No they are not performing right now, but you've got a nucleus of talent that can be successful with the right manager. This is not to give MacPhail credit. This talent has been here regardless of MacPhail. MacPhail moves have been terrible, I agree. I think he should be fired. But here is the talent I'm talking about:

1. Markakis
2. Roberts
3. Jones (the book he still out, but we all saw the potential last year)
4. Weiters (can't argue with his defense, he needs to develop his hitting)
5. Matusz (potential to be a premier pitcher in this league)
6. Bergeson ( a capable nr 2)
7. Guthrie ( has turned his fate around)
8. Reimold ( injury setback)
9. Arrietta (still a prospect but a good one)
10. Tilman ( perhaps doesn't belong here but has the talent)

I'm as frustrated as everyone. I have blasted this team, MacPhail and Angelos, but when you start to say that there is no talent on this team ( I have said this as well out of frustration), you lose credibility.

There is only one reason this team is underperforming: Dave Trembley.

Yes, they need to bring a first and third baseman with power, but the nucleus of young players is there. And baseball people around the league know that this team is not as bad as the record shows talent wise. Tampa Bay was absolutely horrendous the year before their burst.

I'm not saying the O's will do the same, but I'm saying this team has talent as I've written above.

The key is how to get that talent to live up to its potential. The answer is: Get a capable manager and make a couple of personnel moves.

And finally, no I'm not working for the front office. If you've read my posts you would know better. The O's have a lot of work to do, such as revamping the scouting and farm system, spend money on free agents, make trades. But getting rid of an unproven idiot, loser of a manager like Dave Trembley, is a good start.

Anyone know why we never made a run at Tex a couple years ago? He would have helped, I think.

@Wayne: "It's not a stretch (at all) to think we may be witnessing the worst team in the history of modern baseball. "

When I first read that sentence, I thought you were talking about the 2010 Orioles. A bad team to be sure, but not historically bad.

But then I thought...maybe what Wayne is trying to say is that the Orioles, as constituted and evaluated since 1998, are one of the worst-performing baseball franchises over a period of evaluation spanning a decade plus.

And when viewed in that light, I would have to agree.

The Pirates are currently the owners of the longest steak of consecutive losing seasons -- I think they are at, what, 17?? -- but guess who's in second place?!!

All that's left to do is laugh, really. This isn't hell, but you can see it from here. :)

They need to change the slogan from "This is Birdland" to "This is for the birds".

This team makes me wish for the heady and exciting days when the Orioles were the center of steroid controversy!

This team is so bad, it makes me wish we had someone as talented as Marty Cordova in left field.

Anyone know why we never made a run at Vlad last offseason? He would have helped, I think.

............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Of course he would have helped. He's one of the top hitters in the league right now. But the last time I saw him up close, he could barely walk and looked totally done in his final year with the Angels.

Wayne,

In a way I feel sorry for Andy Macphail. Those were heady times when he took over, and the goodwill associated with his father's name has taken what seems like forever to finally wear off, but make no mistake about it, the shine is off that penny. Some of his early moves drew accolades from a few in the sports media but it is now apparent that he had no follow up, no portfolio, no fundamental strategy other than to trade a few veterens for prospects. That's apparently all he knows how to do. You won't find many in the national media lining up behind Andy anymore. Andy's father had vastly more baseball acumen than Andy and knew how to trade talent for talent and come out on the winning end. Unfortunately it's not always like father like son, and as Andy continues to flounder around looking for a theme the Orioles continue to descend into the bowels of baseball incompetence.

Some have said we have prosepcts. We did before he got here and they were as overrated then as many of those Andy has aquired. The Orioles are no closer to winning than when Andy got here in early 2007. Now in his 4th season as GM, this year's disastous performance is all Andy's and hopefully Angelos will be smart enough to stop the bleeding and fire Macphail before he makes things even worse. Andy is part of the problem, not part of the solution and his time is up. He is a dead man walking.

Meso,

You are right in we do have potentially talented players, but for the most part it is potential. I think Weiters will be a solid catcher for 10-15 years, i do not know if he will be even Jorge Posada, he might, but we dont know. I think Markakis is a very good player a quality 2 hitter who plays well definsively. I think Jones has regressed terribley this year and I can not tell if it is a prolonged slump or the league has figured him out and he will be nothing more then a poor mans Mike Cameron. I disagree on bergeson and matusz. I think bergeson is a five at best on a very good team and matusz a solid starter but not a number one at all. Reimold i think was over rated and the young pitchers who knows but I know none of them appear to be Steven Strasberg. I think trembley is terrible, I agree but I also think Mcphail has failed in bringing in talent both short and long term. Every team has basically the same plan, homegrown talent mixed in with solid FA's its not revolutionary.

Pete,

I almost forgot to congratulate you on winning the Apologist of Month for the month of May. Keep up the good work we are all very proud!!!!! :)

And I'm tired of people saying 'he's pitched really well accept for his last few starts'. Guess what? His last few starts count. So does his almost 6 era. It's a major league stat, and it stinks.
Wayne
------------------------

This from the same guy that said that Tillman really hasn't pitched that well in AAA if you take out his few good starts

Hey Dopey, don't you even remember the stuff you write?
It's funny just to follow the repetitive crock of garbage you post on here.I mean, I'd have to be as dopey as you to not call you on it.It's nearly impossible to read your stuff without laughing out loud...

You actually admitted to not being that smart. That you wore a bag on your head at a game. That you give a guy you despise your hard earned cash, potentially contributing dollares to what you consider a total mess. Good job!!

I nominated you for the 'Hoisted On My own Petard' Hall of Fame.
Invite us all to the induction. Can't wait to hear the speech.
Hint: make it short. It can't be that difficult to contradict yourself in 2 or fewer sentences. Not that I'm putting that past you, believe me.

Pete's reply: Of course he would have helped. He's one of the top hitters in the league right now. But the last time I saw him up close, he could barely walk and looked totally done in his final year with the Angels.

Thats why we have this thing called the DH in the American league, can you say Harold Baines with more power?????

Hell, what about Bobby Abreau, Godzilla, all these rejects from playoff teams would HAVE been improvements of ATKINS! I guess they hadn't reached the bottom of barrell price rack yet (where AM shops)!

So many of the available players even in down years for the free agent market would have helped this team. O-Dog could have helped even without BRobs injury, it just comes down to being cheap! If this team wanted to win they would act like it! Remember we signed Javy, Raffy and Tejada in one off-season and who did we follow that up with the next year? No one! To get good players, good managers, coaches and scouts, a good GM, the organization has to show a committment over an extended period of time! This organization has only been able to demonstrate how cheap they are and that they have no PRIDE!

I told you so!

The truth will set you free!

No, I'd give a clear edge to Mack over Angelos.

First, Mack was a baseball man -- a player and a manager. He is still the only manager in history to have won consecutive WS twice on separate occasions.

As an owner, Mack did finish last 17 times. However, almost all of that was due to finances -- not exactly Angelos's problem.

The A's were in Philadelphia at the time. For a large amount of time Ben Shibe was actually the principal owner by owning 50% of the team. He also just happened to own the cross-toen Phillies.

Mack got into more financial problems when attendance dropped thanks in part to the Federal League which also sparked rising player salaries. The Federal League only lasted a couple of years but what it caused for the A's was seven years of misery as star players had to be sold.

Mack would eventually build another championship team but his growing financial woes associated with The Great Depression caused him to have another fire sale of stars.

I would actually compare the Philly A's more to the modern Marlins team, and I would probably have had a similar measure of sympathy for them as I do for the Miami ownership.

There are no such financial woes for Angelos -- even with attendance bottoming out.

Pete -

RE: Pete's reply: Of course he would have helped. He's one of the top hitters in the league right now. But the last time I saw him up close, he could barely walk and looked totally done in his final year with the Angels.

SO, what was Atkins doing?

Wow,

U can eat pasta till it comes out of your nose without eatimg meat, I am sham

Plenty of high fat desserts are lacking in meat too

Think you'll be thin on a pasta & dessert diet ? LMAO

Fielder eats pizzas 3 at a time, but there's no meat in it!!!

Veggie Lovers only with extra cheese. Only 3000 cals

Fielder isnt really fat because he eats desserts instead of chicken ?

DOesnt matter, andy maccheap will not pay what it costs to bring him in, he'll have to DOUBLE the previous contract he ever gave it

Besides, aren't the warehousers always saying how we need to get closer to contention b4 spending ?

Although, I have no idea how you are supposed to get close to contention without any good players ? Duh!

Keep pretending AM will sign Fieders Shammy

U guys need a new angle to stifle the restless natives

It's Ok Wayne if you don't like my humor...
It's just too easy though...
Now you should read Gil's last post where he says that AM got here in "early 07"....?
Have you ever heard someone refer to June as early in the year?..lol
He's trying desperately to say that AM is in his 4th year......why? i don't really know you'd have to ask him why he's obsessed with being wrong...He's just trying to say AM has had long enough I supposeand he thinks by making it 4 instead of three it carries more weight...

Have fun giving your money away to someone you despise and helping to pay AM's salary...