Pete, O.K., so do we have a manager problem? Do we have a hitting coach problem? I ask because we're just like Boz Scaggs - we're having a hard time stringing meaningful hits together. When you're in that kind of slump at the bottom of your division, you've got a bigger problem than the on-field talent.

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Pete's reply: Right now, they've got an everything problem.

I sure hope we don't experience a collapse like is seasons past, but if our starters can't get through 5 innings it is likely to happen again. Our bullpen is really eating some innings and that could blow up and lead to our downfall over the last few months. You happen to have a number of innings pitched for bullpen compared to the rest of the league Pete? I imagine our bullpen must be among the league leaders in IP. Any relief help coming from the minors for September callups? And any news on Koji?

I give the guys credit for scoring some runs but its a shame our outburst came in such a wasted game. I'm disappointed with Melvin calling out DT, you aren't producing you are gonna ride the pine is it really that difficult of a concept. I don't care how many years you've been here and how great you may have once been it didn't stop the Soxs from dropping roid using Papi in the order and benching him early in the season either.

Pete, you ask.... "I mean, how much worse can it get?"

Sadly, the Orioles have answered that question year in and year out with a resounding YES.

They continually redefine the term "rock bottom" almost every year.

Today is just the latest example of it.

It's truly pathetic.

Yes doesn't exactly answer the question (although rhetorical) you posed.

Maybe "alot" would be a better answer.

Rock Bottom is 40 wins,122 loses.(see Detroit a few years ago) We are simply inept. A step below mediocre. Forever.
And not soon to change.
Was looking at stats today for heck of it.
Leadoff hitter with .345 ob%
Not good. And Roberts, Adam,Nick, Aubrey and Scott combined for around 480 strikeouts. Thats 18 games between 5 so called regular stars of strike outs. That is on them. Not Trembly/Kranitz.
Losers. Period. Nick now talks like he is proud of "not quitting" and hanging in there like it is a badge of honor. Well its not Nick!
Just win. Play to win. Turn up the intensity. Get after a midget 2nd baseman getting way overpaid to run out grounders.
Improve the body language.

Expect to win. You are all pathetic currently.
And see ya Berkens. Palmer has been saying it all along. This kid needs to be perfect with his poor stuff to win at this level. Perfect happens rarely to this bunch

here's some salt in your wounds: Jim Rice and some other joker chuckling post-game on NESN about how many sox fans come to 'Fenway on the Chesapeake.' Rice wouldn't let it drop ... I guess he thinks no one remembers that his sox teams routinely were looking up at the O's in the standings by season's end.

This series was a grim reminder of how far the O's are away from contending. Its now fairly obvious that we will be entering next season with essentially the same position players. Unless the big 3 turn out to be the equivalent of Maddox, Smoltz and Glavine or Zito, Mulder and Hudson in their primes, I guess any chance of contending will come in 2011, that is until we get to 2011 and it will be 2012, until we get to 2012................ well, u know what I mean

Schmuckerelli, TrembLAY aksed for a "big RH bat". Bay and Holliday are FA's--any chance the O's "buy the bats" there and move Reimold to 1b/DH or would they cost too much money.?

I miss having a winning baseball team to root for, damn it

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Pete's reply: And you're not alone. I don't know whether Andy will make that move this winter. I think it depends on what happens the next two months.

Pete,

Please don't ask how bad can it get? I sure hope AM is looking for an experienced proven manager (see Melvin or Showalter) a 3B, front end starter and a closer! This team will improve just with the youngsters getting better BUT to compete we need some free agent help!

I agree with Ted. I have been a Roberts fan for a long time, when he and Hairsten were two up and comers, and Roberts used to hustle and during the game, he jogged. He assumed he would be out by a mile and he could have made a close play but the pitcher beat him to the bag. Its disappointing but seriously, there is light at the end of the tunnnel.
Weiters is hitting almost .280, with not a lot of professional at bats under his belt and is playing heady baseball. Roberts, though effort lacking, look at his numbers compared to almost every other starting 2b...he needs an adjustment and now. He has been a loser for a long time and should realize by now he has a large part of this losing culture. Jones, is a stud and is better at this point than I thought he would be. Nick is Nick, quiet, productive, but just needs to champion change. Reimold, Andino, these guys are solid. This might sound dumb and I have said this before, but look at Pie. Getting better, but look at his attitude. Runs out everything, extra practice, a smile and runs hard. He was brought here for a chance but he wasnt playing but he didnt mope. He worked harder to be better. We need players like him (the attitude half) and the issues will slowly work out. Bergie, Hernandez, Tillman, now Matuz, im excited. It has been a long time, and Trembley might have to go. But attitude reflects leadership, and if he wants to save his job, and not have his premium young talents contaminated, he better start doing it.
Also, on a side note...Peter..I was hoping to hear a bit about Erbe and Spoone? what are the plans for them? Erbe was downright dominant before his injury, very young, and comes back off the DL and is at it again. And spoone was once one of our brightest prospects, how is his rehab going?

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Pete's reply: I'm trying not to poach too much on Dean Jones' territory. He writes the "On Deck" blog about the minor leaguers. Erbe is doing fine, but I'll have to get an update on Spoone and get back to you.

Halladay is not a FA until after the 2010 season.

It would be nice to see Berken go back to the Tides, and get some confidence back for a September call up or for the very least, spring training. He's getting lit up and I don't see this will help him out long term, regardless if he is a started or a reliever in the future.

I didn't think a 100 loss season was possible, but it certainly looks like that will be the case. The only two consistent starters on this team of late, have been Brad and Dave so know that Bergy is gone, the BP is going to jacked up like Big Papi Roids. Speaking of Juice Daddy, where is that idiot Curt? He had so much to say about how bad Manny was for doing steroids, as well as A Rod, but nothing to say about Papi Roids?

Pete, I'm not sur how much talking your are doing with coaches and scouts, with your injury and all, but is there any concern that JJ is giving up a lot of hits and home runs lately? This game was long over, but the biggest thing I feared about the Sherrill trade, was if JJ doesn't work out, we are beyond dead in the closer category. I hope JJ finishes strong, but no doubt, I am concerned.

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Pete's reply: I'm not there right now, but I'm sure they are trying to figure out why JJ has given up a handful of home runs when he usually doesn't.

TED,

FYI, The Tigers were in the world series just 3 short years after the 120 loss debacle. It should be noted that their ownership was committed to winning and didnt have a GM who was allergic to free agency and terrified to take a chances

I couldn't watch. Too painful, for the 12th year in a row. MASN is out of business. It's now the MASOCHIST network. And for masochists who like insult with their injury, when Boston is in town, Camden Yards is the largest occupied territory west of Baghdad. The Curse of Angeloser.

These cursed clowns are perpetually stuck in a "groundhog day" of suck (same humiliating garbage every year). Time to tune these losers out and focus full time on the only team that matters in the only sport that matters...GO RAVENS!

Anyone else notice (again) that Buck Martinez was bringing up how hard Pedroia played and subtley referencing Roberts when he said it?

All you have to do is look at Pedroia play and Roberts play to see the MASSIVE difference in effort and hustle. Not only down the line on ground balls but in the field. Pedroia hustles to EVERY ball and makes crisp throws to first. Roberts? He makes his way to balls and lobs them to first to get most guys who 1 or 2 steps.

It's so obvious that I don't know how anyone would debate that Pedroia plays MUCH harder and with much more vigor than Roberts.

Trembley will be gone in a few weeks.

O's fans: To those of you who think lousy scratch hitters who run out their groundouts are going to build the O's back in to a winning club - please get a grip. Do you honestly think the Yankmee dyanasty teams saw Pinellia, Munson, and Jackson "running out" their grounders. Did Frank Robinson and Boog Powell run out their grounders? Heck no - because it's immaterial on a team with so little talent and power. You need power hitters and pitchers who can throw a consistent seven to eight innings, and the O's don't have them. "Athletic" finesse fielders with lousy OBP, no power, and a smile on their face when they hustle down the line on a weak ground out are not going to get it done.

Does the cash for clunkers program apply to MLB teams??

It's refreshing to see all the posts here acknowledging that this team stinks. It was only a couple of weeks ago that many posts were seeing the O's through rose colored glasses, including, you Peter Schmuck. If the players are starting to mail in, can you blame them? While not professional, if management above you doesn't give a @#$%, why should the workers. Did you see DT again arguing a couple of questionable calls? What a farce...did PA call him tell him to go out and "pretend" to argue so that the fans will think I care. This team (Jones, Markakis, Reimold, even Roberts and Huff would perform better with a commited owner who hires a manage who tells it like it is. AF is not necessarily the answer. But new ownership is.

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Pete's reply: You know, it's got to be frustrating to watch the O's lose to the Red Sox, but if you didn't know the Red Sox were a better team than the Orioles until yesterday, you've got more than my rose-colored glasses to worry about. The bullpen got hammered, but the Orioles didn't mail it in. They staged a big comeback early and had one of their better offensive days of the year. Zaun got thrown out. Trembley was on the field arguing several times. They stunk it up, but they didn't mail it in. I'm constantly surprised that savvy fans will look at a game like the other day when Josh Beckett stuck it to them and say they weren't trying. Jeez. Everybody looks like that when Josh Beckett pitches well.

Nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, saaaaaay, good bye

Part Deux Deux Deux Deux

The Grim Reaper better come for Dave and Juan and T-bone and Kranitz soon!

Could the big right handed bat be Tejada and have him switch to third?

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Pete's reply: No.

I'm very disappointed to read Mora's comments, if it weren't for the Orioles he wouldn't the fat contract he has.I'm sure he's frustrated as well as to how his season is going and to top that he may sitting on the bench watching this aug-sept collapse instead of playing in it. He can only hope he draws his release and hooks on with a contender as a role player or someone who comes off the bench. If memory serves me correctly he did this before when he first arrived here. i'm constantly battling a friend by taking up for these guys but its getting tougher!

Nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, saaaaaay, good bye

Part Deux Deux Deux Deux

The Grim Reaper better come for Dave and Juan and T-bone and Kranitz soon!

Well in the O’s case losing may just help. We are more than likely going to secure the 2nd or 3rd draft pick and maybe just maybe management will wake up and realize the turtle is not the guy we need to manage a major league ballclub. In addition Angelos may realize that you have to spend money on FAs.

I'm very disappointed to read Mora's comments, if it weren't for the Orioles he wouldn't the fat contract he has.I'm sure he's frustrated as well as to how his season is going and to top that he may sitting on the bench watching this aug-sept collapse instead of playing in it. He can only hope he draws his release and hooks on with a contender as a role player or someone who comes off the bench. If memory serves me correctly he did this before when he first arrived here. i'm constantly battling a friend by taking up for these guys but its getting tougher!

Pete,
With the way the Orioles are tanking faster then the Oakland Raiders, there is a good chance we will have the second overall pick in next year's draft.

With the way the negotiations are going with the Nats and Strassburg, there is a good chance he ends up back in the draft. If the Nats get the first pick, they have to ask his permission to draft him again (fat chance). I know MacPhail would pounce on that quicker then Sidney Ponson at a Golden Corral.

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately indications are the economy will bottom before the O's. Thank god the economy doesn't take 12 years to turn. At least we better pray it doesn't

I know MacPhail would pounce on that quicker then Sidney Ponson at a Golden Corral.

Hilarious Ken!

Mike N says:

O's fans: To those of you who think lousy scratch hitters who run out their groundouts are going to build the O's back in to a winning club - please get a grip. Do you honestly think the Yankmee dyanasty teams saw Pinellia, Munson, and Jackson "running out" their grounders. Did Frank Robinson and Boog Powell run out their grounders? Heck no - because it's immaterial on a team with so little talent and power. You need power hitters and pitchers who can throw a consistent seven to eight innings, and the O's don't have them. "Athletic" finesse fielders with lousy OBP, no power, and a smile on their face when they hustle down the line on a weak ground out are not going to get it done.

I find it amusing you just toss aside the fact that the person compared to Roberts and his lackadasical play is the reigning AL MVP.

Look, nobody with an ounce of sense believes hustling and showing heart is gonna magically transform this team into a winner.

But to just toss it aside as meaningless is way too far on the other side of the spectrum.

Martinez nailed it today with his comments about Pedroia and his fire to not let a pitcher get him out.

You can see it and it's a part of why he's the reigning MVP.

Regarding the two recent trades the Orioles made, I think picking up Cla Meredith was a good move. He's a decent, if not unspectacular, addition.

However, I am starting to think giving Sherrill away for basically nothing in return (8th and 15th rated minor leaguers in the Dodgers farm system for one of the better closers in the game) was a colossal disaster. This nightmare of a trade will haunt the Orioles for several years to come.

We now have to go back to the drawing board to find a new closer. Jim Johnson is NOT closer material. How stupid can you get!

Baltimore Today 2009 44 60 .423 18.5 28-26 16-34 482 553 -71 Lost 3 3-7

Baltimore Today 2008 54 56 .491 11.5 29-23 25-33 534 547 -13 Won 2

LOL! This is a regression plan! But ahhh who cares about things like accountability and urgency when your playing with fan money?!

Pete- as I see it we have three choices to survive the summer:
1- break out the brown paper bags. At least we won't have to be embarrassed by this bunch. I would even wear mine at home while i watch the game so as to avoid trash talk from the resident rug rats. Don't forget to poke eye holes.

2- start rooting for other teams. Buy two or three colored T shirts- maybe one blue and another red- that should cover most teams. Learn several generic chants such as " let's go guys" or spell out "baseball". Join the Red Sox fans when they chant " Orioles suck". And never, ever shout "O" during the Star Spangled Banner ( that of course would give you away).

3- And this one I think will work the best. Declare the current O's as the organization's AA team. Start playing in that league. Since a lot of our players recently did well there, maybe we could be competitive. Nah- Wiggy and Huff will still hit into DPs and Roberts and Kakes would still strike out when runners are in scoring position! OK-maybe single A. They could then rent out OPACY to show live videos of Ravens games to overflow crowds. Maybe even have high school baseball games there too.

Live Blog: Red Sox at Oriolesby Neil Keefe on Aug 2, 2009 5:25:31 PM

Final, Red Sox 18-10: Dave Trembley is really out on the field to argue whether or not the last out was a fair ball. Really Dave? Maybe if you didn't start Berken or had a shorter leash with Albers, you wouldn't be losing by eight runs when your team scores 10. What an awful game, but thanks to everyone who read the live blog.

I think anytime you make a commitment to younger players, you're going to experience growing pains. That's what we're seeing now. The Orioles braintrust is trying out various players and combinations from the minor league system. So far we see that Bergesen has the potential to be a great pitcher. Berken on the other hand looks like a AAA pitcher. However, I sense the Orioles brass are becoming worried and desperate. I think they are sensing this rebuilding project hinges on some of the star pitchers we have in the minors like Matusz, Tillman, etc. How well these pitchers fare in the next few years will probably say everything you need to know about whether this rebuilding project will succeed or not. So although it looks very bleak right now, remember the Cowboys were 1-15 in Jimmie Johnson's first year before they won Super Bowls.

Dave Trembley needs to be fired immediately. This season is becoming more and more of a bad joke that just needs to end. Orioles just admit he was a bad hire and just get a real manager to take control and get ready for next season so this BS wont be as bad this time next season.

Pete, I want to go to Brian's defense against those (i.e., Ted, chris and Mark) who've been bashing him here. Folks, he's leading the American League in doubles (37). second in runs (78) and tied for eighth in stolen bases (20), so get off of his back.

Is Pedroia playing with more pep? Maybe, but then who wouldn't be given the circumstances? The Red Sox are vying once again for a playoff spot, while the Orioles are playing not to embarass themselves.

It's much harder to be on playing with much intensity and focus when your team's being used left and right as a doormat on a muddy day and your pitchers aren't even giving you a chance to get back in the game.

Which isn't to say B'Rob's dogging it, not by a long shot, but just to put things in perspective. Being smack in the middle of a pennant race in August should put a little spring in any player's step (if not he's in the wrong profession).

By the way, Brian bashers, all Roberts did today was go 3-4 with a double, a run, an rbi and a walk, which makes your attacks on him all the more ludicrous.

Oh, I guess you could shoot him down for not going 4-4 with a grand slam. Better yet, find yourselves another whipping boy, because Brian doesn't deserve this in any way, shape or form.

TED, Cash for clunkers. Good one! LOL

We should expect some improvement next year, but I think 2011 and 2012 will be the key years to determine whether McPhail's ambitious plan succeeded or failed. We're also going to have to be aggressive in the free agent market, adding a starting pitcher and a third baseman.

Regarding our current third baseman...a player with 3 homers and 27 RBI's complaining about respect? Now that is downright comical. (Yes, Mora, you need to go).

The biggest mistake the O's made this past offseason was not acquiring a veteran starter with some ability and Koji doesn't count, he belongs in the pen. Having Guthrie at the top of the rotation is a joke. They should've went harder after Burnett...that's right overspend if you have to, the Yankees do it constantly so I think the O's can do that once in a while. You can't just put 4-5 young pitchers in a rotation and have them compete against the AL East, it doesn't work that way. Same goes for next year, you can't have Bergesen, Tillman, Matusz, Guthrie and Hernandez in a rotation, you need an anchor. Go out and get one so the youngsters don't feel they have to carry the load by themselves. And oh yeah, a major league third baseman would be nice too.

PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING !! Nothing will change until we get a staff that can keep us in games. And the Bullpen !! Ugh !

To be fair I think if Orioles can just get 65 - 72 wins next season I think it would be a major improvement and if we regress further than our final mark this season Andy needs to be put on the immediate hotseat.

Did anyone besides me see the look on Meredith's face in the eighth inning when Huff made no effort to get in front of that ground ball that was hit almost directly to him? Nice effort Mr. Huff. You are a pinhead because no matter what the score you must give a professional effort on every play and you didn't. That play was ruled a double by the way but ask Buck Martinez what he thought about it. Nothing like showing your as- in front of a big crowd.

Has anyone seen Peter Angelos at any of the games this year? If you have a picture or a newspaper report of an Angelos siting I will pay you $1,000.

Oh buy the way if you haven't already, see where he ranks among baseball owners. Dead last.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/05/08/mlb.owners/index.html?eref=T1

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Pete's reply: Yes, I have. He's been there more than you think.

I hate to say I told you so. Wait, I love to say it!

Mora you shown to care about the area. But you don't seem to understand the team concept. I know you are a free agent after the year. But complaining never helps anyone. You are destined to be a utility guy now.

Be thankful for a job. A lot of people wish they had a job.

Mora you are not Cal Ripken. You will never be Cal. Stop thinking of yourself like you were an all star every year.

So Pete what do you think? Is it time to cut Mora when Matusz comes up?

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Pete's reply: No, probably not. You're paying him and he's been a good soldier for a long time. But he needs to step up and take some responsibility for his performance.

Well. looks like things are already getting uglier. What can be worse than getting pummelled at home in front of 35, 000 RedSox fans? I can't imagine how demoralizing to must be for Orioles players to hear more cheering from the opposition for about 20 games/year when the Yanks and RedSox are in town and to realize that this is going to be the case for most of their careers. I mean, seriously, do we really think the Orioles are going to become competitive in the next 3 years when we have more holes than ever and players like Mora are already whinning to the media and it's only Aug?
Teams will be circling the Orioles pitching like vultures especially when they know that we can usually be counted on to fold like cheap tents from August until the rest of the season mercifully ends. But don't forget-MacPhail has a 'PLAN"!!!! We're just not sure what it is yet!

There are two separate emotions can describe Oriole fans or former supporters. The disdain, and apathty for the team has reached new levels. Something that every year, Oriole fans think is a new low.

In Baltimore the consumer has lost complete confidence in the product Angelos is selling. That is a recipe for disaster if you’re the owner of a professional sports franchise in terms of selling tickets.

Last night it was a veteran pitcher who shut down young hitters. Today it was a young pitcher looking that part against savvy hitters. The veteran relievers did not do there job either. There will be growing pains when you have 5 rookie pitchers. And number 6 about to start. Berken might be better out of the bullpen for the rest of the season. That would allow him to still work against ML hitters and develop confidence on a lighter scale then starting a game.
As for Mora: He has been a good ballplayer for most of his time here, but he has not been producing when he plays. Time for a trade or release.

Brian sold out.
He took the cash to stay with a perennial loser.
Watch him before, during and try to find him after the games.
Gone.
Loves to cavort with the other team.
Really bad body language
Look at his strikeouts and lousy on base % for lead-off guy.
Below ave from right side.
Average 2nd baseman with glove

Does not hustle grounders.
Not a leader.

Mr double man who fails to hit in the clutch or lay down a bunt for the team saying "its not my game"

Good husband, son I hope and great to area kids suffering.

But that stuff does not equal a winning attitude.

Sorry to say this but true, and yes hustle does matter to this old school fan.

The Orioles have become the LA Clippers of baseball.

As long as Angelos is at the helm, the O's will be losers. It's a shame he's not young and excited about winning like John Henry with the Red Sox. Instead, he could be the cratchity, poster grump for the next remaking of Scrooge. He won't allow McPhail to sign a decent power bat or a true #1 pitcher, instead going for sub .500 minor league manager and an occasional pitcher at the end of his career. We have some decent kids coming up; but their mindset will be "Why am I here and when can I leave?" by the time they arrive. It's so frustratiing for anyone who really loves O's baseball as we recall it.

Gueman,
How dare you compare the Baltimore Orioles to the Los Angeles Clippers!! The Clippers have a much stronger team coming this season with Blake Griffin, a healthy Baron Davis and Marcus Camby. There days of losing might just be over!

Dear lord, what a !@#$show.

Break out the paper bags folks, and prepare yourself for a 100 loss season.

I can't believe things have gone this badly this year.

When Dave Trembley slowly came out on the field to argue whether that was a fair ball today I felt really embarrassed like in that comedy show curb your enthusiasm when Larry David does some over the top shenanigans. What a bunch of dopes the O’s were for hiring this guy..

Groundskeeper,

It is not even worth donning a paperbag at an O’s game just don’t show and take that garbage MASN off your cable package. Its total junk just Bad baseball and propaganda. Fans need to hold this POS team accountable and not give them anything until they make a real effort to get better.

Nobody should compare the Orioles to the raiders. Al Davis wasn’t always crazy he was a winner at one time. PA has been and will always be a loser when it comes to baseball!!!

Ted, Quit dumping on B-Rob, man. Go root for the Nationals or something, but quit trashing one of the core players of this team.

You say he doesn't hustle, but many of his doubles are hustle doubles. He's hitting .285, and with a solid week he could be up around .300 again. Yeah, his OBP could be a little better, but it's right around where Ellsbury's is and I don't see anyone complaining about the Red Sox' leadoff man.

Let's see, what else? Below average from right side?Nope, Brian's actually better as a righty this season than as a lefty, .289 to .276. Sure he's done more from the left side in terms of overall stats, but that's only because he's had around 140 more at bats from that side of the plate. No one can reasonably call hitting .286 below average; that's just ridiculous.

Average second baseman. Well, I think he's better than that, but for the sake of argument, average isn't bad.

Whether he bunts or how often he does so is the least of our worries. If the team wants him to do it more, we'd be seeing it. Period.

Doesn't hit in the clutch? You're kidding, right? There are plenty of times he's come through in the clutch this year; in fact, he's hitting .302 with runners in scoring position this year.

Cavorting with players on the other team. I don't exactly know what that means, but I do know this is 2009, not 1949, and for better or worse lots of players "fraternize" with opposing players without letting it affect their game and B-Rob happens to be one.

Doesn't make him a bad guy or less motivated to win. The claim that he's not a team player isn't true. Whether he's a leader or not is open to debate. He's not a rah-rah type guy, but he leads when he's on the field.

Ted, as I wrote earlier, find yourself another whipping boy, man, because Brian Roberts isn't what's wrong with this team. Not remotely.

There's no shame in sending Berken down. It's not like he was some ultra-prized prospect going into the year, he was just a free little bonus.

Ken, stop confusing Ted with the facts. Roberts didn't hustle out a grounder to the 2nd baseman three months ago and Ted is never going to forget it.

actually the future is very bright.....
see what Trembley gets for sticking with Mora wat too long in the 5th hole.... so sick of the disrespect and pouting and glad he just hastened his departure....
anyone remember him calling out Perlozza? for not "telling" him he would be sitting out a game..
There is a constant on the field for the last many years...his initials are MM and it's not the candy.....
I don't like many of Trembleys moves at all, but this is total bush league stuff and we should release him pronto....

good post Ken....

you may have to post it about 8 more times before the nonsense stops about Roberts

My local high school has some sports teams that remind me of the O's. The school never makes winning in these sports a priority, and the teams show it. The teams are usually out coached and out played by better competitors. They know they will be perennial losers and are pretty much resigned to it. Once in a while, another team in the conference will have an off year, and they'll battle for the basement. The kids who play, and their parents who support them, do so primarily because they like the sport and have no easy alternatives because they live in the town. The better players move onto club teams once the season ends. I can accept this from a high school program. These kids are not going to make a living playing one of these sports. Every once in a while, the parents will gripe and wonder if the school ever gets tired of the yearly embarrassment.

It's pretty pathetic when this mostly describes a supposedly professional sports team with a bunch of guys who do make a living, many of them making millions, in a sport. Now that the red sox are out of town, the Ravens will be drawing crowds to their summer camp that match what the O's draw manage in a jewel of a stadium. when will the Orioles get sick and tired of the yearly embarrassments? They sure do seem to take it in stride.

P.S. The parents ultimately understand that resources are limited and the school just isn't going to invest in the sport of choice, unless there is an administrative change. What are the O's excuses? Most people don't like to play the clown. When will they tire of just being flat out inept?

Who was the last All Star pitcher for the Orioles? I rest my case.

At least some of the young hitters have been looking good. ie: Jones, Riemold, Nick, still waiting to see Weiters power.

Ive had it... i am switching to the WNBA... those guys play with heart!

It wouldn't be as bad if they didn't show so much promise.

Get as many of the young guys up for a cup of coffee this year as possible

I've read with interest where various fans have managed to take shots at King Peter Angelos during the latest slump. For years, many felt that he should stay away and quit interferring and let the 'baseball' people run things. When he finally does, he still gets crticized so he can't win...
He still writes the cheques and is far from cheap as the recent contracts to Markakis and Roberts were over 100 total, he overpaid for the likes of Huff, Mora and countless others. Personally,I don't feel that the current state of the O's isn't Angelos' fault.
We can point the blame at the players and to lesser extent Trembley and even MacPhail.

You guys bowing down to Brian Roberts and defending his lack of hustle and fire is hilarious.

Take a look at his numbers since May 1st. It's terrible for a supposed top of the line 2nd baseman.

Clutch? Look at his average with 2 outs and RISP. He's 4-42 for a .095 avgerage.

He batted .256 in May and .235 in June.

His fielding is BARELY aveage and things like last night are a prime example of how he gets away with stuff with you guys.

1 out, Ortiz hits what should be a inning ending DP. Instead, Roberts bobbles the ball and Ortiz is safe at 1st. Next batter gets a hit and the runner on 3rd trots home.

That's not an error on Roberts but all you have to do is watch the game to see what is really going on.

Is he the main problem on this team? Certainly not but his play this year certainly hasn't been up to par. It just hasn't.

I expect a hell of alot more from a guy who just got a nice 40+ million dollar extension.

Ok, let's see. The 1st half of the season was expected to be difficult, but the expectations were that the team would show increasing improvement after the AS Break. Hmmm. It honestly appears that nothing has changed from past years. These guys have already gotten accustomed, and seem to be resigned to losing. I notice the facial expressions and mannerisms in the batters box - no intensity whatsoever; almost an appearance of "Just let's get this over with". Sure, Jones is a notable exception, as are Reimond, and to a lesser degree, Markakis. Pitchers getting too "nibbly" and either grooving fat pitches, or missing the plate entirely batter after batter. The raw talent is certainly there - at least to a much greater degree than the production indicates - but until the overall seemingly pervasive "losing attitude" is extinguished, I see little chance of a change in direction. Not to mention the embarassment to the city overall that the ballpark is overrun by obnoxious Boston fans.

Pete,

While I mentioned Melvin and Showalter as possible replacements for DT, I would hope that whoever gets the job gets to pick his assistant coaches! I believe Bill Parcells said if best, "if your expecting me to cook you a fantastic meal, at least you can let shop for the groceries" with regard to picking his staff!

Pete,

Just for the sake of discussion, you would have to say we are better off today than we were in April. Continuing to steal from American Politics, America voted for Change and Reform for our President and this fan base wants the same from this team.

2009 is NOT a season to be measuring Wins and losses. 2009 is a season to judge how much more AM needs to do to make us competitive in AL East.

What we know, we have a catcher, 2B, SS, 3-OFs and a DH. We have Bergesen, Hernandez, Guthrie for sure and were still deciding on TIllman and soon to Matusz. In the pen we need more help but have Johnson (in set up), Hendrickson is adequate as a long lefty or specialist and CLay the underarmer mixes things up.

That said, based on what the last two young starters do the rest of the way says a lot to Andy on what he needs to get this winter. At 1B and 3B we need to improve and this years free agents, I would guess Huff stays put for a year. 3B, Melvin must GO! But there isn't a lot to choose from and Wigginton isn't an everyday guy but a great spare part on a good team! Pie should get a fair look as the 4th outfielder, but needs to hit the breaking ball better.

Finally, while the record won't show it, we are much better today than we were in April and this group will only get better! As they say, patience is a virtue!

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Pete's reply: I understand that people are frustrated. That always bubbles up when the Red Sox come in here with their fans and win, but there's no question that this is a totally different situation than in past years. The people who are only looking at the W-L record need to take a nap until next year.

The O's are like that girl in high school.You'd ask her out and everytime, she'd give you an excuse that gave you hope. Prospects are not players. And to hear the announcers, you'd believe the O's are a contender. Adam Jones was an all star cause every team had to have one. The Bedard trade was not good until their team record proves otherwise. As far as Trembley, players "not giving up" and praising them just because they're young is not the attitude of a club that expects to compete. I seriously doubt Mora would be mouthing off if Jimmy Leyland were the manager. Bury Trembley in the organization somewhere and find a no excuses type manager.

How many managers do they need to fire????? How about firing Roberts, Mora and all the other veterans making big money but not producing? With the guys on our team, we should not be as bad as we are, even with the bad pitching. That's when the offense needs to step up and produce some runs. Mora is sucking this year, and then he has the nerve to say DT is disrespecting him by benching him cause he can't hit?!?!?! What nerve! I am so sick of all these prima donnas. Baseball is filled with nothing but a bunch of diva whiny babies! How they have ruined the sport! What a shame and shame on them. Bring up the kids from the minors. At least they work hard and try because they want to be here, at least til they all become jaded once their big payday arrives.

Keith Rowe -
Patience might be a virtue, but so is commitment, resilience, acceptance and excellence. The Orioles organization lacks all of those.

How many games do you think LaRussa or Cox would win with this young squad of players? The young talent needs some veteran star players around that will carry them through tough times, and help them grow. The club did not see value in that this year. Not too many stars want to go to a franchise that will not compete, like Lowe, AJ and Tex but somehow their has got to be a way to get someone that can stop a bad streak like this. They are lining up to have a good 2-5 in the rotation for next year, still need a closer. A first baseman and third baseman. If Koji can come back, make him a reliever, then you have Bergesen, Hernandez, Guthrie, Tillman and Matusz to compete for those spots. The record of this year should not matter,it is what they do to improve for next season that counts.

Also the comments about Roberts and the strikeouts by guys in our lineup are uncalled for and really that argument does not carry weight, the one thing the Orioles have done really well with this year is not striking out. Roberts is doing a good job at lead off, really who could replace him, he currently is third in runs scored. Roberts has always done good things in this community and it is pathetic that some of you do not have facts stated. The Orioles are in the top half in runs scored, even with the fact that Mora, Huff and Scott have slumped in the last 6 weeks or so. The bottom line is we give up more than we score by a large percentage, it is about the pitching and has been for several years.
We are next to last in team ERA, that is a fact, not fiction. You score ten runs in a game you should win, not lose by eight runs.

Really this is hard to take, but it should be expected. The Yankees and Redsox are expected to win, losing will not be tolerated for teams that throw around as much money as they do. Next year, I hope that they can address the four big holes they have, if not the continuation of the rebuilding process is going to be a tough sale to the Baltimore faithful.

From 1954 to 2004, The O's and Red Sox had the same cumulative winning percentage (.523)

It is only in the last 5 years that the Sux have pulled ahead. That is very discouraging. It is as if Earl Weaver managed in a different city. At least having Palmer on the mike, and Boog in the BBQ is a reminder.

I honestly never thought this franchise would ever have a cumulative losing record. No wonder Orioles from yesteryear want to distance themselves from this sorry franchise.

Even if this team gets better, what about the Yanks, Sox, and Rays? Are they just going to go away? What scenario would have to happen for any of those 3 to finish below .500? All their great players get mysteriously injured? They get bored from winning all the time that they retire? Don't see Boston or NY going bankrupt anytime soon...

Oh and Jim Rice can take that Fenway on The Chesapeake comment and stick it where the sun don't shine. Boston: make like the Yanks, build a bigger stadium, and stay out of our yard!

can't wait for a time when boston and ny fans pay for the trip, tickets, and hotel rooms to watch the O's beat them.

right now, their fans come down to watch their team get easy victories. if they weren't guaranteed wins every time, maybe they would stay home, and the front office could take actual O's fan's money.

right now we're a weekend retreat for all the fake looking worn in red sox hat wearing, cookie cutter, sense of entitlement, boston fans who think they're better than us -- or worse think that they are at their 'second' home.

i don't like this.

These guys just plain and simple STINK.

Hey Pete,

Any word on whether we're looking at Buck Showalter or Bobby V at this point? As much as I like Dave Trembley, I would find it unlikely he gets his option picked up.

What do you think?

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Pete's reply: I think it's unlikely, too, unless there's some dramatic upturn in the next two months, and nobody is predicting that. I think things will improve some from here -- at least from a standpoint of organizational progress -- but don't know if it would be enough to save Dave. Don't have any idea who Andy would favor if he made a change.

when will MLB institute a salary cap?!

football is not more fun to watch because it's a better sport.

ok, maybe it is a little.

Thank you Peter Anglos for turning my favorite team into a giant ponzi scheme.

I think the Orioles organization has made Melvin Mora totally bats***. Yes the O’s made him rich but they also wasted all the baseball talent he had left and now he’s got nothing to show for it except a ton of money. Mora realizes this and is going mad.

Pete,

What are the chances the O's put Koji in the closers role either this or next season? Believe he closed in Japan and has been successful this season through the 5th inning. Would he be able to pitch regularly enough to fill the closers role or would he be more of a long man?

As far as 2010 free agents I don't see that huge bat being available unless we go for an outfielder and either attempt to move them or someone else to first. At third I wouldn't mind the O's going after someone like Blalock or Figgins for 3 years, or maybe Crede for 1 or 2. As far as SP I'd hope we would look into signing atleast one guy. Kelvim Escobar, or John Lackey would be nice. We'd probably have to overpay to get them though and they have had injury problems. I saw Prior was on the list of potential free agents, how sad is it he hasn't pitched in the majors since 06'. Few other SP's to consider Brad Penny, Kevin Millwood (maybe, Texas may have a club option on him), Jarrod Washburn, Tim Hudson, and Randy Wolf.

Actually we will probably have to overpay to get any of them but we definitely will need another veteran arm next season other than Guthrie and there are some pretty decent candidates although I know AM doesn't like to pay for arms I hope he will look into getting atleast one prior to next season.

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think it's possible Koji will get a look in the closer role next spring.

What's frustrating is watching young guys develop within a franchise that keeps getting worse. For all the good with young players, improved farm system, and nicer spring training home, we keep losing games and playing worse.

It's all about leadership, or lack thereof. Who's going to lead the O's out of this?

Why do we keep starting Berken? He needs to be in minors to develop.

TerryP,

Robert and Markakis were O's prospects that earned their money with their play on the field. If Angelos does not sign them, he would look like a complete moron. He had to sign these guys.

Angelos is pretty much involved with the O's. It showed when he did not want to pay Texeira what he is really worth. Something the Yankees had the pleasure of doing. Poor business decision in my opinion. It would have been a move that would have paid dividends immediately. Hometown boy playing for hit hometown team. The fans would have loved it and would have come out to every game.

The fact that Angelos has not been to any home games in recent memory, doesn't mean he is not "hands-on". It means he is not a fan, that's all. The Yankees and Redsox owners are dedicated fans first and foremost.

Matt,

Please for the love of God don’t give AM any ideas about signing Mark Prior... he will do it!! He loves broken down old Cubs pitchers

See Rich Hill

Slugger,
As Pete would say
Yes Peter Angelos owns the team.
Hahaha Yeah at first everyone on here were trying to say PA took a step back and was letting AM do his thing which is obviously not true at all.

Yea that's funny hahaha,

OK. Let's analyze the Texeira business. According to Tony Massarotti of the Globe, in 2007 Texeira rejected an offer from Texas for 7 years 144 million dollars.

In 2009 Andy MacPhail goes to Angelos and says: We have to go after Texeira and our offer has to be serious. They know how much Texas had offered in 2007 and that Tex had rejected. What does Angelos do? He offers 6 million more dollars than Texas had offered 2 years prior for a total of 7 year 150 million dollar contract. Did he really think that was going to get it done? Did he really want to get the deal done, or did he just want to look like he was trying and put it all on Tex?

Doesn't this fall inline with Angelos' past history of killing free agent and trade deals so he would not have to pay?

Sources:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2008/11/teixeiras_a_money_player.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3775042

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Pete's reply: Obviously, you weren't paying attention through the actual negotiations. Teixeira met with the Orioles -- who at the time had the same offer on the table as everybody else -- and said (paraphrase) "Please don't make another offer, because I'm not signing here and I don't want to use my hometown team as a leverage chip." And that was that.

Angelos could offered Texeira $250 million dollars to sign with O's , and Texeira STILL WONT sign with O's .
That seven year $ 150 million offer was just O's opening bid , by no means their BEST/FINAL offer . According to what MacPhail said , Texeira didnt call back with counter offer or even negotiate . The naysayers are trying to make it look like the O's were pretending to pursue Texeira . Nothing could be farther from the truth . Texeira was simply taking advantage of O's/Nat's offers to drive up Yankee's/Red Sox's prices . Texiera was not interested in O's , Angelos or not .

Allan,

Could you blame him? He wanted to play for a real MLB team and possibly win a championship. Not get booed in his own park and be a multiyear loser.

See Melvin Mora

Pete—Watching and listening to Buck Showalter on Baseball Tonight over the past year has led me to believe that he is the next guy for the Orioles. Simply put, Buck is a no nonsense believer of playing the game the right way and a guy who will follow through and see that it is done.

Buck is a character. Maybe because of that, some will feel that he won’t be hired by the Birds. I say, bring him in. We need his leadership, that drive to win—every night.

When I first saw Buck many years ago I made the Elroy connection with the Jetsons. That has caught on in a fun, pop cultural way. I don’t think we need to market an alternative cap with a propeller on it, but hey…we are talking about a fun future with the Orioles.

I really like the idea of Buck as the next manager of the Baltimore Orioles.

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I'm not that far down the road yet. I think Bob Melvin would be a good candidate, too, but give Dave a chance to salvage the next two months before everybody gives up on him.

You know with all the bad talk about Mora today lets remember he’s played pro ball for 10 years and DT hasn’t. DT is in way over his head and management should have been able to handle this situation before it got out of hand. The orioles organization can make an ordeal out of anything.

Alllan,

If Angelos wanted Tex here, the offer should have been more serious. Everyone in baseball knew that he wanted 8 years at 22+ millions per year. Angelos offer came at 7 years at 18 million per year.

One of the reasons Teixeira did not come to the O's is that he did not believe Angelos was committed to winning.

Here is a quote from Tex after he signed with the Yankees:

"I've always wanted to be with an organization that doesn't shy away from the big-money players, the free agents and doing whatever it takes to win"

If he thought Angelos didn't shy away from big-money players, he would be here. History has shown that after the Albert Belle signing, Angelos has been gun-shy

Source:

NY Post, http://www.nypost.com/seven/01062009/sports/yankees/teixeira_says_signing_sabathia_and_burne_147787.htm

Mark, You're sounding like one of Roch's trolls over at MASN. If you don't like Brian Roberts that's your business, but quit ranting. I don't care what you want to dredge up to slam him; I've already pointed out that he's hitting .305 with RISP for the season, and not just for whatever month you can find to make him look bad.

The only reasonable way to evaluate a player is for the whole season and not part of season. And B-Rob's having a decent season. You can't accept that, so you start trying to run him down by picking his year apart until you can find something to trash. That's no way to gauge a player.

While he's by no means a Gold Glove second baseman, he's not one of the worst in the league, either. You cite one atypical play out of hundreds of chances, but it doesn't work that way. Again, you need to look at the entire body of work. He's not the only player to bobble a ball, you know. And you don't bother to mention the above average plays he makes,whuch also need to be factored into any evaluating .

Of course, the one stat you conveniently choose to ignore, Mark--indeed, the one stat that you must ignore if you want to bash Brian-- are his 77 runs scored, which is the second best in the American League.

When it gets right down to it, there is no more meaningful statistical category for a leadoff hitter than the number of runs he scores. That stat more or less defines the role and that makes B-Rob well worth what he's being paid.

As I said to Ted, if you don't like the direction the Orioles are going by signing Brian Roberts to an extension, there's not anything you can do about it. He's not going anywhere. So get over it or go find another team to root for (and dump on), like the Nationals.

The last thing real O's fans want to see is someone dumping on their players without rhyme or reason. It's tough enough to watch the team struggle, but then to read comments from "fans" who point blame in the wrong place only makes things worse.

Ken Francis--I support your defense of Brian Roberts' offensive contributions this season. I was one of the commentators who admitted to being jarred by seeing Brain look out of it in some games this season. I've come to believe that two physical things came into play. Roberts got hurt diving for a ball in the World Baseball Classic. He came back to spring training and was given a good bit of time off to heal. Then, Brian suffered from the respiratory infection.

To be accurate, though, when you refer to Brian making "the above average plays" this season, I don't know which plays you have in mind. I've watched every game this season and what has caught my attention is that Brian's range has diminished and his arm looks weak. I have yet to see him dive and come up with a ball this season. On plays to his right, he has no arm strength to throw runners out.

Brian is a doubles machine. When he is clicking, so goes the Oriole offense. When he is patient at the plate and drives an outside corner pitch to left, he helps a lot. What I have noticed this season is he is not getting around on too many fastballs. He has been late.

You are correct in asserting that Brian Roberts should not be the focus of the Orioles' woes. It is all about the pitching.

And with you, I am hopeful that a rotation of Bergesen, Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, and Hernandez will be the second coming of the Baby Birds. Perhaps Guthrie can find a way out of his stick ball throwing funk, and Patton will be able to contribute on the mound at Camden Yards.

And to manage, let's make Buck Showalter an Oriole.

I am not thrilled with the way Brian has played this season, but no way is he just a decent player. He is a very good player that isn't having one of his best years. The hustle or lack thereof and not stealing bases like he should, is what concerns me.

We've got to get over the Tex saga. P.A. has done some real bad things, no doubt, but Tex didn't want to be here and if he did come here, how many more wins do you think the O's would have? I can't imagine more than 6 to 8 wins.

Fenway South is starting to piss me off, as I could accept the fans of the Sox, calling it that name, but the broadcasters like Dave Roberts, who had a cup of coffee with the Sox, should take a more mature route. Maybe these idiots should start looking at their tainted championships. Sorry, but when your MVP of the ALCS and MVP of the World Series, both are on 'Roids, I wouldn't start slinging mud. At least we aren't dumb enough to think Brian, did it once and stopped like they think Juice Daddy did.

I went to a game last week. My buddy was so drunk that he made me laugh. He slept with his mouth open and a bug went in. If it wasn't for that I honestly think I would have cried. I still left by the 6th inning. I grew up on Frank, Brooks, Jim Palmer,and Boog. This is not Oriole baseball. Basically we are watching minor league baseball right now. The front office sounds like politicians. They say whatever they think will appease us. You can't tell me that we are anywhere close to competing for the division. It's a joke and I am not buying it. I have watched winning and soon to be winning baseball teams. This present day Oriole team is neither. Baseball and my beloved Orioles are robbing the fans. We will never be able to compete as long as the balance of power remains as it is. It will be the Yankees, Redsoxs, and everybody else. I think that the next game that I attend I will walk in with my hands up like I getting robbed, because we are getting robbed. My only question is when do we start wear the bags instead of O's hats.

It's going to be a slow and painful process but Tillman and Matusz have arrived. Berken will be gone. Brad B. and David Hernandez have shown they can pitch and WIN at the big league level.

Wieters and Reimold will be where Markakis and Jones are in another year.

So, sure, Roid Sox fans have plenty to be proud of: a bloated payroll and a team of cheaters and performance-ehancing-taking cowards.

Well here we are again. The breaking point. The point to where the hopelessness begins. If this same thing has been happening for 11 or 12 years, one should be able to analyze and determine where the deciency lies. The only way to bring fans back into Camden Yards and to keep the "beaneaters" out is for the Os to play like they want their fans back. The same thing happened to the Rays last year. On opening day, it was a library at Tropicana Field, but at the end of the year, it was a friggin rock concert! This year the only thing thats best for the Os to do is to keep their heads up and play out the season. If one thought that we were going to be a contender this year with THAT pitching staff has to be nuts! Its still a rebuilding season and believe it or not, this is most promising season I've saw yet. The Wankees and Red Sux's cheating ways will catch up to them, before long, that cable tabloid channel ESPN, will be brown nosing the Os and the Rays. Just stick with them folks, it can only get better.

Hal W and Walt,

It's a bit rich to hear O's fans complain about steroid users on the Sox and Yankees. Remember Rafael Palmeiro, Tejeda, Brady Anderson, Melvin Mora, Jay Gibbons, Brian Roberts, etc. I believe the O's have had more than their share of juiced up players.

Hey Ken

Brian Roberts has been pulling plays like the one I mentioned all year bud.

You lose when you start telling others to go root for other teams because you don't like when people call a spade a spade.

It's arrogant "real fans" like you that are the joke. You think someone who takes the time to post on a blog and engage in talk about the Orioles isn't a "real fan" and should go root for the Nationals?

Your assumptions and comments towards me are laughable because they are so ridiculously ignorant.

And I'll post whatever I want to on this board. Brian Roberts dogs it.

And please don't act as if myself and others on this board who see it are somehow blind or not "real fans".

There are people in the warehouse who think the exact same thing.

O, and Hal. Brian Roberts roided as well. In fact, the Orioles were ground zero for much of the steroid stuff.

Or is that not true Ken?

When Melvin can get a hit with 2 out and runners in scoring positon, he will be respected.

This team is beyond rancid.
Sell the franchise on ebay, demolish the stadium, and sow the grounds with salt.

abc123,
Oh without a doubt the Os has had their share of "roid recipients", but we're talking about the "can't do no wrong" Red Sox and Yankees. f

Time to clear out the dead wood (Melvin Mora) and get these young guys as much ML experience as possible before we have to go through this again in 2010. Melvin is basically asking to be released and that he thinking about his vacation in October - get rid of the guys who are part of a losing mentality - that goes for players and coaches.

At least he sees the writing on the wall - the O's are bringing in young guys and it's time for Melvin to move on. I've been saying this for two years - pay to get rid of people like this. Andy should release him today and send a signal that this is not acceptable.

"How bad can it get"? I am a season ticket holder and I left yesterday's game. I am planning on watching the Ravens practice even special teams.

Sad to see how negative most fans are re: the team. Yes, unfortunately the O's haven't been very competitive vs the Yankees or Sox this year. And yesterday was about as ugly as it gets. I'm very tired of being embarrassed by the Yankees and the Sox too. BUT I see some hope with this team and organization. What's missing is a real #1 starter to carry the load until the youngsters develop, a decent 3B and a more consistent hitting 1B. With that and the continuing growth and development of the youngsters on this team, we should see a pretty competitive team in another year or so. Then, AM can look to add the valuable free agent here and there. So, despite the annual 2nd half collapse that we seem to be witnessing, try to hang in there. With just a few key off-season moves, this team can develop into a very competitive team. Try to be hopeful. Try to be positive.

Guys don’t rip B-Rob he’s going through the same stuff Mora is going through. Knowing your efforts are wasted and that you w***** out for dollars. Tex didn’t want to be that guy he wanted to play for a baseball team that has a shot of winning.
I admit it I was a sucker and bought a 13 game pack for this season… Worst decision in awhile but I am brining paper bags with save us written on them to each game for my whole section.

In the next 2-3 years when we are looking for a new GM I suggest we attempt going for a younger guy (like Theo E). This organization is run by a bunch of dinosaurs and needs a dose of youth that will understand the fans better and help get them back. Maybe revamp MASN to something watchable and make the whole Oriole experience less corny and pathetic.

just saw the Roylas designated Ponson assignment. I saw we trade Mora for Ponson and have him start for us the rest of the way. He may be a crappy MLB pitcher, but he's more reliable than most of the guys we have. Sadly, at this point, he'd be an upgrade to our staff. And, we'd get rid of Mora.

Walt,

The difference between the O's and the "can't do no wrong" Sox and Yanks is the expectations. When the Sox and Yanks players mess up, they get crucified by the local media and management. When the O's players mess up, they get hugs and understanding from AM, DT and local media because losing is part of the PLAN.

I know it's probably great for Pete to get over 100 comments for his post, but seriously guys just jump off the bandwagon if that's what you want to do.

None of you even go to the stadium but you complain about the O's not overpaying guys or that Red Sox fans took over our ballpark. If I ask "well were you at the game?" You'll say "no, I'm too good to watch them lose" or some nonsense. Then you'll say the team looks lazy and has no heart and I'd say they probably follow the lead of fans like you guys taking more time to throw in the towel than be a supportive fan.

Just come back in 2 years if that's what you want to do. I'd rather watch the O's lose 162 in a season than to listen to some of you nail yourselves to the cross after every loss when you go on your stupid tirades.

You guys all live in this world where you can assemble a team like it's a fantasy league and using hindsight somehow makes you a genius. The reality is that we're a small market team in a mega-market division.

As for the whole BRob thing, I've seen him hustle more than anyone in the game more times than I've seen him trot one out. Even Ripken made errors and jogged more than he ran towards the end. Do you want to start shredding him too?

Lastly, for those that would have let their wives have Texeira's babies if he came to Baltimore and think PA made a bad decision in not backing up the truck for him: #1 Put him in our lineup and answer me if his stats would make us a contender in 2009? #2 Given that we'd still be losing, you all would be ripping him as overhyped and overpaid by now (think I'm wrong, just look what you're doing to BRob), #3 If I was his caliber player, I wouldn't take a hometown discount if "fans" like you don't go to games and just sit home and abuse the team all day. #4 He's not even the best at his position this year in his own division let alone the whole league like he should be based on his overpriced salary so just shut up about him already.

Please spare everyone of your BS about being a true fan. Many fans who post here go the games, watch from home or have season tickets. Many who voice their opinions do so because they are fans and are fed up with the travesty that's going on with our team. Apparently you have made the decision to bend over and take it with no vaseline, or have put your PA knee pads on and are hanging on with both hands.

Please spare everyone of your BS about being a true fan. Many fans who post here go the games, watch from home or have season tickets. Many who voice their opinions do so because they are fans and are fed up with the travesty that's going on with our team. Apparently you have made the decision to bend over and take it with no vaseline, or have put your PA knee pads on and are hanging on with both hands.

I have always loved Mora. But, he is wrong here. He is not the player he was. Now with his attitude, its time to waive him and part waves. Don't let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you! Shame we can't do the same with PA!

I am going to give Mora the benefit of the doubt. He’s played for this loser way too long to get treated like this. In case anybody didn’t notice this team could lose 100 games this season!! Trembley should just let the guy play since we don’t care about contending. This is the exact reason the majority of MLB players have Baltimore on their no trade list. And another thing… WHO THE F*** IS DAVE TREMBLEY? What has he done positive for the O’s at all except make us a joke all around baseball. Did you see that out of shape idiot try to argue that call at the end of the game? He’s an embarrassment! Mora is a standup guy and be thankful we had him so long. Think about how bad we would have been in previous seasons without him.

Pete i hate to say it but you are a day dreamer.You can bet your bottom dollar that it will get worse , we won't win 70 games this year.Pete do you know how hard it is for a second tier club like the orioles to compete the rest of the year against teams that are in contention and have something to play for.I watch other games and i will give you a example of what i am talking about. Although this is just a small thing last night in the dodger game in the 8th inning when furcal went from first to third on a single, the 3rd base coach came over and high fived him and you could just see how much fun and passion that they hadfor the game. You don't see that at all on the orioles.Pete i know you watch these games but if you are realistic the orioles aren't even in the same time zone as the yankee's and boston and bringing up some rookie pitchers isn't ever going to change that no matter how positive you try and be. Please and don't tell me about Tampa bay doing it, there pitchers were better then ours and there everyday players are better then ours. We are dreamers in this town pete nothing more nothing less.

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Pete's reply: All right, Bob, but when things eventually do get better, how are you going to pass the time?

That is funny on Ponson, really you cannot be serious, what would you rather watch a washed up pitcher, or watch the future develop right now, here in Baltimore. I think you are forgetting that PA had to pay a bunch of money out to that bum, just this year.

Baltimore does not give hugs to errors, but really what do you do when a player makes an error, yell at him, move him to right field like a bad little league coach would do?

People remember that as painful as this is, this was the plan for the season. Would I have been happy to see Mark and AJ here? Hell yes. But that was not in the plans. The fans have a right to be critical of the situation because of the failures over the last 12 years of pain created by an owner that thought that throwing money at middle of the road, end of their career free agents was the way to fix things. PA has seemed to have learned from this, and is letting McPhail do his job, which is a first for Peter.

Really it is us, as fans that pays for the players, without the fans there is no game, there is no Baltimore Orioles. We have the right to voice how unhappy we are with how the team is ran, but really the personnel attacks on the players is not necessarily the best path to take. The core of the team is pretty good, and if you think that things will not get better, root for someone else.

Gotta think if this plummet continues we'll have seen the end of Dave, right? Not that I'm happy about it but it just seems inevitable.

I’m sorry but if AM’s plan was to be bad this season he should be fired. It doesn’t matter if a historically bad team stinks but you have to at least try to be loyal to the fans. Look at who we picked up this year. Look at our AAA manager. Look at this organizations ability to make a negative issue out of anything from Mora to Wieters first home run ball debacle. Fans straight up do not deserve this. You are not a bad fan by calling out a team that is this dysfunctional and has been for so long.

word up Ty Wigginfly, great use of the Shirelles tune.

Heading in to motown no less.

People get ready theres a train a comin', or is Dontrelle no longer in the rotation?

Is Mel Mora really the son of a preacher man?

Onceawarrior,

I wish that Jimmy Ley would feel pity for what happened to the O’s yesterday and pitch D-Money Dontrelle! Maybe have D money pitch until the 8th and have Jamie Walker close it out. O’s could win that… Maybe….

Pete,

I really enjoy your blog mainly for the fans commentary. Don’t take this the wrong way but you have been counterintuitive all season man. Release your inner Jay Mariotti and report the dysfunction within this putrid organization. That’s been the story here with the Orioles for some time.
I understand though why you are playing it safe .. I wouldn’t want PA to sue me or run me out of town.

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Pete's reply: I'm not playing it safe. I'm the one who has been around a lot organizations over the years and seen what works and what doesn't. This isn't the same old song and dance. If you thought the Orioles really had a great chance to win yesterday's game, you are the one who is looking through rose-colored glasses.

Angelos now surpasses matt milen as the evil sports figure lol. Remember a couple years back at a Colorado Rockies game some fan had a sign saying fire Milen? Hahaha expect some O’s fan to travel to some far off sports town not during baseball season to get on sports center and bring attention to the subject.

Ed, It was the plan, rebuilding the entire minor system, and building within. I am not saying the plan has worked, nor have I said the plan is perfect. The reason the management of the team chose this path was because the other path failed. Funny thing is a lot of the players have bought into the plan. Roberts could have simply demanded a trade and Markakis could have said no thanks to a long term deal. George Sherrill wanted to be a part of the future and publicly asked not to be traded.

As a fan, I hate being patient, sometimes I think I will be a senior citizen before they get better. But we have to be real, it is not Trembley, nor Roberts that is causing this team to tank it is lack of pitching experience. If you fire everyone what will that fix? I here people talk about Showalter, really think he can make this team play .500 baseball this year? Yes a 18 to 10 loss is tough, but you have to remember the Texas-Oriole game that was much worse.

"Too many people looked too comfortable," said Trembley, indicating his pitchers weren't throwing inside enough. "When that happens, you're probably going to get some results that aren't too pleasing."

So he had 8 or more innings the tell his professional ball players to pitch inside. Did he? Or did they not listen? Either way, not good.

"Demolish the stadium, and sow the grounds with salt."

Bryan, I hate watching the Orioles lose as much as the next guy, but this is nothing short of blasphemy.

cb coach,

You receive the optimist of the year award. You're encouraged because the Sox scored only 18 runs instead of 30. Take a bow.

Actually I think the O's like other teams are right to pursue youth rather than veterans. My objection is the tolerance for losing and the low expecations that flows from AM on down. You can be young AND demanding.

Well, Pete! I think the annual collapse is happening right now. In fact, I think it started before the all-star break. Earlier this year than last. As a life-long die-hard, I have to say that I am losing hope and heart that the Orioles will ever be able to compete in the AL East. Without a salary cap, the small-market teams, KC, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc. will never be able to compete with the big boys. Baseball is the only major sport without a salary cap, and if I were the owners, I would lock the players out for the next contract negotiation, but they don't have the guts to do it. This is a very frustrating time for a once very proud organization.

To Melvin: Disrespect? You've disrespected every Orioles fan for the last several years by being the worst baserunner in the majors.

Don't get me wrong - he's been a good player but he's part of the losing culture. He and his .650 OPS belong on the bench.

This team needs a new manager, among other things. We've had nothing but "rookie" managers since Hargrove (not that he did a great job, but he had little to work with).

Trembley became manager because he was on the staff when Perlozzo was fired. Only now that his job is on the line is he "disrespecting" underperforming veterans like Mora.

Again, I'm not expecting miracles, but it seems that "Swoon Time" starts earlier with each passing year.

If we end up losing more than 100 games, I don't see Trembley being back next year (he may not be back even without "achieving" that landmark).

Frank Robinson may be getting on in years, but he was the manager during the "Why not?" season. He even made the Nationals look mediocre during their transition year (which was an accomplishment). Bury the hatchet with Davey Johnson, beg Earl Weaver to come out of retirement.

"I mean, how much worse can it get?" You have a sadistic sense of humor.

In all of the blather about Tremblay vs. Mora, Angelos the Lizard King, O's who don't know how to win; what about Rick Kranitz's role in the dysfunctional pitching situation? Me thinks the same stiff wind that will blow Tremblay out of Baltimore will take Kranitz with it. There is no excuse for what happened Sunday. How in the hell can you get shellshocked twice in less than 5 innings and call yourself a major league club?

Pete,
If this team wins 69 games I will throw a block party! Hope you right!

I know its easy to preach doom and gloom after a day like yesterday but I just cant see this team getting motivated to do much after such a downfall. especially with this crazy Mora situation. Say what you want it just makes everyone feel a little awkward and ready for next season allready....

First, way to go by posting with my name instead of addressing me with a greeting.

Second, the people that complain the most do so DURING games. So unless they all use their iPhones to read the blog and post while they're at the game, then they're at home. Then you can just read every entry that gets into these debates includes people "refusing to go again until..." or "I haven't been to a game since," etc. On top of that just look at the attendence numbers. I'm not making it up that a lot of people quit on actually supporting this team.

Lastly, I don't bend over for anyone, let alone Peter Angelos. I'm just not an idiot that thinks he can spend with the Yankees when the team makes a miniscule fraction of the income that the Yankees make. I'm a realist. Does the record suck this year? Heck yes it sucks and it's often hard to watch. Teams try what we did over the winter and do well with it. Did it blow up in everyone's face when Eaton, Koji and Hill all hit the tank? Sure. Other teams have signed guys like that and done well with it. Al Leiter was already at the bottom of the other side of the hill when Florida signed him, but he put together a solid year in 97. It also didn't help us that Guthrie chose this year to go from the guy who just needs run support to pitching like it's batting practice.

Don't tell me buying an ace is some kind of guranteed ticket to contending either. Buying pitching is tough. Look at Mike Hampton, Bartolo Colon, Carl Pavano, Dontrelle Willis, Barry Zito, etc who all go BUST for huge money. Heck, Seattle is a perfect example when they went and got Bedard. They're losing with him. So to me it does make sense to take low risk options as opposed to high risk options when the margin of error is so small. Some people disagree and I got that a month ago. Turn the page. It's done. It happened.

Rather than just say we should sign guys right off the All-Star team with blank checks and just bitch and moan all day, I'm just saying don't forget to support the guys we have because they're what we've got right now. So like 'em or lump 'em, they're your beloved Orioles. Who knows, maybe they'd even respond to an actual outporing of support rather than the outporing of negativity.

The fan is supposed to be the 10th player (or 12th if it's football, etc.) and look around the next time you're at the game. Collectively the 10th man is holding out over selfish reasons and the team is suffering for it. They go to all these sold out stadiums and then come home to 20,000 fans or a Yankees/Boston home game that they just happen to bat last in.

James C,
I hear you man. I have purchased the 13 game packs for the last couple years since being back in the area and on top of that I try to even go to games beyond that I find interesting! Now with that said I feel like a sucker right now for paying for this garbage! Most fans are waiting on coming back until this team pulls their head out of their @ass!

Thanks! I try to be optimistic, but I am not encouraged about the 18 runs, I am saying it can be worse. I am sure that McPhail and the rest of the upper level management team was hoping that Eaton, Hendrickson, Koji and Simon would have allowed for more development time for the young pitchers to get more seasoning, but all of them failed either by not best suited for starting, talent or injury. There is a reason that Berken was promoted before Tilllman, Matusz, Arrieta or Patton, because he had more minor league experience and was not considered one of the big three or four.

Here is a good analogy for you. You take your kids to school everyday in a car and your tires are worn down, would you go buy retreads or would you rather get something new. Retreads are something we have seen in the past blow up, while at least with something new, you can look forward instead of backwards. Do you want Steve Trachsel or Adam Eaton types rotating in and out of Baltimore or see some good young pitchers come up and learn now, that should be the silver lining. Hopefully next year we can all be singing "I can see clearly now" by Johnny Nash!

Pete,

I still feel this team is a staff away from contending. The lineup we are going to put out there the next few years is more than able to take this team places it has not seen for 10+ years.

My only fear is, what if Tillman, Matusz, Hernandez are as inconsistent as Cabrera, Loewen, Penn, etc? I am just praying that these kids show us this season some signs. Bergs has done that. Hernandez to an extent has shown promise, and now it is time for Tillman and Matusz to pitch well for this pathetic team, and prove to MacPhail that we are a solid 1-2 veteran FAs away from kicking butt once again.

John,

In no way was I suggesting we should sign Prior, I just saw him on the potential list of FA's and looked at his stats because I couldn't remember the last time I heard anything about him other than him being signed by the Padres. Signing a pitcher who hasn't been in the Majors for 3 years wouldn't be something I'd endorse, just was a sad reminder of a great arm gone to waste.

I say we throw the bank at Holliday and Lackey. They plus the youthful talent we have infused into the lineup (technically by force since we stink) will help us sniff the playoffs.

Mark, As far as I'm concerned this is the end of our discussion on Brian Roberts. It's evident that you detest the guy and go out of your way to find fault even when it isn't there.

You call a spade a spade? Ha! If you were calling a spade a spade we wouldn't be having this discussion.

As I expected, your reply made no mention of the not so insignificant fact that Brian is second in the league in runs scored, the statistic which is the benchmark for leadoff hitters and of course you can't address that because it goes totally against your false claim that "he dogs it," utterly refutes it.

I don't object to you posting, but what I do object to is your ranting. Instead, try sustaining a reasoned argument for a change, just once.

As for the time Brian used steroids, that was in 2003 before baseball imposed any penalties for it's use. Was he wrong in using it? Of course, and he's admitted as much but steroids didn't get him where he is today. And the Orioles never believed it did, either; had that been a concern, they would have released him like others who tested positive, such as Rafael Palmeiro and Jay Gibbons.

If you think the two-time All Star hasn't built his body the right way, isn't a serious workout freak in the offseason, then you just haven't been paying attention.

I'll back off on my end-of-discussion remark at the top of this post, but only if you'll serious address my central claim, and that is that B-Rob's clearly doing his job scoring runs. If you're honest and at all open-minded about it, you'll at least concede that point. (For other points about Roberts--including a bit of a concession of my own, see below.)

Barry (and Mark, if you're still reading), This hasn't been one of Brian's finest seasons, that I'll admit, but it's still a productive one and he still has two months to crank it up a notch.

I live in Cincinnati and don't have the luxury to attend Oriole games and I refuse to spend for anything more than audio from MLB until the team really turns the corner, which doesn't appear imminent.

I mention this because all I can gauge Brian's defense on is what I'm told in the broadcasts and some video highlights. If he's having trouble throwing when going away from first, then that's a new development, because it wasn't a problem for him before this season.

The loss of range is puzzling, too, but your suggestion about his health issues earlier this year may have something to do with it.

The one offensive category that's down for him is stolen bases, which is only 20. He's still far and away the O's leader in that department and he's only been caught five times, so that's good.

Some people have actually tried to blast him on that, too, but maybe as far back as Spring Training it was revealed that the O's as a team would not be stealing as much, because there supposedly were so many run producers in the lineup that the team wouldn't need to manufacture runs very often. While that may have been true in April, it's time to see more running in my opinion; in fact, it's long overdue.

Replacing Captain Kirk with Elroy Jetson. Good one, Barry. O's need to keep their futuristic outlook going!

Diane, If you've read this far, you should realize that your attack on B-Rob as not producing is unfounded. Melvin Mora underachieving? Definitely. Brian? No way.

Get rid of Dave Trembley and the Orioles will start to change. We need a manager.

wow Ken Francis you don't even watch the games yet you defend Roberts so vociferously? thats curious

Yes he is second in runs scored perhaps but he unquestionably dogs it, has poor body language, goes "stylin" or whatever you want to call it, much of the time. And of course it can and will rub off on younger players. For the last couple of weeks or so he's been diving for balls he has no chance for, and even running hard to first on right side grounders, which tells me that DT talked to him and he gets it. But old habits are hard man, and he still slips into that jog out of the box mode occasionally.

Hey i'm a Roberts fan but stats such as runs scored and rbi depend a lot on teammates. I would contend that OBP is the most important stat for a leadoff guy.

And while on the subject of stats, which is about all you got if you can't watch i suppose, Roberts clearly had much more HR power in 2003. I believe he hit about 10 HR in April alone and finished with 18 or so. This was the same time frame that Melvin hit .340, Tejada was 30+ homers and Gibbons was mashing. And why won't Roberts return Larry Bigbie's phone calls if Brian is indeed so "sorry". He's sorry he got outed as a cheater.

Pete and if they don't get better or if they do get better and the best they can finish is 3rd because like i said they are in a different time zone from the top two teams will you admit that the rose colored glasses that you have been wearing were to tinted even for you.

John- No i cant really blame Texeira if he doesnt want sign with O's. But there are fans here who think because he is a LOCAL , he OWES it to them to sign with O's.
Slugger-thanks for NY Post link on Texeira . Your point is correct (so was Pete's to someone else's Texeira post). My argument is since MacPhail is running the show , Angelos was willing to let AM get into bidding war for Texeira . The only reason that didnt happen is because Texeira/Boras told AM/O's to stop making offers .
But as one poster said , 'its time for Texeira saga to end ' .

Howard- 'im giving Mora benefit of doubt' and 'Mora been playing too long to be disrespected' .
How are the O's/Trembley disrespecting Mora ? They gave him 4 year , $ 8 million per annum contract ( Which he sometimes didnt earned ). This year , Mora hasnt been producing at the plate ( his worst year of all his O's years). Mora went to media to whine and trashed on Trembley and O's organization.
Did anyone see Trembley on media trashing Mora ? No , he took the high road ( 'im sorry he feels that way' ) .
Trembley gave Mora over what , 300 some at bats ? Plus , Trembley kept Mora in 5th spot . As most can see , Trembley stuck up for Mora longer than he deserved to . The manager is the one who writes the starting lineups , not the players .
Mr Mora , just because your manager isnt writing your name on lineup doesnt mean he is 'disrespecting' you .
Mora , stop taking things personally and grow up !

O's need a real manager (D. Johnson) who put foot in tail when needed,a pitching coach (to brush back the yankees and red sox and a real hitting coach who can teach good hitting.

onceawarrior, You argue that OBP is more important than runs scored for a leadoff hitter? That argument has zero merit. Is OBP important--even highly important--for a leadoff hitter. Yes, of course. More important than how many runs he scored for his team? You're kidding, right?

True, I don't actually see the much of the games, but that doesn't affect my evaluating of what Brian's doing for the team. Now, as far as "stylin'" or dogging it, I can't speak to that much, obviously, as I'm limited to what Joe Angel and Fred Manfra tell me, but through the 104 regular season games I've listened to I can't really say they've been making an issue of it and those guys are not shy about pointing out if someone's doing something wrong. (Case in point: Last season they pulled no punches about how bad Ramon Hernandez was about blocking pitches in the dirt and this year noted how much of an improvement Gregg Zaun is in that regard.)

Since you bring up watching the games, I want to bring Peter Schmuck into the conversation. Pete, you see any of the issues with B-Rob in the field that onceawarrior brings up? If so, it doesn't seem to be something that's a major problem, because I don't see you writing about it .

Pete,
You stated earlier "..The people who are only looking at the W-L record need to take a nap until next year."

I guess I can nap for years as the W-L record is about the same every year. All the moves and so-called rebuilding plan leaves me no more encouraged than a last place team even next year. I know things can change with FA signings, trades, the possibility of a the Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays abd Rays having their charter flights hijacked (God forbid) and they have to play in a Cuban league. However, ecept for the last scenario, the Orioles will be in the basement next year. You can't honestly say you don't feel that way bazsed upon the facts as you know them. Am I wrong with that statement?

James C-
I'm reminded of the "Seinfeld" when Jerry tells George, who wants Jerry to play along in aconversation. "I'm not going along. I can just see you in Berlin in 1939 goose-stepping past me: 'C'mon Jerry, go along, go along...'"

Blind faith is not always a good thing.

Ken Francis

I've missed watching exactly two games this season. I've been to 15+.

Im stunned that you would argue some vehemently about a subject when you haven't seen the same thing as others in the debate.

Buck Martinez has not so subtley brought up Pedroia's hustle and leadership when talking about Roberts.

I know for a fact that my view is shared by many people, including some who's opinions are valued much more than either yours or mine.

I have no axe to grind with Roberts. I'm just callin it like I see it.

Regarding the steroids. My point was that it's ridiculous to bash Ortiz and the Red Sox etc.... while ignoring the fact that a bunch of Orioles, including Roberts, are just as guilty.

I realize you weren't the person who posted it and I didn't need to take the jab at you. I'm just fed up right now and let my emotions get in the way.

EC,

I don't have blind faith. I just don't have the need to bemoan every minute detail of a team that, at the end of the day, I care a great deal about.

I loved the free spending late 90's and when things were amazing. I was only 3 when we last won a World Series, so to be a teenager at the ALCS games in 96 & 97 were some of my best baseball memories. All I have to do is look north and see that spending money like that guarantees you nothing. The Yankees had a HOF caliber manager and still lost with that kind of money. Heck, we were spending it in 99 and beyond too and look how well it worked out.

I'm just not throwing temper tantrums and being a little brat about everything. I also have respect for the young guys who are trying as best they can and I'm not going to apologize for standing up for them deserving to see their own fans in their own ballpark now and then.

It's everyone that's holding hands and goose-stepping right off the ledge when some miracle season didn't come into existance this year that's not a good thing.

James,
What you have to understand is the fans who are your age or older, have seen an incredible decline of a proud franchise.

Fans don't hate the players, who in general are trying their best. They dislike the owner, who is only visable when it comes to some type of litigation. Even the spring training site turned into a fiasco. When something does change, the ownership acts if it is doing us a favor. They have allienated two generations of fans, and have generally showed no will to win.

The list can on and on, but look at this realistically. The owner won't share financial information (and he does not have to), but reliable sources, inclduding Forbes, shows that Angelos is making a significant profit. In addition, the deal he got when the team went to DC was very lucrative. The payroll continues to decline as does attendance, and this is due to the mismanagement at numerous levels. THe Orioles can compete. They might not have the resources of NY, but the team went from a medium/large market town to a small market team under his leadership.

The Orioles players care, there are employees that care, but their leadership and focus went away when Angelso drove out people like Larry Luchinno and Bob Aylward. You might not know those names, but they are as important as Pat Gillick and Davey Johnson (two more people that took the limelight from Angelos and were forced out).

When you lose no matter what is forced out through the media, you lose. Fans have had more than enough and have every right to be disatified with the product.

The one thing I hate the most in sports: Red Sox Nation.

This type of bandwagon trend is literally unprecedented throughout the history of sports. People seem to have utterly forgotten how terribly pedestrian the Sox really were before 5-7 years ago. They are FAR FROM a celebrated franchise. I certainly haven’t forgotten the 86 year World Series drought, which was, oh by the way, single handedly ended by two of baseballs most recently exposed steroid abusers (Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz). Thus, the breaking of this “curse” should have an asterisk next to it. That is, however, beside the point.

What doesn’t really surprise me (albeit extremely irritating) is the massive influx of fan support the Red Sox have experienced over the past decade. I will be the first to admit that a similar trend would undoubtedly occur at Camden Yards if the O’s were to bust out as a playoff contender in the next few seasons. That said, those fair weather fans, whether they’re Orioles or Red Sox fans, are the least deserving to reap the rewards of a successful campaign. I would even go so far as to say that said fans are stealing the rightful credit from the franchise’s unwavering supporters. Ironically, it seems that these same uninformed fans make up the majority of The Nation’s constituency, and it really bothers me these very supporters think their team is God’s gift to baseball. News Flash – THEY’RE NOT:

Between 1969 and 1998:
• The Red Sox finished 1st in the AL East 5 times
• The Orioles and Yankees combined for 16 total first place finishes in that same time period (8 each)
o PS that’s more than 3 times the amount of first place finishes the Red Sox achieved…in case you’re a Sox fan, in which case you probably aren’t very smart

Between 1999 and 2008:
• The Red Sox finished 1st in the AL East ONCE
• The Yankees finished 1st in the AL East 8 times

What this proves: OK the Orioles clearly fell off a little bit (that’s an understatement) after our 1997 division title. It also speaks volumes about the Red Sox: They have been wildly mediocre over the past 40 years. No one is going to argue that the Orioles are a good team right now. However, if you are going to try to support the fallacious notion that the Red Sox franchise is more impressive than the Orioles franchise, which seems to be a commonplace misconception of the Nation’s everyman, then you are, quite simply, ignorant.

Believe it or not, I met a Sox fan in Baltimore for the series this past weekend who flat out told me, “I hate Red Sox Nation, it is the worst thing that ever happened to our franchise.” By that of course he meant he hates the bandwagon fans and all the baggage they carry with them (incredibility, under appreciation of the Red Sox struggle, provinciality, etc). I truly respected this refreshingly enlightened point of view COMING FROM A SOX FAN.

While I don’t like any Red Sox fans because I dislike they’re team, I can respect the small grouping that have been there from the start. What really pisses me off (and the real reason I am writing, what has turned out to be, this article) is a Sox fan who is not a bandwagon fan, yet still upholds this unwarranted sense of entitlement. Jim Rice’s condescending remarks regarding “Fenway on the Chesapeake” epitomize just that. Jim Rice should know better…

I’d like to reference Ted’s post from a couple days ago:

“Here's some salt in your wounds: Jim Rice and some other joker chuckling post-game on NESN about how many sox fans come to 'Fenway on the Chesapeake.' Rice wouldn't let it drop ... I guess he thinks no one remembers that his sox teams routinely were looking up at the O's in the standings by season's end”

Really? Of all people to disrespect the Baltimore Orioles like that I would think Jim Rice to be the last. In his hall-of-fame caliber 16 year career he helped his Red Sox to 3 division titles and made 2 playoff appearances. That same decade Jim Rice began play, the O’s made it to the playoffs 5 different times. I’m not trying to play down the accolades of a player who deservingly has a plaque posted on the wall in Cooperstown. Rather, I’d like to point out that a player like Jim Rice should remember facing the Orioles in their prime and should acknowledge the truly vibrant history Baltimore’s franchise enjoys, rather than mock the growing pains of a promising young organization. Something tells me 2 years from now Jim Rice won’t be so sprightly when announcing O’s-Sox games…