I sure hope he has something up his sleeve because right now all I'm seeing from the Orioles is a desire to see how many games they can play with less than 1000 people in the seats. Between jacking the fans for game day tickets, while doing essentially nothing (so far) to give much hope for a .500 season in 2010, I find myself just scratching my head in wonder.
Does Peter A really believe that the fans patience is just endless?

This one's easy. Refer to the LaRoche complaints posted over the past few days. Change a cheap free agent option to a cheap trade option. The McPhail/Angelos complaints stay the same, and there it is.
s.o.s.d.d.

Hey, Petey, you have to have one of your minion do something about all of these repeat posts. Is is software or a virus or what? They're driving me me me me crazy. me me me crazy crazy me crazy

Many predicted that the O's will add another corner infielder before ST. Now that Laroche and Kouz are no longer available, the only thing that makes sense is Delgado for an incentive laden 1 year deal with a club option for a second year. However, I hope the 'something up AM's sleeve' is much bigger than Delgado..... but highly unlikely.

Kouzmanoff is one of those perennial "top prospects" who has always been loved by sabremetricians for his good minorleague career of strong power, avg, bb/k numbers...BUT..he has produced just enough to keep fans intrigued by the possibility that he will reach his upside one day.

The funny thing is that suddenly he's 27 now and can't be considered a prospect any longer. He manages to do just enough, and you couldn't call it "bad" production, but it isn't necessarily "good" either. It's really pretty mediocre across the board: avg, power, fielding, speed.

Beane basically traded for what a 3 yr player like him would be valued at, somewhere between Jeff Reboulet and Mike Bordick, not a marquee but solid player who could be a valued member of a team under the right circumstances.

What do you think Peter?

Losing Kouz is no big deal, Bell is a legit prospect and I am excited to see him in the bigs sooner rather than later. It would not surprise me to see him in Baltimore by June. I am more interested in what they will do at 1B. I really feel like they need to bounce on AGon at the trading deadline or next offseason. They have the prospects to trade for him and the money to sign him. So there are no excuses. Regardless this is going to be a good season as this is the best team they have had in 12 years.

Hey Pete! Did you spend all the petty cash on Tommy and forget to pay the Suns internet bill? This blog is all jacked up man!!

Kouzmanoff will hit the mendoza line for the first 2 1/2 months of the season, strike out with men in scoring position, and then pile up the solo HRs in the second half of the season. Yes he is a good fielder, but will drive a fan nuts at the plate.

Kouzmanoff's loss isn't causing me to shed any tears. These NL guys often don't make good transitions. If he had been a free agent, I'd feel differently. Personally; I'd like to see Hank Blalock signed. We already know what he can do in the AL...he's 29 years old...and he can play first or third (like Atkins). That would give the Orioles maximum lineup flexibility. He should be happy with a 1 year deal.

Losing Kouz is no big deal, Bell is a legit prospect and I am excited to see him in the bigs sooner rather than later. It would not surprise me to see him in Baltimore by June. I am more interested in what they will do at 1B. I really feel like they need to bounce on AGon at the trading deadline or next offseason. They have the prospects to trade for him and the money to sign him. So there are no excuses. Regardless this is going to be a good season as this is the best team they have had in 12 years.

I'll be surprised if Andy has anything aside from signing Joe Crede up his sleeve.

Again, prove me wrong, Andy.

Can't wait to see "Orioles place 3B Crede on 15-day disabled list" alot next season.

Adding Delgado should put us over the top for the division... NOT!

PETE,

When do you stop saying things like 'we'll have to wait and see what MacPahil has to say or do'? When does it stop?

When do even guys like you start to get pissed off? I know this isn't your home team, and I know you're suppose to be an unbiased reporter/commentary, but when are the fans of Baltimore represented.

Guys like Beane make guys like AM look like chumps, year after year after year. And you're surprised that Beane was able to make this deal?

Are you kidding?

When does it stop?

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Hey Wayne, when do you stop wondering why everybody on earth doesn't say exactly what you want them to say? When do you stop waiting for everyone to share the most negative possible perception of everything? I don't get mad, Wayne, because it would serve no purpose. I don't make my final judgement on the offseason in late November like you, either. I've got a few weeks left to see what else happens. I doubt there will be anything earth-shattering, but I'll still wait until the month is out to draw any final conclusions. Remember Wayne, I put my whole name behind what I say here, unlike yourself, so I can't just change my screen name when something happens that eventually proves me wrong. That's why I take a more measured approach than you.

I have been a big supporter and defender of MacPhail's until the past week. Seeing Laroche and Kouzmanoff arrive at new homes at very cheap prices has me questioning the MacPhail.

Peter - you say that "you'll see what he has up his sleeve." What could he possibly have up his sleeve? Would you be content with Joe Crede or Hank Blalock, knowing how cheap Laroche and Kouzmanoff could have been obtained? What other option could he possibly make at the corner infield spots to redeem MacPhail?

I wasn't part of the "Holliday to the Orioles fan club", and had bought into Andy's plan. However, it is getting tougher and tougher to follow this team. I hope you are right Peter - that Andy has something up his sleeve.

Just how much profit will be enough for the O's? They should start getting rid of any player who makes over a millon to get down to 29th in payroll. Because it is obvious that its about the money and not about putting the best product on the field.

Time to...

OPEN THE BOOKS!

I can't understand why anyone would be upset by not getting Kouzmanoff. This guy would be fighting it out with Cesar Izturis to see which one finished the year with a higher BA and OB%. His slugging percentage is average, his ops is absolutely dreadful.

How can Andy have anything up his sleeve? He's laying on a beach w/o a shirt, tanning like a mad man! Which is also why nothing is being done! I have been a loyal fan for 52 years! My dad got me involved with baseball and he was an Orioles fan, I just followed his footsteps. But I have had it. I live in Rhode Island, nothing but Red Sox and Yankee fans up here. They have never had to go through anything like this! I am this () close to turning my alliance! The losing and tight fistedness of this organization needs to stop! This is so damn sad, that we as fans have to be so disheartened over te loss of players who would not of even made the roster in the '60 & '70's. Evendently, there is a new meaning to "The Oriole Way". It now means "Let's screw over the fans and make as much money as we will nver be able to spend"

I would have liked to see Kouz in Baltimore, but also agree with not brooks that what the A's seem to have given up might be greater than return.

Also, thanks Peter for the "you don't know what's up the sleeve" comment. Obviously there are going to be trades for the O's. We'll never know what, who, or when until the moment.

Folks often ask about "how much longer!!!!!" and the answer can only be "sometime between right now and then".

Nice to see the quality of this blog, technology wise matches that of the Sun paper.

Peter, you must feel like a Captain on a sinking ship at the Sun. Gotta be pretty embarrassing.

Hmmm, kind of like being associated with the Orioles.

"Still, before you get all riled up, we better wait and see exactly what MacPhail ends up doing to address the other corner infield opening"--

thats all we do is "wait and see" and all we ever see are the same mediocre to below mediocre talent. i thought the plan was to get all this young pitching and put good fielders behind them. this was the perfect opportunity...you gonna tell me they wouldnt take Pie and a prospect for him over what they got?

but okay, ill "wait and see" what the next move is that they DONT make.

The Millwood trade and Gonzalez signing got me encouraged again. Atkins has upside and motivation, but its already mid-january and this is all we've done? If anyone thinks Tillman, Matusz and Bergensen will put up 180-200 innings in what is essentially their first full season is crazy! We need another starter who can pitch 200 innings and a bat in the lineup to support Jones and crew. This doesn't look promising.

At least they kept ticket prices the same...oh wait.

Delgado is a turd just trying to collect another 6 million before he retires to Punta Cuna.

Hey Pete is the Sun going out of business? Why is this blog so messed up?

...........................................................................................
Pete's reply: I don't know why this is happening. We're looking into it.

Raising ticket prices after a 98 loss season
+
Horrible offseason moves so far
+
Worst owner/FO in baseball
+
Disingenuous media coverage of the team from Sun and MASN
+
26 payroll in MLB
=
Baltimore Orioles!!
THIS IS TURDLAND!!!

Why do Orioles fans even think AM is some sort of Billy Beane? Maybe 20 years ago but the guy is obsolete. Even in his prime he couldn’t win this division! AM is a total dinosaur and a PA puppet! The only thing AM has done with the Orioles like Beane is save money but the money AM saves goes directly to PA and does not help the progression of the Orioles. AM gets players then the local media and MASN crown them even when they haven’t done anything to navigate the team away from the downward spiral it’s been on for over a decade. 98 losses last season; they retained maybe the worst manager in Orioles history, and currently have a roster that is terrifying. Please Peter Angelos sell the team!!! You are the worst thing to ever happen to sports in Baltimore!!

Is the reason this blog is so screwed up have anything to do with the MASN jammer antenna at the warehouse pointed at the sun building??

Generally I am supportive of the front office. Much of what they do and don't do makes sense to me from a long term perspective.

I saw no downside in giving LaRoche a contract even better than what he received from the Diamondbacks. Even if he isn't the long term answer at first, he does buy you time and gives you more flexibility to trade other pieces (Scott??) for long term answers at first and short.

Raising walk-up ticket prices to me makes no business sense unless you have a corresponding reduction in advance sales prices. It is in the Orioles best long term interests to put as many fans in the seats as possible. Residual income from parking, food sales, souveniers, better advertising rates, etc. can compensate for lower prices.

The Orioles need to find price points that allow them to consistently get 40,000 in the seats. It may mean a substantial reduction of prices for some seats on some nights versus some teams in order to do this.

At some point the Orioles will field a competent team, but they risk having no one care when they do so. However, if they manage their price points now, they can adjust their price points higher later when demand increases.

I think what frustrates me most about the front office is that they are competent but not particularly creative.

I expect the Orioles to increase the number of ticket promotions once the season begins. If not the attendance figures for Camden Yards will be disastrous.

Someone please remind Gary Thorne that management does not appreciate any comments from the broadcasters about the abundance of empty seats at the stadium.

This team is moving or the Angelos family is maneuvering to make some kind of deal. It just makes absolutely no sense what they are doing. Why on earth are they going to raise ticket prices at all after last season? I went to 14 games last season and 10 of them were almost totally empty. How does raising prices at all for similarly bad team as last year make any sense? Fans are getting more and more pissed over this kind of stuff! Why try to anger the last bit of them? Either the Orioles are high as hell and starting to believe the MASN productions they put out or they have got to be intentionally lowering attendance in an effort to sell the team but keep the MASN network or some kind of scheme that Angelos keeps making money with as less effort possible.

I had a 13 game pack last season with pretty good seats and even during prime games there was nobody around. Everyone that came to my area were people with upper deck tickets that just walked right past security lol

Speaking of Orioles security (or lack of) did anybody see that Mortal Kombat like fight during the first day game of the season vs the Yankees? LOL it only took 30 min for the fans to stop it and about an hour for it to get resolved…. I’ve seen better security in pool halls!!

Everything at Camden Yards is nickeled and dimed… Security, workers, drink lids not fitting properly, everything overpriced etc. For some real funny stuff talk to people that work there about Peter Angelos and the working conditions. Hillllllllllarious!

Are you serious Pete?
We are supposed to be upset because we aren't landing very marginal free agents and very marginal 3rd baseman through a trade? I guess the reason Beane gave up so little is cause there was SO LITTLE INTEREST. Man, you guys are unreal. Really reaching for criticisms. You act like we just lost out on Brooks.....not not you not brooks, the true Brooks.

This is downright insane.
Has anyone actually looked at the guys numbers. We don't have anyone in our system that can hit around 18 home runs and strike out less than 100 times?
Yeah, I guess we should have offered Tillman and Snyder for the guy.....I'm sorry but this is crazy....
I guess because you predicted him coming here Pete, it clouds your judgement, but I truly don't get why anyone would think we need the dude.

bf

You are so right. This guy is a below average offensive player. His ob% is in Izturis territory, his OPS is poor, he doesn't walk much and strikes out a lot. He has played in an average of 147 games per year for the last three years and scores 60 runs per season while driving in 82.

If Kouzmanoff had put up these kinds of numbers for the Orioles in the last 3 years, posters on this board would be howling for AM get rid of him. Instead, they're now whining because he didn't sign him.

bf and flip = same user

Todd=drug user

I agree with both flip and bf, as not acquiring Kouzmanoff isn't that big of a deal. I think Adam LaRoche is a nice player, but I am not upset about not getting him. I don't think these two guys are going to turn the tide. I still like the gamble on Atkins because if he bounces back that's the power the O's desperately need and I think a case could be made for trying to sign Blalock, who could be due for a big year since he had his 1st healthy season out of the last three in 2009.

Except for Garko or Blalock, I personally would rather see Michael Aubrey at first. I know his minor league stats, but the guy impressed me last year. I wouldn't mind seeing Lou play some 1st since he's not getting any time in the OF. He's got a sweat swing and I would like to see what he can do over the course of a full season.

I like AM and I like what's going on here, but whether you hate him, like him or don't care, you can't discount his two World Series rings. The guy took over a team that was pathetic so I don't see how he can be blamed for everything that has gone on here since the wire to wire season. People can say what they want, but I can't see how any fan can say the team is worse off now than before AM took the reigns. Does he get a free pass for life? No, but i think it's too soon to say he's failed or not doing enough.

Pete's reply to wayne = ZING!

People -

Stop comparing Kouzmanoff to Izturis.

Kouz average season (excluding 61 PA's in '06): .263 avg, 20 hr, 103 OPS+

Izturis average season (excluding 140 PA's in '01): .259 avg, 2 hr, 66 OPS+

OPS+ = Park/League adjusted OPS

Seriously. Stop comparing these two guys. Kouz isn't a great hitter, but no one ever said he was. And here's nowhere near as worthless at the dish as Izturis.

Pete, There's a better option than Kouz still out there and one the Birds don't lose any players to get: Miguel Tejada.

Miggy hit .310 last year and led the NL in doubles with 43. As for defense, I think he can pick up third easily. If you'll recall, for all his liability in range at short he made most of his WebGem caliber plays as a result of his exceptional reflexes, which is exactly what he'd need at third.

Aside for needing to prove himseld as a defender at the hot corner, the only thing I can see holding back the Orioles from signing him is that he'd want to play, which could be a problem when it comes to promoting Josh Bell...or not.

There's no reason Tejada couldn't also get at bats as a DH. He could give the Orioles a solid bat, which can't be easily said about the other third base options. (Carlos Delgado, perhaps, but from what I've read, the O's would prefer to move Garrett Atkins to first.)

When AM was hired he said he was building from the farm system up....apparently for some posters this includes signing/trading for mediocre alternatives or acquiring players tied to outlandish rumors (AG)!

Most of the negative posters on here are more incompetent with their beliefs than the man they berate~

Kouz's numbers away from Petco were excellent for a 3b. Certainly better than Wiggy or Crede would put up.

Pete, what does it do to our better players when management does so little to improve the team? What does it do to a fan base riasing ticket prices after a 90+ loss season? What does it do to morale for our young players and veterans when no one comes to see us play except Yankee and Red Sox fans when they're in town? What was once a great franchise has really hit rock bottom?

Yes, there are some signs of light in some of our younger players, but there is simply no tradition of winning here anymore. We just keep playing for a future season somewhere down the line while Boston and NY keep getting stronger.

I'd like some definitive answers from AM like (A) When are we going to have a winning record? (B) When can we expect to actually compete for the playoffs? If you've a plan WHEN is the payoff? Can you "quantify" it instead of giving us continual platitudes of hope that younger inexperienced players are our only salvation. Outside of Bell, Snyder, Arrieta and Britton there's not a heckuva lot to get hopeful for on the farm, and even those four are not the best prospects in baseball like a Strasburg.

When will this team even get past 70 wins in a season again? When will you get that big bat? We traded our best pitcher in Milt Pappas to take that risk on FRob back in here in the 60's. It is obvious we are NOT going to get that big bat via FA. It'll have to be by trade and it is going to cost us. If we could get Miguel Cabrera we are going to have to give up more than Luke Scott and Ty Wiggington.

It's looking more and more like Joe Crede will be the O's 3B in 2010. God help us.

Not Brooks,

You have been posting "Prove me wrong Andy"since last November. All he has done is proven you right.

When the first few name FA's signed big contracts, the spin from the blog sycophants was the teams that signed them over paid and they wouldn't have made the Orioies a winner.

After Bay And Holliday signed the rationalizion from the "we love Andy" fan club was that they didn't want to come to Baltimore anyway.

Then as the last of the talent like Laroche and Kouzmanoff came off the board the spin is that we didn't need these guys, they are average at best, not worth the money.

Now the Orioles sneak in a ticket increase Saturday, NFL playoff weekend just like the White house slips out bad news to avoid the regular news cycle. I wish I hadn't already paid for my tickets this year. I won't anymore. No more donations to the Law firm from me. Many have already made that decsion and this year's attendance is going to fall off the map.

I can't remember who posted that they thought the Orioles would be a .500 team this year. Soon the media wil be make their prediction for the upcoming 2010 baseball season. I predict that all of the prognosticators will pick the Orioles for last. There is no reason not to. Nothing Macphail has done in the offseason has changed the paradigm.

The Baltimore Orioles, last once agin in the American League East, where they will be securely ensconced for years to come. Losers. The Baltimore losers

Not Brooks, you are the stat man! I've never heard of +OPS, park/league adjusted whatever (BS) in my life, but you found it man! Too bad the extensive knowledge of obscure heresay allows you to overlook simple facts.

Here's what I know. Kouzmanoff had an OBP of .302 last year. That is disasterous and pathetic. He strikes out too much and and he scored a grand total of 50runs in about 580 plate appearances last year. While you could pencil in a few more homers at OPACY to go from 18 to 22 or so, I would be willing to bet that his .255 BA would fall down somewhere to the .230 range against AL East pitching. In fact there's no reason to believe he'll do anything other then decline across the board switching from the NL to AL as many players have.

Simply put, Kouzmanoff will drive you crazy as a fan. The last thing I want to see is another Wiggington or second half Adam Jones killing rallies by swinging every garbage pitch he can.

Please refer to the January 16 2:50 post by Chris who's actually seen Kouzmanoff play in SD.

SIGN DELGADO...clearly one of the best hitters in baseball who had a bad injury filled season. If healthy, he can put up 35 HRS or more and knock in more that 100. One year contract with an option for two. Between Roberts, Jones, Markakis, Weiters, DELGADO, Atkins, Reimold, Scott/Pie and Isturis that is a pretty good lineup. So again, SIGN DELGADO!!!!!!! Now for the pitching....

So now, someone mentions how Billy Beane stole Kouz, and now all of a sudden AM gets compared to Beane, and the AM beatings begin anew.
Did anyone actually read about the trade? It was an exchange of spare parts. And the trade allowed the Pads to put their young guys in their natural positions.Addition by subtraction. And Oakland brings him in as insurance for Chavez, who's gonna try to play this year after back replacement surgery. You'd think Beane just stole the Next Great 5 from the Pads.

If Beane had someone in his system ready or nearly-ready for that spot, Kouz would still be in SD.That's how Beane works. (I think Billy Beane should have taken the Sawx job a few years ago. I like the guy, I wonder how and what he'd do with play money).

The Oakland Mausoleum should be a nice fit for Kouz. It did wonders for Holliday. I don't think he has the trade value of Matty though.

So now you're going to say that if AM brought Kouz here, you'd get off the guy's back? What is that guy really worth that he costs you any players at all? Unless he can pitch, his numbers don't justify giving up anyone. Just another guy that never reached his potential.So if he comes here and stinks up the joint, you're all pissing and moaning that AM traded for this bum, that he made a deal just to do something, and the bashing can continue.

jim66,

Cogent points all, as usual. But Jim, In my opinion Kouzmanoff is in some ways a metaphor for the failure of the Andy Macphail era. Not the failure to acquire prospects mind you for which he deserves an A+, but the tone deaf approach that he has taken to simulataneously improving the product on the field.

It was never a zero sum game. There is not some Bible or owner's guide that states that a bad professional baseball team is not allowed to upgrade the talent at the Major League level while engaged in rebuilding the farm system. Especially when a GM takes over an organization that has already lost ten years in a row. The patience of the majority of the fans was already exhausted when he got here. To dump 4 or more years of losing on top of that is not only an insult to the fans but a signal that the ownership could care less what the fans think.

And the fans are voting with their feet. I predict an attendance loss of 250,000 or more this year over last year's decline, partly due to the recession but mostly because there is no reason to spend Major league money on an AAA product. Even the die hard fans are leaving. Anecdotally, I know of a dozen local financial institutions who have cancelled Oriole season ticket plans in the last few years. The Orioles front office knows it too. wish I had cancelled mine. I will next year.

I often wonder what the late John Steadman would have to say about the current plight of the Orioles. I'm sure he would not be very kind to Peter Angelos. His blind hatred for Robert Irsay may have in some small way helped to run the creep out of town

djph -

There's a pretty nice collection of pitchers in the NL West as well. I suggest you take a look some time.

I also suggest that you take a look at Kouz's road splits. Get him out of Petco, and he's a much better pitcher.

One final point: I'd take Kouz over our current starting third baseman any day. Wouldn't you?

djph -

In response to Chris in SD's post: Of course Kouz's average will look pretty ugly for the first couple of months. He's an awful hitter in April. But so is Mark Teixeira. And so is Adam LaRoche. And so are so many others.

And of course Kouz only hits solo home runs. But how in the world could that be his fault? Aside from Adrian Gonzalez, who in that San Diego little league lineup can actually get on base?

Gil,

And I say this very respectfully because I know a member of the family.

John Steadman would have been fired if he worked at the Sun, and he never would have been able to get anywhere near the likes of MASN, 1057thefan and others.

If John covered the O's in any way, with a non biased organization, the Orioles would limit his credentials and do whatever they could to discredit anything about him.

John would still be an Oriole fan though, because he loved baseball and he loved what the Orioles once were (win or lose). He would understand that being an oriole fan does NOT mean you have to be a fan of the current Oriole corporation.

The Orioles would have done all they could to make John a shill for the organization. John however, would have stood up for what's right.....

.... John would have stood up for the fans.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I believe John would have been an honest commentator who would have stood up for the fans, Wayne, because I knew and revered John. But John was one of the most positive human beings that ever walked this planet, and he would not have signed on to what you're trying to sell...and -- if he were working today -- you would be insulting him like you insult everybody else who refuses to spout your jaundiced view of everything. This is the last time I respond to you, because I'm sick and tired of you questioning the integrity of anyone who isn't in your sorry, negative world. Enough already.

ESPN is reporting

Joe Crede may be on the Orioles' radar
hahahahahahahah sorry..

Oh wait this just in Joe Crede will be on the DL 55% of the season!

Wayne,

I met him a few times and he autographed his book for me, "The Baltimore Colts, a Pictorial History'. He loved the Colts and attended very Colts game, all 719 from 1947 until they moved to Indianapolis. I used to love reading his columns. He used to have a short 5 minutes radio bit on WBAL every Monday morning back in the 50's and 60's. I'll never forget him talking about Johhny Unitas after a great Sunday performance when Johnny U. was in his prime. He said" He is so good, he belongs in a higher League"

His columns about Robert Irsay before and after he moved the Colts were harshly critical and brutal and he never let up on Irsay intil the day that John died.

Wayne, I don't think that the Orioles, Peter Angelos, Andy Macphail and the entire organization need a John Steadman to rain down literary hell on them. The are out there, naked in all of their futility and incompetence.The Orioles from ownership on down are perennial losers and the current "rebuilding"scam is but another of a series of shameful hoaxes perpetrated on the fan base. Only this time the fans as a whole, aren't buying it. The majority don't write critical blogs. They aren't wasting their time. They are just going away.

The treatment of the fans by Peter Angelos and Andy Macphail reminds me of the old saying, "The floggings will continue until morale improves."

not brooks,
after considering Kouz numbers I would definitely take what we have over him. I wouldn't even pick the guy up off a waiver. I think we have have people that can hit 18 home runs and hopefully strike out LESS THAN 100 times while doing it....you folks are seriously reaching on this one.

post those total numbers from last year and his career...you seem to have a handle on that stuff

The truth is the O's need 2 more drafts to restock the farm system. Having seen games the last 2 yrs. at Frederick and Bowie, the pipeline is improving. There are more young O's on the way.

Britton and Erbe are just 2 of a batch of good young arms on the way. I'd expect Britton to be in the rotation in 2011, maybe by Sept of this year.

Nobody wants to hear it but prospects like Weiters are at the top of the draft. AM's not giving up picks to get a 30 something FA. There will be another year of struggling with the kids to look forward to.

This year's team reminds me of 1964 or 1977 when you could see hope on the horizon of very good teams down the road.

The Angelos Clan deserves every nasty thing that gets said about them. But McPhail knows how to build a winner and is apparently getting a free hand to do so.

Watch the minors this year, improvement is on the way. Go to Bowie or Frederick and try and cheer up!

Peter,

Kouz OPS+ in 2009 was 100. I guess you are more liberal with your use of the term "good offensive numbers."

PETE,

You're obviously confusing being negative with telling the truth.

Yes, John was an extremely positive person. But that NEVER stopped him from speaking his mind about the Colts, Orioles or sports in general.

In other words, if John talked today, the way he talked (at times) about the Colts, he would be called out for being negative.

Do you understand the difference Pete?

I mean do you think John's views were 'jaundiced' with it came to his sometimes very critical commentary? Maybe you've simply forgotten.

I believe John absolutely would have called out the Orioles in ways people like me could never dream. He would do so in a way that would likely make PA's blood boil.

Gil, you obviously remember John's commentary about Irsay. You remember how brutal his columns were. John was speaking for the great fans of Baltimore.

That he was brutal on Irsay, didn't make him a negative person. He was simply being honest!

The point is, and something Pete completely ignores.... that due to John's honest, blunt approach, he'd be called negative (and other names) today.....even though John was as honest as they come.

Wow, you missed this one Pete! Sometimes, you should open your mind instead of getting so defensive.

Mountain Fan,

You have great a point about minor League baseball. Now that I don't waste much time at Camden Yards anymore, I attend lot's of games at new Sovereign Bank Stadium here in York, the home of the Independent League York Revolution. It is AAA Calibre or better, with many ex-major leaguers trying to get back. Many do. I bought two dugout box season tickets, right on top of the action for $630 a piece. It is a 140 game schedule. It is much more fun than spending a fortune to go see the Orioles get hammered. Concessions are very reasonable and it makes for a great day or evening of baseball. The new coach is Andy Etchebarren who relaced Chris Hoiles and the coaching staff is usually represented by ex orioles such as Al Bumbry, Tippy Martinez,etc.

PETE,

Why do you hate me! I'm only telling the truth!

Why do you see the postives instead of the negatives!

I don't care that the O's are building the future on a foundation instead of on sand! I want to complain!

Don't hate me because I respond to your logic with more negativity! Don't hate me because I refuse to see anything positive!

Don't hate me for being your blog's troll! Don't hate me for posting under LOL and BREAKING NEWS!

Don't hate me for saying dude 1000 times and my overuse of exclamation points!

Don't hate me for not having the pride to not renew my season tickets even though I spit on the team every chance I get!

Don't hate me for expecting you to be my mouthpiece! I don't have the testicular fortitude to do something myself!

Please don't hate my need for attention! Please don't hate the blinders I wear!

Please keep feeding the troll!
I'll die if you don't!

Ken Francis

With the way Miggy went about getting himself out of Baltimore, there's no way he can come back. He burned the bridge behind himself on the way out.

Wayne,

Angelos owns Pete's soul so dont even bother...

aka the troll?

'tool', 'troll'..... Guys, so weak! So incredibly weak!

Come on, get together and come up with something better. Something creative!

You all have something in common.... always being on the losing side of the argument You lost last year! You'll lose this year! You'll lose next year!

Having that in common, you should all be able to put your warehouse brains together and come up with something better.

I'm counting on you!

I'm counting on the warehousers to make logical points so I can say something about the name they call me, instead of the points they make!

I'm counting on the warehousers to be positive about the team! Or else my negativity will matter even less!

I'm counting on PETE to say something about Angelos and McPhail in the blog!
I don't have the testicular fortitude or intelligence to do it myself!

I'm counting on all of you to pay attention to me!
I'm a troll!
Without attention......I"LL DIE!!!!

Wayne,

I think what set Pete off is that you seem to be killing the messenger. He is trying to report objectively on what the Orioles are doing this offseason and avoid editorializing until opening day. I try to focus my displeasure striclty where it belongs, Angelos and Macphail, not the bloggers or Pete. If it weren't for Pete, we would not have this very high profile and public forum to voice our displeasure. There have been statements by certain people that Orioles ownership and management don't read this blog, but don't believe it. They read it, they just don't get it. Yet.

There was a time several years ago when Pete used to hammer Angelos pretty much on a regualr basis. I think he ran out of things to write, because how many different ways can you say that the owner is a great lawyer but a cluless, incompetent owner.

Pete is not the problem, but he may yet be part of the solution. Through the blog, I think Orioles management realizes that "the plan" needs to start yielding results in wins and losses or the fan base will continue to dwindle at a faster pace than before.

I expect Pete will write a critical analysis of the offseason moves by Macphail before opening day. He is a master of the understatement. I think he has left enough hints along the way as to what he may say. I, for one, can't wait.

Meanwhile, I need to get back to Macphail bashing so as not to disappoint the bloggers.

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

If the shoe fits...

Gil,

I get what you're saying... I really do!

My main issue however is that the time for hints have long passed.

I've seen, in other markets, how powerful the media can be. I'm not necessarily just talking about the NY media (although they hold everyone accountable all the time), but I've seen how the media can actually be a voice for the fans who are fed up, in many markets.

In other words, I've seen the media make a difference. Mr Steadman in fact, made a difference.

not brooks

You're right. "Kouz isn't a great hitter." For that matter, he isn't a good hitter or an average one either. He's considerably below average.

Surely you can't be serious in saying, "I'd take Kouz over our current starting third baseman any day."

Comparing Atkins offensive production to Kouz over a full season of about 650 PA, Atkins has averaged 83 runs scored and 101 RBIs. Kouz is 59 runs and 82 RBIs.

I realize that you like Kouz's defence, but he'd have to be Brooks Robinson reincarnated to make up what he gives away at the plate.

not brooks

4:34 post was me. Oops. Sorry.

wayne -

Obviously you're speaking the truth. No one is arguing that.

The problem is your attitude.

If anyone disagrees with you they are 100% wrong, regardless of whatever points they make. And then come the passive aggressive comments. Sure, you never come out and just call someone an "idiot", but you certainly imply that the people who disagree with you aren't very intelligent.

Ease up, allow yourself to see some of the positives and refrain from the passive aggression and I think you'll see a big difference in the way that people respond to you.

flip -

My point in saying that I'd take Kouz over our current starting third baseman was that we currently don't have a starting third baseman.

By passing on LaRoche, Andy has made it clear that he doesn't want Atkins at third this season.

But anyway, Atkins is a great comparison for Kouz. Both of them have severe home/away splits:

Outside of Coors, the best hitters park in the game, Atkins is a .252/.324/.411 hitter. Outside of Petco, the worst hitters park in the game, Kouz is a .284/.328/.477 hitter.

So, even if Atkins was set to be the starting third baseman, I'd take Kouz over Atkins any day.

One more thing, flip:

I don't really take runs and rbi into much consideration when I'm looking for a solid offensive player. Both of those numbers are waaaaay too dependent on the team.

And comparing the offenses of the Rockies and Padres over the past few seasons is like apples and oranges.

Pete -

Is Andy back from the owner's meetings yet?

I'm still waiting to hear what he has to say about LaRoche and Kouzmanoff.

Andy MacPhail wasn't born yesterday. I'm guessing that he probably figured out that he'd be inheriting a foul public mood by taking over a team in a 10 year losing streak. If he hadn't bothered thinking that through at the time, all the empty seats that greeted him would have made the point.

The idea that he'd need to come on here to gauge the public mood is silly. There's only one way to bring back fans and that's to win games. After 20 or so years of being a GM, I have a hard time believing that Andy didn't figure that out long ago.

Not Brooks,

Here is what Macphail will say.

"I know that Oriole fans are anxious for the team to do well. I share that same sense of anxiety, however, my job is to ensure the long term success of the organization and of the team and in good faith I cannot invest in costly short term fixes that appear to be appealing but do not fit the long term vision that I have for the Orioles".

"I have to take into account the progress of the valuable assetts that we have acquired in the past few seasons and have to make certain that we do not retard the progression of the young players by investing financial resources in contracts that may serve only to block that progress."

"We are on the right track and it won't be long before our patience and sound judgement will begin to show results in the standings."

TRANSLATION: "We are going to lose big time in 2010, so get over it. I'm not sure myslf if this experiment is ever going to come together, but if I can string it out for another couple of years, I can move on to become commissioner. and claim I rebuilt the team. Peter Angelos hasn't asked me one question since I was hired in early June 2007 and it's a good damn thing because I don't have any real answers. I have managed to get some decent prospects, but that's all".

Not Brooks, I suppose you are only going to see what you want to see. I don't care if Kouzmanoff played his whole career in Yellowstone Park, his numbers at the end of the day suck, period.

Terrible on base percentage, and he never scores even when he does get on. In fact I challenge you in all of your infinate stat wisdom to find some runs scored to plate appearances statistic and I'll bet you Kouzmanoff's 50/575 is one of the absolute worst in baseball. You could give him a few more runs if SD had a better lineup probably, but all in all he's just not very productive and that's not how a team like the Orioles are going to do business this year. We need more guys with at least modest speed who get on base a lot and score runs.

In reference to your question about rather having our current 3rd baseman, without even knowing who it is, my answer is yes. I'd rather have nearly anyone else, even Ty Wiggington if it comes to that. That's how much I think of Kouzmanoff and how wrong I think you are.

As far as Atkins goes, wether he plays first or third this year, I'd love to make a gentelman's bet with you about who will have better numbers in 2010' between Kouz and Garrett. The only thing that would concern me is that after you lose, you'll probably welch and say that it wasn't fair that Kouzmanoff had to play in such a big stadium with another bad lineup (boohoohoo)and that I should allow you to factor his road splits OPS+ whatever into the analysis.

Why would AM even need to comment on not getting a couple marginal players who we don't need?

flip -

How can you judge a player based on runs scored?

Was it Kouz's responsibility to get Kyle Blanks, Eliezer Alfonzo, Will Venable and a bunch of other bums/pitchers to knock him in?

If we did make a Kouz/Atkins bet, I certainly wouldn't whine if a lost. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Anyways, I'm sorry that I don't look at baseball stats in a vacuum. If a guy with a solid bat plays in an enormous stadium with a horrible lineup around him, his chances of putting up solid numbers are going to take a huge hit. Case in point: Matt Holliday's 2009 season. In a big stadium with an ugly supporting cast, his numbers didn't look very good. Then he moved to a more neutral park and found himself hitting behind an amazing ballplayer. The result? The best two and a half months of his career.

All of that said, I'm not going to make that bet, because, again, Kouz is in a giant stadium without much of a lineup around him and Atkins is in a hitters park along with a handful of solid bats.

To the "negative" guys on here... I think all of us are unhappy with the way the team has performed over the last 11 years. I was very vocal about how poorly run this organization was and how much I could not stand PA. Unfortunately, being from NJ originally, I had no one to complain to except friends who could care less about the Orioles. This blog gives us all the ability to express our opinion, positive or negative, to other oriole fans. You have every right to be angry with PA for what he has done to this team, especially over the past decade. You just have to keep in mind that not everyone has to agree with your views. We are all on here because we love the O's. Some of us are glass-half-full people while others are glass-half-empty people. Neither is 100% wrong nor 100% right, but we all have our reasons for the way we view the organization.

Would I like to see some superstar sign here? Sure. Do I think we already have some superstars in the making on this team? You're damn right I do. Give the kids a chance to grow up. We have one of the youngest teams in the majors, with most of the roster having less that 3 years of MLB experience! We have several quality young pitchers whom other teams would love to get their hands on. They just need time to develop into experienced major leaguers. This isn't a roster full of journeymen who were supposed to carry the team anymore. No more Marty Cordovas, Devi Cruzs, or David Seguis. This is a team with a foundation. Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Reimold, Matusz, Tillman, Patton... can you name a crop of players that we have had over the last 12 years that can hold a candle to these guys? We are not being sold on crap pitching prospects that were never high on the national scouting lists. These kids have shown their abilities and are wanted commodities. I am not saying that they will be the 2nd coming of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz, but they are talented, above average pitchers who we can build our team on. I believe Andy is building this team the right way. Do I wish it had been done by this organization 11 years ago? Of course. The fact is that it wasn't. I have seen more progress and potential in the Orioles in the last 2.5 years that Andy has been here than at any other time in the previous decade. I know that you will tell me that their record hasn't shown that they have gotten any better, but it if you truly believe that, then I feel sorry for you. This organization was a dumpster fire before McPhail took over and I am amazed at how quickly he has turned the minor league system around in just 2 years (Thanks Seattle!).
I, for one, am willing to wait a little longer for this team to fulfill its potential and take its place as one of the top 3 teams in the American League. Can I guarantee that this is going to happen? No, but I believe it will and that is what being a fan is all about...

Tony P,
Good post but just to warn you, someone named Wayne will actually say that is my post but just ignore him and he may go away.
You ever seen in the grocery store where the kid falls to the ground whining and screaming because he can't get the candy bar or whatever NOW, RIGHT NOW!!!......yeah meet Wayne, only he's grown up now, but he still acts like that.
He actually even posts as a girl named Barb and then proceeds to try to pick her up....I think he's very odd....
Like I say ignore him and he may go away...... or so some of us are hoping

not brooks,

I guess I would like to see someone speak for the Orioles who isn't 100% biased, like the few warehousers (using multiple names) on these blogs.

If someone is going to blindly follow some kind of so-called Plan, then they deserve being called out. Why?

Because at some point, enough is enough! Enough of PA and AM getting a pass at every turn.

It doesn't bother me that Pete gets upset at my post. Not in the slightest. But when he misrepresents a legend (in my opinion) like John Steadman, it's just wrong.

Of course John was a positive person. But when it came to work and sports, he held organizations responsible. People called him 'negative' when in fact, he was simply telling the truth. Pete left allot of the facts out of his reply to me.

The truth is that I will be right until the Orioles win.... and it appears I'll be right for a long time to come. A few nice, developing players won't change that.

In 2009, AM brought in stiffs like Eaton, Hill and Simon, while his two biggest surprises he had nothing to do with. And people have the nerve to come on here and say we're better than 2009.

What the hell does that mean? Better than what? Better than 98 losses? Better because his stiffs are gone?

So yes, I have an attitude. And for damn good reason!

Tony P in AZ,

Good piece Tony and I can tell it came from the heart. I'm a fan too, and was with "the plan" until early 2009 when I went over to the darkside.

The fans on here that you interpret to be negative do not believe in "the plan". You and others do, and that's what makes this fun.

I try to say often that I don't claim to be right. But as months and years under Mcaphail go by, I am going to claim victory at some point. Maybe in late September 2010 when the Orioles are 30 games out.

But I hope you are right and I am wrong. :)

Not Brooks, I figured that there was no better way to chanllenge your assertion about Kouzmanoff's productivity and how much those numbers would improve with a better lineup and a smaller park, than to simply compare Kouzmanoff to his own teammates on the Padres last year.

Not knowing a whole lot about the Pads outside of A-Gon, I found some interesting things.

A-Gon: 552AB 90R
Headley: 543AB 62R
Eckstein: 503AB 64R
Gwynn: 393AB 59R
Cabrera: 377AB 59R
and finally
Kouzmanoff: 529AB 50R

In fact you have go down to someone with 293AB on the Pads before you can find a player scoring fewer runs than Kouzmanoff. Ol' Kouz also was last by far amongst any of these players in walks and on-base percentage.

So, I'll ask you again, do you really think Kouzmanoff is going to help any team win? He was the least productive everyday player on the Pads and though downtrodon and obviously desperate, I think we Oriole fans should shoot higher than that, especially when you're talking about trading away prospects or someone like Felix Pie.

wayne,

Here's the thing. What's the media going to do that pathetic attendance can't seem to do? You bash Angelos for not listening to the fans, but suddenly think he's going to talk to his sons about "that guy Peter Schmuck at the Sun is really sticking it to us."

Pete could print anything short of libel and it won't make a difference.

Owners in other cities cave because they want to be liked. Angelos obviously does not care. He's not Mark Cuban sitting in the stands instead of the luxury box. He's not even Jerry Jones or Steinbrenner who realizes that a small profit on a loser is not as good as monster profits on a winner.

I'm sure someone has told him as much before by now. Pete is a great guy, but he could never change the fact that Angelos just doesn't mind being perceived how he's perceived.

wayne -

Your attitude towards the O's is fine.

It's your attitude towards other people on this blog that a lot of people don't appreciate.

djph -

If Kouz ever finds himself on a team that doesn't play in an extreme pitchers park that can put him where he should be in the lineup (6th or 7th), I certainly think he could help them win. Regardless of his OBP deficiencies, he's got 20+ home run pop and a very good glove.

And how many teams have a very good defensive third baseman who can hit 20 home runs? I've got the Rays, Nats and Tigers for sure with the Red Sox, Dodgers (iffy on Beltre's and Blake's bats) and Yankees (iffy on A-Rod's glove) as "maybes".

Tony,

The only problem is, it's smoke and mirrors.

You mentioned 'names'. Every team has names. Some of the names you mentioned may easily be bust. That's the way baseball goes.

You're also led to believe that our minor league system is one of the best. It's average! Now is that better than before? Of course! But do you really think because of a couple AM trades, we've turned a corner?

AM had nothing to do with Reimold and Bergesen. He didn't draft Weiters, although everyone gives him credit for signing him (which was a no brainer).

And did AM have anythig to do with Markakis and Roberts? Um, No!

You want other names of minor and major league players with that AM had nothing to do with?

The point is, names are names, and guys before AM brought in some decent names as well.

Problem is, the Orioles are no closer to having a winning team than they've had in years. The names do NOT = wins.

AGAIN this year, FanFest is promoting the young, developing players. It's laughable because it's been that way for years.

AM does NOT have a track record since 1991. As a matter of fact, his record is awful since then.

Oh, maybe he'll have a better record (slightly) than last year, one of the O's worst in history. After all, he didn't bring in guys like Eaton, Hill, Simon, etc..... not yet anyway!

Folks,

What I find most amusing, how many of you confuse the difference bwtween realism and negativism. For those that are new to this blog, everyone of those so called negative posters have acknowledged the good trades by AM the development of the minor leagues. That is old news, you know, now if you wanted to call us realists, the what have you done to improve the club lately, I;m fine with that but please don't include demonstrating the truthful facts and negativism.
So when we complain about the inactivity on quality free agents, or quality international players, please tell us who AM has brought us, were all dying for a great laugh! What we can longer laugh about is another embarrassing losing season, but just being realistic!

The truth will set you free~

May I introduce you to Ty Wigginton? I believe MLB rules only allow one mediocre third baseman on the field at the time. With Atkins under contract, Kouzmanoff would have given the Orioles three.

barb? this is your queue...

Pete,
would the orioles take Joe Crede as the next option for third base?

al? pablo?

ok, enough of the 'truth will set you free' signature line crap. Free form what? It's a baseball blog, full of opinion.
damn...

Jim66,

What's with your weird post? And where's the meeting this week?

lar, tired of rowe's signoff

don't know. waiting to hear.

Keith Rowe,

I find your insistance that you (or wayne) are some kind of prophets sent from God to spread the message to the good people of Baltimore amusing.

There is a difference between being overly negative about the team and being negative in general. Questioning people's intelligence is being negative.

PS You've been set free already. Remember? I took care of it a while ago now.

From Naplesnews.com Posted January 14, 2010

FORT MYERS — A lawsuit filed over the Baltimore Orioles deal to move their spring training home to Sarasota may get Lee County back in the game.

Two Sarasota citizen groups, Citizens for Responsible Government and Citizens for Sunshine, have sued the city, the county and three county commissioners, alleging violations of the Sunshine Law during negotiations with the team.

The suit also alleges state money granted to the county to help retain the Cincinnati Reds, who are holding spring training in Arizona this year for the first time after decades at Ed Smith Stadium in Sarasota, was improperly used instead to help land the Orioles.

Win or lose, the suit has already halted bond financing for $31 million in stadium improvements the county and city promised to land the team. Bonds cannot be legally issued while a lawsuit is threatened or pending.

That could mean re-opening of negotiations with Lee County to move the team into City of Palms Park in Fort Myers, the stadium the Boston Red Sox will leave empty in 2012 when they move into a new publicly funded $75 million complex north of Daniels Parkway in 2012.

The Orioles, through an intermediary, approached Lee County Commissioner Ray Judah when the Sarasota suit was still just a threat.

Judah hesitated to name the intermediary, but he e-mailed Tallahassee consultant David Bitner, a confidante of Orioles owner Peter Angelos, in November reiterating the promised improvements to City of Palms.

Judah said he was also invited to sit at the Orioles table at the governor’s annual baseball banquet Feb. 17.

“I did send an e-mail with the upgrades we committed to making to have the Orioles move into City of Palms,” Judah said. “I was also invited to sit at the Orioles table. Actually I’ll be at the Lee County table. I’m certainly going to talk with many baseball people including the Orioles.”

The lawsuit asks that the deal with the Orioles be declared void and that Sarasota city and county be banned from spending public money or incurring public debt on the stadium.

“Baseball may have an anti-trust exemption but they don’t have an exemption from the Sunshine Law,” said Mike Barfield a paralegal for the two groups attorney Andrea Flynn Mogensen.

“They’re used to doing business their way and getting what they want.”

The suit claims a county selection committee met with team officials outside public view — at the teams insistence, Barfield says — negotiating a deal that was later approved by both the county and the city.

“Our clients think there’s a better use for public tax money than for a baseball team owned by a billionaire,” Barfield said. “They can’t force them to make the right decision. The only remedy they have is to make sure the elected officials involved follow the law.”

Cathy Antunes, president of Citizens for Responsible Government, said that if the city and county had followed the rules there would have been no suit.

“If the negotiations had been conducted consistent with the law there’d be nothing to say,” she said.

The deal was closed, in part, using $7.5 million appropriated through the state Office of Tourism, Trade and Economic Development. The money was originally meant to convince the Reds not to leave, but once they left it was used to lure the Orioles.

The initial ruling by the Office of Tourism, Trade and Economic Development was that the money could not be used for that purpose. Only “arm-twisting” by the governor’s office, Barfield said, changed its mind.

“That was our position from the first,” said Judah, who was also negotiating with the Orioles before the Sarasota deal was struck in September.

Sarasota Deputy County Administrator David Bullock described the suit as “a little ripple that won’t be remembered in five years.”

“The Orioles are here,” Bullock said. “They’re here for 30 years. We speak with them virtually every day. The signs are up and the players are coming down.”

Tickets for this year’s spring training games at Ed Smith are in fact on sale now. Bullock said the suit may delay stadium renovations, but the team understands.

“They’re going to play in it (as it is) this year, and they may play in it next year,” he said. “They understand. They know exactly what we’re facing and they understand the time-lines.”

Bullock said county staffers negotiate hundreds of contracts with hundreds of vendors every year. Those negotiations take place at the staff level, with contracts then sent to commissioners for approval.

“The notion of secret meetings implies some decision not to do it in public,” he said.

If that’s true, Antunes said, it doesn’t make it better.

“I don’t follow everything the County Commission does on a daily basis,” she said. “But as a citizen I’m concerned not just with this one, but with how business is conducted on our behalf.”

The agreement with the team calls for renovation financing to be in place 30 days after the new stadium design is approved. That date, Bullock said, may not be met. He said the team knows that.

“Our work with the Orioles is very cooperative,” he said.

Barfield said the groups warned for two years they’d sue over the way negotiations took place, and offered several months ago to have a judge decide if the bonds could be issued. It’s too late now, he said.

“If there’s going to be a resolution our clients aren’t going to walk away without insisting on a public referendum (on stadium funding),” he said. “They want the people to decide, and they’ve always wanted that.”

In fact there was already a referendum. In November 2007 city voters rejected a bond package to improve the stadium to keep the Reds. The city then agreed to sell the stadium to the county for a dollar if the county could land a major league team.

“It doesn’t seem that the input of citizens is valued,” Antunes said.

Barfield said if it plays out in court the suit could easily take two years to resolve.

Lee County baseball consultant John Yarbrough said the county is carefully watching the situation in Sarasota.

“We’ve been following it all along,” he said. “Because until it’s really done it’s not done. We’ve followed it from the get-go. It’s not a done deal.”

Pete, do you expect the O's to go after Bedard before spring training or is there really no rush since he wont be ready till June?

Lastly, you said last year in Florida that Perez and Simon had the best stuff of anyone in camp so do you think that Simon could be a sleeper type guy in camp?

A healthy Joe Crede is a gold-glove 3rd baseman, a 20+ HR threat, and a proven post-season performer. Has anyone seen a healthy Joe Crede over the past 3 years?

Jim Thome, according to a mlb.com story, is begging for a job. Latest rumor is that the cash poor Rays want him to provide a left-handed DH to platoon with Pat Burrell.

Let's see, we need a clean-up hitter...Jim Thome qualifies as a legit #4 hitter while Joe Crede qualifies for disability benefits...your move Andy.

not brooks

You've been very dismissive of posters who want to see Michael Aubrey given a shot at first base. You have argued that despite his great defensive rep, since he tops out at about 20 HR power, there is no place for him on the team because it wouldn't help our competitive position against teams like the Yanks that have big boppers like Tex playing first base.

You are now using precisely the same line of reasoning Aubrey supporters use to argue on behalf of Kouzmanoff, "And how many teams have a very good defensive third baseman who can hit 20 home runs?"

The obvious question is, if a great glove doesn't make up for the power Aubrey gives up to big bopping first basemen, why would Kouz's great glove make up for the power he gives up to Longoria and ARod.

Hi flip, Not Brooks:

The fact that we are down to arguing statistics over Joe Crede pretty much tells it all relative to Macphail and the offseason"improvements" to the team.

People jump all over me when I state that Macphail is "planning to lose" again in 2010 but how else can his actions be viewed? How can anyone say with a straight face that Macphail has tried to make significant improvements to the team so that we can compete in 2010? And flip, please try to give me an honest answer without invoking 2011. The Orioles cannot afford to throw away 2010. The fan base may shrink at an alarming rate this year.

To me, all this offseason has proven is that there is no flexibility to "the plan".

tex is a gold glover AND a big bopper. Aubrey will be 28 and has played 40 MLB games.

To those who seem to have lost sleep over losing Kouz need to take a deep breath and realize how championships are won. Signing Kouz would not have put us over the top. In fact, oversigning for Holliday, trading the entire farm system for AGonz, or picking up has been veterans is not the way to do it either. We are not New York, face it. We can't just expect to buy a team every year. We need to be strategic and precise in every move we make. Maybe the reason why we haven't made many moves this year is because there aren't none to be made. We have more problems that a stop gap 3B or veteran SP can solve. We got to this position because year after year we would talk ourselves into guys like Marty Cordova, Jeff Conine, Jay Peyton, David Segui. Should i stop? I am frustrated too but if making this franchise competitive on a regular basis means stipping it down and building it back together for a few years then so be it. Until we be honest, we are going to keep talking ourselves into Crede and Delgado. Those are guys you sign to obtain depth for a playoff run not to a rebuilding team looking to overhaul 10+ years of losing.

I'm not sold on Kouz. He has a career .308 obp which, coincidentally, was Atkins obp in what, for him, was a disastrously bad year. I'd prefer to play Atkins at third and find someone else to play first. My call would be to take a flyer on Blalock for one year and hope that he bounces back. I don't like Crede's chance to rally as much, but he'd probably be my second choice.

I don't think ANY of these guys are contending caliber players (including LaRoche), so I absolutely agree that a one-year deal makes the most sense. I'm getting antsy that McPhail hasn't done anything either, but I still think the future is more important than the present for this team.

I've always been in favor of building from rookie ball though AAA. Organizational depth is the key for teams not named Evil Empire, Red Sox, Mets et al to be able to compete.

When McPhail took the helm, the Orioles were a mess (startling revelation, I know). He's pulled off excellent trades, a handful above average, a couple of pushes and a couple of dumps.

The organizational depth has been vastly improved through these trades. Joe Jordan gets all the credit for the draft successes with McPhail getting credit for the signings.

So, there is the start of something good in the minor leagues. Surely not Twins or Marlins depth, but the start of it.

The Orioles have begun to have some young talent making strides. Granted there had to be one, but Jones got the All Star nod last year. From the talent he has shown, I don't think that was a pick 'em, and I also think it won't be his last one.

I also think Markakis will end up with multiple All Star nominations. Both are stellar defensively.

In my opinion, the 1-2-3 of Roberts, Jones/ Markakis and Markakis/ Jones has the potential to be among the best in baseball. Weiters has 4-5 potential, Reimold 5-6.

Matusz, Tillman and Bergesen have 1-2-3 potential. Guthrie and Millwood are good 3-5.

Gonzalez will be as good as Sherrill was. Johnson will go back to being a top setup man. Mickolo could make a good 7th inning guy. Meredith is above average. Uehara and Hernandez should benefit from a move to the bullpen.

Castillo is serviceable, though if Perez shows anything he'll probably be the option over Castillo.

The problem...it's all potential. Roberts, Guthrie, Millwood, Gonzalez and Uehara have plateaued. The rest have untapped potential.

A great problem to have no doubt, but it's also a double edged sword. It can be hard times while waiting for the potential to be reached. You don't want them to be blocked, either.

But...
You can't just wait for the depth to get MLB ready.

The free agent market this season is mediocre. The top free agents aren't coming to Baltimore until the potential turns into production. It's a hard truth, but truth none the less.

Signing upgrades, such as LaRoche, still could have happened. The place holders can be obviously be traded. It didn't happen. McPhail should be held accountable for it.

The team is on the right track by having the up and coming youth. Kudos to McPhail and Jordan.

The team is on the wrong track by not signing temporary upgrades until the youth matures. McPhail should be held accountable.

I know that's a lot of dichotomy. But in my opinion, that's the ticket the O's bought this year, and we're all along for the ride.

Gil

You must be thinking about someone else. I haven't said one word about Joe Crede.

As far as your assertion that MacPhail is "planning to lose", its absurd. You may well have a good argument that the moves he's made will RESULT in a losing season, but you do no good service to it by suggesting that MacPhail, or any GM for that matter, would premeditatively set out to field a loser.

As far as improvements are concerned, let me list them for you.

1/ Millwood, a proven guy who can throw 200 innings will be starting instead of Hernandez or Berken. Upgrade.
2/ A better left handed closer in Gonzalez than Sherrill who we traded for a very good 3rd base prospect in Josh Bell who some people think will be up before the season is over. Two upgrades.
3/ Atkins at 3rd who has to have a rebound season, but at 30 years old is far more likely to do it than Mora at age 38. Upgrade.

If you add those improvements to steps forward by Weiters, Jones, Bergesen, Reimold, Pie, Matusz and Tillman, or even most of them, then I don't see how you with a straight face can argue it wouldn't be a much better club than last year's.

You would have to put your pessimistic frame of mind on pause for a minute and harbour a positive thought before you're going to see any of this.

huh???

I'm the one who mentioned Tex. The discussion I had with not brooks was more general. I didn't take from his remarks that he was limiting them to only good defensive first basemen. He can speak for himself.

huh???

Sorry. The 11:07 post was from me. I forgot to mention something else as well. You're right. Aubrey is 28. Since when exactly is it unheard of for a guy that age to get a start, particularly since the only reason he didn't get it younger was because of injuries.

Aubrey has had a good batting average at every level he's played. All he did last year was lend some credence to his numbers. Why are you so quick to dismiss him.

flip -

A third baseman who hits 30+ home runs is a rare breed. Only four third baseman hit 30 home runs last year. 11 first basemen did it. First base is the place where you hide your 30-50 home run hitter. Sometimes you get lucky and that guy has a great glove as well (Pujols, Tex), but generally, that's not the case. Third base is where you put the guy with the best reflexes and the best arm. Sometimes you get lucky and that guy hits 30+ home runs, but generally, that's not the case.

And again, proof over potential. Kouzmanoff has already hit between 18 and 23 home runs in the majors over the past three season. What has Aubrey done?

Chris in Federal Hill -

No one is suggesting that Kouzmanoff or LaRoche or anyone that we could have reasonably expected the O's to sign was going to put the team over the hump.

But when it comes to the infield corners, would you rather have:

A: a 28-year-old first base prospect with a history of back issues who might hit 20 home runs and a third baseman coming off a career worst season who's a .252/.324/.411 outside of the best hitters park in the game

or

B: a 30-year-old first baseman on a one year deal who has averaged a .500 SLG% and 26 home runs per season over the past four years and a solid defensive third baseman who's hit .284/.328/.477 outside of the worst hitters park in the game?

I'll take B, because, to me, Andy acquiring LaRoche and Kouzmanoff would have said, "Hey, I know we're not going to be a great team this year, but we've got this great core, and I think that improving our defense while adding a veteran 20 hr hitting third baseman and a veteran 25-30 home run hitting first baseman will go a long way in helping that young core develop." Andy acquiring Atkins and only Atkins says, "Hey, when it comes to offense, I'm only interested in acquiring the bottom of the bargain bin. I sifted through everyone else that was available and I found this guy who may rebound and have a solid year but may also be just plain terrible."

Prove me wrong, Andy. Prove me wrong...

no worries, wasn't trying to speak for NB...

seriously, folks, what's going on??? i thought this was supposed to be a year with grand improvements.

i love the upcoming rooks. matusz is legit from what i've seen. tillman, the book is still out on, though he has a very high ceiling. and bergy, showed much poise and potential, though i don't see him as more than a 3 for a great team.

still, we need some supplemental parts for now. we have been told this year that trmbley's job will hang on w/l record. with no additions, why would this year be any different than last. why not just replace him if you're not gonna give hm anythng new???

i'm so pissed at the 'offer' made to tex last year. to me, that is a clear indication of what we are, and will be. if we weren't willing to go deep for a home town hero, gold glove, switch hitting, masher... who will we EVER go after. we cannot solely depend on prospects. maybe a 'real' offer wouldn't have swayed tex to this hole, but if we didnt legitimately try for him, who will we???

face it, the O's are never going to compete with this ownership/front office. they DONT care. unfortunately, we do. and despite the bickering on this blog, we are all O's fans. it just sucks. i think it was Gil, who's kid became a yanks fan... $hit, i have a 5 year old and he loves baseball. how long before he turns to the dark side. very sad to think about.

how much more can this organization do to us??? 12 losing seasons, no significant additions, and a price hike. give me a break! who does business like that???

thanks

Hi flip,

I hope you are right about Atkins but signing a player coming off a bad season is more hope than aquiring proven talent.

This is Macphail's 4th year as GM and he could have spent some of this time bringing in some name talent rather than just rebuilding the farm system.

Millwood won 13 games last year flip, with a better team. Yes, he will eat up innings, I agree with you. There are just too many unknowns to predict that the team will be much better. There is no legitimate big right handed bat, 3/5 of the starting pitching staff have never won more than 7 games in the big leagues.

I have seen people touting Michael Aubrey at first so I went back and looked at as much scouting information as I could. He appears to have back problems and can't hit lefties. He is a platoon player at best. He has gap power and the Indians themselves said he needs to work on his fielding. If you look at his minor league stats he hit 56 home runs in 1860 AB's, an average of one every 33 AB's. If we say he will have the same frequency in the majors he would need 500 AB's to hit 15 home runs. I think we can dismiss the urban legend floated on the blog that he has 20 HR power.

Too many holes, flip, too many unknowns, and it did not have to be this way.

I know it upsets people when I say that Macphail is planning to lose again but I don't see how anyone can make the case that this team as assembled has a good chance to win 82 games. I wish it were so.

As I always say, I don't claim to be right and your opinions are well thought out. When I look at the roster I see 68 to 74 wins. And I call that losing again. I hope I am wrong.

Pete,

When do you think you'll be able to dynamite MacPhail out of his office for an actual interview? His paying customers would like to know. Maybe, he's hesitant to talk about what he hasn't done this offseason to improve the team?

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I don't know. Now that the Ravens are done, I'll be spending more time on baseball, so I suspect I'll be talking to him soon. Of course, Jeff Zrebiec talks to Andy and others much more regularly and does a great job of keeping everyone up to date.

The O's dug this decade old hole haphazardly signing FA's and not building a team. Right now there's a few guys out there that COULD help the birds.

Or they could be as helpful as Ty Wigginton. Space fillers on the roster until the minors start pumping out prospects.

The O's have a core to build around that they haven't had in years. And it only makes sense that there is talent coming up through the minors since they've been bottem feeders for so long. Got to get lucky in the draft every now and then.

But the difference at Frederick and Bowie the last two years is really real. It's not hype. The O's used to staff those rosters with about 1/2 a roster of fillers. Guys that were never making it to the majors and had flamed out at AAA.

The amount of potential major league talent coming through those teams now is real and increasing every year.

The O's scouting dept seems to have turned the corner and is drafting well. The on the field instruction in the minors seems much improved and the teams are playing better ball with younger more talented players. Instead of older guys playing out the string on their dream after they had became minor league FA's.

Bowie should have a team with some real rising talent this year. Britton is a real deal like Matusz was last year, he's just not on as fast a track. But he's another really talented LH starter with real quality stuff.

I want the O's to win now just as much as the next guy, but I also see real merit in giving a guy like Montenez or Aubrey some at bats at first instead of signing another one year stop gap.

If the O's go the stop gap route, Crede and Thome have excellent reps as leaders and good club house guys. Having Weiters suck up knowledge from a guy like Thome can't hurt. He's a guy that could DH and provide some stability and leadership in the clubhouse.

Healthy, Crede is a Gold Glove 3rd baseman with some pop in the bat, trouble is healthy is about 3 yrs ago. But he played well at Minn til he went down with the back last year. 15 hr in 90 games isn't bad.

Right now the O's are the destination of choice for guys like Millar. The only reason they'll except an O's contract is the hope of staying around the big leagues and getting at bats. Otherwise the O's are used to drive up the price on another team.

The only way out of that kind of mess is homegrown talent. When the team builds a core FA's will stop looking at O's offers like it's Confederate Money...

Gil -

Thanks for doing some legwork on Aubrey. Maybe your scouting report will encourage everyone to realize he's not a viable option to start full time at first base.

Fun fact: Excluding the HOF topics, almost 2500 comments on Pete's baseball topics since the Atkins deal became official. If someone at the Warehouse is watching, how long before they do something? Maybe there's a magic number. 2633 anyone?

if the o's can't get a power hitting first baseman why not bring back melvin mora? he's better than atkins and kouzmanoff. he had a down year last season, but he hopefully can bounce back. plus we don't need him for the full season if the prediction of josh bell to the majors by all star break is accurate. does anyone know if the relationship between mora and the o's has been broken beyond repair? if not this seems like a better move than giving up prospects for some average player.

"The O's have a core to build around that they haven't had in years."

So when are they going to start building around that core, MountainFan?

That had an amazing chance to do so with Teixeira and a great chance to do so with Holliday, not to mention several other players who would have been great additions to this team.

So when is it going to happen?

Cameron, well said about Crede and Thome. Crede was a great at 3B, but he simply can't stay healthy and with the condition he has, I think he is very close to the end of his career. Jim Thome should be the DH on this team. He is still feared, a great clubhouse guy and will provide more protection in the lineup than any of these other stiffs that the O's are looking at. Thome wasn't thrilled being a pinch hitter, but never complained and after seeing him destroy O's pitching over the last few years, he needs to be here ASAP!

Any truth to the rumor that the hold up in the Hendrickson signing is that they want him to dress up as the O's mascot for innings 1-5 so they can save some cash? Mark should do it because we all know that there are two girls that would love some sexy time with the O's Bird from the award winning MASN commercial.

not brooks,

Your 11:58 post is what makes me want to pull my hair out.

Teixeira should have been signed, no excuses. Overpay. Buy him a G5. Give him an island in the Bay. Whatever it takes. It would have improved the lineup top to bottom and would have shown the fans(and this year's free agents) they're serious about turning it around.

Instead, which free agents did they get? Koji Uehara, Cesar Izturis, Chad Moeller, Mark Hendrickson, Gregg Zaun, Ty Wigginton and Adam Eaton.

It's the same thing this off season. While Holliday isn't Tex, it still fills a need. He would rate as the best hitter on the O's as it stands today. Who's going to bat fourth EFFECTIVELY? Atkins? Scott?

I hope Atkins can return to form, but he's been declining for 3 years. Scott seems best suited 6-7.

It's tiring hearing about next year. The core is there. The money for the free agents is there. The fans are barely there.

It's time for the excuses to end. It's time to build this team with whatever improvement is out there. Blocking the minor leaguers is one thing. But they are MINOR LEAGUERS. Trade the place holders when the prospects are ready!!! It's not a new theory.

not brooks

Two points. 1/ What evidence do you have that either Tex or Holliday would have ever signed with us. That is pure presumption on your part as far as I can see with nothing to back it up.
2/ an opinion from a poster on here does not constitute a scouting report.

Gil

Michael Aubrey missed most of 05 with back problems. That wasn't the same reason he missed time after that. He broke a bone another year sliding into 2nd base and missed time with a serious groin pull. As far as his defence is concerned, here are a few quotes I easily found with a Google search that you apparently weren't able to find.

"When healthy, Aubrey is a superior defender."
"Aubrey is more athletic and superior defensively."
"he also had future Gold Glove written all over him for his work around the bag."

The fact that Millwood only won 13 games for Texas last year is largely happenstance. With an ERA of 3,67 it should have been more. If you watch much baseball you'd know that wins by a starter is dependant on other factors beyond a pitchers control. How many runs did they score for him. Did the bullpen blow a few saves in games he pitched etc.

I suspect you watch a fair bit of baseball. If so, then you knew before you said it what a BS argument you were running up the flagpole by talking about Millwood's win total. It's very revealing of your mindset that you would take a very good performance by Millwood last year and disingenuously try to find something negative about it. Again, I'm not surprised.

Pete... like in the episode of the Simpsons:Tree house of horror when the Advertisements came to life to kill everyone in Springfield... if you ignore them, they will just go away.

But if you ban him and he comes back, he's easily picked out by his acerbate writing style and delusional view of everything. Its the political equivalent of people who thought GW Bush had the WTC blown up to start a war. Like him or not, that is psychotic.

Otherwise, I advise you to begin to go Woodward and Bernstein on the Orioles/Warehouse/AM/Rachel Phelps for the LOSERS they are!!! Every waking hour Pete, we want you to expose their fraudulent ways, make PA open the books, and bring the criminal Andy MacPhail to justice!!!!

THIS IS BASEBALL!!! All I know is first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, "I'm a human being. God Dammit, my life has value." So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out, and yell, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!" I want you to get up right now. Get up. Go to your windows, open your windows, and stick your head out, and yell, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Things have got to change my friends. You've got to get mad. You've got to say, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open your window, stick your head out and yell, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

flip -

1. I have no evidence that Tex or Holliday would have signed in Baltimore. But I know that baseball players, especially those represented by Scott Boras, love money. And, with Mark Teixeira, the Orioles had a unique opportunity and they failed to come through on it. Their first offer should have been for 10 years and $200M and if that didn't work, they should have gone up. But they didn't. Let's not speculate on whether or not Tex would have or wouldn't have signed with the O's. The fact is that the O's didn't do what they needed to do to get him to come to Baltimore.

And that story is basically the same with every top quality free agent that has been on the market over the past two winters.

Anyway, the comment in question was in response to a guy who said that the O's have "a core to build around that they haven't had in years". I only brought up Tex and Holliday to support my question: The O's haven't done anything to build around said core. What makes anyone think they're going to undergo a paradigm shift sometime soon? When is that going to happen?

2. A quote from Gil:

"I have seen people touting Michael Aubrey at first so I went back and looked at as much scouting information as I could. He appears to have back problems and can't hit lefties."

Gil wasn't just spouting off random made up crap (a la "Aubrey should hit 20 home runs if he gets 650 at bats" or some version of that). He found scouting report info on Aubrey and repeated it.

flip,

The scouting reports I gave you came from the team who signed him. The bottom line is that there is no basis to project him to hit 20HR's in the Big Leagues.

I don't think my comments about Millwood were anything more than his record in 2009. He won 13 games and pitched a lot of innings.

For the purpose of trying to retain civilty on the blog I will restrict my comments to the subject and not the poster. This allows us to have a discussion about the Orioles and not each other.

Like shooting fish in a barrel...

You guys went ahead and made my point in your posts, but I'll underline for those of you that missed them.

The O's signed the FA's that would actually take their offers because they came with playing time and roles that the player was searching for.

Not one of you has ever made the point that Tex or Holliday would have ever considered an offer for a minute. Baseball is not football there is no salary cap that will drive players to bottem feeding teams just because that's where they can get paid.

Equal money being offered Tex was going to the Yankees. Guys that say we should have offered more are just ignoring the fact that the Yankees could have upped the ante at the last minute. Which is exactly what they did to other winning franchises. Baltimore and Washington were just being used to drive up the price.

For a premium FA to sign with a bottem feeder, the offer has to be so out of wack as to be borderline insane. See the Texas signing of A Rod as an example.
And when that happens the guy will find a way to get traded in two to three years. See the Texas trade of A Rod to Boston and then New York.

A Rod was so happy in Texas he was willing to pay millions to get out of town.
We don't need the same thing here.

My point is that FA's will come here when the core of homegrown products reach a tipping point where progress can be seen on the field. Tampa Bay is an example of that.

But Tampa is truely a small market team, the O's are one from about 15-20 yrs. of poor management. The O's real problems started way back with Eli Jacobs and when he was using the Yard as a major money machine.

The guy destroyed the O's minor leagues and nobody made a concerted move to repair the damage until recently.

My point is, and was, if you go to Frederick or Bowie you can see a difference in the minors that isn't fully apparent in Baltimore yet.

Even in the case of Weiters, you haven't really seen the guy's swing yet. I haven't seen a guy with near his talent come through the Carolina league in a long time. When he's on he can just crush the ball.

Help is on the way, it's just not going to be in the form of Type A FA's until at least next year. In the meantime we will see another wave of youth hit the yard again this year.

The O's could well end up as the youngest team in the majors, and there is talent amoung these guys.

In the meantime enjoy the progress of the young guys

MountainFan -

I'm hoping for the kids to improve just as much as you are.

But what happens if the kids don't improve as we hope? Won't Andy just say that 2011 isn't the right time?

Hi flip,

Here is one of the pieces that I found on Aubrey from the Indians Prospect Insider 2009:

"At this point, age and injuries have caught up with Aubrey where he no longer profiles to be an all-star calibre hitter and defender like he was coming out of college in 2003. His bat is now suspect at the major league level and he just is no longer the player now that he was pre-injury and coming out of college since the injuries have eroded his skills. He profiles now as a good organizational player but his days as a good major league prospect are behind him. The Indians removed him from the 40 man roster this offseason and outrighted him to the minors where he looks destined to be a fixture at first base and designated hitter for Triple A Columbus for most if not all of the 2009 season"

At that time he was 55th rated prospect out of 100 in the Indians minor laeage system.

not brooks

Top notch free agents aren't going to sign with a team in a 12 year losing streak coming off a 98 loss season unless that team offers an outrageously large contract. That applies to Tex, Holliday and "every top quality free agent that has been on the market over the past two winters."

Really. Gil "found scouting report info on Aubrey and repeated it." Got a link to that. I'd be interested in reading it.

I didn't say anything remotely close to "Aubrey should hit 20 home runs if he gets 650 at bats." I said that he averaged 20 HRs for every 650 PAs in his minor league career.

I have never so grossly misquoted you. Any problem with showing me the same courtesy.

Posted by: Gil | January 18, 2010 3:28 PM

And that's why he was traded for a player to be named later.

Has that player been named yet?

flip -

I wasn't quoting you. My Aubrey quote was more of a made up bit that reflects that crazy thought of just about every other Aubrey lover on this blog. Sorry for the miscommunication.

Anyways, I think that starting with a 10 year, $200M offer to Tex would have filled the "outrageously large" requirement. Especially if they went up from there.

I was thinking that if the O's did try to sign Miggy, why not have him play SS? I am not that impressed with Cesar. I would rather see Miggy become the 3rd member of the 40-50 doubles club along with Nick and Brian than a light hitting SS like Cesar. I would use Cesar as a defensive replacement plus he can play 2B so essentially he takes Andino's spot on the team. I know people want him back here at 3B, but I guess I am not sure why Atkins would be better at 1B than 3B?

I don't think Miggy will be asked back, but I don't even know which teams are even looking at him so if they reached an accord, I think the O's would have one of the most balanced lineups from 1-9 if they used Miggy at SS.

I do find it hard to believe that Miggy is still a free agent. His power is down, but he still hits a lot of doubles and hits for avg. It would be intriguing to see both Miggy and Bedard back. I don't think Bedard will ever reach the heights he did during his breakout season, but I think if you use the guy as a 6 inning pitcher and not extend him, he still has the ability to dominant a game. I don't think you can have enough pitching, as last year we had 37 pitchers in camp and by the end of the year AM was asking Anonymous, Not Brooks, Schmuck and Gil, to help the team out.

The O's did ask me to try out last season, but I talked too much about my FIP and WAR too much, so they cut me before camp started.

flip,

I wasn't quoting you about Aubrey nor did I say I was. I was referring to numerous posters who think he is the second coming of Jim Gentile.

I gave you one example about Aubrey that I dug up above. I wasn't trying to start an argument, but merely point out that Michael Aubrey was once a top ten prospect for the Indians but they gave up on him due due chronic injuries that have eroded his abilty and potential.

Take it easy flip and lighten up a bit. This is supposed to be for fun.:)

Say Pete,

Just read the short article about Tejada getting food, medicine and water to Port-au-Prince, and then going there himself on Sunday.

When we went to the D.R. 3 years ago Tejada's name consistently came up when people realized we were O's fans. He does a ton of good in the D.R. (they compared him to Sosa who they alleged did nothing for the poor).

Here we are 6 days removed from the quake and the US still has not gotten food, water and medicine into the capital while Tejada finds a way to get it done.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think it's fantastic what Miguel has done, but let's not blast anybody else just yet. It takes time to mobilize the kind of effort that is necessary to give long-term relief to that ravaged country. The USNS Comfort is on the way from Baltimore with dozens of doctors and nurses, and tons of supplies have been sent there, only to be stuck no tarmacs because it's a logistical nightmare.

not brooks

Alright. So the Orioles offer 10 years and 200 million for Tex. Any idea how high the Yankees were prepared to go. If not, then you can't begin to know if we could have got him.

What if the bidding got up to a Yankee offer of 10 years/$250 million. It's what they gave ARod isn't it. How high were you prepared to go.

Seriously. With Tex perfectly aware that he had a shot at being in the playoffs in 6, 7 or even all 8 years of his contract with the Yankees, and having that number of shots at the WS, do you really think that another 10 million from the perennially losing Orioles would have been enough for him to pass that up,

Said without malice and in good humor, if you believe that then I want some of whatever it is you're smoking.

flip -

I'm assuming you were the Anonymous at 4:58. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I have no idea what it would have taken to get Tex, and I honestly don't care how much it would have taken. It's not my money, and considering his bat, his glove and his hometown status, he was worth the moon to the Orioles.

In all honesty, I think that if the O's offered two more years and $40-50M more guaranteed than the Yanks, Tex would have come to Baltimore.

As you said, we don't know how high the Yanks were willing to go, so we can't really speculate here, but that wasn't my point.

My point was that the O's didn't make a serious attempt to acquire a franchise changing player who meant more to them than any other team.

To all -

SI's Jon Heyman has officially lost his mind. His recent article names the Orioles as the 4th best offseason performer.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/18/top.offseasons/index.html?eref=writers

Gil

You have me scratching my head and wondering. Why would you say, "I wasn't quoting you about Aubrey nor did I say I was. I was referring to numerous posters who think he is the second coming of Jim Gentile."

I went back and checked all your posts for today and nowhere did you make any such remark to anyone, Why would you feel the need to clarify something you never said in the first place.

It was someone signing on as not brooks who I referred my comment to about quotation. He gave an eerily similiar response to what you've now just said about an hour before you did. It was, "I wasn't quoting you. My Aubrey quote was more of a made up bit that reflects that crazy thought of just about every other Aubrey lover on this blog."

While there is nothing wrong with posting under different names per se, you've to keep better track of the name people are responding to or you give away the game. I have no advice to give in terms of how profoundly sick it is to be posting messages back and forth to yourself as you have here today several times. Get help.

FanFarce.....

A few special booths everyone should check out this year:

- The 12 Losing Seasons In a Row Booth: (You get to talk to a Pirate fan who repeatedly says 'you think you have it bad')

- The 'It's Not About This Year Booth: (You get to watch a video jointly produced by MASN, 1057thefan and The Sun that explains why 'It's Not About This Year'. Predictably, they use a tape from 2008).

- The #26 of 30 Payroll Booth: (You get to hear a talking head explain how difficult it is for a small market team to spend competitively. Note: Word is there will be a person outside the convention center with a megaphone dispelling this lie).

- The We're Better Than Last Year Booth: (Tom Davis explains how the O's are better because they no longer have players like Eaton, Hill, Simon, etc. Word is, he won't acknowledge fans who say 'hey Tom, who brought in those stiffs'?)

- Players Who Andy Didn't Bring In Booth: (Autographs from players like BRob, Markakis, Bergesen, Reimold, Weiters, etc...). (Word is Tom Davis will constantly roam over to say 'but Andy signed Weiters).

Other interesting Booths to check out:

- The Why The Orioles raised Ticket Prices Booth:

- The Why We Don't Have The Worst Corners In Baseball Booth:

- The We Don't Need A Proven Clean-Up Hitter Booth.

- The Why It's Ok To Have Three Rookie Pitchers In The Starting Rotation Booth.

- The Why You're Called Negative Because You're Not With The Plan Booth:

- The How To Be A Warehouser Booth:

- The We're Much Better Than When AM Got Here Booth:

- The Angelos and Sons Booth: (Word is this booth will be empty as the boys are scheduled to be at a NY event).

Stay tuned for additional exciting Booths to be announced.....

FanFarce - Be There!

flip,

I have posted under one name and one name only since this blog started and people who post here know that and so does Pete.

I will not be goaded into trading insults with you.

For all of the years on the blog I have never encountered someone on the blog who I could not communicate with nor do I desire to do so any further, until now.

Flip,

You had no cred before, but now you've embarrassed yourself.

It's common knowledge on these blogs that you go by multiple names.

Continue to do so, it doesn't matter..... just as you don't matter.

And by the way, you just insulted yourself with your 'profoundly sick' line. That in itself is hilarious!

Bye Bye Flip (aka Sybil)

Flip,

Layoff Gil, unlike many of the posters on this board he is no imposter. I find it unbelieveable that you Kool Aid Drinkers and Warehousers constantly look for an angle to support your pathetic positions. Look at the last 13 years, look at the progress we made from 2007-2009, I think you will find all you need. Look at AM's record since 1991. That's a lot to look at but I assure you, you won't like what you find. Look at the Orioles payroll from 1999 to 2009. Put all that together and demonstrate your ignorance one more time in telling us how we have turned the corner! You can't, so you try and accuse one of the most faithful and consistent posters on this blog of using multiple screen names. Just pathetic, when you have no argument, you default to discrediting one of the people who can call a spade a spade!

The truth will set you free!

Wayne has posted as me before and it's totally juvenile and classless.
Flip, if he would post as me he would post as Gil or anyone else. He is an agitator and I hope Pete will just not allow him to post anymore as he just tries to stir up trouble.

Pete,
Can you tell if someone posts under various names? Most of the time it's meaningless but when they do it as a regular poster, it's shows total disrespect etc. Can't you just bar the person who would post as a person who regularly contributes?

BF = Lil *itch

Dude your such a baby hahhahaha

PETE! Please make these guys stop picking on me wahhhhhhh!! LOL gold!

I like men

I live with my mom

I listen to coldplay, shop at trader joes and read graphic novels

Guys stop ruining bfs online rep! He needs it to live. Well that and World of Warcraft.... World of Warcraft and hot pockets...... World of Warcraft, hot pockets and online porn.... and poker......

I have never posted as anyone but wayne. If I posted as bf, i'd likely throw up..... you're that disgusting!

No one cares about you bf. You are classless and you're a clown.

You can keep posting whatever you'd like, but people laugh at you. They also laugh at the other names you go by.

So yes Pete, please have your computer guru do what bg suggest. Maybe that way, you can expose this this piece of lard....

"MIAMI (AP) — The Florida Marlins spent some more money, agreeing to a $7.8 million, one-year contract with second baseman Dan Uggla."

The Marlins are spending some money instead of trading talent away. Interesting.

Wayne,

Did you get your fanfest tickets today? Mine came to the office this morning so I'm sure all of the season ticket holders have them or will be getting them shortly.

Wayne, I have to admit that was a funny bit that you did on fanfest. I do go every year and I am taking my son and two of his 15 year old friends to check it out. The optimist in me says that right now the Orioles are 0 and 0 for 2010. I know that won't last long, but it is what it is. Have you looked at the list of fee agents who are still on the board? I see Jermaine Dye is still out there, Hank Blalock, of course Jim Thome. Do you think that one of them will end up in Baltimore?

How about the kid Macdougal who pitched in relief for the Nationals last year? He can really light up the radar gun, I wonder what he has left. The remaining list is interesting and is full of sloppy seconds for Macphail to mull over, which is just his niche. Some on the board are suggesting that the Orioles should re sign Melvin Mora.

Hey Gil,

Yeah, I'll be there! Why not?

Usually, there are a few old timer O's around and they're great to see.

I refuse to get anywhere near the question and answer sessions however. Especially the one where AM may be on. To see the warehousers step up the the mike to kiss his you know what, is simply sickening.

And listen, I don't hold anything against the young players. It's not their fault what's happening, and I truly wish them the best.

As for remaining fa's, I really do believe AM will bring someone else in on the extreme 'cheap'..... some stiff like Crede. I hope I'm wrong. The problem is though, we never are.

Enjoy it with your son. I think you said he's a Yankee fan. I get that... I really do!

For the benefit of those wishing to make up their own minds about what I said in my 5:56pm post, please read not brooks post at 2:48pm Jan 18. At the bottom he said, in quotation marks, "Aubrey should hit 20 home runs if he gets 650 at bats."

That was in response to me saying previously that Aubrey averaged 20 HRs for every 650 PAs in his minor league career. In my 3:29pm response I said, "I have never so grossly misquoted you. Any problem with showing me the same courtesy."

In response, not brooks answered at 3:38pm, "I wasn't quoting you. My Aubrey quote was more of a made up bit that reflects that crazy thought of just about every other Aubrey lover on this blog. Sorry for the miscommunication."

So far so good. not brooks put something in quotes that I responded to, then responded back to clarify things.

This is where it got bizarre. At 4:39pm, Gil said the following. "I wasn't quoting you about Aubrey nor did I say I was. I was referring to numerous posters who think he is the second coming of Jim Gentile."

Do you see the problem. If you take the time to read every one of Gil's posts today, not once did he wrap quotes around a statement about Michael Aubrey and direct them to me. He would have no reason to believe he that he did, other than if he was also not brooks and had indeed made the quote.

Simply put, the mystery person was conducting simultaneous conversations with me under two different log in names. He mixed up something I'd said to one of his personas and answered me using the other one. Oops. Real big and very revealing oops.

flip and others,

bf goes on the sites with multiple tags. Aside from having multiple names, he also goes on as bf, saying rude things to himself, hoping it'll make people feel bad for him.

It's beyond pathetic, but answers many of your questions.

Wayne, why would you NOT take the very real opportunity at Fanfest to ask AM a few questions? You have spent hours namecalling and otherwise kicking the shit out of the guy, but when presented with a chance to call him on his performance, to confront one of the two men who seem to be the bane of your Oriole-fan existence, in front of an interested audience who by your account mostly feel as you do, you come up with some sorry lame-ass excuse about why you won't.
Man-up willya? Tell Andy your version of the truth. You are supremely convinced that you have truth on your side, so I just don't see how that could be a bad thing.C'mon folks, what do you think. Shouldn't Wayne lead the charge?

C'mon Wayne, don't disappoint me. Don't leave me to think that you are nothing more than a man of inaction, a suit full of bluff, with a grandiose sense of self-importance and a stupendous sense of false bravado.

wayne,

I'm just curious...when did "clown" not become calling someone a name? I remember you telling off those who accused you of calling people names.

Oh how the self-rightgeous have fallen.

Gil,

I am glad you mentioned McDougal who I have supported bringing in. He is not a master of control and will frustrate fans with numerous baserunners but he features a devastating sinker which even top hitters struggle to drive. The O's need to step up and offer him a contract or watch the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays scoop him up for peanuts. Trust me, the last thing A-Rod, Pedroia, Youklis, etc. want to see is this guy bringing a 96-mph power sinker in on their hands.

flip -

What's going on?

Are you suggesting that Gil and I are the same person?

I apologized for my quote. The only reason I put it in quotes is because way to many people have suggested that Aubrey could/will hit 20 homers if given enough playing time. I guess my apology wasn't enough.

Whatever is going on in your head, know that Gil and I aren't the same person. Check back on previous posts to see how often we disagree. Why would someone have alter egos that disagree with each other? Do you really think that someone would go that far just to mess with you?

You people are missing the point of this new Orioles mess…
AM was the wrong hire to being with. He did some good in Chicago but ultimately resigned his job because he would have been fired or was told to resign his job. He is a relic and we didn’t need him here we needed someone with a knack for the current game being played. There are GMs out there with better more fresh approaches that could have made us cheap faster and not take as long to rebuild or at least show some little progress in the Ws and Ls. Andy came here because Angelos is a bad owner and made the decision based not on improving the team but improving the business side of the Orioles to make him more money. As long as Angelos is owner this team will be a novelty act that generates money for Angelos.

I guess we could have a discussion about whether AM was the right hire. Maybe then we could consider a few things: 1)Besides Epstein, one of the Disciples of Beane,which GMs with this new approach,with this understanding of the new game, have won anything of note? 2)If this team were any cheaper any faster, can you imagine? Isn't that one of the sticking points on the blog,the opinion that the Orioles are considered cheap? And a few more wins still gets you lumped in the L category. You must know that from reading the blog that a few more wins don't cut it.
3)The guy has been on the job 3 years.Didn't people on here at least decide that the organization is in far better shape now than 3 or 5 or 7 years ago?
4)I guess we could discuss whether the new breed of GM is any good at the business side.
Is it not their job to build an efficient successful organization? If not, they don't have a job. Just because your 28 years old and have an MBA and did some work for Beane does that automatically make you any good at anything.I'll give you an example of the new breed of GM who was clueless:Ricciardi did a nice job screwing up Toronto in his short stay up there. The new breed of GM who understands the new game ran that team into the toilet.
Jeez, how have the Phils done it with that old man Gillick at the helm?

Not Brooks,

Who do you prefer, Crede or Tejada at third? Looks like that's what it is coming down to. By the way, if you could have one Oriole autograph, who would it be? I am taking the boys to fanfest this weekend and could get it and send it to Pete for you.

I hope to to meet Andy Macphail and tell him that jim66 wants to know when he is going to spend some of the profits his boss is hoarding. :)

I know he is not one of your favorites but you have to admit that the piece Wayne did on fanfest was funny.

As far as the other thing is concerned, I acknowledged all of the posts under my real name, Gil, are mine and you did the same for yours. I am confused as to what the issue was. I was just trying to engage in sort of a three way discussion about the merits of Michael Aubrey, and I did post one of the scouting reports from the Indians Prospect Insider.

Jim,

Thats interesting.... Was JPs Blue Jays better than this AM era of Orioles? Think about it.

That's how you are going to defend the tenure of JP and grade AM's 3 years as head of the sad-sack Orioles? Who could finish 4th or 5th? The Blue Jays were in a far different place than the O's the last 3 years, and JP succeeded in doing nothing more than driving that organization, like I said, into the toilet. His work with that team has been panned by anybody who knows anything about baseball. From the contracts he handed out, to botching the trade of Halladay.
He got fired.
Think about it.

Jim,
Am I defending JP? All I said was to think about the two different eras. So far in the first 3 years I would say JP was much better in my opinion because he had a clear vision of what needed to be done, not a dreamy plan that has loose ends and the wait and see tactics of AM also he had a better owner. We don’t know what the future holds for AM but so far I am really not impressed and think that in the Orioles situation that they needed a GM that brings something new to the game. They could have grabbed one of Billy’s lieutenants or someone else with answers but Angelos compromised the team and selected a yes-man rethread that’s glory days are long over. He did this to benefit himself only. Angelos would not even accept someone proper to fix the team in the first place and even if he did no matter what GM they bring in he won’t be able to do his job to the level they need to fix this mess. Angelos vetoes trades and messes around and wont aide to the logical progression of this team which is a critical role an owner must play. Until Angelos sell this team off we will have a unwatchable loser of a team.

That last post was me sorry

Angelos only hired Andy Macphail because he is the closest thing he trusts to the new way baseball is being done. Orioles failed at being the yanks so Angelos assumes he can play moneyball or act like the Rays. Only problem it’s a halfassed effort just like when they tried to be the yanks. The greed of Peter Angelos makes Gordon Gekko’s look like Childs play.

Maybe I will Jim... Maybe I will!

Mike D,

I'm not so sure Andy Macphail was the wrong man for an important job, which was to rebuild the farm system. He has done good job from that respect and has been filling the pipeline with prospects.

In my opinion, however, he is the wrong man to move the team forward to the next phase, which is to start winning now. He has focused entirely on the farm system and ignored the opportunity to upgrade the talent level on the field and the dismal 2009 results reflect that. I know, I know we can argue until the cows come home about whether or not the Orioles should have been active the last two offseasons in the name free agent market, but the bottom line is that Macphail is rolling all of the dice again this year on the prospects and the addition of a few stopgap players.

The Orioles are cheap. Andy Macphail was apparently dynmamited out of hiding today and was interviewed by Jeff Zriebec in the Baltimore Sun. Macpahil admitted that the Orioles thought that Andy Laroche was just a little too expensive, same with Kouzmanoff. Are you kidding me? Too expensive? We are not talking Mark Texiera here or matt Holliday here.

In my opinion, The Andy Macphail era should be over this year. He is far too cautious to recommend spending the type of money that it will take to get this team into the playoffs in 2011, which should be the goal after 5 years on the job.

3 years is now an era? that's ridculous to call 3 years an era. What type of team and organization did he inherit? And from whom?
Your point is that over a 3 year span the Blue Jays won the race to finish fourth. And JP led that charge? So he's better than AM?

JP's vision as you call it ended with no championships and with him getting fired.By the same owner, for pretty much wrecking the team.
He signed average players to big contracts that the new GM now has to get out from under.
Great business sense there.
He did the opposite of what a Beane protege would do!

Of course you can't defend him.How can anyone defend his performance as GM?

It is your opinion as to why PA hired AM. Not fact.
From all accounts, AM has a free hand in running this organization. Give me an example since AM has been here of PA stepping in and scuttling one of his ideas.
You just make stuff up, trot it out like you know something no one else does, consider it fact, and want to argue it as fact.

Who would you have hired as GM?

While you're at it, explain Gillick and the Phils. And give me an example of a Beane protege who has been so wildly successful that he needed to be hired here...
And isn't Beane's MO to build a low cost winner where young players acquired thru drafts and trades account for the lion share of the ML players? How does that fit into your gripe about PA and business and profit. So if AM produces a winner at 75m bucks, you'll just be another one lining up to say he should be spending as the O's make too much money.

I don’t understand how Andy Laroche and Kouzmanoff are too expensive… If so why did the A’s end up with Kouz? This team is setup just like last year to fail. The Wiggy/Atkins combo and 3 rookie pitchers in the lineup is similarly bad to last years starting pitching nightmare or the SS disaster/pitching the season before. Not to mention how do you bring back Dave Trembley?? I am going to stop right there and not list my many reasons I think Andy is the wrong guy but I think he has done all he can do by fixing our minor league system and now we need someone else to take control and manage the big league team.

Gil -

I'd take Miggy in a heartbeat.

Gil: if your so happy with your team from York, why even bother posting? the negitivity on this blog is pathetic! go ORIOLES!

O's fan in N. Cali,

Sooo, it sounds like you don't like my ideas. I'm just having fun, you should too!

o's fan in n. cali,

The negativity isn't on this blog. The negativity is on the field.

Losing = Negativity! Always has, always will!

The only thing McPhail has up his sleeve is his watch.... and he may be hiddinig some money that he was supposed to use on players salaries.

Don't we already have the ultimate stopgap - Ty Wigginton? It was interesting to see on Baseball Reference who his offensive numbers compare closest with:

#7 - Joe Crede
#8 - Garrett Atkins

Seeing this I am convinced we should just clone Wiggy and start him at all 9 positions instead of wasting the time finding players just like him. Oh wait, perhaps at the same time we can correct his 2 small genetic flaws. That being an inability to field a batted ball and the propensity to swing at the first pitch 80% of the time.

World Series - here we come!

OK, Gil you make some great points. Here's my take. Leave the team as is for this year. It promises to be better than last year. Give the kids a chance to develop. Weiters just may become a .300 30 100 guy this year. That would be fun. See if Aubrey is as good as he looked last year. He's 28 and healthy. Have a great draft again this year. BUT, this offseason trade some of your top youngsters for a Feilder/Gonzales AFTER securing a long term contract at a LOT OF MONEY. Then, go for the best free agent pitcher in the off season who will be interested because of the big gun you just picked up and the development of the kids. DO NOT WAIT FOR ALL THE KIDS TO DEVELOP. I'm 63 and may not live that long!

Pete's reply: I think it's fantastic what Miguel has done, but let's not blast anybody else just yet. It takes time to mobilize the kind of effort that is necessary to give long-term relief to that ravaged country. The USNS Comfort is on the way from Baltimore with dozens of doctors and nurses, and tons of supplies have been sent there, only to be stuck no tarmacs because it's a logistical nightmare.
************
Agreed- The air traffic control tower is a fold out table and equipment. It is much easier to get one guy and a truck through than an entire military convoy. A US military plane circled for 5 hours waiting on private jets to land.

Jim,

So you think the Red Sox stink too? They modeled that team after the A's formula too. Dont just bring up JP.

No, I don't think the Red Sox stink. The Red Sox have a real nice minor league system. They've taken some of Beane's ideas regarding player evaluation and developing a bunch of homegrown arms(though it's getting tougher to find them,but you have to like the 2 they have), thrown in some Bill James, thrown a bunch of money at it- a payroll of about 150m. - and voila...
Let's not forget that they had Manny in left, and got lucky signing Ortiz, who has had a nice career there.
I said in my earlier post that I would have liked to have seen Beane take the job in Boston, because I don't think his ideas necessarily exclude spending money, just getting value for your dollars. (I don't think JP is an example of Billy Beane on money, do you?) I don't know if Beane would be spending 10m on a closer, or 13m on that right fielder who seems to hit nobody but the Orioles and plays more like a 3m dollar guy. (I didn't check the stats, it just seems that way to me, so forgive me if the numbers against the O's prove me wrong.)
I'll get wacked around for this, but if the O's pitching can improve, they are not that far behind the Red Sox. I bet Epstein would trade his 4 outfielders for the O's outfield without hesitation. (Why spend 6m on Mike Cameron when you have Adam Jones for 400k, in true beane-james fashion?) Get the O's a big bat at first(or third as the case may be), and they won't be going 3-15 against them any longer.