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December 5, 2009

Winter Meetings dead ahead

If you're wondering whether there is more than one way to interpret the headline on this item, you're pretty sharp. Orioles beat reporter Jeff Zrebiec and I are leaving for Indianapolis tomorrow morning to bring you minute-by-minute coverage of baseball's Winter Meetings, which officially start on Monday and run through Thursday.

The Orioles have been downplaying the possibility of any major moves during the next four days, but we can only hope some other team locks Andy MacPhail in a room and convinces him to accept a middle-of-the-order hitter.

That's not out of the question, since there's talk that some teams are hurting financially and are going to be trying to get off some big contracts. The O's have room on their payroll -- they better have at this point -- if an attractive deal comes along that doesn't require them to trade Brian Matusz, Chris Tillman or Jake Arrieta. I'm guessing the momentum for anything like that would have to come from another team, based on the noises coming out of the Warehouse, but we can dream.

What do you think will happen?

Radio plug: Tune in at noon for a marathon Saturday edition of "Sportsline" on WBAL (1090 AM). I'll preview the Winter Meetings with Zrebiec and I'll bring in Jamison Hensley to break down Monday night's game between the Ravens and Packers at Lambeau Field. If you're not in signal range, go to WBAL.com and click on the "Listen Live" icon. Of course, we'll be taking calls at 410-467-WBAL and 1-800-767-WBAL.

Column plug: My weekly "News Item" column for today's print edition is also up on the Web site. You can read it right here and let me know what you think.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 11:11 AM | | Comments (59)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

I have tried to be patient. I was born the year after the Orioles won the World Series in 83, and have been conscious for two winning seasons. The vast majority of my experience with this team has been disappointment, despair, and lately apathy. I tell myself that if we don't do anything this offseason that I'm done. Of course, I know that's not true. I'll keep falling for the same bs, keep talking myself into Ty Wigginton and Felix Pie, and keep watching other teams celebrate winning seasons.

I guess my only question for MacPhail is, if not now, when? There are plenty of good players available either through trade or free agency, and the Orioles aren't seriously linked to any of them. How much longer are we going to say wait til next year? Or, wait til our prospects get here. Or, wait til the next round of prospects get here, because those first prospects weren't very good? How much longer are we going to pay hard earned dollars to see a team that has seemingly no interest in competing?

Of course, the answer to those questions is that I'll wait forever, because unfortunately Orioles baseball is a part of my blood. Thanks, dad.

I don't think Arrieta is in the same class of prospect as Matusz or Tillman based upon his 3A performance at Norfolk.

Peter,

I'm listening in via the internet from Virginia Beach and agree with your comment that we need to make something happen more than the Cesar Izturis signing and the known less than market offer for Mark Teixeira which was really just an appealing-to-fan-publicity token effort.

On the positive side, I do like the Chad Moeller resigning. Offensively, he was better than just a catch & throw backup guy.

Pete.
I can honestly say that I'll be happy if the O's don't make a "big splash" at the winters meetings. Other than John Lackey, there is not a FA available that is a significant upgrade over the inexpensive players we already have on our 40 man roster. Is Beltre at 10mill x 4years a good decision? No way. Remember Melvin Mora's deal. Exactly! Last year if we made the big splash for Tex and Burnett, that would have filled 2 huge holes with quality guys. Very expensive, but it would have filled big holes long term, protecting Markakis and dropping our young pitchers one spot in the rotation.
Signing a pitcher this year like Garland or Marquis or any other guy with an era over 4 in the NL...That equals an era over 5 in the AL East. Signing Nick Johnson or Feliz to fill a corner spot makes NO sense. Let Wiggy hit. Let Luke Scott hit. Let Aubry and other young guys hit. Get Pie in the line-up. Trading for a big bat costs us our young pitching depth and then we still have to pony up a fat contract extension. Angelos ought to save his millions for midnight ambulance-chaser commercials and wait til next year. Frankly, I will pay to see young players give there all before I pay to see Feliz hitting his .235 w/ no plate discipline. We missed out on 2 good ones last year and their equals are not on the market, save for Lackey, and no reports indicate he wants to play in Charm City. Let the youngsters play! Let 'em run the bases. Let Terry Crowley work with 'em and see what they got. At least that will be an interesting story line for more of these blog posts.

How about bringing back Miguel Tejada for third base...say a 2 year deal and an option which would give us a quality bat until Josh Bell is ready. Tejada has a decent OBP and would bring leadership and energy to the clubhouse. My 2nd choice for a FA is Hank Blalock. He is only 28 and has better years ahead.

How about bringing back Miguel Tejada for third base...say a 2 year deal and an option which would give us a quality bat until Josh Bell is ready. Tejada has a decent OBP and would bring leadership and energy to the clubhouse. My 2nd choice for a FA is Hank Blalock. He is only 28 and has better years ahead.

Yeah, it's kind of sad when you've got orioles in your bood and the hope that somehow, someday, they'll finally get it together. That maybe the light will go on at the warehouse and they'll realize when a great baseball town this could be if they could just go for it. I mean make a splurge, talk Harden and Sheets, make an offer to Lackey, see what it'll take to get a Blanks from SD and make a real move.
But sadly, those of us who've been around this for the last 12 years realize that we'll get a Pedro Feliz and maybe a Delgado and the promise of what's coming next year in Bell and Arrieta. So, no use in dreamin big this year...we're building for next year.....or is it the year after that?

what do I think will happen? nothing.

"The Orioles have been downplaying the possibility of any major moves during the next four days..."

Well that's unfortunate.

I guess we're stuck with Aubrey and Wigginton at the corners, Scott at DH and some has-been or never was filling out the rotation after Guthrie, Matusz, Tillman and Bergesen.

Honestly, with the modest deals going out to Chone FIggins and Marco Scutaro, I figured the O's might actually get a couple of one or two year deals done early for 1st and 3rd base.

Yawwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn,

Talk is cheap, and if the warehouse thinks that Snyder and Bell will be here in two years, I suggest dream on! Our record of developing everyday players to the major league level is pitiful. So as a betting man, as far as I would go is to venture that just one of the two will pan out. That said whomever you sign now could be moved to DH, so no long term loss in production.

However, the O's will do their usual, we talked to everyone and there are FAs out there that meet our needs and then sign the guys no one else wants! Face it guys, I don't expect anything to happen so I hope they have some good entertainment there for you! Maybe you could follow Scott Boras around and see how real major league teams conduct business!

"Winter Meetings Dead Ahead" ... Dead ahead is right.

It's more of the same!! I remember PA saying several seasons back that the O's were going to be spenders in the FA market and Andy said they were going to make waves this winter, now they are backing off and saying don't expect anything! The O's management and ownership needs replaced IMHO. That good old conservative approach.

I'm going to have to agree with Will A.
Nothing of any importance will happen.
The Sun should save the plane fare.

Pete,
Both Bedard and Tejada re not A nor B type free agents. Both could be effective stop-gap veterans on this team. Why not sign them to 1 year or 2 year contracts? In Bedard's case, it might take a 3 year contract to sign him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see just about anything. I think like last year Andy will wait while other clubs start setting the market while keeping tabs on "bargain" players with good potential.

Dlegado, no.
Bedard yes.

imho.

can you believe espn that mark derosa is trying get 3 yrs, 27? does derosa realize he's a utility player who hit .250 last year and were in a recession???

betre is def not worth $40/4.

whats with chone figgins going to the crappy mariners ???


didnt realize Figgins is 32

I don't expect the O's to sign a first or a third baseman any time soon. And it may not be a bad strategy since there is not much left after Figgins is gone. Orioles would likely have Russel Branyan or Adam LaRoche as their first baseman since Delgado still interests Mets. And I'd be surprized if it's not Pedro Feliz at the hot corner.

This FA class is terrible compared to what is coming up next year. Stand pat, let the kids play and see which ones are for real this year. Then you will know what true holes you need to fill and there will be many more options to fill those holes next year. Just do some homework and look at next years free agent class and compare it to this years and tell me I'm wrong. We should not be trading away any of our young talent until the earliest next year.

agree with D.

but we do need an Arm. Bedard, Harden, or MAYBE Sheets.

AGAIN... dead ahead.. the O's will do NOTHING... and again next year they will flirt with or surpass 100 losses... i do believe PA wants to move this team .. say INDY!
why would this team continue to lose every year if that's not the case.. look for the Orioles to head to Indianapolis .. sooner than you think!

Previously, AM said this yr was supposed to be about wins and losses--they keep telling us to "wait til next yr" but when next yr becomes this yr, nothing happens!!!

Lookie what Dandy Andy said last yr: "I told Dave earlier this afternoon, 'I think we're out of Phase One,'" he said. "And that's the most destructive and the toughest phase, where you're essentially tearing down and you've got the real construction in front of you. You dealt off your more attractive players to other clubs -- or at least some of them, anyway -- and you've brought in a nucleus of young talent. So we're out of Phase One now going forward, and where we are now, in my estimation, is we're going to move back to the more traditional criteria of evaluating managers: Wins and losses. It may not always be fair. Things happen, but from this point going forward, I'd like to think we're out of that first stage of what we'd hoped to do.

"To give him every chance going forward and to win as many games as we can and show meaningful improvement in the standings, which I think we need to do starting in 2010, it's our job in the front office -- mine specifically and in particular -- to augment, to give him as much help as we possibly can going towards that goal."

Maybe AM should try keeping his word, yet Im willing to bet vital organs that the apologists will have a defense for this one too


I agree with wbalfan66, Bedard and Tejada would be a great addition. We could platoon at first/DH with Wiggy, Scott and Aubrey.

NO NO NO to bringing Tejada back. I can't believe people on here are asking for him. If memory serves me correctly, he wasn't exactly a great presence in the clubhouse. Oh, and one more important FACT. Where did the Orioles finish in the standings all the years Tejada was here as a much younger player, and during his "B12" years? I'd rather see Pedro Feliz than Tejada; and that's not saying much.

Jason,

You want MacPhail to keep his word? Re-read that quote you just posted. He was very guarded in making that statement ("I think," "in my estimation," "things happen," etc.) All he's doing is acknowledging responsibility. It's kind of hard--impossible actually--to use that as evidence that Andy hasn't been "keeping his word." I'm not saying anyone is above criticism, but you are gonna have to wait until he does something, or until specific windows of opportunity are closed and he hasn't acted.

Do you realize MacPhail made that statement on Oct 2, barely 2 mos ago? You emphasize wins and losses in bold print (and I'm not suggesting we ended '09 with a strong group of players), but the team is exactly 3-0 1.000 since he made that statement. He was saying 2010 is to be evaluated by the W-L record and you're gonna have to wait and see what happens before declaring it a failure.

Reality Check,

I'm undecided about Tejada, but you think he shouldn't return based on the Orioles' results with him on the team? Your "FACT" is silly for several reasons. Have they Orioles done better since they traded him away? No, they've been worse! Why are you isolating the guy who was probably the best player on the '04-'07 teams? Perhaps the '72 Phillies would've been better without Steve Carlton?? I'm sure there's a case for not bringing Miggy back, but you just ain't makin' it.

Jonathan,

Youve glossed over the show meaningful improvement in the standings, which I think we need to do starting in 2010 which was practically the point of my post. Idk what kind of fan u are, but 1 common theme throughout the 12 yrs of losing has been the promise of getting better NEXT YEAR. the problem is that whenever NEXT YEAR gets here, nothing ever happens

I dont need to wait until 2010 is over to declare it failure, Ill go on record now as saying it will be a colossal failure, I can see the way things are lining up now, we'll probably start 2010 with most of the same roster-- with no significant talent upgrades. moreover, Id be willing to bet large sums of money that the O's reach their 13th consecutive losing season this yr. Im also willing to bet that ppl who claim to be fans will be ok with it because "AM is doing it the right way", despite no tangible evidence to the contrary, other than AM is a little better than his predecessors--which isnt exactly an astounding achievement considering the dopey lapdogs that have occupied the FO b4 AM

How do u see this season playing out ? Will the Os show meaningful improvement like AM says we need to show, IF so, how meaningful?

Jason,

I'm saying your judgement is entirely premature. At the tail end of the '09 season, MacPhail said we can evaluate 2010 based on wins and losses. I do believe there will be "meaningful improvement," and my own definition of that is something vaguely close to .500. But actual predictions are voodoo enough as it is, let's wait to see who's gonna be on the team. Keep in mind that a mere 74-win season would be better than 9 of the last 10 yrs, and 10 more wins than last yr. I hope it's better than that, because I'm sick of losing too.

I'm as critical as anyone of previous FO administrations as anyone, because each one seemed to be digging the hole a little deeper. I don't know how things would look if we had Cashman or Gillick, but for once, we are showing steady improvement in terms of talent and MacPhail deserves credit for that. No sense running him out of town because he didn't turn a horrible franchise into an AL East contender in his 2nd full yr. I'm with you on the frustration, but for once we are not doing the same old thing expecting different results.

So we are afraid to trade for talent because we have a rookie with a 5+ era in the bigs and another with 4.5+? Getting kinda tired of wishing on maybes, how about someone whose proven for a chance. At this points any player who would be more then a 4th starter on any other team. Guthrie? Barely worthy of the Jays rotation.

So we are afraid to trade for talent because we have a rookie with a 5+ era in the bigs and another with 4.5+? Getting kinda tired of wishing on maybes, how about someone whose proven for a chance. At this points any player who would be more then a 4th starter on any other team. Guthrie? Barely worthy of the Jays rotation.

the orioles will not do anything at the winter meetings. the yankees will get john lackey if they don't resign andy pettet.then again they will sign both,lackey and pettet

Jonathan,

AM was run out of Chicago for his ultra-conservative approach and having a stronger commitment to the bottom line than the Win column ( 5 of 12 winning seasons-- ..475 winning pct, improved profitability) I';ve seen nothing to expect things to be any different here

Ppl who put their faith in AM are fooling themselves and will eventually figure it out -- some sooner, some later, some not at all

For the Orioles to get that clean-up hitter they want, they're gonna have to give up some talent by the name of Matusz, Tillman or Arrieta.

To get Holliday or Bay, they're gonna have offer the same contract they offered Teixiera last year. Because no current big name F/A in their right mind is going to come to Baltimore at "market value" after 12 years of losing. So lets be realistic here.

Also, to trade for Adrian Gonzalez or whichever player you people have been harping over, the trade will have to include Matusz, Tillman or Arrieta plus Adam Jones or Matt Wieters - maybe both. Your pie in the sky pipe dreams like "Adrian Gonzalez for Luke Scott, Erbe, Snyder, Britton", is the most rediculous thing I've seen here.

It's no wonder you all sound so jaded because your expectations have no basis to it. BTW, the only way for the Orioles to have long term success is to lock up their younger players LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM IS DOING. If you haven't already noticed, it's not uncommon these days for a team to give a 23 year old an 8 year contract, which is the oppisite of how teams operated 10 years ago or even 5 years ago.

The O's aren't going to get Holliday or Bay and I hope they don't go after Beltre, Delgado, Feliz or whatever past-thier-prime scrub that's on the market. Whatever impact MacPhail is going to make is going to be on the trade market. And he's gonna have to give up a big prospect to do so, like it or not.

jason,

As an Orioles fan that has lived in Chicago for the past 8 years I must say that you couldn't be more wrong. When we hired AM the sentiment in Chicago (writers and fans) was that he was probably a good fit for the job. They had no ill will about AM (the truth is there was one writer that had a major axe to grind while he was in Chicago and the rest thought he did a solid job). Like anyone he has his faults, but his strength was seen as being able to build a talented club from scratch...which is exactly what the O's needed. We are all frustrated with losing but I don't get how you say there is no eveidence of improvement. Last year was brutal in terms of won-loss but it was a huge success in getting the young talent some time in the big leagues. It's naive to think that there is a quick fix (that is actually what got us in this mess in the first place). I completely understand if you can't stand the losing...but no one is forcing you to stay.

Merry Xmas Dave, you are just full of joy. I was listening to the AM interview this evening, he said the only way we can compete is by developing our own. So he has no plan to pay for a over priced FA or trading our prospects. It will take tears to complete what he has started so we will take it one step at a time. Next level is mediocrity using second tier FA's.

Sorry Freudian slip, It will take Years to complete what he has started so we will take it one step at a time.

Unless detroit overwhelmed us with a cabrera deal that doesn't include matusz or tillman then just make some offers to bedard and/or harden and come home. A beltre commitment for more than 2 yrs. makes no sense.

Unless detroit overwhelmed us with a cabrera deal that doesn't include matusz or tillman then just make some offers to bedard and/or harden and come home. A beltre commitment for more than 2 yrs. makes no sense.

I know this off the topic, but since this is the holiday season I figure I would get some good input (or crazy responses) from this group. I'm interested in getting a computer game for baseball. In my youth I used play strat-o-matic baseball (and football), now I'm looking for the best computer. Any opinions?

PS - some of us can't deal with the real game... :-)

What the chance of bring up the youg guys at the corners this year? Forget about FA's at those positions and focus on a vet or two in the rotation or bullpen. I know the O's have had little success in the past developing position players, but no is not the year to start buying so-so talent...Lets take our lumps w/ the kids and go after FAs next year...next year...next year...its always next year....

I wanna know who it is exactly that these people clamoring for a big sign would go after?

Holliday? Bay? Those guys are the cream of the crop in this year's FA hitters market.

Number 1, neither of them is a solid #4 hitter. They're 3 or 5 slot guys, which we already have plenty of.

Number 2, where do those guys play? LF. We don't need a LF. We've got an up and coming LF in Nolan Reimold. You wanna cut the plug on him right now?

Number 3, you're gonna pay those guys over $15 million a year for at least 5 years, versus paying Reimold under a million. He's got the power to hit 30 home runs, but will more likely give you 25 or so. Bay or Holliday may give you 30-35. Are 5-10 home runs worth $15 million dollars?

Consider that next year, the free agent market for pitchers is going to be significantly better, with Halladay and Lee available, among others. In two years, you'll have Adrian Gonzales and Prince Fielder available. If you tie up a bunch of money this year in guys that aren't worth it, just so you can compete (which isn't even a guarantee), then you're knocking yourself out of the race before it even begins.

So taking chances on older guys/guys with injuries is the way to go. Guys like Sheets, Bedard, and Delgado have something to prove and would likely sign shorter, incentive laden deals for less money. Whether you're blocking someone like Bell isn't the issue. If there were a 3B on the market that was worth blocking him with, it might be done, but that person isn't out there. So why over-pay for someone like Beltre long term when you're not guaranteeing he's gonna produce like he did pre-Seattle? Same thing goes for 1B. You can't sign a player who isn't there to be signed.

The Orioles have to decide on whether or not to do a full rebuilding project.

If they are going to rebuild they need to:

NOT sign any high priced FA., even mid priced FA. Why get stuck with a contract of a player who is older and will start slipping in production.

Get rid of older talent while they still have trade value. C Ya Brian Roberts. If trading Roberts can bring us a Adam Jones, let's make that deal. The Padres in 92 trade Sheffield and got their closer for the next 15 years that included a WS appearance.

The 1983 WS was the crowning achievement for the Orioles from the mid 70's. Three players were stolen from the Yankees in a 1976 trade, Dempsey, Tippy Martinez and Scotty Mac. The Orioles gave up Rudy May, Doyle Alexander, and Elrod. We need to make that type of trade.

Forget about trading for Adrian G, yes he is good but he won't be around when all the kids grow into being major league players.

Continue the development of the minor leagues. It is not just the high draft picks but all draft picks that need to be a concern. If you're 1st round pick bombs but you got 2-3 solid players from the lower rounds, that softens the 1st rounder being a bust.

Signing Tejada and Bedard would definitely boost the attendance. Tejada is willingly to play 3rd and Bedard would not cost as most other free agent SPs. Then Oriole minor league players would not have to be rushed to the majors as was the case in 2009. In fact, any players that needed more seasoning could start the season iat AAA- Norfolk. I think they ought to consider getting Pedro Martinez, too - but as a closer not a starter.

Pete,
Your column this morning is dead on target. Why are the O's reactive vs. proactive in the off season? Does everyone have to be a bargain from the leftover pile vs. getting a desired player to fill a hole at a "fair" price. Trades may be a different "animal" because of the other team's salary considerations, but not FA signings.

Sure, the kids are coming and they are still a year or 2 away but, as a fan, to continually sign the "scraps" in Jan. is very disappointing, if not deflating. Very few turn out to be a "find", like Abreu was last year.

Sign Feliz (if they must), a starter with potential (Harden, Bedard, Sheets) another righty bat (Glaus. Nady) and a closer of choice (too many to mention) and not wait for the dust to settle and hope to get lucky. Then the fans might actually get somewhat excited and buy some tickets.

It's funny that Tejada and Bedard are mentioned here as options as most fans wanted them run out of town just a couple of years ago! I can't see either player even wanting to come back to Baltimore unless no other team is interested.
We all know that McPhail won't sign any big name free agent or make any significant trade but in the long run, that's not a bad thing. Let's rebuild the right way by keeping the core players and having faith that those young pitchers and position players are as good as the scouts say they are.

78-86

76-86

Christmas is drawing closer and closer and all you dylusional fans that have your stockings all hung by the fire will wake up with nothing but coal and switches in them. You will be so disappointed that no major additions will have been , but the fact is you will deserve it. Why because you will have let Andy the Great buffalo all of you for another year.Keep wishing people MERRY CHRISTMAS How many years are going to go by before all of you wake up.

TerryP,

Most fans didn't want them run out of town. There was some concern about trading two of the best players the Orioles had in a long time, especially trading them for prospects most of us were at best vaguely familiar with. We traded them largely because they had value we couldn't utilize. This yr, it's all about what it might cost to acquire them. Bedard's value has dropped because of injuries. Tejada appeared in the Mitchell Report and he's also aged four yrs since the '07 trade. Both are non-A/B free agents, so giving up prospects isn't a factor if I understand that correctly.

I say we sign holliday. trade pie and scott for some minor league players that were drafted this past june. this would resupply are minor league talent and get our middle of the line up player. i would give up a second round draft pick for this. the four outfielders could share time at DH. Next i would sign the best pitcher that we don't have to give up any draft picks for. i would love to have cabrara at first. we were going to give tex 140 million. we can give cabrara 127 million. could you imagine with holliday and cabrara in the line up. their offense would give the O's win some of those 8 to 7 games that our young pithers will have and hope that the young pitchers mature fast. if not we have to pieces for next year and might only need a # 1 pitcher next year. give up the talent in the minors for carbrara and resupply with trading scott and pie. we still have the number 3 pick this june and our #1 pick last year to work with.

Chad,

Im glad your ego gives u the illusion that u speak for the entire city of chicago, but Id willing to bet you my house that if we conducted a poll in the CHi newspapers about the MacFail (phrase coined in chicago) regime, there would be a clear majority that considered it an abject failure.

I know a lot of so-called "fans" just blindly support whatever the FO does because its easier to defend an incompetent FO than formulate your own opinions.

You suggested I relinquish my fan ship. I ask who is the better fan ? the one who makes excuses for losing or the one who demands results? Do u really even care or do u just like preaching patience on the internet and make dishonest characterizations of AM's rep in CHitown ? -- APologists like you make me sick because you have helped allow this travesty to perpetuate itself yr after yr--SHow me a gracious loser and Ill show u a busboy--- now go clear table 9

Can u apologists give it a break already? . MacPhail himself said this yr was supposed to be about "MEANINGFUL IMPROVEMENT" yet he proceeds to act like there is nothing he can possibly do to improve the roster in a meaningful way-- I got news for you, relievers who arent good enough to get a decent FA classification, Pedro Feliz and some Adam Eaton type starter does not give the Os its best chance for "MEANINGFUL IMPROVEMENT"

MacPhail joined the O's in june of 07, so stop acting like Im impatient. Its funny, when he was hired, ppl talked about 2009-2010 to be the yrs we started to contend. Well guess what, we're 3 wks from 2010, but nowhere close to contending. I dont see how you can call yourself a "fan" and be OK with it, I suggest you look up the meaning of the word

Jason c i am so glad somebody else finally step up and spoke his mind about what is going on with this team. You are 100% right , but it's a real shame that we are still the minority when it comes to this team this front office and especiallthe the king himself andy M. I see that you are in south fla so that must be the explanation for your clear thinking, because i swear i truly believe the drinking water in this town has severly affected the way the people think in regards to not only the orioles but also ralph fridge and the terps. Never have seen so many apologists gather in the same place in my life. And that goes for certain sports writers as well.

jason c,

Thank you for your childish tirade. Now that I've had a chance to see how intelligent and eloquent you are I realize that you were right about Chicago and AM (no need to bet your trailor). Obviously you would know better than I superfan.

I love dealing with the self important type of fan that you (and evidently your buddy blancione...ouch) seem to be. Anyone that sees both the positive and the negative are koolaid drinkers while you are the martyr that will say what nobody has the courage to say. Talk about ego. Now I have to go clear table 6...your words cut me jason c.

ChadeePoo,

Hows that for childish? Id rather be childish than a shameless apologist but theres nothing childish about calling a bullshiznitting liar a bullshiznitting liar. If u really think AM is held in high regard in CHitown, Im surprised that they let internet access at the insane asylum, so if you're not crazy, then u must be a liar

Tell me, why did they like AM so much ?

Was it his 5 of 12 winning seasons ?

His .475 winning pct

2 of 12 postseason appearences ?

He acquired the MacFAil moniker bcuz of all his success? ? lmwao
U call yourself a fan? yet u are ok w/ excuses and the team profiting off the field but not being competitive on the field ? b4 this current and seemingly never-ending nonsense, that is the inevitable 13 th straight losing season, 3 losing seasons was the previous streak--

Ill admit, I was spoiled as a child. I was born in 1971 so for my entire childhood, I had a winning team. It wasnt until 1986 that they Os finally had a losing season in my life, but hey, they werent too far gone from WINNING the WS There were some ups and downs and then we went wire to wire in 97, we didnt win the WS, but IT SURE WAS FUN TO BE AN ORIOLES FAN, we didnt have all the constant excuses about how we cant beat the yanks. U know why ? Cuz we could beat the yanks. WE were the team playing the Yanks on espn all of the time, not the red sux. Fenway was half empty in those days. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING WHY THE ORIOLES CANT DO SOMETHING!!! THEY HAVE A GREAT STADIUM, A REGIONAL SPORTS NETWORK, THEY EVEN GET MONEY FROM THE SPENDING TEAMS THAT TRY TO WIN, AND UNHEARD OF MILLIONS OF THEIR OWN TO SPEND, the only thing they lack is the will.

It doesnt help that apologists like you give them permission to be incompetent and even go so far as to shamelessly defend it

Maybe u like a hopeless team in an empty stadium that has gone from storied to irrelevant, but its not OK with me

Ol Dandy Andy said 2010 was about MEANINGFUL IMPROVEMENT, since we only won a pathetic 64 games last yr, it shouldnt be hard to improve, but results have to come some time, but Im sure you're OK with WAITING TIL NEXT YEAR (until next year gets here then, its really the year after next) The O's have a pretty good system going. They never have to improve and the apologists will defend them. u realize that NEXT YEAR never actually gets here, right ? Below is one of many quotes promising a brighter future. From 2002:

The Orioles intend to acquire additional players in the postseason to improve the team's offense and pitching. We intend to be competitive in the new season, and we expect our young players to be especially productive with the experience they have gained from last season
- Greedy Petey Angelos, Nov 18, 2002

Andy Macphail was dubbed MACFAIL by the Twins press in 1990 not the cubs.

"Andy Macphail was dubbed MACFAIL by the Twins press in 1990 not the cubs."

And then the Twins won the World Series in 1991.

Jason C -

Are you actually pacing and stomping around the room while writing up your posts?

Everyone -

There's really nothing left to argue about now. Everything that might happen this winter has already been discussed in the comments from the past month.

The ball is in Andy's court now. Let's see what happens.

not sharp,


u seem to be defending your boy AM, make your predictions on exactly how "meaningful" the O's improvement will be or are u just one of those guys who sides with the FO because you're not very imaginative. I mean 64 wins, its not too hard to improve on that, but will it be meaningful ?

Then again Andy is the king of low expectations, a practice he developed in Chicago : http://1060west.blogspot.com/2005/08/macfails-low-expectations.html


BTW, U got a Link on the macfail reference please, . its hard to believe the MN press would be so hard on dandy andy 3 yrs after the 87 season. June will be 3 yrs here and the baltimore press falls over itself defending him

I agree, not brooks.
I support Macphail because he has held to his word so far and has improved the organizational depth. I will be very optimistic about the future of this team if they spend some money on a middle of the order bat.
Beltre is a good pickup even if he wants a longer contract. Give him three years 30 mil, he'll be lucky to get 4 years anywhere. Beltre will be good trade bait if anything and he'll benefit from Camden's short porch as opposed to the hr killing Safeco.
O's are in the financial position to create a winner so I'll start being a critic of Macphail after this offseason.

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