You want to see heart? Turn to the Nats right now.

The O's awesome offense is facing Halladay. But if they lose it'll be Trembley's fault. And the reason the O's don't play good on Sunday is because Trembley is the antichrist.

Yo Pete you heard about the Mets thinking about firing Omar Minaya and trying to hire Billy Beane?

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Pete's reply: No, but nothing that happens up there would surprise me.

Ha! No way could the O’s land Billy Beane. AM is the O’s generic version and besides the Orioles don’t need Beane or Money ball. They just need to grow some balls.

some money balls?

Pete,
I hope with Brian Matusz, being our starting Pitcher today, that Dave Trembley puts Matt Weiters in the line up, instead of
Chad Moeller with Robert Andino at second
(if Brian Roberts can't start) instead of Ty Wigginton.
Let us wait and see.

hey schmuck, you say the orioles don't play well on sunday's. schmuck, they don't play well, period. they will probably draft in the top 3 or 4 next year. i see improvement despite the w-l record and i'm encouraged for the future..but they are a last place team. may the schmuck be with you.

It would certainly make my Sunday very sweet if the O's could take Blue Jay way and deposit it in Lake Ontario! As for Trembley, he is the right guy at this stage of the game!

Pete,

How many wins would Joe Torre have with this club right now?

DT isn't the perfect manager, but the fire DT posts have to stop. How many games has he been "out managed" as opposed to the players being "out executed"?

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Pete's reply: I love Joe Torre, but he never proved that he could win with a bad team. I suspect Trembley would look like a much better manager if he had that Dodgers or Yankees roster.

Why fire DT when Terry Crowley is the one who can't get these hitters to learn to bunt (I thought I saw Bigfoot when Andino bunted yesterday) or take some pitches. Yesterday Wieters swung at the first pitch with the bases loaded. What is a hitting coach for but to stop those shenanigans?

Fire DT

While its impossible to quantify the difference a manager makes with this current roster (or any roster), the goal of this franchise is to improve, yes? How many managers win championships by managing scared? By trying to prove they belong each and every day?

In my opinion, an effective manager is one who is not afraid of being second guessed, is not afraid of stirring things up when they need to be, is not afraid of upsetting a veteran, a reporter, or a fan base. DT has a built in excuse (rebuilding) which he leans on more and more every day to save his own job. in my opinion.

How long would DT last in New York?

Peter: Please write a whole column about why the Orioles would send their top pitching prospect out there for inning after inning with a stiff back.

Please.

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Pete's reply: Depends on what's going on with him whether it's the right thing to do or the wrong thing. Nobody feels great in August. If he's just having trouble getting loose, he might be okay to go out there and pitch. If he's having a back spasm or getting radiating pain in his legs, of course you wouldn't let him pitch.

I think the "Sunday Jinx" is a thing of the past. Starting with the sweep of the Phillies, the O's are 5-3 in their last 8 Sunday games.

Oh, and Pete, I think you need a rule that any "Fire DT" post contains a suggestion as to his replacement. And it can't be Davey Johnson or Earl Weaver.

Pete-I dont enjoy having a last place baseball team any more than anyone else here .
So here is what I suggest we al do .
Focus on positives
1)our # 1 draft pick Hobgood signed
2) our top three salary earners Huff, Mora and Baez ( their combined salaries are $ 23.5 million) are coming off the books this offseason
3) O's found new permanent Spring home for both major/minor camps ( after 19 year search)
4) We found out that Reimold , Matusz , Tillman , Hernandez , Weiters , Bergeson can play at major leagues ( can we stop whining about their mistakes ? They are ROOKIES for crying out loud)
5) Although I am sorry to see Zaun , Sherill and Salazar depart via trades , look at prospects they bringing in for O's ( If you going finish last place with them , why not finish last place without them? )
6) we did see the 'Baltimore ' on their road uniforms ( didnt we whine for this change for years?)
Dont get me wrong , everyone (myself included) want to see improvements on W-L standings , this is gonna toughest part of MacPhail's rebuilding job.
While the losses and pretending are testing our patience , we need to see this rebuilding job all the way.

Go O's

All of you people expecting a winning team from macphail and his methods may be waiting a looooooooong time.

In 12 yrs in charge at Chicago, his teams made the playoffs twice~~ thats 2 of 12 seasons,folks. And u dont have to deal with the Skanks and the SUx in that divison either.

To be accurate, he was only the GM for 3 of those seasons. BTW, he never finished above 3rd place in that weak division when he was acting as GM

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Pete's reply: He also got the Cubs to within one deflected foul ball of reaching the World Series for the first time in 60 years. I guess it's just a matter of what you consider to be failure.

Jason,

What about the Twins???

~~In 12 yrs in charge at Chicago, his teams made the playoffs twice~~ thats 2 of 12 seasons,folks.~~

and Joe Torre managed one team to the playoffs in 14 years before going to the yankees. So what? Oh, and did the tenure in Minn with the two World Series slip your mind? Or dont they count if they dont support your argument?

Jason,

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not up to speed about everything with the Cubs. Haven't they always tried the bring in the free agent method. The O's have tried that method, and never gotten very far with it. The method the O's are currently trying, which is build from within the organization, can be excrutiatingly painful, but the rewards might be worth it in the end.

I'm also guessing it probably takes a little longer with the method the O's have chosen.

jason c
huh?
2 world series with the twins

what about the Twins ? Other than that happened 2 decades ago and in a different era in the weakest division in baseball, I think if you actually look at what happened there, it wont really bolster your case for AM. First off, he was hired in aug 85 and the twins made the World Series in 87. According to most folks here (including the blogger), u cant turn around a team that fast. It has to take 5 yrs, it just has to. In the Twins case, the nucleus of the club was already in place when AM took over:Puckett, Hrbek, Gaetti, Brunansky and Viola constituted the nucleus of what would later become the World Series champs in 1987, and none of them had been drafted into the system by Andy MacPhail

In his second full season, Andy MacPhail's team--led by Puckett, Gaetti, Viola and all of these guys that were with the team when Andy was hired--won the American League West with the second-lowest win total (85) ever for a division winner in a non-abbreviated season (the '73 Mets had 82). The fact that Kansas City had a down season (a banged-up George Brett was limited to 115 games) paved the way for the Twins, who augmented their 56-25 home record at the Metrodome with an awful 29-52 record on the road.

They were twenty-three games below .500 on the road away from the big baggy! Even though Schmukeroni likes to blame bad luck on keeping the Cubbies out of the World Series, you could argue that a lot of good luck got the Twnikies their 1st Title He conveniently ignores that. I wont take the 91 WS away from AM, but since when does 1 WS title of 21 seasons in charge put you above scrutiny ?!?!?!

Adding to the Twins' charmed season (their pythagorean record, incidentally, was 79-83), was the fact that, due to pre-determined arrangements that were the norm at the time, the AL West winners were guaranteed home-field advantage in the '87 ALCS, and the American League was also guaranteed home-field in the World Series.
The Twins had some talent. However, it should be repeated here that Pucket, Hrbek, Viola, Brunansky, Gaetti and Burt Blyleven were already in place when supposed genius Andy MacPhail came into town. In fact, the only everyday position player that MacPhail had acquired was outfielder Dan Gladden--all of the other everyday starters had been in Minnesota's system before MacPhail had come on board in '85. Of their five-man rotation, the only MacPhail acquisition was aging veteran Joe Niekro, whose 6.26 ERA as the fifth starter left him out of the postseason rotation, limiting him to two innings. The only other significant pickup by MacPhail was, admittedly, a legitimate one--closer Jeff Reardon.

The 91 Twins were good and I cant take anything away from them, but it should be noted that the twins only finished above .500 in the putrid AL West in four of those nine seasons led by AM. The first couple of winning seasons with someone else's players should not be ignored either

Scmuckeroo likes to say that bad luck kept the Cubs out of the WS, u could just as easily say that good luck (and another gm's players) got him into one too.

Bottom line 4 of 9 winning seasons in Minnesota in the notoriously weak AL West.

In Chicago, 5 of 12 winning seasons in the soft NL Central

SO AM has had winning seasons in 9 of his 21 yrs in charge. He has made the postseason 4 of 21 seasons in charge. Does 4 postseason appearances in 21 seasons really put you beyond reproach ???

What about his .cumulative 475 winning pct in 12 yrs in charge of the Cubs in the soft NL Central? How long can you ride out the 91 WS? Especially after considering that the last 12 yr stretch has been below .500 ? (14 if u count the O's)

AM teams have made 2 postseason appearances in 17 seasons since the 91 postseason. I guess its easier to "trust" macphail than take a close look at his record.

Jason - NOTHING puts you above reproach. Especially not in the internet age. But some of what you say is talking out both sides of your mouth.

If, as you point out, the Twins had a nucleus in place, you are being disingenuous when you compare that to anyone here saying you cant turn the Orioles around in less than 5 years. Different situations and I feel it is a credit to Andy that he knows the difference and handled the two situations differently. Coming in to this mess he recognized that his best players were problematic and the talent was not in place, the organization was a shambles and the immediate past had been a disjointed, chaotic mess. In each situation he brought in what was needed. To Minn, the tweak to put them over the top and in Baltimore the total overhaul, not just of the team, but of the whole organization.

It is also talking out both sides of your mouth to bring up history when it suits you (Cubs) but then whine that the Twins record is TOO old to matter. Granted you do address the Twins era.

The Cubs were just a cluster F under the Jekyll and Hyde ownership of the Tribune Corp especially after they went public.

You can break down stats but they dont mean a thing, as the stats for Joe Torre which I provided, illustrate. All of the regurgitation you provide has been rehashed here and elsewhere ad nauseum. I dont care about any of it. In the here and now, MacPhail has given this franchise organization, professionalism, consistency and a systematic plan to rebuild the organization from the bottom up instead of trying to do a Yankees-like top down miracle, without the Yankees resources as PA had tried to do for a decade. And it is not all MacPhail. It started with Flanny or Beatty or whoever put Joe Jordan in charge of the draft. MacPhail had some key pieces in place, albeit in the minors, when he got here but knew enough to know which way to jump. Again, something 11 years worth of predecessors either didnt recognize, or didnt have the freedom to act in accordance with. No blind Faith (great band). No unreasoning trust. NO ignoring the facts. Just watching the way the man has worked since he got to Baltimore. Which while not perfect, and always subject to dissent around the fringe has IMO been exceptional and has the team on the right track.

So providing stats is talking out of both sides of my mouth ? Im not really sure how to engage in intelligent discourse without providing some facts and stats~~ I get it, stats only count when they prove YOUR point. I guess that works somewhere....

I gave AM credit for the 91 twins, but provided evidence as to how he both a)won with another gm's players (see list above) and b) got a little lucky while winning in 87 (so few wins, automatic home file advantages,etc)

His record in Chicago is that of a loser (.475 winning pct) only 5 of 12 winning seasons--He never finished above 3rd place as GM

My question is a legitimate one~~ How long does Macphail get to ride out his 91 WS victory? esp considering, he has mustered only 2 postseason appearances in 17 seasons since the 91 WS and has done so in weaker divisions than he's in now?

Lifetime, AM has a losing record running teams in the Major Leagues This fact is indisputable. He has more losing seasons than winning ones and more losses than wins.

He never made the postseason with the Twins again after 91 and did so only twice in 12 yrs with the Cubs.

Just because Macphail is better than the balloon heads that proceeded him doesnt mean his approach will turn the O's into winners. If you take his previous record into account, that's obvious

Moreover, If you think Macphail has been "exceptional" with the O's, its apparent that you have much lower standards and expectations than I.

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Pete's reply: Once again, Jason, what exactly did you expect in Year Two? If they had spent $300 million to convince Teixeira and Burnett to come there, they still wouldn't have finished better than fourth. Is that your goal?

Jason,

Thank you for taking time and researching your point with ACTUAL statistics. I appreciate when a poster digs for information.

Here is some more information most O's fans don't know. From 1954-2004, the Orioles and the Red Sox had IDENTICAL winning percentages (.523) while the Yankees LIFETIME is over .560

Only in the last five years have the Red Sox pulled away from the rest of the AL East. Give Toronto a little credit for being an expansion team and having the same number of championships (2) as the Red Sox in a shorter period of time.

Going back to the old AL East since 1954, even Cleveland and Detroit have been to as many or more WS as the Sox.

A point to be made for the years AM spent in Minnesota is that there was only one team to make the playoffs in those years and there Actually was a dynasty (the Oakland A's in those years). So I would say that AM did not do that horrible for his time there. The Cubs were a horrible team in the early to later 90's as well (sort of like the O's) for the previous ten years before AM.

Also you should take into account the small market team Minnesota is and was over the years. But who really cares. The teams with all the money will ruin baseball in the long run if a salary cap is not put into place sort of like the NFL or Hockey. Just take a look at the financial status of the Indians.

Jason,

Actually McPhail traded Viola (who hit the tank right after the trade) for Rick Auguilera and Kevin Tapini (#2 starter 16-9 in reg season in 91). Auilera was an All-Star MVP and had 42 saves in 91 and saved 3 games in the ALCS and 2 saves and a win in the WS.

He also signed Jack Morris to a one year deal. You know, 18 wins, Games 1 & 7 WP and WS MVP in 91?

Pretty important moves I'd think?

It's not OK to rip off some guy names Keith Melchior's blog rant about how McPhail is overrated and post it as your own either FYI. K, thanks bud.

James C,

I didnt know citations were needed in blog entries, lol~~ Im not trying to get published--besides I only coped the parts about the macphails moves to make it easier

Why do the apologists always think they are in charge here ?

I dont need you tell me what is ok--- Im sure you wouldnt like it if I told you that living in your mom's basement is not ok~~its really not my business, but thanks for having such an overinflated sense of your own importance to chime in as the boss of the blog---If a censor was hired, it wouldnt be you.

So why dont you worry about censoring your own entries

Jason,

I just thought it was funny since I came across that blog entry when I was looking up the Frank Viola trade (you know, the one that totally discredits your argument about McPhail only winning with inherited players). Keith didn't mention the highly important trade either, but I realized how familiar the arguments in his blog sounded when compared to yours.

I'm hardly the boss around here, nor do I claim to be. I just thought it was funny how someone so self-rightgeous was basically stealing the work of others. Just a blog comment or not, there is something to be said about respecting someone else's intillectual property. I didn't censor you at all though. Censoring involves the "supression of speech." I just said your argument is factually incorrect and ripped off of someone else on top of that. I even gave the original author credit so people could go read what he said if they so chose. I don't see how I've restricted you, or anyone else at all.

Actually, I'm quite willing to help you with your posts. I've already touched on plagarism, but I can help with editing and proofreading if you'd like? :)

PS My mom just yelled down the steps and said I have to stop talking online and go rub her feet. Talk about censorship.