Keep Trembley!
(that felt good).

Honestly Pete, I do not think they feel they are ready to spend mufti millions on pitching. I think they will work with what they have. I agree, that they should get a proven starter, that can pitch deep into games. The only thing they have to deal with is the young pitchers, so a trade would be tough.

The excuse that there is no veterans out there is lame and serves one purpose only: save Angelos some millions.

No I don't know who these available pitchers are, but those who get paid to find talent better find it, whether the pitcher is 18 or 48. Make trades if you have to. Unload "prospects" like Berken by the buss-load to go after someone like Halladay or someone close to his talent.

MacPhail and crew can brainwash themselves all they want. Anything less than 500 next season should be considered a failure, even by most orange coolaid drinkers on these posts.

DO you over pay to just get him here? (or anybody)

Will some of the Young ones be OK to start at AAA next year? Will they be pissed to not start on the Full roster? I guess it is a good problem to have, good pitching waiting for there chance. Bullpen some them?

DO you think they Dump Guthrie? or give him a chance to regain his form? (looking back, it is not like he was lights out, but he was pretty solid) If Guthrie was that pissed about his Salary, he has done nothing to show he should get paid more.

I'd like to see some pitching added, but I don't think much is going to happen. The plain fact is there just aren't a lot of good starting pitchers available out there. I am not completely at ease with our current crop, but I believe for the first time in many years, the O's biggest problems now are primarily on the offense, particularly at the corners and DH.
I expect McPhail to make an offer to Lackey, but I don't think we'll get him. It's more likely we'll pick up a bat or two.

Pete,

I agree 100% and said these things a few weeks ago on your blog.

As you ponted out though, the talent pool is thin, and sometimes you never really know whether you are getting damaged goods, such as Kris Benson, Koji Uehara, Omar Daal, Rich Hill, etc.

That is the pool the Orioles typically fish in when acquiring starting pitchers with MLB experience.

The Orioles will not pay a proven free agent starter big money, nor will they trade their young pitching prospects for a bonafide starter. They will go into 2010 hoping that a starting rotation crystalizes from the young pitching talent pool in the system. At this stage of the game, I can see both sides of the argument.

Focusing on the free agent market exclusively is very narrow minded, and a convenient excuse.

During the past 2 years alone we've seen Santana, Lee, Washburn and Peavy traded (not to mention Sabathia, who was dealt as a pending free agent), so to act like there arent any moves to make simply because the free agent class is weak, is a total cop out.

Of course the other excuse we get all the time is the 'not ready to win yet, so no point in spending that kind of money'.... well guess what... if they arent more aggressive they will NEVER win, esp in the AL East.

Pete: Don't forget Berken. He has a season full of losses but has never once ducked a start. Also, if the club got him a few runs in some of his starts the record could be somewhat better.
I think he'll continue to get better & when this team matures (please...someday), he may be a major player.
I certainly see him in the mix next year as he's certainly given us more innings than Hill. I also see Koji in the pen next season & Hill really needing to impress just to make it out of Florida.

Peter,

You're absolutely correct. The game is pitching and defense, and I'd love to see MacPhail sign a REAL 1 or 2 starter.

But, this coming Spring is hugely different from the last several years in that here it is August and you are listing many of the probable pitchers on the O's staff come next Spring - Arrieta, Patton, Bergesen, Tillman, Hernandez, Matusz and Guthrie.

Add in Koji, Johnson, Berken, Mickolio and Meredith and you have the makings of a good staff.

When was the last time you could do that?

I'm not sure that you can say that Hernandez and Matusz are "deserving of jobs" in a major league rotation. Hernandez has given up 76 hits in 68 innings, 13 home runs, and has a horrible K to BB ration, all of which are not signs of a quality. Matusz, while showing flashes is getting rocked regularly and though he's got good K to BB numbers, he's also given up 31 hits in 18 innings. I thought the whole point of us wasting this season was to give the kids time to get ready and not rush them, so now that's not the plan? The decision to bring in 37 rejects and non-prospects to try and find some starters was a ridiculous plan that led to disaster on the field this year. You keep talking about how the O's don't know how to win - maybe that's because they don't have anybody who actually has won. As Bill James once said, if you try and race 15 Model Ts across a desert, don't be surprised when they all break down. That's what the O's did in spring training. It wasn't hard to predict the results and though you were optimistic, depending on a 34 year-old reliever from Japan to be your number two started and three survivors from the dead pool for your other starters was an easily predictable disaster. Dave Trembley stated that the loss of Koji was the biggest blow to the team this year. I say that depending on Koji was the biggest mistake of the team. When I brought his lack of qualifications up in April you mocked me, but as I said then, he had shown no reason that anyone should depend on him to be a regular starter in a ML rotation. We should have known that and since no other team wanted him for the rotation, it's obvious that every other GM and team knew that too. Why not bring in a quality starter, even if you have to overpay, to help show younger pitchers how to win? That quality player (and they were out there this past year) by pitching well can not only improve the attitude of the team, but also allow the younger players the time that they need. The O's could have filled the rotation with Derek Lowe and Jon Garland instead of Adam Eaton and Mark Hendrickson. It wouldn't have stunted any young starter's growth and they would have provided at least major league minimum quality starts. Just think, rather than rush younger guys to replace Eaton, we could have waited. Hernandez and Berken would not be starting for the O's; they'd either be in the minors or in the bullpen, trying to earn a spot with their performance instead of being given a slot out of desperation. There were major league average or better starters out there last winter, but it would have taken money and a lot of work to sign them. Saying there were no starters is a cop-out and by looking at the list of FA pitchers from last year you can see some decent results. Would signing Lowe and Garland have meant the O's wouldn't finish in last? No, not at all. But it would have meant a few more wins, a LOT less unqualified pitchers taking the major league mound, and maybe a more positive atmosphere in the clubhouse because the team isn't always behind by three runs in the second inning. It might even have helped the team learn that winning attitude that you stating they need. If you want a team to learn how to win, bring in players who have actually won.

Pete,

Are they still giving you drugs for that achilles. If the O's don't go get a solid front of the rotation starter, they are just CHEAP! You can't expect mediocracy to lead mediocracy and and they will have to pay through the nose, but they need a shut down guy every fifth day!

All bets are officially OFF! If this team is to turn the corner they need two middle of the order run producers and a front end proven starter to which will be expensive. But with all the money PA has been pocketing these last 11 years the moths will be flying or they are already dead!

You left out one SM. The fact that really good pitchers get offers from teams competing now. That is the biggest issue to overcome. We have signed one big name free agent starting pitcher under 30 since free agency. Sure we got our Hentgens, Keys and of course Kevin Brown, but no one with the upside of Halladay or Sabathia, ever! Some of the problem was the past when Brown came here he did not like pitching in a small park and wanted out..

What do you have to trade to get a top pitcher? You would have to give up some of your top minor league talented pitchers. Three or four of them. Are you willing to do that?

Do you want to overpay? That is hillarious, we will HAVE TO OVERPAY. Were, losers, were cheap, we've shown NO committment to winning! Just to get a decent player to think about playing in Baltimore, will cost us 20% more just to get him to listen. We suck, everyone knows it and while PA spent some money like six years ago happened in one year that's no committment but what they see is 11 years of futility! 2009 may have been my last year with the O's if they can't committ to contend I can't conmmit to rooting for them and will look for another team! My time is worth far more than PA's little underfunded toy!

CB Coach,

We will have to pay out the @$$. Our minors are not that deep that we can afford to give up 3-4 guys like a bedard trade.

PA just has to get the checkbook out and pay the man! With all the money he's saved the last few years it should be piling up! Hell Kansas City has a higher payroll than the O's!

The other reason to do this is that you will still need to limit the innings the young guys throw. So, even if Tillman has a good year, you don't want him throwing 200 innings. Matusz is already close to being shut down.

Hernandez is really the only one of the young guys who could reasonably be asked to throw 200 innings next year...except he looks to me like a relief pitcher (check out his bases empty/men on splits...needs to fix his windup, or operate from the stretch.)

Oops, and Bergesen could do 200 IP next year, too, assuming he's healthy.

Anyway, the point is - if Guthrie isn't better next year, they will need to do SOMEthing - keep the 6-man rotation, or get a veteran. Because you probably don't want to run a full-season rotation of Tillman, Matusz, Bergesen, Hernandez (and whomever).

They're going have to put them on the DL with a bad dream, if necessary, to keep their innings down. Maybe a 6-man rotation really would be the best thing.

Damn Pete tell us something we dont know!

We don't have squat for pitchers right now.

Until they win in the big leagues, they are just maybes.

You cannot build a team on hope.

There is room for at least one proven winning starting pitcher, if not two!

Pete you know were i stand on this matter. I have said all along while the young kids look promising you can't put the success of the entire franchise on the shoulders of these young kids. You have to have a veteran presence not only on the pitching staff but also with the everyday lineup.Now saying that is alot easier then doing something about. The free agent class next year is horrible. They migh have to pull off a big trade using some of these young players to get something in return. I am a skeptic of whether this plan is going to work as it is , but the one thing i am sure of is your not going to win with all kids on this team no matter what anybody believes.

Lots of chatter on the Trembley watch rumor mill today!

He might be out of here pretty soon

On paper, it sounds like we have an excess of starters but the reality is, one of them is going to suffer an arm injury and not all of them is going to progress as fast as planned.
That's why I think we should hang onto Guthrie as I think he'll bounce back. Even if we have an extra arm, what's wrong with using the odd man out as a middle-reliever? It's a good way to learn the ropes and with few starters going more than 5-6 innings anymore, it's not as if he wouldn't get enough work.
If we are really serious about rebuilding, then why not go all the way and use younger pitchers? Why keep bringing in retreads like Eaton, Ortiz, Drabeck, Chen etc who just end up costing us games and tying up roster spots? Who says we need the over-hyped 'veterean presence'?
Personally, we need some good old fashioned competition in spring training for pitching jobs. In the past, guys like Hendrickson, Hill, Eaton etc were handed starting jobs. The day we can actually have to send down good pitchers is the day I will be convinced that we are ready to run with the big boys.
We can take the right steps over the winter by severing ties with the likes of Baez, Bass and Hendrickson who are only here because no one else wants them. In the meantime, run them out there until the end of '09 and hope that the others stay healthy.

Spend money

Slugger

~~The excuse that there is no veterans out there is lame and serves one purpose only: save Angelos some millions.

No I don't know who these available pitchers are, but those who get paid to find talent better find it, whether the pitcher is 18 or 48.~~

So you know for a fact that these competent free agents exist but you have no idea who they are? Sounds like YOU are the one making excuses. The list of free agents is out there online. Go look it up like the rest of us. Last year folks listed the name of every free agent pitcher behind CC and AJ saying we should bring them in. Almost across the board they have sucked for huge dollars.

~~Make trades if you have to. Unload "prospects" like Berken by the buss-load to go after someone like Halladay or someone close to his talent.~~

You now officially cant be called "Slugger". In fact you cant even call yourself "Bunter". You are now "Weak Pop Up". The only reason you arent "Swing and Miss" is that you can no doubt sink further so it is in reserve for you. Just how many Jason Berkens do you propose we trade for Halladay? Twenty? Twenty million? This just might be the lamest post ever on this blog.

~~MacPhail and crew can brainwash themselves all they want. Anything less than 500 next season should be considered a failure, even by most orange coolaid drinkers on these posts.~~

Anything less than a World Series is a failure. So what? All but one team each year is a failure. So what? Even the Yankees with the biggest built in advantage in any major sport cannot win it every year. Most fans talk in terms of progress towards competing for the WS. You want to talk .500? Go ahead.

Fritz - I would not pay 15M for a .500 pitcher to play for a last place team. Lowe is the one standout from the second tier of last years free agent pitchers and he is just over .500 for ATL so what does he contribute to us for 15M? Garland is below .500 for Arizona and only has one postseason appearance to contribute to this team's leadership void. If I could get Lowe for Garland money I would jump at it, but in MacPhail's shoes, I would not have signed either of them either. And that is not even addressing whether either would come to Baltimore for any amount of money. Signing either makes us a better team today but doesnt get us closer to the world series.

You've got to love self-proclaimed experts like Slugger who are constantly denigrating other fans as "koolaid drinkers", yet fail to show any evidence that they have any idea what the hell they're talking about.

You've got to love self-proclaimed experts like Slugger who are constantly denigrating other fans as "koolaid drinkers", yet fail to show any evidence that they have any idea what the hell they're talking about.--

C'mon Guru, you don't think the jays would trade Halladay for Berken and Aubrey? LOL

Pete,

What is the draft eligibility of the hard throwing (left-handed) pitcher who defected from the Cuban National baseball team? [Last I heard he was in Europe.] Do players in that situation have to establish legal residency somewhere prior to becoming eligible to be signed by a Major League team? Also, am I correct that those players don't go through the amateur draft and can be signed by any team?

This is why the plan is for 2011, not 2010. But still, the O's need to get a capable innings eater. You can't build 4/5 of a rotation out of guys that have never thrown 200 innings in a season. It's not just the losses that worry me---it's the risk of injury.

This is why the plan is for 2011, not 2010. But still, the O's need to get a capable innings eater. You can't build 4/5 of a rotation out of guys that have never thrown 200 innings in a season. It's not just the losses that worry me---it's the risk of injury.

This is why the plan is for 2011, not 2010. But still, the O's need to get a capable innings eater. You can't build 4/5 of a rotation out of guys that have never thrown 200 innings in a season. It's not just the losses that worry me---it's the risk of injury.

This is why the plan is for 2011, not 2010. But still, the O's need to get a capable innings eater. You can't build 4/5 of a rotation out of guys that have never thrown 200 innings in a season. It's not just the losses that worry me---it's the risk of injury.

yes the orioles should make every attempt at signing a proven starter for next season. guthrie is not going anywhere because he has no value. the only thing peter and all of the other writers ought not put a lick of speculation on the blogs or in the paper until all of the t's are crossed and the i's dotted. don't know if a lot of us can go through what we did last year thinking that tex was going to come to baltimore.print it when the deal is done.

Hell yes!

Get a proven frontline pitcher to help anchor the young guys through their inevitable rough spots. I agree: sort of. I just think next year would be nice, but 2011 would be okay, too, or even 2012. That's a 3-year window, which is probably what it takes to be able to wait for the just-right deal. We ought to be out of 100-loss danger this time next year, but it would be miraculous to be at .500, and beyond miraculous to be competitive. Thinking "we need this right now, so let's spend whatever it takes on whichever pitcher becomes available" is dangerous. That's the attitude which led to my purchase of a 1969 Valiant, just about the time the O's bought Albert Belle.

Last winter you were arguing against the Os spending because they were going to lose anyway. You ridiculed people like me who suggested we had to start spending then to make 2010 successful.

Another year, the Os one of the most profitable teams and Angelos puts another bottom 4 team on the field.

Can you imagine going into 2010 with Texiera and Sabathia? Even a Burnett would be a huge addition to next year's rotation. OK maybe overpaying only allowed us to sign one but next year's prospects would be so much better with even one hole plugged with a proven star.

But you said don't spend the bucks now. As for them not wanting to come to Baltimore no matter how much we offered-- that is all conjecture on your part -- make the top bid and find out! You defend them for making offers below what winning teams offered.

A decade plus of losing and you felt management had no obligation to even offer a mediocre, entertaining product. Now you are telling us, be resigned to another season of hoping for the best with an unproven rotation.

Your words - Lackey won't come this far east. MAKE HIM AN OFFER SO HE WANTS TO COME.

Yes, Bedard has a history of injuries but our only chance of winning is to take chances with $ but your history is defending Angelos for not spending.

Now rather than saying it is finally time to begin to make this product on the field at last average even if it takes overpaying you avoid helping make ownership recognize that relying on cheap, unproven options is not acceptable in 2010.

They dug this hole and you defended them for not spending this year and now it sounds like if they do the same next year too no big deal to Peter Schmuck.

Schmuck stop being a schmuck -- lead the march to change the ownership attitude that has made us a laughing stock in baseball. Your defense of their saving $ is a significant contributor of another incredibly depressing season.

It is time for you to say make this team competitive in 2010 or SELL IT TO SOMEONE WHO IS COMMITTED TO WINNING NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES including $.

Just because Seattle was dumb enough to part with so much to get Bedard, doesnt mean the O's have to overpay similarly to acquire a solid top of the rotation pitcher in trade. I think the Halladay situation proved that other teams are NOT willing to pay such a ridiculous price, and thus teams looking to move a guy will have more reasonable expectations in the future.

The key is having scouts who can project which prospects are likely to reach their upside, and which are a bigger risk to turn into a Hayden Penn, or Cabrera or Ponson. If you can unload guys like that when they're getting lots of hype and value is high, you stand a better chance of being the one to come out in front in such a trade. Easier said that done, of course, but some teams are able to do it this way.

P.S. Fire Trembley!

Wake up and smell the coffee.....

So let's pretend that you, average sports fan, is a front line pitcher. Lets say you are a #1 or #2 rotation guy....and this is your free agent year.

Why in gods name would you sign with the Orioles?

You have a chance to sign with anybody you want and you choose the Orioles?

Money you say? Oh come on now.....wouldn't you rather go to somebody that has a chance to win it all?

You cant possibly love crab cakes, or Ocean City that much to sign with the Orioles.

We just had a homegrown kid who signed with the Yankees last year....he got more money and is with a winning team.

The chances of signing a front line pitcher is slim and none.

Do we need one....HELL YES!!!....are we going to get one.......don't think so.

Success in life comes from playing the hand you were dealt as well as you can...you are not always going to have 4 of a kind.

It appears that our hand right now is in prospects, not proven vets. if that is the case we better get some people who can teach these kids to play, and to win.
I would have loved to see the O's pick up a guy like John Smoltz......not to be the ace of the staff but to mentor the young arms and minds.

As the world famous Mick Jagger once said....."you don't always get what you want, but if you try real hard you get what you need".

BrantKelch you make no sense.

What exactly is the point of signing a $20+ million dollar free agent prior to the 2009 season when:
a) we know we won't even be approaching respectability until 2010
b) we haven't been able to evaluate the vast majority of our talent, and thus the high-priced free agent might prove only to block a home-grown prospect who has emerged as a star, and
c) if the risk of injury or declining performance is always present as soon as you sign a pricey free agent, the uncertainty only compounds over time.

So, why not hold off on signing the expensive free agents until your team is ready to compete so the investment will pay off, you know what holes you have to fill, and you are better able to gauge the player's ability (rather than guessing if they'll still be good in 3 years).

To illustrate my point, imagine if we signed Teixiera to the $200m contract it would have taken to get him to set aside his Don Mattingly fetish and play here.

1) He might have been an MVP this year and helped us to 10 more wins- still way out of contention- but then gotten injured the next year or suffered from an unexpected decline in performance (performance uncertainty increases with time), in which case the contract would have been a bust AND it would have prevented us from going after another big name.
2) he might have been decent, but our minor league first base prospects (Snyder et al) might have torn it up this year and emerged as an all-star talent. We would then have two top-notch first basemen and then a hole somewhere else, that we couldn't fill with a big name.

We aren't the Yankees and we can't buy every high-priced agent on the market, so making a premature investment on the order of a Teixiera or Sabathia level contract could end our rebuilding hopes before they've begun.

The Orioles have been spending money where it has been prudent- locking up Markakis and Roberts to long-term deals, signing their draft picks (some to record bonuses), and rebuilding their organization from the bottom up. Buying a top free agent before this year would have been a huge waste of money, and even worse, would have endangered the Orioles' chances of being successful in the years to come. Hold the purse strings until you are ready to compete, you know what you need, and you can accurately evaluate the available talent, and THEN you buy. To act otherwise would just be stupid.

It is vey possible that the BEST SOLUTION for the SUN would be one or two TRUELY capable REPORTERS with a medium understanding the the insides requirements of BASEBALL. NOT REDNECK stupidity!

Just watching Tillman. He doesn't push off with his right leg when pitching. He just sort of lifts it from the rubberr when he releases the ball. He'd get a couple more mph out of his fastball if he pushed his body, and with that his arm if, he would really push off with his right leg.

It makes sense for the O's to try and find a "Kenny Rogers"-type veteran who can come in and help the young guys like Detroit did back in 2006 when they reached the world series.

The Orioles need somebody to teach them all how to win on a daily basis and veterans who come from winning organizations can do just that.

"...vey possible... truely capable... the the insides requirements..."

johnjames are you referring to yourself when you say "redneck stupidity?"

Is there any way to add a brief intelligence test to this blog (nothing too difficult, just evidence of a working knowledge of English and some capacity for intelligent thought) to keep the rest of us from having to read this drivel?

What happened to "We'll grow our arms and buy the bats" or something like that. The time to buy a top level arm was last year. That MIGHT have resulted in one or two of the other add-ons benefiting from a top level pitcher's advice and straigtening himself out. It didn't look like Kranitz was able to do that. As the dominoes didn't fall the OP's don't have to bring up four rookie starters and they come up at the end of the year or next year. Add another quality guy during the off-season (If Andy is able to, unlike '08-'09) and things are a lot different. Oh yeah, add a Big Bat or two also. If quality players see that the O's are following in the footsteps of the Rays.. "If you build it they will come." Of course that would require a GM with some imagination and guts. Haven't seen anyone around here like that.

I don't much care for country music. There are a few exceptions, but mostly I can't stand it. And I don't really get into the WNBA at all, or haiku poetry, or model building. So would I really enjoy spending my time on country-music or WNBA or haiku or modeling Web sites, whining and bitching about how terrible that crap is? I really can't imagine I would, but then there are all these people who hate Orioles baseball apparently having a ball hanging out here with O's fans. I'm old, and maybe I've just forgotten what fun is, but I don't get it. (And you gleeful O-bashers, please don't explain it to me. I'm not a big fan of Bull---t either.)

i am not a real angelos fan,but we just might want to see him stay around awhile. just for the sake of discussion. if he should become unable to perform the duties of a owner. who is the next in line to take his place.

Have Angelos stay around 'just for the sake of discussion'???

All we've had for the last decade is a lot of discussion... I'd much prefer actual WINNING

Meredith is not good for my blood pressure.

Hope Ray is for real these days and shuts it down.

If Lackey isn't interested, and other guys like Bedard, Hudson, etc. are too high-risk (and I think they are), I think a great solution would be Kevin Millwood. He's durable, solid, and a nice veteran, and I don't think he'd come as expensive as the top tier guys, although he'll command plenty of money with the fine year he's having.

"I hate to be fatalistic, but it would only take a couple of sore arms and maybe one regressing youngster in spring training to send the front office scrambling again for some stop-gap starter like Adam Eaton. And that is not a particularly unlikely scenario."

Reading that gave me chills, and in a very bad way. I'll be having nightmares after reading that.

I like McPhails philosophy to 'grow arms" and "buy bats" because pitchers are fragile.

I like what I am seeing from the young rotation and have hopes for next year.

For the guy that says "he is going to pick another team if the Os don't improve".

You can't pick another team, if you are a Marylander, the Os are your team. Bleed orange and stand by them - good times are down the road.

This team won’t contend until at least 2013 and that is a big maybe. Look at the current roster its years away from any revolutionary rise to the top of the AL East. Ty Wiggington, Melvin Mora, Denys Baez, Brian Bass, Matt Albers, Jeremy Guthrie, and special attention to Koji Uehara. We are on the hook for 5 million for him LOL. People mentioned to make him a closer but he only took this job because we guaranteed him a starting position which is totally nuts! This teams payroll is a total mess and its going to take a few seasons to purge these bad players. MacPhails plan is going to take awhile it could work but there is a ton of work to be done.

DT, deserves some credit because the O's have been playing pretty good on this road trip, as well as the series prior against the Angels. They are playing teams in the hunt for playoff spots and I don't see any quit in them. I am not convinced he is the right manger in the long run, but no way can anyone say that the O's haven't been playing better lately which shows how much Huff, didn't mean to this team.

The F.O. has the right to think they have the arms, but in my opinion, they need a legit veteran. The funny thing is, the O's still need that inning eater pitcher that wont post a high 5+ era. I know Garland, didn't want anything to do with us last winter, but I think he signed a 1 yr. deal with AZ and I still think, he can provide innings and be a good leader, as he challenged the D Back pitchers to step up their game when Melvin was fired, and that's pretty gutsy for a guy who hadn't even been with the team for more than 6 weeks.

Pete, curious what you think on this, but watching Matsui, now that he is only DHing, he is starting to put up some real good numbers. Can't help but think that a veteran power hitter in a small park like ours, would pay big dividends. I know it's easy to look at his age and the injuries, but this a DH, we are talking about and someone to be consistent at the plate, plus Godzilla and Koji, on the same team would be good for business in the East and I am not talking about the AL East.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I can't imagine they would go with that old a player.

Upcoming free agent SP's, a few at least.

John Lackey

Rich Harden

Brett Myers

Brandon Webb (very small chance, but a chance)

I wouldn't mind if we signed a Brett Myers or Rich Harden.

Koji got a steal this season. He basicly robbed the Os with a gun. 5 million and I dont even think they know his current location hahah

Birdland Todd

you do know this is the 1st series they won since the all star break right

Where's Jeff Ballard when you need him? Support your local midgets.

You're right that we need good pitchers, which implies a criticism of the O's for failing to make offers for Halliday and Lee. Halliday was openly available, and the Phils landed Lee, a genuine, top-of-line ace for prospects.

The O's have prospects, whom we greatly over-esteem. We should trade some of them for the next top starter who goes on the block because some cheap owner is trying to dump salary.

Of course, the problem is that we have one of the cheapest owners in baseball who would rather lose with re-treads than do what it takes to win.

We keep tip-toeing around this, but at the end of the day, we are not likely to find a team of great players whom other scouts and GMs have mysteriously overlooked. To get good talent you have to pay for it

You're right that we need good pitchers, which implies a criticism of the O's for failing to make offers for Halliday and Lee. Halliday was openly available, and the Phils landed Lee, a genuine, top-of-line ace for prospects.

The O's have prospects, whom we greatly over-esteem. We should trade some of them for the next top starter who goes on the block because some cheap owner is trying to dump salary.

Of course, the problem is that we have one of the cheapest owners in baseball who would rather lose with re-treads than do what it takes to win.

We keep tip-toeing around this, but at the end of the day, we are not likely to find a team of great players whom other scouts and GMs have mysteriously overlooked. To get good talent you have to pay for it

Seth, no doubt that the O's, aren't putting up a lot of wins, but they are playing close games against good teams. At this point, wins and loses, mean nothing to me, as I like seeing guys like Berken, Tillman, Reimold, Pie and the rejuvenated BRob, give it their all. I do think this will pay dividends next season.

Lance, I am not sure the extent of Brandon Webb's injury, but if the price was right, he would be an interesting pickup. Bedard, I'd stay away from because his injuries are happening more frequently and he is a power pitcher so unfortunately for him, I don't think this will be his last surgery.

I have no problem with The Plan. I have no problem with stockpiling pitchers. And while I predicted 58 wins (1-2 for each of the 37 arms they had, just kidding), I did think that was one route to go. I even predicted a big rebound for 2010 (although I may be revising that one.)

My argument for going after significant pitchers last year had a little to do with the lack of overwhelming chances with the 37 we had, but also not every offseason yields the possibility of a proven pitcher with great credentials.

The Orioles -- well, nobody consistently below .500 -- is going to rebuild totally from within. Oh, the Tigers did it in the mid-1980's. And a few teams have that one year that fools everyone that a corner has been turned (Why Not? anyone?). But by and large, it must be done from all angles and with all resources.

Opportunities to sign a difference-maker do not come up often. To say it makes no sense because "we aren't going to contend this year anyway" is losing sight of the benefits of a four- or five-year contract. And, yes, if you suck for a good while, you may even have to throw in that sixth year, too.

None of that means building with numbers and from within using youth is wrong. Those are opportunities, too.

If the free agent market is bare, there's no need to go shopping to appease fans like me. But if you have strengths from within, it doesn't hurt to target somebody else's stud in a trade. There are other teams looking for numbers, too, and dumping a salary for them could be a winfall for us.

Birland Todd

Wins and Losses mean quite a bit.. The disturbing thing is now with Jones out this current lineup has maybe 2 guys that can get something done night to night. Also Berken and Tillman look horrendous.

Berken 6.39 ERA 3-11 Record

Tillman 4.58 ERA 1-2 Record

I guess with numbers like that for Orioles pitchers Tillman could be considered our ace with Bergy injured lol

Its going to be awhile before this team gets better it’s a mess.

Waspman,

I agree. We don’t need any free agent pitchers right now unless we get somebody decent that’s willing to come to Baltimore at a deal which isn’t going to happen. What we need to do is continue the farm system talent stream and to work to get everyday position players. If we go after any free agents we need to get a third baseman first. Mora gets put into situations night after night where he could put numbers on the board and fails. We cant pinch hit for him either because if we put Wig out there he could lose games for us in the field. The Orioles need to use rookie pitchers and maybe a decent free agent better than Eaton but not CC or Doc just someone capable of winning like that guy we missed last season Looper or maybe Jamie Moyer. Until we have a decent lineup, starting pitchers, pen and make a 500 season we need to stay away from big free agents. All they do is stink on bad teams.

Where are we with the Cuban defector or the 16 year old SS? How is it that we signed the 35 year old broken down Japanese relief pitcher for $10M to start and the Red Sox signed that young kid from their industrial league?

Is it just me or are we working backwards? We need a front of the rotation starter, a 1B and 3B who can hit 4 and 5 in the order! Otherwise 2010 may, MAY be 10 wins better than 2009

A veteran pitcher would be a nice addition, if one can be found at a decent price. Long term contracts for pitchers are very risky.

What these young pitchers really need is more run support. It's easier to pitch with a larger lead than a one or two run lead. 10th in the league in runs, where we currently rank and have often ranked in recent years, is simply not good enough. Fourth or better is needed, but the O's won't get there without better plate discipline, good hitters with power at third and first base (someone who has numbers like Adam Dunn, Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard would be perfect), and a .360 team OBP instead of our usual .330.

Welcome to Trembley watch everyone!

Accept the challenges so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory.
- George S. Patton

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