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December 17, 2009

Zrebiec: No Holliday for O's?

First Mike Gonzalez, then Garrett Atkins, and now Matt Holliday? reported early this morning that the Orioles have “jumped into the bidding” for Holliday, the slugging outfielder who is regarded as the best bat on the free-agent market.

Don’t get too excited. The Orioles, according to sources, did have some discussions about Holliday with agent Scott Boras during their negotiations regarding Gonzalez. Any team would be interested in such a player, especially a club with a glaring need for a right-handed power hitter. However, the Orioles are quite realistic about their chances of landing Holliday. And privately, they have no expectations whatsoever that Holliday will be with the team next year.

The Orioles still feel his price tag will far exceed what they’re willing to pay, and they have no interest in being involved in a bidding war. That doesn’t mean they won’t stay on the periphery of the bidding and keep in touch with Boras. That does mean that barring a seismic change in the free-agent landscape and Holliday’s asking price, he will not be an Oriole.

Now, there are a couple of factors in the Orioles’ favor. Holliday is close friends with Atkins, the third baseman who was his former teammate with the Colorado Rockies. He is also very good friends with Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts. Before Roberts signed his extension with the Orioles last year, he was scheduled to hit free agency at the same time as Holliday. Roberts once told me that the pair had discussed how cool it would be play together, sort of like a package deal.

There is another connection. Holliday’s father, Tom, is friends with Orioles pitching coach Rick Kranitz and was one of his baseball coaches at Oklahoma State.

So, it does make a lot of sense in some ways, many detailed by the reporters. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

- Jeff Zrebiec

Posted by Baltimore Sun sports at 12:35 PM | | Comments (59)


Makes more sense to spend the extra money on Holliday instead of giving up a ton of prospects for Adrian Gonzalez, who will want even more money when he becomes a free agent...

My take on the situation is that if the O's were willing to pay Teixeira $20M+ per through his 36-year-old season, why not pay Holliday $18M+ per through his 36-year-old season?

Apparently the Cardinals are offering between $15M and $16M for somewhere between five and eight years and the Red Sox are only willing to get in on the bidding for less than what the Cards are offering.

Why not just toss out a take-it-or-leave-it six year $115M front loaded deal?

Sure, we've already got Reimold, and I know I've certainly advocated seeing what kind of numbers Reimold puts up while making a fraction of what Holliday will make. But if you sign Holliday, Reimold and his 25-30 hr potential becomes available to use as the co-headliner in a deal for a first baseman.

I know it's not very likely, but, since the Orioles do have the money, it does make sense.

Holliday wouldn't make the O's a contender, but Adrian Gonzalez could.

Why should the O's go and get an elite FA in his prime when they can just trot out a bunch of last place losers on the field every yr and still make HUGE profits?

O's were in the top 3 in profitability from 2002-2007 and 5th in 2008; despite being perennial bottom feeders with no hope of winning.

No sense spending any of Greedy Peteys money now. Theres always next yr (until next yr gets here) He likes Orioles money in his pockets not invested in the team. DIsgraceful malaka skyla

AS per usual, the baltimore "media" lets him get away with it. This crap wouldnt be happening in NY,PHI, BOS or any place with REAL sportswriters.

Jeff, Can you tell us, what is the O's budget for this year? Because if it's 75-85mil, the O's can afford to pay for a Holliday type(16-18mil a year) player. Andy said "grow pitching, buy bats".
Don't tell us that Atkins is our middle of the order right hand power bat, Andy has been talking about getting this off season.

jason -

Everyone in Baltimore knows all about what you're saying. You're not a visionary. It's nothing new.

So just do us all a favor and go away.

As much as I would like Holliday, I would hate to see Reimold go. I think the kid has a ton of potential, along with what he has shown already, as the O's LFer for years to come. he is patient at the plate, he has power, and he can steal bases. I would rather see them investing in him.

Considering the connections the Os had with Teixeira last season, I am inclined to think such connections usually mean little if one is hoping they offset all other factors like garuantee of contention, money, and/or years. Sure, I have high hopes and believe the Os are a team on the rise with a great young core, but, they aren't there yet, and Holliday has offers from big spending teams who are there right now.

Sign Holliday, trade (gulp) Adam Jones and Arrietta to San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez.

That would accelerate the timetable a bit....

Pure fantasy, of course.

Pete pete pete , this is the only time of the year an O's fan can hold his breath in anticipation. after the first pitch reality sets in.

Here's what we actually do know.ZERO except for the fact that Boras tends to take the high offer. What does privately the Orioles have no expectations mean? Seems to me that means that if you actually were told something it was off the record and you wrote it anyway. Holliday is a guy that probably doesn't want to play or live in a major metro area and his best friend just signed here yesterday, I really get sick of this newspaper sorrowful coverage of this team ,ROCH wrote what he knew not what he hoped or thought. The Sun would much prefer to print meaningless critical crap from its writers than provide balanced coverage.

lefty -

It's a blog.

Deal with it.

not brooks,

nothing you ever say hasnt already been said on the hangout, so why dont u go back over there and stop acting like you're running anything here, friggin toolbox

I guarantee not brooks is:

not thin
not good with the ladies
not living anywhere but someones basement
not remotely athletic
not employed

its always the biggest tools that like to act tough on message boards where they dont have to actually deal with anything hiding safely behind their mouses like the skyla they are, turd

Wow, jason.

Did I touch a nerve? My only point was that all of your posts are the same, and they're always negative, so why continue posting if you're going to continue being miserable?

Seriously, man. What's your problem?

And what's "the hangout"?

Not Brooks, while Jason's negativity isn't anything new, I wasn't aware that you had to be a visionary to post here. A Visionary? I mean really. Do you think that even posting or discussing the signing of Colorado platoon players actually warrants that kind of reaction?

not brooks, er not intelligent ah not in charge,

You're a cowardly tool who talks tough on a msg board, I guarantee you're a skyla in real life who craps his pants regularly

Seriously tool,

Stop trying to tell ppl what they can and cannot post.

Lefty and anyone else can write whatever they want. Last I checked, it was still a free country so why dont u go pick up the dog doody in the back yard like mommy said.

Nobody left u in charge, scumbag

beeb -

I didn't say anything about some visionary requirement.

It just bothers me when the self proclaimed realists who just know, without a doubt, that this team is going to be terrible for another decade come on here spouting crap about Angelos that everyone already knows.

And jason c is one of the worst, as you can see by his reaction at 1:50pm. He has no purpose here other than to stir the pot by posting and reposting essentially the same comments over and over again.

I am a visionary, if anyone is interested


holliday is far from an elite free agent. his batting numbers have slipped across the board for two consecutive seasons, though playing with Pujols made him look good for one hot minute last year, and he is little more than a mediocre fielder. he is not a franchise slugger, and i'm happy that the team isn't even considering him at that price tag. let the cards bid against themselves for him.

How am I "talking tough"? You're the one calling me a "coward", a "tool", a "scumbag" and a "skyla", whatever that is...

I'm simply sick and tired of you and wayne and blancione writing the same garbage in every single comment that you post.

We know you hate Angelos. We know he's a terrible owner.

And my comment to lefty was a reaction to his implication that bloggers shouldn't post opinion pieces. Seriously?

Finally, it's just as much my right to tell you (and wayne and blancione) to shut it as it is your right to keep posting.

So keep posting and I'll keep telling you to shut it and we'll all be happy.

shf9 -

You need to look at the context of Holliday's numbers.

In 2008, the guy missed 20 games and still hit 25 homers and drove in 88 while posting a .409 OBP, which was higer than his 2007 mark.

In 2009, he was traded twice, and the first trade took him to the least imposing team (Oakland was last in the AL in homers and slugging %) and the worst hitters' park a new league. And despite that, along with a miserable start to the season, Holliday still hit .286 with an .831 OPS in Oakland. Oh, and from May 4th to July 23rd (the day of his trade to the Cardinals), he hit .305 with an .892 OPS.

Put Holliday in a lineup with Nick Markakis, Adam Jones and Matt Wieters and let him play half of his games in OPACY and he'll put up big numbers for sure.


i'm looking strictly at WAR, isolated power and slugging percentage. considering isolated power alone, he dropped over 60 points from 2007 to 2009. i'm not saying he isn't a decent player. i'm saying he's not a franchise batter and not worth the $18M+ it would cost to bring him to town, even if it allows us to ship Reimold/Pie out to San Diego.

and Carlos Delgado was good friends with Melvin Mora....
and Mark Texeireia is from the Baltimroe area...
and so on. Connections with top free agents mean nothing. Players want to win.

Not Brooks, you've said it! I'd pay Holliday 16.5/18.0 yr for 8 years...what you overpay for in $$ (cause you gotta overpay to land a big FA) you get back in almost knowing for sure you're gonna get big production. In the next 5 years, the guy's gonna hit 160 hr and drive in 450-500 (lower end of that in the NL). If he hit cleanup for the Os with Roberts, Reimold, and Nick in front of him, he'd drive in 115. Said it before, FRONTLOAD THE DEAL, A-rod's making a lot more now than he will in the last year of his deal, you can look it up!

Buster Olney of writes that talks between the Orioles and free agent outfielder Matt Holliday are "dormant."

Not a surprise. According to Olney, the two sides had brief contact roughly ten days ago, however they haven't been active for a while and have since stopped. Signing Holliday is a nice thought for Baltimore, but they never had much of a chance to begin with. Dec. 17 - 2:33 pm et
Source: Buster Olney on Twitter

Buster Olney of writes that talks between the Orioles and free agent outfielder Matt Holliday are "dormant."

Not a surprise. According to Olney, the two sides had brief contact roughly ten days ago, however they haven't been active for a while and have since stopped. Signing Holliday is a nice thought for Baltimore, but they never had much of a chance to begin with. Dec. 17 - 2:33 pm et
Source: Buster Olney on Twitter

Matt Holliday would tear it up in Camden Yards and would be well worth the investment to protect Markakis & Weiters in the line up. Some say his defense is a liability. But, I saw him play plenty of times at Coors Field and he can cover some ground...something he won't have to worry about at CY. Also has a canon of an arm.

Sign him Andy. This isn't an average player at the end of his career who won't be productive ala Fred Lynn, Lee Lacy, Will Clark and every other free agent the O's have signed, sans Alomar.

Does anyone really think a combination of Reimhold and Pie can put up the same numbers as Holliday? They couldn't hold his jock.

Why don't you bunch of guys(?) take your fighting to emails and leave the blogging to sports.
IF Reimold can produce (really produce)in a year or two, then hold Jones out there and see what you ca get in a package with Gonzales or some other big-time player. Jones' low salary should be an inticement. The Crow won't miss seeing him whiff at a curveball down and away as he is want to do , particularly on strike three. Additionally, Jones is a lazy ballplayer and, since he banged into the wall pretty hard in '08, he doesn't go after deep flyballs to center as agressively as he did. maybe he's thinking that you don't make the All Star Team on the DL.
By the way, did anyone notice that, after Johnson was taken in the Rule 5 Draft, that McT traded Sherril even-up for Josh Bell. Boy, did he outfox the Dodgers, huh?

The O's “jumped into the bidding” for Teixeira as well, but we saw what happened. Angelos won't pay. Plain and simple. You have a crusty old man with a foot in the grave, running an organization for a sport that he does not have any passion for whatsoever. Heck, I don't even think he knows what a double play is.

Unless we're moving Reimold to 1st base, why would Holliday be the guy we make a move for? Reimold, Pie, Jones, Markakis. We actually have a pretty good outfield, including depth at the position.

Now Adrian Gonzalez on the other hand...

Ryan K -

Adding Holliday to the team makes Reimold expendable. In other words, adding Holliday makes it possible to include Reimold in a package that brings Adrian Gonzalez to Baltimore.

Pipe dreams, I know, but they're fun...

Perhaps we should just trade Wieters, Jones, Markakis, Roberts and Reimold to Boston, Philly, NYM, and NYY for their entire farm systems and plan on competing in 2015. Maybe by then we will have a new owner who will actually pay the price that it cost to get top quality players.

Guys The Orioles have been on Holliday for years now.....

Ahhh another year of watching the best Free Agents slip away.. Hopefully sooner or later delusional Baltimore fans, sports writers etc come around and finally hold this team accountable for hoarding our money and trotting a train wreck on to the field each year.

Maybe we could take Adam Jones and try to turn him into a WR deep threat. He might have the body for it.

Guys haven’t you noticed that Angelos and Boras play games each year to drum up the prices for other teams? Holiday is staying in STL and we are just the help he needs to drum up his payday.

Pay the man!!! What the heck does it matter? Twelve straight losing seasons you gotta roll the dice. Then trade some of those "prized" prospects for AGon. Are you kidding me? Just do it!!

Pay the man!!! What the heck does it matter? Twelve straight losing seasons you gotta roll the dice. Then trade some of those "prized" prospects for AGon. Are you kidding me? Just do it!!

beyond hope, who do u think they are, the pirates? lol.

anyway, i'd love to have holliday in an o's uniform, but i'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. if it happens, great! if it doesn't they still have reimold, who IMO is a great player capable of hitting .280-.290 with about 30 hr's. could be a solid middle of the order hitter for years to come.

Does all this talk really matter?
Aren't the Yankees in the market for another outfielder, especially if Damon takes off?

Does all this talk really matter?
Aren't the Yankees in the market for another outfielder, especially if Damon takes off?

Why lose Nolan? Put him at 1st base.

Maybe I'm late to the party but why is Jeff's Blog now posted under Peter's Blog?

not brooks aka not bright

I dont think that you're supposed to skip doses of your medication.

It gives you delusions of grandeur that someone would actully listen to what a douche like you would say

I call u a coward cuz u talk trash on msg boards.

When was the last time you told a stranger to shut up to their face ?

Why would you tell a stranger shut up to his face?

jason -

Again with the insults. How, again, is it that I'm the one who's "talking trash"?

And sure, if a stranger kept running up to me, yelling and calling me names and telling me something I already know over and over again, I'd certainly tell him to shut up.

jason in south florida, Whats up with the personal attacts??? Grow up!

Holliday is a definitely a game-changer, just keep replaying his dropped line drive in the pivotal game of the 2009 NLDS.

Cameron -

Good one.

But don't forget the context of that play and what happened afterwards.

Holliday dropped a line drive that allowed James Loney to get to second base, but no runs scored on the error, as there was no one on base, and there were already two outs.

After the error, Cards closer Ryan Franklin gave up a walk and a run scoring single before Yadi Molina allowed a passed ball. With a runner on second, Franklin allowed another walk before he gave up the game winning single.

So it's not really that simple. Holliday certainly didn't help, but if Franklin could have avoided that post-error meltdown, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

And don't forget that Cardinal shortstop Brendan Ryan came up with a runner on second base three times where a base hit would have given the Cards an insurance run. In those three at bats, Ryan recorded a ground out, a strikeout, a fly out and zero rbi.

Oh, and Holliday himself drove in the first run of the game, and the only run for the Cards until the 7th, with a solo home run.

In the end, it was an ugly error, but Holliday certainly wasn't the main reason the Cardinals lost that game and, eventually, the series.

Jason in Florida,

you sound like a terrible person. you should stop posting here. seriously. this blog was just fine before you started bringing your trash here. the only kind of people who go straight to personal attacks like those are people who are trying to overcompensate for those exact deficiencies.

not brooks - you should stay. none of the decent people who post here with any regularity agree with any of the trash this guy is posting.

anyway...back to baseball...i too have been dreaming of the idea of holliday in left and A gonz at first. I'd be willing to trade (1) tillman or arrieta, (2) pie or reimold, (3) snyder and (4) hernandez or patton or erbe or britton. i think that deal would match the red sox and then some. It's a steep price, but it's a price in prospects we can afford to pay. our pitching prospects would still be largely intact. And our lineup would be so nasty it's almost ridiculous. And, holy crap, would that shut all the critics up!

Maybe it's just me, but I think the real "toolbox" around here is one who uses words like "friggin", and types like a 14-year-old teenager text-messaging her friends... "u", "ppl", "msg", "cuz". That pretty much tells us all we need to know about the author's maturity level.

I did enjoy the irony that a person would write 3 posts on a message board containing no fewer than 16 insults while accusing a fellow participant of being a "cowardly tool who talks trash on msg (sic) boards".

Take it easy on Jason C you guys. You'll get him so upset he'll miss the bus.

Is it 13 losing seasons and counting? Does holliday provide us a legit fix to our #4 spot and cover for Nick. If so can someone please over pay so we don't get to 13 or 14 in a row. It's been so many I've lost count.

The signing of adrian or holiday is not going to make the o's a contender. Reminder: We are in the AL EAST people! One power bat is not going to make a difference against the likes of ny or beantown. Secondly this off-season was kind of thin, I'm thinking next year will be deeper. So if we can get to .500 and show other players that we can (and more importantly WANT) to win, they will want to come and play here in b'more.

I think its funny how people like "not brooks" try to tell those with different opinions to go away, as if there is some sort of blog ettiquette being violated. If you don't like someone's opinion, just move on or argue back. Why should anyone have to go away? Is the view of the optimistic the only one that should be voiced? To each his own.

To the "one power bat won't make a difference" fools, we have to start somewhere! Its not like this org is going to pick up the 2 or 3 that are needed all at the same time, right? So what's wrong with grabbing one this year (Holliday, make a great offer now!) and one next year? No one is implying that signing Holliday will make the O's a championship team, but its beyond time to start putting some real pieces together, even if its one by one. Plus, that one power bat might help turn other bats we have into the missing parts that will put us over the top. No excuses!

we can start "somewhere" by not overpaying a guy for 5 years. i don't care how good holiday is, he isnt worth what it take to get him here. plus the fact that his offensive numbers are pretty mediocre against AL east opponents. continue to build around pitching and defense because great pitching/defense will always beat out great hitting.

Why can't we get Holliday and Gonzalez? Sign one trade for the other and have a line-up that would be in the top 3 in baseball!

Roberts 2B
Jones CF
Markakis RF
Gonzalez 1B
Holliday LF
Wieters C
Reimold DH
Atkins 3B
Izturis SS

Guthrie,Bedard or Sheets


Now That is something to get excited about!!!

Its unfortunate that we would be out of the Holliday sweeptakes. As much as I think we have made some decent moves this offseason, espcially the Millwood trade and signing Gonzalez, I feel that we should atleast add one marquee player. Not just any marquee player, but one that fits our mold, someone relatively young, someone that could be used batting cleanup, and someone ultimately that we can use for a position we need like first base.
Thats why I am up for either trading for A. Gonzalez, or even M. Cabrera. Heck if that doesnt work, why not try to sign Holliday. Use him in left, make Reimold DH, he already has been banged up alot, might help him out more, or even move him to first. Why not try Holliday at first? I mean cant be any worse than what we have there now. Bottom line is what Im trying to say, lets go out there and get someone that can fill seats, someone young that will be here for a while, and most important bring someone in that shows the fans, our players, and the league that Baltimore is for real again, because if we keep pushing back to next year, than next year , than next year, all these center pieces, ie, Holliday, Gonzalez, Cabrera, Pujols even, will be gone. Future, New York Yankees and Boston Redsox players. We need do something quick and now, and I can guarantee you, we get that marquee player, to play with our young guys, wow, you will see alot of fight and motivation coming from everyone.

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About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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