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January 7, 2010

Orioles appear out of Chapman derby

Several major league teams have dropped out of contention to sign Cuban defector Aroldis Chapman, and the Orioles appear to be among them, though there has been no official announcement to that effect.

Orioles beat reporter Jeff Zrebiec tells me that agents Alan and Randy Hendricks have not gotten back to Andy MacPhail since the Orioles apprised them of how the organization valued the hard-throwing left-hander. Club officials view that as a sign that the Hendricks brothers already have offers that far surpass the level of the Orioles interest. Sounds like a pretty good assumption when you're competing with the Red Sox and Angels.

It's possible that could change before Chapman signs, but the fact that he changed to higher-powered agents in the middle of the process means that this is going to come down to how big a contract he can squeeze out of a big-market team. No surprise there, of course, but the Orioles were probably hoping he held them in some extra esteem for coming to Cuba during his youth.

Once again, a situation comes down to a question of value at a time when a lot of fans think the Orioles have saved enough money over the past few years to splurge on somebody who might emerge quickly as a strong member of the pitching staff. I feel your pain, but the track record of some of the other Cuban pitchers who have reached the majors does not necessarily suggest that money should be no object.

Since I have to go on the radio soon -- Sportsline starts at six on WBAL and WBAL.com -- I'll let you take the discussion from here.


Posted by Peter Schmuck at 3:07 PM | | Comments (415)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

Good.

This team can't afford to waste money on potential.

Since the Angels and Red Sox are still in the bidding, I'm guessing it'll be something like four years, $20M.

Step 1: Save money by not signing Chapman.

Step 2: After 2010, don't say that Chris Tillman could be as good as Josh Beckett.

Step 3: Actually use the money that wasn't spent this offseason to freaking sign Josh Beckett.

"but the Orioles were probably hoping he held them in some extra esteem for coming to Cuba during his youth"

That is one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

The O's probably don't have the money.

It is not like they have dumped well over 30 million dollars in payroll the last few years...

Oh wait...

High risk, high reward. IDK. The Orioles should at least make a counter offer. I also read that Toronto is high on the list as well.

Did anyone really believe there was a chance they would actually spend money on a player? Not hardly.

Peter, It's all part of AM's secret plan to have Boston and New York spend themselves into bankruptcy.

I love how we don't have the money for these players, but the Twins and Pirates have no issues sign players like this.

1983 - TWENTY-SEVEN Years!

It's not about how much he costs, it's about how much he's worth. This is a guy who's going to get Strasburg money even though most prospect evaluators have him well below that level of performance.

And Schmuck is exactly right about Cuban pitchers --who is the last one who lived up to the hype? I can't name one. Contreras and Livan had decent careers but nothing that makes me hungry for the next edition.

Chapman is basically a really expensive lottery ticket. I don't blame the O's (or 25+ other teams) for not gambling. If you insist on beating the "Orioles are cheap" horse, pick a different whip.

Good. I don't want him for the kind of money he'll get.

I have no problem with them not pursuing Chapman. But after dumping all that payroll and making the revenues they're reputed to be making, if they don't do something significant on top of what they've done so far, they will be skating on pretty thin ice with even the most loyal and forgiving fans.

Don't waste money on "maybe's". Go after Adrian Gonzales hard and sign Bedard, who is still a No. 2 starter when healthy. Put up Tillman, Reimold, Scott, Arrieta, Wiggington and Patton and bite the bullet. Then we might compete!

Am I suppose to be surprised by this article. Hopefully my grand kids will see a winning season. Oh by the way I'm 23 yrs old so rebuild away

Folks,

GET REAL!

Quit letting all this chatter get your hopes up. This is Birdland! The only guys the O's want are cheap and no one else wants! It's simply the truth! I see our international market strategy is just like our free agent strategy, we sit back and wait the process out, only to sign the really old, really over, never gonna be's that no one else want and are cheap!

The truth will set you free!

Ed, Bedard isn't even going to be ready to pitch in 2010 until after the All-Star break. He's not the answer for next year.

And I could care less about wasting money on Chapman. We saved all this money to spend it on sure things, not lottery tickets.

The Orioles get a mulligan for 1 more year in my eyes while the kids get ready. There were no free agents this year worth the kind of money that was dealt out.

Next year however though with guys like Pujols, Mauer, and Brandon Webb hitting free angency, if the Orioles don't spend what they've been saving I will be done.

If we sign no one this year Andy better be offering Albert Pujols 7 or 8 years @ $30 million next year. No excuse not to.

This is the kind of financial "risk" that the O's should be taking. Not signing Holiday to 7 year, $130 mil contract made sense. That kind of contract can hamstring an organization for years. Failing to bid $24 million for a player they will control for 7 years reeks of thriftiness.

Micah -

Unless something catastrophic happens and the Cards decline his option, Pujols isn't a free agent until after the 2011 season.

So there's Andy's excuse not to offer Pujols 8 years @ $30M per.

Matt -

What makes you think Chapman would sign a seven year deal that isn't even worth $3.5M per?

If the Orioles ever thought he had a chance to get good players to be on the team, Orioles should just sign has beens cause they don't want to come to the Orioles. Why, they finish 4th place or dead last during the 2009 season. Who wants to come to the Orioles. If I was a ballplayer and the Orioles always finished 4th place or deadlast, I wud take less money to join another team to be on the Orioles. Always a pinstripe for life

I'm in support of the plan but a lefty throwing 95+ seems like a risk worth taking. He's a first round talent if he were in the draft and frankly worth a risk. None of the Cuban pitchers I can think of had as potentially dominating stuff as this guy.

They need to strike a balance between sticking to their guns and appearing to do nothing. LaRoche isn't that overpriced and realistically they are unlikely to sign pujols or mauer. The both prefer where they are at. They need someone consistent added in this year.

Hey Keith Rowe,

Get a life. Your negative O's bashing makes Mike Preston look positively giddy about the Ravens... maybe you should occupy your angst by rooting for a WNBA team or something.

Steve D and Matt are really Peter A and Andy...

Gotcha!

Who on here actually believes the os are going to have a winning season this year. Thats what i thought. No one. Im not usually one of those negative people who come on here but lets be honest there's no hope for this team. I was so much more optimistic last off season and look how they ended up. I just want to stop caring at this point.

I, for one, am glad. Way too much money to spend on such an unproven commodity. This money is better stashed away for the Pujols/Gonzalez/Fielder fund.

THIS IS TURDLAND!

Orioles appear out of Chapman derby.... and any other derby that involves spending money and winning!!!

Typical Peter A. Baltimore Baseball. The man won't even consider making a big move to help the club. Yes, we have a great stock pile of talent but without that one big bat and one power arm we will never return to the glory days in Birdland.

Pujols/Gonzalez/Fielder fund?!?!

Dylan you sound as drunk as Larussa when he was talking about Big Mac being a pinch hitter this season!! The Orioles will never ever get any of those names. You are better off rooting for the death of Peter Angelos and getting an owner that will keep the team in Baltimore and wants to win!!!!!!!!!

unproven commodity!?!?! LOLOLOLOL That sounds like the Orioles 2010 pitching staff.. and dont get me started on the PROVEN COMMODITY the O's have hahah thats a bunch of proven losers!

Dylan

You just dont get it man... The money stays stashed away! PA is like an old grandma that stashes cash all over the house while everyone else goes broke!

Dylan -

The O's have been stashing away money for "Player X" Fund since early 2004.

That January, they missed out on Vlad Guerrero, so they stashed money away for Carlos Delgado.

Delgado chose the Marlins over the Orioles, so the O's stashed money away for A.J. Burnett (Part 1).

Burnett went to Toronto, so the O's stashed money away for Carlos Lee.

Lee went to Houston, so you get the picture, I hope...

ORIOLES HAVE JUST SIGNED ANDRE DAWSON AKA THE HAWK TO 1 YEAR 100K DEAL TO PLAY DH!!!!

it makes me ask the question why does andy macphail tell us about players he wants to persue when way down under he has no plans to make any attempts to singn them. what is the status of david hernandez. we haven't heard anything about him lately.

leonard,

That would probably be due to the fact that he sucks and nobody cares outside this blog and MASN.

The Andre Dawson deal has been broken! The new DH will be no other than Jay "Raffy gave them to me" Gibbons!!

The Baltimore Orioles will be saving all the money they have from now until 2050 for alien prospect DiTura Gumare who has not been born yet but is supposed to be the best player ever.

Yahoo Sports just reported that FEMA has already declared the Orioles 2010 a disaster and is to be avoided at all costs...unless you are a glutton for punishment

CWW in Colora

Can yopu sell me some of those meds you are on? I need a boost bro c'mon man!!

Question: Is Bedard on schedule to pitch (occasionally) in 2010? If so why in the living hell haven't the O's signed him and Adam LaRoche??? What, exactly, are they waiting for?? Why is this team so damned slow at doing anything?

I am so glad that Mr Angelos saved that much movey. Who cares about players? totally overrated!

Not Brooks,

That's funny!..."and the music goes round and round, o ho o ho, o ho..............and it comes out here!"

Is the goal of the "plan" to make us Boston fans?

Hey BREAKING NEWS....good stuff but I have some bad news.....The Yankees already have the rights to alien prospect DiTura Gumare's parentoids, grand parentoids, sibloids, and spacecraft. The reason is simple. They not only own this planet but that one too.

Risks? Who needs em when you dont need to win games? No pressure! Who cares when you have a dead fanbase and have enough rev streams to keep the team going in spite of everything lol

Abandon hope all ye who enter here!!! This is not an exit!

I gave up several years ago. I was tired of the lies. Remember fans...grow the arms...buy the bats
As much as I hate to say it..the yanks/boston are a winning team b/c they are dedicated to winning!!!!!!!
So long suckers...
GO RAVENS

Pete,

Do the Orioles even care this season?

you are all suckers...Lies,Lies,Lies
Remember...grow the arms and buy the bats.....Haha
GO RAVENS

The new Mayor of Baltimore, the City Council, and the Stadium Authority have petitioned Bud Selig in an attempt to acquire a Major League Baseball Franchise.

There is an upside though. Rumor has it that the inhabitants on Gumare's planet have a few brain cells and therefore are deemed vastly superior to all Yankee fans who think that it is actually an achievement to win a world series AND pay millions and millions in salary cap penalties.

grow the arms and buy the bats aka GTAABTB is one of the best Macphail lines ever. It is the best pillowtalk ever! I bet Macphail is awesome at getting drunk chicks to come home with him at the bar. He probably doesnt need to flash the money at them hes got the silver in his mouth.

Gil,

It is a damn shame with everything Baltimore has to offer they still dont have a MLB team... oh well at least there is the NFL...

Did AM ever really say the line:

" grow the arms and buy the bats"

Or was it some focus group that created the line and then Jim Hunter or some other plan member relayed it to us??? Someone post a link of AM saying that!

Dont hold AM accountable for any of this stuff!!! Cmon people!! He thought he would be commish by now and not have to man up for this mess! LOL

I have watched the O's since '54 and I know it is an addiction, laced with perpetual disappointment, but I hope for the present O's to prove us wrong and compete this year. PITCHING IS THE GAME AND THAT CAN TURN THIS THING AROUND!

When AM said grow the arms and buy the bats he meant to only draft pitchers only and buy bats from the popular mag Eastbay.

At the conclusion of the 2010 season{which for the Orioles is July 5} The Orioles will play the York Revolution best 4 of 7 for the much coveted Mason-Dixon Championship.

Peter Angelos has vowed to crush the"Revolution"and get even with South Central Pennsylvania for no longer supporting the Orioles as they had for many years.

"Fair weather fans, those ungrateful bas**rds!", fumed Peter.. I'll bet Brooks Robinson is behind this"

Ed,

too bad we dont have any....

The Baltimore Orioles are in discussions with Tony Batista to play 3rd this season but for some reason Batista would rather dig ditches and take meds w/ booze!

It's all about next year or the one after that. Or something. Hang tight and watch the current batch of youth develop. You have no choice.

In the meanwhile the O's payroll has plummeted, so the odds are pretty good this will be a winning year for Angelos. With the payroll under control, and on the low end of the MLB scale, the O's are lining up winning seasons for a number of years. Bottom line is we have to wait out this year to see if Angelos' and MacPhail's definition of winning also includes the team's standing in the W/L column.

The core of young players is in place, If they are decent this year, we'll find out next off season if the O's plan to be cheap or will continue to define winning primarily by their profit margin. In the meanwhile, let the hoards of Red Sox and Yankee bandwagon fans fork their money over to Angleos. Most likely, you already pay enough for the privilege of watching crummy baseball on MASN.

I got a plan!!! Maybe the Orioles need to use that softball pitching program thing on those commercials on ESPN. Maybe with that they could step the game up and look like mean tough women’s softball team members. It would be a total image upgrade.

I wish Baltimore has some sportswriters to tell this tale on a national level... like an SOS or something....message in a bottle...yeaaa..its been 12 years since i wrote my note...

Why not wait a couple weeks and maybe afford a better option as the prices drop? We see how soft the market is and really have inhouse options if all else fails. It has always been to gear up for 2011. As all the prospects get some experience we see where our needs are and spend in a better market next year. If the pitching is as good as it could be, I think many of you will be eating your words. The O's are better than you give them credit for. We don't need to gamble 23+ million on an unknown where we may be able to get a couple of knowns to use now?

http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/report-yankees-out-of-running-for-aroldis-chapman.html

Looks like those cheapskate Yanks bailed on Chapman too! It couldn't possibly be a *baseball* decision, could it?

Ok, so we're out. Not too surprising, but I was hoping some of that money saved by not signing Holliday would be put to good use here.

That said, I thought the O's should max out at about $20 million on this guy and it seems the price tag is about $5 million above that from what I've read on mlbtraderumors. Oh well.

Here's hoping the Nats and Pirates pass on Bryce Harper. I'm sure he'll be looking for at least $15 million to sign after Strasburg got around that. Of course, whether we'd pony up that kind of cash remains to be seen...

Why is everyone so intent on trading off Riemold? He is only going to get better! Trading him would be a huge mistake.

Commissioner Bud Selig has denied the City of Baltimore's application to acquire a Major League Baseball franchise. Selig was quoted as saying "Are you kidding me? You have an AAA team down there now that you can't support. Attendance is coming down faster than Paris Hilton's knickers"

"Put together an ownership group that cares about about and knows something about Major League Baseball and come back". "The owner of the current AAA franchise and his son wouldn't know a baseball if it bit them in the a**." How do you lose 12 years in a row with all of that money that those trial lawyers have made and are obviously hoarding?' God knows they aren't spending it on legitimate talent"'

"If you can't find an owner who has any competence when it comes to this game, Baltimore will never get a Major League franchise".

Angelos has got to love AM. AM has dramatically cut payroll, pedaled a long term plan to fans for credibility and then gently pushes the plan back while Angelos makes big bucks. The O's are not going to spend any meaningful money on payroll. Remember the MASN money would allow us to spend. Nothing happened. Then it was the additional MASN money from the Nationals franchise would allow us to spend. Then it was "develop the arms and then buy the bats" as the next line of Oriole-speak. Meanwhile the payroll gets lower and lower.

It's all a hustle and we fans are the marks.

Lou

There will be 29 teams that will not sign him, I think you are looking at a highly paid relief pitcher at best. I would not stress over this, ,nor lose my head. Unless he can hit 40 home runs a year, he is not what is really needed by this club. He is 22 and will need seasoning before he pitches in the big leagues, but you have to pay him big league money. Move on forget about it.. Stop the moaning.

Over the last seven years the Orioles have the third highest earnings (revenues-costs) in all baseball. With the drop in payroll this year, the Orioles in 2010 will have the highest earnings of any team for the last 20 years. The Orioles are a team run to make money, winning is secondary. Its a major explanation for what will be 13 straight losing years after 2010. Over the last ten years 25 teams raised their payroll an average of 94%, 3 lowered it a little, two a lot, San Deigo at 20%, the Orioles at 19%. In 2010 this will be more like a 30% drop. The real crime here is our media lets Angelos get away with it. In extreme cases like Tom Davis, Anita Marks, and Dave Johnson they go overboard defending his right to do so, arguing that obvious facts are not true, dramatically changing the subject. A lot of the media are on the Orioles payroll (MASN) or their paper takes in a lot o money from the Orioles. Still its a great shame that none of the media will defend the fans or do the research to discover and prove the truth. Just how good are the estimates and the facts. Lets see the necessary investigative journalism to find out. Why are you the Media content to let him make all this money and foster a long term losing situation on the fans.

Shame we bow out of the Chapman sweepstakes. He'll be in a RedSox uniform in two years shutting us out.

Why we can't get the Sano's or Chapman is pretty doggone frustrating.

I am going to list the following sports team owners and anyone can rank them from worst to best.

Peter Angelos, Orioles
Al Davis, NFL Oakland Raiders
Donald Sterling, NBA LA Clippers
Randy Lerner, NFL Cleveland Browns,
Robert Irsay (deceased), NFL Colts

My choices, worst to best are Irsay, Angelos, Sterling, Lerner, Davis.

Lou

The Os could sign Miguel Tejeda, Noah Lowry and a middle relief pitcher for what Chapman would cost. I doubt if Chapman would pitch in the majors in 2010. MacPhail should just keep trying to improve the team for this year. Chapman is not going to help the Orioles win this year.

Dave,

That argument is tired and quite frankly boring, but if you really want to get some investigative journalism on the tails of the warehouse, you could always band together with the 10 or 15 other people on here who rant about the same thing, do some investigating yourself and write a novel on how Angelos killed the O's.

The only problem is, by the time you finish it, they'll be winning again.

Chris in Hawaii,

There is no chance the Orioles will be winning by the time someone could write a book about the BS. If anything the book could easily get written in 4-5 years. There are legions of pissed off fans that want to rebel and help but PA and his gang of scumbags would sue the piss out of the writers and the book never would then come out after PA dies and then maybe the team could start winning.

ahhhh Baltimore!! D-List baseball talent and F List writers!

WITH ALL THE TALK ABOUT BIG MARK MCGWIRE IN THE MEDIA TODAY THE ORIOLES HAVE SIGNED HIM TO PLAY DH FOR A 6 PACK OF NATTY BOH AND A NIGHT ON THE TOWN WITH JOSE CANSECO'S EX WIFE!!! PETER ANGELOS WAS QUOTED SAYING

A SLAM DUNK

Pete,

Can't come up with a better subject than this? I mean this is awful!

Chris in Hawaii, dude you seriously are laughable. You're like a public defender having to represent clients you know are 100% guilty.

Everyone in the room (including you) knows your client is guilty, yet you have to defend the indefensible.

You're actually defending the baltimore orioles! lol!

I mean bro, guys like you have become entertaining. You defend one of the worst teams in baseball, year after year after year, and you just keep selling losing - season after season.

That's what you're doing again this year. That's what you'll do next year. That's what you enjoy doing always......

I love it!

Aloha!

!!!sOLEGNA rEtep uOy eTaH Ew

!!!lLAbESAb dEnIUr gNiKCuF uOY

Wayne,

Dont worry 1 month into the season he will hang ten off this blog like he does every year hahah

PETE,

Please READ these post. Look at what is being said....not by the same ole fans who would be positive if the O's won 50 games, but the variety of fans who are simply fed up.

WRITE ABOUT THAT PETE! Write what people are really talking about. Write what the MAJORITY of people are saying, not just the 'selected' few.

DO NOT care about how it'll make the organization feel. The fans will back you up 110%.

COME ON PETE! THIS IS A NO BRAINER! DO YOUR PART!

All the years wasted and all the FAs that could have been..... Kids growing up not knowing the Orioles were ever good.... Its just sad...

...grow the arms...buy the bats! HAHAH

Wow! If its this bad already I cant wait to see these blogs in Sep hahah

You go Wayne!

Aroldis Chapman = Daniel Cabrera

CWW,

Must stand for Can't Watch Winning! Nice Post from the home of Log Cabin Republicans! I'm just a few steps ahead of you, I understand the reason we backed out of the Cuban deal was because we are trying to set up a visit there and it wouldn't be well received! Just an another excuse to help the Warehouse blow off doing anything that costs money!

The truth will set you free!

wayne -

If some Sun writer (Pete or someone else) wrote a piece about how frustrated O's fans are, how would that change anything?

Peter Angelos isn't an idiot. He knows that fans are walking out on this team and that they will continue to do so if the team continues to lose.

Do you honestly think that a few pieces about fan unrest would change anything?

Chris -

Which island are you on? I'm thinking about traveling in Hawaii for a few months. Which island would you recommend as a "home base"?

Wayne,
Pete isn't going to write anything bad about the O's, when the Sun closes the door on the rest of the Sports Dept, he'll be the first guy in line to work the MASN Blog, he's already demonstrated his loyalty!

Let's all just face the facts, if the financial figures on this blog are anywhere near true we're all screwed. There is no way the Angelos family will part with such a cash cow, so we should continue to expect more of the same for generations!

So far there are 88 quotes about a guy no one even knows is any good. Many of the same people who want the Brinks truck for this kid think the Orioles are foolish to bank on guy who are 23-26 and have actually pitched in the majors.

Makes sense right?

Pete, another article you should write about stating the obvious is that tomorrow is Friday. It's not a newsflash that O's fans are frustrated, so it's not some conspiracy that you're not ranting on it.

Blah.

James C,

The Cuban is just the latest issue presenting disapointment. I'm not convinced he is good or worth the cash he wants. But I'm all in with we'll grow our arms and buy our bats! Another lie! Or our wait and see and let the market play out, another lie to not spend money. Or our aggressive international market, another lie. What are we to believe, what we see happening? As all these folks look around our division and see what others who want to win are doing and then reflect on what were doing, it just isn't pretty and each passing day makes it harder to get behind all of what they are NOT doing!

James C

Its not the fact the O's didnt sign this kid its the fact that they dont want to sign anybody this season, they have Dave Trembley still and a team that is got enough talent to lose close to 100 games!

Pete is using this blog as an audition to tap some of those Angelos revenue streams with MASN….. You have to be a like a Jim Hunter level douche bag to get up in that glory hole though… Pete is on that level but he’s got work to do.

Aroldis Chapman = Daniel Cabrera

That is the dumbest comment ever posted on this blog! Congrats Tony P!!

IF Chapman was like D-Cab the Orioles would have signed him kept him for years kinda like what the O's are doing with Guthrie..

Tony P in AZ = Ponson's coke habit

Chapman is better than most the O’s current pitching staff

not brooks,

Absolutely it makes a difference! You have no idea the power of the media.

Angelos has NEVER felt heat, not the kind of heat owners get in other cities.

Some of you live on an island. How the Baltimore media treats the Orioles is unlike any other city in the country.

You have no idea the difference it can make!

Angelos castrated the fans and MLB by getting too much control. He doesn’t need anybody now so he can do whatever the F he wants. This very subject is what MLB needs to think about... Bad owners getting too much power...

PA should never have been given the MASN network it’s been totally downhill since.

Wayne, I believe I posted a couple of ideas for you to take your fantastic griping to the masses, to blow the lid off of everything Orioles, for you to tell a story that you feel needs telling so badly that you feel the need to come on here and bitch at Pete to do it. Why not take matters into your own hands if it's that important? I'm left to guess that it's really not so important that rather than being some kind of public voice of discontent and agent for real change, you'd just rather be on here griping to people who feel like you.
I don't get your lack of action in this regard.

By the way, I just picked up my check(with a hefty bonus) AND season tickets from THE WAREHOUSE today. Petey flew me in from the Caymans, where AM was nice enough to let me and the family vacation on his yacht for the better part of 2 weeks. Yes, if you must know, some of the 35m in Oriole salary savings has provided the org with a nice fleet of, shall we say, corporate craft. Damn, I love this job!!

They also suggested that I post the following:
Oh Wayne, you're such a hoot! I read the blog just to read your splendid drivel, I mean insight! Yours is the sweet voice of reasonable dissent that sets us all free to continually bitch and moan about things over which we have no control!!! I thank God every night for you!!!! Don't ever stop!!!!!
Signed,
Secret Blog Admirer

I told them I would never do such a thing. I mean, even though I shill for them doesn't mean I've lost all shred of integrity...

not brooks,

Depends on what you wanna do while you're in Hawaii.

If you wanna see volcanoes, The Big Island is your best bet.

If you wanna just hang out and chill, then Maui or Kauai are probably the best ideas. Personally, I think Kauai is a bit more beautiful than Maui.

If you want the Waikiki experience, then Oahu is for you. (That's where I am) Plus, there are all the north shore beaches (Pipeline, Waimea & Sunset) that are famous for the surf. But if you wanna see big waves at those spots, your best bet is to come now, during the Winter. Right now all the swells are on the north side of the island and then in the summer, they'll shift to the south shores. My favorite beach, Makapu'u, is on the south-east side.

Oahu also has Diamond Head and you should probably see the Pearl Harbor Memorial if you come here.

My recommendation is to spend a little over a week here. Come in on a Thrursday, or Friday and spend the weekend relaxing on Kauai (you'll probably be a little jet-lagged) and then on Monday or Tuesday move over to Oahu and do all the busier, more touristy stuff until you fly out.

That's just my opinion though, I don't know if Chuck in Hawaii would concur with me. Between the two of us though, I think you could probably get a good idea of what to do.

You know Wayne you and I and others on here do need to do something. We need to petition the Maryland Tax Authority to institute a 75% tax on earnings over 20 million for Maryland Pro Sports teams. The Orioles record earnings in 2010 will be about 60 million.

What a bunch of reactionarys you guys have become!

Chapman = Who TF cares?

You act like the man has actually proved anything. Like he's Lincecom or something.

It's gotten to the point where we're going to crucify the management for every player they don't sign? There are 29 other teams in MLB last time I checked.

You don't build by throwing rediculous money at unproven products or player's who don't fit your team's needs. (i.e. giving superstar money to players who are only marginally better than inexpensive players already under contract) If it was up to you guys we'd have our $90 million payroll with Holliday, Larouch and Chapman to show for it. Personally, I'll choose to excerise slightly more patience than a cranky 4 year old and see what AM has up his sleeve in the next 12 months or so.

Adam, I think the ORIOLES will have a winning season... maby 77 to 81 wins. To me that would be a winning season.

All,

I know everyone has seen the Miller Lite commercial with Jim Mora shouting PLAYOFFS, PLAYOFFs. Well when I see people using the term Winning, I could fall out of my chair LOL! Folks not losing 95 games with this roster in the AL East might constitute winning. There is a need for a HUGE Reality check here. Winning as in winning more games than losing isn't even near an option and that saddens everyone on this blog or they wouldn't be here. But please refrain from using the winning unless you just mean not losing as badly, that's reality!

The truth will set you free!

Peter-

Here ya go, and I am not advocating signing Chapman, I am just putting up the numbers.

From 1995 through the 2001 season, the Orioles average annual payroll was 88.45 million dollars.
From 2002 through the 2009 season their annual payroll was, drumroll please... 53.68 million dollars.

So, for the past 8 seasons, they have saved $280 Million!!.
OK, so lets look at the draft... with the bonuses to Matusz and Weiters, they have actually spent 18 million more in the amatuer draft since 2002 then they did on the drafts from 1995 through 2001.
So, they have spent a little more on the draft.
Ok, lets deduct $18 Million from the $280.
That leaves $262 Million dollars that have gone right into Angelos's pocket.
Does he care? No. Its all about maximizing profits.
If he makes more money with just 20 tickets sold, and a 50 million dollar payroll than he would selling out every night and 110 million dollar payroll, then thats exactly what he is going to do.

Now, with all that money that has been saved, and the fans having to put up with 12 losing seasons, when it comes time to extend Weiters, Jones, Matusz, Reimold etc. if they all pan out to be superstars, there should be plenty of money to lock every one of the core players up.
Its sickening to think that we were once the highest payroll in MLB and now we have to hear how we can't play with the big dogs. lol. What a joke. They could sign LaRoche tommorrow for 20 million and it wouldn't impact the bottome line 1 bit.
But no, we have to wait for the market to pan out. Meaning, whoever no one else wants, we'll sign and Macphail will call it a smart buy.
I mean, who cares if it means 3 or 4 more losses. Lets not try to win every game we can. Our fans can take it.
F'rs.

Wa WA WA WA Wa!!! Let's go young--oh wait--Cuban pitchers don't pan out--oh wait grow the arms buy the bats-WA WA WA WA Wa!!! There is an excuse for everything

Go Get Laroache already. He finished real strong, has really never been protected in the line up, and could be a 30/100/270 3rd basemen for the next 3 years and 30 mil. you have to overpay a little to get him in B-More but so be it. My God this admin is really starting to @#$# me off!

sorry i meant 1st baeman!

Yes Jim66, you are shill for the O's.

A major shill at that! Whatever works for you dude!

Frank and John,
I didn't realize there were so many scouts here on the blog. How many games have you guys watched Chapman pitch?
Now the "experts", you know the guys who actually get paid to scout players, are saying he is not a MLB starting pitcher, but would be better used in the bullpen... but I am sure you two and your years of scouting experience are right... I am sure he will be miles ahead of all the other Cuban pitchers that have defected... Livan , El Duque, Contreras... Get out your check book, Pete! Chapman is the ANSWER!!! World Series Here We Come...

"Next year however though with guys like Pujols, Mauer, and Brandon Webb hitting free angency, if the Orioles don't spend what they've been saving I will be done".......................lol. Well, I guess I should tell you your done a year in advance. Never, no way no how, would PA go after any of the names you mentioned. Never!

Is there one person on this earth who actually believed that the Orioles were ever in the running for Chapman. If you find one, don't tell that person that there is no Easter Bunny. It would crush him/her.

PETE,

LOOK AT THE POST!

The ridiculous are being completely drowned out. They no longer had any cred.....

PETE, write about how the MAJORITY of fans feel.

If you'd like, write about the good things..... the developing players, the minor system, the new spring facility. But also go HARD at why this is still a pathetically bad baseball team.

Talk about relying on two rookies coming off of major injury's.

Talk about having possibly the worst offensive corners in baseball.

Talk about having no proven hitters to protect players like Markakis and Weiters.

Talk about no clean-up hitter.

Talk about how three fifths of the rotation is comprised of rookies (basically).

Talk about them being #26 of 30 in payroll despite baltimore not being a small market,,,,,

It's all right in front of you!

LOOK AT THESE BLOGS PETE. WHY HAVE ONE IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TRULY SPEAK FOR THE FANS?

Not the typical SOFTBALL criticism. But real commentary that represents the vast MAJORITY OF YOUR READERS.

It's TIME!

Matt Holliday and Jason Bay were pretty much the only guys worth any money this off-season.

If you had to pick any two guys in the league to tie the Orioles truck to, would either of them be that guy? I didn't realize Matt Holliday's nickname was Jostens for all of the rings he brings to the teams he's played for.

I'm disappointed too, but those guys weren't the guys I ever felt we had to have. They would have been nice, but they both demanded money of franchise players. I know you'd rather have them now and it's a conspiracy and Angelos will never spend and whatever.

If anything, I'd still be upset that Texeira is in New York. If you were ever going to just throw insane money at someone, he should have been it. I know 2009 was meant to be a training year for the young guys basically, but he would have still sold tickets, held off the naysayers and made the team more attractive when the time came to pull the trigger.

Matt Holliday is not as good an option as Texeira this year in just the same way he's not as good as some of the people who will become available in July and this November.

It sucks. Losing sucks, but the rest of the league looks at St. Louis and the Mets as suckers for paying what they did. No one was serious on Holliday and obviously no one else wanted to pay Bay either. He openly hated on the Mets, but still had to take their check. So I'm sorry I don't think the Orioles are dumbasses for not being an even bigger sucker and paying even more.

Frank,

The Orioles started DCab at $325,000 and $385,000 his first two years. This kid wants over $3MM each year. Daniel Cabrera NEVER made more than that as an Oriole. Same prototype. So what happens when you tap a guy to pitch 200+ innings and expect him to bring heat in situations his body and mind has never been tested?

Dave,

You should have wayne cancel his season ticket package first in the meantime while you wait for your petition to go through. It'd have faster results.

Why not demand the Commish to mandate the spending of a percentage of the revenue of each team, real revenue not the lies the owners report. Set a percentage each team can spend of their total gross revenue. I mean establish a miinimum and maximum prcentage, maybe a 5% swing, then turn the accountibility to the fan base to support their team. So the more the fans support their team, the more the owner must spend on the players. This could impact the pricing of players or force teams to be more realistic in what they can and cannot do.

Maybe the owners will get the message and bring in players that will stimulate the fan base to get out and support the team. Baltimore has not shown the support. Capacity crowds only arrive for games against the Yankees and Red Sox, and this is because their fans fill Camden yards. Just a thought.

I'm ok w/not signing him b/c there is too much risk, bad track record of these highly touted Cuban pitchers, and the $ will be better spent next year: hopefully on the likes of Beckett

Of course they will not sign Chapman, If the old Man wouldn't open the wallet for Sano,the shortstop that their top scout said was the best latin talent he had ever seen, and plays a position we are lacking in talent at all stages of out system, and could have been signed for under 4 million, there was never a chance they were going to sign Chapman..it was all lip service to placate the fans..just like with T-REX before he sign last yr with New York!

The Yankees signed a Tyrannosaurus Rex last year?

How did I miss that?

MONEY MONEY MONEY: there seems to be an assumption that since the O's have money, they NEED/MUST/ARE OBLIGATED to spend it immediately/right now. Yeap, these are the same Americans that bought Homes they can't afford. Fiscal discipline/prudence should be secondary to short term interests uh? I guess I didn't realize that the O's had so many Wall Street guru's.

After all, if only the O's had Bay, Holliday, Lackey, the O's would be Pennant winners already. (sarcasm richer than Warren Buffet here)

ONE YEAR. ONE YEAR, is all we've seen of the Kids all playing together and already fans are in frenzy. The word is DEVELOPMENT. Nobody (from AM to us Fans) knows what type of players they will turn out to be.

Wayne: lets assume that the O's spent freely this year and got all the best names. Next year the Yankees and Sox spend to get Beckett, Mauer, Crawford, Webb, and Pujols. Would the O's have a competitive team then? I bet you'd be the First to scream about getting rid of AM because he didn't sign any of the 2011 Free Agents either. Try, Wayne, to see the Forest from the Trees.

*Play the 2010 year out to see how the Kids develop to Better understand the Clubs needs going forward.
*SAVE the Mountain of money for next year's Free Agent market get Beckett/Webb/Mauer; 2 birds 1 stone--improve O's, marginalize other clubs in the division.

And we are supposed to believe the O's are committed to building a winner why ???

This is a joke, Im done w/ em'

And we are supposed to believe the O's are committed to building a winner why ???

This is a joke, Im done w/ em'

O's = cash cow. Winning is secondary

Memo to O's hitters: Don't hit anything anywhere near third base in 2010 against the Red Sox.

Here's why: http://blog.masslive.com/redsoxmonster/2010/01/video_new_red_sox_third_basema.html

paulie,

Who said anything about spending in such a manner? I sure as hell didn't!

You spend according to your market size (see St Louis). You spend in order to compliment the developing players. You spend to be competitive, and you spend to put a decent product on the field for the fans.

You actually believe this club will seriously bid for the kind of players you're suggesting next year? Where the hell have you been? Are you kidding me? Wake the F up!

And anyone else believing that they'll use the dollars they're saving this year toward next years crop ----- IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

Give me ONE example of how it works that way with this organization.

PETE - You could EASILY explain it in a column! Come on Pete!


paulie -

I'd be 100% with you if it weren't for the pathetic history of this ballclub.

"Nobody (from AM to us Fans) knows what type of players they will turn out to be."

That is exactly why AM needs to acquire a big bat and a top shelf starter now. (Or why he should have done so before they were all taken.) We have no idea what kind of ballplayers the kids are going to be. So why not surround them with an All Star or two? You kill about 700 birds with one stone if you do that.

"*SAVE the Mountain of money for next year's Free Agent market get Beckett/Webb/Mauer"

I'll believe that when I see it. As I noted earlier, the O's have been "saving" or "stashing away" money each year since they missed out on Vlad Guerrero prior to the 2004 season. There's always been a reason to not spend that money.

Suppose Matusz, Tillman and Bergesen each progress and win 12-15 games in 2010. We've seen several posters say that the O's should have passed on Holliday from the start because they already have Nolan Reimold (who hasn't proven a damn thing). And Reimold's probably the main reason Andy didn't pursue Holliday more seriously. So, if the "Big Three" put up solid numbers in 2010, won't Andy figure that, by that same logic, the O's should pass on Cliff Lee, Josh Beckett and Brandon Webb? Cheaper is better right?

And what if it goes the other way? What if we get a bunch of poor performances from out top young players? Won't everyone say, again, that it's not the right time? That AM shouldn't spend big before the young nucleus proves itself?

MacPhail and Angelos have put themselves in a unique position, whether they meant to or not. If the young team, as a whole, is moderately successful, they can just say, after 2010, that they're going to continue to watch the young players progress and save money for extensions for said young players. If the young team, as a whole, isn't successful, they can just say, after 2010, that "now isn't the right time to spend big."

Convenient, isn't it?

So the fact that Angelos sucked up to a tin horn dictator hasn't paid off? Perhaps he didn't bow low enough.

Go on any poorly ran baseball teams blogs the Pitts, Orioles etc of the world and the fans get the same BS.. talk of a plan from the front office but no action. The really sad thing is that Baltimore has the nerve to act like a small market team and make people think they are struggling when PA is just stockpiling money! It is a disgrace! Is the plan for PA to save a billion dollars in 10 more years then field a real MLB baseball team?

not brooks is not funny!

Anybody that thinks Josh Beckett would consider coming to Baltimore from Boston should seek professional help.

Saving money for future free agents?? Are you really buying that?? Really?? You would have been 1st in the Kool-Aid line at Jonestown!! They say that every year, and the only players we end up spending that saved FA surplus money on is Mark Hendrickson and that type player....come on man!!!!

What are the chances the O's sign Delgado or LaRoche? Why isn't their more interest in Laroche?

Didn't the O's almost trade Roberts for him a few years back. Both that veto, and the Ervin Santana trade vetoes were good calls by Pete. With McPhail, hopefully he won't have to get involved and stop bad deals from going through. So far so good, but would like to see someone else signed this offseason besides Crede.

I had a nightmare last night that the O's traded a bunch of talent to the Yankees for AJ Burnett. I shudder to think of it.

Shut your face you horrible fans! And just give Peter Angelos all your money!

Look at this years Orioles pitching staff lol. Not one guy in this pathetic rotation could make the 3 spot on Boston’s NY’s and maybe Tampa/Toronto. Don’t even give me that crap about they are rookies and all that because on real teams there is enough talent already in the majors they could start the kids in AAA and keep them there until the guys in the majors are ready to be traded, retired or whatever. The Orioles using this rotation are basically saying with the infield mess and Trembley that winning doesn’t matter this season. This team is trapped in the basement every damn season and PA holds the key.

You guys are being total jerks!!! Aroldis Chapman escaped Cuba to come to America to live a life of dictator free living! That’s why he wont come to Baltimore! He wants to make money and be away from evil scumbags like Peter Angelos! We saw the pic of him with you know who and Angelos would probably just give him back for a reward hahahhahaha

Baltimore = Cuba

Cuba is not worse than Baltimore.. Last time I checked the murder rate is lower there and they have good health care and the baseball team doesn’t suck. Also the women look much better and the weather is nice less drugs etc.

wayne's evil twin,

I don't need an evil twin but thanks!

not brooks,

Terrific post...... That's exactly how the warehouse has positioned post 2010.

Come on PETE! Read the post. Fans are fed up! And they're much more fed up than even these post display.

PETE!

Pete cant do that Wayne. PA owns his butt.

Baltimore is worse than Cuba. The city is known for an HBO show actually showing how dysfunctional the city is that made the whole respectable world laugh. Everyone in the city has experienced some form of violence or poverty. It’s a mess every aspect of this place is jacked. I’d rather live in Cuba than here!

Yes the Wire was fiction but anybody that has been here knows that this place is a hellhole and many true things went into the show.

Chapman probably saw the wire and is scared to sign here! That or maybe a picture of Peter Angelos!

John -

I lived in Baltimore City for the first 15 years of my life and never experienced any sort of violence or poverty (though I wouldn't say my family was rich).

Keep it up though, buddy. Because profiling and stereotyping is fun, right?

Side note: It's cool that my user name has generated a cult following. "Not Not Brooks" is particularly entertaining.

Violence and poverty is not a sterotype in Baltimore its fact.

Good for you Andy M! Why give this ungrateful little commie a bunch of Peter's money? After all, Peter A. opened up Cuba like Nixon did China. If Chapman couldn't throw a baseaball 100 mph he'd be shucking sugar cane for the collective and driving a 1955 Chevy.

Andy, you are wise not to spend Peter's money on mere potential. Save it for name free agents. But not this year, they want too much and they aren't that good. Save it for 2012. No,wait, I read the names and those greedy b**tards will probably want to much too. Screw them. Let's hold on till 2013. Actually 2014 is shaping up well.

America's Most Dangerous Cities

No. 10 Baltimore, Md.
(Baltimore-Towson, Md., metropolitan statistical area)

Population: 2,652,974
Violent Crimes per 100,000: 791

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/most-dangerous-cities-lifestyle-real-estate-dangerous-american-cities_slide_7.html?thisSpeed=undefined

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cu.html

You guys might want to look up Cuba. All around it looks like a better place than Maryland lol

John -

You're right. But violence and poverty is a fact in any fairly large city.

And you said that "Everyone in the city has experienced some form of violence or poverty." That is not a fact.

Anyways, if you hate it so much, why don't you just move?

The unemployment rate in Cuba is lower than Maryland!

Oter than the whinners who would never give any credit to anything the Os have done, there were some good comments here. The signing of Markakis and Roberts is an indicater they will try to keep the best youngsters. I agree with those who said why throw away money on guys like Chapman. I will extend that to say why also throw away money on guys like LaRouche and Crede. Look, what the Os need to COMPETE in the AL east is a strong number 4 hitter. That's not LaRouche. It's also not Garret Atkins. Right now, it's not anyone on the O's roster. In fact, the only one who has potential is Wieters but that's not at all certain. IF the Os had a Prince Fielder hitting number 4 and playing first base and IF the young pitchers performed up to their potential then THEY COULD COMPETE with the Yanks and Sox. They have to get a number 4 and yes IT WILL COST MONEY but the good news is They seem to have money! With Aubrey playing first next year and Atkins at 3rd, with Millwood, Matuez, Bergesen, Guthrie and whomever (Patton) as starters and with an apparently improved bullpen (haven't we said that before?) the Os could win 85 games. That's not COMPETING. I'm a very positive fan but I have to admit the Os have done NOTHING to indicate they ever intend to truly compete in the AL East. Show the fans the money-bring in a big bat at number 4.

not brooks: re: Big Bat vs. Riemold. Surronding the kids with All-Stars is a good idea, no doubt; but the cost of such players vs. the return on investment could be bad. Say you do get a big bat, and all the kids stink...big contract, disgruntaled All-Star, franchies could be hamstrung by such a contract. Obviously, to get All-Star talent into Baltimore is going to cost more than market value.

wayne: Over the past 20 years, the PA era, the O's have been in the top 5 of payroll for like 14 of those years....and to what ends: championship, pennant? So they're not spending like they were 4 years ago, and redirecting their resources toward scouting, player development, and score boards.

It's not like the O's never spent a dime on Top Free Agents before, during Peter Angelos era...Miggy to name one, but the O's have spent big money and gotten nothing for it.

I'm not pesamistic about next years Free Agent market: the O's have spent before, they have the resourses, and both PA (trying to sell the team) and AM (trying to be a Commish) are pretty motivated to achive sucess. This is like watching Sasuage being made--just wait till the Kilbassa is cooked...nobody likes raw meat.

paulie -

Since when is Angelos trying to sell the team?

And what makes the winter of 2010-11 different from this winter? Or last winter? Or the winter before that? Or... I hope you get the point.

One more thing, paulie...

Angelos' group of investors bought the O's for $173M in 1993. When MASN was created, Angelos got Major League Baseball to set the value of the franchise at a $360M sale price, guaranteed. That's a $187M profit for Angelos, regardless of what the franchise is actually worth.

So, when it comes down to it, even if Angelos was considering selling the franchise, what sort of motivation could he possibly have to make the team better? He's going to get his $187M profit no matter what.

Not Brooks,

Thats on top of the half a billion hes got saved from not spending money on players.

*snore*

Non Brooksie,

A couple things. While driving to work late today a tenured and respected New York sportswriter, {I think his name was Marty Noble, not sure} was interviewed on a local sports talk station. He admitted withholding his vote on Alomar based on what he called Alomar's "pitiful" 222 games with the Mets in 2002/2003. He said many New York writers did the same, because they were sure that Alomar would get in anyway. He will vote for Alomar next time because he said he deserves to get in, but the way Alomar laid down for the Mets was disgraceful and he wanted to make a statement.

This blog is starting to head into the twilight zone. There is no middle ground here. People like me who think Macphail has done some good things but could accelerate the process a little are called names. People who just want to see the plan carried all the way through by natural selection are called names. People like you who are pragmatic but think that a big bat could have been added are called names.

Anybody who uses the term"win now" in a sentence is called names. People with legitimate patience are called names.


I also see evidence of phantom posters, using multiple screen names, and mutliple posts. People don't use real names, they invent monikers for each post thought.

Am I off base but have we forgotten the prime directive on the blog, and that was the frank exchange of opinions?

I came to this opinion because a few weeks back the words"moron","idiot", and"Jerk" were used dozens of times on just one thread.

Can't we all just get along?


signed,

Rodney King.

not brooks, you're coming around, Im glad to see it

BTW, for all of you "rebuilding takes 5 yrs or more crowd"

The Tigers lost 119 games in 2003

The Tigers were in the World Series in 2006

Total time elapsed-- 3 yrs

This is Andy's 3 rd yr and hes still "evaluating" talent and debating for when the right time to spend it is (HE NEVER WILL THOUGH BECAUSE HE NEVER HAS)

The Tigers were in worse shape in 2003 than the Os were in 07 when AM took over. However, they took some chances and signed some FA's.

WHile their FO took chances and signed some proven performers, they got outstanding improvement from their young pitching. As a result, they went from a complete and utter laughingstock to the World Series and it didnt take 15 friggin yrs.

they even added the best under 25 player in the game and signed a few players below market value so they could "play for a winner"

Apparently, you can turn the team around in 3 yrs, but u might have to kick in a few bucks.

Before anybody gives me any crap about them cutting payroll now, save it.
Detroit was the worst victim of the failing economy and is still in a position to contend anyway. I dont think asking for a contender is too much to ask after 13 yrs of losing

Before you give me any more excuses about the ALeast, well we were the last team to outspend the yanks and could easily profit at a payroll of 100 million with attendance at 2.2 million(see 2007). If we started winning and got attendance back to 3.7 million, we could spend 165 million and still be one of the most profitable teams in the game. BTW, Most economists agree that making the postseason is worth a 50 million dollar windfall to the team.

In other words, winning could simply pay for itself.

Too bad that the Os are content with being in the top 5 of profitability without doing all of that work and taking all of those risks required to field a winner

Macphail said "grow the arms...buy the BATS" .
Not the batters.

jason -

I think all of the articles about how the Cardinals grossly overpaid for Holliday without any real competition knocked me over the edge.

Anyways... Nice post. The Tigers are a great example of what the O's should be doing. They had that nice core of young pitching and complemented it by taking a few risks - signing Magglio Ordonez, Pudge Rodriguez and Kenny Rogers - which helped the team take the next step.

Sure, they're a bit handcuffed now, but if they hadn't made two horrible decisions that most certainly looked horrible at the time - allowing Magglio Ordoñez's 2010 option to vest and signing Dontrelle Willis to that ridiculous extension - they wouldn't be in that position.

not brooks--fair point about the value already having been raised by MASN; but who buys a sports franchies to simply make money (it's a very poor investment for making money--owning sports teams isn't about making money as much as it's like owning a Mahbach, Status). Aside from that, I think/beleive that most owners do Want to win/be loved by fans.

GIL--thank you so much, and you're right. The vitriol at times is silly. To further you point, does calling someone a "fool" advance a perspective/argument?

Jason C.--Fair point, but there are some things about the Detroit example that you fail to mention. Such as the Emergance of a unbelievable rookie in Verlander, the aquiring of Miquel Caberea (and Dontral Willis @ 20 million per) and one Exceptional coach in Jim Lyland. If the O's could trade for Lyland it'd be as good as any bat. Almost. and remember too that they gave Ordoneze a huge pay day that may have been a little too much since he's never lived quite up to that contract.

paulie -

If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would have let the guys who know baseball do their jobs. during the mid 90's.

If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would have brought in a real GM after the Gillick/Wren era instead of making us suffer through Syd Thrift and Mike Flanagan.

If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would have actually spent some money on players instead of "stashing it away for next year" every year since 2004.

If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would open up his wallet and let Andy spend some money on some real proven talent to complement the young players.

I'd love to believe that Peter Angelos wants to win and be loved by fans, but there's no evidence supporting your case. All the evidence shows that he's a greedy, meddling miser who's just in it for the money.

Oh, and you're probably right about the Tigers overpaying Magglio Ordoñez. If you're only looking at Ordoñez's numbers, they don't seem to add up to his average annual salary. But the fact is that Ordoñez was a key factor in the Tigers' World Series run in 2006. What fan of a long suffering franchise wouldn't mind seeing his team overpay a guy by $3 or 4M if that overpayment meant that his team would have a realistic shot at making the playoffs?

I've read a number of critical posts about Trembley. He doesn't really inspire confidence, but how many losses can we pin to him?

I would love to see us sign a new manager that is a proven winner, but I'm not sure who that could be. I wouldn't mind seeing Bobby Valentine come to town. How many wins do you all think a better manager could add?

Garry -

Two or three, maybe.

Managers and coaches are only as good as their players.

Weren't the Tigers about to "blow it up" this winter?

They remind me of the 1996 & 1997 Orioles imploding fast when the risks and bad contracts all caught up with them. They tanked in 2008 and had to take on Washburn and Huff's bad contracts to get close in 2009.

Leyland will be available in 2011, so there is that at least if you guys want him.

Not Brooks

That rule does not apply if your manager is named Dave Trembley. I heard Jim Hunter will be the next one because we said he will take the job for 75% less than anyone and do his normal job in the booth also.

1996?

I'll take that tomorrow! Winning games, meaningful games, playoff games........

Ahhh, the post season at Camden Yards! What great memories!

Follow that team up with PA listening to Gillick, and we're talking about something else today. What a shame!

Anonymous -

How does the rule not apply to Trembley?

Trembley was dealt an ugly hand of players, and he put up an ugly record. If a couple of the young starters put up solid seasons in 2010, Trembley will have a slightly better team, so he'll put up a slightly better record.

Trey Hillman was a stud manager in Japan. He went to Kansas City and got a team full of garbage, so his KC results are garbage.

Joe Girardi had a mediocre team in Florida in 2006, and his record was mediocre. He had a good team in New York in 2008 and his record was good. He had a great Yankee team in 2009 and put up a great record.

Bobby Cox was the best manager in baseball when he had the best regular season team in baseball. Most of the players from that team are gone, and Cox's Braves have finished in 4th place in two of the past three seasons (3rd in the other one).

One more, and he's not a manager, but a pitching coach: Leo Mazzone. Widely regarded as the best pitching coach ever when he was working with Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Steve Avery, et al. He came to Baltimore, and his reputation was destroyed.

Should I go on?

Not Brooks,

Thank you. Your points are the points I have made and been absolutely villified for on this blog. There is absolutely no reason, and I say again no justifiable reason, to start a long term rebuilding plan without the flexibility to add proven talent as you go forward to buck up the young players.

This offseason was the time to add the big bat in the middle of the lineup. The argument that"well, let's wait awhile and see how the young kids do before we spend any money on FA's is the most ridiculous logic I have ever heard. Translated it means"Let's lose awhile longer so we can get a better handle on just what it is we need to add".

Losing awhile longer will make some of the prospects worse, not better. Beltre would have been my choice at the very least, moving up to Bay then Holliday.

The offseason moves Macphail made should have been just the start. Now if he adds one more stopgap player he will declare success.

This offseason could have been wildly successful for the Orioles in order to stir fan interest in the belief that the team really had a chance in 2010. Instead, Macphail crawls forward, in his inimitable style, oblivious to the wreckage in fan committment that has become the Baltimore Orioles.

Not Brooks,

Trembley is a AAA guy at best but you are right that we will never truely know if he can manage at the MLB level because PA will fire him before next season for losing near 100 games. Yes he probably deserved to have some better players but hes a fallguy we all know it and hes not trusted with things that cost too much money. All hes supposed to do is keep the seat warm and take a good ol firing in Oct.

One more thing,

I would like to assume that the people who post here do it out of the love for the game and our Baltimore Orioles. I will give the benefit of the doubt to others who may be on here strictly as shills for the organization.

But consider this: As fans who travel in our peer groups on a daily basis, how many of you have run into an Oriole fan that thinks that Macphail should take as long as he needs, and that winning is not the important thing, rebuilding for the long term is, no how many years of losing it takes?. Really? How many people do you know tyhat share that attitude?. I will offer that my experience is anecdotal, but I have met NO ONE in or around Baltimore that has any more patience at all with this organization. My anecdote is this: Most fans and ex-fans say that" If they want my money, they need to start winning".

Somehow, the "patience is a virtue" posters seem to be a very small fan sample but are way over represented on the blog. Why is that?

Sure, there are some out of town fans who remember the glory days and track the team through blogs and rotisserre games and no longer have a monetary chit in the game. They don't spend any money on anything other than log in time on their computer.

But the fans who go to the games, or used to go to the games, the fans that matter to the organization from a financial standpoint...how do they really feel?

Ih the pro-Macphail bloggers are really in the majority, then why is attendance down by half in ten years? Folks, that is just not logical.

One thing that makes no sense is why did AM keep Trembley when they didnt get him any real upgrades in the offseason? The whole thing looks like PA didnt want to fire Trembley because he is cheap and they didnt want to get a replacement that may cost more cash.

ot sure if it is still there, but on the main page a couple of days ago was a poll that asked readers whether they thought MacPhail had done a good job so far this offseason. The results were 73% yes with just 27% no. There was something like 6000 votes cast, far, far more in numbers than people who participate on this blog.

flip,

All those polls are the sun messing around man hahah if you look at the polls here for a year or so and you will see its the staff.

Gil,

I found your last post to be pretty offensive. I'm an out of town fan and I still drop money to attend games every year. In fact, it costs me Yankee Stadium luxury box ticket prices just to see a game and I make under $30K a year.

I go to the games that I can and I buy merchandise from the store in the warehouse. I sport my Orioles shirts all year long. The fact that you would say all I spend is "log in time on my computer" is flat out wrong.

I thought you were better than that, Gil.

The Orioles just need to sign Vlad to play cleanup and get over it.

Tom,

Vlad has no knees and his power is depleted. You'd have a better chance at throwing him out from the outfield than Boog Powell.

And I'm talking about Boog nowadays.

Chris in Hawaii

Good for you that you make 30k a year and give a percentage to a rich dying old man lol moron... Maybe you should save that money instead... dude invest it or something instead of wasting it. oh well Hang ten man!

Chris in Hawaii

Wow you are a moron! Who is our cleanup hitter right now? Oh yeah thats right! We dont have one! I am all for getting Vlad or anybody out there that can blast homeruns.

I think people from Baltimore hate Vlad because that hilarious home run he hit last season after the Orioles intentionally walked the guy in front of Vlad. I dont think that ball has landed yet rofl

NOT BROOKS IS NOT STRAIGHT!

Chris in Hawaii,

I knew you would respond in that fashion and I did it on purpose, for you and Not Brooks and others so that I could establish a baseline and make my point. I also apologize, but let me finish:

My company had a full season ticket plan for over 25 years. It was paid out of the marketing budget and it worked well for a long time. The tickets rarely went unused by clients. I began to reduce the plan 5 years ago and now I am down to a 15 game plan and may dump that next year and put the marketing money somewhere else. Does that make me a bad fan?

Chris, over the last 12 years I have sat at Camden Yards for hundreds of games and watched the Orioles play a lot of bad baseball. It is not a novelty just to attend a game for me anymore. Why do we go to the games? We go to see our team win, don't we?

From a marketing standpoint, the Orioles know where the majority of the fans come from, and they are not from Hawaii or New Mexico. They are from within 75 miles of Camden Yards.

So here is my question to you. If you were local and could attend as many games as you wanted at Camden Yards, would you go night after night merely as a baseball fan, or would you adjust your attendance as local fans have as your expectations to see your team win are diminished year by year?

I think you are a great fan, Chris, and I aplogize if you were offended. But if the Orioles want attendance to stabilize and increase they need to start winning to draw the fans who are able to decide to go to the game on a whim. And they are losing those fans in droves.

the olny cult like following not brooks has is from the mo's for o's!

Anonymous, The idea that the the Sun or the warehouse would engage in playing with online polls and/or comments on a blog is borderline paranoid. If you have anything to offer up as proof I'm willing to be convinced. Until then, not so much.

Hahahaha.....waynes evil twis...your comment about that guy brooks was funny..and prob. true.

Yeah Flip, you tell him...

Yeah Flip, I agree

Yeah Flip! Hahaha...

Gil,
Would you agree that attendance was falling long before AM got to Baltimore?
Or is this a more recent phenomena?
How many people regularly post on here, 30? 20? (And to your earlier point, how many post the same crap under different names?) You think that's a large enough sample size to draw any kind of relationship between the pro-AM blog sentiment and pro-AM fan sentiment and relate THAT to attendance at Oriole games? I will agree that the pro-AM blog % is not representative of what's left of the Oriole fan base, and certainly not of the average fan.
I'll venture to guess that the average fan wants to win and could care less about the cost to do so.(To Wayne's point, I would think the average fan figures, it's not my money, why should I care?) I'll bet you lunch at Boog's that the average fan doesn't even know who AM is. In one of your posts, you said the average fan doesn't even know who the O's young players were!.
So no, the 'AM bloggers' are not in the majority. They're not on here, and not in the general fan population. Some just don't want to make him a fall guy for the 10 years before he got here.

Regards, Jim

If you want to read some crazy blogs and hear some crazy radio, Met fans are wondering if 150m is enough of a commitment by ownership to fund the debacle they have going up here.

Has anyone heard of the O's being interested in Chad Tracy at all? He's not a flashy guy, but a solid Major leaguer and plays 1st and 3rd. I was just wondering if there was any chatter on him coming to the O's...

Remaining FA 1st Basemen I would want the O's to sign (in Order)
1. LaRoche
2. Chad Tracy
3.Hank Blalock
4. Ryan Garko


By the way, for those of you who think that being an O's fan is torture, come join me on the New York Islanders wagon... It's a blast!

Everyone,

This blog has become an us versus them. The us being those disatisfied with what the organization is NOT reinvensting in the O's and them being those who are ok with the plan. I do believe everyone here wants a winner it just the process of getting there. After 13 years of futility, excuses diminishing payroll and flat out bad baseball, some of us have taken all we can take, and the reality whether everyone buys into it or not this organization has failed to provide the fan base something to root for and support. It's not all horrible, I believe AM has done the very best with what he's been given. Great drafts, key resignings, advanced our player development, but when it comes to spending money, that requires Angelo's approval, and whether a quality free agent or a quality player in the international market, the O's are never players because that requires money. So everytime you buy a ticket,T-shirt or hat, you are just feathering the nest of the ownership who is doing NOTHING for the fans.

I wish it were different and the truth hurts. Half the media MASN is owned by the owners, the other half doesn't want to report the facts as they appear and hold the ownership to accountability.

The truth will set you free!

All,

For everyone's consumption, I tend to follow the Major League Trade Rumors, a daily update ahttp://www.mlbtraderumors.com/baltimore_orioles/index.htmlbo


Right now they are looking at 5 General Managers each day and providing the data for each.

Check it out:

Gil,

Fundamental rule of Baseball: "If you build it, they will come." or "Winning cures all."

Obviously, right...

the discussion on these post is typically about HOW to win much more, and thus bringing in fans/money/passion back to the O's.

You think Beltre, Bay, or Holliday will achieve the result.

I think that it will make the team win more (how can it not), but not win at the level to bring fans back in droves--being competitive in the AL East.

it's all conjecture and speculation.

I want the money spent on players to help win as much as you do.

I was a very vocal nut-case for Tex, and as far as I'm concerned that is McPhails biggest mis-step.

What do the O's need, a middle of the line-up Corner Infielder that can help a group of youngsters develop, huh?

Had that gotten done, adding Bay or Holliday is a no brainier. And the O's are competitive.

You over pay for the first Marque name (Tex) and get the next guy (Bay) for market value. You don't pay Tex-type-money to Bay or Holliday and expect a Tex type player to take Holliday or Bay money.

Next year there are Tex type players.

--full disclosure: I receive not a single penny from the O's or affiliates from the money saved this year on players.

--not brooks.

If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would have let the guys who know baseball do their jobs. during the mid 90's.

--SOOOOOO true.

If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would have brought in a real GM after the Gillick/Wren era instead of making us suffer through Syd Thrift and Mike Flanagan.

--damn right.

If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would have actually spent some money on players instead of "stashing it away for next year" every year since 2004.

--eeeeehhhh. I don't think that's entirely fair. He certainly spent pretty freely and rashly for a while. Didn't work out the way it was expected to for a bunch of reasons, but money it was not. Talent evaluation and Front Office moves, you're dead right.


If Peter Angelos really wanted to win and be loved by fans, he would open up his wallet and let Andy spend some money on some real proven talent to complement the young players.

--I think it'll happen, and agree it should. This year the parts don't work. (Tex was the missed move...big time).

I'd love to believe that Peter Angelos wants to win and be loved by fans, but there's no evidence supporting your case. All the evidence shows that he's a greedy, meddling miser who's just in it for the money.

-lol, very true. However, I think the greedy, miser thing is a reaction to spending freely for a decade and loosing games and fans. Money can't fix everything...(cough cough, Dan Snyder)

Oh, and you're probably right about the Tigers overpaying Magglio Ordoñez. If you're only looking at Ordoñez's numbers, they don't seem to add up to his average annual salary. But the fact is that Ordoñez was a key factor in the Tigers' World Series run in 2006. What fan of a long suffering franchise wouldn't mind seeing his team overpay a guy by $3 or 4M if that overpayment meant that his team would have a realistic shot at making the playoffs?

--again, darn right. Maggs showed up for the whole year and ka-boom! but I'm okay with not giving a 30 year old players 5-6 year big deals to get a good year outta him.


just found this...about '10 O's. Good read....i guess.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AhoMhJi1vdhRG9pCwiw2HTURvLYF?slug=jp-orioles010810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Paulie, I suppose that was a decent read for anyone who hasn't paid attention to O's for the last few years (which is probably quite a few people), but I think that the author didn't put a whole lot of thought or research into it because I'm sure any regular poster here could've written a more insightful thought provoking piece than that.

All that aside, I guess most of us will still blush like schoolgirls when the national media says anything positive about the team.

Homespun Orioles a growing threat in AL East
By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports

Yet another warehouser, this time posing as a Yahoo! Sports writer.

He has to be a warehouser. Anyone who shows the slightest hint of being positive about the prospects and players with only a year or two of MLB experience HAS to be.

Anyone who "endorses" the Garrett Atkins and Mike Gonzalez signings, and the Kevin Millwood trade by not calling McPhail some type of derogatory name for signing/tading for Non Matt Holliday Scrubs HAS to be a warehouser.

jim66,

Every year the Orioles try to come up with a new marketing theme, as they should, in order to sell tickets. You have seen them, and I am wondering what they will try this year. They can't use the "come see the kids theme again", they tried that a couple years ago.

If you were Bill Stetka and Greg Bader, and others involved in selling the team, what would you do to try to get the fans attention in 2010?

I have thought about it and I can't come up with a theme anymore. It is going to be a tough sell, and it is important, because the Orioles need to stem the fan erosion, and since they are apparently not going to be even a .500 team in 2010, how do they do it, in the face of this economy?

You know Jim, lately I have had some really unnerving thoughts that Baltimore could lose this team. If the team doesn't start winning the fans won't come. If the fans won't come Angelos' son John just might sell it in a few years to an out of town group. He doesn't like baseball anyway and might just decide to cash out.

Gil,

To answer your earlier question, if I lived there, I'd go to as many games as I could afford, which would probably be close to 30 or 40 I guess.

And I believe that winning, not throwing money around, is what will bring people back to the yard. There was plenty of money thrown around at the beginning of last decade with nothing to show for it.

I don't believe there was a free agent this year worthy of the O's money. Bay got overpaid (enjoy his Citi-fied numbers Mets fans), and Holliday got waaayy overpaid (making many people question whether they will be able to afford Pujols). I thought the O's should have ponied up more in their offer for Tex last year, but in the end, do you really think he would have turned down the Yankees, since he always wanted to be Don Mattingly? The Nats offered him his $200 million and he just waited and waited for the Yankees. The whole thing was a joke. The Nats got used to drive the price up for the Yanks.

Anyway, I think this year we'll see a big improvement from the club, just based on the fact that we won't be throwing guys like Eaton, Simon and Hill out there three out of five games. Like I said about a week ago, we scored 4.5 runs a game last year without a big bat and our ERA was 5.15. If we can lower our ERA to under 4.5, which wouldn't be outstanding, but respectable, then we have a great shot at finishing the season at .500 or better. I think that alone, ending the losing streak, would make area fans take notice.

I would have loved to see the O's go after Chapman. He would have made up for the 2nd round pick we lose next draft. Hopefully instead, the O's can make a run at Matt Cain. He will be worth the money for sure. I wonder how much he is expected to sign for?

Chris -

Your last paragraph is spot on, and I do think that with solid seasons from each of the rookies and second year players, especially the starting pitchers, this team could surprise a lot of people.

I still think that Millwood is a great addition based solely upon his experience. That guy learned from Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Kevin Millwood and he's got 13 years of big league experience. He seems like the quiet kind of guy who will come in and just show the young players what it means to be a successful big league pitcher. And if someone steps out of line, he'll take them aside, quietly, without making a big deal out of it.

Gonzalez is still a great pick up as well. I may have been one of those guys who said that a losing team doesn't need a closer, but that was when I expected that Jim Johnson would step into the 9th inning without a hitch after Sherrill was traded. It worked for a week or so, but then it was clear that Johnson isn't right/ready for the role. Anyway, I think what Andy said in the Passan article is absolutely right: It's extremely disheartening for players and fans alike to wonder how the team is going to lose once the 7th or 8th inning rolls around. And since Gonzalez has a damn good resume and even more closing experience going into 2010 than Sherrill had going into 2009, I think he'll have a very good year.

And I still like Atkins enough, even just as a replacement over Mora. Atkins' put up a miserable BABIP last year, pulling the ball way too much and trying to hit too many home runs, probably because he was trying to pick up the slack after the Rockies traded Holliday. I think he'll easily rebound to hit .260 with 15-20 homers and he may actually surprise the heck out of everyone and hit .280 with 25+.

All that said, I'll continue to stand behind my argument that the team needs to dive in for a big free agent. Missing out on Mark Teixeira was a tough one, as there probably won't be a Tex-like player on the market for quite some time (unless Adrian Gonzalez isn't traded and extended). To the people who advocate signing Pujols or Mauer: Forget it. There's absolutely no way either of those guys are going to hit the FA market. They both love where they're playing and they're both the kind of guys who would give a hometown discount to their respective teams.

Anyways, I'm with you, Chris. This team really does have a chance to surprise the heck out of the American League in 2010. It's just that a whole heck of a lot of things have to go exactly right for that to happen. And I was hoping, and I still am hoping, that Andy would do a bit more to make those odds a little shorter.

Frank -

Are you suggesting trading for Cain? Because he's got one more arbitration year before he hits free agency in 2012.

Either way, I'd rather spend big on Josh Beckett, as he's already proven he can pitch well in a hitters park in the AL East.

Cain's got a 3.88 ERA away from his home pitcher's park, and I'd be a bit worried about his performance switching to a hitters park in the much tougher league.

Chris ole boy,

Who was responsible for Eaton, Simon, Hill, and so many others last year?

AM is known in Chicago for consistently bringing in guys like Eaton, Simon and Hill. He did it in year one, year three, year six, year eight......check it out.

He tries to develop players, surrounding them with scrapheap players that few others would want. It's what he does! Look it up!

So to keep comparing this crop with last years crop is continuing to compare AM's crap signings against AM's crap signings.

Do you get that....at all?

Try!

Kool Aid Drinkers rejoice,

Folks, do you consider being 25 back in the loss column winning or better?

"T"hat with solid seasons from each of the rookies and second year "players, especially the starting pitchers, this team could surprise a lot of people.

Ever heard of sophmore jinx or won year wonders. All prospects don't pan out, see Hayden Penn, Mike Young etc... while all our eggs are in the prospect nest (where maybe 25% best pan out) other teams in our division are buying real proven talent and were so far ahead of us to begin with.

There is good reefer going around on this site! Winning, .500 record, you've lied to yourself and yourselling a story only the warehouse would want you to buy!

Really, the only fact I'm reading is that any rotation without Hendrickson, Eaton and Hill is better than last year, on that point I agree, but how much better. Kevin Millwood is 35, he won 13 games last year with a team in the playoff hunt with a winning record. With all he learned from Maddux and Glavine, he should probably be our Pitching Coach. If Millwood is .500 this year and eats innings we will be very lucky. Matusz and Bergersen show great promise and might be .500. The rest of the group is a HUGE crap shoot.

The fact that our 1B & 3B potential is likely less than what we got last year, giving no protection in our batting order, staters will be pulled earlier due lack of runs, bullpen gets worn out again and we lose 90-100 games. And this is winning!

The truth will set you free

Keith -

Of course, I've heard of sophomore slumps and one year wonders.

That's why I said, "This team really does have a chance to surprise the heck out of the American League in 2010" and "I still am hoping, that Andy would do a bit more to make those odds a little shorter."

Obviously the odds of even a .500 record, which would surprise the heck out of the AL, are long. But I guess that's the difference between you and me. Sure, I think that Andy should be doing anything and everything possible to add a cleanup hitter and a top of the rotation ace. But I also believe that this team has a damn good collection of young talent that has already shown some big league promise. And while the team, as it stands, won't compete for the AL East title or even the Wild Card, it could still come together very quickly and at least put up a winning record.

Keith Rowe

What a difference half a day makes. Last night in your 11:03 pm post it was, "I do believe everyone here wants a winner it just the process of getting there." Now everyone who disagrees with you is back to being a kool aid drinker.

See not brooks,

Here you were, just a few days ago 'screaming' for AM to sign Holiday. You correctly felt that surrounding the young talent with proven producers was the right way to go.

Now though, not only do you give AM a complete PASS for passing yet again, you talk about this years crop as is surprising 'the heck' out of the rest of the AL means anything.

Surprising anyone else doesn't mean a damn thing not brooks. At the end of the day, do you think they'll care if the O's win 75 instead of 64 games?

PEOPLE...... Winning 75 games in baseball is pathetic, it's ugly, it's terrible........ it's LOSING!

Stop hyping yourselves and stop trying to jack everyone else off into thinking there can be good losing.

See AM this organization for exactly what they are.......... Be honest with yourselves and others for ONCE in your lives.

Have some pride!

Not Brooks,

I guess I am somewhere between bob c., and Wayne, which is a hard place to get. Unlike Wayne, who still goes to every game apparently to torture himself, I have admitted that the losing wore me down and I began reducing my full season plan for 5 years now down to 15 games. Incidentally, anybody who still has a full season ticket plan should be given a lifetime fan aeard in my opinion.

I am really concerned about the attendance because I am not sure what John Angelos would do with the team when and if his father passes away.

That's why I think the Orioles somehow need to put a better product on the field as soon as they can to start bringing the fans back.

Wayne is right about John Angelos and the fact that he could care less about the team right now. But he could start caring if he had a chance to cash out.

Gil,
You are correct about John Angelos. The business side of the organization is a train wreck. Every person with creditbility and experience in baseball marketing was forced out or left the Orioles years ago. John Angelos will sell the team when his father passes away. He has a guaranteed sale price from MLB and he would rather open restuarants and hang out at martini bars.

AS for his father, you can see he will invest money when he knows he will get immediate returns. That's why he doesn't spend on the Orioles. He makes money under the present situation, so why spend $20M a year more when he can only gain $5M in increased revenue from attendance.

He was prepared to bid on slots and pulled back when it deteremined to not be a good investment. In other words, he had the money and a bid would have been in the $75M range.

Any realistic Orioles fan has to realize that nothing will change until the ownership does.

Good to see you're still as smug and condescending as ever wayne.

When you read what you write do you see how it's unecessarily offensive and abrasive? Insinuating someone lacks intelligence is just the same as calling them names.

Do you get that...at all?

Please try wayne. Please try and get that....at all.

I agree with you Gil that this winter was the time to start plugging some holes, but no one ever answered me if Matt Holliday is truly a franchise player? For the money he got, that'd make him the franchise player on this team and I just don't see him being the cornerstone. He's more of a 3/5 than a 4 and we need a legit 4.

I'm just at a loss as to what someone's supposed to do when the best option at a legit top tier #4 hitter (A. Gonzalez) is being held ransom for like a package of Wieters, Tillman Matusz, etc.? It's like playing Monopoly with the guy who has Park Place when you get Boardwalk, but he wants all you're other propeties in return. Well, he'll leave you with Baltic Ave. In the end you get what you want, but probably still lose because you gave up too much.

I'm with what not brooks just said at 1:11. We're talking about breaking the losing record streak here, not breaking the single season wins record.

With Keith's response, I don't see how you can dispute a hypothetical positive with a hypothetical negative, but be so certain yours is right and someone else's is wrong. You mention guys like Maddux, but he must have done alright after his first year. Smoltz must have had a decent early career. They weren't born 30 and filling diapers with Cy Young awards. They came from the minors just like everyone else. Some were always expected to do well and some weren't. If it was an exact science, they could just declare winners to every game now and give everyone the summer off.

James,

Sure, I get it!

Here's what else I get..... when it comes to hypotheticals and the Orioles, you can 100% go with the hypotheticals that lean towards losing.

Because you see, that's what the Orioles will do again this year. AND, that's what the Orioles will do again next year...... AND..

Well, you see where I'm going with this, right?

Because what you have here James, is 'talk, talk, talk, talk', followed by consistent losing. Thus, the positive talkers 'hypothetical's NEVER have a leg to stand on. Why? Because the positive hypotheticals NEVER come true, while the negative hypotheticals ALWAYS come true.

You do see that, right?

James C.,

It's always tough to fill a need, especially when you probably have to overpay for a player that may not quite be worth it. But filling the need was the prime directive for the Orioles this winter. Everybody knows that Holliday would not have been worth the money. Nor Bay. Nor Beltre. I don't think Holliday is worth the money.

But he sure would look in the four hole, and if he hit 35 home runs and drove in 100, I could get over the money hang up pretty quickly, which is what Andy Macphail and some of the fans need to do too.

It was the right time to do it, and the right place to do it. And, in my opinion, Macphail has failed miserably so far to give the team a chance to end the losing in 2010. He is still locked in to his plodding, 1960's rebuilding mode. As I continue to say, I give Macphail an A+ in prospect aquisition and player development but a big fat F for getting the team in a positon to win in 2010, which, in my opinion, he could have, and should have done.

I, for one, don't even want to start thinking about 2011. Pitchers and catchers report in 6 weeks and I start to get excited this time of year, even in the dead of winter, Baseball gives us the hope that Spring can't be far away. And I don't want to go into this spring, with 162 games to play, knowing that our team has little chance to comptete, and is an odds on favorite by the bookies to finish last again. I just can't deal with that James. Not in the dead of winter when pitchers and catchers will report in 6 weeks.

Not Brooks,

We will have to agree to disagree, I don't think this team has a chance to win more than 70 games tops. Not because they aren't getting better, the rest of the division has gotten better.

Flip, I have not flopped, while we can disagree on the the philosophy, I still think anyone who buys into all the crap put out by the Warehouse and the media is in the bag and drinking Kool Aid, the two thoughts are NOT mutually exclusive. There are us realists and you eternal gullible and naive optimists. It's actually very simple.

The truth will set you free!

Gil,

You are spot on! AM isn't the problem, just the mouthpiece. He doesn't sign the checks or make the budget and the source of finances is the problem here. Your right in that none of the primo players were probably worth what they got, but where were we on Jason Marquis this year, Mark Tex last year (we had the 4th highest bid for the best free agent in a generation) looking for that hometown discount, how about Adam Dunn. We didn't just get the need for a power bat, we've needed one since the day AM arrived! I hate to bust your bubble, but 2011 won't be any better. Free Agents just don't decide I want to play in Baltimore because the NOW want to win. Agents and players are much smarter than that, If winning is the issue it's tiered approach and the O's sit right between the Pirates and the Royals. This is going to take years to recover from and if it doesn't start now, it will be that much longer to get out of this losing spiral!

The truth will set you free

james C,

Huh, ever heard of we can learn from history? It's not a new concept trust me. It's not being negative, it's being realistic with 13 years of proof. Any you have what on your side? Your totally missing the points the realists on this board are posting, Do you think the Rays, Jays, Red Sox and Yanks are shaking in their boots over our Free Agent acquisitions? The good got better and O's went cheap and inferior. HELLO! they got Tiger Woods and we got Joe Baggashit! Is this hard to comprehend? Our players are gonna get better, so will theirs. Bucholtz, Jaba, Ellsworth everyone is developing. What have we done to improve our line up and pitching staff? Is Atkins and Aubrey/Scott better than Mora and Huff, I don't think so! Our rotation should be marginally better without EATON, hendrickson and Hill, but Millwood is 35 and won 13 games on a winning team, he would be a 4 or 5 on the Sox or Yanks and he didn't want to come to Baltimore. The youth will improve, but look at Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine and john Smoltz rookie years, they were not .500.

The truth will set you free

wayne,

I'm not saying the O's are set to be the next Rays, but I guarantee there were zero people in Tampa 2008 who weren't blood relatives of someone in the organization that thought they'd be winners like they were. So taking the negative is never 100%. I didn't even have to go back very far.

Keith,

Who did you tremble about that the Rays signed before 2008? How about Colorado? They had young talent fused with role players. It just "clicked" and what were hypothetically two junkers ended up in the World Series.

I am looking at Maddux's and Smoltz's rookie year and I find it all proving my point. Greg Maddux was 2-4 in 86 (but didn't lose rookie status until 87) and went 6-14 in 87. John Smoltz went 2-7 in his rookie year of 88. Smoltz went to 12-11 in 89 and on a tear of 15+ wins/year after that. Maddux did him a few better going 18-8 in 88. So they weren't even average their rookie years, but the turnaround was dramatic and quick. Smoltz picked up 10 wins and Maddux picked up 12. 22 wins from 2 guys put together in one year.

Look at the Mets and now Tigers. Spending big money in stupid places means losing big and starting over. Heck look at the 1998 Orioles and you want to rewind the clock to just buying guys cause they're there? I'll start up Mercedes dealership with only one Buick on the lot (that comes with zero warranty or guarantee) at a marked up even for a Mercedes price and setup shop near you guys.

"the truth will set your free" (as if by claiming an opinion is truth, it makes it so.) i am a billionaire. (mine is better).

RE: "no players will come to the O's, cause they want to win." Offer the most money, get the player. Agents, and the MLBPA will put Immense pressure on players to take the top dollars. Sometimes it's worth over paying. Sometimes it's necessary.

RE: "the O's have sucked and been mismanaged in the past, thus they will be in the future." The past is written...the future is not. Drawing comparisons between then and now is not a salient position.

RE: "we need a vet to teach the kids" Brian Roberts is one heck of a vet to learn from, and I don't think Bay or Holliday or Beltre have enough of the "knows how to win" quotient to make those finical investments.

RE: franchise moving. I dunno, while Possible, I find it hard to imagine. there are other teams in MLB more likely to be moved, i think. I know the Colts thing is still very touchy but that's not an omen. I think the harbinger of woo is the Nat's: i live in MoCo and it's about 50-50 Nat's vs. O's. That could mean that the fan base could already forever be lost and affect the packed houses in Camden. In stores here (30 minutes from Camden) there is hardly any O's stuff since MLB decrees that this is Nat's area. Washington Post, the local here, doesn't cover the O's and they are the second story on local sports to the Nats. Rather than viewing that an indicator to "get someone now" to generate attention, I'd rather get the "right guy" and generate the same/More attention.

Keith--
"There are us realists and you eternal gullible and naive optimists. It's actually very simple."

no I'm a realist (I call it first!) and your a grumpy pessimistic kill-joy. and you're right, it is that simple.

wayne--
"Have some pride!"

what are you trying to convince me of? not to be an O's fan, cause you'll never ever be capable of that. it's called pride...

Frank Rizzo--

agree with Champman, it would have been interesting, but risk-reward seems tilted toward the negative....imho. cain would be interesting add...and in next years market I'd guess 4 years 45-60 mil is an O's type offer; it's low, but the market is rich, teams aren't, he's not a top guy in the crop. "value"?

James C.--
I think everyone agrees with you and not brooks...acquiring additional talent is needed. seems the topic is "who" to acquire. personally, I don't think Holliday is a "franchise" player....i think he's exactly the guy the Cards bought; a #2 guy. Leading me to believe that the market next year, when there are #1 guys available, is a better investment of the considerable but non-infinite, use of dollars.

not brooks--
100% agree with "possible" upside of young core. there are amazing tales in Baseball of young teams putting together amazing seasons (Marlins, Rays). additionally, part of AM design is a large group of young, highly-talented, "character", guys having a bond...i think part of the FO decision making figures into that. slim %, but relevant.

Gil--
agree with sentiment about love of season and looking forward to Baseball (can you beat loving a sport that "plays" more than it's "off"??). As far as the need to acquire a bat, I agree. But it's like be a run or two down in 3rd, while you might need a 2 run homer, it's not the only way, nor the only time. And as far as marketing goes, why not market the truth...young guys (yes like last year) that have the same potential and more acclaim. I don't need to be marketed "pennant winning team", when it's not true and thus dismay and alienate more of the already-so fans.


observation: how lucky are the O's? in a down local market and a ravaged fan base, the Organization is given a deal (MASN) that gives them a huge cash infusion to resuscitate the fledgling organization. furthering this wealth is the off loading of bad contracts. How teams are given such immense and life saving opportunities? I just don't get the pessimism and vitriol at times by the nay-sayers.

The Ray?

Bad example!

When their ownership changed, their mindset changed completely.

Tragic though, that the baltimore orioles even have to look at the Rays for guidance.

Sad!

James C
re: 6:43 post.

tip of the hat, sir. tip of the hat.

James C.,

I don't think that getting one big bat this off season would mean losing big and starting over, or rewinding the clock and just buying guys just because they are there. I didn't advocate that Macphail should go on a spending spree. There are some promising parts in place.

All I am saying is that the team needed the big right handed bat and they did not get it. They could have. It would not have broken the bank, and it would have given the team a better chance to stop the losing.

What I have said is that it should not be a zero sum game. Rebuild but be flexible. Add what you need when you need it. And we needed the right handed bat. I don't care what it should have cost to add that player, it is irrelevant. Matt Holliday would have put more butts in the seats more often incuding mine.

"Now though, not only do you give AM a complete PASS for passing yet again, you talk about this years crop as is surprising 'the heck' out of the rest of the AL means anything."

Wayne -

Perhaps you should have reread my comments before you click "post".

Read what I said again:

"I think that Andy should be doing anything and everything possible to add a cleanup hitter and a top of the rotation ace."

How is that giving Andy any sort of "pass"?

"Surprising anyone else doesn't mean a damn thing not brooks. At the end of the day, do you think they'll care if the O's win 75 instead of 64 games?"

I didn't just say that the O's might surprise some league. I said that they might surprise the league and put up a .500 record. Are you trying to tell me that a .500 record "wouldn't mean a damn thing" to this team and its fans?

Here's the difference between you and I, wayne:

I believe that something drastic needs to happen to this team. But I can also see that this team has a damn good core of young players who could put together a 2008 Rays or 2007 Rockies-esque season if a big handful of things go right.

You believe that something drastic needs to happen to this team and you seem to let your hatred of everything Orioles block you from seeing the young talent that is clearly there.

To you, wayne, and to all of you who keep saying there's absolutely no chance the O's will win more than 75 games in 2010: Wouldn't have said the same thing about the Rays in January of '08? And the Rockies in January of '07? And the Tigers in January of '06?

Have a little hope, my friends. Sure, there a ton of things that need to be changed. But this team, as it stands, could surprise us. And that wouldn't be so bad, would it?

Paulie,

That last post of yours was a stream of consciousness and you lost me.

Don't you think that Macphail should have at least tried to sign a right handed power hitter this offseason?

Please keep your response to 100 words or less because I am watching the playoffs and drinking beer.

paulie,

Seriously dude, you need a life!

not brooks,

No, I don't think the O's are anywhere near the Rays going into 08'. Not even close.

No, no one picked them to go as far as they did, but many said they'd be a winning team in 08'. They were far more advanced than the O's are going into 2010'.

You're smart..... and you know that!

Yes, this team has some talent. I've NEVER argued that! Overall however, it remains a terrible team, headed towards another ugly season.

Keith,

Of course you have the truth on your side. And it'll stay that way until someone proves you wrong.

Living in FLA, i can tell you that '08 was expected to be a breakout year for the Rays. Win the division? Nope, but you could see something happening. Made me sick because the Os rallying cry of 'thank God for the Rays' was about to become obsolete. And wayne, you crack me up. "HAVE SOME PRIDE!" Dude, you still go to the games! You want to hurt the Angelos'? hit em in the wallet. I hardly think posting on a blog is gonna get them in a lather. I know its a different era and all, but what was the Os rotation heading into '89?

gil

yes the O's need a right handed bat. disagree about degree/options presented.

agree that winning adds butts in seats, disagree that Matt Holliday equals meaningful increase in either wins or butts.

wayne

i know u don't wanna compare lifes nor letters typed on the blog.

that fact you do only reinforces your poor reasoning ability and undermines your creditability.

cush,

I believe that's what I just said......about the 08' Rays.

paulie,

have some pride dude..... It's all and only about winning. Nothing less matters. Nothing!

Orioles appear out of Free Agent derby

2010 MLB PAYROLL:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 - ORIOLES, 27, 28, 29, 30.

Go ahead warehousers... spin away!

wayne--

the team as constructed will/ought-too win more than last year.

adding a "part" like Bay is a minimal increase in attendance and Wins.

it is about winning.

but baseball is like an onion. there are layers.

wayne-
While addressing cush's post, you left the part directly calling your convenient double standard out (AS USUAL). I'll repost it for you:

And wayne, you crack me up. "HAVE SOME PRIDE!" Dude, you still go to the games! You want to hurt the Angelos'? hit em in the wallet. I hardly think posting on a blog is gonna get them in a lather.

Posted by: cush | January 9, 2010 9:01 PM

Where's YOUR pride? If this front office is just in it for the money, aren't you demonstrating the lack of pride you constantly spout about by paying for season tickets? You're worse than the average optimist by doing that. You're what dopeheads in recovery call an enabler.

You cry on here about the blind optimist prideless warehousers over and over. Yet you still fork your money over to Greedy Petey. Are you even aware that you contradict yourself by doing so? By your post logic, YOU are the problem.

If you hate the direction of the club so much, don't go to the games. Don't buy your season tickets. Maybe then you'll have a leg to stand on.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 9, 2010 9:53 PM

Posted by Guru76...
Throw some insults at me instead of logic, wayne, as you do with every other post you put up.

Okay Vlad is gone.... Can the O's sign a cleanup hitter before they are all gone?? Why do they always wait so damn long?

Gil,

With such lousy football games, I had the decision to join you in drinking beer or entertain myself with the LOL naive and gullable eternal optimists posting on this blog.

So with that Paulie, you maybe the funniest, yet MOST naive and MOST gullable of them all. You have 13 years of futility and you think there is something to optimistic about. You can't even make an argument let alone win one! And you darn sure don't know the difference in realism and being a naysayer. So my fellow blogger, I would call you my friend, but I'd be lying, I don't have friends that gullable, enjoy the 14th consecutive losing season along with your other naive and gullable Kool Aid drinkers. There is always next year, ah.....that's been used the last 13 seasons. There is no value in the free agent pool this year, again heard that before. They don't want to play in Balmore, thats a revelation.

Enjoy the year, if 85+ losses makes you happy I think you will enjoy yourself.

Only the truth will set you free

All,

Just for your information:
The O's are in the midst of a 13 year consecutive losing streak. The fairy god mother is fake. This isn't even an argument because like a rivalry, both teams need to be competitive, and for all the Kool Aid drinking optimist you have no positive data on your side, merely wishful thinking. Follow the $$ and you find championships (See yankees, Red Sox and Angels). The O's won't even spend in the 50 percentile of teams we are in the bottom 10%.

The statistical moron who questioned the stats of Maddux, Glavin and Smoltz and then goes on to post the less than .500 record makes the point against himself. This isn't an argument, the factual data is public knowledge, we all know it, you can chose to be a realist or you can be foolish!

The truth will set you free

There would have been nothing wrong with Vlad playing DH for the Orioles. He is broken but is still a hell of a hitter and would have done some damage at OPACY...

Who are the Orioles waiting to sign to bat cleanup?

Wow! This is hilarious… The Texas Rangers are having big time financial problems and an owner that’s trying to sell the team but they still are signing better names than the Orioles LOL!

John,

I hear were holding out for Chico Escuela, he says "Basabol, been berry berry good to me"!

Baltimore Orioles Salaries - 2009

1. Kevin Millwood 12,868,892
2. Brian Roberts 8,000,000
3. Garrett Atkins 7,050,000
4. Koji Uehara 5,000,000
5. Mike Gonzalez 3,450,000
6. Nick Markakis 3,350,000
7. Ty Wigginton 2,500,000
8 a. Cesar Izturis 2,400,000
8 b. Luke Scott 2,400,000
10. Jeremy Guthrie 650,000
11. Adam Jones 435,000
12. Cla Meredith 430,900
13. Jim Johnson 420,000
14 a. Dennis Sarfate 410,000
14 b. Matt Albers 410,000
14 c. Felix Pie 410,000
17. Jason Berken 400,000
18 a. Robert Andino 400,000
18 b. Matt Wieters 400,000
18 c. Armando Gabino 400,000
18 d. David Hernandez 400,000
18 e. Chorye Spoone 400,000
18 f. Wilfrido Perez 400,000
18 g. Troy Patton 400,000
18 h. Nolan Reimold 400,000
18 i. Alberto Castillo 400,000
18 j. Brad Bergesen 400,000
18 k. Lou Montanez 400,000
18 l. Kam Mickolio 400,000
Total Team Salary: 61,885,566

Guerrero signed a 1 year deal for 5 million. Why didnt the Orioles even try to grab him? They need to get someone to fill the void at DH until they know if Wieters can pull it off.

222 bagga,

I've not advocated them sign anyone in particular, I just want them to pull the trigger and get some real talent on the field. Vladdy like about 20 others would be a tremendous improvement to our current batting order. The issue is they aren't spending money and the money they spend is chump change.

Also, Tex is paying a portion of the Millwood salary!

Yeah thats funny about Millwood..The Orioles would never have that much money on their payroll for any player hahah something had to be up lol

Garrett Atkins 7,050,000
Koji Uehara 5,000,000
Ty Wigginton 2,500,000

You get what you pay for!

paulie,

That's it.... the onion layer rap? come on bro, that's as weak as I've seen.

As for Anonymous.... Listen, as I've said before, I buy my tickets because I like being around friends and I love baseball. Not oriole baseball, but baseball.

Usually, I enjoy watching other teams that come who play the game the right way.

You see, if I let my seats go, angelos wins. Because they're great seats, if available, they'll just go to someone his sons have on a personal list.

So i'll just hold onto them, hoping that he'll eventually sell the team. If I don't get to enjoy such a day, my family will.

So while it's likely tough for you to grasp, it really is quite simple.

lots of uproar over a foreign pitcher who probably gets worked harder than Walter Johnson and Cy Young combined. I think the O's should jump all over this guy. He could be the next Livan Hernandez, Jose Contreras, Oswaldo Fernandez, El Duque, or the kid a year or so ago that suddenly could only throw 84 mph.

you are all criminally insane. did I catch "castrate" somewhere in there?

I wish the Orioles had a pitcher as good as El Duque coming into this season... All we got is Millwood, the lost mechanics and some rookies..

Just a reminder Oriole fans you cant rip players that are better than ones on the Orioles. All I hear on this blog is that the Orioles should stay away from so and so or you dont want this FA cause he could be like this person. The fact is we need players even ones that were marginally successful on other teams. Marginally successful is much better than what the Orioles have seen latey..

Hey Sham

Who was that kid that could only throw 84? Tillman? Matuz??

The most hilarious thing about the pitching staff this season is that the Orioles claim Matuz is the best pitcher we have in the organization. With all respect to the kid that is pathetic. Matuz would be at AAA on any other team because most major league teams especially in the AL East have good major league pitchers and can at least start guys like that in the pen like the sox are doing with Daniel Bard.

Keith,

I made my point, not disproved it. My point was that our rookies could be on the same progression as Maddux and Smoltz. That progression could be a combined gain of 22 wins in one year. 22 win increase with pitchers already on the roster.

Can't talk your way out of what happened in Colorado or Tampa yet can you? Don't worry, Pete's focused on football for a while so you can think on it for the weekend. I'll wait on their major aquisitions.

Oh and name calling is back in vogue I see.

Gil,

I don't think a FA would have restarted things, but the names the Padres wanted for A. Gonzalez would have stripped out some major pieces.

Vladimir Guerrero?

Seriously?

Did I just travel back in time?

Vlad's done. His body is a wreck and it can't handle that crazy swing anymore. Those fastballs at his eyes and his ankles that he used to hit 450 feet? They're whiffs these days.

Vlad hit 15 home runs and put up a .460 slugging percentage in 2009. And all of his production came in a single month. He hit 9 of his home runs in August, putting up a .625 slugging percentage.

Come on, Keith. Make up your mind here. You talk about how the O's are garbage because they sign the mediocrity of the free agent pool, but now you're saying you wanted Andy to sign a 35-year-old DH with knee and back problems who's coming off the worst year of his life?

Don -

Daniel Bard is a reliever. Has been since he got destroyed as a starter in A-ball (7.08 ERA in 22 starts). That's why he's in the pen.

Not even going to respond to your comments about Matusz, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Not Brooks,

Who do you suggest then for DH? Even with Vlads issues he will put up better numbers than Luke Scott this season.

Vladimir Guerrero #27 RF

2009 Season Stats
SPLITS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Season 100 383 59 113 16 1 15 50 19 56 2 1 .295 .334 .460 .794
Career 1850 7000 1185 2249 420 44 407 1318 685 869 175 87 .321 .386 .568 .954

YEP! Orioles dont need that even for 1 season!

All I’m saying on Matusz man is that I am worried that we don’t have anything really solid in our starting rotation. Nobody really knows what’s going to happen and the Orioles don’t have a great track record for developing great young pitchers… Oh well the record will speak for itself..

PS Brooks dont get picky on 295 hitters bro

Vlad with a broken neck is better than ANY oriole hitter

John -

Streaky Scott hit 25 homers and put up a better slugging percentage than Vlad last year. Vlad might top Scott in 2010, but unless Scott takes a huge hit in production and Vlad suddenly gets healthier, I don't think that's going to happen.

Vlad's just a name at this point. At this point, all he's going to do is continue to decline quickly. Why waste $5M+ on a quickly declining name?

My suggestion for DH? Carlos Delgado. Sure, he's even older than Vlad and he's coming off hip surgery. But if he's healthy he'll hit 30 homers without any problem at all.

Don -

I'm not getting picky.

I'm calling Vlad for what he is. An old guy with a broken body who's only going to get worse. And who cares if he hit .295? He only hit 15 home runs. Why should the O's sign a DH who might hit 15 home runs when we already have a DH who can hit 20+?

LOL to me Delgado and Vlad are totally = and both a better option than Scotty.

Vlad at 5m for one year should mean delgado for 5m for one year and an Os option for a 2nd at 9m. He's gotta pass the toughest physical in the majors first...if he does and he stays healthy...115 rbis.

james C,

If you had a brain or knew anything about baseball you would think it would come thru on at least one of your posts, NOT! Then again maybe it's your inability to read and comprehend.

First, the stats about the Braves exceptional rotation was proving the point that until their 2nd full season, .500 winning record isn't likely, it could happen, Mark Fiderich did it but it doesn't happen often. As far as the silly analogy to the Rockies and Rays, the Rockies don't play the Yanks and Sox 30+ times and the Rays spent 8 years developing a much better corp group of hitters with power than the O's and how long did these runs last?????

Guy don't come to gun fight with a knife, bring some facts that mean something or argue with some of you Kool Aid drinking, naive and gullable types and enjoy that 85+ loss season!

Only the truth will set you free

Not Brooks,
"Come on, Keith. Make up your mind here. You talk about how the O's are garbage because they sign the mediocrity" The only players the last two years that I have mentioned by the name the O's should sign: Tex, Adam Dunn, Jason Marquis. That's not to say over the last two years not less than 40 available free agents would improve the Orioles.

What mind do you want me to make up. Were looking for a righthanded bat to DH, 3B or 1B. At this juncture who is left? From a purely business perspective (using the O's model) paying Vlad $5M per when Luke Scott makes half that it was never going to happen. No mind to make up here, the Warehouse told us what they wanted, the wait and see and penchant for being cheap is the only thing keep the O's from improving their lineup!

The truth will set you free.


I forget who the Cuban was... he didn't sign after trying out, he only hit low 80's on the radar gun. Agent tried to get him a ton of money and he stunk up his try out. Cant find anything on google, everything that comes up is about Chapman.

Keith, Paulie, James C., Not Brooks, Wayne, Shamrock and the rest of our panel of experts:

Sorry I didn't jump back in last night but the State store had buy one get one free day on all cases. I just woke up on the floor next to the dog. Can somebody tell me how the Dallas/Philly game ended?

It's all a moot point because Macphail hasn't signed a name FA in three years.

Can anyone define what he means when he says he will do so when the time is "apprpropriate?" Is he defining that time frame in weeks, months, years, or decades?

RAVENS,

As was the case last Sunday, the Orioles don't deserve mention on the same day the Ravens once again play in a meaningful game.

While the Ravens organization display everything good about sports in Baltimore they also remind us of how far the orioles have fallen.

If you love losing (and many of you obviously do), think Orioles today. If you love winning however, forget about the pathetic losers in the warehousers and enjoy the Ravens.....

i guess the cash-strapped rangers want to make sure that they sign guys who can break down this yr. Get rid of Millwood and his 30+ starts (+ 3m bucks), and sign Harden, then after deciding that Lowell wasn't broken enough, go get Vlad.

And what is the point of posting the player salaries? I could look it up.

not brooks

Keith had an ever so brief moment of lucidity when he said in his 7:34am post, "What mind do you want me to make up." Indeed.

"If you had a brain or knew anything about baseball you would think it would come thru on at least one of your posts, NOT! Then again maybe it's your inability to read and comprehend."

Wow, Keith.

Takes a real man to use his real name on the internet and verbally abuse someone just because that someone has a differing opinion.

Seriously guys. I know none of us actually know each other, but let's try to keep the baseless personal attacks to a minimum. Save that anger for when things get bad enough that we have to march on Eutaw Street.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I have to agree here. We're talking about a baseball team, not the health care legislation, so there's no reason to treat each other with disrespect...unless, of course, you disagree with me.

not brooks

You've said recently that the Orioles have a chance to be a winner in 2010. Now you say, "Save that anger for when things get bad enough that we have to march on Eutaw Street."

With sincere respect, those two points are so divergant that its hard to imagine one holding them simultaneously.

Keith,

I'm sorry to have to pull a wayne here and try to simplify things:

You say the Orioles are doomed because they're relying on young talent and not signing big names. Agreed?

I gave two examples that disprove your theory quite handily. The Rays should have spent once they won and that was their downfall last year and most likely this year, but you can't deny that youth did win. Not just above .500, but almost 100 games. We agree that's winning still right?

I even went on to disprove your theory that all young pitching turns out like Hayden Penn or Cabrera. I did so with facts. By the way, you in your infinite wisdom seem to think Maddux was on the Braves his first three seasons in your last rant on me. This could be my lack of baseball knowledge...oh wait, no it's from actually knowing what I'm talking about. He was on the Cubs until 1992.

Point being my lack of baseball knowledge trumped your know-it-all self rightgeousness with facts as you requested and you just need to accept it.

With truth being served, consider yourself "set free."

mlbtraderumors.com posted that Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports is saying Chapman is signing a $30 million deal with a National League team.

While I'm hesitant to believe that it is true, there is only 1 team that I could think of that would do something that crazy. It's gotta be Omar, right?

James C

Good God man. Bringing facts and logic to an argument. Is there no level to which you won't stoop. Seriously though, well said.


R. I. P.

Baltimore Orioles "Big Bat"

Offseason 2009-2010

Pete the enabler,

Nice that you could show up on your blog! Funny when the warehouse enabler (that be you) isn't here it's almost like a legitimate blog versus the other MASN, Oriole owned effort. I always thought reporters were like referees, call it as they see them, but here it seems there more like that NBA official who spent some time socializing with the other inmates.

As far as opinions go, I believe the last 13 or last 3 however you chose to examine them, support my position much more than the Kool Aid drinkers.

But hey Pete, the truth will set you free too!

How is that uc FOOTBALL looking, lose the coach and probation quickly following!

Y'all,

Beyond the truth setting you free, I will be the first to remind you, I told you so, ALL YEAR LONG.

Just like last year when I suggested the O's sign better starting pitching and they bring home Simon, Eaton, Hill and Hendrickson and I was talking names like Mike Hampton and a host of proven starter who could have actually helped this team and all signed for less than $2.0M. But hey I told you so! Enjoy another season in cellar, if anything you have said that makes sense, the people on this blog are worth talking real substantive baseball issues, just theoretical issues avoiding any accountability of a 14 consecutive losing season.

Enjoy

Eric Clapton Unplugged. Great stuff.

Keith Unmedicated. Not so much.

i don't see anything wrong with Pete sitting back and watching you talk amongst yourselves..
What could he possibly add to anything you've said 213 times already?

Keith, not being mean or anything, but I have to say that you seem like about 7 different people within the space of one blog entry.

i know it's not the time or place.

and i'm not trying to stir up any more hate.

but.


how 'bout dem Cowboys! (still have Mad love for the Ravens though!)


O's:

granted there was a need (nay-sayers there is time still yet) for a RH Bat.

however...

there are enough other options available via trades, prospect players, future free agency, and life-times of current roaster to make any conclusions about success or failure of any "plan".

while some see the lack of signings as "mis-steps", I am only further impressed with Andy.

granted some of the missed options would have won games. some games. not significant. not contender. thus not significant fans.

Vlad might have been a decent risk...considering he'd be injured enough that plenty of prospects could get some time. but didn't he cost a pick? (not sure)...than kinda a "blah" move.

like 4 different posters use the name not brooks thats why is rants are all over the place..

Keith,

Wow, you sure told us last year about Mike Hampton. Zinggggg. Sure put us in our place.

7-10 ERA 5.33 and just 112 IP

We should have hopped on that bandwagon. You're right.

I am so sick of the big market Cincinnati Reds buying championships!

The Orioles need a salary cap to compete against these juggernauts like Cincinnati, Minnesota etc LOL

Peter Angelos is a human salary cap.

U PPL R IDIOTS (ppl who think we have no future) if uve read anything this guy chapman has little to no control also why would we spend money on a pitcher when we already have like 5 other pitching porspects itd just be a worthless signing we do spend money but on the right things garrett atkins is 30 years old not really a has ben gonzalez is a top of the line relief pitcher not has ben we were interested in holliday but i dont want to go after somebody who produces as much as markakis at twice the price last year we went after texitera does anybody think we can outspend the yankees were making all the right moves for this organization and we r trying what was in free agency this time just wasnt what we needed

That’s it! The answer is clear to help balance baseball! Make Peter Angelos the commish and he will just take everyone’s money! All the teams will then have equally bad oriole like rosters. Then all high dollar players will move to Japan. It’s the American way!

Peter Angelos should not be unleashed on the rest of the world! Keep him stealing Marylands money!

IF YOU SPEND A DOLLAR ANYWHERE IN MARYLAND PETER ANGELOS TAKES 35 CENTS OF IT!!

Peter Angelos is so cheap he makes his son’s grow out their hair to sell to wig makers.

I think the Oriole part of the blog has been rendered so senseless that Pete has decided he no longer needs to pay attention, and with good reason.
It's nothing more than one giant PA bitchfest.Yep, that's gonna get you far.

Clueless222, Chapman leading the Reds to a championship anytime soon? Get a grip.

Hmmm, should I post this under one of my 13 alter-egos?


Sure Jim I would love to hear from them!

Paulie,

You are making a fool of yourself the way you gush over the Orioles. It's on thing to be optimistic, it's another to shill like teenage girl. Have some self respect

Thank god the giants just signed Huff! It seems like thats who the Orioles were really waiting this whole time! Now MacFail will be forced to go and get someone at 1st!!

Wayne/Pete,

I love your post Wayne. Don't allow the dream lovers to quiet your disdain.

Hey Pete, can you ever respond to negative post without being upset? And by the way, I don't chose to look at post by people like Wayne and Gil as negative. Instead, I see them as speaking the obvious. And, I see them as representing what most people already think.

Yoder -

Unfortunately, MacPhail will never be "forced" to do anything.

He could easily leave first base to Aubrey and Wigginton and say that he doesn't want to block Brandon Snyder. Of course, Brandon Snyder isn't the sort of prospect that you worry about blocking. Matt Weiters was one of those guys. Brian Matusz was one of those guys. Josh Bell might be one of those guys. Brandon Snyder isn't.

Anyway, there are two solid first base options left on the market (Delgado, LaRoche) and, aside from the O's, the Mets are probably the only other team in the market for a first baseman.

This is a moment of truth for Andy and O's fans. Will he bring in a veteran with 25+ homer pop who could provide a veteran presence in the middle of the lineup? Or will he turn the job over to Aubrey/Wigginton, leaving us all wishing for more?

The time is now, Andy. No more reason to wait.

The Reds are going to pay this guy $5Mil a year for five years. They bought a top flight pitcher cheap. Have any commenters out there seen this guy pitch? No. Well, I have. He's worth every dollar the Reds are giving him. Ever seen a guy consistantly throw a ball at over a hundred miles per? He's not a prospect, the guy's the real thing. He's a little wild right now, so you don't want to dig in against him. But give him a season under his belt and he's the Reds number one starter. Gee, we could of used a number one starter.

Hey "pablo"

Do you actually have any thoughts of your own, or do you just come here to kneel down in front of wayne? Cause that's all you ever seem to do. I'd like to hear what you have to say... other than how great wayne is...

Wait... would you writing out anything else blow your cover?

Jay -

Since when does Chapman consistently throw 100MPH?

This is from his scouting report: "Fastball – Chapman’s fastball is typically clocked in the 93 – 96 range and will occasionally touch 97 – 99. Every once in a while, Chapman will hit 100 on the radar gun. However, on some days, Chapman’s fastball will actually be clocked between 90 – 93."

Link: http://www.baseball-intellect.com/aroldis-chapman-everything-you-need-to-know/

I'll trust that over you.

Also, how is he "not a prospect"? Last I checked, anyone who hasn't played Major League Baseball is a prospect.

I'll agree with you that Chapman is an immense talent and that he's worth the risk that the Reds took on him, but to say that he's going to be the Reds #1 starter in 2011 is just plain ridiculous. Until he proves himself, he's more Brien Taylor than Randy Johnson.

Food for thought: In his only non Cuba action, the 2009 WBC, Chapman put up a 5.68 ERA in 6.1 innings. Sure, it's a tiny sample size, but if this guy is already as good as what you're making him out to be, why did he get hammered by the best talent in the world?

chris,

you are a jerk. even when Gil is polite to you while disagreeing, the first time he says anything you don't like, you go at him personally.

i happen to agree with wayne and guys like him. i know to you and other head in the sanders don't like people who speak the truth, but too bad.

you not only continue to defend a front office that consistently and still puts an inferior group of players on the field, but you also continue to lash out at those who speak the truth about a very bad sports team.

you and others just can't help lashing out at others because you have nothing else to stand on.

i have never said anything to you personally, frankly because i don't think you're worth the time. no one who blindly and cowardly suggest this team is always turning the corner is.

jerk

"pablo"

Ok, I'm a jerk, fine. Please go and find any time that I "lashed out" at anyone. Especially Gil, who even though I have had disagreements with in the past, I think we have a certain respect towards each other.

Basically, when I challenged you to actually write your own feelings on the team, you came and felt the need to defend wayne and the non-"head in the sanders." You claimed that you agreed with them on everything and then repeated the age-old "inferior players" talking point without supporting it one bit with any sort of evidence. Basically you came up with nothing of your own. You treat wayne like he's a religion, even referring to the non-"head in the sanders" as "the truth."

Are you a follower at the feet of wayne? Or are you your own man? I'd really just like to hear how you feel about the team in your own words, pablo. Let's hear about you and your experience with the O's.

In your last comment, out of five paragraphs, you managed to communicate "your own" feelings in one and then you spent four talking about me and the other positive posters, even though you "don't think we're worth the time." That's good. That, not surprisingly, sounds just like wayne-speak.

I'll ask you this, pablo... what IS worth the time? Is it worth the time to come on here and cheer on wayne? Or is it worth the time to have your own point of view?

"Or is it worth the time to have your own point of view?"

Sorry, that should be, "Or is it worth the time to EXPRESS your own point of view?"

pablo -

Both sides are wearing blinders.

The "haters" are blinded by their contempt for the front office and the lack of support from Peter Angelos. They see that the team isn't doing anything to bring in a big name player or two, but that's all they see. They're blind to the fact that this team has a nice collection of young MLB ready players who could come together to surprise the heck out of the American League.

The "warehousers" are blinded by their acceptance of Andy MacPhail's plan. They see a guy who won two rings with the Twins and got the Cubs within a game of the 2003 World Series and hope for the same glory for the Orioles. These guys are blinded by hope. They're blind to the fact that this team should be doing something, anything, to complement the young nucleus.

There are a few people in the middle, and they end up getting attacked by both sides.

Oh, and both sides lash out and call the other side names. You just blamed Chris for that and then proceeded to do it yourself.

Chris in Hawaii

Have you considered the possibility that pablo, and any number of other similiar boot lickers, actually is wayne.

chris,

they were and are my thoughts. whether they be about wayne, the orioles, or whatever. listen, how many different ways can someone say how bad the orioles are? how can someone truly be creative about something that stares everyone square in the face? The continued losing speaks for itself. whenever i, wayne or anyone suggest remedy's, we're ALWAYS accused of saying the same ole thing. there's a reason for that chris. it's because it's not that difficult to figure out and there's only so many ways to say the same thing.

And not brooks, i think it's unfair to always call people like me, wayne and others 'haters'. all people like me have ever talked about is wining baseball games, something the orioles do worse than practically every other team, year in and year out. it never stops. but when people call out the warehouse, they're called haters.

Seems like wayne coined the phrase 'warehousers', and it seems it has stuck. for good reason though. Gil and Wayne have talked about there being people employed by the warehouse to help their cause, whether through blogs, call in shows, you name it. while i never thought about it, i believe it's true. in fact it has become very obvious. and you know what? it sucks that it has to be that way.

i don't blog very often, but i do check pete's stuff out. i do get a kick out of the blind faithful year after year, but i usually just keep my thought to myself. you guys live for these blogs, i don't. doesn't keep me from speaking my opinion from time to time.

pablo -

I think the reason wayne and others were coined as "haters" is because they refuse to see any good in the organization.

They talk about how 2010 is going to be just as bad as, or worse than, 2009, ignoring the possibility of considerable improvement from Matusz, Tillman, Jones, Reimold, Weiters and even Markakis. And when someone mentions that possible improvement, they just talk about how a lot of prospects don't pan out, comparing the current crop of youngsters to the junk heap crops of youngsters from recent years.

I think that a decent amount of the "warehousers" have been willing to admit that some deviation from "The Plan" is necessary, and that the team needs to bring in a proven ace and a cleanup hitter. But it's a rare "hater" who will admit that the organization has put together a really nice core of young ballplayers.

pablo,

"whenever i, wayne or anyone suggest remedy's..."

I'm waiting to hear any of your remedies. I haven't seen any from you (or from wayne that I can remember for that matter...) and that's what I asked for. I asked for your opinion of the team. What should they do? What would you do if you were the GM?


You just typed 275 words (which shows that obviously, you do have some time to spend here), with not one of them proposing anything that this team do. You want them to not lose. Fine. No one else actually wants them to lose (with the possible exception of wayne, who is apparently a masochist). But plenty of other people, like Gil, come on here and make valid points about what direction the team should be heading in. He talks about his experiences with the O's and it at least shows his point of view.

All I'm asking is you try to do the same and add something to the discussion.


@anonymous - Yes, I've considered that, but I don't want to believe it's true because that would be absolutely pathetic.

FA Market Update - With Huff signing in SF it appears the market has reached the point where it is only yielding 1 year deals perhaps with a team or mutual 2nd option year. And with legit cleanup hitters Jermaine Dye & Jim Thome still on the market this appears to be the time for the Orioles to make a move.

A quick take on the teams with possible DH openings (current projection):

Seattle (Griffey)
Chicago (Kotsay/A.Jones)
Detroit (Guillen)
Kansas City (Josh Fields)
Orioles (L. Scott)

I think Dye would be preferable given that he is younger and capable of backing up Markakis in right field. He has also stated a willingness to move to 1st base at this point in his career and the Orioles could open a spring-training 1B competition between him and Scott with Aubrey filling in as a late-inning defensive replacement during the regular season.

Thome is probably even a better cleanup option but no longer plays the field and thus loses value in interleague games. He could also prove useful as a resource along with Aubrey in helping Scott learn 1B defensively.

Thome's remaining options are probably reduced to the 5 listed teams while Dye can possibly still sign as an outfielder or 1B. Both remain viable power threats and while I wouldn't expect either to necessarily outproduce the rest of the individuals in the Oriole's lineup they are oblivious to the pressure that players like Markakis, Weiters, and Jones have felt hitting cleanup. Of the current players Reimold displays the best demeanor to handle the role but the Orioles need to see him handle the 2nd year pitching adjustments and stay healthy an entire season before they would consider him a full-time cleanup option.

Cameron -

I had completely forgotten about Jermaine Dye. He's pretty similar to Vlad Guerrero in that he had a down year in 2009, but I'd expect a rebound from Dye before Vlad because Dye doesn't have the injury issues.

I'm guessing Dye's still on the market because he's looking for a multi-year deal, but I can't imagine he's still expecting to get one. He's a brick in the outfield and I doubt any team would be willing to gamble a significant contract on him expecting that he would play first base full time.

New thought:

Sign Dye for one year, $4-5M base + performance incentives

Sign LaRoche for one year, $6-7M + performance incentives and $8-9M club option for 2011

2010 Lineup:

1. Roberts, 2b
2. Jones, cf
3. Markakis, rf
4. Dye, dh
5. LaRoche, 1b
6. Weiters, c
7. Reimold, lf
8. Atkins, 3b
9. Izturis, ss

Oh, and in that scenario, you trade Streaky Scott for a couple of high ceiling prospects.

not brooks,

I don't know that Dye is the answer. If you look at his stats, he tends to start out ok, then get really hot in July, and then he regresses a lot in August and September. The only thing is, last year, he didn't just regress, he flat out tanked.

I wonder if it had anything to do with Thome going over to LA... If that were the case, it means that Dye probably can't handle being THE MAN, aka a solid #4 guy. I know he's a righty, which we are looking for, but I'd rather go for Delgado, who even though he's a lefty, can give you coverage at 1B if necessary (and if we don't sign LaRoche, yet another lefty).

Just coming back from injury, playing ball for the first time since, he's hitting .400+ in the Puerto Rican winter league with an OPS around 1.000. He hit a homer in his 3rd game back, so the power is still there. Granted this is a small sample size (about 5 games since he only started playing a week ago), but I think it shows that he's still very capable.

And I'd like to think that we could get a decent prospect in return for Scott, but I wonder if other teams aren't aware of his streakyness. I'm with you though in getting him out of the line-up. His bat is just too frustratingly hot/cold.

Chris -

You're probably right about Delgado over Dye. I'm just spit-balling here, hoping that something happens soon...

And I do think that Scott could net a young AA guy or a couple of young A-ball guys. Regardless of his streaky-ness, he's a 20+ homer guy who could fit in pretty well with a power-barren team like Seattle or maybe San Francisco.

not brooks,

Seattle seems like the best bet, especially since they just got Casey "power outage" Kotchman for 1st and Figgins at 3rd. Plus, didn't Luke destroy them in Seattle last year? I think that's where he put up that 7 rbi game...

If they could put him in left (and considering that they were in talks with Damon, I think they could), I think the Giants make sense too.

I would think a Brandon Waring type guy for A ball would get the job done. I'd take Alex Liddi straight up (he's going to AA), but I don't know if Seattle would be too keen on that.

Chris -

Hadn't heard of Liddi, so I looked him up.

I think you're right. The M's probably wouldn't been too keen on trading him, but I'd take him in a heartbeat.

I'd expect a decent, low level pitcher like Juan Ramirez and maybe a guy like Jharmidy DeJesus who has serious power potential, but hasn't really shown what he can do yet.

I'd definitely like Ramirez, but he went to Philly in the big Lee/Halladay trade. I'd be willing to take DeJesus and another low level starter though.

I think Luke might be a LF/DH upgrade for the Royals. I wonder if they'd be willing to part with Danny Duffy?

As for the Giants, how about Luke for Steve Johnson? ;-)

Not Brooks,

I think you just gave the State of the Union for the blog in your analysis of the blog members participation and styles.

Your are right, NB, I do hold the Orioles organization in low esteem for all of the reasons we have beaten to death for years.

I have given Macphail credit for prospect acquistion and player development, but I do think that he has failed miserably in upgrading the product on the field, which I believe could have been done simultaneously. By going into the 2010 season and hoping that all of the young prospects perform flawlessly resulting in an end to the losing is just not logical.

I do appreciate the collegial relationships that many of us have managed to develop even though at times our opionions are 360 degrees apart.

This blog started about Chapman and the fact that the Orioles would likely not sign him. But to me Chapman is a metaphor for all of the name FA's that Macphail has failed to sign since he became GM.

I will remain jaundiced in my opinion about Macphail and the Orioles until when and if I see the Orioles bring in top level free agent talent.

When it comes to Peter Angelos and Andy Macphail, I'm not from Baltimore, I'm from Missouri. Show me.

Whether it is Dye, Thome, or Delgado we need a professional hitter in the #4 spot. I think the Mets are still the favorites to re-sign Delgado if he grades out well in his winter league. And while Luke Scott can be frustrating with his streaky hitting style I think it means more that he cannot be relied on as an every day middle of the lineup hitter than he should be jettisoned for prospects. If you go strictly by the numbers he had a better offensive season in 2009 than Markakis (.828 to .801 OPS) and far outperformed him against LHP (.837 to .682 OPS).

In fact, using Markakis' career splits in OPS .879 vs. RHP and .751 vs. LHP we should question why Trembley ever feels justified batting Markakis 3rd in a major league lineup against a left-hander. Statistically he is a legit #3 hitter against RHP but no more than a #2 against lefties.

At least last year, Scott showed a better ability to drive the ball against LHP and is a relatively cheap power source for a team that ranked 11 out of 14 in HR in the AL. Until we have a true 35+ HR guy in the middle I don't feel we can afford to trade any of our existing power hitters.

Chris in Hawaii,

If you are still interested in trading Luke Scott to San Francisco, although I get the Johnson joke, here is the guy to ask for

http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=502130

Follow the link and play the video below Runzler's picture.

@Gil - The only real FA signing I think MacPhail missed the boat on was Tex. He was a guy who would have been a huge boost to the club in terms of ticket sales, if not in the standings right away. However, by all the accounts I've read, Boras took a "thanks, but don't call us, we'll call you" stance. Now, I think the O's should have offered more regardless, if nothing more than just to show that Tex is the money grubbing Boras-whore that he is, but ultimately, he was going to New York. He wanted to go there and seeing how the Red Sox were interested, Boras played up their interest in him to drive NY's price up.

Other than Tex though, I didn't see any great FA that would have been a great addition. I know not brooks and I differ on Holliday. To me he was a square piece for a round hole. The only other big name we really had a shot at was Burnett last year, but again, the money he got from the Yankees was outlandish and I think that contract is gonna bite them considering his health in the past.

Now, again, like Tex, I think they could have had a more solid offer out there for Chapman. For me, I would say $20 million, but in the end, that wouldn't have mattered anyway. I wouldn't have gone past that number and he got $5 million more. So there it is.

Now, if Jan. 2011 comes and goes and Jan. 2012 does the same and we still have no big signings, then I'll be done with the plan (this of course is assuming we don't have a solid 1B in place), but right now, none of the moves that haven't been made (if that makes sense) seem illogical to me.

I'm obviously in the middle camp where not brooks lives and love your lineup proposed above and think it'd mean a 78+ win season with reasonable improvement from the hitting kids and a couple over achieving seasons by the kid starters...not INCREDIBLE, but maybe a little more than expected. Brooks, the one thing I would do with that lineup is get Jones out of the #2 hole and put Reimold in there and flip he and markakis for lefty righty matchups.

Tex is the only FA Mac missed on. He would've been worth more to the Os than any other player...local comes home. If it was my money, I would've offered 25 mill a year for 10 years. It would have paid for itself on and off the field.

Wow, Cameron.

Runzler looks nice. 96 mph from a lefty is great stuff. So great that I don't know if they'd want to give him up for Scott. I wouldn't... but I'm biased.

I understand not wanting to give him away automatically, but to me, you can find a good DH relatively cheap in FA right now. (Yes, I'm talking Delgado). I don't think he'd cost that much more since Scott is going into his 2nd year of arbitration (is that right?). Basically, I'd rather have more consistency (with probably equal power) and a guy who could be legit in the #4 slot.

I'm with you on the Markakis thing too. Personally, I think if we get a #4 guy, like Delgado, you'd be better suited transitioning Nolan to #3 by the end of the year and putting Markakis back into that #2 slot. Then you'd be looking at hitting Jones in the 6 spot behind Wieters, which would cut down on possible double plays. Or you could hit him #9 as a kind of 2nd lead off guy with Izturis hitting at 8.

Chris in Hawaii,

Chris,

When a team has a needa good GM goes out an fills that need, either through a trade, or signing a FA. The Orioles needed a big right handed bat this offseason and it looks like they will go into Spring Training without one. Holliday would have made everybody in the lineup better, but he wasn't the only way that Macphail could have gone to fill the need. It was never on his radar screen. He is plodding along with the pure rebuilding program, and I think it is PR catastrophe.

I know you have high hopes for 2010, but this is not likely to be a very good team. Sure, miracles could happen, but the last time I checked our Lady of Fatima hasn't been seen since 1917.

The Orioles have collected some good prospects. That's all. Macphail has some ingredients to cook the soup but threw away the recipe.

Gil -

Does Brian Giles count as a big right handed bat? He hit 38 home runs in 2002 and I hear he's willing to play for a nickel.

What about Gary Sheffield? He does that cool waggle thing with his bat and his middle name is Antonian. That's got to count for something, right?

Side note: Something better happen soon, because I'm starting to get delirious...

Not Brooks,

The only thing that's going to happen soon, in a relative sense, is another last place finish in 2010, brought to you by that 60's relic, Andy Macphail.
O, and not to mention another 100,000 drop in attendance.

But that doesn't really matter, because we are rebuilding, and rebuilding is a process, not a program. A program has a beginning and an end but a process is prepetual motion. We can all forget about going to the games and entertain ourselves by playing rotiseree baseball with our prospects for the next few years.

I'll give you two Chris Tillman's for one Brian Matusz.

Gil-

The guy I was really hoping for was Uggla. Apparently those talks are all but dead. But I wonder what the Marlins wanted for him? It was also unfortunate that he seemed to be reluctant to move from 2nd base as I think he'd be a legit 1B and clean up guy for us.

I would have given up Hernandez, Waring and Steve Johnson before the rule 5 draft. It's hard to speculate on what they would have wanted, though I'm certain they would have wanted Erbe or Arrieta over Johnson. I think Hernandez would do really well for Florida though.

That said, it looks like it's between Delgado and LaRoche for 1st. Who would you guys rather have?

My answer is LaRoche for 1st and Delgado to DH. With both of their options waning, I think you could get each of them on a one year deal with a lower base and incentives for Delgado.

Gil,

I'll bet you $50 we finish in front of the Jays.

Hi Chris,

I think Delgado is breaking down physically and would not be a very good gamble.

I like Laroche, and always have, but I don't think we are going to get him either.

I think Macphail is pretty much done for the winter and is going to try to skate through 2010 with what we have. That is a shame because it did not have to be this way. At the very least I think Beltre would have been a decent risk worth taking.

I'm just very disappointed that Macphail seems to be tone deaf.

Gil,

Beltre turned down 2 three year deals around $23 million to play in Boston, I doubt he would have listened to any reasonable, or even slightly above reasonable deal from the O's.

Delgado just started playing in the Puerto Rican winter league last week. Through 5 or so games, he's hitting .400+ with an OPS around 1.000. I don't think he's done. At the very least, he would have no problem filling the DH role. I read somewhere where the Mets said last year that if he didn't have to play in the field he could have finished out the season.

And I don't see why LaRoche wouldn't be obtainable. mlbtraderumors was speculating that the O's are pretty much the only team left with interest in LaRoche. It's looking more and more like he has the option of Baltimore or sitting at home.

Last year, deals were being made into February, so I don't think MacPhail is done, I think he was just waiting until he had more leverage in negotiations.

But if the O's are in fact done, you can be the first to tell me "I told you so." :)

Chris and Not Brooks,

God, I hate to be this jaded because I want this team to win so badly. Seriously, both of you, can you ever see Peter Angelos paying anybody 20 million plus a year for five years? Ever?

By the way Chris, I will bet you that the Orioles finish behind the Jays, and I would like to hear your reasoning. I kid about it but I haven't placed a monetary wager since I lost $300 in 1969 as a young man. I bet the Colts would beat the Jets, the Orioles would beat the Mets and the Bullets would beat the Knicks. That had to be the worst 12 months ever for a Baltimore sports fan and I still am upset about it to this day. Not the money but the year.

Fascinating stuff,

First of all, to suggest I haven't acknowledged some good things is simply a lie. Truth is, I've talked about the good, young developing players numerous times.

What I don't do however is list the names (like you did and like so many love to do).
I don't do it because it's meaningless over-hype. Do you realize how many teams have their own list of names? The only reason you're listing them is because it's the only thing you've got.

Yes, I know...... at least they are names that the Orioles haven't been able to brag about in the past. But the bottom line, they're developing names (accept for markakis who has turned into a pretty good pro).

Problem is not brooks, the 'names' don't come close to equalling even an average major league baseball team. Even PETE on his saturday radio show has said that if ALL the young players reasonably develop in 2010, they may win 75 games. Wow! What a positive projection......75 wins!

I actually have agreed with you not brooks when it has come to possible signings this off season. The problem I have however is.....even after you 'passionately' plead for AM to make a move for a player, you simply seem to say 'ok' when AM once again passes (and he always passes).

You're not a 'warehouser' not brooks, but when are you going to get pissed off? You realize players like Weiters, Reimold, Markakis, etc all need to be surrounded by a couple proven bats, yet when it never happens, you seem fine with it.

Well I'm tired of feeling FINE with the Orioles progression. I'm tired of feeling FINE with the losing. I'm tired of feeling FINE with 75 wins. I'm tired of feeling FINE with always writing off the upcoming year before the upcoming year ever begins..

I'm no longer FINE..... Not anymore! And I'm not alone!

And Chris and Pablo.... Be my guest to talk about me as much as you'd like. Your choice! I'm used to the criticism from guys like Chris, Pablo. I've been called every name in the book and I've been misrepresented so often that I'm no longer fazed at all.

Lies will always be lies, and losses will always be losses. With both, there will always be 'spinners' and 'defensive' people.

Spin away not brooks. Spin away chris, Spin away the rest of you in the minority.... Spin away!

Gil,

I could really see that happening. Albert Belle's contract adjusted for inflation comes out to about $85 million over five years, so it's not that far off. And they offered Tex $140 million for 7 years, so that is equivalent to the $20 for 5 deal.

As for why I think the Jays will be worse than the O's, I posted this a while back:

"Don't forget the Jays lost Halliday and Scutaro so far in the off season. They've gotten some minor league talent in return, but their replacement for Scutaro is Alex Gonzales and their replacement for Halladay doesn't exist. They dumped Rios at the end of last year too, leaving their outfield as Adam Lind (a horrible fielder, so they DH'd him last year), Vernon Wells and Travis Snider. They still have major questions at first and catcher and they'll be starting Encarnacion at 3rd until Brett Wallace is ready (not unlike waiting for Josh Bell, only Atkins looks better than Encarnacion). About the only infield position they're solid in is at 2B."

And you can now say that Atkins LITERALLY looks better than Encarnacion since Encarnacion blew his face off last week.

Chris,

Atkins is "adequate" at best at third defensively and coming off a terrible year offensively. He could be done. We don't even know who our first baseman is going to be.

The starting rotation is a wing and a prayer, with one "going over the hill' veteren in Millwood. Is anybody expecting Guthrie to get better approaching 30? Guthrtie was never an ace, just the best we had. What does that say? The Orioles needed to pick up a top of the rotation starter in the offseason. Instead they overpaid for Millwood who's best days are behind him

Tell me about our established middle relievers and proven closer. It's all hypothetical hope at this point, and yes, I am hoping.

What can you say about Adam Jones until he stays healthy and becomes consistent. Are you ready to pencil him in for 25 home runs and 95 ribbies?

Nolan Reimold may struggle big time as pitchers exploit his weaknesses. are you penciling him in for 25 home runs and 95 riibbies?

Matt Wieters will not hit 35 home runs and drive in 100 runs. Maybe 19 and 80.

Chris, on paper, this is going to be a bad team, and macphail had a chance to make it a lot better this winter.

Gil,

Your post is so rational, so obvious and so full of common sense, you'll get blasted by the 3 posters employed by the Orioles, and the 3 posters who are talking about 2013.

Great stuff!

Gil,

No matter what you think of the O's, what I'm saying is take a look at the Jays. Look at the team they will be fielding and tell me that you honestly believe they are a better team than the O's. Their best pitcher is probably Ricky Romero. Are you going to tell me he's a legit Ace?

There's a reason we swept them in the final series of the season. They are a team that is blowing it up and starting over, just like the O's did after 2007.

Are folks really debating whether the O's finish 4th or 5th? Who gives a $hit. The O's are terrible. The Jays are terrible. 140/7 to Tex was laughable. 200/7 might have gotten it done. It needed to get done. It wasn't. And our fate was sealed for the next 5+ years. We will not get AGon. We do have some 'prospects' but who gives a crap when our competitors are signing proven talent. PA has ruined the O's.

Go Ravens.

Isn't it pretty telling that there are now posters betting that the birds will beat the jays this season? As if that would be an accomplishment worth even noticing. Is there a term worse than 'rock bottom'?

"200/7 might have gotten it done. It needed to get done. It wasn't. And our fate was sealed for the next 5+ years."

"Is there a term worse than 'rock bottom'?"

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Chris,

The Blue Jays have been 7 and 5 while the Orioles have gone 0 and 12 since 1998. The Orioles are a dysfunctional organization headed by a dysfunctional owner. OK, the Blue jays are going to have a bad year. But the problem with the Orioles is systemic and can not be fixed as long as Angelos owns the team.

The Blue Jays have earned the right to have a down season or two because they have stayed competitive. They will be back. The Orioles aren't even close to being competitive and Macphail thinks he is dealing with an expansion team and has all the time and goodwill in the world on his side. He does not and the attendance may drop completely off the chart this year. Other than us, and Oriole employees, nobody in Baltimore gives a crap about the team anymore.

The Orioles own the longest current consecutive season losing record in the American League.

The sky isn't falling, the Orioles are again in 2010. And it will be ugly.

There is no way to even market the team this year. What is the new marketing slogan going to be?

Peter Angelos should refund every ticket holder evry time the team loses on his owm nickel. That will be the only way that they will even draw 1,500,000 this year.

Garrett Atkins. Are you kidding me? That is our name free agent postion player?

The sky fell a long time ago in Birdland.

I still call it Birdland (not Turdland), because I love the O's and I love baseball. I have a 5 yr old boy and I hope one day he can appreciate the game and the team I love. I feel bad for the parents of any kid that's 10-15 and never experienced good Baltimore baseball. Shame on PA.

Go Ravens!

PA is a wonderful man who makes great personnel decisions.

Jim Thome playing his home games at OPACY, is intriguing to me. He's a threat to hit a HR every time he's at the plate which is something none of the current O's can do. Thome was banged up in LA plus he was strictly a pinch hitter so he's rested and we've all seen what he can do against us.

For 1B, I would love to see what Ryan Garko could do with 500+ ABs. You get Thome and Garko along with the guys here and the power isn't just at 2-3 spots in the lineup, as it's now throughout the lineup.

People can talk about how great the offense was and that the pitching was the problem and I wont argue that pitching was a huge problem, but the 09 Birds would score a bunch of runs in one game and then go days without putting up a big amount of runs on the board.

The BP could still use some vets at the backend and for the love of Jim Hunter, sign Hendrickson already. Why the hell create more holes than we already have unless Sarfarte and McCrory have found the magic potion to pitch, but I think Jim Hunter is more likely to become a good announcer before that happens.

Anyone know if Ben Sheets can pitch at the start of the year or is he more likely to be ready the 2nd half? He's a guy that might be worth the risk because he's really good when healthy which unfortunately is sporadic at best.

"The sky isn't falling, the Orioles are again in 2010. And it will be ugly."

Give me a prediction then. Right now, how bad do you think the O's will be, record wise?

According to what you just said, their record will be worse than last year. That means you believe they will have less than 64 wins and most likely, you believe that this is a 100 loss team. Am I correct in assuming this is what you're thinking?

I can't see that as a realistic possibility. Not with the improvement in the pitching rotation. Not with the younger players having a little bit of experience under their belts. Not with there being no significant downgrades at any position on the team.

I see this as a 77-78 win team as it is, with the possibility of 81-83 wins if everything goes really well. Like I've said multiple times in these comment sections, if we can maintain the runs scored per game from last year (not inconceivable even without any more additions to the lineup) and lower our team ERA to about 4.4 or so, there is no reason we shouldn't be around .500. Sure, it's not contention, but it's a huge step in the right direction.


@Birdland Todd - You can wipe Ben Sheets off of your blackboard. According to Roch Kubatko, the team requested his medical records and his representation would not provide them with the documents.

Chris,

A couple years ago, Brooks Robinson was asked about the current Orioles situation. His reply was" 10 losing seasons in a row. That's pretty hard to do." I disagree with Brooks....13 losing seasons ina row will be fairly easy to do for this team. You mentioned the pitching improvement. Is Guthrie going to get better? Is Millwood going to win 15 to 18? How many wins will Tillman, Matusz and Bergenson get? How many innings can they pitch this year apiece?

Last year's 37 man pitching trout camp was pathetic, but how many pitchers are they going to bring to camp this spring? There is almost as much uncertainty this spring as last as to what the staff will look like when they go North.

I think you are assuming that all of the young players get better. As I said before, who is going to play first base?

Chris, there are more questions than answers on this team going in to next year. Can they lose 98 or 100? Yes, I think they could. More likely they will win 70 to 74 games. I don't see how they get anywhere near 80.

Macpahil is not putting together the team to win in 2010, he is floating an experiment. In my book his goal should have been at least a .500 team by 2010. He has no timetable, and the joke is on the fans, who will continue to vote with their feet.

Posted by: not brooks | January 11, 2010 2:09 PM

not brooks, that is a perfect disambiguation of the situation on here. Well said.

Hopefully, everyone (including myself) who posts on here will gain some understanding from it.

I remember reading these blogs last year. some of the names have changed, but some of the exact same things were being said. mainly, the theme last year was 'let the players develop things year, and watch what happens in 2010'.

Well, it's 2010, and it's the same exact theme. Gil said something above that rings so true. Regarding MacPhail, he said 'he has no timetable, and the joke is on the fans...'

So true Gil. at least many of us are finally seeing things for what they really are now though, even though some of the same people will keep saying the same things, year after year.

The O's will lose to the Cards in the World Series this year. Bank on it.

Chris,

I just took a look at the 2010 schedule for the first time and I am going to revise my loss estimate for the Orioles up to at least 100.

The Orioles play 88 games before the Star Break and over 50 of them are against teams with a combined winning percentage in 2009 of .550. They have 24 games against the Red Sox and Yankees alone before the break. The no name bullpen will be worn out before the break, and the second half of the season will be a melt down. The young pitchers will only pitch six innings even if they are pitching well.

The true believers will start talking about 2011 before the All Star Break. This is what Andy Macphail has wrought on Baltimore. Next season is over before it starts.

How can anyone look at the proposed pitching staff and predict even 75 wins?

Call me a pessimist. I say I am a realist. It is going to get ugly early and the spinners will be on here in June saying it never was about 2010 anyhow.

If the Orioles lose 100 games in 2010 Andy Macphail should be fired, period, plan or no plan. That would be a disgrace.

I know you don't share that opinion and I respect that.


And many of those 'Spinners' Gil will be from the Baltimore media, especially MASN, 1057thefan and the SUN.

And Pablo, you're 100% correct. The same people were saying the same thing last year, not only on these post, but in the media.

So, it's 95 to 100 losses this year (obviously), then right back to the 'it's not about this year' again in 2011.

Before you know it, AM will be in year 6 of his rebuilding Plan. By that time, maybe fans will start to understand what's happening. The media already knows!

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Yes, Wayne, that's why we're in the media, because we know the difference between the third year of a five-year rebuilding plan and the sixth. Would you like me to explain that to you?

Wayne,

You are 100% correct when you say that the Orioles don't face the same type of journalistic scrutiny from the local media that the Ravens do. All we get are puff pieces about Inetrnational Scouting efforts,updates on Minor League coaches, and the gushing shills on 105.7.

O, and the "Sun" regularly brings us up to date on who we DIDN"T sign.

WNST 1570 radio is the only local outlet telling the truth and as a result the owner of the station can't even get a press pass from the Orioles.

The real story here is that In three years Andy Macphail has collected some good prospects. That's all. Period.

There is no talk of winning, just reuilding. There is no time frame for winning. There is no commitment to winning.

There are so many things that would have to go right for the Orioles to win more than 70 games it is ridiculous. What about middle relief? Who's gonna hold the other team after the starters get lit up for 6 runs in 4 innings?

Where are the answers from the organization? Why isn't anyone even asking them? I don't get it.

And as I said last night, our major FA postion player is Garrett Atkins. Are you kidding me?

"Where are the answers from the organization? Why isn't anyone even asking them? I don't get it."

Are you really asking someone to answer questions and be accountable for a losing season that you are projecting? It's January. Pitchers and catchers don't even report for a month. At least let free agency end and the season play out a little before you start calling for heads.

And how many great FA position players were out there in the market to begin with? 0

Holliday and Bay are definitely really good guys, but they aren't great. They got paid like great players because of the weak competition. That's not warehouse spin, that's logic.

But of course you guys have "fact" and "truth" on your side, so how can logic battle that?

wayne -

I'm not fine with Andy not signing a big bat.

I still think that he should have done whatever it took to sign Teixeira. And if that didn't work, I still think he should have done whatever it took to sign Holliday.

I guess that I've turned to apathy instead of anger. After watching the O's fail to sign one big name free agent after another, maybe I've just given up on that hope.

Chris,

Sorry friend, but I see the situation differently than you. That doesn't make me right, you wrong, or vice versa. I think it is a fair observation that the team, as currently constructed is not competitive in the American League East.

The fact is that Macphail has had three years to improve the talent level on the field through either trades or FA acquisitions or both.

I think someone in the local media should start questioning Andy Macphail on what exactly is the end game here.

Here would be my question:

"Andy, the Orioles are coming off a 98 loss season, their 12th consecutive losing season in a row, and the last two losing seasons have been your sole responsibility. The potential opening day roster still has many question marks, especially the pitching staff. You have been here since 1997. What can you tell Oriole fans as to where you think the team is right now, and when will the team be in a position to compete and end the losing?


Then I would sit back and watch him squirm, equivocate, and remind us how bad things were when he got here, talk about prospects and potential, then change the subject.


Then here is my follow up question, since he dodged the first one, I will reframe it and ask it again in another way:

"Andy, the average fan does not follow the team that closely and is mainly concerned that the Orioles finally put a winning product on then field after all of the years of losing. When do you see that happening?"

Now Chris, wouldn't you like to see him answer that question?

not brooks,

Fair enough!

Gil,

Chris can't answer such a question without there being oriole bias. It's simply impossible!

Chris,

Logic? Dude, nothing personal, but you really sound ridiculous! The truth is, the Orioles have ANOTHER terrible team going into 2010. And while they do have some nice developing players, the idea is to put a TEAM on the field that can be 'competitive'. This 'team' has zero chance of accomplishing such.

You need to give something more than your so called Logic Chris. You may want to try being honest with yourself. Hype is never good, as it suggest false or far reaching conclusions.

Gil,

I don't need him to answer that question because I follow the team closely and already know the answer.

1 - The last two seasons were not his sole responsibility. How can you claim him solely responsible when the O's were still on the books for the bad contracts given to Jay Gibbons, Jay Payton, Ramon Hernandez, Melvin Mora, Danys Baez, Jamie Walker...? A lot of the previous administration's screw ups were still on his plate. Now, I don't think MacPhail would point this out, but it's fairly obvious that he was handcuffed to these contracts and they restricted his operations somewhat.

2 - I would say that we definitely have less question marks going into this season than last season. At this point, we only really have two questions. The first is who will play 1st or 3rd to begin the season? Atkins will have one of those positions, but the other will be answered either before Spring Training (a LaRoche or 3B signing), or in Spring Training (a competition between Aubrey, Hughes and Snyder). The other question is, who will be in the bullpen? But that question is more a matter of currently having too many people for too many slots (while still maintaining the possibility of signing Hendrickson). Right now, the bullpen looks like this:

Gonzalez - Lefty Closer
Johnson - Righty Set-up
Mickolio - Righty (7th inning guy)
Uehara - Righty (long relief)
Meredith - Righty (ground ball specialist)
Hernandez - Righty (long relief)
Sarfate - Righty
Berken - Righty
Albers - Righty
Gabino - Righty

Now, obviously three of those guys are going to have to be trimmed (or four if we sign Hendrickson) via cuts, designations to AAA, or trades (I put certain people on the bottom for a reason). But this is a completely different problem from last year's starting rotation where, going into Spring Training, we were trying to fill 3/5 of the rotation by bringing in five handfuls of guys to try out (basically having our own "Invincible" situation). This year's starting rotation is pretty much set already with:

Millwood
Guthrie
Matusz
Bergesen
Tillman

There is a possibility that they sign another starter like Bedard (who wouldn't be ready until midway through the season), but, again, that wouldn't be like the problem last year, where we had a lack of quality guys. In addition to the starting rotation question last year, we were wondering about left field and wondering if Huff could handle 1st. I don't see how you can be so blind to the questions going into 2009 (starting pitching and left field) that were answered during the season.

3 - Andy has been here since 2007, not 1997.

4 - The team is in a position to compete now. Now that doesn't necessarily mean we will contend this year, but we will be a very competitive team and a winning season is not illogical to anticipate. Given the overhaul in pitching that we have seen from the beginning of last year, it is not unlikely to see a team ERA under 4.50, which was what our offense averaged last year. Even with the question of who will play 1st/3rd, the production the team got last year from those positions is obtainable by little leaguers. Also, unlike last year, when Felix Pie put up a sub .200 BA through the first month and a half of the season, you should get better production off the bat from LF.

You say that he would "equivocate, and remind us how bad things were when he got here, talk about prospects and potential..." Well, you just asked him a question that included references to the 12 losing seasons and you asked him about the potential of the club. How is he supposed to answer without talking about those things when that's what you asked about? How are you going to blast him for rationally answering the question you just asked?

And as to your question about "the average fan not following the team that closely...when are we gonna win?", that's just a flat out dumb question. You want a specific answer to the future, which no one can predict. He could say that we will win 162 games this year. He could say we're gonna win 82 games this year. What would it prove? What would you ask after that? On top of that, you basically call the fans of the team ignorant. You say, well, they don't pay attention to the team that closely. All they know is that we've been losing. If all you can base your vision of the future on is the past, then you are ignorant of the present in relation to the past.

Most sports writers AROUND THE NATION like the direction this team is heading in. We're not just talking about people at The Sun, we're talking guys at ESPN, guys at Sports Illustrated, guys at Baseball America... should I go on? How is it that "the average fan" can be so ignorant, when national writers are commending the direction of the team?

Chris,

Andy Macphail was hired June 2, 2007, early in that season. He certainly is responsible for all of 2008 and 2009, regardless of what he inherited. It's called taking responsibility.

What do you know the answers to Chris? Of the pitchers you penciled in the bullpen, who is coming off a stellar season and can be counted on for an entire season? Tell me about their Major League track records?


Tell me how healthy and effective Sarfate, Albers and Uehara are going to be.

How do you know how Hernandez will perform in middle relief? He may not even make the team out of spring training.

I like Mickolio too but he has very little experience. Johnson is a keeper if used correctly. Berken is another that will have to pitch a lot better to make the team as an effective long reliever.


Do you think that starters who get shelled in the majors automatically make good long relievers? The rotation is set? How do you know that? How many starts has Matusz had at the major league level? Tillman was hit pretty hard last year, pitched to an ERA of 5.40 and gave up 77 hits in 65 innings. Isn't it a bit early to say anything else other than he has potential.

What are we going to get from 35 year old kevin Millwood in the American League other than innings, and i'll take that. He won 13 games last year. Break out the champagne.

Bergenson was the most promising at all and I hope he can stay healthy.

Jeremy Guthrie gave up 232 hits in 211 innings to a 5.04 ERA. Cy Young in 2010?


I don't know how you come up with a team ERA of 4.50 with what we have. But since you follow the team so closely you must be right. Apparently no one follows the team as closely as you do Chris. You tell us that all the time.

Chris, all you have you have to base your argument on is hope and speculation and very little proven effectiveness from the pitching staff. There are no Josh Becketts here, or C.C Sabathia's. Not even an A.J Burnett. Not yet anyhow.

Yes, after three years on the job I think Macphail as the COO should start answering the tough questions, and I don't think it's a dumb question to ask him when he thinks the team is going to turn the corner. His mission is not open ended, nor is he beyond reproach.

I didn't say the fans were ignorant. They are just not paying attention like we are. For most of them it is a simple question of winning and losing. They will start paying attention if and when the teamm starts to win. Right now the majority are indifferent as reflected in the declining attendance numbers. The attendance will continue to decline until the Orioles start to win. So don't you think that's a fair question to diect to Macphail? If I were Peter Angelos I would be asking it.

As I have always said, I don't claim to be right. But if you can't see the holes and questionmarks especially on the pitching staff that I can, then I think I could be closer to properly asessing the situation than you.

Chris I like you, I really do and your enthusiasm for Macphail's rebuilding plan is commendable.

I hope the Orioles win at leat 81 games this year, i really do, but so many things would have to go right that it is not likely. I say they are more likely to lose 100 than win 81.

Over 350 entries in response to a lead post that went up five days ago! That's a great sign. There's passion here, and a terrific will to win. Baltimore is one of the great baseball cities in the country, and as long as that stays true, there's hope on the horizon. THINGS WILL GET BETTER! THEY MUST!

OK, that's my "exuberant irrationality" outburst for the day. Returning to the coldly analytical, some thoughts:

1. I don't believe that the owner doesn't care about winning (his son, maybe, but PA, no; he's too proud and too prominent in the region--the losing must chafe). Further, Mr. Schmuck, when stirred to anger in response to criticism (mine and others'), came out with a blazingly passionate and straightforward assertion that PA cares desperately about winning and that some of the team's current problems stem from the micromanagement that flowed from that selfsame need. I found that explosion by Mr. Schmuck believable, persuasive, and oddly comforting. (It would be nice to see more of that kind of writing from him in the paper itself.)

So, if, for the moment, one accepts the owner's good faith (a tall order, I realize), the problems must lie elsewhere. A few speculations as to where:

1. MacPhail's nature--risk-averse, conservative to a fault,
tight-fisted, rigidly controlling, methodical to the point of blindness to opportunity, incapable of swift action, rigidly wedded to preconcieved mental patterns. Also, a fatal lack of charm (the "wining and dining" issue), and, finally, the lack of the killer instinct needed to close deals successfully. All this may be quite wrong, his past successes may have demonstrated none of these shortcomings, but I can only form conclusions based on the apparent evidence of the past two years. I hope he proves me wrong.

2. The damaging failures with Texeira and Holliday, I think, came down to this: both wanted to play for winners; neither had any intention of coming here. AM and PA realized this and, to save face, backed away from the negotiations. I suspect that, both times, it had nothing to do with money. If this is persuasive, then one must accept the corollary: the only way to land major free-agents (and I think the team needs more than one), will be for the team to FIRST show that it knows how to play baseball, knows how to win. In my book, that means at least 85 wins THIS YEAR, and a finish not far behind the division's second place team, whoever that may be. So, how do the O's manage that?

Pitching.
Millwood was a decent, if not thrilling, addition. If Matusz and Bergeson continue to improve, and if Guthrie can learn another pitch and keep the ball down, things may not be bad. The fifth starter bothers me--a lot. I don't think Tillman is ready. Let's hope someone emerges in ST. A lot of "if"s, but at this stage not much to do about it. (I would stay away from the reclamation projects--
especially Bedard, because he's coming off two of the worst injuries a pitcher can sustain, and probably wouldn't reclaim his pre-injury form until 2011, if ever.) For better or worse, the rotation is stuck with prospects + Millwood. A rational ranking of the rotation might be as follows, although I doubt that Trembley will have the guts to do it:

1.Matusz
2.Bergeson
3.Millwood
4 ?
5.Guthrie

Hitting.

To generate 85 wins this year, the O's will need to score a lot of runs. There will be many games when they'll need to just outslug other teams. With some of our opponents that's not going to happen. But if it happens often enough, we might just have a shot.

At a minimum, AM needs to pick up FAs at 1B and DH, and, if possible at back-up C (who will play at least 50 games and can NOT, a la Moeller, be an automatic out). For the first two spots, LaRoche and Delgado would seem to be the obvious choices, although here I bow to the superior baseball knowledge of many of you posters. Both of these players are good, both will greatly strengthen the line-up, both are available on relatively reasonable terms, as these things go, and, if the money is right, probably will agree to come here. (A certain amount of overpayment will be needed, and will be necessary--losing has its costs.) There doesn't seem to be any reason to not get this done. If, come ST, AM hasn't done it, I'll take back all I've said, and will be seriously depressed.

85 wins. It might be doable, if the gods smile, for once.


No Chris,

Gil wasn't asking a 'stupid' question. It was a legitimate question that you simply don't want to acknowledge.

What's stupid is suggesting that this team is set to 'compete now'. Compete where Chris?

And just stop it about what the national media saying. Yes, they'll tell you things have improved. Improved compared to what though Chris? It's not too difficult to improve over the deadbeats AM brought in to compete in 2009 (Eaton, Hill, Simon, etc, etc, etc....).

He has fooled you Chris and others like you. AM makes this team look better compared to the team entering 2009, why? Because the players he brought in were so PATHETIC!

But, AM did get a little lucky. Two guys named Bergesen and Reimold (who AM had nothing to do with) surprised everyone and performed well before their injury's. Without those two, the losses would have amounted to what? 102, 103 or more losses?

Now, AM is depending on those two..... Two players who may or not be 100%.

Want to talk about something else that's 'dumb' Chris? Your suggestion that THAT rotation and bullpen will bring in an era around 4.50. What kind of crack are they serving up in Hawaii? Talk about a load of misguided hype.

So before you call something Gil says 'dumb', please read your own ridiculous post before pressing Send.

And A Fan,

Been to the Yards when the Yanks and Sox come to town? Don't talk about baltimore fans until you do...... Most fans are 'done' with this sick, pathetic organization. People around the country laugh at how NY, Philly and Boston take over Oriole Park. Even those in the national press you speak of Chris!

Gil,

It seems we're at an impasse. What everything comes down to is that given, what I've seen from the club, I believe they're poised to make strides and you, given what you've seen, believe they're headed for a train wreck.

That's fine. The arguments aren't really anything more than that. You say I have no proof to be so positive and I say you have no proof to be so negative.

As far as the bullpen goes, if you look back at Uehara's starts last year, he was pretty effective in the first three innings and then when his pitch count would get up, he'd start laboring a bit. If that isn't the definition of a solid middle reliever, I don't know what is. Hernandez made only one relief appearance, in Oakland on a day they were lighting the O's up, he held them scoreless over 2+ innings. Again, that's only one appearance, but it showed that he can be effective in that role. I honestly don't expect Albers, Sarfate or Gabino to make the team (unless they look great in spring training) and I think Berken will be headed to AAA. We're in agreement on Mickolio and Johnson (as well as Hendrickson). Meredith is a good ground ball pitcher and he's a good guy to have just because he gives a different look to batters. Gonzalez is a tough, competitive guy and he has had success in the past. Now we'll see how he fares in the AL East, but there's no real indication that he will succeed or fail, but then again, we didn't have that with Sherrill either.

Everyone is throwing up the Millwood will fail claims, but in his starts against the AL East (minus Baltimore) last year, he put up an ERA of just under 3.00. Do I expect that from him in the coming year? No. But I don't expect him to implode either. Do you think a 4.15 ERA is crazy for him?

I don't expect Guthrie to be 2007/2008 Guthrie, but I think the true Guts is somewhere between that and last year (a year in which he came into the season unprepared because of the WBC), which would be about a 4.35 ERA or so.

I think Bergesen had an exceptional rookie season, but I don't expect him to have the same success this year. But even if his ERA goes up a full point, that's only a 4.43 ERA.

Matusz looked to be improving every time he went out, even as you could tell he was tiring towards the end of the year. His final ERA for the season was 4.63. Yes, I'm expecting an improvement there of 0.5, giving him an ERA of 4.13.

I think Tillman will improve as well, and though I don't expect a Matusz performance out of him, I don't see where a 4.90 ERA (again, an improvement of 0.50 runs) is out of the question.

Now, if you average out those ERAs, you get something below a 4.50, so I don't see how thinking that ERA is unobtainable.

I referred to myself as following the team closely only because you asked the question about fans who do not follow the team closely. I don't know about you, Gil. Maybe you are scouring mlbtraderumors, fangraphs, baseball america, milb.com and other sites every day like I do. Like I said, I don't know how much you're investing as far as reading up on the team.

And in regards to MacPhail, he said at the end of last year that this coming year you should notice a change in the win-loss column. If you don't then you have every right to question him, but as I said, you can't question a failed season before it has been played.

Oh my!

Of course you'll see a 'change in the win-loss column'. they won 64 games last year Chris....... 64!

AM has set you and others up to the point where 70 wins will look like a HUGE improvement! I can see AM and people like you celebrating now......

He has totally set you and others Chris! The team was so bad....... I mean SO BAD in 2009 that you'll be happy when there's an improvement in 2010.

No 'proof to be so negative'? Huh Chris... I mean Huh? Are we talking about the baltimore orioles? No proof?

Man, the warehouse sure does have long arms.....

wayne -

I'll say this once and be done. I've read a lot of what you've written in the past. It's the same thing over and over and over with nothing new or interesting on your part.

So, please, don't bother addressing me because after this, I won't be responding to anything you write.

Nice analysis of the starters, Chris. You're the first one to put up actual expected numbers and why you expect them. (And I like that you didn't go too crazy with any of our expected five.) Considering how long this debate has been going, someone should have done that a long time ago.

Thinking a bit more about the young starters brings me to another point though...

If Matusz, Tillman and Bergesen are going to be expected to fill three fifths of the rotation, this team had better have two or three guys who can serve as solid spot starters in case one or more of the aforementioned trio gets hurt or tires at the end of the year.

My suggestion?

1. Erik Bedard. Obviously. We've only been talking about him for several months. Bring Bedard back on a low base + incentives for 2010 along with an $8-9M option for 2011. When he's ready, which will probably be sometime in mid to late August, shut down whichever of the young trio needs to be shut down. If they're all going strong, move Guthrie to the bullpen. Then give Bedard the last few weeks of the 2010 season to try out for 2011.

2. Mark Hendrickson. Come on, Andy. He's cheap, he can start and pitch out of the pen and he wants to be here. What's the hold up? Start him in the bullpen and then move him into the rotation if one of the youngsters needs to be shut down.

3. Noah Lowry. He hasn't pitched since 2007 and who knows if he's actually healthy, but if he is, he could be a nice rotation piece for years to come. Start him off at Norfolk and bring him up at the end of the year if one of the young guys needs to be shut down. If he forces your hand, move Guthrie to the pen and bring him up.

In short, this team needs some capable reinforcements. Sign those three pitchers and then bring in LaRoche to play first and Delgado to DH. Then trade Scott for a capable middle reliever or a couple of high ceiling prospects.

Oh, and here are a couple of relief pitchers this team should be looking at:

- Seth McClung: Only 29, can start and relieve.

- Kiko Calero: A bit of an injury risk, but should come at a discount because of that.

No problem whatsoever,

I could care less if you read my post. Means nothing to me. What I do care about is the fact that many, many more people have woken up to the fact that the warehouse and their peeps are feeding the fans bs year in and year out. As you can see...... people are fed up, with post like yours now in the minority.

You call people names, you say they're stupid.... all the while preaching the warehouse theme. Then, you say people like me say the same thing over and over when it's YOU in fact, who keeps saying the same thing over and over and over.

The difference is Chris, your over and over is never about reality. Your hype simply becomes a rehash of the previous year. It never stops!

Next year this time, maybe you'll come on as Chris from Hawaii or maybe under a new name. Either way, you'll be singing the same ole tune.

Gil doesn't need me ever to speak up for him, but try to refrain from calling anything he says, 'stupid'. Just because you memorize every baseball site imaginable, it doesn't mean you can shine his shoes when it comes to anything he speaks of..... You know why? Because he speaks from experience! He not only talks about what he sees, but he has shared experiences that help define the orioles demise. Unique experiences you won't get from reading baseball america.

Don't care if you respond...... It would be the same thing said over and over again anyway.

Thanks, not brooks.

I'm definitely on board with Bedard (though I think he'll be able to start sooner than August, I like your reasoning) and Hendrickson. I'd agree that you need to make sure you have a team option for 2011 on Bedard. I'll have to check out Lowry, but if he'll sign a minor league contract and he can start in Norfolk, then I don't see a reason why he wouldn't be a good pick-up. Right now I have the Norfolk rotation looking like Arrieta, Erbe, Patton and Berken, so he'd have a space there.

If we signed Calero or McClung, I think either Mickolio or Hernandez would go back to AAA, which would be fine. If Hernandez goes back, I'd assume he'd take one of the starting rotation spots there (I'd assume since he hasn't pitched since 2007 Lowry might not mind earning a starting role at AAA). If Mickolio goes back, they might try to start grooming him as a closer as opposed to just a reliever. With Mickolio there Norfolk would have not just a good rotation, but a pretty solid bullpen next year with him, Perrault, Perez and Lebron.

"Then, you say people like me say the same thing over and over when it's YOU in fact, who keeps saying the same thing over and over and over."

wayne -

We're all saying the same thing over and over. And if any of us ever says anything different, it's just a different spin of the same thing that was said the day before.

Oh man, not brooks.

I checked out Lowry and then realized who you were talking about. I'd wondered what happened to him. (A co-worker a few years ago who was a Giants fan would talk about him like O's fans talked about Bergesen last year, but that guy stopped working here and I forgot Lowry's name)

What a tough break though! His wiki page said that his forearm injury, for which he had surgery may have been a mis-diagnosis. I'd be livid if I were him. My wife (who works for a certain work comp company) says that the O's have one of the best medical staffs in baseball. I imagine it helps that Hopkins is so close.

I wonder if Lowry can even still pitch without the missing rib...? Might take some getting used to first.

Chris -

According to his agent, he's 100% healthy.

Of course, that generally doesn't mean much. If an agent was trying to get a contract for a client, the client would be 100% healthy even if he was missing an arm. "Hey, I never said he had 100% of his body parts!"

Anyway, Lowry would be a solid low risk, high reward guy for any team that could snag him on a minor league deal.

not brooks,

Maybe Albers should come to camp missing a rib...

"YOU GUYS JUST TOLD ME TO LOSE SOME WEIGHT...YOU DIDN'T SAY HOW!"

I agree though, Lowry's definitely worth a shot. If he could make a comeback, whether it be in Baltimore or anywhere, it'd be a great story.

Chris,

I don't see it as an impasse, we just have different ways to look at the possibilities for success next year. NB touched on some of my thoughts in that we will get 6 innings on average out of Tillman, Matusz and Bergensen and they will need to be buttressed by solid middle relief. I have a feeling that the staff that goes North may look different than what all of us think due to injuries and Spring training performances.

I think Millwood will do Ok but I think his abilty to stabilze a young rotation and be "the man" are somewhat overrated. I think he pitches a lot of innings and goes, say, 10 and 16 with a lot of no decisions due to lack of run support. But he will take the ball every 5th day and will be pitching in the 8th inning of games that the Orioles are down by 3 or 4 runs, and that will atke some wear and tear off the bullpen.

I do read a lot of national media, not only sports. They are wrong as much as they are right, and tend to parrott things they have heard rather than seen. Take Nolan Reimold, for instance. There were and still are a lot of scouts not sold on him. Those opinions tended to bleed into the national blogs opinions over time.

You know the issues I have with the organization and Andy Macphail. Among other things I thought that, heading into his 4th season next year, he would make some dramatic improvements to the talent level on the field this offseason, by acquiring a big right handed bat and a top of the rotation starter.

The Orioles may still make some moves before the season starts but it will be typical Macphail...sloppy seconds and bargain hunting, and it drives me crazy when he could have made things so much more interesting next year.

Chris, if there is one bit of advice I could give you from and old guy, try not to cut off the lines of communication with people on the blog. I have been called a lot of names but I still "talk' to those individuals. I know Wayne gets under your skin but it's his opinions you don't like, not the man.

Well, Not Brooks wants a 500 post blog and we are three quarters of the way there. What do you say we keep going.

Gil,

I'm totally willing to keep this going, though to get to 500, that means 30 more posts each from you, me, wayne and not brooks. Plus three posts from anonymous.

We can probably get there by next week.

What do you think about not brooks' suggestions of signing Bedard and Hendrickson plus some of the other guys he mentioned? I know you're on board with Hendrickson.

Also, I hope you don't think I was saying that you are stupid before. I think you know I don't think that, but I just wanted to make sure.

Chris,

Not Brooks always has good ideas. I am leery about Bedard due to the nature of labrum surgery but if he comes to spring training and looks healthy I think it could work out to be a stealthy, great move.

Chris, I know Mark Hendrickson, not as my best friend, but I coached in the York County semi pro league League when he pitched up here for Manchester Township in the Susquehenna League. He was a local High School all Star but even at 6'10" he blends in and moves about with little attention. Did you know that he also played in the NBA? As NB said he would make a great long reliever and a functional spot starter. I know Macphail is hoping to get something better toward Spring Training, but Mark could help the team and I hope they bring him back.

Hey it's all good on the blog and you are one of the good guys. Let's get NB his 500 posts before he drifts over to the "Dark Side", where Wayne and I reside. Ha Ha

Chris... someone I know well is in the same line of work. TOS (this rib thing) is highly controversial and many cases in peoples head (similar to Fibromyalgia). But, it is very profitable to WC attorney's and the shady doctors that they refer business to. I think Jeff Gordon was considering the same procedure for his back.

Worse is I can't listen to Bruce Laird anymore because of his association with Multi-specialty Healthcare. Walk in with a sprained ankle, straight to surgery! Just like drug dealers and the government, they get you hooked (pain meds, easy money) and make you dependent on them. A lot of claimants are on more pain meds than Michael Jackson, enough prescriptions to take down a heard of elephants. He has the same mindset those people do, stick it to the rich guy. He is unlistenable on the Monday AM QB. He clearly resents the modern players and their money, like he resents insurance companies and big evil corporations.

To sum up Lowry- he's probably a head case. Rib or no Rib. He had surgery to cut into his muscle to relieve pressure???

Sham -

Lowry is probably a headcase because of his injury history? What?

Gil -

I've already got the one black glove, like Luke Skywalker in Episode Five. People keep making Michael Jackson comments though...

Not Brooks,

I am still hoping that Andy Macphail has at least two moves left. I don't think he is thinking trade so we pretty much know who the usual remaining suspects are.

I don't feel like bitching today. If he indeed is done, where do you think that puts us in Wins and losses in 2010 from a high and a low range?

Gil -

I never like predicting wins and losses for a baseball team. The season is just way too long and there are way too many variables to consider. Look at last year's team, for example: I doubt Jeremy Guthrie is as bad as he was in 2009. I also doubt that he's as good as he was in 2007/2008. If his 2009 performance had fallen in between what it actually was and what it was in '07/'08, the O's could have won five or six more games.

That said, I'll make a prediction anyway. Two predictions, in fact, with two different scenarios in mind. Here we go...

Scenario 1: Matusz, Tillman and Bergesen struggle. 68-70 wins.

Scenario 2: MacPhail makes no more significant moves. Matusz, Tillman and Bergesen excel. 78-80 wins.

(With those in mind, I think that adding a solid first baseman and a solid reliever would put the "Best Case Scenario" team over .500)

Not Brooks,

Your last thought + big right handed bat = 85+ wins and 100,000 increase in attendance.

But I promised not to bitch today.

I say if there are no more significant moves and Tillman and Matusz get a little better, while Bergesen doesn't do quite as well, I agree with 78-80 wins. I think if those two get a little better and Bergesen maintains, 81-83 wins.

I expect Atkins to at least equal the output of Mora offensively (coming off a horrible BABiP), but if Crow can help him find his swing again, that'd be great. Hopefully we see Bell and Snyder up and ready around the All-Star Break, but I'd be satisfied with one of them coming up then and contributing and then seeing the other around September. Bell put up good power numbers (9 HRs in 33 games) in Bowie, but then again, so did Snyder before going to that power draining park in Norfolk.

My wildcard prediction is the same as it is every year: the O's go 80-81 with one postponed game not made up because it has no effect on the post-season.

The other thing I'd really like to see for this team is the lifting of the facial hair restrictions. This isn't the military, it's baseball.

MLB facial hair restrictions bother me.

I wonder when the teams that enforce such rules are going to realize that their employees are playing a game for a living...

Chris,


I was out driving around on business a little while ago and Ken Singleton was on one of the local Sports talk shows.
He thinks the Orioles are doing the right things. He follows the team closely and knew the names of all of the prospects. He is very high on Josh Bell and the young pitchers. He said the Orioles have a very tough road because of the big spenders in "the toughest division in baseball". He thinks the Orioles will jump over the Blue Jays this year, as you have predicted.


Gil -

I think it's become fairly obvious that Chris is Ken Singleton.

Not Brooks,

My God, you're right! He is calling all of the local shows and propping up the team.

What "Singleton" had to say was almost word for word from his posts.

Chris, you devil, you!

Hey, don't blow my cover!

Seriously though, the facial hair rules need to be brought down!

The thing is, if we build and we have a core of 6-8 great young players, then we can contend for years to come (dynasty anyone?) and we won't have to worry about them declining due to age. I'd rather wait another year or two to have that than just a winning for a year or two. I'm not saying I think that is what is going to happen, I'm just saying... you know.

I think in the next few years, there's gonna be a shift and you'll see the Yankees fall hard when their old guys start breaking down, while the Red Sox hang will around near the top because their player development is so good. The O's will rise above the Rays (I believe in the long run we'll be able to outspend them easily once OPACY gets going again) and depending on how the crop of young guys the Jays just got perform and how their new GM runs the team, they'll be up there too, it'll just take a few more years because they're looking like the 2007 O's right now.

Chris -

Forget about the team for a minute. Now that your true identity is out in the open, I think we should figure out who everyone else is.

I'm not going to blow my own cover, but I'm going to guess that Gil is actually Leo Gomez and wayne is actually Jay Tibbs. And Keith Rowe, who claims to use his real, full name, is none other than the immortal Chito Martinez.

PS -

I think you're right about the Yankees. I might take three or four more years, and depending on what happens with Jeter and Rivera, it could be even worse. Spending $160M on six or seven 35 to 40 year olds could be pretty painful.

Maybe their future will be brighter than it looks if they end their reign of terror against facial hair.

not brooks,

I think it's fairly obvious that you are Doug DeCinces. And while I was almost certain that wayne was Leo Mazzone, Jay Tibbs makes sense. What do you think about SHAMROCK being Larry Bigbie?

I swear I'm gonna bring a sign with me when I go to OPACY this year that reads "Bring Back Facial Hair!"

Shamrock is probably Bigbie. I wonder if he's still in Japan...

I'm also pretty sure that jason c in south florida is Albert Belle. That dude gets angry.

Oh, and Birdland Todd is obviously Todd Frohwirth

I was thinking jason c is just Jason Campbell taking out his weekly frustrations on the internet. Either that or Armando Benitez, but Belle is a good pin.

Totally on board with the Frohwirth reference.

jim66 would like us to think he's Palmer, but we know he's actually Mark Belanger.

Not Brooks,

Shamrock actually thinks Wayne is Brian Roberts. Chris, Mark Belanger is dead, and you know that, you were in town with the other ex orioles for the funeral. I think Wayne is Jay Gibbons. Pete Rose, and jim66 is George Will.

NB, I think you are Vin Scully.

Hey Chris,

Ahh, Belanger aka "The Splendid
Splinter II"...You could live with him at short in the days of good pitching and the 3 run hr.
I did play short growing up. Had a Zoilo Versailles model MacGregor infielders glove. Still have it, though it's worse for the wear and tear.
Even worked out pretty well for softball.

I looked in the coffin... it's empty!

I can jump back in to help get to 500.

To see wayne chide someone for calling someone else's ideas stupid; I need some warning before I read things like that. There are sharp edges on my desk I could hit when I fall out of my chair laughing. I value Gil's opinions a lot too, but of all people to call someone out on that...

Anyway, too funny.

not brooks,

Forget about facial hair, MLB needs more Troy Polamalu hairstyles. That way we can watch them try to hang onto their helmet like Manny does. $25MM and he still can't make himself not look ridiculous.

jim66,

My first glove was also a MacGregor, and it was a Gus Bell model. My father started taking me to Memorial Stadium a couple times a week and after I saw Willy Miranda at shortstop, I got his model and played with it for years. Come to think of it, that's probably why I could never hit the breaking ball.

James C.,

Do you remember Oscar Gamble's hairdo? If you don't, google it and see if you can find a picture. He stuffed a small batting helmet over a gigantic afro and the result was indescribeable.

To entertain ourselves on the way to 500, I would like to hear your nominations for the All Time Ugly team for Major League baseball. And everybody else's for that matter.

My first nomination is Travis Haffner, with Honorable mention to Andy Etchebarren.

I don't know about the All Time Ugly Team, but Otis Nixon should definitely make the All Time Old Man Looking Team.

And if you take Sammy Sosa now, he's a lock for the All Time Ugly Team.

Also, Mark McGwire looks like he's wearing a f***ing creepy-@$$ mask these days. His face gives me chills.

Chris,

Mcguire's appearance is the result of the rapid ageing that occurs after long term steroid abuse. His body was a 33 speed record that he turned up to 78 for at least 10 years. Did you read today that Canseco says both Mcguire and Larussa are lying?

Gil,

When I saw him interviewed by Costas on MLB last night, McGwire's face looked like it was injected with about a million CCs of Botox.

As much as Canseco's probably right, he just seems like an attention whore. Though I understand that in this case, he actually is relevant to the conversation, it just seems like he feels like he needs to make a statement anytime anyone opens their mouth so the media doesn't forget about him. How is it that Ricky Henderson (the Ricky Henderson's Ricky Henderson) comes off as having a tiny ego compared to these guys?

Chris,

I have steroid fatigue and there always seems to be another shoe to drop. Canseco continues to shoot off his mouth because he knows that no one wants to challenge him, they just want it to go away.

I have no doubt that there is more to the Mcguire and Larussa story. Larussa, in particular aggravates me because he is a very smart man. This act of innocence about what he knew that he puts on insults our intelligence.

There will be more revelations and if the 100 names ever come out Canseco may go for the the Pulitzer. Like most baseball fans, I need closure on this somehow.

Gil,

I'm with you on steroid fatigue. At this point, I don't even really care about what happened 10 years ago in baseball regarding steroids. I don't want to hear about it any more. As long as we make sure it doesn't happen again I'm good as done with it. Especially if it means I don't have to hear Canseco opening his trap anymore.

Now Ricky Henderson on the other hand... that guy knew how to talk a good game. I want a Ricky autobiography written completely in the third person called Ricky on Ricky by Ricky Henderson with a forward from Ricky Henderson.

Chris,

When I worked in Baltimore for a big Bank back in the 70's and 80's, one of our employees "dated" Rickey Henderson when he was in Baltimore for a series. I met him a few times and actually he seemed to be a nice person.

The way that"Rickey" talked about "Rickey" has always been strange. A bunch of us went to dinner in Little Italy in 1985 and he went with us. That is the way he talks. He said" I hope Rickey gets it done tomorrow"

Hey hey... Like Bigbie, I may be handsome, but I have more talent in my chosen profession than he ever had in baseball. Do I speak like someone easily duped by a 50 year old man-groupie/drug dealer from Dundalk?

Gil is really Tom Davis. Old, grouchy, likely got some booze in him.

Not Brooks is the freaky mutant love child of Bill James and Billy Beane.

Jason in FLA is really the crazy guy that sat in front of me at the 1-15 dolphins game in miami, mentally unstable and probably on steroids. Guy scared the crap out of me and his pattern of cheering was erratic and nonsensical.

Wayne is definitely Brian Roberts and all his pent up frustration.

The Wayne supporters are really Biff Tannen's pals that follow him around and support him in the BTTF Movies.

Lowry had a controversial surgery to correct something that is often a result of a psychological issue. TOS is a controversial Dx for people who don't know what wrong with themselves. It is now popular with WC attorneys and doctors used to get companies to settle.

Apparently Lowry admitted to having poor mechanical habits that led to his physical issues.

Notable patients

Major League Baseball players Matt Harrison, Hank Blalock, John Rheinecker, Jeremy Bonderman, Kenny Rogers, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and Noah Lowry[8] have recently been diagnosed with Thoracic outlet syndrome. Kenny Rogers was diagnosed several years earlier with TOS in the other upper extremity. Coincidentally, five of these seven players have played for the Texas Rangers. All-Star pitcher J. R. Richard suffered a career-ending stroke from an undiagnosed case of TOS. Pitcher David Cone had a variant case of TOS, with an arterial aneurysm of the upper aspect of his pitching arm.
Overhead athletes, such as swimmers and volleyball players, are known to be predisposed to the development of TOS.
Musician Isaac Hanson suffered a potentially life threatening pulmonary embolism as a complication to thoracic outlet syndrome.[9]

Wait...

The O's DIDN'T sign Chapman? Need to return my custom jersey!

400! 400! 400!

I think it was Weaver who said of Etchebarren...If there were co-captains of the All-Ugly team, he'd be both.

I think it was Weaver who said of Etchebarren...If there were co-captains of the All-Ugly team, he'd be both.

Posted by: jim66 | January 14, 2010 7:53 AM

That's FUNNY!!!
I miss Weaver. He sure told it like is.

Not Brooks,


Through a process of elimination I have deduced who Shamrock is. He is too young to be Peter Angelos, too smart to be John Angelos{plus he understands the game of baseball}, and has a sense of humor which eliminates Bill Stetka and Gred Bader.


He must be Bill Gates, because whenever I say something he does not like, my computer goes down.

Tough break, Gil.

Did you hear that, after the success of Windows 7, Bill Gates decided to buy the moon? From now on, all lunar eclipses will be accompanied by the Windows startup sound.

For starting pitcher of the All Ugly Team, I nominate John Lackey. Dude looks like a horse.

Not Brooks,

Great selection, he does have equine characteristics. For shorstop, I nominate Woodie Held, who played middle infield for the Yankees, A's, Indians and Orioles in the 50's and 60's. I got his autograph at Memorial stadium before a game in 1965 or 1966.

He resembled Freddy Kruger, but he had some pop. I think he hit over 20 home runs for the Indians several times. jim66 would probably remember him.

Keep hope alive!

Gil...

Thats a lesson for you... watch what you post... THE CONSEQUENCES COULD BE DIRE!!!!!!!!!

Actually, I'm Mitt Romney. Handsome, conservative and I know my sh!t.

SHAMROCK,

My son got the red ring of death on his X-Box tonight. Tell me you had nothing to do with it.

Uh-oh Gil, you better just move all your household appliances out of your home before they start taking over the joint.

Chris,

What did you think about the Laroche deal?

Hey Gil,

Awww. You didn't see? I posted yesterday on it, but I'll paste it here.

______________________________

Well, even I was getting a little restless when I saw that LaRoche is off the table. It's hard to look at the deal that he got and not think that we could have beat that. You could say that LaRoche stands to face weaker pitching over the course of the year, which given his contract situation, would make Arizona a more viable option as far as playing for next year's contract. Regardless, I think this is one of those instances where having a GM who holds his cards close to his vest hurts the fans more than it hurts the team. I'm not saying that the team as it stands wouldn't be better with LaRoche (I believe it would be), but at this point, if you go out there and say, "We offered him $7 million" (I'm not saying they did), it will most likely hurt future negotiations with any other player you may go after.

Ultimately the fans are the ones taking the hit, being left in the dark. Maybe MacPhail has something up his sleeve, but it's hard to speculate at this point. It's up to him to show us by doing.

With the signing of LaRoche, the best offensive option now seems to be playing Atkins at 1st and signing a good defensive guy to hold down 3rd base until Bell is ready, while also signing either Delgado (if healthy, fingers crossed) or Thome to take the DH role (and #4 spot in the lineup).
____________________________

I think Tejada might be an option too, but it all depends on what he wants. Crede might be the best defensively... if he's healthy. He wouldn't be too hard to jettison if Bell is ready some time during the season. I think that it's almost to the point though where you're gonna have to sign someone to replace Scott who can hit in the 4 spot and the only guys out there that can do that are Thome and Delgado. LaRoche wouldn't have been a 4 spot option anyway.

Hey Gil,

I wrote my initial reaction yesterday, but right now, I really wanna see what Rhyne Hughes can do in the majors. He's got good defense and some power (32 HR between AA & AAA last year). He strikes out A LOT, but then again, so does LaRoche (admittedly not as much as Hughes). I think Hughes gets forgotten about most of the time, probably because of his strike out numbers. Basically, he seems like Waring with better D and more power. Over a full season in the majors, he might hit 30 HR and strike out 175 times. I would never bat him cleanup, but I wouldn't bat LaRoche cleanup either.

Oh, and I think Michael Aubrey in 2010 might be the equivalent of Luis Hernandez in 2008 (remember when he hit like .300 at the end of 2007 and everyone thought he could be our new SS?) ... but who knows.

I do like that Aubrey kind of looks like Danny McBride aka Kenny Powers.

Hey Gil,

I wrote my initial reaction yesterday, but right now, I really wanna see what Rhyne Hughes can do in the majors. He's got good defense and some power (32 HR between AA & AAA last year). He strikes out A LOT, but then again, so does LaRoche (admittedly not as much as Hughes). I think Hughes gets forgotten about most of the time, probably because of his strike out numbers. Basically, he seems like Waring with better D and more power. Over a full season in the majors, he might hit 30 HR and strike out 175 times. I would never bat him cleanup, but I wouldn't bat LaRoche cleanup either.

Oh, and I think Michael Aubrey in 2010 might be the equivalent of Luis Hernandez in 2008 (remember when he hit like .300 at the end of 2007 and everyone thought he could be our new SS?) ... but who knows.

I do like that Aubrey kind of looks like Danny McBride aka Kenny Powers.

I couldn't find the Simpsons clip where Bill Gates and his goons shutdown Homer's gossip website...

Gil,

My first 'autographed model' glove was a Curt Simmons. I distinctly remember
it being a bit too big, and never being able to completely break in that glove.
It had more of a crease than a pocket...

Has anyone ever had a glove restored?

Woody Held, yea! Though I barely remember his APBA card. You think anyone aspired to be the next Woody Held? Was there a Woody Held fan club? Were the girls lined up waiting for Woody? Was Woody livin' large, livin' for free?

BTW...If I'm George Will, Wayne gotta be Rush Limbaugh. Rush speaks only the truth, correct?

C'mon, it's all in fun. No one is living or dying 'cause the O's are winning or losing.

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About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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