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April 19, 2010

Cal's statement in focus

If you've read Cal Ripken's statement about the controversy that bubbled up over the weekend -- which you can do by just scrolling down a bit -- you might have noticed a few things.

First, he rebutted one aspect of Ken Rosenthal's FoxSports.com report Friday night about him supposedly offering his help to the beleaguered Orioles organization and allegedly being rebuffed by owner Peter Angelos. He denies only that Angelos told Cal that he did not want him to get too much credit if the team eventually turns around.

Nowhere in Ripken's statement, however, does he deny offering to join the front office and nowhere does he address whether the team refused any offer of help. That seems significant to me because it leaves open the possibility that he suggested some role with the team and was told that the timing of his return to the organization would not be right. From that, you could surmise all sorts of reasons why the Orioles wouldn't be ready to welcome him back in the midst of a horrible season-opening slump -- one of which would be the possibility of him getting undue credit when the team turned around.

Angelos already has been quoted denying that Cal asked for a job or was rejected. Cal's statement seems to leave open the possibility that a job in the organization could be forthcoming fairly soon.

This soap opera is far from over.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 11:58 AM | | Comments (105)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

Really interesting. Seems like Cal's statement was drafted in legal-speak as well. As you said, it only addressed directly the point that Angelos told him he didn't want him to "receive credit." Of course, Ken Rosenthal had three sources that told him this.

Seems that unless Rosenthal weighs in further here, this story is done.

Kenny,
Your blog is useless

Of course, Cal has also said in the past that he wanted to wait until his son goes to college in a couple of years, so this seems to be nothing more than idle chit-chat.

Calvin put out a statement. He did not address questions. Peter you nailed it on the head. I believe Ken more than I believe 8. Besides 8 only won one World Series. I know he knows a lot about playing in every game, but a front office job is about teamwork and sharing credit.

My Take, for what it's worth...

Cal asked for a job as Andy's assistan/protege/GM in waiting... Andy thought this is a good idea, I'll be leaving in a few years for the Commish job, so let's get an heir apparent in here. PGA heard about the idea, didn't want to pay someone who could usurp his accolades and/or genius for hiring Andy. PGA stuck his foot in his mouth to the wrong person, and someone spouted to Rosenthal.

PGA's comment along the lines of 'even if i did harbor those thoughts, i wouldn't be crass enough to speak them' - of course you would, you ego maniac! That's PGA to a tee! Crass, plotting, manipulative.

Sad thing is, Cal as GM cannot help this team. Can as owner can, but that ain't EVER happening.

...classic Ripken style. He'd make a nice Senate Democrat....somebody on the inside ratted Pete out. Me thinks Billy had one too many Corona's before he answered that phone call.....

At the end of the day, who cares? Cal is correct - he and Angelos have had a good relationship over the years. Why is Rosenthal trying to "get the scoop" on this one, when there's really not much to scoop?

The damning comment was that PA didn't want Cal to get credit. Both have denied that comment, so what's the story here?

Now, if Rosenthal can confirm that Cal offered to lead a group to buy the team, or is in some serious talks about a job within the organization, fine. Report it. Print it.

Otherwise, move along folks....

Seems to me as though some of you are ready to stroke out over something you can't control.
I'll continue to extract much joy reading the hate-filled posts and realizing that the team will not be sold and will continue on its current path,
much to your chagrin.
And once again to those yelping
about taking back your team, I offer this advice:
Get together with fellow members of your intelligencia,
get some money together, and do what anybody who wants a team does: TRY TO BUY IT!
It can't be that difficult for you guys. Do the math. There seem to be millions of you. Everybody kick in half a grand and give it a shot. You'll get the O's, MASN(that cash cow), revenue sharing, install your own GM(no problem finding a blogger to do that) and a throne to sit on. Well, you'll have to take turns, but maybe just elect one guy king and go from there...

Not Anonymous- interesting take but I'm thinking a slightly different chain of events.

If I had to bet, I would say that Cal did express interest in joining the front office under or with Andy MacPhail. He's shown a lot of interest in becoming a baseball executive in recent years and also perhaps in becoming an owner. This opportunity seemed to make sense from him not only as an opportunity to build/polish his executive skills and contribute to his former team, but also because the prospect of joining a team that looks poised to improve over the next year would doubtless be good for his resume as an executive. This had to enter into his thinking- otherwise why didn't he offer his assistance five years ago? Why now?

MacPhail doesn't have the power to rebuff Cal without risking negative publicity and personal career risk, so he likely had a very pleasant but non-committal conversation with Cal and punted to Angelos. I doubt MacPhail would have been too excited about this idea- his aim has always seemed to be to ride out of Baltimore triumphant after a completed turnaround into the commissioner's office, why share the credit after he had to endure years of criticism during the hard past of the plan? As well, having Cal on the inside would have been a threat to his power- it isn't hard to imagine what folks on this message board would be demanding if 2010 continues to be a disappointment. I'm certain Andy would have told Angelos of this preferences.

Peter made the hard call and is taking the PR beating, but I think it was actually the right move. This team doesn't need two cooks in the kitchen, especially one who doesn't have a lot of executive experience, has a high degree of local pull and personal ambitions of his own that might create conflict. If I were Angelos I would have done the same thing- to politely avoid this or put it off. "Cal, it's a GREAT idea for you to join the Os, just not right now..." I don't believe a man of Peter Angelos' intellect would have said some of the things quoted by Rosenthal.

Which means that Cal, upset at being rebuffed, put in a call or had some associates do it for him, aiming to smear the organization a bit for turning him down. Clearly, he didn't anticipate that this would reflect so poorly on him.

Of course, the easy solution to all this uncertainty would be for Rosenthal to reveal his "unnamed sources" or admit that the story was wrong. Both parties to the conversation between Ripken and Angelos have now publicly stated that Rosenthal is wrong in his reporting. If someone is changing their story now, or if Ken has further proof- let's hear the details.

oh so you want to drag Billy Ripken into it? Funny guy. And you insinuate he's a drunk too. Listen, Ken Rosenthal may be right. But what does it matter? Sure, I was pissed off when I read the story over the weekend, but now I'm just mad at myself for getting upset. If no one involved says anything happened, then even if they're covering it up, it's no longer my business. To sit here and throw out accusations is pointless. I used to like Rosenthal, but not now. These "unnamed" sources just make things worse. I don't want to read about someone saying "such and such is a jerk". You believe it put your name behind it. Rosenthal led off with that quote and offered no context. This soap opera's over for me. The only thing gained now is making PA look like a pariah, and no one wants that.

When its a slow newsday do you guys just make this stuff up? Because it sure seems like it

jim66- The Orioles have a king and his name is Peter Angelos. He'd prefer to be an emperor.

He is the Stalin of the Orioles.

Cal only said that PA never told him that he didn't want him to get credit when (ha, ha) the team turns around. PA certainly may have said that to others. I don't think Ken Rosenthal was so specific as to say to whom PA made the comment.

Hi Jim66,

Glad to see you back on the board and killing the messengers as usual. The fans have a right to stick their finger down their collective throats at this juncture. I do agree with you on one point...the Ripken/Angelos story is a diversionary sideshow fro the fact that this team is actually getting worse, not better since Macphail took over in June 2007. Now Jim, you have to admit even the diehard 1960's style rebuilding proponents like yourself figured that Macphail would at least have this team compettive by 2010. Even you could not have predicted the directionless disaster that Macphail has brought down around us.

Admit it, you just are a teensey weensey bit disappointed in Andy the genius.

My two cents: I think Cal dropped in and talked to McPhail about helping out, said he'd be glad to work with the young guys, see if he could maybe speed them along a bit etc. McPhail said "sure, glad to have you on board, go talk to Peter and get the details straightened out"
Peter says "Cal, we'd love to have your help, but could you wait a bit? with the horrible losing streak we're in now if you come in and the team starts hitting the next day, you're going to have everyone in Baltimore thinking you're the second coming of Abner Doubleday coming to bless the Orioles with your mighty presence." I think this club is going to turn it around soon and I think Andy and Dave deserve to get the full credit."
Trust me folks, I am no Angelos fan. I have been praying for him to give up the team for many years, but that seems plausible to me, it seems to explain things pretty well, and there's really no compelling reason to make anyone a bad guy here, including Rosenthal who may have gotten a second or third hand account of what went on.
It's the sort of thing they'd just as soon not admit to even if it is true because it can look bad if you want it to and a lot of us just automatically assume the worst when it comes to Mr. Angelos, so we want it to. I bought in right away.
Unless Cal says more, it looks over to me, mountain out of a molehill.

Andrew,

Well thought, and very likely correct on many points.

I still beleive PGA had a hand in things, prompted by AM or not, and deep down doesn't want a backseat to anyone. He is a crotchedy old ego maniac.

Cal can't help this team meaningfully in any role other than an ownership one. No one can help this team w/ PGA as owner. Andy is in a tough spot working for this dolt. One that would be much tougher for Cal, who could not as easily dismiss the community.

This "story" will get swept away. Cal will take some consulting type role with the team, and the Titanic will continue on its course. After a couple more years of losing, Cal will leave his 2ndry role, having accomplished nothing. Perhaps he'll land with another local team and take them to the promised land.

Question is, in 5 years, with Andy gone, and the Cal bridge burned, who will PGA have left to market the team? Can you say, Portland Orioles?


Hi Gil,

The team could use a cleanup hitter and a solid closer. Losing Roberts does not help the situation, but I'm not gonna use that as an excuse. I figure an organization should be able to withstand the loss of one player. Not having a capable replacement at AAA, not so good.
I figured that 75 wins or so this year in this division was in line with the talent level. I'm practical. Two spots listed above might get the team to 81.
Reasonable I think.

Here's the way i view the messengers: if the team was 10-3, they'd be griping that it's all smoke and mirrors, AM is lucky, Trembley has more luck than AM,and wait until they fail. You cannot convince me that the messengers as you call them can give credit where credit is or would be due.
Now that the team is 2-11, they get to skip the waiting part, and see the rest of the season playing out at a 2-11 pace. That's Mr Numbers extrapolating the current record over 162 games. Wow, what a genius.
Let's do that to the Red Sox after 12 games, and say the boy genius' move to pitching and defense has failed miserably and they'll be lucky to win 55 games!Yea for me I can do math!!

Blabbing on and on about PA on this blog is pointless, save for all of those needing to spend their time ranting about things they cannot change. What the hell is the message there?
Say it once and be done. You get tired of the optimists, I'm tired of the others.

I'm asking the messengers to stop yapping and take real action. I guess they are incapable of voting with their pocketbooks, and would rather beat the dead horse until it's more dead i guess.

Angelos said that Cal didn't ask for a job, but he didn't deny that MacPhail might have tried to offer him one and then was handcuffed by Angelos. You people have to see it. CAL LEAKED THE STORY!!! He is a VERY savvy guy and he used Rosenthal to embarass Angelos into doing whatever he wants; which includes running the Orioles.

Way to go Cal. You da man...

Jim66,

You can't change the negative posters from posting, so why do you post ? You can't change it, why bother ? Stop yakking and take real action. I guess you would rather beat a dead horse and complain about people complaining. Brilliant

If the idea is to build from the farm, how can folks expect success in just 3 years? Ascension through the levels (Rookie, low A, High A, AA, AAA) takes at least three years for most players and then most guys need a year or two at the ML level to acclimate. IMO, a more realistic timeframe to make the farm produce enough talent to be competitive requires at least three good draft classes and 3 years of minors matriculation followed by two years orientation in the ML. That's 8 years! Too long for anyone to handle (or admit) when it means 2014 and the interim loss of fans would be devastating to the FO. How long did the Rays stink? I'm not supporting the O's with my $$$ but I'm also not expecting them to win now. Sometimes in life you have to accept the things you cannot change and move on. In the meantime I'll be listening on the radio and watching on TV enjoying the growth of guys like Matusz.. Let's stop kidding ourselves and lets also stop complaining about something we have no real influence over.

I think the answer may be simple: Rosenthal is taking cues from The Wire's Scott Templeton.

Peter, Ken Rosenthal is a former colleague of yours. Considering that many people are still pondering whether his story is accurate, I'm just wondering if you're assuming he lied or at least stretched the truth a little. If not, then the story is true and we can move on from the endless debate about "what really happened." If you don't think it's true, then I wonder what motives Rosenthal had for publishing it. He's a national baseball commentator now; the season is 2 weeks old and nobody nationally cares about the Orioles anymore, even when Cal Ripken is involved. I seriously doubt he would risk his professional integrity to conjure up a fictional story regarding the Orioles, which is what anyone who is still questioning the story's validity is basically implying.

Hitler > Angelos.

A lot of us have voted with our pocketbooks. If the early games are any indication, this year's attendance will set another record low. I for one cancelled a full season ticket plan my company held for over 25 years for a 15 game plan this season, and put no money in the budget next year for Oriole tickets. I'm not going to go out there with a bag over my head, but not going out there at all anymore and donating my money to Angelos is somewhat satisfying

Jim, if the Orioles had a strong finish last year and showed significant signs signs of progress, I don't think you would see the reaction this negative in regards to the early season losing. But going 2 and 11 after a 98 loss season does tend to dim the optomism a little. I predicted over the winter that if the Orioles got off to a bad start, fan reaction would finally reach the tipping point. Of course Angelos doesn't care what the fans think as long as he pockets the 40 million a year from MASN, so we can piss and moan all we want and nothing will ever change as long as he owns the team.

For me, it's theraputic to get on and say I told you so as far as Macphail is concerned. I get no small satisfaction from being right all along since I first saw through his rebuilding scam in 2008. And I'm right until I'm wrong, which is even more fun.

You noticed how much attention is being paid to the cal ripken situation. It's a great way to sway the focus away from the team being 2 and 11. See pete now doesn't have to write anything negative about the team now, this will carry him until thursday night and then the ravens draft will again take presidence over the orioles.

Chris in HA,


Still waiting on those figures on how much the Orioles are spending on scouting and how those numbers compare to the rest of the division. Are you making up stories again ?

PA needs to sell the team to Cal. He needs to get out before he's villianized more than he is already.

Andrew-
You're entire post wreaks of ignorance- because you ask "Why would Cal come now, and NOT 5 years ago?"

Did you not read the story? Cal said quite specifically that he was waiting until his kids were out of high school before resuming a career in the majors. He wanted to be a father.

What do you not understand about this???

To insinuate that Cal was purposely "waiting" until the team was ready to bust out- so he could swoop in and get credit for it is downright ridiculous.

I think the answer is simple. Chris in Hawaii is a liar.

Its not the 1st time, hes lied on one of his posts and certainly wont be his last.

I wonder if he has figured out how to read the Forbes articles yet ?

i think cal ripken should stay away from the orioles while peter angelos is owner. now if cal could talk pa to sell the the team to him,wouldn't it be great if that happened.

Jason,
Why don't you fxck that Forbes article and get it over with? You've been sweating it for months...be a man and make the move.

You're entire post *reeks* of ignorance-

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

All this soap opera is taking attention away from the only thing that matters. The standings. I have a sneaking suspicion this was a manufactured 'crisis' to help deflect attention from what's happening on the field. Any ongoing saga will continue to help deflect attention.

I can only hope the fans stop getting suckered by this diversion. Besides, fans will never be privy to the truth. It will all be orchestrated leaks. This is all secondary crapola that a good team wouldn't waste time and energy on.

Gil

So in 10 years can I say I told you so?


hahahahajajajaja

take *presidence* over the ..

Presidence- from the Latin,
President and Residence:
Short for:
Presidential Residence

replace with *precedence*

no need to learn any new words and really screw up the conversation...

Dave in GB...how do you go from hahaha to hahaJaJaJa?

Ah yes....Glen Burnie. Never mind.


I haven't said peep about this Cal Ripken story - as it's largely speculation - but I'm puzzled when I read posters suggesting that Angelos should sell the Orioles to Cal Ripken.

Where is Cal Ripken going to get the $500 million or so needed to buy the team? He made less than $100 million as a player.

I'm serious: I'd like to know where Cal would get the money to buy the O's, assuming he even wanted to.

AngelOs,

Are you serious? You don't know how this works? Go look how W became the "owner" of the Texas Rangers. Someone has to be the big name/face of a ownership GROUP. In this case, it's Ripken. In Texas' case, it was Bush.

Trust me, Ripken can put together a group of owners that can pony up 500m to 1b in short order and he would mabe need to be in for 10-20 himself.


Rob K.,

Thanks for the reply. I still don't have that much confidence that others will follow suit in in investing in light of the Orioles' recent history. However, as you noted, having Cal Ripken brand name certainly would help.

Of course this would be in contrast to when Angelos bought the team, as he had oodles of cash from his Absestos pay-outs. If I remember correctly, he had a few minority partners (Tom Clancy, Pam Shriver, et al.), but as we O's fans can bear witness, it's been Angelos' team in terms of who's been calling the shots.

laughing in spanish

Ahhh Petes red herring story of the day..... (week?).... What’s next another Koji update? A story about food?? HA HA

Sell it Peter Angeloser!

Fire MacFail!

Fire Tremblay!

...i think Ripken runs with a different crowd then PGA. My guess is he has more business/CEO folks (Shattuck, Archibald) and less celebrities/athletes like Shriver, Clancy, Geppi.

The one thing I would love to know is how his estate is set up. Some folks, like the Modell's, sell off a team to avoid estate or future estate tax. I can think of a few of teams/families this happened to....Jack Kent Cooke/Redskins, Georgia Frontierre. Probably more I'm forgetting. I say this because I suspect John Angelos is a carbon copy (perhaps taller) of his old man. I'm always leerie of the children of wealth. They never really accomplished anything on their own.

This entire thing reeks of the pompous and typical gargabe of the Baltimore Sun Fifth Estate, trash all outsiders and do not claim to have any knowledge or involvement in the matters. Only statement is the fifth estate believes that knows more about EVEYTHING including God.

who would want any part of the worst team in baseball, even the nationals are playing 500 ball? cal's re emergence?

who would want any part of the worst team in baseball, even the nationals are playing 500 ball?

Mike...the uber rich just want another toy. Only so many pro sports teams around. If Angelos would sell, you would have 8-10 groups interested with only 3-4 with serious enough resources to make a final push.

Geez, I've been waiting for the few Nats fans out there to start yapping. They will be bottom feeders in due time. Be patient.

I've spent some time carefully parsing Cal's statement, and here are some possibilities as to what he really was saying..

"Ken Rosenthal is an insolent little twit."

"Peter is more than willing to share the credit. In fact, he asked me if I was willing to take some of the credit for the last 12 years"

"Peter who?"

"i' haven't been avoiding the team. I've just been admiring its recent success from afar."

"I tried pot once, but I didn't inhale."

"Jane, you ignorant slut."

"I am the egg man, I am the walrus, coo coo ca-choo."

It's funny how many folks know what was said, when it was said and how it was said because they "know" Peter Angelos. Really? lol

Ptbnl,

I'm pretty sure it was Peter Angelos who made my omelette at the Greek Diner last week. Had a nice chat with him at the counter.

Jeremy-

It's more than a little ironic that you sharpshoot my post for REEK-ing of ignorance but use WREAK, which is the wrong word for the context. Before you sharpshoot someone else on the basis of being ignorant next time you might want to have someone proof-read your post (a fifth grader would probably be sufficient to catch an error like that).

So Cal has been too busy until just this moment to seek to get involved in helping Andy MacPhail implement his turnaround plan, and it was because his kids were in high school? Hmmm, just reading Ripken's wikipedia bio as much page space is dedicated to everything he's been up to since retiring as there is to his playing career, which I found amazing. Apparently he's been a very busy guy, involved in business, media, charitable and even government activities far and wide in baseball and beyond. That's hard to reconcile with your assertion that he's been simply too busy to do anything else. You can't be wrong because you're obviously such a smart person, so can you do me a favor and explain what I'm missing here?

pete-

I disagree. I think with any celebrity/politician's statement, they never completely answer the accusation, because they don't have to. "Source" journalism doesn't require a response and Cal is above this crap. As much as everyone wants him to, he doesn't have to go blow by blow and answer every question. I mean its not like he was in a painkiller haze and drove his Escalade (or in Cal's case-Chevy Silverado) into a tree while his wife hit him with a Louisville Slugger.

As of now, the O's have a GM, Andy MacPhail. Right or wrong, he's there and he's in charge. Whether they are ready for him or not, there are probably plenty of reasons for and against him coming into the fold at this point.

I think the neat part of this all is that we are a few years away from Cal being apart of the O's again. Not that he is the white knight, but the guy knows his shizzy.

I would like to here Ken Rosenthal's response to all of this. That is the true crap in this situation. Writers can just throw this stuff out there and it doesn't matter. Not like writers have batting averages. If so, I would rate them slightly higher than the people that write for US Weekly and slightly above the national political spinsters


I can't wait for Cal to come out and confirm and expose Angelos to the entire World
~~~~~~~~~~~~
And if he doesnt will you admit you over reacted in your zeal to use any opportunity to blast Angelos?

Posted by: Lucky Horseshoe


>>>>>>>>>>>
Just thought the above needed to be brought forward from where it first occurred

Does any of it matter?

The O's are 2-12 and their two BEST PROSPECTS are the definition of horrible in AAA.

Best thing to do?

Go to The Yard if you enjoy big league baseball, mainly to watch whoever the O's are playing, and.....

... find another team to get interested in.

If you're a competitive person (at all), and if you like to watch wins instead of losses, this is truly your only choice.

St Louis for example, is a fine team to follow. Similar size market to Baltimore. Always a competitive team. Owner that spends to the size of his market. GM who understands today's game. And the Cardinal bird even looks a lot like an Oriole....

There are others to choose from as well..... Try it.....

It's kind of fun....

Try it!

I know some things that I have read where there is a certain base price that Angelos would get for the team, but as a businessman: Wouldn't you want the team playing the best it can for sale purpose?

I remember in the mid-90's when the team was going well: He tried to get the players. They all did not work out. I.E: Albert Belle due to injury. He also tried a few different pitchers that just did not work out. If he were to try to sell this team it would be discount price due to performance. If I wanted to buy a team, I want a well oiled machine: Kind of like buying a house...I want it in tip-top shape.

Hopefully that will be coming soon (although I am not sure how soon).

Oh My.....


From NBC Sports Power Rankings:

30) Orioles - 'I remember back when Oriole fans were looked at with jealousy. Now we pity them'


Oh that national press...... They're so impressed with the Plan these days.....

Dan F: I like the analogy of selling a team and a house. I can see the classified ad now: Handyman Special. Lots of potential. In need of TLC.

None of this Cal Ripken talk is going to put W's on the board this season, so I don't really give a carp. It's just the only thing to talk about I guess during a 9-game losing streak. By the way, we are only two games behind the Red Sox.

wayne-

Who wrote that? Andy Rooney? This hasn't been an envious franchise since the early 80's. The only thing people were jealous over in the 90's was the ballpark.

Further, whats new? They are 2-11. What the hell did you expect? 15th?

Tell me, where does one buy a cilice? At like an S&M store? Religious store? or do you just tie batting donuts to your leg and drag them as your self imposed punishment?

WHHHHAPPP!!!!! Another loss!!! WHHAPPP!!!! Ground into double play!
WHHHHAPPPP!!!! 8 left on base!

Wayne,

Either on this thread or another I read that one of the true believers admitted that Macphail really had an 8 year plan and we are going to suck until 2014, so get over it.

That's the first time I have seen it's really about 2014!! What's next, it was never really about 2015 anyway?

If this situation wasn't so pathetic it would actually be funny. I think SHAMROCK had it right. We all knew they were going to suck so why act surprised? I knew they would be bad but I didn't think they could be mathematically eliminated in late July.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Ken-Rosenthal-Balitmore-Orioles-should-call-on-legends-for-advice-041910

Rosenthal's response. Basically spends half the column trashing Angelos for not hiring Cal Ripken (while ignoring basic facts, like Cal Ripken not being interested until recently at the very least), than the other half trashing Cal Ripken himself.

Classy response if I ever saw one...

Hitler > Angelos.

Posted by: Cam Elto
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter, if you allow this post and Meso's blow job references . . . just what are you NOT allowing to be posted?

Wayne if you are such a true fan and care so much about the Orioles you wouldn't be telling people to go cheer for someone else.

I know some things that I have read where there is a certain base price that Angelos would get for the team, but as a businessman: Wouldn't you want the team playing the best it can for sale purpose?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

According to Forbes, the franchise is worth well above that minimum price already. People just throw that out there like they do the supposed MASN gazillions to pile on. As if the truth about Angelos' management of this team isnt bad enough, they need to lie and make stuff up just to pile on.

Why would Peter say no. As if anyone would give him any credit for any turnaround.

Rosenthal's piece and everything said after it is stupid. Angelos's job is to hire the president of baseball operations (or whatever title) and to participate with him in staffing the highest front-office positions and the manager. So what advice could Ripken give? If the O's want his opinion on when to bunt, he needs a job as Trembley's assistant, not Angelos's. If we need his advice on player acquisition, he needs to work for McPhail, not for Angelos. If we want him as a 'goodwill ambassador' or such, he needs to work for whover is in charge of promotions, not for Angelos. Or whatever. If Angelos would hire anyone to advise him on baseball matters, that would be a serious and stupid violation of the way things work, and ought to be the cause for mass resignations in the office and in the dugout. So can we just talk about baseball? I'm honestly expecting Bergeson to give a solid performance tonight. Too bad I'll be asleep.

Hitler? Stalin? Boys, those lightweights got nuthin on me...ok, more pub, but at the end of the day, or reign, I did a fair amount of damage myself. And I gotta write my own little note to get a mention in a blog???

Someone let Google back in.

Regards,

M

DJ,

There can be no classy response to this mess. Come on man, please learn how these things go down.....

Listen, Ken R is an honest professional, with an amazing national reputation. As you can see by the story, he went to BOTH camps PRIOR to releasing the original story.... something only done by legitimate reporters/media outlets.

How come neither commented to Kenny then? They both had the entire story to read (I know as I've been in such situations with the media). So why didn't either camp put up a fight before going to print?

Why? Because everything KR said in his original story was 100% true.

All you're seeing now is the back peddling and politics. And trust me, PA knows politics.

Oh Cool,
Wayne even knows about national media too..man, this is too good to be true...

Too bad he lives in New Jersey...

Outstanding and unbelievably insightful posts from the 21st century....

O's suck
Gil

AM sucks
Wayne

Petey Greedy won't spend enough\
Jason

I told you the O's would suck
Keith Rowe

Who needs Shakespeare?

The logic by certain people on this board apparently flows as follows:

Rosenthal comes out with story-

Reaction: Horrible! Angelos should be forced to sell the team. Bring in Cal!

Angelos responds claiming Rosenthal's report was bassically misinformed-

Reaction: What a liar! I can't wait to hear what Cal has to say!

Cal responds, also reputing the Rosenthal story-

Reaction: Did you notice what he "didn't say"????? Rosenthal was right!

Rosenthal posts a follow up and blasts both Angelos and Cal as if he had actually shown each of them the entire story and they said to run it-

Reaction: See! Rosenthal is a class act!


Moral of the story --- some people were going to believe what they were going to believe no matter what the actual truth may be.

Use your eyes, gentleman... your brains don't work.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!

C'mon Chris

Ken Rosenthal is a class act who would never write something just to stir things up....I know this cause Wayne said so.....

And Wayne has no clue about running a major league team so I figure he must have some excellent knowledge of the character of sportswriters....It's not possible he could be wrong on so many things is it?

Great post as usual

To Rob K. and AngelOs: do you really think majority owners of professional teams (and their ownership groups) paid cash for their teams? It's like any other large purchase: the deal is financed, the buyers sign a note and put down only a small percentage of the sale price (which is why people like Angelos bring on minority owners; they assume some of the risk and contribute to the cash portion of the deal); the seller (because they did the same thing when they bought the team) pays of the remainder of their debt (i.e. the original note and any other debt associated with their ownership of the team) and is paid anything that's left over at settlement (or may even hold a note for a portion of the sale price, giving them a continued vested interest in the future success of the team -- which the buyers like -- while also giving them some recurring income -- with interest -- for several years after the sale, which helps defer their income from the sale so they don't take the tax hit all in one year).

This isn't brain surgery; it's basic finance that any home or car owner, or really anyone who works for a living should've learned in high school.

Hey smitty (but we know who you really are....... that's cool though),

Nope, I never said KR wouldn't right something to stir things up. I did say however, that he's an honest professional. And what's wrong with stirring things up? This team couldn't use a little stirring?

And you're right, I have no clue about running a major league team (and I've said such). I've also said however, that I couldn't possibly do worse than what we've seen.

The team won 64 games in 09', is 2-11 so far this year, and their two TOP prospects are insulting the word horrible so far at AAA.

Smitty ------ You could do as well. Dude, how could you do worse?

CIH,

You can't tell people to use their eyes Chris. Do to spin, politics and bs, you have to use your head. Come on now, you're a smart guy.

Les,

KR doesn't hate Baltimore, and if you were a national reporter with sources in Maryland, would you have good things to say about the worst team in baseball? You call it 'bashing'. I call it 'it's what the local media should be doing every single day'...

Remember though Les....and this is VERY important.....

...when KR was here, he would be very critical of the O's from time to time. Let me ask you....

How do you think that served him?

So you are right about one thing. He does not like Angelos. Who in baseball does though?

And he wasn't that tough on Cal by the way. Please read the good things (the important things) he said about Cal.


I know I'm only talking to a slim majority here when I say this, but guys...... try to think a little. It really does help...

or 'write' perhaps........

time to sign off to watch another loss.....

Enjoy watching the Great and Wonderful....

PLAN....

Enter laugh track from 'Thriller'.......

Thanks for proving my point Wayne..
You know KR he's "an honest professional"
And how exactly does Wayne know this?
I guess how he knows a lot of other things...by agreeing with anything that bashes the O's
wonderful dedeuctive reasoning...
You "know it" because you agree with it
Those public schools are great


RE: Posted by: Chris in Hawaii | April 19, 2010 8:58 PM

yeap, nailed it.

It kinda goes to a larger issue in society. Lack of Critical Thinking skills.

EG: one e-mail questions Global Warming, thus it's all bunk.

EG: One Smoker lived till 102, thus smoking doesn't kill.

EG: Of the millions of examples of Evolution, there is one source that claims otherwise.

EG: There are dozens of issues with the O's, but one man put them all together and by removing him, all the issues will go away.

I think people just believe what they want, these days. People only listen/hear things that form to the opinion they already had. Those things that run contrary are ignored and/or undermined.


...but I did hear Cal say Angelos eats babies. That wasn't denied, right.

SmittySham,

For what it's worth... wayne is correct. I know KR. He does his job well. You don't get to be a sr. writer with one of the top sports news groups by being a vindictive putz. The story is right on.

Andy is looking for an escape plan with dignity. Cal can provide that, but PGA won't have it. PGA knows he can't control Cal. But with enough public outrage... who knows. Seems sly ole Andy may be the puppeteer in this show.

Killing time at work before the game starts. Wondering what would I might give up for A-Gone's 1.5 years with an extension worked out at the time of trade (knowing that San Diego would want guys with little to no service time)...

1. Tillman or Arrieta
2. Hernandez, Erbe or Johnson
3. Caleb Joseph
4. Xavier Avery

Hey Wayne (Not Anonymous)

Did you kind of miss what Cal and Angelos said?...The story was not "right on" .....more like "way wrong"

but don't let the facts get in your way..

You can get elected President and hate the constitution and our founding fathers..I figured you could be a putz and still get a good gig writing sports

I use so many names, I forget where one starts and the other ends. Sometimes, I post just a minute or two using a different name because i know i fool most of you morons.

I try to throw you off by accusing others of doing what i do because you're just dumb enough to believe me.

I never have anything useful to say so i bash people like Jason, wayne and gil because i hate the attention they get. I also hate how they're always, always right.

Now I'm going to watch the orioles lose tonight while thinking of yet another way of making punch out of shit..

i am spartakuuuus

Journalism has hit an all-time low. Those who cover MLB for FOX & ESPN have serious credibility issues. They specialize in gossip meant to shock the **** out of their readers (suckers?), not solid baseball news. Peter, do these gossip fiends have any sense of decency? Do they have ANY sense of decency?


can we

please

please

please

please

keep politics off the blog.


It get's silly enough in here without it.

Cal was the most over rated oriole of all time. I'm thinking that Andy would never have allowed the streak to continue because he's a real exec who knows how to handle a professional team without allowing 230 hitters to control the team. Cal was and is a trouble maker. I hope you goes to another club, like Boston. They deserve each other.

As I said when the story broke Saturday, Ken Rosenthal has great credibility across baseball...except where it comes to the Orioles and Peter Angelos. He has had major wood against PA and, by extension, the O's since the 90s. I would believe almost anything he would dig up on any other team, but he has a jaundiced eye toward this team. Read his columns from the Sun before he left, or anything even tangentially related to the team since. Even a nominally positive comment -- say, the signing of Matt Wieters -- would be couched in the snarkiest of terms.

He apparently didn't speak to either PA or Cal before running with this story -- not even a throwaway line in the piece saying neither was available for comment. Wouldn't Journalism 101 insist that he at least try to confirm the story with the subjects? He says in tonight's follow-up that they both declined comment before it was published. Why didn't you say that, Ken? Not enough space?

Oh, but there seems to be plenty of room for you to go on -- dare I say it? -- a Wayne-like rant about everything that has gone wrong. Ken lays into Angelos, not even as well as some here could, then aims his barbs at Cal, calling him everything from passive-aggressive to a "Hall of Fame pain in the rear."

Yes, you have to admire that cool, detached view of the journalist. If you can't name the sources, and the subjects call you a liar, you just have to impugn their character and declare yourself vindicated.

It does sound like Wayne, doesn't it?

(Oh, this would be where he calls me "Shamrock" or something. Maybe I should start calling him "Ken.")

Just read the KR article. Sounds like someone's cheerios were p'ed in.

"Why isn’t Ripken already working for the Orioles?"

Because he is waiting for his son to graduate HS and he is a little busy with his baseball camps and wildly successful minor league team. That was his focus since he retired. Thats why KR. Next?

Why isn’t Brooks Robinson involved with the team? Why isn’t Frank Robinson?

They both were. Frank sucked as a mgr and Brooks is 80 now. Brooks called games for a while, but started to slip as he couldn't pronounce any of the foriegn names (poor Hippolato Pichardo). Maybe they should be invited around more, but whatever. Tell them to open a BBQ stand and sign autographs. Tired of the nostalgia crap with the O's. They do plenty already. New players can't related to the old timers. What is an 80 year old retired third basemen going to offer in the ways of building a team?

"A number of former Orioles — including Hall of Famers Jim Palmer and Eddie Murray — serve the club as paid broadcasters, but the O’s need to draw from their tradition in ways that go beyond Boog Powell cooking ribs on Eutaw Street."

Eddie Murray sucked as a coach. He was fired. Next?

"Nolan Ryan's the Rangers’ team president, George Brett's the Royals’ vice president of baseball operations, Greg Maddux is a special assistant to the general manager with the Cubs and Tom Glavine's a special assistant to the president with the Braves."

Aside from Ryan, whoopdie freakin' doo. Ryan ran several minor league teams prior to doing so. How is Brett working out for KC? Maddux and Glavine are "special" assistants. Wasn't George Costanza an assistant of some sort?

"Ripken: “I have met with Andy (MacPhail, the Orioles’ president of baseball operations) and Peter on a number of occasions to discuss many subjects. Ultimately, our discussions have turned to baseball, the Orioles and me. I have enjoyed those talks very much, and yes, the subject has been broached about me potentially joining the organization. I look forward to those talks continuing.”

Angelos to ESPN.com: “Quite simply, Cal Ripken did not offer to become part of the Orioles’ organization in any secondary position, such as manager or as an assistant to Andy MacPhail or in some kind of support role of MacPhail. If he wants to make such a proposal, I’d like to hear about it.”

Semantics. Now KR is backpedaling. Well, Ripken said they discussed it and is excited about the future, but Angelos said he never offered his services in the White Knight manner only to be denied by Evil Angelos as KR proclaims. "Offer" is a much different word than "discussed". They may have "discussed" him eventually returning to the O's, but Ripken may not have "offered", after all, he said he was not ready to comeback until Ryan was finished with HS.

"The Orioles, thanks to MacPhail, actually are on the right path"

Thanks... finally a compliment about the direction of the team.

" Put up or shut up then. Hiring Cal Ripken to work for the Baltimore Orioles shouldn't be so hard."

I figured it out!! Wayne is Ken Rosenthal. First the incredible out pouring of love, support and blind admiration for him, then that snarky line!

Prediction:

The Orioles will win 20 to 25 games this year. Brian Matusz will be the winner of each and every one of those games, going on to win both Rookie of the Year and, obviously, Most Valuable Player.

Oh, crud. The real Shamrock and I agree on something. Maybe we are the same person.

hi, i'm smitty, shamrock, paulie, etc, etc... -
"I like to accuse people of things I am myself, I am good enough, smart enough, and doggone it! People Like me!"

Robert- funny you should use "snarky" too... the lunatics should feast on that, as now, we are clearly the same person. Way to keep them guessing! HA! And no, in sports journalism, you do not need to confirm sources. Sports journalists are basically gossip columnists.

smitty-

that was the thing about Cal. looking back, he was more myth than man. but he gave a great on field example for playing the game the right way. Where he and others of his era lose out is to the juiceballers that transformed what stats mean in MLB.

Maybe McPhail should discuss bringing Cal back as a defensive backup. His range and fielding skills can't be worse than Wiggington's.

BTW, I just watched 8 straight batters reach safely in the third.

cmon guys just cause you prove I'm wrong again doesn't mean I am

I am woman hear me roar in numbers too big to ignore

Shamrock,

totally agree on "story" by KR.

totally agree on Cal image vs. real.

Totally agree on "sports journalism" vs. "journalism". --consider effect of this paradigm on political journalism. consider too, slipper sloop of business journalism.

sorry to hear about being right of center.

Berggie, exit stage left....UGLY. Too many strikes...??

Who's getting called up??....

By myth you mean the over 400 home runs and 3,000 hits for a player who mostly played SS? That myth you ignorant douch?

look all, smitty/sham is now posting as Wayne. And he thinks he's not obvious. Shhhh

I guess I should feel honored that Wayne posted as me at 10:30. Every time he starts to lose an argument he starts the rude crude Wayne and then pretends he wouldn't do that....

Cal's OK I guess...never a favorite of mine...see Shamrocks post to see why simply adding a name to the front office means nothing...

Yes Wayne is Ken Rosenthal not Rahel Maddow it's all making sense now

Wayne....
time for "I never post as others. Just ask Peter"

let's see how pathetic he can be-

no cool guy, you forgot that I also post as Chris in HI, Ken, Robert, paulie, etc etc. . .

Yes, you are that pathetic. Cant talk baseball, have to create drama, then accuse others of doing what you do.

i can't be this stupid-

back to calling people names? good work. I believe we are referring to the same player, the one who grounded into the most double plays in ML history and hit below .260 7 out of 21 seasons. He revolutionized the position and hung on to get 3000 hits, but was a hindrance at times because he played with a bad back and knees and wouldn't be benched.

Chris in Hawaii | April 19, 2010 8:58 PM-

great post earlier Chris (wink-wink, I mean me!).

you can pretty much peg what the negative nellie's will say on the blogs or radio.

You are lucky you are 6 time zones away. Baltimore sports talk radio has gone completely to poo. 105.7's format is to let anyone with a voice box on air to spout off anything, which after retorted, usually ends with a sheepish, "Well, yeah, uhh, you're right, but the O's still need a closer. " (my drive home from work sucks, I can only listen to Pearl Jam CDs so many times)

To Rob K. and AngelOs: do you really think majority owners of professional teams (and their ownership groups) paid cash for their teams? It's like any other large purchase: the deal is financed, the buyers sign a note and put down only a small percentage of the sale price (which is why people like Angelos bring on minority owners; they assume some of the risk and contribute to the cash portion of the deal); the seller (because they did the same thing when they bought the team) pays of the remainder of their debt (i.e. the original note and any other debt associated with their ownership of the team) and is paid anything that's left over at settlement (or may even hold a note for a portion of the sale price, giving them a continued vested interest in the future success of the team -- which the buyers like -- while also giving them some recurring income -- with interest -- for several years after the sale, which helps defer their income from the sale so they don't take the tax hit all in one year).

This isn't brain surgery; it's basic finance that any home or car owner, or really anyone who works for a living should've learned in high school.

Posted by: Bernie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Except that I believe all of the major sports leagues have limits on the amount of leverage you can use to buy a franchise and the local celebs who are partners in the O's were more for window dressing to give a more prominent B'more look to the group to win an advantage over the other bidders. I think they each put up a million dollars which was a small part of the cash raise.

that was a nice diversion. can we now return to the business of striving for the worst mlb record of all time?

What would constitute as actually news is how Cal & Co strongarmed political, business, and community leaders in Aberdeen and surrounding areas of Harford County into putting the kibash on a Nascar Race Complex so his little Ironbirds, who perrenially ALSO suck wind, could operate in an air of exclusivity. Much like the way Cal did for much of his major league career. Separate entrance, separate flights. Separate agenda. What makes any of you acclaimed beat writer's think this same man, who by the way, was the leader on the worst team in team history, what makes you think any of this hogwash has anything to do with actually winning ballgames? This about business. He wants in so he can slowly loosen the Evil Baron's talons from franchise. Cal's presence, much like his presence on all those really bad Oriole teams of the late 80's and early to mid 90's, will have nothing to do about winning unless he can achieve the one thing surely ALL of Birdland deeply desires:Coaxing Abestos Pete into relinquishing his controlling interest. A job I fear, not even the IronMan can achieve!


"This isn't brain surgery; it's basic finance that any home or car owner, or really anyone who works for a living should've learned in high school."

Posted by: Bernie | April 19, 2010 9:13 PM


In high school I had to choose between taking Calculus and Sports Finance; obviously I made the wrong choice.

Bernie, if the sale of sports teams is such "basic finance" could you provide a source for us ignoramuses?


SHAMROCK,

Brooks Robinson is 72 years old, not 80.

Also, if Frank Robinson sucked as a manager, how would describe Dave Trembley's performance?

Frank Robinson managed the powerhouse Montreal Expos to winning seasons in 2002 and 2003, while the O's were in the midst of their 12-seasons-and-counting losing streak. He also managed the Nationals to 0.500 in 2005, again during the O's ongoing losing streak. So he's floated in and out of managing during the O's current losing streak and was able to achieve the unachievable with an extremely marginal franchise: 2 winning seasons and a .500 season.

Yup, he sucks alright. I'm certainly glad the Orioles opted to hire the likes of Dave Trembley and his esteemed predecessors instead.

Hey Bernie (madoff perhaps). I don't need any finance lessons.....that CPA exam wasn't too hard. I passd on thr firsy try.

Lucky & AngelOs nailed it. You have a limit on how much can be financed with the purchase of a MLB franchise. It's actually very similar to a home or car loan, as you suggest, in that you need to put down a certain amount/% in cash. Say the O's fetch $700million and require 10% down.

How much is that Bern Bern? Let me help you:

$700,000,000
x .10

= 70,000,000

That's 70 million Bern Bern. Think Cal has that in his Mid-Stae Federal savings account with Ms. Kitty? I doubt it. Hence, the big pocket CEO types like Mayo Molly-Shattuck. They bankrollthe deal, Cal is the face.

Is that detailed enough Bern Bern? I'm the last person you need to give financial advice too.

Hey Bernie (madoff perhaps). I don't need any finance lessons.....that CPA exam wasn't too hard. I passd on thr firsy try.

Lucky & AngelOs nailed it. You have a limit on how much can be financed with the purchase of a MLB franchise. It's actually very similar to a home or car loan, as you suggest, in that you need to put down a certain amount/% in cash. Say the O's fetch $700million and require 10% down.

How much is that Bern Bern? Let me help you:

$700,000,000
x .10

= 70,000,000

That's 70 million Bern Bern. Think Cal has that in his Mid-Stae Federal savings account with Ms. Kitty? I doubt it. Hence, the big pocket CEO types like Mayo Molly-Shattuck. They bankrollthe deal, Cal is the face.

Is that detailed enough Bern Bern? I'm the last person you need to give financial advice too.

Very Clintonesque analysis of a straight forward statement. It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.


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Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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