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December 8, 2009

O's: The value of Pie (Part Deux)

Felix Pie continues to draw surprising interest from other clubs, though it doesn't look like the Orioles are in any hurry to move him unless it's in a deal that fills one of their priority positions or enhances their overall pitching depth. There has been speculation connecting him to the Kansas City Royals, who need a versatile outfielder at a bargain salary, but the Orioles apparently don't see where the two teams could match up to complete a trade.

President of baseball operations Andy MacPhail will meet with the media in about an hour. He's been meeting with clubs and agents throughout the day. I'm hearing that one of those meetings was with SFX, the agency that represents Erik Bedard, Vladimir Guererro and Adam LaRoche.

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 5:06 PM | | Comments (25)
Categories: Just baseball


Real Plan for this winter:

- Sign John Lackey (no more than $15M per, no more than four years) and/or Matt Holliday (no more than $18M per, no more than five years) if the bidding doesn't go insane. This should be on almost every team's to do list.

- Sign Adam LaRoche. Two years, $14M

- Sign Erik Bedard. One year, $4M + incentives, club option for 2011

- Sign Jon Garland. One year, $8M, club option for 2011

- Trade lower level pitching prospects for Kevin Kouzmanoff

- Trade prospects (not sure what the Braves are looking for) for Rafael Soriano


And it's not surprising that the O's and Royals aren't matching up. Past Greinke, Billy Butler and maybe Alberto Callaspo (2B, SS), the Royals big league talent pool is more like a toilet.

And I seriously doubt the Royals would consider trading Alex Gordon or any of their top prospects for a fourth outfielder type.

Garland will not sign a one -year contract and we don't want/need him. We need a mentor-like guy for one year (Millwood is perfect) to guide the young guys.

Pete - also rumours coming out of the O's trying to trade for Kouzmanoff and R. Soriano...both of which I love and don't mind giving up a few prospects/young guys for, as long as theyr'e not named Tillman, Matusz, Bergeson or Arrieta.

Moving Pie would depend on how high the interest is for him. The Orioles often hold players past their prime time and/or hot streak and end up getting lesser value for them.
Scott had a hot half and may (I said may) had some good value but then he went cold and has limited value. Huff had that excellent season but the O's didn't trade him until he cooled off last season.
Pie has had only a couple hundred of good ABs so I certainly wouldn't avoid trading him if you got something good in return. He still has a ton of holes in his game (bad base running, dubious defense, doesn't walk) and while I'll hope for the best, it wouldn't surprise me to see him back struggling next yr.

Once again, Christopher...

How is Millwood better suited than Garland to be a mentor?

As I said in the other thread, Millwood has been around longer, has had more success throughout his career and is just overall mentally tougher.

Millwood has been an ace before...Garland has not.

I'm tired of hearing the word "mentor" as applied to possible pitching acquisitions, like it's a personality contest. We need a pitcher to go 30 starts and 180 innings, so when we figure out which of our youngsters is not ready (and there will be at least one), we can send him down, put him in the 'pen for a while, or skip a start, instead of forcing him to pitch through a potentially career-wrecking bad streak. If the guy we bring in is a ray of sunshine in the clubhouse, or if he helps the kids tie their neckties, or whatever, that's good. But doing you job is automatically mentoring, even if you say to hell with the buddy-buddy stuff.

Who gives a crap if Millwood has been an ace before? He's got three more years of big league experience than Garland. Big deal. Tougher? Seriosuly? Is there a "toughness" scale that I don't know about?

Even if Millwood would be a better mentor (which is complete and total speculation) than Garland, Garland, at this point in their respective careers, is a better pitcher than Millwood, plain and simple. Oh, and Garland is five years younger. And he won't cost any prospects.

In terms of what the O's need, Garland is a hugely better option than Millwood.

How high should 'mentor ability' be on the list of qualities for a veteran starting pitcher? The way the word gets thrown around here sometimes makes me think the Os are looking for someone with a degree in education even if their WHIP is 1.72. Find someone to get hitters out.

I also think a Garland type would be better suited as a stop gap for the Os pitching staff. He would come relatively cheap and wouldnt cost any young prospects, but the one problem we do have is getting ANY DECENT FA to come to Baltimore. So Baltimore might just have to give up a decent prospect to get a stop gap pitcher but IMO it isnt worth it.

Or go out an overpay for a Lackey (wont happen) EARLY IN THE FA MARKET so that other decent FAs will at least entertain the idea of playing in Baltimore.

"e" for eternal damning FAs

Mentoring ability is as importantant to a pitching staff as there are pitchers who need mentoring. As for the O's that's PLENTY. Guthrie for one and then ALL the young birds btought up last year... was it ten or twenty? Pitchers of today are coddled and have psyche's that are easily bruised. Not the way you might want it but that's the way it is

Waiting for the Angelos O's to make a serious move to upgrade the pitching is a fool's errand, It's like waiting for Godot, the guy who never comes.....Please, please prove me wrong, Andy Mac.

No to Garland or Millwood.
These two mercenaries are just that and nothing more.
Get Bedard.
He rounds out our rotation perfectly.
Keep Pie.
I don't trust the health of Adam Jones
Last winter he buffed up, reported to camp in exquisite shape, and still managed to make the prolonged DL twice.
I'm beginning to think this guy not only LOOKS like Eric Davis, but is destined to have the same kind of health problems.

I'd keep Pie. I'll bet anything that the day will come when Jones gets courted by the Yanks, goes free agent, and spends his career in pinstripes. He's a good player, but he just gives me that " Going Mike Mussina" vibe.

Fellow Fans: It's nice to dream that the O's owner would actually be agressive and order that money be spent on quality players, it's not going to happen. Angelos wants to make money with no risk and upping the team payroll would entail the risk of how many fans buy tickets. Look at the O's committed payroll for 2010 and that's all you need to see. Angelos will draw 1.5M from hard core fans and make money. That's all he cares about. If he actually wanted to field a competitive team, he would authorize a $90M+ payroll and get good players. But he's not going to take that risk.

Remember the MASN money would allow payroll to increase? Never happened.

Then it was "develop the arms and buy the bats". Another ruse.

We're stuck with a losing team until the Angelos' sell.


Sign Bedard;
Only trade Pie for an equivalent high-upside shortstop player/prospect;
Sign both Guererro and Adam LaRoche; for two year deals;
Trade Scott for a bone fide close; and
Use Montanez as the forth outfielder.

trade Felix Pie and Dave Hernedez for Billy Butler. (I can dream right)

forget Garland, and Millwood.

sign Bedard 2 years, 15 million, club option on the 3rd.

trade for Kevin Kouzmanoff.

re-sign Rich Hill (1yr, club option on the 2nd)

Being from Arizona and hearing about the daily Diamondbacks news via local radio, I can tell you that Garland was not well liked by his teammates here... Just one of those guys who can't get along with anyone... why do you think he has been floating around the league for a few years when pitchers are at a premium.... I just see him as a guy who would be better on a veteran team, not on a team where he would be expected to "mentor" or lead... he's not that kind of guy...

take Bedard if the money is right. don't jeopardize money now for money later when they need to lock up Matusz.

keep Pie if possible. great depth to the young outfield. i mean unless you're getting a pitcher for him, don't make the movie.

Seriously? John Lackey is a player the O's need to stray away from because he's overrated and over-priced. They need a short term 3B more than anything else, maybe an Adrian Beltre-type player. In terms of pitching, Erik Bedard would be a good fit if he can stay healthy (his history in Baltimore is much better than in Seattle). Pie isn't getting moved; If any outfielder is on his way out, it will be Luke Scott, who is horribly streaky. Pie is the epitome of a 4th outfielder, and with the health history of Jones, having him available is a great option to fall back on.

Rich is right- Garland and Millwood are virtually the same guy, but Garland is younger and doesnt cost anything as far as talent. They both give up way too many hits but are innings guys. Sign Garland, skip Millwood.

I like having Pie as a fourth outfielder. Scott can only play in left but Pie can back up all 3 spots. That gives you roster flexibility. Also Pie can come off the bench if you need a pinch runner late in a game provided someone is teaching him that base runninng is not only about speed. I think we should get Kouzamonoff and LaRoach. Two 25 HR guys are better than one 40 HR guy anyway since there is no Tex on the market this year. We could have a great lineup with prospects on the way to push these guys to be even better. Throw in Bedard and a closer and we are going to compete. Can Andy pull this off? maybe....

I think one of the reasons we get disappointed around here is people like "Not Brooks" (should be; Not Realistic) want the organization to get Lackey, Holliday, LaRoach, Bedard, Kouzamonoff, Soriano and, Garland. Come on man. You need to lay off the Kool Aid. The yankees couldn't even do half of that. Besides Garland is overrated, Lackey is overpriced and Where would we put Holliday. Remember there are 30 teams in MLB and you just signed 5 of the top 7 players and traded for 2 others. Once again the Yankees couldn't pull that off. We should have expectations but don't start talking like this or you will never be happy with what the club does. Your expectations are too high for any club let alone one with 12 straight losing seasons.

One thing that I don't understand is why teams trade players like Curtis Granderson to the yankees who just won the World Series. Does Detroit not know that to win the Worlds Series they would have to go threw the yankees? Teams do this all the time and I don't understand it. You can't make the rich richer while cutting off your own foot. If you need to cut payroll send someone to Pittsburgh or Kansas City. They have nothing but prospects to send back because they are 4A minor league teams for the other 28 ML teams. Salary Cap is needed before baseball is completley dead.

Exactly!! Mr. Angelos doesn't care about making a quality team; Just happy to make some money. As ervery year more and more fans detour as O's fan due to his lack of spending. What else is new? It's been overdue; Peter its time to sell the team... I guess i can dream , too..


Garland was not well liked by his teammates here... Just one of those guys who can't get along with anyone...

I've heard that elsewhere as well. The O's don't need that kind of garbage

The debate between whether Millwood or Garland would be better is pointless - we have Millwood now.

Plus, Millwood was clearly the better choice - after all, he is a HUGE reason the texas 4 did well

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About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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