See Andrews response from previous blog.... He nailed it!

I'm not snowed in at all. But I enjoy reading your stuff anyway, Pete. I'll have a Mai Tai for you today.

PS - I hope you're still wearing your Aloha shirts despite the storm.

"The likelihood of the O's reaching the playoffs this year ranks right behind Kevin Cowherd's chances of winning a medal at the Senior Olympics and me giving up Doritos and Diet Dr Pepper for Lent."

Pete,

a) there's an easy way to give up Doritos and Diet Cr. Pepper, it's called the Cheese Pretzel Combos and Diet Mountain Dew Diet.

b) after reading Cowherd writing multiple times about how the O's need to go out and get Adrian Gonzales without taking into consideration what the move would do to the organization as a whole, I'm pretty convinced he'd have a hard time winning a medal in the Special Olympics.

The team/organization is a puzzle and yes, there are a few pieces missing. Problem is, those pieces aren't available out there right now and you can't just shove a piece that doesn't match into a vacant space. I'm sure that when those pieces are out there, Andy won't hesitate to spend money and act quickly, as was evident with the Gonzalez signing.

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Pete's reply: Thanks for the diet advice, but my fallbacks are Tostitos Scoops and Cherry Zero. I agree with you on the baseball comments, though I still will believe the Orioles will buy a $150 million player when I see him batting cleanup at Camden Yards in the bottom of an inning. I'm not saying they won't, but I just need to see it happen. Oh, and one other thing. Damn you for living in Hawaii.

Hey Wayne,

I read Andrew's post. You know what? He makes some good points. No matter what your perspective, it's hard to disagree or find fault with his comments.

My question to you is: Why can't your posts read like his? You notice that he doesn't call anyone an idiot. No personal attacks. No treating people like they're stupid or ignorant or anything of the like. If you like his post so damn much, why don't you try to emulate it a little bit?

Furthermore, anyone interested in my take on the civility level of this blog can feel free to go way down to the bottom of the Baseball America Prospects post and read my posts (all the way at the bottom). I'd be interested to hear if people think I'm on the mark with what I said.

Enzo,

Thanks for the post!

Because like others, I don't pretend to be the smartest in the room. There's always someone who can better get a point across and Andrew did just that with his post. It truly was spot on.

As for name calling (idiots, etc), that was simply done to bring attention to what people should be talking about..... winning baseball games.

I accomplished such as more people than ever are 'finally' talking about things that are important.

Losing stinks Enzo! Anyone who believes that youth alone, combined with filler veterans, combined with a payroll lower than what should be for market this size, simply feeds the losing.

Andrew has, more eloquently than I obviously, called AM out. If he doesn't pick up the spending, we were than lied to by AM. Period! It can't be spun any other way.

If AM pulls together a deal for AG, then game on. He he doesn't do such however, and brings no significant player in between now and April, then he lied. I can't see how that can be debated!

Thanks again for the post Enzo!

I agree with you Pete, they made three solid moves so far. They still need a big bat in ther middle of the order. Atkins might have a bounce back year but he isnt the protection Nick needs in the order. Andy needs to make an energizing move this offseason. If he has any hope of making a run in 2011 he needs to change the way this organization is viewed by outside players. A stocked farm system is good for a GM but it doesnt mean squat to the free agent weighing his options. Its a tough sell to say come play here and we might be competitve in two years.

Andy needs to overpay someone to get the ball rolling. The way the market is playing out he should sign either Holliday or Bay. Then offer Reimold, Pie and a top pitching prospect or two to San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez . Those moves along with signing Bedard instantly give credibility to the organization and make this season worth watching.

Andy has mentioned he doesnt want to trade prospects for a two year rental but even if he cant resign Gonzalez, he can always be flipped at the deadline for value. It wasnt all that long ago when we heard about how Riley, Cabrera, Lowen, and Bedard would get the Os back into contention. Or a few years before when Mets had a dynasty in the making with Generation K (Bill Pulsipher, Jason Isringhausen, and Paul Wilson). Bottom line is Andy needs to make a bold move and he needs to do it this year.

Counting crows shout out???

McPhail did a good job of bringing in competent players to fill some holes. Unfortunately, in the AL East, competent does not equal competitive, but it is a necessary step in the process.

Everyone is clamoring for a Matt Holliday or an Adrian Gonzales. However, such an acquisition just isn't going to happen this winter.

The only way this team will be able to compete in this division for the long haul is to continue to stockpile and develop young players--especially pitchers--and wait for them to develop.

I don't necessarily buy the notion that the Yankees and Red Sox are getting better with their moves. Each has veteran players that are a year older, some of which are bound to shows signs of age. Instead, they're simply treading water, not sprinting for the finish line like a stoned Michael Phelps chasing a case of Twinkies.

In 2010, if players such as Wieters, Jones, Tillman, Matusz, etc. continue to develop, by extension, the W-L record will also improve. This will make the team more attractive to next winter's crop of free agents.

The best course of action is to find one more competent bat for 2010--a one or two-year deal with Vlad Guerrero as a full-time DH might be a good fit--as a way to help bridge the gap to "competitive."

Then, next winter the team might be able to be able to get the Big One (that's what she said) that can launch them to a more lofty perch in the AL East.

Of course, I said the snow would miss us, so what the hell do I know?

SportSpoof.com

Add me to the list of those who'd like to see Andy make a serious offer to Jason Bay. Yeah I know we already have a left fielder, but talent like Bay's doesn't come along everyday and it never hurts to sign a standout player at any position. Let him and Reimold alternate between 1st and left or between left and DH, or use Reimold in a trade to get someone else, but the O's need to add a threat to the middle of the lineup. I have no problem with what AM has done so far, but it's not nearly enough yet.

I have a difficult time making my mind up about the progress of the team the last few years. On one hand, they have done the right thing in rebuilding player development and focusing on that, and it might not be time to sign expensive free agents who don't quite fit. Maybe it's best to wait for the right deal. Then again, something needs to be done to get out of the funk, and that eventually means ponying up the money. If the Orioles continue to be conservative in their approach, then they may miss a window and continue to languish in their current state of losing. Tough to evaluate.

Arguably the best example of a winning franchise in modern history is the New York Yankees. And in my thinking they are the model. Yes they are a huge market that buys championship caliber teams almost every season. But remember that it was not always so. They did not buy a dynasty. They shelled out money to maintain a dynasty that was built on home-grown talent. Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, Posada. The core. They all broke into the majors together in 1995 with the Yankees. They were homegrown. Included is Bernie Williams who came up through the Yankees system a couple years before. They would not have been a dynasty without this base that they developed themselves. Arguably, thought, they already had some established veterans to help those young guys, like Boggs and Mattingly. We don't really have that.

So though my faith in the Orioles front office is not very strong, I think that we are doing the right thing. The first 10 years of this torture were utter failure. Signing mediocre or aged free agents over and over and over. We've finally broken out of that cycle, and maybe-- just maybe-- we're doing things the dynasty-building way. The way the Yankees did it in the years leading up to 1995. I've stayed with the Orioles long enough to wait and see. And that doesn't make me a naive cheerleader. It just means I'm willing to continue being a fan of the team and cautiously hope.

Wayne says,

"As for name calling (idiots, etc), that was simply done to bring attention to what people should be talking about..... winning baseball games."

So let me get this straight. You call people names and question Pete's integity at every turn because we are not talking about the right things....We don't care about winning if we support the current ownership and management? You are even more narcistic than I first thought. All of us who like the recent moves and trust Andy to improve the team even more are just hacks getting paychecks from the warehouse? There are words to describe someone like you but you may not understand them anyway. You coulsd always start cursing like you did on a previous post.

Wayne says

"I accomplished such as more people than ever are 'finally' talking about things that are important."

Wow, it was you who got this blog straightened out? Ohhhh, I thought you were the one making it no fun?

Wayne says

"Anyway Pete, maybe you can do a follow-up to Andrews post? Please print his first though as it would be the most blunt, honest Sun read in quite some time."

Here you go slamming Peter again. Pretty easy to sit behind your computer and question everyones motives and integrity...

I seem to recall a "ghost of earl" who always liked to make themselves the center of attention. This seems to be your goal and I hesitate to even do this post as it probably stokes your over inflated opinion of yourself even further.

BTW I think AM forgot waaay waaay more about building a competitive baseball team (2 world series rings) than you will ever know

I posted the previous post. Didn't mean to post anonymously although I guess we are anonymous anyway.....

Free agent first baseman and third baseman for next year are horrible.

Peter, it is time to show us you are sincere and tell Andy to go overpay for someone to protect Nick and Adam.

Wayne, Regarding your suggestion that we off load a package of young talent for AG, we tried doing the same thing 20 years ago when we gave up Schilling, Finlay and Harnisch for Glen Davis, a big time power hitter who could anchor our offence.

Three years later, Davis was out of baseball after hitting just 24 HR for us. Schilling turned into an ace that could have lead our staff for the next 15 years, Finlay an All Star GG winning CF for the same period of time and Harnisch a decent 3 or 4 starter for 7 or 8 years.

Sometime the best deal is the one you don't make.

bill frederick:

Wayne is a troll, a person who by definition has mental problems. He most definately has a deep seated need to be "the center of attention".

Two of the 3 moves so far do improve the team instantly. Millwood can go along with Guthrie to have two guys that are guarenteed 200+IP when healthy, and Bergesen shouldn't be far behind. Looking at Brad's stats you can see that his best pitching was done in his last two months (June and July where he posted 2.20 and 2.70 eras) after other teams had time to put together a scouting report on him. Matusz and Tillman have gained some crucial expierence to round out the rotation, and if Mike Gonzalez, Johnson, Mickolio, Koji etc are more rested and in a better position to hold any leads given that will not just translate to more wins, but better morale and confident pitching from the starters.

As I try to understand how McPhail may be thinking I keep coming back to notion that he's waited for this pitching staff and inpaticular the 5 guys in the rotation I mentioned to give the performance that's necessary over the course of an entire season, to put the remaining pieces in place and see his plan come to fruition as you mentioned in the article.

As many others mentioned at some point all the organizational depth will have to translate to a big trade. If all the prospects keep progressing there simply won't be room on the roster for all of them and you have the luxury to make that 5 for 1 trade for a superstar. Plus your not doing it in an attempt to spend or compete with the Yankees & Soxs, but to simply field the best team Baltimore can and let the chips fall were they may. You're not over-extending yourself and sacrificing the near future for a one year shot.

Goals to look for in my mind this season that will ensure the blockbuster moves we all want next year are:

* 75-85 wins
* 3 starting pitchers at or over 200IP
* 3 or more 12-16 game winners
* Stability in the bullpen
* most importantly, sheding the losing attitude, focusing on fundamentals and a strong finish.

These are all reallistic expectations and not overly optimistic.

there you go again bob c. calling people names. Do people still use the word troll by the way? And do all persons who need to be the center of attention have mental problems? I mean that would include an awful lot of people.

Hey wayne, I've invited a few folks to join my tailgating party tomorrow - Lot O, along the fence - I'm the big guy with the big red santa cap. Please stop by if you're going to the game.

bob c, please come by as well. I invited djph and some other dude who is so foul mouthed and a douch on these blogs. Join us please!

We can share some dogs, some brews and have a nice little chat!

AJ,

LOL! I'll absolutely stop by.... I'm in he B/C lot and I can just trek over your way. What time? And can we invite guys like Bob K, bill fred, etc?

You sound like a bigger guy than me, so maybe I'll have a little back-up?

Look forward to it!

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Pete's reply: Wayne, you know better than this, even if you're half-kidding.

Fantastic Wayne. We'll be getting there around 10am. Lot O is the dunkin donut lot where 1300 and 1057 the fan does their live broadcast. I'll be along the far fence. We have a purple ravens van and we'll be cooking grub and drinking brew in front. You won't miss me as I'm a big guy and I'll be wearing a red santa hat (at least that's what i'm told).
Let's see if bob c, djph, bill fred, jim66 or any other of these nasty yahoo's show up. I'm glad to share my party stash with them. Afterall, it's all in fun guys right?
bob c, you'll be there right? you sound like a big ole tough guy? You call people names, say they're mentally ill. Please, come by

AJ:

Yeah, troll is a recognized word as far as internet jargon is concerned. No, it isn't abnormal to seek attention. Anyone who has kids has seen that when a 5 year old, jealous of the attention other kids are getting, starts acting up and commanding attention in the most irritating ways.

It is not normal though to be still doing those kinds of things by the time you reach adulthood. Anyone who still is doing it needs help with whatever is at the root of their arrested development.

AJ:

As far as your invitation is concerned, thanks very much for the offer but not only do I not live in Baltimore, I don't even live in the States. If you are ever planning on being in Toronto, please look me up. As far as me being tough; not really. I'm just an average guy. I've both won and lost my share.

You're spot on with your comments. I've given you a hard time before with your extreme faith in MacPhail but I will give credit now that he is doing something. He at least has filled the holes with major league average players, a huge step from just giving up with proven ML failures like Eaton as he did last year. I do disagree with your comment that we didn't get Lackey because he didn't want to come here. If we had put on a full-court press and offered him top dollar, maybe he would've. All we did was check in, get a price tag, and check out. However, if you're going to challenge the Red Sox and Yankees, you need to be bold. Hoping that your three minor league pitchers all turn out to be aces is unrealistic. Just a glance through Baseball America will show you that maybe, maybe one out of three "stud prospect pitchers" becomes a solid regular. We're told to wait until 2011 (though two years ago it was wait until 2010), but what's the plan if these guys don't pan out? What if Bell never learns to hit lefties and Snyder doesn't develop power? Signing or trading for a star-quality player doesn't mean that he has to block a young player but we seem to believe that. It's okay to have a logjam at a position - good management makes a decision, picks a player, and ends the logjam. A surplus of talent is a good thing, not a bad thing, but all of MacPhail's plans have one solution - pray the young guy develops. Let's try to mix in some stars, be it by trade or signing. It's also time for fans and people posting to stop answering every trade thought by bringing up the ghost of Glenn Davis, as one horrible trade doesn't mean you never trade. Trades for veteran players of a star caliber can work, just ask Frank Robinson's O's teammates.

bob c, that's too bad. You see it's easy to call people names and throw insults when you're so far away/

As for others like djph, bill, etc, the invitation remains open. I have 100% faith wayne will be there. Something tells me the guy doesn't just talk. Let's see what people really have inside.

Nothing like a dog, burger and a beer, before the ravens play da bears to see who really has chops.

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Pete's reply: AJ, no more of this, even if you only mean it in a half-serious way.

I don't understand why people get so chippy posting on a sportswriter's blog.

Lighten up, folks. If you're mature enough, you ignore insulting posts and use common sense to avoid personal attacks. It's a computer, with people you've never met writing whatever they want, not a test of your manhood.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Good point, Chris. If you're more than 11 years old and you're trying to pick a fight on a blog, you need to talk to somebody, and it isn't Don King.

ross -

There are some pretty huge differences between Glenn Davis and Adrian Gonzalez. If you don't know what they are, you probably shouldn't compare the two.

AJ:

If there is one thing I've learned over the years it is that those who are truely tough never say so or imply that they are. I was a bouncer in a bar for several years and came to understand that you never have to worry about the guy who is yelling at you that he's going to come back for you. He never does. The guy to worry about is the guy who keeps his yap shut and just does it.

Hey A.J., am I invited, too?
I don't usually get involved in these childish exchanges, but anytime someone needs to keep reminding us that he's a "big guy," he pretty much needs to be slapped around.
Hey everyone, A.J. will be the guy in Lot O with the Santa hat jammed up his ass.
See you tomorrow.

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Pete's reply: I agree with the rest of the posters. This is getting stupid guys. If you want to compare testicles, do it somewhere else.

AJ are you actually wanting to fight people? over opinions on a blog?..
you really need Jesus
I wouldn't show up at your drunken fest unless you want to have a Bible study or something

Thanks Brooksie,

I really didn't have a response to Ross's Glenn Davis post. I can't imagine the scenario's being more different.

Thanks for the post though Ross!

Now it's a party!

Yo Man Up, bring it on bro! There's plenty of grub and brew to go around.

I said I was a big guy so as to find me easier. If you want to take that as anything else, fine by me.

As for my santa hat. Dude! That's not even right, although I must admit I'd love an excuse to lose the thing.

And bill, who said anything about a fight. Not me bro. A friendly chat maybe, but not a fight! And bring the Bible if you'd like. We need a win bad and could use all the help we can get.

Fun time at M&T!

Wow,

and civility takes another turn for the worse. Now instead of people attacking each other in print, we have people offering up fist fights in parking lots. This isn't even amusing anymore.

BACK TO BASEBALL:

I have to say that a few months ago I was really against the idea of trading prospects for a bit bat. But, the more i've thought about it, the more i'd like to see it. I think we can make a trade here without shipping over all of the key pieces of the future. I think we actually can make this thing work and have the best of both worlds.

Looking at what the Sox offered for AGonz and looking at what we offered, I think we're really in this game if we want to be. A lot of people have said over the course of the last month or so that (1) SD will never trade AGonz and (2) It would take our whole farm system. Now, both of those are seeming like they are not true.

(1) SD, although publicly saying that they are not trading him, now are hinting at the possibility. They say they're keeping their ears open, etc. That's tactical speak for yes, he's on the block. And, even though he doesn't cost them much to keep now, he doesn't represent anything for their future. He's gone from there in two years. That man is gonna get fuckin paid. And it aint gonna be from the Pads. That's for sure. and they know that. Furthermore, the closer to that deadline they get, the smaller the packages will be. This is only logical. The more a team needs to trade a guy, the less other teams are willing to give for him. It's a matter of leverage. Now, the Pads have leverage and may be willing to exact it now. So, the Pads are gonna want a return for this guy at some point. Why not get a return when the value is at its highest? Yes, it may hurt them with their fans and tix sales in the short term. But, the Pads are in rebuilding mode. If they trade AGonz now, they will have players that are ready to compete in two years. Around the time that they would be losing him. So, if you think from a strategic standpoint. Getting prospects now helps them in a few years when they will be more ready to compete. They have a new GM, surely he's thinking long term rather than short term. I think they want to move him now.

(2) I was surprised to see their reaction to our package. It seems like they didn't dismiss is outright. We offered (to my knowledge) (1) Arietta (2) Pie (3) Hernandez (4) Snyder. That's a big package with a lot of prospects. But, its not a break that bank kind of package. We still keep, Bergensen, Matusz, Tillman, Bell, Britton, Erbe, Wieters, Patton etc. The vast majority of the youth movement stays. Now, they did reject that package. But, what they said was they wanted Reimold instead of Pie. That sounds to me like we're in the ballpark. And, losing those guys, even if Reimold is in the package still feels worth it to me. Plus we would then keep Pie.

Think about it. even from the optimistic perspective. Arietta look like he could be good, but is as of yet still unproven even at AAA. Hernandez looks like he could be a good reliever but probably doesn't have the pitch selection to be a starter. Sndyer has a lot of promise, but is still a big question mark. Yes, we loved Reimold. But, we have a lot of depth in the outfield. Along with pitching, we have a ton of depth at that position in the minors. And, unlike pitching, our current major league outfield is already a strength. We could afford to lose Reimold if it would bring a hitter with the production and potential (in OPACY) of AGonz, plus his GG defense at first.

So, i know this was a long one. But, not only would i live to see this trade happen. I really think we could see it happen. Not in fantasy land. In the real world. Or at least, as one of the optimists, I hope...

not brooks:

There was no shortage of people at the time who thought that getting Davis was a great deal for the Os. I merely was trying to make the point that trading young kids for a proven star CAN blow up in your face. It isn't automaticly all blue skies.

Maybe if Angelos read this horrible blog he would change his mind and get real baseball players so people dont go nuts!

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Pete's reply: I'm just glad you read this horrible blog. Shows you have low standards, which adds lots of credibility to your opinion.

ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE

Pete, you say "Whether their image will ever change depends on two things -- a much better performance on the field and a fan base that is willing to accept that things have changed."

I think people know that things have changed, but we still don't know what the O's are attempting. Andy MacPhail can talk all he wants, but we have a longer history with Mr. Angelos. Despite anything the front office may say, we just don't know if the O's are only trying to stop the losing streak or whether the plan is to be competitive. We're suckers if we get all excited to have the O's stop improving once they win 81 games. After years of watching incompetence, we have good reason to remain skeptical of the Angelos Orioles and give them no benefit of the doubt.

Enzo,
Your last post, where is your source. Last I heard, MacPhail asked the Padres about Gonzalez, but it didn't go too far.

"(2) I was surprised to see their reaction to our package. It seems like they didn't dismiss is outright. We offered (to my knowledge) (1) Arietta (2) Pie (3) Hernandez (4) Snyder. That's a big package with a lot of prospects. But, its not a break that bank kind of package. We still keep, Bergensen, Matusz, Tillman, Bell, Britton, Erbe, Wieters, Patton etc. The vast majority of the youth movement stays. Now, they did reject that package. But, what they said was they wanted Reimold instead of Pie. That sounds to me like we're in the ballpark. And, losing those guys, even if Reimold is in the package still feels worth it to me. Plus we would then keep Pie."

Guys and girls, Wayne is getting just want he wants, a lot of attention. I read what he says, he has a valid point in there every so often, but the fact of the matter is, he really doesn't know or understand what it takes to build a baseball team.

Pete says the Orioles right moves aren't exciting. People, it is the unexciting moves that make a winning team. I take you back to 1979, as an example.

In the off season, in the small type reserved for the transactions section, there was a blurb about the Orioles signing a left hand hitting OF whose previous claim to fame was hitting 242 three out of four years while with the Indians.

Then early in the season, before the Orioles really started winning, they brought up the right hand hitting counterpart to the a-fore mentioned lefty. Together, these moves brought a collective yawn from the Memorial Stadium crowds.

However, John Lowenstein and Benny Ayala provided the manager with his favorite thing in the world, aside from Raleigh cigarettes, "deep depth" and a one-two punch from the bench. These guys combined for 17 HRs in part time roles and were huge in the Orioles getting to the Series.

Keep in mind that that O's team and the ones going forward had home grown players in the core. Murray, Dauer, Belanger, Garcia, DeCinces, Palmer, Flanagan, Bumbry, et al. That core led to the Birds last WS win.

It was only after those core players got old and the team went away from the tried and true build from within philosophy that they went into a deep tailspin. Lee Lacy, Don Aase, Terry Kennedy, Rick Burleson, Fred Lynn all led to 0-21. And ya know what? It was home grown young Birds that led to Why Not. Ripken, Milacki, Milligan, Worthington et al all played big parts in the Orioles resurgence.

Do you see my point?

While the Waynes of the world would have the GM to trade some of the club's priceless future for a short term gain, or sign an expensive FA whose contract would hamstring the team for years to come, the prudent and proper thing is for the Orioles to continue on their present course, do everything they can to ensure the success of their young players and then when things are right, strike. Now is not the time, no matter what Cowherd or Wayne or Andrew or any of these guys say.

Anyone who says the Orioles are not in their best position since 1997 is just not paying attention. Tell me, would you really rather have the Yankees or Red Sox? Sure the Yankees won the WS last year but they have a very old team with few parts on the farm. Granderson is a nice player, but has a low OBP and is nothing against LH pitchers. The Teixera deal means that there is no where for ARod to play when
he can't anymore play third. Jeter is 36, where to put him, how many years at SS does he have left? Damon, Posada, Pettite, all in their late 30's. Nick Johnson is a pulled muscle waiting to happen.

And the Red Sox aren't much better off. Sure Lackey was the best pitcher out there this off season, but that doesn't mean he is a franchise pitcher. Remember, he too is dealing with injury and made just 51 starts the past two years. Can he really be counted on to be a staff ace for years to come? Cameron is ancient, who'se gonna play third, what, another shortstop? The pen is weak, is Dice K gonna be a pitcher again, lots of questions.

I too am tired of losing, the 12 season drought has been ridiculous. But it is equally ridiculous to deny that this team is on the right track. All I can say is, forget the past. A winning team takes patience. This won't be a team filled with has beens and never wasses, the 2010 Orioles will be filled with hungry, exciting young players eager to prove their worth. Be patient, as much as it hurts, the payoff in the end will be well worth it.

Well said Ken.

Nice post Ken,

I'll disagree with you however without suggesting you know nothing about the game.

I will say the game has dramatically changed since 1979, and no one would ever think teams can consistently build in such a style again.

While I'll never claim we should or could spend like the Yanks or Sox, it's ludicrous to suggest those teams are wearing down. In their worst years Ken, they'll be playing meaningful ball in September. No, they don't always win the series, but they'll compete year in and year out.

But it's not about them, it's about the O's. One thing is for sure.... Some of those you mention as the 'priceless future' will fail. It's how baseball works and is why real team don't bank everything on youth and prospects.

St Louis builds their youth, then pays top dollar for proven veterans who perform. It's a formula that competes. It's a formula that allows teams in markets such as Baltimore to have chance.

I don't pretend to know it all, but if you choose to take shots at me, I really don't mind.

Andrews post earlier talks about how AM made certain promises going into the 2010 season. Please refer to his post. It's a very simple case of whether he'll be true to his word or if he was being completely untruthful. We'll see!

I just want to win Ken! I sit out there many nights and witness very bad baseball by the home team. This team won 64 games last year and people continue to preach patience. I'm not looking for a contender...just the possibility of 81 wins.

Yes, as Pete mentioned, the current roster is better than at the end of 09'. Problem is, we're actually comparing something to what was possibly one of the worst teams the O's have fielded in their history. The losses simply proved as much!

We should want better. We should want wins!

Pete,

I think your article today was fair and to the point, dead on! Our youngsters are at different levels away from being .500. Betting the farm on Snyder and Bell, is just a folly, look at the track record we have with the development of everyday players, and no Matt Wieters could have come straight to the majors, he may have struggled early but we knew when we drafted him what we were getting. Since with play in AL and any high end corner infielder could ultimately move to DH should both Snyder and Bell tear up MLB pitching. So I'm glad your off the O's Kool Aid, and see all this for what it really is, bargain shopping continues at Birdland.

Well we all love our O's but it seems that most of us love them more than PA! We remain a distant 4th or 5th in the division, Millwood, a 3 or 4 in a 5 man rotation, will eat innings and provide leadership and some of the youngsters will continue to develop. It will be exciting times for the patient, but hell for those of us wanting to see a real committment from ownership! AM can only do so much, but if they got Jason Bay or Holiday all it costs is money and 2nd round draft pick. Reimhold could move to 1b or DH as could either of those guys! Its time our front office looks past profits and looks at this from the fans perspective on why would someone want to pay to see these guys play!

Keith Rowe, You realize that if you're right, that "It will be exciting times for the patient", that if you don't have a good time it will be because you have chosen not too. That would be sad.

Goof stuff Keith,

I guess we'll see if AM was telling the truth (see Andrews post). Odds are, as has been the case with PA for years, he likely wasn't.

We can hope!

wayne... just because Andrews post is more civil and along your process, doesn't make him remotely right.

1. Yes, the team is ready to "open the pocketbooks". But, this years FA class is weak and NOT OVER YET. Its only 12/19. There were two solid pitchers (Lackey, Wolf) two 3b's (Figgins- only went to Seattle and Beltre- wants WAY too much money) an OF (Holliday) and a bunch of guys coming off injury.

2. No one (not MacPhail) has said they would put off signing someone until they were a step away. They would however wait to TRADE the future if they knew they were a player away. The farm system needs time to get restocked after years of picking Jeff Fiorentino and 155lbs. of Brandon Fahey.

3. You can't speculate on trades, far too many variables to make an educated guess. You don't know what the other teams want, need, or if they even want to give said player up. Its all worthless speculation. There are so many rumors out there and writers and ESPN people trying to make a name for themselves, they will make up any crap to get their name printed.

4. MacPahil was far from cheap in Chicago. With not much FA talent out there, why screw with the future payroll and be stuck with Beltre for 5 years/$60 mil. Next years market is supposed to be much better.

5. Last, until FA's recognize them as a team on the rise, they won't sign here (Tex). Even if the O's are good, they may not want to sign here. This isn't Madden... click a few buttons and sign your guy.

6. Adrian Gonzales is a two year rental. Same with Fielder (if not less). They will sign for boo-koo cash in free agency.

I want to win, also, Wayne. I guess it's just a matter of how to go about it.

If you want a newer example of winning through the draft, try the Yankees of ten years ago. That team was built almost exactly the same way as what Mac is trying to do.

Good young talent, obtained thru the draft, shall I name them? Jeter, Williams, Posado, Pettite, Rivera, suuplanted by key trades and FA signings. And even their free agents were not budget busters. Thats why the Yankees were able to maintain there competetive edge for so many years. And then when the time came, they struck. Hello, ARod, Hello Teixera. Well, the Orioles are trying to do the same thing. Remember, the Yankees went thru a long drought before they started winning again in 1995. They missed the post season 13 years in a row, they they were more often in contention than not. But Steinbrenner allowed his baseball people, hello Joe Torre, to take over, and look what's happened.

Well, it looks like Angelos, a la the Boss, might be ready to let his baseball people tahe over. No one can deny what Mac has done, and from the beginning he has laid out what he was gonna try to do. And he is doing it. To my knowledge, he has never promised anything without doing his best to deliver.

Trust me, I am as intrigued by the likes of Adrian Gonzales and Jason Bay as the next guy. But is it the right thing to do now for future success? I don't think so, which is where the lot of us differ.

I'm sorry if I offended you with how I began my last post, but it seems that whatever they do short of trading for A Gonz or signing Bay or Holliday is not good enough for you and that is to what I object. Mac is a quality exec, his ytrack record proves it. Let's leave it to him, I think the results will speak for themselves.

Pete--Your column captures the multitude of feelings that course through an Oriole fan. Good job.

I'm proud of my Scarlet Knights tonight.

Shamrock,

I hear you...... Some points are certainly debatable.

As for the two year rental mentality however, if we're saying the O's can never sign a stud long term then they'll never seriously compete.

SHAMROCK:

It would be so nice if people understood your 5th point namely, "Last, until FA's recognize them as a team on the rise, they won't sign here (Tex). Even if the O's are good, they may not want to sign here. This isn't Madden... click a few buttons and sign your guy." There would be a lot less gnashing of teeth around here if people could wrap their heads around that simple truth.

I'm somewhere in the middle right now. Pete, you seem to be basically packing it up, patting Andy on the back and calling it a good winter already.

I don't agree with that entirely. I really like the moves that we've made and I do feel like we're better than 2009, but that's a low bar to clear.

We still have way too many arms that are wasting away or will waste away in our system. Adding Millwood takes another rotation spot and adding someone like Bedard could contract another. We've already lost Steve Johnson for nothing. At some point there is an educated risk that needs to take place. Otherwise maybe Tillman (or any of the others) becomes the next Penn, Olson, Lopez, or even Ponson. The scouts should know what we have and what's fair in return. That's their job.

We have the pieces to make one meaningful trade this year and not feel it too much. This is the year a trade makes the most sense because the FA's are so weak. Next winter there is no need to give anyone up because the FA class will have more available. This is also the year to strike via trade because someone has to be here to draw the big free agents we'll really want.

We're not much better off if in 2011 if half our prospects went bust and no free agent will take our money. Then it's looking to 2012 instead and.....well you get the idea.

I think there will be something done before camp. If not, I think it's a missed opportunity. We'll win more games, but we won't be past 4th place unless the stars magically align.

So I'm still optimistic about 2010, but it's not "excitement" by any means.

What do you guys think'll be the lineup, rotation and roster if we break spring training with what we've got right now?

The hardest part is filling out the cleanup spot, because the whole lineup is built off of that and then the lead off. Atkins was pretty good on both sides of the 4 spot in his heyday, but barring an impressive showing in Sarasota we can't just give him the spot, can we? When Jones is playing his best he could bat there. As could Kakes, who's probably our best hitter, but Jones and he batted best going 2 and 3. Scott is just unreliable, but if he's strong out of spring training after cutting logs all off season, I say start him there. If he does real well, and we have someone to take his spot, he could be trade bait later on. Wieters could be one day, but he should be protected a while before he's comfortable and we've seen what his potential is. We don't have 7 or 8 guys that could hit 20+ homers, like the Yanks, but we have more than we need to fill the 2, 3, 5 and 6 spots.

I'm putting this down:

LINEUP:
April 6, 2010 --------- October 3, 2010
Roberts -------------- Roberts
Markakis ------------- Jones
Jones ---------------- Markakis
Scott ------------------ Atkins
Reimold ------------- Wieters
Wieters -------------- Reimold
Atkins ---------------- Scott
Aubrey --------------- Snyder
Izturis ---------------- Izturis

BENCH:
April 6,2010 ---------- October 3, 2010
Wigginton ------------ Wigginton
Andino ---------------- Andino
Pie --------------------- Pie
Moeller --------------- Moeller

ROTATION:
April 6,2010 ---------- October 3, 2010
Millwood -------------- Millwood
Guthrie ---------------- Guthrie
Bergesen ------------- Bergesen
Matusz ----------------- Matusz
Tillman ---------------- Tillman

BULLPEN:
April 6,2010 ---------- October 3, 2010
Gonzalez ------------- Gonzalez
Johnson ------------- Johnson
Uehara --------------- Uehara
Mickolio -------------- Mickolio
Hernandez ---------- Hernandez
Hendrickson ------- Hendrickson
Meredith ------------- Arrieta

Note: I didn't take expanded rosters into consideration, but I think you all catch my drift. I think this is a good, realistic way of looking at it all. If we end up with 6 starters (especially if we sign Bedard), we could trade Millwood at the deadline. Same with Gonzalez if we have enough options to close and Scott, Pie, Montanez and/or Wigginton if some of the boys graduate to the bigs. Maybe, if we have these options, we could even package some of these guys and a prospect or two to a team for that power-hitting corner infielder and we'll get our Christmas in July.

Maybe it's evident in my projections, but I'm really hoping Atkins surprises us all. I'd be so happy to see him go .280 20-25 100 in 150 games and play some decent third, and I don't think that's out of the question.

So, what do ya guys think?? Pete??

Pete

Your post draws a contrast between "what makes sense and what is going to get the fans excited." The implication is that the fans are lusting for a big-name acquisition, whether that would make sense or not. I don't think that's true at all. Many of your correspondents who are urging AM to go hard after Holliday and A. Gonzalez appear to be clear-thinking, knowledgeable baseball people who have offered cogent reasons why such moves WOULD make sense. Perhaps what you meant was that such moves aren't part of AM's PLAN, which is not the same as saying that they wouldn't necessarily benefit the team. These fans clearly don't trust the PLAN, because, based on bitter past experience (and some of AM's own third-rate acquisitions last year and this year), they're not sure how much of it is based on sound planning and how much of it is controlled by an aversion to spending money.

I'm afraid I'm with Wayne, AJ, and others on this issue. Ownership has used up its goodwill. If it wants its credit restored, it is going to have to start coming through. 98 losses, for a storied baseball franchise, is disgraceful; it's humiliating.
The journey up from there to 98 wins, or even 89 wins, is steep and long. To think that a group of untested prospects can carry the load on its own is delusional.

I'm all for developing young talent. That's essential, and I give AM credit for doing it. But, I'm also all for keeping on the major league roster ONLY the very best of that talent, players who, in performance, not just in potential, SURPASS the ML average. Right now, that means Wieters, Matusz, Bergeson and Reimold--that's all. Excepting a few others (Roberts, Markakis, M. Gonzalez, and maybe Jones), the rest of the roster is composed of weak players, or one-dimensional players, or streaky players, or were-good-once players, or if=they-can-recover-their-form players, or if-healthy players, or may-be-good-someday players. The argument for adding proven, top-flight major league talent, and adding it NOW, is overwhelming.

Even if Holliday and A. Gonzalez were added for 2010, there would remain many weaknesses, including coaching and managing weaknesses. I suspect the team might win 80 games or thereabouts, not enough to win even a wild-card spot in the AL East. What such moves would do, however, is tell the baseball world in no uncertain terms that the O's are serious about winning. That in turn would attract other equally good, or even better, players next year. Meanwhile, if another prospect is tearing up AAA, bring him up by all means. But let's all take off our rose-colored glasses. Lots more moves, AFTER Holliday/A. Gonzalez/Bedard, are going to have to be made before the O's can win in our division. It will be an ongoing, and neverending, process. LET'S GET MOVING.

Peter-
The frustrating part is, HOW FAR AWAY ARE WE?

I mean, if they traded for Gonzales, the offense would be finished.
There are Markakis, Jones, and Roberts, who are proven, then Weiters and Reimold who are up-and -coming, but going into year 2.
The ONLY 2 spots are 1st adn 3rd, and Bell is right there. It's ok to have 1 rookie on the field and still compete.
Gonzales would make everyone else so much better.

I don't understand what they are waiting for. Christ, if they sign Bedard, they have again, a legit Ace (when healthy), that can beat anyone anytime, anywhere.

Pete - you do realize you get to APPROVE comments, right? How about simply ignoring/not publishing the trash?

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I'l go back and see if anything needs to be deleted, but the reason I don't approve each comment individually is because it slows down the conversation.

Dan and Enzo propose censorship

Maybe u guys should find a nice blog in China

Martin Luther King once said:

"beware the tranquilizing drug of gradualism"

I think thats the biggest problem those of us who arent buying into the "plan" have. Why does everything have to be baby steps? There is elite talent out there to be had, the only thing missing is the WILL to obtain it.. WE dont need a big FA class we just need some more experienced talent for the pitching staff and a true clean up hitter.. WE dont need a big FA class to get a clean up hitter, there are two proven ones out there. WHo cares if they play LF? u can flip Reimold for something in a trade and if Reimold isnt well regarded enough to bring back anything decent in a trade than he shouldnt be the reason to stop us from getting an established clean up hitter in the first place. Ive heard hes drawn interest from at least KC and SD (Butler, Gonzalez,anyone ?). It would be a nice change to have a real 1bman instead of whatever retread is expected to trot out there on OD

There are people who say that they "know it doesnt compare to the other teams in the ALEast". Well, considering we play those teams 76 games, it should.

If AM were bold, decisive and cared about winning., this team could get interesting in a hurry. Instead of having no true clean up hitter (which has been missing for years), we could have two. but everyone knows clean up hitters cost money --which brings us back to the curious policy that the Os say dont want to spend money until we're competitive, but how are u supposed to be competitive if we never add any premium talent ? Its a nice little system that AM has to exonerate himself from ever being accountable. if we never win enough to justify spending money, he can avoid ever spending any real money and can keep his rep for running a PROFITABLE franchise. Ill admit, he's set himself up with a nice little system of never having to actually produce a winner. How else could you explain people having so much faith in a guy who has only had 8 of 24 winning seasons as GM Oh thats right, he's not FLanny, lol, well he aint Theo either.

The O's have some prospects that AM could use as trade chips and there are still some talented players available in FA. How about we get a consistent run producer to rely on instead of hoping some cat magically regains his form that may never return or counting on a guy WHO HAS NEVER ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL to beat the SKanks and SUx

Oh yeah, prospects and retreads are cheaper. why bother trying to win when you can get away with excuses and waiting til next yr?

It only been 12 yrs, whats the hurry ?

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Or, it's possible -- just possible -- that this is the only way to get there in the situation they are in. I don't know if I'd pay what it would take to get Matt Holliday, since you'd be paying $100 million to leave a huge defensive hold in your infield, but I'd sure like to make a run at Adrian Gonzalez. By the way, another great thinker -- me -- once said this: "Beware comparing something as sacred as the civil rights movement with baseball."

Christian... I think Meredith bumps Hendrickson. He's pretty solid, he was sub 4.00 era last season and less a few meltdowns, pretty sharp over all. Prob see some Berken up if anyone struggles.

He was a steal getting him for Salazar. Much more serviceable than the piles of ground beef they have been running through the pen the last year or two (Bass, McCrory, Lambert, Henn, et al.

Good Article Pete...

It sucks that this year they are more willing to spend, but there is no one to spend anything on.

Holliday is going to want Tex money and Beltre is on crack what hes asking for. Holliday scares me. Not worth 20mil a year for 25 HRs and 110 RBI's. Markakis can do that.

Ryan -

On Bedard, the "legit" piece and the "when healthy" piece cancel each other out. At this point, we don't even know if Bedard's ever going to pitch in the majors again. And he's coming back from a major shoulder surgery, so who knows what kind of stuff he's going to have?

On Gonzalez, you're mostly right, but you have to assume that Reimold would be a big piece required to grab Gonzalez in a trade.

Moving on...

On Holliday, I'm simply confused about how this whole thing seems to be playing out. Apparently, the Cardinals are/were offering a five to eight year deal that paid Holliday somewhere around $16M per season.

The Red Sox told Boras that they would be interested if Holliday would take five years and less per year than the Cards were offering. What?

The Yankees seem dormant, but they could obviously jump in at any point, though it seems unlikely that they would add Holliday at $17-18M per when they need another starter, need to keep money available for the Jeter extension and in case Rivera wants to keep playing, and could just start the season with Melky Cabrera, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher in the outfield.

The Mets seem intent on overpaying for Jason Bay. Maybe Omar Minaya thinks that his team moved to the American League? I don't know. But the Mets should have a lot of money to spend and Holliday certainly seems like the better bet for an NL team, as Bay is probably a better fit for the DH spot considering his horrendous defense.

The only other teams that could afford to offer Holliday $17-18M per are Philly and both LA teams, and none of them need a corner outfielder.

So, at this point, it seems as though Boras is trying to get the most money out of the Cardinals. Doesn't seem to be working out well for him though, as none of the other big spenders are truly involved.

So, back to my original thought on Holliday: Offer up six years, $115M (about $19M per) and frontload the crap out of the deal. Pay him $25M in 2010 and then escalate down, so that if he collapses in the last year, when he's 36, you're only out $12M or $15M.

Then, again, as I said before, use Reimold as the co-headliner in a deal to get Adrian Gonzalez, and you'll instantly have one of the best lineups in the AL.

Then, after the 2010 season, sign either Josh Beckett or Cliff Lee to a big deal, and the concern of hanging on to Gonzalez should go away, because adding a power hitting first baseman, a power hitting left fielder and a top of the rotation starter will make this team a contender in 2010. And Peter Angelos will certainly be willing to pay $100M+ for a contender because a contender will bring the fans back to the yard.

End.

PS - I know it's nowhere near as easy to actually do all this as it is to write about doing it, but when you have a player like Holliday on the market and there isn't some crazy bidding war going on, you do what you can to get him. Same thing with Gonzalez. He's clearly available, and we have the pieces, so let's get him. The pitcher for 2011 just falls into place, as guys will actually want to come here when they see the team making huge moves that will bring huge strides in the AL East.

Peter-

Maybe you could relay to "dan" that the reason you don't just go through and delete the "trash", is because, well, 1 reason is our family members that ran into a hail of gunfire on a little beach in Northwestern France 65 years ago to protect things like freedom of speech.
Don't read what you don't want "dan".

not brooks --

I like your reasoning. The Cards seemingly being the only competition, I think Holliday could probably be had for 6/$105 mil ($17.5/year).

The O's had the highest ERA in all of baseball. Do you think the reason for the teams disappointed is rooted from their hitting or pitching? Their offense has been just fine. They can score runs. That is not the problem. The problem has been PITCHING. As long as we are able to improve the pitching, that by itself will make the team more competitive.

Even if we do not sign Bedard, or a pitcher of his caliber, we still have 3 young pitchers who should improve from last year. Bergensen was outstanding. People forget how he was the most consistent pitcher we had as a ROOKIE. Had he not been injured by the come backer, he could have made a case for ROY. Matusz finished last year very strong at the end. He is still considered a rookie for next season and should make his own case for ROY since he will be starting the season at the majors. Tillman is no longer considered a rookie, but he is so young he should also improve. He may need to work on his command, but he has high expectations for next season as well.

Those 3 young starting pitchers are no longer prospects. They are going to be starting in the rotation at the beginning of the season. The future is now. Just think about the next crop that is on the cusp. They are loaded with pitching talent. You can't just trade your pitching away for a 1B that will be gone in two years. It makes more sense to sign a 1B who you do not need to trade ANYONE. That is why Delgado is the perfect fit. Think what kind of damage he will do with that short right field fence. He would surely sign a 1 or 2 year deal with incentives. You could get just as much production out of him as Gonzalez WITHOUT giving up anyone. And guess what? If we don't get Delgado, next year's free agent class is even deeper. So if they don't make a push this year, they can get a big bat next year WITHOUT giving up their farm system. It has taken over 2 years to build up the farm and you want to dismantle it already? That makes no sense. I'm all for the O's making a big signing, but not at the expense of trading away the players they have been developing over the past few years. Then when they are gone, you have nothing left.

In response to all the meet up and fight talk... I will see you all at the corner of Howard and Pratt... and this time WE PLAY FOR KEEPS!

or...

Public TV News Anchor: Not so fast, you ingrates. Public News Team is taking a break from its pledge drive to kick some a$$. No commercials, no mercy.

Ron Burgundy: Let's go over the groundrules. Rule number 1: No touching of the hair or face... AND THAT'S IT!

Ron Burgundy: Let's dance, d!ckweed.
Wes Mantooth: You wanna dance, Burgundy? [whips out a knife] I wanna polka.

Later...

Ron Burgundy: Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
Champ Kind: It jumped up a notch.
Ron Burgundy: It did, didn't it?
Brick Tamland: Yeah, I stabbed a man in the heart.
Ron Burgundy: I saw that. Brick killed a guy. Did you throw a trident?
Brick Tamland: Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident.
Ron Burgundy: Brick, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you're probably wanted for murder.

Ron Burgundy: I'm proud of you fellas. You all kept your head on a swivel, and that's what you gotta do when you find yourself in a vicious cock fight.

Holliday is not worth 17mil a year. Holliday three years ago in Colorado, yes, not .310 25 hr 99 rbi holliday.

i think Markakis would say wtf to him getting 17mil a year

Who cares what Nick Markakis wants? We are talking about a better player in Holliday and Nick knows that. It doesnt matter if Pete the Greek loves him like the son he never had that can play baseball.

I am declaring this blog and anything related to the state of baseball in Maryland a emergency. Evacuate and move to NY, Boston or Philly while you still can!

SCAMROCK

Holliday has been to a WS and has exp as a guy who can liftup a team and carry them on his back. As much as i like Nick hes not that guy and he needs someone to help him.

"Dan and Enzo propose censorship

Maybe u guys should find a nice blog in China"

I propose civility. And I propose that threats, literal threats of fights and beating each other up, be censored. This isn't a message board, it's a blog run by a news org.

This is a mute argument because Markakis is one of 3 untouchable players on this team at the moment.
However, I would like to make the point that while Holliday's definitely better offensively AT THIS MOMENT, well, at least NL Holliday, Markakis is FAR BETTER defensively, and you would be sacrifiving 4 seasons.
Nick is just 26 while Holliday is gonna be 30 in 2 weeks.

Who really knows what kind of numbers Nick is gonna start putting up once he is properly protected.

Holliday didn't do ANYTHING in Oakland. In Colorado he had Hawpe, Helton, and others. He didn't start hitting last year until he had Pujols hitting in front of him. Go figure.

So, don't make decisions so blindly.

Holliday didn't even crack into the majors until he was 24.

Markakis is FAR BETTER THAN WHERE HOLLIDAY WAS AT 26. It isn't even a comparison.

Nick is a good guy and may be a Holiday level player in the future however, we need an actual Holiday level player now in real time to make the overall team better. Maybe Nick breaks out this year and shows he is the guy that can help us get a winning record but....

Schmuckeroni,

You responded by saying macphails way is the ONLY way to rebuild this team. Really ?!?!? ANd you know this how ? The ONLY way, wow!

I certainly remember the Os winning before macphail got here. They did pretty good with that Gillick guy was running things and they actually put elite talent on the field and werent automatically disqualified from the best players.

Before this current string of losing, the Orioles franchise never had more than 3 losing seasons in a row. WE're well on our way to 13. IF your golden boy doesnt produce a winner this season, it will be 3 full losing seasons for AM here and 17 of 25 losing seasons in his career.

Those Os teams in the 60's, 70s and 80's did ok without your hero too. But hey, if "things fall into place" and some retread resurrects his old form, blah blah blah. You know how you make things fall into place ? TALENT

And I wasnt comparing baseball to the civil rights movement. Way to get all sanctimonious there. Back in college, I got an A in a poli sci paper quoting earl weaver for politics, so whats the harm in quoting MLK in baseball ? I was using the quote to illuminate the indifference macphails languid approach has invoked with whats left of the fanbase and how baby steps dont seem to cut it anymore---not comparing baseball to the civil rights movement , but you knew that already.

Im not sure if the "casual fan" even exists anymore, they certainly dont seem to care-- if attendance at camden yards is any sort of barometer

I was also proposing Holliday or Bay AND Gonzalez or Butler, so there would be no hole in the infield. If you ever questioned macphails methods, instead of simply parroting them, maybe your mind would be a little more open to something other than the ONLY way to turn this around. The only way is macphails way, yeah right. LOL. Good one Schmuckie.

It seems to me that MacPhails way is simply to run a highly profitable team until he takes over as commissioner. IF some prospects actually amount to anything, great maybe they'll win. Ol Dandy Andy isnt going to press the Issue, especially if it means spending the money it would take on elite FA's, but hey Andys way is the only way, the Schmuckster said so and everything.

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Pete's reply: Jason, you obviously don't read very closely. I said it was "possible -- just possible -- that MacPhail's way is the only way" in this environment. Go back and check that out, because it's quite a big difference from what you claim I said.

Ryan -

Holliday got off to a poor start in Oakland, but why don't you actually look up his stats from May through July 24th? And then consider that he was putting up those numbers after switching to the more difficult league and playing in the worst hitters park in the game with the league's least imposing offense around him (the A's were last in the AL and HR and SLG). The guy didn't get a pitch to hit for four months. I think his AL numbers are pretty good considering the contributing factors.