Pete

I don't see signing Bedard as a smart move for the Os. If he isn't ready until the All Star game or thereabouts, what would we do with him if our three young guys were all pitching well at the time. Would we really send one of them down to make room for him.
It would be a different story if one of our starters were a journeyman like Waters, or if Bedard were ready to go in April but that isn't the case here.

Can't say I'm surprised.

Thus continues a thoroughly unimpressive winter for the O's. Can an offseason really be considered successful if you only acquired players that no one else wanted?

I'm still expecting solid seasons from several of the young players, and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised at what the team gets out of Millwood and Tejada, but Andy really needs to step up his game next off season. His job should depend on a combination of the on-field results in 2010 and the moves he makes in the winter of '10-'11.

In my book, if MacPhail isn't successful on either of those fronts, he's fired.

freeman -

If your scenario arose, the O's could trade Millwood or Guthrie or send either of them to the pen. Or they could use a modified six man rotation, giving Bedard six or seven days of rest between starts. And that same thing could be done for Matusz, Tillman or Bergesen, depending on which one of them is wearing out towards the end of the season.

Having "too many" starting pitchers is a great problem to have.

not brooks

You may be right. It could qualify as one of those good problems you don't mind having.

Another thing that concerns me about Bedard though, apart from his injury, is that he never has gone very long. Even in his best season he barely averaged over 6IP per start. In fact, for his career his average is just 5.8 If my memory serves correct, he only averaged about five and a third in his 2 years in Seattle.

One possible problem with going with a 6 man rotation would be that you'd have to shorten the bullpen, maybe going with 6 guys instead of 7, or stay with 7 and shorten the bench. I can't say that I like either of those options.

If MacPhail doesn't sign Bedard I'd like to hear his reasoning. So what if he MAY not be available until mid-summer?! When mid-summer gets here, they may wish they had a Bedard to bring in and bolster the staff. He's still relatively young, so what about next year? They should sign him to a 1 year w/ a club option for a 2nd. You can never have enough pitching as the old saying goes.

Has MacPhail exceeded his "inventory" of pitchers and doesn't need any more? Ok, let's see it.

Another overly cautious move by MacPhail if he lets this happen without pursuing Bedard.

Okay, Bedard sounds like a no-go for the Os. What about Chien-Ming Wang? Or Jarrod Washburn? Noah Lowry? Heck, give John Smoltz a shot! A little more insurance for the roation could not hurt. Or, if we really want another former Oriole, Sidney Ponson is a free agent.....I can't believe I just said that. Seriously, though, we need another veteran pitcher to throw in the mix.

Beddard is damaged goods. Give the young guys a shot.

not brooks

I just took a look at the Os projected roster and what it would mean to have Bedard as a 6th starter.

Seems to me that since he usually doesn't go long, and you wouldn't want to be piling the innings on our 3 young guys in the rotation either, we'd have to go with a 7 man pen. If we did that then Scott is our full time DH against both right and left handed pitching. Are you okay with that.

Well, I would think if the Mariners sign Bedard for 1.5 million. They were the only team interested.

Honestly couldn't care less if he doesn't return and think it'd be a joke to yet again judge McPhail for not getting him back.

He's obviously not pitching a full season and it's a one year deal. If he goes lights out for 2 months, then he's someone to look at when he's a free agent all over again. The Mariners fell on the grenade to test him out for us.

Are you sure he said "shipload"? I have usually heard that expression with a different fourth letter, the one after the "i"...

Bedard would be nice to have, but more for 2011 than 2010. Seriously, the Orioles don't "need" another veteran starter for this year, they need to find out just what exactly they have with the younger guys. Well, if you really expected them to contend for the playoffs this year, then sure, but in that case they also "need" to have fewer question marks with their offensive production up and down the lineup.

Brooks-

You contradicted yourself. You called the off season unimpressive because they did not sign anyone that was wanted by others.

Who else is competing vs Bedard???

What good does he do for you? By the time he's back after the AS break, he gets shelled in his first few appearances, then straightens himself out in September, just in time to be a free agent again!!!! He's not marching on the field and going to be his usual 5 2/3's 9K 2ER 112 pitch self. Why sign him this year to do nothing, when they can get him next year?

Further... Who else wanted (your Lord and Savior) Matt Holliday??? Just the Cardinals.

There are no crazy bidding wars going on this off season. The economy sucks and clubs are conserving.

Need to get over the fact that MacPhail wasn't spending $120 mil on .310 27 98 and whatever other Bill James/UZR/Fan Graphs/BCS/Calculus stats.

The O's made chicken salad out of chicken sh!t this off season and positioned themselves to improve heading into next year when there are legit talents on the market. Still think they add a Lefty reliever.

The bullpen is going to be pretty tight this year and keep them in lots of games. The starters will go longer with the addition of Millwood and more experience. Fewer Meltdown starts keep them in games longer and build confidence. I think Atkins will do no worse than Aubrey Huff. Wieters is going to be big this year. Jones will be big (if he stops swinging at breaking garbage).

Oh, well, the Orioles will be one starter short for six months rather than four.

Does this make Bedard's departure from the Orioles official now?

Not Brooks,

Macphail is not going to change his approach, that should be pretty clear by now. He is going to live or die by "The Plan".

If the Orioles perform even slightly better this year{How can they not?} Macphail will say that "We are on the right track and we need to let things play out". If the Orioles don't improve he will say that "signing high priiced FA's is not the answer, the Orioles tried that before. The development of the young players is what we have to contnue focus on".

NB you know he is not going to jump into the FA market with both feet next year.

Millwood is going to do just fine, Tejajda will hit but will be dodging line drives at third and there is no reason to think that Atkins will reserrect his 2006 season, but is more likely to repeat his 2009 season.

Having "too many" starting pitchers is a great problem to have.
-------------
You left out a key word - "Quality". The Orioles have had too many pitches in camp hoping to find half decent ones and have failed over the last 10 yrs.

But having too many quality pitchers or players at any one position is a good thing for competition and for trading.

Bedard was never one to want the ball in big game situations. And when it was given to him, more often than not he pulled himself in the late innings. So do we really want him instilling that mentality with the young pitchers. He was a good pitcher for one year. All the best Erik!

Some of you guys are absolutely insane.. Bedard signing would be nice, but really, who cares. It's about seeing what you have this year and make the big splash in 2011.

Remember back in 05, the Detroit Tigers were horrible. They let Bonderman, Verlander, and Robertson go out and get smoked. However, they saw enough in those guys that the following year, they went out and signed Magglio Ordonez and Kenny Rogers, and ended up being a playoff team. You have to see what Matsusz, Tillman, Bergesen and Arietta can do before blocking these guys with injury prone players. If they dont do anything next year, then complain.

But hey, maybe MacPhail can go out and overpay for Vlad Guerrero, Bedard, and Delgado and some of you losers will be happy. You guys are nothing more than MMQB's who clearly do not understand how to build something from the ground up.

Bedard was never one to want the ball in big game situations. And when it was given to him, more often than not he pulled himself in the late innings. So do we really want him instilling that mentality with the young pitchers. He was a good pitcher for one year. All the best Erik!

freeman - If you're not excited about how six man rotation affects the rest of the roster, then you trade Millwood/Guthrie or move one of them to the pen. Problem solved.

Shamrock -

The O's have acquired:
- a 36-year-old shortstop to play third base
- a 30-year-old whose stats have been in constant decline since 2006 to play first base
- a 32-year-old closer who experienced injuries in '07 and '08
- a 35-year-old starting pitcher who had a 5.00+ ERA in '07 and '08

I'm 100% with you when it comes to excitement about the young players, but tell me how those four aquisitions are worth getting excited about.

I have no problem with the majority of people on here stating that not signing Bedard is not a bad thing for the O's. My 2 issues with the situation is:
1 - we never take a chance on an injured player. There could be potential steals for players that are coming off injuries. Sign them to a low base, incentive driven contract and the 2nd year could put you in a great position.
2 - I see many people on here stating that we should wait to next year when the free agent crop is better and McPhail can spend the money at that time. What makes you think that he would do that? I am not a McPhail basher but everyhing that he says is based on the right price for a player. I truly don't see him signing any marquee free agents.

Prima Donna Brattard? No thanks!

Mick -

Everyone here has an incredibly clear picture of what it means to build something from the ground up, as that is what Andy MacPhail has been doing for the past two and half years.

The disagreement here is that some people are totally fine with a pure rebuilding project where no legitimate stars are acquired until the kids win, while others would like to see the kids complemented by a few legitimate stars before they're not kids anymore.

Bedard has proved tht he can beat boththe Red Sox and the Yankees when he is healthy, something the young pitchers have been unable to do.

Ppl waiting for macfail to sign a legit FA will be waiting a long time

SImply put, his record indicates a clear unwillingness to do so. He has never spent more than 30 million on a FA

He will extend his own players but wont take a risk in free agency no matter how rich the team is he works for is. He didnt do it with the CUbs and wont do it with us

PPl deluded into thinking some big signing is coming next yr are in for some major disappointment

"Buy the bats" from macphail means buy the bargain, stop gap, retread bats that no one else wants

The Orioles will probably have the lowest payroll in the AL this yr.

U dont finish in the bottom of the leauge in payroll by signing good players in their prime, LOL

Slightly shocked too Smuckster, if it wasn't the Orioles. It makes way too much sense to bring Bedard back for a 2 ,maybe 2.5M incentive laden contract. He could provide great insurance come June for the rotation, which leads me to the question: When has an Orioles rotation that left spring training even remotely resembled the rotation that finished the season? Exactly!

Well let's see here.. AM resigned Markakis and Roberts.. Should he had let those guys go to pay for someone like Jason Bay or Matt Holliday? Give me a break.

Everyone complains how they need to sign all these big name guys.. Thats great and all, but howd it work out when The Orioles went out and spent all that money on Miggy, Javy Lopez, and the bullpen? Remind me again?

Look- With the young guys you have, you have a ton of talent.. The lineup is probably one middle of the order bat away from being one of the best in the AL. The fact of the matter is, you need to see what kind of pitching you have. Most good teams develop the arms from within- Example: Braves, Marlins, Twins, etc. You know what else they all have in common? They are competitive every year.

But I'm with everyone, I will also be pissed if they dont make a move next season to sign either an ace of the staff or a big time hitter in the lineup. Keep in mind, in a couple years, Jones, Weiters, Matsusz and company are going to be paid big time money as well. I know everyones jealous of the Yankees spending all this money, but keep in mind, tickets at Camden Yards arent $200 a pop either.

If Bedard isn't ready to pitch until mid-summer, he just doesn't make sense for the 2010 Orioles.

Maybe next year. But not this year.

Mick -

Well, let's see here... Andy resigned Markakis and Roberts and the payroll is still south of $70M. No one has ever said he should have let those two go in favor of free agents. It's that he should have resigned those two and then added premier free agents on top of them.

Oh, and when the O's spent money on Miggy, Javy and the bullpen, they had basically zero talent to complement those additions.

Before we get too far into "blaming" MacPhail for not siging Bedard, maybe we should have some idea of what the two sides discussed. Good luck getting either party to honestly divulge that. So if Bedard ultimately DOES sign with some team besides Baltimore it doesn't mean that it is for more guaranteed money, or more incentives than what the Orioles were willing to pay. What would be incredibly foolish would be to get into a bidding war over a guy who may NEVER be able to pitch as he did before his surgery, and who best case scenario is back to his old standards for maybe half a year this year.

And ya know, just maybe Erik liked it as much in Seattle as he did in Baltimore, and wants to give them another chance to make good on their investment in him. Believe it or not, some people would actually PREFER living and working in the Pacific Northwest to the Mid-Atlantic. Not to mention the fact that for 2010 the Mariners have a much greater chance of making it to the postseason than the Orioles do. Add it all up and it could be that the FREE AGENT Erik Bedard, you know, the guy who can CHOOSE WHERE HE WANTS TO GO could actually choose another offer even if Baltimore offered slightly more money.

How many of you guys who are screaming at the Orioles are going to say "never mind" if Bedard goes 3-5 with a 4.75 ERA in 12 starts this year?

Since no one knows when Bedard is going to be able to pitch, I've been amazed at the predictions that he would return by any date and pitch 6 healthy innings.

The willingness to sign for something before having thrown for anyone as an injuried FA doesn't indicate that you're ready to impress.

If Bedard isn't healthy enough to throw then the interest in signing him is based on what he looked like three years ago.

Before looking backwards, I'd give the innings to Tillman, Arreita, or Patton. This isn't about where we've been, but where we're going.

I'm wondering if Bedard ends up being a LH specialty reliever before it's all over. There are not a lot of quarentees when it comes to shoulder injuries, if Seattle wants to make an offer before seeing him on the mound, then I'd let them.

Brooks- I get it- But at some point, you need to find out if your talent translates into winning. Signing Bedard really makes no sense for the Orioles, THIS season. Next year, maybe. They also have aquired the young talent to make a deal if need be.

Now, please explain to me WHY the Orioles didnt have any talent when they spent that money? Maybe because they were signing a bunch of washed up players to bad contracts as opposed to aquiring young talent? Give it some time. They arent the Pirates, trading these players away as soon as they become players. They signed Markakis and are spending money in the draft. Finally things are being done the right way, and people still complain. I just find it funny.

If Bedard is going to be out for several months to start the season then I'm fine with the O's passing on him. If that's not the case, I think they should sign him but I don't know what his health is like now.

I didn't really see the point of signing Bedard in the first place. As several others have pointed out, we have a stable of starting pitchers that need to be tried out, and blocking them with a high-risk signing like Bedard doesn't make too much sense. I mean, if it were up to me, I would even think about dealing some of these hot prospects before the sizzle of their potential wears off (I'm talking about Bergesen and Tillman - Matusz I believe in), but if that's not in the cards then signing a guy like Bedard shouldn't be done.

Brooks -

When the Orioles were spending money and not winning, they were spending money on Marty Cordova, Steve Kline, Danys Baez, Jay Payton, old Rafael Palmeiro, Deivi Cruz and David Segui and their best "prospects" were Luis Matos, Sidney Ponson and Larry Bigbie.

Fans have been calling for the O's to sign guys like Mark Teixeira, Adam Dunn, Matt Holliday and Jason Bay. I think there's a big difference between those four and the guys in the previous paragraph.

And, really, the complaints are coming mostly because of Andy MacPhail's style. Be honest. Do you really believe that Andy is going to go all in and trade for a guy like Adrian Gonzalez when he wouldn't go cheap and trade for Kevin Kouzmanoff? Do you really believe that Andy will sign a guy like Josh Beckett when he wouldn't even make a run at Randy Wolf or Jon Garland?

Marty Cordova, Steve Kline, Danys Baez, Jay Payton, old Rafael Palmeiro, Deivi Cruz and David Segui (What is the difference between these guys, and the Randy Wolf's, Jon Garlands and Kouzmanoff's??)

Fans have been calling for the O's to sign guys like Mark Teixeira, Adam Dunn, Matt Holliday and Jason Bay. I think there's a big difference between those four and the guys in the previous paragraph.

I agree with that- But you spend all the money in the world on one of those guys, but if theres nothing around them, whats it matter. (Please see the Albert Belle signing)

My only point is, build the talent within. And when you are ready to strike, then sign the big free agents. I am sure the Tiger fans said the same crap about playing all their young guys (Granderson, Bonderman, Verlander, Easley, etc.) When you are ready to make that jump then sign a Rogers and Magglio type guy.

Marty Cordova, Steve Kline, Danys Baez, Jay Payton, old Rafael Palmeiro, Deivi Cruz and David Segui (What is the difference between these guys, and the Randy Wolf's, Jon Garlands and Kouzmanoff's??)

Fans have been calling for the O's to sign guys like Mark Teixeira, Adam Dunn, Matt Holliday and Jason Bay. I think there's a big difference between those four and the guys in the previous paragraph.

I agree with that- But you spend all the money in the world on one of those guys, but if theres nothing around them, whats it matter. (Please see the Albert Belle signing)

My only point is, build the talent within. And when you are ready to strike, then sign the big free agents. I am sure the Tiger fans said the same crap about playing all their young guys (Granderson, Bonderman, Verlander, Easley, etc.) When you are ready to make that jump then sign a Rogers and Magglio type guy.

For all those harping on MacPhail's uwillingness to sign a big $ free agent: He did offer Texeira $150 million/7 years to come to B'more, and when he got no response to that offer, which veered off the sacred path of the plan, he offered to up the price if Texeira wanted to pick up the phone.

Texeira was not interested in talking.

You have to have the right guy in your sights, and that person has to want to come here. There was no big FA on the market this summer who made undebatable sense for the Os and who wanted to come here and who wouldn't cost them too many of exactly the young players the team is building on: e.g., Jones, Arrieta, Bergesen, Tillman--all of whom have been inexplicably mentioned as expendable on this blog by one person or another.

Apparently, an offer was made to Holliday--not a guy I'd spend the money on--but he didn't want to come either, and after seeing what it took to sign him, I definitely would not want him.

The club has spent big on free agents in the past. Some worked out, but most didn't. I suspect that when they see a chance to whip the rest of the ALE, they'll spend for a marquee player who fills a need. I suspect that'll happen next off-season.

Meanwhile, we have a few marquee players of our own who will be hitting their strides this year and next: Jones (if he gets back to where he started last season and lays off that low-outside-slider crap), Wieters (who may well blow the lid off this year), and Matusz--just for starters--not to mention those like Roberts and Markakis who are already in the top ranks.

Let's see what they can do before we start switching the pieces around and invest a shitload (or shipload) of money in one FA.

not brooks -

I have to take issue with your implication that Atkins is a bad move because his stats have declined over the past 3 years:

Cal Ripken's stats were on a steady decline from 1983 to 1986. His BA and HR totals were down each year from '83-'86.

I guess we should have let him go as well because there was no way he was going to get any better - only worse.

Don't like the Cal example? how about Paul Molitor (about the same age as Atkins at the time) from 1987-1991: BA down each year, SB down each year, HR down each year. Molitor went on to make the All-Star team the next 4 years, finished in the top 11 in MVP voting 3 times during those next 4 years.

Just saying - let's not close the door on Atkins before he even takes one swing in an O's uniform.

not brooks

"freeman - If you're not excited about how six man rotation affects the rest of the roster, then you trade Millwood/Guthrie or move one of them to the pen. Problem solved."

Not really. As far as trading someone to make room for Bedard, you'd be in the position of trading someone who was healthy and pitching decently in favour of someone you'd have no idea how he was going to do until he got out there and put in the innings.

Putting someone in the pen also can be a problem. To my mind it can't be one of the kids. We want them to build up their arms so they can be innings eaters. We'd be defeating that purpose by having them throw just an inning or two at a time out of the pen.

That leaves just Millwood or Guthrie to do that to which could cause real dissention on the team. These guys have egos and it might not be pretty. There's also the question of what would happen if Bedard did poorly and you had to go back to one of those guys.

Macphail offered Tex 140 million not 150 million, please dont lie, it doesnt add credibility it takes it away

MacPhail offered Tex 140 million or 5 million LESS than he turned down from TX 3 yrs ago or 40 million less than he eventually got from the Yankees and 40 million LESS THAN THE NATS OFFERED

Citing Tex only proves how far away macphail really is from doing anything significant. To be outbid by the Yanks is one thing, but the NATS ? CMon

To the poster who mentioned the Tigers, they didnt wait to make a splash in the FA market, they did so right from last place. They signed Mags and Rogers in 04, 2 seasons b4 their WS appearence

None of this bs about being "closer to contending" That is just more BS from the outhouse to buy another yr on the cheap. Just another in a long line of excuses. U can put that right up there with we cant spend becasue we dont have our own RSN or we cant spend becuase they'll put a team into DC--They milked those for years

WE are looking at the lowest payroll in the AL this yr.

sorry, there's just no way to justify it when you ahve been in the top 5 in profits for the past decade to boot

Buh

(wait for it........)

DARD

As a correction: Mags was signed in 05, Rogers in 06. Regardless, they added guys when the time was right. They let the young guys develop and play.

As for not spending- They have been spending on the draft.. Hey, Matt Wieters gets taken 5th because the 4 teams in front of the Orioles didnt want to pay that money.

The real factor is, who the hell wants to play in Baltimore, when you can play in more desirable places like New York and Boston. Lets just face the facts. The Orioles are doing what they have to do, and I think we will all be pleasantly surprised how improved the team will be.

Are the same guys that are taking shots at how the Orioles are building this team, taking shots at how the Ravens have built theirs? If you recall, it took a few miserable season before the Ravens finally pieced it together.

HEY,HOW IS GLENN DAVIS DOING nOW?how about bringing in MIKE MUSSINA.

I like trying to add Bedard (O's do need another lefty), but if he does get away, the season isn't over and the sky will stay put.

not brooks,

more-or-less agree that this years progress and next years free agency will be better indicators of sucess or failure. Still though, given the amount of improvments he has installed in the orginization, I more likly to ask for his head in 2012...nobody's perfect right, and the O's haven't gone through the "sophmore slumps" or rashes of injuries.

(knock on wood)

Bring back Hayden Penn...he's due too!

The Orioles are spending on the draft ?

SO thats why they chose Hobgood over all of those other players last yr ?

In the interntaional scene, MN outbid the Os for Sano who is a SS and plays a position of need for the organization

What are the Os ranked in the money they spend on the amateur draft? I can tell u we have HALF of bostons budget for scouting

U make vague statements about what we are spending in the draft,. well what are we spending are where are we ranked compared to other teams ?

I can tell u this, we are probably going to have the LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE AL and Im sorry but all of the spin in the world cant make that right, esp when u r putting profits ahead of performance

where are these ppl coming from that prefer a cheap team to a successful one ?

Warehousers................

DO BETTER!

Warehousers................

DO BETTER!

Warehousers................

DO BETTER!

jason c,

still haven't figured out that money and winning are not mutually exclusive?

it's been posted time and again, but maybe the research will do you good.

In the last decade, how many teams that are top payroll teams won the World Series compared to bottom payroll teams.

profit and payroll do not = performance.

All the douchebag naysayers like Wayne, and non-douchebag naysayers like Jason, please tell everyone what the Orioles should do?

Sign every free agent imaginable and never develop any young players like years past?

Unfortunately, unless the Orioles offered Tex over 200 mil, he wasnt coming here and niether was Holliday. Whats your guys plan since you seem to know best??

Here come your 2010 Baltmore Orioles, with the LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE, despite being in the top 3 in profits from 2002-2007 and top 5 in 2008

They still dont have a legit power 30 HR hitter, ace SP or clean up hitter but no one in the AL has a lower payroll-WOOT WOOT

Last yr we were outspend by the likes of the royals,reds, and d-backs. This yr, we will be outspent by the A's and Twins too

But hey, there is no one out there that could help improve on a 12 season losing streak thats worth signing

Look Mick the D1ck called me a name

DOnt be crying when I call him a name back

mick the d1ck prefers a low payroll to a winning season--if thats not a dedicated fan, I dont know what is - LOL

Nothing worse than us fans who want the team to win, but I guess some d1cks like mick prefer to toil in ignorance and make excuses.

After all, we cant spend as much as the royals

If the Orioles don't go for Bedard then they are idiots, and they prove that this team will continue to fail for years to come. He is a potential #1 ace that's fairly young. Injury concerns are irrelevant, the team is bad, they have nothing to lose- and Bedard has a better chance to return to ace form after injury than any of these young guys have to become ace's. Once again nothing to lose, there is no cap, either you get an ACE, a decent pitcher, or a bad pitcher on an already bad team. (BTW I am pretty sure he had an ERA under 3.00 LAST year before injury)

AND IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH THAT THEN I WILL TURN INTO MY SMOKE FORM, GRAB YOU AND SLAM INTO INTO A WALL UNTILL I HAVE BORKEN EVERY BONE IN YOUR BODY.

C'mon guys, it was never about 2010!!!

Hahahahaha!

EJR -

You've got to be freaking kidding me.

Atkins hit .226 last year. From '06 to '09, his OBP dropped from .409 to .367 to .328 to .308. His SLG% dropped from .556 to .486 to .452 to .342. Outside of Coors Field, he's a .252/.324/.411 hitter.

From '83 to '86, Cal's average went from .318 to .304 to .282. His homers went from 27 to 26 to 25.

Even if you really think that's a big downturn, Cal turned 25 in 1986. Atkins is 30.

So no, I don't like your Cal example. Because it's absolute rubbish.

Moving on, you should have examined Molitor's career more carefully. A downturn from '87-'91? Hmm... He hit for a higher average, hit more home runs and stole more bases in 1991 than he did in 1990. And the guy hit almost 50 points above his career batting average in 1987. Was he supposed to maintain that? Oh, and he hit for a higher average in 1989 than he did in 1988. And his home runs went from 16 to 13 to 11 to 12 to 17. Doesn't look like fewer home runs each year to me.

Man, EJR, I sure hope you were joking about Ripken and Molitor.

If not, what's next? Are you going to bring up how Albert Pujols' was in a decline because his average (.353 to .331 to .330) and rbi (124, 123, 117) dipped each year from 2003 to 2005?

The ol "he just wouldnt come here" excuse

Never heard that one before

That ranks right up there with we cant spend cuz we dont have our own network or we dont know whats gonna happen with DC getting a team

d!cky micky is already talking about 2012 and its not even spring training 2010 yet, LOL

These outhousers never give up with the excuses. If only they were this dedicated to demanding a winning team

LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE

and teh apologists dont have a problem with it--its really about 2012 anyway -LMAO

Jason,

You be bill murray in this nightmare, and i'll be the groundhog.

It's the same lines they used over and over in 2009.

It's as if they're thinking..... 'hey guys, I got one, let's try saying - no one was going to come here anyway - that'll get em'.

Rise and shine campers........ it's going to be cooooooold out there.

Hey paulie

Have u figured out yet that there are plenty of holes on the roster that were available to be filled via FA and they only thing that they cost is money

I get it, u would rather keep the holes in the roster than cut into the profits, all apologists do

why sign Free agents when they could improve the team?

Its really about keeping payroll down, I know thats why i watch the games on tv every nite.

Why sign players in their prime when there are washed up retreads to be had on the cheap

DOnt want to drop out of the top 5 in profits now do we ?

jason c,

all bark, no bite.

break it down for us...who was to be acquired...who are these mysterious Free Agents...

I'll save you guys the trouble...

jason: Matt Holliday!
paulie: Too expensive. And what about Reimold?

jason: Ben Sheets!
paulie: Didn't pitch at all last year. You wanted to pay $10M for him?

jason: Jason Bay!
paulie: Reimold.

jason: John Lackey!
paulie: Missed the beginning of the season each of the past two seasons. You wanted to give him more than five years, $82.5M?

jason: Chone Figgins!
paulie: He was never leaving the west coast. Besides, did you want to pay him more than 4/36?

jason: Adam LaRoche!
paulie: He can't hit lefties!

How did I do, fellas?

Jason C- perhaps its not about 2012 either , or perhaps never , LOL

As for poster saying the ' Os spent on the draft ' comment

When Cuban Lefty SP , Arnoldis Chapman was available , Did Os make any effort at all ?
Answer : No , MacCheap got outbidded by Cincinnati Reds , yes , the REDS !

Memo to MacCheap : if you want talent , you gotta ' show them the money '

not brooks,

pretty good.

we really are that bored for "something" huh?

paulie - I might actually go crazy if the season doesn't start soon.

Allan - Way to use the case of an international free agent to try to say that the O's haven't spent money on the draft.

paulie

Ive posted a dozen times what I think we should do.

Wahts the point anyway

the easiest thing to do is come up with excuses for why something shouldnt be done.

the outhouse has been doing if for yrs and apologists like you are right there like sheep to mimic the same pathetic excuses ad nauseum

I mean there isnt anyone out there to possibly improve on a 98 loss team, just cant be. Its not like we lost 12 seasons in a row becasue the players stunk or anything LOL

Its nearly impossible to find someone better than the guys who finish in last place 40 games out of 1st place

Not Brooks- My mistake , I should have used Jason C's Hobgood example on Os spending on the draft

As for International signings , Jason's Sano and my Chapman examples are further proof Os arent too motivated to spend on that department either

jason c,

it's probably easier to catagoriclly hate and rant without providing any substance and calling people names. since substance can be debated, but hate is just hate, and name calling is attacking the messanger and not the message.

Pete, Street is mistaken about this. He needs to check his sources more closely, because according to Bedard, "No one's made a concrete offer." However, Street is correct about there being interest.

The Bedard quote is actually more current than Street, who posted last night. Bedard was interviewed this morning by Seattle News Tribune's veteran Larry LaRue (see link below). However, while the two sides obviously are not close (kind of tough if there hasn't been a contract offer), the interest is very high and I'd have to say, judging from Bedard's remarks, that as long as the Mariners make a reasonably attractive offer, they have another lefty (and potentially the makings of one of the most dominant rotations in the majors).

The Mariners seem to be Bedard's first choice and I'm not sure the Orioles can offer enough to get him back without paying more than I imagine they'd want to do.

But it they want another veteran arm in the rotation, thre are plenty of them out there.

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2010/02/04/bedard-on-mariners-id-love-to-be-back/
....................................
GregA, Bedard didn't shy away from "big game situations". Please, quit recycling such fiction as it has no foundation in reality whatsoever.

Bedard has his shortcomings (as we all do), but let's not add to the list phantom faults.
....................................
not brooks, As for you questioning the excitement we should have from the four newest Orioles, you're spinning the four to make them seem next to worthless:

- a 36-year-old shortstop to play third base
- a 30-year-old whose stats have been in constant decline since 2006 to play first base
- a 32-year-old closer who experienced injuries in '07 and '08
- a 35-year-old starting pitcher who had a 5.00+ ERA in '07 and '08

While I agree that each of them have unexciting aspects, the glass can just as easily be viewed as half-full as well with them. For example:

- the 36-year-old shortstop was an All-Star and among National League leaders in several hitting statistics last season (Transition to third not a big deal)
- the 30-year-old has hit very productively in the past and has a very respectable .289 lifetime BA- (his decline was slight except for '09 and, again, is only 30)
- a 32-year-old closer with a power arm who has a career ERA of 2.57 and 10.6 SO/9IP; potentially dominant (last year's performance indicates he's past the injuries)
- a 35-year-old pitcher who has a liefetime .562 ERA winning percentage, haas been named an All-Star. won an ERA crown, had the best WHIP another year and pitched to the eight-best ERA among American League starters ('07 and '09 numbers reflected less-than-stellar conditioning; when called on the carpet by Rangers president Nolan Ryan, he got in shape and had improved stats)

Above all, these additions need to be viewed in context. With the exception of Gonzalez, none of them are signed for more than one year guaranteed. So, it's not like they're locked into the Orioles' future plans.

Granted, the level of excitement isn't what it would be if the Orioles had hauled in Teixeira, Sabathia, Burnett and Swisher, but the O's weren't going to be able to sign players of that caliber this offseason.

If one don't get all whinny, but looks at what MacPhail's been able to do with reasonable expectations, then this offseson has to regarded as a qualified success.

Certainly, this year's deals are better than what O's fans have come to expect and if those four can play the way they're capable of playing, then the Orioles will be an improved team.

paulie, R u on crack or something

I dont rant, I post macphails record and the Os payroll. I dont need to rant because the numbers prove my point for me

ORIOLES HAVE THE LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE AL and are one of the most profitable teams in the game despite a 12 YEAR LOSING STREAK

U try to defend the indefensible

It doesnt work

Wayne,

People take themselves so seriously on these Oriole blogs. Mostly though, it's the same arguments from both sides day after day, night after night.

You also give a similar argument, one that's pretty negative towards the Orioles. But you do it with humor and sarcasm, and I have to tell it, it's really quite funny. I know, I admitted to Wayne that he's funny. Come after me now everyone who hates Wayne.

Not Brooks is the reliable stat guy, Gil is the reasonable one, Jason is the angry one, (fill in the blanks) are the just happy to have a teams guys, and Wayne, well you're pretty angry as well. But you are a funny F.

Jason c--

Excuse me for misremembering what the first offer on the market was for Teixeira. You can call it lying if it makes you feel better.

So, OK, $140 million.

Doesn't matter. He didn't respond. Period.

What do you want MacPhail to do? Bid against himself?

Which he eventually did, basically saying, Name a number, Tex.

Still no response.

Not brooks--

Thanks for breaking it down on the less-than-impressive 2009 FAs.

paulie,

The warehouse is disappointed dude. You offer the same thing over and over, and when someone answers your question, you ask them the exact same question 2 days later.

If the warehouse notices this, what do you think people checking out the blogs think? You have to at least attempt to keep up the cred. Isn't that warehouse rule 101?

Seriously, you either need to step up your game, or begin signing in under a different name again. It may be the only way those signing your checks will allow you to continue.

I'm not attacking, not calling names.... none of that. Instead, I'm just trying to help a brother out.

Guys - signing players to big contracts does not guarantee a winner.. see the New York Mets.
The Yankees of the mid-late '90s where also not built on big name free agents, as a matter of fact when they started to throw crazy money around, it took them 9 years to win another title. They won on the shoulders of their young core mixed with some quality players like Tino Martinez, Scott Brosius, Paul O'Neill, etc... when they started to outbid people for "name guys" like Giambi, Mussina, Kevin Brown, they ignored what got them 4 titles in 5 years... and caused them to become the high-priced disappointments that they were for the last decade.
Payroll is just a number, worry about the talent we have and not how much we are paying them. Once this team proves it's potential, players will want to come here again. Overpaying and being used to jack up offers from other clubs was how we got into this mess 10 years ago. I know this "plan" is not the popular choice, but at least it's a direction the club has decided to take, unlike the last decade where we were eternally "half-Pregnant"...

Bedard would fit this team like a glove. Give him a better incentive contract than Seattle until he shows he is back in form. He still has 100 wins left in him. He is a pitcher who knows how to pitch. He doesn't change his demeanor when facing a good or a bad team. He is good for 7 innings a start. He doesn't like being fondered or chided by the media hounds who called him the "Ace of the Staff." He doesn't act smug. He is not a leader team leader but he is a pitcher who bets against you that you can beat him. I would rather have a pitcher tell me that he is gassed than have one that says nothing and gives up the lead. He is much like Koufax when he is on. Get him back.

Bedard would fit this team like a glove. Give him a better incentive contract than Seattle until he shows he is back in form. He still has 100 wins left in him. He is a pitcher who knows how to pitch. He doesn't change his demeanor when facing a good or a bad team. He is good for 7 innings a start. He doesn't like being fondered or chided by the media hounds who called him the "Ace of the Staff." He doesn't act smug. He is not a team leader but he is a pitcher who bets against you that you can beat him. I would rather have a pitcher tell me that he is gassed than have one that says nothing and gives up the lead. He is much like Koufax when he is on. Get him back.

wouldn't it be funny if boog powell pitched??

I'd love to see Charlie Liebrandt in the Orange & Black!

$1.5Million, you've got to be kidding me! This is Birdland, they would never make such an offer! The M's are playing to win, why wouldn't he take less to play in Seattle versus going to a gun fight with a knife with the O's.

I hear Jamie Moyer can be had, he's a lefty, over the hill and unwanted, just the O's kinda guy. If they wait another 3 weeks even he may not be available, but then again we just got Dennis Sarfate back! Yipee!

85-95 losses! Can't wait til next year, or is the year after next year?

Same old, same old in Birdland!

Hey!!!! We signed Joel Guzman. I new we had some dough from that MASN deal left in the coffers.

Hey Jason C,

Dude- apparently you got nothing better to do than repeatedly and emphatically say that the "O's have the lowest payroll in the American League"? First of all, WE DO NOT- NOR HAVE HAD- the "lowest" payroll in the American league! Perhaps you're trying to be facetious?

Now obviously we're not in the upper half right now, but we have been. And I'm not saying we will be. But comon dude, seriously! It's getting old. What are you hoping to accomplish?

We all want O's to spend more, but more importantly- WIN MORE, but IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME! Yes, I am a believer in the MacPhail plan. Patience!

O's are going to be one of the bottom 3 in payroll in the AL. AND one of the bottom 5 in all off baseball. RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, what is the McPhail plan? Thought we were supposed to buy some bats? Maybe he meant, y'know, bats, like the cave dwelling type, to keep all the empty seats company this year?

"You offer the same thing over and over, and when someone answers your question, you ask them the exact same question 2 days later."

wayne | February 4, 2010 7:32 PM

if that isn't the Pot calling the Kettle black, I dunno what is.

heh, he's got you there Wayne.

but at least Wayne's redundancy makes sense and is backed by 12 FREAKING YEARS OF PROOF!!!!!!

why are all of you so angry? Its just a baseball team?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY6k50qB4Ys

and Jason, do you really think the Yankees are operating at a loss every year? You really like to cling to that Forbes article as if is it true. Its all an estimation. Baseball team financial data is not public information.

But whatever, your'e right. In Northern Baltimore County Peter Angelos is is rolling in a big pile of bird bucks purposely running his team into the ground.

you're right, it's not my fault - it's greedy petey's

If you ignore me I will walk right up to you, karate chop you in the neck, knee you in the face and pick up your limp body and carry you on my shoulder.

"Bedard was never one to want the ball in big game situations."

How would anyone know that?

What "big games" has he ever had an opportunity to pitch?

Just another example of someone believing that they know and understand the mental makeup of Erk Bedard and concluding an opinion even though they have absolutely no information to support it.

People have been doing the same thing with Mora, Tejada, and before them, Alomar.

The media is great at putting the power of suggestion in people's heads, isn't it ?

I just can't believe how many otherwise intelligent people fall for it.

The season needs to start sooner than scheduled if we're going on 90 posts about not signing bedard. Signing him would be nice, not signing isn't a biggy.

241 Days remaining

I was hoping the Os would sign Bedard if for no other reason than they would have Bedard, Miggy and all the players they got for Bedard and Miggy two years ago in spring training in 2010. That would have to be some kind of coup for AM.

"Bedard has proved tht he can beat both the Red Sox and the Yankees when he is healthy, something the young pitchers have been unable to do" - cWebber

I guess the operative word here is "can" because Bedard only did it once -- 2007 when the O's went 3-0 against NYY and 2-0 against BOS in games he started.

That year Bedard went 13-5 while the O's were 19-9 in games he started before he became a part-timer again.

Lifetime (even with 2007 included), BAL/SEA are 5-7 against NYY and 6-7 against BOS in Bedard starts (2-7 and 4-7 before and since).

Even in that wonderful year everyone clings to so much, Bedard only averaged 6.5 innings per start -- that's when he was healthy and when he is at his best.

His one and only complete game ever was that year.

Bedard did bat .400 in '07 with one RBI so maybe as a bat off of the bench ... buwahahahahahahaha ... it's gonna snow cats and Bedards

Left-handed studs do not grow on trees. Nothing to lose, everything to gain. They should have signed him.

See the thing is that wayne and jason and the others who take a cynical/realistic tack have claimed the high ground through repetition and belittling. Then they defend their belittling by just saying it's the truth. It is basically bully rhetoric, but unfortunately it works.

Really I have to give credit to them for their perseverance. That is what has allowed them to overall win influence on this blog. Just sad when poor rhetoric wins the day.

That said, their frustration is well-earned. The constant losing has justified jadedness and cynicism. The Orioles have a lot to prove, and they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. It's true that Tex wasn't going to come here, so "you can't blame AM." But you can blame the organization as a whole because they allowed things to get to this point where bonafide FAs don't want to come here.

The only way out is building from within-- the Plan-- or PA selling the team. I hope the Plan works, but I hope even more that PA rides off into the sunset. This chapter on the Baltimore Orioles has his name on it, and it needs to be long forgotten.

Influence on a blog? really? bow down to them? its a blog! i like that they post what they post because if i remember to look at the poster's name first and its there's i skip it cause i know what it says...they ain't exactly the kings of originality...and if i don't look at the names, i know who it is one sentence in and then i skip...so yes, i've been influenced to get through the postings faster.

I don't know how close you pay attention herb, but wayne is the king of telling folks to stand up to PA, then doesn't do it himself...he'sgiven the reason and its cool, but its weak.

jason c in s fla is correct, the Os have a low payroll...no kidding! At least he makes suggestions on how to up the payroll, although i don't think they're always the wisest as he probably wouldn't think mine are the wisest.

But most figured this out weeks ago BECAUSE THEY POST THE SAME THING EVERY TIME!

Have a nice day

"Left-handed studs do not grow on trees." - Fang Guy

Yup. Too bad Bedard is not a stud. Then I would agree with you.

Bedard has one complete game. TOTAL. EVER.

Andy Pettitte had eight SEASONS with more than one complete game. So did Jimmy Key. David Wells had 12 SEASONS with more than one complete game.

Erik Bedards's best season by innings pitched was four years ago with 196 1/3 innings. Pettitte, Wells and Key did better than that ten, nine and eight times, respectively.

Bedard is NOT a stud. He was very good -- and only very good -- at his best. And those days are in his rearview mirror.

There is no upside to having him cluttering up the 40-man roster.

Addendum: Do you know what two left-handed pitchers had more complete games for the Orioles than Erik Bedard?

No, not Dave McNally and Mike Cuellar. That would have been too easy. They, too, were studs.

Sid Fernandez and Bruce Chen.

Yup. They had more complete games as an Oriole than Bedard.

It doesn't take a genius to know that Tillman will not be ready for the ML in 2010. Whether they force him to be or not, he just isn't that good yet. Bedard should have been a back up plan, because McPhail should have signed a #1 or #2 pitcher in Ben Sheets. Team could've won 80 with Bedard & Uehara waiting to contribute down the final stretch when shoulder injuries occur and fatigue sets in on the regular starters.
#1-Millwood, (_#2 ???_),
#3-Bergesen, #4-Matusz,
#5-Guthrie

For those jerks who like to say "oh, it's just baseball, why are you so angry" - try being a business owner around the stadium suffering because of the ineptitude of the O's and Peter. It's more than baseball to many. It's livelihood, it's family, it's life. Peter has robbed us. And he continues to do so every month on your cable bill.

Hey dspedden,

I don't know about the Bedard sitaution but I do think that Tillman should start the year in the bullpen and work on a third pitch plus his command. I thought the Orioles could have picked up Rich Harden or Randy Wolf in addition to Millwood.

I don't like the idea of sending three green pichers out to take their lumps every 5th day. Work them in over time. But, that's "The Plan" which is to suck until we stop sucking, whenever that is.

Macpahil's experiment will go forward as the Orioles are planning to lose again. Attendance will go down again and the True believers will continue to sing Hosannas about Macphail again.

It's almost Spring in Baltimore again and the excitement for another 90 loss season is building because "the kids" are at the yard.

Jason C. in Florida, I get your point. Angelos and Macphail are cheap. But that's "The Plan" which is not to invest in marquee Fa's until the team no longer sucks, and the "time is right" whenever that is.

When do the Ravens report to camp?

Has anybody ever thought that bedard just didnt want to come back here? He never exactly looked thrilled to be in an O's unifom on 70 win teams.

Bonjour,

$1.5 million is chump change for a starting lefty, even for one as injured as moi. Andy MacPhail could've at least made a decent offer, but he apparently did not. C'est la vie!

Herb, the truth is not rhetoric, its the truth.

WE all know that the apologists hate the truth, so they resort to excuses and lies.

Its the apologists who cling to rhetoric becuase even the most staunchest apologist cannot defend the fact that we will have the LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE THIS YR all while raking in HUGE profits at the expense of performance on the field

I often wonder if ppl who rush to AM's defense ever bothered to look at this record in CHicago, so I took the trouble of posting it. AM was criticized in Chicago for losing out on players by leaving money on the table. AM ran a very profitable ship in CHicago, but he only won the division once but lost over 94 games 5 times (losses= 94,95,97,95,96) in a 12 yr stretch. AM categorized his own performance as a "failure"

There is a myth that apologists love to propogate about a big FA next yr--WILL NOT HAPPEN . U ahve been sold a bill of goods by a con man and I cant wait to hear the excuses next yr and believe me they are coming. When are u going to get tired of the lies ?

Herb, Id love to take credit for influencing ppl but I ahd nothing to do with it. fortunately, most O's fans are too perceptive to lap up any more horsedoody from the outhouse.

Even the most casual fan knows we shouldnt be outspent by the kansas city friggin royals.

Jim W,

when the salary numbers are released (barring another major signing) the OS WILL HAVE THE LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE" Im not being facetious

Last yr only TB,MN, and OAK spent less in the AL, they will pass us this yr

The O's have had the WORST ERA IN BASEBALL for years.

year ERA MLB Rank
2009: 5.15 - 30th
2008: 5.13 - 29th
2007: 5.17 - 29th
2006: 5.35 - 29th

and all the apologists want to deny this fact. I'm the only one that gets the "truth". Everyone else is on crack. I'm right, and your analysis and excuses are child-like.

and AM still has young un-proven talent in the rotation. think it's gonna get any better this year. NOPE. LAST AGAIN in ERA.

get ready, because 2010 is the 5th season at the bottom of ALL BASEBALL. I'm not being facetious.

The Nationals, KC, and Pittsburgh all finished with better team ERA's. Anyone that thinks that's okay is a loser.

...have fun today as we bunker down for the snow. I love the snow, and this year has been super cool with mass dumpings.

jason -

I'm not trying to argue that the O's shouldn't be spending more, but I'm not sure how relevant it is that KC may pass us in team payroll this season.

The Royals are spending over $40M on Gil Meche, Jose Guillen, Kyle Farnsworth, Yuniesky Betancourt, Rick Ankiel, Jason Kendall, Willie Bloomquist and Scott Podsednik. Matt Wieters has more talent in his left pinky toe than all of those guys combined.

And I seriously doubt Oakland is going to pass us, unless something drastic happens. According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, the A's still have a bunch of one year deals to figure out on guys under team control: 14 in all. Even if each of those guys gets bumped up to $600K, which is highly unlikely, the A's 2010 payroll would be ~$58M.

The O's current payroll is ~$65M, and they've still got 11 one year deals to figure out. Not seeing how the A's could possibly pass the O's this season.

Oh, and depending on what happens with Guthrie and the rest of their young players, the O's could actually jump past the Rays (~$66.5M as of today) as well.

Again, I'm with you. The O's should be spending a lot more money. But things aren't exactly as you say they are.

PS - Cot's is a great source for any and all contract info.

okay, I'll "apologist" right now. I'm not really trying to be quite so scornful, but at times, clinging to one fact might not be the best indicator of future performance.

Further more, taking a single fact and drawing conclusions on the mind state or motives of the Organization or individuals is not called "fact" or "truth"...it's called speculation and assumption. The fact may be correct, but the conclusion can be erroneous...doesn't mean that folks dis-agree with the fact...just the conclusions.

seriously, not really trying to be an ass, just a little tired of the same-ol' "I'm right, your an ass and a less than human person" rhetoric.

I'm not claiming I'm right all the time (that'd be Pete's job), just saying. we know the answer is 4, but it could 2+2 or 3+1, or 1+3 as the equation.

Well, I'm finally slow enough at work because of the impending snow to be able post (or maybe a nerve was finally hit - who knows).

Jason C -

I really hope you are right about us having the lowest payroll in the AL this year, because otherwise your constant (ALL CAPS) lines about it will be for naught. Can I make a request? If we aren't, can you promise to retire the caps lock? Mostly I am with you, but seeing that 6 times a day is going a little overboard. I agree that we need to spend more, but it just isn't going to happen this year. Maybe it will next year (I'm not holding my breath), but until then, all we can do is speculate. I'd love to see a big bat and/or arm as much as everyone here, but when there's nothing left but scraps on the table, all the capital letters in the world aren't going to help us out.

end rant (and sorry for my first post not being more constructive)

12 FREAKING YEARS OF SPECULATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIEVES AND LIARS!!!!!!

Waaaaayyyyyynnnnnneeeeee,

How can the madness ever be stopped?

You're leaving Jason, Gil and a couple others to do all the heavy lifting. The warehousers are using so many names, and posting so often, it's made to appear people are satisfied with what's going on.

We all know they are a significant minority however. Where you been?

wayne -

Hurry back. I think doug has a crush on you. You haven't posted anything for about 17 hours and he misses you already.

dude, the O's and Petey are pulling the wool over your eyes.

Bergesen,

I find it interesting how Bergesen is slated to be such an impact starter for the Orioles. Maybe he will, and that would be great. But he was never one of the glowing prospects, and was brought up on a needed basis last year. Then, low and behold, he did a terrific job.

But are we not jumping the gun a little? He's as high as the # 3 starter on the major league club?

Not that I put tremendous stock in how prospects are rated, but there's probably a reason he wasn't highly thought of going into 2009. I certainly believe clubs will adjust to him, and don't forget, he's coming off of a pretty significant injury. Sure, he feels fine now, but the guy hasn't pitched in a pretty long time.

To have him penciled in as the Orioles # 3, behind a pretty shaky # 2, behind a less than stud # 1, not to mention he'll be followed by 2 rooks, sure seems risky, at best. This could be a very, very long season.

paulie= shamrock = bf

Wow Schmuck, looks like Nestor and his cronies have taken over your blog. Just using different names.

doug -

Bergesen's got fantastic control and a terrific ground ball rate. He doesn't strike out many hitters, but still put up a 3.5 K/BB ratio in the minors because he walked just 89 in close to 500 innings.

He's not going to light up the radar gun and he'll give up his fair share of hits, but he doesn't give away base runners and he doesn't allow many home runs (0.6 HR/9 in the minors, 0.8 HR/9 in the majors).

All of that said, I don't think he's going to be a top of the rotation guy by any means, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he put up a 3.75-4.00 ERA and won 12-15 games in 2010.

It's not unreasonable to expect growing pains, especially because of the leg injury, but he's 100% going into spring training, so I doubt the leg will be much of an issue at this point, especially since it was a fracture and not a muscle/tendon/ligament injury.

not brooks

Honestly if the Os finish anywhere near the bottom in payroll, its a friggin disgrace that cannot be excused.

Any true fan should be enraged that a rich team like the O's chooses to spend so little in the product on the field with all of the gaping holes that have been neglected for so long, but the apologists make it easy for them to dupe the avg fan

Idk how anyone who honestly calls themself a fan is OK with the team being in the top 5 in profits while simultaneously being in the bottom 5 in payroll Seems deranged

(bold for the whiners who cry about all caps)

Its funny all caps bothers ppl who call themselves Os fans, but the fact that the team plays them for suckers-- not so much. Ignorance is bliss, I guess

Its no guarantee that the Os be at the very bottom, but anywhere NEAR the bottom is an atrocious disgrace that should anger even the most fervent apologist, but apologists really dont care about winning, they only care about a low payroll. Strange priorities.

Os top 5 in proftits lest ye forget

75 wins is a cause for celebration for the KoolAid drinkers. After all, its "improvement"

Getting angry and "hating" as they put it (though how the heck that became a verb is yet another indication of how Orwell's prediction about Newspeak continues toward realization) accomplishes nothing. Anyone who thinks anyone in power (i.e. MacPhail, Angelos) gives a flying foul ball about what's said here is entertaining severe delusions of grandeur. To quote the Bard, all "sound and fury signifying nothing." So what can you do? Start a "Get Rid of Angelos" Facebook page? Maybe post a YOUTUBE video featuring all the post-haters singing a 1985 Chicago Bears style rap about why the Orioles need to spend more money? Well, maybe...Join that guy who keeps having rallies that remind me of old Oscar winning films based on stage plays (12 Angry Men) outside Oriole Park demanding we boycott the team? Yeah, that's been SO effective. No, there's nothing for it but to hope, pray, and back the team, because that's what good fans do. Personally, I think Andy has done everything that can be done given where we are in this long-term strategy. The free agent crop will be exponentially improved this coming year and we'll have the dollars set aside to pay for the players we want...should they want to play here. Believe it or not, we have paid out significant dollars in the past for free agents...and not exactly with stellar results (see Albert Belle). I think the best thing to do is to encourage dollar investment into the farm system, into international scouting, and toward acquiring that "impact" player we still lack (as I've said in this blog before, we haven't had an Eddie Murray on this team since...Eddie Murray). Beyond that, all the sarcastic comments and rampant negativity that is spewed on this blog will likely only be useful to psych students who are developing papers or clinical trials delving the mental health issues of people who post ad nauseum on blogs. Go O's!

Doug

I stand to be corrected, but I think Bergesen was the Os minor league pitcher of the year two years ago, so his ML success shouldn't be a total surprise.

Bergesen was brought up due to injury, but I think a lot of people were surprised that he didn't break with the club considering his spring last year. like not brooks said, he won't light it up, but every rotation needs a consistent strike thrower like him. I hesitate to call him "Maddux-lite", but the similarities are there. I'm much more concerned about which Guthrie is the real one (2008 or 2009) and whether the other youngsters can turn into legit major league pitchers instead of just prospects. I think Matusz has a bright future, but I worry a bit about the others from time to time.

RichD=bf=shamrock=paulie

If you want to know where the general public stands, check the stands every night. This team could've drew 4 million people at one point if camden yards was large enough to hold them

I doubt that disgruntled fans need to exaggerate their numbers

Maxmorf

"Anyone who thinks anyone in power (i.e. MacPhail, Angelos) gives a flying foul ball about what's said here is entertaining severe delusions of grandeur" and "Beyond that, all the sarcastic comments and rampant negativity that is spewed on this blog will likely only be useful to psych students who are developing papers or clinical trials delving the mental health issues of people who post ad nauseum on blogs."

Well said.

maxmorf,

Spoken like a good little apologist. One who wants ppl to sit down and shut up while greedy petey rakes in the profits. For every quote that promotes apathy, u can find one that says the opposite

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

top 5 in profits

bottom 5 in payroll/standings

Now I remember why I only lurked and never posted before - simply suggesting that a dead horse has been beaten labels me as a whiner and crier.

I'm not saying that I even disagree with you - we should be spending more money since it's there to be spent and the fanbase is begging for a team to stand behind. However, it's hard to take anything else you say seriously when you state something so absolutely in caps that it turns out might not be so absolute (see not brooks post from 11:41). I usually reserve the internet equivalent for yelling for when I am undeniably right, but to each his (or her) own. Otherwise, I'm totally behind you - I find it pretty ridiculous that we can be fielding a team with a payroll at least middle of the pack. The money is there, and the free agents have been too

Jason: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"...Nice quote, from Edmund Burke, was my father's campaign motto when he ran for House of Delegates in the 70s. My question to you is...do you consider posting on this blog "doing something"? And are Peter Angelos and Andy MacPhail "evil"? Funny, I don't recall their names coming up during the Nuremberg Trials...Finally, I'm not an apologist, just a realist. It's something that happens to you when you finally hit puberty and grow up and that, to quote Stephen Colbert, is today's WORD! P.S. Thanks Anonymous, appreciate the support!

maxmorf gave himself an attaboy

maybe the people talking to themselves are the ones in need of psychiatric treatment

Anonymous

Actually, that was me who agreed with maxmorf. Leaving my name out was unintentional. My bad.

jason -

Do you really think you're doing something?

All you do is post and repost the same bit about payroll/profits over and over again.

How many people do you think frequent this blog? 500? 1000? How many do you think actually take time to read all of the comments? 50? 75?

And do you seriously believe that the Warehouse has someone monitoring what we talk about here? Seriously? And if you're delusional enough to believe that, haven't you realized by now that they don't care?

You're not doing anything, jason. None of us are. We're a bunch of angry/sad/bored fans bickering about our favorite team.

If you really want to do something, get your friends together, take your arguments to Sarasota and start a protest. Since you're in South Florida, you can't be much more than four or five hours from the O's Spring Training Complex.

Spouting off on a blog is nothing, jason. Wayne proved that point when he went to FanFest and didn't even attempt to speak out at the MacPhail/Trembley Fan Forum.

PS - The Edmund Burke quote is a little melodramatic.

Anyone that has realized that there won't be any news until the season starts but wants their O's fix http://mlbbonusbaby.com/ has a good writeup for the june draft on the o's. I'm an off season nerd for most major sports so i enjoyed the read.. Just scroll down its on the main page.

maxmorf

You're welcome. I've said the same a few times before. There isn't a GM in any sport who would let blog comments affect what they thought they ought to do. That's assuming they'd even read the blogs which I doubt.
The only way for the dissatisfied to make their point is to stop buying tickets, tee-shirts and caps etc. Money talks, bullsh*t walks.

maxmorf

so the only qualification for evil is found at the nuremeburg trials ?

pol pot says thx

i think you're choking too hsrd on that silver spoon from mommy and daddy to fabricate a lucid thought

anyway, yeah I do consider posting on this blog as doing something.its called posting on a blog. thats waht blogs are for. LOL

its certainly not much, but some of us have to work for our living

u should see all of the lies apologists use to justify your boy angelos desecration of my beloved birds. Someone has to fill this blog with actual facts like:

Top 5 in Profits

Bottom 5 in payroll

to keep the lies at bay

I see youre one of the dopes that beLIE we're suddenly going to spend next yr. I hope that youre man enough to eat your words. Its doubtful tho conisidering that you were spawned by a politican and therefore devoid of integrity

I must be angering the apologists, They are a feeble and pathetic lot LMAO

and remember Wayne still buys his season tix and sounds like he's going to spring training...doesn't sound like someone whose really as mad as he sounds.

see my 8am post for more.

jason c in south florida

You're a one trick pony. Borrrrrrring.

Not brooks aka not smart

Just cuz youre dumb enough to fall for maxmorf's tactics doesnt mean that I am.

He knows that he cant argue over being waht's said, so he questions why its being said. Last time I checked, blogs were for ppl to discuss baseball any way they friggin felt like

Try and keep up. I know that you're a lonely guy but u might learn something

Seriously, I keep telling you I dont give a flying fluck about waht u think of my posts

Get over yourself. Your opinions could not be more irrelavnt to me, so offer your suggestions to someone who cares

If u dont like what I say, ignore my posts. Simple

Freeman, you are an shameless jackass

booooooooooring

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Jason and Freeman, let's play a little nicer. If you're older than 12, name-calling is kind of pathetic.

jason -

If you didn't care what I think, you wouldn't respond.

And what in the world are you talking about anyways? Of course blogs are for people to talk about whatever they want to talk about. When did I ever say they weren't?

My point is that you make yourself out to be taking a stand, even going so far as to use one of the most famous quotes in the history to back yourself up. But you're not doing anything. You're sitting at your computer, just like the rest of us. You're shouting into the vast blogosphere, just like the rest of us.

You're four or five hours away from Sarasota, where you could back up you're Burke quote and actually do something, but you're not going to. Just like wayne didn't stand up for what he believes in at FanFest.

I care what Not Brooks says because he's posts a wide variety of info in his posts...not the same thing over and over and over. jason, please keep posting your name at the bottom of your posts so i can see its you and skip over it because i already know what it says.

After long and thoughtful consideration, I have to admit that Jason C, and Wayne are the only people looking at the big picture that haven't swallowed the Kool Aid!

The best post I've read assessing our offseason tells is all, a 35 year old SP who had ERAs over 5 during 2 of the last 3 years and only won 13 games on a winning team that WE call our Ace #1.

An almost 40 year old SS (he's lied before) set to play SS, can't hit 20 dingers and will probably bat 4th.

A hurt and unproven closer. A declining skills 1B who didn't put up huge number in air thin Colorado!

I don't see how to get real excited about these stopgaps!

Finally the GM that lies through his teeth, buying the bats and gets no significant bat to protect any of our hitters!

PATHETIC!

240 Days remaining

Lunatic in FLA... since you did not repsond to my post on the Sarfate Blog, allow me to repost...

"we are getting outspent by the KC friggin Royals--- gimme a break, its not like we have any holes in our roster or anything to spend it on... and Shamrock, my list was teams that outspent us so y would i list the few teams that we outspent ?"

I was debating the point of your list. Its like global warming, Just because A is present, doesn't mean it is causing B.

The three below the O's I mentioned had better records than the Mets (who spent the second most). And how far did all that spending get the Royals? my point exactly...

Its not a money spending contest... If it was, the Mets at just under $2 mil per win takes the prize

5/10 top $$ teams 09 made the playoffs. spending clearly helps. don't be stupid.

oh, that means only 3/20 bottom $$ teams made it. get it???????

dakine,

nice link...much needed read, something different and all.

Who cares what our payroll is??? you guys sound like a bunch of accountants...
The talent is here. They will improve this season. This team is being re-built the right way for the 1st time in over a decade. People keep saying that it's the "same Lies" for 12 years. Tell me, at what point in the last decade have we ever had the talent that we have on this team now?
Overspending for Free agents gets you nowhere. When you can carry around a few bad $10mil contracts like the Yankees, then you can take the risks that they take on Free agents. If we had signed bums like Pavano, Kevin Brown,etc it would have crippled this team for years. For them it is a drop in the bucket.
Stop comparing the O's to the Yanks and Sox financially... it is a losing argument. Compare them to the teams most like them and see how many big name free agents those teams sign over the course of 4 or 5 years... Get over the payroll and pay attention to the talent... Can the O's spend more? Of course. Are they supposed to just throw their money around on free agents like LaRoche and Bedard just to say they spent money? That is financially stupid. Save the money to pay our own guys so they don't go anywhere and sign players to fair market value to complete "the plan". Don't overspend to get some mercenary who is just coming here for the paycheck, it's bad for chemistry. Guys like Jason Bay don't care where they are playing, they just want the money. The fact that he signed with the Mets proves that wins don't mean as much as dollar signs. Those are not the kind of players we want here. Free agents will come here because they want to play for a winner as soon as our current "core" players prove that they are legit. Enjoy the process...

it's not spending that helps.

it's talented players.

Bedard came out and said Seattle was his first choice. The deal was been to be reported to be worth as much as $8 million. Unless Andy ridiculously overpaid compared to Seattle Bedard was choosing Seattle. Not sure you can pin this on Andy or an unwillingness to spend. But as usual the sky is still falling in Baltimore.

tony, you are correct to a point... doesn't chg the fact that PAG owns the team. once our 'talent' hits free agency they will bolt (see mussina). we must supplement the talent w/ proven mlb players

Agreed with regards to talented players, but do you want to overspend for guys who don't care where they go as long as the money is more than the other offers?
I truly believe Figgins wanted to play on the West Coast and if all the offers he got were in the same ballpark, he would have still signed in Seattle. I believe that Holliday was always going to stay in St. Louis and play Robin to Pujol's Batman... The money was right, but so was the situation. He is not a superstar player, he is a very good player, but not good enough to be the "centerpiece" of a team like the O's...
Lackey was a hired gun and was in it for the cash regardless of who was offering it...plus, I don't think he is worth anywhere near what he got from the Sox...
Who else was out there that would have made a difference on this team? Who would have gotten us to 90 wins? No One... so why spend money for the sake of spending it? Patience, our day is coming...

Not Brooks,

Hilarious comeback against Jason C. I'm with you.

Pete, time to ban Jason C from entries. Sorry, Jason- but you don't need to get personal and start cussing dudes out. No class! We're all O's fans together: suffering together, and hopefully one day soon- WINNING together and celebrating together. But our battle is not amongst ourselves.

Until you get that, I don't think anyone on here wants to read your ridiculous, cheap-shot, un-classy, repetitive and horribly spelled posts.

Jason- Since you missed this before and it crushes your flimsy Forbes argument... here you go again.

"and Jason, do you really think the Yankees are operating at a loss every year? You really like to cling to that Forbes article as if is it true. Its all an estimation. Baseball team financial data is not public information.

But whatever, you're right. In Northern Baltimore County Peter Angelos is is rolling in a big pile of bird bucks purposely running his team into the ground. "

Your article and argument is completely irrelevant and makes little baseball sense whatsoever. The argument has been shot down from several angles, yet you still keep repeating it. (what the Warehousers don't want you to know is that if you post it 13 more times, it will come true and the Orioles will fire AM and replace him with you!)

Please get back on your meds or get a life. There are plenty of wonderful things to get outside and do in FLA! Visit the beach, go to the Daytona 500, ride a bicycle, gut punch Peyton Manning after he loses the SB, assist the elderly playing shuffle board. Anything but post mindless repetitive insanity you put up on this blog.

tony - holliday may not have been the 'answer' but he still would be the best player on the team. mostly, and telling, what about the insult offer to Tex last year??

jimmy w -

jason c is one of the few good posters on this blog. apologists are sooooo transparent.

so here's a link to a thoughtful, and for all you relentless Macphail bashers, positive look at the o's rebuilding plan on si.com from monday. a good read and a great summary of what Macphail is actually doing. enjoy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ben_reiter/02/01/baltimore.orioles/index.html

I think AM knew that Tex wanted to go to the Yankees and threw an offer at him to keep his name in the conversation. I think if Tex wanted to come here Boras would have come back and given the O's the opportunity to match an offer or improve their original offer. I think Andy was smart not to get into a bidding war that he was NEVER going to win... I think if Tex was a free agent next year, we would have had a better chance to sign him. We were not ready for a player like him yet. The problem is he had a choice to go to a complete team who was going to contend right away or come and be "the savior" for a team that was not ready to compete yet. If you were in his shoes, would you spend 3 years of your prime wallowing in 3rd-5th place as the anchor of your team while young talent developed, or join a more talented and established team that could compete from day 1? The whole thought that Tex was giving Baltimore any real consideration last year makes no sense to me. It would have been like what Bay did this year in signing with the Mets... That guy isn't going to see the post season again for the rest of his career, but he will be ok with that while he counts his money...
By the way, would anyone on here trade our team for the Mets right now?? If you want stars, they have plenty of them... They have a payroll up over $120 mil... too bad that will get them nothing but a battle with the Nats for the basement of the NL East... To all of you crying about the O's not spending money, Be careful what you wish for...

why can't we get any thoughtful articles from local media??? oh yeah, besides wnst, they are all on the o's payroll!

shamrock

Of course I dont think the Yanks were at a loss. I said a long time ago that MLB accountants are more creative than Speilberg, I know that reading is not your strong suit

I think u can basoically add a figure of +X to the Forbes figures to get the real amount

Let me ask you shamrock, do u think Forbes has an elaborate ccnspiracy to make the Os look cheap?

Do u think the rankings are wrong ?

IF so, waht are the real rankings

Not brooks aka not bright

You zre more contemptable than most because u dont make any stand at all

U talk out of both sides of your mouth in the desperate of hopes of pandering to both sides

U r not really an apologist per se, but u dont really want a winner either. U r just a lonely little man in desperate need of human contact

Poor fella

tony - probably right, but they coulda made a real offer. who knows, maybe he woulda come... at least drive up the $$ to handicap (lol) the yanks.

JD,

SO when the national media praises the O's tehy know what they are talking about but when they bash the Orioles they are clueless ?

SOund right ?

ALl of the ppl who are duped by macpahil, r u aware of his record the past 18 yrs ? (6 winning 12 losing season inc 9 with more than 90 losses and only 1 first place finish)

Do u realize that he has never spent more than 30 million on a FA (hundley 4/30)

Do u realize that Macphail is loathed more in CHicago than thrift is here ?

Do u realize that the Os have never won 70 games under macpahil?

Do u realize that its been 6 seasons since macphail cracked 80 wins CHI/BAL ?

tony P in AZ, if AM knew Tex was going to the yankees no matter what, then make a very public 9 year/$230m dollar offer. He'd be worth every penny to the Os. They'd have made millions back in the first month on t-shirt sales alone.

jason, you're amazing! you know everyone from their posts...its like you're a psychic!

SHAMROCK

Os top 5 in profits

Os bottom 5 in standings

Why would it bother a so called Oriole fan to post that information ?

Y would u doubt its authenticity ?

Sorry, u just proclaiming that something has been shot down doesnt make it so, it just makes it look like u have an agenda--and it not wins for the orioles

Y do u feel compelled to make excuses for the Orioles inexcusable behavior ?

U will never be promoted from janitor to GM no matter how much sucking up u do, now go clean those urinals in AM's office

Y do u post under multiple aliases ?

Arent there better things for u to do than worry about what I do ? NM probably not.

cush - 100% right

jason -

Still resorting to attacking me instead of actually responding to my post, huh?

Either way, you seem to be quite a bit misinformed about my stance on the O's. I do believe that we've got a nice collection of young talent, but I've certainly been calling for the team to complement the kids with a few marquee free agents for quite some time. Honestly, you'd have to be blind to have been able to ignore all of my posts about Matt Holliday.

But keep it up with the insults anyway if they make you feel better.

I can honestly say that in the last 18 months, I haven't read a single negative story about the Orioles as a franchise (outside of this blog, of course). That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but I think the general consensus is that the Orioles are on the rise (yes, yes, I know...when you're at the bottom, you have nowhere to go but up. I get it.) The national media doesn't talk about them a lot, but the coverage is overwhelmingly positive.

At least we're not the Mets...

(maybe that should be our new slogan)

Does anyone have any idea where the O's fall in terms of payroll? I mean are they in the bottom or near the bottom?

Just kidding......whoever in the world would actually have time to post all that stuff on here....is in need of something meaningful in their life...

I wish they would be in the bottom and then win the World Series....
or be at the top and still finish in last place....

in either case....I think the only person who truly cares about such things is the person posting it over and over and over and over........zzzzzzz

JC
I don't know anyone who loathes Syd Thrift. Most people are aware he made some bad moves and also some good ones. He died a year or so ago. Why would people loath someone because they don't perform their job as well as you'd like?
Oh yeah...
You are wrong on a couple fronts Macphail has never spent one dime on a baseball player. Pay attention...He simply uses a budget and signs people to contracts
Do u realize how truly rude and boring your posts are?

B-Hock, the Mets are about ready to show everyone how to blow $135m or so.

Not Brooks, how hi would you have gone for Holliday? I was for making a run at him but 7/120 was a little rich for me, if its my money. I would've gone 7/105, and hopefully frontloaded the deal a la A-Rod to get better value at the end.

SHAMROCK,

Y R U UPSET THAT I WANT THE OS TO PUT MONEY IN THE TEAM AS OPPOSED TO PETEYS POCKETS ?

Y do u think profits are better use of money than players

If u were a shareholder, Id understand, but u probably live in your parents cat-urine soaked basement

6 of 8 of the playoff teams last yr spent more than 87 million

Os are in the 60's

I used bold becuase apologists hate bold as much as wins

hey bill (sham) - I also care about their payroll. they're ripping us off. oh, and syd was another PAG pawn. get a clue. business' in bmore suffer because of this. maybe a class action suit for ineptitude of a city icon?

Mets missed the playoffs because of injuries

Last year Reyes,Beltran,Wright,Schneider, Perez, Wagner,Delgado and Castillo missed significant time due to injury

So stop mocking the Mets, they are contenders, the Orioles are a complete and utter laughingstock with no hope of making the playoffs anytime soon

I like camden yards though

cush -

I would have met the Cards offer for sure. Probably with the same amount of deferred money and/or some heavy front loading.

I also would have tried 6/110 with an $18M option for the 7th year, to offer a higher average annual salary than the Cards, and 5/100 (with a couple of options) just for the allure of $20M per.

Regardless of the structuring of the deal, I think that Holliday was worth $18-$20M per for this franchise. He would have instantly filled that giant hole where a right-handed power bat is supposed to go, he would have brought fans back in droves and he would have been a signal to other free agents that the O's are willing to spend to win.

SHAMROCK=BF=BILL= whatever name he picks next

Now hearing that Bedard won't be able to pitch till July makes me feel differently, I'm glad the move was not made. The Red Sox signed Smoltz last year knowing he wasn't going to be able to pitch for a few months, they were a contender that could take a risky move like that, which BTW failed miserably. The O's are just not in that position yet, the Mariners are or at least attempting to be. If their young guys make big strides this year they might be able to make a move like this next year.

Bill,

DO u realize how boring your posts apologizing for the Orioles are ?

marcus - y are we not in that position yet? when do you expect that we will be?

Seattle was in last palce 2 yrs ago and now they are all in for a run at the playoffs

I wish the O's tried to win the division

mets fan -

David Wright missed like 16 games. Brian Schneider's a pathetic hitter when he's healthy. It's probably a good thing for the Mets that Oliver Perez got hurt; the guy led the NL in walks in 2008 and he was walking 7.9 batters per nine last year. Billy Wagner got hurt in August of 2008 and the Mets knew he wasn't going to be a factor in 2009. Luis Castillo played in 142 games in 2009. He's played more than 142 games three times in his 14 year career.

So, crossing those guys off, your list is down to Reyes, Beltran, Delgado and Santana, who you missed. That's quite a DL, but do you really think those four would have made up for the 23 game deficit in the NL East and the 22 game deficit in the Wild Card?

Anyways, this year the Mets are contenders right? With that awesome starting rotation and that great right side of the infield. They've got a stud catcher too. And Reyes, Beltran and Johan shouldn't miss a beat returning from major injuries, right? And that awesome right fielder... What's his name again?

Hah...

PS - In no way do I believe that the O's are a contender in 2010.

hallelujah!

we will never be all in w/ PAG as owner.

'I told you, I wake up every day, right here, right in baltimore, and it's always opening day, and there's nothing I can do to stop the losing'

Groundhog Day - O's Style

Bill

I never said macphail hasnt spend a a "dime" on a player

I said that he has never spent more than 30 million on a FA

If Im wrong, prove it

Oh yeah, u cant because Im right and u are a lying scumbag apologist who cant argue the facts so u have to make up lies (apologists always do, they cant use facts)

I dont know whats worse about the apologists, their lies or their stupidity, LOL-- tough call

Whoever's posing as me:

Not sure what you're trying to prove with your Mariners reference.

They finished in dead last in 2008 and got a lot better in 2009 due to the emergence of a handful of very good young players (Franklin Guitierrez, Jose Lopez, Felix Hernandez and a very good bullpen), the contributions of a couple of old guys (Russell Branyan, Jarrod Washburn) and Ichiro being awesome.

Switch that around a bit and you've got...

They finished in dead last in 2009 and got a lot better in 2010 due to the emergence of a handful of very good young players (Matt Wieters, Nolan Reimold, Adam Jones, Brian Matusz), the contributions of a couple of old guys (Miguel Tejada, Kevin Millwood) and Brian Roberts and Nick Markakis being very good.

Again, not sure where you were going with the M's reference...

the O's will lose at least 60 games this year
the O's will win at least 60 games this year

They will then win an additional 30 games and be in the playoff hunt in spite of having ONE OF THE LOWEST PAYROLLS IN BASEBALL.....2 WORLD SERIES and counting for Andy Macphail in spite of having all those losing seasons and not paying for free agents and being despised in Chicago....but you can't take away those rings baby!!!!!

Andy's nephew
shut out again for Billy Beane

Unfortunately, the Mets fan is correct about one thing. The Orioles are a laughingstock. People in Baltimore don't want to admit it, but if you traveled outside the region, you would understand how it's a true statement. Sad, but true!

Hi Jason C. in Florida,

This thread is hilarious. You have demonsrated through various statistics what even Joe Biden knows, and that is how cheap Angelos and Macphail are. Meanwhile, the Macphail Hosanna Chorus has taken the bait and are straining and struggling to prove that there have been cheaper teams at different times in recent history. The contortions they are going through are so funny that they should charge admission.

Who was it that wrote" I don't care how cheap they are if they win a championship" or something like that. Are you kidding me? The only thing the Orioles will be winning in the next few years are high draft choices.

Thanks Jason,
It's better than being called late for dinner I suppose...well, at least you can have a civilized conversation without name calling...

wayne,

I don't like you much, but that's funny stuff........ at least it's different

and there will be wayne, giving the Os his money, still.

Not Brooks, again not our money, i can't see overspending like that for Holliday even if he is the RH bat they could use. I do encourage overspending for Fielder and A-gon as I think the return would be better.

Is this where i call you a name cause i think you're out of your mind? Or pull out a payroll list?

cush -

After a few weeks of letting it settle, I can understand not going all in on Holliday. I still would have liked to see it happen, but I can certainly understand the drawbacks.

I'm 100% with you on Fielder and Gonzalez and I sure hope Andy's with us. Of course, he's given us plenty of reason to doubt...

At this point, I think you're supposed to call me "the epitomization of all jackassery" and I'm supposed to rant and rave about how the O's are going to have the LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE THIS YEAR!!!!!!!WU@)!*(!@*$(!@#!@@ (even though that's not true).

Better idea: Let's not and say we did.

nb and cush,

Fielder and Gonzo? Are you kidding me? Are you really being serious?

Or are you just pulling everyone's leg?

Why don't you just say it's going to be sunny and 82 in Baltimore tomorrow?

Or maybe say the Colts have been replaced by the Redskins in the Super Bowl on Sunday....

Better yet, why not suggest that it was all a big mistake, and Tex will be on the O's this season?

Seriously, what has AM EVER done to suggest he would bring in two players such as Fielder and Gonzo?

Dreaming is one thing, living in a land of make believe is quite another.

why do we need gonzo or fielder? we have aubrey & atkins. sheesh. or we could put luke or nolan @ 1st. c'mon man. what we really need is someone like... mora! yeah, that's it. we can bring him back next year. just wait.

After scanning this blog for 15 minutes - one thing is clear - it's time for pitchers and catchers to report, because there is obviously nothing new left to argue about.

Perhaps the only consolation for the O's mediocre winter is this might have been the least eventful off season in 20 years. When the best FA's are a 35 year old John Lackey, Matt Holliday and Jason Bay, well enough said..... 10 more days

Hey warehousers.....
I decided to start posting under my real name....
and Jason C is actually Rachel Madau

Hi Warehousers, It's me Wayne....I've decided to start posting under my real name
And Jason C has told me to tell everyone (as if you hadn't guessed) that he is really Rachel Maddow.
It's Bush's fault that the O's stink anyway...you don't think it's coincidence that so much of this losing happened under his watch, do you?
Sincerely,
Wayne

bush = angelos

"Why would it bother a so called Oriole fan to post that information ? " Because I like that the O's shed payroll by choice and not forced to like other fiscally struggling franchises (LA, Texas, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa, KC, Minnesota, Oakland, Pittsturd, Florida, Houston)

"Y would u doubt its authenticity ?" Because it isn't authentic. It is based on guesstimates. No one knows what these teams are bringing on. They are not publicly traded.

"Sorry, u just proclaiming that something has been shot down doesnt make it so, it just makes it look like u have an agenda--and it not wins for the orioles" Yes. I have an agenda and you wear a tinfoil helmet and take several anti-psychotic drugs. Its just a baseball blog, get a life.

"Y do u feel compelled to make excuses for the Orioles inexcusable behavior ? " Im not making excuses. It is what it is. You can't change the last 12 years of baseball, nor should you let it affect your behavior.

"U will never be promoted from janitor to GM no matter how much sucking up u do, now go clean those urinals in AM's office." I dont obsess over this stuff like you do. I like to talk baseball. This isn't life, death or taxes.

"Y do u post under multiple aliases ?" You are right, I do. Sometimes I even manage to post the Blog itself by hacking the BaltimoreSun.com mainframe in order to brainwash Oriole fans into thinking all is well, when its not. In fact, I kidnapped Peter Schmuck this afternoon and he's in my basement typing the praises of Andy MacPhail. (soon, Im making him shovel my deck) and Peter Angelos is pacing the Warehouse ala the Emperor in Star Wars plotting the end of your little rebellion.

"Arent there better things for u to do than worry about what I do ? NM probably not."
No, it was a slow day at work, but I like to to make cool guys like yourself feel extra special. That and I don't want to hear that you have injured yourself or anybody else over a baseball team.

But whatever, keep repeating inaccurate information. Like Roger Clemens, the more you say it out loud, the truer it gets. That kind of behavior may win you a trip to next years climate summit, aka "The Last, Last, Last, Last chance to Save the Planet."

Great 10:24 post anonymous
Can I borrow Peter when you are done with him?
Do you think we could get Roger Clemens for 18 million plus incentives? I mean they are just sitting on that pile of money and Clemens is a WINNER

Great 10:24 post anonymous
Can I borrow Peter when you are done with him?
Do you think we could get Roger Clemens for 18 million plus incentives? I mean they are just sitting on that pile of money and Clemens is a WINNER

"Of course I dont think the Yanks were at a loss. I said a long time ago that MLB accountants are more creative than Speilberg, I know that reading is not your strong suit"
What is that about my reading ability? Than how is your beloved Forbes article accurate? If they are that profitable, maybe that means the O's aren't as profitable and so on. So maybe the Speilbergian accountants for the Orioles manage their books a little differently than the Yankees.

"I think u can basoically add a figure of +X to the Forbes figures to get the real amount" But, I thought that the Forbes list were the real numbers?

"Let me ask you shamrock, do u think Forbes has an elaborate ccnspiracy to make the Os look cheap?" What? Forbes is a Financial magazine and was likely attempting to measure how teams are managed fiscally, and not attempting to determine which teams should spend more money on mid level free agent talent.

"Do u think the rankings are wrong" Maybe? Forbes has no way of knowing exactly what each team brings in. It is not reported, nor is it public information.

"IF so, waht are the real rankings" I don't know, but its irrelevant in building a team, but relevant when measuring the viability of the team.

Have you ever seen "Forgetting Sarah Marshall?" I imagine the part where Peter is yelling at himself about sucking and going to a psychiatrist while playing the piano is similar to you typing posts on this site.

You waste more time complaining about peripheral conspiracy theories than you do talking baseball. You must read a lot of tabloids, you know, the garbage magazines that make stuff up about celebrities, rather than write about the actual work the celebrities do.

Talk baseball here, or go rant to your mother elsewhere.

Great 10:24 post anonymous
Can I borrow Peter when you are done with him?
Do you think we could get Roger Clemens for 18 million plus incentives? I mean they are just sitting on that pile of money and Clemens is a WINNER

notorious...

Sorry.. forgot to put my name on there...

Peter is almost done. Wet snow is a pain to shovel. His ears are cold too, forgot his furry Russian hat!

The O's have less than $4mil locked up in Jones, Riemold, Pie, Matusz, Bergeson, Tillman, Johnson, Wieters, and Meredith. That is a pretty good start and it won't last long as they play toward arbitration.

Further, they shed about $37 mil in misspent money between Baez, Walker, Huff, Mora, Sherrill, Walker and Zaun.

Maybe next year when there are some actual talents available, they will spend some money and get good value as they continue to build for the future. Well positioned to do some damage in next years FA market.

Good to Great, Built to Last.

wayne -

Read.

"I'm 100% with you on Fielder and Gonzalez and I sure hope Andy's with us. Of course, he's given us plenty of reason to doubt..."

Then respond.

Shamrock,

Why would Andy spend on our guys later when he has never been known to do so? You don't think if one of our developing players becomes a stud, he won't trade him for prospects, rather than pay up?
I just don't understand why this guy is trusted the way he is. Why are people believing something about the guy that's never been true?

"I'm 100% with you on Fielder and Gonzalez and I sure hope Andy's with us. Of course, he's given us plenty of reason to doubt..."

agree 95%.

isn't there a reasonable chance that many of these Free Agents of the next few years will all be signed like Verlander and King Felix.

nb,

I got it...

The point is, why even waste your time by bringing their names up?

Literally, Drew Bree's has as much chance playing defensive end on Sunday as either one of those guys having coming to Baltimore.

I get it that it's nice baseball chatter, but ........ oh, nevermind!

doug,

I hear you...... it really is amazing!

No offense Pete, but I seriously feel myself getting dumber reading some of this drivel (the comments, not the blog). I'm starting to see the real reason you don't have the blog setup so you'd have to review every comment thoroughly before it posts.

206 comments of THE SAME THING just about. No wonder you did the Plunge. Something would have to jolt your mind out of this nonstop droning.

Fire Trembley.

Fire Bedard.

I'd only pay like $2 Million in Confederate money for Bedard.

paulie - No chance. Fielder's already said he's not signing an extension and there's no way the Padres have enough money to keep Gonzalez.

wayne - Exactly.

It's nice baseball chatter.

And it's fun to dream, especially when reality is a nightmare.

Unless Fielder drops about 100 pounds, forget about him.
His potential lies mainly on the DL.

If MacPhail REALLY wanted Adrian Gonzalez, we certainly have the players in our system to have traded for him, and would have still had plenty more left in our system afterward.

I have no reasonable guess as to what stopped him.