Hey pete great article although it's a little over do for my good. I told you once before i would have loved to have you as my boss as you always some how make excuses for the guy's, i should have said for Brian Roberts the poster boy because out of the 4 guy's mentioned in the article he was the only one that a excuse was made for. Anyway it's nice to see progress being made by you, better late then never.

Great Column Pete,

You obviously have seen many more games in person than I have, but I have attended enough games to witness every point you made, including the pathetic performance last Thursday against the A's.

I am glad that someone in a position of influence has finally called them out.

Now let's call on Dave Trembley to finally discipline and bench players for not hustling. He has been part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Talking to these players has not changed the behaviour. It's way past time to act boldly and sit them next to him on the bench.

about time Pete

I agree the veterans need to step it. When Huff did his fist pump that was awesome. I thought that was a sign of the team going forward and challenging the big dogs in the division. Pie should NOT have apologized to Sciocia. We don't have take a backseat to anyone. If we make a good play we should be able to clap and point to the sky.

Would you ever get a chance to speak to Scioscia or interview him? I would be curious to see if he could explain what exactly set him off.

Also, since you know a lot about baseball, has Mikey ever hit for the cycle? I wonder if he was or would have been excited having accomplished the feat.

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Pete's reply: I am not there today, so I can't talk to him. I doubt he was upset just because Pie stretched to third and came up happy. It was some kind of misunderstanding. Scioscia is a good guy.

If the Angels win this series are they gonna high five after the game or just run into the locker room? Celebrations are a part of the game. Pie struggled a lot and put in a lot of work to be able to do that. Sciocia better go back to picking on people who are scared of him like Frank Robinso... scratch that even Frank Robinson wasn't scared of his BS.

BS... big showmanship (right?)

Nice article, Pete. I, too, have noticed Huff swinging at lots of bad pitches with the count in his favor; it never occurred to me that he's just trying to pump up his numbers entering his free-agent-off-season. B-Rob will be around for years, and I really think being on a decent team will lift his spirits and improve his (lately-absent) focus. Wigginton, like Luke Scott, has shown flashes of brilliance, but inconsistency and spotty fielding make them both expendable. Melvin had his great years (namely, his contract year, hmmmm), but he looks done. It sucks to get old. Just wait 'till next year!

The vets will soon realize, that though they have no future with our club, they are fighting for a contract with another team next season. If they fail to produce, they will hurt their chances of getting any decent free agent offer. If Huff and Mora are gone, and Wiggington is still here, I would expect Snyder and Bell to fill in at the corner infield positions at the start of training camp.

peter nice article. i watched the tom davis show today. phil wood's coments about the manager were that a manger doesn't have much say in the running of a team. todays players think they are owed and do as they please.when melvin mora was boo hooing a few weeks back he should have been shown the door. it might have put the orioles in bigger bind.but it might have sent a message that that kind of stuff wasn't going to be tolorated. the players ought to wise up and realize if they want free angents to come to baltimore they have to get their act together and play better to attract the free agents look at the nationals they sure have been playing much better lately

As I've been opining on your blog for many months, the vets less than full effort is fully understandable when the O's are going through a youth movement and readily acknowledging it will take a few years to compete for a title. How motivated would any of us be if our boss came into our office Monday morning and said "we don't expect much from you and you'll be off the team before we become competitive?" I reserve my strongest criticism for AM and DT who can't seem to demand excellence at the same time the team is re-building.

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Pete's reply: I know this much. If you stopped working hard because your boss told you you might not be around next year, you wouldn't stay around this year. I can't see how it would be fully understandable for an $8 million player to quit because he isn't signed for next year, I expect every player to be a professional, and most are.

Hey Peter,

I like to read your Sunday columns on Sunday, but you're right on with the verteran thing.

I love Pie's enthusiasm. He hustles. If he continues to put it together you might see Reimold taking grounders at first base.

Actually, Jones would be the best choice. Who knows what is ahead.

great article, but incomplete.

What of Jeremy Guthrie? We have more rookie pitchers than hitters on the team currently, and while he isn't in a contract year, he is supposed to be a role model for the other players in performance. (wigginton isn't in a contract year either)

Its really simple.....winning is way more fun then losing. Losing wears you down, its energy sapping, but most of all its contagious. The Orioles have built, established, and maintained a losing culture over the last decade. As Yogi Berra used to say, "winning is 90% mental, and 50% physical". As wrong as the math is with that statement, the philosophy is 100% correct. This organization needs an infusion of people with a winning attitude. People that can infuse the mantra that losing is unacceptable. The team is not going to win 162 games, but they can hustle, and play hard each and every game. When you watch this team play over the course of the season there are times when you see passion and heart. But there are other times when the game is being mailed in.....minimum effort, and sloppy play. Watching the Angels game yesterday was fun.....fun for the fans and fun for the players. And i just loved Pie's excitement when he hit the triple. Who gives a crap what the Angels manager thinks. His team is going to the playoffs.....again, and the O's have won 9 games since the all star break. I was happy to see some emotion and passion from a guy that has had a tough season. But then again, as an O's fan we have had a tough 14 seasons. Yesterdays game was fun for all of us.....hope there are more to come. The next manager and coaching staff have to be a group of winners, and hopefully their attitude will rub off onto the players.
I use to love to watch Pete Rose play. He was not the most gifted athlete, but he hustled his ass off.....and that means more to me then watching some multi million dollar pre madonna not run out a ground ball, or take a day off because he has a hang nail.
Give me passion and hustle over superior talent and laziness any day. It will be interesting to see what Oriole team shows up today for game two against the Angels.

Great article, Peter.

Your sentiments is EXACTLY what I have been talking about the last several years. A large part of becoming a winner is having the talent, sure, but it's also about your mental approach too. A lot of bad habits have been built up in the Oriole system. MacPhail has done a LOT to hep progress that in a positive direction. Remember the days of Darnell MacDonald/Ed Rogers/Matt Riley when basic minorleague facilities were subpar and players got into an institutional habit of trying to pad power or strikeout numbers? That's not the Os system today, but the same paradigm shift needs to happen with the veterans. We've gotten too used to seeing the last third or half of the season turn into a coasting showdog display.

I think it's finally getting close to when the GM needs to start thinking about shedding this team of stopgaps with that attitude. This year we've seen how much energy players bring when their job security is directly linked to their performance. It shouldn't be any mystery that oftentimes the veterans with the highest sense of entitlement on recent Os teams tend to come from players who have no one pushing their spots in the roster. Mora has been a standup guy who has been a quality player but he's been a prime example this year of a vet who feels like he's being robbed of playing time that is rightfully his. Players need to perform under the understanding that being a big leaguer is a priviledge, not a right. If you aren't pulling your weight, you need to sit or leave.

My question is, with your intimate access to the clubhouse, have you sensed a "changing of the guard", so to speak, as far as the players who seem to carry the banner for the team? The guys who set the tone? Is it still primarily being carried by those vets you speak of? I've read some articles and MASN broadcasts who say Jones is that man.

Bravo Peter!
Great article; I hope the vets read you. Have some pride and be a leader.

I'm going to join the chorous here Pete and say great article as well. I sincerely believe that the O's could be within spitting disatnce of a .500 record this year if the vets on the team had been playing up to their potential this season. If they had been able to turn just 2 games a month from L's into W's with some more hustle, some more patience at the plate and some more brains on the basepaths, they'd have a serious crack at a winning season this year, and following them this year it's not hard to believe that they have blown 2 games/month by not doing those things.
I didn't really expect both Mora and Huff to repeat the numbers they had last year, but wow, nobody expected them both to tank like this. With all the talk about Trembley not motivating these guys, and I've been one of those, some responsibility rests on the players as well. I still say that if they do turn it around and finish what's left of the season playing like a genuine Major League Baseball team, I wouldn't object to DT coming back.
By the way, it's obvious that Mora will be gone next year, and now with a new 1b from the Zaun deal it seems like Huff had better start looking over his shoulder too. Perhaps that's the motivation he needs.

Pete,

Whats the catch with this guy Hughes we got from the Rays?? Sounds too good to be true..

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Pete's reply: Haven't processed it yet, so I can't answer you. I'll poke around Sunday and see what's what.

poignant article but it begs a bigger question. Will, or should, these veterans get the ab's needed to salvage their seasons?

Pie should be in there almost every day, and not at the expense of Reimold. There are ways to get him in there if Huff, Mora, and Scott sit at least once every three days. Will Trembley make the lineups out with the future in mind or will he continue to try to pacify the veterans like he did last year w/ Millar and Payton?

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Pete's reply: You're definitely going to see more of Pie, with Reimold probably DHing a few times, but Huff, Scott and Mora will get their ABs.

Thank you Pete. I am reinvigorated by both your column & the brutally honest answer Trembley gave at the State of the Orioles address. If we can solve this issue I am confident it will unlock the potential of this organization.

well it looks like things have fallen on deaf ears. deave trembley saying that the type of play the o's made in tonight game in the angel's 3rd inning is not acceptable. a bit of the george steinbrener treatment wouldn't be a bad idea,but don't hold your breath on semething like that happening.

Pete--Just got back from a relaxing week in Wildwood Crest with my wife and boys. One of the nice things about last night's blowout (16-6) win over the Angels was that it was Earl Weaver's 79th birthday.

And the Birds beat an unrelated Weaver (Jered) on Earl's birthday.

I'm one day late in getting to a computer for you, Earl. But I join many die-hard Oriole fans in saying, "Happy Birthday, Earl!"

Off topic comment:

With way too much time on my hands today, I put together the best possible line up of former Os still playing in the big leagues:

2B - Jerry Hairston Jr. .261 AVG., 9 HR
3B - Mike Fontnot .228, 9
SS - Miguel Tejada .316, 10
DH - Jack Cust .228, 16
1B - Kevin Millar .236, 6
C- Ramon hernandez .249, 5
LF - Eric Byrnes .216, 5
RF - Gary Matthews Jr .250, 3
CF - Willie Harris .224, 4

See, Os fans! It could be worse! At least we know who to get rid of. I don't think we'd wish for any of them back except maybe Miggy, without the taint of steroids.

If I get really bored, I'll do the pitchers. There might be a few of thise we'd like back.

what was Gary Thorne smoking when he said only one left hander in history had more than 30 saves in a season?

I can understand maybe forgetting John Hiller or Dave Righetti or Dan Plesac or Jesse Orosco , but it seems he might recall a guy named George Sherrill in 2008.

Seems everyone is openly saying the O's need leadership and a will to win. MacPhail pretty much said so at the season ticket holder lunch. Most anyone who has watched the O's realizes this. The sad fact is, it will be wise not to hold your breath waiting for this lot of veterans to step up. They have their fall vacations planned and are happy to just take a paycheck. It's the "Orioles Way" for over a decade now.

Pete,

Regarding your reply to my comment, how can you say most players are professional about putting forth effort when the whole premise of your article is the vets need to man up? Seems a bit inconsistent along with your comment that if people don't put forth effort they'd be gone before next year. In fact the O's have tolerated laziness for far too long and no-one has paid a price by being cut from this year's team. In other words, and this has been my complaint all along, management (AM and DT) have ALLOWED the loser's culture to grow.

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Pete's reply: I don't think I'm being inconsistent. A player can act in a professional manner and still be out of whack as far as his approach at the plate or on the mound. I believe everybody out there wants to do well, but sometimes they still need to look in the mirror and take stock of why they aren't making their optimal contribution. Generally, guys don't consciously let down. They don't say, 'Screw it, I'm not going to try and get a hit anymore.' They just lose their edge and need to get their heads out of....well, you get the idea.

Did Thome really say that?

Pete: Did you leave out pitchers on purpose?

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Pete's reply: Yes. I was focusing on position vets who are out there most of the time. Also, there really aren't any true veteran pitchers in key roles. I guess I could have thrown Guthrie in there, but I don't consider him a seasoned veteran.

The lack of situational hitting on this team is unbelievable. For example, hitting a ball to the right side to move a runner over seems almost totally unheard of among the O's.

Losing has bred a concern with personal stats at the expense of team play. The players seem to think, "we're going to lose anyway so I'll take care of my personal stats and my contract and won't worry too much about the rest." This attitude breeds more losing, which in turn breeds even less of a team approach.

You are right on Jess.

Markakis swung at strike 3 on a ball over his head with a man on third and one out, trying to get the rbi. And the fact is, the team was down 4 runs in the 8th inning and they needed baserunners. Horrible baseball.

And it still steams me that Trembley called out Pie so vociferously a couple months back when Felix made a mental mistake by holding the ball. There was not even a mention of Adam Jones gaffe when he compounded his physical mistake by lobbing the ball into second base yesterday.

Pete- I love your article . you seemed to hit the spot on most of veterans and coaches .

Big E- thanks for sharing the former O's players with current team stats. i was under the impression that players performed better when they leave the O's.

I still believe that Jones is better suited for LF, Pie if he can get it together mentally is suited for CF. That gives you the possibility if you are having trouble coming up with a 1B that Reimold could fit that bill. If Snyder cannot make it work, why not try this?