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October 1, 2009

Managerial mayhem

Things are starting to heat up around here, with Dave Trembley's status likely to be determined in the next four or five days. The wolves are out and some of them want me on a slow boat to China along with poor old Dave.

That's fine. Everybody's got an opinion here and I'm glad that there is enough passion left in Birdland to care who's going to be the manager next year, but I'm troubled by a segment of the posting population here that doesn't think anybody else has a right to an opposing opinion.

The thing that makes a blog worth reading is the exchange of ideas. The fact that I'm not on the Blame Dave Bandwagon is a reflection of my opinion of how a manager affects a team and what really constitutes progressive change in a baseball organization. Obviously, you can make a compelling argument for a new manager, but I choose to view the situation a little bit differently.

I'm sorry if that offends some of the most strident Dave-haters, but I'm a little tired of the posters who have so little confidence in their own opinions that they choose to question the integrity of anyone who disagrees with them. And, though I welcome almost all comments and recognize that a blog is a fairly anonymous community, I'd like to compliment those posters -- particularly the ones who are hitting me the hardest -- who do it with some kind of consistent identity.

Oh, and one other thing. There's a poster here who actually believes that I put up two entries about Michael Vick to divert attention away from the Orioles' abysmal September to protect Peter Angelos and the front office. To that person, I just want to assure you that isn't the case and, while we're on the subject of conspiracy theories, I was not old enough to be one of the guys behind the grassy knoll in Dallas.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 11:14 AM | | Comments (126)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

Like I said Peter,

You stepped up!

Not only did you display class, you did so with a knowledge of the game that surpass that of a typical baseball journalist.

You gave the issue thought (instead of shooting from the hip like most), and you went with the unpopular view.....which took xxlls.

Bravo Peter! Thanks for stepping up by doing the right thing!

Pete said ", I was not old enough to be one of the guys behind the grassy knoll in Dallas."

To plagarize a recent political quote, "You Lie!" :)

BTW Pete - sorry to make light of your jetsetting. I didn't realize you were traveling for a funeral. My sympathies.

Also, feel fortunate the posters in your blog are attacking you, poor Roch has them all cannibalizing each other. LOL

And on the subject at hand, I've changed my mind for the 4th or 5th time and now feel that they should keep Trembley for next year but fire ALL of the coaches and let's see how the young guys develop. They should also send the whole team for the Winter Leagues and learn how to base run.

Pete, I for one, have never suggested that Trembley should be fired, or that he is to blame for the looming 100 loss season. My eyes have have always been focused much higher in the organization where the root cause of the problem exists.

Blaiming Dave Trembley for this 12 year disaster flys in the face of history.

Has he made some decisions I did not agree with? Sure.

Has the team played sound fundamental baseball this year? No.

Is the roster representaive of legitimate Major League talent? No.

I honestly don't have an opinon on Dave Trembley at this point, but I can see that he is the whipping boy for many people who should properly place the responsiblity for this debacle at the doorstep of the person in charge.

Pete -

The thing that bothers me about all of the haters here is that, unbeknownst to them, they've been programmed to think the way that they do.

In the history of the post Davey Johnson O's, how many managers have been fired (ie: blamed for the team's failure)? I can count off Ray Miller, Mike Hargrove, Lee Mazzilli and Sam Perlozzo. That's it right? So, essentially, four managers have been fired because the front office failed to give them decent players to work with. Think about it: Mike Mussina, Erik Bedard, Jeremy Guthrie and maybe Rodrigo Lopez are the only reliable starting pitchers in the short and sad history of the 1998 to 2007 Orioles. Think about it! FOUR solid starters in TEN years! And only Mussina was around for more than two of those ten years! What horror of horrors befell the once proud men who gave up a respectable life to manage the Baltimore Orioles? Let's see...

Throughout that time, these poor managers had to suffer through the demise of Scott Erickson, along with Sidney Ponson, Eric DuBose, Jason Johnson, Travis Driskill, Calvin Maduro, Rick Bauer, Pat Rapp, Juan Guzman, Doug Drabek, Scott Kamieniecki, Rick Helling, Omar Daal, Pat Hentgen's twilight years, Sidney AGAIN!, Matt Riley, Bruce Chen, the insufferable Daniel Cabrera, Hayden Penn, Kris Benson, Adam Loewen, Steve Trachsel and Brian Burres.

And don't forget the "free agent splashes" on the offensive side of the game: Delino DeShields! Will Clark! Brook Fordyce! Marty Cordova! Chris Singleton! Deivi Cruz! Twilight Javy Lopez! Twilight Rafael Palmeiro! Aubrey Huff! Jay Payton!

Did anyone else just throw up a little?

So back to my original point: Over the past 12 years, Oriole fans have known five managers. None of them lasted for more than three seasons. Was it their fault? Was it because they weren't given anything to work with? Who cares! Fire them all! Fire anyone who can't make a team of reject starting pitchers and bargain bin free agents win!

And it's the same with Andy MacPhail's rebuilding plan.

From '98 to '07, management told fans that they were rebuilding. But over those ten years, were any solid veterans traded for a package of talented prospects? Nope. Did the front office have any clue when it came to the draft? Nope.

So how is that rebuilding? It's not. As CB Coach commented a few days ago, what this team was doing from '98 to '07 was slapping a new coat of paint on a house with a rotting foundation. That's not rebuilding. That's losing at it's finest.

What's happening now is true rebuilding. Trading solid vets for loads of prospects. Bringing in a solid scouting director in Joe Jordan. Opening doors to international scouting. Opening doors to signing international free agents. Locking up talented cornerstone players to multi-year deals. Not rushing young pitchers.

That's rebuilding. That's what Andy MacPhail is doing. I'm sorry that you all have been lied to for so long, but the young offensive talent base is already here in Roberts, Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Reimold, Pie, and, shortly Snyder, Bell, Turner and Waring. The solid young pitching is here in Guthrie, Matusz, Tillman, Johnson, Mickolio and shortly, Arrieta, Erbe, Perrualt, Ouellette and Lebron. It's only going to hurt for a little bit longer. Hopefully, Peter Angelos will see that the base is there and he'll give MacPhail an open wallet this offseason. If that's the case, and MacPhail has a legit shot at signing Matt Holliday or Jason Bay and a pitcher to sure up the staff, I think this team will be competitive in 2009.

Pete,

I think that everyone deep down inside realize that Trembley is at fault. I certainly hope that he gets a chance to continue to manage, the organization needs to be over hauled still. Just hope that the off season brings a surprise to the fans. They still have two holes in the rotation, need for three good relief pitchers and corner infielders. That is a lot to fill Seven spots in one year. Fact is the brass should have put more effort into bringing a top starter here last year, instead of what they went out of spring training with. It is obvious that a lot of these young pitchers have a lot to work on, maybe Tillman, Hernandez and Berken would be better suited to work out of the bullpen next year. That would fill a few holes, but since Sherrill has been traded, we still do not have a closer. Maybe they can get one in free agency. Really going to be tough to fill the holes within.

This is a different prospective on Trembley for the negative posters to enjoy.
http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20091001/SPORTS/910010380/-1/newsfront2/Ineffective-Trembley-should-be-added-to-the-Orioles--loss-column

Hey Gil and Wayne,

Awesome Post! You both hit the nail right on the head!

And Pete, worry not about the ignorance of those who simply don't know or understand the game. Yes, the O's are a pathetic, miserable organization that has become a national embarrassment to Charm City. To blame the manager however, would thoroughly ruin AM's credibility, along with his great 'Plan'.

The time for scapegoats has to come to an end at some point. If fans can't accept such logic then they deserve what they're currently witnessing.

It's time to put real talent on the field. Young talent is fine, but it's time to mix in expensive, proven talent, allowing the manager to simply compete (see St. Louis)

The formula is not a secret, and it's not that difficult. In fact, it's much more difficult to have 12 seasons in the row like we've just seen.

So thanks for your Blogs Pete, thanks for telling it like it is, and thanks to posters like Wayne and Gil for 'getting it'!

I think the Orioles should keep Trembley. Do I think he is a great manager? No, but I think he is a decent manager and I don't know if we could get a great manager at this point. Trembley doesn't bat clean-up. Trembley doesn't take the hill every fifth day. That is the problem - glaring lack of talent, especially pitching depth. Right now, the Orioles need some consistencey rather than a revolving door to the manager's office.

Hey Pete, I love a good debate about ideas. Agree with you philosophy about the blog, but not your entry.

I like Dave Trembley, was exicited when he was hired, and probably had expectations that were to high, but I also believe it is time to switch managers.

Trembley has not been given a lot to work with and his roster at the beginning of the year was a joke, but the team was 40-48 at one point. Now the team has played 16-41 (.281 winning percentage) in the last 57 games and has not played smart, fundamental baseball all year.

Trembley stressed this over and over, but it is not showing up on the field, so he either is not effective in getting his message across or teaching what needs to be changed. It could be his coaches and his players, but ultimately he is not effective and does not appear to hold players accountable (Wiggington and Mora come to mind; Pie was called out a few times, but he has progressed nicely).

If the team was losing close, well played games, I would be for keeping him in a heartbeat, but honestly, the product on the field is awful.

I do not believe any functional organization (so we can exclude the Nationals, Royals and Pirates) would tolerate the kind of season and especially the kind of disaster the last 50-60 games have been without making some major changes. Regardless of excuses (trading Sherrill, Beregesen injury, Jone injury, Reimold not at 100%, etc.), Trembley is not effective with the players he has, and the results are unacceptable.

Just my thoughts...

Saying that Dave T. needs to go is NOT the same as blaming him for this dismal season. Pete, you and the DT supporters appear to be stuck on that.
DT needs to go because our fundamentals were atrocious, our focus was minimal, and our leadership was completely non-existent. That's why he has to go. Not because someone has to burn for this season.

Also, in response to your faceoff with Cowherd... lot's of teams have changed managers and succeeded. The argument that the Braves, Cardinals, etc. have had ups and downs with the same manager and therefore we should keep DT is RIDICULOUS. Just look at the Rockies and Rays of the recent past. Yes, they had better talent, but most importantly they played good, fundamental baseball. If the Orioles had won 80 games this year, I'd still be asking for DT's head, because they didn't have one stretch this year where they played good ball. Not one. It wasn't that they were always losing to better clubs, it was that their baserunning, situational hitting, and managerial decisions were possibly the worst in the league.

That's why DT has to go. He's not all the sudden next year with a potentially more talented team going to become a 'good' manager who instills fundamentals and leads this team.

Pete i have told you since the all star break that this team was going to lose 100 games, i have tahen abuse from you and every other kool aid drinker on your site and roch's yet i have stood my ground. I also have been prounced in my stand that this team needs a new manager if only to hear a new voice and different message going into next year, that being the least reason but also a very important one. There is no way they can bring back a manager after a team closes the season on a 13 or 17 game losing streak,there isnothing you can tell your team after that last game sunday that will give them any renewed hope next year knowing that the same guy will be in charge. You have known my name and my views throught out this whole process and you also know to what lenghts i will go if things don't change. Down the streatch there have been many teams that could have throughn in the towel but haven't KC, Wash, toronto, even Tampa bay when they lost there best player and were elimanted from the playoffs , but still go out and win games. Even Andy himself said that he was completley dissatisfed with losing to those teams with similiar problems like the oriole. Bring dave t back is a complete shame and would only indicated to me that he is nothing but a place holder because the plan has had a major set back.

Pete,

I have to hand it to you that you stick to your guns, and that's respectable. I guess we all have to agree to disagree on how we all feel about Trembley.

I personally, have a problem with media personalities discounting those who oppose their views. Listen to Mark Viviano and the "Bulldog" and you will know what I'm talking about.

Anyone who knows baseball knows that Trembley is not the future manager or this team. He was brought here because no manager in their right mind would take and probably still won't take this job.

What I fault Trembley for is accepting the job he wasn't qualified to do, hence he deserves to take the heat.

The failures of the manager and the team ultimately lie with the GM. One thing is for certain. If MacPhail gives Trembley another year, and Trembley repeats his 09 performance, it might be MacPhail who goes before Trembley.

I like Trembley as a man, and I would not mind having a beer with him, but we all saw what happened to our country for 8 years of a president we all liked to have a beer with. I see the same happening with the O's

And lastly, If Trembley managed in NY, Chicago, LA or any other big market team, you bet he wouldn't have gotten a free ride as he has enjoyed by the Baltimore media.

Yes every reporter is entitled to their opinion, but not once have I seen/read anyone in the Baltimore media rip Trembley for a poor job. Coincidence? I think not. Anyone who has read "Entangled in Ivy" or any other print about how MacPhail operates, will understand how MacPhail controls the media.

Here's an offseason shopping list for this team...

(Note: Whenever I say "trade young pitching", I'm not referring to Matusz, Arrieta or Tillman, unless otherwise noted)

Backup Catcher Options:
- Resign Chad Moeller
- Jason LaRue
- Josh Bard

1st Base Options:
- Give the job to Brandon Snyder in Spring Training and see what happens
- Trade young pitching for Jorge Cantu
- Center a trade around Tillman for Adrian Gonzalez
- Center a trade around Tillman for Prince Fielder
- Sign Adam LaRoche or Nick Johnson if, and only if, one of them will agree to a one year deal
- If the D-Backs non-tender Conor Jackson, sign him to a minor league deal and invite him to camp immediately, regardless of any other first base moves.

Shortstop Options:
- Definitely keep Izturis
- Trade young pitching for J.J. Hardy
- Sign Bobby Crosby or Khalil Greene to an incentive based deal to see if one of them can rediscover their stroke.

Third Base Options:
- Sign Chone Figgins. Bow out of the race if the price gets higher/longer than the Roberts deal.
- Sign Adrian Beltre. Bow out if it takes more than $7-8M per or more than two years.

Left Field Options:
- Let Reimold and Pie continue to share the job.
- Go all out and sign Jason Bay. Bow out if the deal is longer than five years and/or more than $80M.
- Go all out and sign Matt Holliday. Bow out if the deal is longer than six years and/or more than $90M.

Other OF/DH types to look into: Rick Ankiel, Vlad Guerrero, Hideki Matsui, Jim Thome

Starting Pitching Options:
- Sign John Lackey. Bow out if the deal is longer than four years and/or more than $48-50M.
- Sign Rich Harden. Bow out if it takes more than a one year deal.
- Sign Erik Bedard. Bow out if it takes more than a one year, incentive laden deal.
- Sign Justin Duchscherer. Bow out if it takes more than a one year, incentive laden deal.
- Sign Aroldis Chapman. Bow out if the Yanks and Red Sox start a bidding war.
- Sign Andy Pettitte. Bow out if it takes more than a one year deal.

Closer Options:
- Avoid "closers" at all costs. Don't even think about offering big money to Jose Valverde or Rafael Soriano
- Sign Billy Wagner. Bow out if it takes more than a one year deal.
- Sign Mike Gonzalez or Kevin Gregg. Bow out if takes more than a one year deal.
- Let Jim Johnson, Kam Mickolio, Josh Perrault, and Luis Lebron compete for the job in Spring Training.

Other Relief Options (All one year deals): Chad Cordero, Brandon Lyon, J.J. Putz, Juan Rincon, Joe Beimel, John Grabow

With all that said, here's my (bold) prediction for the 2010 Baltimore Orioles:

c - Matt Wieters
1b - Adrian Gonzalez (BAM!)
2b - Brian Roberts
ss - Cesar Izturis
3b - Adrian Beltre
lf - Jason Bay (BAM!)
cf - Adam Jones
rf - Nick Markakis
dh - Jim Thome

bn - Felix Pie, Mark Kotsay, J.J. Hardy, Ty Wigginton, Chad Moeller

sp - Jeremy Guthrie, Brian Matusz, Brad Bergesen, Erik Bedard, Jake Arrieta

rp - Billy Wagner (CL), Koji Uehara, Mark Hendrickson, Jim Johnson, Kam Mickolio, Josh Perrault

You'll notice that Reimold and Tillman aren't listed. They were the headliners in the Adrian Gonzalez trade.

Also, Mark Kotsay is in as a backup outfielder/backup first baseman/DH/PH.

It probably won't happen, but I did say it was going to be bold.

The argument about the Yankee and Red Sox can but a pennant is not a statement that can be made without pointing out some interesting facts.

Now the Yankees are one story, but the Red Sox, who can complete, are another.

Up until the very late '90s the Orioles were as competitive as the Red Sox. The Orioles payroll was actualy higher most years. The relative population growths of Boston and Baltimore is consistant over time.

The Camden Yards factor had worn off and the Orioles attendance was still 1.3 million more than the Red Sox in 1997-1999. In fact, the Red Sox did not draw more that the Orioles until 2002!. That is when their ticket prices went up and revenues begain to grow. They had NESN, but the Orioles now have MASN. The Red Sox got better and the Orioles declined. A new owner made the Sox a fan friendly organization.
The Orioles saw the opposite from ownership. I will grant you that the National's has affected numbers for the Orioles, but it is hard to tell how much as they came to DC when the fans base was already declining.

The conclusion is that the Orioles have created a good part of the revenue disparity between the teams. While the Orioles may not be able to put up a $120M payroll, they were in a position to keep in the $100M range if the business was not so mismanged for so many years.

In 1999, Dan Duquette called Fenway Park "economically obsolete" and, along with Red Sox ownership, led a push for a new stadium. Well, it's not now because John Henry assembled a front office team headed up by Larry Lucchino who turned the team around. That is where the Orioles have failed. It starts at the top. H

OK Peter.... you have an opinion and you're sticking to it. I think you're the kind of person who forms opinions only after considering as many of the facts as are available.
I enjoy reading your pieces more than any other Sun writer because of that.
In fact, with the exception of Dean Jones, you're the only guy there earning his pay.
The rest of the Sun writers seem to be filling up space in the sports pages much as they apparently fill up space in the newsroom.
But you're not like that.
You actually have something to say which is a usually balanced mixture of brain and heart.
Your points about scapegoatism and the old blame game are well taken.
However, I honestly believe that even change for the sake of change does have a place in this world.
Maybe Dave hasn't done one thing wrong during his tenure as Oriole manager.
Maybe it can be debated and even proven that none of the bad fortunes the team has endured during his reign have been his fault.
Does he have that "winning" background that will eventually rub off on the team?
Well.... all I can say to that
is what I said in this blog a few months back:
What teams had Earl Weaver taken to post season play when he suddenly appeared as Hank Bauer's first base coach in 1968 and subsequently ended up with Bauer's job before the end of the season?
The point is, either a manager has it or he doesn't.
The question should not be whether Trembly has done anything wrong.
The question should be whether he's done anything at all of any significance.
I say he has not.
Dave likes to talk about players making the most of the opportunities that are given to them.... or not.
That's why I believe he should understand perfectly well why it's time to give someone else the opportunity to manage this ballclub.

"but I'm troubled by a segment of the posting population here that doesn't think anybody else has a right to an opposing opinion." - welcome to Baltimore, Pete!

by the way, I'm in the "it doesn't matter who the manager is, we are a below-average franchise anyway" camp. oh, and the "as long as we're in the AL East, we will always struggle to win" camp.

and also put me in the "MLB is fundamentally flawed" camp.

This will be the classic case of a new manager and immediate success next year. There is not a manager that could have won with that pitching staff this past year. Next year Guthrie will probably be better. Bergeson, Matusz and Tillman will all be a year older and no longer rookies. The lineup should be dynamite with Jones, Reimold and Wieters continuing to improve.

That being said Trembley should be fired. The base running mistakes was mind numbing. The way he would give a guy on a hot streak a day off because it was a scheduled day off regardless of the fact the guy was on a roll.

A couple points need to be made:

1) Jason Bay is not coming here. In fact, get real - he isn't that great. He is a product of being in that stacked Bo Soxs line-up and his fielding/outfield assists come largely from playing behind the green monster. Anyone can play great left field there...well anyone by Manny.

2) I don't know how anyone can blame Trembly when most of the players brought up for backups in the rotation aren't even playing! Were the O's really going to turn a corner with Bergesen, Reimold, Huff, Jones, and Sherill gone? Or how about bringing up a bunch of kids that are still questionable for the majors(that would be September call ups on any other team)? And sure he's done some questionable calls with the pitching staff, but thats because he's playing into the system. So what if the O's won 3 or 4 more games because he should have left a guy in a little longer/took him out too soon? They would still be dead last in the AL East!

3) Dave Johnson is not coming back! Wake up! There is no good coaches out there that are going to turn this team around. No one with half a brain and a credible record is going to want to come here.

4) On that same note. We will not be getting any decent free agents. No one is going to want to come here. McPhail spent the smart money last season by locking up Markakis and Roberts and I don't hear anyone complaining about that. There is just too many holes to fill that cannot be bought with crazy money (yes crazy money is what we would need to get people here). We would need to buy a power hitting clean up, almost an entirely new bullpen, and 2 great starters. Even the yanks can't pull that off...they came close.

5) Although I think that Sherill trade was a good move, to all those people that kept saying a closer is no big deal and anyone can do it, where are you now?

6) Another reason to not be confident about next year is that we still have seen that only Markakis and Roberts can go out there and play through the entire season. How do you think the O's are going to be competitive when most of the team can't make it through the season?

7) Just for fun, we didn't really get much from that Tejada trade when you look at it and hes still playing good ball. What if we would have kept him? Got Texiera? We would all be saying right now, all we need is the pitching to come through next year. Just saying...

Peter, just because I think Trembley should be fired doesn't mean I'm on the Blame Dave Bandwagon either. I gave up my season tickets at the end of the 2000 season--long before I ever heard of our current manager whose biggest assets seem to be he works cheaply and he shows up on time. (I'm not even that sure the latter is an asset in his case.)

If we only fire the manager when he is The One To Blame, the Orioles should still have Mike Hargrove (or after all this time, his cardboard cutout).

The facts are not only are the Orioles still losing, they are losing more and more games each year. Yes, that started pre-Trembley (post-2004 when the Orioles spent some money and stumbled into 78 wins).

Not only does the team collapse each year under Trembley (I know, I know. We lost this player; we lost that player.), the individual performances of the remaining players keep getting worse.

Furthermore, you predicted 69 wins. You thought my 58-win prediction was so silly, you offered lunch if that happened. With my prediction looking better than yours, I would think Trembley would deserve some accountability from you.

Heck, no. The '62 Mets are getting within reach. And since Sept. 13, Trembley has only one less win than Harbaugh, and nobody is screaming for Harbaugh's head.

As I said, I gave up my tickets nine years ago. I'm still not convinced The Warehouse wants to win ... and I want to be convinced. So, we'll spend another off-season seeing what is attempted, what is pretended to be attempted, and what is supposed to be our new direction.

And to be clear, I was--and still am--in favor of the youth movement. I still support the actions taken by MacPhail. I also think that it was not enough. And if that is all the Orioles are banking on is to bring in a schlew of players hoping someone materializes beyond our wildest dreams, that will again be not enough.

All of that has nothing to do with the manager except if the Orioles still don't care about winning, whoever is wearing out the path to the mound and scribbling nonsense on line-up cards won't matter. If the Orioles really are in the early stages of caring about winning again, Trembley has done absolutely nothing to deserve to return except that he shows up on time.

That doesn't make him a scapegoat in my mind. (Maybe it does for The Warehouse). It simply makes him accountable for the things that are (were) within his reach.

And I don't hate him ... or you.

And to all those who say this player isn't coming here or that manager isn't coming here, remember the Chicago St. Louis Phoenix Arizona Cardinals. They have had generations of poor ownership, and they can hire good folks.

The football Cardinals are maligned similarly as the baseball Orioles. Both can break away from their way of doing business. But will they? Will either one?

That is certainly a legitimate question. And the Orioles don't play in the equivalent to the NFC West.

But hiring good folks is certainly possible. If someone says it isn't, poppycock. If The Warehouse says it isn't, they aren't trying or trying hard enough.

Gerry -

Good points all aside from your thoughts on Bay and Tejada.

Do you really think that Bay is a product of the Red Sox offense? Jason Bay put up three straight .900+ OPS seasons with the PIRATES. Enough said. (And by the way, you're right about his defense. He's a brick in the outfield.)

When the Orioles signed Tejada for $12M per year, he was a slick-fielding 28yo shortstop with 30 homer pop. Now he's a 35yo (due to the revelation of his real birth certificate) with rapidly declining skills (especially on the defensive side) and he hasn't hit more than 13 homers since 2007. I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad we're not paying him $15M for that kind of production. Especially we got five prospects for him and the deal happened about 48 hours before his name came out in the ongoing steroid saga.

I hear the arguments about keeping Trembly. I don't know. I see a team that swings too early in the pitch count(very low walk and strikeout rate), that can't steal a base(worst stolen base percentage in the AL) and that has an extremely high number and percent of runners thrown out on the basepath(in the bottom five in the AL).

I didn't expect this team to be good, but I would think they could play fundamentally sound baseball. But then again, this team is young.

Either this team needs to add another veteran or two or else Trembley needs to go. These guys just aren't getting it.

It's not about the hundred losses. It's about the not smart baseball.

Two things come to mind with this opinion; one being does Dave want to come back, does he finally want to get from under this pressure of a possible similar season even as a lame duck manager? if he wants to finish out the contract and McPhail gives a little more to work with (impact players) for a true test of managerial competence; then bring him back for the final year of his contract

Alright. The Padres are probably not going to give away Gonzalez for anything that the O's would be willing to part with. They haven't looked too shabby the second half and believe they're on their way to contention next year. The only way the Brewers are giving away Prince Fielder is if they can get some real starting pitchers, which is what we need the most, so he's out of the question. Everyone thinks there isn't a chance we'll get Lackey, and while we won't know until we try, this likely is the case. The same could be said for Pettitte, who is 38 and probably wouldn't see a point in spending a year or two with a club that doesn't have a sure bet at the postseason. Either way, we need to go after these guys because they're probably the best available in this FA class. With that said, we need a contingency plan:


** Go for Randy Wolf. He's the best free agent starter we have a chance at getting. He has a 1.08 WHIP and he's 11-8 right now, which isn't bad, but he looks a lot better knowing his bullpen's blown nine saves for him. He's also 33 which means he isn't old but he's pitched almost 3x the innings as Guthrie which should earn him some respect in the clubhouse. Trading for a quality starter will involve giving away a pitching prospect or two. I'm not saying we shouldn't do that, but if we aren't willing to seal the deal, Andy McPhail should be looking hard at Randy Wolf. And look at it this way - say we're contending going into the trade deadline next season, how good would a Guthrie, Hernandez, Pie, and 2 prospies for a Halladay look??


** What do people think we'd have to give up for Mark Reynolds? I like this guy. "So what" if he strikes out 1 in 3 times he comes to the plate - his OBP is higher than Scott, Markakis, Jones and Wieters. Who else wants to see this right-handed clean-up guy jack 480' shots to sec. 382 on college night spilling beer all over co-eds, along with opposite field shots, tattooing his name all over Eutaw St.? If he's hitting 44+ homers out of Chase Field this year (right in the middle at 15th in park factor), imagine him silencing Sox fans as he owns the Green Monster each of the 9 times we play them at Fenway. Imagine him teeing off Joba at homer-happy Yankee Stadium (1st in park factor) pumping his fist as he circles the bases. We play them 9 times there too. And imagine what he'd do at Oriole Park (5th in park factor) in 82 games... He also has 24 stolen bases which places him easily at 2nd on the O's, and at 26 he's only going to improve.


** We have to solidify our rotation before we do anything else. Once that's accomplished, a guy like Mark Reynolds becomes a great option to stabilize the lineup. After that's said and done, and only when that is said and done, should we begin to look at the bullpen. While I think that a good rotation helps out the bullpen and that we don't need a total $40 mil. overhaul, we could use a dependable lefty. Castillo is a minor league pitcher - the only reason we're seeing some success now is that he comes on late in games and is facing some minor league batters - he won't do the job. The best two free agents I could find were Joe Beimel of the Rockies and John Grabow of the Cubs. Beimel would be my choice - he's been a bit better the past couple years, doesn't walk as many batters and he's actually played some in the AL, but Grabow isn't bad either. I think we could get either of them for quite a bit less than we gave Baez, Bradford or Walker. I say, throw a 2 year $6 mil. deal between them and see who's left standing.


Who knows if we'll actually be able to pull all of that off. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll do better - get Luckey or find a Prince - but I doubt it. But if we did end up with the guys mentioned above, I think O's fans would have something to look forward to.

I liked Fort Lauderdale, but I've already got myself excited about seeing these guys join our young team at Ed Smith Stadium. It really is a step up and is one of those immeasurable improvements that will benefit us long term. Looking at what we got - our savior, Matthew Richard Wieters, will only improve. As should Chris Tillman, and I fully expect Brian Matusz to come out of Spring Training like a left-handed slightly slow but very agile bat out of hell. If Reimold, Bergesen and Jones (and Pie, God love him) fully recover and Jones and Markakis (no one's betting on Scott) are a bit more consistent with some protection from Reynolds, we're playing .500 ball, if not competing in the AL East. Here's what we look like April 6th:

Roberts, 2b
Jones, cf
Markakis, rf
Reynolds, 3b
Wieters, c
Reimold, dh/lf
Pie, lf
Aubrey, 1b (assuming Scott and/or Wigginton's traded)
Izturis, ss

Bench: Wigginton, Andino, Moeller

Wolf
Guthrie
Bergesen
Matusz
Tillman

Pen: Uehara, Johnson, Mickolio, Ray, Meredith, Sarfate, Hendrickson, Beimel


That's not exactly a $208,097,414 group of guys, but it will win us some ball games. And if Trembley can't do anything with these guys, we should feel free to let him go at any point during his option year. He is not the man we need once we start getting to the postseason - he cannot lead the team, he doesn't really hold players accountable and he is the major's worst small-ball manager. But he needs to start the 2010 season as the O's manager. Trembley probably didn't negatively affect the outcome of more than 8 or 10 games and he did quite a good job introducing our best prospects to the majors, he may have even coddled them a bit much. Not bringing him back is asking for a change, which is fine if you have a direction. Change for change's sake is aimless and irrational and we shouldn't feel like someone is to be blamed. If McPhail has gotten no bites from legitimate managers by next week, I think he'll take Trembley's option. I've said before that it could be interesting to pursue Mike Piazza, and maybe that's something to look into, but I digress. Most all of us bought into "the Plan", and we shouldn't have expected more out of this season. The only real administrative flaw we made was trading Sherrill. Other than that move, we've been able to free up some money and we've realized the holes that we need to fill for next year. Again, with all of these things in mind, should the front office be aggressive in filling these holes, these fans should have something to look forward to next Spring.

Thoughts and opinions? Please only comment if you have something intelligent to say and aren't trying to prove yourself to the rest of us.

When Tremblay was hire, I was all for him. I thought that he was the kind of low key guy that often gets overlooked for the big job but then shines when given the chance.

I was wrong.

It is not personal. DT does not know how to manage a bullpen. I am only guessing here, but I would bet that he had more different lineups than any other team in MLB this year. He obviously can't motivate a team (with his job on the iine, the team can't even win 1 of 13 for the gipper). I am also deeply concerned about guys with promising stats in double and triple A who come up here and are getting hammered, especially the pitchers. This could also be a coaching staff issue, but you have to start somewhere.

b- most of the players you mentioned ar A/B free agents and will cost the O's draft picks.

Beltre is washed up at 30 (or 32?) and was less productive than Melvin Mora the past two years.

Guessing Billy Wagner wants to go somewhere that offers a chance to win a WS.

Mark Kotsay? what?

Bedard? Are we playing a low-A short season length schedule?

Pads said they aren't trading AGonzo. Not sure who started those rumors. He scares me too... 1 rough year from turning into a .258 hitter. Not worth giving up Harnish Finley and Schilling to get him. 20th anny of that trade is right around the corner.

Jim Thome is washed up and hits .250. Scott is more productive at this point.

Lackey is not coming here. He's goign to have a "B" on his hat.

For as much as everyone wants a big splash, the prudent this this off season is to do a whole lotta nothin'.

One reason Trembley has to go is simple. MacPhail said he did not want to see another second half fold. Well, he's seeing a doozy. And forget about the excuse that Sherill is gone, along with Huff and Jones. This season's fold started in July, after the break, when all three were still here. Huff and Jones were showing absolutely no patience, or knowledge of the strike zone, but they were playing almost every day. Sherrill wasn't getting save chances, because we didn't lead after 8 or 8.5 innings, but he was here.

Face it, the O's were 40-48 before the break, and are 20-50 after. That second half record is intolerable, but poor records are unfortunately not unusual in recent years (remember when the O's used to be great in the second half?) I'm sick of Trembley pointing out moral victories - the games are played to win, and reach the postseason, not to look good because you lost a lot of close games rather than mainly blowouts.

how are the O's getting Mark Reynolds???

If we are able to sign a Matt Holliday, do you turn around and trade Tillman, Jake and Reimold for Roy Halladay who is still a fair shot to be traded but at 32 can likely give you 4 years of best in baseball pitching?? If it takes more do you consider including Markakis? Would these moves put us close enough to the playoffs to trade 12 years of Tillman and Jake and Nolan for 4 years of Halladay and 6 years of Holliday? How improved are we really if we dont fill holes at first and third? If we make that trade, how patient can we be in waiting for Bell or the other corner infielders to move up? These types of questions are facing the team. These trades make a big splash and no doubt would be welcomed by the negative posters here but I dont think they get us into the playoffs so what do they accomplish? Matt makes 13.5M this yera so what would it take to lure him from a perrennial playoff team in StL to the O's? 18M? With that number staring you in the face, isnt Bay a more reasonable option? Is he better than Reimold? If Fielder or GOnzalez are really available, what makes anyone here think you can get the without including Matusz, Markakis, Tillman or Jake? No one is trading us a star player for a bunch of spare parts. So where do we improve this offseason? How do we fill all our holes in one year like someone everyoffseason says is possible? That said, kudos to b who was realistic in his estimated costs on his shopping list IMO.

Good call on calling out the jackal posters.

Nevertheless, I'll repeat that I disagree: Trembley should be fired. Not because he's to blame for this awful swoon (he's not), but because he doesn't appear to be any good at managing ballgames.

Come on Slugger, You saying a guy that has been around baseball his whole life is not qualified? Also he did not tell the Orioles he was the manager, they told him.

I hear most of your argument, and you are an intelligent guy, come on man put on that old first baseman's glove and try out next year, they are looking at everything and anything.

Hey B, Nice thought, you do realize that would be three type A free agents and a whole lot of bodies that would have to go to San Diego, but I do like the thought.

I have never said that Trembley was to blame for the losing season. I in fact agree with you that Earl Weaver couldn't have won with this team. However I also believe that Earl would have won more games with the same team than Trembley did because he is a better manager which seems to be a factor that just doesn't come up in your arguments either here or with Kevin.
You talk about stability, you talk about the fans needing a pound of flesh or a scapegoat, you talk about him deserving a chance to finish the job, but you never once give any reason why you believe that Dave Trembley is a good manager. I think he handles his pitchers very poorly, I think he has blown many rally's with hit and runs, I think he has instilled no sense of discipline on his team which has gotten worse, not better in the fundamentals under his leadership whether it's failing to work the count or getting thrown out on absurd base running errors, and for that reason, because I believe he is a bad manager, I believe he should go.
I want no pound of flesh, he seems like a nice guy, I hope the organization can find another job for him, but keeping him just to maintain stability is nuts.
The argument that since the O's don't have much talent then they should be satisfied with a second rate manager makes no sense to me. Any manager who would even be considered for a job can win and look good with the Yankee's lineup and staff, it is the teams lacking in talent who are most in need of the sharpest, most strategic manager in order to get the most out of their meager resources, and that is also the best possible environment for our young players to learn the game in.
If the O's change nothing else but get a new manager, even if he is a genius, then of course they'll still stink, I am not in any way suggesting that Trembley is the sole problem or even the biggest problem on this team. Of course they need better pitching, of course they need at least one big bat, and quite frankly in order of importance those are both way higher on the list than a new manager, but pretending that a manager makes no difference or that he'll only make a difference when he finally has a lot of talent is really pretty insulting to the good managers out there. If you are going to argue for Trembley then don't give me an argument of stability or because he "deserves it", tell me why you think he is a good manager.

Lucky,

Good question. I would if it was Tillman and Reimold and maybe Berken, but no way including anything else. Remember that Toronto wants to dump his salary.

Shamrock, I am betting Lackey will have a T, H or a LA on his hat.

The reality of the managerial situation is this...regardless of who is filling out the lineup card, you better have some horses or you'll never see the playoffs. Point of fact...nobody will ever confuse the Phils Charlie Manuel with Earl Weaver. Charlie continues to win not because of his hidden genius of baseball fundimentals but rather because his lineup is loaded with one great player after another with a pretty decent pitching staff as well. His middle infield has been together since the low minors, he has one of the best power hitting, RBI first basemen in the game & an outfield that is pretty darn solid. Trust me, Trembley would have the Phillies right were they are if he managed them & ol' Charlie would have the O's right where they are if he was in charge here. Trembley has not cost us first, second third or fourth place because of his decisions, those places in the ALEast standings were cemented in stone long before he even put on an Oriole uniform. Dave didn't ask Bergesen to miss the last 2 months. He didn't ask to start the season with Eaton & Hill, those were Andy's gifts. He didn't ask Jones to go down the last month or Reimold the last 3 weeks. As far as I can tell, he didn't ask McPhail to unload Sherrill to make the backend of the bullpen putridly weak nor did he ask for Huff to be moved & in the process expose Markaikis to junk after junk the last 6 weeks of the season. Anyone can manage the Sox or Yankees or Phils with a decent amount of communication skills & basic baseball knowledge. However, managing these misfits called the Baltimore Orioles takes a pretty special person to keep coming back night after night & expecting to beat major league teams with AA talent. In reality, McPhail should be thankful Trembley even wants this sinkhole job. No, where this team is has zero to do with Dave Trwembley & everything to do with decisions made years ago as well as some stupid calls made this season by Andy & Co. McPhail added to this mess on Daves plate...he owes it to Trembley to at least help him fix it so one day in the near future he too can roll out one pretty darn good lineup night after night...just like ol Charlie.

You know Peter since everyone else is weighing in on this subject I thought I would as well. I don't think that we really have gotten an idea of what type of manager Trembley is because he has never had a good team to run. I'm not saying he is the right man for the job but he never has really had a chance.
My next point is that if you are really a true believer in Andy McPhail's plan then you have to let him choose the manager he wants or this really isn't his plan at all. Lastly, it wouldn't matter if the Orioles brought in the greatest manager in history because if they don't spend the money needed to infuse this team with talent the O's will be doomed to failure. And unlike many I don't think it would take that much. A reliable starter, a middle of the order hitter and a couple of bullpen arms would do it. Thats only 4 players needed to make this a quality team. If we had them and everyone else came back healthy next year we would see a drastic turnaround. But will Angelos open the checkbook? I hope so but deep down the sick feeling in my gut tells me otherwise.

Manager Candidates:
Grady Little: BOS,LAD
Ned Yost: MIL
Clint Hurdle: COL
Bob Melvin :ARZ
Manny Acta: WAS
Bobby Valentine: MYM, TEX
Tom Kelly: MIN
Davey Johnson: BAL
Alan Trammel : DET
Buck Showalter: TEX
Eric Wedge: CLE
John Farrell : Coach- BOS

Pete (and all who care):

I was doing a little research that might brighten some of our outlooks on next season.

The last time the Orioles lost over 100 games was in 1988. The following year the O's rebounded and had a winning season.

The similarities exist between 1988 and 2009 in that we have a young, homegrown team with a lot of prospect talent that may come together all at once.

I am predicting a few minor additions in free agency this year and a 75+ win season next year (I don't think the Orioles will win 82 or more, but after 60 wins this year I'd be pleased with 75 wins).

On the whole Trembley subject, I could go either way. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing him start out as the manager next season and if they do not compete in April and May, then let him go. That said, generally you can get a great manager in the offseason so it makes more sense to make that change after the season than during it.

So anyway, maybe the 2010 O's can do what the Comeback Kids of 1989 did after a miserable 1988 season... a glimmer of hope!

Roy,

I am with you but lets face facts. Are you saying that Trembley could not handle
Eaton
Bass
Baez
Waters
Ray
Albers
Merideth
Safarte
Walker
Lambert
Henn

He did a great job of beaking in Tillman, Bergen, Hernadez, Matusz and Bergesen. Also moved Hendrickson to the bullpen as needed. .

This pitching staff is to blame not Trembley. He did what he could to make this resemble a MLB staff. How many other teams had four rookie pitchers in baseball, you will find you have to go back a long long time.

Pete,did DT pick this coaching staff or was it picked for him?Just curious.

Manager Candidates:
Grady Little: BOS,LAD
Ned Yost: MIL
Clint Hurdle: COL
Bob Melvin :ARZ
Manny Acta: WAS
Bobby Valentine: MYM, TEX
Tom Kelly: MIN
Davey Johnson: BAL
Alan Trammel : DET
Buck Showalter: TEX
Eric Wedge: CLE
John Farrell : Coach- BOS

Nice list, some of these guys will cost you a lot. How about adding in Baylor also. Really need someone that knows the players today, not from 6-14 years ago, but a nice list.

One other quick question Pete.What do the players think of Trembley?I haven't heard anyone ask that question.

hey schmuck! don't post here often, but i don't miss reading a post. Thanks for all the wonderful insight you've given this year. While I think the O's might be better off without Dave, I realize that you probably have a lot more insight and experience into the subject. Thanks for all the hard work you've done all year.

Actually, if the Angels don't resing Lackey its a sign of trouble. They know him better than anyone.

Next year close to .500, the 2011 is when they make a move and can start talking about big free agent signings etc...

They will fill out the roster again next year with some scrap heap and mid level guys. If our manager for the next 10 years is not out there this winter, bring DT back for another year.

CB,

Here is why I think he is not qualified, and it's not scientific by any means.

I may have not played or coached baseball, but I've seen enough of it to know it. Doesn't mean I can manage the O's.

Managing in the minor leagues doesn't get you ready for the Big Leagues. The difference is night and day.

Trembley had not managed in MLB prior to the O's. What makes anyone think he has the ability to take a failed organization to the promise land? The job with a bad team would be a ton harder than say if he managed the Sox or the Yankmees.

I was watching the Tigers-Twins game last night and the announcer was quoting Derek Jeter on Joe Torre. It went something like this:

Jeter was asked as to what made Torre such a great manager. Jeter responded: He only managed when he had to.

To me that tells it all.

How many times did you see Trembley try to overmanage this team this year? Trying to tweak everything, trying to play "matchups", sitting guys down because that's what every manager would do, regardless of them being on fire.

Shamrock

The Diamondbacks need an outfielder. Other than Justin Upton their outfield is weak and we have one too many guys. I'd give them Pie, Josh Bell, Wigginton or Scott or maybe a Berken or Hernandez or Johnson (but we know that won't happen) and eat some of their salary for Reynolds. Remember, Arizona's last in the NL West. This would be a good move on their part and it meets our needs. Both sides would go for it.

Felix Pie, lf-cf
Joshua Bell, 3b at AA
Ty Wigginton, 3b-2b-1b

for

Mark Reynolds, 3b

That looks pretty good to me. What do you think?

hi peter,
D.T. has played with a dead man's hand ever sense he's been here.We as fan's only see the game's and read the blog's but you get to see and chat with the people who are the O's.They could bring back Earl and things would'nt be much better,other than some hell comming from him.Give D.T. some missing piece's and see how it gose.

The decision on whether or not to retain Trembley is emotional, but it's really not that important. Since Earl Weaver is too old, how much difference is any manager going to make?

What matters right now is snaring the No. 2 pick in the draft. Peter, why aren't you writing about that?

"Felix Pie, lf-cf
Joshua Bell, 3b at AA
Ty Wigginton, 3b-2b-1b

for

Mark Reynolds, 3"

Huh? Three unproven or marginally talented players for a guy who has 44 HRs, 101 RBIs and 24 SB? Reynolds has some holes in his game but compared to the players you list, he is a HOF. Why don't you just throw in a couple more retreads?

Reynolds is unlikely to go anywhere. Stephen Drew may be another story.

While Dave might not be the greatest manager in the world, I think there are some things that need to be learned on the job and if we continue to hire and fire 1st-time major league managers, they are all bound to make some inexperienced mistakes. I understand that Dave managed forever and a half in the minors but it's certainly not the same thing as the majors. We owe it to him to see if he can do anything with the closest thing to a competitive team we have. The team that is being marched out there every night right now looks nothing like the lineup or rotation we would have at the beginning of next year. Matusz was shut down, the other young starters appear to be out of gas, Reimold, Jones, and Bergeson have been hurt. Oh, by the way our closer and pseudo cleanup hitter were traded. Let him have until the end of May with a productive group of young pitchers, a healthy outfield, the Weiters we have seen the past few weeks, and maybe an improved corner infielder and bullpen. If he continues to lose then send him home, but not yet.

While Dave might not be the greatest manager in the world, I think there are some things that need to be learned on the job and if we continue to hire and fire 1st-time major league managers, they are all bound to make some inexperienced mistakes. I understand that Dave managed forever and a half in the minors but it's certainly not the same thing as the majors. We owe it to him to see if he can do anything with the closest thing to a competitive team we have. The team that is being marched out there every night right now looks nothing like the lineup or rotation we would have at the beginning of next year. Matusz was shut down, the other young starters appear to be out of gas, Reimold, Jones, and Bergeson have been hurt. Oh, by the way our closer and pseudo cleanup hitter were traded. Let him have until the end of May with a productive group of young pitchers, a healthy outfield, the Weiters we have seen the past few weeks, and maybe an improved corner infielder and bullpen. If he continues to lose then send him home, but not yet.

Peter,

I agree we can't blame Dave for what has happened here this year but giving him another year may be very detrimental to this team in the long run. I know he's a nice guy and I feel for him, but I don't see him as the manager that this team needs when it gets good. He is constantly making terrible in game decisions with pitching match ups (I know the bullpen is brutal, but you really don't need to use 8 pitchers in a game when you're down by 5), multiple times took young starters out of the game because of pitch counts and not how they were pitching, and overall just managed like he was scared to lose his job.

I think the best course of action is to thank him for his time and offer him another job within the organization and go out and get someone that Andy thinks will help the young players develop. I'd hate to keep Dave around next year (because "It wasn't his fault"), have the team do well, and then have the organization's hands tied because they can't fire him while the team is doing well.

I won't begin to pretend like I know who they should go out and hire, but I hope they can get a young guy with a lot of energy, that can manage a pitching staff well and is someone that the players will respect.

I love the Orioles.

Time to restrict character count in this blog! This is not the place to store your manuscript. Shorten the posts!

well, at least you have proven that O's fans have a heartbeat! Thanks for the blogs, Pete. You have made a miserable season a bit more tolerable. Here is hoping for some smarter play on and off the field and for better things next year!

I ALSO HAVE CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT GETTING RID OF TREMBLEY. I THINK THEY SHOULD GET RID OF KRAVITZ AND SAMUEL. GET A DECENT PITCHING COACH AND BASE COACH. TEACH THOSE BOYS HOW TO BUNT. EVEN I KNOW YOU SHOULD BUNT IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. ROBERTS HASN'T DONE MUCH BASE STEALING THIS YEAR EITHER. OK, I SAID MY TWO CENTS. SO LET'S JUST WAIT AND SEE NOW.

I ALSO HAVE CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT GETTING RID OF TREMBLEY. I THINK THEY SHOULD GET RID OF KRAVITZ AND SAMUEL. GET A DECENT PITCHING COACH AND BASE COACH. TEACH THOSE BOYS HOW TO BUNT. EVEN I KNOW YOU SHOULD BUNT IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. ROBERTS HASN'T DONE MUCH BASE STEALING THIS YEAR EITHER. OK, I SAID MY TWO CENTS. SO LET'S JUST WAIT AND SEE NOW.

I ALSO HAVE CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT GETTING RID OF TREMBLEY. I THINK HE NEEDS TO BE BACK IN 2010. I THINK THEY SHOULD GET RID OF KRAVITZ AND SAMUEL. GET A DECENT PITCHING COACH AND BASE COACH. TEACH THOSE BOYS HOW TO BUNT. EVEN I KNOW YOU SHOULD BUNT IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. ROBERTS HASN'T DONE MUCH BASE STEALING THIS YEAR EITHER. OK, I SAID MY TWO CENTS. SO LET'S JUST WAIT AND SEE NOW.

I don't like Trembley's managing style at all, tell me do you think Terry Francona, Jim Leyland or Ozzie Guillen would let this kind of garbage go on day in and day out? No, they would intervene and hold the players accountable like a good manager should, and maybe being a little aggressive on the basepaths now and then would help, the O's are tied for last in the AL in stolen bases at 72. This organization is moving in the right direction and needs to drop Trembley as he is a reminder of our recent losing ways, however Trembley is not to blame for this season's woes but he certainly didn't help...

Wayne,

You started off this post with a good start..... then, unfortunately, the morons took it off track.

Hey morons, especially those of you who like to write a book or give potential lineups or candidates..... GET A LIFE!

Get ready for # 13!

I mean 14 of course

Pete, uber sensitive??? WOW! I happen to think Trembley should go, but I think you have your right to your opinion as does everyone, but I think from your blog you may need to take a vacation..this is sports for goodness sakes.

Al, you think before the oriole blog season is over you'll be able to post anything but your ass-kissing defeatist rhetoric?
You and Waynee joined at the hip? You two should get a room.

GET RID OF THE PITCHING COACH KRANITZ!!!

Jim666,

Can you maybe stop ass-kissing the Orioles brobro?
As they approach 100 losses, while once again the laughing stock of the league, it's guys like you that Yank and Sox fans laugh at when they visit the Yards.

It's nerds like you that make guys like even BRob say 'man, what's he been watching'?

SO curl up in your O's Jams and listen to old Chuck Thompson replays of seasons past while you dream of the great AM Plan.

Pathetic!

c'mon al, how old are you , 13?

I mean 14 of course

brobro?

al, i didn't ask you to stop posting your ass kissing rhetoric. I was maybe wondering if you could post anything but that...I'm not here to deny your right to an opinion, or call you a -take your pick- moron, nerd, idiot, incessant whiner without any problem solving skills-I welcome it, then we can discuss it. That's if I knew what it was.So surprise me, and give me your opinion on the state of the Orioles and how you'd make it better.
I doubt you'll do it. Just thought I'd try to encourage an original thought or some decent conversation out of you for a change.

it's great the O's fans and front office folks appreciate the goodness in people, and want to keep them around b/c they are great guys, but that has got us nothing but losses.

i say, lets get some a-holes in the organization and maybe we'll win some games!

@Shamrock -

I know that most of the players I mentioned will cost draft picks. But the talent base is here to win now, and if MacPhail can grab some final pieces, I think it's worth it.

Beltre will be 31 at the beginning of next season. Not sure why you think he's washed up. Before this year, which was a down year because of injuries, Beltre batted .260+ and hit 25 homers three years in a row. Plus, he's always been a plus defender. I'm not saying make him the future of the club, but if he can be had on a one or two year deal for $7-8M per, you go for it.

Your guess is as good as mine on Wagner.

I can understand why you're confused about Kotsay. I see him as a cheap backup outfielder/first baseman type who plays excellent defense. Sounds good to me for a $1M contract.

Same with Bedard, but why not take a chance on him if he'll sign an incentive-laden deal? We all know what he can do when he's healthy.

Not sure why you're comparing a potential Gonzalez trade to the Glenn Davis trade. Davis was 30 when the O's traded for him. Gonzalez will be 28 at the start of next season. Davis had one 30 homer, 100 rbi season to his credit, and it came five years before the trade. Gonzalez needs two rbi for his third straight 30/100 campaign. Davis was a decent defender. Gonzalez is a Gold Glove defender. Also, Gonzalez's OBP has climbed from .347 to .361 to .403 over the past three seasons. His HR total has climbed from 30 to 36 to 40. And he's putting up those numbers in the worst hitters park in the game with absolutely no one else worth mentioning around him in the lineup. Imagine Gonzo in Oriole Park hitting behind Roberts, Jones and Markakis and in front of Wieters. Sounds good to me.

Oh, and finally, I don't care what the media says the Padres are doing. Until I hear from Kevin Towers that there's absolutely zero chance that he'll trade Gonzalez, anything is possible, especially if he's getting a good package in return.

You're probably right about Thome. So let's just keep Scott.

And I never said Lackey was coming here. I said the O's should pursue him, but look at my rotation. Lackey's not in it.

@Slugger -

I bet it was pretty easy for Joe Torre to "only manage when he had to" when he all he had to do was plug in a lineup, rotation and bullpen full of All Stars and future HOFers.

@al -

I'm sorry that you don't understand what a real rebuilding project looks like. I really do feel for you.

How can you not blame the most un-emotional manager to ever where an Orioles uniform? Dave Trembley sits there night after night with the same dumb look on his face. (He out to be at Star Trek convention standing in for William Shatner) Does he know when to take a pitcher out of the game? I have seen him blow more games this year by leaving a pitcher in one batter to long and falling behind by 4 runs. The O's also look like little leaguers on the bases so let's make sure Juan Samuel goes with Dave. Where would we be if we would have gotten rid of Dave early on and hired Jim Tracey? There has to be better options and if a 13 game losing streak is not enough to prove that then I don't know what it takes. His record has gotten worse over the past 3 years and if it weren't for the Nationals we would be the worst team in baseball. Let's get someone with a little fire in their blood like we had in the days of the great Earl Weaver or even Davey Johnson. We have given Dave his chance and the team has better talent this year than the past 2 but yet we will lose 100 games. Time for a change as it can't get much worse.

7 homers and 18 rbi against us this year and nobody on the pitching staff has the guts to knock Zobrist on his butt? No wonder this team gives up so many freakin runs!!

maybe we oughtta trade for Zobrist!!!

Pete,

Blogs are everyone's opportunity to express their opinions, right, wrong or indifferent! When I was a small child and the news was reporting we had landed on the moon and showed pictures my Grandmother insisted til she went to her grave they were pictures of Arizona! The point is we each can have our beliefs and through this blog can share our thoughts, that doesn't mean we all believe each others babble! In fact Pete, there is a lot you put out that I think you may have run into some California Gold, but its fair to agree to disagree. On the topic of DT, Pete I'm 180 degrees off with you! He should be fired in the postgame show following the last game. Cowherd is dead on mark, that for this team to move forward, management must take responsibility for what they are calling a MLB team! It's someone's fault, life is about accountability! Poor baserunning, poor holding runners on base, terrible line-ups, poor fundamentals, terrible bunting, over-use of the hit and run, terrible line-ups (early in the season) terrible decisions on pulling pitchers! So yes it falls at DT's feet. This is a business where nice guys fail everyday! While the O's clearly have inferior talent, what has DT demonstrated to merit getting another year?

The O's need a kick@$$ manager and an entirely new staff just to change the general attitude and kick off complacency! AM doesn't get off the blame line either, those horrid starting pitchers he signed prior to the season had a great deal to do with DT's final fate. The fans of Baltimore deserve better, after 13 years of futility, it's time we get a good manager and PA spends some money! DT got this club through a difficult transition and would make a nice Director of Minor league operations! But if he manages this team next year they lose again! Just the view of one 45 year Oriole fan in my humble opionion!

peter i read and played the debate you had in the paper. i have to agree with you.dave trembley should not be fired.i cannot think of anyone that would be or do any better than dave trembley had done this past season. i feel that the players have totally given up. the nattionals have lost 100 games,but they are still winning games showing some pride. i can't say that of the oriole players.

Pete,

Thanks for the great job you have done handling this blog. How you put up with the hateful foolishness that is often written is beyond me.

You and Roch have done a fantastic job with your respective blogs and I am hoping neither of you too become dismayed with some of the people who voice their "authoritative" opinions.

Is DT trying to lose? With four games left his starting pitcher was pitching extremely well... 2 hits, five innings... so he takes him out, turns things over to an over-used bullpen. Is that smart managing?

Jim Johnson is not Mariano Rivera, he has not earned the right to finish every (or the few) game when the O's have a lead. Why not let Baez start the 9th, he threw 9 pitches in a perfect 8th. I don't get the line of thinking.

love to see the pen step up tonight...meredith did exactly his job, 3 ground ball outs. He was a nice pickup in that trade for an expendable career minor leaguer.
It's tough to imagine DT surviving beyond this this year.
I think it's simply the nature of the Oriole job at hand. Someone was going to have to suffer the slings and arrows (and grenades) of outrageous misfortune, that being managing a losing team in an organization in major transition. I don't think the guy went into this with his eyes closed. Could he have done better? Sure. Would it have mattered? In the larger view, as the end game for this organization is to build team for the longer haul,probably very little, or not at all. I mean, let's face it, it's not likee this team had the makings of a miracle.
I'm surprised they didn't lose 100 last year, and only a crazy second half from Mora and a near career year from Huff probably prevented that. The pitching was bad and hopeless last year. This year, pretty bad as well, but hopeful with good efforts from the 3 new guys on the staff. Everyone expects Matusz and Tillman to be good, Bergeson was a pleasant surprise.
You figure 90 losses would be a good year, as long as the young players you targeted as the future of the franchise got up here and performed. It's pretty tough to argue with the play of Reimold and Wieters.Pie picked it up, and might end up being a serviceable major league player after all.
I can understand the frustration, but I just don't get the posters who seem to revel in the the failure of others, and the failure of a team of which they call themselves a fan.
You can gripe, I get it. But you offer nothing to the conversation. I really can't tell whether you have any opinion at all beyond the constant beat downs of those who do.When I ask you a question, pose a challenge, I get nothing in return. Just some silly name calling. Try joining the conversation.Take a stand. There's a challenge for you.

1
W

(Voice of Bob Uecker): THE ORIOLES WIN THE PENNANT! THE ORIOLES WIN THE PENNANT! OH, MY GOD, THE ORIOLES WIN THE PENNANT!

Sorry, got carried away there. :)

JJ had to make it interesting, didn't he?

Although I was on the fence on Dave Trembley, tonight was the last straw! To bring in Jim Johnson to save the game (he did preserve the win tonight)
is just plain stupidity. Jim Johnson has proven that he is not a closer. With the way the season has gone south, I think it would have been more prudent to see how some of the other relievers worked out as the closer. Chris Ray has closer experience. I just do not understand some of Dave Trembley's decisions. We have a team that is not a power hitting club, why not have some of the low power, fast guys try to sacrafice or bunt their way on. We have some pretty good speed on this club. I think the Orioles would have done better if they would have been managed like a National League club. I think it is time for Dave Trembley to go!

My take is that Trembley was never the long term answer. McPhail was biding his time until the time when the young guys mature--then they would shop for a more experienced manager.

I believe that next Feb. we will see Sweet Lou as the Orioles' manager.

My take is that Trembley was never the long term answer. McPhail was biding his time until the time when the young guys mature--then they would shop for a more experienced manager.

I believe that next Feb. we will see Sweet Lou as the Orioles' manager.

And so is life in the USA today....you are either with us or against us... no personal opinions count except the ones that agree with me. All others are wrong and they are probably Ravens haters too...haha!

Why I slog through this blog day after day is beyond me. I live alone, work 8 or 9 hours a day, have meals to cook, laundry, floors to clean, house parts to paint. I put those domestic chores aside too many times to read the Sun's stories and Pete.

I tire of the typos and grammar-defying gook from so many posters, not to mention the thoughtless, reactionary stuff that reminds me of town hall invective so common in the national health care debate. Yet, I am here. Not a frequent poster, but still a reader.

Why? Because I am a lifelong Orioles fan and I follow the team through thick and thin. I think the majority who comment here are fans, too, even if they are disgusted with the team, the FO and the manager. Why else would they bother? It's not easy to type words into this small box, but if you didn't care about the team, why would you even bother?

I am thankful that Roch started the blog and that Peter took the baton when it was thrust his way. Just 3 games left, and we'll be into the off-season debates of who should be on the 2010 team. But that will be secondary to playing the games, all 162 of them, with whoever we manage to fit into a Baltimore uniform.

Thanks to you Pete for perseverance, for trying to coax a civil debate and for keeping it real.

The streak is over, and that was a huge relief. Maybe we can sweep the Jays, maybe not. Still the games will be welcome excuses to avoid those household chores.

Anonymous, I truly believe that Sweet Lou's act is wearing thin. I think he will go back to the broadcast both.

I wouldn't mind seeing the O's go after Bradford because the combo of Bradford and Cla, would be a little crazy on hitters plus maybe ad a guy like Lyon and use some Jedi mind tricks on Hoffman, to let him know that Mo, is the best unless he can save in the AL East. Keep Hendrickson, as he has proven to be good in the pen and as a spot starter.

I like Mark Reynolds and there are some who say, as 1B, he could cut his errors down dramatically, but if you want him, he will cost you Jones, not Pie, Wiggy, Burt and Ernie.

I don't see the great OF depth that everyone else does. Jones, has missed significant time in his two years in Baltimore so while I don't want to say injury prone, I don't see him as a Markakis type so I wouldn't be too quick to dump Pie.

To any O's fan in AZ, is it true that Chad Tracy, could light it up as a DH? I've heard that his knees can't take the NL, but as a DH, he could be a .300 hitter w/ 20+ HRs and 80-90 RBIs. I think the O's have to think outside the box this winter because this team is a mess.

I don't know who I want as Manager, but I am skeptical of a bench coach or anyone with zero MLB experience as a Manger. I think there is too much at stake to fool around.

Lastly, is anyone else concerned that the O's might think guys like Reimold, will pick it up where they left off and the same with the young pitchers? Second year slumps are so common that I hope the O's have a plan (not THE plan, but another plan).

BTW, what the hell was DT, talking about when asked about the state of the pen? He sounded like the Joker!

It looked like there would be no way that the Birds would lose 100 games this season but then...13 losses in a row?

How do you do that?

Here I am, like I imagine many of my friends here, clinging to every pitch, saying come on let's win 3 of the final 4.

Why?

Pride.

Hey Pete, I know what ya mean, I try to explain that Dave T is and has been a really good person for bringing along young talent. Friends keep saying they need a Billy Martin type but I think that would be bad for the young talent we have right now.

Also, THE ORIOLES WON, THE ORIOLES WON

sweetlou, i cannot imagine him managing the O's...but imagine his face when pie walks into the locker room.The first thing he'll do is try to send him down to Iowa.

If you have not seen Dave T's limitations as a manager by now--all those things apart from injuries and trades of veterans for future possibilities--I don't know how I can convince you that Dave T is not what the Baltimore Orioles want now as their manager.

I want a leader who manages with a visceral desire to win in the dugout every day. I am sick of the posing, the tilt of the head, the sign of infinite patience...or God knows what that look is supposed to convey. (Dave T started out as Captain Kirk but ended up not so boldly going where so many men have gone before.)

I am tired of seeing a hot hitter not appearing in the lineup the next day because apparently he was not scheduled to play. And when was this schedule made? In spring training?

I want a manager who has the guts to make a move because he thinks it gives the Orioles the best chance to win today. Not making moves because they will be easy to explain in the post game interviews--should anyone there even bother to ask him about those moves.

I want a manager who can lead. One who the Baltimore Oriole players each day in the dugout know is driving this team to do every thing it can to win tonight's ballgame.

The crazy hit and runs called earlier in the season which led to Aubrey Huff being gunned down at second 5 times.

The failure to bunt when it gave the team a chance to get a guy down to second with one out in a tie game.

The inept handling of the pitching staff all season.

In short, Dave T is locked into schedules and plans. He is not a leader with baseball instincts. He has been a committed man to the organization and he deserves respect for that. But Dave T is not a good Major League manager. He cannot improvise.

When he lost his cool this season, he publicly called out Felix Pie. That was not right. Pie had been struggling but he had been busting his butt all along. All this did was contribute to scapegoating of a guy during down times for the team. Pie deserves credit for bouncing back.

Who would I like to be the manager of the Baltimore Orioles in 2010? Davey Johnson would be a good choice. Bringing him back would signal to Oriole fans that Peter Angelos understands that things fell apart after Davey left. This guy is our original #15 (Matt Wieters could go back to his college days and minor league #32). Davey's return would be a fascinating story. He is a gifted manager.

My next choice? Buck Showalter. Watching and listening to Buck on ESPN over the past year has made me enamored with his drive and quirky baseball mind. Buck wants to win. He would be fun.

Finally, if Tom Kelly would like to rejoin Andy MacPhail and bring a young Oriole team to contention, that would not be bad at all. Kelly is a sound, attentive manager.

41 games out! the number just looks cartoonish

Will--You're right, it is a cartoon image. Forty-one lengths back is what you expect to see in thoroughbred racing when a horse is eased because he or she is injured or hopelessly outclassed.

Hang in there, as I tell my sons who are 18 and 15 years old, and have never experienced the joy I had growing up with the Baltimore Orioles as the best team in baseball.

We are getting it out of the paddock now and it is a fresh, new day.

Trembley's tenure falls into the same category as Sam Perlozzo's. Both great baseball guys who didn't have the pitching talent to succeed. Bottom line. Our beloved Davey Johnson couldn't win with the pitching staff that has been here. Even with the guys coming through the system, a top of the line starter and alot of bullpen help is still needed. Albers, Sarfate, Castillo, etc. are not good enough to win in this division.

So Dave Taylor,

You want to throw at Zobrist, possibly causing injury and then trade for him?

I must admit it would be nice to have him here.

Slugger,

I kind of see your argument, one way then I see it a little less clear. You think that he over plays the percentages of chance? Earl did the same thing, he always used the numbers to have the edge the better odds. The big overwhelming difference is Earl had something to work with, same as Torre. Do you remember the pitching staff the Yankees had when Torre won his first world series in NY? Cone, Pettitte, Wells, Rivera, Hidecki, Hernandez and so many others. Have the orioles had anything close to that in the last 12 years? It is not the manager it is the talent. If I had that kind of talent, I would do exactly what Jeter likes about Joe Torre, watch them take the lead in the first inning and hold it until the end!

I think Bay is going to the M's. He has a home there and I heard he's not found of the 24/7 media coverage in Boston.

Depending on what they do with 1B and DH, I heard that Freddy Sanchez's option isn't going to be picked up by the Giants. He can play 3B and has played 3B. Freddy, is a great hitter that wont knock in a ton of runs, but will hit over .300 with 30+ doubles and in my opinion, the more guys that you have that can hit the ball and not go through insane streaks like Luke, the more chances there are to score and avoid prolonged losing streaks.

The Cubs are cutting back like 50 mil in payroll so if Lee, is available, the O's should take him while Bell and Snyder, mature in the minors. The guy is a great all around hitter.

Barry, has Buck Showalter, said he wants to mange again? No doubt he is a good guy and a good manager, but I didn't know he had any interest in going back to the grind. I like Melvin. He didn't have a hell of lot to work with in AZ in terms of offense, but he got the most out of that team. I would think he would be a front runner.

I am changing my vote from Markakis to Bonnie Hunter, for MVO. Anyone who can deal with Jimmy for 365 days, deserves it. I was almost waiting for him to say that if you put the losses in the win column and the wins in the loss column, the O's would be the wild card team.

Pete,

I was waivering but you convinced me with your arguments. Give Trembley one more year. The benefits of stability outweight the potential benefits of better roster and in game management. Trembley may grow as a manager in these areas, and I'd give him another year to do so.

Here's a heads up for you. Trolls have invaded Roch's blog months ago and have really caused a lot of chaos and mayhem.
Your problem may be with the same people. I'm sure you and Roch can get together and compare source IP addresses from these trolls and see if they really are the same people.
BTW - Dave shouldn't be back next year but not because of anything he did wrong in September. In September he was forced to play 7 card stud with 3 cards. No one could win under those circumstances. I just believe he made poor decisions handling the pitching staff and his line-ups left a lot to be desired.
I also don't believe he can stand up to the players. He benched Mora for 3 out of 4 games stating he wants to go in another direction. Mora compains to the press and Mora is back as the everyday player. If you can defend that one, I am all ears.

It makes no difference who the manager is next year. If you don't have the players, you're not going to win. The front office hasn't been hiring stupid men for the job. The previous managers have known the game well.
If Trembley was the manager of the NYY they still would've won 100 games. If Sam Perlozzo were managing the NYY they would've won 100 games too. NY has the players.

I'm not a DT hater! I just question many of his management decisions during a game. In particular, last night and a game sometime last week he had Baez breeze through the 8th only to start Johnson in the 9th. My decision would have been to let Baez start the 9th and bring in Johnson if Baez got into trouble. It's simple - DON'T FIX SOMETHING THAT ISN'T BROKEN!

Todd,
Personally I would not go for Bay, unless they package Reimold in some kind of deal, that could fill a hole elsewhere. Otherwise, I think I would keep Reimold and keep him in left because he looks to be headed to good career, and would rather give him another year to prove he is no fluke. The main position player that would change my mind would be Matt Holiday. I am sure that would cost the Orioles 20 million a year for 8 years, and he will get that from somebody. He, like young Bell, was a bad fielding third baseman converted to the outfield. and who knows if he can come into the infield and play first. So if you sign either Bay or Holiday you would say goodbye to both. Jason Bay, I really like as a player, but he is not a difference maker. The Derrick Lee signing would make the most sense, he is an excellent first baseman with all the tools. If they would bring in one person that could help this team on the offensive and defensive side it would be Lee. Heck you can even negotiate a new one year deal with Mora, bat him 8th to have his glove in the game to give the Orioles breathing time to replace Melvin. Lee will cost the Orioles though, but that would be a good move for them. They would solve a lot of problems with getting Lee.

But if they do not address the other areas (pitching) they will lose 90 games with Lee.

ONE MORE THING... Why don't my beloved O's teach the "Oriole way" from Paul Richards thru the Earl Weaver days?????????

Way to go O's and Nats! Can anyone recall when two teams sharing a regional market accounted for more than 200 losses? We're at 201 and counting. MASN people must be going crazy!

Though I would love to see Dave T. kept in the Oriole system in a minor role, as I think he can bring players to develop, there is little discipline on display here. I saw the O's in Yankee Stadium and there was no BP and the centerfielder was playing catch-toss with his out of the suitcase workout shorts and non- descript warmup shirt on, no uniform, no official pregame outfit. Call me old-school, but when the team decides if they will have BP or infield practice on a daily basis, or the manager thinks they play good enouigh without, it is time for a change. Bring back the CLASS.

Though I would love to see Dave T. kept in the Oriole system in a minor role, as I think he can bring players to develop, there is little discipline on display here. I saw the O's in Yankee Stadium and there was no BP and the centerfielder was playing catch-toss with his out of the suitcase workout shorts and non- descript warmup shirt on, no uniform, no official pregame outfit. Call me old-school, but when the team decides if they will have BP or infield practice on a daily basis, or the manager thinks they play good enouigh without, it is time for a change. Bring back the CLASS.
________________________

Sometimes events at various stadium have a bearing on there being BP or not. A lot of teams don't have BP day games after night games, plus most stadiums now have batting cages inside that players use. Just because some one is playing catch in centerfield wearing a tee shirt and shorts is really really nit picking. I'm surprised you don't ask players to dive after balls that are hit during BP. Bottom line: the current roster has a lot of players on it that don't deserve to be on a major league club. That will be taken care of. As far as taking infield goes, that's a thing of the past with all teams. If I am not mistaken it was Dave Trembley who brought it back for one game of each series. It's all about money now. The players union balks at things too. After all, a .250 hitter making $8 million a year can't be asked to do things like take BP, infield practice, bunt or wear a uniform while playing catch in the outfield. And yes, that was a dig at the players union and mediocre players earning at least 8 million more than they are worth.

fire friedgen

Trembley is far from the only reason for this miserable failure of a team. And bring in another Mazilli/Perlozzo/Trembley is not going to turn this team around. With that said, I believe Trembley should be fired. I point to his supposed strengths. He is supposed to be good with young players yet the young players are learning quickly to sleepwalk through games. And he is supposed to strong on fundamentals and yet this team is a disaster when it comes to fundamentals.

Dave, Nice observation. I can think of three that came close, and two that did it. The Boston Redsox and Beaneaters in 1906 and the Philadelphia Athletics and Phillies several times, ,you might want to check that but I remember reading about it in a book. The ones of latethat really came close were the Washington Senators and the Baltimore Orioles in 1955, and the Yankees and Mets in 1967 and the Oakland A's and the Giants came up one short in 1979. I am willing to bet that you will have to go back 100 years or more.. I am sure the Cardinals, Browns or Kansas City Athletics or one of the older franchises hit that mark one of those years,they played less games back then. remember that before 1958, there was no west coast teams, most of them were on the East Coast. .

The Nats have an excuse, they were completely tanked and all good players were gone by the time they came to our Nations Capital. It was worse than having an expansion team. The Orioles have been struggling on their own doing for now 13 years and Angelos got extra money from the MLB move committee for how badly it will effect his fan base. Of course that is not the case, fans do not come to watch a losing franchise for 13 straight years, if they were the team they were 30 years ago, the attendance would be good, ratings would be good and more corporate input.. I just hope they can turn it around.

Heres a name that might blow peoples minds: BJ Surhoff. He still lives in Baltimore. He loved playing here (I think we all remember the press conference when he was traded to the Braves). He's played every position other than pitcher. And he really excelled in the fundamentals of the game.

With all that said, I don't think its going to happen. But I think it would be a good change.

To all the those people talking about moving Hernandez and Berken to the pen: When did unsuccessful starting pitcher translate to successful relief man? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel too good about 2 on, 1 out and Berken coming in...

Actually Gerry,

Surhoff is a good choice, bring him in as a coach under Trembley next year and if Trembley does not do well have Surhoff replace him. I think before MacPhail started his job here, there was talk about it. I wonder if he would be interested.

Breaking young guys in as starters is not always the best idea, these guys were rushed into the rotation when they should have been in long relief and spot starting when they were promoted to the big leagues, instead of earning the rotation spot like it once was. The Orioles were not afforded that luxury because of Eaton and Hill being totally ineffective and Simon getting injured and Hendrickson should have been in the bullpen the whole year.

Do I want Berken coming in when the game is on the line, probably not, but would I want him coming in if the starter was ineffective by the third inning and we were down by three or more runs, yes.

I think a change would be good all around. Mainly I am not sure how players respond to him.

What gave me initial pause was the Mora incident earlier in the season.

Just because I want Tremblay replaced doesn't mean I'm a Tremblay hater. I simply do not think he is right for the job based on his performance not who was on the roster.

Poor fundamentals persist. Bad base-running, no bunting, overthrowing cut offs, that go along with his questionable use of his team.

Why go to the yard on Sunday and see the bench play? Not 1 or 2 but the whole sub list. Why not let the relievers go 2 or 3 innings if they are sharp rather than keep changing them so we can find a cold arm that will give up some runs.

How many times has he brought relievers to "play the percentages" without checking the stats to see who the batter hits best. And it is Not always righty/righty and lefty/lefty that is statistically best.

Why did he stick with Mora all September instead of testing out Justin Turner? Melvin will be cutting grass and playing with his kids next summer.

Why hasn't he stressed WINNING every chance he gets so everyone knows losing is NOT ACCEPTABLE! His "I know you are trying hard so take some time to do something fun before coming to the park tomorrow" sounds like the mush fed to the underachievers in our schools.

The list of examples is endless and I don't want to write a book. I want a new manager for the O's. This team has good potential for next year. I want a motivator on the bench not someone who wants to be everyone's Granddad.

LOL!

There really are only about 12 posters on this blog.

No one's right and no one's wrong. It is crazy seeing how people lean however.

There are..

Guys like Slugger - You're a funny guy, but nothing's ever going to please you, not even when/if they ever improve.

Guys like Jim66 - Nothing ever bothers you about losing. You just just keep turning the other cheek until you actually believe there are positive ways of losing. You're the constant 'wait til next year' guy. You'll be posting the same stuff next year after 94 losses, claiming victory of course!

Guys like Al - You don't have alot to say, but you're hilarious. I can tell you hate the losing though, thus you have credibility.

Guys like Christian - You keep writing long post as if people really care enough to read everything you have to say. You write lineups, possible rosters, managers, etc.... It's hilarious! Hey, maybe people do read em. Go for it!

Guys like Wayne - It just sure seems like you get it. You get beat up because you demand excellence and accountability, but you don't get caught up in the back and forth banter.

Anyway, keep it coming everyone. It's actually entertaining stuff - sometimes!

The Orioles cannot compete with the Yankees/Sox for the best power hitters. They need to move the fences back and compete based on home grown pitching, superior defence, fast players and MUCH BETTER FUNDAMENTALS.

pete -

There are three types of people here:

1. Guys like Slugger, al and all of the Anonymouses who hate losing and have become so jaded by it that they can't see any hope for the future. These kind of guys are the ones whose posts are entirely meaningless. They usually call out other people for having hopeful ideas. Their posts are typically full of insults as well.

2. Guys like Wayne who hate losing and have become somewhat jaded, but it only leads to a kind of defeatist attitude. They're not very hopeful, but they can still see a good point when it's made.

3. Guys like me, jim66 and CB Coach who hate losing, but see that Andy MacPhail is the best front office leader this team has had since Pat Gillick. We see that MacPhail has the team moving in the right direction and we're excited about the young talent base that's already here.

Everyone hates losing, pete. No one thinks there are "positive ways of losing". There are just some people here who see that this team has a foundation in place that could put them back on top for several years.

It's easy to get to the point where you have no hope for this team. We've been the laughing stock of baseball for the past 12 years. But, at this point, it's also easy to see that there has been some monumental change over the past two and a half years. But only if you have the right attitude.

Good posts all. With this epic embarrassment of a season almost over, lets turn our eyes to the offseason and the hope that 2010 will be the year that this team starts to define itself as a yearly contender!

For all those bemoaning the state of the O's, remember that it could be worse. We're not the Nationals.

Are you old enough to have been holding the ammo?

fire trembley
fire friedgen
fire zorn
fire riggleman
the state of sports in this region is pathetic. the longer folks make excuses the longer we will have crappy teams around us.

fire trembley
fire friedgen
fire zorn
fire riggleman
the state of sports in this region is pathetic. the longer folks make excuses the longer we will have crappy teams around us.

Pat Gillick inherited quality players and some decent pitchers, then spent his a$$ off and mortgaged the future. Look at Toronto and Seattle. Both haven't recovered since he pillaged them. Philly is next.

Any idiot can buy a team, it takes some smarts to be able to build a team to last.

IMHO, Dave Trembley deserves to be back in 2010.

Perspective from New England: you all should hear Red Sox fans when Terry Francona does something out of the ordinary. They go ballistic - and the man has two WS to his credit.

My point is: don't jump on Dave when his talent pool is dwarfed by the AL East.

Could he manage the Dodgers in 2009 to a WS championship? Rhetorical question, sure. But flip it around, and does Joe Torre pump 85 wins out of the 2009 Orioles?

I'm not sure BJ Surhoff is a good idea. Does he even have any managerial experience or even want to manage? If he's serious about managing, then he should pay his dues and manage in the minors or coach first. Just because he was a hard-nosed player etc doesn't mean he can be a successful manager, especially on a young team.
If the O's are looking at replacing Trembley, then they better be selective about who they bring in. "Blasts from the pasts" like Davey Johnson/Bobby Valentine, Cito Gaston/Buck Martinez amy not be the answer. For example, the honeymoon is over with Cito in Toronto as the players are complaining, particularily the young ones.
Many qualified managers that are looking for work might not find the O's job too attractive and we might end up with second tier candidates who aren't much better or even worse that DT.
Personally, I think the manager is the least of the O's worries and can go either way re: Trembely staying or leaving.
I'm just saying that do some due dilligence. Surely there are some good managers somewhere and we don't bring in a recycled manager that has been fired 4 times or someone that is out of touch with the game.

Of course the O's will sweep the J's these last 3 just to keep the managerial job foggy.

Kelly was last place with the Twins many seasons but when he had talent he won 2 WS.

And what was Torre's record with the Cards before they actually putting the $$ into getting talent.

Those of you who are short-sighted miss out on what Pete has correctly observed - that after years of ineffective quick-fixes, McPhail has rebuilt the organization from the ground up. The next year, or the year after, we will see the fruits of those labors.

I agree with your opinion in the 9/30/09 Baltimore Sun debate "Should O's keep Trembley?" How can his ability to develop players and lead be appraised objectively at a time when the team re-building process is at least 1 year from it's projected completion and when so many players who were expected to be contributing were traded, not ready to be promoted to the majors, or injured. Yes, the team needs to make some major changes, but a fresh face in the manager's office? Why can't people see that the Oriole's managerial revolving door is not the solution? How does Kevin Cowherd conclude that if Trembley should not be judged solely by the second half of the 2009 season, that if he is "a decent handler of young players", "a class act" who "never got a fair shot at being a big league manager", that now is the time "to see what someone else can do"? I think that Dave Trembley has been a steadying influence, supported the players, and made mostly solid on-field decisions. He has earned the opportunity to complete the work that Andy MacPhail and the Oriole's organization have planned.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's Trembley!

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About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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