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May 28, 2010

Orioles: Fifty ways to leave a loser

It is beginning to transcend any rational understanding. The Orioles appeared to have last night's game in hand, but a ball caroms off the leg of reliever Mark Hendrickson, another takes a strange kangaroo hop that handcuffs Cesar Izturis and manager Dave Trembley is cursing the fates again during his postgame news conference.

"You take a three-run lead into the eighth and a lot of things don't go your way,'' Trembley said.

So, just what was going through the manager's mind as another game came unraveled in frustrating fashion?

"You certainly think you've seen a little bit of everything,'' he said.

He probably has. The Orioles opened 2010 with blown saves in the season opener and home opener and have gone on to allow the tying or go-ahead run in the eighth or ninth inning 12 times. Literally, no lead has been safe.

Once again, the manager made a tough decision on his starting pitcher and it backfired. Brad Bergesen had recovered from some early trouble to cruise through the middle innings. He had retired 14 straight batters before giving up a seeing-eye bouncer through the left side to lead off the eighth and a second, more solid hit to bring the manager to the mound.

Bergesen was at 93 pitches at that point, but Trembley said it was not about the pitch count.

"You certainly don't want to put him in a situation where he's going to lose the game,'' Trembley said.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. The Orioles are way past worrying about who gets the wins and losses. If Bergesen had the best chance of retiring the next batter, he should have still been in there. The fewer relievers you have to use, with a series ahead against the highest-scoring team in baseball, the better.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 6:00 AM | | Comments (99)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

"you certainly don't want to put him in a position where he's going to lose that game"

how many times has he used that line this season? and if the pitchers are so concerned about a loss being put on their record then surely a no-decision won't leave them feeling any better. I agree 100% that bergesen should have been left in. In that situation you need a groundball and brad gives you that chance, not the next two bullpen pitchers who are both fly ball pitchers.

Life long Orioles fan. It's getting hard to give a sh!t about them, though.

I'm not one of those "FIRE TREMBLEY RIGHT NOW!!11" kind of guys, but it's decisions like the ones last night that make me think Trembley just isn't the guy for the job. After all, this isn't the first time his approach to pitching has been VERY questionable. And, his comments after wards indicating he was more interested in the situation than the actual numbers were even worse. I'm speaking of his replacement of Berken with Hendrickson.

There was a time we had "Oriole Magic" and we never felt like we were out of a game. We would come back from 2,3, and 4 run deficits to win games.

What is the opposite of Oriole magic?

Bad decision pulling Bergesen. How will these young guys ever learn to be winners if you always take them out of tough situations. And talk about the lack of confidence from the manager: "I don't want them to be in a position to lose the game" or put another way, "I don't have any confidence in you to get out of this situation." He should have left Berg in win or lose for 9 innings. Build some character.

This is Turdland!

Last night I was furious watching that bunch of meat balls blow another game. Today I'm just kind of numb. This whole season has become beyond ridiculous. I don't know how the two or three legitimate players on this team can bear to crawl into their uniforms day after day to play.My 13yr old son and I were looking forward to heading to a few games this year when his season was over. He told me last night he'd like to go see the Phillies some time. The Orioles have absolutely sucked since the year he was born. Maybe instead of worrying about someone being in position to lose a game, DT should worry about winning a game. I'm about done with this nonsense.

I'm betting Bergesen -- a competitive professional athlete -- would have pitched to that batter in a heartbeat.

These players are not the most talented group in the American League. But they are better than the record and they are not playing for Trembley.

The need to fire this guy is plain as day to me. You need to see if another manager - perhaps a fire-spitting type can get these guys to pay attention on every play and play the games to win. Trembley clearly is not getting this response.

With the poor roster, the subpar performances, and the injuries, no manager could be above .500 with this team. But Trembley's strategic blunders cost at least 10 extra losses per year.
When Berken came in, I was pleased that DT had finally noticed his ERA of 1.50. But why take him out after retiring his only batter, to bring a pitcher whose ERA was about 5? And after 3 hits off Hendrickson, so that the tying and go-ahead runs were in scoring position, why not use your only remaining effective reliever (Ohman) for a 4-out save? No, that requires too much flexibility--bring in the guy who, last time he pitched, lost the game with a HR on his 4th pitch.

It's hard to bash Trembley, he comes across as a very likable guy, but how many games are we going to lose due to his incompetence? I'd say at least 110 times at this rate...
I've heard rumors that Andy MacPhail (sp?) has final say in the lineup before each game. Anyone know if there's any truth to that? Is Trembley a puppet down there? Whether he is or isn't, it's time for some changes.
I'll start my campaign for a new manager right here: HIRE BOBBY VALENTINE!! (If he'll have us [see Joe Girardi]).

Trembley cannot be fired since that would mean that McPhail has made another mistake by bringing him back this year which must be explained to Angelos (something to be avoided at all cost). Trembley/Angelos/McPhail what a bunch of losers, they deserve each other. Angelos can still straighten out the mess if he gets a real GM and manager and continues to stay out of the operation. How much of a chance is there of this happening?

When is Trembley going to give one of his "young guns" a chance to get out of a late inning jam ? How will they learn if he keeps on yanking them ? The " don't want him to get the loss" line is getting old and in the long run is negative. I've been holding out but, I think it's time for Trembley to go. We need someone with a much more positive attitude at the helm.


It's just a fact of baseball life. Good teams find a way to win, and bad teams find a way to lose. After watching last night's latest debacle, does anyone have any doubt which category the WO's fall into?

That line is a joke - Bergy is a professional athlete who gets paid to win games. What's the worse outcome? He gets the loss and moves on? He has shown he can handle some adversity and come back so why is Trembley so worred about Bergy's feelings? It seems like our manager's mindset is to play to not lose. A little Herm Edwards here, "you play to win the game!" You can't tell me that Berken or Hendrickson had better stuff than Bergy in the 8th, you just can't. We all know the bullpen is horrible and Trembley doesn't have much to work with but it seems like Trembley would rather have the bullpen take the loss and not the starters. I don't get that line of thinking.

Each day a new excuse, some replay of an old an excuse, but positively no forward progress. I know the byword was patience, but after more than a decade of "patience," it's simply worn thin. Throughout the Trembley era and before, there's been a clear pattern of not handling pitchers well. How does that play out in confidence of young pitchers? Too many times we read about how it's not all bad - yet, the O's are in last place. Fortunately, they can't get any lower. Then I look at Norfolk and see all position players struggling, and not much better down the line. This is a joke!!!!

What would have been refreshing to see is Trembley jogging to the mound, and then tell Berken "OK, you're my guy. Give me you're best right now and shut them down." A simple show of confidence to a team that needs some. It would not be a bad move considering Berken's success this year. He could do the same thing with Bergeson.

Yes, it's easy to second guess. But every time DT makes a move, it seems to be the wrong one.

Please, please, please --- can we find someone new to lead this team and help create a better chance of winning?

Jeff:
It should now be referred to "Oriole Tragic." As a fan since 1966 and a former longtime season ticketholder, I grieve for all of the Oriole greats who contributed to the Oriole franchise being one of the most successful and respected in baseball. The present crew, from the owner down to the 40th man on the roster could not damage the franchise any more than if they were intentionally doing so...maybe they are.


You don't play to 'not lose' YOU PLAY TO WIN. How much longer can this moron hold on to his job? Whats the magic number? 20 games under .500? 25?

He's making the team worse

And let's avoid the comments today about Andy MacPhail and the plan - last night is on the manager, plain and simple, and we're a bit tired of seeing his inability to manage a ballclub.

THE ORIOLES CAN WIN....
One front office hire would change the organization around in 2 years. His name is:
Gerry Hunsicker. If Hunsicker were to replace McPhail, the Orioles would see results soon!

Dave is still playing this season too "gently", as if he's afraid of upsetting some ethereal situation on the team.

Crap --- play these pitchers until they completely give out. How will we ever know how tough they are unless they go until they can't go no more?

Everything for the past 10 years has been done so that "next year" will be better. Stop it. Stop it. You have lost the fans, the team is a laughing stock to everyone, and it's time to pull out all the stops.

I agree with everything people have said about him pulling Bergesen. At some point, you need to show your young players you have confidence in them. People want to play for a coach they feel believes in them.

I may be even more fired up about the Orioes 9th ninning though which no one is talking about. HOW MANY TIMES is Adam Jones going to swing at cutters and sliders on the outside corner on the 1st pitch of an at bat???????? It's maddening. In a situation like that, he shouldn't swing at anything that's not belt high on the inside half that he can hit 500 ft!!!!! When is he going to get that?

A couple more losses in the next four days and the Orioles could well have the ignominious distinction of being 20 games out of first place by Memorial day. As Brooks Robinson would say, "That's pretty hard to do."

That benchmark should officially begin the last days of Andy Macphail as Orioles GM. It isn't about starting over, it's about putting the team and the organization in the hands of a person who is committed to winning, and not just the open ended, "rebuilding' excercise that clearly has not been outcome based, but theory based.

The next GM must come in with clearly stated goals and metrics on how he plans to make the Major League team competitive in the shorter term. As we see now, It was a mistake by Angelos not to have Macphail articulate quantitative goals but only loosly described qualitative anecdotes. Any poster who has been a manager and executive knows that if there are no tangible units of measurement for a process, it is a recipe for disaster, and we have just seen a prime example in the failed tenure of Andy Macphail.

Well lets see. He pulls a pitcher who lefties hit at a .211 pace to bring in a pitcher that lefties hit at a .333 pace when two lefties are due up. Then he explains berkin is a fly ball pitcher and is afraid of a home run. Well in texas when all texas needed to win the game was a sac fly, who did he bring in BIRKEN!!!! The same fly ball pitcher he was "afraid" to use last night. He needs to go and have a restraining order put on him where he isnt allowed within 50 miles of Camden Yards ever. Take McFail with him who hired him and keeps him employed. Of course if McFail fired him then he is next on the hot seat and he doesnt want that. Also, in a real baseball hotbed ie St. Louis, New York even Texas columnists would be calling for Trembleys head today but appearantly not here in Bmore.........

I would guess that having Trembley as manager, versus a merely average MLB manager, results in a .100 lower winning percentage. Half from in-game decision-making, and half from the preparation and management outside of game-day. As others pointed out, this wouldn't make the Os pennant contenders, but I have to think that having a record in the neighborhood of .500 would mean a dramatically different tone around the Os right now.

The quote about not wanting to put a professional baseball player "in a position to lose" says everything about Trembley's mindset. He's thinking about the loss while the Os are still ahead. Other managers would describe things in terms of putting their players and teams in a position to win, or in not wanting to take the ball out of their starter's hand with the game on the line. Trembley seems to have this fatalistic view that no matter what he does the team is going to lose, which certainly has been correct more times than not.

Finally, if Trembley "curses the fates" as much as Peter Schmuck suggests he should, he is definitely not up to being a manager. The fact is that he does have power over this team's performance, and it's a loser's mentality (not some cool California zen outlook) to blame luck for every bad outcome, even if the unexpected may have contributed. The moment you start believing you don't have power over the situation, that everything is out of your hands, is the moment you should be shown the door.

Winners take the good graciously and acknowledge how much fortune and the contributions of others played a part in their success, while taking personal responsibility for the bad and always reflecting on how they can improve. Losers blame the bad on others and luck, while accepting credit for the good that happens.

Peter - I understand your stance on Trembley. I recognize that firing him without a clear replacement would just eman that we would have to hire from within again (which will not work, just as it did not work with Perlozzo or Trembley himself). But at some point, don't you worry at all that our young players will take several steps backwards this year due to the fact that Trembley clearly cannot get enough out of his players to win? It's gotta kill these players' confidence (what little is left at this point) that on the rare occasion they have a chance to win a game, their manager makes one decision after another that loses games. I'm sorry, Dave Trembley may be a nice guy, but it is clear that he can never be more than a bench coach. I've gotta think that the players can sense that at this point.

"HOW MANY TIMES is Adam Jones going to swing at cutters and sliders on the outside corner on the 1st pitch of an at bat???????? "

Like little league. Take pitches until he throws you a strike. Think he saw one strike in t

O's need to hire Lou Brown, former Toledo Mudhens, Cleaveland Indians and Tire World Manager.

"Jones, everytime you swing a a low and outside breaking ball, you owe me 50 push-ups"

That'll learn him. TAKE A PITCH?!?!?!

Take out Bergeson and put in Hendrickson and Meredith. Great job Dave. What ever happened to complete games? Call me crazy, but I thought the objective was to WIN games, not to prevent from losing them. But why should we be surprised. Only the Orioles would have a promotion for a player sent to the minor leagues. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.


I can't believe you're still defending Dave Trembley. Removing Bergesen is one thing, but removing Berken after he gets his only batter out is ridiculous. Trembley's match-up game never works for him and it will burn out the bullpen in the long run (which hopefully will not include Trembley).

Will someone please tell me what qualities Dave Trembley brings to his job as manager? He may have "class" and character, but so did Mother Theresa, and no one asked her to manage a major league baseball team.

"You certainly don't want to put him in a situation where he's going to lose the game,'' Trembley said.

He went to say, "I'd rather mis-use the bullpen so that they'll lose the game instead."

Trembley is a dick!

A manager might lose you 3-5 games a season with his decisions. But he's probably lost 15-20. Fiddling with the lineup, not benching guys who are struggling, messing with the bullpen too much, pitch counting the starter. All these are things he does on the daily basis that will lose you the game.

He is an effing moron. MacFail is a bigger idiot for sticking with this fat bastard. Peter Angelos is a bigger dick for letting MacFail standby and watch this misery without taking the slightest action.

SHAME!

Yep...Trembley manages to "not lose" and that's my problem with him.

Time to go Dave, you are not a MLB manager.

Say it with me folks...DAVEY DAVEY DAVEY !!!

A goo0d team would not be vulnerable to losing games becuase of seeing eye base hits, balls caroming off of legs, and kangaroo hops. A good team would convert bases loaded possibilities and score some runs.

This is not a good team.

This team is to baseball what BP is to the environment.


Last night, the loss should fall squarely on the shoulders of Dave Trembley and Andy McPhail. First of all, Dave needs to learn how to effectively manage a bullpen and create situations in which his team can be successful. Also, McPhail should be under fire for his terrible moves in aquiring the likes of Cla Meredith and considering Mark Hendrickson as a professional baseball player. I will never understand how this organization continues to accept mediocre play from individuals that are not fit to continue playing any level of professional baseball.

So funny,

Reading all the hate towards DT.

What's so funny about that?

It's EXACTLY the way AM and PA want it to go - for now.

As long as DT is managing this beyond repair, pathetic major league baseball team, he will take 99% of the heat.

You people really don't see that?

If you're AM, and you fire DT..... then what? Where will ALL the eyes go then?

AM knows that once he lets go of DT, the clock begins on him.

Come on all.... It's so unbelievably obvious.

You really, sincerely believe that any of this is DT's fault? Ok, ok, ok...... perhaps he's lost a couple games due to his handling of the pitchers. But you can say that about every manager......and they do say that about every manager.

The point is....... the way most of you are acting is playing right into AM's hands..... and what's so funny is.... none of you realize it.

Oh sure, AM wishes the team was better. But they're NOT.... They absolutely stink! And they stink because of him.

Bottom line?

He'll NEVER fire DT! He can't..........

So funny!


Can Trembley be sent down to Norfolk?

Wayne, I cannot agree more with your comments regarding Andy McFAIL. Seriously, Andy is in charge of all player personnel. The man has had his time to make impacts on the organization and what does he do......sign Garrett Atkins, Julio Lugo, Cesar Izturis, Mark Hendrickson, Cla Meredith, Koji Uehara, Mike Gonzalez. Come on now Andy, everybody knows you want the Commish. job, might as well quit now and get in line to take it.

Pete,
good column. The point on Bergeson is really well taken. Trembley's an idiot. Let's not forget he put Berken in there and yanked him after he got the out. He then went to Mark Hendrickson, a long reliever, and put him into a situational (left v. left) spot. Isn't Hendrickson having trouble getting lefties out this year? So we pull one hot hand (Bergie) so he doesn't lose, pull another hot hand (Berken) so he doesn't pitch and then brings in the goon squad so we don't win.


It's tough enough having an injuried bullpen that you really can't count on, but then we pull out a good starting pitcher and a decent middle reliever and hand it over to a bunch of unknowns. Also, did we all see those bases loaded opportunities? Doesn't Adam Jones know how to find pitches in the strike zone? Atkins at least is improving. He's keeping his bat on his shoulder. Classic additon by subtraction.

This is a bad, bad team, with bad, bad leadership.


Pete: i do think any of you expo facto mangers know what the hell you are talking about! If DT allows Bergesen or Berken to stay in the game and one gives up the winning run, you then would say "he should went to the bull pen. Fact: We do not have in tact bull pen. I am sure no other team in baseball wants our bullpen or anyone on it. If we had a starting rotation we would not see of these AAA pitchers masqueradingc as major league pitchers toeing the rubber. How about all the depth AM gave us with the big bats to get hits in the clutch. Let's count the talented bats give up Huff and sign Akins sign a aging Miggie,and then we bring up Ryan what ever his name was, and Lou Montenez and to add insult to injury we resign Cory Patterson who now is playing back to his talent level, zero. ,

The truth, this teams is so bad good AAA teams could win on a consistent basis against it. A hall of fame manager can't manage without personnel with talent. This team does not have major league talent. This team belongs in one of those independent leagues for over the hill baseball players!.

Until this organization is able to recognize talented pitchers and position players, this is a losing cause. Look at other teams finding a developing talent. You can develop all the players in the world and if they lack Major League talent forget it.

The inability to recognized major league talent has plagued this team for at least 15 years. Without a complete change of scouts or evaluators, we can forget about winning!! We must look at other teams ( not the Cubs) to hire good talent evaluators. AM is not one of those.

I know DT can manage talent because at the AA level he had managed at least two championship teams. He had a comparable talent level and won with it, Is that NOT what managers do?Great managers can not compensate for lack of talent. This organization proved that with the second coming of the Earl., Proven managers like Hargove and others could not do it.

All had one thing in common and that is NO MAJOR LEAGUE TALENT TO MANAGE!!,

As a season ticket holder and a life long O's fan it is getting harder and harder to stand by this organization that fails to recognize that it's manager is a flake.

Yes it is not his fault the players don't pitch or hit but it is his fault for not figuring out what player combination's are going to work or whether or not to leave a pitcher in.

Trembley sucks. Fire the guy and let's start over again!!!!


wayne,

Many of us are well aware of AM's shortcomings, but one of them was hiring Dave Trembley as manager. Sure, signing Garrett Atkins, Mike Gonzalez, et al. was bone-headed, but Dave Trembley's bullpen decisions are no less moronic.

It's puzzling how much of a free pass you give DT given how critical you've been of others.

As far as AM goes, his Plan makes no sense if he lets this team continue down its disastrous path. How do you attract QUALITY free agents to a team that will have trouble winning 50 games?

All a veteran from another team has to do is consider the fate of Kevin Millwood. Here's a guy who's been a reliable starter, more or less, and a staff leader of sorts. His reward for his good efforts? ZERO wins.

Yeah, FA's will be dying to come to this team. Good luck "buying the bats", Andy. Did I mention they are no bats to be found in Norfolk?

I'm not thrilled about how The Plan has been playing out, but I doubt that Peter Angelos is going to hire any other "Director of Baseball Operations" who will be any better, so I'm willing to see The Plan continue, at least through the next off-season. Ultimately, it gets down to Peter Angelos, and he's not about to hire anyone who might ruffle his feathers (Pat Gillick, Frank Wren).

Unfortunately, there aren't many qualifications for owners of sports teams other than having a lot of money. Peter Angelos, like Robert Irsay, met that "qualification".

Wayne,

So what do you think Macphail will try to get for Tejada, Millwood and maybe Scott by the trading deadline?{ Forget Atkins, Andy couldn't trade him for three bats and a jockstrap to be named later} . Of course that's his only MO and if Andy somehow is still here here, the local press will be singing Hosannas about the latest handful of "prospects" that he acquires. I'm painfully inclined to now go along with you that there is no one in the local media who is prepared to flat out state the obvious...that Macphail has actually set the franchise back and needs to be fired. {And Pete, I'm not singling you out or trying to get you to say what I want you to. I would not want to be a local journalist covering the Orioles right now. My condolences}

The awful results Macphail has achieved on the field cannot be argued and have now become an unshakeable fact of ineptitude. I don't know how Macphail can possibly hold on when in his fourth season the Orioles are eliminated by Memorial day for all inents and purposes.

Contact the Orioles and demand change at the GM position now.

Each pitching change was worse than the previous. But what was more maddening was the post game Trembley. He talks down to the press corps like they are third graders. And they accept his inane babble like he's JC himself. No follow up questions.

Trembley said he couldn't leave Bergy in to get the loss. I get that. But wouldn't that allow him to have one more baserunner before getting yanked? He hadn't walked anyone or given up any loud hits. He's your best chance for a ground ball.

Trembley goes to Berken, and then yanks him after one pitch. He says, "you have to go lefty lefty there" . Why, Dave? so you just ignore the stats of the individuals involved???? And, if you have to match up, why not Ohman?? Or is he so ordained to be the closer now that you can't upset the delicate balance within your feeble brain??

Trembley goes to Hendrickson, who gives up more baserunners, albeit somewhat flukily, so he goes with Meredith. say what?? This guy just grooves his flutter balls. Should be mop up only at this point. What about Frank Mata or Dave Hernandez, both of whom have impressive arms? Oh, i forgot - they've never done that before so Dave wouldn't want to put them in that situation.

I think Trembley's most difficult part of the day is the post game press conference. Perhaps the press corps feel the same way and just feel sorry for the guy. Otherwise you'd think they would follow up his contradicting explanations with more questions.

Former 81 game season ticket holder here. First time in my life I have not gone to a game prior to Memorial Day, and honestly, I cannot see any reason to want to go to any games this year. I have stopped watching.

Makes new batch of Kool-Aid. Its going to be a very long season.

Peter, will Baltimore lose the Os? They seem to have lost Baltimore. I am an avid fan,and recall the glory days. I went to game 1 of the 69 Series, the only one we won. At least my local minor league team is good, even if they ARE a Red Sox affiliate, I still like them. Here's why:
http://timofowler.wordpress.com/2010/05/24/why-i-love-minor-league-baseball/

I understand the manager's motives but having seen the bullpen this I would remove the starter only at peril of death.

Why do I keep thinking Dave will play the lead role in Dead Man Walking II?
McPhail has assembled a bunch of AA ball players & Trembley has been told go make it work. Not going to happen. On the other hand, Trembley does make some moves that make you wonder but if he let Bergy in there after his visit & he then served up a home run everyone would be all over that lack of move.
Let's face it, whatever he does with this talented bunch...he's dead.
I can actually say this with all sincerity, Andy McPhail has made this team worse in his 3+ years. We are weaker now at every position than when he assumed his job. The Nationals are surpassing us in the same time period at every level of the game.
How the hell can McPhail make the recent comment that no trades or moves will happen any time soon? Are you ok with this crap you've assembled? Something is very wrong & the smell from the warehouse is getting worse.
Throw us a bone Andy...tell us it is magic & all will be fine. We're desperate & obviously we believe anything because we've hung in there with the Angelos Gang of Thugs this long. Tell us the magic AA player is on the way & our # 1 draft pick will be in Baltimore by the 4th. of July & 5 guys in AAA are all hitting close to .400 & you just can't keep them hidden any longer. Give us something Andy...anything but this mess.

I'm not one who is defending DT in any way, but i bet you 30 of 32 managers would have taken their starting pitcher out in that same exact situation. I was at the game and had field level tickets and I said to myself they should take him out. That's what you do when your pitcher gives up back to back hits in the 8th.

I will also bet that if DT left Bergesen in the game and he blew the lead; everyone would be complaining saying he should have pulled him after the first two got hits.

DT is in a lose lose situation and no matter what move he makes people are going to say he should have done the opposite.

Orioles TRAGIC.

Andy MacPhail is ultimately to blame for this mess. If you are sick of his inaction and sick of the losing, I urge you to joine the Facebook group "A Call for the Resignation of Andy MacPhail" and sign this petition below and spread the word to others that it exists:

http://www.petitiononline.com/AMRsgn10/petition.html

Together we can send a message that it's time for Andy's tenure and the losing in Baltimore to come to an end.

This team is on a pace to lose 111 games and since they will pack it in even worse in August and September, the '62 Mets modern record of 120 losses is in site. Bottom line is the organization is in shambles, the owner could care less about winning and worse of all, an entire generation of kids are growing up with this mess. In many ways, this organization may never recover to what it was. It is hard enough to compete with the way the money is structured let alone compete when an organization is run as poorly as this is. Trembley is just a pimple compared to the rest of the problems. Until Angelos sells the team, it is what it is. A pimple on the Baltimore Sports scene. Go Ravens, Go Terps, Go TSU. The hell with the Orioles!!!!

I haven't been a strong Trembley-basher up to this point, but I hang this loss on him. His bullpen management is terrible. Count me in with those who think he should be fired. I'm done with him.

OK, here's the thing. if Earl Weaver were managing this team, after Bergensen didn't get the third strike call, he would have walked out to the mound and WAITED for the umpire to approach the mound. then, he would have unloaded on him, got tossed and lit a fire under his pitcher because he backed him up. he would have left his starter in and there would have been a possitive result. Dave Trembley has absolutely no business managing a major league baseball team.

OK, here's the thing. if Earl Weaver were managing this team, after Bergensen didn't get the third strike call, he would have walked out to the mound and WAITED for the umpire to approach the mound. then, he would have unloaded on him, got tossed and lit a fire under his pitcher because he backed him up. he would have left his starter in and there would have been a possitive result. Dave Trembley has absolutely no business managing a major league baseball team.

OK, here's the thing. if Earl Weaver were managing this team, after Bergensen didn't get the third strike call, he would have walked out to the mound and WAITED for the umpire to approach the mound. then, he would have unloaded on him, got tossed and lit a fire under his pitcher because he backed him up. he would have left his starter in and there would have been a positive result. Dave Trembley has absolutely no business managing a major league baseball team.

BIZ -

Thank you. So completely right.

wayne -

100% correct. Andy can't fire DT.

Pete -

Any predictions on when the O's will be a .500 team again? 2013, 2014, 2222?

50? try more like 100 (losses this year)

One bad decision after another. Hindsight is 20/20 but I also said it at the time

1. Leave Bergensen in for at least one more batter. Even if the guy hits it out, your tied with the bases empty.
2. Once you bring in Berken, leave him in until he stops getting people out
3. Once you bring in Hendrickson, leave him in until someone actually hits a ball hard. He gave up a bloop to left and 2 ground balls that could've been outs.

This madness of using 4 or 5 pitchers every game has to stop.

All you goes saying it's trembley fault are completely full of it. IF trembley leaves him in and Bergesen loses the game you would be the same ones complaining that Trembley left him in too long and that he should have taken him out to build his confidence.

If your starter get's you to the 8th, the bullpen should be able to finish the job.

To:PSUorioles

Yes - 30 of 32 would have made the change because 30 of 32 knew they had better, fresher alternative. We're one of the 2 of 32 where you shouldn't because we didn't. DT just pulls out his Tony LaRussa handbook every time. I recall him pulling a guy in late innings who gives up a bloop hit (resulting in a bullpen loss) yet leaving in a guy who gets 2 outs even though they are hitting rockets. I used to think an interim manager was a waste of time but actually think we could avoid a few losses the rest of the way if they tell whoever it may be to forget the "percentage" moves and adapt to the available talent.

I like Trembley. I want him to succeed and I hate the manager carousel talk that circulates every year. I find it boring and the de facto topic uncreative reporters default to during slow news cycles.

...but you have to wonder how much longer we can stay with him? Could we actually stay with him all season, and get the same results all year long? Is that a possibility? If you conclude that it's not, then you have to think about a specific date to improve by, and degree of improvement needed, to save his job.

Late June? Late July?

Screw you all!

Your not hurting my feelings anymore!

I am fully aware that a new manager isn't going to make this team an instant contender. I am also aware that finding a manager with ML experience who would want to come here isn't going to be easy, but this destruction of the bullpen has got to stop. Trembley seems determined to use every arm in the pen in every game regardless of the situation. The result is what we've seen the last few years which is a pen that is completely blown out by the AS break because every one of them is warming up and throwing a few pitches in every game.
The young players who were supposed to be the future of the club are all developing poorly under a manager who's strength was supposed to be player development. When does it stop? How much worse does it have to get? As for wanting a new manager = letting McPhail off the hook I call BS. Nobody is forgetting who decided to renew Trembley's contract after last seasons disaster. That is as bad a decision as some of the player moves.
I reject the common wisdom that a manager makes so little difference on a team. Last night was just one of far too many examples when a loss can be pinned directly on Trembley. As for AM, my patience is not endless either, and firing Trembley would be first step to convincing me that he has some clue what to do.

"All you goes saying it's trembley fault are completely full of it. IF trembley leaves him in and Bergesen loses the game you would be the same ones complaining that Trembley left him in too long and that he should have taken him out to build his confidence."

exactamundo... Idiot Baltimore fans to a T!

With apologies to Paul Simon ...

"A lot of things don't go your way,", said Trembley
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to win 83
There must be fifty ways to leave a loser

The owner said it's really not my habit to intrude
The GM sends videos that are easily lost or misconstrued
The manager repeats himself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to leave a loser
Fifty ways to leave a loser

Just another losing streak, Pete
Make a new Plan, And
You don't need to be brave, Dave
Just set the Birds free

Nothin' on the farm, darn
Keep the dope, Tembley, Andy
Free agents aren't free, Pete
Or set the Birds free


(PS - Although I understand the sentiment of wishful thinking when it comes to the current owner, I am not a supporter of the Free the Birds campaign.)

That dude who ran the aquarium did a hell of a job and now he wants a change of scenery so any chance we can get him and put DT in charge of ticket sales at the aquarium?

My complaint is not with him pulling Bergy out of the game, but with not sticking with Berken. It's not like he's used Berken to get out 1 or 2 batters this season so why in the hell would he do that last night?

DT knows the end is near (I hope) so why doesn't he mange like there is no tomorrow? He never goes with the hot hand and he runs guys out of the BP for situational match ups that almost never work out, but he keeps doing it?

I can't believe I am saying this, but I would rather see Datz take the reign, as that guy doesn't look like he takes a lot of sh!t from people. Enough is enough with the priceline negotiator.


Sam,

"IF trembley leaves him in and Bergesen loses the game you would be the same ones complaining that Trembley left him in too long and that he should have taken him out to build his confidence."

Not me. I don't fault him for removing Bergesen, as he started to struggle. I fault Trembley for failing to stick with Berken when Berken was pitching well. DT can't let go of this match-up nonsense, despite how poorly it has worked for him. He doesn't learn from his mistakes, he just keeps repeating them. He is not a major-league manager just as many players are not major-league players. Sorry.

"If your starter get's you to the 8th, the bullpen should be able to finish the job."

In theory, perhaps, but "the bullpen" is not just one pitcher. It's a collection of a half-dozen pitchers. Even if the starter needs to be yanked, the manager then has to decide which reliever to bring in, how long to keep him in for, who should replace him if necessary, how often certain pitchers should be used, etc. This is where the manager's acumen matters. It's not as simple as "Press The Bullpen Button when it's the 8th Inning". This is where Trembley fails.

He doesn't have the greatest group of players, mind you. There's plenty of blame to go around for this season's failings, but his decision-making, particularly when it comes to the bullpen, is not good enough at the major-league level.

Trembley, like his two predecessors, has had no prior experience managing at the major-league level, and he doesn't seem to be learning on the job. It's time for the Orioles to try to hire someone who has had some success managing at the major-league level, or at least give another newbie a try.

Posted by: wayne | May 28, 2010 10:28 AM

Thank God wayne's around to tell us all what's REALLY going on. What a font of conspiracy knowledge.

Trembley overplays the match up thing to death.

If a guy comes in and is effective and a former SP to boot leave him in until he isnt effective. Theres no rule that says u have to make 28 pitching changes. IF berken comes in during the 6th or 7th inn and hes getting ppl out, leave him in there. They should use Hernandez the same way. Might even keep from burining the BP out before the all star beak and everything


There are 114 games left in this season. How many times can Trembley bring 4-5 relievers into a game before their arms fall off? He worries so much about the starters' pitch counts, but he doesn't consider how much of a physical burden he's putting on his bullpen.

His Quantity-over-Quality approach isn't working anyway, so why not keep a reliever in the game until he stops being effective?


There have been 141 appearances made by O's relievers so far this season. That's an average of nearly 3 relievers per game! How's it working out for them?

Misuse of the pitching staff aside, why on earth was Atkins left in to strike out & end the game.
Weren't Luuuuke & Markakis both available to come off the bench?
Against a hard throwing right handed pitcher?

Am I missing something here?

As so many others have said, DT manages for fear of losing rather than being aggressive enough to win.

He's afraid that Bergesen will lose the game?? What kind of confidence is that? I think it would have been cool if he had not gotten anyone up in the bullpen, and walked out to visit Bergesen, and said: "I'm not warming anyone up this inning. You've pitched a great game. Now get out of this jam and get yourself a win."

THAT'S leadership. I said this in another post and I'll say it again: if you manage your players like they are fragile kids who can't solve their own problems, who can't push themselves and who can't handle discipline, then you end up with exactly those kinds of players on your roster.


Am I missing something here?

Posted by: Tully | May 28, 2010 2:19 PM

A good manager.

Call me crazy, but I still believe that the Orioles will finish above .500 this season. Matt Wieters is having an unbelievable season this year, just like everyone predicted. Wieters is already exceeding expectations as a hitter. I am confident that the Orioles will finish in first place next season, or 2012 at the absolute latest. Andy McPhail has completely turned around the organization for the better, and it will pay off for Orioles fans this season- you'll see. Call me crazy, but my faith in the Orioles players and management is stronger than ever.

1st - Jim 'the whammer' Traber
2nd - Lenn Sakata
SS - Kiko Garcia
3rd - Fritz Connally
C - Floyd 'honeybear' Rayford
RF - Lee Lacy
CF - Mike Young
LF - Jeff Stone
SP - Ken Dixon
RP - Tom Neidenfuer

Guess I was missing something. Didn't realize that Nick's wife was giving birth yesterday.

So then the question is, if Luuuke is too hurt to come into a 2 run game in the bottom of the 9th, should he have gone on the 15 day dl instead?

We sure could have used anybody but atkins in that situation.

@Tully,

Thorne and Palmer said that Scott was available to pinch hit.

I am not saying Tatum is Joe Mauer at all, but the guy has been swinging a hot bat so why didn't he get to play DH or have Matt DH? The hot hand issue isn't just with the BP, but players as well.

Lots of Trembley bashing lately. I'm not going to vigorously defend him, but people ought to look past the current Orioles and consider the past 12 years. Every manager since Davey Johnson has ultimately been drummed out as a loser. All of them have had their intelligence questioned, quite vigorously at times. Step back and look at the bigger picture. The teams have continually lost not because the front office is incapable of hiring a competent manager. I wish that were the problem. They may not have hired the best managers in the game, but the underlying issue is just to difficult to ignore. The Orioles are an incapable franchise. They have been for years. The manager just becomes a target for all the fan frustration that accumulates after the predictable losing. Folks ought to have the pitchforks out for the front office, the scouts, and the minor league systems (or lack thereof) that in aggregate can't draft, acquire, and develop talented players. Bashing the manager is just too myopic.

Hey Wayne,

I'm not sure why, but lately, I've found your posts to be tolerable (if that's even a word). It's actually been rather enjoyable to read your posts and not seethe at the end of them. I do have a hypothetical situation for you:

Let's say, for the sake of arguments, that the O's do fire Trembley. Now, further along those lines, let's say they bring in a proven manager and they actually start to play better. Does that mean that MacPhail has "chosen wisely?" Or did the new manager just get lucky? Or is it something else that I haven't considered? What do you think?

I can't take much more. 14 straight seasons of losing baseball. Little hope on the herizon. Draft picks squandered, worst owner in baseball, no clear plan as to how to fix it. Its the worst. You could pick 100 ways to leave a loser and still have plenty of ways to keep going.

i cant even watch the games anymore,! ive switched to AUDIO ONLY,and its still so very painfull. at least i still have Jon Miller and the giants to watch/listen. much more fun! go orange and black! FIRE TREMBLEY NOW.

uh, guys! if we're disgusted with the O's
how do you think Mcphail feels watching this garbage? do you really think-he'st he greedy operator , in the Natural,? do you really, believe that andy is sitting in the warehose going- oh just how can i get these guys to lose another game?
really, still gotta put fannies in the sky boxes and seats. empty stadiums do not a payroll make.
and for all the bean counters,who think
Masn's making disposable millions- don't forget their are salaries, transmission costs, royalties and utiliteis expenses
ain't nothin' free felas

Bottom of the 9th 2 on 2 out and ANDY"s big Slugger G Atkins at the plate couldn't you feel the excitment.

Gee what a surprise Trembley and his clueless decision making once again help cause us to lose. Didn't you defend him just last week over his managing?

There was once a GM named Macphail
When he got here the fans cheered "All Hail'!
But his plan fell to pieces
And now looks more like feces
He should be be run out of town on a rail

The owner says the Nat's winning is a good thing(for him). The manager says he doesn't want to let his pitcher lose the game. I don't think Zig Ziglar could fix this company. The Orioles are in the entertainment business and they haven't been very entertaining for more than a decade. This isn't personal, its business.

John,

Thanks..... I think!

To your question, it'll be tough for AM to win by choosing a new manager.

If the team gets better, it could suggest that AM should have made the move long ago.

If the team stays the same, then he knows it's 'all' on him alone.

It could be a wise move for any manager to come here however. It's really a no lose situation. If the team continues to play badly, you (as the new manager) can point to the hopelessness of the players and the front office.

If the club improves though, you simply take all the credit.

All in all John....... what a mess!


Gil,

I would imagine he could get something of decent quality for Millwood. Perhaps a hot AAA prospect either at a corner or ss.

I don't think we could get a whole lot for Tejada. I love Miggy, but he is what he is now... a corner infielder who's batting 259, on pace to hit 14 hr's. We think he's doing better than he really is, but perhaps we're comparing him to Atkins. Bottom line, I can't see teams giving up more than a mid level prospect for him.

Scott may have the potential to bring in a good prospect, but I have a feeling his shoulder is worse than he's letting on.

All in all, nothing to get real excited about I suppose.


16-44 after the next 12 games...

This team is not going with the cast of players that they have. Most managers would want the move of berken coming in at that moment (their own pitcher of course). That is the way baseball is played today. The moves there after maybe or maybe not. Percentages today either do or don't work...Start doing some statistical means and you may say that the moves the manager should have somehow worked in the O's favor...However the problem runs in the fact that the team is using seconds as there main bullpen pitchers...If you have a healthy Jim Johnson or a healthy Koji (probably a bad name, but oh well) the chances increase for better production. The point is the talent is not where a manager can win steadily, which forces the manager to try more maneuvering with his team to try to squeak out wins. Another factor that is not helping is having Garrett Atkins as your hope in the bottom of the ninth and two outs preceded by a one pitch out by Adam Jones with one out and two on base.

This season is a wash at this point. No manager is going to be able to rescue the season. The talent is not here.

16-44 after the next 12, then onto 120 losses for the season.


when does training camp
begin for the Ravens???

The Orioles are forgotten
by July no adays... Sad, they
used to heat up after All Star
break after they had a 10-15
game lead on New York, Boston,
Detroit yes in the AL East.

Now they can't even compete
with expansion teams Tampa Bay
and Toronto...

Elton John , So Sad, it's
a sad sad feeling.....

My Kingdom for an extra base hit................

I agree with the comment about Earl weaver and lighting a fire under the pitcher.Why is Trembley still the manager,if he cant do that.He should have never been given the chance to manage this year.Where did he He and the GM get the idea that this pitching staff was going to win,let alone complete a single game.Time to look to next year.Another losing season.Im rooting for the Nats.

I agree with the comment about Earl weaver and lighting a fire under the pitcher.Why is Trembley still the manager,if he cant do that.He should have never been given the chance to manage this year.Where did he He and the GM get the idea that this pitching staff was going to win,let alone complete a single game.Time to look to next year.Another losing season.Im rooting for the Nats.

You make your own luck and Trembley just has no idea how to do anything well except fabricate excuses. How much longer do we have to endure this sad excuse for a manager?? When will Angelos and McPhail notice that no one is watching? Their acceptance of such a pitiful performance by their on-field managers and coaches has to make you wonder if they are setting up the city for another Mayflower raid; justifying it by poor attendance as Irsay did.

Absolutely the worst team EVER to don a major league uniform! They might not win 40 games!

40-122,Now there's something to be proud of. It couldn't happen to a nicer millionaire!

Casey where are you?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I'll take that bet.

this trembly bashing has tostop everybody knows hes in the wrong business is clueless and idiot , moron , has a iq of schumcks sandles is killing thes young pitchers confidence ,braindead ,or no brain at aLL,but the scary part is the high managements just watches, does nothing .we have regressed hard to even imagine that waspossible but here we are again, no hope just depression when you watch these moves trembly makes and the front office watching captain chesapeake.all hail garett atkins , what a offseason move ,power rbi this man has ONE HOMERUN 6 RBIS ARE YOU KIDDING ME , COME ON SCHMUCK SAY SOMTHING

never thot i'd say this, but turn the club over to cal ripken, triple the budget for player salaries & watch things improve. i've really lost interest in this team, & i was a fan since '54.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: That would be great, but the $243 million payroll, plus $40 million in luxury tax would probably bankrupt the team in two or three years.

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About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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