baltimoresun.com

« Postgame laments | Main | Split loyalties »

April 25, 2009

The bullpen blueprint

daveap.jpgFor the most part, I'm on board with Dave Trembley's vision for the Orioles bullpen. It's great to have pitchers for specific roles -- horses for courses -- so they are always prepared for what they might be required to do.

What I don't like is the idea that the blueprint is so chiseled into the mind of the manager that all the adjustments depend on the pre-ordained timetable rather than the conditions on the ground.

Trembley had his guys lined up last night. He got his strong start from Koji Uehara. Where this game came apart was in the assumption that if you put each guy in a certain spot at a certain time, they'll all pitch great and everything will turn out great every night.

That's probably true if you've got, say, J.J. Putz setting up Francisco Rodriguez, but if you've got a group of relatively unproven guys, then you're dealing with a handful of variables every night. The more pitchers you send out there, the more likely one of them is not going to be at his best.

In Friday night's game, for instance, Chris Ray came on to get out of the seventh inning. He gave up a hit, but he threw just 10 pitches and had some success. There's really no reason -- and Trembley acknowledged this after the game -- why he couldn't have come out to start the eighth inning instead of replacing him with another right-hander just because Jim Johnson is "the eighth-inning guy."

If Ray throws 10 more pitches and gets another out or two, maybe Johnson doesn't give up four hits and a key run that comes back to haunt you later. And George Sherrill doesn't have to come in at the end of the eighth for an extended save situation. Who knows what would have happened, but the one thing I do know is that the reliever you know -- the guy on the mound -- is better than the reliever you don't know until he proves otherwise.

Of course, all of this depends on matchups and the number of times a guy has pitched recently, but if Ray was rested and unrestricted, the difference between 10 pitches and 20 is not terribly significant, especially when Johnson had pitched in two of three previous days.

This isn't meant as a big second-guess. The Rangers were down to their last strike with no one on base in the ninth. The Orioles should have won the game either way.

Associated Press photo

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 10:56 AM | | Comments (20)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

Pete,

The double clutch by Izturis cost us the game last night... in the 8th, allowing a run to score and eventually forcing Sherrill in early.

Johnson didn't give up three hits. It would have been 1, by my recollection, had Izturis picked up the ball and thrown it. There may be no actual mis-play on the ball, but that wasn't a hit. It was an error. Bad scoring.

All I can say is that as much as I like Sherrill, he doesn't get righties out.

They are hitting .412 with a 1.150 OPS so far this season. That would be a small sample size if they didn't hit .060 average points and .250 OPS points better than lefties off him last season. In double the at-bats, he gave up three times as many hits, extra-base hits, RBI, four times as many walks and two FEWER strikeouts. He's a great reliever in his role, he's just in the wrong role.

I was sitting up in left field last night, and in my alternating amusement and annoyance at the distractions of my fellow students I still managed to call basically the entire pattern of the bullpen. Even down to Walker not getting his guy out and the upcoming four-out save attempt. That's not a good thing.

The way the bullpen is being set up and used is a concern. We need to be putting these guys in the best position to succeed, both for their own benefit and for the overall success of the team. Should we really be confident right now that Trembley is doing that?

This season is about learning how to use many of these guys effectively so that in the near future they will help this team contend, so I don't have a problem with doing some experimenting. However, I wouldn't describe what happened last night in those terms, and two of the guys (Walker and Sherrill) we should already know what they do best and use them in those situations.

Pete,

I agree and also think Trembley was too quick with the hook as far as Koji.


...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I really don't. Koji had given up a home run and a shot to the wall. The guy coming up, if I remember correctly, took him deep in Texas.

Pete, dave trembley's biggest weakness is the way he handles the pitching staff.Even the most succesful managers have always said that handling the bullpen was the hardest thing that a manger has to do. Dave trembley is not very good at that. Ray was throwing the ball great and should have started the 8th inning. Let relievers pitch when they are good instead of all this slotting bullshit. No need to use 5 pitchers in a game when the starter goes 6 2/3 innings. It's a total shame how he handles the bullpen. I like dave but he talks out of bothe sides of his mouth .Every spring he preaches how good we will play defensively, yet we now lead the majors in unearned runs allowed. I still think Pete the sportswriters of this town give him way to much leeway without ever putting him to the task. I just don't understand that.

Looked like Mike Hargrove managing. Worked as well also.

It's funny how sometimes Trembley will sit there and watch someone get hammered and not even move on the bench and other times he's Captain Hook on steroids.You have to be an outside the box thinker sometimes.The real problem is these bullpen guys just aren't as good as billed no matter what order you bring them in.

Pete I just don't get it. Walker is a talented veteran, but he's limited to facing only one and in rare instances two batters per outing. I understand match-ups and all, but if you don't feel confident using your RP for more than one batter at a time, why waste a roster spot on the guy? If he can't pitch a whole inning, why is he in your bull pen? I just don't see why a guy would be worth having, if you're that cautious and apprehensive of his abilities.
I don't see Walker as a wasted spot, but I see his abilities being wasted when he isn't allowed to face more than one guy.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Lots of teams use a one-batter lefty.

Pete I just don't get it. Walker is a talented veteran, but he's limited to facing only one and in rare instances two batters per outing. I understand match-ups and all, but if you don't feel confident using your RP for more than one batter at a time, why waste a roster spot on the guy? If he can't pitch a whole inning, why is he in your bull pen? I just don't see why a guy would be worth having, if you're that cautious and apprehensive of his abilities.
I don't see Walker as a wasted spot, but I see his abilities being wasted when he isn't allowed to face more than one guy.

From last nights Tides game

Nolan is looking really zoned in both in the field and at the Plate. He made some good defensive plays on a sharp hit liner to LF and tracking down a deep foul ball for an out. He also made an excellent throw down the line to keep a run from scoring. At the plate hitting .400+ says a lot, he's really driving the ball at all times and like Oscar Salazar, you can't keep him off of the bases.

The back to back shots in the first by him and J. Cab (much nicer ring to it) to LF travelled about 350 and 360. Oscar crushed his HR, hitting into the middle of the picnic deck maybe around 375-380. The Park has some deep dimensions but they did move the RF fences in 20 feet so it will be interesting to see if balls start flying out of RF like they do in Yankee's Stadium...Justin Christian had a shot to CF that had triple written all over it to get the first started. It certainly seem that Durham is tentative to pitch to Wieters and he's shown a pretty patient eye at the plate.

Tillman was extremely impressive. He was locked in, He threw a ton of strikes and basically completely dominated Durham's hitters. Throwing 94+ consistently throughout the sixth and like Hernandez the night before didn't allow a hit until the fourth inning. The Tides played great defense behind him. Moore made some nice diving plays at 3B and Cristian can track anything down in CF.

Justin Turner is a player very much in the mold of Brian Roberts.

no question it would be good for trembley to be flexible with his bullpen blueprint. this whole this pitcher for that particular situation probably started by tony larussa to me is absurd. if your pitcher is throwing effectively like ray was and his pitch count is 10 there is no common sense reason to take him out of the game. no wonder teams have pitching problems. they're conditioning pitchers to throw 10 pitches and that's it. or just pitch to one batter. if a guy is getting hitters out let him pitch. the reality is with the lack of quality pitching teams should be conditioning their starters to pitch every 4th day, which by the way worked for decades, and have them have the mentality to pitch complete games, not go 5 and third and consider that an acceptable start.

I agree its good to have a certain pitcher for a certain role, but george sherill should not be on this team. He is not a closer and is way to shaky. 3/4 of the time he allows runners and gives up runs. Not a good pitcher. plus hes fat

Good afternoon Pete: Was there any indication last night of the orioles anger at being thrown at. I was also curious if Koji knew to retaliate.Is throwing at batters prevalent in the Japanese league.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Didn't really come up.

Pete,

You are DEAN ON TARGET! It isn't like any of our guys are actually lights out in every appearance. It is imperative that Dave rides the hot horse at the moment NOT some preordance role as this group has not yet established that kind of success!

Dave is learning too, it was a tough loss, lets just hope we don't do this again too many times!

It's all about having a feel for the game, something Trembley and, to be fair, most major league managers today either don't have or are afraid to display because the game has become so formulaic.

It's time to let Walker walk. He no longer gets batters out. This season they are batting well over .300.

Not a bad thought. Really just a plan, does not mean the plan will work all the time, the assumption is that three of five starters will pitch through six innings, not a bad plan, just never know how a game will play out. Injuries and back to back games where the starter does not make it to the sixth inning will change the best plan always.

What's Hendrickson still doing in the game? This guy really smells. Bye bye O's. A Red Sox fan is born. A great game going on between two REAL teams. 16-11 Red Sox in the 8th. By the time the O's get to the 8th it will be 16-0 with Hendrickson still pitching.

bms--Thanks for the Tides report. You are doing a real service.

If I remember correctly, this plan was already used by Trembley's predecessor Sam Perlozzo. Bradford and Walker were the 6th and 7th inning guys, Baez the 8th inning guy, and Ray the closer. He stuck to the plan and took the team down in the process. The best managers are flexible and ride the hot hand during various parts of a season. That way if 2 out of 5 guys are going through a bad stretch you can hide them until they turn around. The Trembley/Perlozzo/LaRussa rigid use of pitchers assumes that each and every night a pitcher is a known commodity giving you a pre-determined result. The better way to use your pitchers is get them regular every other or 3rd day work and stretch them out on days they seem particulary effective. Also, the idea that you warm up a guy so he is ready for his inning but don't use him and keep warming up the next guy to be ready for his inning is a recipe for overuse and arm injuries.

This era of specialization makes me sick. You take a guy that's rolling out of the game because of matchup reason or because of "roles." I wasn't around for the days when starters were expected to finish the game, but I wish I was. That's the way basbeall was mant to be played. You think Steve Carlton was on a pitch count? Oh and did I mention that they pitched every fourth day?????

Post a comment

Please enter the letter "o" in the field below:
About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

Schmuck column archive

Upload a photo of yourself or a friend wearing the new Peter Schmuck T-shirt, which is on sale at gotschmuck.com
-- ADVERTISEMENT --

Most Recent Comments
Photo galleries

Search our new database for every home run hit hit by the O's and the opposition — home and away — since 1992.

Buy Sports Tickets from the Baltimore Sun Store

Sign up for FREE Orioles alerts
Get free Sun alerts sent to your mobile phone.*
Get free Baltimore Sun mobile alerts
Sign up for Orioles text alerts

Returning user? Update preferences.
Sign up for more Sun text alerts
*Standard message and data rates apply. Click here for Frequently Asked Questions.
Blog updates
Recent updates to baltimoresun.com sports blogs
 Subscribe to this feed
Stay connected