"His arrival certainly alters the chemistry of the offensive attack"

Chemistry? :-) You are much too good of a wordsmith for this to have been innocent... I laughed.

Just a note to non-Miggy Orioles: remember not to touch any supplements brought in from Miggy, including ones labeled "B-12".

I'd agree with assuming that Tejada settles in to the 4 hole because he's the most reliable run producer in the lineup.

He's going to be motived to get another deal, so I'd expect him to come out swinging a hot bat.

I read a few weeks ago that Trembley liked Pie in the 2 hole. If he goes with Pie in the 2 hole to get a LH bat behind Roberts, does he drop Jones all the way to 5th or 6th in the lineup?

If Atkins can have a bounce back year, this could be a decently potent lineup. Markakis and Jones will have a lot more protection then last year.

There seems to be much more competition for PT. One guy that's been largely forgotten is Montenez, It really looks like he'll have a tough time making the roster unless he has a monster spring.

Mountain, Montanez could be a good bench guy & 4th OFer, but he will have to hit .750 to beat out Pie. AM has a real man crush on that guy I fear.

I might switch Atkins and Wieters, but this seems pretty reasonable for Opening Day against Shields or Garza.

Steve D., I sort of agree. I like Nolan 5th, Scott 6th, Wieters 7th followed by Atkins and Izzy.

i really like the offensive potential of this lineup. what i fear is how the pitching will do this year. seems as if we are always waiting for the young pitchers to "develop."

I guess this move gets us out of last place and into 4th place in the division.

I think this lineup has good potential. I personally am really hoping the O's sign Bedard and have him pick up the #1 spot in the rotation. I think Millwood is not a true number 1, he doesn't have the grit to be a good ace. Bedard has that quiet calm that brings a lot of success for him. Bedard 1, Millwood 2, Guthrie moves back to 3 where he will be a much more effective starter in the league, then Bergesen 4, and Matusz 5. I believe that if Bergesen can pick up where he left off, and Matusz can do the same, we might be looking at a legit rotation. Bedard can get you 10 wins, as can Millwood. At a 3, I'm extremely optimistic that Guthrie could as well, Bergesen is better than a 4 man in the rotation, so that can't hurt either. We all know that Matusz can do well here too. I'm a lot more optimistic this year than I was last year. The offense is there, we just have a tendency to give up too much, but with this staff, we might be setting ourselves up nicely for 2011 to make a run. This year we at least get on the map again, and maybe that will draw some big names here next season when we'll truly need a big bat. Again, I'm a fan just like the rest of you all, I have optimism, but I've stuck by these O's for 24 years now, and I, alike a lot of the posters feel the same way, optimism is just getting too old these days, but this team is better. In a division such as ours though, it still probably won't be enough, not yet. I still like the direction that they're heading though, much better than in the past.

Much improved lineup over opening day last year, especially if Atkins bounces back at all.

I assume Scott as the DH would be against RHP. Who do you think gets the LHP DH AB's? Pie?

Ive never understood the logic of hitting Jones 2nd or 5th. The guy has more raw power then anyone on this team. Also if the 1-2-3 hitters go down 1-2-3, he makes a great option to lead off the second because of his speed.

I thought Matt Holliday was hitting cleanup? Oh, I forgot.
He might have blocked some of the "prospects" and wasn't worth the money he got anyway.

against RH

Roberts
Pie
Markakis
Tejada
Wieters
Jones
Scott
Atkins
Iz

LH

Roberts
Markakis
Jones
Tejada
Weiters
Atkins
Reimold
Wigginton
Iz

Unless Luke Scott is traded, it looks like a platoon of Pie/Reimold and Scott/Wiggy.
Many people want Reimold to play every day, including myself, but not if it blocks Pie.
I'd rather see a Pie/Wiggy platoon to start, with Reimold moving from left to dh accordingly.
Maybe AM will wait to see how healthy Reimold and Pie are before making the space clearing trade.

...and he wouldn't have wanted to come here anyway. Did I miss anything?

Gil - yes, we don't want you here. go away.

Pete - I can see your dilemma with the #2. Do you (or DT) see Jones as a #4 or #5 ever with this group?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Sure. He'll be a big-time run-producer, but he's got to learn how to lay off the ball that falls off the outside part of the plate.

Ugh!,

Talk about an UGLY 4 through 7.

4) Miggy - Anything but a prototype clean-up hitter....accept on the O's.

5) Scott - Even though Miggy is a lousy 4th, pitchers will pitch around him to get to Scott. Scott at #5 is simply laughable!

6) Atkins - Just a pure stiff This guy is just terrible.

7) Reimold - Anyone reading ever had achilles heal surgery? And he says he's still sore?

Most important though Pete.... The O's were one of the worst teams in the AL at scoring runs last year. Where did they improve in this area?

James C,

You still wanna make that bet? I just don't want to be accused of taking advantage of you.

How does this Back-To-The-Future addition of Miggy at 3B square with the plan to bring up Josh Bell? I haven't heard peep about this.

Are the O's still planning to bring up Bell this Summer, a la Wieters in 2009? If so, will they then try to trade Miggy, or platoon him w/ Bell and possibly also use him as a DH or at SS?

As far as getting a big bopper, I hear Raffy's still available.

Wayne,

"except", not "accept".

"heel", not "heal".

Spelling Bee,

Thanks!

Gil, Your cynicism is totally out of place.

Holliday signed the largest contract in Cardinal frachise history: seven years for $120M. There's no way on earth he's worth that kind of money and Andy MacPhail was smart not to get caught up in Scott Boras' web with that one.

And it's not necessarily a matter of Holliday not wanting to come here (he has two close friends on the team--Brian Roberts and Garrett Atkins--so he could have felt at home), rather him wanting to be in St. Louis more.

After all, what player would prefer to play for the Orioles (or any other rebuilding team, for that matter) when they can stay with a contender who has baseball's best player in the lineup, two Cy Young-caliber starters in the rotation, and get overpaid to boot?!

The Orioles knew that they weren't likely to get him and didn't want to get into the serious bidding just so Boras could use their offer to force the Cards to make a higher counter offer.

I don't disagree that Holliday would have been a great addition to the O's (though figuring out what to do with Reimold would have been a problem).
Nevertheless, in my opinion sour grapes isn't the right attitude for Oriole fans to be taking at this time. At a fraction of what Holliday cost, the O's have Tejada, who batted .313 last year--exactly what Holliday batted.

Granted, Holliday hit more homers and knocked in more runs, but Miggy spent part of the season batting second in the lineup, hardly a good spot for a run producer.

Still, Tejada drove in 86 and bating fourth for the O's has a real chance to drive in 100+. And coming back to Camden Yards, a more hitter-friendly stadium than Minute Maid Park, it's conceivable that he could match Holliday's 24 homers from a year ago.

Miguel Tejada was an NL All-Star (he led the league in doubles last season), now he's on the O's and the offense just got a whole better, which is reason to celebrate, not to grumble.
------------------
Aside to Pete, About Tejada you write: "Should pile up some RBI early." I''m trying to figure out the reason for your use of the word "early" here. Are you suggesting he won't get them later because of Bell?

Well, that's a possibility to be sure, but what happens if Miggy has another All-Star caliber season? I'm sensing that you and a lot of other people writing on
this subject seem to think he's all but washed up.

If Tejada's having a fantasitc season, you're not going to tell me that Bell is going to shove him out of the job, are you? I just can't see that. I don't think Bell's going to be ready anyway, at least not for a while. He still has to prove himself at Triple-A yet and that's not a given.

Of course, there's the alternate scenario that has Tejada playing great and Bell playing great at Norfolk. What then? The O's could platoon the two and give Miggy some ABs at DH or find a contender who needs a bat ASAP and is willing to give up a quality prospect.

In any event, I really like the deal and think most O's fans will be won over once they see how Miggy invigorates the lineup. If Atkins gets his stroke back I think this is a lineup that few pitchers are going to want to face. Sure, maybe it's a bit short in the raw power department, but I think what it lacks there will be more than made up for by it's 1-9 consistency, where there are no glaring holes.

That is the most unbalanced lineup I've seen in a while! Yeesh!

I certainly hope that Atkins is lower than 6th. In fact, I wish he weren't on the team, but that's another matter. My predicted line-up:

Roberts 2B
Jones CF
Markakis RF
Tejada 3B
Weiters C
Reimold LF
Scott DH
Atkins 1B
Izturis SS

This one alternates Righty-Lefty all the way through, and is nicely balanced. I actually think Reimold would be better off in the 2-hole, since he has excellent on-base ability, but people seem fixated on Jones high in the order (I remain unconvinced by him: Reimold is better).

O's Zone,

Josh Bell is by no means a sure thing this year, but he is a great prospect. He made 24 errors in 117 games last year, and those are the balls he got to, as he has limited range at third base. He hit .204 against left handed pitching. His long term prospects are probably 1st base and DH. At 6'3" and 235, he is coming off microfracture knee surgery. He has a lot of work to do just to get to the big club, let alone make the all star team. His claim to fame right now is that he can really rake minor league pitching from the left side of the plate, and that's about it.

'Rebuilding' ???

Twice, I read above how the O's are 'rebuilding'. Now I'm not being negative here, but don't you have to be good at some point before you start over and rebuild?

Seems that 'rebuilding' was an appropriate term back in 98' and 99'. But now?

Maybe we can come up with a better term for what's going on with the O's..... something better than 'rebuilding' or 'the plan'.

Again, not being negative.... but what's the most appropriate word or phrase for the 2010 O's?

Gil,

How dare you give those FACTS about Bell. Don't you realize.... he's one of our 'names'. He's the future, he's someone baseball america talks about, he's part of AM's plan.

Why do you have to throw stats in the mix? Why do you have to be so negative?

On a serious note Gil, microfracture knee surgery is a huge deal. Some players never truly come back from such. I hope this kid can continue to work through it though. But as you said, he's not close to being on the big club... or I should say most big clubs.

Ken Francis,

Ken,

As much as some people would like the controversy to go away, Angelos and Macphail have done nothing to disprove the fact that the Orioles are trying to rebuild on the cheap. The club could have been improved signifiicantly this offseason. Holliday was not the only FA they wiffed on, but he is a metaphor for the disappointing progress made in improving the talent level at the Major League level.

Some people are OK with, some are not. I am not. That doesn't make me a "bad" fan. I haven't changed my viewpoint since pre season 2009. I am not a "pure" rebuilding proponent. Putting the team in a position to win is not a zero sum game.

Of course I was being sarcastic by citing the three talking points the spinmasters give when the O's wiff on a FA.

Re-lipsticking perhaps?

1. re-rebuilding?
2. yeah, we screwed up with Syd Beatagan - but now we really mean it?

Huh??, You stole my thunder with the 'but now we really mean it' phase. Yours was better though.

How about - 'RePlanning'.

I agree with Wayne that Andy is now acting desperately and that things could go wrong real quick. I think Andy will be asking for a re-do pretty quickly.

Do we really have to sit through another spring and part of a season while they try to will Pie into being the player Trembley thinks he saw in the Cubs system. He improved a bit in the second half last year, but how can all these posts support his splitting time with Reimold. If Reimold comes back where he left off last year, Pie should play in left as often as he'll spell Jones in center. If there is a competition it should be between Pie and Scott (with Reimold DH'g) or if you insist on the platoon thing, it might be with Atkins if Scott can play some first base (a long shot). Pie is a decent 4th outfielder and that's all he'll ever be.

As for Montanez, all he did was win the AAA triple crown before being hit with injuries, but he'll be lucky if Dave gives he a locker this spring. Trembley has his favorites....

I blew my Achilles at the ripe old age of 33. At his age, with the rehab folks and facilities he has access to, Reimold should be ready to go come ST. When I rehabbed mine (til my insurance company said they wouldn't pay any more) it was an injury that was sore the next day, but when the soreness went away the 2nd day, it was stronger and i could do a little harder rehab the 3rd day and repeat the process. Its a scary injury, but a pretty routine fix as they happen a lot more often in real life than i realized. my dr at the time did 2-4 a day a couple times a week.

I think the O's may have moved past the Jays into 4th place in the AL east and may approach .500 this year. They still have that bullpen to contend with. Exactly how many games did they blow when leading in the 7th last year?

Pete,

I like your line-up a lot. I'd make a few little changes, but yours seems almost dead on:

Brian Roberts (S) 2B
Adam Jones (R) CF
Nick Markakis (L) RF
Miguel Tejada (R) 3B
Luke Scott (L) DH
Nolan Reimold (R) LF
Matt Wieters (S) C
Garrett Atkins (R) 1B
Cesar Izturis (S) SS

I could see a lot of movement around the bottom of the line-up, but I think that this one makes the most sense. The O's would never have two same-handed batters hitting back to back. To start the year off, I like the top five the way it is. The battle for the six hole should be quite an intriguing one.

Achilles recovery can be tough, but remember Reimold didn't blow his out - it was a partial tear on which he played for 2 months. If it were detached he'd probably miss this season. I don't know, maybe all this Pie talk is just caution in case Reimold can't play every day. If DH'g him gets him in the line-up more regularly then that's a way to go.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You're right. I talked to Nolan on Saturday and he told me it was not necessary for doctors to detach the tendon from his heel to smooth the bone spur causing all the discomfort. He's already jogging, jumping and doing agility drills, so he's probably feeling better now than he did during last season. For comparison purposes, I had mine fixed two months earlier and did have a full detachment, and I'm probably at 85 percent right now, so I'm pretty confident he'll be ready.

Pete, I understand MT starting the year in the cleanup hole as he's used to it. Funny how a guy's spot in the order can mess with his head but it does. I can't stand seeing Pie and Jones in the #2 hole. You gotta have someone to get on base for Nick and MT to drive in. If Reimold bounces back and shows the same patience at the plate, i'd put him in the #2 hole and experiment with him in the 4 hole when he gets the right matchup. Here's my lineup if Reimold has a bigger year than last:

Roberts, Tejada, Nick (flip em v. L) Reimold, Weiters, Jones, Scott, Atkins, Izturis

What was the obp% of Roberts/#2 hitter last year? I bet not as high as other 1-2 punches where the #3 hitter drove in 100.

Pete,

Long term how Nick as a #2 hitter and Weiters 3rd.? It seems In that spot, Nick stops thinking he has to hit 25 homers and move his average towards .320., Who knows, more relaxed, probably hits similar HR #'s

Hey Pete Any guesses on what will happen with Wiggy? He indicated he was looking to be the everyday 3rd baseman this yr after Moras contract was up. Does he have any value in your opinon?? Will he get his wish and be a starter somewhere else. Or do you see the O's hanging onto him. I saw him at 1st last year and he didn't seem comfortable there.

Seriously Gil and Wayne...

Without arguing with the two of you, I just want to know if either of you could ever foresee a day when you woke up and just decided NOT to post the same old negative drivel day in and day out? Take a break. Pet a kitten. Stare out at the sea. Relax.

We ALL know VERY WELL your position on anything Orioles. If Pete posted on the Orioles repainting the parking spot lines in their lots, you'd use it as a forum to rip MacPhail. Don't worry about all of the "warehousers" positive vibes drowning out your "truth." To the extent that the printed word can ring in your ears, Wayne's posts will be ringing in all of our ours for the foreseeable future. Like victims of Chinese water torture can still hear the drips years later. In short, we get it, enough already.

In fact Gil, am I mistaken or didn't you say over the weekend that you were taking a posting sabbatical? Please don't let us stop you!

I predict a self-righteous response along the lines of "how can I be silent when my beloved franchise is in ruin?" Answer: Don't be silent, just let a few posts go without commenting or, better yet, try to say SOMETHING nice. There must be SOMETHING good going on with the Orioles, anything...

Thanks Pete. Not long until pitchers and catchers report. Hot stove is hot stove, but the start of spring training is just about the best time of year for all sorts of reasons-- baseball, warm weather, etc. I'm excited!

wayne -

How long were the Tigers rebuilding before their revival in '06? I'm not going to insult your intelligence with vague comparisons. 'Cause lets face it, the Tigers broke out of there 10+ years of futility. Nevertheless, if you want to look at two storied franchises with mirror situations, this is it. And it all started for the Tigers with a strong player developement systems that was implemented by Dave Dombroski.

But here's the difference: the Tigers 2003 season began with a bunch of rookies full of promise that led to a 119 loss season, thus leading to the nickname "The worse worst team of all time without an excuse". With Dombrowski willing to take a gamble, in '04 he signed 4 marquee, high-risk veterans in I. Rodriquez, Urbina, Carlos Guillen and Rondell White, improving to a 72-90 record. But it didn't end there. In '05, Dombrowski signed Magglio Ordonez and Troy Percival while trading for Placido Polanco, keeping the Tigers in a pennant race until a late season collapse (LMFAO!!!) and another 90-loss season. I think we all know what happened in the '06 season and beyond.

We're seeing these "promising" rookies starting to come up quickly now as the veterans are fading out. The '09 season, IMO, was pretty much rock bottom for this team. I'm sorry, but in comparison to the Tigers '03 season it's pretty hard to lose 119 games. So let's just assume '09 was rock bottom, and I think it was. We're going into 2010 with a young rotation with lots of upside, and we have a line-up with a lot of upside. Assuming that half of the young players come close to their potential (and I think that would be consider a success) will MacPhail "take a gamble" into '11 offseason. I really, really hope so.

And honestly, this "plan" has much more structure and vision then any other "plan" that the other puppets had in the past. I can admit that much. But what I won't admit is my faith in this franchise to actually take a chance and go after one or two marquee superstars in the intermediate future. It seems me that the "conservative approach" that fames MacPhail should be called the "pussy approach".

With that said, maybe that's what the 2010 "plan" should be renamed.

Jimmy Jazz (assume that's your regular blog name) -

While I'm 50/50 on some of the things that Wayne has to say, you gotta admit he is right about a few things. He can get under my skin too. Which is why I choose to question him (see above) rather then to feed into everything I disagree with. I enjoy conversation rather then the personal attacks.

So Dave, does that mean you support the plan or you don't. If what you are saying, is the plan is solid, provided AM goes after a key players in 11 to finish the job, then I agree and have posted the same. 11 will be the test as to whether the Angelos family really has any interest in giving AM the tools to finish the job.

Hey Wayne.

How about 'hail mary'? They could even hire Doug Flutie to sing 'Take me out to the ballgame' on opening day.

You have to admit, it will take a hail mary pass for this team to ever compete. It has happened though, and having Flutie at the game would be the promo of the year.

I'm not seeing what everyone is talking about... Adding Miggy is great... And I'd bet a grand that he's gonna bat 2nd... He led the AL in Doubles last year...and coming back to the traditionally smaller strike zone in the AL will help a lot.

Also the Wild card is Pie....if he picks up where he left off, you almost have to start him in RF and bat him second... He and Riemhold platooning between the field and DH but not changing their order in the lineup. We also shouldn't concern ourselves SO MUCH with the minors... until they get here...we're working with the Big Club. Bell and Snyder need to crush AAA ball before you can just move a Vet out of the way for them...

doug, LOL. I like the tejada pick up and I think we're on the right track, but as Cris Rock would say 'I understand'. Hail Mary is hilarious

Jeff -

In terms of avoiding long, wastefull contracts for players such as Gibbons, Mora, Huff and Baez (to name a few) yes, he's been solid.

In terms of dealing off the better players for tangible talent that will pay off in the future, he's been close to great.

For hiring a scouting department that drafts and signs good talent, he did good.

For mapping out a developement system that is in the Top-10 in all of MLB compared to where it was before he got here, it's hard to ask for much better.

Up to this point, I support the plan. But I have this hard feeling that MacPhail won't do what it takes to supplement the talent that we already have on the Major League team. His conservitive approach is good in terms of nursing the top prospects that we have in place in the minors. But I don't think he'll ever be aggresive enough to aquire those players who will put us over the top. His love for the In-House-Option I think is his biggest downfall. Sure, it'll eventually pay off down the road. Do you ever get the feeling our building block Markakis will be 30 years old before this team sees a winning season?

His plan, as it now stands, looks like it will make us a perrenial 85-game winner. That's unless he makes the big moves, but that again falls back on whether he wants to rely on the in-house-option. Whenever we get to be a 80-some game winner, that's when I hope he would trade a hyped up prospect for a big-named player. His track record shows otherwise, though.

Fooling around with lineups is always fun. I wouldn't be surprised to see Weiters in the cleanup spot with Reimold hitting five before the season's half over. Tejada hit second with the Astros and was very productive in that slot with Michael Bourne leading off (and leading the NL in steals).

Jimmy Jazz,

Not Brooks is taking the sabbatical. I took a month off about two months ago. I don't talk about "warehousers". I don't think I have ever used that term to make a point, although you can fact check it if you want. I have said that I believe that there are one or two Oriole Employees who post on the blog, so what? It's their right. They can easily be identified as they fawn and bubble over Macpahil's every move or utterance.

I have also given Peter Angelos credit as a good man and a great local philanthropist. I have worked on a few charities he has quietly and generously contributed to. He is just a lousy baseball owner and this blog is about baseball, not The United Way.

When will I give Andy Macphail some credit? I already have many times on the blog. I have stated that he he deserves an A+ for rebuilding the farm system, and an"F" for improving the talent of the Major Laegue product on the field so far.

I think both of those statements are accurate, and functional.

Dave,

I am not saying that everything's rosy with the Orioles, nor am I saying that everything Wayne and Gil gripe about is unfounded.

I am saying that if the only point is to hash and rehash the exact same negative tripe without any substantive addition, then it gets tiresome.

There's a lineup posted above by Pete which is likely to be substantially similar to the one we will see in the coming season. We can have a discussion about where certain players should bat to generate the most offense-- like many above have done. WHY must we use it to ONCE AGAIN talk about not getting Holliday, the failures of the Plan, MacFail, on and on it goes...?

I enjoy conversation too, but in world that's not conversation, it's droning.

By the way, what's the obsession with posting names on this blog? I'll let you in on a secret, my real name isn't Jimmy Jazz...it's a very good Clash song. The importance of consistency in the use of fake names does not really seem all that important to me.

Dave, regarding the tone and temperament of dialogue, Wayne characterizes just every positive post on this blog as a planted warehouser. In short, spare me. I need shed no tears for dear Wayne.

Gil,

Sorry about the sabbatical mix-up. My bad.

I'm not asking for you to pat Angelos or MacPhail on the back. I'm asking you to comment, as an Orioles fan, on the lineup. You seem like a bright and articulate guy. I understand very well that you think the team should have more proven talent, but you have made your point about the Plan and Angelos and MacPhail and on and on.

Try, just try, to post about the lineup. It's the one you are likely to see. How do you milk the most offense out of that (in your mind thoroughly unimpressive) group?

Again, I think you are a bright guy. Heck, Wayne even sounds pretty bright when he's not quoting unnamed sources and talking about his seats or spinning his occasional conspiracy theories. Just let me hear a new thought.

Here's some topics I would like to hear you speak on:

What is Wieters going to do this year?

Are Markakis, Jones and Reimold one of the top OFs in the AL? Discuss.

Matusz and Tillman...bona fide 1/2 bunch? This year, next year, never?

If you were the Manager, tell me the lineup you would put out there with the guys we have?

Try to do all of the above without mentioning Angelos, MacPhail or the Plan. Just talk baseball...

Dave in GB, good points, however the tigers didn't have to play the NYY and SUX 38 times the year they went to the series. No doubt what they did was remarkable, but the Os have to build towards being one of the top 2 teams in the AL to make the playoffs. They're on teh way, however I don't want to but lean towards what you said about Andy building a perennial 85 game winner when the Os have to think 95 wins to even have a shot

Jimmy Jazz -

I was being sarcastic on the blog name bit. Anyway, London Calling is a one of my favorite albums.

Anyway, hopefully he reads the post that left for him because I'd like to read what he has to say. Probably not, because I wasn't being negitive nor positive. It was just a bit of my insight.

1. Roberts (duh)
2. Reimold (has more quality ab's than Jones, the free swinger)
3. Markakis (duh #2)
4. Tejada (not a true #4, but best run producer on team)
5. Jones (more rbi's & this is where he belongs anyway)
6. Atkins (IF he regains his stoke)
7. Wieters (don't bury him too deep early, might affect his psyche)
8. Scott, Pie, Wiggington (Not a big Scott fan, too inconsistent)
9. Izturis (duh #3)

We do not have a cleanup hitter...so miggy will do I suppose... He did lead the NL in doubles last year. I would like to see Jones or Reimold to move into the 4 hole at some point.

My expectations for Atkins are really low.

and grammer police are much more annoying than bad spelling or grammer...

jj, I don't know what Gil thinks Weiters will do this year, but I've got a pretty solid idea.

Having seen him a Frederick & Bowie when he stormed through the two leagues it was clear that he was a man amoung boys. I've seen a lot of single A and double A ball, and seen a lot of future big league guys on their way to the show.

I've never seen a guy flat out mash the ball like Weiters in two levels in one year. He went up to Bowie and actually seemed to hit the ball harder after just tearing up the Carolina League.

He only spent a couple of months in triple A last spring. So he came to the majors before he really started to rake the ball there. so most of the year he was just feeling for the ball, not ripping it. What we saw was a guy just trying to make contact.

In Sept. he started to get comfortable at the plate and that swing started to come out a little, he started to get that overmatched look off his face and the confident air started to come back.

Come spring, I think he'll know he belongs and you'll see the full swing. When that kid really strokes it the ball jumps off that bat like few guys I've ever seen.

He's a legit 4-5 hitter, and I don't think it will take a long time for him to develop into an RBI slot guy. I think we'll see it this year.

cush -

I don't want to lean towards being a perrenial 85-game winner either. But based on MacPhail's track record, 3rd place seems to be our future. And we'll get lucky in those years when the Sox or Yanks have a bad year and the O's win the wild card. It's not impossible. But the other years will be the same 'ole ESPN story lines about the race between the Sox and Yanks. And the O's, well, they'll just be lucky when it happens. Or an "upset", as the national media refers it too.

Since we have a few functional lineups vs. right-handed pitchers I will submit one versus southpaws with 2009 OPS vs. LHP:

1. Roberts (S) .781
2. Markakis (L) .682
3. Tejada (R) .831
4. Reimold (R) .815
5. Scott (L) .837
6. Atkins (R) .790
7. Weiters (S) .671
8. Jones (R) .665
9. Izturis (S) .705

Bench:
Wigginton (R) .650
Pie (L) .623
Andino (R) .580
Moeller (R) .414

jimmy jazz,

I have commented about the individual players on the team, including the prospects many times. As far as the lineup is concerned, the whole is the sum of the parts. I will be glad to recap how I see it, briefly
Just a few highlights as I see it:

Nolan Reimold will go through a period of adjustment this year and may struggle early. If you go to the games you know he has a hole in his swing and it is the fastball above the belt. Remember Mike Young? Reimold has big time power and I hope he makes the adjustments. If so, I see 19 to 25 Homes runs, 80 ribbies and a .279 Batting average fans are prematurely penciling him for a breakout year with 30 home runs and 100 RBI's. He is still a question mark at this point.

Brian Roberts, Nick Markakis, and Miguel Tejada are established Major League hitters and will provide the bulk of the offense this year. I actually am looking for a great year from Markakis, better than last. Tejada should hit somewhere between .280 and .300 with 150 to 180 hits and 13 to 15 Home runs. he is at the stage in his career where performance can fall off quickly, like Mora, so i think expecting 200 hits again is being unrealistic. Roberts will have a year similar to last and we'll take it. I hope he starts running out routine ggrounders this year, as a veteren, the young players need role models.

Matt Wieters started making adjustments last season after struggling but is not yet jJe Mauer. 15 to 20 Home runs, .280 average, great defense. yYu know what to expect from Itzsuris and Luke Scott is way too streaky. I don't think he is a player that you can let hit himself out of a slump or he will kill you for 6 weeks. When he is hot he plays, 1 for 15 and tinme to ride the pine.

I really don't know what to expect from Pie this year and nobody else does either. Lot's of potential, but not a proven Major League player. Yet.

I am not a fan of Ty wiggenton, swings at too many bad pitches, chokes with runners in scoring position. He is a liability on defense.

Adam jones, Adam jones, Adam jones. There is only one thing that can keep this kid from greatness and that is Adam Jones. He is reckless in the field and reminds me of Bobby valentine the way he chases and crashes into walls. you could predict just about anything for this kid, but until he stays on the field for a whole season and stops swinging at bad pitches, we won't find out, so I can't honestly make any projections for him.

clfrdj, By the second half Weiters will mash his way into the 4 hole. To keep Tejada fully engaged, a move up to the 2 hole might be the best thing for the lineup.

I'd agree Jones is more of a 5 hitter then 2 hitter.

We haven't really seen Weiters swing the bat yet like he can yet at the Yard.

Atkins smh

I hope he sucks so that we can put Reimold or Scott at 1st/DH and start Pie. We need a new manager that will commit to small ball, because we clearly are spending $0 on bats. But with Roberts, Pie, and Jones, and relatively athletic hitters elsewhere (Wieters, Markakis, etc.), we should try to manufacture runs.

I'm a fan of Tejada but the only knock I have on him is his refusal to work counts. However, that flaw can be hidden more since Mora isnt hitting back to back with him anymore. He should try to get RBIs like he always does, but the rest of the team should have an NL style to it.

wayne- transitional.

Like in real estate, an up and coming neighborhood.

thank you clfrdj for putting Reimold in the #2 spot! I truly believe jones belongs down in the order til he learns some patience. Pete, i wouldn't put him there til he learns it, not vice versa.

Like the lineup overall, IF the era can drop to freakin 4.60, that's gotta be worth 81 wins, right? PLEASE!

I thought baseball fans actually looked at statistics. Everyone is going on and on about the O's offense. It was the PITCHING that was horrible last year. In fact; last place in almost every major category. The Orioles will score runs in bunches this season regardless of the batting order. The key to the season--aside from injuries--is the pitching staff and whether Bedard comes our way.

From 2006-2008, Atkins averaged 25HR, 110RBI, and a 0.305 batting average. After one down year, people make the comments that he's worthless. After a slow start in 2009, his at bats were limited - not allowing him to dig out of his slump. Kinda like if we hadn't let Mora dig out of his 1st half slump in 2008, he wouldn't have driven in 108 runs and batted .289. Colorado didn't give him that chance.

Not sure the 30-year old just forgot how to hit. The offense will be just fine this year.

Now let's Go. Get. Bedard.

I truly think that the real surprise for the O's this year will be the breakthrough of Matt Weiters and a better than thought of starting rotation. The bullpen worries me though!

Dave in GB,

Thanks. London Calling is great. Sorry about the name misunderstanding. There seems to be an inordinate amount of poster double-identity sleuthing that occurs here. If someone starts posting as Gates of the West or Clampdown, I guess you'll know it's me. Pretty tacky if I as Clampdown start backing Jimmy Jazz's points. I'll avoid it.

Gil, thanks as well. My only comment on your comment is that a lot of what you are saying sounds pretty down positive. I mean you wrote something like "he's not going to be ready to be Joe Mauer just yet.." Joe Mauer is one of the top hitters in all of baseball. If he's even close to being Mauer, he's a stud. He could be a 4/5 as Mountain Fan. Isn't his likelihood of being a 4/5 hitter almost as good as Holiday's if he came to the Orioles.

For a guy who posts so much negative stuff, you seem to be pretty high on some of these much-maligned prospects and young players. We're clearly looking at the same glass. I read your post to say that it looks pretty much half-full, but everything else I read from you screams half-empty. I don't know.

Jim Carter, everyone is going on and on about the offense because Pete posted about the lineup and Miggy was the topic. I agree about the pitching and think we are better with Matusz, Tillman and Bergesen all having some experience and a full major league ST. I also think we're better at closer.

The pitching is a wild card, but that has more to do with youth and readiness than in the past when it had to do with reclamation and redemption.

This might sound strange considering how much he hyped him last year, but I really think fans are underating Weiters. The guy already has one of the best approaches at the plate on the team already. We need to get our high OBP guys up as much as possible. I would put up a line-up of:

Roberts (2B)
Jones (OF)
Markakis (OF)
Weiters (C)
Tejada (3B)
Reimold/Scott (DH)
Atkins (1B)
Pie (OF) (Don't underestimate his Defense)
Izturis (SS)

Weiters and Markakis would give us two above average guys right in the middle of the order. With a decent bottom half of the order we really could be one of the better offenses in the league.

Mountain Fan,

If you are right about Wieters, I will be thrilled. Just one hitter like that in a lineup makes everyone else so much better.

I am also not entirely sure about the truth of the mantra that pitching wins and offense is secondary. I know it's fashionable to say, but the teams that contend every year seem to be built just as much around a heck of a lineup as they are around a pitching staff.

I live in Yankeeland and was there when Tex batted them further into the postseason. Frankly, with the (very significant) exception of CC and Mo Rivera, the real bright lights on the Yankees are hitters, not pitchers. Just a thought. Be curious to know if anyone else, including Pete, wonders if pitching wins championships is more a platitude than a reality.

Pete,

We are going to score some serious runs. The bench looks good, too.

I think Adam Jones is going to start hitting home runs in bunches. He will bat in middle of order with Weiters before year is out.

Bullpen could be real solid this year if Birkens and Hernandez end up out there.

In an attempt to replace the word 'rebuilding', as pertaining to the O's, here are the suggestions put forth so far:

'Re-Planning'

'Transitional'

'Re-Rebuilding'

'Yeah, we screwed up with Syd Beatagan - but now we really mean it'

'Re-Lipsticking'

'Hail Mary'

The 'Hail Mary' actually came with the bonus of having Doug Flutie attending opening game.

Good stuff so far.....

you didn't read my post, how shocking...

This lineup is neither worthless nor a sure thing but I am somewhat disappointed in this signing by Andy McPhail. While adding Tejada is a splashy move that distracts the fan-base and the media up until spring training, in the final evaluation it is at best a stop-gap move with little potential for long-term benefit.

McPhail passed on three players who have averaged 30+ HR over their careers (Dye, Thome, & Glaus) and gave us instead a corner combo who might not combine for 30 homers. Any one of the three would be considered a natural cleanup hitter but now we will once again be forced to talk about manufacturing runs, not exactly a strong-suit of the punchless 2009 Orioles.

Good luck Dave Trembley, you are going to have your work cut out for you in Spring Training preaching fundamentals and team hitting to tone-deaf millionaires and will actually have to rely on statistical analysis to make out your lineups in 2010 rather than statements like "this guy is a #3 hitter in this league" (despite the fact that Nick Markakis and Adam Jones most closely resemble Punch & Judy against left-handed pitching).

Great post Dave!!!, he says (mocking Rush)

Yes, I was surprised as well...

Maybe adding some screen direction will jazz things up a bit

maybe we start referring to ourselves in the third person-you know that's next...

I missed one guys......sorry!

'The Pussy Approach'

Dave,

I hear what you're saying about the Tigers, etc..... There were things I liked and disliked about their approach. Grabbing past their prime, injury prone vets is mainly what I didn't like.

With AM, I have zero faith that he'll ever step up to acquire a couple stud missing pieces 'when it's time'. Whether it would be a stud clean up hitter or a quality proven starter, I just don't see him ever recommending to ownership that they should spend (not that they'd approve such spending anyway).

At the same time, I don't see him paying what it will take in order to keep a Weiters, Tillman, etc, should they develop into studs. Unless he can get early 'lock up' deals like he got for Markakis, he'll never spend the 18 to 20+ mil required to compete. It's simply not in his dna.

Baltimore is not a large market, but it's far from a small market. To be 26 of 30 on payroll is simply shameful. Whether this team is developing from within or not, they should be doing the best they can (every year), to put a product on the field that's worth the fans dollars. They have not done that for over a decade, and I'm sorry, they haven't done it for 2010.

Dave, you can call me negative all you want, and you can suggest I say the same things all the time. I will say that I have talked about some of the good young players this team has. I just don't think it's enough, and while I'm not predicting a Detroit Tiger 119 loss collapse, I do think this will be a dreadful year.

Maybe only slightly better than last years rock bottom.

jimmy jazz,

There are a lot of positives as far as the young players are concerned but that may not convert into a lot of wins in the American League East. Going into the offseason I thought the Orioles needed two solid starting pitchers, a big right handed bat two corner infielders, and two relievers. We got the corners but Atkins is a huge question mark and Tejajda is not a legit number four. We got Millwood and Gonzalez but still need another reliever and starter. The big right handed bat would have made everybody in the lineup better and taken some pressure off of Remold, Jones and wieters to be that guy.

My point has been all along that after 10 losing years in a row, don't start on a long term rebuilding plan without upgrading the product on the field also on an incremental basis, Some people think that is being negative. I say the Orioles can afford it and try to reverse their fortunes faster rather than continue with the pure rebuilding experiment.

The current lineup is satisfactory but lacks a legit 30 home run hitter, and is being overrrated by many on the blog. There is a lot of potential. No one wants the team to win more than me. I am just extremely disappointed that Angelos and Macphail have not made an effort to put a team on the field that can win the Division or a Wild Card. Sure, it will be fun to watch the young players, but going into the season with all of the question marks, especially with the starting pitching does not bode well for a winning season.

This team, unfortunately is positioned for another second half collapse as the young pitchers wear down or are shut down.

I've been posting that it's unrealistic to pencil in Josh Bell as the third baseman of the future because he hasn't exactly lit up AA ball, and even the best AA performers are very unlikely to make it in MLB. Then I wondered if that's really true. Here are the Baysox leaders in five essential stats, for the five years 2000-2004. (With some minimum ABs or IPs)

HR: Dave Gibralter, Francisco Figueroa, Keith Reid, Juan Diaz, Walter Young
BA: Rick Short, Jose Leon, Darnell McDonald, Mike Fontenot, David Segui
rbi: Gibralter, Figueroa, Doug Gredvig, Fontenot, Young
wins: Sean Douglass, John Stephens, Mike Paradis, Brian Forystek, Dave Crouthers
era: Jeff Wilson, Stephens, Juan Rosario, Dave Borkowski, Crouthers

And a spot check of some other AA teams around the country seem to confirm that the best of these guys has about a 10 oercent or less chance of contributing in MLB. I rest my case. (But warning: I'll pull this out again when you guys start gushing about the talent in AA.)

Danny in WV

You're a tough guy to please. Bell hit 295 with a 890 ops at AA. He had 35 doubles and 20 home runs in 500 PA. Like everybody else, I have no idea whether Bell will be a good major leaguer, but to say he hasn't impressed at AA is off base.

thanks for the warning danny.

Dang it wayne, again you talk about the Os not putting a team on the field worth the fans' dollars and yet you continue to give them...wait for it...your dollars. I know, other teams. Then you went to fan-fest!

When coherent, you seem to have some good, thought out points. The bluster takes away from that. your lack of action nullifies the bluster.

That said, I wonder too if andy has the stones to go get what the Os need to compete with the big boys.

Gil, the Os biggest problem last year was getting runners on. I believe they were in the top 3 in hitting with RISP. Problem is, they had a pathetic obp and the lineup looks better than last year. IF (big if on purpose) the ERA drops to the 4.65 mark, they'll be looking pretty good...IF they can get guys on base.

Wow Danny in WV,

That's powerful stuff!

Listen everyone, while it's great to have 'names' in the system, it's incredibly dangerous to put all of your eggs into the young developing player basket, while surrounding the kids with mostly fillers and past their primers.

Sure, you can come up with your own spin that counters Danny's post. Doing so however, will only help to dig your 'hope' hole that much deeper.

For every prospect that makes it, there are thousands of equal type talent that do not. Knowing that, to not surround developing players with expensive, proven major league players is cheating the fans.

No, I'd never suggest spending well beyond what the club can afford. Instead, just spend in the middle of the pact......or, the equivalent to the size of your market.

By doing so, this team could have at least a couple bombers in the middle of the line-up, as well as at least one more proven, quality starting pitcher........all while developing the young talent.

Now wouldn't that be more fun as we approached the 2010 season?

i mean the Os biggest offensive problem was getting guys on. obviously, pitching was the pits.

cush,

I've explained at least a few times why I continue to pay for my seats. You may not buy my reasoning, but it's honest.

I theory, you're 100% correct though!

Wayne, maybe you should give up your seats and buy Andy and PA some stones to sign the guys we're gonna need to compete! I'm a fan of the plan, and like i said, i wonder if andy will complete it or be allowed to. You're dead on with the spending...it sucks. Forget middle of the pack, they could easily be in the bottom of the top 10.

Peter,

I feel we're in some kind of time warp with Tejada being penciled in at the four hole. The big difference is, this guy should no longer be in the four spot. I don't mean to take anything away from the guy, but this is part of this grand organizational plan?

Then you have Atkins penciled in directly after the four hole? So you're protecting the most important run producing spot in the order with someone who did so poorly last year he lost his starting job?

To sum, and just to see if I'm reading the lineup correctly. You have a person ill suited to bat fourth, followed by a guy ill suited to bat anywhere?

Teams like the Yanks, Red Sox, Cards, Angels, Dodgers, they're pretty darn sure they're going to have at least good year, if not a great one. The O's obviously aren't in that category. But there's a lot of good young talent on the team that has given some real signs that they could become good, if not top notch, major league ball players. And that'll be the fun this season, to watch and see what happens. Hopefully, Jones will refine his game and continue to get better; Weiters, Reimold, Bergeson, Matusz , will pick up where they left off and grow some more, and guys like Tillman, Pie, Hernandez and Birkins learned something last year and are ready to make positive, consistant contributions. There's a good veteran base with Roberts, Markakis, Izturis, Guthrie, and now Atkins, Millwood, Gonzalez, and Tejada (which I agree w/Pete is a good, short term move.) I think they're good enough to take the next step or 2, but don't expect a giant leap just yet. That's asking too much. Just enjoy the ride; there should be enought of an increase in wins to make it fun.

The discussions of batting order at this point reminds me of a quote from MacBeth.

"It is a tale / Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, / Signifying nothing."

There are too many questions to be answered about Atkins, Weiters, and Reimold to speculate on where they should be slotted. Until Spring Training, all speculation and accompanying reasoning is meaningless.

clfrd,

I'm sorry, but did you say 'just enjoy the ride'? I don't mean to be a smart azz, but the ride I was on last year was so scary, I promised not to get on it again. Can we at least make sure it's in good working order before we're told it's safe to go back on?

clfrdj,

Re: clfrdj | January 25, 2010 4:33 PM

damn man, I spent way too much time today thinking of a line-up and you just go-ahead and nail it. well, I like it a lot anyway and, like you, think Jones in #2 spot is bad bad bad stuff.

Gil,

"As much as some people would like the controversy to go away, Angelos and Macphail have done nothing to disprove the fact that the Orioles are trying to rebuild on the cheap."

They paid out the nose for Wieters and dealt with Boras for the first time in Years.

I mean, I'm eager as heck to see the next few years. It's only been 2.5 years of McPhail--I just don't see how it could have been done faster...

I like the potential of this deal. Worst case the O's get a half dozen mid-range prospects by July 31, right? I mean, it worked once...

Wayne,

I like 'Hail Mary' the best so far.

How better to describe the upcoming season? Sure beats 'Rebuilding' which shouldn't used when it comes to the Orioles ever again.

Larry, I feel your pain about last year - it was another sucky year. But, I think the difference this year is that they developed some depth by giving all the young guys so much playing time last year. I think it's going to pay off.

Larry - That was funny and I must agree that it really was a horrible ride last year.

Tully,

like selling him to the Rays for Beckham as they make a push at the Yanks...

does anyone else think the Sox are gonna finish 3rd? I dunno about them....maybe it's me.

1. Roberts
2. Reimold
3. Markakis
4. Jones
5. Tejada
6. Weiters
7. Scott
8. Atkins
9. Izturis

wayne, I couldn't agree more about the continued lack of payroll. I just don't know how anyone could call them anything but cheap. That's just who and what they are.

paulie, You're using Weiters as an example of spending? I just don't see it. If they didn't pay some of these players, they'd be forced to pony up similar to what happened to the Marlins recently. As long as they're at the bottom of the league payroll, how could they be called anything but cheap?

roy,

I think calling the O's cheap is a little pre-mature. They've been a top spending team for the Majority of the 2000's and 90's. Yes they're low now, and I think if it continues for 2 more years you can safely call them Cheap.

I'll give credit where credit is due: last team to outspend the Yankees? Orioles. Didn't work. (neither did top spending Yankees too...)

Wieters is an indication that Andy will spend. He dropped to the O's with the 4th pick because of $ issues. And for the O's, $ wasn't an issue.

Tully,

Just so I have this right, they're now picking up starting players so they can trade them for mid range prospects mid way through the season? And then I'm assuming someone like Bell will come up before he's ready? Who's the one that said this team is set up for another second half collapse? My, this ride could be worse than last year.

paulie, I do remember when they outspent the Yankee's. That was a decade ago though and the game can no longer be compared to that period. And by the way, the Yankee's have been and always are in it - but that's a discussion for another day. Since MacPhail has been here though, this club has become one of the cheapest in baseball. I just don't understand how anyone can debate that? The numbers don't lie. I've only been in Baltimore for 5 years, and I want to adopt the Orioles as my team. They really make it hard though.

roy,

in 2007 the O's spent 93 Million, 10th in payroll. 69 wins. 96 losses.

yes, since AM has arrived, the payroll has gone down. But that's a pretty short time period and much has changed in personal.

I'm glad that you'd like to be a fan, and hopefully the core group of guys will be fun to watch over the next few years. Part of the O's is that "Magic" and we'll see if it happens.

I've tried for 5 years, and that was already after 7 years of losing. And everything ive seen has them in last place with a losing record again this year. I'll continue to try, but i don't know where the 'magic' logic comes into play. Maybe you're referring to the promo song they play prior to games. I have to admit though paulie, that jingle is pretty comical, especially when the team is always so bad. Maybe change the jingle until the team is better?

Line-ups?

Not so fast my friends. Adam Jones has the most power, speed and potential average and should be the 3 hitter. Brob is in the customary leadoff spot, Cesar will bat 9th. But after that, you could throw the names in a hat and fill in the gaps. Miggy or Nick in the 2 or 5 hole, we don't have a clean-up hitter and we can only hope Wieters and Reimhold keep developing because 4-6 holes look good with them in it! That leaves the 7 and 8 holes for Atkins and Pie/Scott!

Not a horrible line up but boy what a big bat in the 4 hole would do to give this team a fighting chance!

Roberts Leads off. No brainer!
2nd
Can't put Miggy in the 2 slot he isn't patient enough. 19 walks last year.
Jones struggles began last year when he was moved down to the power slots in the lineup. His was successful in the 2 slot and they wanted him to be selective. Put him back in the 2 slot and don't move him no matter how many homers he hits!
3rd
Markakis 3rd. Don't even think about moving him. Best pure hitter on the team and has more protection in the lineup this year.
4th
Miggy. He has been a run producer in the middle of the lineup his whole career. Who cares if he isn't hitting 25 to 30 bombs a year anymore. He knows how to hit with runners in scoring position.(Josh Bell has alot to prove at AAA before we platoon Miggy at 3rd) Tejada is perfect because he doesn't block Bells path to the majors but Bell needs the whole year in Norfolk.
5th
Wieters makes the most sense here as he provides better protection for miggy being left handed. Preventing teams from bringing in a nasty right hander to face 2 righty hitters in the heart of our lineup late in tight games. Wieters also finished really strong once the hype died down. He was patient and batted over .300 with good power over the last 2 months with no protection in the lineup because of injuries and the ineffectiveness of every bat in the lineup down the stretch last year.
6th
I like Garrett Atkins here. He was the 3rd or 4th hitter in Colorado's lineup for years and lost his job to Ian Stewart who was a prospect they were grooming to take his place because he is a cheaper option. His slow start made the decision easier. If you don't start in the NL you don't get many ABs to work out of slumps. He is a veterean hitter now playing in his natural position(moved to 3rd in the minors because Helton was the face of the Rockies franchise). At age 30(still in his pime) he has had alot of success. 4th in NL rookie of the year balloting in 2005, Received NL MVP consideration in 2006 batting .329 with 198 Hs, 48 2Bs, 29 HRs & 120 RBIs, followed that up batting .301 with 25 HRs & 111 RBIs in 2007 and had a respectible 21 hr, 99 RBI .286 BA in 2008. I attribute some of his struggles in 2009 to the trade of Matt Holiday and the lack of protection in the Lineup. There is no Oriole player, with a proven track record, thats still in his prime, that has put up the offensive numbers that Atkins has. Including Markakis! In Nick's best year he hit 23 HRs with 112 RBIs and a .300 BA. His best average over a full season is .306 but with lower power numbers. Where are these Atkins comments coming from! Pure Stiff! This Guy is Terrible! I wish he weren't on the Team! I hope he sucks so we can fire Trembley! You people are idiots! He may be the steal of the offseason. He bats in the six hole for me and he's moving up if Miggy struggles.
7th
Luke Scott/ Ty Wiggington platoon at DH. I believe Luke stays away from the extended slumps if he doesn't have to face lefties and Wiggy needs the ABs while backing up all 4 infield positions effectively.
8th
Nolan Reimold had a great rookie campaigne but doesn't need the added pressure of batting in the 5 slot yet. He is patient and his OBP was better then Adam Jones but he is coming off the achillies procedure and he isn't the player that Adam Jones is yet. Don't get me wrong. He is a great team player and I love his hustle. His defense should improve once the achillies is healed and he adjust to LF(he was a center fielder in college and the minors). He won't clog the bases in front of Izturis, Roberts and Jones either. Nice luxury to have a young player with his potential in the 8 spot.
9th
Cesar Izturis. The best defensive SS in the league. He does something most switch hitters don't do, definitely something nobody on the orioles did well last year. He hits lefties better then righties(lifetime .272). Moves runners up, bunts and can steal a base. Perfect number 9 hitter.

I'm very excited to see all the young players that came up last year playing the entire year together with a much better group of veterians surrounding them. Replacing Huff & Mora with Atkins & Tejada.

Last Seasons starting rotation
Guthrie
Uehara
Eaton
Hendrickson
Simone
2010
Millwood
Matuzs
Guthrie
Burgesen
Tillman
2009 Bullpen
Sherrill
Johnson
Walker
Baez
Ray
Albers
Sarfate
2010 Bullpen
Gonzalez
Johnson
Uehara
Meredith
Hernandez?Hendrickson?Casillo?Berken?Albers?Sarfate?Mickolio?

What a difference a year makes!

Roberts
Jones
Markakis
Tejada
Wieters
Reimold
Atkins
Scott
Izturis

Joe M,

That is the most well-reasoned argument for what this year's lineup should be. I could go along with that.

I can't wait for Spring Training to see how Atkins, Weiters, and Reimold do.

Since Pete is officially laying out potential line-ups, I suppose it is time to put out my first pre-season prediction on wins. Right now, I say 74.

That's ten more than last year and 16 more than my final prediction for last year.

Without a bonafide clean-up hitter and little power presence (I won't critique the rest of the line-up), the run-hit ratio will be doomed more often than not once again.

Last year, the O's were 46-19 (.708) when runs were better than one-half of the hits, 3-7 (.300) when exactly one-half, and 15-72 (.172) when worse. This line-up could yield ten more games in the desired category (seven more wins).

I am also (for now) allowing for the Orioles to have a team ERA equal to last year's league ERA -- 4.45 -- a 0.70 improvement. That should allow for a .500 record in R-H games having a 1-to-2 ratio and a .200 record when the O's are scattering their hits.

It does not take into account injuries and the lack of depth. This may be addressed before Opening Day. So might my prediction.

Pete,
Do you have any idea who gets trimmed from the 40 man roster in order to add Tejeda?

You don't need walks in the Number two slot. Number one yes, two no. You need someone swinging the bat in the two hole. Tejada batting two allows for Roberts to steal more bases. The pitcher has comcentrate on Tejada, allowing Roberts to run with abandon. With Tejada batting two, Michael Bourne led the NL in stolen bases. With Bourne running, the opposing team's defense had to cover the bag, leaving the field open to Tejada's line shots. No question, you bat him two.

lineup:

Roberts
Markakis
Tejada
Scott
Jones
Reimold
Wieters
Atkins
Izturis

I like Nick in the 2 hole because he is patient. Adam Jones has the power and swing to be in an RBI hole like 5. He still swings at too many bad pitches to be a 2 or 3 hitter. Reimold, Wieters, and Atkins will play there selves into the 6-7-8 spots but I would think you would want Wieters to be higher rather than lower because of his lack of speed. he could slow down Izturis or Roberts on the basepaths if he is in the way and we all know of Roberts' penchant for hitting doubles.

...and he wouldn't have wanted to come here anyway. Did I miss anything?

Posted by: Gil
~~~~~~~~

Knowledge of the subject, intelligence, common sense, humility, manners, tolerance, ability to make a germane post without being smarmy . . . and I am quite sure that is an abbreviated list.

Hope Miggy brought his SPECIAL suitcase with him.

Here's my question, is there anyone in our lineup besides maybe BRob and Wieters, that would even start for Boston or NYY?

Lucky Horsehoe,

Very profound. I'll reflect on your comments for awhile. OK, I'm done.

Actually there is a 4th reason the spinners give when the Orioles whiff on name FA's..

1. Will block the kids
2. Aren't worth the money
3. Wouldn't have come here anyhow
4. Want to stay in the Major Leagues.

I would agree with B-Rob, Tejada, and Markakis at 1-2-3. That's three guys that hit 40-50 doubles last year.

I would imagine the rest of the lineup will be switched around as the season progresses based on how players perform.

I'd love to see Jones stay healthy and consistent and think he could hit close to 30 HRs. It seemed as though he makes line drive contact even on his outs. He also seems to strike out too much though when not making contact. This to me could be the signs of a budding clean-up hitter.

Atkins is a question mark due to his poor performance last year and I can't quantify what Reimold and Wieters could do in a full season with last year under their belts.

My overall feeling is excited for Opening Day. Ask me how I feel in June though...

There it is.....

The first post that I've seen this year predicting a losing season (in this case, 74 wins), and declaring it a success because it would be a 10 game improvement over last year.

Be my guest people! Go ahead and get excited over the potential of a 74 win season. Me? I'd rather have a little pride by setting the bar a little higher.

Nah, I'm not looking for them to challenge for the post season, but I'll be damn if I'll have so little competitive spirit to allow myself to hype the success of a 74 win season.

74 wins people, is what it is..... a 'losing' season. Would it be better than last year? Who cares! Losing is losing is losing!

And do any of you perhaps think about why 74 wins would 'feel' better? Is it possibly because AM loaded this team with so many stiffs in 2009 that any improvement in 2010 could be deemed a success.

No, I'm not the negative one! It's the people who glowingly project 74 wins who are the negative one's. It's those of you who overate and hype this club who are negative. Why? Because you're suggesting that losing is ok. Every single year, you suggest that losing is acceptable.

Well losing is not acceptable.

13 years in a row people. Not 3, not 5, not 8, not 11..... but 13! If Pittsburgh wins one of these years, the O's will be chasing their record of losing. And that's ok with you?

I'm not calling anyone names like some of you do, but do you have no pride at all?

Set the bar a little higher. How about 81 wins? It's only 7 more wins than 74, but at least it's not considered 'losing'.

And Lucky Horseshoe....... When it comes to Gil, and his 'knowledge of the subject'. Maybe, you should just stop before you further embarrass yourself.

Hi Pete,
Do the O's have an interest in signing Ben Sheets? Saw a report today that indicated he looked really good in a recent workout for scouts. This guy is not that far away from being a number one, and he doesn't appear to be asking for too much. Curious as to your thoughts.
Thanks.

Wayne,

I read that as well and almost got sick. It's really hard to imagine what has happened to oriole baseball expectations. It's almost like the fans are constantly fooling themselves into thinking last place isn't such a bad place after all.

It's also quite possible that some of the fans on this board have never experienced a winning baseball team. I could be that to them, 74 wins is winning baseball. I know that's hard to imagine, but for younger fans who may be blogging, the only winning they may have witnessed may be from other teams.

The Angelos family really should be ashamed at what they've done to baseball in this town for so log now. WInning has either been all but forgotten by the fans, or it's never existed at all. Too bad!

On 'improvement' vs. 'success': I've lost more than 10 pounds since September. Did it slowly and methodically, by improving my diet and becoming more active, not by fasting and running marathons. But I'm still 15 pounds overweight. Some days I feel fat and stupid and hopeless, other days I'm excited about my progress. Both attitudes are legitimate, but for me personally, it works better cultivate the positive. But if holding onto the crappy feelings and magnifying them until you're miserable is what motivates you, then by all means, do it! Just don't judge me because I go the other way.

Danny,

Thats a pretty poor analogy cause you have some measure of control over your weightloss success. We as fans have no control over the fate of the team. Which is why it is so frustrating to see it destroyed and to hear this happy go lucky, we'll try to win next year BS. Only its been next year for like 10 effing years.

As Wall To Wall baseball on Saturday mornings on 1057 is unlistenable, so to are the birdland employee's on these blogs. Is everyone in this town on the take?

Wayne,

One of the drawbacks to the lineup is the lack of overall team speed. Other than Roberts and Jones, you have to get down to Itzuris until you find someone who can steal a base. I know Trembley is talking about running Markakis more, but the team stole only 76 bases last year, compared to 126 for Boston, 111 for the yankees and 194 for Tampa Bay.

That statistic indicates a lot of station to station baseball and without a legitimate 30 HR guy I think the team may struggle to score runs.

The lack of speed also limits Trembley's option as to where he can bat Jones. Frankly, I think Jones should be batting 7th or 8th to start off the season based on how poorly he was hitting at the time he was injured, ending his season.

I am not trying to be negative. As a matter of fact, this siutaion may result in more playing time for Felix Pie, who can inject more speed into the lineup and change the dynamics a little.

Wiggenton does not add speed when he is in the lineup, so, without team speed and a legitimate number 4 hitter, I think you will see Trembley try to manufacture more runs this year through the use of the run and hit and sacrafices.

As Cush pointed out, you need to get on base before any of these things can happen and the Orioles had a poor OBP last year.

In summary, I am not trying to be negative, just pointing out that the lack of team speed and legitmate number four hitter tends to limit the Orioles ability to score enough runs on a sustained basis in order to support the young pitchers.

Now, if by chance the Orioles do get significantly more HR production out oe Wieters, Jones, Reimold, and Markakis and Atkins,
the team will be in a better position to approach a .500 record. If each of the above could hit 20 to 25 the Orioles might have a shot at ending the losing, especially if the Starters can go deeper into the games, and not wear out the bullpen by the second half.

Lot's of questions, lot's of things need to go right to get to .500 and take the next step.

Randy: You illustrate my point perfectly. Anyone can say "cool" or 'congratulations," or "that's a poor analogy." Probably one's personality type dictates his response. It's all good.

So, predicting 85 wins gets you Rant1, predicting 75 gets you Rant2.
Rant1-how could you be so stupid. Don't you see they suck.They're cheap and this plan as you call it will never work PA sucks. AM sucks.You're not listening to me!!!No, I'm not being negative.
RantTwo- don't you have any pride?Get a grip and at least have some pride. Losing is losing and unacceptable you prideless minions. You're not listening to me!!!I'm not being negative.

How could you not read this blog and not just laugh your ass off at some of the psychobabble junk that gets posted on here?

It's really all too funny.

Gil,

Well said! And please don't worry if you're being negative, because you aren't. You're simply stating facts.

Scoring has been a problem the O's have had forever. I really thought AM would recognize such and immediately try to do something about it. I was obviously wrong though!

He would have cost around 10 mil per to come east, but I thought Figgins was a great option at 3B. In Seattle, they're going to put him behind Ichiro. Wow!

Can you imagine him behind Brob? 300 avg, 100 walks, 40+ steals? With those two at 1 & 2, imagine the run scoring possibilities......

Even with Figgins at 10 mil per, AM could have still gone out and gotten a legitimate clean up hitter and another solid starting pitcher and STILL have been less than middle of the pack in MLB payroll. ALL, while allowing the kids to develop, albeit with a little less pressure on them.

That's a team I would have been excited about. That would be a winning team (now) with a significant future.

They just won't do it though....

jim66,

Wow, thanks for summarizing my rant. The more it gets out the better.

I didn't call anyone 'stupid' though jim66. That's something you like to do, not me.
I also never used the word 'sucks' and I didn't call anyone 'minions'.

All in all though, I appreciate you helping to get the word out. Especially asking that people accept something more than the continued losing. That's always a good thing, as losing sucks! (ooops, i used your word - sorry!).

SO all the mcfailers are giddy about tejada coming back. Ill admit that I prefered him to crede myself

I am confused though. WHen macphail traded tejada and he was a 30 yr old power hitting SS, the macfailers loved getting rid of him and couldnt contain their glee at his departure.

NOw MT is a line drive hitting 35 yr old 3b who will turn 36 during the season and will be playing out of position and will most likely be a defensive liability until the Os are mathematically elimated on Labor day

SO the macfailers loved getting rid 0f a 30 YO power hitting SS and praised AM to high heaven. now they cant contain their excitement about getting a 36YO line drive hitter even more than when AM gave him the boot

SO basically, if macphail decides its time for a bowel movement, the macfailers will praise that too i guess

If you're so happy to have him back, why were u so happy to c him to go ? (gettin rid of miggy did save petey about 25 mil tho)

jason,

Some think the guys is actually 38 or 39!

But he's not Crede, so for the O's this is like getting Tex!

Let's get past the savior/smokescreen that is Miguel Tejada and back to the pitching.

Current bullpen:

Mike Gonzalez (L)
Alberto Castillo (L)
Jim Johnson (R)
Koji Uehara (R)
Matt Albers (R)
Dennis Sarfate (R)
Cla Meredith (R)

The most disturbing thing about this group is not the overall talent but Dave Trembley's inability to use any of them in an efficient manner.

Has the time finally come to totally discredit the Trembley concept that each pitcher should only appear in specific innings regardless of matchups or recent performance?

Koji Uehara: I am going to second-guess Trembley before the season starts. What happens the first time Koji comes into the fifth, sixth or seventh and locks down a team only to be removed from a game because the 8th or 9th inning rolls around? Hasn't he already shown the ability to go 4-5 innings before lineups figure him out?

Jim Johnson: The "8th inning guy" (cannot function in the 7th inning or the 9th inning). The best arm on the staff should be allowed to throw multiple innings when the game is in the balance in the 7th inning or matchups dictate use in the 9th inning.

Mike Gonzalez: may be able to escape the "Trembley Curse" relatively unscathed only because he is "the closer" and his appearances will be mostly dictated by save situations.

Dennis Sarfate: should be pulled the first time he walks a batter, meaning in most outings within the first 2 batters faced.

Matt Albers: the definition of hot and cold he should pitch until he runs out of gas when hot and pulled immediately on the cold days.

Alberto Castillo: his mlb numbers are better than you would think but remains Trembley's whipping boy because he is the career minor leaguer who doesn't fit the hard throwing lefty-specialist profile that DT craves.

Cla Meredith: his stuff looks unimpressive but he does one thing really well - keep the ball in the park. Could be valuable against the power hitting lineups of the AL East.

Danys Baez: why do I mention a pitcher now on the Phillies roster? Because he was Trembley's "7th inning guy" Hopefully, Trembley does not try to pigeonhole someone else into this "role". But he could very well be whispering into AM's ear at this moment that he needs someone who can pitch in an inning with the number 7 attached to it.

The takehome point is that this motley crew needs to be managed competently, not warmed up every time their inning pops up over a 162-game schedule.

Gil -

I wouldn't consider Markakis or Riemold slow either. Niether one will be big stolen base threat, but it has been shown that they have good speed around the base paths. The reason why Markakis hasn't had more then 17 stolen bases in a season is probably because of this spot in the lineup. It common for a baserunner not to steal a base when the middle of the lineup is up, especially the clean up hitter. And Riemold does have some good wheels, he just isn't a good base stealer.

Hi Dave,

I agree that Reimold and Markakis move around the bases pretty well. Trembley has said Markakis should be stealing more bases and needs to work at it. Overall, though, this is not a team blessed with good speed, and Tejada was slowing down the last time he played here.

I agree, though, that you don't have to be a burner to be a good baserunner. Brooks and Frank robinson knew when to take the extra base and were rarely thrown out. Down through time, the Orioles knew how to play the game until the more recent years. From Russ snyder to Merv Rettenmund, Paul Blair, Davey Johnson et al this organization was once the gem of baseball fundamentals. Conversely, Melvin Mora made some of the most boneheaded plays I ever saw on the bases, and the baserunning overall has been sub par for years.

I am not yet convinced that Dave Trembley is the man to instill these fundamentals. He hasn't been so far. Let's see how he does this year, and how the team approaches the game.

I hope Trembley has zero tolerance for lack of hustle and baseball common sense.

Gil -

I missed out on watching the Orioles from 2001 - 2006 when I was in the Army, stationed in Georgia. So I could only follow what I saw in the newspapers or magazines (it made no sense for me to have internet or TV because I was constantly somewhere else). But when I came back to MD and saw the major lack of fundementals, I said "Good Lord, this is stuff that was instilled when I was in High School!!". Not paying attention to the base coaches, missing signs, not calling for the ball, swinging on a 3-0 count into a DP, pitchers who couldn't throw strikes...... it was SHOCKED. And for as major as it was at the time, I figured it would take YEARS to break out of that mentallity. I hope Trembley and the entire player developement system has no tolerence for that kind of stuff either.

Like Jimmy Johnson before the '92 superbowl - They can talk the talk, but can they walk the walk? Okay, I'm joking, but you get the picture :)

Dave,

You said something the other day that I found very compelling. You remarked that it would nice if posters used a real first name rather than a moniker. Whoever it was replied to you wanted know why it is such a big deal. Some people feel more comforatable communicating behind an alias because subconsiously they do not have to take ownership for their comments. Putting a name behind the words personalizes the arguments. It is hard for me to get out of line with James C. or jim66. But when I am insulted by a moniker hiding behind a blog all bets are off because I have absolutely no respect for a an internet coward, hurling insults behind multiple ridiculous made up screen names. If you want my respect, post up your real first name. It is a character issue and you are right all the way.

I'm certain that I will be told I am idiot and to go to hell before this thread is over, but I frankly don't care. Gil is my name and I'm proud of it. It was my father's name.

And and I am pleased to make your acquantance, Dave.

Roberts
Markakis
Tejada
Atkins
Weiter
Jones
Scott
Reimold
Izturis

A key is Atkins and whether he bounces back. He may be the best cleanup hitter in our lineup. Markakis and Tejada have not thrived in the role. If everyone can play up to their potential, our line is very competitive. The key is having enough players who can regularly contribute and not having to rely on one or two guy to carry the load. I believe we have achived that in signing Tejada. Another key is playing unselfish team ball - moving runners over, smarter base running, playing small ball when necessary, picking each out up, etc.

Gil -

I never said anything about people using their real names. I was poking some fun at Jimmy Jazz about it, but that was it. You must have misread or have me confused with someone elses post.

Anyway, I must be "the man" then. I even make my hometown public!! How about I change my name to Dave in Glen Burnie on Oakwood Road off of Hospital Drive!!!!!! There's some honesty for ya!

Joe Mulqueen, good analysis on the lineup. I would flip Reimold and Scott/Wiggington just because Reimold is much more steady. In fact I would make Pie the DH with him splitting time with Jones and Reimold in the OF, maybe playing LF/cf 20% of the time. I think the Os need to see what they have in Pie because they still need to add a number 4 bomber. Also, I wish I had your faith that Atkins will bounce back. I hope you're right but I just don't see it happening.