I'm not surprised that matusz is rated #1. I think this guy is special. Ditto for Bell and Arietta being rated highly. Britton rated #3. Hmmm.

It seems too soon to rate Hobgood or Givens. I find it very encouraging to see Bell at #2.

As a great exec once said.... 'Show me an organization with multiple (prospects) and I'll show you an organization who's losing in the show'.

Nice list Pete, but I'll take a proven stud at 1B while losing a couple of these 'prospects' (who may or may not pan out) any day. That would show real improvement....instead of always talking about the future.

Interesting. But you know what would be more interesting? If all the names people talk about ever translated into a winning record. So, because these guys are so young, are we talking about an impact in 2013? Can we trade any of these so called studs for proven stars? Don't other winning teams do that? Or is it possible we want nothing but young players and prospects so that the payroll remains as low as possible? Just asking

Wayne,

I feel your frustration.

At the same age as Bell and Snyder, Longoria was already a stud in the majors. Now that's a prospect.

It's not like these two are 21. Markakis was up and performing at their age as well. If they're what people say, bring em up. I mean what does this sad team have to lose?

If they're not going to sign proven corners, just bring these guys up. I mean everyone would rather see Atkins or Wiggy?

wayne:

I googled the quote that you say came from a "great exec" and not one hit came up. Who is the exec.

Flight delayed?

May your trip go better than that documented in Planes, Trains & Automobiles.

Forget Holliday.... trade for Adrian Gonzalez then we have THAT slugger (then work on an extension) and he is only 27.
Prospects vs proven Slugger, Mmmmm.....

Holy carp (yes carp), I can't believe people are complaining about how good our prospects are. Yeah, maybe we should trade all these guys for major league "studs." That's what the Yankees did with Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, and Posada, right? And that's what the Phillies did with Utley, Howard, Hamels, and Rollins, right?

Oh, sorry, what they actually did was let their prospects grow into "studs" and then SUPPLEMENTED with free agents. Thank God someone with a brain and some restraint is running the team instead of these idiots.

whats givens going to play? SS or P?

Bob- Wayne is making crap up. Thats who said it. The comment makes no sense whatsoever. You have to have a stocked farm system. Its like the current Yankees... the cupboard is bare. Nothing left to replace their aging infrastructure except for a smaller stadium and favorable wind patterns.

Front Page of Baseball America... like to think they know something about baseball... funny it says nothing about trading them all for a big hitter.

For the first time in years, there is reason to be optimistic if you're an Orioles fan. The big league team is coming off of another poor season, but the combination of young talent in the big leagues and additional pitching help in the Orioles Top 10 should make Baltimore a team to keep an eye on in upcoming years.
• Will Lingo chatted about the Orioles farm system .
• We've posted Top 10s for 19 different teams. Check all of them out or see the schedule for the remaining American League teams to be posted.

Steve, Steve, Steve..... you serious?

Of course they hit it big with the players you mentioned. But do you have any idea how many so called prospects teams like you mentioned have traded away over the years, getting tremendous value in return? Do you really know how ridiculous your post really is?

And Bob c, keep searching my man. Work that mouse!

SHAMROCK:

I have no doubt that Wayne made that up, like it is somehow a negative thing to have good talent in your minor league system. Wayne is psychotic. He needs help.

jongermany - if they trade for A-Gon, then no one will be able to keep hyping all the young prospects we have. I know - a proven 27 year old impact player for some prospects What fun would that be? It's so much more fun to talk about what ifs.

Wayne:

You're a mentally ill lying sack of crap.

Shamrock, this is the Orioles top 10. You act like it's the top 10 in all of baseball.

And no one said trade them all. If you're going to be a jerk then at least read post correctly.

Of course the Orioles should trade some of these prospects for a proven player like a-gonz. Anyone who doesn't see or understand that should just craw under a rock and simply go away.

Try to act like winning matters sham sham. Have some pride as this isn't little league where winning doesn't matter. This is where the big boys play and where WINNING is the ONLY thing that matters.

that and he ignores when other people prove him wrong.

Wayne, why in the world would you put the word 'prospects' in parentheses?
I think putting it in quotes as above might have made it sound less incredible.Unless incredible was what you were after. In any case, as we've discussed before, please attribute your quotes with a footnote, as acknowledging the source is the least you can do. As a wordsmith, you wouldn't want folks stealing your stuff, would you? And saves us the trouble of traipsing all over creation figuring out from where that little gem was plucked.
You are just one funny guy.
(I'll forward over a copy of Strunk and Whites's "The Elements of Style". Might find it helpful.)

what if the only one on that list that the padres want is matusz?

what if the padres don't want to trade the guy. are some people gonna spend the entire year beating on AM cause he couldn't get the pads to trade the superstar face of the franchise?

probably.

Would you trade a 27 year old All Star who you have locked up for the next 2 years at small dollars for a few prospects? If the Orioles had that player, and thought of trading him, could you imagine this blog.For arguments sake, let's imagine that the padres have no intention of trading the guy to anyone.

jim666,

Spend less time insulting me and more on the thought of winning.

Now watch..... ok? I mean really watch! Some other team will in fact trade prospects for the 27 yr old stud. When that happens, you'll have plenty of time to spin why the O's passed.

I know... i'm mentally ill... got it! SInce i'm too ill to function though, you'll watch for me, ok?

WIn Jim....... Just win!

as a great exec once said...Show me my (quotes) in a blog and I'll show you (stuff) I never (said).

keep looking grasshopper!

Wow. I mean wow

I didn't believe wayne about the planted bloggers, but you guys are making his case for him.

If you're not following along with the Andy plan on these blogs, you're butchered. I for one like the opposing view.

You guys should live in philly or new york where the fans go ballistic when their teams don't perform. They keep their teams on their toes.

In this city however, if you're not following the script, you're treated like how you're treating wayne.

By the way, thanks for the Top 10 list Peter S. It is interesting that the corner prospects are both of the age that most teams would have brought them up already. especially really bad teams like the Birds. Maybe they're prospects for the Birds but not players who are truly legitimate major leaguers?

It makes absolutely no sense to trade for Gonzalez. We have finally built up a good number of prospects. Our farm system is in the top 10 in all of baseball. If we make the trade, we would immediately drop to the bottom third. Why would it make any sense to trade away prospects when Gonzalez has 2 years left on his contract? The chances of of resigning him long term would be slim.

As great as it would be to get him, we need to stay the course. Let's see how our pitchers develop. Our offense was not really the problem. It was our pitching. I would much rather see us sign another pitcher, even if it is Bedard. Even if we don't sign another pitcher, we have Bergensen, Matusz, and Tillman who are on the brink of becoming a great trio. We have Arrieta, Erbe, and Britton on their way up too.

As far as a 1B is concerned, we still have Snyder, Waring, and Widlansky. One of them should pan out and be up in the majors in the next year or two. We could just easily sign a stop gap 1B without giving up any prospects. Worst case scenario, we put Reimold at 1B and leave Pie at LF. That would be just fine by me. I still think Delgado is the way to go if we do decide to sign a 1B as a stop gap short term.

FRANK, You just spelled out at least a couple more years of dismal losing. You can NOT win with prospects and fillers.

I'm with wayne. How about someone being interested in winning for a change. Not the damn pennant. But just something better than what we've seen.

Rizzo, I agree about Delgado being a possible steal at 1B in terms of if his career stats are any barometer of what he's capable of. Although I hear why people want Gonzalez, it's taken us a long time to build up a deep farm system, but I believe it will pay dividends. Stay the course.

Frank Rizzo,

You just spelled losing in your own way.

Suggesting this team can't sign at least one big contract player to an extension, when similar size markets are able to, means this team will never compete.

Problem is, this team can spend, but won't! Enjoy all your big name prospects Frank.

Enjoy the continued losing. In fact, invite brooksie and jim666 to your party when the Orioles get to 75 wins in a few years.

Boy Rizzo, you sure spelled out alot.....

I agree with everything said though.

Listen, I think wayne can be an ass at times, but you have to admit the numbers back him up.

FUN BLOG THOUGH

AJ- The problem has been pitching. Our offense has been just fine. The prospects will be starting this year in the rotation. Three of them to be exact. Had Bergensen not been injured, he could have made a case at ROY. This year, Matusz is expected to earn ROY. You also can't count out Reimold or Weiters. All rookies last year who in my opinion had a fine rookie season. The only question mark I see is the number 5 starter, Tillman. He may need more time in the minors to work on his command. Either way, I don't see him being a disappointment in the long term.

I think when Sherrill was traded, our bullpen lost morale. Now, with Gonzalez in there, I think they will be solid. Especially if the starters can go deeper in games then last year. It doesn't make a difference if you trade away prospects for a player you will have for 2 years. What happens then? Another decade of rebuilding trying to get prospects? You know we won't resign A. Gonzalez so why trade for him? It makes ZERO sense. We have the prospects in place. For the long term, it will prove to be more successful then trading someone for the short term and not having the other pieces in place.

Why is Reimold or Delgado not good enough to play 1B? Putting one of them at 1B will allow you to get production, even if it is not 40 HR's like A. Gonzalez. You can probably get close to 30 HR's from Delgado or Reimold with a full season. Remember Reimold played injured for most of the year. It was not until the pain was unbearable that he got surgery to repair his achillies tendon.

I don't understand why just because there's a Top 10 list, the Orioles are on a terrific track. Doesn't each team have a Top 10 list?

It's not like we're #1 with prospects. I keep hearing we're a Top 10 team when it comes to prospects. Well that's nothing to write home about, is it?

I mean wouldn't a team who has done as bad as this one has for the last couple years under new management be better than Top 10 in prospects perhaps?

I lived in Anaheim for a few years and they traded away prospects all the time, yet they still won allot.
Why is it so different here?

Go O's

petesBeef:

Unless you've changed your login name recently, you're fairly new around here. Let me explain. There are a lot of people who come on here with negative opinions about the Os. Good for them, there's nothing wrong with that. None of them though take that to the extreme the way Wayne does.

How sick does a person have to be to suggest that having a good crop of minor leaguers is somehow a negative, then when it dawns on him how he's going to sound for saying something so transparently stupid, tries to pass his idiocy off as something a "great exec" once said.

Wayne is a sick little troll, someone who sits alone in his room, so much of an obnoxious goof his entire life that he has no friends and is bitter about it to the point of trying to get a rise out of other people. It's his only pleasure in life.

We've all met guys like him as we were growing up, the short fat ugly kid at the back of the class who didn't fit in, not good with the girls, who tried way too hard and usually ended up getting himself tuned up by a bunch of guys behind the school every so often.

Did you ever wonder what happened to that guy. Allow me to introduce you to Wayne.

Frank,

It just seems that you're banking on all these young guys to come through. How can anyone expect that?

Matusz is expected to be ROY? That just seems ridiculous to me. Look at all the young great prospects that take steps backwards. Joba, Shurholtz, Ian Kennedy, etc, etc, etc.... all big time prospects that prove one thing. Young pitching is the least sure thing going.

Any team with consistent relevance must mix in proven stars. Baltimore isn't NY, but they aren't Kansas City. They have money to spend, but would rather pretend they're in a small market.

Sure Frank, having good young players is great. But to be as optimistic as you, thinking they'll all thrive, is very irresponsible, likely leading to continued misery.

On the 17th, ESPN reported that the Yankees were close to signing Nick Johnson.

Wayne, I never said you were mentally ill. I said you were funny. No need to confuse. I was not insulting you, just offering a few tips to improve your style. Some folks can't take constructive criticism is what I think.

You're now channeling Al Davis? Scary.
Seems like the Just Win Baby mantra is worth about 5 wins a year, and a revolving cast of characters worthy of an HBO series.

How about we drop the AGon thing already. You'll be hanging your hat on that whether they ever get the guy or don't. With any luck, the Pads will sign the guy long term and folks can get on with their lives.

petesbeef,

bobs's right about everything he said. He must be. I mean he's always positive about the orioles because they win, right?

i mean it's ok that he goes on personal attacks because...well because he has the win/loss column to back him up, right?

Me? I'm just a little troll like he says. Someone who wants them to win JUST a little bit more than they do.

I sit in the same seats i've had since the yards opened with many friends around and we all just want them to win JUST a tiny bit more.

We're all ugly, fat trolls who did awful in school while guys like bobc got all the girls. You know the type, right? Man, I hated guys like him.

Anyway, keep rooting for the O's and by all means....listen to everything guys like bob says.

Troll - out!

AJ the "prospects" were already brought up last year. You think Bergensen, Matusz, Reimold, Weiters, and Pie will regress and not improve after a rookie season under their belt? Now, if you are asking if I think Arrieta, Erbe, Britton, Bell, Snyder, Waring, and Wilandski will pan out, then no. I don't think they all will. That is why you need depth in your farm system. In case some don't pan out. When you have numbers, you bring the next guy up. When you give the farm away, you lose that depth and if the ones left don't pan out, then you are pretty much screwed. That has been our problem for the past 10 years. We had no depth in the farm system. We consistently had one of the worse in the league. It would make much more sense to make a trade if it would put us over the top. We are not there yet. You may not think so, but I think we have a good shot at finishing over .500 this season.

Again, if you have Bergense, Matusz, and Tillman start the season in the rotation, I think they will improve. Their improvement is what will help the most. Our pitching has been the problem. Our offense has been just fine. The "pitching prospects" are already in the rotation. Why would you want to trade our next crop of prospects away when you can sign someone without giving them up? Please explain that. Our team ERA was the highest in all of baseball. Even if we are in the middle of the pack, that should be good enough to be over .500 next season. Once the pitching is set, then we can make the trade to put us over the top. Or even sign a big free agent without giving any of them up. Next years free agent class is much better.

AJ the "prospects" were already brought up last year. You think Bergensen, Matusz, Reimold, Weiters, and Pie will regress and not improve after a rookie season under their belt? Now, if you are asking if I think Arrieta, Erbe, Britton, Bell, Snyder, Waring, and Wilandski will pan out, then no. I don't think they all will. That is why you need depth in your farm system. In case some don't pan out. When you have numbers, you bring the next guy up. When you give the farm away, you lose that depth and if the ones left don't pan out, then you are pretty much screwed. That has been our problem for the past 10 years. We had no depth in the farm system. We consistently had one of the worse in the league. It would make much more sense to make a trade if it would put us over the top. We are not there yet. You may not think so, but I think we have a good shot at finishing over .500 this season.

Again, if you have Bergense, Matusz, and Tillman start the season in the rotation, I think they will improve. Their improvement is what will help the most. Our pitching has been the problem. Our offense has been just fine. The "pitching prospects" are already in the rotation. Why would you want to trade our next crop of prospects away when you can sign someone without giving them up? Please explain that. Our team ERA was the highest in all of baseball. Even if we are in the middle of the pack, that should be good enough to be over .500 next season. Once the pitching is set, then we can make the trade to put us over the top. Or even sign a big free agent without giving any of them up. Next years free agent class is much better.

Barb, say hello to Wayne...

so now if a kid doesn't make the majors by 22 he's not a legitimate prospect. Tough crowd.

I think MacPhail is playing the right hands this year. It's interesting that I've seen a few times on ESPN's site that the Oriole's are a team on the rise, just by getting a guy like Gonzalez to be our closer or late-innings guy. Some of the writer's are saying look out for the O's in 2011, but are hesitant b/c they lack the pop to compete with the bats in the division. I think that MacPhail has the right idea in setting up the team this year to further develop guys. I feel like he will be ready to dish out money and prospects next season (2011) for a few big bats that will be available in free agency. I think it's a very effective plan, that way he can pick and choose which prospects will best fit the mold for the O's future 2011 team and forward. Those who won't contribute as much, he can then trade away and get a big bat or even two, but then he also has the flexibility where we're going to have the finances to break out a big contract or two on a player or more. I know it's tough to be patient, but the way Andy's going is the right way to do it. Remember, the O's spent their first several seasons taking this approach when the team moved to Baltimore in 1954, and the approach by Lee MacPhail worked brilliantly. Give Andy a chance and be patient a bit more, b/c if we return to the "Oriole Way" and compete for many years, it will make up immensely for the losing seasons, and Baltimore can return to its winning tradition once again. I know a lot of this is just speculation, but as fans what else do we have? At least this team has some sort of direction now, and that is really important too.

Frank,

Hitting may not have been a problem, but it wasn't a line-up that will scare anyone. And they have no middle of the line-up. And please don't say Miggy or Atkins, etc...

And no one is saying trade all the prospects. Wayne didn't even say that. I'm just saying it's time to mix in some prime time players. How can any one argue that?

Is it your money? Why wouldn't you ask that they spend appropriately? Do fans get a discount when the Angelos family spends less?

I'm all for young players. It just seems a mix is needed to compete.

Joe,

I'm sorry. I may be new to the scene, but did you just compare anything happening today to when the team developed in the 50's and 60's?

I'm sorry, but the Oriole Way that you describe will never return. Baseball has completely changed ad the Orioles need to adjust, or they'll just continue to be bottom dwellers.

I understand trying to grow your own. Doing so the way the original Orioles did though, will never happen again.

This is not a video game! Everyone thinks it is so easy to trade for any and everyone...Trade this and that for Adrian Gonzalez....The Padres have 45 Hrs and 100 rbis for almost $5 million.. Why trade that when the Padres have to sell tickets? Think realistically people!....Why not just trade for Teixeira, A-Rod, Pujols, and Hanley Ramirez? We'd ONLY need to trade away Luke Scott... ..Realize the Oriole way of before is NO MORE! What is the oriole way? doing exactly what everyone has said we do the past 10 years! McPhail is doing a tremendous job rebuilding this team.

This is not a video game! Everyone thinks it is so easy to trade for any and everyone...Trade this and that for Adrian Gonzalez....The Padres have 45 Hrs and 100 rbis for almost $5 million.. Why trade that when the Padres have to sell tickets? Think realistically people!....Why not just trade for Teixeira, A-Rod, Pujols, and Hanley Ramirez? We'd ONLY need to trade away Luke Scott... ..Realize the Oriole way of before is NO MORE! What is the oriole way? doing exactly what everyone has said we do the past 10 years! McPhail is doing a tremendous job rebuilding this team.

I actually think some are being unfair to wayne. I don't agree with everything he says, but he doesn't deserve everything he's getting. He's actually made me think about some things differently. I don't think that's a bad thing. Goodnight all

This is not a video game! Everyone thinks it is so easy to trade for any and everyone...Trade this and that for Adrian Gonzalez....The Padres have 45 Hrs and 100 rbis for almost $5 million.. Why trade that when the Padres have to sell tickets? Think realistically people!....Why not just trade for Teixeira, A-Rod, Pujols, and Hanley Ramirez? We'd ONLY need to trade away Luke Scott... ..Realize the Oriole way of before is NO MORE! What is the oriole way? doing exactly what everyone has said we do the past 10 years! McPhail is doing a tremendous job rebuilding this team.

I guess it is a sort of unfair analogy here. You're right that it's a bit different, but what I would like to see is something comparable, but modified to fit today's style of game. What I mean is by continuing to grow prospects and continually stocking the farm system, we have more guys that we can play with in terms of trades for the big guys that can come in here and make us excel in our division. It has to start somewhere, and we clearly don't have the same funds to just buy championships. I guess part of my problem is that I would love to see a homegrown team kick the crap out of Boston and New York, because that way we did it the right way, a way that would prove that you don't have to have an 80 billion dollar payroll (exaggerating) to win, but we both know that in today's game there's no way that's possible. I think it will be interesting this season though with guys like Millwood (hopefully), Guthrie (when on), Bergesen, and Matusz who can pitch into the late innings of a game and keep it relatively low-scoring.

Ryan,

It's no secret the Padres want to move him, getting what they can either this year or next. That's why it's different than Tex or Pujols. Still though, it won't be easy. He's certainly worth a try though.

As for AM, before crowning the rebuilding he's done, know that he had nothing to do with the signing of players like Markakis, Reimold, Bergesen, Weiters and others. It just seems that's an important distinction to make, especially in fairness to the those who are responsible for those players, as well as others.

That's not to say he hasn't brought in some quality young players. It's just far less than fair minded people want to admit.

He had nothing to do with signing Markakis and Weiters!?!?! Really?!?! Weiters had the highest bonus of any player in the amateur draft due to McPhail signing him at the last minute (which was necessary) and markakis just signed an extension, McPhail's doing..

And what inside do you have as to what the Padres want to do? There has been nothing but speculation that teams are interested.

1,2,4,5,8,9 on this list are McPhail's doing....if not more.

Wayne is treated the way he is because he is the north end of a southbound horse. He can disagree all he wants. Most of us recognize that there have been and continue to be issues with the way this team is run. BUt we do not think we are the messiah and proclaim what will happen in the future and refuse to cite our sources. We do not make our keyboards sticky at the thought we are aggravating people or antagonizing people or being a blight on an entire community. There are sick people who just can only be happy when making others unhappy and Wayne is an example. He is a smarmy, self impressed pissant and thus is treated as such.

I agree with his point that we should be moving heaven and hell to grab GOnzalez. I just dont believe him when he plays loose with the facts and refuses to support his whacko assertions. Throw in the stuff like pompously telling us to accept his assertion thta he knows the Orioles will sign Holliday but demands to be taken seriously without being questioned or his taunts to do the work HE should be doing in citing his sources and Peter's editing of any cursing means that Wayne is treated with more respect than he deserves. The abuse he suffers is well deserved and has little to do with his opinion of the Orioles management and lots to do with his manner.

Maybe it's just the winter time but this blog is getting really boring. Every post is one extremist argue against another. Can we get any kind of intelligent/rational discussion going at all or is going to be the same crap everyday. And by that I mean there's a topic, then Wayne says some negative idiot babble and then everyone feels the need to respond to his drivel. Ughhh. You guys are ruining what was once something interesting.

By the way, I'd bet a million dollars that Wayne, petesBeef, and AJ are in fact the same pathetic loser in his mother's basement. And that neither of them has season tickets or works in New York "a few" days a week, or knows/ever met someone within the Angelos family nevermind the Orioles front office.

Sorry, Weiters was drafted before AM arrived. AM has admitted as much. I guess we can give him a partial assist though. And signing Markakis to an extension falls under a different category altogether.

As for 1,2,4,5,8 and 9. Like I said, he has brought in some good young players. Again though, this is the O's top 10 list, not all of baseballs. Every team has their own list.... We'll see how many pan out. Odds are, only a few will, which is the nature of the game.

While the BA top ten list seems fairly accurate a previous commenter is entirely correct that the most recent year's picks should not be included. The best example is the fact that Billy Rowell was named our #1 prospect on this list a few years back.

Sorry horseshoe, never said they were going to sin Holliday. Nope, sorry!

And djph, brilliant work!

Thanks Barb! Careful though, the attacks may start coming your way....or wait, maybe you're me. Damn, that's confusing!

Afterall, if you're not a positive, bleed orange and blackster, you can't possibly have a mind of your own.

By the way Barb, you think bobc, horseshoe, 666 and djduh are the same? Ahh.... Gets a little clearer!

prospects. We talkin about prospects! Not real players but prospects. Not a real player but prospects.

lol

We should trade some of them.

What does this mean we should move to Norfolk?

There are some real punks on this blog! You're right Barb, some of it is just wrong. Hey djvj or whatever your tag is. You're a disgrace. I don't know wayne or care to know wayne, but his post did not attack anyone personally. Sure, he attacks the baltimore orioles, but why is that so wrong? And who cares if he has season tickets? You just sound petty and jealous. Respond to his opinion but don't be a douch. And yes, i'm making it personal, because you and others deserve it. I just read many of the post again, and at least some people, even wayne, talked about the topic at hand. You however, came out of nowhere as a gutless jerk.

Seth,

wow...... now that's funny!

Come on horse, 666, dj, bob and the rest......that was hilarious!

Careful though Seth... these really, really, really mean guys will start calling you really bad names.

And yeah, I'm new to the blog. Sorry to ruin your little frat party. If you don't mind though, I love differing views. I thought Schmucks blog subject was interesting, and yes, there were differing views of what it all means. doesn't give you the right to be a punk though. If you want to be though, I'll come back at you anytime, anywhere. See if you and your little boys can stay on point now.

Settle down fella's. All I'll say is that people are allowed different views. I'm sure Pete would agree.

Now get some rest

I don't know about Wayne's exec, but it sounds somewhat similar to a quote by Thomas Boswell that I read a long time ago while first trying to understand the philosophical and psychological parts of baseball.

I don't have the book now, but here is what I wrote in my notes:

‘What’s more misleading than a farm system that boasts of winning several bush-league pennants and of having ’50 top prospects’? The wise team knows it’s lucky to have 5 real prospects at any one time: the minors exist to move these few forward. The club that can’t discriminate among its own prospects …… might as well save its money. Clubs ….. which correctly spot their (stars) then advance them boldly and make room for them confidently, are rare.’

SHAMROCK, re: your comments concerning Yankees and prospects. You forgot to add, "lots of cash", to your list of advantages.

SHAMROCK, re: your comments concerning Yankees and prospects. You forgot to add, "lots of cash", to your list of advantages.

SHAMROCK, re: your comments concerning Yankees and prospects. You forgot to add, "lots of cash", to your list of advantages.

Not sure how Hobgood rates higher than Snyder based on what we've seen. Also think Waring and Turner could've surpassed Givens who hasn't played yet. Weird. Guess it's impossible to land on this poll as a relief pitcher.

Jay... the cash thing is obviously... they should be able to buy themselves over .500. But once that core (Jeter, Rivera, Posada, etc) is gone or starts breaking down (as seen in the past few years) they have nothing left in reserve. In the billion dollars they have spent in the past 8 years, it has bought them 1 world series. There bullpen is made up of not-good enough prospects. Melky and Gardner aren't that great.

Hank Steinbrenner is going to be his father (?) reincarnated in the 70-80s and run the team into the ground. Give it a few years and a 40 year old Derek Jeter.

Wayne...

I did not act like they were the best 10 in baseball, however BA.com had the O's on their front page, so they must be doing something right.

I recognize you did not suggest trading them all for anyone. I also recognize that you don't make any suggestions at all? All you do is complain and allege Massive Warehouse Conspiracy. And talk about how much you hate losing (again, civic pride or not, you aren't doing the losing, unless you are Brian Roberts in disguise.) Need to separate yourself a little, it clouds you objectivity.

How about starting your own page somewhere else and let all the disgruntled complainers filter over there.Leave the baseball talk to this page. Maybe you can make up your own jerseys and take winning matters into your own hands. Vigilante baseball blogging!

You are the relative that nobody likes because you are a hater. Like the WR's brother in Jerry McGuire. Tidwell does something good and the brother says something to the effect of him being too small of that he'll get hurt.

win or lose, the world will keep turning, young men in Baltimore will keep killing each other over drugs and America will continue its descent into socialism. But for now, let all of us enjoy talking baseball like sensible, objective adults.

Peter-
I think it's GREAT that the O's have 4 position players on that list now, and I also think it's great that their are probably about 5-8 other names that could be on that list.
It is about time that we are back to having a solid stable of prospects, that many teams would kill for, from Bluefield to Norfolk.
To think that Lebron, and Avery, Wirsch, etc could ALL be on that list too is great.

Last year it was the big 3, then they fell a bit, but I think now it is more solid, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the O's move into the Top 5 systems up from 9 last year.

Happy Holidays! Good luck AM & the O's!

Happy Holidays! Good luck AM & the O's!

Happy Holidays! Good luck AM & the O's!

I'm not sure why this has become so combative...I think it's nice to have a place to go where O's fans can exchange views and opinions that may or may not be in agreement, but is fun and light hearted, I think we wall want thge same thing, a productive season for the team we all root for, anyway..I hope we can keep that in mind and enjoy the use of this site with that spirit in mind.

I didn't read all the post. Josh Bell, wasn't he 8th best in the Dodgers organization and why is Brandon Waring not in the top 10?

WOW! And i thought nobody cared about the O's! I can think of a thousand things better to do on a Friday night then chat on the Orioles. I think some people on this board should get out of the house and get a drink!
What about P. Fielder from the Brewers? He would make EVERYONE in the lineup better. IF the O's are serious about trading for either guy ( A. Gonz) they are going to have to trade 2 of there top pitching prospects which I'm ok with, I think top teams have a combination of both home grown players and players signed through FA or trades. I think it's that simple!

Hey professor,

You're going to get run out of town with that kind of logic. Can't do it on this blog sir. Doesn't fit the gang criteria.

For the record though, your notes are right on. Such type of qoutes have been attributed to any number of highly successful gm's/pres's, etc through the years, especially during the free agent era.

There's a reason you kept the notes you did...because what you heard made so much sense.

Instead of real winning however, these blogs are obsessed with winning the prospects race.

When I say such however, I get accused of being overly negative and not having a plan of my own. Well I'm not the kind to list lineups, and i'm certainly not going to list name after name after name (complete with stats) of who the O's should or shouldn't acquire.

Instead, I'll continue to simply use St Louis as the model. One that mixes quality youth with proven veterans. One that can't spend like the NY's and Boston's but one that acts like the market size they are and spends 'allot' on the right players. One that has a special relationship with its fans, and one that usually wins (doesn't always make the playoffs mind you), but is always respectable.

No, it's not specific enough - guilty! I don't list Bill James stats and analysis and I don't pretend to know which prospects other teams really covet. But I do see a club in a similar size market that respects its fans. No, they don't have to compete in the ALEast, but if they did, you can bet they'd always be respectable.

That's all I've ever asked for.

How is Brandon Waring NOT in the top 10? He hits 20+ HR's at any level he has been at. Last year he led the Carolina league in RBI's, slugging% and was 2nd in HR's and Doubles and yet doesnt make the top 10 list?

Brett, because the list is as unscientific as it gets. How high was Bergesen on any list last offseason? Bet you he was behind all the so-called stud prospects (Tillman, etc).

Think about how the list is comprised, then think about how relevant it really is.

The list is truly just a piece of paper, with little meaning. Ask Bergy!

The list is just a list....like one of those VH1 shows...top 20 Hollywood divorce scandals. Meaningless.

I find it hard to understand the view some take on the job AM has done. He didn't draft Wieters but he signed him. Doubt Flannaquette would have accomplished that. AM also has 2 more months to finalize the roster.....patience everyone, patience.

Hey wayne,

A few questions:

1. Who's your "great exec"? (I might have missed it, scrolling through 80 comments.)

2. You're only half right about Wieters. The kid was drafted by Mike Flanagan, but it was MacPhail who took Scott Boras to the 11th hour and got Wieters to sign a contract. Flanny (the least qualified GM in the history of sports) would have wet himself under that kind of pressure.

I guess that was only one question. Hah...

Brooksie,

Understood, and I think I used the 'assist' word, right? Brutally unfair to dis Flanny like you have as his hands were overwhelmingly tied. I'm surprised however that AM hasn't gotten credit for signing Cal Jr.

And you scrolled through 80 comments? lol! Keep looking and maybe do a google search. Also, see Professors post above.

Keep your opinion Brooksie. I'll stick with mine. Youth is great, but I could care less about moving from # 9 to the Top 5 rated farm.

If google doesn't work, try aol,

Hey Pete, with all the snow, the yahoo's are really going to be restless today.

You really should step in on some of them though. not brooks and wayne can both be know it all pinheads, but people like djph are just mean spirited and take things to a terrible level.

Differing opinions are entertaining and make for good reading. When people get personal though, I believe you should pull them from the blog. Even guys like AJ, while only responding to personal attacks took it to far.

Gotta go shovel again! Guys like wayne and not brooks, keep at it. Others like djph though, need to just go away

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Just got home last night, Barry, and see that the natives are still restless. I've been paying attention and agree that we shouldn't be bashing each other so much, but I'm not going to censor anyone unless people start getting obscene or making threats. I'll review some of the posts right now.

We should have a lot of prospects. Been drafting in the top five amateur choices for past 12 years.
We've been brainwashed into thinking 500% baseball is the promised land.

wayne -

Regardless of the situation with Angelos. Mike Flanangan had no business running a major league baseball team. Prior to joining the front office, at it's highest rank, no less, Flanagan was a pitching coach and a broadcaster. Seriously?

Is Tillman somehow no longer qualified for the list? Surely he hasn't fallen off that much.

Jonathan -

Tillman's no longer a rookie, so I guess BA doesn't consider him a prospect anymore.

Brooksie,

Agreed about Flanny. He shouldn't have had the gig. He's a good man though and to not give him credit for doing things like drafting Weiters is simply unfair.

When did I ever fail to give Flanny credit for drafting Wieters? I said, "The kid was drafted by Mike Flanagan..." That wasn't enough?

(Of course, a six-year-old girl would have known to draft Wieters when he fell to the O's, so giving Flanny credit for it isn't really saying too much...)

ok brooks. whatever you say

I don't normally agree with Wayne, but in this case I think we need to trade some of these Blue Chips for that All-Start caliber player... If we let the Redsox get Gonzalez, we can keep trying to finish in 3rd place. You get Gonzalez because he makes you better now. You also get him so that your division rivals don't get further ahead of you. The only way you don't do whatever it takes to get Gonzalez is that you know you are going to go all out and get Fielder next off season. (Not Likely)
I think we need to make this move now. We need to get Gonzalez where we can control him for at least 2 years or sign him to an extention. Like I have posted before... sign Holliday, and Bedard (or Sheets) and trade Pie, Snyder, Arrieta or Britton, and Luke Scott to SD for Gonzalez. GET it DONE ANDY!!

I get your point wayne. Some people just refuse to listen. It's amazing how people have selective memory's just so they can appear to be right all the time. I for one have a 6 year niece. She loves the Orioles, yet she wouldn't have know to draft weiters. I'm sure mike flanagan feels great beig compared to a year old girl.

You're not going the win the battle against andy's plan though wayne. People have convinced themselves that he's responsible for all things good. His missteps don't and never will be aknowlegded .

PetesBeef,

I live in NYC. Your statement that teams in cities like New York have no patience for the development of young players is silly. Clowns pull the plug on a program just when the getting is getting good. All great teams develop their players and add free agents as necessary.

Wayne and the rest of his Pathetic Posse should tell us...in specific terms...who do you want to trade for who? Make your pitch to me as the San Diego GM.

I already know what half of you will say-- you'll list ten mid-level minor leaguers, throw in Pie and Luke Scott and think SD will bite. See Tony P. It's ridiculous. Those sort of trades work in fantasy sports if you've got a chump owner dealing. You want AG, you WILL give up Tillman or Matusz. If I'm doing the math, no thank you, not for two years of service.

I already hear the courses of "trade and extend, trade and extend." Why would he do that unless we paid an enormous premium? Forget it, he's a power hitting FIRST BASEMEN, almost all of them are. Keep your pitchers and buy (not trade for) your bats.

Thanks Andy for keeping us on track.

Facts about Matt Wieters being signed by the Orioles:

1. Matt Wieters was DRAFTED (not signed) by the Orioles on June 7, 2007

2. Andy MacPhail was HIRED by the Orioles on June 20, 2007

3. Matt Wieters SIGNED a contract with the Orioles on August 15, 2007 with the richest bonus in franchise history

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who was in charge of negotiating and signing Matt Wieters to a contract.

On another note, so many people often overlook Joe Joyce, who is the main reason many of our prospects are in the organization. He has been our director of scouting since November of 2004, and was responsible for drafting:

1. Brian Matusz, lhp
3. Zach Britton, lhp
4. Jake Arrieta, rhp
5. Matt Hobgood, rhp
6. Brandon Snyder, 1b
7. Brandon Erbe, rhp
9. Mychal Givens, ss
10. Caleb Joseph, c

...from the above list. The other two of course were acquired in trades. He also drafted:

Matt Wieters
Nolan Reimold,
David Hernandez
Jason Berken

I love how Wayne thinks the Professor's logic supports his negativity. Sorry Wayne but that's a window into you simple-minded thinking.

The Orioles are that rare and exemplary organization that the Professor describes thanks to the work of Andy MacPhail. They have a small group of top prospects and they have moved them quickly to the major league team (or was that not Tillman, Matusz, Hernandez, Bergesen, Reimold and Weiters that I saw on the field last year??).

Your skull is thick Wayne but perhaps this tiny thought can penetrate, the bad team that the Professor describes is the one that Thrift, Flanagan and Beattie ran for a decade. MacPhail is running the right program.

At first it was funny to learn that the GM your quoting was a Post sportswriter (close), but that laugh was far surpassed by watching you foolishly thank the Professor for elaborating on the quote in a manner that support Andy Mac's plan.

You're a treat Wayne. Don't go anywhere.

Brett -

Obviously, a 6-year-old girl wouldn't have actually known to draft Wieters. I was being sarcastic. You know, where you say things that aren't entirely true?

My point was that Flanagan was a joke of a GM and wasn't close to qualified for the job. It makes me wonder about his character that he even took the job when it was offered to him. Is he that arrogant that he thought he could run a MLB team with zero front office experience?

Hey breadhead,

You're going to call me pathetic while saying I said something I never said? Show me where I said NY has no patience for developing young players you jackass.

You wanna talk NY? Let's go! I worked in manhattan for 7 years and I'm back regularly.

Whether it's the Post, the Dailey News, every sports talk show, every blog (anywhere), the fans, media - you name it, every team is held accountable to a screaming pitch.

Baltimore is a bunch of pansies in comparison.

So bring something back at me that I really said you pxssy. Want to talk NY, bring it on.

I tell you, I am SO glad some of the people I read don't run this team.

The POINT is not just to shove stop gaps into positions, or pray that a prospect pans out. You want the BEST players possible at every position and in your rotation according to how much money you have to spend.

Money doesn't affect the O's simply because they are very young and will have plenty to throw around the next few years.

Why do we want Adrian Gonzales you ask? Because after Pujols, he is the best 1B in baseball right now. And everything he has done has been on a team where he wasn't protected very well.

Most prospect don't pan out. Thats why all the teams that WIN every year, are constantly trading to get ALL Star and proven MLB players.

The problem in the past with the O's is, they didn't spend on the draft or on international free agents, so they didn't have many prospects. The last 3 years have changed all that.

Do you really think that the O's will EVER beat the Yankees and Red Sox by signing Millars, Huffs, and the like? Or, just really hoping Snyder blossoms into the next "Adrian Gonzales"?
No. We will lose another 12 years like that.
The O's are at the point right now that a stud like that would complete the team as far as offense and position players are concerned.
We are already assuming Bell will be ready to take over at 3rd.
So that leaves 1b. Why not go for the stud?
Its not like we have 9 spots to fill. 2 years ago is when you don't trade prospects, because they were so far away.
Not now. Not with the hordes of pitching in the mix and on the cusp.

Delgado is the only exception, simply because when healthy, he IS a stud.
AG obviously is the best option because of his age and salary.

But, yeah, put Snyder there and see how good we are.
Meanwhile the Sox and Yankees pay and trade for All-Stars at EVERY position and rotation slot, and some of you just want to keep on with the status quo.
MLBTV had a spot on the O's last Wednesday, about the hordes of talent we have coming up, and the core group in the MLB now, and every analyst on there pointed out that now would be the PERFECT time to move a few of the prospects to get that last piece that could put us up there with NY and Boston.

Reasoning is, when you get and Adrian Gonzales, you are not just getting his stats, your making everyone else SO MUCH BETTER.

When the Angels rebuilt quickly after their WS win, they went young, and then signed Guerrero who made that whole line-up 2 times as good.

Don't you get what AG would do to Markakis, Jones, Reimold, and Weiters numbers?
Snyder ain't gonna do that, sorry.
Then, all those extra runs, give your pitchers more cushion, to relax, just pitch, grow, and get better, which then leads to more wins.
It's not even a debate. For anyone that watches all the franchises that actual win once in a while, they see the formula.
Core group of 5 or 6 position players. 3 or 4 homegrown starters, and 3 or 4 bullpen arms.
Grow those arms, then BUY the bats. That last piece.
AG is that. Tex would have been that, but he is a bandwagon fruit.
Trust me, Macphail knows that too, and it really wouldn't surprise me.
The ONLY question is, if it would be smarter to just wait til next season, when AG only has 1 year left, and "costs" maybe 1 prospect less.
But is everyone content in losing another year, when they probably don't have to?

Somebody's been looking over somebody's shoulder. ..The Baseball Prospectus top 15 list, published November 9, is almost identical, except Arrieta and Britton were reversed, Erbe and Snyder were reversed, Mickolio was not in the top 10 (#13), boosting Givens to 8, Joseph to 9 and Waring as number 10. Just enough change to fool the teacher. Oh, by the way, 11 is Cameron Coffey, 12 Steve Johnson, Patton 14 and Michael Olman 15.

............................................................................................
Pete's reply: It's possible that both of them viewed the prospects similarly, which would actually give more credibility to both lists. I doubt Baseball America needs to copy off the student next to it.

Nice post Ryan!

JeffChill-
Who is Joe Joyce?

I think you mean Joe Jordan. And who overlooks him? He IS the reason the O's are now a top 10 farm system, maybe even a top 5 this year when BA puts out its rankings.

I think everyone is being a little too hard on Flanagan. He tried. He brought in Tejada, he tried to get Guerrero and was about 20 minutes away from getting him.

Guerrero had his ticket to Baltimore to sign the contract, he was AT THE AIRPORT when the Angels called him and said give us 1 more shot.

Also, they had Bedard, Cabrera, Penn, and Loewen. He thought that was the top 4 taking the O's back to the playoffs.
it didn't pan out. (maybe some of you who are against trading some of the prospects for AG should think about that)

Anyway, Macphail and Flanagan both made a great decision when they let Joe Jordan call the shots on draft day the last 5 years and rely on their area scouts.

Jordan actually thinks that when we look back at the turning point, it was his decision to draft Reimold, based on the area scout that told him Nolan was a can't miss.

The only difference between Flanagan and Macphail is, Macphail knew that you can't just buy 25 players, you have to have that core group of homegrown position players (think Jeter,Posada,Williams, etc.) before you can just go out and spend on the Studs to finish the team.

Relax fellows, Don't be nasty. Wayne's not the nasty one on these blogs. You may not agree with him but some people like what he offers. I for one didn't at first, but now I do. Still, I'd rather be positive and hope that wayne is incorrect in what he says. Sure makes you think though. It's likely we really do have to wait so long before this team will ever even be competitive. ugh!

LOL, thanks Ryan. Of course I meant Joe Jordan. I have no idea why I typed Joyce. My head is stuck in the snow clouds.

Arieta, Erbe, Mikolio, Spoone & Snyder for Adrian Gonzalez.

Don't post too often but it is not enjoyable to read the personal attacks back and forth..
Do Wayne and Olde toys and other overly negative people realize how childish and boorish their comments are.....I realize they get insults hurled back at them but their comments are usually so aggressive and idiotic they seem to be waiting for a rebuke...
I really think if the most clever thing you can come up with is to change Mr. Macphails name to macFAIL just shows how really challenged you are to make a cogent argument. The evidence that the franchise has been moving in a very positive direction is so obvious that only someone with an agenda or someone ignorant in the extreme could claim that things are really bad right now.

How about this for all the haters....

If you insist on 3rd grade type name calling like changing AM's name to macfail, at least have the courtesy of providing us your name so we can make fun of it and tell us what type business you have run and finished at the top in your field 2 years (Minnesota) and taken another organization (Cubs) to the closest they have been to the top in 100 years....after you give us your credentials as a top executive then you can feel free to call people names like an 8 year old.

Well said Ryan.

Can any of the stat heads out there find stats that prove that hitting in front of a stud helps a hitter? I thought i heard or read that Man-Ram raked whether big papi hit behind him or not...of course he'd rake if I hit behind him. I understand the logic of seeing better pitches, etc...just like to see if its real.

I think Nick will improve to .300/24/105 next year just because he's still improving. Would having AG behind him push him to .315/29/112?

Hey bill,

I've never said macFail. Again, just made up stuff by some of you.

I noticed where Petes called out someone above for also saying something he didn't say.

Insult the things I do say if you'd like, but flat out lying is worse than anything you can accuse me of.

Lets put it this way Wayne, You have said far more provacative things than that. I really didn't say you said that but its a recurring theme as are your overly negative and cynical posts one constant drumbeat

Wayne,
You should read a post carefully ....

I'm relieved to see Hobgood rate so well. I cringe at drafting a high school pitcher and this one didn't exactly tear it up during his limited stint with Bluefield (4.72 ERA, 8 GS, only 26.2 IP). Perhaps it is common for high schoolers to be used so sparingly at first.

Bill Frederick,

i'm not a big fan of his, but it sure looks likes you said wayne said that. I don't know. Maybe I'm not reading carefully either.

Sure seems the more many of you post, the better wayne ends up looking. Maybe people should think before they type.

Cush,

I think Ryan makes a good case and I do believe AG would help Markakis's stats immeasurably. It's amazing what happens when #3 hitters have protection. See Tex when ARod returned from injury.

Apparently my comment last night sparked some fireworks. All I was suggesting is that the blog suffers when about 80% of the posts are people carrying on some personal arguement doing the whole he said she said thing. It's not fun to even have to sift through it to find someone who has something thought provoking to say about the state of the Orioles.

Agree that the name calling (I'm guilty out of frustration with the "pathetic loser" statement and apologize) should stop.

It is also my opinion that the person who has suggested that the "Warehouse" pays people to post positive remarks, is in fact posting varying degrees of relevant comments under many different names. Just my personal opinion by looking at writing style and repeat references. It doesn't even really matter and this will be my last post that mentions another commentor of this blog or anything that's not directly related to the Orioles.

............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I appreciate your decision to dial down the rhetoric a bit. Obviously, you're a big part of a lively conversation, but I think we can have it without questioning the motives of the other posters. I only wish the team cared enough about my blog to pay people to post positive comments on it.

I'll be sure to tell wayne, gil, aj rob, ryan and anyone else who uses this computer. Our misfortune is that you a crackerjack detective. Damn it wayne, I told you dj would catch on... What's that rob? You think djph, jim66, shamrock and bobc are the same guy? I'm the one who told you that. oh whatever!

No question having a stud cleanup hitter helps everyone 1-3. Let's get A-Gonz. Please.

There's my man djph. Hey brother, I'll be tailgating in Lot O tomorrow, along the fence with my big santa hat on...... Come on by for a dog and a bear. We can have a little chat. See you there

Hey AJ, Barb, PetesBeef, et al,

I realize I'm getting onto this entry really late...but if any of you guys are still posting hopefully you'll see this.

I really dislike the personal attacks on the blog and I'm not the only one. Most of us wish we could just come here and talk baseball and not have to worry about being called losers, idiots, unemployed, etc. It really takes away from the fun. At the end of the day, you'd think this was a political blog with the level of vitriol it evokes. (then again, there was that one time when it did become a political blog for a week...i think we all remember how awful that was...)

Anyway, I'll come right out and say it. I'm a believer. I think patience will be a virtue for this team and I am glad that things are truly moving in the right direction for the first time in a long time.

The thing that you newcomers are missing is that those of us who have been posting at this blog for months, or years, have been taking a lot of abuse for a long time. Granted, we seem like the aggressors now. and personally, i disagree with a lot of the things being said to the likes of Wayne. I think it's unnecessary. But, eventually, people on my side of the argument reached a tipping point.

For a long time, we sat idly by as people, Wayne in particular, began to attack us personally in a more and more aggressive way. Sure, when you read Wayne's posts now it seems like he's taking the moral high ground often, evoking logic and reason. But, go back maybe only a week or two and you will see post after post signed by Wayne calling us idiots, loser, telling us what ignorant fools we are. Telling us that we are too stupid to see the conspiracy that's really going on. Mostly personal attacks, directed not at our fandom, but our integrity. Posts about how Bmore sports fans have no class. The list goes on. This went on for a long time. Generally the responses were minimal. until we reached a breaking point. Now there is zero tolerance for Wayne on this blog. It got so bad that even posters like Gil, who always had been on the same side as Wayne, started to dissociate themselves from his hateful, illogical, tantrums.

I agree, to a newcomer, it may seem like we all gang up on the one guy who thinks differently than us. I agree, if that were true, it would be intellectually ugly and immoral. But, that's just not the case. Wayne spent months earning every bit of anger that is spewed out in his direction. Now, like I said to begin this post, I don't like everything that's said to him. I think a lot of it is over the top and unnecessary. But, I do understand where it comes from. And trust me when I say there's a long way to go before the stuff we throw back at him evens up to what he's dished out over the last few months.

oh...and if you don't believe me, you can always go back a few weeks in the posts and check it out for yourself. That's the beauty of the web. all that ugliness preserved in perpetuity for all the world to see. See if you can find the post where Wayne blows a gasket re: the Bmore tradition for the national anthem. Classic Wayne...

Good post Enzo,

And by all means everyone, please check out my past post. I stand by each one. Why? I'm tired of losing and would hope that others would finally tire of the same.

As for my rant about or national anthem - guilty! I'm embarrassed, as are others who sit around me, when baltimore fans scream O during our most patriotic song, especially when men and woman are at war, dying for their country.

While they're fighting so we have the continued freedom to deface such things as patriotic anthems, I still believe it's a black eye on the city of baltimore.

More people than anyone likes to believe agrees with me. Unfortunately however, it's a tradition that won't go away soon. Sadly!

Again though Enzo, great post! You're a good fan!

I'm certainly not a newcomer, and no, I didn't always like wayne's approach. I do very much agree with him about yelling 'Oh' during our anthem though. I think its wrong and I'm glad someone is finally saying something about it, even though it won't be popular in Baltimore. The right thing isn't always the most popular.

Bill Schmedrick!!!! HAHAHAHA!

Firstly, believing that AM knows what he's doing, and agreeing with the direction of the team doesn't mean you
are against trading for Gonzalez. I do and I'm not. They're not mutually exclusive. So let's get rid of that assumption that some around here seem to be writing under.

Next, just because you think that the Orioles should be run like their fat-cat division neighbors doesn't mean that it's true. It's your opinion. Great. But let's face it, the Orioles will not ever compete dollar for dollar with the Yankees and the Red Sox. It's just not going to happen.Even Wayne seems to agree with that, as he uses the Cards as his model franchise. See Wayne, that's me paying attention.

And just because you think they should doesn't make it wrong that they won't or don't. Are they going to compete at 40m with those teams. Nope. Are they going to have to bring in some better players and pay the good ones they have? Of course. They need to take their shots at bringing in impact players to augment what they have. No argument there.

Putting an organization together, developing and judging talent, making more good moves than bad,is where a GM makes his money. Well, all except Cashman, who makes his money enticing every good player with bigger than life dollars.

I don't believe that the Orioles fortunes are make-or-break on Gonzalez. There are and will be other players.(Hanley Ramirez, anyone?). And there is more than one way to get things done.

I too am glad no one on this blog is running this team. Not one of us would know where to start!

Jim66,

Great Post!

Get Adrian Gonzalez.... get Adrain Gonzalez... get Adrain Gonzales

Horrible post Jim66!

Your website is nice.

Your website is nice.