Pete - You think Atkins will struggle here on the east coast, considering he's an LA guy and played ball in Denver? My concern is he's trying to rediscover his swing, and now he's got to adjust to a new city on the other coast. But the O's can't wait on him. Thoughts?

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Well, it's not like he's on a long-term deal. They're obviously gambling that he will bounce back. I don't know what the odds of that are, but I think there's quite a bit of upside at a fairly low level of risk.

Pete,
I note that Joe Crede has a horrific lifetime batting avg of .225. He would be a rally killer for us and I think the O's need more of an action and results oriented player. Do you really think that he has a true shot? Why can't we go after a guy like Carlos Delgado, who maybe can return to the form of 2 years ago. it's probably worth the gamble to throw him a deal of 1 year + incentives (maybe one of them is the trigger for an option year). That would be more what the doctor called for.

When the offseason began, I wanted Gonzalez and Atkins. Of course, I wanted Lackey and Adrian Gonzalez too, but I figured the other two were far more realistic. Nice job by Andy working to fill some glaring weaknesses. O's fans should be happy about these moves, some teams don't do a thing in the offseason, at least we are trying. We may not be a playoff team but we are clearly better today than yesterday.

Not happy about these signings. Gonzalez is good, and the bullpen needed help, but I think he's being overpaid at $6/yr. before incentives. And we lose a draft pick. But that's not that bad. Atkins is a complete disaster: that guy is a Coors Field product if there ever was one. I hope he has a good glove at least, we can put him in the bottom of the order and hope he'll hit a few HRs.

If we're actually going to win games in this division we need some real players, you know, above-average major leaguers. Atkins is worse than average: he's probably among the worst starting 3B in baseball. I hope I'm wrong.

Hey Pete,

Thanks for being on top of this so quickly! Just wondering if you knew anything about Delgado or if that was all speculation? I feel that could be a great opportunity for a incentive filled contract and a upside player. Additionally, every year that Delgado has been injured he has always had a huge next year. Like you mentioned, i think this could be a great low risk high reward sign. If we signed him...that would be a pretty potent offense!

3 months before any of them take the field and i am already enjoying every minute

Thanks Pete, keep up the good work!

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Pete's reply: Don't give me any credit. I just posted the link. Jeff and Dan were all over this today.

Sweet... I like both deals. Gonzales has been consistent very good over the past 6 years.

Hopefully Atkins can rebound from injury last year. If not, he doesn't kill you. I think the "Coors Effect" could be revived in the friendly confines of OPACY.

Not sure about another starter. I think the young guys take big steps this year. They may post 4.50 ERA's, but as long as they limit Meltdown Starts (don't make it out of the 4th), the O's will be competitive. Just need another strong reliever to keep up.

My guess, Scott, Wigginton stay on the roster through Spring training depending on Atkins performance, then one gets traded.

Speaking of keeping up, in the next 2-3 years the AL East will change dramatically. The Sox will not be able to keep Beckett-Lester-Lackey all at 15-20mil a year (unless they build a Fenway upper deck). The Yankees will continue to get older an retool through FA. Their weak farm system will eventually catch up with them.

PETER-

EVERYONE ARGUED WITH ME WHEN I SAID THE O"S HAVE TO GET ADRIAN GONZALES IN ORDER TO PREVENT HIM FROM GOING TO BOSTON ENDING ANY CHANCE THE O"S HAVE OF WINNING FOR ANOTHER DECADE.

WELL, ACCORDING TO ESPN and MLBTR, THEY ARE REPORTING THAT THE O'S MADE A PRETTY GOOD RUN AT ADRIAN AND ARE STILL TRYING TO WORK SOMETHING OUT!!!

OBVIOUSLY, MACPHAIL AGREED WITH ME !!!!

GO GET HIM ANDY!

I wasn't too keen on Atkins for a while, and I'm still a bit worried about his home/away splits.

Just looked at his BABIP numbers on fangraphs though, and I'm a bit more hopeful. While he posted a .247 mark in 2009, his career BABIP is .311. Even a jump back to a .300 BABIP, would bump his numbers up a bit. And it's not like OPACY is a huge pitchers park or something.

I'd like to see the numbers on the Atkins deal, but even before they're posted, it looks pretty decent.

Oh, and this is pretty freaking exciting. A quote from Gordon Edes' (ESPN writer) twitter page: "Boston won't be only team on [Adrian] Gonzalez. Baltimore made a pretty good run at him at the winter meetings, I'm told"

Wow...

You weren't the only one, Ryan.

And there's no need for the caps...

Ryan and not brooks--Since you guys are so good at getting Andy to agree with you, could you please ask him to send a dozen and a half hot, steamed jumbo blue crabs my way?

I'll promise to send some Old Bay to be named later.

I like the Mike Gonzalez signing a lot. They might have a overpaid a tad but it's Angelos's money so who cares. He fills a huge role as the reliable lefty in the bullpen we've needed so badly. His presence could actually make more difference in wins and losses than a bigger name signing of a position player.

Not crazy about the Atkin's deal. All indications are that he's washed up at 30. But when viewing it realistically it's only a one year deal and we don't know how much money yet so it's basically a shot in the dark. If by some great stroke of luck Atkins can regain his form of 05-08 than you've struck gold, but if not, it doesn't really handicap you that much moving on. Clearly McPhail wanted a guy who could be had for a one year, with Bell waiting in the wings. If Atkins stinks as bad as last year then maybe we get to see Bell a little earlier than expected like some of the young pitchers last year.

As someone who wouldn't have been overly dissapointed with no more trades or signings this offseason, I have no real reason to complain about today's moves. All in all I think it's a fairly low risk - high reward situation.

And best of all we won't have to watch the horizontally enhanced Ty Wigginton popping up the first pitch of each at bat, at least not on a daily basis.

I think a) your wife must be a really patient person, w you sneaking off to stay involved w the hotstove b) Atkins's hitting went on a crash diet last yr in the thin air of Colorado, uncharacteristically, and he serves a legit 1yr flyer/stopgap that could rediscover his magic c) Mike Gonzalez brings back the right left attack in the 8th and 9th, which limits opposing managers bench options; smart, just plain smart and d) why not go ahead and make us a winner by signing Bedard to a 2 yr, incentive laden deal AND package Aubrey, Synder, Hernandez, and Berken for Adrian Gonzalez!! Then call it YATZEE!

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Pete's reply: I agree with almost everything you said, but don't think that package would be enough to get Gonzalez. Also, not to be nit-picky, but isn't there an H in Yahtzee?

not brooks:

You didn't mention Gonzalez in your post. A quick scan of his numbers and they look pretty good from here.

Mike Gonzalez is as solid as they come. I think he is going to be the closer and the fact that he hasn't pitched in the AL before will make him more dangerous because of his pitching style. I like the deal because it puts JJ back to setup man which is what he excels at. You add in Hendrickson (when the deal gets done), Koji and Hernandez, the BP is starting to look good on paper at least plus there are some good BP guys still out there.

I am with Not Brooks on Atkins with his stats at Coors and away, but the fact it's a 1 year deal for a guy with only when bad year to his name and not some 35-37 year old, makes me like the deal. Hopefully he falls in love with OPACY and puts up Coors like #s.

There will be a lot of folks that will say big deal when comparing the names of the players that the Sox, Phillies and M's got, but to get a solid SP for Chris Ray, an excellent left handed reliever to take over the close role and a guy who can play 3B or 1B plus has an upside, is a good way to start off the winter.

e) Why not trade Arieta straight up for Adrian Gonzalez? San Diego would jump to bring the hometown kid home and the O's would be able to pencil in the name Gonzalez to the All-Star Ballot for years to come. Yes Arieta was our number 1 pick and you generally shouldn't trade a potential Ace arm for a position player because position players are easier to come by but I think we saw enough in Matusz and Tillman and Bergy to know we have 3 quality guys who will be mainstains at the top of the rotation.

Not happy about these signings. Gonzalez is good, and the bullpen needed help, but I think he's being overpaid at $6/yr. before incentives. And we lose a draft pick. But that's not that bad. Atkins is a complete disaster: that guy is a Coors Field product if there ever was one. I hope he has a good glove at least, we can put him in the bottom of the order and hope he'll hit a few HRs.

If we're actually going to win games in this division we need some real players, you know, above-average major leaguers. Atkins is worse than average: he's probably among the worst starting 3B in baseball. I hope I'm wrong.

Posted by: Orsulakfan | December 16, 2009 11:36 PM

______________________

You're wrong.

Amazes me how people have been screaming for the team to improve and for Angelos to spend money. With these two moves, along with the Millwood acquisition, and I think more to come; now some on here are whining about Atkins being lousy (remember, Bell is in the wings and a 3b was being sought for no more than 1 to 2 years) and that the O's paid too much for Gonzalez. Freakin' amazing. Make up your mind whiners. First all you read is "same old Andy MacPhail making promises and doing nothing....same old Peter Angelos not wanting to part with money; now with these three moves the team has definitely improved and Angelos has spent money, but noooooo...the whine is still there. How typical.

Birdland Todd:

Gonzalez's numbers are comparable to what BJ was doing for us before he went to the Jays, and that's saying something. What do you mean by saying, "will make him more dangerous because of his pitching style."

Sizemo stop being ridiculous. It's ludicrous to think that A. Gonzalez could be had for Jake Arietta straight up. Boston is offering their top 3 prospects and the only reason the Padres are involving the Orioles is to squeeze more out of Epstein, because they know that McPhail won't part with the guys they really covet.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Arietta was our 5th round selection the year he was drafted, not #1.

Peter,

What do you make of Ken Rosenthal's article that the Orioles have joined the Matt Holliday bidding, but may only be doing so as a token effort to the fans?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/121609-rosenthal-morosi-on-orioles-holliday

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: It's an interesting take, and Ken certainly has good sources, but I would think if the Orioles were willing to spend that much money, it would make more sense to concentrate on trading for Adrian Gonzalez and signing him long-term.

Even more exciting...
Diamondbacks Sign Rodrigo Lopez
By Mark Polishuk [December 16 at 6:11pm CST]
Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic reports (via Twitter) that the Diamondbacks have signed right-hander Rodrigo Lopez to a minor-league deal that includes an invitation to spring training. Lopez pitched in seven games (five of them starts) for Philadelphia last season, posting a 5.70 ERA. He underwent Tommy John surgery in 2007 that caused him to miss nearly all of 2008, save for three late-season minor league starts.

sizemo, no offense, but you're today's version of the fan way back in 1975 who called the Ted Patterson show on WBAL and said, that because Oakland needed a SS and they had a surplus of OFs, we should trade them Timmy Nordbrook for Reggie Jackson. We eventually got Reggie, but it took a hell of a lot more than Tim Nordbrook.

Do you really think SD will trade a young, inexpensive power hitter straight up for an unproven minor league pitcher, even one with Arrieta's upside? Putting aside the fact that Jake was the Orioles number five pick that year, Weiters was number one, the Padres would want much more.

And do you think an astute baseball guy like their new GM, Jed Hoyer, who grew up under Theo Epstein in Boston would take two ineffective starters, an unheralded minor league 1B, who many on this blog feel will never pan out and another 1B who hasn't yet done anything?

It is quite possible Berkins, Hernandez, Aubrey(who I really like) and Snyder will all become very good major league baseball players, but the Padres will want something a little more definite, and that means, Tillman or Matusz and maybe even Bell or Waring.

C' mon, dude, think a little. I'd like Gonzo here as much as the next guy, but it's gonna take a ton to get him here.

Regarding Atkins, remember, Matt Holliday dealt with Coors issues and seemed to do OK when he got out. Atkins was right there with Holliday when talking about the good young prospects with the Rox, and yes, he had a bad year last year, it happens. At one year, this is a low risk, huge upside signing for the Orioles. Let's hope a change of scenery works for Atkins.

Bob C, If you watch Gonzalez pitch, he has a weird delivery and the fact he's left handed, makes it hard to pick up. I've heard some NL players say that he's tough even when you've seen him a dozen times so the fact he will be facing guys that haven't seen him, makes him even more dangerous.

I like Ken Rosenthal, but I don't buy that the O's are even looking at Matt Holliday. I could be wrong, but I think his handlers are putting out these rumors because it looks like just the Cards are seriously in the hunt for his services.

Andy MacPhail knows what he is doing. Snapping up Mike Gonzalez, an underrated left-handed relief pitcher, was smart. I expect Gonzalez to be the Bird closer.

Garrett Atkins, only 30, has the drive to bounce back from his off year in 2009. With the promising Josh Bell waiting in the Oriole wings, this is a wise acquisition. Atkins is an average defensive third baseman. He is pretty comfortable playing first. He gives the Orioles flexibility. No need to rush Bell.

What fans want to know is was there a physical problem with Atkins last season that affected his production? Ian Stewart took over his job at third for the Rockies. Atkins' drop off was significant, his at bats fell to 399.

We'll see. But I think bringing him to Baltimore is worth a shot. Colorado was notorious for the light air and the long balls in the first few years of the franchise. But then MLB allowed the Rockies to place the home game balls in a humidified room to counteract the home run craziness.

It may be that Atkins will like swinging the stick at a non-dampened hardballs at Camden Yards.

I like both signings. So what if Atkins is a bust like last year. He has the potential to bounce back big time at no cost to us (except some $$ out of Angelos' wallet). I've watched Gonzalez pitch and for those of you who haven't seen him, wait til you see his delivery. It is one of the weirdest ones out there. It looks like he can't make up his mind whether to throw the ball or not, as he rocks back and forth throughout his windup. It can drive you crazy watching him. Hopefully he will work out for him (us).

I posted this elsewhere, but I'll say it again...

I was not a big supporter of getting Atkins, but looking at some of his numbers, I noticed that his line drive percentage went down nearly 6% this past year. He wasn't getting the solid contact that he was before. On one of the other boards (mlbtraderumors I think), I seem to remember a Colorado fan saying he was starting to squint a lot. There's a chance that he has developed mild astigmatism, which a) can go unnoticed if not checked for and b) shouldn't be too hard to fix if indeed that is the case (should it?). A quick google search of Garrett Atkins and astigmatism brought up nothing significant, but it would be hard to believe (would it?) that this wouldn't be something Colorado would have looked into... but you never know.

Wow all I can say istonight. Mike Gonzalez and Atkins in one night. That is a great start for our Birds. Now the rumors of Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez. Say if the Orioles did trade J.Arrieta,Z.Britton and B.Snyder to San Deigo for A.Gonzalez and Signed M.Holliday this would be bigger than life. The odd's are slim but still. Holliday you add 25-30 Home Runs and 90-100 RBI'S a yr. Gonzo you add 35+ Home Runs and 90+ RBI'S. With the team growing leaps and bounds we could be back to 1997 Levels with Home Runs and Runs Scored if not better. So lets pray that Andy and Daddy Pete can get both Deal's done cause this would really put some azz's in the seats. Now you really got look at SP. Yes you have a great core of young guy's. Matusz,Tillman,Bergeson,Berken,Hernandez,Erbe ect I say no to Sheets dont get me wrong I like MTO'S at 3am oh wait wrong Sheets. LOL.. Ben don't get me wrong when he's on he's on. But if I was Andy or Pete I would go after a lefty like Bedard. Cause more match up problems. Not to manny teams have 2 lefty's as starters. Matusz and Bedard would work out well IMO.. All said and done we know it's a long shot but well worth it. Im not going to get my hope's up but dang it I can Dream and if I'm going to dream it's going to be a big old dream.....

Wow all I can say istonight. Mike Gonzalez and Atkins in one night. That is a great start for our Birds. Now the rumors of Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez. Say if the Orioles did trade J.Arrieta,Z.Britton and B.Snyder to San Deigo for A.Gonzalez and Signed M.Holliday this would be bigger than life. The odd's are slim but still. Holliday you add 25-30 Home Runs and 90-100 RBI'S a yr. Gonzo you add 35+ Home Runs and 90+ RBI'S. With the team growing leaps and bounds we could be back to 1997 Levels with Home Runs and Runs Scored if not better. So lets pray that Andy and Daddy Pete can get both Deal's done cause this would really put some azz's in the seats. Now you really got look at SP. Yes you have a great core of young guy's. Matusz,Tillman,Bergeson,Berken,Hernandez,Erbe ect I say no to Sheets dont get me wrong I like MTO'S at 3am oh wait wrong Sheets. LOL.. Ben don't get me wrong when he's on he's on. But if I was Andy or Pete I would go after a lefty like Bedard. Cause more match up problems. Not to manny teams have 2 lefty's as starters. Matusz and Bedard would work out well IMO.. All said and done we know it's a long shot but well worth it. Im not going to get my hope's up but dang it I can Dream and if I'm going to dream it's going to be a big old dream.....

Wow all I can say istonight. Mike Gonzalez and Atkins in one night. That is a great start for our Birds. Now the rumors of Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez. Say if the Orioles did trade J.Arrieta,Z.Britton and B.Snyder to San Deigo for A.Gonzalez and Signed M.Holliday this would be bigger than life. The odd's are slim but still. Holliday you add 25-30 Home Runs and 90-100 RBI'S a yr. Gonzo you add 35+ Home Runs and 90+ RBI'S. With the team growing leaps and bounds we could be back to 1997 Levels with Home Runs and Runs Scored if not better. So lets pray that Andy and Daddy Pete can get both Deal's done cause this would really put some azz's in the seats. Now you really got look at SP. Yes you have a great core of young guy's. Matusz,Tillman,Bergeson,Berken,Hernandez,Erbe ect I say no to Sheets dont get me wrong I like MTO'S at 3am oh wait wrong Sheets. LOL.. Ben don't get me wrong when he's on he's on. But if I was Andy or Pete I would go after a lefty like Bedard. Cause more match up problems. Not to manny teams have 2 lefty's as starters. Matusz and Bedard would work out well IMO.. All said and done we know it's a long shot but well worth it. Im not going to get my hope's up but dang it I can Dream and if I'm going to dream it's going to be a big old dream.....

Wow all I can say istonight. Mike Gonzalez and Atkins in one night. That is a great start for our Birds. Now the rumors of Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez. Say if the Orioles did trade J.Arrieta,Z.Britton and B.Snyder to San Deigo for A.Gonzalez and Signed M.Holliday this would be bigger than life. The odd's are slim but still. Holliday you add 25-30 Home Runs and 90-100 RBI'S a yr. Gonzo you add 35+ Home Runs and 90+ RBI'S. With the team growing leaps and bounds we could be back to 1997 Levels with Home Runs and Runs Scored if not better. So lets pray that Andy and Daddy Pete can get both Deal's done cause this would really put some azz's in the seats. Now you really got look at SP. Yes you have a great core of young guy's. Matusz,Tillman,Bergeson,Berken,Hernandez,Erbe ect I say no to Sheets dont get me wrong I like MTO'S at 3am oh wait wrong Sheets. LOL.. Ben don't get me wrong when he's on he's on. But if I was Andy or Pete I would go after a lefty like Bedard. Cause more match up problems. Not to manny teams have 2 lefty's as starters. Matusz and Bedard would work out well IMO.. All said and done we know it's a long shot but well worth it. Im not going to get my hope's up but dang it I can Dream and if I'm going to dream it's going to be a big old dream.....

Wow all I can say istonight. Mike Gonzalez and Atkins in one night. That is a great start for our Birds. Now the rumors of Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez. Say if the Orioles did trade J.Arrieta,Z.Britton and B.Snyder to San Deigo for A.Gonzalez and Signed M.Holliday this would be bigger than life. The odd's are slim but still. Holliday you add 25-30 Home Runs and 90-100 RBI'S a yr. Gonzo you add 35+ Home Runs and 90+ RBI'S. With the team growing leaps and bounds we could be back to 1997 Levels with Home Runs and Runs Scored if not better. So lets pray that Andy and Daddy Pete can get both Deal's done cause this would really put some azz's in the seats. Now you really got look at SP. Yes you have a great core of young guy's. Matusz,Tillman,Bergeson,Berken,Hernandez,Erbe ect I say no to Sheets dont get me wrong I like MTO'S at 3am oh wait wrong Sheets. LOL.. Ben don't get me wrong when he's on he's on. But if I was Andy or Pete I would go after a lefty like Bedard. Cause more match up problems. Not to manny teams have 2 lefty's as starters. Matusz and Bedard would work out well IMO.. All said and done we know it's a long shot but well worth it. Im not going to get my hope's up but dang it I can Dream and if I'm going to dream it's going to be a big old dream.....

Wow all I can say istonight. Mike Gonzalez and Atkins in one night. That is a great start for our Birds. Now the rumors of Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez. Say if the Orioles did trade J.Arrieta,Z.Britton and B.Snyder to San Deigo for A.Gonzalez and Signed M.Holliday this would be bigger than life. The odd's are slim but still. Holliday you add 25-30 Home Runs and 90-100 RBI'S a yr. Gonzo you add 35+ Home Runs and 90+ RBI'S. With the team growing leaps and bounds we could be back to 1997 Levels with Home Runs and Runs Scored if not better. So lets pray that Andy and Daddy Pete can get both Deal's done cause this would really put some azz's in the seats. Now you really got look at SP. Yes you have a great core of young guy's. Matusz,Tillman,Bergeson,Berken,Hernandez,Erbe ect I say no to Sheets dont get me wrong I like MTO'S at 3am oh wait wrong Sheets. LOL.. Ben don't get me wrong when he's on he's on. But if I was Andy or Pete I would go after a lefty like Bedard. Cause more match up problems. Not to manny teams have 2 lefty's as starters. Matusz and Bedard would work out well IMO.. All said and done we know it's a long shot but well worth it. Im not going to get my hope's up but dang it I can Dream and if I'm going to dream it's going to be a big old dream.....

Wow. How did my post send 4000 time's im sorry every one I didnt mean for that to Happen.

Please tell me that atkins is going to play 1st and a good fielder will be signed for 3rd (crede). It is not good for developing a young staff's confidence when a -15 uzr 3rd baseman waves grounders into left field. Let atkins play there when Millwood pitches.

Pete,

While I do think the likelihood of a move like is being reported by Rosenthal for Holliday is quite slim, might it make sense on a few levels?

With the addition of Holliday, the outfield depth of the Orioles would grow tremendously – to a point where some big pieces could be moved. Holliday in left would fill a big need for a right-handed power bat, but it could also set the O’s up for another big trade. The outfield depth could provide the pieces needed for a trade with the Braves, for a pitcher, or maybe even with the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez, perhaps both. Holliday in the rotation makes a couple of people a bit more expendable.

Luke Scott, who probably would not have much of a return, could be moved. Perhaps even bigger though are names such as Felix Pie and Nolan Reimold. Either player (most likely Reimold) packaged with another prospect or two would be appealing to a number of clubs I would assume, including possibly the Padres. I’ve seen a few posts around the web about sending someone like Adam Jones to the Pads to get Gonzo, but I would be totally against that.

Signing Holliday to be able to trade some pieces for someone like Gonzalez would be brilliant because for the next two years you would have 2 of the premier talents in all of baseball in the lineup, and with Gonzalez’s tiny contract, you could have them both and still afford them. While I love Reimold, and would not mind him in LF for the foreseeable future, I think acquiring proven All-Star vets such as Holliday and Gonzalez, would make him a small price to pay. A lineup like that would be on par with the bozos up north.

A lineup of:

Roberts
Markakis
Jones
Gonzalez
Holliday
Wieters
Atkins
Scott? Wiggington?
Izturis

Matches up pretty well in my book.

Of course, this is ridiculous to even speculate or suggest, but what if……

EVERYONE ARGUED WITH ME WHEN I SAID THE O"S HAVE TO GET ADRIAN GONZALES IN ORDER TO PREVENT HIM FROM GOING TO BOSTON ENDING ANY CHANCE THE O"S HAVE OF WINNING FOR ANOTHER DECADE.

WELL, ACCORDING TO ESPN and MLBTR, THEY ARE REPORTING THAT THE O'S MADE A PRETTY GOOD RUN AT ADRIAN AND ARE STILL TRYING TO WORK SOMETHING OUT!!!

OBVIOUSLY, MACPHAIL AGREED WITH ME !!!!

GO GET HIM ANDY!

checked your cited sources and cant find a single reference to the Orioles possible motivation being to play defense against the Sawx getting Agon. If the Orioles are after Gonzalez, it is because of how good he is and how well he fits their needs and how far he advances their building a winner. The idea that we would give up a package of prime valuable players just to keep him away from Boston who we are years away from challenging is just typical silliness from fan-dumb.

On a note of personal curiosity . . . does anyone ever really fall for substituting caps for an honest, accurate recitation of the facts?

Pete,

While I do think the likelihood of a move like is being reported by Rosenthal for Holliday is quite slim, might it make sense on a few levels?

With the addition of Holliday, the outfield depth of the Orioles would grow tremendously – to a point where some big pieces could be moved. Holliday in left would fill a big need for a right-handed power bat, but it could also set the O’s up for another big trade. The outfield depth could provide the pieces needed for a trade with the Braves, for a pitcher, or maybe even with the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez, perhaps both. Holliday in the rotation makes a couple of people a bit more expendable.

Luke Scott, who probably would not have much of a return, could be moved. Perhaps even bigger though are names such as Felix Pie and Nolan Reimold. Either player (most likely Reimold) packaged with another prospect or two would be appealing to a number of clubs I would assume, including possibly the Padres. I’ve seen a few posts around the web about sending someone like Adam Jones to the Pads to get Gonzo, but I would be totally against that.

Signing Holliday to be able to trade some pieces for someone like Gonzalez would be brilliant because for the next two years you would have 2 of the premier talents in all of baseball in the lineup, and with Gonzalez’s tiny contract, you could have them both and still afford them. While I love Reimold, and would not mind him in LF for the foreseeable future, I think acquiring proven All-Star vets such as Holliday and Gonzalez, would make him a small price to pay. A lineup like that would be on par with the bozos up north.

A lineup of:

Roberts
Markakis
Jones
Gonzalez
Holliday
Wieters
Atkins
Scott? Wiggington?
Izturis

Matches up pretty well in my book.

Of course, this is ridiculous to even speculate or suggest, but what if……

I don't think that the Orioles will go from worst to first in the AL East in one year. It will certainly take incremental improvement, primarily coming from the growth and development of home grown players, then supplemented by a couple of key missing parts.

The home grown players are coming, but they don't have enough critical mass yet. So it is not so imperative to get the ultimate supplemental pieces.

Atkins and Gonzalez are OK pieces that keep the team from being a disaster while the home grown players develop.

If you can add a Bay or a Holliday, you do it, as you need to aquire the best talent you can without giving up player assets. This then increases the assets you have for a trade. The only way I see the Orioles able to get Adrian Gonzalez this year is if also sign a high profile outfielder which would allow them to trade either Reimold or Jones as part of the package.

Perhaps, also, they can use the 2nd round money not spent next year on Chapman. I think signing him would more than offset not having a 2nd round pick, wouldn't you??

Hey, count me in as supporting both of these moves. FIrst, our bullpen was in shambles last year so adding a proven reliever(and left-handed to boot!) will undoubtably help there. As far as the $$$ who cares? Besides, we've paid the same amount for others-see Baez, Gibbons,etc..
Atkins may not be a lock to hit 25 Hrs but anything is an upgrade over the brutal numbers put up by Mora last year.
As we end '09 how can we not be somewhat positive for next year? McPhail is filling in the holes and our core still remains.

Pete,
Do you know if the O's are still looking at Eric Bedard? I think this should be a no-brainer to take a risk on a former ace with nothing but a huge upside.

Pete,
Two good deals made for 2010. In addition, the deals give McPhail more options in this off-season. Wow!!!

I like these moves. Of course living In Connecticut, I get bombed on both sides from either BoSox fans or Yankee ones. I would avoid Delgado at all costs because he can be a cancer in the clubhouse. One of the reasons for Mets downfall was the division in the clubhouse. Delgado was a big part of that. We don't need that attitude around the young guys. We need more of hustle and win all out to develop.

The good news about signing Atkins is it means we won't be signing Beltre who is one of the most over rated players in the game today.

Here's what I don't get. We traded away a cheap closer and replaced him with a $6 million man.I could live with that if we hadn't stupidly let Steve Johnson walk away for nothing. Don't try to tell me Johnson is coming back. the Giants are in the same division as the Dodgers and they well scouted Johnson in the minors. They knew who they were getting. He's a workhose and strike thrower. Josh Bell will never hit LH pitching and who knows what will happen once he gets fed a steady diet of curveballs.McPhail always tries to be clever by half and winds up shooting himself in the foot.

Chances are we'll trade Millwod at the deadline so where did getting him get us? 4 months of veteran leadership? The guy keeps to himself,he's not going to be a 2nd pitching coach.The best thing about this trade was getting rid of Ray.

Get a real closer like Capps and let Gonzo be a late inning specialist even if he's grossly overpaid.

FYI-

A sports columnist for the San Diego Times, I think it is, is saying that the Orioles offered,

Tillman, Hernandez, Snyder, and Pie, but that the Padres want Reimold instead of Pie.

If they are going to go hard after Holliday, than I guess you can trade Reimold. But, if it were me, I would try to add another mid-level arm, and keep Reimold.

Anyone think that deal is better than Ellsbury, Buckholdz, Bowden, and Anderson?

While everyone has their holiday wishes, dreaming of sugar plum fairies, here is another wild thought. Offer J. Damon a two year deal worth 25 million with incentives to take it to 30mil. Tell him to let his hair grow long and bring back the beard. Maybe it is time for the second coming of Jesus to bring hope to the O's. Damon has the experience of both Sox and Yanks so he can teach the young guys how to compete against them. Remember he was vital to Sox in overcoming the Babe hex, so maybe he can help bring back the Oriole way. Send him to spring training early so he can play a few rounds with Weaver, then we should be all set. While you are at it, pass another round of eggnog.....at least we can all have some good cheer. Of course with these thoughts, you know I already had my quota of eggnog for the day......keep on dreaming and concocting strange scenarios........

Peter-

I have seen some crazy things on here, and I think we might need a re-education course or something.

One guy suggested that we trade Arrieta straight up for Gonzales.

Another had a crazy package of like Berken, Hernandez, and Aubrey.

No way we land A-Gone, without losing Tillman or Arrieta, or both.

Also, people are bashing the Mike Gonzales signing, and it blows my mind.
There are 2 reasons given. 1 is money. 2 is the 2nd rd pick.

What is wrong with people?
The O's payroll is $42 million before Millwood and arbitration raises. They have such a surplus of money that it isn't even funny. How many people bash them for NOT spending money? The O's could carry $100 Million + if they wanted to and be fine. The addition of a solid arm into a young bullpen is priceless.
Plus, a lefty closer in the AL East is huge. 6 Million for a closer is a bargain. Rivera gets 15, K-Rod 13. Nathan 14.

2nd- is the draft pick. whoopty do. Picks are a crap shoot. We have 2 years now of more wins for a 2nd rd pick.
But, you can't even complain about the pick until MGon is gone. Because, they may eventually trade him for prospects. OR, when he leaves in 2 years as a free agent, we will then get that teams picks.
People just don't use their heads.

Peter-

I have seen some crazy things on here, and I think we might need a re-education course or something.

One guy suggested that we trade Arrieta straight up for Gonzales.

Another had a crazy package of like Berken, Hernandez, and Aubrey.

No way we land A-Gone, without losing Tillman or Arrieta, or both.

Also, people are bashing the Mike Gonzales signing, and it blows my mind.
There are 2 reasons given. 1 is money. 2 is the 2nd rd pick.

What is wrong with people?
The O's payroll is $42 million before Millwood and arbitration raises. They have such a surplus of money that it isn't even funny. How many people bash them for NOT spending money? The O's could carry $100 Million + if they wanted to and be fine. The addition of a solid arm into a young bullpen is priceless.
Plus, a lefty closer in the AL East is huge. 6 Million for a closer is a bargain. Rivera gets 15, K-Rod 13. Nathan 14.

2nd- is the draft pick. whoopty do. Picks are a crap shoot. We have 2 years now of more wins for a 2nd rd pick.
But, you can't even complain about the pick until MGon is gone. Because, they may eventually trade him for prospects. OR, when he leaves in 2 years as a free agent, we will then get that teams picks.
People just don't use their heads.

Peter-

I have seen some crazy things on here, and I think we might need a re-education course or something.

One guy suggested that we trade Arrieta straight up for Gonzales.

Another had a crazy package of like Berken, Hernandez, and Aubrey.

No way we land A-Gone, without losing Tillman or Arrieta, or both.

Also, people are bashing the Mike Gonzales signing, and it blows my mind.
There are 2 reasons given. 1 is money. 2 is the 2nd rd pick.

What is wrong with people?
The O's payroll is $42 million before Millwood and arbitration raises. They have such a surplus of money that it isn't even funny. How many people bash them for NOT spending money? The O's could carry $100 Million + if they wanted to and be fine. The addition of a solid arm into a young bullpen is priceless.
Plus, a lefty closer in the AL East is huge. 6 Million for a closer is a bargain. Rivera gets 15, K-Rod 13. Nathan 14.

2nd- is the draft pick. whoopty do. Picks are a crap shoot. We have 2 years now of more wins for a 2nd rd pick.
But, you can't even complain about the pick until MGon is gone. Because, they may eventually trade him for prospects. OR, when he leaves in 2 years as a free agent, we will then get that teams picks.
People just don't use their heads.

Atkins is a very good move. The guy's only a couple of years removed from the time when he was a top young slugger. Maybe Crowley can work the same magic with him that he worked with Felix Pie.

If things don't work out, Bell w/b knocking on the door this time next year anyway, and Atkins can go.

My concern about Atkins is that in 2009, according to the talking heads out here in Denver, he changed his approach at the plate to increase his power numbers to increase his appeal nearing his free agent years. Prior to that he was a line drive hitter with a sweet swing that put the ball into the outfield gaps. Which Atkins are the Orioles getting? Has he learned from last year or will he continue to try to put up power numbers to get the big contract in 2011?
One minor positive for Atkins is that he is a good friend of Matt Holliday but the main factors for Holliday will be $16m/year for eight years and a blanket no trade clause. Also take he and his wife on a tour of the best schools in the area so he'll be happy about the situation he'll be putting his children into.

Atkins has some big upside. Of course last year is a concern, but I think too much is made of the Coors field factor. First of all since they started keeping the balls in the humidor the stadium has not produced the same numbers it did in its early days and people need to keep in mind that in the AL (especially the AL east) 3 out 4 ball parks are hitter friendly.

Baby steps. Baez salary replaced by Gonzales is a small upgrade and Akins in lieu of Mora or Wiggy is also a small upgrade. Both are moves in a forward direction and it would be nice if people were realistic and grateful for improvement instead of lamenting the O's have not signed Holliday, Lackey, etc. This team will win when it's homegrown talent matures and is augmented, not before. In the meantime, I for one am thankful for efforts made to field a more competitive team.

Pete I saw the O's also made an "offer" to Matt Holliday. Was it serious or just a show? What are the odds we make Holliday a serious offer and then try to build an Adrian Gonzalez package around Felix Pie and a couple of our stud young pitchers?

If we made both those moves we'd rival the Yankees and Sox lineups and woudln't really really hurt our rebuilding, since both Holliday and Gonzalez would be coming here long term (assuming an extension was part of the A-Gon trade).

So we can part w/20M and a draft pick for Gonzales and we can't sign Jon Garland??? MacPhail let me down on this one. Smells like another Danny Baez to me.

At first, when I read the headline, I just saw the name 'Gonzalez' (thinking it was Adrian) and flipped. I did a double take and the first name was 'Mike' and was my flip fizzled.

No need to shoot off fireworks here, but every bit helps I guess. There are still more quality names in the market, I don't see why Andy went after Garret Adkins and not a Hank Blalock, Carlos Delgado, or Jon Garland?

I hope Andy still has some moves, but this is still not enough.

Atkins is a slightly better Wiggy and we signed the wrong Gonzalez... This team sucks! Peter Angelos is probably laughing his butt off at this fake hype and that idiots will spend money to see more failure this season. SELL THE TEAM PETER YOU STINK!!!!!!!!!

Wow I’m having déjà vu back to last season when we signed a bunch of bums and sucked!

The Oriole way now is to sign broken down aging players in the twilight of their career to contracts well over what they are worth. Stop doing this!!! WTF!

This fake buzz about the Orioles going after Holliday and A-Gon is a sham.

Holliday or A-Gon? LOL this team is more likely to sign andruw jones or some other cheapie rethread player that the Orioles love so much.

Pete,

Now that the O's have signed Atkins and Gonzalez, I think they should take a chance on bringing back Eric Bedard.
I also believe that Jim Thome would be a good fit as a DH and part time 1B until Brandon Snyder is ready to move up.
Thome may be old but he can still hit for power and he draws a lot of walks.
Incentive laden contracts for both Bedard and Thome could bring them to Baltimore. I know the fans would love to see both of them play for the O's.

Ryan -- Let it go. You come across as a 12 year old with no self confidence. The fact that the O's looked into AG simply shows the FO was doing its job. They weren't trying to block the Red Sox (that's just stupid) and it appears they decided not to do the trade because they recognized it would gut the team of to much young talent.

You are now officially dubbed chicken little. I promise the sky will not fall if AG goes to Boston.

btw-- I agree with all the other posters regarding the use of all caps...who actually thinks that is effective?

Jon Garland? Are you out of your mind? Why on earth would we want a guy like Garland? There's a reason he's bounced around so much.

We got a legit anchor for the bullpen, one that kills lefties and will solidify the back end. This guy is definitely not another Baez.

Your last line sums up my reaction to this deal. It's not exactly earth shaking, but it's something. I feel pretty good about the O's pitching heading into spring. It won't be as good as the Yankees or Sox yet, but it should be noticeably improved over last year.
I'm still worried about the offense though. Atkins is worth taking a chance on, but Andy still needs to find a genuine power hitter for the middle of the order. Reimold and Weiters should both have better numbers next year, but a proven threat is still needed.

Mediocre teams make mediocre moves. None of these moves addresses long term and continuity at these positions. They're just another couple of bones thrown at O's fans to make them feel like there is a a commitment.

So we can part w/20M and a draft pick for Gonzales and we can't sign Jon Garland??? MacPhail let me down on this one. Smells like another Danny Baez to me.

Posted by: Josh | December 17, 2009 8:51 AM
*****
Apparently Jon Garland is a butthole (hence 4 teams in 4 years). He's had one very good season in is career. Baez was coming off a year with a 4.50 ERA, alot different than Gonzales whose ERA has been sub 3.00 5/6 years.

Draft pick shmaft picks. Top reliever now? or develop a 2nd round pick for 2-4 years?

Mediocre teams make mediocre moves. None of these moves addresses long term and continuity at these positions. They're just another couple of bones thrown at O's fans to make them feel like there is a a commitment.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 17, 2009 9:36 AM
***********

What pratel do you suggest the O's do? The free agent pool is weak this year. Lackey and Holliday are the only premier players on the market and they aren't all that premier. This is the equivalent of complaining about the Ravens now signing a FA WR last season when there wasn't one available.

"The free agent pool is weak this year. Lackey and Holliday are the only premier players on the market and they aren't all that premier"

Sounds like sour grapes to me. How can you say they aren't all that premier? They would not commend the salaries they do if they weren't. The Phillies and the Redsox don't just pay them to pay them. They want to win the World Series and they believe these guys are important pieces to achieve that goal. Unlike the O's the aforementioned teams play to win, and not just to make money.

Call me a pie-in-the-sky optimist, but I don't think the O's should abandon the focus on the development of young pitching to get Adrian Gonzalez. Yes Matusz looks like the real thing and Bergesen was outstanding before the line drive last year. But the reality is we just don't know which of these young pitchers will avoid the injury bug and be the foundation of the starting rotation for the next five years. I would hate to give up Arrieta or Tillman or Britton (or a combination of them) and then see Matusz get hurt or Bergesen take a step backwards. The thing that will make the O's good in the long run is a starting rotation made up of 3 or 4 of the young pitchers that either made their major league debut last year or are on the cusp of breaking through this year. O's history teaches us there are two words for the give up prospects to get the power-hitting 1st baseman crew - Glenn Davis

My ideal scenario is that Bell hits and fields exceptionally well in Spring Training and beats out Atkins for the 3B spot on opening day.

Gonzalez is a proven back-end lefty who should match up well against the big left-handed bats in the AL East.

Atkins is a place warmer and brings neither a strong glove nor a clean-up bat. Taking a flier on Troy Glaus who could handle the pressure of the 4-spot to play 3rd or 1st would have gotten me far more excited. The only positive is that he is on a 1-year deal.

hopefully AM can pull a reverse Bedard trade to get AGonzo... send them a heap of junk for the guy.

Then when he does, I hope all the haters get bent out of shape over how the O's still suck and that they should have got Tex last year, Lackey Bedard, and Sheets this year...

You all need a Robin Williams/Matt Damon hug...

Its not your fault...

This is great news, as I had asked Santa for a third baseman and some decent pitching, and here it is, and it's not even Dec. 25th yet! I never even knew that Andy MacPhail had a long white beard, though the reindeer I saw in his parking spot at Camden Yards should have been a giveaway...but seriously folks...
Carlos Delgado makes me nervous, I'm having flashbacks to when we signed Joe Carter and look how well that turned out. Something about aging sluggers that generally adds up to alot of money spent for nothing. No, if you're going to get somebody, let's get somebody whose needle isn't pushing "E." Here's a thought, I've read alot lately about the Orioles interest in Japanese pitchers, what about Japanese hitters? Anybody out there worth taking a look at?

Pete, anything to report on the Erik Bedard front? Wasn't he supposed to be getting a physical to prove to the world he was 100%? As I've noted several times on this blog, I would love to have this guy back if he's healthy, one of the most dominating pitchers I've seen toss for the O's in my 30 years as a fan.

Orioles Winter Checklist:

1. Sign experienced starting pitcher who can mentor the young guys and throw 200 innings. Kevin Millwood. Check

2. Sign a proven bullpen arm to put Jim Johnson back in the 8th inning role. Mike Gonzalez. Check

3. Sign a cheap corner infielder with upside who can hold down first or third base until Josh Bell is ready. Garrett Atkins. Check

4. Use Atkins and $17-18M per for six years to bring in Matt Holliday.

5. With Holliday signed, send a packaged headlined by Nolan Reimold and Jake Arrieta to San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez.

6. Sign Erik Bedard to a one year deal with a club option.

7. Use money that would have been spent on 2010 draft picks to sign Aroldis Chapman.

8. Enjoy this lineup:

1. Brian Roberts
2. Adam Jones
3. Nick Markakis
4. Matt Holliday
5. Adrian Gonzalez
6. Matt Wieters
7. Luke Scott
8. Garrett Atkins
9. Cesar Izturis

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

Atkins stinks. Gonzalez is OK, but I think we may have made out better keeping Sherrill and simply signing Figgins or Beltre. We'd have much more money a draft pick, and still could make a big trade.

Good grief, some of you seem to think every offseason move should have been made on the same day, and NOW...these two moves (which I like) don't preclude them from making others...and generally, bigger moves take more time...

Atkins stinks. Gonzalez is OK, but I think we may have made out better keeping Sherrill and simply signing Figgins or Beltre. We'd have much more money a draft pick, and still could make a big trade.

Posted by: Doug | December 17, 2009 12:28 PM
********

You don't just "sign" Figgins and Beltre. Figgins went straight to Seattle signed right away.

Gonzales doesn't stink either. If Atkins comes back, he is better than Beltre and a heck of a lot cheaper.

If Coors field helped Atkins, the Juice helped Beltre

What everybody seems to be forgetting is the presence of the King of Swing. Crowley has a track record as a master of correcting flaws (i.e. Felix Pie, Charles Johnson a few years ago had his best offensive years of his career under Crow's tutelage). He will do wonders with anybody that is willing to work with him (especially a potential free agent like Atkins will be)

Shame on the positive spins.

This team is a mess, and how anyone can feel positive that a 'team' has been built... well, shame on the positive spin!