Peter,

Don't forget that Jerry made that nice one handed play on the Wieters dribbler earlier. As good as ARod is, I'm not sure he makes either of those plays either.

that second play was tailor made Arod definitely would have made it

Clarification - I meant to say that we shouldn't assume ARod would have made the earlier one handed play.

Well, Riemold did take Pettitte deep...but that was only deep into the count.

the o,s sux they make all pitchers look like cy young

Peter,

I haven't seen you comment on Reimold's Achilles lately. He has had a productive rookie season, why not shut him down and do the surgery so that he can get a jump on rehab?

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Pete's reply: I'm not there and I'm not a doctor. If he had a serious Achilles injury, he wouldn't be walking, much less playing. He has been dealing with soreness there for a long time, and speculated that he might have to have surgery to correct the problem. I don't think that means reattaching it (which is what I'm recovering from). I'm guessing he's talking about some kind of procedure to smooth out a frayed area on the tendon. Five months to recover probably should be enough. I'm just six weeks from extensive surgery and I'm already riding a stationary bike.

i'm insecure

I bet Hairston is wearing an O's t-shirt under that ugly Yankee jersey. Way to blow the perfect game. Played like a true Oriole.

But seriously. Did Pettite really think he could get it done with that junk he was throwing tonight? His pitches were at best mediocre. The O's have a tendency of making mediocre pitchers look great. If he throws that junk to the Redsox or Rangers line-up, he does not make it past the third.

Why you want to grow your own pitching
Artifact # 1: AJ Burnett, 10-8, 4.1, 17mm

Is there a stat for hits given up with 2 strikes? Or it might be my imagination. Or does Wigginton ever knock anything down over at first?

good thing we didn't go with Pie (probably the best hitter for the last month) or wiggington (right handed) instead of Scott

i don't really know why that's a good thing because it doesn't seem to make sense.

I mean it's not rocket science making out a lineup is it....or did DT have this lineup scheduled back in March and we can't deviate from the schedule

I'll tell ya...I want to like Trembley I really do....but his lineup and in game management and handling of the staff to me has been C- all year.

no I don't think we'd have more than about 5-10 more wins with someone else but we sure need some new blood next year methinks

yeah I know wiggington is in there.... I'm an idiot

I'm anonymous

Luke Scott will not be on the Orioles next year.

Luke Scott is picking up paychecks wearing a ski mask.

I'd like for those arguing with me about the Tejada trade earlier in the season to resurface again and make a case for Luke Scott or any or all losers we got along with him.

that was a painful game to watch. Thank God for Family Guy over on TBS.

What a great game to watch, what an effort by Pettitte. I hope Matusz was studying how Pettitte kept the Orioles off balance with change of speeds and getting outs on balls out of the strike zone. Why get down on the Orioles when they were just shut down by a guy that has 227 big league wins? Watching someone take a perfect game that deep into a ballgame is a treat even though he is a damn yankee.

Insecure- now that is funny!

CB,

Common man! Really? Yes Pettite pitched a good game, but wasn't great by any means. I don't think I'm the only one who saw some awful at bats by the O's up and down. We have every right to get down on the O's for continuing to get owned by Pettite. How about some hitting tips like:

1. Take the inside part of the plate away from him
2. Take pitches, and stop swinging at first pitch blindly
3. Foul off some slow arse breaking balls
4. Focus on one pitch and drive it
5. Force him to throw strikes over the big part of the plate
6. Protect the plate when down on two strikes and don't strike out looking
7. Go with with the Pitch. The only one who did that tonight was Markakis when he broke the no-hitter.

And lastly, DT should stop managing by the BOOK. The season is over. Go with the freaking hot hitters. Luke Scott against Pettite! Are you kidding me? Izturis batting second. Really?

Had the O's done half these things tonight, Pettite would have looked very beatable.

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Pete's reply: You continue to crack me up. The guy is the winningest pitcher in history against the Orioles. HISTORY. Give him an ounce of credit and stop embarrassing all of us by trying to tell major league hitters how easy it is to hit when you're watching the pitches from the center field viewpoint.

Slugger- you need to stop being a homer and be objective.

"The O's have a tendency of making mediocre pitchers look great. If he throws that junk to the Redsox or Rangers line-up, he does not make it past the third."

Lst start vs. Texas, 7 inn, 5 hits 2 runs.

Season:
167.1inn. 166 hits 59 walks 132 Strike outs .259 Batting Against of opponents 4.03 ERA

If, if, if... Live in reality.

"The O's have a tendency of making mediocre pitchers look great. If he throws that junk to the Redsox or Rangers line-up, he does not make it past the third."

------
Slugger-
Take a reality check. You are smart enough to appreciate Rivera, so face facts.

Pettite pitched 7 inn his last start vs Texas gave up 5 hits and 3 runs.

If, if, if... He pitched great and to call a pitcher with a 226-133 record, .271 BAA & a 3.90 ERA, mediocre is just an ignorant statement.

Slugger, Come on give the guy credit. We are not talking about a stiff here, we are talking about a guy that will finish his career with over 250 wins, only if he wants to.. I think that you need to give credit where credit is due.

It is easy for you to say all those things, until you are standing in the box trying to get a hit off of Pettitte. Maybe the Orioles should consult with you before they face a crafty lefty that may have a chance to go to the hall of fame some day.

Perhaps Petitte "misremembered" that he is washed up tonight.

Mike- shows he can perform without steroids also. Just Like Roberts.

Slugger -

Stop being such an ass.

Gregb, CB et al,

I'm not saying Pettite is not a good pitcher or whether his performance wasn't good. Stop reading too much between the lines. The fact of the matter the O's took bad swing at eye level high fastballs 2 feet off the plate, or pitches 2 feet off the far corner off the plate or pitches in the dirt, with consistency. I'd call it a great performance when the pitcher actually works all corners of the plate and consistently makes hitters miss. If O's hitters don't swing at bad pitches, I guaranty you, Pettite throws more balls than strikes. I don't call that great. I call it good because he still ended up getting the win and fooling our lineup.

The point I'm making that bad teams make opposing pitchers look good is valid. Look at Pettite's numbers this year against good hitting teams:

Team ERA
---------------------
Redsox 4.00 (6.55 at Fenway Park)
Rangers 4.50
Angeles 9.90 (12.46 at Angel Stadium)
Twins 5.40
Braves 7.36
Mets 9.00
Phillies 5.14
Rays 4.66

So glad the no-no broken up. After Clemens, Pettite is my least fave MLB pitcher in recent years. I got to that point after his continual balk pickoff move that umps never call to his throttling of O's over years. Then the 'roids report just jumped it to a whole extra level.

Slugger,

I was not reading between the lines, instead of giving credit, you blamed the Orioles hitters. I am very careful how I use the word great, but it was a great performance. You must have missed the game because Pettitte was working the ball in and out, up and down, getting outs, and strikes, out of the zone. He made one mistake pitch in the entire game to Mora. The pitch that he threw to Markakis was a good pitch, it was on the outside part of the plate, he made a good swing placed the ball well and got his hit.

Your point is not valid, how about this point 227 wins 133 losses, if any of the current Oriole pitchers have that kind of career we will all be thrilled and bowing to them.

Slugger -

You can turn numbers into anything you want. Here's some expansion of your numbers:

Pettitte has thrown three games against the Red Sox...

04.26: 6 IP, 3 ER
08.09: 7 IP, 0 ER
08.21: 5 IP, 5 ER

So after those first two starts, his ERA against the Sox was 2.08. It was the one ugly start that bumped his mark up to 4.00. So what? He was a good pitcher through August 9th and then he became mediocre?

When he's had more than one start against a team (only one start vs MIN, ATL, NYM, PHI), the numbers are similar for the rest of the teams you pointed out (aside from the Angels; he's been thoroughly horrible against them this season):

vs Rangers
1 Good Start: 2.57 ERA
1 Bad Start: 7.20 ERA

vs Rays
2 Good Starts: 3.44 ERA
1 Bad Start: 7.50 ERA

And if the Mets are your floor for good hitting teams (the Mets have scored the fewest runs among the teams you listed), we've got to include Oakland, Detroit, the ChiSox, our O's, Toronto and Cleveland:

vs Oakland: 4.05 ERA
vs Detroit: No Starts
vs Chicago AL: 1.42 ERA
vs Baltimore: 1.17 ERA
vs Toronto: 3.86 ERA
vs Cleveland: 1.80 ERA

Seriously, bud. You can't just pick and chose your stats and teams when you're making an argument. You've got to at least try to make sense.

And face it. Andy Pettitte did an outstanding job making a decent hitting team (the O's are 14th of 30 in runs scored) look like a bunch of little leaguers. Sure, the O's swung at a ton of bad pitches. But good pitchers, especially when they're at the top of the game, make hitters swing at bad pitches. You said yourself that Pettitte fooled the O's. That's what good pitchers do. They work in and out of the strike zone and they keep hitters off balance. That's the name of the game, my friend.

B,

Yes I can pick stats to support my argument. I'm not making them up.

As you point out, and proving my point in the process, he enjoys success against other bad teams such as Oakland, Chicago (not very bad, but not a winning team), Toronto and Cleveland.

Let me refresh you're memory. I stated that bad teams make opposing pitchers look good. Your point?!

And for those who think Pettite will be an hall of famer:

1. His career ERA is 3.90 and will continue to increase as he keeps playing. No pitcher in the Hall of Fame currently holds ERA that high. Some are close, but not quite.
2. He admitedly did steroids. That alone will guaranty he won't be in the Hall of Fame.

Hey Slugger,

I'm overdue in disagreeing, but I thought I'd come through.

Miggy was a cancer when he was traded. We'd be in last with him still and we still haven't seen what Patton can offer this team. Good trade any day you ask me. What he does elsewhere has zero to do with how well he would have done here. Plus I wouldn't want his "gimme gimme gimme" attitude anywhere near these young guys. We got a great haul of potential guys for someone I'd just assume have cut like it was the NFL if he wasn't due unGodly money.

As for Petite, look around the league. We'll probably never see a 300 win guy again, in the same way we'll never see these career 3.00 ERA's or under by starters. By your standard the HOF for pitchers is basically done accepting pitchers after a few current vets retire (Rivera, Johnson, Smoltz, etc.). In Petite's case though you are right since he's an admitted user. If we were going on just stats alone, I think he'd be in the discussion a lot more. Not a lock, but he'd probably be close enough to at least have his phone handy after a couple years.

Slugger -

First off, who said that Andy Pettitte's a Hall of Famer? I know I never did. In my book, he's a very good lefty who's made adjustments that have allowed him to be successful for a very long time. Also in my book, Mike Mussina is a borderline HOFer, and Pettitte's not even close to Moose.

Second, I never said you were making up stats. I said you weren't looking at the whole picture. In saying that Pettitte is no good against teams with good offenses, you noted Pettitte's 4.00 ERA against the Red Sox in '09. But you failed to mention that, of his three starts against Boston, two of them were very good. The same thing goes for his starts against Texas (1 good, 1 bad) and Tampa (2 good, 1 bad).

Third, you dropped in the Twins, Braves, Mets and Phillies in your "Pettitte sucks against good teams" argument. Pettitte has faced those teams one time each. What's next? Saying Albert Pujols can't hit good pitchers based on his .200 average in five at-bats against Cliff Lee?

Fourth, your "good hitting teams" were the Red Sox (3), Rangers (10), Angels (1), Twins (8), Braves (19), Mets (23), Phillies (5) and Rays (4). That little number next to each team is its rank in the majors in runs scored. So based on your list of "good hitting teams", every team ranked above #23 has a good offense. And in your list of "good hitting teams" you failed to mention the A's (21), White Sox (16), Orioles (14), Blue Jays (12) and Indians (7).

Understand?

PLEASE....let me correct some "facts". Pettitte NEVER did STEROIDS. He took HGH to heal an injury. The nut who said Andy throws more balls than strikes is crazy. He has never had a game where he threw more balls than he did strikes, even when he had a bad game. Give it a rest !! Some of you just can't stand the fact that Andy is playing so well this year and he does have a chance at the HOF, although that is now why he is still playing. He is playing because of a love of the game and the fact that he is feeling good this year with his shoulder/elbow injuries. So, get it right if you want to comment.........

Donna,

Human growth hormone is still an illegal substance. What's your point? He is fraud and a cheater why should I believe what he says. He denied using illegal substance (L.A. Times, Oct. 2, 2006). His name does not belong in the same place as Jim Palmer if you ask me and many other non-Yankee fans. And as per balls and strikes, I'm not talking about swinging strikes. I was saying that it the O's don't swing at balls he would not have all those strikeouts, and his strike ball ratio would be higher on the balls side. Simple observation by watching the game, not a statistical observation.

Some of us not only cannot stand the cheater Pettite but also the entire Yankee organization, their fans and everything it stands for. You give it a rest and take your comments to the Yankee blogs where they belong. This is Birdland!

I hope, for the sake of my sanity, that no Orioles pitcher ever throws a perfect game or no hitter against a team that Slugger perceives as a "bad hitting team"...

Pettitte has absolutely no chance of making the Hall of Fame for two reasons:

1. He used performance enhancing drugs. I don't care what his reason was. He could have said that he thought PEDs would save Darfur. But the fact is, he cheated. I respect him for being straightforward in admitting it and I do think he's much more of a man than chumps like Bonds and A-Rod. But he still cheated. End of story.

2. Even if he didn't use PEDs, his numbers don't add up. And if he keeps playing after this season, his 3.90 lifetime ERA is going to keep crawling closer to 4.00.

Andy Pettitte has been a good pitcher for a very long time and he's done some great things over the course of his career. But the Hall of Fame should be reserved for the best players of their era and Andy Pettitte is nothing compared to Pedro Martinez, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Curt Schilling and probably a few more.

Just the fact that Pettitte has put up 4.00+ ERAs in NINE of his 15 seasons should scream, "NO HALL OF FAME!"