I wish we could get off Trembly. He does the best he can with what he's got and what he's got is full of big holes in a tough division. The time to evaluate him is when he has enough horses. Which may or may not be 2010

We get so much conspiracy chat around here I'd just prefer it you didn't start it, with all due respect.

Jumping ahead of the Andy-haters...what the heck would you done to have the Os ahead of the schedule they are on now? Yep, its slow..it could get slower if they go out and spend 100 million on this group of free agents. After the Yankees (Matt H if he wants to play in the AL), and Boston (lackey and bay) take what they want, there's gonna be slim pickins. I believe Andy is wrong to not try to package youngsters to get Fielder or Gonzales. And I'm talking a package of players that would actually get someoone to look, not a 5 player group headed by Luke Scott. Boston seems to have a good system where they put together a group of 7 or so players throughout their system that they'll let teams pick from in a trade. You pick one, they pull one or you can have this P OR these 2, etc. What about a 7 player pool of Reimold, Jones, Scott, Arrieta, Jim Johnson, Patton, and a A or AA pitcher. I don't if there's enough in there to get a bona-fide clean up hitter but it can't hurt to ask. Throw Josh Bell in there and ask the Cubs for Aramis Ramirez. Or Derek Bell. Nope, its not airtight, but its a lot closer to realistic than some of the deals proposed. Check out some of the productive hitters with big contracts they maybe available because of economics (Cabrera in Det?)

Did the Os new bench coach ever play in New Orleans? WHO DATZ?

cush

Yeah cush, let's offer 3 players off our ML roster and some prospects for a power hitting 1st basemen. Then we only have to fill 4 more spots.

No thanks. Reimold, Jones, Johnson, Bell nor Arrieta are going anywhere in a package.

The first 4 will not be traded and I highly doubt Arrieta would be either. GOOD.

Cush, that's got to be the craziest idea I've ever seen. You've rebuilt the outfield with 3 potential all-stars, 2 of which are in your trade proposal. Secondly, you've established stability everywhere around the team except for a few key veteran pitchers, and a corner infielder, but with the way Bell is tearing it up right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see him become the everyday third baseman. Now, this team might be young, but it's potential for growth is huge. Reworking the farm system is the best thing MacPhail could've done to this point, because this team will be good in 1 to 2 years, and we won't need one guy like Fielder to make us that way. The O's will be like the Detroit Tigers and Tampa Bay Rays, and I would much rather see them do it this way than restock with one or two big players and lose the slew of talent that they already have developed.

When I heard that Jeff Datz was named the new Orioles bench coach today, my optimism for the 2010 season jumped out the window and splattered itself on the pavement. He was one of Eric Wedge's coaches who presided over the Indians' ALCS choke job in 2007. Are bench coaches really necessary? What purposes do they serve other than be the manager's human Snuggie?

Melvin? See ya later. He'll make some nanny happy in his new city--with 6 babies to care for. I hope he pays well.

Moeller? Second string backstops are available at bargain prices, like MLB minimums; but Moeller had some hot streaks.

Bench coach? Who cares.

Mora is still a Type B free agent. The O's need to offer him arbitration if, for no other reason, to be assured of a 2nd round draft pick if he signs elsewhere. If Mora were to accept arbitration, I doubt he'd be terribly expensive.

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Pete's reply: If the O's offered Melvin arbitration, he almost certainly would accept it, so they wouldn't be getting a draft choice either way. And, in arbitration, he still would get way too much money.

Josh, thats not how it works. He already had an option year built into his contract so they had to pick it up or let him go. Can go to arbitration with him in an option year.

I'm a little disappointed with Moeller's release. It seemed like he had a good relationship with the younger pitchers the few times I saw him in Baltimore and Norfolk. $850,000 can't be that much of a savings over the major league minimum. I understand his numbers weren't that great but we are talking about a back-up.

Datz, schmatz. I know nothing about him and little about what a bench coach does. Coming from Cleveland doesn't impress me.

Unrelated ... Is anyone in Cleveland complaining about the stupid trade of Cliff Lee? I'm not necessarily talking about actually trading him. I'm more thinking they were offered a much better return from LA (not Anaheim posing as LA).

Semi-related ... The Dodgers still have some blue chip players -- a few ready to blossom. They might still be a good fit for a trading partner for the O's. Of course, the O's will probably have to dangle somebody that is good. I doubt the Dodgers will fall for a Pedro Martínez / Delino DeShields trade again ... but who knows? Maybe.

Josh, I understand your thinking with Mora and gave it a lot of thought. I decided to disagree with you.

(1) Arbitration involves two submitted salaries -- one by the player, one by the club. The O's' offer would probably be significantly lower than Mora's offer. If the O's "win," Mora could become Mr. Sourpuss again.

(2) Offering arbitration would send a signal to any player who might be an upgrade at 3B to sign elsewhere.

(3) The Orioles have certainly come up short in sending any signals that 2009 ended with an unacceptable thud. (Please, I'm talking since the All-Star break, not the final week or whatever.) Dismissing a starting player is at least something of a signal.

(4) Strange as it may sound, Mora (like Sherrill) is probably worth more to the Orioles than to most other teams. Therefore, I'm not so confident he would sign elsewhere.

I like your thinking -- especially since MLB doesn't allow the trading of draft picks (personal pet peeve given there's no salary cap and there's little chance of there ever being one).

I just don't think Mora is the right player to fulfill that strategy. Consider, if the Orioles had at least two winning seasons during Mora's tenure here, do you think he would have been good enough to have stayed here? I don't.

Ooops, didn't read the article on Mora. Didn't know he had a club option. Oh well, that's money well-saved then. Thanks, D.

What do I think?
I think Trembley's choice as a coach is totally up to him.
Even if the guy being considered has the greatest credentials and resume possible, he and Dave must still blend and work well together regarding communicating and imparting information as well as disciplinary issues.

As for packaging a bunch of young Oriole players to get one or two established players like Lackey or Gonzales, why would we want to do that?
That's exactly the kind of one-sided deal that has enriched the Orioles over the last couple of seasons.... only WE were the ones acquiring the multiple players. I think we should keep it that way.
When you put all your eggs in one basket, you never come out ahead.
Besides.... Lackey doesn't fit in on this club personality-wise. Holliday isis already in his early thirties. And Fielder is one heck of a hitter.... but I give him 5 years or less before his physique begins taking it's toll on his performance as a hitter as well as making him a liability at first base.
I think Josh Bell steps in at third base before 2010 is over.
I think we found a sleeping giant in Michael Aubrey at first base. He fields his position as well as any first baseman we've ever had and he's built like Lou Gherig. This guy (if given a fair chance) is going to be for us what Carlos Pena turned out to be for the Rays year before last.... a lot of homers and RBI's.
We should not trade any "group" of players to get one single player.... ever.
Give me a healthy Brad Bergesen and Jeremy Guthrie this spring and I really believe these two guys can lead the staff.

Pete, I think it was pretty obvious the way the Orioles paid honor to Melvin at the end of the season that that was supposed to be his last hurrah of sorts with the team.

Much as I was ragging yesterday about the organizational black hole at "An Evening with Brooks," in fairness I have to say that I thought they showed a lot class in what they did for Mora. It was like they were saying, "Melvin, you won't be coming back next year, but we couldn't you go without showing our appreciation for what you've meant to this franchise." Kudos to Peter Angelos and the front office.

Moeller is worth bringing back, but maybe the O's would consider an upgrade as backup catcher, such as Jason Varitek, who ended the season as a second stringer behind Victor Martinez and who may have played his last game in a Red Sox uniform.

Varitek would bring a bigger bat to the bench and have a wealth of wisdom to impart to his fellow Georgia Tech alum Matt Wieters, including a thorough knowledge of of the AL East and the handling of pitching staffs.

As far as the selection of Datz goes, maybe Wieters was on the Orioles mind for that, too (the young man has to be in mind a lot these days). Perhaps Datz, who caught as a player, has the reputation of being a good tutor of backstops. Something had to distinguish hm from the other 39 guys seeking the job and maybe that's it.

Game Two observations: Great pitching so far from both starters. Burnett made a huge strikeout of Howard in the third....Martinez has proven that he's made a successful transition from power arm to a finesse pitcher. He's thrown some great change ups tonight. This further confirms that MacPhail was wrong this spring when he said Pedro could not help the O's (of course, he can be excused a bit given mediocre in 2008)....Stairs looks like the current version of John Kruk (as in someone who would fit right in on a Millar-managed softball team--LOL).....Molina made a tremendous throw to pick off Werth, who would be the power right-handed back the O's need, had he not been traded to Toronto in one of the worst trades in club history....Teixeira really got into an off-speed pitch for a big homer. New York really needs his bat to wake up....Reality Check: The O's have had 12 straight losing seasons. The Yankees? Seventeen straight winning seasons.

If Datz is the best bench coach available, fine. But to me, hiring a former manager with a winning track record would be more appealing to a young team and free agent signees than a no-name guy from Cleveland. And if anyone in the organzation sees that type of bench coach as a threat, then you don't believe in the manager.

I don't know anything about Datz, but Pete, you did think the O's would get someone with a catching background. He worked under two good managers in Cleveland so if DT likes the guy, he's the right guy because there has to be a good relationship, as all I've heard since Mills was hired in Houston, is how close he and Tito were in Boston so if the comfort level is there, I think it's a good move.

Pete, are you a little surprised about the O's not picking up the option on Chad Moeller? I really thought they were going to since he seemed like such a good fit with the club and as a mentor to Matt. I don't know the going rate for a back up catcher, but 850 seems very reasonable, but maybe they will go after Pudge for the 4th time, as it can't be winter in Birdland without the O's making a run at Pudge.

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Pete's reply: I think the Moeller thing was just a roster shuffle and believe he will be back.

Birdland Todd,

Don't fret over Moeller. He'll figures to be back. They needed the spot on the 40 man roster to protect a rookie from the Rule V draft. They probably have a deal in place and will sign it after the draft. But, if they can get an upgrade like Pudge for a fair salary, it makes senses too.

Pete, would you take Pedro as a starter/tutor for a year? He's had a pretty amazing season given that he's lost so much on his fastball. Not that he'd sign with an "also-ran" but he knows how to pitch.

Trembley should and will be judged on the progression or regression of the club. A Bob Melvin may be a manager in waiting type, but that person may not be the ideal guy as a new manager if he can take a bench coach job and wait a year for a rare top job in baseball. I have a curiosity question. Over say the past 10 years, I've been told that the team that has been shut out the least during the season compared to their World Serie foe usually wins it all. Any credence to that stat? Yankees shut out 5 times this year! What about the Phils?

Sorry Pete but I just can't get excited either way about who the bench coach is. My reaction to the announcement was a big, "whatever."
No surprise in Mora not being picked up, the shock would have been if they did bring him back. Andy will find a stop-gap 3b until Bell is ready to take over.
Hopefully a decent veteran pitcher can found to help stabilize the rotation, and maybe some BP help, probably another stop-gap placeholder at 1b until someone (Snyder?) steps up to fill that hole. The O's are too far away from really being competitive to waste a lot of money on a FA market that doesn't have the long-term pieces they need. Hopefully with a few placeholders and some improvements from the rookies, they can approach .500 next year, but that's all we can realistically hope for.

Bye, Melvin. No stop sign from the coach this time, you can run all the way home. Melvin was a steady player for some very bad O's teams, but I think this is an important step in cleaning out the culture of losing in that clubhouse. We need new blood. And a power hitter, middle relief, one or two dependable starters, a first baseman, and for the kids to start breaking out like Adam Jones.

Bench coach? Why do teams need bench coaches? How many coaches does a manager need? Did Earl Weaver have a bench coach?

To say McPhail was wrong about Pedro Martinez not being able to help the Orioles based on the fact that he has pitched wekk for the Phillies is like assuming that a fish could make it's way upon dry land because it swims well in water.
Pedro's attitude was all wrong for the Orioles. He is and always has been a self-centered player who has held out more than once not only to play on a winning team.... but to play for an organization by whom he felt comforable being babied.
I also think if I hear the name "Pudge" one more time before the name "Rodriguez", I will surely throw up.
There was only one "Pudge" and his name was FISK.
To have attached that nickname to himself and to have had all the baseball nation condone it has been like bestowing Barry Bonds with the nickname "Babe".
Rodriguez indulged in anabolic steroids as much as anyone on that Texas team and was never much of a handler of pitchers.... which is a big reason why the Ranger staffs sucked so much during his time there.
You people who would turn your back on a truly great player like Rafael Palmeiro because of a misunderstanding and then yearn to see a guy like Ivan Rodriguez in a hallowed Oriole uniform make me sick.
Chad Moeller is the best suited catcher for the Oriole bench bar none.
If Varitek wanted to remain in a backup role for a paycut, why wouldn't he simply stay in Boston ?

Interesting comment the other day about Angelos having vetoed the Duquette/Flanagan deal that would have sent Brian Roberts to Atlanta for Adam LaRoche and Brian Giles and how Giles is now out of baseball and LaRoche's production has sharply fallen off, while Roberts continues to be one of the premier leadoff hitters in baseball as well as one of it's top defensive second basemen.
Well guess what... ?
That deal would have also sent Eric Bedard to Atlanta, therefore eliminating the subsequent Oriole acquisitions of Adam Jones, Kam Micholio, Chris Tillman, and George Sherrill, and later, Josh Bell.
Not trying to portray Angelos as Nostradamus, but give credit where it's due.... in this particular instance, his veto was quite significant.

Bear the Birdfan, don't know where you heard Bedard was to be included in that Roberts-to-Atlanta trade. I don't recall ever hearing Bedard associated with that deal.

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Pete's reply: He wasn't.

Bear, here is the blurb about the trade with the Braves. No Bedard!!

"According to several industry sources, the Baltimore Orioles have had serious discussions about a deal that would send second baseman Brian Roberts and pitching prospect Hayden Penn to the Atlanta Braves for power-hitting first baseman Adam LaRoche and second baseman Marcus Giles."

Datz can say he played in the Major Leagues (7 games with the Tigers in 1989) and threw out the only guy who tried to steal on him.

Datz sumptin.

"I think we found a sleeping giant in Michael Aubrey at first base. He fields his position as well as any first baseman we've ever had and he's built like Lou Gherig. This guy (if given a fair chance) is going to be for us what Carlos Pena turned out to be for the Rays year before last.... a lot of homers and RBI's."

Sorry, but this is absolutely hilarious.

First off, who cares if he's "built like Lou Gehrig"? There are probably millions of men in the world that are built like Lou Gehrig, but that doesn't mean that they're any good at baseball.

Second, Aubrey is going to turn out like Carlos Pena? A lot of homers and rbi? What makes you think that? His career highs in the minors? 10 homers and 60 rbi in A+ in 2004? How about his .467 minor league slugging %?

Come on people. This Michael Aubrey crap is more ridiculous than EC claiming that Derek Jeter is a good defensive shortstop.

Hi Pete,

Why is it a do or die year for Trembley if the Orioles are planning to lose again in 2010?
How can he be held accountable when the organization is already setting low expectations?

Oh, I'm sure he will get fired by Macphail when the Orioles lose 90 games again, or maybe even before. After all, SOMEBODY will have to be held accountable for the 13th losing season in a row, still lower attendance and out of the pennant race by the 4th of July.

Certainly it won't be Macphail who has all the time in the world to dither and collect "prospects" and no time frame for winning. Andy has the perfect job right now.

Now, how can I say they are planning to lose in again in 2010? Have you heard anyone in the Organization from Angelos on down say that they expect to have a winning season in 2010? If you are not planning to win then you expect to lose.

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Pete's reply: I don't think they are planning to lose. I just don't know if they can avoid it. Andy said Dave would be judged this year on wins and losses, so I assume he'll try to set things up so Dave has a chance to do some winning.

Someone tell Cush that Derek Bell is no longer in baseball. What an idiot. Maybe we can trade Jones, Reimold and Wieters for Reggie Jackson or Mark McGuire, I hear they are available

Christian -

Considering cush was talking about dealing with the Cubs, it's sage to assume he was talking about Derek Lee.

Don't be a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk.

Aubrey would have been a good bench guy in the days when you had deeper benches and could carry a guy to be a defensive replacement at first and a PH. But it's hard to see how he fits now given his limited power.

Gil -

Have you heard ANYTHING about MacPhail's offseason plans?

Until we hear something from the warehouse, or see what kind of moves are made, we fans can't say anything about what the plan is for next season.

Ken -

Pedro threw nine starts in the regular season. His first didn't come until August.

He put up a 3.63 ERA in the National League. Four of his nine starts came against mediocre offenses (Mets twice, D-Backs, Nats).

Also, five of his nine starts lasted five innings or less. Four of those five lasted four innings or less. In his two starts, he threw 56 pitches in three innings and 84 pitches in four innings. That's no too big of a problem for a team with an excess of starters and an experienced bullpen, but it would have been disastrous here in Baltimore.

And, as Bear said, he's a clubhouse diva. A huge ego that wouldn't have been much of a help for the young starters.

His start against the Yankees last night was great and all, but one great start on a big stage is no reason to think he would have been a good fit with the O's this season.

"In his two starts..."

should be

"In his last two starts..."

b,

At the end of the year when Trembley was rehired Macphail uttered some vagaries that he expected a better performance from Trembley in 2010. You are right, since then there have been no positive declarative statements from Macphail at all.

What is so hard about the General Manager at least saying that he expects to have a winning season next year? He sets the expectations for the organization and the fans.

Here's where we have come b. Earlier this year when Pete and all of us recognized that 2009 was going to be a throw away year[to paraphrase} we gave the team a pass and said that it could not happen again in 2010 and that Macphail neeeded to put a winning, or at least .500 team on the field in 2010. We were all pretty strident about it then.

Then the word'winning" became "competitive" Then the word"competitive" became "improvement". Then the word "improvement" became "progress".

What's next, that we at least expect the team will show up and play in 2010?

And the fans are setting their own low expectations,thus not holding the organization accountable. Why are we arguing that we can't see a lot of ways that Macphail can improve the team with the apparent skinny free agent market? Isn't that his job to figure out? Macphail doesn't have to say anything, he knows we expect to lose again in 2010

After the All Star break in 2010 when the Orioles begin their annual nose dive Pete and the fans will say that the Orioles need to win in 2011. Or at least play .500. Or at least show improvement.

b-why is very post you make an arguement with somebody. you come across as a beligerent prick.

Gil- That is the Oriole way. Set expectations low. If MacPhail doesn't say anything, you'll never hear a word from the warehouse. The owner and his son haven't been there in a month.

a -

75% the posts here are arguments.

That's what you do on a blog.

The blogger posts something, then someone posts their opinion, then someone else tells that person why they're wrong. Then the cycle starts over again.

What's the big deal?

Gil -

You're right.

But the move from "winning" to "progress" was a result of fan and media speak.

There hasn't been a statement from the front office saying that they don't expect to win or compete or whatever in 2010.

All we've heard from AM is that there's a new set of expectations on the club for next year.

Here's hoping that AM will let the offseason moves speak for him and give the fans hope of winning in 2010.

b, Yeah, I know when Martinez signed, but I that wasn't the point. In the spring, MacPhail was asked about the possibility of Pedro signing with the Orioles and he said he didn't think the righthander would help the team's rotation. Mind you, this is when he was stockpiling such "illustrious" arms as Hill, Eaton, Pauley and Hendrickson.

Like Martinez couldn't have helped the team more than those pitchers? (Of the four only Hendrickson can be said to have had a decent season, but still he's no Pedro.)

At the same time, Andy ignored what being said about Martinez by people who have more insight as to whether he could still pitch or not and that was major league hitters who faced him when he started for the Dominican team in the WBC.

Among them was Brian Roberts, who had faced Pedro many times when the latter was with the Red Sox. B-Rob without hesitation proclaimed him worthy looking into, noting that while his velocity was down, he had great command and mixed his pitches well.

There is no doubt that Martinez would have done better than most of the guys who went to the mound for the O's this season and that the club would have finished with a better record.

He would have really savored going up against AL East clubs and pitched with intensity against them. Clubhouse diva? Yeah, but the man can pitch. It's not like he'd be the first for the O's and, who knows, maybe he would have given the clubhouse a lift. For sure, he could have taught the youngsters a thing or two about pitching.

Said it then, and I'll say it again: Bad move by Andy, who should have know better. One of the few errors he's made while heading the Orioles front office, but an error none the less. (Understand me, though, when I say this it's like saying Brooks made some errors; in neither case does it detract from the record of overall excellence.)

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Pete's reply: Andy said that because the O's thought Pedro was going to cost up to $9 million (including incentives). There was also concern that he wasn't physically ready to pitch, which may or may not have been true. But he didn't pitch until much later, so you have to take that into consideration.

Gil -

~~Now, how can I say they are planning to lose in again in 2010? Have you heard anyone in the Organization from Angelos on down say that they expect to have a winning season in 2010? If you are not planning to win then you expect to lose.~~

IN announcing the retention of DT, MacPhail pretty clearly said that starting now, the manager will be assessed by and held accountable for the win/loss record:

"You now change the criteria for evaluating managers (to) wins and losses," MacPhail said. "That may not always be fair. Things happen, but at this point, going forward, I like to think we're out of that first phase of what we hoped to do."

Isnt this EXACTLY what you said the team did NOT say?

To Daydreamer....
Thank you for the input concerning my comments about the Roberts-to-Atlanta proposed deals.
Here's how I remember it:
We indeed offered Roberts and Penn, but they wanted Bedard instead of Penn.
This deal was rumored and talked about for quite a few days, and no doubt the players involved were changed around between the two negotiating parties. Finally, it was decided to involve Bedard and needed only the approval of the CEO, who, as I remember, vetoed it at the very last minute.
"There are probably millions of people in the world who are built like Lou Gherig but that doesn't mean they are any good at baseball."
-b
So tell me, b.... would you say Michael Aubrey is "any good" at baseball ?
I mean, he WAS the number one draft choice of a major league playoff baseball team a couple of years ago.
I mean he DID play flawless first base in his limited opportunities with the Orioles.
I mean he DID hit the ball hard practically every at-bat he had with the O's.
Seriously.... you think he's any good at baseball ?

Bear -

I wasn't saying that Aubrey is the worst ballplayer ever. Only that being "built like Lou Gehrig" is absolutely meaningless. I'm built like Lance Berkman, but that doesn't mean I could hit 30 homers in the bigs.

And so what if he was a number one draft choice? Would you like to see a list of failed #1 draft choices from the last couple of years? I'm not going to go look it up, but I'm guessing that list is pretty long.

And who cares if he hit the ball hard with the O's? He played in 31 games. He had 90 at bats. Talk about small sample sizes.

Aubrey can field, I'll give you that. But so could Doug Mientkiewicz. And there's a reason Mientkiewicz didn't stick as an every day first baseman.

Remove the doubts Peter! In my opinion it's rather a "die-year" than a "do-year" -.-

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Pete's reply: It definitely could be, unfortunately.

LuckyHorseshoe,

I think you have to parse that statement made by Macphail to translate it into the fact that he expects the team to have a winning record in 2010. In my opinion all he did was set Trembley up to get fired when the team has another losing season.

How about Angelos simply saying, "The organization is planning and expecting to have a winning record in 2010. And if we do not, all will be held accountable from me on down".

Am I being too hard on them to ask for that? b thinks that I am and he is probably right. Maybe I am asking for something that they know they cannot say.

Ahhhh, but it was quite obvious what Mentkiewicz's problem was:
He wasn't built like Lou Gherig.

Thinking Spring up here in the Klondike. Anyway, do you think there is any way to keep Angelos from going hog wild during the free agent period? We all know how he likes to spend spend spend to compete compete compete.