I don't see the Orioles signing anyone until after the Rule 5 draft so that they don't have to juggle the 40 man roster.

You also don't want to sign any Type A's before their old team is forced to offer or decline arbitration. No sense giving them an easy decision.

BA-ZING on the O BC comment...

You should feel young though that 55 year old Jose Contreras is still around.

The O's should make a splash for the sake of stirring the pot and making everyone else over spend. Like the Cold War. Sign Beltre for too much money and make the Yankees or Sox panic go all in on Figgins at 17 mil a year or Lackey at 19 mil a year.

That would happen, right? ha!

Peter - With respect to future moves by the Orioles, my opinion is that if the Orioles are ever going to compete in the AL East, their roster is going to have to be populated by at least a few all-stars, much like the rosters in Boston and New York, not just by average to slighly above average players. Now, these all-stars could certainly come from within, such as Wieters, Jones, Markakis, Reimold, Matusz, Tillman. Obviously, this may or may not happen, however, I see a potential opportunity to acquire possibly the second best hitter in the major leagues for less than market value (in terms of players). I know there has been a lot of speculation about teams (including the Orioles) trading for A. Gonzalez or P. Fielder. But based on the current economic problems plaguing not only the Tigers but also (unfortunately) the city of Detroit, do you think the Orioles would consider trading for Miguel Cabrera? I can think of several very good reasons to prefer him over the other two: he will be only 27 next year, he is probably the best hitter of the three (and has performed in the AL), he is already signed to a long-term contract (albeit for a lot of money - but on an annual basis he is cheaper than Tex and is a better hitter), and because of the apparent financial struggles of the Tigers he could probably be obtained for less (in terms of prospects). A trade for Cabrera seems to make a lot of sense to me. Do you think O's management would consider such a deal? Thanks.

I hear Jim Traber is available, perhaps we could sign him? In addition to playing 1st base, he also sings.

The Orioles need to sign or trade for the best players possible this offseason in order to upgrade the talent at the Major League level and compete in 2010. Striking early may work better than waiting because the players know that there is only so much money to go around.

"Stopgap" signings of fringe free agents while waiting for minor league talent to develop is a theory and nothing more. Certainly a few of the prospects the Orioles have in the system will make it to the Major Leagues, but it is impossible to predict ultimate success or failure due to injuries and other factors.

In my opinion the onus is on Andy Macphail
to change the culture of the organization over the winter by adding good Major League players any way he can. No one can predict what the free agent market will look like next year due to trades and injuries, so sitting back and rolling over for another 90 loss season is unnecessary and unacceptable.

Reading the comments from some of the fans amazes me. Hello, the Orioles have lost 12 years in a row. And 13 or even 14 is OK with you as long as we stay the course and "rebuild" correctly? Some of you appear to be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome after all of the losing and now the "rebuilding" propaganda coming out of the warehouse.

I say we can keep rebuilding but we can also start winning. Spend the money. Make the trades.

It is not a zero sum game.

Jim Traber also holds my own personal record for worst ever slide into 2B. It was a head first belly flop where he dove about two feet too short, hit his belly, and then bounced into and on top of 2B. Took him a little while to stand back up.

Dave -

To get Miguel Cabrera (and Salary Dump-trelle Willis), the Tigers traded two first round picks in Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller (#10 and #6 overall) along with Burke Badenhop and three other mid 20's prospects.

As Cabrera is still only 26 years old (27 in April) and has continued to rake since leaving Florida, my guess is that it would cost any team at least that same amount of talent to trade for him now. The only reason he may be moved for a bit less is because of his hefty contract.

So...

Do we want to wave goodbye to Brian Matusz and Nolan Reimold to get Cabrera? I know I'm not too keen on that plan.

I NEED SOME NEWS NOW!!!! I need my fix right now Schmuck! everyday I look at the same 5 or so, solid, sites for updates and am getting real tired of hearing what the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Cardinals, Angels and Cubs are doing.

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Pete's reply: I feel your pain. Should I make something up?

Orioles sign no marquee free agents, declare 2010 a re-building year.

not brooks - I am in agreement with you about not giving up a top notch package (like the one you mentioned, or the one the O's got from the Mariners for Bedard) to get Cabrera. However, based on the fact that his position and bat type (right-handed power hitter) are exactly what the O's need, I am simply hoping that the front office is at least considering the trade and trying to pull it off at less than what you described (market value). Only under those conditions would I do something.

not brooks - I guess the main reason I bring up a potential Cabrera trade is my suspicion that the financial strength of the Tigers is much worse than many people believe - which is why we are hearing about them wanting to trade just about any of their "tradeable" assets. I think Cabrera may be obtained for substantially less than market value (in terms of players) if the receiving team is willing to take on the entire remaining contract.

This year's big FA signing will be:

Mark Hendrickson!!!!

The unfortunate thing about this team is that depth in the Majors only exists in the outfield. And while the minor league system is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was a few years back, the real depth there only exists at the lower levels. Since Wieters, Reimold, Bergesen, Matusz and Tillman graduated to the majors, the only high end prospects that are even close to ready are Josh Bell and Jake Arrieta, and they both play positions that are already extremely weak at the big league level.

My point is that, while it would be great to trade for an Adrian Gonzalez or a Roy Halladay, this team, as it stands, doesn't really have the pieces to make such a trade without giving up major league talent.

If we really want this team to be able to compete year in and year out, the Markakis/Jones/Wieters/Reimold/Matusz/Tillman/Bergesen core needs to stick together. I really think that 2010 can be a solid year if Guthrie rebounds and our "big three" young starters each make significant progress. And then, after the 2010 season, when the big league nucleus has made some strides and the minor league depth is stronger and the team knows more about what some of the upper level prospects can do, that's when they make the big splash in a trade for a Prince Fielder and a contract for a Josh Beckett.

are we really going after marquee players? we would need about 4 and some depth down in the minors to forstall the end of year collapse. i think we try and sign two B level pitchers to help the young guys grown and a B level 1st or 3rd baseman and just have another year of learning and frustration.
if they think we could really compete they have to overpay for a quality free agent to signal to the other free agents that we are serious. i can't see either Angelos or our cautious and rational GM doing that.

Fewer. Fewer than three business day.

Count me in for signing Troy Glaus and Erik Bedard.

Dave -

I don't think things in Detroit are as bad as the rumor mongers are claiming. Mike Ilitch (CEO of Little Cesar's Pizza) has a ton of money that has nothing to do with Detroit's economy.

I'm sure they'd love some more payroll flexibility going into 2010, but they've only got two big arbitration raises coming (for Justin Verlander and Edwin Jackson) and after 2010, they're going to drop about $50M in payroll when Magglio Ordonez, Jeremy Bonderman, Dontrelle Willis and Nate Robertson become free agents.

yeah, trade for Miguel Cabrera if possible. Then they could sign Huff, a lefty, to play third. (or Melvin Mora cheap, cuz if they have Cabrera, they can sacrifice offense for stellar d.)

But i think a cheaper option would be Delgado at first and Tejada at third.

Funny you mentioned birth certificates Pete. I just granted your wish on your last post.

I don't have a problem with a pitching prospect going with Reimold to get us a long term "real" power bat. I still think Reimold will face issues at the plate as he recovers from his achilles anyway. If it takes a top flight pitcher, I'd rather it be one of the righties. There's still no guarantee any of them will be any good. Rodrigo Lopez and DCab anyone??

Buy low and sell high.

James -

Nice thought, but, unfortunately, it's impossible to "buy low" on Miguel Cabrera.

Honestly, we are in between a rock (impatience and frustration) and a hard place (that unless our youngsters breakout next year - there aren't enough stud players available via trade or free agency to win now). Do we really want to go back to Dec. 2003 when we signed Tejada? Other than make a splash, it wasn't enough to push us over the top. We could trade our future away, but as another poster said, we need many all-stars on this team to compete and not just one. Therefore, the only way we achieve that is if our youngersters develop and become the all-star talents we are hoping. Unfortunately, the only answer right now is to continue with MacPhail's plan. Let's keep looking at the future, and focus on NFL football for the next 2 months. At least we are past the days of going through a rebuilding process with a bunch of 30 year olds like before MacPhail got here.

Not sure where I fall on the Miguel Cabrera discussion in this thread. For starters, there is no buying low with this guy. There are 10-15 other teams that would pounce on him were he to be made available at anything less than market value.

That being said, I don't have an issue trading Reimold, as I think Pie can be a viable major league left fielder at a cheap price for the next few years. Maybe not as good as Reimold, but not too much of a dropoff. Trading Matusz or Tillman would absolutely undermine everything we are trying to do, but I agree that one of them would have to go in order to get Cabrera. However, if we can sign a free agent pitcher that will be effective for a few years, trading one of the big two pitchers might be something to consider. We'd still have one of Matusz or Tillman, Bergesen, Hernandez (who I think can be a quality 3rd/4th starter over time), Arrietta, Erbe and a host of other starters in AA or AAA that are legitimate prospects. Throw in an improved Guthrie, and the rotation can still be pretty solid. And, adding a bat like Cabrera pushes the O's offense into the top 5 in the AL.

the Os should have 3 untouchables: Wieters, Markakis and Matusz. outside of them, kick the tires on teams that maybe in financial stress as Dave suggested. Miguel Cabrera is a STUD (duh) and even if it cost a bunch, if you can get him, you go get him especially since he's already got a multi year deal. Winning the AL East is about blunt force trauma to the head and he brings a sledgehammer. You put him at first (BOOM! You have the best cleaunp hitter in the division) and one of the OK 3b in FA on the field, a nice lineup would emerge.

To be honest, if Matusz can get the Orioles involved in a trade that fills a dire need, they should pull the trigger. Tillman is a better pitcher now and will be. Matusz is, at best, going to be Steve Avery... and you don't pass on trading Steve Avery for a legitimate player.

The Orioles should absolutely go to Erik Bedard and say, come home. Let's see if we can't get you back on track.

And the Orioles should simply refuse to sign any free agent over the age of 32. And only sign a free agent over the age of 30 to a 2 or 3 year contract at longest (and front-loaded at that).

It's a shame you chose to pepper your usually clever writing with an inane comment about Obama's birth certificate. These "birther" nuts (which I guess you may be) don't need more encouragement from a Sun sports columnist to spread flat out lies.

Ryan -

Where did the Avery/Matusz comparison come from? The fact that they're both 6'4" lefties?

If Matusz is similar to Avery, he's Avery with a better K/9 and K/BB.

Either way, before Avery started to go downhill, he put up a 3.17 ERA in 105 starts over three seasons with the Braves. And if he had better walk and strikeout ratios (Matusz-esque ratios, to be exact) his career probably would have been on par with the other Braves pitchers from the 90's.

And it would be amazing if you're right about Tillman being better than Matusz, because Matusz was pretty incredible in his first professional season.

The birth certificate comment was unfortunate. In an age where poltical cooperation is nearly extinct, comments of that sort are nothing but fuel to the fire of ugliness and hatred. You're better than that, at least I hope so.

Ryan,

Please don't pretend to know something about player development. You contradict every scouting report I've heard on Brian Matusz. You should at least provide some facts as to why you disagree with those who have followed, analyzed, and examined him professionally. You think he isn't legitimate? Time will tell, but there's nothing to suggest what you say.

You think Steve Avery wasn't legitimate? He had three good seasons at the beginning of his career (2 were great!) before he got injured. It wasn't an injury that anyone could predict, although the Orioles are handling Matusz with more care than pitchers of the early 90's generally were.

Jonathan -

Totally forgot about Avery's injury. All I could ever find out about it was that he injured some muscle under his armpit.

Anyone know anything specific about what muscle it was or anything like that?

It's too early for the Orioles to do anything! The other teams haven't put out their garbage yet (Adam Eaton). and the Chicago Cubs pipeline hasn't decided what trash to throw McPhail's way (Rich Hill) Don't worry when it is scavenging time, McPhail will be there with his shovel

PETE,

I would definetly go for Cabrerra. The stats are overwhelmimg: 300+ lifetime avg, 100+ rbi per year, 30+ hr per year, nearly .400 obp, Right handed bat, 3rd base. What's not to like. Rumors are out there that he could be traded to trim Payroll. Signed thru 2015 at 20 mil/per year. pricey but affordable with the payroll projected at 45 mil next year. Trade Bell, Scott, and pacakage of either Tillman+ Erbe, or Arrietta +Britton. We keep the 2 not traded for near-future arms. Sign one quality pitcher later in FA. Cabrerra makes Nick, Jonesy, Matt and Nolan better hitters by filling the middle with, right handed, big time threat.

FANSINCE65 -

Cabrera doesn't play third base any more.

I'd like to see Jorge Cantu with an Oriole helmet cut just right for him, tilted low and menacing.

I can do with Cantu.

Buy low was a relative term in this case. To get him before his domestic issues and the economy hurting in Detroit more than anywhere would have taken us (or any team) blowing the doors off to even get that trade discussion off the ground.

I personally think they have to unload him and not many teams have the pieces we have to make it happen. I'm not saying we have to do it, but it's an interesting idea and I do worry that we're going to be stuck with more prospects than ballplayers at some point if everyone is always "untouchable."

Pete,

1) No to Bedard...he's a jerk.

2) No to Cabrera...he got drunk and thrown in jail in the middle of the last weekend of the season when his team was in a race for the AL Central pennant.

3) At least Roch is consitutioanlly eligible to be President of the United States which is more than I can say for "President" Obama.

4) Sign Adrian Beltre and trade for Adrian Gonzalez and we'll let Barrack off the hook until November 2012.

Barry - I too can do with Cantu. Wonder what it would take to make that happen...

James - I'm not sure things are so bad in Detroit. As I said in a previous post, I'm sure they'd love some flex for 2010, but if they can't move anyone, they're dropping $50M worth of bad contracts after the season.

Doug - You're a model American.

PLEASE don't be foolish and give away Matusz for Cabrera, you will regret that move for a multitude of years to come, when Cabrera fades and Matusz blossoms into a #1 or #2 starter for several years.

I like Jorge Cantu, but the Marlins don't make bad trades, as I've never seen a team unload so much talent and within a year or two are back fighting for a wild card so the O's will have to give up someone of value unless the old M's GM is an advisor in FL.

I am curious why so many people would like Huff back? In 2008, he had one of the all time great years for a DH, but in 07 and 09, he pretty much was just an OK player. If we are going for short term solutions, role the dice on someone who hasn't played here before like Jermaine Dye, Jim Thome or Carlos Delgado. After last year, very few guys on the roster should be guaranteed anything so whether it's getting a veteran to buy time for a prospect or taking a shot on a guy who had a bad year, do it because the more this team learns how to win, the closer they will become to being a contender even if that's a couple years away, but I don't want the losing mentality to hit the young guys.

The Tigers are definitely looking to unload some payroll as even though Illich is rich, he's not stupid. Fans aren't coming to games like before, which isn't surprising in a city where the unemployment rate is over 25%!
He has to cut some costs and rumour has it, he's seriously looking at trading Cabrera and Edwin Jackson. Both of those players would help us as Cabrera can play first or even 3B; Jackson is a solid starter.
I guess it all depends what Detroit would want in return. Dombroski is not a fool so I'm sure he'd want a couple of MLB-ready players like Luke Scott who killed them last year, a reliever like Johnson and at least one bona-fide prospect like Tillman and a couple of other bodies. I ;m thinking they could do better elsewhere but who knows?
Cabrera may have worn out his welcome with his ill-timed 'bender' and Detroit can afford to lose a guy like Jackson because they have lots of starters. Their payroll has climbed well over 100 mill so they are looking to deal; the problem is that the O's don't have a lot of excess relievers and established, cheap players or decent position players in the minors that would attract enough interest.

James C,

Great observation as usual. The posters are playing fantasy baseball for Andy Macphail while Macphail himself will be looking for bargains as he continues to string out the "rebuilding' process. This is not an expansion team and Angelos has plenty of money. As far as who is available, isn't that why Macphail was hired? Let's not outline and pre frame excuses for him if he comes up empty this winter. As Dan Ackroyd said in Ghost Busters" In the private sector they expect results". And I do.

If I am wrong about this I will say so on this site, but I predict that Andy Macphail will acquire a few fringe free agent prospects to placate the true believers and continue to put off major transactions, either trades or signings until the time is right, by his defintion.

And no, spending copious amounts of money is not how we got here in the first place. That Urban legend needs to die. Gross micromanagement and incompetence by Peter Angelos is how we got here in the first place.

The Orioles need to make a splash this winter and play to win in 2010, not 2011, or 2012. No player, no trade, no transaction should be off the table at this point..Tomorrow may never come. The future is now.

Todd -

You're absolutely right about the Marlins, but I'd expect Cantu could be had for a solid pitching prospect (Brandon Erbe, Zach Britton) and a younger, high ceiling guy (Xavier Avery, L.J. Hoes).

With the state of the organization, maybe it makes more sense for the O's to forget about Adrian Gonzalez and Prince Fielder and go after less of a name for first base. Past Cantu, I'm thinking...

- Nick Swisher: According to NY writers, he's available. Better defense at first than in the outfield. Switch hitter with power. Not sure if the Yanks would trade in division...

- Billy Butler: Right-handed, but may be better suited to DH. Could be available, but who knows what the Royals are doing.

And a couple of others who are worth looking at:

- Ryan Garko: 29 on Opening Day. Could be cheap. Slugged .483 in his first full season in Cleveland.

- Daric Barton: Turned 23 in August. Disaster in his first full season in Oakland in 2008, but posted a respectable .269/.372.413 line in limited action last season. .863 OPS in 2300+ minor league at bats.

not brooks - " Cabrerra no longer plays 3rd"

Mea culpa. I was remembering from his Marlins days. In that case, you keep Bell and trade Snyder or Waring. When you can, you have to take the big shot and trade a promising group of maybe's for a solid ( 5 year ) track record. Cabrerra also had a incident with a DUI and a domestic disturbance and this might encourage a trade out of Detroit.

Hey, Schmucker, lay off the O man. He's having a hard enough time, what with having to bow to all those Asian emporers and everything.

Pete, you have a better chance of seeing Roch's U.S. birth certificate than Obama's because Roch's actually exists.

Even Latin American ballplayers trying to reinvent their age eventually have their real birth certificates uncovered; most of the time by investigative journalists.

If sportswriters can find authentic birth certificates in a banana republic city like San Pedro de Macoris, why hasn't anyone, including Obama, been able to produce his? Someone ought to do a little snooping around in Kenya....

You can't even get a DoD job as a janitor without a U.S. birth certificate. How can you be president without one?

Pete,

You may be a Republican, but this is a sports blog, your birth certificate slight was completely uncalled for. Trust me, you wouldn't be talking about Bush this way, even though he was quite possibly the most unfit man ever to sit in the Oval Office.

Please, get off your high horse and keep the political garbage out of the blog. Thanks.

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Pete's reply: My high horse? I didn't say a word about Obama or his fitness. I made a joke. I've made many a joke about Bush and Palin and whoever. You just didn't notice because you agreed with them. Lighten up a little bit.

Get off it, easywriter. I used to work at the Star-Bulletin. I've seen the paper that announced his birth. Logic says there is no reason for that to exist if it wasn't for real. And what would a birth certificate prove anyway? If there was one brought forward, you'd call it a fake. Your ridiculous argument is based on pointless hatred and has no business on a message board about the O's.

Now that that's off my chest...

The Hinkley pick-up is a solid, low-risk move that at won't attract any hype (though haters may complain about this type of deal being all Andy is gonna do), but given his age and brief history, he has some upside. Maybe it turns out he's a AAAA guy, but that won't be known til spring training. And even if that's the case, you've gotten a good situational lefty for Norfolk.

Why the snide remark about
president Obama's birth certificate?

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Pete's reply: To paraphrase Sir Edmund Hillary, sir, "because it was there."

Isn't there enough Obama talk elsewhere in the world and on the internet, folks? We don't have to have the discussion here, too, do we?

Pete made a little joke, no big deal...

A little joke? yes.
snide and smug? yes
Pandering to the idiot base? yes
uncalled for? absolutely

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: And you totally missing the point...priceless.

Guys, Pete's joke was directed at Roch, not at Obama.

Talk about getting some panties in a bunch.

The priceless comment Pete, was, well priceless heheh. Well played sir.

Jonathan / Not Brooks:

Pretty sure that Steve Avery's injury was a strained oblique :-)

Pete,

Some people travel through life with their shorts in a knot looking to be offended at the slightest anecdote. They are, in effect, self appointed and self important thought police.

I'm not a Republican but I thought it was funny. You should be on the stage. And by the way, the stage leaves in 5 minutes. Ha Ha{Don't be offended it is a joke. Love ya.}

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.These fans sit around all day hoping and praying that something major is going to happen,What Ashame Pete.Boston is going to sign Holliday in the next day or so, which will be just one of many major moves that they will make.I only ask when are the fans of this town going to wake up to the fact that there aren't going to be any major acquistions and that boston and new york will always keep the orioles from doing nothing but pick up some loose crumbs that fall from the table.

Beltre at 3rd..Blalock at 1st...Wagner to close...and I'll take my chances with that team next year, and buy tickets to watch!!!!!!

Thanks Gil. I think your right that rushing in to more bad moves will basically put us back to 1998/99 mode.

The more I think about it the more I see nothing really happening this winter. Unless there is a trade that shows some backbone and some faith that the O's scouts know more about the talent we actually have than those outside the organization. I worry there is too much of "this kid has it boss" because everyone wants to feel good about these young guys. If you can get a sure thing for some of them, then be a man and do it.

I also think Detroit is that bad off. They have no sponsor for the huge fountain in center field and they couldn't even sell out games down the stretch when Minnesota was chasing them down in October. It's not just the organization either. The $50m in contracts the teams saves doesn´t mean that everyone in one of the hardest hit cities in terms of layoffs magically gets their job back in 2010.

Missed you and your holiday spirit Bob.

tigers want to have a fire sale because their attendance will be down next year

Red wings have attendance issues,so Tigers GM was told to drop salary,Verlander and Porcello are only untouchables.Cabrera can be had but after this year his salary is 25 mill per year for 5 years atlease.He has really improved at first base but might have drinking problem busted twice during season.

I've seen Miguel Cabrera play a lot when he was in FL and he is a monster at the plate plus like Gary just said, he's improved at 1B. I think if there is even a remote chance that you can get him without giving up any of the top 3 prospects, you do it because the O's can afford him.

I don't know how much Brandon Inge makes, but if the Tigers are dumping salary or rebuilding, I would go after him. He would be perfect at 3B for the O's.

I dont think I could continue reading your stuff, If I found out you are one of those "birther,and/or "teabagger" CRACKPOTS! Stick to SPORTS SHMUCK!

In order for the O's to become competitive in the AL East, they need to focus on the free agents they intend to make an offer and offer them premium dollars. If the Angels are offering the player 8 mil per year and the O's feel that the player is an important cog to their team, they need to offer 10 mil per year. They need to tag a few top players and reel them in with their current young players

I came upon this thread late (12/1) and can't believe all the fuss about the birth certificate comment. I'm a huge Obama supporter and didn't for a moment take Schmuck's comment as a slur. Just a super-gentle throwaway joke about a rival/friend. Jeez, people!