I didn't watch or listen to any of the game today. I'm fed up. Besides, it's clear that the bullpen is full of devout young men who never forget that Sunday is a day of rest, or at least a day to take things easy.

I agree Pete. Some teams like the Red Sox, Yankees and even smaller market teams like Toronto… heck even this years Cincinnati Reds team have a cool swagger about them while the O’s seem to look frustrated and withdrawn. Not sure if these teams get this confidence from a combination of winning, the manager maybe veteran players. As bad as this season gets though I think AM will address many of these needs in the off-season. This seems to be an observation year to see who can handle the fire and who will stay and who goes.

ZIIIIIING. And the punchline of the week goes to the Schmuck!

Yeah, I agree. Like I said earlier to the frustrated folk, we will be what we are until the rotation is Guthrie, BErgesen, Arrieta, Matusz and Tillman. And guess that? That won't happen till 2010.

Though Trembley is on the clock starting after the break.

If Chris Ray's time as an Oriole isn't in jeopardy now will it ever be? Granted it wasn't a great situation to be brought into but to walk two runners home with the game still tied is inexcusable. Sooner or later AM is going to have to dump him and his 9.28 ERA...right Pete?

People can talk about how the Orioles need to tack on runs in the game but 6 runs should be enough to win a game 8 or 9 out of 10 times.

People need to get off Roberts yes he doesn't hustle every single play but come one he had a home run 3 rbis and 2 runs scored today he leads the league in runs and doubles he isn't even close to being the problem how about we get some pitchers that give the team a shot a winning other than Bergesen and Guthrie, then see what happens I would be sick of seeing a lead blown everyday too.

Let's not be so quick to give up on Ray. He had surgery recently and probably should either be in the minors or still rehabbing somewhere. He is far from the biggest problem on this team, that would still be the lack of quality starting pitching. Get Tillman up here and let's have Matusz in the rotation 2010.

How often does someone like Hill who is about 30 actually turn it around. That is not an opinion so much as a question. Somehow Hill is 14-6 last 20 starts so even if he looks pretty bad he must have talent. Still wonder if a few games in the minors might not help him. Berken's minor league numbers were great. Maybe just talk to him and ask him what he thinks would help him get better.

Walks - winning teams value them, Crowley's aggressive philosophy doesn't (and never has.) The O's have consistently ranked in the league's bottom third in OBP and runs during his tenure, and this season is no different, Pitching will eventually improve, but to contend the O's will have to rank at or near the top of the league in runs as well as ERA.

There was some questionable pitch calls by Wieters when Hill was ahead in the count, as well as the first pitch fastball to Vlad.

This team is like watching a B-movie. You know it's going to be bad, but you watch anyway.

So if you lack a killer instinct, what do you do? I thought about it when I heard Trembley called Roberts into his office today. When you have to remind one of your team leaders to play hard, what does it say about the team? It makes me feel sorry for Trembley.

100% accurate--the Killer Instinct is not a part of the Orioles' repitoire. What makes one think that a few more bonus babies on the team will help this condition?

A successful 2010? In the words of Jim Healy, this has exactly 2 chances of happening, and Slim has left town.

I am really upset with the Orioles front office for giving the fans this terrible product. The most frustrating thing is that the position players seem to be pretty good but the pitching is so bad its going to cause the team a worse record than last season. I hope AM is going to make some good moves this off-season. People may not want to trade with the Orioles if AM tries and makes moves that are totally one sided. Cal said it best today on the All Star Selection show on TBS a good trade helps both teams. I hope somehow the bad seeds on this team are taken care of and preferably traded for younger players or pitching.

The thing that upsets me the most this season is that most fans I talk to just wanted was a record closer to 500. Not playoffs or a WS ring just a better record to show things are on the right track. The players on this team should be able to do that.

Pete - I agree 100 percent that this team does not know how to win. As I said last night, it is because very few, if any, of the players have ever won in the majors. And with an inexperienced manager, there is no one to lead this team. That is why I believe strongly that the next step to winning is to get a manager with real experience in the major leagues. Look at what Leyland has done throughout his career. We need someone that has won before to make these guys accountable and teach them what it takes to win. What is Davey Johnson up to these days? Time to burry the hatchet and bring him home!!!

I agree with Jon, as it's way too early to give up on Chris Ray. I thought he was brought up from the minors too soon, but maybe it will turn out for the best because Kranny has seen him up close and personal so now it's time to send him to the Tides where he can work on his game without the pressures of doing it against bog league hitters.

Pete, do you think Rich Hill hurt his back in the game in Philly? He hasn't been the same since and with a history of back problems, it doesn't take much to mess up your back.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: We all saw him grimace, but he is able to throw a few good innings, it seems before coming apart every time.

One question , why is Melvin Mora still playing third base? Come on Pete. A starting third baseman who half way through the season has 9 extra base hits and can't run a lick. One other point. A camera shot of Trembley in the dugout today reminded me of a deer caught in headlights. He looked lost, confused, and out of options as to what to do to shake this team up. Its just something different every night.

Guys big picture here if DT wins about 30 more games he deserves to keep his job. He might have the toughest job in all the majors taking charge of this team in transition. Nobody expected him to make the playoffs with this current pitching staff so as long as he makes any kind of mild improvement in the win loss column or improves the dread run diff he should stay. Its been said time after time on here if DT gets fired a big time manager is not going to come to Baltimore its going to be a small time hire much like DT. If he makes any kind of improvement from last year by the end of the season it’s a good thing and Andy Mac is going to give Dave the tools he needs to build on that the next season. This thing is going to take time and can only be resolved with steady improvement year to year. Don’t get distracted.

Well they do not have the guns yet to have a killer instinct, but they will. Kind of interesting that it comes up now all the sudden. That is why I was hoping they would sign a player that played on a winning ball club before and a starter that pitched in big games before. The team is going to lose games, but they should not be giving games away at this point. Izturis, Scott, Mora, Baez, Hendrickson and Hill all have playoff experience and only Zaun has played in a world series before. The O's number one starting pitcher has 23 big league wins, our other four have a combined 29 big league wins. The O's closer was a left handed specialist until he won the closer job last year.

This is one of the most inexperienced pitching staffs I can remember, maybe since the Oakland A's of 1979, when they lost 108 games. But in 1980 they played great and won 83 games after a manager change.

We had a guy last year who had known what it is like to win, we elected not to sign him back, but really it is not being on a team that won before that makes you a winner that comes from within with the talent of course to go along with that. I think we are asking this young team a lot to win, learn from the mistakes and get through it.

I have been ultra critical of DT AM PA etc but something finally clicked while watching today’s epic loss. It doesn’t matter Dave Trembley and the rebuilding plan is working. This season is the Orioles best in awhile and we are totally missing the point. AM wants to see the guts of this team so he can properly conduct surgery over the next few seasons. As fans it might seem tough but finally we have consistency. This birds team is going to get about 70 wins and the toxic players will be dealt with.

The game Tuesday vs Bedard in Seattle is gonna be a good one…

Pete,

Your statement regarding the team lacking that killer instinct is on the money. There are far too many mental errors as well. The players have to play, but at what point is the manager held accountable? I must say though, the season could have been over a long time ago. The team has managed to looked brilliant at times and then on others you scratch your head and wonder if its the same team. You just don't know which one is going to show up. Does it all go back to pitching? I think so...

Just wait for the 2nd half of the season to roll along. I really think we will be in for a treat at the finale when Arrieta, Tillman, and Patton are all brought up in the rotation. I think it will be fun to watch and am anxiously awaiting their arrival. They all are on the "cusp" as you put it.

If MacPhail gets the right package for Huff or Mora, you have to move them. But if not, then there is nothing wrong with that either. Our problem is not our offense, but our pitching. When we get the young guns up, the mindset will be even clearer and brighter. The time would be now. I truely think we will see an even better team down the stretch. As you have written many times before, the teams goal is to finish on an upswing instead of a collapse. They don't call them growing pains for nothing.

many posters are calling for dave trembley to be replaced with a experienced person to manage the orioles. i wonder where a experienced person could be found to mange the orioles. i think some how dave trembley needs to come up with a plan to some spark back into the players

I can't believe I'm about to say this but, Peter Angelos deserves a far better product than has been given to he and Oriole fans everywhere yet again this season. I complained with everyone else years ago that he wouldn't open his wallet etc. & he was the blame for ongoing Oriole dysfunction. No more...he has paid big time for a number of these jokers & once again he/we have nothing to show for it except a bunch of quitters.
I still remember the stinging & unbelievable confession of Jay Gibbons back in 2006 when he admitted the O's packed it in in August of that year. I am seriously disgusted with Robert's new attitude, Markaikis' lack of one & the "all is well" robotic verse of Trembley. For God's sake man, borrow two from Hillary!

Lost games equal lost series equal lost seasons equal lost jobs.Of course unless you're the Orioles and your owner and Peter Angeloser.We have established a culture of losing and it doesn't matter how many arms we bring up,Dave Trembley is not the person to instill that "killer instinct".How many horribly managed games do we have to watch before people get that point.Before this series the Angels bullpen was the worst in the AL.We didn't score a single run off of them.No hit and run,no bunt,no pitch hitting and terrible bullpen and stating pitching decisions.There's no match up for bringing Rich Hill back in after 5 innings,there's no matchup that calls for bringing Chris Ray of the Lost Mechanics,sounds like a 80's alternative rock band,in with the bases loaded.Hendrickson has pitched very good out of the bullpen.Albers just pitched yesterday.After playing at the proper depth for two games,Adam Jones was playing too shallow again today and a routine fly ball that should have been caught goes for a double.The Angels made the plays that needed to be made,the Orioles didn't andwhen the Angels made a mistake,we let our foot off the gas.We got shut out by a mediocre bullpen for 4 games,enough said.Anybody seen Oscar Salazar lately?He's only batting over .400.And Reimold hasn't been the same since he got benched for Luke Scott 4 out of 5 games against left handed pitching.Enough said.

Gotta admit Jack that was funny.I don't care who you are.

Ok, it's not Trembley, not MacPhail, not Angelos. That leaves one source for the failure, the talent.

Are the Orioles hiring relief pitchers? I mean, I could probably go in and give up a bunch of runs, which seems to be the qualification for the job. Besides, I could use the extra cash.

Chris Ray of the Lost Mechanics hahaha

Once Dave Trembley is fired. The O's
should become a better team. Does the Orioles dugout help Matt call the game if not they should. Do the pitches ever shake the catcher off. They should know what they want to
throw in certain situations. Matt is a
rookie and the pitchers should help him out more than they do. Trembley
let Pie out the doghouse. Because
lately there has been a lot of botched
plays and botched managing decisions. But Pie is a rookie so
he gets all the blame. Trembley seems to be intimdated by the veterans.

Isn’t the Lost Mechanics a local Baltimore rock band consisting of:

DCAB
Steve Trachsel
Rhadames Liz
Adam Eaton
Brian Buress

Somebody should make a top 10 of the most hilariously bad Baltimore Orioles pitchers over the last 11 years… Thinking about that insanity makes this current team’s future look a lot brighter.

Jim Brower

What ever happened to the good ol' days when, if you had a pitching prospect, you brought him up into the bullpen? It's how Jim Palmer started out, and I think most people would agree that he ended up being halfway decent. We have too many scrubs in the bullpen. It'll never happen, but I like old-school baseball (I wish I could have been there for the pitching, the defense, and the 3-run home run). Seeing guys like Tillman, Arrieta and Matusz in the bullpen would be a dream. You don't throw them to the wolves, you let them soak in the major league experience while performing mop-up duties in long-relief. Can you imagine if our rotation was good enough to stick Rich Hill or David Hernandez in the 'pen? I only hope they have enough desire to win as someone like Reimold, not Roberts.

I found this hilarious mention of Brower at Orioleshangout.com.. I almost cried

And then…the ninth. Oh, boy. Halama got the Birds in trouble with a leadoff walk and a double, and Jim Brower took it from there. Not to give away the ending, folks, but suffice it to say that Jim Brower made his swan song as an Oriole a truly memorable one. On an up note, he actually struck out the first batter he faced, Bengie Molina—which Molina will never live down—but then the fireworks began. Hillenbrand ripped a grounder to the left side that actually knocked Mora’s glove off as he tried to field it, resulting in an infield single. A run scored to make it a 6-3 game.

And then: classic Brower. Lyle Overbay’s eyes practically lit up as he watched a delicious meatball pitch—aka, a Jim Brower Special—meander its way to the plate. One mighty swing later, it found its way onto the flagcourt in right field. The three-run homer was Overbay’s third, and it turned the game into a laugher at 9-3. And as that ball sailed into the stratosphere, it effectively signaled the end of Jim Brower’s Orioles career. He stayed in just long enough to get two more outs (including Frank Catalanotto, who didn’t even enter the game until the seventh inning but still got three at-bats), then was booed off the mound. Or at least he would’ve been booed off the mound, but only about five people remained from the already miniscule announced attendance of 14,315.

hey pete,
i know who is going to be the emotional leader of this team. it will be the first starter who beats the snot out of the player or reliever who costs him a win. it won't be rich hill. he won't qualify.
my nominee is hernandez.

Your rant is on point. This team does not know how to win. Unfortunately, they seem to find ways to lose games well though. It just seems like if the other team can wait long enough we will beat ourselves in one way or another. It is like in basketball, the other team can just wait for us to throw the ball away giving them the game.

The crazy thing is I keep telling my non-Oriole fan friends that this team is talented. No longer are we simply overmatched completely as in years past(okay, pitching is suspect still). Unfortunately, talent alone will not get it done. I just don't know how a team learns that with a bunch of young guys and some veterans who have never won.

"Killer" instinct? What's that mean? Palmer wasn't adverse to throwing a little chin music in his day, was he? Is that what he means? Our pitchers seem allow these rival batters to dig in and swing at will. A little controlled wildness might help to mitigate the lack of power arms. Killer instinct means a fastball in on the hands... I watched the Phillies play the Mets over the last couple of days. Even Jamie Moyer, throwing his fastball at 80mph, moved the opposition off the plate. The Phils scored runs early and left it up to the bullpen to hold the lead. Matson, Romero, and others were wild up and in. Bingo. Three wins for the Phils. Good pitching solves everything.

I just haaaaaaaaaaaate all of the assertions that Dave Trembley is the entire problem. Over and over again. It's tiring. I'd rather watch the bullpen explode again than hear some whining rant on DT that's centered on this team not being a contender this year.

He's working with a skeleton crew of prospects and veterans that are mostly here still because we couldn't unload their contracts (Mora, Baez, Huff) or they were cheap and servicable (Wiggington, Izturis, Eaton, Hill, Zaun).

Not many managers are asked to balance the load on his plate. He's got to find time for Luke Scott who should be a fulltime DH, but can't because he's splitting time with Huff and Wiggington. Then in left there's the Pie experiment mixed with Reimold exploding. So Scott playing in left like McPhail planned is out the window, except it's not because all of these guys are on the roster and DT has to find them all time because some need to grow and others are too good to bench.

The bullpen is a mess since you have Albers (coming off surgery), Baez (coming off surgery), Ray (coming off surgery), Johnson (on the DL shoulder issues last fall and it flared up this spring) and a bunch of rookies who no one knows what to expect out of them any given moment. Don't forget he was stuck with Walker for a while too. Not Trembley's fault that guy forgot how to pitch, but still had to be used.

Then look at the starters. Eaton was a Front Office risk that was a bust. Same for Hill it looks like. Then you have Koji who just isn't able to handle being a MLB starting pitcher (as evidenced by his trip to the DL). More Front Office risks. Then you have Guthrie and a rookie to round it out. Guthrie just hasn't had it (pitching coach issue, not manager per se) and the rookies have to be protected from overuse so they don't get burnt out since the season isn't even halfway done yet and you'd kind of like them not to be on the DL in September.

Keeping all of that in mind, the locker room has to be an utter cluster. It doesn't surprise me at all that there is no focus. Half your position players are struggling for playing time and your bullpen was beatup before they started. There is no consistancy and a lot of uncertainty. Starters can't trust the bullpen, the bullpen knows they're an anchor on the team, the rookie position players want to impress and the veteran hitters feel the weight of the world trying to be the ones to compensate. Though Roberts needs to see a shrink or something and get help coping with whatever his issue is.

Personally, I want to see Trembley manage a real team before I judge him. That didn't happen in 07 or in 08 and sure isn't happening this year. Everyone likes to compare us to the Rays of 06 (07 if you're that optimistic about next year here), but Joe Maddon managed those teams and they fared far worse than the O's have under Dave Trembley and when Maddon finally got talent to work with he got the job done even though I'm sure they lost games they "could" have won those years. In the end who looks back at 2007 after what they did in 2008? It's a year that meant NOTHING, just like this year for us.

lf Trembly is to go, so should the entire coaching staff! Crowley made a living as a late inning pinch hitter against hard throwing right handres like Gossich. A first pitch fastball hitter. Watch the good teams! Hitters go deap in the count and get a good pitch.
On another note...lt still comes down to starting pitching! lf you have four starters who can go eight innings you don't need to carry 13 pitchers! You can put some bats on the bench and win in the late innings!
l said my piece!

Peter, you and Jim Palmer are correct that the O's lack a killer instinct. The problem is you haven't identified the most obvious reason which is the low expectations the front office (AM) has established for itself. How in the hell are the players supposed to motivate themselves to really try hard day after day when the front office gives up on them before the season even starts.

I believe that the O's talent level is above average and they should be doing far better if more was demanded of them. Two changes would fix this team. First, tell AM that his approach of low expectations is no longer acceptable and he, like everyone else, will be evaluated by wins and losses. Two, stop the idiotic pitch count approach to starting pitchers. Push them to finish the game in order to build their confidence and cut the size of the bullpen. I believe Jim Palmer supports this one.

I wish someone on the O's would step up and pull a Ryan Braun

"Their starting pitching is a lot better than ours," Braun said after the Brewers were beaten 8-2 Sunday. "They threw the ball a lot better than our starters did. They certainly swung the bats better than we did. Clearly they were the better team. It's nice to get the one win but they clearly outplayed us and outperformed us all series."

I have been one of the few who hasn't called for Trembley's head. I don't think ANY manager could win with the mostly pitiful lot that trudges to the pitching mound for the O's. It's been long understood that you build a winning team with strength up the middle - catcher who can both hit and field, slick-fielding middle infielders who can hit at least .250, and a 5-tool center fielder. What's missing for the O's? Just the pitching. Time to make changes.

How is replacing Trembley going to help rebuild this franchise right now? They need fundamentals and pitching. One of them Trembley can provide and that is fundamentals. His comment after Pie's baserunning blunder last week was something like "that isn't how we do it here." He's right. He's addressing the problem. If the team has a second half meltdown where they look and play like zombies, I say replace Dave. He has the tools and authority to bench guys who are laying down, and he should.

The Oriole Way needs to be a big part of the rebuilding process as well.

Everybody should take a deep breath and read James C's comments above. I am by no means a Trembly apologist, but almost everything James says is right on the money.

Was there one preseason publication or website that didn't pick the O's to finish last in the AL East? I'm as unhappy as everybody about some of the ways we have lost this year, but the number of losses doesn't surprise me (especially when you factor in how much our starting rotation has changed).

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the younger players are starting to emerge. We have one of the best young outfields in all of baseball with Reimold, Jones and Markakis, Wieters appears to be the real deal offensively and defensively, and the young arms are beginning to make their way to the Majors.

Getting frustrated is a rite of passage for O's fans. I get that and even embrace it. But we also have to be realistic and realize there are brighter days ahead. Dave Trembly might not be the solution, but he is hardly the problem.

The problem with this team is that the presence of a handful of competent players -- Roberts, Markakis, and Huff -- creates the illusion that the team is better than it actually is. On balance, it is not good team, and the current top tier players would be second tier folks on a legitimate contender. Adam Jones needs to figure out how to hit a low fastball and an inside curve ball, and its time to send all of the starters save Bergeson packing. It's impossible to judge the effecitveness of Dave Trembley because he has absolutely nothing to work with.

Of course they lack a killer instinct. When were they supposed to develop it? There haven't been many leads to protect the last few years.

Count me excited to have a team that's capable of getting four-run leads to begin with. Get enough of them and the team and manager will figure out what to do with them eventually.

Patience!

The days of Earl Weaver may be long gone, but I don't think this team would make as many errors in fundamentals if he were manager.

I don't blame Trembley for everything, but we've had problems with fielding and baserunning that don't seem to be addressed adequately.

I agree about the lack of killer instinct. It seems the longer a player has been here, the more passive he becomes. Say what you want about Kevin Millar, but at least he played for a championship team in his career. Aubrey Huff spent most of his time playing for the last-place Devil Rays, and most of our other veterans haven't been on a winning team in a long time if at all.

I sure hope the younger guys coming up from some of our winning farm-system teams can inspire the veterans and not the other way around.

Is this the same Chris Ray that was untouchable in Spring Training? Did he carry a 0.00 ERA? He was hitting marks and throwing hard...what has happened since?

He is walking too many (recurring theme for the Oriole pitchers). Has he lost confidence? Is his mechanics that off now? Are we looking at another player with an 'anxiety disorder'? Is he really injured again and not saying anything?

I really had expected Ray to be one of the strongest pitchers in the BP and he now is one of the worst -- something does seem wrong.

Please file "killer instinct" with "intangibles" it is an utterly meaningless phrase. What wins games? Talent, hopefully in all three phases of the game. All these people complaining about Roberts, Trembley, the bullpen, etc. You know what's really killing this team? They're among the worse defensive teams in all of baseball. Our infield defense in atrocious, Huff, Mora, and to a lesser extent Roberts are below average to atrocious defensively. And by the way Melvin Mora has been a very good player on this team for years, but at this point Mora is a black hole both in the lineup and on the field. He should be released immediately. With Izturis due to return the O's should stick Robert Andino at 3B. He can't hit much but at this point he's not that much worse than Mora and he's an excellent defender. If we are going to start calling up our best pitching prospects let's put at least a league average defense behind them. And keep in mind when Tillman, Arietta, et al do arrive, rookie pitchers typically don't go deep into games. Yet another reason overall results this season don't really matter. Though I do think having rookie pitchers serve a bullpen apprenticeship is a good one, it doesn't seem as if the O's want to go that route. So the bullpen is going to continue to get a ton of work. We're first in baseball in relief innings pitched and last in starting innings. There's no easy fix for that but not giving away outs defensively is a good start. This team is headed in the right direction but it's not going to happen overnight, September callups will be fun to watch, but not for wins and losses. Maybe in 2010 but more likely 2011 or 2012.

I see where Tillman and Miller were selected to pitch in the AAA All-Star Game in Portland, OR (beautiful city in a great setting). Is there any word on a time frame for their promotion to the big club?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: No. They almost never telegraph that stuff, though they did with Wieters because it sold tickets.

~~How often does someone like Hill who is about 30 actually turn it around. That is not an opinion so much as a question~~

Dennis Martinez kicked booze and turned it around after he left Baltimore and went to Montreal and Cleveland. Sandy Koufax took half his 12 year career to turn into arguably the best lefty ever.Nolan Ryan considered retiring from baseball at 25 before a trade to the Angels turned his career around. Gaylord Perry had his breakout season at 28. Randy Johnson was 29 when he credited a session with Nolan Ryan for the change in his delivery that cured his legendary wildness.

All merely anecdotal and doesnt prove anything about any current pitcher but there are lots of examples of late blooming pitchers which is what you asked for.

Mike-

~~The most frustrating thing is that the position players seem to be pretty good but the pitching is so bad its going to cause the team a worse record than last season~~

If you believe that the problems are largely with the pitching, and you know that the minor league pitching is the strength of this organization, dont you have to credit the organization? Wouldnt it be more frustrating if the position players were the problem and we had no posssible answers in the minors? Not that this team isnt frustrating but dont miss the forest for the trees.

JD - I disagree. Both "killer instinct" and "intangibles" are phrases used to describe somewhat nebulous concepts that can't be described easily but we all know what they mean. Sort of like describing red colors as warm and blue colors as cold.

Our infield D is pretty average by my estimation. I think Huff has played better than I expected tho I do recall him looking awkward going back on pop ups in foul territory a couple times. Mora is decent still and a few standout lapses dont change that any more than a couple of spectacular plays do. The shortstop situation is vastly improved from last year if only by the stability. Roberts is fine despite the intense scrutiny a few gaffes have brought. We certainly need a solid solution going forward at 3B. I think Huff has done better than expected but obviously is no Tex around the bag ; I would be fine with keeping him there a couple more years. And down the middle I say we are near the top of the game in defense. Weiters will only get better as he settles in, Roberts and Andino or Izzy are strong and Jones is good and getting better.

Trying to maintane any sort of enthusiasm for the rest of the season gets harder every day. I also didn't even bother to check out yesterday's game. This team has clearly tossed in the towel already and unless Trembley is a miracle worker the second half is going to be disaster. I am firmly convinced that this team does have the alent to play much better then they are now. They show flashes of this occasionally, getting everyones hope up with a great series or a string of exciting victories, but they always turn around and follow with a string of completely dispiriting losses. It is the most Jekyl and Hyde team I've ever seen, which I guess is to be expected with so many rookies and almost no veterans who know what it takes to win.
So, is this solved by acquiring a couple big name free agents, a new manager, maybe both? The O's still have a much longer way to go then I think many of us realized at the beginning of the year. Right now, it's about impossible to believe that we won't be witness once again, to the kind of hope choking second half collapse we have grown so very used to. Please Orioles, please, prove me wrong.

The killer instinct is not there for two reasons: the veterans (Roberts, Mora) are in a rut and have NEVER won here and the rookies are being rookies. Palmer hit the nail on the head with that comment.

My question is -- what can Trembley do to try and light a fire under their (rear ends)?

Unfortunately, as a fan who is STILL HERE after this decade plus, it all boils down to:

Same (Stuff), Different Day.

I'm thinking AM will spring a nice surprise or two before the July 31 trade deadline. Pennant and wild card contenders are always looking for talent that will make them strong for the rest of the season and give them a leg up. Like, for example, a left-handed power hitter or a high-average base stealing infielder and leadoff hitter. Last time I checked the O's have a couple of those, still good enough to help a team get over the top this season, but with enough gray in their beards that it doesn't hurt to swap them for younger talent.

I really do not understand what people really want. How can you not be excited for what the future holds for the O's. Yes they have lost some ugly games but you look at what you have now from three to four years ago, things look up. Really much better young hitters and a few good veteran hitters. Huff, Roberts, Markakis,Scott and Mora where all outstanding last year, and Mora was on fire in the second half. Now you add in Wieters, Reimold and Jones things look bright. The bench is pretty good with Wigginton, Andino, Zaun and yes even Pie seems to be better off the bench. They have rid themselves of the awful starting pitching they started the year with, and are going with three rookies and a throw away player that has the best curve on the team. If he learns a new pitch and to throw more strikes he will be something. It he does not no matter the Orioles still have Tillman, Matusz and Patton that have not been called up yet. Then after that you have Arrieta, Erbe and several relief pitchers who are on the wings right now. Look at the positives Pauley Walters have not even had a call up.

Really it comes down to learning to win at the big league level. No disrespect to anyone the fans, owners, players and press, but this was the deal this year, there were no statements made that said they were going to compete for the world series, this was, and is a rebuilding year, calling it throwing in the towel is not what is happening, they are just learning. It is more exciting this year than years past. I give a lot of credit to McPhail and a lot of overdue credit to the GM's we had before AM, you can see they were on the right track. I will not be surprised if they are well over .500 next year and competing for the division in 2011. Keep the faith:)

Just get rid of all Cubs' rejects like Hill and Pie. These are all McPhail dealings and he is the one who pushes the manager to give these losers playing time.

The PLAN IS NOT WORKING! One cannot take 1 step forward and 2 backwards and pretend to tell me there are positive things coming.

Forget about 2010. The O's won't even break 500 in 2010. They are losers and comfortable with it. They don't know how to win, from the owner all the way down to the water-boy.

Money is what guaranties you the best chance for success. Unless Angelos is prepared to fork'em over or MLB puts in place salary caps, we will continue to lose.

And please, everyone stop thinking we will follow the Tampa Bay blueprint. That was a fluke. They won't repeat it again. They will come in third in the AL and not make the playoffs. What they did happens once every 10 years.

Pete--What movie did you see? "Angels in the Outfield"?, "Sunday, Bloody, Sunday"? , "Mister Roberts"? Or maybe you got a taste of that missing killer instinct by taking in "The Birds"?

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Pete's reply: I saw "The Taking of Pelham 123."

I used to be a Trembley fan, but when you say a team lacks killer instinct, when you continue to see mistakes in the field when the manager's strong suit is supposed to be instilling the fundamentals, and to make matters worse, the majority of the mistakes are being made by the veterans, not the kids, well, all that's the responsibility of the guy they call "Skip." And the funny thing is, if Trembly were here, he'd probably be nodding in agreement. Thing is, we've had way too many guys admitting they're not doing the job, and that's all well and good, but it's not making any difference. It only matters if you then witness a CHANGE in performance. We're not seeing that. We continue to see players making bonehead plays or showing a general lack of enthusiasm. For me a red flag is when I hear the players like the manager. Managers aren't supposed to be liked, they're supposed to be respected. Few of the O's LIKED Earl Weaver, but they sure as heck respected him and played accordingly. You make a physical error, okay, they happen; you make a MENTAL error, Earl would rip you the proverbial new one. There needs to be an overall mentality that ALL the players feed into, that we will play a certain way with a certain attitude and if you don't play that way, you're gone. That's part of the "Oriole Way" we hear so much about. Right now, we have too many guys like Rich Hill playing the Rich Hill Way. Brian Roberts playing the Brian Roberts Way. Melvin Mora, the Melvin Mora way, if you now follow my delivered-like-a-sledgehammer argument. Finally, as for Chris Ray, he's evidently got a shoulder problem, so that may explain the wildness yesterday. One thing is certain. We will get better. The team on the field by the end of the season will look a lot different than the one now, as will the team that takes the field next April. If I were to address the Orioles at a team meeting, I'd say this: "If you really do like Dave Trembley, don't cost him his job. Play HARD. Play WELL. Keep your brain in the game not just for four or five innings, but all NINE and for every pitch. If you can't do that, then how the bleep can you call yourself a Major Leaguer? Now go practice catching pop flies and running the bases, I"m outta here."

There are reasons to be impatient. Weiters hammered that ball yesterday, another mammoth blast to the opposite field. Luke Scott has been much more consistent. And Reimold will show soon if his short stroke is indeed slump proof. With the strength of those three hitters, its unfortunate that Mora is underperforming miserably, Roberts is having his issues, Huff is not close to last year, and Markakis, despite decent batting average, is en trenched in the third spot of the batting order that he doesn't remotely deserve. When was the last time he pulled a fastball with authority? Its been said many times before, but DT is too beholden to the veterans and so called stars. How can there be any "stars" above reproach on a team that hasn't won in 12 years?

Pete,

You are spot on. And the responsibility for changing that losing attitude falls squarely on Dave Trembley.

This is a rebuilding year and Trembley is going to stay long as he helps the team reach any improvement from last year. The whole swagger this is irrelevant. I say let the players find that killer instinct and if not AM will make decisions to make the overall team better and to help add players to help the chemistry. Once the team looks like a contender then a new manager may be brought in but as for now there is no reason to fire DT at all.

I couldn't disagree more on "intangibles" being useless.

You can have all the talent in the world, but there's a reason there's a growing trend of people going on the DL for mental health issues. Grienke being the prime example (let's not look at Dontrelle Willis just yet), that there are factors involved other than just "talent."

I don't think anyone has dropped a reference to Mr. Baseball yet, but Kevin Millar always reminded me of Tom Selleck holding the opposing player on first base. "You got any naked pictures of your wife? Want some?" He always found a way to break the cycle of negativity in the locker room either by making a ridiculous quote or his unique hair stylings. That's huge in a sea of hundres of questions about whether your play may get your boss fired or what you think the reason for you sucking at the plate for a month is.

Another intangible is crowd support. Name me one team with the "killer instinct" that has attendence like ours. Tampa doesn't count since they play in a dome, so it still sounds like someone is there. I won't get on my soapbox about actually going to games, but 40,000 people cheering is a better motivator than anyone short of Jesus coming in to speak in the locker room prior to a game for the pep talk.

I wouldn't say intangibles are worthless, they're just a chicken-and-egg argument. Do you win because you have it, or do you have it because you win?

CB Coach, I think you're right on (except for the pre-Andy GMs). Nothing unexpected this year. I don't know what "plan" people say isn't working -- I don't remember any part of The Plan involving the O's competing this year.

If the rest of the talent arrives and we still look like this, I'll blame DT among others. Otherwise, what did everyone expect? A happy-go-lucky, "killer instinct" team that goes 70-92? Doesn't exist.

Too many fantasy baseball lovers or gamblers posted on here. They are the ones angry because of the win-loss record. Someone willing to look past the stats would see the young kids producing. Someone looking beyond the fantasy stats mentality wouldnt be quibbling over an Eaton or Hill or other fringe players. Someone who didnt just lose a bet on the O's would give the falsehood about Angelos not spending money a rest after signing his two free agents to multi year deals for market plus. Anyone who doesnt see that along with MacPhail came a true rebuilding job, not just more of the same old plastering over holes to appease the very fools who pass themselves off as fans on this site just dont have the baseball IQ to criticize coach Buttermaker (Matthau OR Thornton), never mind Tremblay.

even after the fiasco in LA, them O's are still only 14 games out.. and given in the past 11 years they have been over 20+ out by now.. GO O's!!

They have been playing better baseball than in the past, but its a rebuildatrasitiaoverhaulaseason.. so i can wait!!

Let's make some roster changes! We are stuck with Mora who has no trade value now, but let's trade Huff for prospects and retool the bullpen and starting rotation using the kids. Here's what the roster could look like:

Starters: (9)
Ty Wigginton 3b
Cesar Izturis ss
Brian Roberts 2b
Oscar Salazar 1b
Matt Wieters c
Nolan Riemold lf
Adam Jones cf
Nick Markakis rf
Luke Scott dh

Bench: (4)
Goeff Zaun c
Robert Andino if
Felix Pie of
Melvin Mora 3b/ph

Starting Pitchers: (5)
Brad Bergesen
Brian Matusz
Chris Tillman
Troy Patton
David Hernandez

Bullpen: (7)
George Sherrill
Jim Johnson
Wilfredo Perez
Brandon Erbe
Jeremy Guthrie
Alberto Castillo
Kam Mickolio

That would give us 3 righties and two lefties in the starting rotation and 3 lefties and 4 righties in the bullpen. Uehara, when he returns, could replace whichever right-hander is least effective. Gone would be Berken, Baez, Albers, Hill, Hendrickson, and Bass.

Next year we could be rid of Mora and replace him on the bench with a good pinch hitter and fill-in outfielder in Lou Montanez.

Does anyone think that roster would do WORSE than the one playing right now? At least it would excite the fan base with the new "whiz kids."

A few comments on the comments. I agree that this team is playing better baseball and that no one expected them to be anywhere but the cellar. What I have a problem with, is plays like Saturday night by Markakis, all of the baserunning mistakes (over and over again) and the way the team just does not seem to know how to win. As someone else correctly pointed out, this team is not overmatched as it was in year's past. They have talent. Every guy on the bench is a legitimate hitter in the big leagues which is a far cry from years past.

Trembley might do well with a team like the Yankees or Sox. I like DT personally. But I do not think you can have your manager and team grow up together. Maybe I am wrong. All I know is that the Tigers were the laughingstock of baseball for MANY years and within a year of Leyland coming in (and don't say no one will come to Baltimore when he went to Detroit!!), they were winning.

It's not Dave's fault the team is not good. But the team, in my opinion, would be better without him. There are different people for different jobs. The O's need someone to hold every player accountable and someone that knows how to manage a big league club through the ups and downs.

Some good news to report: the Yankees lose, theeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yankees lose.

Half the season is gone and the starters are going anywhere from 3 to 6 innings, rarely getting to 7 or 8, and pitching every 5 days. Meanwhile the bullpen goes every other day (and no telling how many times they get up, warm up, and sit down). This means the pen will be burned out in a couple of weeks. Then what happens? This ain't workin'

they might as well call up Tillman and Patton to see what they can do in the bigs... give them some ML experience going into next season.

I think you hit the nail on the head- no killer instinct. they need to add a couple winner veterans, but where? kind of limited when your only holes are in 1b, 3rd and the bullpen (assuming they won't sign a veteran SP with all the talent coming through soon).

I worry that we are going to be saying the same thing in 2 years- wait 'til next year... the players need to stop waiting and take action for themselves and start winning. There is no rule in baseball saying you have to wait 5 years to win. The team needs to be at .500 next year. The team should be close to .500 this year. The most disappointing thing is the streaky production and blown leads.

I think they need to make a splash and bring in a firey manager next season to replace Trembley. I think there should be a place for him somewhere in the org, just not as a field general, because he isn't one. Someone needs to be held accountable, I think Crowley is the first to go, then Trembley. They need to change something, shake things up. Someone needs to get canned, not Trembley yet, unless the long term solution presents itself. When you have a lineup with 3-4 potential allstars go cold for 2 months (BRob, Huff Markakis, and Jones), someone needs to get canned.

What is Tom Emansky doing? If he isn't available, can the O's atleast order some of his videos? I think his videos would be a better hitting coach than the Crow. (Is there anything worse than the MASN loving all over Crowley when the O's are mired in a losing streak?

Lucky Horshoe,
Thanks for the reasoned response. What I meant was not that the words/phrases "killer instinct" and "intangibles" had no meaning. I just meant they were useless terms for describing a baseball, or any other sports, team or player. In fact "intangibles" is a classic descriptor for a lousy player that a manager continues to run out there anyway, to the astonishment of intelligent fans. Case in point, Melvin Mora. His on-base, slugging, ops slash line is .321/.320/.640 absolutely pathetic. Thrown in that he's a below average defender and he really shouldn't be starting, much less even be on the roster. But fans love him, must be the quints.

I don't get to watch my O's play at all unless they are playing the Rays. I'm stationed in Panama City Beach, FL through the Navy and I can only do the ESPN MVP alerts on my phone. So far this season everyone I'm around thinks I have depressions issues. Reason for this? I'll check my phone one minute and find Baltimore in the lead like 2-1, then 4-1, but give it about 4 more innings and the next thing I know I'm ticked because they choked....again...and again...and again. It's sickening. I'm starting to think theres no hope for this team. Oh well, like I always say when I get mad, "Screw The Yankees".