Pete,

What do you thik about it though.

Their singing to the media tells me that they know they won't be here past this season and are taking a coward's way out. I agree 100% that the manager is not the one running the basis; however you don't throw your team under the buss in the media, let alone a rookie like Pie. He is making mistakes because he is hustling and forcing the issue more than he should. I'll take that 100 times over Aubrey Huff jogging to first.

Oh and Samuel also should not be in the big leagues unless the O's need a backup bat boy.

Guthrie is showing in his last 2 starts that he's pitching with some of the flair and finesse that he had last year. And good to see some solid defense – and just ONE base-running gaffe – for a change.

Tons and tons of posts over that last game, Pete. Wonder if a win will generate as many

They are 100% on, Pete. Refreshing. Someone calling out today's modern ballplayer and their faulty mentality about 'Hitting Only'.

Simply my opinion, but while today's players are probably unmatched historically as to hitting development, I'd have to say in every OTHER aspect of the game, they are woefully inferior. That makes for infuriating spectating. Egos, egos, egos. Trembley and Samuel are a refreshing breeze in what has become a stale and pathetic sport.

I've defended Dave Trembley a lot this year to my friend, who would have fired him long ago if he had that power. But I'm getting really sick of Trembley calling out Felix Pie and only Felix Pie. Is it just me, or is the third time (at least) that Trembley has thrown PIe under the bus this year. Give me a break --- it's fine if you want to rant to the media --- frankly I think the team could use a good kick in the butt --- but you can't single out one guy for mistakes the whole team is making. That screams "weak manager" to me, and frankly it sounds like the pressure's getting to Trembley. Could it just be that Dave is worried about getting fired?

As for Samuel, sorry, but I've seen him wave too many guys home this year when they had no chance of making it for him to get on his high horse about accountability --- he says he's "man enough" to admit his mistakes, but I didn't read too many admissions in his quotes.

It's been a terrible second half, as usual, and this story did not help very much --- particularly when the real story of the night should have been a second consecutive quality start from Guthrie.

I will agree with the statements about Pie being singled out. It is not a coincidence that they jump so hard over him but won't do it over their baby boy Brian. Or any of the other high-salaried players.

In that sense, the criticism is entirely weak. Truthfully, but weak, selective, low-risk targeting. Get some nuts, guys.

So now the coaches say what the fans have always lamented. The players are lacksidasical when it comes to fundamentals. They also want to get on Sports Center with the big hits. Here's a thought they ought to keep in mind. Teams not named the Red Sox or Yankees get on Sports Center by being in playoff contention. If the O's can develop some talent, they won't win unless they also pay attention to and execute on the little things.

It just seems like this franchise has too many miles to go. It's tough trying to be optimistic about the future.

thank god those 2 will be gone soon!!!!!!!

Pete--I just finished reading Jeff's article. Sad stuff. I think you know that I watch every Oriole game and am a pretty close observer. And I am not a guy to take cheap shots. I love the Baltimore Orioles.

Juan Samuel was a pretty good ball player. Being the third base coach of the Orioles is not his niche.

This Pie bashing by Dave Trembley and the coaching staff, I believe, is a reflection of their frustration with their understanding that Felix was brought in as Andy's guy. I don't know how good Felix is in the clubhouse. I don't know if he has had to overcome some resentment as being a favorite of Andy.

But I do know this. Since Felix has been an Oriole, trash has been directed his way by some participants on this blog and many on Roch Kubatko's blog that has been grossly unfair.

The words "stupid" (by a former Baltimore broadcaster now living in Seattle) and "Gumby" by a friend of Roch who he doesn't bother to call to account, have been thrown at Pie.

He has been scapegoated.

I'm tired of reading this crap.

Let Felix Pie be a Baltimore Oriole and treat him like every other ball player wearing the Orange and Black.

Trembley is an idiot. He said: "I take full responsibility, but the player should be accountable" . Someone tell this moron that responsibility and accountability in this context are synonymous:

Definition: Responsibility - The quality of being responsible as moral, legal or mental accountability

Definition: Accountability - An obligation to accept responsibility.

If jackass takes FULL responsibility, how can the player be held accountable?

I happen to believe MacPhail is a savvy enough as a business manager to know that this loser does not deserve to come back next year.

So, what is their job? Sit back and let the wins roll in? From their quotes, it sounds like they want to be analysts and not coaches. They say they think they are accountable then they lay all accountability at the players. That quote from Samuel is really rich. He's been horrible on it seems to be the only thing he wants to take responsibility for, and that is sending runners home from third. I don't care how utterly clueless the collection of players they got might be, it's their job to make them better. I don't see Crowley or Kranitz whining to the media, and they've endured plenty of flack the last few years, the stuff said by these two is really off-putting.

38 DAYS!

"Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small numbers formidable, procures success to the weak, and esteem to all."

-George Washington

FIRE THESE MOPES!!!!!!!!!!!

Pete,

The article said Pie was called into the manager's office for a meeting. Any idea what it was about?

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Pete's reply: I would think it was about his seeming inability to grasp game situations.

outrageous
unbelievable
unprofessional
shifting blame
tasteless

they didn't really just say all these things did they?
Samuel should be gone yesterday and Trembley the day before for these...... did i say ridiculous comments?

You have to love when people say "I accept responsibility" and then blame the others

Wow!

please Mr. Macphail,
Bring the proffessionals back Crowley and Kranitz
and please let the whiners go Trembley and Samuel

Barry,

What else would you expect from the MASN dopes? Fidel Castro would be thrilled to have these propaganda puppets serve him. I just skimmed over a couple of blogs there and I feel I need to wash my brain with soap. If Angelo's dedicated half the effort he dedicates to "positive" BS propaganda on MASN to the product he puts on the field, we'd be contenders.

and another thing

Is this "respecting the game" airing your dirty laundry out.

I think Felix Pie is my favorite Oriole and probably some others too because of his enthusiasm and smile and humbleness..

and those above him single him out like this????

are you kidding me???

as that famous poet once said "ARE WE NOT MEN"

If Trembley and Samuel come back next year.....I'm not

Bill F,

No chance they are coming back. It is hard enough for reps to sell Oriole tickets unless the sox or yanks are in town and keeping those 2 bums trembley and sam will cost the Orioles some serious coin. Angelos wont have that bro lol he loves money

I am actually glad both DT and JS came out and said this stuff and I hope they keep it up until the end of the season so they get fired for sure.

This is not the first time Dave has thrown Pie under the bus.........Pie runs the bases like Stevie Wonder, but he should be talked to behind close doors.....along with Mopey Melvin Mora, and everybody else who is not "running smart". If you want to watch a team that runs the bases the right way.....check out an Angels game. These guys make running the bases a weapon.

I do think they're picking more on Pie than some of these rather worthless veteran players. Don't know if anyone else caught it. In the 8th inning against Chicago, Mora was busy jawing with a fellow countryman and the opposing pitcher that brushed hime back. He. later walked with 2 outs. Luke Scott popped out and Mora only went halfway to second and stopped. Obviously thinking there was one out instead of two. Can anyone explain why we continue to play Mora, who is simply a dead out.

Just read JZ's story. This is why DT must go. It isn't just the baserunning - what about all the other boneheaded plays and general lack of hustle. Just like any business with problems like these, it's easy to see that management is the issue (or at least the first issue). I don't care if we lose 120 games but continued stupid mistakes are unacceptable for a team with marginal talent. They worked on baserunning in spring training????? What the heck have the "coaches" been doing since then? Do they just have to show up after Opening Day??

He ripped Pie earlier this season cause he was too scared to rip anyone else and drastically limited his playing time.

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Pete's reply: Is it possible that DT is on Pie because Pie is a young player who isn't a lot cause, and he wants to drill this stuff into him now so he can improve? Whatever he says about Mora is going to go in one ear and out the other and won't matter after this season.

Pete--I read a response here by "Q" tonight after the ball game. That comment is no longer here in the log.

Why?

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Pete's reply: Because he used profanity. I don't have time to edit out the curse words, so I kill the comment if it goes over the line. I'm no prude, but if you can't say it on TV, you probably shouldn't say it here. This is a newspaper website so I abide by the newspaper's editing rules.

I have to take issue with the idiot (JZ) who wrote the article. He starts by saying:

"A day after Felix Pie's two gaffes on the bases contributed to a 7-6 loss to the Minnesota Twins, ...."

How did any of Pie's "gaffes" on the bases contribute to the loss when we were winning or tied at the time he made them? Did Pie give up the winning run in bottom of the 9th?

Send this moron to work for MASN. He seems to fit the mold.

Really you guys have a problem with it? Why do you think the Cubs let go of Pie? He needs a lot more maturing. And as far as it goes with the coaches they did get on other players.

They needed to air it out. The club needs to play sound fundamental baseball, and they are not. Dumb baserunning, throwing where there are no players, Not being able to move runners, inability to steal bases, throwing to the wrong bag, not hitting cutoffs. All of these things will get a manager fired, but regardless the player will be back, and make the same mistakes. You going to fire the next coach also? I for one agree with the coaches. Some players will never get it, some can learn.

As people that dedicated their life to the game longer than a guy has been alive, I can see where they're coming from in wanting to see someone quit playing like a donkey non-stop. BRob had a few, but Pie is still doing it, still having the closed door meetings and then doing it again.

They said the same thing that gets commented online all the time. Some guys on the roster aren't major leaguers and you can be damn sure if Pie had an option he'd be asleep in Norfolk right now.

It's not scapegoating anyone though. Pie isn't doing it and he isn't someone on their first trip to the bigs. He's out of options because he's been around the block. He's been given chances in his career. This is not someone on their first time up.

I wish BRob got called out more, but he's responded to Trembley sticking with him. Pie isn't responding to good cop, now he needs to get bad cop. Funny thing is, bad cop worked out for him tonight.

There's psychology to baseball beyond getting yourself off the hook (which Trembley at least wasn't trying to do at all).

CB Coach--The fact that these comments came from a "player's manager"--who has again publicly singled out the same guy, Felix Pie (why is he the scapegoat?)-- and a third base coach who has shown that he is not cut out for that role, shows me that you do not get it.

I agree the Pie bashing even though I respect him as a player and look forward to his development. Pie has been involved in some of the most stupid mistakes I have ever seen in modern baseball, if they were one and done mistakes I could look past that but it seems to be reoccurring. Pie needs some time in the Minors at some point he has talent but he needs to learn as well. I also agree with the Managers assuming responsibility for players mistakes, but there is a point where you have to look at the player too. B-rob has made some mistakes this season but overall he has played well over the season, Pie on the other hand has had limited at bats/games and his mistakes stick out like a sore thumb on his stat sheets.

CB and James,

I bet you could compile a four hour long DVD full of Many Ramirez blunders during his career in MLB, whether it is defense or running the bases, but you don't see coaches call him out. Part of it is because his bat is priceless.

As someone else said, Pie is out-hitting Weiters right now. How is Pie's base running mistakes any different from your star players making bad decisions at the plate, swinging at junk in the dirt, getting behind in the count and striking out looking, and not pushing the runners over? Why isn't Markakis, B-Rob, Weiters, the entire pitching staff being called out?
I'm willing to bet that we're losing more games due to lack of timely hitting and bad pitching than base running blunders. Why is Pie the only name that comes out of the manager's mouth? Why wasn't Aubrey Huff called out for lack of effort? Why wasn't Izturis scalded for not being able to drop a bunt down? Why wasn't B-Robs name mentioned for forgetting how many outs there were?

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Pete's reply: Cmon Slugger, forgetting how many outs there are or tagging up on a foul ball 110 feet away are not the same as swinging at a slider that drops off the table. That's just silly.

Slugger, I agree with you. BRob, should have been called out for forgetting how many outs there were, as well as for his lack of hustle and focus during much of the season. If DT, wants to respect the game like he says, start by calling out guys regardless of the size of their paycheck. Michael Aubrey, you might be next!

Juan Samuel, is an idiot. Juan, has no business being a coach for a MLB team (even the Orioles). He was a good player, but his instincts as 3B coach are awful.

Just when I start to give DT, some credit for the O's playing tough, he pulls the pick on Felix crap again so what's next? Is he going to trash Amber on her choice of glasses?

BTW, Jim Hunter, doesn't belong in a broadcast booth. Are most broadcasters going to root for the team they are calling games for? Sure, but when you have nothing, but positives to say, you lose creditability. I know a lot of guys on here, hate Thorne, but he says what's own his mind and doesn't sugarcoat things and the same goes for Jim Palmer, but Hunter, is so far gone, he wont right off this season till the O's are mathematically eliminated.

To paraphrase Anonymous, Fire Hunter!!!!!!!!!!

Brian Bass is the one who should be singled out. He and only he, blew the game. You come into a game with a three run lead and can't get anyone out, that's far more to blame than Pie's base running.

Fire Trembley!

Why not simplify matters and call this malady Jeff Stone Syndrome?

Y'know before I was thinking that the great Os fans on here was being alittle too hard on Dave Trembley, but after hearing what he said about the responsibility of the baserunning on last night's game? BY BAD! Its clear that Dave and the entire coaching staff (except for T Bone) has got to go! Crowley with his outdated hitting techniques, the bullpen coach, Rick Kranitz, the whole shebang. I mean, it really stifled me! Then if the base coaches aren't responsible, then what in thee hell are they out there for??? Keep the runners company? To ensure the other team don't jump them?? And this is baseball 101! It almost seems like these youngsters on the team are coaching themselves! Well screw it then! Batboys, don't worry about getting the bats and hitting equipment, ballgirls don't worry about chasing foul balls, let the players do it! Like Dave said, "This is the big leagues!"
If there are no changes in the offseason......

CB,
Weather there is some truth to the statements isn't really the point...
It's just classless to only pint out errors of your inferiors who are the "weakest". ....and really Samuel is going to say Pie doesn't belong in the major leagues????
Hasn't he hit over 300 in the last two months?
Why has Pie been given this oppurtunity? because the GM wanted him to have it....Probably not a a good idea to indirectly criticize the GM like this...perhaps it is Samuel who no longer belongs in the major leagues, anyway it won't be with the O's...... thankfully

Suck it up all you critics of Trembley! In the real world you get questioned for serious mistakes that have implications on the results. Felix make 2 serious blunders as well as others over the last several months. A little humiliation goes along way towards not making the same mistake twice. Typically results follow,how did Pie do the next day-case in point!
Good move skipper!

This smacks of coachs who know they are about to be let go, demonstrating to the world just why they are going to lose their jobs. When Samuel says some of these players don't belong in the major leagues, just who is he talking about. Melvin Mora, who has made more base running blunders than any other Oriole? Aubrey Huff, who kept getting thrown out at second, or picked off first on Trembly's stupid run and hit schemes. Brian Roberts, who gets picked off first at an alarming rate for such a good base stealer. We all know they are talking about Felix Pie. I don't know why they have it in for this guy, but they obviously do. Pie does need some work on his baseball acumen, but he is a high ceiling rookie that has flashed some of his brilliance with his glove, and bat. He has also made some really tragic errors in the field, and on the base paths. Pie does need coaching, and time. Juan Samuel also needs to remember that one of the base coachs primary jobs is to remind the runners of the game situation. I mean Juan Samuel is not out there just to wave runners home, put up the stop sign, and field ground balls. He is supposed to be talking to the players when they are on base, and making sure they are doing the right thing for the situation. So, if it really ticks Samuel off that Pie didn't break for home when he was standing on third with two outs on a 3-2 count. He only needs to blame himself for not reminding Pie, instead of assuming Pie would do the right thing. What was Samuel doing, making out his grocery list?

Fire Trembly and Samuel

Get the fat bast@rd Dave Trembley out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Samuel doesn’t deserve to be in the major leagues. If I was him I would feel lucky to be employed in this bad economy with such poor coaching skills and keep my mouth shut.

I fell it was bad form for the Manager and a coach to call out players (especially individually) in the press. This does NOT help Trembley's case for returning next yr IMO. The base running has been terrible. The place to call out a player is in the Manager's office, one-on-one. The team is floundering, but the Manager has to help hold things together, not add fuel to the fire.

I had been a Trembly supporter for his entire tenure, up to the moment of that article. I had overlooked Trembly's mistakes and had thought he was a decent manager. I was wrong.

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. But, I do not remember hearing Trembly or a coach speaking directly to even one of the mistakes that they had made.

I also don't remember anyone other than Mora publicly calling out the manager or coaching staff. And even Mora, other then the generalization "he doesnt respect me", never mentioned any specific mistake.

This rant by Trembly and Samuel (and that is what it is, a rant) is bush league.

Cut this staff loose at the end of the season. Spend the money on a top quality manager and let him bring in the staff he wants.

So some coaches say harsh words about a floundering team which is the latest in a 12 year run of losing baseball, and this indicates that the manager and coach must be fired? There is a precendence here, as the last coach to publicly call out the team was sent packing. Leo Mazzone was let go for telling the truth - the Orioles franchise was substandard and too many of the players were not major league caliber. Andy MacPhail pretty much confirmed this with his comments after observing the team a month or so.

All year long, fans here have complained about the Orioles lackadaisical play, and now that coaches essentially confirm the fact, they are to be fired. The players are still the same meandering group with questionable focus. The players need to look in the mirror and decide that they will act like professional players throughout the season and not mail it come July. This latest public call out of how amateurish some players remain (confirming precisely what fans have surmised) just may cost Trembley his job. It can be is dangerous to tell the truth. The same fans that leveled the accusations at palyers will also turn on you. Has it dawned ou you that perhaps Trembley's fault was treating the players like adults? I know Andy MacPhail will be more level headed. He just may need to find a manager that treats these kids precisely as such.

Barry, I think I pretty much get it. You are going to blame coaches for mistakes that players make and treat the players like they are 10 year old recreation players. Hey maybe I do not know much, and do not get it like you state, or maybe I played at a high level and coach at a high level. The fact is do you blame the coach for everything? How many times have you seen a player for the Orioles get a single round first and head for second and get thrown out by 30 feet? How many times has Roberts forgotten how many outs there are? once? How about counting the times that Pie did make mistakes on the bases? Many times, however I will never forget the time he took third on the bunt, and beat the throw.

How many times do you guys think that Trembley talked to the team about base-running? How many times do you think that Pie had behind closed door meetings. We do not know all of these things. Fact is Roberts has made his share of mistakes but he has 560 at bats and has made far less than Pie who has less than 200 at bats. You do not see Markakis make mistakes like that ever, even when he first came up.

Slugger- Your right. I think we should let go of Wieters because he does not have the upside of Pie. As far as it goes with Manny, I am sure that Pie will put up 40 - 50 home runs and these kind of blunders will be forgotten. Lets see by the time Manny was Pie's age he already had a 30+ homerun season and 100 + RBI and was hitting .300 + for the year, not .300 for one half a month. Never said I liked Manny either. I like smart fundamental baseball, I like the game played with hustle by smart savvy players that like to win. The kind of players that have my respect are Rose, Robinson, Brett, Puckett, Morgan, Gibosn, Blair, Garvey, Cey, Jeter, Ichiro and many others that have/had heart, hustle and desire to beat the other team. Managers did not create these guys they have/had it, get it and do it.

So what do you have with Pie and these blunders, (not just by him this year but others also). Base running problems, throwing to the wrong bag, misplaying fly balls and cannot steal. These are all major issues that do not show up in the stats, and Samuel is right he does not belong in the major leagues, yet. Who knows if he had options maybe he can mature more down in the minors. But if you are putting together a team to compete and play smart fundamental baseball, is this the guy you want? The Yankees, Redsox, Rays and Blue jays would not compromise their chance of wining with players that do not get it, why should the Orioles.

All of this does not mean I do not think Pie will ever be good, but really he needs a lot of maturing, he has played over 600 minor league games, so whats the answer? Face the facts right now he is tied with Wigginton in stolen bases, but Wiggy has a better percentage. That is not a good thing.

I am willing to bet, if you put Roberts and Pie on a track and had them run the 100 yard dash, I bet Pie beats him, but where are the stolen bases? The guy is not ready for this. I might not be the sharpest tack in the box, but I knew from the beginning when they had Pie that Andy was going to keep him on the roster for the year. When the manager (that everyone on this blog wants fired) gave the starting LF job to Reimold, everyone was pretty happy. Do you want to give the job back to Pie now?

Fire the manager and coaches, that will fix all. Just like when Cabrera was pitching here, he sent what 4 pitching coaches packing. Now with Pie and some of the others on this team, it has to be the coach, right?

Wow, just wow. I was angry at Mora for humiliating his manager in the press, but I'm even angrier at Trembley for once again making an example out of Pie. You just don't throw members of your team to the wolves. It's fine for him to ream Pie out in the office, even in front of the other players, but not in the press, especially since Pie is hardly alone in making boneheaded mistakes this year, that's low class at best.
Both he and Samuel try to pretend to take responsibility while then laying it on the players. Which is it guys? Personally Samuel's comments didn't bother me as much because he kept it general, not mentioning names, and he has a valid point, these guys are supposed to know this stuff by the time they get to the majors. Still, I've seen far too many runners thrown out at home this season because Samuel sent them in a hopeless situation. Trembley needs to consider sitting some of these guys down for a game or two if they do something really stupid on the basepaths, maybe then they'll actually listen to what they're being told. Taking responsibility for the mistakes means doing something to correct the problem. If the daily drills aren't enough then you have to try something else, that's what managing a team means.

Reading their quotes sickens me. You don't think the players see Felix being singled out? This is worse than Ray Miller's April rant when he said "Go ask the players"

Trembley must go. Now.

Bill Frederick,

No Pie has not hit .300 in the last two months he has hit somewhere around .280 for the last two months.

You are correct, in baseball in the dugout the manager is the boss, but he cannot fire the players, he has to live with the talent that his boss gave him to go compete on the field. However Dave's boss can fire him, because that is the easy thing to do. Look at what Andy brought in here, some good trades, but really Wiggy, Eaton, Hill and Pie did not cost a lot. But Andy will not fire the manager, he just will not renew his contract. Then next year, there will be a new manager and coaching staff everyone can point the finger at. It is part of the job. At least Dave can say I once managed in the Majors.

On a side note I really look forward to never having to see another game played in the hefty bag dome in Minnesota. I am happy for the fans there, the new stadium looks great.

CB,

You can nitpick this all you want. No one is arguing that the team should not be called out. As others have said there is a place for it behind closed doors. Just like the players should not be badmouthing the manager in the media either.

The issue is not that a rookie got called out. The issue is that only one player, a rookie, got called out as a sacrificial lamb for a horrible managing job this season. And got called out in the media. As if Pie is dragging us down.

Pie is not the only one who does not belong in the Big Leagues. Here are a few who come to mind: Weiters, Tilman, Hernandez, Berken, Matusz, Guthrie, Bass, Albers, Ray, Samuel, and Trembley.

As an aside: You're response with regards to my points about Weiters and Manny are weak. I didn't say we should get rid of Weiters. I simply pointed out that Pie is out hitting the "major league ready" Golden Boy . Their both rookies right? Reimold is another one outhitting the "Golden Boy". I didn't compare him to Manny either. Just simply a point that players should not be singled out in the media. Serves no purpose. If you feel that strongly against him, bench him, but don't go out there blaming your team's failures on a rookie. That argument has no leg to stand on and won't gain anyone's sympathy, but will make his opponents case even stronger.

CB,
Since you advertise yourself as "coach" you must think it's ok for a coach to call out one player who doesn't have any clout to the media. If you criticize a player and diminish him in front of the other teammates that just makes you a lousy coach also.

Slugger,
Why so jealous of Weiters and calling him names . That is so juvenile and your list of players who don't belong in the majors is wrong and stupid.

So every rookie in the majors is supposed to play like Ty Cobb and pitch like Cy Young?

How stupid???

Wow, this is pretty classless coming from the coaching staff. They need to be addressing these issues with the team on a constant basis. The don't need to call them out in the press like this.

The only proof I need that the coaches are doing their job is that the players stop making stupid mistakes. Since they haven't stopped, I think that does point to the coaching staff not keeping up a running dialogue with the players about what is good and bad on a day-to-day basis. Spring training is one thing, but the watchfulness and instruction needs to continue after that too.

I imagine the stress is getting to them as their days wind down, but this can't be good for the clubhouse vibe.

"Be on time. Be professional. Respect the game."

Every time I see Trembley's 3 rules, I got to chuckle. Hope he abides by #2 when he gets the pink slip.

Bill,

Sorry to hurt your feelings. I think Wieters is a victim of hype. I like him as a person. If he didn't get 6 million signing bonus and hyped up to be the next Michael Phelps of baseball you would be talking about sending him down to the minors his first couple of months up in the Bigs.

Tell me why you think that list of players should play in the Bigs. I base my argument on their production. What's yours?

the players should know how to run the bases. if they don't the coaching staff needs to teach them. both sides are in the wrong. it seems to me that whatever the coaches say the players are not responding. usually that means that there is a lack of respect. by coming out in the media it seems to me trembley is losng or has lost control. losing breeds bad habits, dissention and a lack of focus. there seems to be some decent talent on this team except for the corner infield positions. the pitching is going in the right direction. i don't think the manager and coaching staff is geting anywhere near the performance this team is capable of. you can't fire 25 guys. (i wonder if that's an original statement). i don't think trembly would be a real successful manager with a good team and it seems that he can't motivate this team to play more competitive. time to change the manger and some coaches. get rid of some veterans who haved seen their better days and continue the youth movement. may the schmuck be with you!

CB Coach:

Pie has hit .321, 27 for 84, since June 1st.

Granted, Felix Pie is not the second coming of Willie Mays, but he has come around quite a bit and by most accounts has been working hard to improve his play.

By the way, he has the same HR/AB ratio as Nick Markakis! So while his gaffes have been glaring, he has shown improvement on a number of levels, which is more than I can say for Trembley and Samuel.

I am optimistic about this team's future given the promising pitching talent, but I don't have much reason to think that Trembley is the O's manager of the future.

I'm not sure he has the "instinct" for managing a major league team.

Respect The Fan.

onceawarrior,

Yes that is exactly right. Whats the point? I was responding back to Bill when he commented that he was hitting .300 in the last two months. Hey if DT did not call out Pie, the fans would.

Slugger
Pie is not a rookie, he played over 120 games before he came here.

Another thing is all I care about is success for the Orioles, and waiting until 2012 is not acceptable. Guys like Pie, Mora and Wiggy are all great guys but they are not going to carry the team. It is easy for job security to say your plan will take five years to compete. But with empty seats (except for Yankees and Redsox games) and the media ratings plummeting, they need to bring in some guys that will play hard, hustle and perform above the talent that the team currently has. Some money will have to be spent. You cannot have success with Mora, Scott playing first, Wigginton playing third and so on and so forth. The GM needs to address the holes at first and third. They need a front line starter, they need another bullpen guy that can perform. I think all of us see the problem and I do not think that anyone has the patience to keep waiting. Maybe they can get by with just a front line starter and a power hitting corner guy. But they need to have someone that will lift this team now. Face it the guys on the team now have never had a winning season in Baltimore, and yes winning is kind of important at the MLB level and it is important to us as fans. Not winning has cost Miller, Hargrove, Mazzilli, Perlozzo and now most likely Trembley their jobs. Not to mention the pitching coaches and assistant coaches. Looking back on things this year it has been what it is, a team in disarray and sometimes you have to change directions and do things that were not in the plan. The time is the off season, bring in two or three players that can put this team over .500, which Baltimore has not seen since 1997.

Bill,

As a coach I handle it different. I have the ability to have a say in who plays for me and who does not. I can put a player deep on a bench, I can go to my boss and tell him/her why I need to release a player. Dave Trembley does not have those luxuries, even though he makes 10 times what I do. He is a field manager, and AM calls the shots on personnel. Do you think that Trembley has say on who comes to this team? The GM does that. I am pretty certain that Trembley deep down inside would have rather had the two that ended up with the Yankees AJ Burnett and Mark Teixeira than Eaton and Wigginton. Could they have made a difference, of course the team would be 10-15 games better with those two alone. Money needs to be spent in 2010.

CB,

I agree with all you said on your last post.

I would add the following:

I know GMs, managers, coaches or even owners in all sorts of sports stick with failed strategies out of drive to prove critics wrong. Even though we have a lot of upside for the future with young pitching and hitting prospects, I believe we postponed our progress by at least 2 years by having this coaching staff here. Sometime it's OK to show a sense of urgency. Look at how the Rockies are performing after their new managers lit a fire from up under their arse.

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Pete's reply: So, you're saying that if Jim Tracy had taken over this team in June it would be a wild card team?

To all those who defend Trembley and MacPhail please read what Ken Williams (GM) and Ozzie Guillen (manager) said when the White Sox were under-performing

Quote by Kevin Williams:

"I already said previously that I put all that weight on my shoulders. I'm the one that has to put them in a better position to win baseball games and that means going out and making the necessary adjustments to get this team where we are better and get guys back up to their normal level of production."

Quote by Ozzie Guillen:

"I think I should be criticized for the way we played this year. ... Believe me, after this year and last year what I went through, I'm bulletproof. I've been taking a lot of heat. I don't blame people for putting me on the spot because of the way played."

Real men take full responsibility and don't say in the media that the players should be held accountable, even though that should be done behind closed doors.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3014632

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Pete's reply: I love Ozzie Guillen, but are you saying he never publicly calls out his players?

I am really starting to worry about Weiters being overhyped. He might be our catcher for the foreseeable future, but he will be no superstar. I'd be happy with an all-star appearance or two at best.

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Pete's reply: Geez, I hope you didn't accidentally kick yourself in the back of the head with that kneejerk reaction. The kid will be a very good player and you'll just change your screen name and act like you knew it all the time.

nice work Slugger - very poignant

Anyone ever heard of a guy named Casey Stengel? Greatest lines ever on being critical of players, but more so the whole team. His famous lines did not damn a player straight on. It was done in a almost humorous fashion. Like "Come see my "Amazin' Mets," Stengel said. "I've been in this game a hundred years, but I see new ways to lose I never knew existed before." On his three catchers: "I got one that can throw but can't catch, one that can catch but can't throw, and one who can hit but can't do either." or when he asked "Cant anyone here play this game"
or the famous quote on Kranepool and Goosen who were both 20 at the time. Stengel said of Kranepool to a reporter, that fellow over there has a chance to be a star in ten years. The other (Goosen) has a chance to be 30 in ten years. He said that right to the media.

Other managers publicly called out players, Earl did it at times, especially with his star players, like Palmer.

Leo Durocher had his great quotes about players, but the reality of what he was known for was lack of hustle out of players.
"How you play the game is for college ball. When you're playing for money, winning is the only thing that matters".

How true is this still:
"If you don't win, you're going to be fired. If you do win, you've only put off the day you're going to be fired".

Sorry thought I should share.

Since the conversation has spilled over to Wieters, let me say give the kid some time.

I'm not saying he's the next Johnny Bench but as a reality check ...

Bench was drafted in 1965. He didn't play in the majors until 1967, and he only hit .163. He did win the Rookie of the Year award in '68. His batting average that year was a respectable (but not overwhelming) .275 including 15 HRs.

Matt Wieters was drafted in 2007. Let's see where he is at the end of 2010.

Defensively, I really like the way he looks ... and I don't think it was because I had been watching "Zaunie."

Waspman,

No argument there, but let's use the same rationale with Pie, instead of jumping on him every game he plays. Yes he sucks at running the bases. But Wieters sucks with runners in scoring position. They are learning. The manager should use the same measuring stick for all players.

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Pete's reply: Apples and oranges. There's a big difference between making ridiculous mental mistakes and having trouble hitting a good slider. I think Pie is coming along pretty well, considering how this season started, but he does need to get a better grasp of game situations. Wieters, meanwhile, already is pretty good at that, even though he had the added responsibility of learning and handling a pitching staff that has turned over dramatically.

Slugger,

Thank you for brining up this comparison of Wieters and Pie. Both are rooks both make mistakes and for some reason Pie gets ripped much more. Wieters should be held to either the exact same level or higher than Pie. Its obvious DT has favorites on this team.

If both Veterans and rookies are making these base running errors and other various errors why rip Pie? This is laughable that Pie is Dave Trembley’s whipping boy. Pie never cost the Orioles any games they did it as a collective unit and the managers have failed them.

Wieters does just as much bad as Pie. He can’t get in front of the ball at times and costs runs. He is having serious problems hitting and throwing people out calling games etc. Does he need to be called out? Hell no and DT shouldn’t have singled out Pie when others make mistakes this is a team game. Why didn’t he call out Berken, Bass or Guthrie just to name a few? This whole thing with Pie is very suspicious.

Oh yeah and one more thing

fire trembley

Everywhere Bill Parcells goes he does three things. First he cuts some player who is not a star but is well known and an integral part of the team. He does this to shake things up, get the players' attention and show who is the boss. Second he finds some guy he can beat on in training camp. Not a scapegoat, but someone who he can beat on and berate relentlessly every time he needs to get a message across to the team. Oh yeah, third thing he does is win. And when you win, no one whines and pontificates and philosophizes about the first two.

Point is that maybe, and NONE of us are in a position to know so I say MAYBE, Tremblay knows his team, knows its state of fragility and knows who he can and cant point the finger at publicly without having a negative result. Some players respond to a kick in the butt and some to a pat on the back. Obviously he cant publicly point to Mora's failures without Mora getting his nose out of joint. Maybe he knows he cant do it with Roberts. Maybe he knows that Pie is naturally happy go lucky and will take it well. Who knows?

The coaches said it right. They accept responsibility, meaning they know it is their jobs on the line, but they cannot make the players execute. They can wave them in or sign them to hold up but cant make the players look for their signs. They can send up the bunt but cant bunt for them. There is no right play to send in that works irregardless of the exection or lack thereof. Tremblay get bashed if he sits stoically or if he spouts off. He gets blasted if he explains his thinking on a play call or if he just says the players need to execute.

Who knew Safire was talking sports fans when he coined the term nattering nabobs of negativism for Agnew?

Ozzie Guillen is quick to call out players when necessary but he also is quick to willingly accept the blame. He’s even come out and said he deserves to be fired for bad play. Nobody in the Orioles organization wants to accept and take accountability for failure like Oz. Look at DT's post game interviews for example. Also He calls out Pie to take away from the fact he’s a bad manager and a coward. This is an internal problem the Orioles have that maybe comes with 12 years of being sore losers nobody wants to take responsibility. Even though the Nats suck this season they sent out a letter to all the fans apologizing and owning up to it. The Orioles need to stop dancing around this and man up.

Don and all,

I think that you guys are going the wrong direction. Why be suspicious of anything. First Wieters is a catcher, the toughest position on the field. He is a full time catcher and has not even played half a season yet. Pie plays outfield and is now a fourth outfielder behind Reimold, Jones and Markakis. Pie already had 250 at bats in 120 games before coming to Baltimore.
I may be wrong but Pie does not qualify as a rookie because of those numbers. He is catching the youngest staff in baseball, and has only 3 PB. Two different types of players who have totally different roles and styles of play. Also remember Wieters was drafted in 2007 with the 5th pick of the draft. We got Pie for nothing. Why are people comparing him to Johnny Bench, that is just not fair. Why not compare Matusz to Sandy Koufax while you are at it. Compare Pie to Ricky Henderson. The fact is none of this is fair to Pie or Wieters. They were given their jobs to do, and the fans were crying for Wieters to be up from the start of exhibition season, while fans were calling for Pie to be gone.

ED,

The other difference between Guillen and Trembley is that Guillen has had actual success as a Major League manager, so he has more ground to stand on.

CB,

You said: "Also remember Wieters was drafted in 2007 with the 5th pick of the draft. We got Pie for nothing."

One more reason not to single out a player that you invested nothing on. You don't like his play, bench him. I'm not saying that DT or any manager should call players out in the media, but while you're at it, call out Wieters too, won't you? He is the one you made an investment on ($6 million worth so far). The pitching is dreadful and he is the catcher. You tell me. He can't run, can't hit. Again, I like Wieters. Maybe it is a bad example, but I'm just being a devil's advocate. Inconsistency in treating the players, shows Trembley is a coward. Why blame the guy you got for nothing on your failures? What do you have to lose? Get rid of him if you don't like him, but don't scapegoat him to save your arse. Only cowards pick fights with those who can't fight back.

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Pete's reply: One more thing. Trembley has put his name on everything he's said this year, Slugger. Before you trot out the word coward, let's hear yours.

Slugger,

First, BRob learned his lesson after he got called out. He even brought DT a bottle of wine and nothing has happened since. He also has a career of "getting it" to back him up, whereas Pie has a career of hot potato where no one wants him for long because he ALWAYS does that nonsense.

Also, a slump is different than no IQ. So your Wieters situation is a little different. He's adjusting on his first time up. As a reminder, Pie has been through ALL of his options. One is learning, one should have learned by now. When Weiters is out of options and still not an All-Star then I'd be with you.

If you bench him, do you go 2 outfielders or sit Jones out in a wheelchair and figure you could get lucky and they just hit it right to him? There was no benching option and there is no sending him to the minors option. I'm guessing since every GM can see Sports Center, AM can't get more than bus fare for the guy either. Though I think he's still clinging to that cycle being a sign as opposed to the exception that proves the rule.

I didn't take the time to read every single comment, so maybe that makes my response less valid, but what the hell is Juan Samuel talking about? I'm so frustrated with this, I don't know where to begin.

He was hardly "man enough to (take responsibility)" calling out the players. What does he think his job is? His job is to be the base-running and third base coach. It is to see if he can't improve the base-running of each player. It is to provide discrete suggestions to players between plays, in order to optimize their chances in advancing around the bases. It is to provide CONSISTENT attention-grabbing counsel to players as they muscle their way around the bases while the ball's in play. He has little personal responsibility and a great ground-level perspective - the perfect situation to coach players. And he would be coaching them, if he had established any trust from the players by earning it through consistently sound advice.

Felix Pie is a goof (I think he has the right tools and sometimes he appears to have the instincts of a true baseball natural that is playing his very first sandlot game and hasn't, yet, really thought through the game and learned from his mistakes), but I wouldn't trust Juan Samuel. When the ball's in play, his job is to not cost the team runs. You can't really credit a third base coach for scoring runs, but you can certainly blame him for costing runs. And cost us runs, he has. I've seen him wave Scott and Huff home on one-hopper outfield singles, only to be easily thrown out at home. That was in one game within a span of three innings. He's made countless mistakes, looks totally lost sometimes, and has never been consistent long enough to earn the players' trust.

Third base coach, shmird base coach. Stick any of these Little League World Series coaches in his stead. Why not? They have to practically quit their jobs for the last two months of Summer anyway, they'd be available. Sign them up on a rotating basis, each coach gets one month to be the paid third base coach for a Major League team, and if they do well, they get one more month, period, that's it. They'd relish the opportunity and pay so much attention to each play because they'd know they were being held responsible. Plus it'd connect MLB to grassroots little league programs that are baseball's future.

That might be a stretch, but it's interesting to think about. It's simple economics. A huge amount of competition has provided a barrage of responsible baseball gurus that go back to office work in September - a huge bank of untapped baseball knowledge asking to be exploited. MLB has the money and the platform to attract these guys. On the flipside is Juan Samuel. He has the job because he's in the system and because there is no real open competition for his position. I don't believe he's lazy, just like I don't think our baserunners are lazy. I just think he's a horrible coach. Just because he once stole 396 bases doesn't mean he should still be here a decade later. He was incredible on the basepaths in his day, but if you can't translate that knowledge to new players, you have no business being a coach at this level.

When the majority of the baserunning gaffes were at the feet and minds of the veterans, and with the worst stolen base percentage in the AL after working extensively on it in Spring Training, someone has to take responsibility. Take the criticism, face the music and get your bags packed bud, because you don't belong up here anymore.

I didn't take the time to read every single comment, so maybe that makes my response less valid, but what the hell is Juan Samuel talking about? I'm so frustrated with this, I don't know where to begin.

He was hardly "man enough to (take responsibility)" calling out the players. What does he think his job is? His job is to be the base-running and third base coach. It is to see if he can't improve the base-running of each player. It is to provide discrete suggestions to players between plays, in order to optimize their chances in advancing around the bases. It is to provide CONSISTENT attention-grabbing counsel to players as they muscle their way around the bases while the ball's in play. He has little personal responsibility and a great ground-level perspective - the perfect situation to coach players. And he would be coaching them, if he had established any trust from the players by earning it through consistently sound advice.

Felix Pie is a goof (I think he has the right tools and sometimes he appears to have the instincts of a true baseball natural that is playing his very first sandlot game and hasn't, yet, really thought through the game and learned from his mistakes), but I wouldn't trust Juan Samuel. When the ball's in play, his job is to not cost the team runs. You can't really credit a third base coach for scoring runs, but you can certainly blame him for costing runs. And cost us runs, he has. I've seen him wave Scott and Huff home on one-hopper outfield singles, only to be easily thrown out at home. That was in one game within a span of three innings. He's made countless mistakes, looks totally lost sometimes, and has never been consistent long enough to earn the players' trust.

Third base coach, shmird base coach. Stick any of these Little League World Series coaches in his stead. Why not? They have to practically quit their jobs for the last two months of Summer anyway, they'd be available. Sign them up on a rotating basis, each coach gets one month to be the paid third base coach for a Major League team, and if they do well, they get one more month, period, that's it. They'd relish the opportunity and pay so much attention to each play because they'd know they were being held responsible. Plus it'd connect MLB to grassroots little league programs that are baseball's future.

That might be a stretch, but it's interesting to think about. It's simple economics. A huge amount of competition has provided a barrage of responsible baseball gurus that go back to office work in September - a huge bank of untapped baseball knowledge asking to be exploited. MLB has the money and the platform to attract these guys. On the flipside is Juan Samuel. He has the job because he's in the system and because there is no real open competition for his position. I don't believe he's lazy, just like I don't think our baserunners are lazy. I just think he's a horrible coach. Just because he once stole 396 bases doesn't mean he should still be here a decade later. He was incredible on the basepaths in his day, but if you can't translate that knowledge to new players, you have no business being a coach at this level.

When the majority of the baserunning gaffes were at the feet and minds of the veterans, and with the worst stolen base percentage in the AL after working extensively on it in Spring Training, someone has to take responsibility. Take the criticism, face the music and get your bags packed bud, because you don't belong up here anymore.