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January 1, 2010

Baez lands on his feet

I'm sure there are a lot of Orioles fans who are surprised to hear that reliever Danys Baez reportedly has signed a two-year deal with the two-time defending National League champion Philadelphia Phillies.

Baez got a lot of money from the Orioles three years ago and delivered just one decent season in middle relief. But he obviously showed enough promise during his comeback season last year to convince the Phillies he can be a top-flight setup guy for them in 2010.

That wouldn't surprise me. The guy has good stuff and he'll be another year removed from the serious arm injury that cost him the 2008 season. He was hard to watch here, but it'll be even more galling to watch him help the Phillies win another division title.

Radio, radio: If you just can't take another college bowl game -- I mean, there are only 34 of them this year -- tune in to WBAL (1090 AM) or WBAL.com at noon to The Week in Review with me, Kendel Ehrlich and Clarence Mitchell IV.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 10:03 AM | | Comments (219)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

Pete, As with many things in life...it takes as many or more good moves to counter bad ones. I think a great story would be to chronicle the orioles fall dating back to the Eddie Murray trade, just to see how far the O's have gone rutterless. It may take some work, but to see the moves that made us better and the moves that made us worse and grade each one. Then readers would understand how big a job ressurecting the Orioles actually is.

Can Holliday play 1st???

When teams win pennants, it is because they have had years of making good decisions....once they start winning, they then often start making not so good decisions....
this one will turn out badly...Baez even when he was healthy was overrated..

Its bad when the most exciting time of the year (for the past 10 years), is the off season checking to see if the orioles are ever going to sign any top notch starting pitchers or hitters.

The heck with Baez, I can't wait for the Siskel and Eberts of the blog, jim66 and bob c. to get on and bitch about basically anything anybody posts. They are the conscience of the blog.

.

Seriously Pete?


I wish him good luck in Philly. I have a feeling the fans will be a lot less forgiving than we were when he blew leads. You know, being Philly and all.

I'm not sad to see him go, though.

Apparently the Phillies front office types forgot about that 450 foot laser Baez served up to Ryan Howard back in June. I can't say the O's are the poorer for getting this guy off their hands.

Should have traded him when we had the chance.........I will say this though; All of the people that frustrated the living hell out of me for the past 5 years are finally off the team. If you look at the roster, with a few exceptions like some of the woeful relief pitchers we have, nobody on the team is from the most recent generation of orioles (except Brian Roberts), but he never frustrated me as much (except when he pops out). This will officially be the first year we dont have mora, baez, millar, and ray on the team.

oh wait...i forgot about izturis................here's to 2011!

How do we not have a quality SS prospect in our system? I would bet if we had a revolving door at SS with prospects alone we could get better production than 2 HR and 50 RBI....whatever, thats for another post.

okay, so like everyone except izturis is left. Has to be better this year.......good riddance to baez and the rest that sucked A$$ in our colors.

Baez is good in non-pressure situations. That is the best thing I can say about him. Good luck.

The Yankee's made a "WTF?" move by trading for Javy Vasquez. So now the two defending league champs aquired two guys for pivitol roles who snap in pressure situations.

It might mean nothing now, but it could later in the season. I guess the Yankee's forgot about 2004.

much like the rest of the O's Baez was so good at times, and so awful at others.

The Phillies are a winning organization with top notch talent evaluators. They added Baez now because they feel he has completed his rehabbing in Baltimore and is prepared to assume an effective role in their bullpen.
I think it is a low risk high reward on their part.

Seriously, wayne.

In his first 18 games of 2007, Baez pitched to an ERA of 3.12, an opponents BA of 150, a WHIP under one. He was the most successful of the new relievers.

Unfortunately, the Orioles were under a manager who was to the pitching staff what the Blob was to Steve McQueen's little village.

Baez, Ray, Shuey, Williamson et al were mis-utilized and abused to the point that they should have considered legal action. Then we find out Baez was pitching with a torn ligament. No wonder his season went into the toilet.

He got his arm fixed, and as last season went on, he became one of the better set up men in the business. From 1 August to the end, his ERA was 3.18, opponents BA was .207, his WHIP again under one and the Orioles, a 98 loss team, were 12-11 in his appearances. Plus, by all accounts, he is a true gentleman who would take the ball under any circumstances. So, of course, let's run him out of town!!!!!

And to underscore just how absolutely ridiculous many of you are, the Phillies, coming off two straight WS, think he can be a viable piece of their bullpen. I like to believe the Phillies know what they are doing.


Ken,

I have no issue with Baez Ken!

It's just sad that in lieu of news that may help the Orioles, it's always news about yet another team.

And so it goes!.

ken -

The Phillies also signed a 34-year-old second baseman to play third base for three years.

And last year, they signed a 37-year-old left fielder for three years.

No doubt they've been a winner for the past few years, but Ruben Amaro is certainly a benefactor of several solid moves by the Ed Wade (can't believe I'm mentioning him) and Pat Gillick administrations in Philly. And Amaro's moves, while complementary in nature, don't look nearly as good.

I wonder what the Phils are going to do when they don't want to pay Jayson Werth after 2010 and can't afford to keep both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins after 2011...

Pete,

When are the Phillies going to announce Mike Flanagan's new administrative role?
Only Flanagan would give Polanco a 3 year huge deal to move to 2nd. And now his buddy Danys to a multi-year deal for an amount that will again make the rest of baseball gms to drop their jaw.

The best thing about this deal from a big O's fan like me is we can not possibly have him to worry about next year. He didn't have a high ERA because he allowed other pitchers runners to score. This is addition by subtraction.

Pete,

keep up the good work. Rarely
miss your blogs.

AM continues to be Angelos'
lackey and Angelos hates us
Orioles fans because he knows
we hate him.

I think the best news out of the Baez signing is that it probably takes Mike McDougal off the Phillies plate and gives the O's a legitimate shot at signing him to complement Mike
Gonzalez as a right-handed closer.

The Yankees and Red Sox live off cheap home runs so let's go get a guy who keeps the ball on the ground late in the game. Leave Holliday and Boras for the suckers. Continue to focus on the pitching!

Gil:

Why is it that you like to set up straw men. It usually is the first sign of someone who has little of anything intelligent to say for themselves and I know that not to be true of you.

I have disagreements with you and other posters, but you turn that into me being against anybody and anything and try to cast me as the "conscience of the blog." That's silly and you know it. How old are you again. 65 or so. Do you think it might be time to grow up and have an adult discussion.

bob c.,

It was a joke and I said so on the previous blog after I wrote this one .I said I said I think the world of you and jim66 and would not joke with people who can't take one.


It's all coming together.

With Baez now officially not returning, Guthrie now has a clear shot at working out of the bullpen.
He and Hendrickson set up for Mike Gonzalez.
We sign Bedard and, together with Bergesen, Millwood, Matusz, and Tillman, finally have a balanced R-L-R-L-R starting rotation.
We use Jim Johnson along with Jones, Scott, and Hernandez to acquire Adrian Gonzalez.
Then we sign Holliday to start in LF, Pie plays CF, Nick in RF, and Reimold can mostly DH.

Gil,

Man, what a disgrace.......

Even though you present your opinions respectfully and carefully, you nevertheless get attacked by closed minded warehousers.

Just know Gil.... when someone insults you, it's usually due to their own insecurities and shortcomings.

You're a good man Gil!

So some people in here are actually mad we let baez go? Of course the phillies are going to take him, hes probably half as cheap as he was with the orioles. I mean for 8Mil a year he sucked you-know-what. For 8 mil a year I would keep Tejada. For 8 Mil a year I would pay for 2 or 3 younger and probably just as effective pitchers. For 8 mil a year, I would buy airtime on espn. the last thing I would do is pay that to some dude who is "aight."

I'll say this though, watching pathetic teams like the orioles my whole life certainly gives me a solid perspective on cash management. I think its something I can apply to my own business. At least something good came from having my soul continually beaten into submission.

Hi Wayne,

Happy New Year to you.

bob c., is not one of the Andy Macphail sycophants and Oriole employees who blog here. There are only a few of those and I guess if my job depended on supporting the boss and the company line I might do the same. I have figured out who they are and I think you have too. Hint: they don't post under real names but under certain monikers.

Since those few are blind to objectivity I pay no attention to anything they say and just like to get on their nerves. They give themselves away because if you don't agree with them you are automatically an idiot, a dope, or a hater

Most of the people who post here who agree with the "plan" are honest, serious Oriole fans.

bob c. is one of the people who want to see the plan given a chance to succeed. He is an old Toronto Blue jays fan who watched an expansion team come to Toronto in 1977 and suffered as the Blue jays lost 105 games their first few years. Bob likens the current Oriole situation to the Blue jays expansion team and macphail the Blue jays first GM , Pat Gillick to andy Macphail.

Under Pat Gillick, the Blue Jays slowly improved through the development of young talent and within 8 years won their first divison title. You know the rest. Do the names lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield, and George bell ring a bell to you?

Where bob c. and the Plan Believers and I part ways is macphail's strategy. This was not an expansion team when Macphail got here, like Toronto, and there was absolutley no reason to allow the major laegue team to further degrade and lose nearly 100 games a year while focusing entirely on player development. There are no guarantees that the rebuilding plan will provide winning reults unless proven major league talent is introduced. This is not 1954 or 1977 and the paradigm has changed.


In my book, Macphail gets an "A+ for player development and prospect acquisitions but an"F" for not making a serious attempt to keep the major league team competitive during his rebuilding efforts.

It was never a zero sum game but that is the way Andy Macphail sold it, and that is why I think he has shortchanged Oriole fans while pursuing his own agenda come hell or high water.

Gil,

Thanks much for the scouting report...

And yes, I do believe I know who most of the warehousers are, although they're scrambling lately, knowing people are on to them.

As for your analysis of AM's strategy, I very much agree, although I believe he does get too much credit for the current crop.

I was thinking..... As polarizing as Mike Preston can be, I'd love to have someone like him following the Orioles. Instead of following the company line, it would be nice to have someone who would help keep the O's honest. It really does work in other cities. Problem is, the Ravens never attempt to intimidate the media, allowing for Preston types.

I'd never want to replace Pete S mind you (I think Pete is great, although I get under his skin)..... Maybe just an opposing voice from time to time though.

Happy New Year Gil!

Gil...

Shamrock is a nickname I got from work friends. I am not telling you who I really am, nor does it really matter that I use my real name on a silly baseball blog as long as I am not recklessly spreading rumors or threatening people. I am not a curmudgeon either, I am only 29. A curmudgeon is miserly, or ill tempered, typically elderly.

I like to rationally look at the state of the club. There is a lot of promise, the past 12 years of losing have sucked, AM is the right guy for the job and has done reasonably well to date. The club is getting national recognition for its efforts and while wins haven't happened just 2 years in, it is coming soon. I have a good 60 years of baseball ahead of me, its not going anywhere.

You are right, it is not a zero sum game (or was that wayne) in that they can add players in the interim. I would have LOVED to see Tex and others here. Given the mess that was here in 2007, who is signing with a last place club in the early stages of a rebuilding effort??? Who was signing here in 2008/2009 when AM is trading all expendable talent? No one. Easier talked about than done.

The problem with the "haters" and "dopes" and "idiots" on this page is that they offer nothing constructive to the conversation. Same negative/paranoid rants over and over and over. Talk baseball. Its like the little twerp kid that sat behind my at the BAL/NYJ game in the Meadowlands. Just sat there and said "Ravens Suck" "Ray Lewis is gay" "Ray Lewis is a Murderer" the entire freakin' game, it got old fast.


I called Wayne a dope when he mocked my idea of built to last not meaning winning. I want a a run of O's baseball like '65-'84. They had a shot every year. That is built to last. Built to last isn't signing below average free agents for the sake of appeasing fans with a .500 season that they will still complain about.

So from my fellow conspirators/kool aid drinkers/Warehousers at the Warehouse, I apologize for the last 12 years of ineptitude and for ruining your lives. Keep in mind it is just baseball, try to not let it get to you. I do not to dwell on the past, as there is nothing you can do to change it. If you think AM is doing more of the same, you have problems.

Wayne,

The local coverage is not purely objective because "the Sun" has no competition" and the Bob Maisels, the Phil Jackmans, the John Steadmans are gone. The lone major newspaper in the town rightly allocates it's dwindling assets to the major local sports franchise that is generating fan interest... and that franchise does not begin with an "O" .

I hope that none of the younger generation are gullible enough to turn on MASN and think that the coverage of the Orioles is objective.

On the radio Oriole sportscasters used to have the freedom to tell the truth, starting with Ernie Harwell, Herb Carneal, Bob Murphy, and John Miller. John Miller was the last who told the truth. He got fired by Peter Angelos as a result.

Hi Wayne,
You keep insisting in calling people who see the O's progress and like Macphails plan and see the O's being more competitive even as early as this year....you like to dismissively refer to them as "warehousers" (which would be those on the inside). That's fine, but I hope you don't mind being referred to in the future as the "outhousers"....I think that fits....those on the outside who are obsessed with how stinky the team has been for 12 years. You my friend can be the leader of the outhousers. Lead with pride my friend!!!!

Gil,

Perfectly said!

Sham,

You simply don't like views you don't agree with. That's cool! No reason to call people names though... And try being less defensive... It'll set you free!

Peter Angelos is playing flowers in the attic with us Oriole fans!!!

I think Baez was good here in Baltimore and its hard to blame him when the Orioles are such a dysfunctional mess. Dave Trembley can blow a game and make 10 relievers look like shit with no problem then eat a big mac for each one and blame everything on Felix Pie.

Bear the Birdfan,
Do you really think Guthrie would go to the pen? I doubt it if anything I think the O’s might just release him before that happens like D-Cab

Gil...

Interesting you bring up Toronto as an Expansion Franchise. (note-this is talking baseball) I disagree that the 2007 O's were in a much different situation. The difference is that the O's won't take 7 years from the start to be winners. After Gillick built the franchise from scratch, it took 7 years to get to 11 straight winning seasons, 5 play off appearances (would have won 3 wild cards). I would be ecstatic for that run from 2011-2023. A lot of the national baseball writers (Olney, Law, Stark) have them turning the corner in 2011.

For someone who likes to beat down the progress the team has made over the past two years, you sure have a high opinion of where the club was in terms of how quickly it could get back to winning. Like Toronto in the late 70's (Griffin ROY), the O's have some talent, therefore, they will improve quicker.

If it took Gillick 8 years to win division title, would it be fair to allow AM 4 years to get there? The future isn't solely staked to Matusz/Tillman/Arrieta, just like it shouldn't be staked to below-average/mid-level FA signings. The future of the club is the machine being built on the the farm and scouting to keep churning out talent to take the place of guys that don't pan out. The future of the team is in HS/College right now. While vastly improved, the farm system isn't overflowing with talent.

For all of you self-proclaimed old-timers, you should want to see a return to the "Oriole Way" and not the "Yankee Way" of buying everything that moves and building to win for a year or two. That works well in the short term, but not when it comes to spending $2 billion for a bunch of playoff disappointment.

Shamrock,

I wish I was 29 rather than 63. I find myself outside of the debate of who is the better Oriole fan. I don't demean Oriole fans who believe that we should tear it down and build it up again no matter long it takes. I just think that Macphail could come in a different door. We all want the same thing, it's just an issue of timing.

You may have missed it but last night among others I wished you good health and good fortune in 2010. Eventually, we will all have to come together.

Bear,

As crazy as you are on these blogs I 100% agree with your idea about:

"We use Jim Johnson along with Jones, Scott, and Hernandez to acquire Adrian Gonzalez.
Then we sign Holliday to start in LF, Pie plays CF, Nick in RF, and Reimold can mostly DH"


What people dont get is that last season may have been a moral victory to some O's fans but it was still a failure and we need a shakeup.

If we dont make some real moves its going to be just like last season. Yeah yeah we may have upgraded our pitching even though we dont fully know that yet but we still do not have a cleanup hitter and anybody to play 1st and 3rd. Its like we plugged one whole just to spring a leak elsewhere lol

The blog has become so divisive...Let us take our stand on one side or the other...
It must be...there is no middle ground
Warehouser or Outhouser???
What will it be? No, you can't choose the know nothing party...
A brief description of each is in order

Warehouser: one who
1.Doesn't believe Andy Macphail has deliberately lied to the fans....
2.Believes in the so called "plan" of rebuilding the organization at all levels and especially strengthening the minor league system and scouting. believes in building with starting pitching and not trading it away for a rental.
3.Believes AM has made some outstanding trades and some that are more of a wait and see but none that you could say "we've been taken"
4. Doesn't really care to go over and over and over the many mistakes the O's and Angelos have made over the past 12 years. We kind of get that.
5. Doesn't mind that Angelos is rich.
6. Believe that AM is a very good baseball man who didn't accidentally win 2 World Series as A GM. Doesn't believe baseball was so entirely different that a good executive can't adjust to a "new game"

Outhousers those who are
1. Obsessed with how bad the O's have been for 12 years and obsessed with those who say "get over it"
2. Believe that anyone who is excited about the coming season even if no more moves are made is someone who "accepts losing" is a "tool" a "busboy" or "delivers newspapers" (Jason)
3. Believes that if we don't offer Holliday more money than the next bidder it is proof positive that AM is trying to pull one over on us (lying again) and that Angelos won't let him spend the money even if he wanted to.
4. Believes the whole media (including our own Schmuck is afraid to speak too negatively about the team because they are .....sissy's? tools? or far worse I believe Gil says things involving knee pads?
5. thinks Sherrill was a great closer and we were robbed in that deal.
6. someone who thinks everyone but them accepts losing and will tolerate losing and will not hold the "warehouse asccountable". Only we , the outhousers want to WIN NOW WIN NOW.

The leaders of the warehousers shall be put to vote
I throw out jim 66 or Jeff

The leader of the outhousers should fight it out amongst themselves like the banana Republics and so forth. I tend to think that they think the whole voting thing might be for losers.
Perhaps they can have a contest to try to prove who hates losing the most and who despises Andy Macphail the most

Let the contest begin!!!!

I stand with warehousers. we have indoor plumbing and little tasty treats in the executive suites....
We welcome the outhousers to join us now....
but don't try to join in august when we are 8 games above 500 and gunning for a wild card... the door will be shut and
you will have to wallow in the stink

Go O's playoffs 2010!!!!


Gil,

One thing I will disagree with you on. You like to say to everyone that 'we all want the same thing'. I don't believe that's true.

Some posters are very accepting of more years of losing. In doing so, they are taking on the warehouse spin.

They don't want the same thing Gil. Not really! I really believe that!

............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think you could make the case, Wayne, that what you want would guarantee that the Orioles never win. You want to cut short another long-term plan, just like the last few regimes. I was an Angels fan for their first 40 years, I already know how that turns out.

Gil,

Somebody has to try and keep the commentators from outside the warehouse in line.

This is all pretty funny stuff.

Wayne, it's almost to the point where there may not be the right words to describe you.
I'll just say funny, and leave it at that. Don't need to get Barb all riled up!

not being defensive wayne, just trying to clear the airwaves so we can have some constructive baseball talk up in here.

I like to think I constructively argue with people who make sensible arguments that I do not agree with (not brooks is one), but at least they are reasonable. All this soap opera andy mcFAIL Peter Angelos losing on purpose conspiracy theory crap is worse than the Blood for Oil and 9/11 conspiracy crowd...

Just talk baseball. For example: "Baez could have been decent here, he had good stuff, but couldn't put it all together. Crummy signing by Flanagan that AM looks like he won't be prone to making"

Twist things all you want people. It makes for good content.

Read past post. read the book I wrote to llana. You may not agree with me, but you can't suggest I don't have a specific position.

Some of you say things like 'crummy signing by Flanagan that AM looks like he won't be prone to be making'. Huh? Excuse me? Hello? Do I really have to name the AM signings in 08' and 09'?

You see, when you say things like that, everything else becomes unlistenable. Do you hear yourselves sometimes?

Pete, where's your gong? Where's the big hook?

sorry Wayne can barely get through your current posts....do you really think anyone will look for an old one????LOL

Oh, and if there was a gong you think you would still be posting?

All that said Sham, the youtube file you sent yesterday is still hilarious. Send it again so people who missed it can check it out. Funny shxt!

bf, come on man, admit it. You're obsessed with my post. You read every one and you get so darn mad you can't contain yourself. How else can one explain your amazing wit. I can just see you pressing (send) thinking 'there, that'll shut em up'.

Come on bf... send another one. Hurry!

wayne, if he had one, rate your chances of still being on stage. I find it a small mental exercise to respond to your rhetoric.
One thing, I did notice more folks that like the AM plan are posting,
If you don't like the AM strategy, why would I expect you to like any of his signings?
All part of The Plan my friend. All part of The Plan...

wayne, you are crazy fun. You have these guys so riled up they can't stand it. jim66 is even counting the number of posters believing in the Plan. I wish you were on the radio. Whether people loved you or hated you, they would listen to you. You have these guys obsessed. lol

Wayne,

Dont waste your time on these people. They vanish as soon as the Orioles start doing bad anyway..

Yeah Wayne don't waste your time. I agree with that Ryan...but you think that's gonna stop him? C'mon, have a few laughs.

Trick question Wayne, he hasn't made any significant signings (unless you consider Adam Eaton significant). He also didn't give 19mil to a middle reliever coming off a bad season

NEWS FLASH

The Orioles will be supplying fans all year long with the drug special k to help enable them to watch the on the field atrocities!

Wayne,
If I were you I would be very…. very careful what you say on Pete’s blog. Remember what happens to people in this town that tell it how it is about the Orioles….

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Do tell. What happens to them? I've been criticizing the team since you were in short pants -- if you aren't right now -- and I'm still here.

Can we get a real shortstop at some point? I don’t think Cesar Izturis is terrible but he had whacky injuries constantly last year and bats low 200s. Also having guys like that on the team just shows your not really trying that hard. Most people think hes the guy who plays on the Angels with more talent and better stats.

Cesar Izturis has the L-virus and has infected the rest of the players, fans and management. They just lifelessly walk around mumbling

The….plan…….the..plan………..plan………………plan

Kind of like when Reggie Jackson has hypnotized in the naked gun movie

Get rid of Cesar Izturis?!?! But then there will be no Cesar Izturis T-Shirt night!!! I have that T-Shirt next to my collection of crappy stuff like the E.T. game for Atari.

Don, that is surely one of the funniest posts on the blog ever. Really, I cannot stop laughing.
Pete, what has the blog come to? Wayne now being warned against recrimination from evil forces in Baltimore? What is going on in that town? Is it safe to make the trip down this year? Hopefully this situation is cleared up by the time the Preakness arrives. Please advise.
Signed,
Worried Like Crazy in Connecticut

Now playing: Psycho Killer, Talking Heads.

Why even have T-Shirt nights at Camden Yards? Most people are too embarrassed to wear them and most of the players are gone the following year anyway lol

The solution to the T-shirt night mess is to give out T-Shirts of players of the more popular opposing team. Most other teams compete at the major league level and have major league experience and they stay on the team for more than 1-2 seasons.

Another solution would be to just give out Ponson T-Shirts every T Shirt night. That could be more of a direct and honest approach for Angelos to tell the fans f*** you this season instead of doing it silently by expensive food, bad baseball, no good players and more obvious indicators.

Qu'est Que C'est

Pete,
Baez landed on his feet but what about the Orioles? What if we lose even more this season? When do we know the plan is working?

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: As far as I'm concerned, if the Orioles win 63 games again this year, then I think it would be obvious the plan isn't working. But I don't know what number would indicate it definitely is working. Guess, you'll have to ask Wayne.

Don,

Good point!

Pablo,

Oh shucks!

Ryan,

You are so right my man! So right!

Terry,

Funny stuff!

Ponson,

Right?

Barb,

You're a great fan. Don't go away!

Gil,

Stay classy!

Jason,

You have the truth on your side!

sad fan,

We feel your pain!

Everyone,

Yes, it's about winning NOW! Is that so bad? Just f'ing win NOW... This year.... 2010!

81 WIns! No more losing seasons! No more! Stop it Now!

Just Stop It!

Gnight all! Carry on!

I'm sold - - - - 110% Why not win now? Why demand anything less? Good for you Wayne

Happy New Year Wayne, Gil and everyone who sincerely cares...... Actually, Happy New Year to those that don't care as well!

I'm sold too. Kindly seek professional help.
I'm kinda serious. 85%.
Nah, you're right. 110%.

This is a weird blog. Kinda of reminds me of Star Wars, where the emperor(Pete) just sits back and lets Luke Skywalker(believers) and Darth Vader(haters) fight it out. The only difference is, Pete's not evil. I can almost see him sitting there on his throne, cigar smoke swirling all around him as he watches all the chaos and carnage going on around him.

Frankly, I don't like being called a warehouser simply because I buy into the Plan. I haven't worked for the Orioles since I interned for them in college under the Roland Hemond administration and I had a few battles with certain members of the organization while working in radio. I even got to see Albert Belle threaten to kill Cal Ripken in the clubhouse. That was funny.

But I cut my teeth as a cub reporter in the early 80s, talking to and learning from people like Earl Weaver, Ray Miller, and many players from that era. And I got a chance to know many Orioles through the mid 90s, Palmeiro, Hoiles, Devereaux and more.

And that is why I believe in the plan. I saw first hand guys come up, to learn to play together, gain experience and gel into a team. And management spiked the club with good FAs and trades, like Bonilla, Alomar, Lowenstein, and more, and the Orioles were a power. Someone above mentioned that he wants them to go back to the way it was between '65 and '84, well, gentlemen, that's how they did it.

We all want a winner, but the mistakes of the past 12 years have almost made this team into an expansion team and MacPhail has had to build from the ground up. And that takes time. It won't happen over night, but the signs are there.

You just gotta believe.


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I haven't had a cigar since the Cuba thing in 1999, but I do have a throne. However, my wife won't let me take the laptop in there.

jim66... there is not Preakness anymore, only Chuckassness. I hope when the new owner of Pimlico comes in, they can Chuckas and dump last year's Embarrassingness.

Ken... good post, but what say you to the "but I want an Oompah Loompha NOW" crowd!

You can't have and Oompah Loompha if there are no Oompah Loompah's reasonably/realistically available. Making unrealistic demands end up getting you dropped down the garbage shoot.

Belle really threatened Cal? thats great... Belle screamed at a bunch of kids I was in a group of calling his name behind the visitors dug out for an autograph. a-hole deluxe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mr7mQuGmp0

something magic happens... every time you go...

Shamrock - Isn't it a shame one must look back that far? I believe you just made wayne's case for him.

Pete,

You sure seem to be one sided about all this. You may have disagreed with the Orioles in the past, but you are very soft with them now, even after a 98 loss season.

Andy made some very questionable moves last year, but he's simply never questioned. I mean some really bad moves Pete. When you really think about it, can you imagine the team they started out with last year? Even worse, how about the team on the field at the end?

I read a note by Wayne today and he asked someone an interesting question. Would the Sun have a columnist write about the Orioles the way Mike Preston writes about the Ravens? In other words, could someone actually be incredibly blunt when the Orioles are terrible, which would be quite often?

Don't get mad at me for asking. Given the Orioles reputation, it just doesn't seem they would take kindly to overtly negative views.

SHAMROCK:

I agree with your 8:09 post. I raised the issue of Gillick and the Jays some time ago to lend some perspective and context.

My question essentially was, how big of a job was rebuilding the 69 win 2007 Orioles. Where did they fit between the extremes, a monster job of building an expansion team on one hand versus minor changes to a 78 win team that make it a winner by the next year.

There is no question in my mind that the degree of difficulty in rebuilding the Os into a winner falls to the more difficult end of that spectrum. They were truely and indisputably awful. Ten straight losing seasons just about said it all.

Like you said, since the Os did have Roberts and Markakis, as well as Miggy and Bedard to trade for young talent, that gave them a leg up on an expansion team and no good excuse for taking 6 or 7 years to build a winner.

On the other hand, they were never a fine tuning project or a minor rebuild. Expecting it to be done in one or two years is every bit as unreasonable. A few people around here will crucify anyone saying that but it doesn't make in untrue.

Pete, I have a question for you.

Is the McPhail quote referencing the rebuilding plan: "we're out of phase one" a documented quote? I've heard it thrown around so many times, but I'm not sure of its' origins.

I would assume that phase one means that they've traded their consistant major league performers for prospects, thus beefing up the minor league system, along with shoring up drafting, scouting and development operations at home and internationally. I'm guessing that phase one also includes reaching the point where a significant amount of those efforts are "major league ready". Which I think everyone can agree has gone to plan so far.

If the quote is accurate, did he outline what exactly phase two is? Or how many phases the master plan involves?

What I'm getting at is this: I tend to think that if the 2010 roster is composed primarily of "Phase One" players, and they are able to perform up to their expectations, giving the franchise a solid foundation where does that leave MacPhail?

Is he the man to lead us into phase two? Which again I'm assuming here, would mean big trades and free agent acquistions, that make the team not only relevant but competing for championships. He did manage to seal the deal twice in Minnesota, but as many have pointed out, that was about 20 years ago and a lot has changed since.

Would MacPhail be better served to relinquish his Orioles position after, a hopefully, improved 2010 season? As many have speculated, he might be ready to assume the commisioner duties by then. Wouldn't we be better served by a Pat Gillick type at that point? Someone who has proved time and again that they can put the finishing pieces on an existing product.

I get the sense that MacPhail was brought in to do the dirty work. To turn around an organization that was in shambles, close to an expansion team, as many have pointed out. He's the kind of baseball man that can accomplish what was needed and not get sucked into the fans desires for instant gratification, because he's already made his reputation.

But is he the right man to lead the franchise into the future? The future of competing for/winning championships for an extended period of time? If you look at his run with Cubs, it would appear not.

Don't get me wrong, I thank him for all that's been accomplished and believe that he is only one of a few men that could've gotten Angelos to change his ways and sign on for what needed to be done. I'm just curious Pete if you and everyone else here, think that he's the man to put the finishing touches on, when the time comes?

Why the big fuss about Baez going to the Philadelphia? The Phillies couldn't beat the Yankees without Baez, and the O's couldn't beat them with Baez.

Sounds like a zero-sum gain to me.

ESPN this morning is reporting a 100 million mystery offer for Matt Holliday. Is it the Yanks???

Pete when was the last time you were critical of the Orioles? Last time I can remember is when they hiked up the prices of the BBQ the other year.. I cant really remember too much on this blog other than that and a lot of slurping for AM.

No chance that the Orioles offered Holliday a 100+ million dollar offer. They are tanking again this season its obvious. That’s why they retained Trembley and made another horrible wave of offseason pickups. Even if the Orioles made him an offer he would not come here for the reasons I listed above. Holliday would not want to play for Dave Trembley and a bunch of losers in the middle of an indefiniate rebuilding plan. Oh yeah and Peter Angelos owns the Orioles so don’t expect any legitimate offers anyway..

Pete,
I hate to inform you about this but word on the street is that you are a brainwashed doppelganger created by the warehouse to help them sell THE PLAN. The Original Pete is somewhere in Western Europe living on the streets with no memory of his former life. So yeah that’s what can happen to you in Baltimore if you are critical. Or you just get fired and move somewhere nice like California..

Shamrock,

You and many people get their shorts in a knot as soon as Macphail us questioned on anything. I guess it must be the way that the criticism is framed that sets you and others off. Your over reactions then, is what has created the great warehouse conspiracy, which I have stated does not exist. There are only a few Oriole employees who post here and it doesn't take a CSI investigator to figure out who they are after all this time. And so what if Oriole employees post here? This blog is for all races, creeds colors, political affilations, and regardless of national origin and even Yankee fans.

I have had one, and only one issue with the rebuilding plan. I gfve Andy Macphail an A+ for player development and prospect aquisition and there is no doubt that some of the talent he has aquired will contribute at the Major Laague level. But where I feel Macphail has failed streams from a theme that dpjh posts about, but these are my words.

You just cannot treat an established major League franchise, with all the the moving parts from front office, to players, to the fan base...like an expansion team and ignore the Major League product on the field until when and if the rebuilding plan succeeds. That strategy is wrongheaded and is a result of tunnel vision on Andy Macphail's part

That leap of faith on Andy Macphail's part has not gone over very well with the majority of the fans who are left. It was a huge mistake.The Orioles organization will pay for that for years to come in the form of a continuation of the erosion in fan support and declining attendance. Don't be so sure that the fans will ever come streaming back in the numbers that existed before the franchise rolled downhill. Macphail had a chance to stop the bleeding, result: nearly 100 losses in his third year at the helm.

Peter Angelos was right to finally get out of the way and hire an experienced baseball man to oversee the rebuilding of the farm system. He was dead wrong to allow Andy Macphail to pursue only that objective. The talent level on the field at the major League level could have been improved simultaneusly.

So, to the rebuilding part of the plan I say great job to Andy Macphail.

As far as Andy Macphail's indifferent approach to the Major League product over the last few years and going into 2010 he should be embarassed and so should Peter Angelos. It is a disgrace

That's where dpjh and I converge. Andy Macphail set out to rebuild the minor league system and may not be capable of multi tasking nor does he seem to care.

Gordon,

I think DON simply asked an important question. That one becomes as defensive and evasive as you (for Pete) pretty much speaks to a larger issue around here. Can Pete possibly answer the question without one of his boys playing the part of wingman? I for one would love an answer to the question. A real non sarcastic answer.

The Baltimore media doesn’t need doppelgangers! With so many bloggers and out of work sportswriters the people in charge can just fire problematic ones then hire new ones and tell them what to think and what to say.

Oh my god! Read this:

http://www.camdenchat.com/2009/12/14/1200462/the-baltimore-orioles-all-awful?ref=yahoo


The Baltimore Orioles All-Awful Lineup: 2000-2009

The dude that made this must have needed a lot of booze to rehash all the old and new terror this team has put us through... He couldnt even get to pitching because it was too depressing!

Hi Wayne,

Wayne, I do most think everyone who cares enough to post here wants to see the team win a championship at some point. It's just that you and I and others think that rebuilding the minor league system can be simulteously complimented by signing top level free agent talent at the major league level. We don't understand why Andy Macpahil has failed to do so since Peter Angelos has the money. That makes us angry.

The true rebuilders, those who would stick with that process for 5, 8, 10 years see the issue framed entirely differently.

They see Andy Macphail as sort of a baseball messiah, and that the process must be pure to cleanse the Orioles organization of the sins of the past. Whether it is working or not is where their current focus is. Their joy is in the journey.

So Wayne, my good friend, you can argue with the pure rebuilders until the cows come home, but it won't make any difference, because essence you are arguing their religion.

Gil, you are correct, you are arguing against a religion. The Os can improve the on field product and develop players at the same time. There isnt a sport among the big 3 1/2 where the draft is less important than in baseball (look at the bears and the cutler trade they're screwed). You sign a Type A fa, and what? You lose a 1st round pick? Uh-oh only 291 more picks to make. With the amount of first round picks who don't pan out, I'll take Tex or Holliday or another hitter that is closer to a sure thing for 5-7 years. Plus, with Joe Jordan running things, it seems the Os are positioned to continue strong drafting. I would call myself a re-builder with the caveat (sp?) that when you have the opportunity to add a player of magnitude you make an effort to get him...I know its water under the bridge, but adding Tex would've moved the rebuild up 2 years. Mcphail did take over a franchise in shambles from top to bottom...maybe worse than an expansion franchise since he had to stop the bad momentum first and turn the ship. However, not making one significant signing since taking over sends the wrong message. The Os arent the royals, pirates, etc. They can afford $100-$120 payroll and after this year, the core of Wieters, Markakis, Reimold, Jones, Matusz, Tillman, Guthrie, Bergeson will prove that its ready to be augemented with a legit staff ace and power bat.

Gil, you are correct, you are arguing against a religion. The Os can improve the on field product and develop players at the same time. There isnt a sport among the big 3 1/2 where the draft is less important than in baseball (look at the bears and the cutler trade they're screwed). You sign a Type A fa, and what? You lose a 1st round pick? Uh-oh only 291 more picks to make. With the amount of first round picks who don't pan out, I'll take Tex or Holliday or another hitter that is closer to a sure thing for 5-7 years. Plus, with Joe Jordan running things, it seems the Os are positioned to continue strong drafting. I would call myself a re-builder with the caveat (sp?) that when you have the opportunity to add a player of magnitude you make an effort to get him...I know its water under the bridge, but adding Tex would've moved the rebuild up 2 years. Mcphail did take over a franchise in shambles from top to bottom...maybe worse than an expansion franchise since he had to stop the bad momentum first and turn the ship. However, not making one significant signing since taking over sends the wrong message. The Os arent the royals, pirates, etc. They can afford $100-$120 payroll and after this year, the core of Wieters, Markakis, Reimold, Jones, Matusz, Tillman, Guthrie, Bergeson will prove that its ready to be augemented with a legit staff ace and power bat.

And Gary jr, that Os post from the 00s almost caused me to shove a tablespoon through my temple.

In answer to athe couple of responses to my previous post:

Yes I do think that Guthrie would go to the bullpen if directed to do so by his manager.
I think he'd be much stronger and consistent working regularly as the RH setup man.
I like Jeremy a lot.
I want him to remain an Oriole.
When we first brought him up, he worked out of the bullpen and he was absolutely lights out.
Then when he began starting, he was very good for about half a season, but his glaring weakness always seemed to be endurance.
Give him a defined role more suited to his abilities and strengths and watch him excell once again.
This move, as I said, would be facilitated by the signing of Bedard.
Bedard would give us that second lefty in the rotation and take pressure off of Matusz and Tillman. I think with Bergesen as the #1, Bedard #2, Millwood #3, Matusz #4, and Tillman #5, we could rival any rotation in baseball, including the Yankees.

As for the bullpen, I believe in keeping the guys with the best arms and the ability to get batters out.
Gonzalez, Guthrie, Hendrickson, Micholio, Sarfate, Meredith, and someone who flashes during the spring, maybe Patton.
Who would be the stablizing veteran in the 'pen?
Guthrie.

Regarding my proposed trade of Jones, Scott, Johnson, and Hernandez to get Adrian Gonzalez, here's my reasoning:
We need Adrian on our team to finally have that 40-homer gold-glover at 1B.
Jones is a hot commodity this winter, having won a GG and having put up good numbers for most of the season when he wasn't on the DL.
I believe that Jones is one of those Eric Davis/ Jeffery Hammonds type players who are injury-prone. I say trade him NOW while we have Pie to insert in CF.
If we signed Holliday ( who is good friends with Roberts and Atkins) we insert him in LF and let Nolan Reimold concentrate on his hitting at the DH spot.
Holliday, Pie, and Markakis would be a damned good outfield and Reimold could spell any of the three at any time.
Jim Johnson was virtually ineffective the second half of 2009. I say trade him NOW while he still has a good reputation.
Luke Scott is a consistent 20-homer guy.
But he's also as streaky as they come.
With Adrian leaving, the Padres will want at least most of those homers back.
Scott and Jones bring htose homer with them.
Finally, David Hernandez showed flashes of dominance and he's a west coast guy, so I think the Padres would take those four players for Adrian, I really do. And if they ask for one more minor league pitcher, then find one and give him to them.
So here's how it ends up:
A. Gonzalez 1B
Roberts 2B
Izturis SS
Atkins 3B
Holliday LF
Pie CF
Markakis RF
Weiters C
Reimold DH/OF

Wigginton IF/OF
Turner IF/OF
Andino IF/OF
Moeller C

Bergesen RHSP
Bedard LHSP
Millwood RHSP
Matusz LHSP
Tillman RHSP

M. Gonzalez Closer (LH)
Guthrie RH setup
Hendrickson LH setup
Micholio RHRP
Sarfate RHRP
Meredith RHRP
Patton LHRP

And who have we given up ?
1 A promising but injury-prone CF.
2 A powerful, but streaky hitter with average defensive skills.
3 An inconsistent setup guy with possible ability to start.
4 A young promising RH starter.
for......
An all-star, gold glove 1B who hits 40+ homers and bats .300.

free agents:
Mike Gonzalez
Kevin Millwood
Garrett Atkins
Matt Holliday

I'll tell you what....
These moves could really put us on the map in the AL East for years to come.

Pete will only take chances and criticize the Orioles when he has an issue that is also tactful enough that can be said like how he took the cause of the base running mistakes last season nobody could possibly deny that and at the same time he still managed to kiss AM’s tail during it all. Very impressive stuff. Personally I don’t want a Skip Bayless or Jay Mariotti here in Baltimore but just a sports writer not involved with WNST to stand up to this Angelos machine and not be such a pansy about it.

Bear the Birdfan,

Are you nuts?! Peter Angelos is trying to secure the 30th payroll in MLB in the next 3 years! He would never allow just great things for the fans ever!

Haahahah just kidding man I think you are totally right. There needs to be some moves made to distance ourselves and progress from last season. We have players that should be traded and the 26th payroll in MLB. The only reason for not making any moves has to go back to having the worst owner in sports. If we had a commish like the NFL does he might even get involved with bad teams like the Orioles and Pirates to make them his projects to help improve the league overall.

MR. PETE,

Would it ever be possible for the SUN to write a piece similar to Gil's latest post? At least the heart of his post......

Even if it were a point counter point type of piece?

Is asking for such being negative? Is asking for such being a whiner?

Is being on board with only part of the plan considered too critical for the SUN to write about?

You could be the Point (for the Plan) person and an outsider (possibly even Gil himself) could present the Counter Point. That way, no one on the SUN staff could be accused by the warehouse as being overly critical.... And I don't mean that in a bad way.

Can something like this ever happen Pete? Honestly?

Yes, you have been critical about the Orioles over the years. But no Pete, since AM got to Baltimore, things have changed. Anyone (not just you) who even attempts to deviate from the Plan, does so in a very softball type fashion.

That this team won 64 games last year. That this team is 26 of 30 in payroll. That this team has no real corner infielders, no clean-up hitter or an experianced, productive bat. That this team has a starting rotation comprised of basically 3 rookies. That this team doesn't even have a semi-established closer.....

..... And no one at the cities only newspaper can give a real Counter Point to at least part of the Plan? Come on Pete!

Instead of giving me a sarcastic, name calling response, how about at least just running it up the flagpole?


SHAMROCK:

I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a conspiracy too quickly. I have it on good authority that two posters here figured it all out. I won't name them in order to help protect their safety, but apparently one of them picked up secret communications between warehouse posters and AM using the latest prototype tin foil hat. He then passed it to the other to decipher using a new secret decoder ring.

Apparently the plot to deny Os fans a winner goes to pretty high levels. I mean, Cheney is involved in this and he's using the same team that took down the WTC.

While I thank the two brave posters who put their lives on the line to bring us this, it could get pretty ugly for them before this is all done. THE TEAM knows where they are and will soon be replacing them. I don't know when exactly, but the surest sign will be when one of them starts to back down from their claims and begins to deny any knowledge of a conspiracy. That will mark the beginning of the end for two brave guys that wanted nothing more than to WIN.

wayne,

Pete is not allowed to think that way. He just does what hes told

Wayne,
Remember Pete supported the decision to keep Dave Trembley.

The number one enemy of Peter Angelos is baseball players. Baseball players prevent Peter Angelos more money. The AM plan works out for many ways for him. While they are cleaning up the last decade of bad decisions while losing near 100 games here in the present Angelos is just pocketing money each year until AM becomes commissioner. Then Angelos uses his connections with AM and sells the team to owners that have intentions from the start of moving it to Indianapolis.

bobc-

He pretty much turned it into an expansion team selling off the parts. Bedard and Miggy before '08, Hernandez before '09. What killed them last year were getting absolutely nothing out of Mora and Eaton, injuries hurt them (he wasn't even servicable), and the hitting was streaky. A lot of the moves last year were low risk/high reward. None of the moves killed them and what did kill them is now long gone.

I felt at the time McPhail should have held on to Huff to offer arbitration and get a 2nd round pick if he declined. Seems like it was good to get smething for him now as Huff hasn't signed and probably won't until Spring Training when the O's wouldn't have gotten any compensation anyway (not 100% on how that works). The O's luck, he would have accepted and they would be stuck with him for another year.

bob c.,


Don't quit your day job because your attempts at humor are about as funny as an unemployment line. Also you don't read and interpret very well. I said there is no warehouse conspiracy.

Yeah Pete... why did you support keeping DT???

MacPhail really blew that one. He knew Mike Shananhan and Bill Cowher were available this offseason. Angelos jsut didn't want to open the coffers on that one.

I for one am glad you are not the Orioles version of Mike Preston.

Don't think I've read more inane and obscure dribble in years. The name calling, sarcasm and overall tone of the posts here are borish - how bout we all talk Os baseball and leave the rest for another forum.

That said, most, if not all, offer valid, and often verbose opinions on what the Orioles should do, or otherwise have not done. Its good to see the passion in these arguments; all have some validity and truth, no matter which path you think the Os are on.

For me, "The Plan" is much better than anything I've seen in the recent history of the team and that goes back to Roland Hemond - all others (with the exception of Gillick) have been nothing more than neutered croonies of PA.

Conversly, one can't argue that the plan, at least at the major league level, has been a miserable failure thus far. Is progress being made - sure. But the bottom line is the Os lost 98 games last year!

I had high hopes for this offseason. I thought this would be McPhail's first real opportunity to go out and buy the bats and make this team competitive.

Sadly, it appears he's taken the cheap and easy way out. The offseason acquisitions thus far have been a major disappointment. With all the money that came off the books, AM should have been more aggressive at making this team competitive.

There's still some time left in the offseason, and my hopes are that McPhail delivers a real cleanup hitter, a longterm answer at short, and another arm (not Bedard) who can eat some innings.

But, I'm not holding my breath!

Scamrock

You really think DT is a good manager that can get the team closer to 500 than in the past? I didnt think so.

The comedian wanna be's are out this afternoon. Pete, what is your blog theme motto? I see others are trying it out.

Pete,

I wanted to wish you a Happy New Year and thank you for all your hard work. I don't know how you stay sane reading these posts. It's sad that the posts have been hijacked by the Gil and Wayne show. It's absurd how many times they post in a day. They obviously have nothing else going on in their lives and spend all their time congratulating each other on their insight. The shots they take at you and your integrity are really childish. I hope that when I am in my 60s I have a richer life and am not so bitter.

Best,
Paul

PS -- Thanks for trying to reason with these two Shamrock. You have the patience of a saint.

I Think Shanny or the chin could do a better job than Trembles at the helm. I also think the blogger Wayne is a better manager than Mc T. The only reason DT was retained is because hes cheap and if the Orioles have a bad record the front office can blame him for it instead of the golden boy AM or Greedy Pete. He is a pawn that can used to dodge criticism that’s all. There is 0% chance Trembley lasts more than another year.

Firework explodes near infielder's face

The WTF story of the day LOL

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4790334

Mitch from Westminster,

You have made a wise personal health decision not to hold your breath waiting for Andy Macphail to sign any name free agents. We would prefer that you stay alive and so does your family.

But hang in there, Mitch. One day, some day in that nebulous future time frame, when time is right, and the "Plan" is well along{and Camden Yards is nearly empty} and the time is "appropriate'...The Orioles will start signing name free agents.

But it won't be Andy Macphail signing them, because he will either be Baseball Commissioner or fired by Peter Angelos.

The Old man will have an epiphany and realize that he could have continued to meddle and maintain control and gotten the same outcome Macphail gets every year: Last Place.

SHAMROCK:

AM might have offered Huff arbitration if he'd had a good year, but his performance sealed his fate. He did get something for him in Brett Jacobson who put up some good numbers in A ball. In 95 innings he's given up just 84 hits with a 3 to 1 K/BB ratio. If he's just a young kid, which I assume he is, those numbers are something to build on.

AM has done a good job of building a deep pool of young pitching, the best way of increasing the odds of being able to field a good young 4 man rotation in the next couple of years.

As you said in your previous post, after 12 long years of losing, I want a good long run of winning. Arms are the key to that and AM has done a good job so far in obtaining them.

Larry- like the FA market, who else was out there to take DT's place?

they are going to Showalter him next year. don;t worry

I like Bobby V but yeah Showalter would be fine too. I just want DT gone man.

Gil:

So you think that I "don't read and interpret very well". I quite clearly spelled out to you that I was a lifelong Os fan starting in 66 who happened to live in Toronto during the Gillick years. From that you said about me that, "He is an old Toronto Blue jays fan who watched an expansion team come to Toronto in 1977 and suffered as the Blue Jays lost 105 games." Take care of your own house before worrying about mine.

As far as wacky conspiracy theorists, I stayed away from mentioning names. It's instructive that you thought I was talking about you.

There are many good out of work baseball managers in limbo right now. Keeping DT is still a complete mystery to me. The only logical conclusion I have is that the Orioles have become like the Oakland Raiders because of the owner issues and people just dont want to come here so we have to have guys like Tom Cable. It also could be that Angelos will only make cost effective hires like he does with the roster.

2008 OPS Baltimore Orioles Shortstops: 535

2008 OPS Chicago Cubs Pitchers: 520 (not OPS allowed, actual OPS)

Atkins will be the Ryan Freel of this season people. Mark it!

Wayne, perhaps you can package up those facts and have them published in a Letter to the Editor, an Op-ed piece, or perhaps some alternative media outlet in the Baltimore area? It seems to me that someone 'with the facts on their side' and this winners mentality would be doing his best in whatever way he could to inform the good citizens of Baltimore about the fraud being perpetrated upon them.
Why limit yourself to a blog when their are other avenues with far greater readership or viewership (sorry Pete) in which to state your case? It just seems to me that this debate deserves a more public forum, a thorough vetting if you will, and perhaps you need to think 'outside the box' a bit about how to expand this most serious discussion.
If I were you, I wouldn't hold back one thing. I think the 'warehouse conspiracy',
calling AM a disgrace, calling out the Sun writers, blasting away at PA...all that stuff just might get you all the attention you so deserve.
Be sure to let me know which media outlet you have chosen for this. I am here in CT, so if it's anything but the Sun, you may have to post the article or the video.
I am counting on you, and I would expect nothing less from a winner like yourself.
Just trying to help. Thanks for listening.

"2008 OPS Baltimore Orioles Shortstops: 535

2008 OPS Chicago Cubs Pitchers: 520 (not OPS allowed, actual OPS)"

Izturis put up a .620 OPS in 2009 and plays great defense.

What's your point?

Its just a hilarious stat brooks!

I think what the poster LOL! Is getting at is the Orioles for some reason don’t have any real shortstops in development other than Izzy and I really don’t think hes the long term answer. The Orioles need production in every position to step it up and finally win games.

Does anyone have a link to that game where DT let Ty Wiggington play SS and blew the game? LOL

Bear the Birdfan, are you nuts? If the Padres said, "Look we got:

1 A promising but injury-prone CF.
2 A powerful, but streaky hitter with average defensive skills.
3 An inconsistent setup guy with possible ability to start.
4 A young promising RH starter.
for......
An all-star, gold glove 1B who hits 40+ homers and bats .300 with two more years on a deal paying him 10 million dollars" they'd be 'idiots of the year.' AG's not going anywhere til at least the all star break when he will bring the pads maximum value. Mind you, the Os should be in on the bidding if/when it happens and better be willing to give up some cheap, major league ready talent to get him a la the bedard deal. And AG's power #s are a heckuva lot more likely to pan out than Bedards.

bob c.

Silly me. You chatter so much about the Blue jays and how Gillick built the team through the farm system{and}inferred that the Oriole should use that development as a template, that I assumed you might also be a Blue Jays fan .

What's instructive to me is that you and few few others are the ones that keep talking about wacky conspiracy theorists. I have said repeatedly that there is none. You devoted a whole post to the tin hat crowd.


Bob, you are getting a little too chippy in my humble opinion

Dave Trembley is the worst Orioles manager I’ve ever seen handling a pitching staff.

LOL... thats not a fair comparison. Carlos Zambrano is probably a better hitter than Luke Scott, let alone the 2008 SS carousel.

HA!

Sometimes, as all winners know, you just have to take matters into your own hands. I can't wait for the media blitz. Please don't disappoint me. I know you're the one person on the blog who won't hide behind some silly excuse to not pursue an all-out winning strategy. Waiting to see how it's done.

The Orioles need to trade for Zambrano and somehow get the DH rule omitted at Camden yards then we would be alot better hahaha

Nate... you shouldnt get your baseball information from boobie magazines. However, you should get your boobie information from boobie magazines.

Nate... you shouldnt get your baseball information from boobie magazines. However, you should get your boobie information from boobie magazines.

Sham,

The part where they thought Baltimore was given to the Chinese to cover debt was pretty damn funny

Pete,

Instead of wasting our money for this upcoming tank season should we just preorder 2011 or 2012 tickets in advance? I hear by then we may have a real manager and 1 superstar... maybe..

Gil:

I don't feel chippy, buy maybe you have a point. I'll sincerely keep it in mind.

It is possible that some chippiness comes out from time to time. I think I can be forgiven for that at least a little bit when to hold the views I do means that my statements are routinely mischaracterized.

People like me who hold the position that we are best advised to focus on youth and build PRIMARILY from within constantly are told that we don't want to win. We're accused of having some other motivation for saying what we do rather than it simply being an honestly held opinion.

We must be people in the employ of the warehouse, we're pure rebuilders who would never consider signing a free agent or making a trade. We'll be constantly told that even after repeatedly pointing out that it isn't a fair characterization of our positions.

I was never the greatest debater, but I did do it during my school years. I did manage to learn what a straw man argument is, a msicharacterization of someone's position designed to relieve the responder from having to address the argument on its merits and to deflect a mischaracterization back on the person who made the statement so that all the time is spent defending themselves against things they never said, meant or implied.

That's a sleazy and intellectually dishonest way of conducting a debate. You lose marks for that in debating class when you get caught doing it.

With due respect, you do that a lot. So, while a little introspection sure wouldn't hurt me, maybe there are things for you to think about too.

Andy Macphail has injected some prospects into the Minor League system with legitimate power. Until the last few years, the minor league system was devoid of more than one or two players that appeared to have 20+ home run potential. With the additon of players like Brandon Waring, Josh Bell and Rhyne Hughes the Orioles have position players at various levels in the minor leagues that may one day give the team legitimate power threats at many key positions.

One player I have been following is Rhyne Hughes, aquired from the Devil rays in the Greg Zaun trade. Hughes is a first baseman, left handed all the way. He is 6'2'' 175 and scounting reports indicate he is very good fielder. What is most promising is that Hughes scouts say that Hughes has big time power and hit 25 home runs last year between AA and AAA.

In his final year of college Hughes hit 17 home runs in 171 at bats and pitched to a 2.70 ERA. Scouting reports say that it takes Hughes awhile to adjust to a level each time he is promoted, but he just turned 26 in September and could end up in the first base mix pretty quickly if he continues to improve.

The Orioles added him to the 40 man roster in November to protect him from the rule 5 draft and I think he is a real sleeper.

12 consecutive losing seasons......

Patience everyone!

Most recent season - 64 WIns.......

Patience everyone!

The Plan

2008 - 'It's not about this year'
2009 - 'It's not about this year'
2010 - 'It's not about this year'
2011 - 'It's not about this year'

Patience everyone!

bob c.,

First of all, I direct my comments to the Orioles and Andy Macphail and Peter Angelos, not to posters when it comes to criticism. If someone wants to argue with me I try to state the way I feel. I try my best not to devolve into name calling even though I have been called names many times on the blog.

I have said over and over that I don't claim to be right. It is just my opinion, period.

I have never said that you don't want to win. You are not the GM, why would I say that?. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. I have said that the Orioles should be trying to win, not planning to lose, which they have been doing, and are getting ready to do again in 2010..

I have said over and over that there is no warehouse conspiracy.

Your statement that I am trying to mischaracterize your position is very broad and subjective. Define it and give me an example.

Give me an example of a statement that I have made in conjunction with our conversations with I have been "sleazy' or "intelectually dishonest" with you. That is also a very subjective observation but I am not going to let you get away with that generalization. Sounds to me more like I disagree with you and you don't like it.

You ripped me last night for a joke I made to you.I thought I could joke with you. If you read the blog before I said it was a joke and that I thought the world of you and jim66.

Man, this is getting old...

If something doesn't happen soon, I'm not sure if we're all going to make it out of this alive.

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Patience everyone !

Two huge components O's are banking on in 2010.

1) Bergesen
2) Reimold

Both were surprises and both are coming off of significant injuries.

Patience everyone!

Three fifths of starting rotation comprised of (basically) rookies. Neither likely to pitch 200 innings.

No experienced closer...

Patience everyone!

Weakest corner infield combo in baseball.'

No true clean-up hitter.

No proven middle of the order power hitter to protect developing players

Patience everyone!

I will have to admit Baez was pretty worthless, when we do have a good reliever (Chad Bradford) we give him away for cash. Also Jim Johnson should be the next one to sue for overuse. In 08, when he was pitching good out of the pen, they were throwing out there every other night because there was nobody else. Oh yea we had Jamie Walker. Biggest waist of salary ever. But, I do think things are looking up. Besides not having a good cleanup hitter, the rest of our lineup shapes up pretty good. Mike Gonzalez has better stuff than George Sherrill. So I won't have to close my eyes every time he comes in. Are rotation is young but look what was there last spring. Guthrie, koji, Hendrickson, Simon and that scrubby veteren guy that last 5 starts with an 8.00 era than we had rich hill with a 7.00 era, so things are looking up.

wayne -

Not going to argue with anything else, but Mike Gonzalez has 54 career saves and a 2.57 career ERA.

He has more closing experience going into 2010 than George Sherrill had going into 2009.

You're on the mark about everything else, despite the fact that you're being incredibly irritating right now, but I'd like to know what more does it take to be an "experienced closer".

pj

This lineup is in deep shit without a cleanup hitter. We have a collection of 2 and 3 hitters and nobody else. Its going to be ugly...

Wayne,
I don’t think you are being annoying because the simple facts you point out are inexcusable and should have been addressed already especially after the total meltdown last season.

Wayne, you just made the case for patience, cause if we didn't have any, because of the reasons you mentioned, we'd all be rubbing our head against cheese graters...which I believe was 2/5ths of our rotation coming out of spring training last year.

Not Brooks,
I am not saying Mike Gonzalez is going to be a bad closer but we had MAJOR bullpen issues last season and if he gets hurt or doesn’t pan out this season we know JJ has issues as the closer and that would make our next best guy Mark Hendrickson which is just real scary.

Relief Pitcher Jim Johnson (R) Dennis Sarfate (R) Cla Meredith (R) Matt Albers (R) Kam Mickolio (R)
Closer Mike Gonzalez (L)

Trembley will burn them out in a month. Each season he tries to sprint ahead of the divison and take first place only to hold it for a week then crashes all season long. My advice to DT this season...

PACE YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, It's most hilarious when people compare going into 2010 with 2009, saying we're so much better off. It's like comparing one disease against another in a debate over which is worse. And ask yourselves, who brought in those awful players in 2009?

Wayne,

Irritating, Yes!

All indisputable, Yes!

Sung to the tune of "I love cookie, it good enough for me" by"the Cookie Monster" on Sesame Street...

...with vocal by Andy Macphail...

"I love prospects,they're good enough for me!"...

"I love prospects, they're good enough for me!"

"I love prospects, they're good enough for me,

"PROSPECT PROSPECT PROSPECT START WITH P!!!!!

Hey Everyone,
It's Jan. 2nd,
I suppose patience could at least last till they throw some cleats on in two months.

I think W is the most annoying poster I have ever read. Totally obsessed with losing...a real outhouser

not brooks,

Wasn't Sherill an all star accomplished closer going into 2009? And wasn't he lights out before being traded last year? He may not have been Mariano, but he was an experience, successful closer for the Orioles before being traded.

He Wayne - You are fascinating and enlightening. You present things in ways that can't really be disputed by logic. Thanks

Pablo, Sherill was a fine 1/2 season closer going into 2009. Great first half of '08, then coudn't get you or me out in the 2nd half. And '08 was his first as 'the man.' Gonzalez had an ok year last year, but heck, Brad Lidge was perfect in '08 and lost his closer job in the playoffs this year. Closer=you never really know, unless you
re talking Riveria.

And just saying cause i still dont believe it...fox sports is reporting as fact the Os made an 8 year 140 million dollar offer to Holliday.

Wayne,

I particularly like the listing of the numbers in emphasizing the oriole payroll woes. Wow! It really puts things in perspective.

I also forgot that bergesan and Reimmy were both injured at the end of last year.

I'm officially depressed now

Wayne, You make it worth checking out the blogs each day. You're a hoot!

GiL, I'm still laughing

Thanks Randy!

2000 Oriole Park attendance - over 3 million.

2009 Oriole Park attendance - less than 2 million.

2010 Oriole Park Yankee/Red Sox attendance - Priceless


Patience everyone!

Not Brooks,

Now that it is *crystal clear that Macphail has *no intention of signing any big time free agents this year, are you disallusioned at all? How did you feel when some of the *pure rebuilding addicts came out of the woodwork to pillory you for the mere suggestion?


*Crystal clear in this vernacular is a subjective term, merely an opinion and in no way should be interpreted as an expression of fact by the blog owner, the thread originator, or of the recepient,

*No intention" is an observation based in three years of reviewing Andy Macphail's characteristics. It may or may not be true and Andy Macphail may indeed wish to sign a big name free agent, however does not wish to spend the money at this time.

*Pure rebuilding addicts is hyperbole and merely an expression of bemusement by the thread author with with it's sole purpose directly intended to piss off those who believe anything that Andy Macphail does.

Hey everyone,

There's a good article on Nick Markakis as part of milb.com's Path of the Pro's series.

You should check it out.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091222&content_id=7846944&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

Wayne,
I love reading your messages. Somebody finally gets it !!
Angelos is worth $1.5 Billion, just like Steinbrenner, but look at NYY. The difference is Steinbrenner actually loves baseball, Angelos loves money and profits. He's determined to own Baltimore before he dies. He'll probably write a book called 'How to profit from other people's misery'.

Thanks Chris,

I worry that there will be no one to protect Markakis in the lineup again this year. He's not 23 anymore, and he didn't improve last year. He didn't hit 300, didn't collect even 20 home runs, and he's not a sb threat. He's a great outfielder, but as an offensive threat, he has become average. It's a shame to think who they'll be putting behind him in the lineup this year. On a wining club, with protection, i think he'd excell. You have to feel bad for guys like Nick to be stuck where he is.

Is there anyone out there who believes that the Orioles rising stars will develop and beat out Boston and/or New York by the year 2011 or 2012 or 2013 ?
Are we to believe that TB, Bos, NYY, will
sit idle and wait for the Orioles to finally catch up enough to compete, or are we realistic enough to know that they will always stay light years ahead of us, because they (NY & Bos) employ the best players for each position every year?

Thanks dspedden,

Remember though, until the Orioles can beat smaller markets than themselves, they shouldn't be allowed to say Yankee's or Red Sox!

Baltimore Orioles Depth Chart
Team: Roster | Depth Chart | Lineup | Manager | Salaries MLB: More Teams Arizona Diamondbacks Atlanta Braves Baltimore Orioles Boston Red Sox Chicago Cubs Chicago White Sox Cincinnati Reds Cleveland Indians Colorado Rockies Detroit Tigers Florida Marlins Houston Astros Kansas City Royals Los Angeles Angels Los Angeles Dodgers Milwaukee Brewers Minnesota Twins New York Mets New York Yankees Oakland Athletics Philadelphia Phillies Pittsburgh Pirates San Diego Padres San Francisco Giants Seattle Mariners St. Louis Cardinals Tampa Bay Rays Texas Rangers Toronto Blue Jays Washington Nationals Depth Chart
POSITION STARTER 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
Catcher Matt Wieters (S) Guillermo Rodriguez (R)
First Base Ty Wigginton (R) Michael Aubrey (L) Luke Scott (L)
Second Base Brian Roberts (S) Ty Wigginton (R) Robert Andino (R) Justin Turner (R)
Third Base Garrett Atkins (R) Ty Wigginton (R)
Shortstop Cesar Izturis (S) Robert Andino (R)
Left Field Nolan Reimold (R) Luke Scott (L) Felix Pie (L) Ty Wigginton (R) Lou Montanez (R)
Center Field Adam Jones (R) Felix Pie (L) Lou Montanez (R)
Right Field Nick Markakis (L) Nolan Reimold (R) Luke Scott (L) Lou Montanez (R)
DH Luke Scott (L) Ty Wigginton (R) Michael Aubrey (L)
Starting Pitcher Kevin Millwood (R) Jeremy Guthrie (R) Jason Berken (R) David Hernandez (R) Chris Tillman (R)
Relief Pitcher Jim Johnson (R) Dennis Sarfate (R) Cla Meredith (R) Matt Albers (R) Kam Mickolio (R)
Closer Mike Gonzalez (L)

This team is not better than last year. It may not be any worse but in no way is it better.

I don’t care if 100 people have posted this already because it needs to be said until Andy makes a move. AT THIS POINT TY WIGGINTON IS PLAYING 1ST!!!! Sorry for the caps I normally hate it when people do that but what is happening here? Look on our depth chart! Who is better than Wiggy? Are we waiting to get Huff back or to see if someone can play the position better during spring training? I know it’s early but to have that extreme lack of talent it boggles my mind.

Oh come on people........ Did you really think that if the Orioles kept Dave Trembley they were going to bother fielding a real MLB team this season? LOL We all know the way this season turns out already same as last season maybe even worse.

The only thing consistent about the AM “plan” so far is losing and lack of stability in the positions each year. We have no idea how this new starting rotation will do because its mostly rookies, damaged goods etc. We have no really good infielder other than B-Rob. 2 outfielders are coming off major surgery and I don’t even have time to discuss the bullpen concerns with Trembley at the helm. There is no progress in player development, September swoons, and the record getting closer to 500. These are all goals Andy said he wanted to work on. Why isn’t he?

John and This is really happening,

Careful, you'll be called negative, troll, insane, jerk, naysayer........ and Pete will even compare you to a kinky porn site.

Better get with the Plan before the warehousers find out...

January 2nd

PetesBeef:

I don't disagree with your point about Markakis. It isn't true though that even in the down season he had last year that Nick was just average. His numbers across the board were above average.

This is really happening:

If the young guys we have improve in 2010 then the Os will be better. How much is open to debate, but they would be better.

When you look at what the Orioles have done it’s truly amazing. They have totally done away with local fans. Don’t need them. They have a national deal with MASN, high dollar settlement money from Angelos’s law firm, revenue sharing from MLB and so on. They don’t even need to pack Camden Yards to give the appearance that people still like the O’s because they have MASN. They take advantage of the few people that like Orioles baseball and show up and have big paydays when more popular teams come to town. They could do this strategy for another decade and probably be okay.

Teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore make baseball look bad. What they do is an insult to not just Major League Baseball but to all sports in general. They do not play to win but just entertain people as cheaply as possible then bottom feed off more popular teams without even trying. There is no difference between the WWE and the Baltimore Orioles at all. We know the outcomes pretty much each year with the Orioles because all they do is worry about everything except the game. I’m sorry to insult the WWE like that at least they have creative storylines that make you think. With the Orioles you pretty much know what you’re getting no imagination necessary.

Mike and Len,

Careful...... See my post to John above

bob c

Are you talking about Michael Aubrey playing 1st? Yeah that would be great but we kinda saw him play last season and i dont see him being the powerbat we need. Maybe Wieters can cover that role but this is a horrible way to plan for a season. They should go out and get a cleanup hitter to have a real solid plan not just a bunch a maybe all over the place.

Bill Frederick
Yeah it is very early but if we were in almost any other city and had this roster there would be a serious outcry from the fans. This is major league baseball. Pawtucket might be able to beat this Oriole team as it stands today.

I vote the O's reenact last seasons pitching super-tryout in Spring Training, but this year on First/Third basemen.

Go into camp signing a bunch of guys with big ?'s...

First- Blaylock, Branyon, Delgado, Garko, Giambi, Huff Laroche and Tracy

Third-Beltre and Crede.

No one else has signed them. Think they're all asking for too much.

It could work, right? This is a good year for low risk/high reward. All of them have had a decent year or two.

Sham,

I wouldn’t even mind them trying that strategy out but you know the Orioles instead they will get a bunch of misfits similar to the beginning of the comedy major league... but these jokers will have less talent and be much cheaper...

This is really happening:

I wouldn't have trouble with Aubrey at first if he can hit left handed pitching or there was a competent right handed hitter to platoon with him. (Not Wiggy)

Aubrey has a rep of being real good defensively which doesn't hurt. If you look at his minor league batting numbers he averaged about 40 doubles and 20 HRs for every 650 plate appearances which is about the number of PA one would get playing somewhat full time over a 162 game schedule.

No, he is not the big bat I'd like to see but there's no reason we can't get that power from the DH spot. There are still some bats out there. Delgado is intriguing if he's healthy.

I think the Orioles and fans need to reassess their stance on low risk high reward. It seems like all we are seeing is low risk players but this strategy always ends the same way… I guess losing 100 games each year is a low risk and maybe that is a bad mindset..

Larry...

I thought you said we didn't have any high priced talent.

Forget about Dorn, cause he's just high priced.

I like Aubrey, Bob... translate his stats out over a year, you have defense on first on lock down and 15-20 HR, 60-80 RBI. He's not a monster, but I like his swing. That and he doesn't cost 10mil a year that Laroche wants.

Lots of those guys I mentioned before sign after MLK day.

Id take Dorn over Izzy anyday. Even with Dorn tipping pitches for PA hahaha

SHAMROCK:

Everything I've managed to find on Aubrey says he is real top drawer defensively. With him, Roberts and Izturis we've got some good defence behind our young pitchers.

Did I mention that AT THIS POINT TY WIGGINTON IS PLAYING 1ST!!!!

Shamrock,

Bingo... There it is, right there!

'I like Aubrey....... 15-20 HR, 60-80 RBI...... and he doesn't cost 10mil a year that Laroche wants'

You just gave the absolutely PERFECT quote that describes the Oriole Way - AM style!

Those stats you just described would put the Orioles last or close to last in production at one of the most important offensive positions on the field.

I'm not suggesting the signing of Laroche, but Shamrock.......it's NOT your money! If they spent 10mil, they'd still have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.

People... It's NOT your money to save! You won't get a rebate, ticket prices won't be reduced and the beer vendors will still be charging 6.50 per beer.

This organization has tricked you into thinking it's your money... It's NOT! Reach higher than 15 home runs and 60 rbi's from your first baseman.

It's about winning baseball games!!!!!!!!

John:

Don't know who is saying Wiggy is our first baseman. Only DT and AM count. Until one of them say it, take what you hear with a grain of salt.

AM is being smart... he knows who he wants and will get him when the price is right. No other team is rushing to get any of these guys. The longer he waits, the further the price falls.

I know, I know, I want an oompah loompah now...

ok, wayne... who do you suggest?

Amen Wayne!

WAYNE, I'm with you. I can't believe some of the things being said. I just had a bad feeling though. Aubrey is actually going to play 1st for this club. I need to go be sick now.

Aubrey is a former 1st round pick. He's got talent. Is he Mark Texeira? no.

But what do any of you suggest???

A realistic move last year would have been signing Adam Dunn.

Here's my suggestion,

Let's be the best at something...and it won't be hard.

Let's drop from # 26 to 30 in payroll! By doing so, the orioles would be the very best at being the cheapest team in baseball. I mean the best is the best, right? It's kinda like winning, right?

I mean Aubrey's a former 1st rounder, right? I mean who cares if he doesn't possess the needed production from a position like 1B? Numbers don't matter when you're trying to get to # 30. Aubrey's our man!

And to top it off (as an added bonus), ownership gets to pocket the money they're not spending.

Who's with me?

We're # 30!
We're # 30!

We're # 30 (I'm with you)

"Don't know who is saying Wiggy is our first baseman. Only DT and AM count. Until one of them say it, take what you hear with a grain of salt."

Logic says so, bob.

It's either Wigginton or Aubrey at this point. And that's no good.

Wow! I'm with ya

We're # 30. Let's go for it!

I've never understood the "Aubrey is a former first round pick" argument.

If I felt like looking, I could ring up a list of hundreds of first round picks that never amounted to anything.

The draft is a crap shoot. Draft slot is worthless once the guy starts playing. After the draft, all that matters is results.

Aubrey's results show a guy with modest power whose bat would play better at a bunch of positions that he can't play. Maybe if he hit .350 or stole a ton of bases, that would make up for the lack of big time power. But he doesn't. So he's not going to cut it at first base in the AL East.

not brooks:

After Huff left last year, Aubrey got almost all the playing time. I think that says everything we need to know about who is going to get the job absent AM going out and getting someone else. Wiggy isn't our first baseman.

As far as Aubrey is concerned, I'm not as down on him as you are. He was a good hitter in the minors with numbers pretty similiar to Pie, without all the Ks.

not brooks,

Why does that matter? It's about 1st rounders, developing players and prospects. Let's not confuse hope with reality not brooks. If Shamrock says he's a 1st rounder, that's all we need to know.

We're # 30!

I can see it now Wayne. When the Sox fans take over the Yard this summer, and start to yell 'Let's Go Red Sox', we can counter with 'we're # 30'. We'll show em!

Absolutely hopeless, Now Aubrey's minor league stats being as good as Pie's minor league stats is causing some to state Aubrey's case to play first base on a major league baseball team.

Wayne, Can we say 'we're number 31'? Just to make a point?


Be my guest Pablo!

Gnight all..... By all means, carry on!

Hoot says: WHO'S WITH ME?
Who the hell cares...

Don't trip getting off your soapbox.

Your relentless criticism of Angelos, has pretty much convinced me that even when this team wins, you will continue your silly little tantrums. Because you will always have a bone to pick with the guy.

By the way, what's stopping you from taking matters into your own hands and blowing the lid off the organization?
Yours seems a story worth telling. At least that's what you're telling Pete.
Do it! DO IT NOW!
I figure that has to be an integral part of 'taking the team back'.

And you never answered Sham's question about who you'd like to see at first base. That's typical.

Me, I don't mind at all if they go into the season with Aubrey and the kid Hughes, who Gil has mentioned, hopefully gets a look, I thought he was going to get a shot last year, but they brought Aubrey up instead.
Aubrey hardly looked overmatched at the plate, seems to know the strikezone and showed some plate discipline.
I guess Hughes was blocked in Tampa, and maybe they did the kid a favor getting him to another club, but 27 and no major leagus at bats?
Sign themselves a DH with some pop, and that should work for this year.

It'll be interesting to watch Snyder this year. Had a tough time at AAA after the mid season promotion. Seems like it takes him some time to figure it out at each level. He's only 22, so a solid yr at AAA would do him some good.

Why can't the Orioles be run by The Ravens organization? Yeah, I know..... Baseball as a sport is messed up, while the NFL has a salary cap. Still though, I'd take my chances with Bischotti, Ozzy and crew, even if they knew nothing about baseball. They'd bring with them one thing. A winners attitude. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

Heck yeah jim66, Let's try Aubrey at 1st. Let me ask you though. Will the Orioles give the fans a ticket discount this year? I'll pay good money to see Markakis, roberts and weiters and a couple others. But will they really charge full price as if they're fielding a complete, competitive major league team?

You seem willing to put anyone out there, as long as they're not a major league quality player, suited for a given position. I thought it was about winning games though jim66.

'We're # 31'

why would they give you a discount this year when they didn't discount your tickets any of the previous 12?

there are probably a bunch of players nobody liked when they got a job with a major league team. not everyone can be an all star. maybe the guy does a good job and holds the fort for a possible trade or someone from the minors. Jeez, that's all I was saying.

You people gotta lighten up. You all got the W1 virus. It's all about winning blahblahblah, like everyone likes losing.


if they cut the ticket prices, and with a dwindling fan base, they won't have money to overpay to bring guys in.

Oh I forgot, petey is loaded. jason. here's where you rant on...predictable


I've got to admit, a lot of these posters are telling the truth. Hardcore fans get caught up in these borderline prospects, perhaps for no other reason than to be able to say "I saw him first". And if there's one thing the O's have a lot of, it's borderline prospects.

I don't think Yankee fans are having lengthy conversations on their blogs about a 26 year old AAA player who hit .285 with 5HRs last year.

While it's fun to project a month's numbers out over the course of an entire season and say that Aubrey can hit .290 with 25HRs and 95RBIs next year, it's just not very likely to happen.

I'll admit, I do it too. I was so high on Montanez last year. And I honestly thought last year that I would have liked to have seen Oscar Salazar be out everyday thirdbaseman. I had all the numbers extrapolated and figured that ol' Oscar was a shoe-in to hit .350 with 30HRs!!!! Not to even mention the more distant past, Ryan Minor,Alex Ochoa, Calvin Pickering, Larry Bigbie, Jay Gibbons, the guy we traded for Jack Cust, Jack Cust and etc. etc. You get the point.

I guess the last thing the O's crush is the optimistic little kid in your heart.

hey, maybe that's what you guys do. get the Ravens owner to buy the O's!!Simple.

stop bitching about PA and get it done!!

Winners unite!!! Are you with me??

Pablo:

Aubrey's minor league numbers were 294-353-469 with an 823 OPS. Last year for the Os they were 289-326-500 with an 826 OPS.

While a hundred plate appearances aren't enough to come to any definative conclusions about him, based on what we've seen so far, his minor league numbers translated well to the majors.

Based on what he did for us last year, if Aubrey did the same over 650 PA this year, he'd hit 48 doubles, 27 HRs and drive in 96 runs. I'm not saying he will, just trying to give you an idea of the kind of performance you were seeing if you watched him play after Huff left last year.

I have no idea whether this kid is capable of being a starter. AM may well not think so and sign someone else. If so, I hope they find a spot for him. The guys a player. Maybe he takes Scott's place. Wouldn't have the striaght out power, but would still be a good bat and would be a plus defensively whenever he was in the game. Can't say that about Scott.

I never said aubrey was the O's permanent answer at first base.

If my end game is to try to land a Gonzalez or another big bat, why go sign a LaRoche or another player that i don't see as a long-term solution just because I have money? I might need that money soon enough.

here's where they argue that PA is loaded so who cares about money.and the WE WANT WINS chant begins, some of us get tagged as losers, and we no longer have a baseball discussion. Isn't that usually how it goes?

LaRoche gets traded as often as his baseball card...if i want him bad enough at some point, I can trade for one of the Duncan's, then trade the Duncan for him.
Jeez, you tink the guy was headed for a HOF career...

dj, every single team hypes their young players. every fan wants their team's young players to excel. To be the all star.
Realistically, if you can get 1 or possibly 2 great players out of your system, a few solid everyday guys, and some serviceable players, you're probably doing a pretty good job. If you can consistently do better than that, more power to you.

jim - Good teams don't hype 27-year-olds who wouldn't be in the majors if it weren't for a lack of better options.

bob - Aubrey's a fine hitter. And I wouldn't have a problem with him if he were an outfielder or a middle infielder. But he's a first baseman. The slight possibility if 20 homers from a first baseman in the AL East doesn't cut it.

djph:

Your point is well taken. "Hardcore fans get caught up in these borderline prospects, perhaps for no other reason than to be able to say "I saw him first".

The flip side of that though are fans who are so used to team management making bad trades for borderline prospects that they expect it and don't notice a good one that sneaks by.

I'll take your word for it that Aubrey doesn't have what it takes to be a full time first baseman, but I wouldn't discount the possibility of him being effective in a platoon, assuming you could get a good right handed bat to complement him that could also play good defence which excludes Wiggy from the discussion.

There are examples of platoons being pretty effective. Lowenstein and Roenoke. Garth Org and Rance Mulliniks nailed down third for the Jays for a number of years.

true, and I don't see the O's hyping either Aubrey or Hughes. But I'm not in Baltimore, so I guess their mugs could be on the bus ads or the MASN commercials.

According to ESPN's current postings the Oriole's roster is tied for the 5th youngest average age (26.5 years).

Might this have something to do with the fact we have the 26th highest payroll?

Also, the SF Giants are a good example of how bad contracts given during non-competitive years can hamstring a team looking to add FA's to a talented young nucleus.

It hurts when your 3 highest paid players are 3 of the worst on your 25-man roster:

1 Barry Zito 18,500,000
2 Aaron Rowand 9,600,000
3 Edgar Renteria 8,000,000

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants-headlines/ci_14098275

Cameron, all I can say is- you must be a warehouser to be making an audacious post like that.
How dare you dig a bit deeper and provide some detail, some fact....
Wouldn't it just be easier to yell '31'?


"Let's be the best at something...and it won't be hard."

Who does he play for Wayne? Cincy? or was he in the Oakland organization.

Verucca, you cannot have an Oompah Loompah now...

yeah Cameron, but Barry Zito is cool and he plays the guitar. Talk about panicking to get a guy... that negotiation must have involved Peter Griffin.

The best thing is when the O's get good, people will b*tch that they over paid for a guy that doesn't produce. Maybe they want the O's to sign someone like that, therefore in 3-4 years when the guy falls off, they will have something to complain about.

I call it the B*tching Pipeline. Just like in sales, gotta keep your pipeline filled.

jim66,

I would really like to get a look at Hughes. All the scouting reports say he has big time power. He turned 26 in September and sometimes players do get blocked in an organization.

The Orioles acquired a 27 year old first baseman from the Dodgers back in 1960. He spent 7 or 8 years at AAA with the Dodgers. I didn't google it but I think Gil Hodges had him blocked. He had a similar profile as Hughes, left handed all the way, smooth fielder, lot's of strikeouts and big time power. The Orioles gave him shot and in 1961 he hit 46 home runs and drove in over 140 runs.

His name was Jim Gentile. Now I'm not saying that Hughes will turn into Jim Gentile, but I hope the Orioles give him a good shot, because they have no one else in the system right now at first base with that kind of power. Brandon Waring is moving around from third to first and Brandon Snyder has not yet shown 20+ home run power, but the is young and may hit the ball out of Camden Yards easier than some of the minor league parks.

I AM really excited about a number of the Oriole prospects.

As I have said before, I give Andy Macphail an A+ when it comes to player development and prospect aquisition and I think I'll leave it at that. It's Sunday, the Ravens play later and it's so cold in harrisburg that my dog doesn't want to go out, so I need to leash her up and go for a walk.


GO Ravens!!

I only mentioned the Aubrey is a former first rounder in that he has talent. Not saying he deserves to play there because of it, but based on his talent and last years finish to the season, he deserves a shot. People like to latch onto mundane details when arguing.

And for the low salary ranking guys... The 2003 Florida Marlins had a $58 mil salary and beat the Yankees and their $6billion salary.

"Let's be the best at something...and it won't be hard."

How about having the best run organization in baseball that doesn't make bonehead signings that will strap them for years to come? (and yes, please infer that best run organization in baseball will lead to wins, that is very important when formulating your nonsensical retort)

Shamrock,

And which organization are you referring to? Is that non sensical enough for you?. Save that marketing puff piece for when the Orioles start to win, which incidentally I hope they do starting next year.

That's where Wayne and I differ. I do think the Orioles are doing some good things and will eventually turn the ship around. Once it turns around I think the Orioles will be a solid organization for years to come. I just hope it doesn't take another 3 or 4 years.

Let's WIN, then start blowing our horns. Right now I think it's a bit premature.

AIG management thought they were doing such a great job that they gave themselves 30 Billion in bonuses while the company was losing 300 billion.

Once we get some results on the field at the Major League level, Sham, I will be sitting in my regular seats screaming CHARGE along with the other fans. It just seeems a little hollow now.

But I give you credit for being positive and unrelenting under difficult circumstances and your loyalty will pay off down the road.

Ravens,

It's about the Ravens today. About a team and organization that has earned the respect of its fans.

They understand that it's about being competitive, playing meaningful games, not intimidating local media, and being honest with the fans.

The Orioles don't deserve to even be mentioned before or during a Ravens game. In fact, Ravens and Orioles should never be put in the same sentence, unless of course you're talking about the difference between WInners and Losers!

It will be great to watch World Series: Philadelphia Phillies, i have bought tickets from
http://ticketfront.com/event/World_Series_Philadelphia_Phillies-tickets looking forward to it.

It will be great to watch World Series: Philadelphia Phillies, i have bought tickets from
http://ticketfront.com/event/World_Series_Philadelphia_Phillies-tickets looking forward to it.

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About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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