Fire Fred Manfra

Well Pie can at least play some more!!

I love how Jones plays but he needs to tone it down and save that stuff for when the birds make the playoffs. We need him to have a career here!

send Matusz back down anyone can see he's not ready yet.....if he was "ready" he surely would have a no-hitter..or at least a shutout
"Macfail" strikes again

If Jones would cut down his swinging at balls, and stop trying to pull every outside pitch, his numbers wouldn't keep sinking. Pitchers won't pitch him on the inner half as long he lets them get him out easily on outside pitches.

He needs to do what Pie has done.

Its funny that Buck and Jim Hunter are pitching Baez name out there for other teams to pick him up. Also calling out the Cubs having a bad season when the Orioles are 20 games under 500.

Strange happenings. Jones was o.k. to play Sat. but wasn't sufficiently recovered Fri. night to play a half-inning. That long fly in the ninth that Andino was unable to track down could have led to another blown victory. Great managing!
Speaking of which...the O's trade a 28 year-old outfielder in the AAA's hitting .329 in 80 games (a half season in the majors) w/ 24 steals for that famous "player to be named later". OOOH! Are the O's so overstocked in AAA that they need to get rid of a .300+ hitter or was that a move to make a place on the 40-man roster?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I don't think Gathright was on the 40-man.

What an impressive performance by Brian Matusz. He said he would be a different pitcher today and he sure was.

I thought Buck Martinez gave us an excellent day's worth of analysis in the booth.

What former Oriole pitcher did Matusz remind me of today? Dave McNally.

God Bless you, Dave.

Did Trembley just say "We don't want guys throwing 94-95 miles an hour"?

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Pete's reply: It may have sounded that way, but he was pointing out what a lot of us have been saying about Tillman and Matusz. They were overthrowing and that makes the ball straighten out. When Tillman had that day with a stiff back, he was throwing 5 MPH slower and the ball had movement and he learned something.

Pete,
Can you check if Remold has ever played 3rd?
That would be a solution to some things

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: That would be quite a stretch. He has never played 3B as a pro. But he has only played one game at 1B as a pro -- at Aberdeen.

Wouldn't it be something if Pie goes on to be a star and Jones never gets any better? Well Jones has had over 900 at bats in his short career and he still doesn't get it at the plate where as the only thing you can say about Pie now is he should be playing every game because his stats are doing the talking.

Pete i want to take the time to aplogise for using your blog to act like a kid. I can take all the bantering back and forth concerning the orioles whether we agree or disagree but when people come on here with comments that never pertain to the topic and just knock everybody it blows my mind. The kid pitched a great game today that is for sure.

Fire Davey Johnson........oh, wait.......nevermind.

I've said all along that Jones should be part of a package to get a true slugger in here in the off season.I don't mind Pie's production as a CF just not a corner OF.

Maybe Jones could catch a fly ball if he would stop blowing bubbles while in the middle of the play. I hate to say it but I think he is turning into a prima dona already. I hope somebody talks to him soon. He hasn't been very productive since he was named to the all star team.
I wish the Orioles would get Paul Blair to work with him.

how about

jones
patton
hernandez
johnson

for Gonzales

bill frederick is kidding right? Adam Jones? Really Bill?

Please, please, please, God: Do NOT let Matusz finish out the season with four or five more impressive starts. If there were fans ignorant enough to start calling Guthrie this year's "ace" after he went 10-12 last year, think what they'd do to a poor 22-year-old unfortunate enough to have a little success in a success-starved town.

Yet another well pitched game from one of our starters. The pitching is going to get it's biggest test coming down the stretch here, but I'm feeling pretty good about our young arms.
The offense is still up and down, but it's showing signs of life as well. I agree with your article today Pete, We're entering a real test period for this team. I don't expect them to win the majority of those games, but I think this team has proven it has enough talent, right now, to at least make a game of it against any team in the division. The test here is going to be one of their willpower and confidence. If they can come out of September with a respectable showing, say just a couple games under .500 against that schedule, I will spend the long cold winter months up here in New England looking forward to ST like I haven't been able to in many years.
Please Orioles, don't finish the season limping across the finish line like some crippled old mule, the way you have the last several seasons. Play hard, play for pride, deliver a message to the other teams in the division that you are not going to be the usual doormat, and that they had better be prepared for an even tougher division next year.

Well said Roy!

Pete,good call on Jones, I certainly felt he was done after the collision. He certainly gives it all and his progress will only be limited to future injuries. It will be interesting to see where Felix fits into this puzzle. I'm hoping to fly in from Newfoundland for a couple of games next month and look forward to seeing if he's still the real deal at that point. He's exciting to watch and add's the extra's which are almost non-existant in base-ball.

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Pete's reply: Be sure and yell up to me in the press box when you come in. I'll probably be walking by then.

honey
totally serious. not sure he will pan out. Gonzales has already proven himself
you are not going to get him for luke scott and ty wiggington and guthrie you know.

if you want a top quality run producer, you are going to have to part with some things you don't want to...
who would you give them? mora? ......it has to be equal value

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I agree with the notion that you would have to give up some real value for Gonzalez. Nobody is going to take your castoffs for one of the top bombers in the game, but I wouldn't trade Jones. I know a lot of people are frustrated that he hit the wall (figuratively) after his 19th home run, but he's going to be one of the real stars of the game. You can't give up one cornerstone for another when you need to make up as much ground as this team does in the AL East.

I don't know if Reimold, can play 1B or not, but it would be interesting to see since the O's could focus entirely on finding a 3B and DH. I think Pete, said it best, let's see what Felix does against the contenders in the next 3 weeks, but if Felix, is sill hitting the way he is hitting now, the Birds, would have to be crazy not to explore the option of Reimold at 1B.

Pete, quick question, does Kazmir going to the Angels, make it more likely that they will Lackey go? Lackey, seems to be just what the Doctor ordered for the O's, but he wont come cheap which is why, it would be nice to take a guy that you have like Nolan and put him at a position of need like 1B because you could you use that money to up the ante for a guy like Lackey without having top spend money on a 1B plus it would cut down on Nolan, having to run around in the OF which has to help with a sore knee, foot, etc.

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Pete's reply: I think the Angels try to keep Lackey, but the O's need to make a play anyway. You never know how a free agent quest will turn out, and getting a big-time pitcher would give them the flexibility to offer one of the young guns (Tillman, Arrieta or Matusz) in a package if the Padres do make Adrian Gonzalez available. Of course, all this is borderline fantasy at the moment. I don't even know if Andy MacPhail feels like the team is at the point where he tries to make that big push.

First it's, let's start rip McPhail for adding Pie instead of starting the season with Montanez. Now it's, let's trade Adam Jones and give Pie the center field spot, after everyone was giving Jones props with how hot he started the season. Are you kidding me? God, I can not stand Baltimore fans. I hope Joe Flacco starts playing like Boller so you guys can start cheering when he get's injured.

I think it is time to call Jones out. He was just spectacular in the first half of the season, but since the all star break he has pretty much stunk it up. He had a brief streak when he was hitting a homer/game, but it was like he would only have one prodcutive at bat /game. He looks totally undisciplined at the plate, lunging and waving at everything, especially low pitches. He also seems to have developed a fairly self-satisfied aura about himself. I hope he realizes that all he has accomplished so far is to let people see what could be. If he doesn't get his act together, he will be a has been that never really was. He shouild take a page from Pie's book , tone down his act, and work to get better. He needs it. If he doesn't Pie may have his spot as the starting center fielder this time next year.

Wayne HIcks

bobby,
you don't really get it. i never ripped macphail one time. I'm not ripping jones. I believe Macphail knows what all of us know and can see. These young pitchers (bergesen, tillman, matusz) look like the real deal in a lot of ways.
This team needs a legitimate 4 hitter to contend in the east. the only way you get one this year is through a trade. He went hard after Tex last year and we still have the same problem.
i think he's been stockpiling all these pitchers so that a couple can be used in a trade for someone like gonzales.
No one is cheering for Jones to be injured or trying to run him off cause he's had a bad week or two.
The thing is, who do you give up to land Gonzales? I'd say right now, I'd keep Pie and package Jones. To me there is more upside with Pie and Jones blows too many bubbles and seems cocky at times. that's just me.

Pete,
assuming we will not part with Bergy, Matusz Tillman

what do you think could land Gonzales? any package you care to speculate with?
I have to believe Andy is thinking this way especially with the success of those three lately not to mention jake and erbe etc...

I wasn't addressing you specifically, it's the general complaining about Jones that annoys me. I understand the need for a big bat, but I don't agree dumping on a guy who's hit a tough stretch for the past month. I'm reading people saying this is as good as he's going to be based on a one month slump. That's just ridiculous. Jones wasn't as good as he was at the beginning of the season, and he isn't as bad as he is now. But you can not overlook the 19 HRs and 70 RBIs he's had this season.

The first thing that popped into my mind was that he is not Wllie Mays.

Samuel needs to be in the dugout and not in the third base coaches box.

bobby,
i agree, i was even standing by guys like baez when everyone thought he should be released. hes had a pretty decent year, not great but very good in spots.
what do i know... i like boller and hope he does real well
I just think if you say between markakis jones reimold and pie....which would you part with in a trade for a big bat for me it's jones and not just because of the past two weeks

Alright! Those who keep beating the drum on Gonzales or Prince trade for the kitchen sink should stop now.

First of all you don't trade 5 players for a fat guy. Second, Angelos is cheap. Don't you ever forget that. This is the guy who traded Huff to save two million dollars, and will probably sign him again for 2010.

You've already seen the closest thing to a power hitter/franchise player that Angelos will everl sign. His fellow Greek compatriot Nick Markakis.

What makes you think that he will sign one of these to fatsos when he didn't sign Texeira?

Jones would love to go to SD hes from there.

Slugger,

Texeira never wanted to sign here. That had nothing to do with Angelos.

Bobby,

Oh please! Yeah, Texeira did not want to play for the team he grew-up watching, 15 mins away from where his family lives. Who would want that?

The fact of the matter is that the O's offered him a 7 year 148 million dollar deal, when he had turned the very same deal down 2 years prior when the Texas Rangers made it. His agent had made it clear 8 year deal around 20-22 million dollars. And that's exactly what he got. The O's offer was laughable to say the least. You are telling me Tex would have refused that kind of money to play for a team where he would be the number ONE guy as opposed to number THREE guy?

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I don't think you've been paying attention. Andy, Boras and Teixeira all have confirmed that Tex would not sign with the O's and told them so after the first Orioles offer. The O's were willing to offer more and were told that Tex did not want to use them as leverage so they shouldn't make a new offer. And, while we're on the subject, not everybody wants to play near home. It's a pain in the butt to play at home and lots of guys who have done it tell other guys in the clubhouse that it's better to keep their distance from home or they'll never have a moment's peace.

hey slugger,
come back to reality...people do what they want to do...since tex is in new york that means he wanted to be in new york...the fact that you want to even rehash that old argument is beyond silly...

the "fat guy" is a gold glove first baseman who waqs voted by the gm's to be one of the top 2 underated players in the N.L.

Babe Ruth was a "fat guy" too...worked out pretty well for him
Boog powell was a "fat guy " too....not a bad career for a porker.

slugger,
one more thing ANGELOS DIDN"T TRADE HUFF....you do understand that right? He's not directing AM'S moves....he's signing off on them AFTER Andy agrrees to terms....if you don't get that...well what can one say

I think you may throw stuff out there like that just to stir the pot huh?

Slugger,

I was with you up until "second." Angelos is pretty cheap, but they've gone after guys in the past like Belle and Konerko. Konerko took $5 less to stay with the White Sox (burn), but the money was out there.

I also don't think bill is too far off. I'm not saying Jones should be shopped, but if someone else mentions his name for a marquee kind of player, he shouldn't be untouchable. Plus I'd rather trade him for a player with a big name rather than a player to be named (which could happen if we aren't winning in two years).

Slugger, do the math on 7 for 148. That's 21+ per year. So the O's were a year short on the contract... Had Tex wanted to sign here, wouldn't his agent have made a counter-offer to the O's for an extra year and mil more per? I mean, the two offers aren't that different, so the O's might very well have accepted that counter.

Sorry, but Tex wanted to part of the O's. He had never made the playoffs, and didn't want to be a piece of rebuilding effort. He proved that by rejecting the Nationals 8 for 200 offer.

You have to remember that baseball players are people too. And they may value things differently than you do. Just like I'm sure you know people in your own life who value things differntly from you. So you can't just assume that because you would want to play in your home state everyone wants to play in their home state.

----------------

As for Prince, I'm all for writing him a blank check at the end of the 2010 season and letting him fill in the amount. The guy is 25 and has 150 HR's. And if you've watche him play first, you would know that he's far more athletic than your "fat" description implies.

But I hate to agree with you that we shouldn't be rushing out to trade for him. With all the money that's coming off the books this year, there's no reason not to just wait and spend it next winter.

Bill,

Beyond silly? You want to go there? You're the genius who wants to trade Jones. You'd probably package Markakis and Weiters too, wouldn't you?

Tex went where he got more money. Plain and simple. Don't tell me he didn't want to play here. If he had gotten the money he wanted here, he would have played here. Simple economics.

Today's ball players think money first, championship next. We like to believe it's the other way around, but it is not.

slugger

yes on jones in order to get what we need on offence you have to part with someone valuable...

why don't you come up with who YOU might trade or who we should be looking at as free agent next year or do you just love to criticize angelos so much that you don't want to do anything

was in favor of trading bedard and miggy also

no on weiters...it's not just "trade anybody"

tex???? done with that get over it

Alright! Those who keep beating the drum on Gonzales or Prince trade for the kitchen sink should stop now.

First of all you don't trade 5 players for a fat guy. Second, Angelos is cheap. Don't you ever forget that. This is the guy who traded Huff to save two million dollars, and will probably sign him again for 2010.

You've already seen the closest thing to a power hitter/franchise player that Angelos will everl sign. His fellow Greek compatriot Nick Markakis.

What makes you think that he will sign one of these to fatsos when he didn't sign Texeira?

Posted by: Slugger | August 30, 2009 8:50 PM

Without a doubt, Slugger, you are an idiot. Guess you haven't read about the salaries paid to BRob, Markakis, the (at the time) record signing bonus for Matt Wieters, all the money paid out to this year's draft picks. Yet you still say Angelos won't spend money. You are nothing but a MORON. Plain and simple. Your knowledge of baseball is about the equivalent of Paris Hilton's knowledge of quantum physics. Go back under your rock idiot.

Do you know if Chris McAlister was picked up by any NFL teams since his release from the Ravens?

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Pete's reply: I don't believe so. My understanding is that he's still rehabbing a sore knee and might pop up with someone in the next few weeks.

Hey Peter, is it me or is Adam Jones getting to be a bit injury prone? Also seems to be getting an attitude too. Hope not.

Have to laugh at all the "experts" (see slugger for one) who always blasted Pie, Wieters and MacPhail or as he spelled it "MacFail". Bunch of whining losers.

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Pete's reply: Adam is a tall, lithe player with a long body,which may make him more vulnerable to some back soreness, but I don't' think you can say yet that he's injury prone. Attitude? I actually like his attitude. He hates to lose and he has no patience for guys who are satisfied with losing. Yes, he's a guy who shows a little more swagger than his stats probably deserve, but he's a young guy and he's going to be very good, so I'm going to stay on the AJ bandwagon.

Facts,

I'm so glad I made you get your panties in a bunch. Why don't you go ahead and put your "I heart Angelos" t-shirt on and your favorite Angelos knee pads on and suck a golf ball threw a garden hose, you Peter-puffer.

wow. a lot of these people are terrible fans. pie is just on a hot streak, and some of you want to make him a starter over jones? are you kidding me? remember back in may when jones was on a hot streak of his own, hitting around .370? how many of you wanted to trade him then? teams will figure out how to pitch to pie just like they did to jones. hot streaks and slumping happens to everyone. i'd love to get gonzalez or fielder(preferably fielder) but not at the cost of one of our cornerstone players(and no pie is definitely not a cornerstone player). i'd say maybe arrieta, pie, snyder, erbe and/or zagone, hopefully pie finishes strong to get his value higher, and maybe, juuuust maybe, we can get a deal done.

blancione,

In regards to the wager, I was thinking a little lower than $100 to keep things on the light side, but that'll work.

On a related note, has anyone seen the new player/pet calendar the Orioles just put out? It's actually being sold in a partnership with the MDSPCA. You can get it at Orioles.com, area PetSmarts and on the lower concourse during the homestand. As a bonus if you're at the game Wed or Sun, you can tell my wife the mistake she made marrying me...well if you buy one first. I also linked my name to the O's site so you can see it.

Hopefully you'll pardon the shameless plug Pete.

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Pete's reply: Shameless plugs are welcome as long as they are for a good cause. I don't think you're wife made a mistake marrying you, though she might have made a mistake not marrying me.

Interesting thought Bill Frederick. If I was the Orioles GM, I would not even think about that trade. Trade away your center fielder, who would play center? You ready to throw Pie in there after a few dingers and getting his average up to .270? Interesting thought though considering Tony Gwynn Jr has been playing center field for the Padres.
San Diego needs starting pitching, their bullpen is pretty good, but Patton, Hernandez and Johnson? That is way too much. Do not get me wrong you have to give to get something, really I do not see it to be an easy thing to trade for top line players, especially if the Orioles have to give up what they have built the last few years. To me I would think that Jones is one of those guys that would be untouchable and I am sure McPhail would not part with him. Face it the guy has too many tools.
I really do not think the Orioles would consider trading any of the following but I could be wrong;
Roberts
Markakis
Jones
Matusz
Tillman
Bergesen
Patton
Arrieta
Johnson
Wieters
Hernandez
Mickolio

Remember the GM McPhail said buy hitting grow pitching. I am sure that would be still the direction that the team will go.

Also Slugger and others, Bottom line on Tex is the Orioles put a lot on the plate for him, it was not in the stars, he just did not want to play here, wanted to go to the big apple and win a world series, play were he is surrounded by players like Rodriguez and Jeter. It is just too bad he did not come clean and say that from the beginning. Really 21 million a year is a heck of an offer, especially in this economy. The Yankees are on a different island all together, they look at the ROI for Tex to win the world series, in Baltimore they were looking for fans in the seats. The big three in their infield make more than the entire Oriole team, it is just not fair!

oscar salazar was 7-10 with a walk against Florida this weekend.

aubrey huff, 2 for 27 since hes been with detroit, lol. he's a proven what again? oh yeah, talent!

pie hasnt hit well against lefties, though he had the sac fly and homer against buehrle when jones went out of the game in chicago. id like to see him face lefties more to see if he can handle them better now than he has historically (8 for 67, .119BA)

correction, huff was 1-3 today, not included in above, so he is 3-30 with Detroit.

Bill Frederick

I am glad you raised the issue of trading Jones. I know its not a popular viewpoint and yes it is easy for fans to be angry about saying such an EVIL thing but you have to think of the rebuilding process first before individual players. Jones is a great player but we seem to have a bit too many outfielders right now and it looks like we can only get value for either him or Nolan. If we are going to keep Pie long term Jones might have to leave because he does seem to have a developing ego problem and is not producing this second half also he’s kind of a jerk to Pie in the field. I don’t want Jones to go but I would rather him leave than not addressing other issues we need like a power hitting corner to support our young pitchers and Guthrie. I don’t think we can get attached to any non Greek players on this team because anybody can go at anytime.

Outfielders
NO. NAME POS BAT THW AGE HT WT 2009 SALARY

10 Adam Jones CF R R 24 6-2 210 $435,000
21 Nick Markakis RF L L 25 6-2 195 $3,350,000
2 Lou Montanez DL LF R R 27 6-1 200 $400,000
18 Felix Pie LF L L 24 6-2 170 $410,000
14 Nolan Reimold LF R R 25 6-4 205 $400,000
30 Luke Scott DH L R 31 6-0 210 $2,400,000

We are loaded with outfielders that are all pretty good. Having Pie play for Jones or someone else for Nolan is not going to make us lose any more games than normal.

PS this is what small market teams do. They get players make them good then get rid of them for more. Nothing personal yes people get mad at teams like the Marlins but it’s a proven formula to keep your team on a pathway to be competitive every couple years without breaking the bank. Does is suck for fans? Of course! But this is a different approach the Orioles should pursue.

Slugger,

If Tex is so sentimental, why didn't he re-up with Atlanta? He went to school there, he met his wife there, he has as much connection there as he does to Maryland. And as someone else mentioned he also rejected more years and more money by the Nationals. If you want to believe that Tex would have signed here if we offered more money, you're live in dream world.

The Padres, have said on more than one occasion that everyone is available except Adrian Gonzales, but even if they traded him, we would have to give up too much to get him. Kevin Kouzmanoff, is the guy we should target. He is 28, a good fielder with power in a ridiculously huge park so those #s will go up even more in Baltimore plus 3B, is really where you can't try to get someone to fit. I am not saying I want this to happen, but the O's could do some tandem with Wiggy and another free agent or Scott, if he's not traded, but 3B, is a key position.

I am a huge Melvin Mora fan, but without a doubt, it's time for him to leave. Kouzmanoff, could be the 3B here for the next six-seven years and he wont cost nearly half of what it would take to get Adrian. I would prefer they go after Chone Figgins, but no way would he want to come here plus if the O's lost out on him, the next best alternative in free agency, would be Adrian Beltre, who is great will the glove, but not so much with the bat since he left the Dodgers. Beltre, would be another stop gag move along the lines of Kevin Millar, while Kouzmanoff, would be part of the core along with BRob, Markakis, Jones, Reimold and Wieters. That's a pretty good group of guys to have for years to come.

I am not sure who said it on here, but I agree 100% in that you have to give up some good players to get some good players because not everyone is as dumb as the M's.

Adam Jones is from San Diego, Adrian Gonzales is from San Diego. And although the Tacqueria on Eastern and Arcos' outdoor patio on Broadway remind me of Mexico the rest of Baltimore is unlikely to appeal to Gonzales. So, we can trade away our talent and still be faced with losing him in two years.

The only way we get Fielder or Gonzales long-term is to show competitive signs of life and then outbid all comers during free-agency. And still it would have to be a Miguel Tejada type scenario where the player wants money and all the bigger-spending teams are locked into their current first-baseman.

We can call Angelos cheap but he is more likely to want to play in FA than McPhail this year. First of all there are no difference makers out there in 2010 that deserve 7-figure contracts. Second, McPhail needs to see if Jones, Reimold, or Wieters are capable of holding down the 4th or 5th spots in a major-league lineup. He will have a much better idea this time next year. That pushes the decision to 2011 when the projected 1st basemen include Gonzalez, Paul Konerko, Carlos Pena, and Adam Dunn. Among third basemen and starters will be Brandon Inge, Cliff Lee & Roy Halladay. That list doesn't even include Joe Mauer who Minnesota must pay. Anyone who has their salary structure under control and is willing to spend the money should be able to sign one of these players.

The current team is in too much flux and the young players need to define themselves before the O's can identify their true deficiencies and start picking up big unmovable contracts. -

Wow, now you want to trade adam jones. Adam Jones is the definition of a guy you build with not trade away. It's only his second big league season, he was 23 for most of it and just turned 24. At age 23-24 he's thus far put up a line of .280/.339/.801 with 19hr, 83r, 70rbi, and 10sb while playing plus defense in a premium up the middle position. He's still three years away from what is considered a baseball players peak, and he's not even arbitration eligible until after 2010. YOU DON'T TRADE GUYS LIKE THAT! Sorry for the all caps but you people need to wake up. Trading him straight up for Gonzalez would be a catastrophe for the O's. A great stat site called Fangraphs recently did a list of the top 50 most valuable players and adam jones clocks in at #19. Gonzalez #45. Gonzalez is at his peak right now, Jones is just scratching the surface of his own. Lucky O's fans will hopefully get to watch him for years to come, I hope they know enough to appreciate him.

JD
fangraphs? really?
and jones is more valuable than Gonzales?
and you believe that?
trading him straight up would be a catastrophe?
that's funny in a sick sort of way.
I hope you are not secretly an assistant to the GM

every GM in baseball (here and in Japan) would trade jones straight up for Gonzales.

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Pete's reply: Not every GM. Some would. Some others would recognize that Gonzalez -- if he continues the way he's going -- is going to command $180 million in a couple of years as a free agent. Jones is a CF who likely will be a 30-homer, 100-RBI guy for a long time, without costing that much and he's tied to the O's for at least four more years. There's more to the value equation than the extra 10 homers and 20 RBI every year.

Interesting how some of you (just some) want to trade away a good fielding outfielder with the potential of Jones. Fact is this year it does not matter on wins and losses. He was an All Star. Really do not care what town he was born in, he is an Oriole now, and hope he stays one. Just hope that he and the center-field wall become better friends hate to see him end up like Fred Lynn or Ken Griffey Jr, sometimes winning the battle against the wall but when they lost it cost them a lot of games.

I am not sure who will be free agents next year. Really not even concerned, want to see this season end before even thinking about that. Trades for big name proven players will tear this organization apart on the top prospects they have. so they will make minor deals but anything other than that forget it.

I also think that a lot of people on the blogs do not think the Orioles are doing enough to be competitive. I cannot blame anyone for thinking that way, especially when the home town hero did not sign and the ace pitcher that has a wife from this town did not come here. Those guys are good, but the reality is that would have caused about 38 million to be spent this season on two players and what would have been the end result, maybe 4th place instead of last. I look forward to the last month with players auditioning for 2010 against teams that are competing for this year. Then let the off season deals fill some big holes for the Orioles.

Guys you have to think about what the needs of the teams are. Any player could be subject to trade especially outfielders. First off we have plenty that can play the position for the orioles and in the minors. Also even if we didn’t have any it is easier to obtain outfielders that infielders or pitching. Power bats cost a bit but that’s what the team needs desperately to add in to the lineup to make everyone else better.

Peter

Heard the Pirates upped the offer to Sano today. Have you heard anything else?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Yes, but I'm keeping it a secret.

It's funny to read all of this crap coming from you 'Baltimore-rons' turining on Adam Jones.
The one guy that is giving 100% to the team.
You wanna talk about stats slipping up and down during the season???
Look at Brooks Robinson, Cal Ripken & Boog Powell's careers.
And then ask yourself...
where would the Orioles' "Hall Of Fame" be without these historic roller coaster season hitters.

Just wanted to point out how well the starting pitchers have fared going back to August 19th:
Matusz: 3 G, 17.1 IP, 8 ER, 18 K
Tillman: 3 G, 16.1 IP, 6 ER, 6 K
Berken: 2 G, 10.2 IP, 4 ER, 7 K
Hernandez: 2 G, 10 IP, 5 ER, 8 K
Guthrie: 2 G, 14 IP, 2 ER, 7 K
It will be interesting to see how they hold up versus better competition in the coming weeks and as they extend into career high innings pitched. As a group, they are definitely on one of the best runs of the year!

Jones is certainly having a rough second half... but no rougher than many other players on this team have had at points.

The fact is, Jones still hit well for the first 3 months of the season, very well. And while Pie might be the hot bat right now, he hasn't been hot for 3 months. So maybe he'll hit the 3 month mark and call it a day too.

Jones is this team's CF and that's all there is to it. He has just as much potential as Pie still left to explore.

This is just plain stupid.

Seriously, where did all the Brian Roberts haters go the last six weeks? Who will all of these fans turn on if Jones gets hot the next four weeks?

Dan

People that are open to a Jones trade do no hate Jones but the Orioles have too many OFs and Jones seems to make the most sense to be traded for more pieces of the puzzle.

Until this team gets back to at least 500 there is going to be heavy tinkering and trading so get used to it.

Tex would have came to Baltimore............... If the Angelos era never happened. He wanted to come play for the Orioles teams that Angelos was never a part of. No amount of money could have changed that and Angelos scared him from coming to the team he grew up with. Yes he liked Don Mattingly but he was not a Yankee fan.

I have said it once and ill say it again this will forever be the ultimate failure of the Angelos era.

Hey Dan

Are you the nerdy guy from the Adam Jones MASN commercial? Its okay man ease down..

actually Dan, Pie has been hot for 3 months.

.340 average since june 1

It's not his fault that he only got 15 ab's in June and 19 in July - he was 12 for 34 in those two months.

It's probably embarrassing to Trembley that he's performing so well despite being buried for two months. Maybe thats why DT is so quick and vehement in pointing out his mistakes. If Huff wasn't traded and Jones didn't hurt his back Pie would still be gathering rust.

As to Adam Jones, its not just the slump, its the nature of and the duration of the slump thats troubling. Wild swings at terrible pitches, pretty much since he was named to the all star team.

There seems to be a correlation there; i hope he turns it around this year.

These notions are just ridiculous.

Yeah, extend Pie's numbers to June 1 and that changes everything. He hit 467 in 15 June at bats. Then hit 263 in 19 July at bats. We shouldn't even be counting those at bats towards his current hot streak. 34 at bats is about 10 games worth of play.

If you want to blame that on Trembley, that's ok. But I would say that I'm not jumping on a guy's bandwagon after 15 at bats - whether they were good or bad.

Jones' slump has been long and painful, certainly. I'm not denying that.

I'm denying that trading a 24 year old with just under two full seasons of play is the right move. I'm denying that Pie's room for growth is any more than Jones'. I'm denying that Pie can be considered a guaranteed lock now thanks to 63 August at bats.

Jones might not be hitting... but it's all perspective. Jones, even in August, is striking out less frequently than Pie and walking more frequently. Jones' bat will come around. He is not a perfect player. But he is much further along than Pie and I'm inclined to take the player with the better track record.

Sorry, forgot one more item...

While it may seem like Jones' slump lines up with his naming to the All-Star team; that's not true.

In fact, his slump started before that. Well before that. Jones' June was by far his worst month of the season - hitting just 229 with 1 HR and slugging well under 400.

That certainly doesn't defend against the slump. I'm not defending against the slump. I'm defending against some wild accusation that Jones has become too comfortable and too cocky thanks to his wonderous All-Star appearance. It's just silly.

1. Slugger you have no idea what the Orioles offerred. You have seen numbers that Boras leaked for his own purpose to a media eager to print anything.

2. IF you believe the media reports, AM told the Boras team he was making a first offer and to come back to him as talks heated up. Again, IF you believe the media reports of the time, he was told not to bother holding his breath.

3, The Orioles reportedly made the first offer and there was no reason to bid against themselves

4. Tex might have grown up going to Oriole games but he went to them wearing a Yankee cap and Don Mattingly jersey. And if you think those warm and fuzzy feelings exceed those of winning the world series which the Yankees have a better shot at feeling than the Orioles do in any given year, think again.

5. There is as much anecdotal evidence of Angelos spending big money as there is that he is cheap. In order for him to be able to unload Huff to save 2M he had to first sign him at the cost of 8M per year. Sort of a two edged knife in terms of your argument.

6. So the Orioles didnt come in exceeding Tex's asking price before anyone else had even made an offer? Guess what? I dont offer the sticker price on a car either.

Your arguments are petulant, argumentative and lack substance.

Peter

Heard the Pirates upped the offer to Sano today. Have you heard anything else?

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Pete's reply: Yes, but I'm keeping it a secret.

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Not cool Pete lol

Mark Teixeira makes a living padding his stats in ridiculous ballparks like Arlington, The Launching Pad, and now the "new" Yankee Stadium and then has his pimp Scott Boras hire him out to the highest bidder. Get over it! And give the MVP to the guy leading the league in batting average, on-base percentage, and slugging percentage -Joe Mauer.

CBC, Dan, etc-

No one is untouchable. Not Jones, not Wieters, not Markakis, not Matusz. I would trade Jones for Gonzalez in a heartbeat. I would trade Wieters for Mauer. I would trade Markakis for Pujols. I would trade Matusz for Halladay. Once you agree to that, it is just a matter of degree until you get to a package deal like the ones suggested. If you dont like the deal suggested (and I think many are classic "fan-dumb") that is fine, but dont object because some guy is supposedly "untradeable" because EVERYONE is, and should be, tradeable.

As for a trade tearing the team apart, that might be a good thing, but I dont think it will happen. Guys like Tex or Gonzalez who are impact hitters, plus fielders, fill several huge needs on this team, PLUS are young enough to fit in with our core, are worth going after. This is not throwing away "the plan". The plan all along included buying the needed bats. If it is a year early, so be it.

Slugger-

~~Facts,

I'm so glad I made you get your panties in a bunch. Why don't you go ahead and put your "I heart Angelos" t-shirt on and your favorite Angelos knee pads on and suck a golf ball threw a garden hose, you Peter-puffer.~~

Wow, juvenile, belligerent, homophobic, why dont you throw in a few racial slurs while you are at it.

Where can one get that I heart Angelos T-Shirt?

What is with the sudden Pie bandwagon? the guy has strung together a couple of decent weeks and we're trading Adam Jones and moving Riemold to 1st base???

Give Jones a chance, he is only 23. He will learn to stop swinging at low and outside breaking garbage (remember, Raffy P swung at the same junk and hit 550 hrs)

O's fans are nuts.

Horseshoe, all of those guys are untouchable that you listed. Do you think the Twins are going to offer Mauer? The cards Pujols? Your argument is ridiculous to put it bluntly. The Orioles have nothing to trade to gain a stud player without compromising the work they have done to build a young staff. So if they address the need for a run producer this off season, they will have to buy it. But in no way will you see the guys you have listed traded. Surprised you did not mention Andino and Mora for Jeter and Rodriguez while you are on your rant.

It is funny one minute you post something that I give you credit for, and I think he really gets it, then something like this last post. I know you are trying to make a point, I get that. Just like the statement that everyone has a price, everyone can be bought. But really you have to have solid reasoning behind your statement.

Lucky Horseshoe...

You're entirely right. I'm not arguing against trading Jones on the grounds that he is or should be considered untradable or an undeniable part of this team's success.

I am more defending Jones against silly criticism. If we could get the likes of Adrian Gonzalez for Adam Jones; I'd probably have to make that trade too. But the thoughts that Felix Pie or any other prospect we have is as good/better/a sure fire fix are just preposterous.

Jones is not invaluable. But he's not worthless; and he's only underachieving relative to the glory we all saw in his first two months this season.

Jones seems to play a Griffey Jr. type of game. Good bat, speedy, goes all out on the field (Griffey broke his wrist leaping at the wall, Jones popped himself in the mouth leaping for a HR ball.)

Unfortunatley, the O's should expect 145-150 games rather than 162 a year

I would like to take this opportunity to lay more blame on Trembley and the coaching staff.

Adam Jone's slide is a perfect example of the leadership problems we have on this team. It's extremely obvious to everyone that he's not being patient enough, swinging at garbage, and isn't likely to see a strike on the middle/in part of the plate the rest of the season. But young Mr. Jones continues to hack away.

How hard is it to make him realize what everyone else does. How much coaching does it take to say either you're going to be more disciplined or we're going to sit you every other day until you figure it out.

I hope Jones can see Pie coming up fast in his rear-view mirror. Part of Adam's problem is that his early sucess this year is leading him to think he can hit anything. You can tell just by looking at him that despite all his positive qualities he is an extremely cocky guy. He needs to go back and watch some video of what he was doing when he was sucessful and compare it to what he's doing now.

A competent manager and coaching staff would not allow
this kind of crap to continue day after day, until their future star loses everything and has to start over again from square one. We don't have time for that kind of nonsense.

I sgree with djph. I think Pie is teaching us the same lessons that Adam Jones taught us last year, and Markakis taught us the year before that. I remember when Markakis came up. He stunk it up so bad for the first half of the year, that Markakis said even he couldn't understand why he was still in the lineup. Young players require some patience to develop sometime. Pie is demosnstating that again.

Jones' slump is troubling because,as djph said, everyone can see what is wrong, but the slump persist. Why hasn't the coaching staff helped him turn this thing around? Maybe they have, and Jones just isn't listening. I don't know. I have taught before, and I know that sometimes you give a person the answer, and when the time comes they will still get things wrong. Depressing, but true.

All that being said. the O's look to have 4 good young outfielders, 3 of whom are still developing. I don't think the Orioles shoud trade, or give up on Jones. I think they ought to be finding a way to get all four of their young outfielders regular playing time, possibly utilizing the DH and rotating time in the field. I also think having that fourth guy keeps everyone on their toes. If they are going to trade anyone, Luke Scott is the most likely candidate since he doesn't offer much more in terms of power than any of the outfielders, and he is well below their level in the field.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Does anyone here really think that when a player is in a slump, the coaches just tell him what he's doing wrong and he starts hitting better? That ball off the outside part of the plate, looks like a very hittable fastball to Jones. He doesn't get to see it from center field like we do. He has to learn how to lay off that pitch, and it's not as easy as Crowley just telling him to.

Ah shucks Schmuck....

I guess you meant to reply to my comment but hit up Wayne instead....

So the outside fastball looks very hittable to Jones huh? As well as the outside and low change up and the outside and low curve and the outside and low slider and the outside and low 2 seamer and the outside and low sinker, and the outside and knuckleball and the outside and low ephise (probabley not how you spell that one), and so on and so on and so on......

The coaches don't tell don't tell a player what he's doing wrong when he's in slump.....huh......call me crazy but that's always what I assumed they were there for.

Are you serious Pete???????

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Pete's reply: Yes, I'm serious. If a coach could talk a guy out of a slump, there would be no slumps. They work with the guy on his mechanics and try to help him with pitch recognition, but the hitter still has to go out there and recognize the pitch, which Adam hasn't been doing lately. It's just a little more complicated than you are trying to present it. Crowley is a pretty good hitting coach, but obviously a lot of people here know more about hitting than he does. I guess that's why they call it baseball.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here Pete, but are you seriously implying that Jones actually believes that some of those pitches he's been flailing at are strikes?

As someone who played baseball for over 10 years, into division I college level, I refuse to believe what you're saying. I'm not saying I never got fooled or swung at a bad pitch, but when I chased something, I knew I chased it, and I knew I was helping out the pitcher. I would remind myself to be more patient, stay back a little longer to recognize the pitch as you say, and just take it where it was thrown....i.e. not try to pull everything.

That's pretty basic hitting 101. I think the more likely explanation is exactly what I suggested earlier. It's a combination of Jone's impatience, arrogance, and the coaches not realizing that he knows better and getting tough with him.

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Pete's reply: Well, then I'm really surprised you didn't go further in the game, because you're obviously a better hitter than Adam Jones.