arent you glad I didnt say fire trembley?

Maybe if they dress Wieters in Zaun's uniform and gear Guthrie will have a good outing.

I like Berken a lot, and his mechanics and velocity are startlingly similar to a young Greg Maddux, who was never a flamethrower. If he can learn to command his pitches and change speeds more effectively I think he could be very succesful in the major leagues. The Orioles are smart to keep sending him out there. Just like Maddux, he will learn to keep the ball out of the middle of the plate and get more movement on all of his pitches.

Guthrie has not shown the relaxed and confident demeanor this year that he exhibited before. After an error or not getting the call on a close pitch he appears to just rear back and heave the ball, rather than spot it.

Hernandez will also develop along with Berken as he learns to change speeds and spot the ball.

Pete, For those of us looking for the prositive I did a little study between last year and this year of losses between the All Star break and August 20. As I understand 'The Plan" from Andy the first priority is to build up the pitching. Until the pitchers are there he is not going to add FA bats to the lineup. However, once the pitching is ready he will use Free Agency to plug the other needs.

Well I looked at the amount we have lost by this year and last:
Loss by 2008 2009
1 3 7
2 3 6
3 1 1
4 4 5
5 4 1
6 1 0
7 0 0
8 1 2
9 0 1
10 1 0
Total Losses 18 23
% 3 or less 39% 61%

The 1st column is how many runs we lost by. The 2nd is 2008 and the 3rd is 2009. We have 5 more loses this year in 1 less game, BUT the amount we lost by has decreased significantly in 2009. In 2008 39% of the losses were by 3 or less runs. In 2009 61% were by 3 or less runs. We have cut down on walks tremendously in 2009 but we have increased home runs. Part of the reason for the increase in HRs is that the pitchers are throwing over the plate but haven't yet learned the controll to place it were they want it over the plate. Thus a Chris Tillman has 3 bad pitches out of 101. That is a sign that our pitching is vastly improved over last year.

It is easy to just look at the loses and say we are worse then last year, but I think we are making progress and if we can get a couple of position players with some pop over the winter we will be competitive (baring injuries) next year.

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Pete's reply: That's some interesting research. Thanks for making the effort.

Isn't this like the fourth time we've been at CWS this year? Just feels like it.

Fire safety

YEAR W L RS RA

2009 49 72 562 655
2008 68 93 782 869
2007 69 93 756 868
2006 70 92 768 899
2005 74 88 729 800
2004 78 84 843 830
2003 71 91 743 820
2002 67 95 667 773

1 Melvin Mora 8,000,000
2 Aubrey Huff 8,000,000
3 Brian Roberts 8,000,000
4 Danys Baez 7,166,666
Team Total 61,885,566
Team Rank 26th

Well, now Albers is getting rocked in Norfolk. For the love of Pete(and me & God & country)please get this kid some medical attention. This is not about some tough luck...he is throwing (not pitching)hurt. He should be cut off asap & undergo a full eval.
Looks like our # 1 pick continues to get lit up by other 18/19 year olds in the Rookie league. Not sure but, I don't think this is exactly how the boys upstairs drew this one up

Watched the Phillies last week & all I can say is their young kid Happ is lightyears beyond our rookies. I think we really are more fluff than substance.

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Pete's reply: To be fair, the Phillies hae a much better team all the way around, which is going to make their young pitchers look better.

Fire dog

jack

I am not going to slam the Orioles scouts even though I should for the past failures but going the rookie route over free agents is risky business. Hopefully our picks work out but this isn’t an exact science maybe drafting some position players and getting free agents would help the cause.

Jack
That’s because Philly knows how to train their rooks! They have a capable staff up and down that whole organization starting at owner. Orioles are a mess! Nothing except Angelos making money and fans hoping. S*&^ is pathetic!

To jack and Frank Re: Happ - Though Happ may be a rookie according to Hoyle, he made his debut 2 years ago and STRUGGLED for 2 years between Ottawa's rotation and the Phils' bullpen. He is now having his breakout season at the age of 26, not exactly a young pup. Let's see...Tillman is 21, Matusz 22, Hernandez 24, Berken 25, Bergesen 23 and have all made their debuts THIS YEAR. Maybe in a year or two, you can compare these guys to Happ, but for now, start making sense instead of flinging vitriol without doing your homework. The one thing I'd agree with jack on is that Albers probably needs surgery. He can help us when he's healthy. Let him get better.

1 a. Melvin Mora 8,000,000
1 b. Aubrey Huff 8,000,000
1 c. Brian Roberts 8,000,000
4. Danys Baez 7,166,666
5. Koji Uehara 5,000,000
6. Nick Markakis 3,350,000
7. Ty Wigginton 2,500,000
8 a. Cesar Izturis 2,400,000
8 b. Luke Scott 2,400,000
10. Mark Hendrickson 1,500,000
11. Chris Ray 850,000
12. Chad Moeller 800,000
13. Jeremy Guthrie 650,000
14. Rich Hill 445,000
15. Adam Jones 435,000
16. Cla Meredith 430,900
17. Jim Johnson 420,000
18 a. Felix Pie 410,000
18 b. Matt Albers 410,000
18 c. Dennis Sarfate 410,000
21. Brian Bass 405,000
22. Radhames Liz 402,500
23. Dave Davidson 400,500
24 a. Nolan Reimold 400,000
24 b. Troy Patton 400,000
24 c. Alfredo Simon 400,000
24 d. David Hernandez 400,000
24 e. Chorye Spoone 400,000
24 f. Wilfrido Perez 400,000
24 g. Bob McCrory 400,000
24 h. Alberto Castillo 400,000
24 i. Chris Waters 400,000
24 j. Brad Bergesen 400,000
24 k. Lou Montanez 400,000
24 l. Kam Mickolio 400,000
24 m. Jim Miller 400,000
24 n. Matt Wieters 400,000
24 o. Robert Andino 400,000
24 p. Jason Berken 400,000
Total Team Salary: 61,885,566

What do you think the Orioles chances are of making a move to trade for Prince Fielder? Fielder is known to be unhappy in Milwaukee and wants a new deal if the Orioles were given a window to negotiate an extension would they do it and what do you think they would have to give up to get Fielder?

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Pete's reply: I think the O's would be interested in anyone like that if the price is right and they can get him signed, but that "window" is seldom granted anymore.

Player Salary (US$)
1. Carl Crawford 8,250,000
2. Carlos Pena 8,000,000
3. Pat Burrell 7,000,000
4. Scott Kazmir 6,000,000
5. Troy Percival 4,445,000
6. Chad Bradford 3,666,666
7. Russ Springer 3,300,000
8. Akinori Iwamura 3,250,000
9. Dan Wheeler 3,200,000
10. Dioner Navarro 2,100,000
11. Jason Bartlett 1,981,250
12 a. James Shields 1,500,000
12 b. Gregg Zaun 1,500,000
14. Grant Balfour 1,400,000
15. Brian Shouse 1,350,000
16. Joe Nelson 1,300,000
17. Jeff Niemann 1,290,000
18. Gabe Gross 1,255,000
19. Gabe Kapler 1,000,018
20. Willy Aybar 975,000
21. Jason Isringhausen 750,000
22. Lance Cormier 675,000
23. Evan Longoria 550,000
24. Randy Choate 500,000
25. Jeff Bennett 437,500
26. B.J. Upton 435,000
27. J.P. Howell 433,700
28. Matt Garza 433,300
29. Andy Sonnanstine 430,100
30. Ben Zobrist 415,900
31. Shawn Riggans 413,900
32. Matt Joyce 410,400
33. Justin Ruggiano 404,000
34. Fernando Perez 402,800
35. Elliot Johnson 401,200
36. John Jaso 401,000
37. Mitch Talbot 400,700
38. Reid Brignac 400,400
39 a. Wade Davis 400,000
39 b. Rashad Eldridge 400,000
39 c. Dale Thayer 400,000
Total Team Salary: 68,230,934

The Phillies farm system is amazing because of one guy? There's more than one that they've grown themselves, but their rotation is a s***show. Why do you think they were desperate for Lee and so eager to take a risk on Pedro. They benched Moyer and he has the most wins on the team.

Where is the farm grown talent other than Happ and Hamels (who is regressing this year)? Blanton isn't homegrown (Oakland) and they've had to start guys like Chan Ho Park and Rodrigo Lopez (he's still around).

There's Bastardo who went through that world renowned farm system. His ERA is hovering around 6.75 at the moment. Our worse rookie this year, Berken is at a 6.72. So let's keep some perspective here.

James C

Who won the World Series last season?

Perspective is a spin word used to control Oriole fans.

Brian Roberts 2B
Cesar Izturis SS
Adam Jones CF
Nick Markakis RF
Nolan Reimold DH
Luke Scott 1B
Melvin Mora 3B
Matt Wieters C
Felix Pie LF

Okay better lineup than last night but why is Cesar batting 2?? He can barely hit at all!!

Josh,

Prince Fielder can crush the ball and is a winner. He could hit the ball out at the age of 12 and is MLB pedigree. The Orioles are not going in that direction.

Good one anonymus. he does need to go though as do all the coaches...that's the next step to changing the culture.

Please don't judge our pitchers by 4 starts in the bigs.

Or Hobgood after 30 some innings.

Phillies farm system has produced a lot of their nucleus.

Man, Roberts is hot! I don't see how anyone is seeing the ball better than him right now. Still like to see him run out grounders.

Matusz, Tillman, Arrietta aren't guaranteed anything. Remember Pulsipher, Isringhausen, and Wilson were going to save the Mets.

I will keep punishing myself tonight by watching the Os on the mlb package.

To comment on the payrolls above, the Orioles top 3out 4 salaries won't be on the team next year. Really running on th cheap.

To be honest, Ron, that's not a terrible lineup, though I would switch Pie and Izturis.

Jack, the Philthies are a world series winning team. It would stand to reason that they're rookies might be doing better than ours. I also believe our rookies are here ahead of schedule and maybe not fully prepared. So let them take their lumps and learn OTJ at the big league level. Remember, Tilman is 21, Matusz, 22, Bergeson is 23, Hernandez is 24, and Berken is 25 and all have made their big league debuts this year.

Happ is 26, and while he is still classified as a rookie, he did spend parts of the previous two seasons in Philthydelphia, totaling 35 innings. And he took his lumps and learned from them. I have no doubt our guys will, also.

Sorry, Jeffry, I just noticed you posted almost the same thing as I. My apologies.

Ron--

As for Izturis batting second, a couple of days ago, the broadcasters mentioned that he was batting .314 from the left side, and he does occasionally show signs of knowing how to handle a bat. Looks like a good #2 to me with a righthande on the mound.

lets see... Red Sox Yankees or Orioles White Sox. Sorry birds!

Yeah I remember that the other day on MASN. Well hopefully Izzy can get on base tonight. I think Pie would be a better fit at the 2 slot he needs more time and has shown he can be a good player.

Where is the money the Orioles making going to? We know its not the MASN commercials that’s for sure… Swiss bank accounts?

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Pete's reply: Don't know how much money they're making, since the ratings have been very low and their gate receipts have plummeted. They get the cable co-pays, which are substantial, but after paying the Nats $26 million or so for their rights and also giving them a share of the net profit, I doubt they're pulling in anything close to Yankee and Red Sox money. Remember, they're gate receipts have plummeted.

As for Pie, he's definitely shown that he can take instruction. They mentioned he's batting over .300 since a couple of months ago. It remains to be seen if he can keep that up in a day-in/day-out situation. As the great Tom Boswell said, it takes a long time to really know how good a player is. . . . No, longer than that.

I saw how bad Hobgood's numbers are in the minors and even though that means nothing right now I am curious about one thing. Isn't a much a greater risk to draft a high school pitcher than a college pitcher because athletic ability and skills change so much in the college years? Not to mention, college pitchers figure to make the majors quicker.

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Pete's reply: Of course, college pitchers get to the big leagues faster, but there are plenty of high school kids who grow into great big league pitchers.

Money huh?
Those horrible commercials on Masn are called run of station. Basically the station just throws them in for free because they cannot sell the time to business seeking that specific time slot. MASN is not making money,is nowhere near a cash cow.
The Nats average,average 8,000 sets on during a game in a top ten market. Beyond horrible. Angelos ain't getting rich via masn and won,t until he lets pros at TV run it. It is the new Orioles, their playtoy run by family. Why do you think he is leaving the team to andy?
The Orioles do not draw, season tickets are down,
luxury boxes not leased,
Masn is struggling(do you tune in for pro view with Rick "Doc" Walker?)
Angelos needs to let that Class Action money loose to win again.

I think you have it backward on Izturis:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6638/splits

.224 BA .266OBP vs. Right
.345BA .345OBP vs. Left

he doesnt walk much either

tho, he did get a hit in his first AB tonight. Dave should be batting him second against lefties instead of righties

ssmd,

Thanks for the link. That's an interesting bit of news that contradicts what the O's broadcasters on MASN said. I have to wonder if Yahoo's got it right. At the risk of starting a dreadful thread, Izturis has been batting against righties in the #2 spot lately, but not against lefties. No matter what one might think of Trembley, the man is smarter than that.

it makes sense to question the stats, tho MLB has the same:

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=bal&playerID=285131&statType=1

baseball reference has the splits for the season which also match:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=izturce01&year=2009&t=b

and for the career:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=izturce01&year=Career&t=b

Izturis is .253 BA .294OBP .617 OPS from the left

he is .278BA .308OBP .663OPS from the right

its sensible to question the numbers, but MLB and baseball reference stats are the same as yahoo. also baseball reference has his career splits, he does better batting from the right side:

.253BA .294OBP .617OPS batting left
.278BA .308OBP .663 OPS batting right

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=izturce01&year=Career&t=b

ssmd--

I guess the two do not have to be mutually exclusive. He could be batting .345 from the right and .224 from the left for the season, but still be batting .314 from the left in the last x weeks, no?

true, but his career stats are for 8 seasons, thats a meaningful data pool. So, unless Terry Crowley turned him around like Mickey had Rocky fight right handed in Rocky II, I dont get it.

It's baseball. Anything's possible, and the career stats are not so heavily weighted to the right. If he batted 500 times righthanded, he'd have 139 hits for the season, versus 127 from the left for a 500- AB season. So that's only 12 more hits a season, or 1 more every two weeks. In fact, .314 is to .345 in exactly the same ratio as .253 to .278. So .314 would be more like it.

ssmd--

Forgot to add: yes, better to bat him #2 against lefties, but if he is batting .314 from the left side these days, what the hey--bat him #2 against righties, too.

Good night. And thanks for the discussion.

well, yeah, the numbers seem to say it would be better against lefties, not sure about the .314, would have to calculate by hand, i dont see the ability to show split stats for the last 10 games or whatever on any websites.

anyway, would be interested in dave's reasoning on it, if any.

Tom,

I'm still waiting to see how you think they've done a better job in the farm system with all of their pitching prospects. Take your time, I know the answer will be hard to make up.

As for who won the World Series, they didn't win it the year before with the same farm system in place, or the year before that, or the year before that or any year since 1980 for that matter.