I think that the worm has turned on baseball tickets. The performances have not been spectacular for any player or any team. For several seasons I have been wondering how long ticket prices and salaries can continue to outperform several common market indices, and I think we're now seeing the knee of the curve.

'Bout time. Some of these prima donnas need a come-uppance.
In tight times, they must think that their salaries grow on trees.

I think that the worm has turned on baseball tickets. The performances have not been spectacular for any player or any team. For several seasons I have been wondering how long ticket prices and salaries can continue to outperform several common market indices, and I think we're now seeing the knee of the curve.

'Bout time. Some of these prima donnas need a come-uppance.
In tight times, they must think that their salaries grow on trees, and not the pockets of people who actually work for a living.

And while I'm on that topic, Peter, please use another phrase than some player is "working hard". He may be exerting himself, but last time I checked, baseball was still a game.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say that baseball has jumped the shark. Just like the rest of our economy, baseball is taking a hit right now. There has been a correction in the housing market in prices that became inflated, and an adjustment in the stock market, and baseball should be seeing that they need to do some correcting also in bringing down salaries that got out of control and in reigning in ticket prices that continued to soar.

Although many fans may not be upset about the PED scandal in baseball, those same fans are probably not happy to see the balls not flying out of parks quite as often (except Yankee stadium of course!). Is there anything to show that HR's in general are down in baseball over the last 10 years? If so, I wonder if that might be a minor factor after the economy?

Except, why would the Yankees conspire to force a salary cap? The biggest advantage they have over every other team is the propensity to spend more (I'm convinced that at their team meetings in November they set aside a large portion of their budget into "sunk costs" that could never get a return on, like Pavano's contract, or Matsui's contract). If a salary cap ever came into existence, it would hurt the Yankees more than any other team.

The average fan has been priced out of regularly attending games for years. I remember going to games the last year Memorial Stadium was open (1991) and paying $15 for a seat about 10 rows off the field, first base side. Back then they still had 3-buck-nights. Now, you cannot see a game from a lower-level seat for less than about $100 total (including parking and some food). That's just way too much for a night out for blue-collar workers like me.

Last year, I saved up and got a seat about 8 rows behind home plate for $75. The people all around me were (at most) mildly interested in what was happening on the field. It was just like that beer commercial, where the people who could afford the luxory boxes didn't give a damn about the game. During that game I attended, the O's were being outpitched, and managed only one rally. And with 2 on, 1 out, the people next to me were having a loud discussion about the insurance business, not paying the slightest attention to the game. What a difference from the old Memorial Stadium crowd. It was irritating and depressing.

It is a pleasure to learn that ticket sales are finally off. This sport desperately needs a salary cap. The NHL, NBA, and NFL all have it, and their atheletes still earn millions. Most importantly, a salary cap would mean that teams like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and San Diego would have a fair chance to at least make the playoffs. Barring a cap, the only way these teams make the playoffs is if every other team's plane crashes. If I were a fan in a small market city, I'd never bother to go to a game at all; I wouldn't let MLB make a sucker of me.
And if I were a working man in NYC, I would be OUTRAGED that my tax dollars were being spent to subsidize a business which enriches billionaire owners and millionarie players to entertain (minimum) upper-middle class fans.

The average fan has been priced out of regularly attending games for years. I remember going to games the last year Memorial Stadium was open (1991) and paying $15 for a seat about 10 rows off the field, first base side. Back then they still had 3-buck-nights. Now, you cannot see a game from a lower-level seat for less than about $100 total (including parking and some food). That's just way too much for a night out for blue-collar workers like me.

Last year, I saved up and got a seat about 8 rows behind home plate for $75. The people all around me were (at most) mildly interested in what was happening on the field. It was just like that beer commercial, where the people who could afford the luxory boxes didn't give a damn about the game. During that game I attended, the O's were being outpitched, and managed only one rally. And with 2 on, 1 out, the people next to me were having a loud discussion about the insurance business, not paying the slightest attention to the game. What a difference from the old Memorial Stadium crowd. It was irritating and depressing.

It is a pleasure to learn that ticket sales are finally off. This sport desperately needs a salary cap. The NHL, NBA, and NFL all have it, and their atheletes still earn millions. Most importantly, a salary cap would mean that teams like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and San Diego would have a fair chance to at least make the playoffs. Barring a cap, the only way these teams make the playoffs is if every other team's plane crashes. If I were a fan in a small market city, I'd never bother to go to a game at all; I wouldn't let MLB make a sucker of me.
And if I were a working man in NYC, I would be OUTRAGED that my tax dollars were being spent to subsidize a business which enriches billionaire owners and millionarie players to entertain (minimum) upper-middle class fans.

Hey Pete,

You're right about the diversity on this blog. I just think that after 10+ years of futility, the O's fans are becoming more anxious for change. They just want instant results (i.e. look at the Mariners this year compared to last, and Detroit the last 3 years going from great to crap to now above average and possible playoff contender etc.). We are growing tired of the Eaton's being the "bridge" if you will, and just have nothing better to do (when we continue to suck) than complain and call you out, and call MacPhail out and call Angelos out. Contenders come in different shapes and sizes Pete. We are following the Rays' path to success, and these people need to realize it may take another few years but the fact of the matter is Reimold, Bergy, and Wieters going along with the Markakis Jones Roberts trio is a very nice core of youth and experience and we can definitely build around that nucleus for years to come. We have a closer and several solid arms in the pen, and I am very optimistic our turn to be contenders is coming up very soon. Heck, I think next year might be the year Pete, I really do. And I would DAMN WELL pick this kind of path to success over what we see with Detroit, Seattle, etc who do not have the core and respond to success (or the opposite) primarily with FA signings or trades (look at the horrible D-train wreck trade Detroit is having to suffer through). Baltimore's trades yielded youngsters we took chances on, and so far they are panning out (with exception of Pie, but he still has time), and we are not 'stuck' with any overwhelming contract; in fact we will be happy to shell out a big contract for these guys (Jones, Tillman, Sherrill) or get value in return via trade.

Long story short, you people need to realize that it took us 12 years but the end of this crap is near. And when the end of the futility arrives, like the Rays (who are awesome right now), it will last. So stop bit*hin and watch Smoltz pitch tonight. If he gets shelled, then great! He can always make a living selling grass or fertilizer on TV :-)

I agree with Andrew @ TLC. The Yankees wouldn't be the team to conspire to force a salary cap.

That said, it's about time MLB adopted one. I've been an ardent supporter of no cap for the last few years, but quite frankly, it's the only way MLB is going to stay competitive with other professional sports leagues. I know there's a perception that the same teams win every year. And to some extent, that's true. But the World Series champions have changed, so it's not as though MLB is in major need of parity. I think there's some there already. But when the AL talk is about the Yankees and Red Sox every year, I think it does alienate a fan base outside those two cities (save for the bandwagoners who follow both clubs, like most of the Yanks and Bosox rooters who show up to Camden Yards). And it also hurts that every time there's a big name free agent, it's always reported that the Yankees have the best shot at attaining him. Wouldn't it be nice if one of these days that player couldn't go to the Yankees but, instead, went to a team with ample cap room, like the Royals or, hey, the Orioles. I'd be in favor of a salary cap. It's about time.

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Pete's reply: I don't think the Yankees would conspire, but I didn't see MLB advise against their ridiculous price structure. Bud could have ordered them to back off in this bad economy.

Empty seats or not the Yankees are still going to be way up on revenue from ticket sales this year.

I agree a salary Cap would be helpful. BUT THERE must also be a minimum. Some teams will need to be forced to spend. Cap will also make it hard to keep a team together. What do we do when Jones, Reimold, Wieters, Tillman, Ariettta, and others are all here needing new Contracts? Have to let some go and hope there are cheaper options still being groomed in the minors. Making the Minors even more important than they already are.

I think a Cap and Minimum is needed, but it will have some negative affects on your homegrown stars leaving. (See Bart Scott, Adalious Thomas, They come to mind first.)

Sure MLB has jumped the shark but it's not baseball ticket prices as much as having nearly every game on the schedule start at 7pm or later. They are going to run out of fans because kids just don't care (and they never will if they don't care now). Kids don't see the games. Kids don't play the game. Good luck to MLB 20 years from now.

If I were giving them advice, I'd tell them that every playoff game should start no later than 6pm. All weekend games should be day games. Give up some primetime money for the best interests of MLB in the future.

Pete,

Just read the Article from the link in your Post.

Obviously the Yankees over priced those Close seats. But the people crying about not being able to sell there season tickets for profit crack me up. They say they have to sell tham at Face value or even less. WHere do you think the Yankees/Mets got there some of there Pricing structure ideas from?

Maybe they saw all the seson ticket holders selling $75 tickets for $100 or more to people on other ticket sites, and decide to just charge the $100 themselves, killing the resale market.

Obviously Most fans cannot goto all 82 home games. But being pissed that you cannot resell for profit the games you do not goto, is not the Mets or Yankees fault. I hate those sites with inflated ticket prices.

Peter,

I agree there is not much to say about last nights beatdown at the hands of the far superior Red Sox but since you brought it up.....

MLB needs to go through a correction just like everything else in our world right now.

Also, owners don't want a salary cap and as we know from the 100 still-unreleased, drug abusing and cheating names on the steroid list, that the MLB players' union will NEVER stand for a cap on salaries.

Even with attendance way down, MLB and its teams are still raking money hand over fist with television and broadcasting rights deals.

I dont think the Yanks are worried about attendance or ticket prices right now given how much they are making from their broadcasts and other revenue streams. If the Yanks are there at the end those seats will be taken, I assure you.

If you look it up, the Yanks via PILOTS had the Federal Gov't paying for about a 1/4 of their stadium - yes, you and I, through federal taxes that wont be collected, are paying for the new Yankee stadium. With other bonds and such, I think the Yanks only ponied up about $400mm which they will easily make back in a few years. Leaving the city state and you and me on the hook for the remaining $1.2 BILLION DOLLARS.

This is a great visual for the disparity in ticketing across MLB

http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html

Enjoy

Here's a salary cap - the Yankees decide for themselves that paying $200 million to field 25 players is not good business. It causes fan alienation and in no way guarantees them of the World Series. An official salary cap will not work in baseball as it does in football - the Yankees and Red Sox will still have money - they'll just spend it in other ways (investing in their farm system) or by just making their owners richer. People pay to see players - if Tom Cruise can make $25 million for one movie, why can't A-Rod make $25 million to play baseball if the Yankees decide it's worth it for them to pay him? Caps will never result in lower ticket prices (ever try to buy tickets to an NFL game?)

I don't get the conspiracy theory. Almost seems like your saying the owners brought on the recession for their own purposes, or intentionally built facilities fans are unwilling to attend.

Peter,

I'm not too worried about how the Yankees and Red Sox manage their payroll nor how they price their tickets. The problem for MLB will be when every team decides to get too cute by half and alienates its fans who decide not to show up for any games save the ones against the top teams. That will erode the game's interest.

Despite Red Sox nation taking over Orioles Park this week (and it is unsettling to be a guest in one's own home) last night's game was not a sell-out and there were plenty of cheap seats still available.

The best the owners could do is to stop bidding up the price of has-been and never-was players. Last night a no-name pitching staff held the best team in the AL to 4 runs. All the Orioles needed was a right handed hitter to get a clutch hit. Does one have to pay $12 million a year for one? That is the question that needs answered.

As a few others have said, a salary cap isn't going to change anything.

If baseball really wanted to fix the "New York problem", Bud would move one of the Marlins, Rays or A's to the Meadowlands. It's plain to see that the New York market could easily support three teams and that the Florida market can't even properly support one.

But will that happen? No. Will anything happen? Probably not. MLB probably makes 50% of it's money off the Yankees and Mets. Think they're going to do anything to screw that up?

Now that vampire donald fehr is gone expect a salary cap to happen sooner or later. The interesting thing to me is if small market teams that have success in other sports like Baltimore, Pittsburg etc can do better with a cap in baseball. Many people use the lack of a cap as an excuse that their team sucks but.. This is a business and I am very curious to see if teams still stink with one in effect.

I've made this comment before on other boards, but wanted to make it again here.
I think the forgotten thing in this discussion is that while ticket prices are going up, it's become easier and easier to watch games on tv...in HD!

There are two reasons to go to a baseball game: the baseball, and the social environment, and MLB franchises are on their way to pricing fans out of both parts.
Baseball-wise, I can see the break on Rich Hill's curve, or the anger on Roberts' face after a badly called strike three much better from home than from the nosebleeds.
Socially, me and a lot of young'uns like me can't afford to regularly (or even occasionally) spend 20 bucks to park somewhere for the right to pay 15 bucks to buy 7 dollar beers and 6 dollar hot dogs while not really being able to see the game. For a fraction of that cost, I could get some pizza and a case and have the guys over to watch the game.

I think baseball as a whole is underestimating how a new generation of baseball fans, who have grown up being able to watch every single game on tv will respond to these absurd prices.

I'm not saying I don't love OPACY, I do! It's a great place, that's great fun, even when the Orioles lose 60% of their games. What I am saying is that where fans with my price-range who could only see the O's on tv occasionally in the past, might have made the effort seven or eight times a summer, while now, they might only go once or twice.

I think the phrase "jumped the shark" has jumped the shark.

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Pete's reply: Upon further review, I think you're probably right.

Doug M: Well said!! I bought the MLB.TV package for $110 and watch all the games on my puter for less than it would cost for 1 game for my wife and I. And for those who whine about not being able to make a profit on your season tickets....go to the chaplain and get your TS card punched!

Yeah I got a 13 game pack this season and it was alot of money and at times with work/school hard to make the games. I love going but next season i might just do the TV thing.

To directly answer your question, Peter, HELL YES! Interesting to see the other comments dealing with only the generalities. Here's my story. The last ballgame I watched in person was three years ago. Even though I watch MLB Network and log on to MLB.com on a daily basis, I boycott FOX & ESPN's coverage because of its dumbing effects on the sport by persistently force-feeding Yankees, Red Sox & Cubs on the general public. I discontinued my subscription to the Outside Pitch years ago and stopped purchasing ALL Orioles publications (yearbook, media guide, magazine) starting last season. The fantasy league I participate in involves MLS, not MLB. Though I'll always follow the Orioles, I'd now much rather have season tickets to Crystal Palace Baltimore, thank you.

All of it is out of control.

Baseball salaries ought to be like those of the rest of the economy--like they were before 1980.

A rookie ought to make $50,000 per year, and veterans ought to be in the $100,000-500,000 range. Maybe the best players would make $1,000,000
(but only the best).

Yes, these players have unique talent, but so do many others in any given profession.

Working overseas in Russia and elsewhere I saw the great decimal move adjustment during their hyper inflation periods. They need to do the same for US sports. For players salaries the decimal point moves four digits to the left, two to the left for all sports tickets. Time to put reality back in sports.

I'm down with the conspiracy theory. For those that don't get it, the theory would be that the owners aren't scrambling to fill the stadiums so they can claim poverty in the negotiations. Basically empty seats in 2009 set them up to underpay players for the next 5 years and the stadiums fill back up when the economy straightens out. Lower payroll plus higher revenue=a new yacht, etc.

The Yankees did reap what they sew in getting greedy. It's just like the whole Ticketmaster scam that got exposed in the spring.

I honestly don't consider you a fan if you're not going to games at all. Baseball is about going. Everyone feels so entitled to a winning team just because they say they're fans. Did you go cheer them on? No? Then go get your ticket stamped at the No One Cares What You Think About the Team window. You're basically not doing anything to support the team, but you want all of the gratification still. It's like running down the United Way for not helping enough kids, but then not buying anything at a fundraiser because you can just get one cheaper later.

I think prices need to come down or at least level off, but I can still get into any game for under $10 (usually $8). I can also get all the $2 hot dogs, sodas and peanuts I can carry into the stadium right outside. You can still get your kids into Oriole Park for less than $2 a game if you get the Dugout Club.

Anyway, it's doable if you're passionate about the team. You have Red Sox fans paying for the trip down, paying for pretty premium seats and spending money in town for the entire weekend. Some of us have the MLB package and wonder why the product on the field is what it is.

Keep in mind Crystal Palace Baltimore, as long as the main club does not get relegated into League 1 or 2 are a minor league team (not in the sense of the US system, but they are a development team for another team).

You want to see good baseball all the time?? I propose the following radical rule changes!

1) Salary cap of $100 million
2) No minor leagues, just "reserve teams" that are minor league affiliates. This means, every team protects and develops its prospects. Also, the reserve teams' fate depends on the big teams' fate.
3) Scrap the divisions, and put every one in the same league. Top 16 make the postseason for MLB. Top 8 compete against similarly ranked teams in other countries. Also, the bottom 8 get dropped to the lower league, with 8 getting promoted. (Relegated teams also get paid about $20 million, each year for the first two years in the new league.) Promoted teams however, can spend $50 million more to avoid getting relegated.
4) Second tier also has 30 teams...4 get promoted automatically, 8 more compete in a playoff to get promoted (4 remaining spots). Bottom 4 are relegated to third tier.
5) Third tier has 40 teams, 2 obtain automatic promotion, 16 more can achieve 2 promotion spots. Bottom 10 are relegated.
6) Fourth tier has 50 teams, 6 make the playoffs, 16 more compete for four more promotion spots. Bottom 6 are dropped. (This is the last national division)
7) Regional Divisions (to be promoted into the national divisions, the stadium has to be up to MLB specs for capacity, facilities, etc.)

RD1: 2 divisions with 3 promoted from each; (2 from division from standings, 1 from playoff of 4); 3 relegated from each division and placed into lower leagues according to region (leagues may be restructured yearly)

RD2: 3 divisions; 2 teams promoted from each division; (Champion and playoff of 4 winner); 4 teams relegated

RD3 4 divisions; 3 teams promoted (top 2 finishers and one playoff winner among 4 contenders),3 teams dropped

RD4 6 divisions, Champion and runner up promoted; Bottom 4 relegated

RD5: 8 divisions, 3 teams promoted (same pattern); Bottom 5 relegated

RD6: Fifty States leagues; State Champions promoted; Entry level for amateur teams.

This does sound like English football, but I think this will get a grassroots interest into baseball. And it will keep ticket prices down (and allow clubs to use their extra revenue for other stuff besides player salaries). The draft will still be present, but the draft is based on THE PREVIOUS SEASON'S RECORD.

It also forces teams, such as the Pirates, Royals, and even the O's and Nats to spend to protect and put a quality product on the field every year. That also means managers and coaches may not stay around as long as they used to do.

Also the other change that's coming is.....GETTING RID OF THE DH ONCE AND FOR ALL!! (And also, a major franchise either in the first or second division will come to Montreal, San Juan, Monterrey (MX), and Portland (OR)) with some teams taking voluntary relegation to start the system. (The free agent rules, however, will remain the same; however there will be a "Loan" option where players can be loaned to a team for a certain period of time)

Anybody has any comment on this feel free. It's just a radical idea and a way to get teams to compete for the now and not to screw up business. (Or you will be the likes of Leeds United (a once proud Football champion now struggling to get out of League 1))

(And there will be penalties for illegal financial moves as well, in the forms of deductions of standings pts; 3 pts for a win, 0 for a 9-inning or less loss, and 1 for an extra-inning loss or tie)

And hopefully this will stop stupidly extravagant stadiums from getting built (in case the team does get relegated) and the inflated ticket prices unless a "Big Four" emerge under the salary cap rules.

A couple of years ago, the Broadway show 'The Producers' broke a shocking barrier by charging over one thousand dollars for prime seats. Then Led Zeppelin did it. But Hey Baseball: This idiocy doesn't apply to you! LZ did about four shows, and the average Broadway house seats about 2,000. You, on the other hand, are trying to sell 40,000 tickets 81 times a year. Find a more fitting business model, or suffer the consequences of your own self-destructive arrogance.

Regarding Tickets.

People still love baseball, they just aren't stupid enough to pay a fortune for a game they can see on TV.

Kudos to us.......

Sure, the ticket prices are hamhanded and cruel, but it's not fair to blame the new stadiums, or the price points that come with what's new and shiny ... nobody saw this economy coming, certainly not the NYM, NYY or MLB, who were in design/planning stages of their current stadiums five years before the words "economic downturn" were on anyone's lips.

Steve, thanks for keeping it simple.
The fewer the rules and restrictions the better I say, and I can tell by your well thought out treatise on the role of choreography in the business of professional sport that you concur. I too am searching for an organizational structure that fosters movement of players and teams and money all over the developed world(excepting Utah of course) like a 3 card monte game. Who knew a blog in the Baltimore Sun would be the hall of enlightenment!.
So tell me again, albeit briefly, why you want to turn the sport of organized baseball into a European soccer league? I'm only kidding, don't tell me.

Tell me, why do so many want to turn the US into Europe?
Look, let's get a king and queen if that's what everybody wants anyway.
Then we can rid ourselves of this actor/rock star/athlete-as-royalty thing we got going on here, and relegate most of those pretentious nee'r do wells to being court jesters and their entourages to being real piss boys and girls.
On second thought Steve...

@ steve

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

1. Every team already protects and develops its prospects. That's the entire purpose of the minors.

2. As it stands, and as we've already established, the minors are for developing players, not teams. So your whole Tier system makes no sense. Look at the Tides. Sure they've got Chris Tillman, Jake Arrieta and Brandon Snyder. But they've also got Jolbert Cabrera, Robby Hammock and Chad Moeller. So your "Tier 2" teams are going to be comprised of a handful of solid ballplayers and then a group of guys who already had their chance, and failed, at "Tier 1".

So how are those teams going to fare at Tier 1? They're going to get destroyed and sent back to Tier 2. Same thing with the teams that get demoted from Tier 1 to Tier 2. They'll run over the competition and jump back to Tier 1 the following season. So basically, you're going to have the same eight teams shuttling back and forth between Tiers from year to year. That makes a lot of sense.

3. You said that your "Regional" teams need to have MLB-calibur stadiums in order to be promoted into the "National" division. Does that mean that all 150 teams in the National division need to have MLB-calibur stadiums? If so, I'd love to see you name 150 cities that can fill big league stadiums. Because right now, MLB is having a hard time with 30 cities.

4. What's this about a major franchise in Montreal? That plan already failed. And Portland, OR? The PCL Beavers rarely draw more than the soccer team that they share their stadium with.

In short, baseball in America is absolutely nothing like soccer in Europe. And it shouldn't be treated like it is.