As it should be well known by now, I'm down with Kouz.

Also, the A's just released Santiago Casilla. He's been dealing with some injuries over the past two seasons, but when he's healthy, he's good.

Worth a minor league contract to get a shot in the pen, I would say.

Kevin Kouzmanoff is by far the Orioles best option at 3B. He hit pretty well in the one-man lineup that is San Diege (.255, 18HR, 88 RBI's) and is still relatively young at 28. Plus, he's one of baseball's best defensive third basemen. Let's go out and get KOUZZZZZZ!

And Kouzmanoff IS going to sell tickets?

Uggla already said he has no interest in moving to third, so that's not an option.

win some damn games and that will sell tickets , the problem is Angelos prefers to have money not wins

I am sure MacPhail is waiting to see what happens with Kouz--he might be come a lot easier to obtain soon

Does everyone realize how bad this team will be next year? Do you really understand?

Millwood, Guthrie and a bunch of inexperianced starters who likely will struggle (like most young pitches do). No closer, No corners (until they get someone that won't even make news on espn's Inside Baseball.

Oh, I'll pay for my season tix like always.... but that's only because I'm a moron.

Does anyone really see what's happening though?

WAKE UP!

I'm happy Feliz will be in Houston. He makes Wigginton & Izturis look like patient hitters.

Kousmanoff would be a good pick-up. His fielding has improved every year. And his bat ain't bad.

Uggla might me more flexible in the long run though. I know his defense at 3B is a mystery (though his 2B ain't great, so what does that say...), but you have to think his bat would still play at DH when Bell comes up, whereas Kousmanoff would be more of a back-up or need to be dealt once Bell is here.

You're gonna have to give up someone for either of them, so I guess it just depends on what the asking price for each is. There seems to be more interest in Kousmanoff though, so that may work against him for Baltimore.

*snore*

wayne,

You're Brummie light. Give it up, it's not becoming of you.

"Millwood, Guthrie and a bunch of inexperianced starters who likely will struggle (like most young pitches do)."

If you remember last season, we had Guthrie, Uehara, Simon, Hendrickson and Eaton... so Millwood, Guthrie, Bergesen, Matusz and Tillman is already a huge improvement.

Who did we have at 1B last year? Huff. And how did that turn out? How did his bat play last year? How was his D? Aubrey is already an improvement there.

Mora at 3B... well, his D was good. That's about all. Not going to be hard to replace his bat.

Wake up. Use what little amount of brain power you have left and apply some logic to the situation before your fingers hit the keys. If you're not capable of that... well then I guess you already said it... You're a moron.

wayne,

at least you're right about the moron part.

Go O's!

Kouzmanoff might be a plus defender, but his bat? Yeah, he hit 18 HR with 31 2B, but his line was 255/302/420 with an abysmal 27 walks in 600 PA. I would say OPACY is a better hitter's park than Petco, but that's balanced by facing a steady diet of Sabathia, Pettite, Beckett, and Jon Lester.

Like Pete said, there are no real difference makers out there right now, and Wigginton's stats and history are no worse then some of what's out there right now. We could do worse than Wiggy at third and Aubrey at first. I wouldn't mind a run at Adam LaRouche, I think with his swing he could do well at the yards.

To answer your question, Wayne, yeah, I see what is happening, maybe better than you. The process is long and time consuming and if you're not willing to stay the course, then you are a moron.

At least you are putting your money where your mouth is, which is more than a lot of these people can say, so for that you are to be commended.

Well I must own up to being wrong on the winter meetings. I didn't expect anything of importance to happen, and then McPhail goes and trades for Millwood.
I think Millwood will be a good fit and I am feeling pretty optimistic about the O's pitching in general, though the bullpen still worries me.
The offense should show some improvements just from the rookies maturing a bit but we do still need some help at the corners. Kouzmanoff would be fine with me at third, he has to be better than Mora was last year. That might be enough to push us over the magic .500 threshold. So far so good, I'll be awaiting Spring Training even more than usual this year.

Are there any Wiggy fans out there that think he can hold down the fort at 3rd this year?
He's a gamer. He plays hard and plays hurt. He can move around the infield if Bell is ready for some at bats after the Break. Am I crazy to think that we have someone in house that can hit 6th in the line up with 20+ HR power, a .270 BA with an .800 OPS?

ken -

Not sure how a steady diet of Sabathia, Pettitte, Beckett and Lester is much different from a steady diet of Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Dan Haren, Chad Billingsley and Ubaldo Jimenez.

And Kouz has a .970 OPS in 24 ABs vs. Haren and a .816 OPS in 35 ABs vs Lincecum.

I say, go get Chad Tracy and LaRoche. Give Wigginton and Aubrey the chance, LaRoche can certainly play 1st and hit enough. Tracy can play LF, RF, 3B, and 1B, and he has a penchant for timely hitting at a not-too-high of a salary.

I've watched Tracy for a few years here in the heat, he's a good option.

Wayne,

You tend to be brutally frank and your style creates a disturbance in the force for the true believers, thus it makes them uncomfortable. Let me take your post, parse it and reassemble it in a fashion that will not upset them..

"Does everyone realize how bad this team will be next year? Do you really understand?"

I'm not very hopeful for our chances of significant imoprovement next year. I think many will be disapponted when reality sets in.

"Millwood, Guthrie and a bunch of inexperienced starters{who will likely struggle like young pitchers do}No closers, no corners until they get someone who won't even make the news on ESPN's insdide Baseball"

Although adding Millwood to the rotation should help, there are many questionmarks especially with the younger pitchers. I hope sincerely that Andy Macphail is able to upgrade at 1st and 3rd, and in the bullpen before opening day.

"I'll pay for my season tix like always, but only because I am a moron"

I will continue to support the team financially however I am concerned for the return on my investment based on the roster as it stands.

"Does anyone really see what's happening though?"

I think many of the fans are reacting out of loyalty and not out of logic.

"WAKE UP"

I would only ask that each and every fan take a pragmatic view of our chances next year in the American League East. I think you would agree that it will be difficult for the Orioles to play .500 Baseball in 2010.

Gil. Tiger Woods needs to hire you as his new publicist.

"I think many of the fans are reacting out of loyalty and not out of logic."

That may be true for some, but it's the exact opposite for me.

For all intents and purposes, I gave up on this team sometime in 1999. Yes, I still called myself an Oriole fan, but I was an A's fan first. In the A's, I saw a young organization with a good leader building a team around solid young pitching. In the O's, I saw a directionless team trying to please fans with token free agent additions and quick fixes.

I still paid a bit of attention to the Orioles, especially the emergence of Brian Roberts and Nick Markakis and the magical first half in 2005. Like any other rational fan, I knew that 2005 was a mirage.

But then came 2007. With the hiring of Andy MacPhail and the Bedard and Tejada, this organization made a rapid u-turn and proved to have direction for the first time in a decade.

And that direction is there and the hope is there. Sure, Kevin Millwood isn't going to turn this team around. But acquiring a veteran starter to take the burden off Guthrie and to teach Bergesen, Matusz and Tillman is a huge first step. In truth, I'm more excited about Millwood because of how his presence will impact the young guys than I am about what numbers he may put up.

Also, I'm hoping that Millwood is just the start of several solid acquisitions. With that in mind, there's no reason to get pissed at people for having a bit of hope for the winter. Sure, nothing else may happen, but, at this point, it looks like Andy's going to be proactive. And that's something to get excited about.

the orioles absolutely need a power hitter in their lineup capable of 35-40 home runs. miguel cabrera definitely fits that, and it seems like the tigers are willing to trade their guys for prospects, which the orioles have a lot of. trade a couple of young pitchers(arrieta and erbe), pie, and snyder, and they might be close to a deal. the tigers will probably want more, so give them more! throw in a guy like britton. it would be a good chance for the tigers to get back what they gave up for cabrera and willis a couple years ago. guys who can hit for a combination of great power and a high average don't come around every day. so andy, instead of heading home, head to detroit and get a deal done for cabrera.

Perfect Gil, Thanks!

You'll see people. Just disrespectfully continue to do your O during the Star Spangled Banner and prepare yourself each night for another likely loss..... followed by the usual 'but we're on the right track' garbage that most of you continue to shout out.....

Of course AM's heading home. He knows the O's faithful buy into his Millwood deal... a deal that didn't even make it onto Baseball Tonight. Lol!

Losers!

Gil,

I'm not expecting a World Series win, or even the playoffs this year. What I do look for from year to year is improvement in the club.

Given that our farm system is much improved from the wasteland that it was only 5 years ago, and given that those youngsters are starting to come up and pay off, I like the direction this team is headed in.

I don't need to support a World Series winner to validate myself. I love baseball. I love the game. I love the day to day drama it brings. All I need is a team to love and a bunch of guys who go out and play hard. I don't need the validation of the team from national media, because I know that I've paid much more attention to what's going on from day to day and year to year than they have. I've seen where we've been, where we are, and the direction we're going in.

Complaining about how the team will perform the day the winter meetings end is useless. The team has not even taken complete shape yet. It is more constructive to discuss possibilities than to gripe about the future before it even happens.

hey Wayne.
Take your bitterness somewhere else. First of all it's only the middle of December--Plenty of time to acquire what we need. Second, have some faith. We all know the Orioles are lacking big-time talent, but the young guys we have are doing their best and may actually surprise. Leave the bad attitude for the middle or end of the season if it's called for.

Troy Glaus, please.

Non Brooksie,

I am old enough to have watched Paul Richards and Andy Macphail's grandfather build a team on pitching and defense in the 50's. But that was a different era, and the reserve clause helped ensure that a team could hold on to home grown talent and develop mainly from within.

In my opinion Andy Macphail is being far too deliberate. He ruled out up front even making offers to the top talent on the market this year. His style does not reflect a sense of urgency. I said a few years ago that he was doing all the right things then. But the 50's are gone and the Orioles are going to have to spend serious money to get better sooner. That's just the way the system works now.

The Orioles have big holes to fill and Macphail neds to get busy and fill them. He still has time, but as each day goes by the available talent will settle somewhere else. Millwood will help but he needs to add 3 or 4 more proven major league players before opening day.

But that's me, and as I always say it is just my opinion and I don't claim to be right. I have read your posts and you always make a lot of sense.

Thanks Gil, but by now most of us have been around long enough to be all too fluent in moron. It is bad enough he is a self professed moron but to then prove his case beyond all doubt by admitting he judges the Millwood trade by it appearance or lack thereof on baseball tonight is just too sad for words.

Why cant the team ever just do something positive without it being spun into something negative. The Millwood trade can be a good trade whether it vaults us into first place or not. But morons, self professed or not, like your "client" cannot just be objective. They have smash all things good in their obsession with the negative. They have to twist the good into something bad. These are despicable people whose only happiness comes from ruining others' happiness. Very sad.

Chris in Hawaii,

This is a blog Chris, and people express their opinions freely,and some, such as Wayne, in the form of a stream of consciousness. He has as much right to his opinion as do you, me or anyone for that matter. Stop questioning everone's fan bonafides just because they say something you do not agree with.

People would not be posting on this blog if they did not care about the team. You are a loyal fan, Ok we know that. So am I, so is Wayne and look up and down the threads, so is everybody else.

I think wayne is confusing "optimism" with "thinking the O's will win the East"

I'm optimistic, which means I see the O's finally breaking their sub-.500 streak (though not by much) and putting themselves in position to compete in 2011.

Millwood will provide valuable instruction and as has been stated, Guthrie should be better when not bearing the load of an "ace". As well, as Trembley pointed out, Millwood is a guy who will likely make sure we don't have any 5+ game losing streaks. He can stop the bleeding during tough times.

And who knows...with the way Bergeson pitched last year, if all the young pitchers click and everyone does what they're supposed to, this team could mimic the 2008 Rays, but that's thinking VERY wishfully.

The bottom line is that "optimism" is relative to each team, and for the O's, this marks a huge improvement.

Gil,

Please don't mollycoddle Wayne. It's not your reasoned skepticism that anyone takes issue with, it's the vitriolic spew of Wayne's World that is just, I don't know, annoying.

I will say that I think you and your fellow critics think MLB operates like a fantasy league. You piece together some dream scenario at your PC, then scream than Andy needs to get it done.

Do you really think that trading Ray for Millwood at the Winter Meetings was a bad thing for the team? How about the Bedard trade? Do you really believe that the team is actually worse than it was when he took over? Seriously man, you seem like a sensible guy, I don't know how you can argue it.

You guys love to belittle those of us who believe the team is moving forward as irrational cheerleaders. I think the only reasonable conclusion is that you and your more emotional, less eloquent compadres are the irrational ones, whose frustration over the past ten plus years blinds you to the plain fact that the present and future are brighter than they've been for a long time.

So lighten up and enjoy it for goodness sake!

I don't see why everybody who speculates on Kousmanoff seems to think he'd be automatically expendable "once Bell gets here." Maybe Bell will turn out to be something less than a sure-fire superstar, or maybe Kousmanoff will turn up his already-nice game a notch. We may end up with the luxury of looking hard at which man can give us the best production, or which can get the most value in a trade. It's been so rare that the O's have had two legitimate big-league players at one position, maybe some of the fans forget what that's like. It may not happen, but don't write off the possibility just yet!

Aloha Chris,

Thanks for your posts. Not sure I see you questioning anyone's fan bona fides, just expressing exasperated disdain for Wayne's "steam of consciouness."

Great line Horseshoe, "fluent in moron." How true. I love Gil's "here's what he meant to say."

Allow me to continue Gil's exercise:

"Losers!"

I respectfully submit that those of you with whom I disagree have overlooked several important weaknesses in Mr. MacPhail's rebuilding program. As a result, you are physically unattractive and your mother dresses you in humerous attire.

Wayne said, "I'm a moron."

For the first and likely only time in my life, I'm in complete agreement with you.

Wow,

Do most of you have your own section at the Yard? You can do that now ya know....now that so few go to games anymore.

You can get your own 'i bleed orange and black' section.

Or, you can call it the 'in andy we trust' section.

How about 'we're on the right track' or 'it was never about this year' section.

You can maybe call it the 'we're lucky to even have a team' section.

Whichever it is, you can all talk to each other about how a 70 game win pace is right in the pocket of the PLAN. There you go.... Call it 'The Plan' section.

I'll be 5 rows from the field, in my usual seat, along with all the other tired of losing season tix holders around me. The good news is that your spcialized sections will at least give us something differant to talk about.

'It's ok to always lose' section.... There ya go. That actually fits best for most of you.

After our top 4 starters last year (Guthrie, Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez), our fifth-starter combo was Rich Hill, with help from Uehara, Hendrickson, Eaton, Tillman, Matusz, Waters, and Simon. Let's see the hands of those who think Millwood will NOT improve this group.

Wayne, you're hilarious.

'How about the 'millwod had an above 5.00 era in 07 and 08 but he's our new ace' section?

WHat about 'We have no power hitters, no 3rd baseman, no 1st baseman, no closer, but that's ok' section?

Or, 'we don't need to beat the yankee's, but how about oakland or detroit' section?

You support the O's wayne. You have a right to your opinion. Most on here have no clue what winning really is, so don't let them bother you.

Keep it coming. You're one of the only real competitors blogging.

The war of words between wayne/Gil and more positive fans continues! Whoooo!!!! Always enjoyable to read. I have to say that in this particular thread, the positive fans are winning. Wayne comes off as a jerk, and Gil appears overly defensive after attempting to defend him. Better luck next time guys! I know you'll do better in the future. I'll be reading.

Wayne:

I don't know whether you are a moron or not, although incessant repetition of broken record statements are likely a clue.

What there is no doubt about is that you're most certainly a masochist. Who else would continue to come on here and even buy seasons tickets given your attitude.

That is truely sick. Get help.

Wow, Wayne sits five rows from the field and has season tickets.

Where? I need to know because when I buy my Andy is Always Right row I don't want to buy behind you because your black cloud will get in the way of me watching Tillman, Matusz, Bergesen, Wieters, Jones and Markakis play.

You know what though, it actually might be fun to sit behind you and give you wet willies during the game. At least I could shout "OH" really, really loud when I was there and watch your face get red with rage. That would make it fun even if the Birds are losing, LIKE THEY ALWAYS WILL, RIGHT WAYNE??

So, where do you sit?

I've happened to come across the list of 12 teams Kevin Millwood wouldn't play for. They are:

The Cleveland Browns
Al Qeada
The Bad News Bears
The Women Who've Slept With Tiger Woods
The Action News Team
The New Jersey Nets
The London Sissynannies
The 1983 Baltimore Colts
The 1980 Soviet Hockey Team
The Swedish Bikini Team
The A Team
The Moldovan Army

Luckily, the Orioles were no. 13.

wayne, Gil, rob & others -

Why don't you do everyone a favor and lay out what your plans for this team would be if you were running it? What moves you would make that would be good for the team's present and future?

You could do that, and then there would be actual discussion of the team on this board instead of people calling each other names. As it stands, what you are doing by dismissing the team and those with an optimistic outlook as "losers," is no more than the bully in elementary school yelling at people in the schoolyard.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and everyone is entitled to express their opinions, but if you're not adding to constructive discussion of the team... what's the point?

"'It's ok to always lose' section.... There ya go. That actually fits best for most of you."

See, this is the kind of crap that gets to me.

Since mid-2007, this team has had direction for the first time since the mid '90's.

This team hasn't had a winning season since 1997. We just finished the 2009 season. From the winter of 1997-98 until the summer of 2007, the Orioles were nothing. They had no direction. No plan. No nothing.

And now, finally, there's something to be excited about and the people who are excited are pegged as people who are "okay with losing". It doesn't even make any sense.

Good stuff, fun to read

I think there will be a lot more tweaking, but it behooves AM to go slow and let the market play out, right?. Recall last year the Angels signed Abreu for 5 Mill just before spring training.

I think there will be at least one veteran bopper added - i have my personal preferences as does everyone here , and if it turns out to be Delgado or Tejada i'd be pleased. Who knows, maybe Glaus will surprise me.

Regardless, i'd feel a lot better if it was someone else making out the lineup.

Unfortunately, this has been the best time of year to be an Oriole fanatic for far too long

Ravenczar- I must wholeheartedly disagree with you in that Kevin Millwood had the "A-Team" and the "Swedish Bikini Team" on his list. What self respecting man would not want to be on the run with Face, Murdock, Hannibal and Bad Attitude Baracus from the military for crimes they did not commit? Swedish Bikini Team? Sign me up for a winless season!

Please go back to your Federally appointed Czar position and well paid team of dozens of advisers who operate under no oversight and come up with two more hilarious teams... that was pretty good.

I suggest:
2008 Detroit Lions
Soviet Army at Leningrad
Wildcard:
2007 New England Imperfatriots

Wayne- you are right. The O's should pull a Bruce McNall and physically buy their roster off other teams and sign every free agent on two feet. Angelos is sitting on Billions of Cash right?

A Gonzales? Wire $75mil to the Padres for his rights and lock him up long term 6 years/$200mil

Tex? Kidnap him from the Yankees, give him a new number, fake mustache and stick him on 1st.

Lackey? 3 years/$125mil

Chapman? 5 years/$95mil, not to pitch, but to expertly craft our WS victory Cuban Cigars.

Bedard/Sheets- sign them and invest $6mil to engineer their functioning body parts to create a 25 game winner with 250k's and a 2.01 ERA

Fielder? trade the Frederick Keys, Bowie Baysox, and those losers Tillman and Matusz for his rights and sign him to 7 years/$310mil and a $50mil sponsorship deal for Medifast.

Glaus/Beltre? Get'em both to platoon third. Sprinkle on some former AL ROY Eric Hinske just in case.

Angelos? Dump him and bring in renowned personal injury attorney Barry Glazer.

Ravens? Get together with Jerry Jones to get Roger Goodell drunk and have him sign paperwork revoking the salary cap. Then sign Marshall, Boldin at WR, Namndi at CB, and the other guys the Ravens lost because they sure miss Bart Scott and Leonard getting burned by the Wildcat.

Any better suggestions? Or do you want to just keep b*tching?

not brooks;

What you're watching is a nasty pathology playing itself out. How else would you describe someone, as an example, who absolutely hated opera, but who kept going back again and again so the fat lady can aggrevate them to no end.

It's the same thing with Wayne being incessantly negative yet lining up to buy seasons tickets so he can torture himself a little more. It's a mental illness of sorts, related to masochism I suspect.

Great banter today. Enjoyable.
My 2 cents are that everything Wayne hates about going to the O's games, are my favorite parts. "YMCA", yelling "OH", doin' the wave, the Belushi skit for a 9th inning rally, "Country Boy", and "Charge!" But I bet he stands and cries during God Bless America. And that's Okay! He's loyal and roots for his O's in his own way and puts his wallet where his mouth is. I must admit I am much more fair weather than he or many or you. I sit in the outfield only about 5 times a season.

But this is the time to get excited. And I like to root for the guys like MIchael Aubrey and Lou Montanez. The signing of Pedro Feliz today by Houston made me so happy. If any of you guys have any pull with AM... No overpriced, replacement level veterans who block our prospects!

Wayne, you've hit the nail on the head (sorry, you guys who think that Millwood is going to add 10 wins to the O's record next year. Won't happen. As the #1 he'll be facing Sabbathia, Holiday, etc. on the other team's staff and will be lucky to lose just 5 more than he wins.) Andy McTurtle told us that the purse strings have been loosened to the point of being able to sign a staff-leading pitcher, a power-hitting first baseman AND a power-hitting third basemen. What the O's wound up with is a mid-level pitcher who the O's hope will eat up innings, the lesser of all the pitchers that Jeff and Pete posted on the back page on Monday. Now, without even a strong rumor that a trade for one of the others MIGHT be in the offing, Jackson, Soriana, Arroyo and Vasquez have been taken out of the picture. So, we're done with pitchers, right Pete. At least, today you said that McTurtle might be done with the rotation. Then, in the next paragraph, McT was quoted as saying, "We're still in the pitching business... Now we have some latitude to take a flyer." Which is it, one and I'm done or we may take a FLYER on a reliever?

jayceeO's:

Your first statement about Millwood facing all the other team's aces shows you don't know much about baseball.

On opening day, the first start after the All Star game, and any playoff series, that is most certainly true, but from then on due to different days off for each team and other assorted reasons, Millwood is as likely to face the Yankees 5th starter as he is to face their ace.

Oftentimes I read the complaint that good players don't want to come to a last plave club. Don't remember Pudge going from the Rangers to the last place Tigers or Pena going to the last place Rays. Didn't take long for those two clubs to move up to first place in their divisions. All it takes is cash and a promise that the club will do ALL it can to improve. Oh, maybe those two things are absent here in Birdland. If Andy McT signs ONE REAL power-hiyying 1B this year and ONE REAL power-hitting 3B next year I'll be one surprised guy. Showing other free agents that you're willing to spend money will convince them to join the party. I admit that the O's have MAYBE the makings of two-thirds of a quality pirching staff on the 40-man roster and 2/3rds of an exellent outfield along with a short term quality 2B and a promising? catcher. So far, over the past three years the O's have plugged in a new RF, then a new CF, a LF who HAS promise and a C who has promise. Sooner or later one new addition is going to fail to live up to his promise. Bell?, Hernandez?, Bergeson? or even Weiters/Reimold. And if "The Crow" can't teach Jones to layoff of that curve far outside then his days as an All Star are over. Curtis Granderson, now wouldn't he have filled a spot in the outfield as well as that power hitter McT is hoping will drop out of the sky into his lap. Wou;dm\n't Granderson have been worth Reimold and Guthrie with a minor leaguer thrown in.
I can't believe that McT went home today SATISFIED with his work during the Winter Meetings. If so, he's got his work cut out for him if he's going to land a power-hitting 1b AND 3B. That's going to necessitate some trading, something McT avoids with a passion. Trade some of the ten+ pitchers he's acquirred in the past three years? Littl;e to no chance.
That leaves Scott, Reimold, Wiggington Pie (although McT loves thast guy) and some minor league position players. The O's should get two QUALITY players for them.
By the way, did anyone else notice the activity of the Rays and Blue Jays? And the Blue Jays aren't through trading (Holiday?). By opening day the O's should have a solid grip on last place, at least in the AL. East if not in all of baseball. Its a LOCK!

Hey Chris in Hawaii,

I have never called anyone a name or belittled their opinion, and you can go back since this blog was written. I just give mine and rebut yours. I do not get personal, as many do. I stay on the subject. Many find that hard to do.

I have posted endlessly that Macphail got off to a good start but is now wasting time and he needs to add legitimate major league talent from the outside in order for the Orioles to start winning. Not in 2011, 0r 2012, but next year. He has run out of the goodwill to say"Come next Spring". Winning is the only thing that matters. The owner of this blog shares the same general opinion, if you read what he writes.

I appreciate everyone's opinion and I have said so many times, including yours.

The Orioles are in a position to acquire major league talent now so that they can compete NOW, and there is absolutely no reason not to do so.

Macphail himself even said today what I have been saying all along. "Prospects are just that. We don't expect them all to make it"

So then, go get some players who have proven that they can play this game, and add them to the prospects. And play to win in 2010. Not the pennant, but win respectabiltiy and get out of last place.

jaycee and others: I'm not looking for Millwood to "add 10 wins" next year. We used 11 starters in 09, I believe, and only 2 had over 20 starts and only 1 had over 125 innings, so nobody in the front end of the bullpen had any idea of his role week to week and we used at least 27 pitchers total, 15 for under 50 innings each. Chaos. I expect Millwood to make 30 starts and 200 innings, and be a huge factor in the O's using maybe 8 starters and 22 pitchers for the year. That would be a tremendous necessary step towards winning more games, even though I don't expect all the other steps to be there yet. Yeah, I'd like to get Sabathia and Pujols, too, but I'm not whining about it.

bob c: Sorry Bob but the lack of knowledge is in your court, to bring another sport into this. ALL of last year Guthrie met most of the other team's #1. If you read today's (Thurs.) paper, Pete mentioned that Guthrie wilted as a #1, too much responsibility for him. How can you wilt under the pressure of being #1 if you don't have to face the other teams' #1. Facing #2's, or 3's or even 4's should be a lock for a team's ace. No, Bob, #1's face #1's more often than not. You can look it up!

bob c: Just to cover my rear end, maybe the other teams won't juggle their rotation somewhat to have their #1 face a 35 year-old middle-of-the-pack starter like Millwood next year. The Yankees might line Pettit up against him instead and the Red Sox might throw their 3rd or 4th pitcher against him, just to save #1 for another day. Wouldn't be taking too much of a chance now, would they?

jayceeO's;

A few points about your post.
1/ Who is Andy McT. Don't know anyone by that name.
2/ How do you know that Reimold, Guthrie and a minor leaguer would have been acceptable to the other GM for Granderson.
3/ AM avoids making trades "with a passion". Good grief man. Get a grip on yourself.
4/ The Jays have made major moves to upgrade themselves? Huh!!! Is this recent breaking news, because so far up here in the Great White North, all we've heard of is the Jays grabbing Joey Gathright. Joey is a major upgrade? I don't think even his mother believes that.

Mark my words you blind oriole fans this will be the worst team in the last two decades of bad orioles teams.

Gil,

Sorry, the thing about personal attacks was meant more for wayne, who has a propensity to call everyone losers and such.

I like that you layed out some ideas, but I tend to be more interested in specifics. What major league talent would you like to bring in? Who would you be willing to give up for them? Would the other team be interested in making this trade?

Right now, there isn't anything great on the FA market for 1B or 3B, so trades are the only way bringing in someone for those positions are gonna happen.

I don't think that anyone here wouldn't love to have a great fielding 1B with tons of pop. Everyone would love to have Roy Halladay on their team. But you have to consider the state of the team and its farm as a whole. And you have to consider what that move means for the long run of the team.

Basically, what I'm saying is, it's easy to sit back and say, "Hey go get us that big corner infield bat!" without considering the consequences of obtaining or even the availability of such a player. It's far more interesting to debate the possibility of a transaction in specifics and far more constructive as well.

jayceeO's:

I took a look at who Guthrie faced last year from his first start in April through to the end of May. By my count he faced just three aces in 11 combined starts, Sabathia twice and Verlander once.

Other than that, he faced;
TBay Niemann
Bos Penny
WS Danks
Tex Harrison
Tor Richmond
KC Meche
NY Hughes
Tor Tallett

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't another ace among the lot of them. That means that Guthrie faced the other team's ace about 25% of the time. I could carry this through to the end of the season if you like but I guarantee you that the results are going to be very close to the same.

Have a look for yourself if you like, but trust me and save yourself a lot of useless effort. An ace doesn't face the other teams ace very often. that's just the way it is.

To jaycee:
Re: "Oftentimes I read the complaint that good players don't want to come to a last plave club. Don't remember Pudge going from the Rangers to the last place Tigers or Pena going to the last place Rays. Didn't take long for those two clubs to move up to first place in their divisions. All it takes is cash and a promise that the club will do ALL it can to improve. Oh, maybe those two things are absent here in Birdland. If Andy McT signs ONE REAL power-hiyying 1B this year...

You're not getting it and I'm not sure you gonna. Gil and LuckyHorseshoe get it.
Re-read some their posts and opinions.

Who in their right mind would want to put Granderson in the current O's outfield? Upside on Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Pie, and even Montanez is very very good. The OF is not an issue.

Hi Chris in Hawaii,

I think the Orioles should go after pitching, pitching, and more pitching. In other words, I would like to see them sign at least one more proven starter, and my favorite is John Garland. They need to go into the season with at least 2 or 3 proven starters and then see who steps up as far as the young pitchers. They would not have to block anybody, some of these kids could pitch middle relief like the Orioles used to develop them.

I think the Oriles are actually OK at first base for now. The real sleeper that no one talks about is Rhyne Hughes, acquired in a trade, who hit 25 home runs between AA and AAA last year. He is lefthanded all the way and is 26 years old. The only rap on Hughes is that he seems to be always a level behind the level he is promoted to but reports say he is a smooth fielder with big time power. In addition to Michael Aubrey, and Brandon Snyder in the wings, the Orioles could pick up Nick Johnson for now, but I don't think that is as big a need as another starting pitcher and bullpen help. The Orioles need a closer and they may have to trade for one and they need at least another proven middle reliever.

Third base is a problem. Ty Wiggenton is a brutal fielder and is not very selective at the plate. I would go after Beltre and it might cost a Chris Tillman but you have to give up something to get something. If not Beltre the kid from san diego would fill the position nicely.

I said on another thread that I got to see Brandon Waring play a few games at Bowie toward the end of the year and I think he has more upside than Josh Bell.

Waring reminds me of Tony Conigliaro both in physical appearance and plate approach. He really turns on the ball and has a strong arm. I think he will end up at first base, although he has good hands and a good arm at third.

So, in my opinion, the next priority should be another starter, a closer, a third baseman, and a middle reliever.

A little civility is a glorious thing. Seriously folks, we've all lived through the years of losing and we all wish the best for this team.

That said, let's all agree (maybe?) that miracles are called that for a reason (not too likely), and that our young talent might play a bit better this year than last year, but won't fundamentally be very different. So, perhaps, like jaycee, we should face truths, one of which, in my view, is that what happens now, in the off-season, will determine what happens during the season.

The addition of Millwood is welcome. He will strengthen the starting rotation. To me he looks like a good #4 starter, with Matusz and Bergeson occupying the #2 and #3 slots.
That still leaves us two pitchers short. If the GM goes out and gets Bedard or someone of equivalent quality, well and good. I don't think Guthrie should start at all (he should be traded while he still has some value) and was less impressed by Tillman last year than some other people.

Then there's the hitting. As I and others have said, the team MUST find a way of scoring more runs, especially in clutch situations, and especially against left-handers. To me this says that the addition of two big right-handed bats is crucial.

So, one more legitimate starter and two major bats are the minimum that MacPhail needs to come up with. I don't agree that top players won't come here. With enough will, smarts, and money, a lot might become possible. For once the Orioles have cash in hand and players available to trade (I think that only Matusz, Bergeson and Wieters should be off-limits, no one else). MacPhail has a lot to do and not much time in which to do it. His phlegmatic statements and his complacent return to Baltimore from the winter meetings aren't good signs. More action at a quicker pace would be welcome.

wat about mike jacobs for 1st royals just released him

Wowowowowow,

Hey FS (andy lover). All those players you mentioned - Andy was responsible for them all......really?

As for telling you where I sit... Nah! No point as the ushers wouldn't allow you down anyway.

And if you did get down to where we are and you did in fact shout 'O', you'd be beaten down so bad by those around me, you'd go running like a little girl.

You see - we respect the song. We realize that kids are dying every day for their country, and while it's your right to blemish a song about our country, we also have the right to show you how we feel about persons like ourself.

I just hate losing everyone. The team lost 64 games in 09' and have more holes than ever. AM did this in Chicago. It was always about 'next year'. Next year came 9 years later, only when they augmented young talent with quality free agents. By then though, his time was running out.....

He is perfect for this organization and is only doing what the Angelos family dictates. And guess what? PA and sons have you all (most of you anyway) right here they want you.

Suckers!

Wayne;

This sentence from your 11:55 post is demonstrably silly. "The team lost 64 games in 09' and have more holes than ever."

Since two years ago, we've replaced Cory Patterson with Adam Jones, Jay Payton with Reimold, Hernandez with Weiters and and Gibbons with Scott. That's 4 major upgrades. We gave up Miggy's bat and awful defence for a no hit great glove guy. Call that a saw off. Roberts and Markakis remain.

We still have first and third to take care of, but if all AM did this offseason was resign Mora and Millar, we'd have a much better group of position players than the 07 team did, with two or three kids with the potential to be real stars. If we sign anyone better than that, we'll be that much better still.

Comparing the starting staffs, 07 was arguably better in the first two spots with Bedard and Guthrie as compared to Millwood and Guthrie. From the three through five spots though is no comparison.

In 07 we had Cabrera, Trachsel and Burres as compared to Bergeren, Matusz and Tillman now. For the starting staff this year to end up as bad as the 07 unit, all three of them will have to flame out. If only one of them does well, we'll have a better staff than back then. If two of them work out it will be hugely better.

While it is fair enough for you to complain about the speed of AM's rebuilding effort, your sentence above shows a guy who simply refuses to see anything positive.

Suit yourself, but if I felt even remotely close to how you feel about the Os, I wouldn't think, talk or write about them. I sure wouldn't pay money to go see them. I'd take up a hobby or play a computer game or something. I sure can't picture myself walking back in the proverbial door here everyday just to bang my head on the wall some more. To each their own I guess.

Gil. I agree that pitching is key so why surrender Tillman, who is supposed to be a future star and was one the of key pieces in the Bedard deal?
I know you have to give something to get something but isn't Beltre a free agent right now? Even so, I 'm not sure he's worth trading for and/or paying 10 mill/yr as he's only really had one big year.
Adrian Gonzalez is a better fit but I don't think San Diego will trade him because he's one the hometown heroes, kind of like Markakis is.

Uggla. No. Go get more pitching. Pitching is what the O's need. Kouzmanoff would be a nice addition, but pitching, pitching, pitching.

Did I say pitching.

Gil. Terry's correct. Trading for Beltre is not a possibility b/c Beltre is a free agent about to sign with Boston. Unless you want AM to trade a top pitching prospect to Boston for a player they will sign today, I think you should rethink that one. I do agree with you on the pitching. No one seems to be blowing Lackey away with an offer. He wants to play for Philly and Philly seems to want to make the Halladay trade instead. What would it take to grqb Lackey? 5years/90mill? Add Bedard for 1year/5mill plus incentives plus a team option for next. And I'd like to see Koji earn his $5mill as our closer. He closed in the WBC, didn't he?

WOW. There is some intense hatred right now. Okay well it sounds like Wayne in a POS and I'll beat the O's hatred out of you and eat your children and ear like Mike Tyson if you don't stop being such a skirt.

Moving on. If the M's can get some heat going involving rumors of trading for A-Gon then there is no reason to believe that the O's cannot put a package together to get him. Part with Tillman and Snyder etc. and whoever it takes within reason.

When I think "Wayne," images of things like screwdrivers, hammers and drills pop into my mind. It just happens, I can't explain it...

Wayne, that's too good, I was one of those soldiers, so you (and of course those around you) can bring it princess. Little girls like you puff out your chest over silly things like cheers during an anthem, others put one foot in front of the other and make things happen. Thank goodness our GM is not some kind of paper tiger-- or worse keyboard tiger-- like you. One foot in front of the other, one trade after another, one signing after another, the O's are marching in the right direction. That's how you build a winner anywhere Wanda.

Negative Nancy, I'll send a hot dog back four rows to your Daddy's seats next season. You'll be easy to spot, loud mouth and baby soft hands. I certainly won't look for you here because when the Hot Stove League turns to the Major League, you'll be posting as "Number One Fan."

Bob C,

It's about winning....not comparing today's roster to 07'.

You or I could literally patch together a squad today that's better than 07 and prior. That's not the point.

It is, and should be about winning, period!

Fact is, this lineup has no power. Not one player to even remotely pitch around. Yes, they have some good players, but no one that comes close to scaring anyone.

And the pitching? Please look at Millwoods 07', 08' stats. Combine that with Guthrie (who stunk it up last year) with a bunch of unproven youngsters, and you have a staff that is set up for another 2nd half collapse.
Add to it, another ridiculous pen with NO closer, and you've got the 10' Orioles.

Oh sure, AM will throw in a few new pieces here and there. After all, he does have to field a team. That's what's so scary though!

So go ahead and compare things to 07 all you want. Doing so simply makes my point of how LOW the bar has been set in this town.

And FS...... yell 'O' all you want. It suits you well.

TerryP, Jesse,

I know Mcphail has already ruled out Beltre but he would give us the righthanded power bat and good defense at third. Bedard might be a good pickup, but Labrum surgery can be a career ender so it might be risky, even though cheap. I do think the orioles need another proven starter. I think Garland is a real possibiltiy. I would love to get lackey or Halliday, but if we can get Graland and a closer and the big right handed bat I'll be happy.

Wayne,

What is the matter and why are you so mean? I try to defend you on the blog and then you basically come out in the next post and tell everybody to go to hell.

We all want to win, don't we?

Gil. I agree that we need a right handed bat and maybe we should talk trade with the Tigers to see what it would take to get Miguel Cabrera. Think of the numbers he would put up at OPACY! Detroit seems to be unloading payroll and perhaps it would be worth it to give up a bona-fide pitcher and a few players like Scott/Pie and even give them cash..
I like the Millwood move but with Guthrie, I think the staff has enough veteran presence. It's time to see what Tillman, Matusz and Bergeson can do. Spend the $$$ on a hitter rather than Lackey and stay away from mediocre starters like Garland. He could very well be last year's Adam Eaton!

TerryP

Speaking of Bergensen, has anyone heard about the status of his shin? he certainly was impressive last year.

I don't know what Cabrerra makes but I think Pete wrote some time back that he didn't think Angelos would be willing to shell out that much for him, but you are right, I think obtaining him would be tanamount to the Frank Robinson trade during the winter of 1965.

Gil:

With respect, I don't think Wayne wants to win. He is all about simply venting his spleen. As sad as that is to say, and difficult for a normal person to believe, there really are people like that running around, people who get some kind of perverse pleasure from continually wallowing in despair.

Seriously Gil, answer me honestly. Would not any sane person who thinks like Wayne have washed their hands of the Os and gone on to other more pleasant pursuits. That Wayne has not and continues to bang his head on the proverbial wall day, after day, after day speaks to the liklihood of mental problems.

Hey Gil,

Thanks for your ideas. Like some other people mentioned, Beltre is a FA, so you wouldn't need to trade for him. He is however, looking for a 4 year deal at $10 million a year. I don't think that's a good idea in the long run. And trading Tillman (despite his first season's ERA, he is very well respected as a future top of the rotation starter around the league) should be reserved for inclusion in a deal that is going to bring you a big 1B guy like A-Gone, Fielder or Cabrera. And those first two should only be obtained if you can guaranteed extend them to longer contracts.

I don't want Andy MacPhail to build a team that might win for a year or two, I want him to create a team that is gonna remain competitive for the long haul and return the respect that this franchise once had.

As for the Waring/Bell debate, you have to remember that Bell hits for better average, has a better OBP and slugging percentage and has been facing better competition than Waring. Also, he's two or three years younger, meaning his chances of improving are greater. Take a look at their stats from the Arizona League where they played on the same team. It should be noted that Bell lead the league in doubles and most people project him to gain power in the next couple of years, so those doubles may become home runs (not that he didn't hit 9 homers in 33 games at Bowie).

At 3B for this year, I like the idea of either Kousmanoff, Uggla or DeRosa (in that order). With Kouz, you know you'll get decent defense, but he might add a little pop too. With Uggla, you know he'll have pop (and good OB skills), but his D is a mystery since he hasn't played there since the minors. DeRosa would be a utility guy with pop, basically a step (or two or three) up from Wigginton. Of those three, only Uggla would satisfy the need for a number 4 hitter in the line-up.

The problem then becomes, who can you give up to get these guys, and what might the other team take? Both San Diego and Florida have expansive outfields, so a pitcher like Hernandez might intrigue them. Luke Scott is very trade-able as well, because he's an outfielder on a team with 4 younger (and in my estimation, more valuable) guys. He doesn't have much value as a DH unless he's hitting 30 or more HRs (which is why I think Uggla makes sense since he'd be valuable there once Bell comes up). To me, you could find an older veteran to fill that role (a Delgado or a Vlad), who would also bring more experience to the clubhouse and still supply the offense that Luke is providing. I think Steve Johnson would have been another attractive trade chip, but scratch that... A guy like Waring would have no value to San Diego, but might have a bit to Florida.

Wayne,

The comebacks people throw at you are enough to make 'real' people sick.

I know what you're saying though. I too want to win, and I too believe this year is shaping up as a total disaster.

Wayne is real people. He puts his money where his mouth is while many of you live in a make believe world of hope.

Real teams show real development. Anyone not seeing what wayne says about this team still having huge holes is either dumb or completely blind. Better yet, maybe there are a bunch of Oriole employee's who spend their days blogging in order to spin for the organization.

Everyone, the numbers are on Wayne's side. While you all come up with your wish list and dream lineups, as well as otherwise blogs of hope, Wayne talks the truth. Why? Because he has the facts to back up everything he says.

Nothing you say matters until they win. This organization has been so bad for so long, they have zero cred. Zero!

Keep it up Wayne! At least you speak the truth. Others just speak through their xxs.

I'm with you, the rest of the pieces to put together all have pluses and minuses. There are several ways to get what the Orioles need and It will be interesting to see what the lineup looks like on opening day. I still would prefer to have at least three proven major league starters, to cover injuries and inneffectiveness, but I think Macphail is going to go with what he has now and see who steps up as far as the young pitchers.

Back to Waring and Bell. I did see Bell play a little and he is quite an athlete. But wait until you get a look at Brandon Waring swing the bat. I saw him hit a ball to left center at Bowie that must have gone 450 feet. He has Dave Kingman type power and mechanics. Yes he is a little older but I think is going to be really good. He will start at AA but will probably be at Norfolk by July. If they make it to the Big Leagues they will both be capable of 25+ homerun power.

Chris, when it comes to statistics I think the are a little overdone these days. As Mark Twain said, there are liars, damn liars and statistics. I am not a big Billy Ball advocate

For starting pitchers I think the only two stats that matter are E.R.A and hits allowed per inning. If those numbers are in order everything else will take care of itself.

As far as hitting is concerned, batting average, RBI's, and depending on the type of hittter, OPB.

Some hidden statistics are hits with runners in scoring position. One stat I think that needs to be tracked is scoring a runner from third base with less than two outs.

Gil -

How's Waring's glove work?

I'll admit I've only seen Bell play, and I like what I see. Since I'm pretty far away, it's hard to go by much other than stats, play by play on the old computer and watching what I can on tv (which for the O's, ain't much out here. Waring, to me, seems like he could be a Mark Reynolds type player, which isn't bad at all. He strikes out a lot, but to me, at least strike outs aren't double plays. I think his power can carry him to the bigs as long as he can make contact. If he could learn to be a little more selective and walk more, he'd be a lot more dangerous. Either way, I like having two promising guys at 3B in the farm when going into last year's winter meetings, we had none.

And I wouldn't mind seeing Aubrey/Hughes or Snyder (who could probably use some more AAA seasoning, though I like what he did in Arizona) start the season in Baltimore at 1B. I like Aubrey's defense and I think you can give up a little power at one of the corners for now if you plan on getting plus power at the catching position from Wieters.

RBI are kind of a weird stat to me, just because they're hard to get unless someone is on base in front of you. I think looking at average with runners on gives a better idea of how hitters are adjusting to pitchers adjustments... if that makes sense.

And you're right about scoring guys from 3rd. I'd even like to see some stats regarding getting the run in with a guy on 2nd and no outs.

Not Brooks,

I only got to see him play four or five games at Bowie, two were at third base and the rest were at first. He did make one error at third on a ball he got caught in between. I don't think he would make anybody forget Brooks Robinson but he made several other routine plays and has a strong arm. He did seem more at home at First base and is a big target and plays the bag well. He made one really nice play going to his right backhanding the ball and forcing the runner at second.

He has only 3 years minor league experience since coming out of wofford College and has hit 67 Home runs. he will be 24 in January. He is going to strike out a lot as Chris in Hawaii said because he has a long swing, but I think he could be quite a force if he keeps progressing.

Gil. Haven't heard anything lately re: Bergeson but hopefully, he's on the mend because he may turn out to be a solid starter.
We both agree that Miguel Cabrera would be a good fit and it's not far-fetched to think Detroit would let me go if the price is right. They have already dumped salary and then there's the black cloud from last year's ill-timed end of the year drinking spree.
The O's can easily afford his price tag because they were willing to pay 20 mill/yr for Tex and we've shed ourselves of the Huff/Mora contracts.
Time to pony up King Peter!