Things that are tough to watch in this series:
1. The As busting their hump on every play...even routine grounders and the Os leisurely strolls down the line.
2. Not just lack of clutch hitting, the lack of a plan at the plate. 2-0/3-1, you look for a certain pitch in a certain zone...not there? take it. Too many bad swings at bad pitches witht he count in the Os favor.
3. Didn't see much of today, but the Os don't make many loud outs. The runs they got yesterday came on an out of the bat knob, a groundout, and 15 hopper to right.
4. Bad base running in general.
5. Better at throwing strike one (Hernandez). Amazing what happens. 2 HR, noone on base. So what.

Well just look at what the 7, 8 and 9 hitters did to the Orioles pitching. And look at our clutch hitting against the A's. It is tough, I cannot imagine that the Orioles players feel they are this bad. I am sure the team feels they are closer to competing than they were last year, and I think that was the goal this year to get closer.

So pathetic.

This team has such little plate discipline, it's like watching little leaguers.

Pie, Huff, Mora, sometimes Roberts....these guys should know better than to go up there hacking away at the first friggin' pitch they see. And Wigginton is the worst of the whole lot.

Dave Johnson said on the radio when day that he didn't care if Wigginton swings at the first pitch all the time, as long as he is getting it done. I almost came out of my seat! For every time swinging at pitch one is successful, it's probably unsuccessful 8 times, resulting in double plays, weak grounders, and pop ups.

Make the other team pitch, wear out their pitchers, get to the bullpen if you have to. Trading a single swing for an out is terrible economy on the field.

Pete,
The last 20 games were not pretty either. They only won six of the 20. Will Lou Montanez be able to return in September?

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Pete's reply: I think he'll get some swings by then, but not sure.

2 for 26 with RISP this series! That's an
.077 BA!

In other news, Tim Lincecum (Pick 10 in the '06 draft) is pitching another gem this afternoon against the Dodgers. 6 innings, 1 run, 3 strikeouts, 1 walk.

How's Billy Rowell (Pick 9) doing? .233 avg with a 648 ops in Frederick? Nice...

Oh, and in his past 300 games, Rowell has struck out 308 times and walked only 95?

Lincecum has 466 strikeouts and only 127 walks in his last 397 innings.

Awesome!

Ditto barf/

I agree with the Schmuckster

Doesnt happen often, but the Schmuckeroni is right , the O's are too comfortable with making excuses. I dont want to get into self fulfilling prophecy and all that, but 2010 can NOT be another rebuilding year written off before it begins because it will kill the psyche of the legit MLers on this team--it shouldnt, but it will. Roberts is already toast~~ he was a much more interested player in the WBC and it showed in his performance

Ok, I'm sick of hearing about taking the first pitch. Yes, plate discipline is important, but it's frustrating watching a batter take the first pitch right down the middle (probably the best pitch that batter will see) and then swinging at a pitch out of the strike zone. Oh, and could somebody tell Adam Jones that the rest of the league is on to him and knows if you throw one in the dirt when he has 2 strikes on him, he will swing at it. I like Adam as a hitter, but it's a whole different story when he has 2 strikes on him (yes, I know hitting with 2 strikes is always more difficult, but Adam has to have a better eye when it comes to two strike pitches). It was also painful to watch that failed double steal take us out of an inning. If Markakis stays on first, first and third with one out.....much better than man on third with 2 outs. All in all, a frustrating loss to a team we need to be able to beat.

Another loss, another base running blunder...what else is new? Other than no other team in the majors has a 2-10 pitcher in the starting rotation. No doubt he stays in the rotation too. I think Trembley should institute a new policy with base running. Any player who gets picked off, who forgets the amount of outs, etc, gets fined $10,000 and sits for a week. Wanna' bet that stops it? Hit 'em in the wallet since they are obviously playing with their heads elsewhere.

Facts, I think you are on to something with the fines. We need a clubhouse captain to rule a kangaroo court. Call out the bonehead plays, have a laugh and a fine, and they will hopefully start to pay more attention.

Of course there is no leader to do that. One more piece missing from the equation.

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Pete's reply: They had a Kangaroo Court earlier this year. Zaun was the judge.

another lackluster game today. trembley says they are busting their buns. to me that seems a bit questionable.they look like a team with their heads stuck in the southern hemisphere. i too am tired of hearing nothing but excuses for the way they are playing.

When will these guys wake up? I cannot believe that this is the best this team can do. No matter who we bring in, the players seem to play down to the O's level of mediocrity. It is time to bring in a new manager who will expect more and light a fire under this team. I am not sure who can turn this mess around but we need to find him. I am tired of the excuses, tired of the lackadaisical attitudes and play, tired of bad managing, tired of bad base running and tire bad fundamentals. This does not make sense. Many teams have won, rebuilt, and won again and yet we still can’t even manage to play .500 ball in 12 years - 12 years!!! WAKE UP ORIOLES. THIS IS NOT NATURAL OR NORMAL. Until the plan translates into wins, it is a bust. And if anyone thinks that things will be better in 2011 or 12, think again. The sad point is that Boston, NY, and Tampa continue to get better and the competition gap grows wider every year. We have no game changers on the team or in the organization and I am not sure that type of player wants to come here. When the O's get sick and tired and being sick and tired, maybe things will change. This whole sorry affair is just plain pitiful...

Today I got excited thinking about the offseason. Markakis and Roberts have big contracts, but nobody else. This is the first time in more than a decade that they have no albatross money and somebody with a brain in the front office.

Of course, a spending spree could get us right back to the Segui/Daal era. But a few judicious millions, combined with the young pitching ... better days ahead.

Funny thing is, you know who would be a good fit at a reduced rate? Miguel Tejada. I wonder how many other teams will make him offers. He can still hit, and maybe they can move him to 3B.

Ok.......there are two types of people when it comes to business. There are "problem identifiers"....these are the people that keep pointing out that there is a problem. These people are pretty much useless. I call them industry cry babies. Then there are "solution providers"....these are people that not only see the problem, but have a reasonable plan to fix it. These people are invaluable to a company. These are the people that make it to the top of the pyramid.
So let me play the role of solution provider. The O's suck. We all agree with that. How do we fix it...thats the big question. The first thing that Angelos needs to do (if he is not going to sell the team) is to hire, and give control to a proven GM. Lets assume that he has already dane that with Andy McPhail.
Now Andy needs to hire an kick ass executive team....in this case they would be a manager and a group of coaches. Andy needs to put together a group of on the field executives that can teach, guide, kick ass when necessary, and refuse to lose. These people need to teach hustle, fundamentals, how to win, passion, and PRIDE. The current group of player leaders like Roberts, Huff, Mora, and soon to be Nick Markakis are poisoned by losing.....game after game, year after year. In fact its so bad that Roberts career might already be toast. These players dont expect to win.....they expect to lose. And they feel that way because its the culture of the team.
So go get a kick ass manager, a new hitting instructor, a fresh pitching coach....you might even be able to fill some of the coaching staff with x orioles like Palmer, or Dempsey, or Ripkin. Andy needs to put together the "Dream Team" of coaching. Then continue to rebuild with the young core plus some free agents who understand and support the vision. Baltimore would be one of the last places i would want to go to if i were a free agent.......not because of the town, but because of the culture.
Please do me a favor and look at the Tampa Bay Rays.....look at what Jim Tracey has done with the Colorado Rockies.....how about Torre with the Dodgers.......good management can make a difference......great management can make a winner.

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Pete's reply: There would be some disagreement on who constitutes a dream coach, of course, but there is merit to what you're saying. The only cautionary tale here is the D-Rays, whose fans were ready to run Joe Maddon out of town two years ago. They thought he was just like Trembley.

No excuses indeed. The O's are one big pre-ordained excuse starting with AM's PLAN to lose and the media buy-in to that malarkey. I don't blame the players as much as I blame management. How can anyone put forth maximum effort over a long season when your so-called leaders predict failure at the start of the season and contin ually repeat that refrain during the season.

I'm not suprised at the mistakes that are being made. These same mistakes are made in A ball at Aberdeen. So the culture is there by DT to accept mistakes from his minor league coaching experiance. I'd sit their butts down when they make bone head plays. Oh thats right, you can't do that, then Melvin or another over paid veteran would wine to the media again about not playing! I'd rather have an average player that enjoys playing the game hustles and plays with a passion (remember Bill Ripken) than the quiet silent types that just go about playing the game.

ugh, this team makes me want to punch myself in my face more often than not. I know better times are coming but seriously...

I'm a huge (obviously) advocate of the plan and I think we'll do some damage in years to come. Losing to these sub-par other rebuilding teams over and over starts to sting.

F is not for Felix. We NEED to win these games. I don't know what it's going to take this year. I am happy about some of the kids getting their "cup of coffee" in the bigs and I hope it serves them better all future considerations upon them.

Or something. I'm a buyer regardless.

Read section 34 . he is right. I want to buy the best free agent first baseman and third baseman. I want Kevin Millar as a coach and a manager like lou Pinela.I think we need a hitting coach.

tune in Thursday to watch some hitting---no bats, no bases, just deadskins layin around...

Peter-
Thank you for steating the A.L. East argument doesn't hold up. And the youth of the team is not an excuse either. There are nine teams with younger rosters and of the nine, only the Nationals and the Pirates (Pitts. is .01 percent behind) have a worse record than the Orioles. This is talent based. I and don't blame the players. They are who they are. The blame for lack of success lies elsewhere.

"We went from being a team that couldn’t hit water if we fell out of a boat, to being a team that couldn’t do anything wrong," said Tettleton. "The difference? Chemistry. .. we bonded really well."

Plus, they had a "decent" manager.....

Another day of the "Trembley firing watch". This guy is almost begging to get fired, but he is also lucky, because we won't. He will however go down as the most incompetent manager in MLB history. You can't tell me that with the talent you have on this team you keeping redefining rock bottom.

My previous comment was not to imply the manager is he ultimate source of blame for lack of success.

Complacency in the Charm City? Yes, Pete's article mocking a town hall meeting was pretty funny, but the truth of the matter is people are still buying tickets and reinforcing the WRONG behavior! As long as they get what they say is 19,000 attendance, 19,000 people are condoning what they are doing, what they aren't doing and some truly pathetic professional baseball! EVERYONE should be held accountable, and maybe a Tea Party type event in front of the Warehouse MIGHT get their attention!

Hey Keith Rowe,
Maybe everyone is not a front runner and wants to support the team through the tough times.
Maybe they have more baseball knowledge than you and can see with all the young talent we have here and in the minors that the end of this pitiful losing is coming soon (perhaps as early as next year).
Go have a tea party of one...
....you are indirectly supporting the O's by being a part of an Orioles blog...did you ever think of that?
Do you never wtach their games on T"V.
If yes then by your own admission you ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Every time you watch you are supporting the team weather you admit it or not.
When McPhail doesn't "fail" will you be the first to admit that he knows more about building a baseball team that you could possibly understand...
I don't think he was part of 2 World Series teams by accident

I support Baltimore baseball, whoever plays here. I love having a team, although my life would certainly not lose all meaning if there was not one. But the organization we have here is so bad that we feel guilty if we don't "support" them. Remember we are there to watch them; they are not there for us to "support". If they want support, maybe they should look for a support group run by one of their sports psychologists.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can beat the Oakland A's. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can sign Mychal Givens. I think I can, I think I can - no you can't.

Hey O's fans,

Here is an idea. We should lobby Congress to extend the cash for clunkers program to MLB.

Slugger, What talent do they have that could have won this year? Remember this rotation is the most inexperienced in baseball. They have major issues with run producing and those two together say, we will take a beating and ask for another.

The off season should be interesting. When we had Sherill we only had three holes to fill now we have four. One ace pitcher, two corner infielders and one ace pitcher. So we will see how they attack these holes over the next 6 months. It should be interesting to say the least.

Really the managers job is to take the heat and the responsibility. We have had better managers fired for losing less than this. I am not saying Trembley would deserve it, he is only as good as his people. God bless him for keeping it together for as long as he has.

Yep... This kid is someone the O's dont need....

"They haven't really given me an offer to negotiate," Givens said. "There's no excitement for me. The only thing I was excited about was to play for the Orioles and play the position of Cal Ripken, who was the greatest shortstop I looked up to, and to play for the great fans there and to and play against the Yankees and Red Sox and hopefully beat them and win a World Series in a few years."

Maybe in a few years if hes a bust MASN can hire him LOL

Which was the worse swing, the 2-0 pitch high middle that Wigginton tried to jerk out of the park instead of hitting the sure sac-fly or the 2-1 pitch where he dropped his back shoulder and popped to shallow right?

You are telling me Brandon Snyder can't give us a more professional at-bat. I bet he even plays a better 3rd base than Wiggy if the O's would just let him play his "favorite position."

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Pete's reply: That may be tempting, but it's important to do what's right for Snyder.

Wonder why nobody seems to care about Berken, long term. We didn't want to bring up our youngsters until they were ready for fear of damaging them. How much worse can it get for Berken? He seems to be the sacrificial lamb. I'd rather Waters be used or give Andy Mitchell a start or two. Let Berken go back down and stop getting lit up. How is this helping him?

The O's had plenty of chances to win this game, but they didn't. The bigger problem is that they need a 1B, 3B and a DH. No way do they get all three, but I hope that the F.O., doesn't have any plans of making Wiggy, a regular position player. His act may work in the NL, but his swing for the fences and no plate discipline, have caused him to look foolish plenty of times in the AL. If the O's want to rotate him and Luke Scott at DH, fine because neither of those guys should be full time starters, but if the O's think that they will plug Wiggy at 3B with Luke at DH, and go out and get a 1B, this offense will suffer the same fate that they are suffering this season.

I know Pete, has said that the O's have bigger problems than to worry about getting an offensive minded SS like Hardy, and I agree that this team, most certainly does have more pressing needs, but at the same time, this team needs to improve it's offense and if one way to do it, is to get a SS that can hit for power and knock in runs, I don't think the O's have the luxury of ruling out any player that will help this club out. Having a SS, who might knock in 25 runs and hit around .260, isn't going to cut it when you have notoriously streaky hitters like Scott, Huff and Wiggy, in your everyday lineup. It truly is hit or miss with those guys.

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Pete's reply: Hardy was sent out, so I would think they could get him if they really want him.

Echoing the above comment in part...I'm intrigued by J.J. Hardy given his demotion by the Brewers.

Peter, in your opinion, is he a piece that could potentially help the Orioles in 2010?

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Pete's reply: Sure, though I don't know what's really going on with him and the Brewers.

Anybody catch the velocity Pedro showed last night?? He tossed in the 90s that’s better than some of our rookies! Too bad he wouldn’t have wanted to come to Baltimore guy could have showed our kids something he’s a winner.

Yea, the time for excuses is over. I am sick of, "it just was not our day," "they are just so good," and "we are unlucky." Everybody has hunted for a reason to justify losing all of these games the last twelve years and that is probably the biggest problem. Nothing changes, not even the excuses.

You have to believe this latest collapse is the one which does Manager Trembley in. I actually think it might be a relief to him. He looks defeated. I think he has done all that he knows, yet the results are still the same. I could not take it.

I really hate the unbalanced schedule and interleague play.
Why is there an unbalanced schedule? Every team in the league plays for the playoffs. Which includes a Wild Card team.

We get to face the AL East half the season. Which is fair to no one really. Except ESPN and FOX so they can divide up 18 Yankee vs Sox games. Where every series is 'make or break for the season.' Blah.

Give me more games where I can see the Royals, A's, Seattle and such. At least going into those games the O's don't go in with no hope.

Where's the outrage over dropping Givens? How high was this kid's ceiling? It sounds like he was excited to be an Oriole, and worthless Joe Jordan deemed him too much trouble to negotiate with.

Where's the bigger story? What happened here? What have the Orioles lost by missing the opportunity to sign this kid????

All of our rookies throw in the 90's. They may have had some days like when Tillman was pitching with a mild strain that he did not top that. Good to see Pedro win the game last night. But if was pitching for the Orioles last night he would have lost.

The offensive shortstop is not needed, especially if Mora and Huff had years like last year. Tampa Bay made it to the World Series with Bartlett at SS and he is not a offensive threat, Rollins had one of his worst offensive years and the Phillies won, the Dodgers made it to the playoffs with Angel Berroa playing short the majority of the time, Theriot had just one homer for the Cubs who were in the playoffs, the Redsox had Cora and Lowrie at Short and yes the Brewers had Hardy..They need to get someone that can power the ball that plays first base and third base. Maybe they will get one of the two. But if Mora and Huff stay they will have to file free agency and take a cut instead of exercising the club option. The team has not hit in the clutch this year and Scott and Huff are not consistent. The Orioles have a bunch of inexperienced starting pitching. You have to go a long way back in history to find a team that after June had this little experience in starting pitching. It is good to see the young guys here, but it would have been nice instead of signing some of the original members of the rotation (Koji, Hendrickson and Eaton) that they would have put there money into one staff ace instead of throwing crap up against the wall and hope it would stick. It sure would have been nice to see that this year with Burnett's 10 wins or Lowe's 12 wins. I know money is a huge issue with this club, but there is no way they will be competitive anytime soon going down this current path. If they do not address these issues it could be 2012 or 2013 before they get better, and what do you have then? An aging second baseman, a bunch of players filing for free agency or demanding trades. I know it is been said by AM "grow the pitching and buy the hitting", but that will not work until they get a staff ace and who knows if Johnson can close games. He has not had a lot of chances yet. So they may have to address four big holes.

I wish I could go to this Sundays game and hear the Andy McPhail and Dave Trembley show. See if they can do a song and dance like Robert Preston in The Music Man. "Oh we got troubles right here in charm city it starts with O ends with S, which stands for S____"

Sorry, but like a lot of you, I have gone far beyond patience this season. I never expected this team to win a lot, but I was hopeful that things would be better. If Huff, Guthrie and Mora could have performed like they did in 2008, it would have made a difference. But I am happy to see Reimold, Wieters, Bergesen, Hernandez and Matusz up on the big club. Sherrill has lowered his ERA from 2.40 when he was with the Orioles to 2.03 after last nights game. Some of these moves do not make logical sense to me, they got rid of Sherrill because they did not think they would be competitive soon. But they signed Koji at the age of 34 to a two year deal. Maybe I am missing something.

Groundskeeper,

It sounds to nme that before the O's drafted him they knew what it would cost to sign him. With that number known they picked him.

After he gets drafted it sounds like his cost went up. And that sounds like it went from a pleasent relationship into a sour one.

Hey pete finally one of your articles is a little negative for a change. I picked up the morning paper and 2 sun writers had articles that read SECOND HALF SWOON ALL TO FAMILIAR FOR O'S AND GOOD REASONS TO BE ANGRY i guess you must have gotten a advanced copy and figured you didn't want to be the only guy in town to keep making excuses for them. Oh well it's a start on your part to be somewhat negative but it looks like you stole it from my posting yesterday when i said that the lineup the A's put out on the field cpuldn't beat a good American leagion team. Let me break this down for all of you Kool Aid Drinkers , we have 48 games left is this season, yankee's 6 boston 5 tampa bay 11,texas 3 and california 4 this weekend. That is 29 games , how many do you dylusional fans think we will win. That leaves 19 games against whoever. We will be lucky to win 60 ball games this year.Dave t held a players meeting yesterday and you can see by the results how much impact he has on them. You all keep kidding yourself about the direction of this team.

Oh well we do not get Givens. I am sure that Jordan did his best on this. Just based on the recent success over the last several years of being able to sign the draft picks, who could complain. I am sure that Givens and his family weighed out what missing college would mean to the kid, and I am sure that they put a price on that. But remember Mussina was drafted twice by the Orioles so who knows. If the kid is the real deal in college and the Orioles keep playing the way they are now, they will have another opportunity in three years.

The team will improve next year because Dave T. & his band of misfit coaches will be gone. Two of the three slacker veteran amigos on the team will be gone as well, meaning the fundamentals will improve automatically. Hopefully the third amigo's head will be brought back down into the game with an infusion of new blood. I just hope that Andy can hire a butt kicker that can also steer these young guys in the right direction.

I was at the game yesterday and it convinced me Trembley needs to go at this point. When Bass came in from the bullpen, he managed to run all the way in and throw 5 or 6 of his warm up pitches with 2 infielders and 1 outfielder on the field. The rest of these clowns just came walking out to their positions by the last few warm up pitches, that kind of stuff shows the lack of discipline on this team. If he had any backbone he should've pulled every guy who was walking out onto the field, even if it meant playing pitchers in the field, cause those guys obviously just didn't give a **** yesterday.

Until yesterday, I was opposed to changing managers just for the sake of a change, however after attending the game with two of my sons my feelings are changing.

My 14 year old is really into baseball and pointed out that Brian Roberts jogged to first after hitting a grounder to a drawn in third baseman. As Roberts started to make the right turn into the dugout, the third baseman made a bad throw that was scooped up by the first baseman for the A's. When Roberts saw the bad throw he was briefly startled and took two qiuick steps, then slowed down. it could have been a very embarrassing moment and Trembley should have benched him immediately.

Trembley ran the team out of a 6th inning rally by starting the runners from first and second with one out and Huff, who had homered in his previuos at bat, at the plate. Huff took the pitch for a strike, obviously distracted, and the catcher threw out the trailing runner, Markakis, at second. Huff then struck out looking to end the inning.

Adam Jones let a high fly ball fall in for a single. The ball should have been caught. he was very nonchalant about it.

Felix Pie swung at the first pitch every time and popped out. He also caught a fly ball and hot dogged the ball with his glove to Itzuris before the out was really recorded. He should have been benched immediately.

Wieters falied to make a professional effort to block a pitch in the dirt, allowing a key run to score from third late in the game.

I have been to 20 games this year and this type of bad baseball has manifested itself all season,and is getting worse.

Dave Trembley appears to be unable to get the team to hustle and play hard, which is a manager's prime responsibility. As such, it is time for him to be replaced.

Gil,

I feel for your 14 year old. I have one of my own that age. If you look back they were not in pre k, the last time the Orioles had a wining season. Tough.

cb coach. Excellent point re: the ages of Koji/Sherrill...It really makes you wonder if McPhail really has a plan at all. Everyone knows you need a mixture of vets and youngsters but you have to make you have the right vets. Ther's no logical reason to keep guys aorund that either don't want to be here and/or can't compete and are bad influences. Sherill didn't fit any of those categories; Mora/Huff do and they are still here!
The more I think of it, MacPhail's plan seems to consist of stockpiling a bunch of pitchers(mainly from other teams) and then fill out the roster with a bunch of average players that would have trouble starting or even making other teams' roster. Yes, we have a few good players and a couple that may or may not pan out but at this stage of the rebuild, I was expecting more.
Like a creature of habit, I'll keep supporting the O's but lately it's bene like following a train wreck.

Trembley will be gone even if we win all remaining games. Why? He was never part of the MacPhail Plan.

That said, you can't blame everything on him. Yes he sucks and he can't manage in the Bigs; however these players are losers as well, from the first to the last. Getting paid millions of dollars should be enough motivation to give 100% every play. Getting paid to do what you've dreamed of your entire life, should be good enough reason to play hard. Playing for the same team that Brooks, Cal, Eddie, Jim and others played for, should give you enough pride to hustle and honor the uniform you're wearing.

Why don't they do all these things? Guarantied contracts. MLB should learn from the NFL: no guarantied contracts and institute a salary cap. Let these losers go on strike. Who cares. Bring in young kids who want to play for the love of the game.

Oh ... I almost forgot.

GO RAVENS!

Terry AM has stated dozens of times already what his plan is. His plan is to stockpile young pitching talent and grow them in our farm system until they are ready for the majors. While doing this with the pitchers he trimmed our payroll nearly in half because as soon as those pitchers are ready to start being effective MLB starters he's going to spend what he needs to, to bring in the necessary bats.

There's no point on spending $100 million a year now on great hitting if the pitchers aren't ready to live up to their side of the equation.

That being said BB, Tillman, Matusz, Guthrie and Hernandez are at the point where they are basically ready. It's sink or swim time for most of them. I think in the offseason you will see AM aggressively pursue bats and a frontline pitcher to anchor the rotation. Right now the orioles have $40-$50 million in free payroll if you compare it to where we were a few years ago.

Micah,
Sorry but I disagree. The pitchers will still take two years to pitch to expectations. So they needed a staff ace to mentor the young guys. We need to have a first and/or third baseman that can hit more consistent than the current ones. You do not have that in your system, so there are three ways of getting that free agency, trades or waiver claims. If you go by what is in your system, there is nothing at first or third that is close to being ready.

CB the plan has never been to grow our own bats. Andy has said time and time again that he will buy bats, but buying pitching is expensive and a crap shoot and he doesn't want to do it.

Also if you reread my post I said I think he'll pursue a frontline pitcher to anchor the staff.

BB and Hernandez have sub 4 ERA's as rookie pitchers in the AL east, if thats not up to expectations what are expectations? If we get a frontline pitcher there isn't room for all of them to begin with.

Also I disagree with you, Josh Bell looks very much like he could be an answer at 3B in our system. .305 avg, .395 OBP, .910 OPS in 100+ games in AA this year. He's hitting .435 since the Sherrill trade.

This collapse is demonstrating the true extent of the problem with this team. I don't think MacPhail really understands just how ingrained the culture of losing is with this bunch. The laziness on the field is getting to the point of absurdity. Their heads are not there, and after 12 seasons of garbage, fans have had enough, regardless of "The Plan." If the players we have now aren't playing hard, no one cares about pie-in-the-sky prospects. Why aren't we trying now?

The young ones are starting to play like the old ones. A drastic cultural change needs to happen, and soon, before we have another generation of trained losers.

Take a look at the remaining schedule. All the "Plans" and MASN cheerleading in the world will not be able to cover up the stink that the end of this season could potentially create, and the damage from finishing that way shouldn't be underestimated.

Pete - I hope you don't mind me giving props to your buddy Roch but his blog today is a classic. Had me laughing out loud several times. Check it out.

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Pete's reply: No problem. He cracks me up too.

CB and TerryB,

Really? You can't understand trading Sherrill and signing Koji? Here's one explanation. Sherrill netted them a good 3B prospect, which is something we desperately need. Koji costs them nothing but money and is a placefiller and bridge to Japan, he was signed as a short term solution to a short term problem (which has not worked out, big deal).

As for Mora/Huff, they are only here because no one would take them in a trade! Aaagh!

Maybe I'm not being fair. Maybe you're right. Andy's plan should have been to trade Mora, Huff, Koji and Jamie Walker for Roy Halladay. You know, that does sound like a good idea. I wonder why Andy didn't think of that.

FS,

Koji showed that he has good stuff but the O's knew he did not have the stamina to stay a starter for long. I would have personally found a better pitcher to bridge the Gap, but I can't say it was a bad move.

On the Japanese pitching subject. Perhaps someone can explain it to me. Why is it so important that we get pitching from Japan. Is there a shortage of pitchers in the US? Are Japanese pitchers stronger, better? Someone enlighten me please, because I haven't seen a Japanes pitcher who has more than one good season in MLB. Which is all it takes before the hitters figure you out. Case in point, Jeremy Guthrie. Yea I know is not Japanese, but you catch my drift.

Not that this would make a difference -- but I don't get why Huff at .254 is batting cleanup -- wouldn't Luke Scott be a better choice. Huff would seem a more natural fit in the 5th or 6th spot.

I believe it is time to start the weeding out of the older generation of players: Huff/Mora/Scott/Wigginton in the batting lineup and lets give the rest of the season to the guys who could be the future. Names like Bell and Snyder. That game yesterday was predictably bad. The things that happened were not good. It has been harped on alot, but Markakis has to have better anticipation then to delay his steal. If he did not know the play was on, don't go. He did not break right away. If he stays, there is always a chance he could have stolen on the next couple of pitches. Roberts had the base stolen whether or not Markakis broke.

The relief pitchers were not great either.

And part of that was due to the A's patient hitters and smart hitters. They were not overzealous in there at bats. And this team is made up of very young ballplayers. The Orioles should be able to do the same. Start bringing up more young ballplayers. Lets see what happens.

FS. I get the difference between Koji and Sherill. Koji was/is a starter who as brought in as a stop gap measure and mainly because of injuries, that didn't pan out. Sherill is a reliever who became a key part of the 'pen and while many argue that he's a set-up man posing as a closer, he did a good job while he was here. Bell may or may not be a long-term solution at 3B-who knows? The 'can't miss' tag was applied to 3B Craig Worthington, Ryan Minor and to a lesser extent Scott Moore and we all know how that turned out. I think we should have received more back for Sherill or not traded him at all. In summary, my point was that Sherill is the type of vet you hang onto but he's gone and the O's have to move on without him and find a closer and/or lefty set-up man because we have neither.
I'm not sure what kind of point you are trying to make with your sarcastic Halladay trade comments as no where did I suggest that I expected the O's to score a one-sided or even equal value for the past-prime time vets. The only point I was trying to make is that you can't rebuild with just young players. The vets that are still here are ill-suited and counter-productive. It's not all McPhail's fault as many of us-myself included felt Huff and Mora could sustain their usefulness for another 1-2 years. As it stands these guys have to go ASAP and somewhere we need to find veteran replacements that still have something left in the tank.

Micah. My point was that you can't just win with pitching; you need the bats too. Look around MLB, especialy the AL East, and most good teams have power and run producers in the middle of their lineups. We have severe holes in our offense and help isn't immediately around the corner. In fairness to McPhail, he probably didn't foresee the rapid decline in Huff and Mora but I think Wigginton was suspect right from the get-go and he'll be around in '10 and not likely going to suddenly find a stroke or plate discipline.
I'm not tyring to be too negative, just stating things as I see them and realistically, the plan to compete is going to take longer. That's OK I suppose because I've been following the Orioles since '64 but it would be nice to see some progress soon and at the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing some better effort and a few more second half wins.

TerryP,

I think you can win with pitching alone without having exceptional hitting. If you look up the stats, the O's scored more runs than the Rays in the 2008 regular season. They did however give up 200 some runs than the Rays pitching did. The rest is history. There is no secret to success in baseball. The O's know it. That's why we are stocking all the pitching we can get.

While I appreciate their service, I can not say that Dave Trembley and Terry Crowley give this team the best chance to win.

F8,

If you looked at my email you will notice that I quoted the McPhail statement "grow pitching, buy hitting". And really the fact is Sherrill is a proven major league ready and capable player (ALL STAR) and we did not get one in return. Fact Koji got a a 2 year deal and when we got him, he had been moved to the bullpen for the Japanese team two years before. But the Orioles decided he would be a number two starter for a MLB team. The Orioles have good young pitching, but really they do not have anyone that is going to pitch and win 15-18 games in a season in the next two years. So how do get someone if you do not have it ready in your own system?

As far as it goes with your remark about the trade good idea. Glad you suggested it.

Do you think we have the next Tim Lincecum in our system right now? Do you really think this kid that we just got for an all star closer is going to be the next all star third baseman? Really they have to get someone else, you should know that.

I think Wigginton, although not advertised as such, was picked up as insurance in case Mora flamed out or Roberts didn't re-sign. McPhail thought he could get by with a year (2010) of Wiggy at 2nd or 3rd and not be stranded. And while he is not a long-term solution, at 3 million/year he doesn't break the bank and can be traded next year.

Huff, if offered arbitration, will make at least 6.4 million and that is with the maximum 20% pay cut. And we all know the mindset of people who get their salaries reduced. He should NOT be offered arbitration as he will not qualify as a Class A free-agent (top 20% at his position) and maybe not even Class B (top 40%). He should be offered a 2 year/ 6 million dollar contract just like Wigginton, nothing more.

Luke Scott should be at first base, no matter how bad he looks right now to see if he can improve towards next year. Lou Montanez should be peniciled in as the DH/5th outfielder and the #2 hitter.

The Orioles should then focus on the PITCHING not the hitting as they have touted Wieters and Jones as middle of the lineup hitters. Jones thinks he is a perennial All-Star so it is time we treat him as one and introduce him to the middle of the lineup. Same with the once in a lifetime catching prospect.

Hi Cameron,

There is no arbitration for Huff, he has too many years of major league service. The Orioles wrote into his contract and both sides agreed that the club would hold the option for an additional year. The Orioles will most likely not exercise the option and Huff would file free agency, this holds true for Mora also.

The fact is Scott is not a first baseman, but that would be a good experiment along with Riemold.

You have to have the right mixture of pitching, hitting and defense, and I agree pitching comes first.

coach -

If you don't think Brian Matusz and Chris Tillman have a chance to win 15 games by 2011, you need to get out more.

If those two guys develop into half of what their talent suggests, they'll both be at least middle of the rotation starters capable of winning 15+ games with proper run support.

As far as the next Tim Lincecum goes, who knows? Matusz and Tillman both have the pedigree to develop into top of the rotation pitchers. I wouldn't expect either of them to rack up Lincecum-esque strikeout numbers, but I could see both of them putting up high 2.00 to low 3.00 ERAs if they develop to their full potential.

As for Josh Bell, who knows? Here are two minor league stat lines for you:

Player A: 312 ab, .327 avg, .487 obp, .465 slg, 6 hr, 37 rbi

Player B: 332 ab, .296 avg, .386 obp, .497 slg, 11 hr, 52 rbi

Player A is Kevin Youkilis as a 24-year-old in AA in 2003. Player B is Josh Bell as a 22-year-old in AA for the Dodgers this season.

So The only advantage Youkilis had over Bell was obp, and that was because Youk walked about twice as much and struck out 30 times less. And all that means is that Bell is a less polished hitter than Youkilis was when he was in AA. Oh, and Bell's two years younger as a AA player than Youk was.

And one more thing: Bell's hitting .435 with a .519 obp and a .783 slg% in his first seven games in Bowie. Not a bad start.

So will Josh Bell be an All Star third basemen? Probably not because I hear he's not too hot with the glove. Will he be an All Star because of his stick? Who knows? But he's got a solid chance based on his minor league numbers.

And one more thing: MacPhail did say "grow pitching, buy hitting". But when he said "grow pitching", I'm pretty sure he meant "grow starting pitchers". If you go about it the right way, building a good bullpen is about the cheapest thing you can do in sports. Sure, you can go out and spend huge bucks on a closer, like the Mets did with Francisco Rodriguez, but you can also find diamonds in the rough for around the league minimum, like the O's did with Sherrill. And like the A's did with Andrew Bailey. And like the Rays did with J.P. Howell and Grant Balfour. And like the Red Sox did with Manny Delcarmen and Ramon Ramirez. The list goes on and on.

And the O's pen is just fine without George Sherrill. They've got some solid big league arms in Jim Johnson, Cla Meredith and Matt Albers (and maybe Chris Ray and Dennis Sarfate) with guys like Kam Mickolio, Chad Thall, Josh Perrault, Jim Hoey, Ryan Ouellette and Wilfredo Perez on the way. And there will always be tons of bullpen guys floating around as FA's and waiver pickups.

Terry -

When were Ryan Minor, Craig Worthington or Scott Moore EVER referred to as "can't miss" prospects?

Minor was always the typical "all or nothing" hitter. In his first three years in pro ball, he hit 45 homers, but he also struck out 286 times while taking just 92 walks. In his minor league career he struck out more than 800 times and walked less than 300. Minor was ranked the 35th best prospect in the game by Baseball America before the 1998 season after a big year in '97 (24 homers, 97 rbi, .307 avg, .387 obp in A-ball), but quickly fell off the charts after a posting a .250 average and a .311 obp in AA. "Can't miss"? Hah.

Worthington was the same story as Minor. One beastly year in A-ball (15 homers, 105 rbi, .399 obp in '86) and not much after that. "Can't miss?" Nope.

And I have no idea where Scott Moore's name came from. "Can't miss?" Sure he's put up solid power numbers in the minors, but he's NEVER hit for a high average and he strikes out a ton: 716 strikeouts to 289 walks in his minor league career. He's still fairly young at 25, so he might have a fraction of a shot in the bigs, but only if he can bring his average up from .250 to .280 or so. "Can't miss"? Nope.

Thanks cb coach,

Someone kept mentioning arbitration for Huff and it stuck in my mind. I don't think we can keep coddling the young players into next year, and by bringing in more bats that's all we will be doing. We should be able to do better than this year with the following lineup.

1. Roberts S
2. Montanez R
3. Markakis L
4. Reimold R
5. Wieters S
6. Jones R
7. Scott L
8. Wigginton R
9. Izturis S

This is not a proven lineup but it is balanced and the 3-8 hitters all have 20+ homerun potential. There are no guarantees with free agents and it is a thin pool to start with. By the end of the year we hopefully see the likes of Bell & Snyder knocking on the door.

What we really need is to acquire the best pitcher who is willing to come here (not a stopgap) and let the rotation shake out and tell us where in the competitive process we are.

I am pretty sure Huff is arb eligible. Since there is no 'too many years in the league' clause in anything. And he currently still sits as a type A player. Even if he does not hit the rest of the year he'd be a type B because of last season.

Scott can easily learn to play 1B. O's played Hernandez there a few games last September. And a lot of 1B are moved to 1B. They don't start there. Teixeira, Huff, Cabrera, Bagwell, Youkilis and a few others.

Best example? Pujols was in LF before he went to 1B.

But really the only way to know is to put Luke out there for a week or two and let him learn on the job. Its not like he has never played 1B ever.

b..You can put any spin you want on it about the Orioles past failures/expectations at 3rd. We really haven't had much luck at that position since Brooks Robinson. Doug DeCinces was probably the best we had there. Mora gave us a couple of decent years but flamed out earlier than expected and rather than end his career on a bitter note, he should be thankful that the O's paid him 8 mill/yr.
I still think shouldn't have given up Sherill for a guy like Bell who may or may not be the answer but if he turns into the next Mike Schmidt(or even Graig Nettles) then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about that trade.

Cameron -

Lou Montanez batting second scares me. And what in the world is Jones doing in the 6 spot? Also, with five outfielders there, I'm assuming you've got Reimold and Scott at DH and 1b? Which one is playing first? It might work, but as an O's fan, you should know that learning first base isn't easy. Just ask Javy Lopez.

Here's my 2010 lineup:

Bring in Nick Johnson and Adrian Beltre on one year deals with options for 2011 in case Brandon Snyder and Josh Bell aren't ready. Johnson's a solid defender and a high-obp guy who's perfect for the #2 slot. Beltre's an elite defender with 25 homer pop who would fit in nicely behind Markakis. Adding solid defense at the corners to go along with Roberts and Izturis would be an immense help to the young pitchers. Johnson is injury-prone, so maybe give Scott a first baseman's mitt in spring training and see if he can handle the job.

1. Roberts, 2b
2. Johnson, 1b
3. Jones, cf
4. Markakis, rf
5. Beltre, 3b
6. Scott, dh
7. Reimold, lf
8. Wieters, c
9. Izturis, ss

The best pitcher who is willing to come here will probably be Doug Davis.

SMBaubitz. I don't think Scott is a solution at 1b. For one thing, he's not a consistent hitter and in hindsight, we probably should have traded him to Detroit when he was in the midst of a hot streak. Athough 1B is probably one of the easiest positions to play, there are challenges such as digging balls out of the dirt, holding runners etc and he's not that great even in LF.
I think we need to either sign a decent free agent, or reluctantly bring back Huff on an incentive-laden deal because sadly, we don't seem to have anyone MLB-ready down on the farm at a position which should be easy to fill.

and to b..I neglected to mention Cal as one of our past good 3B partly out of neglect and because I always kind of considered him a SS..Sorry!

Terry -

I wasn't putting any spin on anything. I was just stating the facts: Minor, Worthington and Moore were NEVER labeled at "can't miss" prospects.

It's obvious that third base has been a weak position for the O's for several years. I wasn't arguing that at all.

And on Sherrill: Who would you have traded him for? Any minor league player may or may not be the answer. Heck, any big league player may or may not be the answer. Would you like to be any more vague?

b,

Exactly. Sherrill is a nice player. I was not happy to see him go, but Andy is putting together a puzzle and we got what we could get for him. The rest of the league saw him as a nice 8th inning set up man, we got more new blood into the system. If you are not going to buy your way into contention, then you have to draft and trade your way there. You give quality to get quality. Hopefully we gave up a solid ML-ready reliever for a future everyday corner IF. Time will tell.

I take issue with assessing the plan as follows: "get rid of Sherrill, keep Koji." It's apples and oranges. Acquiring Koji costs your future nothing. To then lament that we are "holding on" to Mora and Huff is even more frustrating. Nobody would take them. Please stop everyone with the DFA talk. They aren't cancers on the team. They are blocking no one. Of course they keep playing until the end of the season. Then, look to free agency.

Nothing that has been done suggests any deviation from "the plan." The slight deviations I see were bringing Matusz up early (but he pitched his way to this level) and possibly signing Roberts instead of trading him (that was a fan appeasement move). Other than that, all I can say is full steam ahead.

1B has its finer parts but its still a spot where players that can't play other positions go.

Miguel Cabrera was a bad LF and 3B and he seems to be pretty solid at 1B.

And you can say Luke isn't consistent but his hot streaks are very very hot. He still is tied for the most HRs on the team. And he has come to the plate 100 less times then Jones. He is the only guy on the team with a slugging % over .500 and he has the highest OPS on the team.

And this is a team that keeps playing 3 corner infielders with slugging percentages under .410. Which is lower then Ryan Theriot. The light hitting SS from Chicago.

I'd live with Scott at 1B until Snyder is ready to be a major leaguer. They already missed their shot to sign Teixeira. Which has proven to be a mistake.

Also, can we stop with Sherrill was an ALL STAR closer. OK, maybe he was OUR closer and maybe he was OUR All-Star rep two years ago, but no one outside of Baltimore thought of him as an All-Star closer. We did not trade away Mariano Rivera, Jonathan Papelbon or Joe Nathan. He was very good for us but he was only an All-Star because every team has to have one. I wish him the best, but am really wishing the best for Bell. With Snyder at 1B and Bell at 3B the Orioles finally have two players to at least be hopeful for at those positions. I'm interested in watching Johnson and Ray settle the closer question among themselves.

b We can argue my ill-advised 'can't miss' tag but I do recall a lot of hype surrounding Minor and many here were ready to hand Scott Moore the starting 3b job after a solid spring training in '08. Worthington was a quick flash in the pan who stuck around longer than necessary.
As I have stated here on numerous occasions, I have gone on record as stating that I was opposed to trading Sherill-period...
My rationale was that he he brings a lot of positives-lefty, can close and set-up, is not that old at 31 and we don't have either a lefty set-up man or closer waiting to step in. There is also the fact that I like the guy, he pays his dues just to get to the bigs and wanted to stay in Baltimore..that;s the irrational fan in me!
Anyway, for the sake of continuing the argument, let's say Sherill demanded a trade etc and we were forced to deal him then I feel we should have been able to obtain a MLB player along the lines of a platoon type-for example, Detroit has guys like Thames, Thomas, Rayburn that can play OF & 1B and they are short in the 'pen so that trade could have helped both teams. I'm sure you'll shoot holes in this 'trade' too but at the sake of not being 'vague' go ahead!

Terry -

What would be the point of acquiring a platoon player? We've already got Scott and Wigginton. Besides, platoon players are guys who aren't good enough to play every day. Wouldn't you rather have a young guy with a chance to play every day in the future than an older guy who already had that chance and didn't come through?

Anyways...

-Clete Thomas is 25 and has never played first base. In fact, he's never played anywhere but the outfield. He's got some speed, but with Reimold, Jones and Markakis manning the outfield, where would he play?

-Ryan Raburn is 28 and has played 36 innings at first base this season. That's it.

-Marcus Thames is 32, horribly streaky and has played 236 innings first base in his career, mostly in 2007.

So what would be the point of trading a guy you didn't want to see traded for one of three players who a. don't really play first base and b. don't fit into the long term plan?

b I was only throwing out a few names to illustrate that Sherill isn't likely going to bring a everyday player and a fringe type platoon guy is the best MLB guy we could hope for. I suppose if we packaged him with someone like Luke Scott than maybe we could get a Brandon Inge who could play 3rd for us but he is also streaky but a good fielder.
I only brought up these scenarios because you asked what I expected toget for Sherill(even though I still was against trading him at all).
Anyway, I don't htink there's much point debating this further as Sherill is gone and we have a difference of opinion on the merits of that trade. At this point, I hope Bell becomes our everyday 3B for 10 years and I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong and McPhail(and you) were correct.
Nonetheless, I enjoy debating here; this site would be pretty boring if everyone had the same opinions!

B,

Sorry this is coming late, but I did not say those guys would not be good ever, I said the next couple of years.

ALL
As far as it goes with Huff and Mora. There is no Arbitration. The club holds the option and they will opt out. They will file for free agency. A player and club who cannot agree on a contract may agree to salary arbitration, provided that the player has enough service time in the majors. The following players are eligible for arbitration:

(1) Players with at least 3 but less than 6 years of service in Major League Baseball;

(2) The top 17 percent of players with at least 2 but less than 3 years of Major League service. These are known as “Super 2” players. To qualify as a Super 2, a player must have accumulated at least 86 days of service in the previous year. Historically, the cutoff point for Super 2 status is 2 years, 128 days of service, though the requirement has been as high as 2 years, 140 days in years past.