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November 7, 2009

Orioles: Was Adam's glove really "golden?"

gold%20glove.jpgThe Rawlings Gold Glove Awards probably will be announced early next week, and there are rumblings that Adam Jones is about to become the first Orioles outfielder to win a Gold Glove since Paul Blair back in 1975.

We've made some inquiries to try and confirm that, but the best info anybody has at the moment was a MySpace entry by Adam's brother Jonathan the other day saying how excited he was about his little brother winning a "Golden Glove 4 his Baseball Team, the Baltimore Orioles."

If it's true, and I don't think that would surprise anybody who has watched him glide around the outfield the past two years, Adam would be the first Oriole to win a Gold Glove since Mike Mussina in 1999 and the first Orioles position player since Roberto Alomar and Rafael Palmeiro each won one in 1998. The Orioles are currently tied with the Yankees for the most American League Gold Gloves all time. Blair won eight of them during his reign as the league's best defensive center fielder from 1967-75.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 2:46 PM | | Comments (53)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

Congrats for Jones if it's true. It's nice to see him get some recognition but I'm surprised in that he missed quite a few games.
Good to see Torii Hunter not get a gold glove. That guy is declining and he's not a fast as before; many of these gold gloves are given out based on reputations.
Hey Peter, do you a vote on these or how are they decided?

unfortunately the GG goes to big hitters/names much of the time.

How did Markakis not beat Ichiro the pst two seasons? He had comparable E's but far more A's... but whatever, its a popularity contest.

Ichiro
A-E
9-3
8-1
11-5
5-4

Markakis
8-2
13-2
17-3
13-6

How in the world would he get one over nick markakis... please answer me that.

he has better range than markakis.... and only slightly less of an arm

Yes, Jones has the tools, without a doubt--but he needs to play with some fire, not just pop bubbles and lope around the ballpark.

I would be much more impressed if his late season slump did not happen--and Gold Gloves do not equate to winning seasons. In fact, it could reflect the fact that hitters spanked the ball to the Orioles outfield, so Jones had many chances to make catches.

Personally I think that Jones does not deserve a Gold Glove because of the many times this season that fly balls went over his head due to playing too shallow. He certainly has the ability to be a Gold Glover, but I don't think he's quite there yet in terms of his positioning on the field.

http://camdencrazies.com/2009/11/07/breaking-news-adam-jones-wins-gold-glove

According to FanGraphs, while Jones' fielding numbers were good last year at +9.9 UZR they were below average this year at -4.7 UZR (ranked 5th out of 7 qualifying AL center-fielders). The Fan Scouting Report has him as having good speed and acceleration, but not great reactions or instincts. His arm is rated as strong (and he did have a +7.3 arm component of UZR), but not that accurate. No idea how much blowing a bubble while making a catch is worth, but Jones may have led the league in that category.

He's probably a plus out there with the glove, but not amongst the premier defenders in the league. I'd rank Franklin Gutierrez and BJ Upton well ahead of him, and then there's Ichiro and Carl Crawford in the corners. I'm happy for Adam personally, but he wasn't deserving in my opinion. That doesn't mean he won't rightly add to that hardware in the future though.

On another sports topic at least there is one team in Maryland that plays hard, smart and disciplined football - Navy. Regardless of how the game ends they have played well again today.
Contrasted with the Terps that supposedly have more talent yet lacks some serious coaching and smart playing. Looks like the team has either quit several games ago or is just lacking in talent. Either way the blame falls on the coaching staff. Its costing the school lots of money.


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Whatever praise is going to Navy is welll-deserved, though it's hard to fathom how they could beath Wake Forest and Notre Dame and lose at home to Temple in between. Still, coach Ken has done a fantastic job and has come out of the shadow of Paul Johnson.

I'd be fine with AJ winning a GG but I don't necessarily think he's more deserving than Markakis, who should've had one last year.

Makes me long for the days when an Oriole winning a Gold Glove was routine.

It is not like the Gold Glove is mutually exclusive for Jones and Markakis. If they are both deserving at their positions then they should both win the award. I'd hate to think the voters are so bias as to not independently consider each position separately.

............................................................................................
Pete's reply: They should be chosen by specific position, but they aren't.

The GG is given out to outfielders as a whole and not LF, CF, and RF. SInce center-fielders are usually better fielders in general than corner outfielders, they will tend to win the GGs. Markakis might be an OK RFer, but as on overall outfielder he's probably below average.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I disagree on Markakis. I wouldn't call him below average across the board, but the GG tends to favor center fielders. If they picked the infield the same way, there would be three shortstops and a second baseman.

Adam Jones was the 38th-ranked outfielder the UZR fielding rankings for 2009:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0

Go to Page 2.

Jones finished 22nd among centerfielders in the voting of the Fielding Bible's panelists:

http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/complete-votetally.asp

I'm not sure how that translates into a Gold Glove.

Not even sure why we're discussing this at all.

Gold Glove voting has been a joke for years and lost all credibility when Palmeiro won one while playing all of 28 games at first base in 1999.

If Adam Jones wins a Gold Glove this year, it'll be nice for his trophy case, but, unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything.

Markakis is not an "OK" right fielder...he is an amazing Right fielder.

Congratulations to Adam Jones if this is true.

But not brooks is right. Gold Glove voting is a joke, this could be proven based simply on the fact that Nick Markakis does not have one. He consistently has been among the top players in outfield assists and continues to get no recognition.

One more "Gold Glove is worthless" point:

Derek Jeter won three straight Gold Gloves from 2004 to 2006.

2004 wasn't a horrible choice, but he was slightly below average in UZR, and there were plenty of guys who were WELL above average. Julio Lugo and Miguel Tejada come to mind.

But 2005 and 2006, he was HORRIBLE. Easily one of the three worst shortstops in the game.

Sticks and stones.

These three awards are given to outfielders regardless of which position they play in the outfield. I would be happy to see Adam Jones win a Gold Glove.

But Nick Markakis has deserved a Gold Glove over the past two seasons and has not gotten one.

Give Nick both the Gold Glove and the Gold Arm.

A joke is right. First baseman Palmeiro once won a gold glove for Texas as a DH!!!

Peter-
I am glad that at least 1 O is getting some respect, but this just goes to show you, if you don't have a louder personality, and you try to just play the game, you don't get noticed.
Obviously, until they give GG for EACH of the outfield positions, Nick will NEVER win one until he totally blows people away with his offense. (even though offense has nothing to do with it, wink-wink)
The O's have lacked that leader. That Jeter, Varitek, type. People say Jones is assuming that role more and more now.
Nick is quiet. And until he plays with more emotion, he will get smubbed for every award.

Adam is a very strong player but he was named to the AS Team when it should have been Nick and now he may win a Gold Glove when it should be Nick. Being unassuming and quiet is a good thing and should be recognized not punished.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think Nick gets overlooked, but not because he is a quiet guy. I think it's because of the selection process, which favors center fielders who make lots of SportsCenter Web gems.

I agree the Gold Glove award is pretty meaningless when it comes to actual defensive ability, but be wary of defensive stats as well. I love stats and use the in arguments constantly but I'm less convinced on defensive stats which seem to have a lot of statistical noise and wide variations from year to year. Daniels posts Adams' UZR number up above and I just don't see how he could see a 15+ point negative swing in UZR at age 24. A swing like that to me indicates more noise and issues with the metric than the player though I am willing to be convinced otherwise. Either way as an O's fan I hope Adam wins anyway.

WOW, There are some real DONKEYS in here !!! lmao

Nick is not winning Gold Gloves because he is too quiet? Nick needs to play with more emotion?

What a bunch of nonsense.

Did you guys ever hear of Brooks Robinson? I believe he won 16 Gold Gloves.

The Gold Glove Award is a joke and should be taken as such. Who the eff cares???

It's a popularity contest just like all of the other worthless awards in baseball. Once you are "awarded" one you have the inside track for your whole career.

And if one more illiterate putz calls it golden gloves I'm gonna puke!

Well it sounds like some of your aren't happy with Adam Jones. As a Mariner fan and Seattlite, I am sure that all of us here would love to trade you back your wonderful broken Ace of a pitcher in Erik Brokedard. We will give you an even better trade than you gave us, how does Brokedard for Jones sound straight up. We wont even ask for your former closer in Sherrill (which you guys already traded, that stills baffels me). Course if you guys are feeling generous, we will take that low quality RF off your hands for you as well, I think his name was Markasus or something like that? Maybe a change in scenery is what he needs.

As far as GG is concerned, yes it is a stupid award that does not go to who it ever should to. Watching Ichiro and Gutz play in our OF, Markakis is not the only one getting shafted for the GG.

kpak -

This must be your first time here.

This board is full of pessimists.

Anyways, the majority of us are quite happy with Jones, so we'll keep him, thanks.

Also, since you're a Mariner fan, I'd be interested to hear your first thoughts about B-Day: The day that Bill Bavasi sealed his fate as one of the worst GMs in history by trading a boatload of talent to Baltimore for Erik Bedard.

So what were you thinking that winter day, back in 2008? Were you excited about Bedard? Or did you know, as most O's fans did, that your team got shafted?

If true,

This is a joke!

While AJ is a fine young player, he is far behind the best OF's (both defensively and offensively).

He's getting far too many undeserved early accolades. His all star selection was only because they had to choose someone from the O's, all while there were a minimum of 10 other american league OFs more deserving.

Let's hope the kid earns one of these awards as he matures into a legitimate threat who can also stay on the field an entire season...

al -

Jones hit .303 with 12 homers, 47 rbi, and 55 runs prior to the All Star Break.

I'd love to see you name 10 other AL outfielders who put up better numbers in the first half.

Sorry Jones. You do not deserve it this year. With the OF GG winners not being given by position, coupled with his downtime, there is no legit way he qualifies for the award.

I'm really happy for Adam if its true, but he isn't the most deserving of the award. Markakis actually should be receiving the award too. If true, I hope that the award raises Jone's level of confidence and makes him an even better defender. Trembley really should stop him from blowing bubbles while batting and playing outfield. I see too many balls going over his head while bubbles are coming out of his mouth. The bubbles are interfering with his level of focus.

dspedden--Shall we also ask Brian Roberts to stop spitting every 10 seconds? Just think of how many more doubles per season he could hit if didn't spit so much. Would 125 doubles be out of the question?

I put a lot of stock in the Gold Glove winners when growing up in the 70's (when the O's had a huge lead in the number of winners per team since the award started in 1957) but not anymore. Several times - in occurrences that worked for and against the O's - the recipient won on reputation more than anything else. Even Brooks Robinson, great as he was, was once such a beneficiary. In 1974, Brooks won for about the 15th year in a row after making something like 18 errors, while Milwaukee's Don Money set a fielding record making only 5 errors. I think Eddie Murray won it a few times in the early 80's when he really wasn't a standout in the field. On the other hand, Cal Ripken should have won it in the 1989 'Why Not' season, but those who voted (managers) gave it to Ozzie Guillen - who never missed an opportunity to turn a routine play into a flashy one!

Barry- Actually if Brian had all of that saliva still in him he would weigh about 10 pounds more and would actually be slower.

If it is true, I think the gold glove should be given to each individual outfield position. Usually they pick 2 or 3 centerfielders and don't get me wrong I love Jones out there for us, but anyone who has payed attention to the O's will tell you Nick Markakis deserves this award far more than Jonesy.

Hey, if you're going to mention Palmeiro winning a gold glove in 1998, don't forget to remind people that he played a whopping 28 games there that season.

So, yeah, I guess AJ winning would have something in common with that. Entirely undeserved.

Hard to determine worthiness of Jones unless you know enough about the competition but one thing is certain - he's no Blair (at least not yet).

As for the Markakis fans - certainly a Golden Arm but no better than above average overall. I can remember a number of misplays on balls that a GG'r would have caught and a couple he missed that Wigginton might have caught (well, maybe not Wigginton but certainly Jay Gibbons) - mainly screw-ups between him and Roberts.

I can't believe all the people on here who are complaining about this. Hey we finally have one small thing to cheer and people still complain! Yes Nick was ripped off the last couple of years, but its great that Adam is recognized this year.

Flagtown said it best about Brooks over Don Money that year, Money deserved it by stats, but Brooks won.You didn't hear people complaining about how Brooks shouldn't have won it from Oriole fans back then!

Pete as for the main Oriole sports page on this website, is it necessary to still see the main picture and story be of the Yankees?? The sports page in my town moved on, as I wish we all would.

Um. A gold glove? You're kidding right? Saw too many balls clunk off his glove - something I never see from Tory Hunter, a truly great defenseman though slowed by age.

Pie may well be a better CF than Jones, who was not deserving of a Gold Glove.

However, he got one. so congratulations to him.

Pie may well be a better CF than Jones, who was not deserving of a Gold Glove.

However, he got one. so congratulations to him.

The Gold Gloves are a joke. Unfortunately this would actually be bad for the Orioles, as it will cost them more in arbitration.

On the plus side, Baseball Prospectus published its list of Top 11 Orioles Prospects today, with some very complimentary commentary from Kevin Goldstein. One highlight is he called Wieters/Jones/Tillman as good a top 3 under-25 players as any team in baseball has.

He ranks the O's talent at age 25 and under thus:

Wieters
Jones
Tillman
Matusz
Pie
Bell
Arrieta
Britton
Hobgood
Erbe

"How did Markakis not beat Ichiro the pst two seasons? He had comparable E's but far more A's... "

Probably has more a's because nobody dares to try to run on Ichiro anymore. If Jones actually does win a gold glove it will be a travesty. I've saw a lot of his games and Franklin Gutierez is a signicantly better centerfielder than he is.

Jones is deserving on the merits but the GG is usually a popularity contest & the voters seem to feel a vesting period is needed.

not brooks,

Please do your homework. See the players with better all around stats in the first half.

I don't want to take anything away from the guy because he's young and did have a good first half. He clearly faded in the 2nd half though and missed significant time for the 2nd yr in a row.

Good young player, although significantly overhyped to this point.

al -

Give me a break.

You're the one who said that there were "at least 10" outfielders who deserved an All Star nod more than Jones.

You do your homework and back up your claim with some numbers.

Here's a head start for you: Look up Adam Lind, Shin-Soo Choo and Johnny Damon. I remember reading ASG snub stories that mentioned those three.

Hey Pete -- a question, though one admittedly off the Jones gold glove topic. Any talk about the O's going after Ben Sheets to fill the veteran starter role? I've heard the scuttlebutt about Bedard, of course, but if that doesn't work out, might Sheets be an option? Any word on how he's progressed from his surgery? All I've seen is that he's proclaimed that he'll be "ready to go" by next year, but I'm not sure I put too much stock in the self-evaluation of a free agent. Thanks.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I have no update on his condition, but if the O's are open to Bedard on the right terms, I would think anybody in that situation would be a possibility.

Thank you to Brig Boring for pointing out the obvious. I hate it when people compare outfield assists. No one runs on Ichiro, soon no one will run on Markakis. He is starting to get Ichiro's reputation, and once that happens, no one will dare to attempt a double. Markakis has a stellar arm, but under respected.

I don't think Jones had a gold glove year, although he certainly has gold glove potential. But since he's won it this year, he'll win many more whether he deserves it or not. It's like the power of incumbency in politics: once you're in, it's hard to get you out.

The guy only played in 119 games. He played in more games in 08 and had fewer errors. I'm glad for him, just a little stunned.

Congrats to Adam Jones for winning the Gold Glove.

P.S. However, IMHO he is the 2nd best OF on the O's.

The reasons the GG can be a joke don't really apply to first time winners...... It's teh guys who win one and then win repeatedly whether they deserve it or not

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Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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