fire trembley

Pete....

How can anyone explain why Chad Moeller was in the lineup tonight? Does Trembley have some kind of Little League mentality where everyone gets a chance to play? There is no rational reason why our uber-rookie sat on the bench while garbage-time Moeller ate up critical at-bats instead of our "future."

Trembley has no legitimate excuse for benching Matt Weiters for this game, other than to promote the idea that it really isn't about a "youth movement." What the crud is gained by putting Moeller out there? I could see it if it was a Sunday.......a day game after a night game. But to have Chad Moeller in the lineup for no other reason than to give him playing time like some kind of Little League rule goon....I'm not getting it.

If I go to Camden Yards on a Thursday evening in the next few weeks, and Chad Moeller is in the lineup instead of Matt Weiters....why bother showing up? Have I actually paid money to see Chad Moeller? Are you kidding me? Are you serious? I don't care if the rookie goes 0-6 with six strike-outs, and has five pass-balls....I wanna see Matt Weiters.

I'm pretty mad right now, and that's hard to do for a level-headed guy like me. In fact, I'm downright furious. We got rid of Gregg Zaun so Weiters could play.....and Chad-freakin-Moeller is in the lineup?

Spare me the strategy crap, or how our first-round pick needs a "veteran" catcher to help him through such a tough line-up.

I'm beyond a conniption.

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Pete's reply: OK, I'll spare you the strategy part, because I really don't know why he started Moeller. But at least consider that he might want to see each young pitcher with both Moeller and Wieters down the stretch to see what each of them are doing and how the guys are responding to it....and thanks for using the word "conniption." I think it's the first time I've seen it in a post.

Give me a O
Give me a R
Give me a I
Give me a O
Give me a L
Give me a E
Give me a S

What do you got?

Orioles!

Go Orioles!

I feel better already.

Chris -- Don't worry. Catchers always get more days off than other position players. With the Orioles playing a lot of games in a row, Wieters is just getting a chance to rest his knees.

Pete -- As you say, the Orioles have been leaving a lot of men on base of late. Of course losing is never a positive sign, but at least they've been losing close games, and leaving men on base is better than not having them on in the first place. So it hasn't been as bad as it could be.

The nice thing tonight was that the Orioles drew four walks, and made the Rays pay as all four of them came in to score.

With Wieters, Matusz, Tillman, and Reimold up, and Bergesen back at some point, we're getting a preview of what next year's team will be like. Let's see how they finish the year.

Enough of Baez .I can't watch him any more.

My wife is away and I get a text saying, "so the orioles are winning ha". The next text: "Happy for you. Hope they don't screw it up". It's been a tough season so far, but I'm glad Steve still see's the positive side of things. I have been impressed with the young talent, but I do think with the 1B/3B/DH situation, an impact move in the offseason will happen, which should help with the runners LOB. By the way, my wife is a Phillies fan (just to note)and asked me the other day why there isn't 4 outfielders like when we play softball. Makes those texts just that better.

Way to lock it down JJ. That's what....4/4 on save ops since Sherrill left (starting on 7/29). JJ has a 0.89 ERA over the span and the way Kam is pitching it looks like we still have a solid 8/9 in place.

Can all the naysayers maybe admit now Andy had somewhat of an idea what he was doing? Especially considering how well Bell is playing down at AA.

Chris, on the subject of Weiters day off keep in mind that it's been as hot and humid as it's been all summer and that's wears down catchers even more.

fire fire!

JD........that would be fine if they were playing out in the heat and humidity. But they were playing in an AIR-CONDITIONED dome.

I don't get what the hype about Wieters playing every game is. He is a rookie. A rookie catcher. He is not Cal Ripken. It seems like the Orioles fan base has this feeling that every player needs to start every game. Maybe with Matusz, Trembley felt a vet catcher would help him settle in. It's not like its a 50/50 split with the catching time.

Chris -

We get it: you're annoyed because you went to a game and didn't get to see all the players you wanted to see.

It doesn't mean it was a bad managerial decision.

In this lost season there are probably a couple of guys we should have tried to shop in May or June while the gettin' was good. Denise Baez and Aubrey Huff. We obviously could have gotten some more or better "inventory" for Huff before he totally imploded in July. Baez got off to a great start, but now his arm is falling off again and it may be time to shut him down, yet again.

Good summation on the Plaxico case.

Must agree with Anonymous in part with Tembley lack of major
league management. #1 His lack of knowledge concerning pitchers.He needs a pitching staff of 27 (one for each opposing batter)#2 He has little league approach to give every player minutes into the game. He utilizes players as if still in spring training to determine their spot in lineup. How can any player develop a sense of confidence being a human yo yo to Daves guessing game. Not everyone is a Cal Ripken to possess an iron man potential but hell they are suppose to be pros.
It's time for Trembley to take himself out of the lineup.Does anyone on that team possess a permanent locker. The fans don't deserve another year of rebuilding with someone who is little league or spring training oriented.

All's well that ends well, and that includes Chad Moeller's start. I think our rookie starters are for the most part making so-far-so-good progress.

I think MacPhail will continue his Cash-For-Clunkers approach of freeing up payroll by getting rid of veterans, with Baez and Mora next to go. I think he'll at least attempt to get a bigger bat in our lineup for next season, if only at DH.

The jury's still out on whether Trembley should be the manager next year, but he may be the default choice unless a MLB veteran with proven success comes our way. If he's allowed to stay on he'll likely be kept on a short leash.

Now that many of our prospects are on the team, we'd better see "progress" in 2010. Maybe not so much in terms of wins and losses, but at least a team that wins winnable games and steadily improves over time.

The Orioles will be scuffling for runs against the White Sox pitching staff and they will have to play sound fundamental baseball to have any chance. They must score runners from third base with less than two outs, and stop rolling over and trying to pull outside pitches.

I realize that the manager doesn't hit, pitch or field, but the biggest disappointment this season is the failure of the veteren players to play like veterens. They swing at bad piches when ahead in the count, especially with runners in scoring position, and they don't move runners up.

Ty Wiggenton, Melvin Mora and now departed Aubrey Huff have left more men out there than we left on Normandy Beach.

Dave Trembley is a knowledgeable baseball man but something he is doing{or not doing} is affecting the performance of the team. He says all the right things but his perceived coaching acumen is not being recieved and acted on by the players.

Macphail has said that Trembley's job is safe for the rest of this season. I think one thing that Macphail should do is to do what Steve Biscotti did, and that is to interview the players one on one to find out how they perceive the manager's leadership ability and style. They may open up in private.

Alright Chris, don't get your panties in a bunch as we're contending this year and Chad Moeller is holding us back.

As others have said, Weiters is every bit of a rookie. It's not like he is hitting line drives out there. For a guy his size he hits more bloopers than a little leaguer. Not to mention his experience calling a game is minimal. Don't believe for one second that his game calling has nothing to do with the pitching fiasco that is going on right now, and surrendering the highest number of home runs in the league. A catcher is also responsible to a certain extent for the pitcher's success or failure. The numbers don't lie.

Chad Moeller is an experienced catcher. He handles the pitching staff pretty good. It showed when Matusz got 7Ks. What's the highest number of Ks does he have when Weiters catches him? Don't forget that early in the season Guthrie had success when Moeller was catching him.

Trembley wants Matusz to learn how to pitch, and you have to have a veteran catcher guide him.

Giving Weiters the starting catcher job this year was the dumbest thing Andy MacPhail could do. You need a Posada, Varitek, Pudge Rodriguez caliber catcher to handle such a young and inexperienced pitching staff.

Do you guys think that if he had Palmer, McNally, Cuellar and Dobosn. He would have to use as many pitchers? You have to give guys rest when they need it. Funny how you guys blame a manager when he has one pitcher in the rotation that started in a MLB game before this year. This is the most inexperienced pitching staff in baseball. On the position players, sorry catchers do not play everyday and you really do not want to DH your catcher unless you have a third catcher. Please lets be real, Trembley did not pick these players, it was above him..

It's crazy how much better you feel after a win. The tint in the lense lightens. But for the most part we notice progress lately.
Pie belongs. While Reimold still swings at dirt balls he finally got his groove back on a "T" ball pitch. At least he capitalized. Matusz showed some giddy-up and toughness. Moeller made him throw his fast ball early and not pitch backwards. Smart. Tillman improved. But most important to me is the attitude/body language of Brian Roberts. Perhaps he took Mr. Schmucks constructive criticism to heart as he is hustling,keeps his head up, talks in a focused in the moment fashion and it has helped him at the plate. He seems to be "leading" finally.
Now....lets hope Weiters gets a clue, the other starters grow and we stumble across a 3rd and 1st baseman.
Not a Trembley fan here but the man has zip/notta to work with. Look what he is up against in our division. 70 games started by a rookie. Geesh.

Baltimore 49 72 .405 27 30-31 19-41 562 655 -93 Won 1 3-7

Progress?! Progress?

There has not been any progress at all this year. There is the potential for progress if AM gets some free agents and a manager in the offseason but until we see statistical improvement in regards to the record and run dif we are worse than last season. Don’t get happy we won last nights game. That should have been won when Roberts hit a grand slam. We almost lost scoring 8 runs that’s terrible!!

True the Orioles are a bad team. That could be better if Trembley would start being a manager. Whats wrong with bunting runners over. Why can't you tell the batter who is going to the batters circle what you want him to do if this occurs or that occurs. Why don't the third base coach call time out and talk to the batter to get him calmed down or to relax. When there are runners in scoring positions. Why not give the take signal sometimes. I could go on and on, but these are some of the things that Trembley has control of.

Larry, I recommend you look into some anti-anxiety drugs.

Chris, of course we should be giving Weiters regular days off. He is a rookie and plays the most physically-stressful position. Is it worth endangering his long-term health in order to slightly increase the chance of getting a W or two more in a throwaway season. Of course not!

Andrew

I recommend you lay off the sauce so early.

You can pray, hope or whatever it is you do but the numbers don’t lie this team stinks until they show some form of statistical improvement they are a clunker.

I don't know if Trembley is a good manager or not, but he's ending the year with a very different team than he started it with, so I am not sure what folks were expecting. Yes, the annual post-All Star swoon is painful (and getting old) but it's also been going on through four managers now, so I'm not sure it's Trembley's fault. He's going into spring training next year with his team. If they don't make progress (at least .500 baseball) then it's time for change. Of course, if these rookies don't pan out there might be 23 O's fans left by next Sept.

And for the record, the three best managers in the game had the following starts to their managerial careers:

Joe Torre 178-263 (.404)
Trembley 156-218 (.417)
Jim Leyland 144-180 (.444)
Tony LaRussa 151-169 (.471)

The Nationals have the better rebuilding plan. They have a better owner, GM, and manager also instead of collecting #3 - 5 picks every year they are getting #1s. They can make deals with Boras and can get free agents 2 critical things the Orioles are not equipped to do. The only thing they are really lacking is a quality network to broadcast the games :)

DC

Trembley wont get another job in the bigs as manager 100% chance.

Matt
You are right it is too early to make any judgements on Hobgood. All I was saying in an earlier blog was that he is doing pretty bad at the moment and the Orioles have had several failed pitchers that they drafted over the years. Guys that never even made it to the Os. I was just saying why not let Hobgood hit as well. He was a very good HS hitter. He has big time size and probably power as well. It doubles the chance of developing a major league player if the guy seems to have some skills for both pitching and hitting like Hobgood and for that matter Givens and his 96 mph pitches. You are right about Givens the Os should at least look at him as a pitcher as well since pitching is the Os biggest weakness at the moment

natinals watch,

I do not think the Nats have a better plan. As far as it goes with Boras, we do have Wieters and Boras is his agent. The funny part is the Nats just caved into the agents demands, missed on negotiating a deal for less money, if you call that good then that is fine, keep doing it. Really kind of funny that you say they have a better GM and then the really funny one on a guy that has managed only in the last two weeks.

I really just hope that one day both teams will be good, how great it would be to have the two local teams compete for the world series one day. I just hope I am alive to see that.

cb coach

They didnt cave Boras wanted 20 and they gave him 15. That is true about Wieters though. A guy coaching for 1 day is better than DT

The Nats are much more likely to rebound quicker due to the competition. The NL overall is weaker and the AL Beast is toughest division in baseball. Talent wise both teams are awful.

DC,

Lay off the pipe. Are you kidding me? Mentioning Trembley in the same breath with Torre, Larussa and Leland? Are you serious?

Plus I don't know what kind of stats are you reading but here they are from http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers. :

Torre:

Total: 28 years
Win/Loss Prcnt: 539
Titles: 6 Pennants and 4 World Series
Awards:

1996 AL Manager of the Year
1998 AL Manager of the Year

Larussa:

Total: 31 years
Win/Loss Pcnt: .535
Titles: 5 Pennants and 2 World Series

Awards:

1983 AL Manager of the Year
1988 AL Manager of the Year
1992 AL Manager of the Year
2002 NL Manager of the Year

Leland:

Total: 18 years
Win/Loss Pcnt: .495
Titles: 2 Pennants and 1 World Series
Awards:
1990 NL Manager of the Year
1992 NL Manager of the Year
2006 AL Manager of the Year

---
And here are your boy's stats:

Dave Trembley:

Total: 3 years
Win/Loss Pcnt: .419
Titles: 0
Awards: None
--

Again, ARE YOU KIDDING ME!

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Pete's reply: I actually think his first three year comparison was a fair stat, regardless of whether you think Trembley can replicate those guys later accomplishments. Coming back with their career stats is irrelevant, since you obviously hope Trembley doesn't get the chance to improve. I've known Torre since the early days and felt he was a good manager, but he was not considered a real good manager until he got to New York. Your talent has a little to do with the outcome, too.

Look at how they started.

Here is how Torre was greeted when he came to NY:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/20/amd_clueless-joe.jpg

Is Trembley better than them? I have no idea, but Joe Torre circa 1981 was as successful as Trembley.

The point is, you have no idea what the future holds. Maybe he'll be terrible, maybe he'll be great, but a lot of great managers were terrible in their first 2-3 years and all those awards you mention came long after /you/ would have fired those guys.

Hey slugger,

I beleive DC is comparing the stats of the managers, at the beginning of their managing careers.

fire slugger

Hey Slugger,

Are you kidding? Tell me how many awards those guys won in their first three years. ONLY then does your argument hold any water. Tell me then how their records in their first three years isn't a valid way to compare up against someone else's record for their first three years.

DC made a great point and your stats are totally irrelevant to their first three years. Not many new managers get a job with a team that's any good. There's a reason the job was open for them. Take the blinders of just not liking the guy off for a minute.

Was Mora hurt? If not, why wasn't he in as a defensive replacement in the eighth inning? Mora is better than Wittington defensively.

Wittingon was supposed to provide some offense, but has been a real disappointment. He fits in perfectly with the Orioles - doesn't walk much, gets himself out on bad pitches often.

James C,

I wasn't the one making the argument for Trembley. Mine was a counterpoint, which with facts invalidated his argument.

Trembley is 58 years old. Torre, Larussa and Leyland were much younger when they started managing. When will Trembley figure it out and have the success they have, when he has managed in the bigs for 20-30 years? What would he be by then, 90? Not to mention these guys played in the Majors and Trembley didn't, so they have both playing and managing knowledge at the big league level.

If Trembley were a phenomenon as you portray him, how come he never managed was even considered for a MLB job?

To me the winning/losing record as a manager does not matter as much. The thing that matters the most is the World Series titles and Awards at the big league level. Can Trembley perhaps get there one day? Maybe. I hope he does. But until then no person with any common sense should even compare him to at least 2 future Hall Of Famers. That was what my counterpoint was all about.

Wiggy is a POS! Mora should play 3rd every game over him.

I know you weren't but your facts don't prove your point.

I'm not saying Trembley has the potential to win for 20+ years. No one is.

DC and I guess I am saying, logic like yours means Leyland, Torre and LaRussa should have all been bum rushed their first three years. You're viewing them as winners because you know that they turned it around. Put yourself in the shoes of a fan when Torre was stinking it up even worse. That fan has NO idea that the guy will win all the World Series and awards that he has. In year three they all sucked. No awards, no nothing. No disputing that.

So the comparison in that specific context is perfectly valid. I don't think DT will need to buy a new house to display all of his hardware one day. I just don't think you can count him out entirely to do something special at least once either based on comparable records.

Larry -
~~Andrew

I recommend you lay off the sauce so early.

You can pray, hope or whatever it is you do but the numbers don’t lie this team stinks until they show some form of statistical improvement they are a clunker. ~~

Numbers lie all the time. You do not get to define words for us. You might be too stupid to see progress not reflected in numbers but dont impose your stupidity on us. A World Series team does not spring forth one spring training fully developed. They build to their eventual greatness. That might be what is happening here or not but by the time you read about the next morning in black and white, it will already be done. The Orioles in the sixties showed gradual progress by accumulating the talent like Brooks and Palmer and Miller at al. They did not become a great team in the blink of an eye the day the Frank Robinson trade was made. They made "progress" over the preceding years. From '60 to '63 we went from 2nd to 3rd to 7th by the "numbers" you hold so holy but were progresssing towards the team that won it all in '66. Adding Aparicio, Blefary, Blair and Drabowsky in those years constituted progress leading up to the FRobby trade. Of course you would have awakened up the morning after the Series ended, realized what you missed and finally admitted progress was made while you were waiting for the numbers to reflect it. Won/Loss record, and certainly post season success are what is called a lagging indicator. By the time they reflect progress, it is too late to make money investing in that progress.

Slugger-

~~To me the winning/losing record as a manager does not matter as much. The thing that matters the most is the World Series titles and Awards at the big league level.~~

So how do you account for a Gene Mauch who never made the WS because he coached some historically bad teams, came within a single game three times, lost two games for every one he won, but is generally considered a great manager?

Did Joe Torre learn something in the Bronx that he didnt know in Atl, with the Mets and St Louis?

Did Mike Hargrove get dumb when he moved from Cleveland to Baltimore? Or did the level of talent at his disposal drop?

At the risk of offending folks who dont like cross sport examples, are Bud Grant and Marv Levy bad coaches because neither won the Super Bowl?

I understand what you are saying but would suggest maybe it isnt as simple as you put it.