I agree Peter (for the most part). The people calling for Trembley's head are ridiculous and hysterical. But, it is hard to be patient with a 3 to 4 year rebuilding plan when the 8-10 years preceding that plan have been just a bad joke. Frankly, unless Angelos starts throwing around Steinbrenner money, I don’t see the Orioles being competitive for at least another 2 years (2011 at the earliest). But, I back MacPhail’s plan for rebuilding the franchise 100%. I don’t know how much more patience the (dwindling) fan base has, though.

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Pete's reply: Fair point. I don't know how long the fans can wait, that's why it's important for the front office to be aggressive this offseason. I don't necessarily that they have to spend $200 million and make the whole run, but they've got to fill some holes so the team can be much more competitive next year than they are now. If that happens, there's always a chance of something special happening ahead of schedule.

Pete, i'm on same page of the rebuilding manual as you are.
Glad to see these young starters bonding....and Arietta is still on the farm. Wieters is about to explode, Reimold's way ahead of expectations...Snyder and Bell may help at corner infield spots soon.
things look great for a competitive team in oh-10. It all depends on the starting pitchers going deeper into games....and maybe Koji and JJ can split the closer role.
Comments?

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Pete's reply: It always comes down to the starters, but I think you may be on the right track with JJ and Koji.

I totally agree with what you've said Pete but I disagree with O's Fan in Montana that the call to replace Trembley is ridiculous. Trembley has proven time & time again that he doesn't have what it takes to be a successful manager. You can use the excuse all you want about not having the tools to work with but he has shown that he can't even make the most of the tools that he does have. His coaches (with the exception of Kranitz & Crowley) are as equally deficient. The Orioles rebuilding effort (which I think is coming along great in only 2 years) is going to succeed IN SPITE OF Trembley. I just wish they wouldn't wait to make the move at season end and do it now before these young kids get used to losing as the vets did long ago.

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Pete's reply: I don't know about that, but I don't think the Trembley discussion is terribly relevant at the moment. Changing managers right now would just tie the team's hands for the future, unless Andy has somebody like Bob Melvin ready to step right in. An interim situation would be a big mistake in my opinion.

best post ever, Pete. That one might just get me through the rest of the year. Thanks!

Let me throw this out to everyone. Pie seems to be improving; Luke Scott is very streaky and shouldn’t even be on a team like the Orioles. The O’s lineup has too many holes in it ie: swinging at the first pitch they see not working the count, etc to support Scott’s long periods of ineptitude. I put forth the following for your critical review. Don’t be nasty, it’s just a thought. What about moving Reimold to 1st base, Jones to LF, Pie to CF, Wigginton to 3rd and Huff to DH or vice- versa. The reason I’m giving for moving Jones to LF is because it appears that he doesn’t have the speed to play shallow and be able to go back on a fly ball over his head, how many times have we all seen this?

KC...put down the pipe and just think about what you said. :)

Jones doesn't have the "speed??". The only reason he lets some balls go over his head is because he plays too shallow and T-Bone is horrible at positioning the outfielders.

I agree the Scott is an agonizing streak hitter but that's the only thing I agree with in your proposition.

Here, here, Pete. I am on the fence about Trembley but what you say needed to be said, read, heard, and understood. I personally am enjoying all the young talent on the field and think it's far better than the stop-gaps of the last 11 years. Keep up the good reportage ...

The main thing people need to do is understand the jump in Wins that will occur once the young players figure it out. Just look at the Tampa Bay Rays: 2007 They won only 66 games and finished dead last. In 2008 they won 97 games and took the division. It will be painful, but once the light comes on it will come on strong.

Pete...correction on one thing you said...I am enjoying this. No, I'm not enjoying the losing part, but I am enjoying the most exciting Orioles baseball in the new millenium. For the first time in years, I am disappointed when I have to miss a game because I really feel like I'm going to miss something. Much of what you had to say in this blog entry I also said in a post a few days ago. I was lambasted by people who accused me of being holier than thou. My point was simply what you have said: everyone knew we would stink this year, so why are you being irrational now that the prediction has come true? I hate what I see in the standings, but I love what I see on the field. We are headed in the right direction and I think we are not far from competing with the big boys. Before that can happen, our rookies need to struggle a little. That's what I see on the bad days. On the good days I see incredible promise. Thanks for airing some of this out.

On an unrelated note, have the Os tried to pass anyone through waivers?

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Pete's reply: I'm sure they have, but they refuse to give me a teletype machine so I can keep you posted on that.

I agree Pete,
the highlight of the season is watching the rookies cut their teeth and get better. I enjoy watching Bergessen, Tillman,Hernandez and Matusz pitch. I like watching Nolan Riemold and Matt Wieters learn on the job and get better every day. I also enjoy watching Adam Jones and Nick Markakis become better ball players this season. while I would love to see the O's finish atleast in 4th place or reach the .500 mark for the season, I understand that its not likely. But I am hopeful for next season, maybe we can fill in some of the holes that developed this season with some talented veterans this off season ?

Good post Peter.

I may be very lonely online here saying that I still am enjoying watching the Orioles. I'm entertained by the players in their lineup and I keep looking at the potential on paper for next year.

I'm excited by: Robert, Jones, Markakis, Riemold, wieters - and I enjoy watching one of the best defensive shortstops in the league in Izturis. People complain about his bat - but if he hits 260 thats fine in the 9 spot with his defensive skills.

And lately I've been entertained by the pitching.

Then again, I typically stop watching around the fifth. But this time last year I wasn't watching at all.

Pete,

You are absolutely correct, 100%! However, for you or the rest of the media or the fans for that matter, to just accept as matter of fact that we should be in last place is just unacceptable. I for one have stressed expectation managment since our front office failed to secure any decent pitching prior to the season. And despite that failure, still doesn't mean that I, the fan base or the media has to sit back on our hands and accept that we suck!

As a resident of south central Pennsylvania, I see Philly media all the time, do you think the Philly media would say, Oh another down season for the fightin Phils? Not!

And while we should have all been prepared for it to get worse before it got better, I've seen more analogies tying the O'S to the Pirates than I have to the Rays! Just from a pure and objective point, our current starting rotation is much better than that at the beginning of the year, is that reflection on our talent scouts and front office who put this roster together?

I myself have tempered the daily tantrums about this team and try to look to the future. But I'm old enough to remember the past glories! Many of these bloggers have never seen the O's win!

I think the fan base and the MEDIA need to keep the heat on our front office and OWNERSHIP to do the right thing! Anything less will bring 11 more years of futility!

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Pete's reply: I don't know if telling a team that they are expected to win 10 more games than they are capable of winning is going to have any effect except to reinforce the notion among the fans that the team is a failure when it doesn't. Baseball is the rare sport where some teams have to be honest with their fans about what is going to happen. That doesn't mean they accept poor fundemental play, however, but you can't fool the players or the fans. Everyone knows how good (or bad) their team is.

The onlt thing that happens if the O's win 72 games this year is they get a lower draft pick next season. That is it.

I'd still have liked to have seen the O's try harder in Free Agency last year. Not much worth while this upcoming one.

I'll give all the kids a chance. Hard to be a bust at 21 years old.

Great post Pete! Management was very clear from the beginning that this was a rebuilding year and that expectations for 2009 were very low. Almost all the kids that were called up have done very well. Berkin is the only one who has struggled mightily and should have, IMO, been sent back to the minors about a month ago. Tillman will come around, Wieters is getting better game by game, Reimold, Bergesen and Hernandez have shown they belong. This is what we've been waiting for, kids with ability. Next year will be better, and 2011 and beyond should really be good. I know it's difficult to preach patience after all these losing seasons but patience is exactly what the situation calls for. Go Birds!

Couldn't agree more. Everything is right on schedule, if not ahead. Improvement cannot always be measured in wins and losses. Anyone who could be capable of blasting Tillman this early does not know anything about baseball. Joe Torre, Terry Francona or Bobby Cox would not have this team doing any better than it is already. Chill out people! Moving forward slowly is better than standing still.

Might I add Jeremy Guthrie to the wait-and-see list?

Everyone has him as some sort of major bust that we should have seen coming this season despite two pretty good years in a row.

He has had two problems: The WBC clearly set him back, but thankfully we won't have to worry about that for awhile. The other issue was that he was getting the ball up and the opposition made him pay by knocking a boatload of those high pitches out of the park.

Well, based on last night, he and the coaching staff seems to have identified and tackled the problem pretty well, and hopefully he will keep it up. We are constantly whining about guys not going deep into games. Well, Guthrie often goes deep into games, so there!.

The whole town is talking about a brand spanking new Kiddie Korps that has not been seen in these parts since 1960. Well, there is no reason why Guthrie should not be a part of it. He's a good pitcher who - if he hasn't already - will work out his problems, regardless of his age, and be a big part of the future starting rotation.

Well since the nationals have been playing watchibly well since getting the new manager maybe we can get Strasburg next year.

Pete: I agree with you one-hundred percent and I am looking forward to a competitive team in a few years. However, if the Orioles are outbid for the talent they developed by the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers or any other 800 lbs gorilla big market team, I am sure I will not forgive baseball and will no longer follow baseball. It is obvious the only way to help small market teams like the Orioles is for Major League Baseball to institute an NFL style Salary Cap. Without a salary cap, the Orioles will become the Pirates east and you know how that works. Major League Baseball owes the Orioles for electing to put the Nationals in Washington DC. Peter Angelos was very angry about the move because he was sure what it would do to the Orioles. It also owes a competitive chance to all the other small market teams.

Another dead on post peter,

I often do not look at the score and realize it's the progress of the young playes - who collectively cannot compete as yet...but Wieters was 4-5 last night...Jones homered off a top knoch closer. Guthrie gave them a solid 7...all good things - but they're young and will need adjustments next year. For those judging Tillman already, I have 2 words for you......Matt Cain!

Pete, I'm right on the same page as you. But I understand why people are frustrated. For 9.5 years, they had seen terrible team after terrible team with just as bad management in the front office.

Now, I think most fans would say that the 2.5 years of Andy MacPhail's rebuilding program has largely been a success. Young players are are arriving daily, and you can start to project a future successful rotation and you can pick out what positions need to be filled and which ones are good to go.

And yes, every non-delusional Orioles fan would have told you that the Birds would finish last. And those same fans are currently calling for Trembley's head and throwing away the rebuilding project.

Why? Because it's infinitely more frustrating to live through a rebuilding project than it is to accept that the team is going to be bad in the beginning of the year.

As the rebuilding project is happening, you don't know if it's ever going to work. Every bad start is magnified. Every veteran who makes a poor baserunning decision is magnified. As a fan, you don't expect playoffs, but you do expect progress. So when you keep on seeing the Orioles play like it's men vs. boys when they play the Sox or the Yanks, it's frustrating. When the Orioles cannot win a close game on the road, you question if they have a killer instinct and if they ever will. You're hoping the rebuilding project works, but even if it does, will it be good enough? Will the Orioles have Toronto Blue Jays syndrome in which they just are in the wrong division?

My prediction? The Orioles finish with around 65 wins this year, make a huge jump next year and finish close to .500, and are a competitive team by 2011.

As tough as it is to hear, "Just wait two
years...", especially when we've heard that every year for the past decade, just know that MacPhail's plan is the first legitimate plan that we have had in the past decade.

The O's rebuilding effort has been on display for several months now. The stars of the future are mostly here already, and the old veterans with their bad attitudes, bad baserunning, and lack of hustle are on their way out of town after this season.

I really think the O's have a shot at finishing at .500 in 2010, and being a legitimate contender in 2011, as their young pitching staff matures.

I haven't been critical of Trembley because I think his demeanor is good for the young players, although a stern taskmaster who could give the old vets a kick in the pants would be a good thing. But those guys are gone after this season anyhow, so D.T. may be a really good man to develop the youngsters. I just hope he teaches the kids the value of bunting - and Roberts too. If Roberts would bunt and either beat it out or make the corner infielders play shallow, he could easily get one extra hit per week, which equates to a 40-point gain in his batting average, which would make him a HOF calibre player.

Or I could be wrong about all of this. But I'm an optimist. I'm drinking the Kool-Aid for 2010-2011.

Great post, Pete. The hyperventilating condemnation that pours down on this blog every day is disheartening, but it's really no more harsh than what is generally read in online posts, where people can remain anonymous and say any damn fool thing they want.

I love the O's direction and their young players. They should be very competitive in the coming years. The larger issue facing MLB is the lack of a salary cap, which ensures that the teams that spend the most will almost certainly be the playoff contenders year after year (a la Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc) and the poorer teams are simply cannon fodder (a la Pirates, Royals, etc).

Pete,

Good post, but I still think we should go after at least one "big bat" this offseason. Not sure what will become available, but it would be a nice signal to fans that we are nearing the end to our 10-15 year rebuilding project...and are really trying to win while Brian Roberts is still below social security age.

I understand the Tampa Bay example (win cheap), but we would do well to pick our spots in free agency to add to and enhance gains made from good drafts and improved player development. The Red Sox and Yankees are not going to raise a white flag any time soon.

The best tonic for O's fans in the near term is to win the Division. It can be done, but the first step is to make a real commitment to making it happen.

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Pete's reply: Agreed. I would like to see MacPhail come up with one run-producing corner infielder. I don't think they can wait around and gamble that both Brandon Snyder and Josh Bell pop in 2011.

This team is still 3-4 players away from contenting. Their number one need is a power-hitting 3rd baseman, and there aren't many choices in the free agent class this year. Mike Lowell is probably the best one among them. Josh Bell is at least a year away. There number two need is an ace of the staff. Bedard could fill that role, but he is having an MRI on Friday. A power hitter, and again there're only two to consider in Holliday and Bay and they probably don't want to come here. They're also out fielders and not first baseman. Third need is a left hander in the bullpen.

Orioles' record may not indicate it, but O's have made good progress this year.

This team is still 3-4 players away from contenting. Their number one need is a power-hitting 3rd baseman, and there aren't many choices in the free agent class this year. Mike Lowell is probably the best one among them. Josh Bell is at least a year away. There number two need is an ace of the staff. Bedard could fill that role, but he is having an MRI on Friday. A power hitter, and again there're only two to consider in Holliday and Bay and they probably don't want to come here. They're also out fielders and not first baseman. Third need is a left hander in the bullpen.

Orioles' record may not indicate it, but O's have made good progress this year.

Pete - Looks like all your critics are nightowls and won't read your post until they get up in a couple of hours.

I agree as well and having been around for a long, long time, I can say that I try to make sure I see all of every game now (I just had to call my wife because I forgot to set up DVR for today's game - what an adventure!!!). In the past few years, I'd watch something else and flip over about 9:30 PM to see if game was worth watching to the end (most times it wasn't).

Hey - we might stink but at least it looks like we're doing something, whether it ends up successfully or not.

I'm still on board with you Peter. I don't think anyone could have realistically thought we'd contend this year. But here is what I think this year has done. It has shown us what we will be able to fill with our farm system and what we will have to go outside the organization for. Its obvious we will be able to grow much of our own rotation as well as bullpen but our hitting which almost got shut out for the 8th time last night is terrible. Granted our young bats will improve but its obvious we need one big bat at 3rd or 1st to hit in the middle of the order. That isn't coming from within. I guess in conclusion Peter now that we know our weaknesses we need to go out on the market and get them. If Angelos doesn't allow a few key signings this year(power hitter, reliable reliever and one veteran starter) I say this rebuilding thing is a joke and Angelos is just using it as an excuse to field a cheap team! If Mcphail goes out and gets a few key players I say the O's will break 500 for sure next year, if he doesn't I will never watch this team again. Thats a promise. Oh, hope you are healing up well. Do you have plenty of word and number puzzles to keep you busy?

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Pete's reply: Thanks for asking. I wish I had time for some word puzzles. There always seems to be something to do, even when you're stuck on the couch.

Thank you Peter! Well said. I have been saying this all along. Do not judge the O's this year by their record, because we all knew this was going to happen. Like you said, keep track of the progress of the young players, not the O's loses. We are now on our 12 losing season, I think we can show a little more patience for this plan to develop. I for one am excited every time I see one of the young pitchers take the hill. I am excited every time Jones and Reimold are at the plate. This is going to be a great team to watch in the years to come. Let the young kids develop without knitpicking everything they do. Let the coaches do their jobs. We can start the knitpicking once they are seasoned veterans. For now, LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Thank you, thank you, thank you Peter. The knee-jerk-instant-gratification tenor here -- a staple of the blogosphere and sports talk radio -- is really a pain in the neck to sit through. Reading some of these posts is like sitting next to an angry guy with bad breath on a bus ride to the TastyKake factory. You want to make the trip, and you know it will have a happy ending, but what a drag getting there.

The football segue is apt, too. I've always felt that some fans of both sports get a little tangled up, thinking that a game or two during the baseball season have the same import as a couple of football games. Gotta let that go, or stop watching baseball at the end of April.

Nobody thought this team would contend this year. Those of us who like to at least drive through Jimmyville once in a while thought maybe there was a chance of getting a win total in the mid-70s, but this was supposed to be a year of growing pains, not the ongoing pains of 1998-2007.

Yes, it's frustrating to see veterans making some of the bonehead plays we've seen this year, in the field and on the bases. Yes, hearing players gripe about their role gets old real fast. And yes, we'd all love this to be the year we stop hitting ourselves in the head with a hammer, just so it can start feeling better.

But any cogent plan takes time to bear fruit. You can ask for Angelos to back a dump truck full of money on free agents, but that's not likely to bring success, long-term or even short-term.

First, you have to get past the old contracts the previous management signed. Second, you need to get some talent in the minors, as a foundation for growth, and on the big league roster; it's less expensive, and creates an air of competition for jobs, which can only benefit the team. Then you can start filling in the blanks on the big league club with cash. Of course, we have the added layer of being in a deep strong division, meaning we have to start winning without the free agents, in order to prove to the big-name guys that we can hang in there against the Red Sox, Yankees and now Rays. Almost a Catch-22.

Finally, after a decade of Wren-Thrift-Beatagan-Flanaquette management, along with varying amounts of Angelos elders and offspring seasoning to their tastes, we appear to have someone in charge with a real vision, and lieutenants among the scouts and coaches who also have some grasp.

Anyone who wanted to jump ship had 10 years to do so. Anyone who wants to bail now is just not paying attention.

Well of course everyone's frustrated as hell, with good reason. I have been a McPhail backer from day one, I think his trades have been good ones, and I believe in the rebuilding program, but I still get frustrated as hell watching the O's lose game after game after game.
I certainly never expected the team to be competitive this year, but are we fans entitled to nothing?
The team that is playing today bears only a passing resemblance to the one that came out of Spring Training. We've seen some of the young hopefuls come up and look very promising, but Trembley's mission this year was stated pretty clearly. He was to stop the seemingly endless string of soul crushing, end of year disasters. Yet, despite the new young faces showing up throughout the team, we see yet again another second half meltdown as if nothing had changed.
Mora for example, is still in the lineup nearly everyday, despite humiliating his manager publicly, and hitting about as well as I would.
I am certainly not calling for the rebuilding program to end, nor am I deluded enough to believe that we are one or two FA's away from competeing next season, I'll be quite happy with a winning record next year.
But Trembley's a big league manager who's job is to get the best out of the players he has, and to do whatever it's takes to win some games. If this team, after all these changes, is still so far away from even being able to play .500 ball at home, how am I supposed to believe that next years team, with most of the same guys, is suddenly going to set the division on fire?
I don't have the answers to how to make this team play better, but it's clear that Trembley doesn't either, and that after all is what he gets payed significant money to do.
The rebuild must continue, but I am becoming convinced that part of that rebuild needs to be a new manager.

Pete,

Concur on your thoughts about the big picture. Couple questions;
1. When will someone in the clubhouse start talking about "winning", as opposed to "being competitive". You can be as competitive as you want but if you don't have "winning" in your vocabulary, you will never have the mindset.
2. What do you see happening at 1B next season? Two seasons out?
3. When you talk about free agency choices, do you see anyone out there who also might bring along a leadership personality? A great player without that will not help the team move toward the Yanks and Sox level of competitiveness.

Hope the Achilles is doing OK. I know that not moving mine or putting weight on it at all for 5 weeks drove me nuts!!

Yes, there has been a lot of complaining around here and while I'm sure most of us had pretty low expectations for this year, some of the griping is justified. My frustration is more with the rapid decline of key veterans such as Huff and to a lesser extent Mora. In my wisdom, I fully expected Huff to put up numbers similiar to '08 and in fact, pushed for the O's to extend him for a couple of more years (shows much much I knew!). Mora really tapered off and I was expecting at least 20 hrs/80-90 RBI from him based on his stroing finish.
What this all means is that our offense has struggled scoring runs and combined with the below average pitching, it means a lot of losses and more to follow as the good teams fighting for playoff spots lay the beatings on us. I am actually pleased with the pitching overall, based on what we started the year with in the rotation.
So, in a nutshell, we are back to square one at 1st and 3rd because there are still no MLB-ready replacements and another year of sub-par production at those key power spots is justifiably cause for concern.
In the big picture, we are making progress with our rotation and if all the pieces all fall into place, maybe we have a decent 'pen. Trembley deserves some criticism but hopefully, he learns from his mistakes and can improve as well. I'm not sure he's the 'guy' to lead us to a title but like our farm system with resepct to corner IF, maybe there aren't better options out there.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with using this site to vent and/or hand out some constructive criticism. I thought that's what these forums were for but by the same token, I guess we should try to see the light at the end of the tunnel and try to enjoy the good parts-like the solid play of Jones/Markakis and the emerging starters.

Keith -

Might I ask which pitcher the front office should have acquired?

Should they have spent $180 million on CC Sabathia?

Should they have spent $100 million on A.J. Burnett?

$10 million for Jon Garland's mediocrity?

$10 million for the ancient Randy Johnson?

$40 million for Oliver Perez?

Braden Looper and Randy Wolf were about the only decent pitchers that made a lick of sense financially for the Orioles. And seeing as they signed with the Brewers and Dodgers, respectively, I think they were a bit more worried about winning than money.

The fact is, it's been damn near impossible to get free agents, especially free agent pitchers, to come to this team for the past 10 years. So, in reality, it makes absolutely no sense to attack the front office for not bringing in a big name or two. But now that the O's have a respectable core, I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Mac could reel in a veteran starter and a couple of corner infielders on short term contracts. I'm thinking Doug Davis or Brad Penny (depending on how Tillman, Matusz and Hernandez perform for the rest of the season), Adam LaRoche (if Aubrey Huff leaves) and Adrian Beltre.

And to Pete -

Well said. I completely agree.

Peter,
"but the Orioles have a chance to be competitive in the third year of Andy MacPhail's accelerated plan."

I don't think most Orilole fans subscribe to that theory.

When you lose, no matter what is forced out through the media, you lose. Fans have had more than enough and have every right to be disatified with the product.

Great job pete continuing your up most support of this franchise. You continue to do a great job of trying to defuse this horrible situtaion on a dailey basis. So now we as fans are suppose to just watch the youngsters and see how they do and not worry about whether they win any games or not.So if they win 60 games this year instead of the predicted 70 0r 71 games then you will still be satisfied right Pete,just keep looking at the youngsters. When we as fans buy season tickets at full price we are just suppose to look at the youngsters and not worry about winning games or not. Pete you take the oriole cause to a point where it does get sickening as fans to read about on a dailey basis.And don't tell me if i don't like your blog to stop reading and stop posting because i will never stop because although i agree with the rebuilding plan there has to be some accountability to win games and not just watch young kids play.

David Hernandez = Second Coming of Daniel Cabrera

But hey, I am all for watching the young kids pull teeth for another 12+ years. It was fun watching Loewen, Penn, Cabrera, Minor, etc. come up and become instant busts. I am used to this.

Pete,

I think most folks around here indeed have tempered expectations for this team, particularly since the youth movement is occuring earlier than anticipated.

The problem that a lot of folks are having is the acceptance for losing just because the team is rebuilding. This team has to learn how to win. In order for that to occur, the players and managers must put out a 110% effort every single night. To the above average fan, we aren't necessarily seeing that out of Trembley and the O's. Horrid base running, predictable hit-and-runs, and little deviation from the "management plan" ruffles a lot of feathers. These aren't things that we fans should have to continally suffer through just because the team is rebuilding.

That loss last night is squarely on Trembley. No way ever should Wiggington be at SS when Andino is on the bench in a close game. Two hits in the 8th are outs with Andino there and 0 runs would have scored as a result.

And then to have Mora bat in the 9th???? By-the-book-Trembley ALWAYS matches lefties against righties ... ALWAYS. Except for yesterday because it was Melvin after his monday tirade. And as for Zaun, why not put Weiters in? Let him learn how to hit in a pressure situation. I doubt he learned much from watching Zaun stare at a fastball (with no movement, by the way) for a called strike 3.

It's not the rebuilding issues that have fans in an uproar. It's the non rebuilding stuff that folks are angry about. There is no way for a young team to learn how to win if the "no brainer" stuff isn't managed correctly

Liz, Coppinger, Ponson, Richard, Lopez, Stephens, Riley, etc. List goes on and on.

Pete - So you're saying you don't read posters with dissenting opinions to your own about the team we love and have followed for years? (40 plus years in my case).

I could go on and tell you where you are wrong with your diatribe in this post, but guess there is no point.

Liz, Coppinger, Ponson, Richard, Lopez, Stephens, Riley, etc. List goes on and on.

On your Aug. 2nd post you said".. I mean, how much worse can it get?"

Isn't that what the Captain of the Titanic said after hitting the iceberg?

The Orioles are 2 1/2 games from having the worst record in the A.L..

Pete - So you're saying you don't read posters with dissenting opinions to your own about the team we love and have followed for years? (40 plus years in my case).

I could go on and tell you where you are wrong with your diatribe in this post, but guess there is no point.

Pete - So you're saying you don't read posters with dissenting opinions to your own about the team we love and have followed for years? (40 plus years in my case).

I could go on and tell you where you are wrong with your diatribe in this post, but guess there is no point.

This year's team expected to be bad with no established starting pitching topping the list of deficiencies.
Next year there will be expectations for great improvement based on a bunch of young pitchers getting their feet wet this year. No one will remember many were called up not because their minor league performance demanded it, but because the O's were desperate for any kind of pitching.
Starting next year with a starting staff of great potential but less than 50-60 total major league victories means you can write off 2010 as well. Every year, the spring training mantra starts with "if everyone plays to their potential."
It doesn't work that way.
This is a bad team and almost certainly will be a bad team again next year unless free agency brings some unexpected treasures.

I am looking deeper than won-loss record. I'm looking at a team whose offense under Terry Crowley has consistently ranked in the bottom third of the league in runs and OBP, due to his aggressive approach, which plays in a division that includes the two top runs and OBP teams in baseball nearly every season. If we don't improve our plate discipline, and thus our scoring, it won't matter what our young starters do, as we won't score enough for them to win consistently. Pitching alone isn't enough to contend over a 162 game season.

I'm looking at a team that still consistently finds ways to lose close games, and hasn't shown any signs of improving at that. They've actually gotten worse since the break - 10 losses by two runs or less. The difference between winning and losing such games is one or two quality at-bats by hitters, and/or by pitchers (starter or relievers.). One example - our pitchers have done poorly with two outs this season, and so have our hitters - a bad combination.

No question the orioles are the worst team in both leagues. They really stink. So here's an idea. I think the O's should publicly challenge the winner of the Little League World Series. Make it a best 3 out of 5 and maybe, just maybe, the O's can win two. I was thinking that maybe David and Brian could win two but Hernandez is getting rocked today so I don't know. Certainly the rest of the staff wouldn't have a prayer.

Sorry Pete, I can't let you get away with that fan smackdown. It was Macphail himself who said earlier in the year that although the team was rebuilding, he intended to be competitive at the same time, and not throw away the year. More recently he said that he felt the team was deeper this year and he would be disappointed if there was another second half collapse.

I agree that we all predicted the team would finish last again and I predicted 69 wins back in April, but we all hoped that they would exceed expectations just a little.

The team is actually playing worse than expected, if that is possible, and it's the way they are losing that has fans upset.

I fully expect Macphail to fire Trembley if the team gets to say, 5 and 23 coming out of the break. Even though the team is rebuilding, Macphail needs to get someone in here to make them play harder and smarter with an eye towards next year and beyond.

What is going on now is simply unacceptable.

I couldn't agree with you more NEBRASKA JEFF, pete takes all this to a dylusional level with his opinion being the only right one. Where is rick maese and david steele in times when you need a reporter to report the facts instead of trying on a dailey basis to branwash fans that have endure all this crap for many years.

I'll withhold another "With You 100%." Though I am. :)

Couple thoughts...

Fears about Tillman are unfounded. He just needs to adjust his fastball. I was so happy on Monday to see how nasty his curveball was. And his changeup was equally good. He's gonna be a good pitcher. Let's let him learn.

I do want to express some caution about hopes for a contending 2010. We will definitely be better, and I think a realistic hope would be a 500+ season for the first time in 13 years. It will take another year for this-year's rookies to mature into stars. More importantly, an early clamor for contention could lead to another Bobby Bonilla deal. I don't want one ALCS. I want a dynasty. And jumping too soon for the goal can lead to stupid deals that create a snowball effect that leads us to where we are now. In my opinion, the last 13 years started with 1996 and that deal. It wasn't the whole cause. The main cause was inept management. But that deal seems to have been the pin that started the mass deflation of a great rebuilding effort in the early 90s.

I hate the Yankees, but they have done it right. They worked out of the basement they were in in the 80s by building a talented core (see Jeter, Rivera, Posada) that evolved into a championship organization with a championship mindset. They then shelled out the dough to continue that organization and mindset. If anything, the last 13 years taught us that you can't buy a championship team if you don't have the base and mindset already there. The Yankees didn't create this dynasty by spending $200 million a year. They sustained it that way. Let's let the kids get us out of the basement. Then we can become champions.

I predict 2011 at the earliest. It would probably be better that way.

Milwaukee -

Of the prospects you listed, Riley, Coppinger and Loewen are the only ones who were even close to being as higly regarded as Wieters, Tillman and Matusz. Riley was ranked the 15th best prospect by Baseball America in 2000, Coppinger was #19 in 1996 and Loewen was #13 in 2004.

Liz (68 in '08), Ponson (78 in '98), Penn (81 in '06) and Minor (35 in '98) also made the list.

Anyways... I know it's easy to jump on a team for not developing its top prospects, but of your list, Richard, Lopez, Stephens and Cabrera were never ranked in the top 100. And when your list "goes on and on", it goes on and on to a bunch of guys with no real potential. So basically, we've had seven top 100 guys flop over the past 13 years. That's really not that big of a deal.

And here's a link for you: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/26983.html

Ever heard of Derrick Gibson? Matt Drews? Remember Paul Wilson and Karim Garcia? All four of those guys were ranked higher than Rocky Coppinger in '96.

Sean Burroughs, Ryan Anderson, John Patterson and Dee Brown were ranked higher than Matt Riley in 2000.

The fact is, every team has tons of top prospects that flop. For our Riley, Loewen and Coppinger the White Sox have James Baldwin (8) Joe Borchard (12) and Kip Wells (14). The Yankees have Ruben Rivera (3), Drew Hensen (9) and Matt Drews (12). The Rockies have Derrick Gibson (13), Chin-Hui Tsao (15) and Doug Million (19).

Unless you follow the prospects of every team, it's always going to look like your team has a whole bunch more failed prospects than any other team.

Pete, yes the Orioles have a plan in place, but we have been hearing that for 12 years now. Yes the Orioles have what looks like some decent young talent but that also remains to be seen how much. If the O's get a free pass every time they stunk, why would they try to get better. The embarassment of Free The Birds which got national play in print and television was the only media challenge to this putrid ownership. I havent heard any national baseball who think the Orioles will "contend" any time soon. Hope the leg feels better!!

Great post Peter, along with several of the following comments you made.

(Although I have to laugh at those who claim you are a daily shill for the team, yet are still obviously daily readers.)

The whole point of building up a team from essentially nothing is sacrificing the now for the later instead of continuing to make the same mistakes. This does not require a blind eye to the past and present (quite the contrary, since you want to avoid making the same mistakes), but it does require patience and a belief that the right moves are being made.

Skepticism based on the history of the franchise is fine. Panic based on a few expected losses is not.

You cannot spend time screaming for a real plan and direction for the franchise, act happy and willing to accept the consequences when you get one, prepare yourself for another losing season, and then when things go as planned (and actually start looking to be ahead of schedule as they have with Tillman and Matusz) completely turn on the team.

Those who wish to do so should take a serious look at how much they really want to see the team win.

I'm 26. I was not even four months' old when the Orioles won the World Series, and their last playoff appearance came during my freshman year of high school. We're all sick of losing. But these things take time. As you said, generally more time than even we're looking at taking.

There is plenty to complain about when it comes to individual factors whether it is the manager or the coaches or the bullpen or veterans not acting that way. But none of those have anything to do with how the overall plan is going.

Perhaps I have been reading a different blog, because I don't really see the mob hysteria you point to.

Nobody expects this team to be competitive this year. Nobody thinks Trembley's ouster would put the O's in contention for a pennant. Nobody thinks Tillman is a bust after 10 innings, and nobody is suggesting that we abandon the rebuilding plan that has yielded the first signs of organizational improvement in more than ten years.

When I read the comments posted here by many devoted and long-standing Orioles fans, I see more of a concern about executing well on the things that are within the team's power to do. This means putting in pinch hitters for the two of the worst hitters on the team when it's the ninth inning and the winning run is at the plate. This means effective base-running fundamentals and plate discipline. This means not running a young pitcher out time and time again to take a confidence-destroying drubbing when he is clearly not yet able to compete at the major league level, and would be better-served working on his stuff in the minors. It means setting a consistent tone throughout the organization that the Orioles are committed to winning and we do the little things right.

I'm not deluding myself into thinking that better use of the hit-and-run, less base-running mistakes, and a halfway intelligent use of position substitutions and pinch hitters would make the Orioles a contender this year. But it would yield a few more W's and a few less demoralizing defeats, and most importantly it would drum into everyone's heads the importance of hard work and preparation, 100% effort, and a relentless focus on doing the little things right.

Having a competitive, winning mentality isn't something we should put off until 2010-2011, and in the meantime we should just be satisfied with the early progress we've made under "the plan" and shut up. Quite the contrary, this level of discipline and effort is the ante, with substantial multiplier effects on team and individual performance, including those young players we should just be sitting back and "tracking" in isolation from the team.

You suggest that we should ignore individual game outcomes in favor of focusing on the gradual year-to-year improvement in organizational player quality and depth. It is surely good to have a good macro perspective, and I would agree with the general progress of the team under MacPhail. However, I would assert that for a team in the Orioles' position, it is also important to focus on each game, each play, each pitch and player or manager decision-- not with the W or L in mind, but with a relentless focus on refining and perfecting the process as an end unto itself. This will yield better player technique, improved organizational culture, and other key benefits that will combine with the personnel improvement to yield a true winner.

Suggestion: Stop obsessing over the fringe postings of random readers about abandoning the plan, giving up on Tillman after 10 innings, or accusing the Sun of not being critical enough of team management. These are clearly not the view of the vast majority of your readers. Instead, try to understand why it is so important to some of us that even if the Orioles don't have the talent yet to be a winner, they can at least show the effort, discipline, and relentless focus on improvement of a winner. These lessons- which are gained and lost on a game-by-game basis, not at the 30,000 foot view- will yield dividends once the talent comes around.

Chris -

Obviously, the MLB club was desperate for pitching, but you can't say for certain that performance wasn't factored into the equation with Tillman and Matusz.

Tillman put up a 2.70 ERA with 99 strikeouts and only 26 walks in 96 innings in Norfolk. If the O's just wanted an arm, they could have easily called up Chris Waters or David Pauley.

Same thing with Matusz. If they just wanted an arm, Waters or Pauley would have sufficed. But Matusz was dominant in Bowie with a 1.55 ERA, 46 strikeouts and 11 walks to go with a clean 7-0 record.

So I'd say those callups were at least somewhat based on performance...

Andrew -

You must be reading a different blog.

If I had a buck for all the comments calling for Trembley's head and the freakouts about big losses to very good teams, I'd be a rich man.

♫♫ AAAAMEN ♫ AMEN ♫ AMEN ♫♫

Great post Pete. I'm sure your check is in the mail from the Law Office of Angelos. What a joke. Why can't we get the NY media to cover this team instead of the State run media of the Mr Angelos and Sons Network? But hey we know what happens when you question the O's: you lose your press pass and have to park somewhere near Memorial Stadium. When does Capitals' season start?

B- read closer. Peter said fans were acting as though another manager would have the Orioles IN CONTENTION, and I haven't heard anyone say that. The views that were attributed to readers, including that one, were mistated or exaggerated, which distracts from the valid grievances and the value of game-by-game analysis.

Sorry, you'll have to find another way to get rich.

Exactly right Peter - I keyed in on your comment about not knowing how to win and lacking a killer instinct. We can cultivate these young guys' talents but will need someone to fill the leadership role. I don't see any of the current veterans filling that role.
Roberts - surfer dude/laid back mentality
Markakis - never shows emotion/excitement
Huff - "Hey guys, when's payday?"
Mora - never mind
Scott - too inconsistent
Zaun - closest thing we have to a leader, which tells you something

They will need a player or two, as well as a proven pitcher, that have won at the major league level to make the next jump. I like DT but still see the team being handed to an experienced, winning major league manager at some point.

I don't even worry about the score of games at this point! I go straight to the box score and check on Jones, Markakis, Reimold, Weiters, etc. If Tillman or Matusz or Hernandez or any other youngsters are pitching I check on them. At this point it's all about the youngters and how they do separate of W's and L's. I see a lot of similarities in this team and the teams of the early 90's on their way to playoff runs. Except one thing - we have a much better farm system now and that can only mean good things! Hey we could be the Pirates or the Nationals! Sorry Pirates fans....I know our records are similar but it seems their organization is stuck in a constant state of forward and backward. I truly believe finally we, the O's are moving forward! Just as Pete said in an earlier posting...the night is always darkest just before the dawn! The sun is about to rise on this organization!

I think you've overstated the degree of dissatisfaction many of your regular posters have with this season, or at least the reasons they are dissatisfied.

Short of taking a poll, I'd venture to guess that most fans are satisfied in some measure with the job Andy MacPhail is doing in re-building the entire franchise, bottom to top. If they're not, they haven't been paying attention these past dozen years. Yeah, not every decision or trade he has made is above reproach, but by and large this organization is a lot better off now than it was before he came aboard.

I think most of us are happy/excited about the abundance of promising young starters we've seen so far (it's a far cry better to watch them struggle than the veteran "starters" we began the season with). Again, so far some have done better than others, but I think most of us realize that it may take 2-3 seasons for a prospect to find his groove at the major league level. Heaven knows, we gave the likes of D-Cab and Sir Syd more than enough opportunity.

However, I do think the performance of the veterans and the manager is fair game. If a young starter struggles and we lose because he doesn't have his best stuff, fine. But if we lose games because veterans make rookie mistakes or the manager makes questionable decisions, then not so fine.

The O's are moving in the right direction but they are still some loose ends to tie up. Trembley needs to be replaced and Crowely needs to be replaced. We also need a power-hitting 3rd baseman(Chone Figgins, anyone), and a new 1st baseman(Brandon Snyder). I don't see Huff and Mora here next season at all.

How about bringing in a retired veteran like Mike Mussina to help the young pitchers out...either as a pitcher or coach...heck he won 20 games last season!! After a year off he may be getting the itch to play one more season...

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

Well put, Peter...

Instant gratification freaks will be miserable if winning games and a place in the standings is what matters. Yes, it hurts to see a team so far out of everything in August, but looking at the roster of today and tomorrow in Norfolk and Bowie, there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago. While the Orioles project to have almost the same W/L stats as last year, it's a new game this year.

~~Great job pete continuing your up most support of this franchise.~~

Great job yourself of proving you have no idea how to disagree without being disagreeable. . . and it is utmost, not up most.

~~You continue to do a great job of trying to defuse this horrible situtaion on a dailey basis.~~

You continue to do a great job of filling your posts with snide, smarmy personally insulting attacks . . . and then throw in a love letter explaining how it is nothing personal when you punch Peter in the face or stab him in the back.

~~So now we as fans are suppose to just watch the youngsters and see how they do and not worry about whether they win any games or not.~~

You are not "supposed" to do anything.

~~So if they win 60 games this year instead of the predicted 70 0r 71 games then you will still be satisfied right Pete,just keep looking at the youngsters.~~

Predicted by whom? And who cares if you, Peter or I am "satisfied"? Your boss might keep you on despite being dissatisfied with your performance. You might not quit despite being dissatisfied with your compensation package. So what? If you are dissatisfied, dont renew. Why is such a simple concept so hard to understand. You are not "supposed" to be happy, "supposed" to renew tix, or "supposed to be smarmy and personally insulting in your posts. You CHOOSE to do so. You arent the only person here who has decided there is more entertainment value to pissing and moaning than looking objectively at the team's improvement. But it isnt because you are "supposed" to do so. Why is your "satisfaction" based on anyone's predictions? That is like the other poster on this thread who is mad because he thought Aubrey Huff would repeat his numbers from his career year. So he made a silly assumption and now it is Aubrey's fault? The same poster "assumed" that Mora would play like his second half instead of like his first half. Why? And if Melvin doesnt, how is that poster's expectations Melvin's fault? Same goes for you choosing to believe in one man's predictions of 70 wins instead of another man's prediction of 60 wins. You were wrong so you bash the team for it? Are you six years old?

~~When we as fans buy season tickets at full price we are just suppose to look at the youngsters and not worry about winning games or not.~~

Again, you are not "supposed" to do anything. Buy the tickets. Dont buy the tickets. I dont care. Cant speak for Peter but I guess he doesnt care. But once you have made your choice, you can either look at the progress and see the improvement or you can choose to piss and moan that any level of improvement or promise for the future is inadequate because you bought tickets based on some mysterious unnamed ghost who "predicted" more wins or because you decide the team is "supposed" to do better or "owes" you not only improvement but doing it the way you decide they should do it and to the extent you decide they should improve. Personally I buy tickets to the Bowie Baysox, Frederick Keys and Bethesda Big Train. Partly because I enjoy the game of baseball, at any level, and partly to make sure those teams I enjoy watching dont move away or go under. That is MY reason. Not because I am "supposed" to do so but because I choose to do so. I dont get enjoyment out of booing those teams or coming online after every post to bash them after every loss. So I "choose" not to do so. It is not for Peter or the Sun or the Orioles or any poster on this board to dictate to you what you are "supposed" to do. But we are within our rights to question why you "choose" to put so much time and energy into something that you find sickening.

~~Pete you take the oriole cause to a point where it does get sickening as fans to read about on a dailey basis.~~

Again, you have the right to choose. Choose to stop reading if it makes you sick. The fact that you actually take pleasure in continuing to read and to piss and moan is telling. Frankly your schtick has grown more stale than the Geico commercials that befoul MASN broadcasts; your posts are masturbatory. They give you pleasure but do nothing to advance the discussion or benefit any other member of this community. You are like Bill O'Reilly. You think that because you spin the opposite direction, that your posts aren't spin. In truth you spin more and harder than Peter does, hell harder than the O's website does; opposite rotation is not an absence of spin.

~~And don't tell me if i don't like your blog to stop reading and stop posting because i will never stop because although i agree with the rebuilding plan there has to be some accountability to win games and not just watch young kids play. ~~

wow, so you think your smarmy posts and personal attacks are a moral crusade to force accountability on the team? Liar. I dont think even YOU believe that towering steaming pile of pooh. You wont stop because you get more pleasure from the team losing than winning. This last sentence is like a sick pedophile priest wrapping himself in clean white robes, totally sanctimonious and disingenuous. There is nothing remotely moral or crusading behind your low blows on Peter, just your particular flavor of gratification.

Whine about the slow, methodical system of building from below, but what's the alternative? Bring in a big star or two and hope they can turn the team around for the one or two years they'll stay here. Remember Albert Belle in an O's uniform?

Whoa there, Lucky. Orioles were predicted to finish in last place by whom, you ask? I just looked up the pre-season predictions of The Sporting News, USA today baseball, Sports Illustrated, and the New York Times. All of them, every one, predicted the O's for last place in the division. Don't like those sources? Let's see your favorites, the ones which have the O's doing better. What? Can't cite any? You mean you were just talking out your . . . ear? Thought so.

Al East - I agree with you totally. Just because the O's are rebuilding doesn't mean the manager & coaches should get a free pass. How can anyone say with a straight face that Trembley is the man to lead this club through to success? Even though during rebuilding, wins & losses take a back seat to progress, it doesn't mean that the manager shouldn't be accountable if he makes decisions that cost the team a game. Trembley's made so many bonehead decisions that he can get away with "Our guys are really trying out there" so long before it wears thin. Samuel is a total joke as third base coach and is only on the team because he's fluent in Spanish. T-Bone isn't much better at first and is absolutely abysmal at positioning the outfielders. (except for Markakis who is smart enough to do it on his own)Even though I don't expect this team to win consistently until the young guns get more seasoning, why lessen the chance of winning with minor league coaches & manager.

Lucky Horseshoe - please state your mind next time :)

rob- how about a little patience when you hit the post button (especially when you are making fun of other people being impatient). your stuff is insightful, no doubt, but by the eighth read it starts to get old.

Chone Figgins would be a leader from probably the Best organization in baseball, a Great #2 hitter and a gold glove caliber fielder. And the Angels have a young 3b (Wood, who they would not trade to us) so maybe they are not desperate to keep him.
If Bobby Valentine is considering coming back to MLB then the Orioles should strongly consider him over re-signing Trembley.
2010 needs to be a big inmprovement in my opinion. 2009 is about developing the kids to be winners in 2010.

A few points: Huff had a contract year last year and Mora is in decline and whining about respect. No reason for these guys to be in a O's uni now or in 2010. Personally, i would have traded Mora to the Giants for a nice concessions gift certificate at the stadium after his little "I'm sucking but I should still play" tirade. Hey, the concession food is good there...

With the starters: I think eventually the rotation will be Arietta, Hernandez, Tillman, Matusz and Bergersen. Guthrie is what he is - a .500 pitcher at best. He is not an ace and will never be. If you don't think McPhail is planning where to trade him right now, you're nuts. These young pitchers will come around and we have others in the system if anyone falters. (Berken would be a name that comes to mind.)

For everyone saying "we need some free agents this off season" my question is WHO? Has anyone actually looked at that putrid list that said that? At 3B, Figgins would be nuts to leave LA for Baltimore and to get him we'd have to serioiusly overpay. The next best option is Hank Blalock and that's it.

1B is even worse with the best ones being a 38 year old Carlos Delgado or 34 year old Russell Branyan who is fading as we speak. I'll take a streaky Luke Scott or Brandon Snyder at first over that garbage any day of the week.

And how about that starting pitching free agent class? Injury-prone Bedard isn't coming back here and is going to Toronto because he wants to go home (part of the reason the Jays were willing to dangle Halladay) and Brandon Webb isn't going anywhere. The only three after that might even be worth a sniff are John Lackey, Jason Marquis and Rich Harden. That list doesn't exactly knock my socks off and Harden is the only one under 30. That is unless you'd like to do what did before and bring in Jason Schmidt (37), Bartolo Colon (37), Jose Contreras (38), and so on and watch them go 10-12 instead of taking the 8-10 good young pitchers we have and finding out who will get it done.

There is not one true impact free agent at those three positions that will help the O's and McPhail knows it. Why do you think he actually gave up an effective closer to get Josh Bell? Because he's another good young player that will get an audition to see if he can do it in the major leagues. He and Brandon Snyder will get a look and if they work out all the better.

And he's not going to tie up money on recycled junk like that and risk losing the pitchers, a now solidified outfield, or Wieters. Eventually we're going to need to pay to keep these guys here and any more bad contracts would only have the O's hamstrung like we have been for years with those horrible deals for guys like Belle and Gibbons. McPhail made the deals and over the rest of the season and the first half of 2010 he's going to find out what came of it and then make move appropriately.

The only guy I'd like to see the O's really chase is Jose Valverde to replace Sherill. He's a legit player and would bring some much needed fire to the team.

But otherwise, the O's should just stay the course. If they do fade badly again, then I would agree a house-cleaning of the coaching staff is in order. These August/September collapses have been ridiculous and there's enough talent there that it shouldn't happen. And if Trembley is willing to cave to Mora, then he's not the guy to lead the team.

Well said Pete. Couldn't have put it better and couldn't agree more. AM has nothing to do with 13 years of futility and everything to do with 2 years of widely recognized success in rebuilding from pretty much every major credible baseball analyst.

Lucky - next time I see you at the ballpark let me buy you a beer. Even if you want one of those diet brews.

Danny - you misread what Lucky said. He did not say the Orioles were not predicted to finish last. He was questioning mr. lancione's assertion that the Orioles were "supposed" to win 70-71 games this year. In actuality, I don't think any of the major media outlets, inside or outside of Baltimore, predicted them to win that many. The numbers I recall seeing were more in the 60-65 game range.

Great entry Peter, Angelos will be extremely happy with you spreading the company line. You can collect your bonus at his office.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Yes, Bill, I live to please Peter. When you question my integrity because I disagree with you, it usually means that you have no confidence in your side of the argument. I give you a forum to rip anyone you want and you choose me for not saying what you want me to say. Kind of tiny of you, I think.

Pete, I think part of the problem here is that every time everybody predicts the Ravens will go 4-12, they go 11-5. It's confusing.

I don't know about you, but I can't remember the last time I heard people talking about the Orioles during training camp, so maybe that's a good thing.

Danny - sorry I wasnt clear. As CSB Jack pointed out, I was not questioning that they were picked last, just found it silly that someone would carry out a never ending tirade against the team because the poster chose to believe a prediction of 70 wins instead of another prediction of 60 wins. In other words it is not the Orioles fault that some people predicted a better season because they thought Huff would repeat a career year . . . which is obviously called a career year because it is better than all other years in said career. Again, sorry I wasnt clear. If I am gonna be so wordy, I should make sure it is clear what I am saying lol.

BobF - no argument with your point. I disagree because I think with young kids consistency is important but I certainly agree proper fundamentals are just as important. I just think when it is the vets who are the bad examples, you can argue the manager is not necessarily the problem. And I think that Tremblay is being told how to handle these issues. I think upper management wants him to be calm and consistent and "fatherly" for lack of a better term. I think they know hwo they need to lose to make things more focused but dont want to engender fear or nervousness in the kids. I think his measured approach is a result of internal discussions on development. Another example of development being stressed over wins and losses for the present. No proof, just my opinion. At some point you need to switch from teaching mode to motivation mode. No idea if the same guy can do both. Not many Bob Knights in the world.

CSB Jack - thanks but I am even sadder than a light beer drinker . . . Diet Coke. But at least my David Wells physique is easy to spot.

Congratulations are in order Peter. Like me you probably couldnt sniff the Mendoza line, but more importantly for what you are actually paid to do, you seem to be reaching the Cosell line, the point at which no matter what you say, half your readers will love you and half will hate you. The very pinnacle of blogger (or previously columnist) achievement. So named because Howard Cosell simultaneously led polls as the favorite and least favorite broadcaster.

Your best post ever on this blog, Pete.

I am happy to be patient and agree the core of young players is potentially quite talented.

Here's my "issue" --

One of the skills of a baseball player is playing winning baseball. It's as important as throwing, batting, fielding, and pitching.

The O's have a shocking number of players that simply don't play "winning" baseball.

Huff's swinging at bad 3-1 pitches at crunch time is a perfect example. Scott's sequence of horrific at bats since about mid-June. Wigginton's propensity to swing at the first pitch without discipline. Mora pulling everything. (In fact, with relatively few exceptions -- ironically the youngest players -- the whole offense pulls the ball too much).

Look at Polanco's hit the other night to break open the game -- would ANY Oriole have accomplished that? Maybe Wieters.

Offensively, Reimold and Weiters show FAR more patience than the vets. Roberts tends to be very disciplined -- but in his first at bat of the game, only.

Itzuris is another "classic" -- how can you be a .260 hitter, who doesn't walk, has no power AND CAN'T GET A BUNT DOWN EITHER. Yes, he is a nice glove. Yes, a lineup should be able to afford a ".260 hitter" but he is really no better than an NL pitcher in the 9 hole. Moving Wieters out of the 8 spot would do wonders for him as he gets pitched around knowing Itzuris is due up.

We are the antithesis of the Red Sox -- yes, the games were to a degree competitive over the past weekend, but do the O's have a SINGLE veteran as clutch and disciplined as Youkilis, Drew, Pedroia or even Lowell?

Jones, as good as he is, needs to revisit his at bats from the first half of the season when he was outstanding at going the opposite way -- he has reverted to "pull everything" form.

I wonder if Crowley needs to go -- isn't the definition of insanity making the same mistakes over and over again? The hitting approaches of Wiggington, Huff, Scott, Mora and Itzuris are first and foremost the responsibility of Wiggington, Huff, Scott, Mora and Itzuris, of course. But what is the hitting coach supposed to do if not correct these issues with approach? Isn't that his job? Maybe they have pretty swings in the cage, but what is Crow instructing them in terms of a WINNING approach to hitting? I wonder.

Markakis is on a roll, but was also struggling to get key runs in or enhance innings -- lots of key K's and DP's -- having said that, he is young, he is learning and he will hit to the opposite field -- he should be solid for years to come.

As a manager, Trembley may be a fine guy, a good human role model, but for whatever reason, he doesn't manage to win. How else do you explain him not batting Wieters for Zaun on Wednesday night at the end of the game. He has no discernible strategy for substituting players -- he rarely platoons, he almost always lets the starting player go the distance -- he rarely pinch runs.

Maybe it's all a plot to show the weaknesses of the vets, to keep them from screaming at him -- but you would think that of all people, Trembley would have the most on the line to WIN games and teach WINNING baseball -- since his job is at stake.

On the mound, it's a little too early to tell with the young guys -- but for the most part, the pitchers have been weak in the clutch -- Meredith giving up several runs after Guthrie is a perfect example. Guthrie has been awful himself -- Baez has had flashes; except when it counts.

Fortunately, Bergeson and Matusz, based on their early returns, show signs of being able to clutch up and perform when it counts. Hopefully that ends up being true of Hernandez and Tillman, too.

While I am optimistic about the skill level of the young talent and agree that the O's may not be "that far off" talent wise, I remain pessimistic that they have the staff in place to teach/preach/coach WINNING baseball.

rob-
wait for the page to refresh and then check the attendance to how many people think there is so much more to attract interest in this team than there was two years ago.

Well said Peter; congratulations. It amazes me that the same idiots, and yes, I wrote IDIOTS, constantly whine about the great job Andy MacPhail has done since he's been here. I am also a Dave Trembley fan and I don't believe Earl Weaver or any other HOF manager could win with the team the way it has been the last few years. I find most of the negative posters on your blog and the same ones on the MASN blogs just like to hear themselves whine because they, afterall, are experts. KyleProBoller comes to mind as one of many whining "experts". It was so bad the other day after the O's last win that these same people who couldn't whine about a loss, complained about Amber, Gary Thorne and the beer commercials on the game telecast. These aren't true fans as far as I'm concerned. Yes, I am angry as hell that the O's haven't had a winning season in 12 years, but anyone who can't see the talent that MacPhail has accumulated is an idiot. Jim Leyland comes out and says the Orioles are going in the right direction and he admires how Trembley has them always fighting and never giving up. Yet, the "real experts" on these blogs know better, right? It's laughable. I also agree that if they don't like the way things are going, go check out an NFL exhibition game instead. Just watch these same idiots start attacking the Ravens when they start losing. Thanks for bringing some truth and sanity (from Schmuck?) to the discussion. No doubt now these idiots will start saying you're just being a mouthpiece for the O's....idiots.

You are acheieving just what you set out to do.Half the bloggers are against you and the other half are starting to call everybody in disagreement with you a idiots. Way to go pete keep writing these sickening entries and the volume of your posts will keep going up.All these pipe dreamers are in for a big let down and have nobody to blame but you for constantly stiring up the pot with those homer posts that the oriole management just loves for you to keep doing.

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Pete's reply: Interesting point, Bob. So, I would be doing you a service by telling you the thing is totally hopeless? Okay, let's try that. Bob, the whole thing is hopeless. Now, tell me how you are going to proceed. Are you going to still watch the games? Of course you are. So, now tell me what changed other than you seem to enjoy being miserable.

O's Fan in LA- brilliant post
O's Fan (elsewhere?)- not so much

you seem very proud of yourself that you had the courage to say "idiots" 27 times in one posting, congratulations. Unfortunately, the ferocity of your argument does not increase the force of it.

How many times does it need to be mentioned- the win/loss record this year is irrelevant. Thus, the impact of a manager on the win/loss record is also irrelevant. Basic logic here, people, are you with me?

But this does not mean that the manager is irrelevant, because there are MANY OTHER positive benefits, both short-term and LONG-term, to having strong leadership over this team.

Trembley's failures to develop and push players, instill a competitive culture, and manage games effectively, hurt this team. This year and beyond.

~~You are acheieving just what you set out to do.Half the bloggers are against you and the other half are starting to call everybody in disagreement with you a idiots. Way to go pete keep writing these sickening entries and the volume of your posts will keep going up.All these pipe dreamers are in for a big let down and have nobody to blame but you for constantly stiring up the pot with those homer posts that the oriole management just loves for you to keep doing. ~~

Wow, you are like Hannity or Olberman . . . so far to their respective lunatic fringe that a middle of the road centrist like Schmuck seems like a radical bomb thrower from the other side!

First, let me say that I'm a believer in Andy McPhail and the "Plan". I fully support bringing up all of the kids now...especially the young pitchers and let them face the "baptism under fire" so the Orioles can evaluate whether they are really prospects or suspects. With this information, hopefully the team can make wise decisions this off-season.

This said, however, I think the media should be torched by the fans, but not for its timidity in calling out the team over its residing in last place, but rather for its seeming willingness to accept the continued losing without asking some very pointed questions.

Keep in mind that fans view people like you, Rock Kobotko, and Scott Garceau (to name a few) as their advocates, their "friends at the factory". You have the one thing we don't which is ACCESS to the players, manager, front office and ownership. We want you to ask the tough questions that we can't. We're not suggesting you nitpick or micromanage every play, but we DO expect you to hold Dave Trembley and Andy McPhail's feet to the fire.

Problem here is that the media does not do this in Baltimore. Dave Trembley should be thankful he doesn't have to answer to the media in NY, Philly or Boston for his decisions. They would be screaming for his ouster long before now. It's not like we're talking about a manager with an envious track record
like Joe Torre. Nobody asks/questions Dave Trembley for his managerial decisions. The post-game conferences on MASN are a joke with reporters asking the same inane and innocuous questions, rarely questioning his strategy and NEVER asking the tough, follow-up question(s).

It appears that perhaps some of the reporters...including you have witnessed so much losing over the past number of years that you have become too accepting.

So here are some questions I'd like to see someone ask Dave Trembley......

Why did Mora continue to bat in the 5th slot for 75 games despite being a slump for the entire season (with horrible power numbers) AND, with his bat being so slow that over one-half of all balls he put in-play hit to the right side of the field, including the one walk-off homer he hit a few weeks back?

Why did Aubrey Huff continue to bat clean-up during his struggles over the past two months?

Why does Dave ask the fans for continued patience when he doesn't insist his team do the same? Seeing Melvin, Ty and others almost always swing at the first pitch, which has resulted in the opposing pitcher getting though an inning throwing only 5-7 pitches, does nothing to help our young pitchers get rest and perhaps their composure back while in the dugout.
{Didn't they notice the results against John Smoltz in Boston when they made him throw 33 first innings pitches.
It also just happened to be the only game of the six they beat the Red Sox.

Why do Felix Pie's at-bats almost always come at the expense of Nolan Reimhold as opposed to letting Nolan DH and sitting either Huff or Scott? Does he really think any of those other guys represent the Orioles' future? Also, he tries to justify it by saying that Nolan needed a day off. If that's true, then why not give Nick a day off too. They're about the same age.

Why did Dave say that it was important that a veteran catcher (Zaun) catch Tillman's first game, but then have Matt Weiters catch Matusz' first start Tuesday, and then further baffle his audience by saying that the difference was that "Tillman was acquired from Seattle while Matusz was drafted by the Orioles." [Somebody needs to explain this kind of convoluted thinking to me.]

Why does Dave appear to employ a
double standard with his players..calling
out Pie for his bone-headed plays, but watching veterans such as Huff get picked off base, run into outs or kill potential rallies by swinging at 3-1 pitches without taking him to task?

Aren't these questions fair game for the manager of a team mired in last place, and often beats itself.

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Pete's reply: Those are good questions, and many of them have been asked.

Thank you Harvey! That has to be the most intelligent, dead on post I've seen since I've been reading this blog.

BTW - One of the writers/reporters on MASN said that the reason they don't throw hard questions at Dave is that he won't answer them, so they have stpped trying. Kinda proves your point.

Also, I don't think Peter should lumped in with the masses at MASN. He has certainly done his fair share over the years of blasting Angelos & the Orioles.

Sports is about having fun. If you enjoy rooting for the team, go right ahead. If you enjoy complaining and being miserable, have at it. And when the team is finally good again, I'll save you some seats on the bandwagon. I think I'll continue to be cautiously optimistic until football season starts.

Hey, at least everybody here cares enough about the team to have an opinion. I don't know if you could've said that three years ago.

b,

Or is it Butch? Brad Lohse or Mike Hampton who each signed for $1Million for one year were two great examples is you were paying attention! I'm really tired of all the excuses, were a small market, were rebuilding ................. this is major league baseball, worse yet it is the AL East. This is NOT the International league, folks don't pay and Won't pay good money to see the locals get their @$$ handed to them night after night and for good reason. At the very least, they need to at least pretent to be making an effort to be competitive and they have not! Through our minor league alone we can not and WILL NOT compete. AM has done a respectable job in two big trades, however his acquisition (thats 4 syllables) of starting pitching has left this organization in a rough spot depending on all these inexperiecence by talented youngsters.

So...

If I say I'm going to end up in last place...and I end up in last place...it's a good thing?

I'll have to remember that during my next annual review.

Thank goodness the O's didn't go on a tear and mess up the plan.

And yes, I suspect (and hope) that by 2013 or 2014 or some such that they'll have a winning team.

Doesn't make 2009 smell any better, however.

Hmmm...personal attacks over hard facts. It does seem that we get dumber by the day. I remember when only Jack and brummie resorted to personal attacks because their arguments carried no weight. The Os must be in the annual summer swoon for this many people to become irrationally agitated. Meanwhile, I'm picking a sweep of the Jays.