I was coming to this conclusion throughout the day. They all go about it like individuals, like it's just work and it will happen sooner or later. It's one of the reasons they aren't good, and still might not be even if they are stocked with talent.

There is a very important aspect missing from this team and it is the desire to win - to sacrifice yourself for it, to drive yourself on the field (defensive and baserunning miscues - hello!!) for it, and to make the team success your focus and not individual production.

Honestly, I fear for this franchise because for so long they've had this - there are certain personality types that just don't exist on this club that are necessary for a winner and consistent contender. The Yankees and Red Sox have that - even if they do have great talent. Winning is about more that talent and chance.

Hey Pete what do you think the chances are of Jim Palmer or Rick Dempsey coaching the O's if Trembley is fired?

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Pete's reply: The chances of that are zero.

The O's a contender in 2010? Everyone is planning for 2010? I DON'T THINK SO! This team is really really bad. Has any other team in ALL of baseball scored less runs in June than the Orioles? I don't know but am "throwing" that concern out there. I'm back to not knowing any answers other than DUMP ANGELOS! He's the moron (along with the Flanagan FO) that's created this horrible mess. Perhaps they should start low and dump the scouts and then work their way up. Sell this club to the Ripken brothers .... then you'll have guys anxious to win and not just flip a nickel.

Pete you need to take palmers advice and be in the moment, how do you think just by bringing up our young pitchers that this team will automatically start winning. There isn't one [player that is currently on this roster that has played on any type of winning team in the majors. Pete i know you have to understand what i am trying to say. Just by saying we are rebuilding just doesn;t cut it anymore. these players on this team aren't accountable nobody has ever made them accountable and furthermore they probably just don't know how to be accountable. This team didn't win yesterday they aren't going to win today ,or tomorrow until somebody changes things. Please pete i know you are smat enough to know this.

Pete,

You guaranteed an offensive breakout. Do you really think that is going to happen on a Sunday of all days against Derek Lowe? How can you watch this team on a daily basis and maintain your optimism?

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Pete's reply: I'm not optimistic. I just know that slumps don't last and this one has gone on longer than most.

Pete,

"Somebody asked Pau Gasol who he through Phil Jackson was such a successful coach,'' Palmer said."

Seems like several typos in that sentence. I had to re-read that one several times.

Lack of hustle and effort has been a continuing theme and the management has to be held accountable. Personally I think you need to start calling players out in public on it since it has gone on so long.

Roberts was whining about playing for a winning team yet he hardly shows leadership and hustle. It is easier to talk than perform sometimes.

Jeff Zrebiec wrote today that the Orioles have a serious interest in Dominican shortstop prospect Miguel Angel Sano.
Could you ask David Stockstill when he gets back in the country what have the Orioles done to verify Sano's age? Subtracting a few years seems to be the Central American answer to PEDS.

Pete , I grew up during the "Palmer years ." Much like yourself , he walks on water in this town . Those teams will forever provide a measuring stick when comparing the teams we field anytime thereafter .
Any semblence of a clubhouse leader was lost when Millar wasn't re-signed . You can't expect vets like Mora , Brob , or Huff to be something they're not . Leaders are born not made . Nick is still young , and lets face it , none of the afore mentioned ( other than Millar ) have ever been winners .

Bingo - the emperor wears no clothes! In preseason interviews (mlb channel) with both Brian Roberts and Nick Markakis I was appalled to hear each of them write off 2009 as basically hopeless. Roberts actually stunned the interviewer into momentary silence, after which said interviewer thanked Roberts for his unusual candor. Roberts was very proud of his 40 million dollar sacrifice in the face of such daunting odds. Roberts has talent, but the kid's a twit. (and please Mr. Trembley give Nick a day off )

Jim should remember...He was there in 1965, when, despite talent like Brooks, Boog, and L. Aparicio, and having finished just 2 games out of first in 1964, the O's just couldn't seem to get over the hump, finishing 8 back in 1965. AND THEN CAME FRANK. Leadership.....the O's went to the world series in 4 of his 6 seasons here. In the 70's, you had Lee May....and then Flanagan and Eddie. I don't think there's been a stand up take-charge guy on the roster since Eddie left....they don't grow on trees. If there isn't a player, then leadership has to come from the manager...a la Earl....and I don't know that Trembley is capable of that. On a personal note, Peter, my condolences on your Cal St. loss today....double elimination's a sweet thing, though, isn't it?

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Pete's reply: Well, the Titans have four CWS titles. I'm not greedy.

Not sure I like your leading in the "you can draw your own conclusions" section, Peter. I don't watch the Orioles games from first pitch to last out and certainly don't have the access you and Cakes do, but generally speaking I don't notice any Orioles loafing and not busting their asses.

Maybe this is a matter of perspective, since when you've seen Tejada and R. Hernandez for a few years, everybody looks like Pete Rose by comparison, but it looks to me like the Orioles are, on the whole, more motivated and giving more effort. Slumps happen. I don't know how much of the past 10 days or so can be attributed to people not caring.

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Pete's reply: I didn't say they weren't hustling, but there have been several occasions lately when their frustration has showed and they've looked flat. And there have been a few ground balls that haven't been run out.

Pete,

I find it refreshing and unexpected that Jim stepped out and left the company line. He's dead on! These guys, players and manager are professionals getting paid well to perform! I've always found that having a players manager is great as long as you win championships, but when you can't get over .500 those guys are short lived in their positions. I've never been a post playing Jim Palmer fan and quite honestly usually find him very pompus, but he is right on!

I love Palmer and think the current Os could do well to listen to their Hall of Famers but I agree and disagree with him. The "New" Orioles really do need to take their games to a new intensity level as Palmer thinks, but I think it's much to do with the transitional moment the Os are in right now too. After seeing Garrett Olson again (and no disrespect to Olson), but seeing him walk batters reminded me of what kinds of things we've been in the habit of seeing. How many times in the recent past would we have had no choice but to stay with Pie in LF even though he wasn't cutting it? How many times would we have held onto Eaton or Walker all year? Or kept Hendrickson in the rotation? All of that has to do with the circumstances in the minors, of course, but if you think about what message it sends to our good players, it makes one think.

The current Orioles have had to deal with so much subpar players that they've become a clubhouse built on doing just enough to stay in the big leagues. We are finally seeing players called up who not only have earned chances to be big leaguers, but who actually perform well. They aren't doing just the minimum to stay; they are winning jobs outright. I think what Palmer was getting at was that the ground, so to speak, is shifting at Camden Yards. The new climate is challenging the veteran Orioles to turn into the "New" Orioles, that is, showing the minimum to stay in the big leagues is no longer enough. Reimold is turning into a nice story but there's no way he should be challenging some of our best hitters' numbers in fewer ABs. All is not lost with them, of course. A hot streak here and there from our better batters will even it all out pretty quickly, but the new found talent rising to the majors is also a transition in approach for our vets as much as our rookies.

You cant fake leadership. Players can always smell phony rah rah stuff. To say that Nick needs to be the leader when it isnt in his DNA is silly. Ditto for Roberts. If one of the players has it inside him, it will come out. But you cant just anoint someone the leader.

Great article from earlier today Pete, and thanks for the extra dish from Palmer. I agree 100% with Jim, on his Jeter statement. Jeter doesn't take plays off and does it on the biggest stage in baseball so nobody says why are they paying him this much because he doesn't give anyone a reason to.

I feel good about the win, but it was the same had the pitcher on the ropes and let him back in.

Pete, are you a proponent of trading George? I know JJ is great and Perez is lighting up the minors, but to do it in the 9th inning of a MLB game like George does, is quite different. He is under contract for a very reasonable amount plus the last thing anyone wants to see is the young pitchers doing their jobs, but have the BP blow it. I hear a lot of trade this guy and that guy, but I personally don't feel the O's have anyone that can step up and be the closer.

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Pete's reply: I would trade Sherrill at midseason if he has big stats and somebody wants to give up something good for him.

If you look at the core O's players, none of them have ever been on a winning team!

Roberts - never
Markakis - never
Huff - never (houston doesn't count)
Guthrie - never
Jones - early but nope...

How can we expect these guys to win when they never have!

This whole "The Orioles don't know how to win because they've never done it before" argument is bogus. Anyone remember last year's Tampa Bay Rays? What seasoned veterans did THEY have in the clubhouse teaching the lesser-experienced guys that you "must score more runs than the opponent in order to win games"?

Let's even go hypothetical: suppose we create a brand new league composed solely of players who have never played at the major league level. Does this mean there would be no champion because no one had the rich experience and leadership to teach his teammates how to win? Having more talent than the opponent is the greatest driving force in determining whether you win or lose. The O's are getting there, but they're not there yet. Case closed.

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Pete's reply: You're hypothetical case does not disprove anything. Remember, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Oldetoys, you are a moron. Is Angelos great...no...but have we had great drafts yes...are we on the rise yes...Angelos has done nada to butcher this team in 5 years..take a deep breathand practice you kegels..

We all have our theories about leadership, approach, etc., but at this point the bottom line is that the team is not playing up to its talent level.

If a team is not playing up to its talent level, then the answer seems fairly obvious: you replace the manager and get someone who will get them to play the way they should.

Pete, if at some point a managerial change is made, do you think Bob Melvin would be a good fit here? He has had some success managing at the major league level and played here for 3 years.

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Pete's reply: I don't think there is any reason to speculate on new managers, but -- unrelated to anybody's current situation -- I am a big fan of Bob Melvin. Have known him for 20 years and he's a really solid manager and human.

I'm guessing that Palmer is referring to Roberts when making thte Jeter reference. I agree with him; as much as Jeter bugs me, he always hustles. It irritates me to see MLB players jogging down to 1st on grounders and off the field at the end of an inning.
We chastized Ramon and Miggy for this yet for the most part, Roberts has been getting a pass.
Does it really kill a player to run out everything hard? I mean they are standing around for most of the game anyway. Try coasting on a hockey shift and your a*** will be on the bench and your teammates will let you know in a hurry. Same thing in other sports yet for some reason, many teams condone loafing in 'ball.
I really tipped my hat to Maddon from Tampa when he benched his players for less than full efforts. In some small way, maybe this helped. Meanwhile, Trembley stares blankly from the dugout.

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Pete's reply: If Brian has pulled up on some balls this year, it was a display of frustration, not selfishness or laziness. He's a gamer. But appearances are important, and that's why I said in my column that he is having trouble leading by example. Looks like he's storming back.

The O's should have traded Huff earlier in the season when he was hot -- just as last year we should have dealt Sherrill. You need to trade players at the peak of their value and Andy whiffed on both opportunities.

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Pete's reply: It's always easy to say after the fact what you should have done, but the principle is okay. Branch Rickey, I think, was the guy who always said it was better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late.

Building a contender for the future probably means team leaders coming from that group. It's disappointing to get Peter Schmuck's sense that neither Roberts nor Markakis are leaders now. But maybe they will emerge as clubhouse leaders in 2010 or 2011...or perhaps Jones or Weiters or Reimold will. If not you have to hope McPhail will shop for veteran leadership.

We're watching the beginning of a work in progress.

Palmer's personality is sometimes boorish but his comments were right on target....Other posters talk about the lack of talent, not knowing how to win and lacking killer instinct....all of these are true but I want to center on Palmer's reference to Phil Jackson's success being attributed to keeping the players in the present.....this is incredibly important and cannot be underestiimated......There;s a book called "The Precious Present" that underscores of simply living in the moment.....another example of this being applied in a much higher profile....a couple of years ago when the Red Sox were down to the Indians 3 games to 1 in the ALCS....Varitek (the team captain) held a players only meeting and refocused the players on living in the moment, pitch by pitch, play by play, inning by inning, etc. We know the Red Sox rallied and went on to win the W.S. As much as I detest the Yankees and the Red Sox...there are some lessons to learn from their leaders....Jeter in NY and Varitek in Boston....My question is....Is Adam Jones that guy for the Orioles? I know he is young but I recall him breaking up a DP with an extremely hard slide with nothing on the line....competing as hard as he can no matter the situation.

The O's fresh/soph team won the division in AA last year; the AAA JV is doing the same now. This is where the winning varsity (Orioles) will come from, these players that expect to win.

You've gotta respect Cakes. I think too many fans give him a hard time for talking about himself on the broadcasts, but when you're a hall of fame pitcher you're allowed to talk about yourself. And I agree, if anyone knows about winning it's Jim Palmer. He's not criticizing just to criticize.

My question is very simple. Pete, how many more years do you think tthe Orioles will be drafting in the top 10 of the Baseball Draft? Obviously the Orioles are a "lock" to be drafting in the top three this next year. Considering the amount of money it costs the organization to sign a top pick, I have to believe the Orioles management is getting a little frustrated with having to shell out huge contract dollars year in and year out. Because of this yearly financial expenditure the Orioles better start winning by the end of this year, and the beginning of next, or our current manager and coaches will be quickly replaced.

Basemonkey's comment was, IMO, seriously dead-on!! Best I've read in a while, mate.

Oldetoy's comment was tiresome - how annoying to see such a reactionary, no-thought response to the current state of the Orioles. 'Ditch Angelos', he says. Please.... Talk about not knowing where the problems lie. TIRESOME!!! Get constructive and thoughtful like Basemonkey, or please just don't post.

Mr. Schmuck:
Does Jim Palmer have any compelling/unresolvable issues in choosing not to manage?
Granted, he would probably be Hell to play for, but I'll bet he would get results.

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Pete's reply: Jim has never expressed any desire to manage, that I know of. I don't think he wants to be back in baseball 24/7. He has some other pursuits that he enjoys a lot.

I didn't read ALL of the comments... and living here in New England, sans cable or satellite, Fred Manfra and Joe Angel are my eyes... but... being a longtime fan of both the Orioles and the Phillies, my take on the current Orioles is about the same as my take on the Terry Francona/Larry Bowa Phillies a handful of years back. You knew they were putting the pieces together... you knew these kids would amount to something someday... you heard NAMES of players (Utley? Howard?) but had to WAIT... you saw high priced veterans come in and out through the revolving door... you watched as players like Burrell didn't live up to their potential or "hustle the way they should"... you watched bullpen after bullpen incapable of holding a lead... but... your team stayed the course... Francona led to Bowa led to Manuel... and soon second division became "almost making the playoffs," which became "making the first round of the playoffs," which became "making the LCS, which became, finally, a world series.
The biggest problem I've seen with the Orioles the last decade (since before Cal retired, really) is that they have started these "rebuilding" projects only to abandon them when the fans get frustrated.
To me, THIS TIME it looks like they're finally sticking with the program. My only hope as a fan is that they follow through. I really really feel like the Orioles are THIS CLOSE to a breakthrough which will result in a decade or more of solid, winning baseball. They have some of the pieces in place already. It has been done before. Patience, all.
I can certainly forgive some of the more veteran players for "lapses," seeing as a lot of this must feel like deja vu. I'm pretty confident Trembley can pull them through it.
As for what Palmer said, may I quote what my favorite baseball broadcaster, Rich Ashburn, said about being a color analyst: "The game looks pretty easy from up here."

"Ever see Derek Jeter loaf on a ball?''

Please, did you see him play in the World Baseball Classic. Who knows where his head was.

What's sad is that people who make six, seven or eight figure salaries need to be told "not to loaf it." There's few people in the stands watching the game who wouldn't give their first born to be where these guys are, living their lives, playing a game for a living. Here's an idea, let's take a spin on that reality show, "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here." Let's have "I'm a Major Leaguer, Get Me Out of Here" where we take loafing MLBers and make them have to work at a McDonald's, as an Army recruiter or something comparable, like in a salt mine for a week and then see how much more they appreciate where they truly are in life. As for what Palmer said, he's absolutely right. These are supposed to be PROFESSIONAL ballplayers, not part-time beer leaguers. Fortunately, the O's have been playing a bit better that last couple games, and hopefully that will continue. The talent is there and more is coming. They do indeed need to keep their heads in the game. As I recall with Earl Weaver, Earl could abide physical mistakes, but DID NOT abide mental ones. If I were managing and I saw some of the boneheaded plays we've made on the basepaths for example, I wouldn't be holding rahrah team meetings like Trembley, I'd have the whole team out running drills at 8 a.m. at the ballpark. If they gripe, my response would be, "Well, if you were doing this right, we wouldn't be here practicing, now would we?" It's the difference between playing as "a bunch of guys" and playing as a TEAM.